Marewa Glover On The Good Oil Podcast

[music] Hey now, welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good catch today with leading us all the way. >> Welcome to the good oil podcast. Before we get started, we've got to do our obligatory cigar review. What's in the humidor this week? We have a CLE Aora Classic Natural Toro. This is a 6-in cigar with a 54 ring gauge. It's of medium strength, but it's got a bit of a kicker in it. It's got some Cuban Seed Caro uh tobacco in it, and that will give you a little bit of a punch. So, make sure you've got a Coke handy when you're smoking this. Uh, if you want to learn more about quality cigars, New World cigars in particular, then contact canteros.nz. Ask for Grant and tell him that you know me and uh he'll set you up a Hemingway or a Passionado subscription and every month you'll get four or five cigars cured by Grant, sent to you by Courier. Welcome to episode 35 of the Good Oil Podcast. With me is Professor Mari Wlover. Welcome. >> Hi. Great to see you. And you're looking really healthy. >> Oh, I feel really healthy, too. Yeah, it's the love of a good woman, I think. [laughter] >> Now, um, you sent me a copy of a submission that you've put in uh about the India New Zealand free trade agreement >> and I called you back pretty much straight away and said, "Let's let's talk about this on the podcast." So, tell us about your submission because I was intrigued by it. >> Well, thank you. It's uh you know I'm like many many people getting really really concerned about what's happening to New Zealand the direction everything's going in and that India FDA um just has a lot of really really concerning things that I see as a threat to New Zealand. So the other thing that has been annoying me for some time is if you say anything, anybody who speaks up and has an opinion that is against anything the left say or you know Labour say or Green say or Maldi say >> nationals on the left too. [laughter] [gasps] >> Well, they're not at the moment saying you're racist. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> but it's it's lame though, isn't it? being having whatever you're saying labeled as racist because they don't agree with the narrative that you're presenting, but those are your opinions. You're entitled to those, but they try to shut it down by saying racist. >> It's just a smear. So, and there's a lot of this, you know, stopping free speech and and basically abusing people until they too scared to speak up. Well, we have to speak up. And so I wanted to explain to the select committee um because I do feel that the word racism and the meaning of the term like man or woman has been changed. It's being changed. And so if you look at the original meaning of the word racism, it means that a person believes they believe that this other person is biologically inferior. So I can give you an example from my own life of my own father uh who found religion and one day he was sitting we were sitting on the step at my place and he said that mai are opposite to God that and god is spelled go mai are dogs basically is what he was saying. So you're not in some person's mind a person who is racist sees another person of another race. So this is a biological you know we car group of characteristics that over human history we've come to call race. Oh no they're not they're not humans like >> we're a human you know and of course it's happened in in Australia where they >> it's happened forever. Yeah, >> you know, I mean the the you know the pograms in Europe. Um we had of course um uh the >> uh there you go. See, I've gone completely blank, but that's all right. We can cut that out. [laughter] >> Hitler. >> Yeah. Then you've got the rise of Hitler and you've got the >> eugenics. >> Eugenics. All of that sort of it's been forever. You got the Klux Clan in the United States [snorts] >> where people believe that on the basis of somebody's DNA that they're somehow inferior. Yeah. >> Now, there is an argument of course you could have to say that uh an ideology is inferior. You could say that a culture may be inferior. It doesn't recognize, you know, the democracy and all of the things we've we've come to on on the west in the western culture, so to speak. um could be superior or inferior or whatever, but but not just on the basis of race. >> No. So that the term racism and you're racist and all of that is being used to silence people >> to create that chilling effect to scare people into silence and we really need to be speaking up. So, I think that I just wanted to put that up front [clears throat] in my submission. What is racism? It's um it isn't what everybody is saying and it's not how they're using. I mean, it's interesting if you look at do we really have people that believe, you know, like, oh, you you're from a different race, so you know, our race is >> Well, there's people that do believe that, right? >> Yeah. >> And and they're entitled to believe that. We we're entitled to ignore them. You know, that's the way I look at it. >> The the guy that runs to party Mai, doesn't he say it all the time? >> Mai are superior. >> Oh, it was even in the on their website that, you know, Mari invented swimming and that they're superior. It was all sorts of nonsense like that. It's it's well, it's often called reverse racism, but to party Mari, Rari, YT, uh, all of that lot, they're deeply racist. They actually hate part of themselves. Well, this isn't it's not New Zealand or Kiwi. It hasn't really been the way we've been. I mean, we did have an issue with the uh around the time of the you know, South Africa and the Spring Box and uh you know, we don't like racism and so that's just a weapon that's being used to silence people. And if if people could understand, and a lot of people say, a lot of Kiwis are saying, "I'm not racist. I'm not racist, but I don't want uh these, you know, we're being overrun. We're being overrun with migrants. We can't our children can't get jobs. Our youth can't get jobs. Adults can't get jobs. all the businesses in Oakland. I mean, it's something like is it 70 60% of the total population of Indians live in Oakland and [clears throat] 70% of the total population of people from China live in Oakland. So people living outside of Oakland might not quite understand where a lot of this fear and and alarm is coming from, but you go to your local shops and there's it's you know that person is from the Philippines, Vietnamese, Korean. I mean we've had that for a long time. But when it's every shop, >> it's [clears throat] every restaurant, it's every business. I mean, we see we've seen the perils of uh unfeted immigration in places like the UK where they're experiencing it every day now. We've whole towns completely changed in in their outlook >> in their in the way that things are portrayed. We're getting some of that happening here now. >> Yes. Like if you drive, anyone in Oakuckland knows that, you know, if you drive up Dominion Road and get to Mount Roscll, it's like halal shops, um butcher shops, um uh uh all sorts of various different ethnic the whole area. There's hardly even uh um you know, a a shop that's owned by what we'd call traditional Kiwis. It just doesn't happen. >> Yeah. So, this is what I [clears throat] wanted to put into my submission. Actually racism is the second thing that I try to explain for the committee. What is racism? And many many Kiwis and not just you know many Kiwis including some Indian including some Chinese are concerned and are trying to express their concerns and they just get labeled racist. So it's not coming from racism. It is not that they believe that Indian people are inferior kind of a human. It isn't that. We have legitimate concerns and they deserve to be heard. So the first part of my submission [snorts] is what I've learned over the many years. I mean I've lectured on what is colonization, what is racism? I have um I did this big study. >> Yeah. Because we're told colonization is bad, right? What was >> it's human? And they do it all the time. They've done it forever. >> So, >> exactly. I mean, everyone who talks, you know, especially people in in the UK, they talk about um, you know, they they're being attacked by for being European basically. But if you look at the United Kingdom, it's been colonized since forever, right? There was Britannic um, uh, cultures in the UK. Uh, then the Romans came across and conquered basically most of it. And then after they left and their power waned, you had the Angles, the Saxons and the Judes, which then created the the modern England or or Angland as it was originally called, they've been col colonized. They're being colonized again right now, but it's a different it's going a different way. >> There's different forms of it, I suppose. So, in my submission, I say that there's three ways in which colonization has occurred over >> the whole of human life and history. One is by >> by force. by force war just >> conquering >> conquering take you know go in take it over the [snorts] and the second one is and I'm not saying these are in chronological order or anything but there are three different types and there you enter into a treaty uh and you have an agreement and then this is of course what happened for New Zealand and then you you you have a treaty or this you might have a FTA a trade agreement >> and then that opens the doors and then another people come in. They end up uh reaching a you know they become dominant in numbers not always >> or at least a significant minority. >> You know like you could you could have 30% immigration of one from one particular place. It's it's not the majority, but it's a significant minority that does affect the the the fabric of the nation. >> Well, it's about power [clears throat] over the institutions and what's taught in schools and what's believed. So, you could you could have a very influential minority that has so much influence that gets into power and they change everything. >> Yeah. Or you can you can have we have a democracy so you can have the numbers and then you just start to vote for change and you get into parliament and you get into local council and you start changing all the laws to meet you know to match your culture and your beliefs and what you want. So colonization I I tend to think of it more of the end product where you had one culture, one people and it was all a certain way [clears throat] >> and then another group comes in and it's another way like Iran, >> you know, like many countries in the world like >> um many of the nations that China has taken over for example. So that's where colonization has occurred and the original people um their culture is diminished, their ways of life have diminished and eventually of course the one tactic of colonization is to break down the how they arrange their family, their belief systems, their religion and they must assimilate and become like the colonized So, we we've got a long history of that. Not that long, only, you know, a couple of hundred years. But, um, I my submission is that I think the FDA opens us up to a real risk of the third way that colonization happens, and that's by stealth. >> Yeah. >> And this is what we're seeing in Europe. >> Um, >> and people are now rising up against that because no one voted for this. >> No. You know, you take what we're talking about here, the India New Zealand free trade agreement, and you know, all of us who live in Oakuckland or or or thereabouts all know somebody who's who's come from India or from Fiji. That's where most of our exposure to Indian people is from is from Fiji because they mostly came here after the coups. This is a whole another different level though. This is something that was never proposed by any party. It was rushed through by Christopher Luxen who wanted a win on trade. And I'm not sure it's a win from where I'm looking at it from. And I used to be a big fan of free trade agreements, but New Zealand's a small country. We do need to trade, but we need to trade on our terms, not necessarily on the terms of China, which is the biggest free trade agreement. And everyone points at that and says, "Oh, but look, we could have the same thing with India." Well, we could, but they're different. >> Yeah. There's there's trade, uh, fair trade, and then there's getting gouged, you know. I mean, many many countries that have been taken over through history, it's either for survival that the the group that goes to war or take over another, you know, area. uh they they needed the resources, you know, they wanted the land or um >> it's exactly what Billy Brown was saying in the previous podcast. They're saying, you know, India is looking at places like New Zealand. We can feed 40 million people. >> Yeah. >> They don't care about democracy in China. If they want something, they have of a mind to take it. >> Yeah. >> And they have an attitude of expansionism as well. And you only have to look at the Spratley Islands or in in the South China Sea, the conflicts over barren pieces of rock because it helps extend the the Chinese hedgemony into a into a closer and closer and closer to the Philippines into Indonesia and to Vietnam and to Malaysia and it's it's creeping out that way. >> Yeah. So through history and what I could see I looked at 105 I was looking at smoking among indigenous people >> and I thought one of the things so I did you know country case studies one of the things that I wanted to look at was um have they been colonized so 105 countries and the overall learning from that I think as I could see we only went back 5,000 years so nothing before the Ottoman Empire But even so, you could see this expansion and so nations, you know, they would expand and and just take in neighboring communities, islands on the other side of the world. your resources resources and New Zealand is a resourcerrich land >> very much so >> and a jewel um and you know Fiji so we've seen [snorts] uh India even India the British you know went in there for a while and South Africa and so expansion and then you have some kind of war or revolution or fight back where countries fight to get there like what's happening with Ukraine Ukraine and Russia at the moment and then contraction. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't it's not it's not a process. >> But where that contraction happens is the moment at which you can have what you say is the third way by stealth >> stealth >> happening you know then and that's again you know again look at Ukraine right like Ukraine didn't exist really as a country um until after World War II. then it was part of the of the USSR. And then when that broke up, then Ukraine was created as a country, but the Ukraine as as a region has kind of always been under Russian control right back to Peter the Great. And so you've got people that are Russian living in Ukraine and that's the areas that Putin is saying, well, we're protecting them. Of course, it's a it's a facade, but those people are actually Russian that are living in there and they've been creeping in there over over time under the Soviet Union in those heavy industrial areas and those parts of Ukraine. >> Yeah. So, you have like the nation, Russia, the nation, but then within that you have tribes, you have ethnic groups, >> not unlike New Zealand. >> Exactly. Russia has a lot. Uh China has a lot. India has there are over a hundred indigenous tribes. >> U they don't recognize that they know there are 100 indigenous tribes but they don't recognize this is why they don't want to be held to the unrip in their country because they have many indigenous people. One of the stupidest things John Key ever did. Unrip >> Yeah, that's it's a disaster. And to see by stealth it being snuck in, you know, uh we could talk about where we when we talk about tobacco how you have these United Nations agreements or treaties or uh you know agreements made at that global level and then they are guidelines. They are aspirational. their their statements >> and and and the bureaucrats, they love this sort of stuff because they've got an agenda and so they pick up unrip and they go, "Oh, this is fantastic. We can slip this in under that." >> Yeah. And they slip it in and they just when an amendment >> they all agree with that. >> Yeah. When Well, some do and some don't. So what we've seen in bureaucrats in the ministries and I remember when I worked for the public health commission that's a long time ago but when you got a government change there was like a clean sweep you know people people would leave so people who were they they voted labor they love labor they worked for the government as a policy analyst or in in the bureaucracies and then national gets Then they leave. They used to leave. >> They don't or they stay there. >> No, that's right. And or they they were pushed out, you know. So, usually the the director general of health or the head of the organization will be put there by the the government that is in and then when a new government comes in, that person is replaced with one of their own. So, uh, we lost a lot of good people in the Ministry of Health and throughout the health, um, when when Labor got in and they they weren't welcome anymore and they were pushed out or they chose to leave. Uh, and so what's happened with this current government? >> Yep. They're not leaving now. They're staying there. They've got a fifth columnist sitting there undermining. We I mean I revealed um the debacle that went on under Asia Verl as the health minister >> over disposable batteries [snorts] in vapes and that was health officials who had thought sought to control alternatives to tobacco, right? Vapes mainly because they they actually are not opposed to vapes. What they're opposed to is big tobacco companies making money from vapes. So they don't actually care about the health consequences. So what they want to do is make sure it's as difficult as possible for a company to move from selling tobacco based products to selling vapes or as we've got on the table here oral nicotine things. The same people who oppose tobacco are opposing these products as well. >> Yeah. >> And they stay there despite the change of government. But what those health officials did is they changed the law to say that unless it was able to be removed, the battery was able to remove those products couldn't be sold here, which was the majority of them. But it also inadvertently exposed us to breaches in the Chinese Free Trade Agreement because the law was written so badly that it covered all things with a sealed or unable to be removed battery which meant cell phones, laptops, hearing aids, all of these sorts of things. And it was the unintended consequences that some health officials intent on knobbling an industry they didn't agree with and then it caused massive problem because it's been overturned now um with a separate set of legislation. But that's what happens. They stay there and they act as fifth columnists against the government because they don't agree with that government or its policies. >> Yep. That's right. And you've experienced that too in in in the health sector because you pres present evidence that's contrary to >> what they believe is the the right way to go. >> Yeah. We've moved away from science um informed policy. It's it's driven by political ideologies and and this fight that they've just got to fight. You know, they need to get the propaganda. They need the public and the voters to believe that the opposition are evil and they will smear them and they will they will do anything that I find them quite violent really. I know that I use extreme terms violent but um >> well they can be I mean I've been attacked for presenting evidence that's contrary to that. I mean, you know, I've done some research into some of the health professionals that are in the the anti- tobacco and they're lobbyists just the same as someone is promoting tobacco, >> but they've they're the ones they're the ones working the puppet strings. >> Well, they've also done deals with tobacco companies. This this is the ludicrous thing, right? >> The Century 21. >> Century 21. They And I've released all this information. I've published all this information. crickets in the mainstream media, right? It showed public health officials who are still in the media today being quoted about about their um >> uh tobacco policies and things like that promoting and having adopted a low nicotine product that only one company in the world makes. >> Yes. because it because it fails at market. >> But they met them. [snorts] They met them multiple times. The minutes of the meetings are able to be read. They cut a deal to push this in as public policy that would have effectively created a monopoly for one tobacco company. And that's what the health officials did. >> And they're still there trying to promote this. >> Yeah. But I mean it's not a Yeshua Varel's um area of expertise. uh her link with them was that she was also University of Ortaga. Yes. And it had been a strategy for a long time in tobacco control where you know how do we get how do we get more influence you know I mean it was on it was on the drawing board. >> All the things that they accuse of >> we need to put an MP in. >> Yeah. >> But all the things they accuse big tobacco of they're doing. >> They're doing now. And that Yeah. It's pretty shocking. And so yes, they they will ruin your life >> as you know and I strong >> they will ruin your life. They it it's really it's really frightening if you you they go this person is a threat then they will it almost feels to me it's like somebody has stolen my identity. It's like identity theft. They take your name and your photos and then they portray you as if you're somebody you are. That says that isn't [clears throat] me. >> Yeah, I know. Exactly. >> Yeah. You know, I KNOW YOU KNOW >> I KNOW I HAD books written about me that aren't me. >> Yeah. >> It's like it is kind of an identity theft and it leads to social death. It leads to career death. It leads to all of these things. Very damaging. And I know from all the research I've done around this phenomenon is that there are over 320 that was a while ago. So there's probably a lot more professors have committed suicide around the world when they've been targeted in this way. So I I was always like I must remember that the end goal is that you you you kill yourself. That's what they want. the best outcome for them, the easiest outcome. >> I know that that's what they tried to do with me. Yes. >> Right. I know someone who was in the room when they were planning saying, "Look, we this guy has depression. We just need to force him a bit more pressure on him, then he'll kill himself." >> It's true. >> That's what they said in the meeting. >> And you cannot be anything to do with public health. You cannot be a professor or an academic or a researcher in public health if you participate in that kind of attack on a person with the end goal being hopefully they'll top themselves. You know, it's like yes. So public health I'm kind of like we need to chop it right back. It's got to be chopped right back. you got to get rid of all of this grifting and and >> well I mean that's how I got started getting into the public health and they tried to sue me these people because I was pointing out the hypocrisy of them >> you know people like Boyd Swinburn and and Shane Bradbrook you know Shane Bradbrook really well um they're just grifters and they're out there pushing an agenda and then generating money off that agenda and not necessarily for themselves but certainly for their departments or the universities that they've got and they're constantly addicted to getting themselves into the media >> and with almost zero uh real world experience was they haven't they're cloistered academics mostly and if you look at Shane Bradbrook for example he's been paid millions of dollars or his organization's been paid millions of dollars to stop people smoking and he doesn't [laughter] >> I'm I'm going like zip on, you know, cuz they do they this is this whole clamping down on free speech using dirty tactics and threats and gag orders and all sorts of things. So yeah, >> I can say it though. >> [laughter] >> the so back to my FDA I really wanted people to understand that >> the risk to New Zealand uh we are seeing it happen in Europe um that's okay not a free trade agreement but they opened the borders and >> no one voted for that did they no one had had at an election said we're going to open the borders and let in a million immigrants >> it it's like um Gad Sad's new book, you know, suicidal empathy. >> Empathy. Yeah. >> Um, many I think many of them don't understand. And so this is another thing. Why does the public not understand what is happening? Why do they think, oh, we're so we're such nice people? And the Swed Swedish people are nice people. People in Norway, they are nice people. Uh, Kiwis are nice people and and they have heart and they want to help and that gets manipulated and exploited and they're told you will be helping and oh these poor people they need you know there's all these refugees. So I happened to be in Warsaw just after the Ukraine for a conference just after the Ukraine you know the war broke out and that that was an amazing um insight. I mean you know being a foreigner but people I met people who lived in Poland. I met this woman and she said that the people in Ukraine they were looking to get out and they they went to the border from Warsaw. It's only two hours by car. >> Yeah. It's not far. >> So, she went out, got in her car, and drove there. And on the motorway, this there wasn't planned. There was no one. There was no phone tree. Hey everyone, let's go get them. Individuals, the individual Polish people got in their car, went to the border, and picked them up and took them back to their homes. And so, there's there were maybe a million went into the into Poland. Now, it's 2 million. and they've just absorbed them. They're they're brothers. They're faro. They've related a lot of them. >> A few people I know in Poland as well and they're all ready for a fight with Russia. [snorts] >> They they well remember what it was like under the Warsaw pact. >> Yes. Yeah. And yeah, I've heard stories about about that and seen and gone to all their museums there. So, [snorts] we have uh where were we? we were talking about um you know colonization and what's happening in Europe with the open borders and I mean I've been I've done a lot of travel uh and I've been seeing the change in Europe over more than a couple decades now and it's really shocking it's shocking so >> there's some areas in particular cities in Europe that there's now a monoculture that's not >> the culture of of the country where that city is. So let's talk about that because I have a little bit about that in my FDA uh in the FDA submission as well and and we had friends in Germany and and in England and I would we go stay with them [snorts] and so even in Germany there are they said there are places there are suburbs there are places you do not go >> and even in north of north of England there yes this is very white there's a lot of white people here, not many not many other people and they're like, "Oh, no, they're here. We have whole areas. You do not go." So, what I talk about in my submission um and one of the, you know, feeds into this fear and shock that is happening uh among Kiwis uh when their whole environment, their whole suburb where they live is just changing and they don't recognize it anymore. So what it's a global phenomenon where you have migrants come into a country it makes sense that they're going to oh we know people there we'll go stay with them first and >> that's where you see places like Fong Peroa and and the Northshore there's a lot of South Africans that live there >> in Papatoi and parts of Manau of Indians uh have moved into there in fact in in some places >> like like Mangry for example, or um Otara that used to be predominantly Maui are now predominantly Pacifica. Maui have been pushed south into places like Clinton Park and and places in South Oakland like that. But but if you look closer to the city around Sandringham, around Mount Roscoll, it's a very clear ethnic um import into that area. >> Yeah. So we we have we have that area. So it happens. But what I'm arguing is, and it's one thing when people from England come here or people from Scotland or people from even people even white South Africans um come here, we do have some similar cultural beliefs, religious beliefs, um believe in democracy, believe in liberal, believe in free speech. You know, we do have shared values. And when you invite a group who do not have who have some values that are incompatible with what I say is our unique Kiwi culture which is a blend. It's a it's a blend of mai Pacific and all and European and European. >> It's you can't say that it's oh but Europeans were very different from MAI. We're not that mai anymore. We are not the same. So we're talking 240 years of blending. >> Yeah. >> Of intermarriage >> and of creating essentially an eal egalitarian society, which is what Billy was talking in the last podcast. >> He was saying that this is one of the few countries in the world where you can leave school at 14 or 15 and go and work and actually make a living for yourself. >> Used to be used to be. Now that that's being >> which is what you touch on in your submission. >> Yes, that's right. So we have a unique culture. We have a beautiful unique country and that needs to be protected. Well, people can argue that. But so we have had we've had many Indian people uh we've had many Chinese people. We have a lot of people who have come from overseas and they have settled here and they have and they have they they're part of that blend. >> Well, you take um Ash Palmer for example. I've had him on the podcast. He came from India as a child, was put through school by his parents who ran um you know bottle stores in and around the Hamilton area. He's then got into business because he he failed at university and he decided he would just go and learn what his father had learned in business. He's become a successful businessman. Now he's a member of the ACT party and stood for them at the last election. We don't have any problem with that. We we are a welcoming country but I don't think we're ready for what the India FTA actually I mean a classic example is in the FTA if you read it there's something like an allowance for 250 yoga teachers a year. Do do we need is do we need 250 yoga teachers in New Zealand? There's yoga studios everywhere. >> Everywhere. Yeah. Do do we really need that or do we need you know there's a couple of other things that are in there that are equally ludicrous and it opens the door and it gets wider and once that doors open and it's wedged open it stays open. >> Well the student one is is >> well India's biggest export is its people. >> It's [snorts] not a one-way export you know I mean >> try and go and live in India. This is like we're like a gold mine >> and gold miners are going to come here. Yeah. With no security. Gold miners are going to come here. They're going to rip out the gold and they're going to take it back or send it back. So uh there are a lot of people from other from you know India other cultures that live here that love it here that love our way of life that love being a de democracy that love the equality you know that men and women are equal uh they don't have a cast society we don't have um they love it and they're part of New Zealand and they become um Kiwis as well. There was a story on the weekend of a guy who's run a store in a country town for 53 years and before that it was run for 20 years by his father >> from India >> came here. He's the life and blood of that town. He's got seen it go from thousands of people down to hundreds of people and he's saying I've had enough now I'm going to retire. >> That is a true blue kiwi right there. So we we haven't had a problem with immigration in the past, but the FDA is signaling very clearly that we may have an a a problem in the future. >> Well, we we have a problem now because this rapid um migr very very rapid very rapid that allowing so many people. So the issue isn't about race. The issue is about >> who and what >> culture beliefs are the are the people coming do they have compatible beliefs and um and compatible cultures. So we could go to the extreme. We could look at what's happening in the UK and in Europe where you have the um the extreme Islamists and >> thankfully we don't have that here yet. Mhm. >> It's growing. [laughter and gasps] >> Well, you know, we always it was always said that New Zealand everything that [clears throat] happens we're 20 years behind. That's something that happens overseas, but I mean things are speeding up. It's not we're not 20 years behind anymore. However, so you can see what's happening in the UK and in Europe and and the US >> and Australia >> and Australia. Okay. Australia is really good because it is just across >> it's only three hours away >> the ditch. Yeah, it that's very close. So, it's time for Kiwis, for all of New Zealanders to think about the mosques um that are going up and when you know the burka is that okay? um when we have teachers taking kids to a mosque to learn about another culture, you know, so we have to start thinking about that. >> Imagine the outcry if they took people to a church or a monastery. >> Yeah. >> Right. There'd be an absolute outcry. How dare they? You know, we've got some media people that have taken it upon their shoulders to hunt down anybody who's Christian. >> Yep. So there's very uneven >> uneven handling of of everything. >> So uh the other issue is it's not just that some people have beliefs that are incompatible with New Zealand beliefs but how fast this is happening. So we have it it is from the perspective as a professor of public health there is a public health issue here. the stress, the fear, the uh anxiety, and the way that a community is broken down. Uh that that a person who's, you know, been raised and lived all their life in a sleepy little suburb or or town of New Zealand, uh and suddenly it's and this is what Kiwis are saying. I don't recognize the country I grew up in anymore. Uh and you can because of this clustering effect that happens where [snorts] they come they go where they know people and then they have a very different uh way of doing business values around business and they tend to want to employ people like them and of course this has been the ongoing you know MAI said it about the Europeans you you're not employing us, you just employ other European. And and so this is why Kiwis, young Kiwis now are being locked out of entry level jobs, hospitality, construction, road work. >> It's not just those. Go to any government department, right? Go >> call centers, >> calls. But you look at say Takapuna for example, you can't get much whiter than Takapuna really, right? It's it's pretty pretty monoculture you would have thought except you go to the Ministry of Social Development on the main street. Just stand outside there for a while. >> Go and have a look at all the people that are working in there. >> No, it's a different culture altogether in there. There's a a good deal more people that are not from the Pacific that are working in government departments. M >> how often do you ring a bank and you get someone who can barely speak English? So you know Long Bay. >> So So I live in Tor Bay and Long Bay Todd development. You lots of big new housing there. So it's a new suburb that's been built. So just on 50% were born overseas. Um nearly 50% are from China. So there we have a suburb that is, you know, it's like having these ethnic enclaves really. um and or in World War II they talked about ghettos but it's not a ghetto. It's a beautiful place, but there are over 50% or 50% Chinese living in Long Bay. Then it's so that's a new suburb. This is what starts to happen. And then they do business with each other. The Indian community do business with each other. So they trade. There's kind of a mini economic system that's set up. Um and they, you know, lots of product being imported from China and sold to Chinese builders and like we have so much infill housing and housing development across Tor Bay, Long Bay and where one suburban dreamhouse, you know, would have been a dream, the Kiwi Dream is knocked down and there's now 18 threestory town houses smacked onto to, you know, onto that site. But if you drove through there and you look at the building, the construction teams, and they're all Chinese. Um, there's no jobs there for our young Kiwis. And I recently interviewed a restaurant manager. She said, um, she's the only Kiwi and everyone else. She said, "We can't the Kiwis don't apply. all the workers in the restaurant are migrants. And so I asked my daughter about that because we um we bought a bar and uh she ended up managing that for us. She's got her duty managers. She she did a great job. She knows how to do the accounts, a whole lot of things. She's got experience. She's got a qualification. >> And we thought she would walk into another job. Um, nope. Every job 500 to a,000 applicants. So on seek they're overs subscribed. Uh, you can she can even see if if the company employing has even opened anything. And so we were a bit surprised. Uh, I asked her, I told her what the restaurant manager said. She said, "Yeah, because they'll work for minimum wage." So, it doesn't matter if you get a job and your your responsibility is duty manager >> or managing or it doesn't matter what job you do, it's all minimum wage and they're willing to take minimum wage. So, we have young people, Kiwis, and I say in my submission, it's a breach of the social contract. that social contract was go to school, get an education, >> get a job, >> get some work experience. Even if it's like delivering papers or milk run, don't have them anymore, but [snorts] uh get some work experience and you get an entry- level job, you'll get a job, and then, you know, then you can get on with your life of having fun and saving for a house and kids and etc. Well, no. They can't get a job anymore because many of the jobs are being taken by migrants. Uh the students are going to be allowed to come here for 3 years for do their degrees. So, the universities are going to love that, right? >> Um I mean >> this when did all this start? You know, because the way I can, you know, look back through through a political lens, I think it started like under Helen Clark and then continued by John Key. That's how he keep the economy going was immigration and it's only ever had little tiny handbrekes put on it by New Zealand First. um that because they're a small part of a of a larger government, they really don't get a lot of say in that. So the handbrekes have never come on. the the only handbreak that there was probably was co >> the I think that what has occurred in the last let's say decade >> um so definitely the laborled coalition labor governmentled government uh it was just the doors were flung open apart from lockdown when it was not but the doors were flung open >> particularly after 2020 >> yeah the doors were flung open the growth in that these are our fastest growing populations are the Indian and Chinese populations >> and it's the pace of change. Now my proposal is that psychologically people cannot cope with a very rapid social change in their environment. It may be this happens you know lots of the research is around a disaster. So the tsuna a tsunami a volcano and you know >> natural events or natural that cause refugees or things like that >> and and so there there are some kind of disorders that happen where people their whole world has just been turned upside down or everything has changed and that can create um these sort of anxiety disorders um displacement you know, like they lose their sense of belonging, a sense of confusion. So, there's an increase in depression and anxiety and stress disorders. Um, and this pace of change has been too rapid, too fast for local Kiwi communities who have been whose community around them is the face of it is changing >> and the politicians have been dismissive of anybody who's put their hand up and said, "Well, hang on a second. When was I consulted about this?" >> Absolutely dismissive. they're not considering the mental health effects. Um, so people, how will people react, they they can start to isolate. Um, they don't feel as safe in their community. It's not racism. This is a >> they're just uncomfortable. >> It's a Yeah, it's like I don't recognize this anymore. This is not this is not the culture that they are familiar with. You know, it's it's not it's not the same as say taking somebody from a sustainable, let's say a Fijian village out on one of the islands, you distant where they still live, you know, on the tribal land in the tribe under that culture with their culture >> and they grow their own food. So the self-subsistence living uh agricultural lifestyle it's a very ancient >> well you can even look locally right you can take somebody who's lived in Oakuckland and they move to Wiki >> I don't know about that one what happens to you [laughter] >> well it depends because they say they're an inclusive society but they're not inclusive if you don't subscribe to their womble type ideas and eerie fairiness then you're excluded But these are small things that that happen like saying in Oakland are moving to Christ Church. You're going to get years and years of people calling you an Oaklander even though you've chosen to live in Christ Church. These things happen internally as well. >> But when you bring in people from overseas that don't have shared values, and that's really what it comes down to, >> then you're going to have friction. >> Yep. And the more you bring, the more friction there is, you know, like, and people say, well, what can you do to solve that? We I think New Zealand tried, I don't know what it's like now, but I I don't think it's the same. But I know in the '9s that immigration was based on what skills we needed, >> right? And it doesn't look like it's like that anymore. >> No. No. because young Kiwis uh are being pushed out being they're blocked out. So we've got what is it 15 point around 15% uh not in employment or education. >> They call them neat, don't they? >> Yeah, there's nothing neat about it. It's not great. And um so that that's a real big problem. Uh I think just you know what one thing that's important I mean we can talk about tangwa you know your place place where you stand where you belong >> and having a sense of place and a sense of belonging is an important psychological well-being you know determinant and >> and this gets destroyed if people have lived in say one of these to bay because to bay used to be all of bay as well there were houses down and then they've lived there all their life and it's been a certain way and now it's not that way anymore. And if they they're a senior and >> they don't have that and don't experience that sense of place. There's so many effects of what is happening. But this um occulturation, you know, it's not the migrants that are having to acculturate to the Kiwi culture. It's the Kiwis have to >> we've been told to be we've told to be welcoming and inclusive, >> which we we always have been. So the other factor to consider, it's not just the rapid pace. It's not just that some people who may have very incompatible uh [clears throat] values and practices such as what I see as pedophilia basically, you know, >> sex [clears throat] with children, forced marriage with children, >> degradation of women, >> you know, not allowing women to have education, subjugation of women. >> Yep. All of that. It is incompatible with the Kiwi. >> And then there's endemic corruption in many of these countries as well. >> Yep. So, we are a very young country. We're very young, 240 years, >> and we haven't really had a revolution or or a civil war or anything like that. >> We're high trust society. We have been a high trust society. We knew everybody. We knew people in our community. And yeah, you always have some bad. >> There's always some rat bags. >> Yeah, there's always some rat bags. and you know and it hurts when they rip you off but largely we are quite naive. Uh we tend to be off the bat assume that people are good and trusting of people. We're not going to be able to be like that anymore. We have to, you know, we're going to have to learn not to just assume that everybody is good, not to just assume that everybody wants the best for New Zealand and the best for all of us. See, we see this with our politicians. You have Christopher Luxon and every [snorts] national politician and act politician all saying this is going to be motherhood and apple pie. The free trade agreement is going to be fabulous for New Zealand. It opens up a market with more than a billion people in it. Blah blah blah. Everything's wonderful. They never ever consider or even speak of potential issues with that except for New Zealand first. And then they flippantly say, "Well, we've just got to prepare for a butter chicken tsunami." Now, it's kind of brilliant the way he said that because it made you stop and think, well, hang on a minute. What is he talking about? And that image is not one that people can forget. It's but a chicken tsunami. And that's [snorts] why they're picking up votes because they're saying we need to have a conversation about this. And yes, we've used, you know, uh, hyperbole and and and you know, everyone called Shane Jones racist for saying it, but it really is a tsunami of PE. If you live in Oakuckland, you know, you know this, if you live in or you if you lived somewhere else down the country, it's nowhere near as bad. >> No. and and that's because of this clustering. So the so we New Zealand young naive uh high trust society high compliance with the law as well high compliance with the law and we we expect people to comply with the law okay India massive country uh 1.4 4 billion people, many many many different cultures live there. >> Yeah. >> They're not all the same. They have, you know, three main languages. I think that but many more languages. And so when you say, okay, the doors are open. India there are there very many different people >> but it's not just and this is what people forget about India, right? There is a cast system. We can't not talk about it. There is a cast system. And then there's cast systems within the various different ethnic groupings. You've got the seiks, you've got various different groups and they have the cast system as well. And like if you look at Fiji and the the indentured um the the indentured uh workers that were brought from India to work in Fiji, most of them were in the lower casts. And so the Indians you see from Fiji are different from the Indians that come from India. Way different. >> Yep. >> And that's not a bad thing. >> And they also came from southern India and they're like Tamil districts. Correct. You know India is a massive huge country. So one of the things in traveling in India that I noticed and I asked our Indian guides about I was like because you're on the roads I mean it can be like a motorway size and the cars are just going everywhere and the and the >> you go how does this work? It just does. >> They're just going all over the place. And I'm like don't you have road rules? And they're like yep. >> And then the housing I'm looking at the housing and I'm like >> don't you have building codes? >> Don't you have building codes? They're like yep. So there's there is very low compliance with the laws. So they can pass laws. They'll pass a law. It's almost a performative. >> But see that's the problem that you have if you're in involved in trade and you're exporting to India or China and you have a dispute over something, right? the way your product is being used, the way whatever >> you think that you can go into a court >> in India and resolve that or in China and resolve that and you can't resolve it. It will take 20 years and you'll give up because >> let's not talk about intellectual property, you know. So, >> no, let's not talk about it. [laughter] Yeah, I mean the main the main concern I have is that there are some people some groups in India have very incompatible uh beliefs and practices. So I picked out maybe people would think it's an extreme example of child marriage but I would hope that many people in New Zealand are like no you're not bringing that here. you are not bringing that here. And we see it of course in the across Europe and the countries that um the radical Islamists are trying to take over. Uh I actually see what's happening as a war. Again using an extreme term, but it is a form of war. What is going on and uh rape is an act of war. It's a tool of war. um humiliating. >> Well, that's the one thing. If you look at immigration in Europe, particularly in the last 10 years, >> most of it has been males. >> Yeah. >> Between 18 and 35. >> They're soldiers. >> Yeah, that's right. >> They're soldiers. And >> they're an invading army, albeit unarmed. >> Yep. And you've got a country like Sweden, Norway, Finland, um you know, kind of similar to us. high trust, high compliance with the law, good hearts and democratic but high social, you know, social programs as well and they thought they were helping. They want to help and so and they >> you saw that in the UK. >> Yeah. One difference I thought between Sweden and those countries and us was that we in New Zealand have never well I won't say never because we did used to but recently if people come here they're encouraged to hang on to their culture there we have freedom of religion they're encouraged to stay >> it's one of the ways they spread though particularly um uh from people from Muslim countries right now. Islam is a proletizing religion, right? They go out to get recruits either by stealth >> orce or force and mostly by force. >> Um that's why they have jihad and things like that. So if we first thing they do when they get here is establish >> a a place that they can worship. And even in Silverdale, right, >> there is an Islamic center that used to be where the rugby club is. >> M >> right there in Silverdale, just as you get off the motorway, there's an Islamic center there. It won't be long before there's a bigger Islamic center. And I'm not against Islam per se. I mean, I've got a lot of Muslim friends. Um but I am against uh extremism of any religion but Islam is the most dangerous that is pathologically uh opposed to the values of a western liberal democracy and if we import that and we import too much of that then I see that we will have significant problems such as what is man manifesting itself in in Sydney and in Melbourne and also we're seeing it in the United Kingdom in a huge huge way. >> Yeah. >> Um it's also now bad in in the United States in particular states, Minnesota especially with with Somali immigrants that are some people from Somalia. They're Muslims and they've come in taken over the child care system, roted the system for hundreds of millions of dollars. >> And if you dare say anything, you're a racist. >> Yeah. I mean for many many Kiwis a lot of this you know examples like that the fraud >> uh and and child marriage and the the level of of pedophilia bribery is kind of beyond >> their imagination. You know it's sort of >> oh well it's over there somewhere. Yeah that's bad but you know what can we do about it? Well, when it's going to be living next to you, living next door in your community and at what point are we going to wake up? You know, we have Sweden, Finland, Norway, all of those European countries. It's happening all across there. Europe, Ireland, you know, having [ __ ] up a island. I'm like, come on. Come on. When are you going to fight back? Well, actually I saw a news article yesterday actually um where the um Irish Republican Army, the IRA, formerly terrorist terrorists are now policing their communities and saying if you are interfering with women and children you've got us to deal with. >> About time about time a lot of crippled >> we don't want New Zealand to get to that extent >> but we don't do that. That's the problem. New Zealanders are so laidback. They're horizontal, [laughter] right? And we just let things happen because we we just want to go along to get along. >> I think a lot of people feel really powerless, especially with the the way politics has been over the last Well, we're nearly talking a decade. >> Years. No, it's more than that. >> Yeah. And people feel powerless. It did. It's like it doesn't matter who you vote for. Well, they don't get in and or they get in, but then they're just the same as the other people. People feel powerless. >> That's what they say about ne Labor and National. They're two cheeks on the same bum. [laughter] It's it's like I mean this is why I ran for the local board in in the east coast base because >> the somebody you know the need to be independence the whole it's another story but um I just am seeing feeling the level of fear the alarm people are really alarmed They they're being uh >> they're being colonized. >> They're and their concerns are just being trivialized uh demeaned. They're being demeaned and abused for saying what they think. So that isn't that's not free speech. No, that that's not >> um Yeah. So there there's a huge division huge division in New Zealand and um anyway was we were talking about getting bigger. >> Yeah. So child marriage so just as an example for example child marriage marrying under 18 has been there's a law against it in India despite the fact and they're going to stamp it out despite the fact that there's a law against it there are 222 women and children girls who who were married under the age of 18 22 million sorry I forgot the million 42 times the size of the population of New Zealand. 42 times our population are women and girls who were married under the age of 18. 5% between 8 years old and 12 years old. Is that what we want here? You know, I think that I think that pedophilia, believing it's okay to do anything sexual at all with children is the is the canary in the mine. >> You know, uh if you've you've got that happening, there's something seriously wrong with your society. Yes, it's a moral wrong. You could say it's a moral wrong, but you're entitled. >> But you'll get some weirdos that will say, "Oh, no, it's okay." >> But they are. They're weirdos. >> They're wrong. >> And it is okay. It's okay to determine for you what you believe is right and wrong. And I feel it into my bones. It's wrong. And [clears throat] if you believe something is wrong, good on you. You're allowed to. That's what we're about. That's our culture. That's our democracy. >> It's not racist to say so either. >> No, it isn't. >> It's simply facts. As you've said, 22 232 million, >> women, children. >> Yeah. >> That have been married. >> Yeah. >> Against the law in India >> out of a population 1.4 billion. >> Marriage. This isn't marriage as like >> we imagine it to be. No. >> No. So we think, oh marriage, it's not marriage. It's sexual slavery and it's pedophilia >> if they're a child. That's what it is. So, you know, I would love that the UN did something about that, but you know, >> and they're more interested in beating up Israel. [laughter] you know, it's [snorts] um we we shouldn't we're pretty lax, I think. And then when you see people actually get caught for pedophilia and for rape and these gang rapes and this sexual violence um and they get caught and they're just getting let off in the UK. >> Yeah. >> And and across Europe. But you if you put a a mean tweet on on X, then the police will come and arrest you and drag you out of your house. >> That's right. That's right. So, this is where the the term racism has [clears throat] been distorted. We're talking about the sky is green. The sky is green. The grass is blue. You've got it wrong. This type of inversion of the meaning of words, which is to confuse people, >> which is what George Orwell um predicted. It's what George Orwell warned us about. >> Some people unfortunately read 1984 and thought that's a good manual. >> Yes. >> We'll implement that. One of which was Jinder Adurn. >> Yep. Yep. And the propaganda uh and in our modern world so obviously the internet has opened up u massive advances and we have tools now. So we can we can read tweets from people who speak a different language because it's built in. You can just say translate. You can see >> it's automatically done now. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You don't even need to. You just choose English and it everything's presented. >> So for the first time in the history of humans on this planet, we have a way to communicate across the world >> universally. >> Universally. And so then we get this concept of whether it's companies, governments, oligarchs, billionaires, they don't operate on a nation basis. They don't even think that way. >> No, >> it is a global market. It's a global look at all the resources. Look at look at that gold mine over there. Oh, that New Zealand. Whoa. You know, it's >> all those rare earth metals, >> metals, whatever resources and humans, we're a resource. So, we're, you know, >> well, it's look >> like the matrix. >> Again, Billy Brown and I discussed this said, like, we can feed 40 to 50 million people in New Zealand. There's only 5 million of us. A country like China could decide to invade us and there is absolutely nothing that we could do to stop it. And that's forcible >> colonization. >> Hopefully we have some allies and that, you know, that wouldn't allow that to happen. >> But it's the thing. We we have got allies. We've traditionally had allies and yet we've got people in this country who hate those allies. >> Yes. >> And and we've got politicians and ex-politicians that are in the pocket of the CCP. And you see it all the time. They come out and make statements along a certain line. You can almost predict it that if there's something um happening about China, we're going to see >> three or four people come out and say something. Don Brash, John Key, Helen Clark, and a couple of others. In Australia, they've got, you know, Bob Carr, who they call Beijing Bob. You know, these are people that >> system isn't working. It's not working. >> These politicians have not had New Zealand's interests at at their heart. They've had their own interests and the interests of foreign countries at their heart. >> It's a culture in there, isn't it? >> You know, I think that um I've known some people that have gone into politics and in their heart they think they're doing the right thing. They want to help. Uh some people that get in there, they just do not have I'm sorry to say it. This is another thing you're not allowed to talk about. They do not have the education and the intelligence. >> They're not critical thinkers mostly. >> They don't know. >> They go on fields. Yeah. >> And that's that's the likes of Chloe Swbrook and people like that, >> you know, they they they're supposedly intelligent, but every time they open their mouth and speak >> for a global [snorts] organization, you know, I mean, they are the mouthpiece for a global organization. I mean, we could talk about uh global organizations cannot put stooges in to run for parliament, you know, I mean, I don't know how we do it. It goes against some of our values. So, this is one of the tricky things. So, in Sweden, and I used to think that they were doing it all wrong because we did it very differently in New Zealand. Uh so my the my daughter's first school which was in Panmure and they had a cultural day and it was a big celebration. They had 127 different cultures and I was like what >> and New Zealand was like culture is great. We have mai, we have sams, we have, you know, >> you see the politicians going along Diwali, you know, um, Chinese festivals, all sorts of things happening. The politicians are all there sucking up to all of these various different communities and abandoning the essence of what Kiwi culture is about. >> Yeah. We were all like, "Yeah, be you. Be who you are and celebrate your culture." Well, that wasn't what they did in Sweden, for example. They were like, "No, if you come here, you must acculturate to Swedish life. You must, you know, you must learn the language and you must you must assimilate into Swedish life." We didn't do that here. We did because obviously we're not going to say to Mai, "Well, no, you have to be no, you you have to leave all that behind." Early early stages of colonization, yes, that was the message. Maybe maybe >> when you you touched earlier on that about following rules and regulations and law abiding. Now I used to live in an apartment in Takaperna and across the road was an abandoned house. Then one Friday the windows were replaced. The entire house was painted um with three coats from top to bottom and the roof was sprayed and it was all done by a group of Chinese um clambering over the roof with ladders. No scaffolding, nothing like that, right? It was all done and dusted. So if you'd rung up and said, "Hey, look, there's some guys here working here that are are not perhaps following health and safety regulations, by the time the council systems ground into action and they turned up 3 weeks later, the job's done and the tenants have moved in." >> Exactly. And this is like a real life small example that many Kiwis >> Parts that though, like thumbming their nose at the law and going, "Yeah, whatever. We're just getting [ __ ] done, right?" Part of me admires that. >> But we no longer have a fair market. No, >> you know, if we have a competitive marketplace, it's no longer a fair competitive marketplace. Some competition is not >> You've either got to have one or the other. You either have complete competition and the market sorts it out or No, everybody's got to follow these rules. >> Yeah. >> Right. But you can't have both. >> So, we we had a a great example which I did report. Um, so we were renovating a house and there was another house in front and we tried to buy that one but we missed out at auction. The the the people who bought it, the builders came in and [snorts] they stripped everything out. So it was a 1920s railway cottage and they came in and they just took out everything inside. It was four walls and nothing. No framing inside. >> See, all the inside of that would have been Remu and stuff like that. Yeah. You know, >> but the thing is four walls. The roof the roof if you do like you try and build a house with cards and you put your four walls and you put the roof on that holds it together. >> Barely. Barely. And so we went in there uh and Steve who has traded he was a builder. He was like, "This is this could collapse any moment." They were not abiding by any building rules at all. Um, and then I did a property search. There was no building. There was no application. No permits. No, not even an application for a permit. And you're out there trying to make a go of it, trying to get ahead. You set up a business, you do the hard work, you abide by the law, you pay the fees, it's expensive, and then along comes someone next to you and they do not pay any fees. They do not buy abide by any laws. Um, >> well, there's a guy I know that he's passed now, so I can talk about it, but he he >> because he can't sue you. >> He wouldn't anyway, but he's Indian, right? and he was a property developer and his house that he had out um you know out by Mari there had a you know on a cliff with with down to a beach and the cliff was periodically eroding away as they do. Well, he spent a million dollars building a retaining wall in front of his house and then the council came and tried to stop him. um you know turned up with their clipboards and everything. I you need to stop these machines now. Oh yes. Okay. All right. And the council goes away. He carried on. He built the whole thing. Cost a million dollars. The council then said, "Oh, we're going to sue you cuz you didn't have resource consent." He says, "Oh, okay. Would you like me to pay your legal bills?" And they said, "Well, will you required to? Even if we the council's suing you for breaches, you have to pay the legal bills." Okay, no worries. He was fined $30,000. Right. >> Cost of doing business type of thing. >> Exactly. And plus the legal fees. So another couple of hundred. So a retaining wall for 1.2 million. And he ended up with it permitted in the end anyway without having to go through a process that was likely to be rejected. >> And he just did it. And there's this massive threetory high retaining wall. It's a it's you should see it. It's it's incredible. You can Google it. Look at Beachland's >> detaining wall. >> So our assumptions high trust, high compliance with the law and then a massive country India, masses of different cultures and ethnic groups living there and generally low compliance with the law. Not out of any kind of I'm not going to apply, you know, comply with the law, but because it's impossible and it's not monitored and it's not enforced. And that's what your submission is is saying. Yeah. We need to be careful. >> Very different. Also, it's highly competitive there. Uh you've got 1.4 million people. >> Billion. >> Billion. 1.4 billion. Yes. I got to say the million or the billion um billion people there and a lot of it is kind of very arid desert. I mean it's very very large country, lots of different areas. Uh it's highly competitive and they have they're a very old country as well been around a very long time. Um they they're for example I know there are over a million a million women who sit and roll bees. That is their only income. Bees are small handmade hand rolled cigarettes and Indian women sit in their homes and and they roll these for cents. That is the only income. So you don't have like a welfare system like we have. >> There's no welfare system at all. >> There's there's no net. >> There's work or die. >> Yep. And die they do. And so they come with a very very different intensity of competitiveness and >> and that overrides the Kiwi's natural slothlike behavior [laughter] in work. >> Pretty easygoing number eight wire. You know, >> I'm I work in a restaurant. Yeah. I serve about 10 tables a night versus I'll serve 400 tables a night. >> Yep. Yep. or we've got people arguing for a 4 day work week, you know, like in India, that's not how it works. It's it's there's so different. The histories are so different. The cultures are so different. There are definitely practices we do not want here. Okay. Now, we come to a problem for New Zealand. We have one law for all. We don't I know we don't have one law for all. We have some groups have >> there's a two-tiered law system depending on which group you're in. >> Yes. Two-tier. We do have a two-tier, but we have act in New Zealand first and we want one law for all. Everyone's equal under the law. That's what it was in the treaty of Wangi. That's what it said. We're all equal under the law. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Well, how are we going to start to say, uh, no, you can't be equal under our law because no, we have freedom of religion. So, what if they say, oh, that the pedophilia is part of their religion? Oh, how how are we going to be true to our Kiwi way? >> Well, we we won't be and and we'll just do what we always do and not talk about that. [laughter] >> We could do what Japan is doing. Yeah, >> you know, Japan, how amazing that they have managed to hang on to their culture. Uh, you you go to Japan, you're in a different country and it's a different culture and I love it. >> You're in their country. >> You're in their country. I love it. >> This is the thing you get people say, [snorts] you know, you get someone who comes to New Zealand, then they moan about something and then everyone goes, well, why don't you go home then? >> Well, our whole country is a country of immigrants. even Maria immigrants, right? Their their own their own uh faka papa, their own pepiha, the story of where they're from says they're from somewhere else. >> Well, I mean, you know, 240 years ago things were a little bit different. So, I don't consider that they were immigrants every you could say everywhere in the world that the humans moved. They moved. That's right. out of necessity and they looked for >> food shelter. >> We've got to find we don't agree anymore. We're going to go find somewhere else to live. So it's a little bit different but uh this we're going to we're there is a very high risk very high risk and we're starting to see it now uh where the Indian community in Oakland uh they're mobilizing they are strategizing to move into positions in local government and in government and look at the UK Okay. >> Well, we've just seen it in the local body elections. We had >> um the local body elections overturned >> because three candidates cheated. >> Yeah. >> And then got themselves reelected. >> Yeah. >> As well. >> Yeah. So I think I think many many Kiwis have no concept of the depth of fraud and corruption that some people will go to some people individuals. It's always like oh that person's ripped off their employer for 2 million. They've got a gambling problem. Oh right. It's only isolated cases maybe. But when you have people come from a very different culture, a very different historical background where it's almost a way of life like in Sweden, it's it's part of the way of life is how to avoid paying that huge amount of tax. You know, it's just Swedish >> figuring out how to avoid paying so much tax. But um in New Zealand, we don't think like that. And we have a lot of learning to do. We need a lot more awareness of that there are very different peoples still living in the world even though we might be able to talk online. Uh it's that talking past each other thing. >> So what you're not the same. >> So what you're really saying in your submission about the Indian FTA is that this is literally the thin end of the wedge that has been kicked into the door to keep it open. >> Well they just opened the faucet. If we think what has been happening was rapid, it it's going to be worse. When we have New Zealand Kiwi youth unable to get entry- level jobs, so they're not going to be able to get work experience and and then when they can't even get a job. >> There's a whole lot of factors apart from immigration and that there's over credentialization, you know, where you need to have a CV to be a trolley pusher at Countdown. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, come here and study here, fine. But no, you can't go and get jobs. >> No, because we need those jobs for our young people. >> And so, I think the immigration policies is going to have to be much tougher. I think I like Japan's uh actually Japan doesn't have like a quotota system, but I think we're going to have to have a quotota system. And [snorts] um I got asked by someone in the media the other day, well, how many how many is okay? what what level would I put on it? And I thought, well, who has contributed to the blend of Kiwi culture we have now? So, MAI, New Zealand, European, >> Pacific, >> Pacific. >> One of the things we've done, the New Zealand stats has always done is group minority groups. And this is one of the reasons why people haven't seen how many Indian, how many >> because it's classed as Asian. >> It's classed as a they group them all together. Well, they have to stop doing that. Um, and then if you look at Pacific, so they're our neighbors, they're our faro. Fiji, Samoa, Chonga would be where most people say that immigrants have come from. >> Cook Islands. There are seven. So, >> well, Cook Islanders are Kiwis by birth. >> Yeah. So, we have seven Pacific Island peoples who are grouped together under Pacifica. I looked at, well, how many sour? They're the largest group. How many are there of sour? Because a lot of Kiwis have [ __ ] papa to Pacific and Maldi and New Zealand European. They're part of this blended nation. We've >> take me. I was born in Fiji. >> Yep. >> And you're Kiwi? Yeah, >> a kiwi. What's a kiwi? Well, that's it's it's all of these people. All of these people who have blended what we are today, which is unique. So, Sam are about 4.8 say 5%. Uh well, if we're going to bring in another group and they're going to be a minority, they shouldn't go above sour because >> Yeah. So, it's it's a pratta. Yeah. Why why why do you have to get them all from one country? >> Well, I've got a friend and he said that our immigration um settings should be based on whether or not you are from a country that has had a team in the Rugby World Cup finals. [laughter] >> I don't know. >> So, so that's you know everyone who plays rugby basically countries that play rugby. So if you have a look at it, we've had France, Ireland, Wales, England, Scotland, uh New Zealand, obviously South Africa, um Canada, and a couple of other small Japan and Fiji and Samo is about it who've play who've be had a team in the Rugby World Cup. I said, "Why don't you include cricket?" He says, "No, we can't include cricket for obvious reasons." M [laughter] >> so so that's what he thinks the immigration policy should be and then maybe add on your level saying that they have to be a pro rata basis >> that you can't have a group come in that's going to supersede a large group a large minority in New Zealand you know in a matter of years. >> Yeah. So it's it's both that it's the >> how many and the pace at which it happens must be controlled. So, uh, I don't want to see our youth and their needs, you know, like a Kiwi youth that needs a job is planning to live here for life. They're going, you know, kids build a home, buy a home. Um, a student who comes here to get a degree, they have very different economic needs. They may have to send money home, but um very different needs. So yeah, they'll work for minimum wage. >> Yeah. >> Um and they're probably the just it's just the differences and we need to look at how to protect New Zealand, protect our Kiwi culture, and for the future of our kids. Um, we didn't we're going to run out of time, but uh I just would encourage everybody to read Professor um Elizabeth Rat's submission as well >> and and her papers and everything she's trying to warn people about >> um and the the bicesentennial of the tit of Wangi and Tati Mai and the uh radical Mai lobbyists and their plan to for WI sovereignty for for sovereignty to be handed back >> reverse colonization. >> Yes, in a way. Well, it's just they do I've worked in MAI health for over 30 years. I've traveled a lot around New Zealand. I know a lot of the met a lot of these people. Um that's the plan. It is the matrix. We're all going to be plugged in and sucked dry. We're we're an energy source >> like power. We're also an energy source. And um people need to wake up that >> they need to not only just wake up but wake up and speak up. >> Wake up, speak up. Um join New Zealand first or join, you know, join a political party, meet people who think like you, who are concerned like you. uh find each other and get your confidence back, understand and the media >> and take the warnings that we're seeing from overseas >> cuz it's coming here. >> Yeah. I mean now when I go if I go I went just went to London in December and it's not the same. You worry, you know, but and then my I took my daughter with me and she went off on train here and there and she's going on. I'm like, I'm freaked out all the time. I'm on life 360. Where is she? Are you okay? You know, you can't take your Kiwi trusting nature overseas anymore. Uh you need to learn how to protect yourself, how to watch out for, >> you know, it's shame, but that's the way the world is going. Um and now we didn't talk about these. >> Well, you brought those along. We've got a few minutes left. What are these? I know what they are. Yeah, >> I use them. >> Well, lucky are you because they're banned. I mean, you can bring in in for your you can import for your own use. >> Yeah. So, [snorts] these these are oral nicotine pouches for >> Yeah. >> if people aren't aware of what they are. >> Struggle with the whole child safety thing. I'll let you open it. Uh so, that was a real shame. Uh it's really really fantastic that New Zealand first repealed the disastrous um law that got pushed through under Adurn and >> that was Asia Verl again a fifth Cong see I can't even get into it now [laughter] >> that yeah see proof that the child safety mechanism works but the oral nicotine pouches were that was part of the legislation and they took took it out. They banned them. So, they were selling on the market here. Um, we've been left access to the heated tobacco product, which is expensive, and most people >> it's impossible to get them. [laughter] >> Most people uh who smoke are still in the lower income brackets. >> Yeah. So, vaping has been fantastic. >> Here we go. I've done it. >> Thank you. So, we only have vaping. Sweden, which is now crossed the 5%. >> Um, they snooze, don't they? >> That's the snooze if you want to open that, which is very different. >> But they also have the oral nicotine pouches. So, this is a little pouch. People put it up under their lip. Um, it just has cellulose fiber with nicotine in it and maybe flavoring. On the continuum of risk of harm, not actual harm, but risk of harm, these sit way down the end next to the nicotine patch and gum. So these on that continuum of risk, these are way down the end on lowest risk. So say 98% safer. >> See, nicotine, this is what people need to understand, right? I I researched this after I had a stroke. And I found that there are multiple studies that show that uh strokes occur mainly because of a lack of neuroplasticity where you get brittleleness in your in your brain and you get blood pressure is increased for whatever reason and then something breaks and that's what happened to me. But nicotine is the single substance or chemical that gives you the biggest boost to increasing neuroplasticity. And so when I had my stroke, I thought, well, I need to solve this problem, right? Well, how do I do it? I didn't want to smoke cigarettes, right? I like smoking cigars because it's just nicotine, right? Yes, there's tobacco being burnt, but there's not all the chemicals that are in in cigars that are in cigarettes. But the the best thing like these because there's almost nothing in there that's harmful except nicotine, but that's not even harmful either. And I actually don't think nicotine is that addictive. >> The the this is the traditional snooze. >> And it does it is um powdered pasteurized tobacco. Yes. >> Pasteurizing is like >> But you're not smoking it. [snorts] No, there's no combustion. >> Yeah, >> but it is um it's not as low on the risk continuum as these. There's no tobacco at all, but it it it definitely contributed to Sweden getting very very low smoking rates. And then when these came along, these have been very popular with women because they don't have the the brown. Yeah. >> Um and >> so Sweden has now reached 4.8% 8% smoking prevalence. Um >> well, Japan's had a massive um reduction [snorts] there, but that's via vaping or heated tobacco products, >> just that they only have the heated tobacco products, but they have again like New Zealand, a very rapid drop in people smoking cigarettes. So, the 5% um goal was originally just made up, pulled out of a hat, aspirational goal, and we're sitting at 6.8% 8% smoking prevalence and that has stalled. There are two reasons it's stalled. One is all of the lies about the risks of vaping and that's our tobacco control mates. >> Yep. >> That are lying and they're telling everybody, "Or >> nicotine's incredibly addictive." Well, I can tell you I smoke cigars and I use nicotine pouches and I can stop them in five minutes. You know, I I don't actually think it's that addictive, but you're the scientist. You tell me. >> It's all addiction or dependency depends on the method of administration. So, how fast is the nicotine getting to the brain and dose? So, a nicotine patch, I'm pretty sure a lot of people would would, if they've ever tried the nicotine patch, you struggle to even remember to put it on. >> Yeah. you know, it falls off and you don't even know it's fallen off. The dose is so low. So, it it's a matter of dose and administration and >> there's also habit forming, isn't there? If you're smoking and putting your hand up cigarette, it becomes a habit. You need to have that habit met somehow. >> Yeah. So, the frequent so there's a number of things. It's the statements that are put out are just sort of blanket, you know, statements because public health believe that the public are dumb. So, you have to make it very simple. So, you come up with a simple message. Oh, no, you can't get into all of this nuance and oh, dose and telling them this and that. No, they won't understand that because they're dumb and we've just got to tell them what to do. So, they just go it's addictive and then that's what runs. So, the lies, the misinformation about vaping. I met a mom uh who has adult sons and I was saying, you know, when I say what I've done and they go, "Oh, about vaping. Oh, that that's now we've got vaping. That's as bad, isn't it?" And I'm like, "No, it isn't." And it's 95% safer. And you know, she had cried. She her the fact that her adult son was vaping led her to tears. This is people shouldn't be crying. You know, if if someone stops smoking and they're vaping, this is something like, "Yay! Good on you, mate. This is wonderful. Hang in there. Don't go back to smoking. Keep vaping if you have to, you know." Well, we had another product. Now, this is going off around the world. And it gives people who don't like vaping or have been put off vaping another option >> and this has been banned. So, under the coalition agreement, they did say that they would repeal uh the ban on oral nicotine products. I'm still waiting. And the little girl waits. Um >> I remember those heads. [laughter] >> So, yeah, I just just wanted to um you were talking about it with Billy, so I thought >> Yeah, but these things here like they they hit you with the nicotine like a sledgehammer, >> do they? Oh, yeah. >> Well, it depends on the you know, >> it depends on the dose. the those uh Zen. So, I've got a few packets of those different flavors in there. That's the one I prefer. Um you have that pouch in there for 10 minutes and you're getting the the what I call the nicotine lows that you get from when you smoke a cigar, right? You get so much nicotine it lowers your blood sugars and um you start like like if you're smoking a cigar, you start gasping going, "Oh god, I don't know if I can get through this." And then if you have a glass of coke or something like that, boom, you've got your blood sugars back up. But nicotine lowers your blood sugars really quickly. And so you feel that sledgehammer come in. That's [laughter] But um once you get used to it, it's fine. And you don't need to have it as often as you would have cigarettes. So you might use two or three patches a day instead or two or three pouches a day, >> whereas you'd smoke a packet of cigarettes in a day. Well, if so, if you're helping somebody um to quit smoking cigarettes, then having a range of uh the milligrams, >> you know, helps to match the product, make it more effective. >> But um the most common u milligram that sells in the US is the 6 milligram. >> Yeah. Not the three. >> The three is that still get you >> popular as well, but the six is not very much. the nine and a halfs they really give you [laughter and gasps] >> Yeah. I mean I think that is in our legislation. There was a limit. >> Yeah. >> Um and >> but I mean it's ridiculous that it was banned and it was was banned for no good reason. >> Well, if we we would we could have got to 6%. >> Yeah. >> If people need Look, one thing is not going to work for everybody. There are three products. The heated tobacco product, the oral nicotine pouches. In fact, I don't think we even need the snuss anymore because this is this is going to displace that. >> Yeah, >> that has to be >> they're more appealing. Um, >> this will will displace those >> and vaping is displacing smoking. Um, but so we need that and then we should see another drop down and we could get there. Yep. Um, everyone wanted to know how did New Zealand do it? This is amazing what we've managed to achieve. And then it stalled. And it is as if the people in public health and in tobacco control wanted it to fail. They wanted it. >> Well, of course they wanted to fail. I agree with that. >> Well, it wasn't their idea. >> No. No. But also they they their income is dependent on there being people smoking. >> Yeah. And if we stop people smoking, there's no need for us to give the Boyd Swinburns and the um other tobacco anti-tobacco like Janet Hoke and all of these people. There's no need to give them tens of millions of dollars in research money anymore to stop people smoking. We've solved that problem. >> Yeah. >> Right. And and this is what I said to the select committee more than 10 years ago. I said there's 750,000 smokers in New Zealand. That's what it was back then. And 10 years before that, there were 750,000 smokers. So, you're not actually stopping these these smoking cessation programs that don't work because you've still got the same numbers. And if it is so bad for health and is so bad for all these things, just ban it outright. Why don't you do that? Well, they won't because they're addicted to the $1.5 billion of tax. >> Well, I don't agree with prohibition. >> Neither do I. It doesn't work. Effects as >> cannabis is prohibition and it's freely available anywhere you care to look. >> Yeah. The well you have an illicit market and Australia has done the opposite to New Zealand on this on this whole thing and they prohibition >> and now nearly the whole tobacco cigarette market is is with gangs organized crime. Not when I say gangs we think of New Zealand gangs. No, it's organized crime. international organized crime and I see that Casey Castella has did they've just put some funding towards um because that organized crime is now looking okay we've got Australia wrapped up let's take New Zealand >> to a tobacco control um conference in Singapore in 2012 and I meet all these guys from customs >> in wouldn't have let you in you know >> no it was really interesting right and um talking to these customs guys in sing in Hong Kong and things like that. They weren't even touching the surface. And back there in 2012, they were saying if you put taxes up too high, you end up like Bhutan where where eventually the tobacco becomes so expensive that it attracts the criminal elements to undercut the market and you end up having the the tobacco market completely and utterly taken over by criminal organized organized criminal gs. And what do we find now in in Australia where they went down the prohibition, where they banned vaping, where they banned um pouches, all of that sort of thing, and ratcheted up the tobacco taxes. >> 50% of tobacco consumed in Australia now is elicit tobacco. >> I think it's probably even more. >> That's what they admit to. >> Yeah. So we have we had the ram raids here and I did research on that and >> that's cuz tobacco was more expensive than weed. We got the change of government and they repealed the the prohibition way it was going and um but over in Australia the shops are being firebombed. >> Yeah. >> Firebombed is like shootouts and you know we dodged a bullet there. >> No we haven't dodged it. We've just postponed it [laughter] cuz you can go to any number of places like K Road South Oakland in particular. Most [snorts] of the cigarettes that are in those shops now are illicit tobacco cigarettes. And >> that's a compliance issue, right? >> That's right. There's very few people that are checking on it. And but again, everything's manipulated. They talk about the number of sticks, right? That and they do that for a reason. There's 20 sticks in a pack. >> So they don't talk about packets of cigarettes or cartons of cigarettes. They talk about individual sticks because it sounds like massive numbers. So they go, "Oh, we've confiscated 10 million sticks of tobacco at the border." >> Right? >> Well, how many cartons is that? It's a pallet, >> right? It's not a lot, >> but that's what they say. So, we've got all of these statistics and all of these people that are agitating for particular outcomes, but those outcomes are are designed to put money into their pockets. >> Yes. So you know public health smoking was just one thing. It was the leading cause of preventable cause [clears throat] >> of >> many illnesses, >> diseases and premature death. So that's why I chose to work on that one because that was the leading one. We're not it's not going to be the leading one going into the future. there's be a bit of a lag because diseases set in and you know there will be a bit of a lag >> but I think it's time that we can start to reorient some of the money that is going into control >> into addressing obesity and diabetes. >> It's exactly what I was going to say and guess who one of the biggest agitators uh against tobacco was Boyd Swinburn. And what is he doing now? anti-obesity has always been his he wasn't >> but he's always yes but he always helped push the anti-tobacco stuff >> but the tactics that he uses around obesity are exactly the same as the tactics he you that others have used against tobacco and that is demonization labeling of companies people associated with that and all those sorts of things and they use it they don't now talk about big food right instead of tobacco. >> Well, they do. >> So, some of those people who have been in the tobacco, anti-tobacco um health sector are now migrating across into into obesity and those things and taking the exact same tactics. And I spoke at a at a conference of the food and grocery council 10 more than 10 years ago and I said, "You guys are all laughing about how the tobacco industry is being attacked by these public health scientists. You're next." >> Yeah. >> Right. cuz when they solve the smoking problem, they still have jobs to do. And so they're going to they're going to pivot and they're going to pivot on any of you use sugar or use carbohydrates or use anything that they decide is bad, they're coming after you. So you all need to stick together and they all ignored me. >> Yeah. So the framework convention on tobacco control which is world health organization um treaty the first health treaty and it's just maybe about 2012 or around about that time the head of that secretariat said we need to start looking beyond tobacco and we have the framework and then we can just pivot >> and that's what they're doing >> and use the same framework to address alcohol consumption gambling bling etc. And that is what they are doing. Um work is actually underway to establish a framework convention on alcohol like a separate one whereas this the head of the framework convention on tobacco control just wanted to expand the brief um use these behaviors are not the same. I object to you can't just go after alcohol consumption at the same way we and do what we did to tobacco. They're different. >> But they are trying that because we're seeing it >> at the council level with the police as well, just opposing things because >> yes, >> there's no science behind it. There's no evidence behind it. They just don't like it. >> Yeah. So now the Ministry of Health um because their puppet masters World Health Organization they now say there is no safe level of alcohol consumption. >> That's [ __ ] >> I mean that's that's a zero goal. That's what they did with this. Yeah. >> They don't want anybody they've pivoted from tobacco to nicotine, you know. So they don't want anybody they don't want the plant tobacco. They don't. But you can make synthetic. So they've pivoted. Tobacco control has pivoted to no. No, you can't even use nicotine. >> Yeah. No safe levels of nicotine. >> Yep. Zero. So a zero goal on tobacco or nicotine consumption worldwide. And they have a zero goal. They don't call it a zero goal, but it is >> uh a zero goal on alcohol. So because well, okay, that that we're running out of money there. So, let's go after alcohol. >> Yes, there's harm. Different sorts of harm. There is harm and that is a public health issue. But you don't just go zero goal. We're going to have zero deaths on the road, zero accidents, zero carbon, zero zero. And that is coming from a prohibitionary approach. >> These are just make work schemes. >> Yeah. for for for people who who have got Nazi tendencies of being the fun police. >> Eugenics, >> it's based a lot of public health is based on the eugenics. [snorts] >> That's a whole another episode that [laughter] >> eugenics was Yeah. Well, but Hitler, right? >> Yeah. >> Purity of race and these people are flawed and then we're back to racism. [laughter] >> We've gone full circle via tobacco control. >> Thank you, Cam. Anyway, [gasps] talking [laughter] we've run out of time now, but uh look, we'll get you back and talk about um tobacco control when other things come up because it is going to keep coming up and uh and those tactics are going to keep getting used. And if you know about them, then you can say, uh I see what you're doing there. >> Yeah, I keep wondering like where are all the psychologists? All through lockdown, all through everything and all the propaganda, everything that's happening. Where are the psychologists? There's Jordan Peterson. There's Gad. Where are our psychologists? Why aren't they warning people and teaching people about propaganda and brainwashing? >> This is not rocket science. You know, the there there are particular people who have written books about this. Yeah. >> Right. Unfortunately, some people >> they're not teaching that in universities anymore. No, >> I don't think they don't teach, do they? Anyway, Mar, [laughter] it's been a real pleasure to have you have you on the show and uh and we'll we'll have some further discussions and and episodes later. >> Okay. Thank you, Cam. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Hey, now welcome to the show where the wind's blowing strong and the truth can flow. This is the good oil. Catch a vibe today with Count Slater leading us all the way from the