Managing Addiction,Anxiety and stress with Addiction Counsellor Pithon Njuguna.

It's easy as well to self diagnose and say I'm depressed. But then what are the telltale signs that you're battling mental health issues that now extends to things like coping mechanisms where drug, alcohol and substance abuse comes into play. When you look at issues like anxiety and depression, the most of them result from maybe each and every daily encounters or circumstances that you go through as a human being. How do you seek help? And our guest who's joining us live in studio is going to help us unpack this conversation. I'm being joined live in studio by Peter Jaguna. He's an addiction counselor. Great to have you and good morning. >> Good morning. >> Right. So maybe let's get to like understand in a bigger panoramic picture when why first of all why is it conversations around mental health are usually covered or laced with stigma? For example, somebody is struggling and they end up doing the worst like taking their lives. to think a recent example stupid boy. He was outgoing. He was an outgoing personality. He was in the entertainment music industry. He was doing a lot in terms of him being visible on social media. But look how it ended for him. Why is it lays with a lot of stigma especially in the current world we living today. >> Thank you. Uh it's a very interesting topic to start with and most of the time it's very very hard to come out clean on how you're battling the issues that you're dealing with with unspoken battles to be in specific. For instance, now with depression, it's very very hard for someone to like fully understand cuz for instance, now in the normal days, how we are living, everyone expects it's okay to be sad. >> But now in depression, we always have that persistent sadness. Day in day out, people tend to think he's changing, isn't he? He's trying to leave us. is trying to adjust but story by story he or she she's going down. >> Yeah. >> Uh let me ask you before an issue or let's say you've used the word battle before what you're going through escalates to now a coping mechanism where alcohol and drug abuse comes into play. What is usually the bigger underlying problem before now you start acting out and using substances or abusing them >> to cope? >> Okay. So most of the issues where we start with we always start with childhood issues. >> Mhm. >> The [clears throat] most unresolved issues from childhood, >> right? >> That's why we start. >> Uh-huh. Especially now let's say from uh let's say in childhood maybe one of the caregivers was calleding you or was being harsh mean >> so those moment they keep on playing >> and now for the instant you get now the acute stress where now you act the body activates it fight or flight mode >> fight or flight mode. Okay. So if the same action continues and continues happening day in day out, it continues now into the chronic stress right and now the chronic stress itself it disregulates the part of the brain especially now the prefrontal cortex which is >> now which is supposed now to regulate the emotions and feelings. >> Mhm. >> And now now if we dive into depression it's a mood disorder. Oh, so depression is a mood disorder. >> Mood disorder. >> Okay. >> Mhm. >> So now after going through all the stages, you're now at the chronic stress, you're battling with it. Now the depression itself, that's why it starts building up, >> right? And now the first I would say for someone to be diagnosed or to be fully diagnosed with depression, you need at least five symptoms. >> Mhm. What are the symptoms? >> Persistent sadness >> for at least uh continuously for 2 weeks or longer. Loss of interest in activities that you love, >> right? >> For a period of 2 weeks longer, which it doesn't have to break. >> Mhm. >> There is fatigue, >> right? >> Poor sleeping patterns. >> Some tend to sleep more hours. Some tend to have insomnia. >> Yeah. >> And now there is the loss of appetite. >> Mhm. >> Yep. So among these issues like loss loss of passion or loss of interest started loss of interest. What could likely trigger that in a person that you'd say but you've you've you you know you're a professional. You're an expert at this. You've said at least for two for two weeks these signs are consistent and prominent. then you're likely to be diagnosed of depression but it's easier to say bro I feel depressed why we do a lot of self diagnosis but you've given these symptoms loss of interest maybe you're changing passion or you're changing trajectories to profession can it be a sign of depression too you mentioned fatigue I feel like everybody goes through fatigue after you work for a very long time without rest they say work with no play makes jack you know right Um you said as well uh you mentioned yes you mentioned stress stress is also a contributor to depression too >> right but everybody goes through uh stress on a daily life. Yeah. So what makes this equitable to depression and then how how what's the next step that you pick up after you're diagnosed with all these things cuz they sound like everybody's going through this on a daily. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Let me start by making it now how it's different especially now start with fatigue. >> Okay. >> The moment now we at a stage of now chronic stress before start developing into depression >> chronic stress. Okay. >> There is certain uh symptom that happens in our bodies. Our bodies are like a smartphone. >> Mhm. >> When like you don't have enough storage it will give you a notification. At the same time when you're going through certain emotions unresolved ones >> stress your body will give you signs and symptoms and now the point of when you depression most of the time for us we take it as normal at the shoulders in the morning hours you feel you got pain you always think it's normal >> but it's our body telling us we are not okay Right? >> Whatever you always say is the brain whispers before it screams. >> The brain whispers before it screams. Okay. >> It will give you signs. >> Mhm. >> It will show you. But very indirectly, it's very very hard to tell, >> right? >> Cuz most of us, we don't pay attention to that. >> Mhm. >> What I think is maybe my shoulders has I feel pain. Maybe it's because uh my sleeping position post >> maybe at work >> we tend to ignore whatever I'm feeling what I'm going through >> right >> and uh the other part I've heard that you have mentioned is the loss of interest maybe because you might try to adjust to new activities but when we are doing these things we move them step by Yeah. >> For depression. >> Mhm. >> You tend to leave everything. >> Okay. >> If I was hanging out with friends, I can solve the plans. >> But that could be a rain check. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Could be a rain check for another day. >> Mhm. >> Right. What makes it a sign of mental health awareness? >> It happens cuz what if you cancel the same same event or the plans for more than five times consecutive, >> right? Is it the reason you're citing or why you're counseling or or you're taking a rain check? That's a sign of depression. >> It's because now you don't want someone who is close. For someone who is close to you, they tend to give you more attention. >> Okay? Let's say like for a close friends who we have they tend to tell you use myself as an example pedon you're not okay >> since I know like my friend will be brutally honest with me >> I'll try to cut him or her off >> right >> and that's why >> that's avoidance as as a coping mechanism >> y >> okay >> so most of the time you tend to find for depression it has now are co-orbidity. >> Mhm. Combidity meaning underlying other issues that contribute to it. >> Yeah. Like you have a disease and now it results to another one. >> You have a bed. >> So it's a novel that develops and builds up on another. But also let me ask you for the purposes of clarity. What is the difference now between depression and anxiety? How do you decipher a person is anxious or now it has developed or combinated to depression? >> Mhm. Okay, that's a very very good question. For depression, I would say it's more of mood. So it it's more about the mood. For anxiety, it's the fear. For humans, it's very very okay for us to be anxious. But if it tends to have normal or okay, >> it's okay for both. >> It's okay. I would say >> okay >> for better news okay >> okay >> mhm >> it's okay to be anxious >> but if it keeps on coming on >> it has some few patterns >> Mhm. >> triggers now that's why it now moves from being okay to now a mental health condition. >> Mhm. >> So you said depression is more of mood. Yeah. >> But uh anxiety is more of fear. Are those like the main major signs of uh the both of the spectrum, >> right? You mentioned sadness. What could because when you lose when you lose a gig, you're likely to be sad or angry. Those are like the immediate common reflex reactions. Uh when you lose someone, you are definitely going to be sad and also angry, aggravated, and just irritable. Um how do you how can you tell that a person's sadness is resulting into depression and also might contribute to anxiety without uh making it like a normal life event cuz on a daily you can meet somebody who had breaks you it was a relationship that went there's that period in fact we say you mourn the relationship and then boom it's common in fact on a dust is constant it's K yeah >> so how do you put that into perspective >> just normal All sadness. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So on that I would say uh the for instance now people let's say now going the same same thing. Mhm. For like depression allow me to start with that and now we go to the anxiety how cuz I want to bring now connection between how they are related and intertwined. Mhm. For people now going the same same thing for depression most of the time you find them like now the sadness part of it it's like now a coping itself like coping mechanism and we all have different reaction for us men and ladies we are different when you're depressed >> okay >> for ladies you tend to find guilty the persistent and sadness and now being overwhelmed. >> Oh, so guilt, >> guilt, sadness and then being overwhelmed. >> Yeah. The negative those like so overwhelming. >> Mhm. >> For men now this where now the society takes it allow me to maybe to put in this. >> Yeah, please go ahead. >> The society brings it now in another form. For a man who was known to be calm, understanding, he starts being aggressive. >> Yeah. >> You see, he's battling something and now the issue that he's carrying, he's now projecting them >> indirectly. >> Mhm. >> Maybe to the partner, to the friends or to the family. >> Yeah. The kids specifically. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. And that's why you find most of the cases you find them >> like for instance now here in Kenya you find for someone who now has dived into addiction >> right >> you find now the kid maybe went to the shop >> Mhm. >> he was [clears throat] to come back with a balance of like like >> 50 bob but maybe he or she lost it >> and you find it cuz the parent is going through something in the relationship or in the marriage. >> Yeah. It has been quite overwhelming. You find it that he or she ends up beating the child or doing something much worse. >> Yeah. And let me ask you Pam on a daily an average Kenyan let's use Gen Z what is the what why are they likely to go through depression and anxiety what are the circumstances and and events that if you were to study as a professional and also maybe in in your work or in your line of duty the people that you met uh what are the circumstances or the events that always landed them into this monster of depression and anxiety in a daily average household of a Kenyan. >> Well, let me start with the childhood part before now we get into the adolescence and now into the adulthood. >> Yes. For now the childhood part I remember let me use a very very good example. There are teachers who used to be harsh. >> Yeah. >> You see there are certain allow me maybe to use uh the math teacher for an example. >> He would enter the class shorts mob. >> Yeah. >> So for instance now the math teacher walked in you find like almost four five kids >> Mhm. >> they start having anxiety >> right >> you see. >> Mhm. >> You see now the teacher has inflicted that fear right the fear itself now it's constant it start developing. M >> now if you start having a trigger the moment that teacher walks in works works as the trigger for the anxiety >> right >> now you find it is very very hard now for the student >> to focus >> now from school you go home >> mhm >> here's the parent why you feeling mad >> you see and let's say he or she has other siblings the parent will start being like you know your sister is passing. She she's doing well. >> Why you not doing this? >> Yeah. But those are right questions to ask. By the way, I don't see anything wrong in the questions. >> Mhm. >> Uh-huh. Why are they making the child anxious? >> Mhm. >> See, they are the right questions, but I uh something we always say, it's not the words that hurt, it's the tone. >> Oh, it's the tone. >> Yep. >> Nice. Okay. Interesting. >> Cuz I might say something in a different tone and you take it positive thing. >> Right? >> If I say it in a different tone, it will hit deeper be like a knife. >> So more math there's a there's a possibility most uh math teachers were brutal or you've used the word harsh. they were harsh in their format or their style of teaching and that's why a lot of young people developed maybe resentment and fear and now the anxiety from the math teacher but you know math teachers always give a target so if you get below 50% >> so I I think also the categorizing of it really maybe messed up people you are considered a failure right if you're below the pass mark yeah >> okay I think I'm beginning to get the picture now right of where that anxious or the anxiety comes in. Okay, go ahead. Now we had now at the point now the students at home >> now [clears throat] the child he or him or her now with the parents they start now asking the questions you see the first time it's always okay what's happening we'll give you the resources you need this book it's okay take it but now when the student now in this class you see now the teacher he or she is working as a trigger to focus when now the anxiety is very very high. It's very very hard to focus >> very hard. Now for this student find him or her she's there just she's just physically there but psychologically she's not paying attention. >> Mhm. >> Cuz now fear is what is controlling. Now the body itself it's in fight or flight mode >> right >> and it cannot do it cannot multitask listen to the teacher >> now who [clears throat] acts as a trigger >> right >> and now be able to do now the maths >> this is what you're supposed to do to it down >> right >> the brain is focused on there is a threat >> m so it's the freeze of light. >> Mhm. >> Right. Okay. >> From now at that point we move now maybe from let's say the now this this let me use as an example let me use myself pedon is in grade five now you're moving to grade six with a different teacher. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. Now who is more welcoming more friendly? You see back then in let's say in grade five we had this teacher there are some who used maybe and are used to maybe saying you know you don't do this you're not good you can't do this and that will now bring the self-esteem low and low and no >> for the students >> right >> and that's how you find when now the self-esteem is low >> now the kids start now even seeing him or herself. >> Yeah. >> Being maybe worthless, feeling like am I really worthy? And now when he or she starts to question him or herself >> is that now bringing doubts so many doubts and at this stage the still now the child is still developing. >> Yeah. And now what happens now when we have now the chronic strength it changes now the brain itself the brain changes. >> Uhhuh. >> So the way you process things also now starts >> depending on how I think is it called disregulation or regulation? >> Disregulation. >> Disregulation. Yeah. Okay. So it changes and it starts now focusing now on either freeze, fight or flight. >> Yep. >> All right. So let me ask you what are the early signs of an adult uh of some of these uh issues mental health underlying issues cuz you said there could be there's it's actually no a novelty coorbidities uh anxiety maybe has maybe grown from maybe stress or it started with stress anxiety now it's depression now it's more chronic and now it's an issue maybe what are the early signs of a daily average Kenyan that they're going through a mental health crisis and how do they start coping up with it? And also maybe you can loop in when they start acting out as a coping mechanism where they're resulting to things like um drinking too much alcohol cuz they always warn you in the adverse they say excessive consumption of these product is harm to your harmful to your health. They are smoking weed a lot which I think it's common. The other day I think we were looking at a statistic during Mandam Manu most university students who are ingesting weed so that they don't feel the pungent smell of tear gas while they're protesting. Uh others get even addicted to social media is also part of another addiction too. What are the early signs? When does it escalate to now acting out and coping up and how do you manage it? Mhm. Now connecting it with addiction. Every person start with a very very simple stage which is called experimentation stage. >> Experimentation. Okay. >> In addiction where you start maybe you take the first sip of alcohol or the first puff of that cigar or that marijuana maybe with friends. Now for the brain it has its own processes. The first time we see and then we record the data itself. Yeah. >> After recording now it's stored and now we start reproducing itself. Now we will try to imitate the action. The last stage itself is now performing the action itself. And that's why you find most of the cases the first time you try add maybe an addiction or you're trying the first >> sip you notice your friends maybe they're taking uh the common name >> now the time you'll be alone you'll do the same same thing. >> Mhm. You see the brain has already already recorded the same same pattern. >> Yeah. >> And now maybe coming now to the mental health now for depression and anxiety especially. Let me allow me maybe to start with anxiety. There are people who don't talk a lot when they are sober. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. You see there's something you call now social anxiety. >> Mhm. Social anxiety. >> Mhm. >> Mhm. where like you don't you fear being negatively judged by other people. >> Yeah. >> But the moment you're intoxicated, >> right? >> Alcohol gives you something we call forced confidence. >> Yeah. >> That's when Yeah. like you're involved in reckless behavior. >> Yeah. >> And you don't even >> rational choices and decisions are made when people are drunk. >> Yeah. >> But they say they tell the truth a lot when they're drunk compared to when they're sober. That's >> what saying >> the reason that happens a lot >> because now alcohol itself acts as a depressant. >> Yes. >> It represents your body and at that point that's when you find now the when intoxicated with alcohol most of the emotions will blow up. >> That's why you find most of the people who don't express themsel fully when they are sober. Mhm. >> Let them take few sips of alcohol >> or smoke their >> Mhm. >> their weed. >> They just tell you everything. Whoever wronged them last year, last month, >> right? >> Whoever took his or her money, >> anything. >> Mhm. >> They just tell you it blank blankly like point, >> right? Is that a negative trajectory of life? If you're dealing with life crisis >> as um as a counselor. >> Yeah. Because if this person can't even function, I call them high functioning people. Yeah. Like they can't really function normally at their cho at their chores or the responsibilities while in the sober mind. They have to adjust and have some dopamine, you know, in the mental a little high. Is it a good thing? >> Like you are drunk. Mhm. >> Yeah. Than like you are sober. >> Mhm. >> Well, something I would say about that is we tend to focus on one positive thing and we ignore the nine negative things that are coming due to intoxication of the substance. >> Mhm. >> The one thing is you tend to find the temporary happiness. You see, but now we come with the feeling of like the next day you'll have the hangovers. >> Yeah. You'll be judging yourself. What did I do yesterday? >> How how do they think of me? >> Yeah. Like you start questioning yourself time by time, second by second. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. And now after uh there is now we at the part of anxiety where like you're intoxicated sometimes you tend to the anxiety tends to wear off. >> Mhm. you're confident enough. >> Yeah. When you're sober or high. >> Mhm. >> All right. Okay. >> Now, at the point where it becomes now a bit, I would say, risky, it's when now you get the panic attacks now in anxiety. >> M >> cuz most of us we tend not to understand on how panic attacks happen. >> Yeah. >> Especially for us men. >> Yeah. I've I once experienced a panic attack but way back it was at an audition where you know I didn't know who were there and when I saw when I entered the venue I realized it was some bigger celebrities. It was actually on a film in TV but my kind of panic attack was maybe yeah since you're a counselor was I'm just extremely nervous. I'm losing my lines. I don't know what I'm going to say when I when I step in front of the camera that time because it was a film audition. It was a script. Yeah. and you had to bring out that character and role. So I'm pacing up and down. I'm punting. I'm sweating. I'm literally everywhere. I can't settle and I'm so irritable. So for me, that was my panic attack. Yeah. >> But then for a normal person, how do they how do they show up that contribute to mental health crisis? >> We always start with something the heart palpitations. They're so hard. >> Your heart beats faster. >> Very very fast. >> And you start sweating now. Uh-huh. >> And now some the like the muscle >> shaking. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And now the shortness of breath. >> Yeah. That's why you take a lot of [gasps] >> Yeah. >> Mhm. And now some when it's very very severe, confusion kicks in. >> I lost my lines. Just like I said, I can't remember the lines and I have to act those lines. Yes. >> Mhm. And now maybe allow me maybe to go a bit >> okay >> on the current society especially let's not go too far let's give it an example at here to go up a CBD >> let's say for someone who has a panic attack you'll find someone who is sitted down shaking >> crying let's say if it's a lady and most of us in society or in the current situation we' be thinking we are Yeah, >> we just assume. >> We just assume. >> But at the end of the day, people are bing so many things outside here, >> right? >> Mhm. >> But my question was, when does it when do you now start acting out to a point you're resorting to things? Cuz you mentioned, you explained a place where self-confidence, alcohol gives you self-confidence. But then what triggers that part where now I can't deal with the reality of this situation. I have to find something to hide it. Yeah. Yeah. You could also call it masking. Yeah. What triggers a person to go to that level and how do you help them as a professional when they're seeking maybe if they've not even sought help or they have to seek help or they're seeking help. How do you work with them in that journey of seeking help? >> The first thing uh let me start with how we do our things. Maybe at an institution there at sober homes we always it's always okay to ask for help. It doesn't mean that you're weak. Seeking that help doesn't mean that you're weak with this. Uhhuh. And >> yes, go ahead. >> Okay. Thank you. So for for someone who is battling like maybe the depression itself, there are signs where like maybe the self harm Mhm. For someone who tends to have now the suicidal thoughts, they tend to come like when they tend to have those suicidal thoughts on and off on and off. >> Mhm. >> It's high time maybe as a family member or a friend cuz when they're intoxicated or they under the influence of substance, it's very very hard for them to convince them you're not going to the right path. they won't make that decision cuz that's when we say like alcohol and substances they make you have they tend to make you have the impaired judgment. You can't make the right decision. At this point, it's very very hard for an individual to notice that it's going over boom cuz one thing is we always tend to even if you go to the normal locos the denasi they tend to say I'm happy at the end of the day but at what cost? >> Yeah. So uh the question was how do you tell correct me if I'm wrong the signs the first signs like how do you tell this is like completely going in another direction or it's not supposed to head for certain point if you feel like if you see like a family member or a loved one has started like being withdrawn was that time cuz currently like for now as Jenz's most of us we tend to not attend the family gatherings most of us you feel like ah next year going to Shush's place everyone will be there two two days maybe to when we are supposed to meet I won't be available he or she is trying now to wait maybe the reason why there is something that is happening in the family >> but now the issues it's very very hard to reveal them I'm to remove the layers story by story >> cuz the moment when you have and so many unsolved issues from childhood >> they act like when you have layers like you put uh Examp when you have something like a shoe if you put it here and you put maybe like 12 blankets on top you can't tell where the shoe is if you start at that point. >> Mhm. >> Now that's how unsolved issues look like. >> The first thing it's now been withdrawn. >> The next now >> you mentioned that as loss of interest too as well. Right. >> When you lose interest you withdraw. >> Yeah. Right. Okay. >> And now [music] the second thing is now the selfharming part cuz now in depression that's very very common. >> Yeah. >> Where you tend to find someone >> that's an extreme end. >> Mhm. >> Self harming. Yeah. >> So what does a person do at this stage? >> At this stage pain becomes the only solution. >> Pain becomes a solution to pain. >> Mhm. >> You tend to feel the satisfaction. When you cut yourself and you feel that pain, it gives you the satisfaction. >> Isn't that psychosis? >> I would to say mentally. Yeah. >> Uh well, we will classify it at that point though in it's common in depression. Psychosis it's a bit heavy cuz it has its own own personalities, its own symptoms. It has its own direction >> for depression. Most of the time when people are now doing practicing self harm, they tend to harm themselves on areas that you can't see. >> Oh, not maybe on the forearm. They tend maybe on the inside part >> on the thighs where it's very very hard to tell. M >> and you see now at now at this age it's very very hard to tell someone like can I see is it possible maybe you share out >> yeah so that's a coping mechanism cutting yourself torturing yourself exposing yourself to pain >> but also let me ask you as a an addiction counselor how do you work with such a person on a journey to healing cuz we mentioned all this stress anxiety depression etc and whatn not how do you start now as a professional are there like recovery plans what is the first step that you start having a conversation before you now walk them a journey to recovery so the moment you walk in maybe it's impatient or outpatient in the institution first we do something we call the assessment first we have to help you understand what am I going through where am I cuz we can't start from maybe You're lost. Allow me for lack of a better word, allow me maybe to use lost. You're lost. We can't start and tell you let's go west. We have to help you find how did I live at this point. See when I understand how I lived I be able to understand what are the triggers >> and that is the first thing we do for the assessment. And now if someone is bur maybe the mental health condition and was into substance substances we still do several assessments and now there's the toxicology cuz there are some who use now we call them poly substance the subst >> substance use meaning you are using one one or more >> more than one more than one drug. >> Yeah. >> Poly substance. >> And you find most of the time now people with battling with depression most of them you find into they are more into alcohol or into marijuana. >> Yeah. >> Right. But let me ask you at a larger scale. There's people who occasionally drink. Yeah. How do you how do you differentiate between an occasional drinker who's drinking for let's say having a good time like they call it local to have a good time versus somebody who is dealing with something and most of the time uh if you listen to even mental health conversations they tell you I didn't even know I was depressed but also maybe on the other side too they self diagnosed and they said oh I think I'm depressed so I'm going to use I'm going to self-medicate how do you uh put perspective both sides of the spectrum. >> Well, okay, allow me maybe to start with this point. We don't commend or we don't advise someone to do the self diagnosis. That's something we always advise because there are symptoms or signs we look for and maybe to communicate it that clearly. Well, on that end maybe now about whatever now like assessing and everything correct me if I'm wrong but you're on the right path. I would say kind if you don't mind kind allow me to restructure your question. How do you put into perspective a person who is on the extreme end of self diagnosis and they feel oh I think I'm depressed do self- medication versus a person who's just occasionally drinking to have a good time. >> Mhm. >> Like they say thank you. It's very very easy to tell the difference especially for us who are in this field. For someone who is taking it just for fun, the occasional drinking itself, let's say the recreational one, the responsibility part, it's well done. The moment now addiction becomes chaotic in your life. You start neglecting even the small responsibility that you're supposed to do. >> Yeah. >> And now in addiction, there's something you always say that the normal becomes the abnormal and the abnormal becomes the normal. Mhm. >> For in now what I mean is when you're heavy deep into addiction, you tend not to do now the home chores that you're supposed to do. >> Yeah. >> The personal hygiene. >> That's supposed to be normal. >> Yeah. So you stop showering, you stop eating. >> Mhm. >> Right. There's those who overeat now as well. >> There are those who overeat in depression. >> Okay. >> Mhm. for this. Now let's say let's see combine on how it's very easy to tell. Now for someone who is now having an underlying condition for someone who is intoxicated it's very easy to tell when they at the end cuz they start giving you you know I feel a bit tired I don't see as if I want to enjoy life anymore. Most of the time when people are intoxicated to take it as a joke, it's very light for them to say and we tend to take it very lightly. >> When someone comes and tells you, I feel I'm not going to live anymore and they're intoxicated. You see all of us in that table, >> we are intoxicated and be like, >> yeah, >> but this person is hinting of suicide. He's >> hinting you suicide. >> Okay. And now maybe at this point when you find someone who had been sad for a very very long time maybe for 2 weeks and longer his b is depression there is only one common thing that happens before they commit suicide most of them they tend the last day maybe before their brain finally decides I want to do this >> mh >> I'm done and done for good >> you find them there like the previous nights to be all the moments before they commit suicide. They always very very happy. >> M >> sometime to be happy when they are partying. >> Yeah. >> And you find friends are like we are with him or her yesterday. Very okay. Very jovial. >> We even spoke on on a phone call. >> Yeah, we did talk. He was he or she was very very joy vibrant. M >> and now they are they've committed suicide. >> I think in the morning you get now different news. >> Yeah. >> And you tend to ask yourself as a friend was I missing any signs of hints >> from my friend. >> Yeah. So meaning there's this there there's a possibility of trails that this person was leaving >> but nobody was putting them or being cognizant that this could be a sign of an underlying deeper issue. >> Yeah. But also let me ask you on the other side how does it affect affect a person's daily life a general average Kenyan who is depressed what are some of the facets of their life or their livelihood that gets immediately arrested when they are in this you know predicament. M. So most of the time we tend to find now for the people who are depressed tend to find like most of them in the relationship for like allow me to start for others man. We tend to live for someone who you love most when you feel things are a bit overwhelming you tend to break up with them and you solve your own things. And that's how it happens for for us men. >> Yeah. In the society we tend to live all like to cut off people who love us, people who care for us, we tend to cut them off. >> And especially now if you go now into the depression for us as men, we tend to find like in families, we tend now to disown them. >> Yeah. A dad who was known coming home joio playing with kids. The responsibility has been overwhelming. He's into alcohol. Things start to get heavy and heavy. And now maybe he was coming home 8. He start coming at 11:00. >> Yeah. >> From 11. Maybe next week one day he's missing. He has gone out with friends. Not coming back. >> Yeah. And when you look at especially in the current world you're living in today, social media plays a pivotal role in terms of as well curating or having these conversations but also maybe as a contributing factor to I'd say anxiety I don't know about depression but you can clarify on it as we're near the end of this conversation. So uh for person who's extremely like their drag is social media they can't do without it. They're always doom scrolling. And I think the other day we were talking about how the impact of AI slope and how people are now getting sucked into they just want to it's one click, one share, one scroll after another and switching and swapping between different social media platform. >> Um how do you categorize that in terms of a copying mechanism? Is it a good thing or a bad thing? And what is the impact on somebody's mental health? Cuz you realize somebody spent over six hours just streaming or watching a stream online. the they're the streaming for five hours, you're done watching that, you switch to Instagram. What is the impact of that as well when it comes to this conversation around mental health, depression and anxiety in a person's life? Thank you. At this point now, social media has become a very very common coping mechanism in our society where you tend to find most of us tend to scroll for hours. It's unhealthy if it's longer hours, especially when you're suppressing the emotions. When you're trying to avoid certain unsolved issues that you haven't dealt with, if you tend to block them, the brain tends to get that overload. It's like having like those issues, you tend to keep on adding more pressure, more pressure on them. At a certain point the brain will reach at a point where it cannot handle the pressure. >> Yeah. >> It will now start at I remember the a point where we discussed the brain whispers before it screams. >> Yeah. >> It reached now to a point where now scrolling itself doesn't give you the satisfaction cuz most of the time when you scroll it gives you a hormone like the dopamine. >> Yeah. You feel the satisfaction >> something is distracting your brain. >> Yeah. So you use that as a coping filter or mask. >> Yeah. >> Right. So it's a distraction. I think that's what you had mentioned earlier. >> So that that helps you to get through your day or to survive that period of whatever you're going through. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> You survive it for that day. But now the brain itself when it's avoiding unresolved issues and it's using a certain distraction, you'll get used to it. >> Yeah. >> And that's why you find someone scrolling scrolling and you get >> maybe at a certain point you find like maybe I'm scrolling on Tik Tok and I find it it's not it's not giving me the satisfaction I want. And I feel ah no I don't feel the satisfaction. >> Yeah. >> And at this point now it comes not to be a concern a critical one. The moment you sit down on your couch you take the remote you switch on the TV. Maybe you go to YouTube or watch a movie. >> You binge watch everything on Netflix. Yeah. >> You binge watch. And now the critical levels are you switch on and you can't even know what to watch. Nothing comes in mind. >> You're blank. The it's used staring into the TV. >> Yeah. >> It's cuz now the unhealthy coping mechanism the brain has been used to >> is now asking for another coping mechanism. >> Yes. So it keeps on is collecting and developing. As we close, who are the common people that come to seek help a lot in your land of duty? And also in terms of the common underlying issues, what is it? Is it anxiety, stress, depression? Like what do you deal with on a daily? And how do you usually help them to heal from that in a nutshell? >> So most of the time I tend apart from now addiction, we tend to deal more with DIP, which is drug induced psychosis. Mhm. >> We deal with that. schizophrenia cuz it's a bit people don't talk about it a lot. The personality disorders cuz most time they tend to go over but then people can tell where the problem is coming in bipolar. >> Mhm. We tend them to come up with coping mechanism to help them understand how can I live with this. And now the stization in the society is you can't take the medications cuz most of the time people tend to say the medications will make you be worse or you go nuts. >> Yeah. >> But at this point it's reversing the condition. >> Yeah. And now there's the depression, anxiety. Now there's something you always do with our clients. Immediately we do the inatient >> afterwards. There's something we do called after care program, >> right? After program >> where we work with our clients >> even when they are distant, >> right? >> We do sessions >> with them. We help them to cope up with the reality now cuz they dealing with work, family, they are now integrated back into the community. Okay. All right. So, we are exiting. Uh anywhere that you're always active where they can be in touch with our viewer who has been watching this conversation and maybe they would like to take it further. >> Mhm. Uh maybe if it's possible I would like to give an email maybe at like maybe you can reach us at sober homes. It's Kenya atgmail.com. Right. And then we have our line where maybe you can get to one of the counselors >> in the institution. They can help you to through the journey and to give you more knowledge and skills on on how to make the decision. >> Right. So you mention the email they can go there. >> Mhm. And candy along. >> Yeah. Mention it in 3 seconds. We are exiting. We are out of time. >> 079200 2060. That's our hotline number in our institution. All right, sure. Get in touch with Peton Dura. He's an addiction counselor. All right. For anything, if you missed out, I promise you it will be available on YouTube in the morning at 24 channel at brand1 at James. We thank you for watching from 7 to 10:00 a.m. See you tomorrow. Heat. Heat. N.