Mark Normand Reacts To Dove’s Campaign For Body Positivity In Video Games

Duration: 10:49 2157 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

Mark Normand reacts to Dove's recent campaign for body positivity in video games, which aims to challenge female representation and create a more positive space for women within gaming culture. The commercial features a superhero girl who defeats an evil villain but then removes her armor only to reveal she has gained 80 pounds before sitting down with hands behind her back, realizing the armor was holding her in; however, upon resuming combat, she is depicted as significantly larger and heavier. Normand critiques this narrative by noting that while female characters often fail to represent diverse gamers due to heavy sexualization and narrow beauty standards—evidenced by a statistic that 74% of girls feel unrepresented—he finds the specific execution here problematic because it feels forced rather than genuine. He expresses skepticism about whether video games are actually where young women seek representation, comparing the situation to advertising on Vanderpump Rules or selling "sunset" products with larger models who may not even be present in their own campaigns. A central theme of Normand's commentary is the concept of marketing becoming hacky and unoriginal as brands attempt to signal virtue through performative empathy rather than substantive change. He draws parallels between Dove's initiative, Bud Light's support for transgender rights, and Nike's endorsement of Colin Kaepernick, arguing that these efforts often suffer from "woke washing," a term he defines as allowing brands to monetize virtue signaling while concealing less altruistic business practices like poor labor conditions or unsanitary production processes. Normand suggests that when everyone is moving in the same direction ("zagging"), true originality and creativity are lost, making these campaigns feel contrived rather than authentic expressions of social progress. He emphasizes that simply adding a larger avatar to a game does not address deeper societal issues regarding self-image or representation if the underlying motivation appears driven by supply-and-demand pressures for racism or performative activism rather than genuine sympathy. The discussion extends to human nature and the psychological impact of visual representations, noting that people generally prefer attractive figures in media, citing historical trends where taller candidates with full heads of hair tend to win elections. Normand shares a personal anecdote about preferring jacked superheroes over fat ones and references fan reactions desiring "skinny-fat" versions of characters like Kratos or Solid Snake rather than realistic depictions of health struggles like diabetes. He argues that if individuals feel the need for direct representation in their avatars to validate their identity, it suggests a narcissistic tendency where superficial changes cannot fix deeper problems. This preference for idealized images over realism highlights how human attraction and societal standards continue to prioritize specific physical traits regardless of whether those representations are meant to be empowering or realistic. Normand also addresses the hypocrisy inherent in modern discourse, using examples like Michael J. Fox's past controversies versus his current fame, where people judge individuals based on a single headline while ignoring their broader contributions. He contrasts this with historical contexts where actions were constantly scrutinized against claims of goodness, whereas today social media allows for performative empathy without real-world accountability; one can claim to be an ally online while behaving poorly in private without immediate consequence. This disconnect leads to intense scrutiny when someone attempts genuine altruism or vulnerability, as skeptics apply the same rigorous standards used to expose bad actors to those trying to do good. Consequently, many people retreat from activism entirely for fear of being "rumbled" and criticized, disincentivizing authentic engagement with social movements despite their sincere intentions. Ultimately, Normand concludes that while conversations about misrepresentation in video games are important, they often get captured by performative gestures rather than meaningful solutions to the root causes of insecurity or lack of diversity. He questions whether brands like Dove truly care about fighting for different beauty standards when their campaigns contain no actual product and rely entirely on gaming imagery to sell a message that feels shoehorned into existing narratives. The episode ends with an observation that in today's environment, genuine empathy is often met with immediate skepticism due to the prevalence of concept creep and supply-demand dynamics, leaving many hesitant to participate unless they are certain their actions will not be twisted or used against them by critics looking for flaws rather than understanding context.

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I sent you earlier on a video about Dove yeah that was great so for the people that haven't seen it Dove is on a mission to challenge and change female representation in video games and help make gaming a positive space for women and girls so they've created this video of a like superhero girl superhero and they she slays this this evil baddy and then she gets back into the changing room and takes her armor off and gains 80 yeah that was odd immediately and then like sits down puts her hands behind her back and realizes I don't need to wear the armor that is holding me in and then she goes out and like keeps on fighting but now she's 80b bigger yeah um female characters in games do not accurately represent the diverse Gamers of the world and are often heavily sexualized and created within narrow unrealistic beauty standards 74% of girls feel unrepresented in video games um I'm looking forward to the Call of Duty lizo skin dropping I want to unlock I want to unlock lizo too big of a Target terrorist it's too easy but here's my thing with a couple things I love the idea of the animator being like the director's like we need her fatter so he's like oh [ __ ] all right so he has to make her bigger but also I get it look it's all I'm all about helping women and having them being represented but aren't we going it's it's getting hacky now like Miller Light Bud Light all the uh Starbucks at a big commercial with the Trans and you're like well now it's just hacked the whole thing with the marketing and and uh stuff like this like this kind of art you got to go a new way isn't that the whole point of uh being original like when they Zig you zag and they're all zagging everybody's going in the same direction yeah so I'm like to me it's not even about the the woke [ __ ] or whatever you want to call it it's like you're just being unoriginal now it's boring it's boring well I think the main concern that people it's kind of the same as the like Supply demand problem for racism which is it doesn't seem genuine yes it's forced yeah completely forced completely what do you call that uh starts with a C contrived thank you you nailed it [ __ ] yeah tapped in we're tapped in together periods are sync that's menstrual cycle exactly menstrual um cycle menstrually cycle um so yeah I I think it's just that people don't believe that this is is this actually coming from a place of genuine sympathy or is this coming from what's it called woke washing yes mad Avenue yeah I learned uh what was the [ __ ] thing woke washing is allowing Brands to monetize virtue signaling it conceals the less altruistic business practices so Miller Light and Bud Light you know there two good examples that you brought up there they'll where are they getting their tin from is anybody looking at the aluminium that goes into the cans is anybody like looking at the production processes are they meeting sanitation standards are they doing all the rest of it and it's like no but they gave Dylan mlan six a six-pack with her face on it that's like enough to look over there look over there you don't need to look over here thing and I think with the dove thing Dove maybe actually does feel a little bit like um a company that for a long time has been fighting for different beauty standards they've done stuff with skin that's true like trying to get representation for different girls but if you're going to fight the good fight it doesn't feel like video games are the place that girls are looking to find their representation exactly and they there was no soap in that commercial there was not one bar of soap not a lather not a lotion nothing yeah exactly it was just video gaming and I'm like I don't know it's also weird that we have to shoehorn women sure there are women Gamers I'm sure but like it doesn't feel like that's their their big uh demo is these these fat ladies like like advertise on uh Vander pump rules like every lady I know my wife included has like six girls over they're all watching it I walk in they're like sh you know selling sunset the bigger girl on selling Sunset exactly exactly but she's not there which is also probably why it's doing well you know it goes back to the Barbie it's like Barbie's unrealistic and I'm like yeah yeah but who wants a realistic toy you know but women think they're going to think they have to look like that I'm like maybe they want to look like that or maybe you know uh that's that's okay if you want to like I every superhero I had was jacked I don't want a fat superhero I'm not jacked someone so I put this out on Twitter earlier on and someone replied and said um they can't wait for a version of katos you know from God of War are you familiar with that guy like just like a jacked God God figure type guy can't wait for skinny fat kattos or um Solid Snake uh to be creeping around but he's lost a foot G to diabetes like I don't know just there seems to me if you need if you're so narcissistic that you need direct representation in your avatar in a computer game there are bigger problem than Simply Having a full of figured Avatar are going to be able to fix yes completely and it's just human nature we like to look at attractive things I mean every president who won has been taller every I think maybe except for one but it's always a taller guy who wins full head of hair helps yeah yeah I mean it's it's in men too like we we want our men looking the right way as well what was that was it Nixon did he do some famous uh debate and he was one of them was sweaty and the one wasn't sweaty he did one on radio and one against Kennedy cuz you couldn't see how good-looking Kennedy was and then when they TV aired it Kennedy won that pretty privileged man yeah I don't know I I think it's just it's such a shame that you have conversations that get captured by like they're are much longer levers than trying to fix yes whether or not girls are being misrepresented in video games exactly and uh let's talk to the ladies see what they think also it just first of all It Feels So forced but oh I forgot my point you said something say say what you said again maybe it'll jog it that it oh I got it back thank you that's all I needed was your sweet sweet uh English voice so oh I lost it again say it again start talking oh I got it I got it I got it so that was real but uh you mentioned the the tin can where's that coming from and then like here's a perfect example Kaepernick everybody's blowing Kaepernick he's kneeling he hates police I get it Nike the biggest example of all sweat shops you know we need the Asian fingers to make the shoes and all that and you can Overlook that because you're looking at the guy with the afro who's got the fist up and you go hey I'm a good person but when you say to people well what about the Sweatshop people they go ah and you're like no no no you you're not allowed to go at me with the sweat shop and like Kaepernick you have to if you're such a morally good person and Superior you have to agree to both but they just they just shut one out and that's where I get pissed well hypocrisy is just like the perfect uh tool that people want to point out on the internet right because For the First Time Ever we have this um locked in stone history of every single thing that we've said precisely as we said it at the times that we said it and it allows you to say hang on you you making this point now but I can see that that's not exactly aligned with what you used to say previously right so one of my smart Friends the one that taught me about concept creep he also taught me that in the modern world our opinions and our Deeds have never been further apart in the past any opinion and any deed would have ended up being stress tested at some point if you say that you're a good person in 20,000 years ago around the campfire and yet every time you go out hunting you don't bring back meat for everybody else you just bring it for your family eventually someone's going to go well come on you keep you keep saying that you're a good person right whereas on Twitter no one ever actually ends up scrutinizing the way that you show up in the real world you can be the most empathetic Pro female person in the world and you go home and beat your wife yes and nobody knows well for the most part nobody knows and then when people get rumbled for it that's why it feels so satisfying to us yes I think that it's because we have this sense that a lot of the people who push virtual real virtual beauty or push digital black face is something that should genuinely be cared about are just doing performative empathy I don't think that we believe that it's true completely right but the problem with the the empathy is like when you're on the other side of it like let's say you're Ellen who you know big and the her thing is like what you said because she was the happy Dancy nice lady and then when we found out she was a a cous everybody flipped on her because she was performing uh but the problem is Ellen could be like well I donate a million a charity I do all this I help the homeless I help old people but we just know about the thing yes so you don't get that redeeming part and we love Sam Harris had a great point he said if you if the first time you hear about somebody is when they've done something wrong maybe don't jump to hate them that's the first thing you've heard about them what about all the other good [ __ ] they did but we don't care about that we just go oh Michael J fox said [ __ ] in 88 I've never heard of this guy like if you're some young person I've never heard of Michael J fox I hate him now and you're like you hate him now because you heard one thing about him on the in a headline but just you totally disregard his whole other life it's crazy it's a shame that we sort of jump to conclusion so quickly and this difference between opinions and deeds the fact that you're able to behave in one way and say a different thing and people will care about what you say more than what you do cuz what you do is never seen exactly but it also means that when you do try and actually put some empathy across that gets scrutinized too oh well maybe you're just doing this no I genuinely care I care about this movement or I care about this group of people or This Is Me Being Earnest or or vulnerable or open and not for some perverse reason I'm doing this because I actually care about a thing and immediately people use the same uh idea the methodology the skepticism they have about all the other [ __ ] from all of the other people that have been doing the concept creep Supply demand [ __ ] and then they apply it to you and you go like I and I think that disincentivizes people from do genuine completely altruism as well I agree yeah it's it's a it's a tough time makes people just not want to do anything and just hang back so they don't get yelled at what's happening people if you enjoyed that then press here for the full 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