Marketing for Reality Capturing with Rami Tamimi, Michal Gula, Dylan Gorman & Tomas Barnas

So hello everybody again. >> Oh I think it's working. >> What if >> you want to put it between you and Michael? >> Is it working? Can you hear us? Is it working? >> Yeah perfect. >> I believe so. Uh so uh my name is Thomas. I will be leading this uh panel discussion. Uh we are here representing uh besides the marketing in reality capturing also the collaboration of three dice conference and interjeo. So uh three dice is I would say in this case representing the future of reality capturing. So uh we are often telling about uh the the new technologies how to combine the technologies besides the uh standard known technologies and I would like to introduce uh these three uh panelists here. Uh I will give them a word to introduce themselves and then we will go to the topic of marketing in reality capturing. So please Michael, >> thank you. So uh I think that the inevitable part of of the reality capture and especially the future of reality capturing is also marketing part because uh we need to speak and teach people all about the new technologies. So uh guys will introduce themselves on my behalf. Uh I'm very active on on LinkedIn for last three years. I have 97,000 followers in the field of uh reality capturing in basically anything 3D and that helped me to grow not only my business but to also help multiple companies to grow their audience and their brand awareness. >> My name is Dylan Gorman. I am the founder of Pilot Bite. Uh we do a lot of UAS education around drones, data collection, implementation. So I typically work with a lot of engineering and surveying companies since this technology is constantly evolving. Not a lot of people know how to use it. So I've created a platform of about a 100,000 followers between YouTube and LinkedIn to really help educate and push forward the technology. >> So my name is Rammy Tamimi. I'm a professional surveyor and a PhD candidate uh studying geodetic engineering. Uh really my uh my journey started with just basic surveying out in the field and it's quickly evolved into trying to educate the next generation of surveyors. Uh through my YouTube channel which has about 80,000 subscribers now uh we've built the largest community of surveyors and we've tried to find ways to educate them outside of the normal traditional route. So we started the survey school online to provide education for those who are actually trying to implement surveying in a practical way whether it's for their business or for their personal growth and um I'm excited to be on this panel with all of you gentlemen. >> I would say we have here like three main topics. one is also in the name of the of our session that's marketing but it's about education as well and then you need some followers that you have audience to share your uh knowledge or ideas I would ask first question uh how do you see your audience and whether you can segment it because we had like different platforms where you are uh showing your stuff but also different approaching whether you are selling product selling service you want to share the knowledge so Do you see there any like segmentation in your audience where you to whom you are targeting? >> Yes. Uh I I think the the main difference among us will be that uh my approach is uh not to sell any product directly in terms of my audience is not my client. Uh my goal is to build anformational hub. So anything I put out on LinkedIn is about sharing the news, sharing new technologies. Uh I'm not trying to be a reviewer. So you will almost never see like like u suggestions like you should buy this or you should buy that. Uh my goal is to just be a proxy to just give you the information about new technology, about news, about anything that is happening in the 3D. Uh that being said my audience is not my clientele. These are if I should give them any name it it would be a product because my clientele is uh on the other side it's it's the companies it's it's uh all those companies you can see here all over the expo place which are struggling with uh delivering the information about their products uh because it's usually the last thing that they are considering like building their own brand ambassador uh pushing their presence on social media and so on. So that's what I'm helping them with. >> I would say on my end, my audience is really who I'm trying to sell to, but at the same time, I also help work with a lot of these companies that exist here, right? A lot of them have their own biases when they put out information. I try and cut through the bias and give it in my own interpretation, right? Because I worked on thousands of of projects, so I know how to implement the technology. What I help my viewers or the potential clientele on my end is to understand the technology, right? Everything is constantly progressing, constantly revolving. So, it can be kind of hard to keep up with all this technology that's constantly coming out. So, I focus on the drone side. Uh but it's not just the drones itself, it's also the software and the application, whether it's AEC, uh whether if you watched my presentation before for search and rescue. Um there's so many different implementations of the tech. So, I help translate all of the complex ideas that some of these companies have, whether it's a spec sheet, and actually put it into the real world as a full implementation. >> Yeah. I mean, for me, it it really just started as a place to make videos and content about surveying that I wish I had when I was in college. Uh, I was teaching, you know, my first year in my PhD, you know, introduction to surveying for kids at university and they struggled. there was COVID, there was nothing there online. And so I was like, you know what, I'm just going to make content for them. But then quickly that content expanded beyond just my own students to every surveying student that was trying to take a class uh and COVID was affecting them. And it wasn't just COVID, it was just the whole industry struggled with resources. So I found a need and I found a way to be able to fill that need which was through the medium of creating content on YouTube. So in today, you know, I I work with a lot of brands and a lot of companies to sponsor and showcase new technology. So a company comes out with a new total station or a new GNSS receiver, I am usually one of the first people to get my hands on it because I'm going to showcase it to an audience of people that are very interested in learning about that technology. And now with you know the growth of the channel and my involvement at conferences you know I get to meet a lot of folks in person and I'm providing them with the ability to study under me you know to show them exactly what they need to do to grow and to continue to become better surveyors. >> Yeah. Uh Ramy I would stay with you uh just following uh today what you said. Uh so the the content you are sharing it's practical. So it's the things which you touch and this is very important to also say and emphasize that you are a person or all of three of you are uh people which are from the field. So you actually have the experience and you are not just talking about it but you always try it and um I would just say like for those who don't know your your channel or your videos Ramy it's that you are getting all the devices as you mentioned you are testing them and then many times comparing also at three dice you had a great uh uh speech about comparing iPhone and the lighter scanner. So maybe you can also say a little bit about the the comparisons or or what you're trying to to teach people also. >> Yeah. So the what I'm famous for is taking the iPhone scanning with the LAR sensor and then comparing the accuracy of that LAR sensor to a high accuracy total station. So I mean it's an orange and apples comparison but in reality the data is the same and what I did at three dice was I talked about you know how if you do it the right way and you actually understand the survey applications you can actually achieve a decent amount of accuracy with just an iPhone. And you know this this was part of my research right and I was doing this research uh at Ohio State and I decided to make a video about it and that was the one video that you know really took off made a lot of people open up the way they think uh and it's like hey a surveyor is talking about using you know consumer level tools an a smartphone that's not designed for surveying but using it for that application and actually getting a decent amount of accuracy. So uh I always push the way these sensors are designed and I try to use them in ways that you know can evolve and improve the industry but I always make sure that accuracy is important. We compare it to our traditional equipment. Uh we follow the path of research to ensure that we have the best integrity for our data. >> Yeah. And Dylan if you would follow up with that uh what's your generally target? So I know like uh what what I know from uh what I've seen about you and heard about the trainings you are providing and uh what I specifically like is that you have an experience with multiple softwares. So you are not trying just to teach one which is my case mainly like I if I have experience very deep in uh in one target but I really like and appreciate that uh someone is taking care of multiple softwares and then trying to give the best out of all of them to people. Yeah, absolutely. And I think to kind of build on top of what you were talking about and what you just asked, um there is no one tool that fits all, right? So that's why I like to teach an agnostic approach to the technology, right? There's so many different tools that exist, but they're not always the right tool for the job. What I also do with these companies is take it off of, you know, the pretty. You're always going to have the perfect data set from whatever website you go to, whether it's a LAR sensor or a photographer camera or a drone. They're always going to give you the best of the best. They're never going to show you, you know, the real world to an extent. So, I always like to take theory and bring it into the real world and show people the actual workflow, not the end result. I show them from the beginning all the way through to the postproduct. And I think that's very valuable for people that one are just getting into the industry or two maybe it's a surveying firm, right? They're used to all of these other tools, but then they know that they need to adopt drone technology or UAV data collection. So I give them more of like a reality check of, hey, this is actually how it's done, not the oh this is all the pretty data sets that exist online. >> Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. Uh Michael, coming to you. uh Ramy and uh Dylan they are more educating or teaching people of the uh the industry use tools and uh and pipelines as well. Uh but you are more focused on marketing and you are trying to share with people how to become a brand ambassador or like how to become a brand themselves. How this is helping companies or why this is important from your point of view? Maybe I would go back to to why I chose this path instead of for example teaching people how to do laser scanning. Uh when I was about to start doing LinkedIn uh I always knew that I love exploring new softwares, new hardware to to be thinking about using uh a piece of software or hardware in a way that have never been thought before. Like that's why I'm I'm very interested in for example iPhone scanning because uh it's as you mentioned it's something that people it's not meant for scanning for for first reason and and the second is that you would never compare iPhone scanning to total station because it simply doesn't make sense but it's the effect of of a purple cow uh cow as it it's called in marketing. So it's something that you would never expect and that's what is actually interesting uh to people. That's that's why you're so successful with with that because it doesn't make sense for surveyors but it makes total sense for general public because they are interested like people are interested in in uh in iPhone scanning. So uh I knew that if I'm struggling with keeping up with all the new softwares and hardwares, there must be multiple people that uh are going through the same uh issue, right? And since I know most of the companies have like like they are too busy with their jobs, they are too busy with uh with uh just just getting the most value of what they actually have already. uh I knew that this might be my ve value added to them that I will uh keep them free from need of the study of every technology. I will just simplify it and dumb it down as as much as possible and just uh give them the new information in very easy to understand way and and just to simply simplify it as much as possible. So I'm not using high-tech uh terminology. I'm not trying to go very deep in the technology. I'm just trying to Hey audience, come here. This is new technology. This might be interesting for you. Just pay attention to it. >> Yeah, this is this is great. And how do you see um all three of you? Maybe we can open it as a discussion. uh the difference between promoting or showcasing the final result. So when Michael just mentioned it's like he's helping to people to uh show them hey this is the product but are you going to show the product itself or you want to show the process and learn people more. So what do you see as more powerful for all everybody who is here and if they have their own company is it better to market and promote the final thing which can come out of it or maybe some processes and knowledge sharing behind. >> Yeah I mean the process is in many ways more valuable than the actual product. um understanding how a GNSS receiver receives corrections, understanding the different methods, the benefits, the disadvantages. That to me is far more valuable than how many channels a certain receiver can receive. I mean, at the end of the day, all these receivers do the exact same thing. All these drones do the exact same things. All these total stations do the same thing. So, the brand really comes down to just how we as creators make money, right? We have brand exposure. We have an audience with a lot of people watching us. So these companies pay us to bring in brand exposure and that's just how we make a living. But the reality is you're not here to care or care about the brand. You care about how do I run a traverse? How do I run a resection? How do I set up an RTK base rover system? That's what you guys care about. And that's the value that we're trying to give to people that are trying to learn about at least surveying, you know, um because to me, that's the true value of understanding your profession. And as long as you understand how it works, when to use it, uh you're going to go buy whatever brand you want. Now, naturally, the sponsor of the video may get a little bit of, you know, leeway because they are, you know, the brand that I'm using, but that doesn't mean that other brands don't work. You know, we're not putting anybody down. They all work. They're all the same. um just you got to find the one that fits your specific need. >> I think it also comes down to information is power. I think for a very long time we've all just kind of condensed everything and just kept it to ourselves and you know I think a lot of us kind of fault that we don't want to empower our competitors but I think it's good to learn from that and that's the approach that I always take when I am broadcasting out information right everybody can anybody can pick up a drone and fly it and have it collect data but not everybody can properly go through the exact workflow to collect that data to then get your output. It's that saying, you've said it a lot, crap in, crap out. Different way of saying it, but um it's it's very true. And I I think by providing this value to the industry in terms of collecting the data the right way, but also demonstrating it with the companies that I work with, it makes people feel a little bit more comfortable when they start integrating that technology. Again, we're in a rapid evolvement of everything that's constantly coming out, and it feels like it's on a six-month uh schedule at this point before it used to be years. And so again, I kind of go back on the thesis of information is power. And I'd rather just provide as much information on the product that I'm working with, whether it's a software product, whether it's a hardware product, and give that out as a holistic approach as opposed to just segmenting out, you know, only the good pieces of it, because that's not a realistic approach, right? There's always going to be an issue whenever you have a new piece of technology. So, I'd rather show that and talk about it than, you know, just hide behind a wall of money and pretend it doesn't exist because that's not realistic. We all run into tech issues all the time. So >> uh my goal with my content is uh not to be speaking about technical details because uh you have this uh goian curve. It's it's normal distribution of of people and we also within our industry there is this majority of people who doesn't care about the the hard data because they don't understand it. There is very few people who actually understand when when you're speaking about the lighter about the the the accuracy and and you go deeper and deeper in in the in the terminology there's very few people that actually understand that. So my goal is to to communicate uh complicated stuff to to mass uh portion of of this this group. So for example when since we were talking about the iPhone I will give you an example uh if I would would be doing a content about uh what parameters are there are in a iPhone lighter like what uh what accuracy or what what density it has and so on like very few people would be listening. But instead of this, I took my iPhone, I scanned my whole house and the video got like 1 million uh impressions because people are very much interested it in what can be done instead like like how does it work like in in a high detail. Okay. >> Um I would say there that most of the people are as you also mentioned that the process is more the king and not the final result. Uh I think the problem also on the like social media or promoting and marketing is that uh people are overthinking too much. So do you see it more like rather deliver and put an output outside or like some uh some informations before like overthinking and really like killing the idea and thinking two weeks about it like how I will form it. It's like rather deliver uh more informations out or rather being like very uh correct with every sentence and do it like high quality but once a month. I >> I'll speak on this one. Um I'm very much the lather. I like to take my time and put together a piece of content because I'm delivering a lot of information but condensed in 15, 20, 30 minutes. But it also depends on the distribution channel that you're putting your content out. If it's on LinkedIn, I'm very fast-paced, right? The longest post that I'll put on LinkedIn, if it's a video, is a minute and a half. But that's because our attention spans are very rapid. And I think this has to come down to the Tik Tok and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts, right? So if you're creating content that has to do with very fa fast-paced, you have to forget about all the intricate details. You just got to put out, hey, this is what it can do and get that wow factor. Whereas if you're on a distribution channel like what I like to do on YouTube, there's I just make it very information packed. So, I want to make sure that every single detail I I cross my my my tees. I dot my eyes and make sure that it's providing value to the person that's watching it. But again, it comes back down to the distribution channel of where your content is going and who your audience is. >> Yeah, I'm going to echo what you're saying. Distribution channels are not all created equal. Um, not to hate on LinkedIn, but LinkedIn is very much a quick post. Within 24 to 48 hours, your post is not being shown because it's buried in the feed. Whereas on YouTube, we have this concept known as evergreen content. And evergreen content is videos that will live on forever. If you were to search, how do I make an apple pie? and someone made a video 10 years ago, you'll still watch it because making an Apple Pi doesn't change, right? And so, we have to be very strategic about how we make content. If I'm making content about this year's new iPhone, by the end of this year, that video doesn't get any more views. But when I make a video about how do I run a resection, re-section is a concept that will not change. So I have videos that I made back when I was, you know, my first year of teaching that still get hundreds of thousands of views because people genuinely want to understand this concept. Even if the video is from 3, four years ago, it's evergreen. It always exists. So quality for me is number one. Even if I'd only distribute a video every two to four weeks, I know that video is going to live on for a very long time. Uh, I'd rather take my time with making content, especially if I'm trying to build relationships with my students or with other um sponsors. Uh, that takes time, you know, so making rapid fire content that's not as valuable really hurts, you know, the quality of your work. >> No offense. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Take him because that's that's absolutely true. like uh YouTube and and LinkedIn in particular if we were discussing the these are very different platforms serving their own purpose and as you mentioned the the YouTube is evergreen content it's basically a Google with video right so uh every time you need some some u particular information you go to YouTube and you search it you would never go to LinkedIn and search for some exact information you LinkedIn is basically a Tik Tok for those who don't want to admit they are on Tik Tok. Okay. So, they build up also the the account on on LinkedIn just to feel more professional, right? But it has its attention. It has its uh it's its volume uh in terms of content in terms of audience. So uh I explained it to to all of these companies that uh are trying uh paid ads on Facebook, paid ads on Instagram, especially from our industry, it doesn't work because those professionals you want to speak to, they are on LinkedIn. Okay? So so u you don't want to be explaining deeply on LinkedIn uh what your uh things do uh how your solution works. No, you want to just grab attention and then direct people to either uh direct messages or to your YouTube channel or wherever you want. Okay. So, uh we are not in fight and none offense was taken because I know what's the purpose of of LinkedIn and what's my positioning on on on LinkedIn. >> Well, they're also both very effective channels. Absolutely. Right. There there is no wrong channel to to distribute your content on. Right. you have there's more I would say there's more qualitative leads that you come through LinkedIn because there's more professionals on there where for us on YouTube yeah we can have a video that has 400,000 views but realistically maybe less than 1% of those are qualitative people that are going to actually buy the product but that doesn't matter right because that's the channel that we chose to distribute our content on where your leads right it's a it's a different approach but there is no wrong way to go about it it's just getting that information out there I think that's the most important part >> yeah and it's also different way how you get the attention because uh with YouTube uh the the user is expected to go to YouTube and to be searching for something in particular to get to your content right instead with LinkedIn just imagine yourself guys you're doom scrolling on toilet right you're you're just swiping through the LinkedIn and and whatever is interesting you you just watch it right so this is yeah the comparison to Tik Tok is I think very very adequate >> very accurate yeah >> but you um already touched The topic I wanted to discuss is uh next and that's the distribution channels. So uh you are like uh Dylan and Ramy are focused more on on YouTube as Michael is more on LinkedIn but if you look across the platforms you mentioned already like YouTube um Instagram, Tik Tok, LinkedIn. Is there any benefit you would say like for your focus to be specifically on that platform or you need to use all of them to be successful on one? >> You know I we all have Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube, all three of us. And obviously we have strengths in certain channels uh just because we've focused on them. We started them first. And as much as it pains me to say this, they're all important, right? They all bring different types of leads. They all provide different types of values. Uh I I look at Instagram and Tik Tok as more of entertainment, you know, oh, look at how cool this shiny new sensor is. And once someone is interested in what I have to say over there, I think the next step in the funnel is the YouTube channel where there's more serious long- form content. Um, perhaps once they've watched enough of me on YouTube, they want to connect with me professionally. They find me on LinkedIn and so they connect with me on LinkedIn. Now I'm sharing, hey, I'm at Inter Geo. I'm attending these sessions. I'm speaking at these sessions. Now they connect with me in person. They spend time with me. And ultimately if that person wants to get even closer with me and wants to start to do business with me or they want to learn from me that's when I start to refer them to the survey school. So for me it is a funnel that starts with maybe just some entertainment goes into real you know value turns into a professional relationship and then ultimately becomes someone that wants to work with me and actually grow their skills. >> Yeah. Uh it's like with kids uh you have three kids, you love them all equally, but you have your favorite uh always. So it's the same with with these platforms. We all know that like in this idealistic world of Gary Vaynerchuk, if if you know him, he's the very well-known guy and he's saying that you should be posting like 50 times a day on all of the platforms. Yeah, this is the ideal world where you have like 50 people in your office doing only content for you. This would be great. We know it. We would love to have it. We don't have resource for it be because it comes with the budget. It comes with people and everything else. Uh so I yeah uh I would love to do also YouTube. I would love to do also Instagram heavily, but you simply at this stage, you simply don't have enough time and resources for that. I think on my end, I'm going to be a bit more biased. Um, Tik Tok X and was it Instagram? I think those are for me irrelevant because the pe people that are more serious about learning the technology, if you're going to have a more engaged user, they're going to be on YouTube, right? I bet you every single person here goes on YouTube before they go and buy something, right? I think we can all shake our head yes to that. Um, but if I want to learn a little bit more about a person and connect with them, I'm going to go to LinkedIn. So, I think there's more valuable transactions that can happen between both of those platforms compared to Tik Tok X and Instagram. Uh, in in addition to that, I think we've seen a massive shift when it comes to the marketing. It used to just be a company, a brand, right? Just a brand. You you you think of car brands, right? You think Toyota, Kia, Ford, right? Us Americans here. >> And now in the geospatial world, right, yes, you've got Trimble, you've got Leica, you've got all these other companies, but we're starting to see that shift, right? I think we're kind of numb to companies just pushing pushing pushing products on us. And you want to find someone who you can trust, especially if you're going to invest a ton of money into a product. So, I've seen a lot more value in building a more personable relationship with someone who you can trust or feel like you're in similar shoes. And I think that's been happening over the last few years, right? I think Gary Vaynerchuk is more of a very very tailored in on that. Obviously, it's for his own interest, for his own business, but for us here, right, we're helping connect people to the brands, but through our own biases, right? people like us for us for for our thoughts, for our feelings on on products. And I think that's what we excel at. So, kind of to bring us full circle back, I think um LinkedIn and YouTube are probably the best places to connect and and grow as like a market. I was asking about the online world but do you see it important if you are building such a powerful brand or channels as you have you three have that you are appearing or coming to conferences meeting with people or do you think would this work also like just in online world like a covid times when everybody was locked. Our position I think might be different to regular brand ambassadors because we are actually more more in the field of being influencers, right? When like I mean it in in the most like convenient way how how I can but we are already influencers working with big comp big uh companies and alongside the influencer thing we have also the educational thing. guys are are teaching about uh surveying about drones. Uh I'm helping uh people and companies to build their their LinkedIn presence. So we are doing also the educational part but being an influencers comes with yeah we went through this hole and we all get recognized by the people and and uh uh we we usually happens that somebody says hi and we have no idea who is it because we are putting out so much content that uh people on the other side already thinks they know us but we have no idea about the about the other side and I don't want to sound like a like a pop star or whatever. But it's it's it's very natural. Once you have like tens of thousands of followers, you can you are not able to to recognize everybody. But for a regular uh brand ambassador of of the company, this is also very important because it will happen to to them as well and it's actually serving their purposes. because it's totally different if you get approached by your potential client because they know you from LinkedIn compared to when you are doing cold calling and cold messaging and whatever is the traditional way of reaching out to people. >> Well, I think it's also built off of relationships, right? You're not going to go buy a product because you just think it's cool, especially going to spend a ton of money on it, right? You want to have a good relationship. And I think we've seen just building on what I was talking about before, the transition from companies pushing products to now brand ambassadors or individuals like myself and Ramy in creating that trust. And I think it also becomes more powerful whenever we're able to meet with the people that we connect with online. Granted, both of us, we have our own education platform and we teach in person as well. So there's a little bit more uh in it for you and I versus, you know, on your end. I don't know, maybe maybe it is different. Um, but I think creating that personable relationship helps drive more success in terms of sales, in terms of just being able to educate, uh, and really just help the industry on our part. >> For me, being approachable is very critical because I'm a human being. I'm a surveyor just like everyone else, and I'm not special, right? I haven't done anything that anybody else couldn't do. So to be humble and to you know even though I don't know the person in front of me and maybe they really you know appreciate what I've done for them and have built a lot of trust with me you know that's just the least that I can do for my industry right what I've done for my industry is you know it's something that's so necessary and so you know needed that I I feel like I shouldn't be praised for it. I'm just a normal guy like anyone else. So being approachable is critical and not just for viewers but also for companies. um these guys that are working on innovating, creating new software and hardware, they are spending a lot of time on the back end developing these tools to improve the industry. So we also need to show some appreciation for the hard work that they've put in. And while we are influencers and while we have a say in terms of you know how we want the direction of our industry to go, it's a big responsibility. Um at the end of the day, our viewers and our sponsors are what make it possible. So, you know, we we we appreciate everyone that watches us and learns from us and, you know, gives us feedback. Uh, but truly, it is just something that I think is a big responsibility for me that I have to continue doing because I think it's exactly what this industry needs so that we can continue to innovate and inspire the next generation of surveyors and drone pilots and, you know, 3D scanning technicians and professionals all over um in in the geospatial world. So, um, nothing special. I'm not that special. So yeah >> I think Dylan just mentioned that uh you are dividing let's say two groups of people here once like influencers and then the other side of uh more brand ambassadors like from my point of view you all are brand ambassadors for yourself but you are there to help the other brands to become better and uh how do you actually choose your clients or how how the collaboration starts starts because as you said like you are on the side of influencing and then there is coming another person who is becoming a brand ambassador and or maybe they need a brand ambassador. What would you like? >> Maybe since I use those two terms as a first maybe I I will try to explain the difference because um being a brand ambassador means that you are being the the face and voice of the brand. So this usually comes with the people that are actually employed with the within the company. Uh they have their logo in their um social media or whatever. Uh you can usually meet them uh in the booth on the expos. So these are people that are that easily can be as active as we are on on social media but are tightly connected to the to one company and it can be a persona of of the co-founder or CEO or just the person that is dedicated to building a brand awareness. Okay. So these are brand ambassadors. It can be also uh person that is uh outside of the company but the connection is very straightforward and you can see it everywhere this yeah this is our face like he's doing also other brand collaborations but this is our brand on the other side influencer is somebody that is very rarely being uh exclusive with with some brand so uh I I guess it goes with you guys as well like I can be doing uh collaboration uh I don't know with with u XG grids the one day and the second day or second week I can be doing collaboration with uh CHCNF because my goal is not to be selling just one brand my goal is to be giving out the information about interesting technologies I would say technically yes we are brand ambassadors for our own companies but it's not even something that I really put out there We're we're kind of the um the cheerleaders of of these companies. But when it comes to how do you actually get started, you have to build some integrity or you have to have integrity, but you also have to have just a a good track record of putting out good content, which is why I was talking about, you know, information is very valuable and I like to provide as much in information as possible, right? It helps create that credibility with the company so that they understand, okay, he knows what he's talking about. If I'm talking about a drone and specific specifications on it, on its capabilities, its payloads, all these different things, and I'm constantly putting that out, there's a lot more credibility there. There's a lot more trust that's built. So, before a company can even approach you or you approach them, you have to have something to show for yourself. And it's pretty brutal the first six months to a year. Now, this is not something I thought that I was ever going to do because it just kind of took off by itself, but it was more because I was providing very valuable information to the industry first. And then the influencer side came naturally. And so now when it comes to connecting with brands, it's either I'm reaching out to them or they're reaching out to me. There's a handful of brands that I've been walking around here saying, "Oh my god, we want to work with you." And there's some others that I'm going up to them saying, "Hey, I want to work with you." So it kind of goes hand in hand together. Now granted, I've been doing this for four years, so it's a little bit different. I I sorry I I would just add to that that like there is one of the biggest biases in in our position like thinking that everybody knows you. Nobody knows you. Even with with our followings it's like daily business. We reach out to some company and they're like okay who are you and you would expect them to know but they don't. So yeah >> it goes back to what I was saying. We're not anything special you know. Um, sure we have followings and we have people that watch us and maybe trust what we have to say. That doesn't mean every brand wants to work with us. And for me, like as long as the brand is providing value to the survey industry, I'm willing to work with them. Right? If you're a brand that doesn't really fit the the mold, there's no sense in me sitting here talking about your company. If it's someone that is providing photoggramometry solution or or you're a LAR sensor, I want surveyors to, you know, open up their minds and to look at these new technologies as a way to innovate. So, yes, I will talk about your brand on my channel. Um, I don't like the term brand ambassador because it does sound more like I'm focused on a brand. I really am not. I work with whoever wants to work with me. Uh, or if I find an interest in a company, I may approach and be like, "Hey, are you interested in working with me?" Sometimes they say yes. Sometimes they say no. you know, it's it's a business at the end of the day. So, for them, it has to make sense uh to go down this route. Uh but truly, I mean, this goes back to what I said earlier. I don't really care what the brand is that I'm using. The video needs to follow what is the workflow, what is the question that is being answered. You know, I want to provide you a solution for a problem that no matter what brand you used it, this is the solution for, right? Uh and so again what we use brands for is one to get access to equipment, second to get paid because this is what we do for a living. Uh and so that we can continue to make free content online for our viewers and third we have the ability to give exposure and these brands are looking for exposure. So we give that to them in exchange we able to create the content that is valuable to the industry. Uh I I would maybe add add one thing because uh now it looks like because we we have been speaking about this for several minutes. Uh we are far from every content being paid. Okay. So so >> that's true. Yeah. >> Don't don't >> as long as much as we are speaking about the collaborations with companies, it's like maybe only 20% of of our content that that is actually being paid because it comes with the reputation that Dylan was speaking about. You need to build a reputation and you won't build your reputation only on on paid uh collaborations because like Ramy said like anybody can come to us and and say hey would you do paid post with us or paid video? Yes, I would as long as as the as the uh reputation factor or risk is not high. I mean like the the company is known, right? is not somebody totally new potentially scamming company. As long as as the company is is relevant, we are ready to do the collaboration. But to build up the reputation, it's 80% of just hard work sitting on your ass and doing content just to please the audience. And if I mean please, I mean to put out something that is interesting for them and for what they are actually following you. >> That's what I did when I first started. I mean, I was making videos for my students at Ohio State University. I had no sponsorship. I had no following. I didn't even know what I was doing. All I knew was this is how you do the survey process for my students. So, we all spent that first six to 18 months just making content for the sake of providing value, not getting paid, not really setting any kind of goal to be famous. It was just I want to make this content. I want to put it out there and hopefully someone benefits from it. That was the intention. My first year I only made 250 bucks. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> So it didn't it didn't even pay for anything. It was it was more putting it in there. Exactly. It's the hard work that you have to constantly put in and constantly show up and constantly show people, hey, I am a credible source. I do know what I'm talking about. >> Now granted, right, people like to use the word influencer as a bad word, right? I personally don't like influencer. I feel more of an educator is more of how I position myself, right? I'm educating people on the technology, whether it's a workflow, whether it's a piece of hardware, but I've spent the time, I spent the years developing that alongside with my decade of just being in the industry. So, I take that expertise, bring it with my, I guess, personality, which is why people like watching my content, and then help provide that as a valuable asset, right, for these companies that are trying to get their products into the world. So yes, we're going to get paid for certain things, but that doesn't always mean that our opinions are paid and and bought for for everything that we put out. It's just a a side effect of it. I guess >> that's actually what I was asking Ramy on the beginning whether he is posting videos about the stuff or like all of you which you have and you have tested and this is like important uh add-on to it because you also said on the beginning that yes most of the things you have yourself, you have to test and you know what the products are doing. So like from my perspective, I really appreciate that that uh like the things which you are sharing uh all of you are uh are tested and are with hands-on. So it's not just the information you read from their website. So this is great. And speaking about this like would you say that every company uh should build their own or like should have their own uh brand ambassadors or is it enough if they are using uh people which are in the field like you? There's nothing wrong with a company having a brand ambassador. I think it's important that every company has some presence online. Um the challenge that most companies face is okay, obviously you're going to talk good about your product. I mean, why would you talk bad about your product, right? Doesn't make sense. So, at some point, even if you have lots and lots of followers, you're going to need a third party to come in and validate that your product is actually worthwhile, you know, and that's when they start looking at people like us and many others on LinkedIn that, you know, have a following and say, "Hey, try out our product. Let us know. Be honest. Rip us rip us apart. Give us good feedback." So at a starting point, every startup should have a presence on social media because without any presence, I mean, nobody's going to know you or recognize your brand and even we will be like a little hesitant to want to work with you because we don't know what you do. But once you've got that and we support you in some way, not just us three or four on the stage, you know, like there's many others online, um, that's when you really start to build trust with your future customers. >> I think it's also being transparent, right? There's a lot of companies, like I said, that like to hide all the cards against their chest. The more transparent you are, the more you put out there, the more people are going to trust it and in turn could potentially lead to a sale, which again, to your point, I think having a third party somewhat unbiased, right? We will have our biases. There are things that we specifically like, and we're going to talk about the things that we like. There's going to be things that we don't like, but guess what? We're not using every single tool to the fullest capacity. Right? If you're focused on civil survey, you're only going to be doing civil survey. If I'm working with construction companies, I'm only going to be talking about the construction application of a tool. Again, whether it's a software or a piece of hardware. So, I think being more transparent is what's going to help companies win in the long term, but also it helps expose them to areas that they may have their blind sides on. Right? Every company thinks their product is the greatest thing on earth, but that's not the reality of it. And I think we just need to be transparent. And I say we companies, but that's what we also do as well. And actually, my favorite videos doing are the comparisons of taking this bigname brand and this bigname brand and seeing how they do in a head-to-head comparison. Not talking about all the best parts of it, but talking about the differences in the technology. And I think that's not just where the end uh consumer is going to learn but also these companies because they're also watching our stuff too. So >> yeah, but we are speaking about you as a brand ambassadors and then we had also a discussion. >> We also have opinion questions for you. So I wanted to get to that. I I I wanted to add to to guys because that's very true and uh for me it's also about uh policies because I strongly believe that every brand should have their own brand ambassador their their leader like every music group band have their frontman every company should have their frontman that is on social media that that is present there because it's a organic and free marketing for for the company so I strongly believe in this. But when I mentioned policies uh especially with big corporates that you can see uh here, they cannot talk about whatever they want. Uh the CEO cannot be speaking freely. So they always need to to uh follow the rules of the company, the the brand identity, the the language, the tone of voice, everything around that. I don't like I don't care. I I can say on the stage. They cannot and and that's that's something that is giving the the authenticity and the the the natural feel to the audience which brand official brand ambassadors of the company cannot do. Okay. So even though I strongly believe every company should have their own brand ambassador, I think they also should be working with with external uh influencers and ambassadors because it gives them the opportunity to uh to be also in uh in channels and situations where they are not able to be naturally because they cannot afford it to be there but they want to be there. and we can take them there. >> You mentioned CEOs. So would you say that uh founder or CEO on the end shouldn't be the face of the company for like internal brand ambassador? I know you are speaking about like external ones but if you are internal should that be a person who is who founded that company or is it better some uh technicians or marketing person later on when the company grows not like one man show? I think it comes down to personality to be honest, right? You can't you can't build an online relationship if you have no personality. People want to feel like they can actually connect with you, not just listen to a talking head who can read off of the script. And I think that's why all three of us have done very well. We're very personable people. People can relate to us. You can't just throw a boring CEO, no offense, there are a bunch of boring CEOs, and just have them read off of a >> PR of them. >> Yeah. So that I don't know that's how I feel about that. >> Yeah. But you've got CEOs like Steve Jobs who will always be remembered as one of the greatest CEOs to ever live. He took Apple from some he made Apple was kicked out and when he came back he made it better. So like you said it is about personality and hey not everyone's born with a flamboyant personality and that's okay. You need to recognize that as the CEO that hey, you know what, I'm a really technical CEO. I'm really, you know, involved in the coding of my software, but I have a marketing, you know, head that would be perfect for this role. Other CEOs have no technical skills whatsoever. They're just very good leaders and they could be the face of their company, uh, internally or externally. So the way I look at it is as long as the person that is the face of the company is engaging and provides us excitement and shows us that you know what, I'm really excited about this product, you guys are going to love it. It's going to change your lives. It's changed my life. You're more likely to sell. But when you've got a boring CEO that's very technical and talks about how the Python code they use integrates with this JavaScript, no one's going to buy that product. >> There are basically two strategies. uh I call it when when I'm speaking to my students I I call it like the uh Elon Musk strategy and Spice Girl strategy. So with with Elon Musk you have this one leader, one frontman. Tesla has never paid a dollar for for a marketing because he's a strong frontman. It comes with also haters like there is many people that actually hate Tesla and and uh just because of the persona that is in front of them uh because of Elon Musk. But then there is this other strategy called Spice Girl strategy where you have actually five different personas, five different girls. uh each of them communicating in their own tone of voice uh dressing differently uh looking differently uh appealing to different audience to different men and women. So so this is also an alternative uh to a strategy within companies where you can have actually like four five brand ambassadors within the company each of them communicating in their own way in their own tone of voice representing the same brand. Uh yeah, great. Thank you for that. And uh I had another uh point actually because we discussed that um you all are brand ambassadors, influencers and that Ramy and Dylan are teaching the technology but um I wanted to touch a little bit your teaching part which you also mentioned now that you are not only brand ambassador or brand yourself but you are also teaching people how to become that person like how to build the successful LinkedIn profiles, how to become uh more successful. Can you tell us something about this? >> Yeah, it came quite naturally because uh my journey on LinkedIn is is actually my my proof of concept, my my proof of work, right? So, uh I don't have to explain to my students that I know what I'm talking about because I went through their journey that is in front of them. So uh like if I compare to myself to other like LinkedIn teachers and and all these uh mentors and whatever most of them are theorists. So like uh one year ago they were teaching like soft skills of uh business doing or negotiation. Uh this year LinkedIn is overhyped so they jump on a LinkedIn. they're teaching LinkedIn because very it's very easy to learn basics in in two weeks course and just start selling courses but it's totally different to be hearing things and and consulting things with the person that actually went through that path and that's the main reason why I'm not trying to sell my education on LinkedIn to people that are totally outside of our industry because this is this is what I live every day what I've built in last three years from basically zero followers to almost 100,000. Right? So, I know what I'm speaking about and I went through that path. So, I'm able to walk with you. Maybe the last uh question for all of you or uh let's see uh would be is there anything you would say uh to people which want to start with uh either like pushing their brand to become more visible or approaching people as you what they should be aware of or what they should know before they come to you to to ask the right thing. >> I think be open to criticism. Uh, I think that's very important to be open to criticism, but don't take everything that you say online >> as factual, right? I think we all need to do our own due diligence and understanding what exists out there. Um, and I'm going to cheat here. I'm going to add a second part. Just just post. I'm a perfectionist, so it is hard for me to post a lot. That's why I just stick on to YouTube because I know that I can get a perfect post. Where on LinkedIn, again, it's a very fast-paced thing. Most people aren't really going to pay attention if you spell a word wrong. As long as you get the information out there, just do it. I think you start getting that repetition. You're going to get more comfortable with it. >> Yeah. I mean, for me, um, I had every reason not to start. I'm still in college. Oh, I just got my first job. No, well, I I I just started my master's degree. No, I mean, I just started teaching. I'm always just starting to do something, right? Oh, I still don't have my license. Like, there's always a reason not to start. And I think that that is every reason to start. I didn't have my survey license. I didn't have my PhD. I still don't have my PhD. I'm still working on it. Um, and I and I just felt like, you know what, I want to start. I I'm not going to wait until I finish all these things. Who knows how long they take. Maybe it'll take me longer if I start now, but this is something I really want to do. there's something I genuinely think will benefit others. And so if you're in that boat, whether it's starting a company or starting work on social media or or just starting a new job, you know, it could be something very simple. Just do it before you're ready. Start before you're ready. You will adjust. You will adapt. You will get yourself where you need to be once it's real. Um, so long as you're just talking about it, it's a thought, it's an idea, it's fairy dust, it's not real, and um, you're in full control. >> Excuses are like buttholes, like everybody has one. So, as as long as you want to find excuse, you will find it. So, uh, the more you don't need your social media presence right now, the more you need to start right now. Especially if you're right now comfortable with your uh, salary, with your company, this will change. Unfortunately, we are living in a times when it will change sooner than than later. Uh, don't expect to be working for the same company for next 10, 15, 20 years. It will change. It can change from day to day. So what you can do for yourself right now is build your personal brand. So when the time comes you will be able to get new job like this. >> Thank you very much for that. If you will have any question to our guests like feel free to reach them after the session. I think we we will not hear you. So maybe we just or try >> to ask question. >> Yeah. Can I >> Yeah, sure. >> Sure. Can I get the mic? I'll just pass it on but we won't hear it. Yeah. Can you come closer? Uh, and >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because they need to hear you and at the same time speak into the mic so the rest can hear you. >> So my question is was was uh what was the turning point when you go from being on the field and being an influencer and uh and brand uh >> ambassador ambassador. >> Thanks for your question. Thanks. >> Um there is no turning point. I still go out into the field. I still do surveys in the field. Maybe not at the same capacity that I did back in the day, but I'm still out there doing work. Um, still working with clients, still dealing with contractors, and you know, and the reality is that it just becomes another part of your life. And while some people may stop completely working and just focus on social media, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that, I'm a believer that I should continue to be in the field facing all these problems because it's just a more authentic version of me. When I go to speak to others that are in the field, I can relate to them and say, you know what, I also had that issue. Yeah, I know the the corrections network was down last week. Yeah, I couldn't get a fixed reading. I had to set up my base. These small connections that you make with your audience shows them that you're in it with them. You know, you're not just sitting on the sidelines pretending like you know what they're talking about. No, you have field experience. And I think I speak for all of you because you're still scanning and you're still flying drones. You know, we we are still out there doing the same work. It's just we also have social media on the side. >> I'm pretty much just going to echo what Ramy said. I literally a few hours ago, I just won a new bid that I have to go now book flights for and go on the other side of the world to go do a project. So, I'm still very much in it and and still working, but it also helps keep my credibility because I could sit here and theorize all day long. We all could, but then that's going to take our credibility away from us. And that's why people trust us, that's why brands come to us, that's why companies provide us products. So that not only can we leverage it in our day-to-day behind the camera because realistically anything that goes online for me is 1% of what I actually do behind the scenes. And I think that's very similar to all of us um up here. We everything online looks amazing but behind the scenes it kind of sucks. >> No credibility is the perfect word for for this because uh yeah we have this following but if we went out and trying to sell lipsticks for example nobody would care for it right but the the the fact that we are every day in the field or every other day it doesn't matter uh it gives us that cred credibility that once we say something it actually has a meaning >> there's weight to it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Any other questions? No. Then thank you to our guests and uh Rammy Tamimi, uh Dylan Gorman, and Michael Koula. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. Again.