Longevity, Muscle, Fat Loss & Staying Sharp for Life - Dr Mike Israetel

my kids R tell welcome to the show Chris thanks for having me again in a bar this time yes I the person who picked me up blindfolded me put a shot in my arm I woke up in a helicopter being repelled down to a barn I have no idea where we are but interestingly I do have some ideas about longevity on the brain and an erection always ah I'm just kidding never talking about longevity bit of a buzz word especially the last sort of 5 to 10 years on YouTube true how' you to think about longevity constituent Parts what is it um longevity is kind of the big concept and there are two underlying Concepts at least that are important to chat about one is the duration of your life how long you're alive and the end run of that is mortality like if you die at 97 versus you die at 57 then you lived 40 years longer whatever you had more longevity in that sense and that used to be kind of sort of the only way longevity was discussed a generation ago or so and times before that but there's an important subcomponent sort of part two of longevity that has to be in the discussion for it to be the most meaningful discussion possible and that is a variable the endr Run of which isn't mortality but it's morbidity and that is quality of life so the two parts of longevity are how long do you live for and what is the quality of life that you're experiencing during that time so mortality is how soon you die morbidity is like what are the last 5 10 15 20 30 years of your life like because it is a very very different situation to have two people live to 90 and croak sarily at 90 and one day at the same time holding hands very romantic but one of them up until 2 years ago was living life to the fullest active independent uh healthy generally speaking could travel maybe could drive all the way up to few restrictions on very few restrictions the alternative is there are people currently in their late 40s that suffer from morbid obesity that if you somehow just kept them alive and with technological Innovation that is increasingly more possible that they kick around for a while let's say magically you got someone like that to their '90s some let's use a more realistic example after age 70 a person is mostly bedridden requires the care and attention of many people is bereft of family and friends and lives in a nursing home tended to hand and foot very identical mortality same day of death very different degree of morbidity one person experienced almost none one experienced a significant amount so for the rest of the discussion we're going to have here today we're attending to variables that don't just enhance the probability that you live longer though they will but they're also going to enhance the quality of life you experience as you age which is really really important because if someone's like do you want to live longer and you're like yeah they're like in a nursing home with tubes everywhere you're like oh how much longer like years decades like cash me out I'm some people want that sort of thing some people don't so very important distinction is it a tradeoff between the two almost never but almost sometimes there is a trade-off between the two for example in very difficult athletic Pursuits there are some data indicate that if you really grind it as an athlete especially into your later years you could technically be through putting so much through your metabolis ISM uh the total human metabolism and the amount of sort of damage and chemical alteration your body takes is kind of like uh like a candle if you burn it really fast it burns out a little quicker and just just lowkey that there is a a situation like that this is at the extreme end though very extreme very we'll come that later as well Donald Trump made a comment about uh you have a limited number of heartbeats in your life and life exercising speeds them up yes not quite right Donald one of the many ways in which Donald Trump is more wise than us all uh that he does have a little bit of a point there um so if you are a hardcore athlete you may not live quite as long as if you cooled off on the training a little bit however if you're a hardcore athlete you'll probably just not suffer nearly as much from Mobility restrictions morbidity things various Health maladies you're just going to croak a little sooner and by a little I mean maybe on the order of months to a few years sooner but your quality of life is going to just be completely different especially in your later years those distinctions are very rare and there are almost no cases in which mortality and morbidity contradict each other usually it's roughly the same stuff like most of the recommendations we'll have talked about today are going to be like a lot of column a column B both checked off when it comes to longevity quality of life what's the biggest movers or the number one what's the biggest determining Factor do you know is that a question that can be answered technically in the literature so it it's difficult to say what the biggest factor is by far because the way you ask that question has to include what is the degree of variation you account for so if you say that uh nutrition is the biggest variable but you're dealing with a a hundred people being examined for their nutrition or trying to correlate lifespan but most of them are eating decently well it probably won't be the biggest variable um but uh the kind of raw take to be completely honest in our current environment is probably the degree of osity that you carry how much body fat you have and how heavy you are beyond what you were genetically designed to hold so like the Great Dane effect or the uh you know like things don't live as long large dogs are designed with similar systems as small dogs and they almost always die like half sooner um humans are all designed on very similar systems and subsystems and when you get a human to weigh four or 500 lb it strains everything like crazy so it's like a a reliable way to shorten your life or one of the most reliable ways to shorten your life would be probably one of the most short of extreme drug abuse like just doing crack or Coke every day uh stuff like that um extreme uh prolonged stress and sleep deprivation absolute huntter Biden stuff total laptop type of right uh but um yeah as far as things that we see humans alter in the real modern world today it's difficult to reduce both your uh longevity how long you live your lifespan and wildly increase your morbidity in a more dependable way than being severely overweight okay you mentioned a word there that I thought would maybe be the biggest one genetics what's the role of genetics when it comes to lifespan longevity quality of life Central and uh I it's interesting that the the way you asked genetics is insanely insanely pertinent to how long you live and explains almost all of the variants for those wacky stories you hear which are often false and sometimes true well my grandfather he lived till 98 he smoked 10 packs a day and he mean son of a barely slept drank all the time and somehow he lift to 98 and usually people Trot out these stories to try to reduce the uh apparent benefits of improving your lifestyle because it there's kind of a fatalism associated with like dude if if if my grandpa lived till 98 just eating raw meat you know what I'm saying and smoking eight sigs in an hour who G why am I going to go eat kale that's stupid I'm not going to waste my time the thing is Grandpa probably had just the right stuff genetically and if you try it at any given age and you try it at any given level of genetics that you may have maybe you're closely related to Grandpa in that regard maybe not so much because you might only be a quarter related to Grandpa and if the genan shuffle pretty decently maybe only an eighth and you might have other people in the family that like croak at 55 all of a sudden you're like ah whatever so genetics matter a ton but they are still all altered so genetics gives you an average of everything's average in your life average nutrition average sleep average everything genetics will say you're going to die probably about 72 but if you do everything right you might die at 82 if you do everything wrong you might die at uh 52 62 something like that very big differences abound however that settling point of longevity very genetically informed however the reason I said that atopos is probably the most um pertinent variable the biggest one explanatory wise is because it's a variable that you can push all the variables to extremity you can push your sleep down you can push your stress Sky High but it's unlikely you're going to do that to yourself for very long in the free modern world like if you work any decent job in the US or any of the anglophone countries modern Asia Etc Europe like you're probably not going to like die because you overworked voluntarily in a coal mine unlikely but boy a lot of people voluntarily overeating like crazy and being that we're are we allowed to disclose the filming location being that we're in the Austin Texas metropolitan area lots of people are eating to such high extents that I'll tell you this if you weigh 400 lb and you Trot out the genetics to me of look why you haven't lost weight I'm dring you like I don't even want to hear this because you know like it you can really do unbelievable damage and shorten your life substantially it kind of doesn't matter where your genetics are at that point if you're talking genetics does that mean all grandparents and both parents seem to have lived for quite a while most people haven't done a full genome assessment or whatever I don't even know if we've done a polymorphic trait like here's the long living G here's some of the longing long living groups I can spare the expense it's going to be polygenic but there mean there's not one gene that I can just the age Gene that people only live to 55 or 95 no one in between it's very bodal right um if you look at it you can look at genetics from two different perspectives in this regard at least one perspective is there are no doubt genetic variables about a person that under the hood cause them to live a long time or live a short time you might be able to clear mitochondrial damage faster or something like that your genome the actual like strands of DNA are kept like less methylated than otherwise there are a variety of molecular machines that do that some people have more effective variants or more of them so on and so forth you would never be able to look at a person and tell that's what they have they just have that ship that's what grandpa had when the coal mining days when he smoked a cold chimney every hour or whatever the he did he was he was literally a cigarette Chris a giant walking cigarette and he wouldn't die so that is Factor number one there's a bunch of those kinds of things but the other kind of genetics and it's a straight up still genetics that affect your lifespan is the genetic propensity for the secondary effects that affect it for example if you have a appetite for very tasty very not good for you foods and you have uh genetically hunger signaling that's just like kind of you're always hungry or whatever no pleasure from exercise 100% um propensity to do addictive drugs a propensity to take Preposterous risks a propensity for poor sleep um that's not under the hood stuff it's going to affect what's under the hood but it's expressed in other measured variables so there's two ways to look at that okay environment how does that impact longevity yeah basically um in the current modern world environment impacts longevity a very small amount because all of our environments are generally kind of really good good enough that the variance produced by environment is very small however in the developing World environment has really big effects on longevity still one of the top Killers straight up all around the world is um indoor air quality if there are still countries and cultures in which you burn for food and fuel like sod or some like that inside and he sure goes out the chimney but believe it or not some of the molecules stray to the sides and you inhale that you do that for 30 40 years it's going to impact your longevity like crazy if you've ever been to developing nations like India for example you land the uh internal circulation of the air stops external air comes in you're like the happened here and that does not stop until you leave India or go way into the jungle because like Mumbai has an air quality that like if we had that in Austin there would be like a like do not travel to Austin Texas for the next two months kind of like I remember the California wildfires are a really big deal and the air air quality was like it's really bad and I remember being there and I was like what the because I had been to Mumbai a few times like man I could live the rest of my life in this it wouldn't affect me at all I'd been to Mumbai so outdoor indoor air quality uh polluted water contaminated food things that we just really just don't deal with in the modern world you go to Japan Taiwan the UK Germany the US it's all free and clear pretty much and so in the environment doesn't have huge effect in that sense um there are other things about the environment that can produce or uh um increased longevity stress and things like that I don't like to call that environment you could be more specific with those uh things but generally speaking environmental factors just aren't a big deal for us living in the modern world modern world har rude everyone's modern in the developed world it's not a big deal in the developing world yeah it's a huge deal and one of the ways to increase human well-being and human lifespan is to help the developing World clean up like in the literal sense of just to have cheaper cleaner energy cheaper cleaner energy cheaper uh cleaner abilities to clean up well cuz like if you get a lot of energy you don't exactly clean up your air doing that if you have a five nuclear power plants you still have to make sure that your production facilities of all these goods are not spewing toxic you have to have regulatory framework to make sure cars are increasingly expected to have different standards because like in India there's like diesel regular small cars in the road and they put out some smoke that I'm like that our cars at home do not smell like that they do not pass our regulatory burden and obviously of course like good governance uh largely free markets enough ability to generate wealth all that stuff so okay diet touched on body fat um body weight earlier on yes does it matter what you're eating does it matter how it impacts you how should we come to think about diet from a longevity some point great a diet that can keep your muscle mass at decent levels and does not make you excessively overfat or overweight probably is something like 80% of what we mean by diets effect on longevity so if you take two people and eat two very different diets but one that they're roughly the same body composition and size Etc they're going to get longevity differences from diet Al but they're not going to be enormous on the order of probably 5 years or less just on a heuristic basis we're not talking about 20 or 30 if someone weighs 600 lb yeah it's 20 or 30 years if not more you know once so stop arguing over vegan versus carnivore and instead look at how much they weigh oh my God by a long shot let's put this in perspective with some characters that we make up in our heads if a vegan or carnivore doesn't matter uh say you know they're 350 lbs at 5' 7 and they're like well I'm vegan so it's not a big deal you're going to be like bro that ain't it now if you eat mostly healthy foods lean proteins veggies fruits whole grains healthy fats and mostly unprocessed Foods if you do that whatever body weight you're at it absolutely matters for longevity but it matters a little bit and that means you should do it but the biggest thing that you get out of those Foods is the ability to do weight control because if you are grotesquely overweight you could be eating all it matters but not by a ton how much mitochondrial damage and stuff like that is coming from junk processed foods or is your concern with avoiding ultr processed foods that they're just more palatable than eating the whole of food version it's probably another 8020 or 9010 situation where mostly they're just a portal to being really fat but um yeah there is some decent research that says very processed Meats very processed various other food foods do have chemical effects cellular levels that are absolutely not ideal especially if the preponderance of your diet is composed to those foods but if you eat uh not so healthy foods a few times a week and the rest is healthy they cannot statistically differentiate you from someone who eats healthy 100% of the time in the mortality or morbidity assuming that you maintain a similar sort of weight correct y so yes exactly but again we're fighting with ultr processed foods are more palatable often more calorie dense go back and watch The Fat Loss episode that we did before if you want to learn more about that that's it so that's really important stuff but I think the big takeaway for me is this if you kind of two extremes one we already mentioned if you are following some Ultra healthy diet either ostensibly healthy or actually healthy and you have gotten up to 400 pounds and you're not losing weight currently but you're like I'm good I'm eating the new way it's great you got a bad thing coming your way on the other hand if you happen to be in a position where you are over a healthy weight you're physically active Etc all the other variables we'll talk about are pretty well in line and you are looking at a plate of nachos at a Mexican place with your friends and they're like eat some and you're like oo but they're kind of going to kill me cuz they're made of chips and those are bad sorry crisps does that make your English mind feel better sizing everything yes yes um that's also probably the wrong move and it's a it's a wrong move for at least two reasons one if in moderation and with all the other factors aligned you eat some junk every now and again it's a very difficult story to tell yourself that anything very much matters about if you eat a few chips or zero chips or even a two bags of chips every now and again the other way in which it matters is the and this is a little bit more about how you approach food if you approach food in a neurotic fashion um anticipating dangers everywhere trying to curate your lifestyle to only get the organic vegan superfood and really worrying a lot about what goes into your body you almost certainly will live less time than if you just didn't give a and ate mostly good but every now and again just had 10 burritos no no problem I love the idea of the stress of trying to be perfect will kill you more quickly than your imperfections depending on the degree of imperfection but if you're doing a decent job and you're worrying more than that you're just going insane I did a uh Jeffersonian breakfast with Brian Johnson a couple of months ago okay what is I don't know what that means so you everybody gets I think a minute to speak you kind of go around and and you've got a topic that you're talking on and U it's a way of I guess fostering uh discussion some kind okay uh and he was talking about some of the research that him or his team had done I don't know where it come from uh and he said that eating a McDonald's uh kills you 12 minutes earlier uh that was uh some of the and I do wonder you know I I like what Brian's doing in the same way as I like having a scout in a army that goes and sort of climbs are really dangerous yeah but I'm not climbing that I don't want to go up there but I'm glad he does and maybe tell us some interesting stuff when he comes back down totally however I do Wonder this is one question I haven't got to ask him yet which is how are you or any of the people that that are really obsessed with long go on the r/ longevity Reddit or whatever other versions of that the NAD discussion forum the rest veratrol discussion form all of this David Sinclair stuff from years ago I wonder whether those communities have got to the stage yet where they've tried to mediate the longevity induced stress reduction yeah you know what I mean yes now there are a few ways you could go about this if you are a person who's obsessed with longevity in a glass half full sort of way you're looking at the variables in your life and you're like oo I want to optimize for longevity I love my life I love science I love being intricate and meticulous it's just my nature I love organizing all the variables and being very strict you're not really stressed when you're doing that you're actually involved it's part of your orderliness yeah and so not only do you get the benefits of being a perfectionist on never eating any junk but also you get the benefits of being super involved which is another big variable we'll discuss later as uh seems to have some promise for longevity but if you're a person who if they are told listen just eat mostly healthy foods and you're good to go and you're like oh my God thank God but if I tell you look every fry you put in your mouth is like 30 seconds less life like you're telling your wife something just beautiful about how much you love her on your deathbed and you're like and my favorite part of you is and she's like that stupid fry from McDonald's stole my husband Soul if you are a person whom that idea and the pursuit of perfectionism tends to give higher stress levels I'm going to tell you right now it's probably not worth it just do a good job don't try to aim for perfect we'll get back to talking to Dr Mike in one minute but first I need to tell you about Carol I first heard about Carol bikes from Brian Johnson of all people who said that this is the best way that he managed to get his heart health improved I think he's got the heart of an 18-year-old maybe an 18-month-old I'm not sure but told me that this was the way he was doing his high-intensity training Dr Ronda Patrick also has been hopping on about it and carolike gives you the shortest most effective workouts actually backed by science it's scientifically proven to deliver Superior benefits in less time compared to regular cardio there's no super magic going on it just uses AI to personalize resistance based on your unique ability delivering maximum results in minimum time and making you work very hard so if you're tired of wasting hours on ineffective workouts give Carol bike a spin right now you can save on Carol bikes by going to the link in the description below or heading to Carol bike.com slod wisdom that's c a r o l bike.com slod wisdom what happened to all of the research saying that if you cut a rat calories by 50% or 30% that it lives tons longer whatever happened to the intermittent fasting side of that you haven't mentioned once calorie restriction for longevity extension why um because it's almost completely encompassed by the variable of body weight now I'm going to tell you something completely insane Chris you might not believe but when you feed a rat a little less food or a lot less food it gets a little or a lot lighter in body weight and if you factor that variable of body weight it already accounts for that so it's absolutely true that if you input fewer calories on average in a certain margin you got starve you get starve yourself to death and you've like always been starving to death and you're a skeleton but like at 110 you're like I'm still hanging in fell can I get a brownie they're like no no you would die like I kind of want to die with a brownie in my mouth so the body weight basically absorbs all of that variance for us so let me does that not mean that we should all be fighting to be as low body weight as possible if you want to live there's an optimal body weight but it it's not one number I can give you because it depends on a bunch of stuff internal genetic variables I can't possibly predict because I don't have an AI scan of your whole genome it's coming I'm sure but it's not here yet another one is frame size like someone who's 6'2 you're yeah yeah like and very Broad shouldered in the inter chromal distance for the bones you're like yeah you got to weigh like 115 lbs and then you're going to be super like longevity like yeah until they die of starvation sarily one day later so a lot of variables play into that but as far as body weight is concerned you're generally going to take the average recommendation of what most of the governing bodies in medicine agree is the statistically healthiest body weight and you're going to air either at that body weight or a little bit less less you start going much less than that not so great so for example if the insurance tables say that you're probably in your best health at 150 pounds given your they don't usually do frame size so already this is that 150 pounds you're good to go anywhere between like 135 and 150 that's probably your super golden Zone you can weigh up to 165 170 180 if you're more muscular and it'll be almost the same result but if you get into like the 120s or the 110s just a longer it might not work out so well for you is holding muscle mass from a diet perspective well actually just what what's the role of muscle mass talk to me about how muscle mass plays a role in in longevity is it important muscle mass plays makes sort of two appearances in longevity one appearance that muscle makes in longevity is that having a decent amount of muscle has secondary health effects for your rest of your system muscle is a glucose consumer and it keeps your blood glucose chronically lower than if you didn't have plenty of muscle and excessive chronic high blood glucose is a Sure Fire way to just croak early that's it and so there are a few other ways in which muscle has these great systemic effects and those are awesome and that's actually the primary driver the second thing about muscle is when you look at the statistical literature on people with a certain level of muscle mass and their mortality predictions you see these massive correlations correlation is not causation most of the variance of muscle mass or most of the relationship between muscle mass and mortality has to do with uh muscle mass isn't what's keeping you alive it's just a really good indicator of your overall health it's like healthy use a bi a signal 100% so like if you give me an 88-year-old woman who is walking on a cane where she super jacked like destroying skyscrapers and she's like youve ever seen someone who's not overweight but they like reach for their luggage and it's like skin and bones and like the muscles are like her biceps like the width of my finger and you're like the is that person moving and they're barely moving she's going to croak probably in not so long a time but it's because she's 88 and because all of the other health factors have precluded her from building muscle not as much because if she built a ton of muscle it would keep her lifelong good bench press she'd be sweet it's true if she had more muscle probably be healthier for her but a lot of times people who are bedridden people are suffering from chronic illness people are suffering from chronic physical inactivity like your hips are totally so you lose a ton of muscle in your legs and then like people are like when you die they measure your muscle mass in a study and they say well it's low muscle mass is it the low muscle mass specifically that killed you although it did have a small effect it's the fact that like oh you are in really poor health in order to get to this muscle mass is Downstream from what you've done 100% And there's a couple things going around the internet people are talking about jump height uh your ability to jump high related to your mortality and grip strength and like if you try to train to jump higher or grip stronger thinking it's going to keep you alive uh reverse causation not the best use of your time yeah what about too much muscle lots of people listening who maybe were worried about that they spend all their time in the gym you as well large guy who's competitively bodybuilt bodybuilt for quite a while bodybuilt so technically as soon as you get to be considerably 10 or 15 pounds heavy than what the insurance tables predict will be the body weight that lets you live the longest um you're probably not doing yourself any favors with longevity however this is one of those instances where quality of life and Longevity can be a little bit antagonistic to one another so that definitely has to be stated that no you can't be as jacked as you want and still live as long as you want but if you're not using anabolic steroids and growth hormones to get that extra muscle the amount of muscle a human can gain naturally as long as they don't have a high degree of body fat is just not going to make a huge difference in longevity and so if a quality of life trade-off is worth it to you it's going to be a very small effect less than five years end of life maybe even less than that if you use a ton of steroids to get this jacked then you're going to be doing some time at the end what are you talking about with uh I don't know take yourself the sort of course you've done which I would guess is in the upper range of what most people even non professional bodybuilders would take what sort of uh life price do you think people are paying as far as my back of the envelope calculation for myself personally so there's a big caveat so that I don't embarrass myself postumus when this is released when you die tomorrow or die in 100 years time huge stasic element about death like I can anyone can just die tomorrow like God blood vessel in his brain just blew up turns out his head was too big uh that kind of weird aside on average I would have expected myself to probably take about 10 years off of the end of life yeah hell yeah yeah just what is it that the drugs are doing that's speeding up the dying process yeah what aren't they doing that speeds up the uh they're growing your heart muscle in a way that makes your heart worse at pumping blood they are consistently presenting you with cholesterol levels that do nothing good for your arteries they are elevating your blood pressure now many of those variables I have kashed so I could be lucky and be looking at less than five years but there's also an element of where carrying that much excess body weight starts to be a standin for the muscle when you weigh I'm 56 and I currently weigh 235 you weigh 235 pounds of 56 you are I'm uh like one obesity category away from the highest one all the time on BMI correct y but like the amount of weight you carry around the amount more forcefully your heart has to pump blood Etc that still counts fing 100% And so to quote Donald Trump on the heartbeat thing again he's not 100% wrong um that definitely is a factor so if you happen to have used lots of steroids but you kept most of your health values in check and you just had dog genetics for being jacked and you never got really big you're probably looking at less than five years off your lifespan on average but I've been pretty big for my size for a long time and my parents are both teeny tiny people with very small frames I also have a very small frame I just have a lot of muscle on it relatively speaking and a lot of weight and I have had for years and that's absolutely a big problem do you I think about Chris bum said when you talk about that someone who's just retired M age 30 okay 62 63 I think he steps on stage at like 2 20 230 something like that I'm not too sure very mysterious what the classic guys actually weigh but yeah 220 to 240 or something yeah um I think about him you know trying to get in and get out he's like you know Navy SEAL Team Six like kicking a door down shot someone in the face six times and then like you can't get me anymore I don't have any more Olympia trophies yeah all right uh I wonder wonder how much he's been able obviously genetically Elite uh I wonder how much he's been able to get in and get out so to speak the more you can get in and get out the better um I never used preposterously high doses mostly because I was like I don't exactly want to die like tomorrow tomorrow but also because for me high doses were just not so great with my psychology and stuff yeah but uh for someone like Chris Bumstead I mean his degree of muscle mass and body weight that he carries for his height and frame were never like insane do you know who big Ramy was yes like is um that's G to put you in the grave a lot sooner cuz you are one isn't he like 340 off season correct so he literally is 100 lb more than seum at probably a slightly shorter height like that's the kind of thing that's going to affect you so just to review real tail end 100% so to review the muscularity part if you are very under muscled it's probably not a huge deal for longevity but being of at least normal musculature for the average person of your sort of height and frame and age is probably your best bet at longevity having a little extra mus can help can hurt probably cancels out on average so if you're jacked as a Natty unless you got super fat to do it like I did when I was natural no big deal yeah and then as you use drugs if you use drugs to get jacked but you're really good at controlling your health variables you never had excessive cholesterol you never had uh chronic high blood sugar from mismanagement of insulin and growth hormon like that if you did a good job managing that and you never got enormous enormous yeah like the drugs definitely kill you faster but not psychotically faster I mean there are dozens and dozens of Golden Era Pro bodybuilders that are still alive today they're in their 70s and 80s Arnold's still kicking it like if this was remember one of my mentors um Dr Mike Stone uh told us something about steroids when we were in PhD program he's like you know we in the 80s knew that the media was lying because you just went into locker rooms and gyms you just didn't see any dead bodies cuz you know like 80s anti-drug hysteria was a totally different level like want steroid injection you're Crim you're in jail you're addicted to heroin somehow also and you're for sure dead like tomorrow that absolutely doesn't happen however last category is if you get very very large stay large for a long time stay tons of gear for a long time and don't attend to the various Health consequences at that point you're rolling the dice and the only way in which the dice are loaded is with your genetics because there are Juiced up people that have been jacked for forever they're beat red and they just like don't die and they live into their 80s not the great model for most people because they just have baller genetics one of my friends and a mentor of mine BR Chavez had I believe like a grandfather or an uncle who like worked literally in the coal mines and he had like uh some kind of chest condition this is an amazing story it was the 1960s and he like went to the doctor and he's like H something in my like some lungs or and they're like oh yeah here are Diana ball tablets dball Taps oral steroids right so you just got a script for oral steroids and he was on on them for like a generation straight this is an oral drug you're not supposed to take for longer than like 6 to 8 weeks he was just on it all the time and I was like all right so what was he like he was like jacked and mean and he lived like well into his like late 60s or 70s and coal mining right and BR broad said once he's like I think he just died because he was just like God this don't want to be alive anymore the thing is most of us do not have genetics like that so really important to say like if you know someone that's lived a long time in spite of everything do you want to take that chance on yourself I wouldn't anything else to say on muscle mass actually that's a question there is something else to say if I want to take a non- bodybuilder but longevity approach for training for this yes very rough hee what do I need to do yes training two to four times per week for 30 to 45 minutes at a time mostly compound movements large muscle mass movements underhand pull downs and pull-ups rows close grip bench presses dips overhead presses squats deadlifts Etc stuff like that obviously vanity you can do usually with relatively short rest breaks for sets of 10 to 30 repetitions per set alternating muscles that aren't involved in one movement with those that are involved in the other so do some close grip benches take a quick 10-second breather do some underhand pull Downs quick 10-sec breather and back and forth and back and forth that should constrain your workouts to a small amount of time interestingly enough if you're working out exclusively to get more life at the end of your life like you're also consuming a lot of life being in the gym around sweaty nasty people so you have to integrate that in yes but this keeps the duration of you spending time in the gym lower but also because of the short rest intervals and the higher repetitions it allows you to have some of the benefits of cardiovascular extra exercise that are U sort of enhancing to both quality of life and how long you live and so that's probably the best way to do it it's very minimal effect on your schedule and it has probably as much as you'll ever need to extend your lifespan or make it higher quality if you're training in the gym like two hours a day six days a week and you're like for longevity like it's not it's not bad for you necessarily but it's Overkill you're overshooting yeah definitely sleep what about sleep sleep's a big deal sleep is the ultimate stress reducer in everyone's life like that's pretty much the one of the main purposes of sleep is to kind of reset the whole system and sleep is a thing where again that 9010 8020 rule comes in handy if you're mostly sleeping enough to feel well rested which means if you need like neonic I need eight cans of monster to keep me awake after 2 p.m. you're not getting enough sleep but if a can or two of nutonic throughout the day is all you need to be your sharpest then you're good to go and you're probably getting enough sleep 7even to nine hours for most people as good of quality of sleep as you can manage keep the room dark keep the room cool few distractions no blue light a few hours before bed all the general sleep recommendations that are really awesome if you just checklist that and you usually get really good sleep a night or two every few weeks you stay up all night or you get you know really busy with work you don't sleep two hours no big deal generally that's the recommendation chronic low amounts of sleep in a way that has you feeling it is a big deal some people just don't need as much sleep as others Joo uh is that true supposedly so the 4:30 a.m. thing which I'm reliably told by some of my friends that are fathers that they beat on an almost nightly basis easy I'm never asleep they've got dad to do yeah exactly um but yet I mean there's that genetic mutation that I think the same likelihood of you having that that requires you to only sleep maybe four hours a night and feel okay is the same likelihood as you being hit by lightning twice holy it's like super super unlikely a few very very rare anyway um Joo is one of those people that I've heard I think basically what most special forces select for are people that can deal with sleep de very well very big deal because if you if you need lots of sleep consistently and you also degrade very heavily in your cognitive and physical function you just won't make it through selection even if you're a straightup killer that's the kind of guy you want to be like an elite bodyguard for someone like the president who sleeps normal hours you have a decent rotation for your bodyguarding shifts you can be like a Delta Force Level shooter you're just like look if I don't get my sleep I'm I'm good to know when after a few days Tim Kennedy told me the story maybe you ask him about it tomorrow if you're chatting to him ask him about the time he ran out of ammo and he'll know the story and uh I think he said he was awake for like the only time he slept was when he was concussed by an IED going off holy in like 48 maybe more hours he's sleep for awake for two full days runs out of every different platform every different magazine every different piece of ammunition that he had and uh you just realized that okay that's that's what the job demands of you Ross Edgley who I think uh wanted an intro to you to have a chat at some point oh dope um I asked him you he's done all of these crazy swam or did a a triathlon holding a tree uh treeathlon uh he's the first person in history to ever swim around great Britany did six hours on six hours off for basically seven months uh he's just done the longest single distance River swim in history uh 300 miles oh my God 55 hours without touching land without sleeping without anything 55 hours straight through and and um I asked him what his superpower is and it completely makes sense all of those things together are him allowing to deal with sleep deprivation and to digest food in very strange situations yeah some people's digestion will shut down and Ultras and stuff so he's able to have piping hot porridge to keep him warm when he was in the Yukon swimming in in Canada piping hot porridge like a internal hot water bottle heating him from the stomach out um but then get back to moving and being horizontal if you feed me food I need to be vertical for at least 45 minutes afterward just the way my digestive tract is put together I don't like being horizontal sure um so what I'm saying is certain people deal with digestion sleep in very very very different ways yes so for those people that don't need as much sleep don't feel like you have to get it but if you're genuinely not well rested chronically you're doing some reduction of lifespan and and life quality 100% what about regularity of sleep I've that the regularity can impact longevity as much as the duration yeah as probably a little bit of an exaggeration though maybe not by much especially in extreme cases it can be pretty nasty shift workers firefighters nurses correct um sleeping roughly with the day and night cycle uh and getting to bed and waking up at roughly the same time on most days is probably a good idea for some people that like that Brian Johnson robotic lifestyle every morning you wake up at the same time every night you go to bed at the same time dope but for most people they're going to take a hit on social quality of life factors and yeah if you stay up a night or two a week a little later and wake up a little later it's just not going to be a big deal but regularity is a really really good thing it's a thing that should be built into your life anyway and violating every now and again is okay always being in the mix of God knows when I go to sleep and wake probably not ideal for longevity over the span of about a year I tried pretty much every Green strength that I could to work out which one was best and I came across ag1 and I've stuck with it for 3 years because it is the best it's the most comprehensive highly tested and rigorously formulated one scoop of ag1 contains 75 vitamins minerals and Whole Food sourced ingredients including a multivitamin pre and probiotic green superfood blend and more that all work together to fill the nutritional gaps in your diet it increases energy and focus and helps with your digestion best of all there is a 90day money back guarantee so you might not be sure you might think that this is a big commitment but no it isn't because you can buy it and try it every single day for three months and if you don't like it just give you your money back right now ag1 is running a special Black Friday offer for all of November you get a Year's free Supply vitamin D3 K2 five free ag1 travel packs plus free bonus gift just go to the link in the description below head to drink a1.com slod wisdom that's drink a1.com modern wisdom going back to the exercise portion realize we touched on muscle mass like the bro side of exercising but what about more General activity outside of that yes walking and stretching and cardio and all that stuff so stretching no reliable mechanism by which it'll let you live longer but generally a moderate to high amount of physical activity has a good combination of promoting the longest lifespan and longest Health span I think that's like a Peter AA book title I just said by accident um that you know the keeping the morbidly low having the higher quality of life because so something like just for people's reference frame 6 to 12,000 steps per day for most people is totally cool but a better way to put that is probably if you're doing a lot fewer than five or 6,000 steps per day all the time and you don't get a lot of physical activity otherwise you could be living longer if you did more physical activity in most cases just to touch on that uh I think I'm a good avatar for the Jim bro who goes quite hard for an hour and then is sedentary for a lot of the day I'm doing some exercise I'm doing probably significant 95th percentile intense exercise but I'm also not moving quite so much what would you say I imagine a lot of the audience fits into this particular bracket I think you're doing really well for yourself if you wanted a small but meaningful enhancer to quality of life and Longevity later down the road you would break up your periods of physical inactivity at least another one time in the day for a serious bout of some kind of aerobic output be it walking uh as easily as that all the way up to pretty difficult aerobic activity and so if you lift weights and you do all that and if you get you know roughly 10,000 is steps a day very roughly huge variation for indiv uals you're pretty good to go but there's probably almost certainly a morbidity reduction way of doing it and probably increases your lifespan by a little bit if you have several sessions a week two to four sessions of 30 to 60 Minutes of intense cardiovascular activity and for most people a really easy way to measure that is can you have a conversation with someone while you exercise I don't mean a few words here and there like H I'm doing good see you tomorrow like not that I'm talking about like consistent conversation like you and I are having now you and I can have this conversation on a walk no problem if we were in really good shape we could have it on a jog but we're not pushing the pace with aerobic exercise if we can talk so if you can't talk and you're huffing and puffing doing that at least twice a week for 30 minutes on end and all the way up to four times a week for 60 Minutes on end or any combination therein is probably that extra cherry on top for longevity and Quality of Life Enhancement so if you really want to live as long as possible I would say some pretty intense regular aerobic activity is probably a good thing and unlikely to be a bad thing is that something that you're thinking about now that you're out of I just want to be as big and lean as possible world are you or do you see your Brazilian jiu-jitsu as is that contributing in that sort of manner my Brazilian jiu-jitsu definitely counts as that and I do JJ now roughly five times a week and at least a few of those sessions have me huffing and puffing so I'm probably taking good care of that um I am absolutely not the model for longevity and quality of life I'm in a very perverse very strange path very understood very chosen path I think you've uh at least partly ejected yourself out of that or sort of G gently come into land yeah I stopped uh abuse level steroid do uh but yeah it just makes me think again I have this idea called the manop pause uh guys at some point between 28 and 45 that have just wanted to get as jacked and lean as possible maybe they have or haven't abused Peds maybe they have or haven't ever tried to do different training modalities realize that they they become chronically aware of their own mortality and they think hey I shouldn't be out of breath going up those stairs or whatever I can't touch my toes or my shoulder hurts always yes um just again thinking about people pivoting out of that and it seems to me that uh if cardio which for some people is fun apparently but for other people you need to game it like you have which is choke the guy oh my heart rate's High I was trying to choke the guy my heart rate Got High um for me pickle ball as a good example I'm chasing the ball around a a a thing very British very British way of of engaging that would be yeah maybe not Bulls Bulls are Polo um but yeah just trying to think about some of the easiest ways for the non-c cardio lovers to get themselves to that place for sure that's a great great question Chris a great statement because we know from the exercise participation literature in the physical activity participation literature I actually used to teach a class dedicated pretty much to this that that is encouraging to participate behavior health behavior is a trip like we know pretty well what to tell people to do but then they're like and you're like okay they won't do it how do we get them to do it big part of that is uh a two- Factor thing one is your physical activity should be pretty fun and it should also hopefully be something that involves you with other people so that the community reinforcement part is in play and that you have the situation where if you just don't feel like it someday your Airsoft team is still meeting up to shoot AirSoft pellets at each other you better be there and so you just end up falling in and if you fall out of activity that nobody gives a cuz you're just on a treadmill at home and you have no friends and no one to talk to you're maybe kind of done but if people are like dude are you going to make it to jiujitsu again I heard you healed up you're like that I do I should go back I love Jiu-Jitsu okay I'm going back the social pressure usefulness that was the thing that I realized when I started doing uh CrossFit and uh any fighting that you know your most training for most people unless you have a really cool Gym training buddy yeah is you steeping in your own neurosis as you stare in the mirror listening to metal or dark thoughts if it's you and uh or nothing yeah um and I realized oh this is awesome I'm like Outsourcing all of my exercise motivation to this group of sure people around me sure lightens the burden of me having to do this thing that I kind of probably didn't want to do yes and I I don't want people to misinterpret that as being like you got to bully your friends into exercise see that that was good have you considered playing American football I play cricket for a long time excellent that's it I don't want people to misconstrue this as us saying you need to bully your friends into exercise there's a latent assumed expectation that people have that you're going to come back to aerobics class that you're going to come back to the pickle ball situation Jiu-Jitsu whatever it is and that internally to people without anyone ever saying anything you have this thought of like well all the guys are at Jiu-Jitsu I'm going to go is a hell of a drug it's a big deal and also what to the earli point like it should be something that you ideally look forward to and then it's fun you don't want physical activity and nutrition everything and Longevity pursuit to start feeling like medicine to start feeling you just swallow the horse tablet and then you're good to go people generally don't tend to stick to that sort of thing and the discomfort of it the um less enjoyment that you have the less involvement that you have already actually xes off another longevity variable we'll discuss later which is like life involvement so if you like what you're doing you're doing it with friends and it's healthy for you man you got a real good thing going yeah I suppose there's a few times where a more nuclear option is required if you're Ethan SLE that you got to meet the other day and you're 530 pounds and you're going to get down to 250 or something you got to do the thing yeah you eat the horse tablet all day but yeah for most people they're are easier ways to kind of increase compliance I love that I didn't even know that uh exercise Behavior was it yeah health behavior General health behavior I didn't even know but it makes complete sense uh what we spoke about last time on the last episode which I really loved was my favorite of the ones that we've done so far about Stress Management uh recovery what is the role of stress in all its forms on longevity lifespan morbidity yeah stress has what has been described I say pretty accurately it's a hermetic response or uh Association too little is not great too much definitely not great so if you never have challenging times in your life times where the best of you is required times when you have to focus times in which you struggle both mentally and physically you're unlikely to have as high of a quality of life and by a little bit as high of a duration of life as if you have times of life that require you to get tired and beat up and stressed and overwhelmed however because there's a lot of really cool that happens when your body's overwhelmed and a lot of the crap it secretes when it's overwhelmed are actually like molecules they're studying now that have like longevity enhancing effects however if you're so stressed all the time or much of the time that you're like lips just above water kind of stressed you know like the gasping for air in a pool that's almost your height then that is overwhelming your body systems and chronic high psychological stress will put you into the grave early almost every single time there's another consideration here of how you perceive stress because you can look at some successful business people athletes uh whoever whatever realm they're in mothers five children to raise if it looks like they're in high stress and to the outside Observer but they're engaged in loving every minute of it they don't really pay the cost longevity wise and it's actually a bit of an enhancer but if you no matter your stress level feel totally overwhelmed and like when will this end type of situation and you hate it just get me out you know like you see a celebrity getting asked for the 50th time when your new movie are you excited about it and they he glossed over eyes it's not just the heroin that time that's gloss them over that kind of constant overwhelm that's not really great for longevity or quality of life so what you want to do is sufficiently challenge yourself in life and also get the recovery that balance is tough I myself have had a real hard time striking that balance in my life I blame my wife for this entirely she's Asian oh yeah well I'll get to that in a second I'll get so I blame her just for many things in my life most really even stuff that like happened to me when I was a child she wasn't even around cuz why not at this point but she is a person who is her industriousness is like a the charts and she needs to in many cases be doing something or else she goes insane the problem is I'm also like that so when we're together we just work a lot and we get guilt trips in our own heads about not working enough and so we're really really bad about taking time off and time to rest nowadays we're a little better at it because per the recovery podcast we did it's a priority for us as professional work athletes like like athletes rest the funny uh like I can say this in a space where millions of people will see it my wife sent me so uh sorry our uh the joke is super old our adopted son Jared feather ifbb Pro um he is like on exactly that level of Crystal and eyes psychosis about work but probably worse which he considers a great honor uh and it is but also it comes to the trade-off he's a very amazing Pro classic physique competitor and you've seen Jared in real life like you going to see Jared and you're like why do I even train like there's people that this exist I don't even belong to the gym but seum who's in the same division but has won six olympias and Jared's placed like top five type six in some shows but has never cracked that I think he will in the future but um it was your podcast you had seum on that my wife sent me that clip just like yesterday and she was like this is funny and the clip was what does seum do in the average day and he was like I wake up I I do some cardio I go back to sleep after breakfast I wake up I chill I eat again I take some pre-workout I train I come back I eat I might take another nap I chill do family stuff eat chill do family stuff eat go to sleep and it was like if Crystal was like LOL and I was like LOL I sent it to Jerry because and he responded with LOL like cuz we guilt tried Jared for wanting to be as good of a bodybuilder as he can be but Jared does all our RP social media all the help with like app stuff and software in addition to that has a full roster of coaching clients for whom he travels all the time Across America and the world to help compete and so like I recently he had to take a little time away from training to recover and he was like I don't know what to do with myself and I was like what do you do for fun he's like uh uh work typically or plan to work I'm like anything else he's like I've got nothing and so it's like Jared if you don't pull back on all the work how are you going to be stepping onto the Olympia stage you don't have the recovery timeline in your plan to do so and so for all of us folks that are super grind kind of thing and none of us are like man grind set mentality we never say that because we're just like isn't that just what everyone does isn't that normal for those of us in that position pulling back is a good idea but if you're sitting on the couch if you're bored if you're on your fifth dubie and it's kind of life for you all the time you're never challenged never stressed you will live longer if you stress yourself especially with things that you're passionate about involved in and can progress at that kind of stress in combination with an equal amount of rest and Recovery is the jiv as the French are inclined to say I don't even know if that's a term middle of the bell of stuff yes which is tough because so many of us that are prominent for whatever the in your case massive success and intellect in my case my Curious head shape um you know we just kind of work a lot and we're like this is great and here's the thing if you love it and you're not overwhelmed all the time you're pretty good if you're compuls to do it if you're compuls to do it and you feel both overwhelm and this sneaking suspicion that you're a little and you just need to go harder you're not going to live as long as other people dud so funny so I had a call this morning I had my first full genomic test done everything uh I can I can show you it at some point unless you clone me you're out of a closet now uh yeah exactly turns out it is genetic who knew um that uh we went through and you talk about Snips different Snips we've got this snip we've got this snip Etc and this is correlated with dot dot dot this allows you to methylate better this allows you sections of DNA right Y c677 and blah blah blah blah blah and then next to it there's a percentage number how rare it is oh cool uh and presumably this is across population data or whatever they've got uh to compare it to they have a lot of data now dude I was sat listening to my doctor go through this stuff this morning and it was okay so you've got two copies of this Gene 6% of the population you've got two copies of this Gene 4% you've got one copy of this Gene 18% two copies of this every single one of them dopamine Drive ruminative thoughts epinephrine nor epinephrine don't clear adrenaline well like all of the things that will just make you very compulsive very motivated very industrious and it's the first time that I've ever looked at the genetic of behavioral genetics so you think my parents have these traits we know that heritability is a thing therefore you will have these traits too but at no point did I ever actually think okay and what is the mechanism by which this is passed down well it's the genes it's the actual genes and given the fact that we've now got genomics to the point where we can start to see a little bit of the code in The Matrix or Matrix in the code uh we can actually look at it so I was like reading the language of me the building blocks that I was made for dude it was so interesting get that done man I I can send you the link it was like not that expensive it happened in a week you just swab the inside of your cheek from your home send it off and I was like this is but also the other thing that I realized I was like yep see that yep see that and what what's really funny is where you go uh you've got two copies of this I'm like yep in mom and dad you go got one copy of this and you can determine which parent holy because you go ah yeah that's that's dad that's not mmal but whatever the other way I I was blown away I can't stop thinking about it day today so um did you get to the genes that predict what you're going to be like when you're older they'll be in there or at least they will have captured them but yeah you keep reading that genome you'll see some really crazy wow yeah it was cool um so stress don't have overwhelming periods uh have overwhelming periods but make sure they're periods not years at a time or decades at a time or like always if you haven't been feeling as sharp or as energized as you'd like getting your blood work done is the best place to start which is why I partnered with function they run lab tests twice a year that monitor over 100 biomarkers they've got a team of expert Physicians that take that data put it in a simple dashboard and give you actionable recommendations to improve your health and lifespan function track everything from your heart health your hormone levels and your thyroid function plus nutrient deficiencies they even screen for 50 types of cancer at stage one which is five times more data than you get from your annual physical best of all Dr Andrew hubin is the scientific adviser and Dr Mark is their chief medical officer so you can trust that the data and insights you receive are scientifically sound and practical getting your blood work analyzed like this would usually cost thousands but with function it is only $500 function has a 300,000 person weight list boo but every Monday they open up a few spots for modern wisdom listeners yay right now you can get the exact same panels I get by going to the link in the description below or heading to function health.com slod wisdom that's function health.com slod wisdom you mentioned about engagement some sort of passionate engagement thing thing you like to do what's that let me say something super super quick about the stress thing you can have days and even weeks of extreme stress and it probably won't reduce your lifespan as long as you can competant afterwards take days or even weeks of much lower stress until you feel like yeah I could deal stress whereas like you know day3 of a vacation after a really crazy period of work you're not even relaxed yet something that uh folks might want to know is that seemingly and this is just based on my inference as you get older the amount of time it takes you to unplug during a vacation or as you say in the the kingdom holay to us holidays like Christmas Thanksgiving Etc um it it goes up that amount tends to go up and takes longer time unplug right Y and so I remember I had met a gentleman it was a very nice man who um uh a door man in New York when I was on a vacation with my parents I was like my early 20s went to the Dominican Republic and we were there for like a 10 days which we thought was a really long time he was on vacation for three weeks and at all- inclusive in the Dr and I was like dude are you serious he's like when you get older as you get older it takes you longer to unplug he's like so the first week I'm unplugging the second and third week I'm relaxing and I was like that's weird I need a one we warm up to my holiday dude serious ly cuz like it's just not true to say that you're relaxed immediately after any stressful activity like it takes some time like imagine someone finishing a 15 hour am in the squat and as soon as they rack it you're like all right uh good to go let's get in the car and drive off you're like hold on a second my sweat hasn't even started coming out of me yet like there's a process and so if you're as you're getting older it's important to note that what used to be enough duration at a time of relaxation for you may not be and that it's good to take a little bit more time to be a little bit extra recovered the best way to know if it's time to start grinding again you start getting itchy for the again not compulsively like you want it again you want some stress you feel like a lazy and you're Way Beyond relaxed if you haven't even gotten relaxed yet you need more vacation well this is why it's so important to work out whether you're a like a type a person with a type B problem or a type B person with a type a problem sure right then again the patience determines the dose of what is required it's like yeah I've been thinking about this all the time the just work harder bro advice thing it's been in my head pretty much since our last podcast uh White knuckling creativity and how you can't do that uh the fact that you don't just get to switch on or switch off the industriousness like Drive yeah yeah motivation it's uh super interesting I think it's a a really important thing also do you really want to look back and just see that all you did was work like absolute the whole time it would be the honor of my life to die at my job yes but that doesn't mean it's a good idea yeah some people they look back you're totally right all fous this aside for me it would be an honor to die at work and having been known as a very hard worker but for most people they're like man there's all this life to live I remember uh I was in an English class at in college uh sorry in uni yes and uh I um there was like a short story we read about a guy who was like always super super smart and got super Straight A's and he like uh had an opportunity to go it was in the late 60s he had an opportunity to get on a bus and go to like Washington DC to protest something but he didn't because he had exams coming up and he gave like a speech to a a college graduating class when he was like 60 or something super successful career and he was like oh you know like my one regret was I didn't get on that bus and the only thing I thought at the time was like yeah but you got these millions from being a career man didn't you and you did that passing some exams didn't you so but for whatever it is as far as how you want to live your life which transitions into that next topic of enjoyment yep make sure you're taking breaks don't be stingy with the breaks but if it's all breaks all the time put yourself through some difficult it's gonna help you okay passionate engagement passionate engagement I'm not an expert in this subfield of longevity by a long shot so you can probably have someone on the podcast at some point which I would consider fascinating I would at least watch the episode you get one View From Me hey I do run a robot Farm in China that will give you 100 million more views you have to pay for that sort of thing yes so at least we have this robust correlational data that shows that people who are passionately engaged in one or multiple sequential or overlapping lifetime Pursuits seem to outlive most other people we know it's correlated I'm aware of no causitive mechanism through which this occurs it strains my brain to imagine one and maybe the causation data is already around I'm just not up to date on the stuff so please ask chat GPT about this ask chat GPT or uh Claude or whoever about is there mechanistic presupposition or good evidence of how passionately engaging with anything in your life can increase your longevity and quality of life there that data may exist but at the very least we know the correlations are pretty airtight and there's just so many people that have lived much longer than you would expect because they were passionately engaged and so many examples of people that were like eh and they don't live a long time so at least as a check the box just in case sort of thing y it's probably worthwhile to have in your mind if you want to live the longest not to have this perspective and this goes back a little bit to the stress discussion of like if I'm gonna make it really far I got to chill all the time and never involve myself too passionately in anything because passion gets the heart rate going and that's bad on the other hand you want to consider it as as a balance but also it it's at least worth a shot to get into that passionately engaging with something what do I mean by that let's say you are just huge on World of Warcraft think about it day and night you play it all the time you have friends that play it the game evolves all the time even something like that is statistically as a correlation likely to keep you alive for longer than if you have nothing about your life that really gets you going in the morning nothing you're building another thing is creating something people who create inventors statistically outlive like almost everyone it's really kind of strange composers outlive almost everyone because it they have a mission and it keeps them seemingly so engaged that it may have some benefits game in some ways some in maybe this is a maybe but here's the thing on the longevity side it's a maybe on the quality of life side it's 100% certainty which is why it also categorically belongs in this discussion because even though the longevity stuff the lifespan is correlated maybe it's causitive the causation element of quality of life is 100% a thing your quality of life is measured in a bunch of different ways but one of them is like do you are you really involved in what you're doing do you really like what you're doing like imagine you had to describe you know you meet someone on a plane sitting next to them and someone's like what do you do and you're like uh oh like I do podcasts and stuff and they're like do you love it and you're like ah it's all right it's a it's a living like you are clearly being factious because if I may guess Chris this is a deep involvement for you having conversations with mostly intelligent people occasionally sprinkling me in this is a thing you do and a thing you really give a about that is probably going to be good for your quality of life simply because it's even just a sub definition of the quality of your life you're in 100% on something for hours a day it's a really huge benefit in the statistical literature that we see and so at least worth a mention on two grounds of Might positively enhance your lifespan but almost certainly will make your quality of life much higher is this the effect where we see people who retire from their job at a particular age and then there seems to be this sort of drop off towards death people that retire reti might be part of that the other part as a big proponent of science physically big not smart just big um I want to say that there's almost certainly a big feature of that Dynamic it's a true dynamic is reverse causation or a causation of an underlying variable if you just don't have it anymore at work cuz you're dying you quit work and then you die uh but but there may very well be this situation where even if you still got it if you quit work your life drains of meaning and then yeah probably multifactorial as well providing you with uh Community providing you with structure every single day you're maybe moving maybe you're on your feet with some sort of job you're getting your steps in it's like it's you know it's all of these things work will set you free ah shouldn't say that to you huge you know uh I quoted my dad once on the internet who said work will set you free and I had a friend reach out and be like you do know that was like a sign above like oswit or birkenau or something and I was like it's still right though and like you know my dad is as ashkanazi as it gets so tell him that he uh okay other people I've heard that all people like them Chris I'm sorry they smell they look at me funny I think they look funny what else is there to say that's true but apparently you need them to live longer yes through vampiric consumption of their body fluids ideally you get them in infancy but infants are so hard to find nowadays birth rate decline will do that to you that's right that's the real tragedy of birth rate decline no more suck the spinal fluid out of what is Hollywood even doing to stay young and healthy um very very similar statistical picture here as to the involvement stuff passionate involvement was something you like is seen in this situation with community and social relations family Friends Community involvement are very tightly correlated with your longevity and because most people like a certain amount of them they are in that subf defition of quality of life so we could just say that is really great um it's a big deal and in many cases people will get all of the socialization they want and no more like I'm in Austin right now doing a bunch of podcasts if you text me to hang out and I'm interested in hanging out I'll be like where when if I'm not interested I'll make up some excuse like hey I'm super busy catching up on something and anyway see you I'm good to manage my own so that's totally cool most people are doing a fine job at that however there are many people that have two things going for them one is they're not extroverted in a way that outreaches to get other people to hang out with them and two they simply are not aware of at least the correlational relationship between that and quality of life and Longevity and so some people are totally fine being hermits but some people some people are also totally fine being hermits but when they actually engage in social interaction where it's foisted upon them they have like a breath of fresh air go through them and those people specifically need to be keen on making sure that they do at least the bare minimum to continue to involve themselves with other people now typically in many cases it's just not a problem Middle School too many people high school same people College uni a lot of people you can be ostracized in those situations you can be a loner but a lot of times that's either by choice or by you just don't like those people as you get older many people report that their ability to form new friendships or sustain older ones it falls off this not some kind of like Doom and Gloom scenario like get old everyone leaves you and dies that can happen but there are many many many ways in which you can get yourself involved there are community centers there are various uh games and sports and involvements and everything at any age it's possible for you to reach out connect with people and regularly schedule Hangouts be it with family and friends be it with other people be in a volunteering capacity you don't have to have like deep close ties even if you just interact with other humans like at a soup kitchen for the love of God several times a week that seems statistically better than just completely Walling yourself off if you're a kind of person that's inclined for some sociality so make the effort is what I'm saying we'll get back to talking to Dr Mike in one minute but first I need to tell you about element for the last three years I have started my morning every single day with element it is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't each grab and go stick contains a science-backed electrolite ratio of sodium potassium and magnesium with no coloring no junk or any other BS you might not be underslept you might not need more caffeine you might just be dehydrated and proper hydration is not just about having sufficient fluids in your body it's having enough electrolytes to allow your body to use that water best of all they have a no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration so you can buy it and try it for as long as you want if you don't like it for any reason they'll give you your money back and you don't even need to return the box that's how confident they are that you love it right now you can try it completely risk-free and get a free sample pack of all eight flavors by going to the link in the description below or heading to drink LM nt.com slod wisdom that's drink LM nt.com slod wisdom what do you make of Dr Robert waldinger's stuff is the Harvard's longitudinal life study he came on the show uh and he had found that the single biggest variable in how long people lived was the number of close connections that they have uh it was more than smoking it was more than going to the gym it was the single biggest determinant why would you posit that that might be I wonder if that factors out age I haven't seen the actual data if it doesn't factor out age it's probably partially correct as causitive mechanism but probably only partially because when you're 88 most of your friends are dead and you outlived all of them and the reason you die soon isn't because they died it's partially that but also most because you're 8 yeah it's just clocks ticking so um it like I said the the correlational stuff is a big deal there are other ways in which it might not be causation driven if you are a cogy piece of and you're bad to yourself in your own head and you're bad to other people you just won't have a lot of people around you um if you are very isolated you're not economically very productive you're not very involved in things most of those things give you more friends having more money having more social connections having hobbies in common with people they all independently likely correlate or drive longevity because like when you have more money you can just afford Better Health Care in many cases and also if you have a lot of money um You probably high and trait conscientiousness and so you probably care about your health and also eat well and exercise and all that those people just tend to have more social connections than otherwise but there's there may very well be an independent positive part of community I'll say another thing one of the hypothesis that I like not saying it's true I just it uh feels like a nice thing that makes sense to me is that a certain given level of social interaction is something that the human individual organism has been primed to see as a base level uh because if you look at our ancestral history like lone humans just die real soon I'm a Lone Wolf bro uh all right here's a spear just kidding your the females of the tribe actually picked the plant that wraps the head of the spear you don't have a spear anymore you have a stick and there's a buffalo there's one of you and that thing weighs 1,600 lb and it's interested in getting upset at you if you try to kill it you're not doing by yourself in all of our ancestral history The Loner is just like I love that lone Samurai like Vibes wise it's awesome like I hate when psychotic lefts are like you no one ever does anything by themselves like shut up you just want socialism get out of my face but in the real world you just drawing your own samurai sword by yourself that's just not how it works and so humans are pre-built primed for living in groups and you're just unlikely to as a human have an evolutionary history behind you which makes the act of being alone for a long time remotely normal like beneficial totally right but it's just so abnormal that if you expose humans to one closet no sound no light a little bit of food and water just to keep going in a hole in the floor to poop and pee they're also going to die real soon because people need all those variables just cuz they're normal and so social interaction at a pretty high level normal remember all of us evolved in very communal circumstances where you walk outside of your Hut which might have your wife and your three children in it but the rest of the village is always every night every day together everything's together we're seeing increasingly more as societies get wealthier and older a an atomization of individuals like the average Japanese 60-year-old has nobody but here's the thing how the hell are they alive they don't need to kill bison with Spears anymore they have supermarkets they have food delivery they have online work so you can generate value at home consume media at home you just never need to leave now watching television shows and listening to music almost certainly will increase your longevity and quality of life if you just have no choice of anything else but being around real people I don't think we have to suspect it is some kind of magic fairy dust effect where like it's the socialization that's good for you it's the fact that when you don't have lots of socialization it's such an unusual thing to your human systems your brain that you're like this lowkey subconsciously something is off and then your ability to generate passion to have meaning to have purpose is largely gone because you just weren't built for this yeah passionate engagement will go up maybe you've got people around you so if you get too fat they're going to say hey Mike you're getting a little bit fat totally you aren't waking up at the right time so this sort of Correction mechanism for a lot of other toally having grandchildren and children around for whom you maybe take care of maybe you imbue them with wisdom that's a lot of meaning and a lot of purpose you're living for more than just yourself to live longer do you know I have no idea almost certainly they do but uh I wouldn't uh I don't have the data in front of me to say that okay that's the things that do impact longevity what are the biggest myths in the world of longevity in your opinion again as in all of our myth discussions this has to be highly curtailed for the purposes of time there are a few things that come to mind and maybe you can remind me of a few one is that in 2024 October am I allowed to say when this was filmed yeah we don't have any supplements that you can take that are like strong main effect for enhancing longevity and have been approved or that main effect has been Illustrated in of a wide variety of studies done by different Laboratories around the world and we have a deep understanding of the causal mechanism behind that I take nmn nicotinamide mononucleotide and um I was my clip appeared in some other longevity podcast where I went on a longevity rent on one of my other videos and this longevity expert dude who seemed like a sharp guy knew what he's talking about he kind of clowned me on the nmn thing so I took another look through the literature and uh turns out actually there is some very decent data for nmn having some uh longevity effects and actual mechanistic effects as well but the total number of studies and the breadth of populations it's been studied on is just not enough for me to go singing its Praises all the time which is why I've mentioned it now twice ever in public pulled up for it both times yes and and so um it's just something I take as a hedging mechanism of like maybe do something uh I just swallow it right but I swallow a lot of other things most in any case I won't get into that so shut up again so if there were these pills I could take that reibly increased longevity I would love that I would love if there were supplements like that there's was very trol there's a few other candidates but none of them have that like dude is this really worth my money for sure like if someone's eating only 80 grams of protein per day and they're like I can't eat any more real food should I take supplements you're like yes like will it help with muscle mask yes like how many studies hundreds on everyone there's nothing like that for longevity supplements so in 2024 if someone's selling you longevity supplements they could be on to something and there could be some valuable stuff people have in their formulations that actually works but nothing that we can be ultra super sure about and really quick no small number of shady supplement companies will tell you you got to take this it's going to make you live longer and two every single one of them are if their claimes are extreme they're bullshitting you what about met foran met foran is not a supplement it's a drug you have to have a prescription for however met foran is a life extension drug here's the thing it's a very small effect the only way we really know moment form it extends lifespan is because so many people take it for diabetic outcomes that from that mechanism alone we have just like ungodly numbers of the end size is huge so with a huge sample size in a study you can Zone into real tiny effects and see them so if you take Metformin versus not you're going to probably live a little longer with metformin than not but it's not this thing that's going to take like five or 10 years and slap it onto your life that's what I'm really excited about for the future of medicine what I'm here to say is in is in mid to late 2024 it's just not here yet and met foran it's not something you just should go out and take should be a conversation with your health provider um not everyone reacts very well to metformin and again the longevity benefits are quite small there's other tons of side effects you can have with it there's some really good main effects tons of people are on it for diabetic control but it's not some kind of anti-aging wonder drug I will say uh there's literature coming up a little bit now that some of the mechanistic effects that you see with metformin are even higher with seatide uh and a lot of the new anorectic drugs the fat loss drugs so when people say like well I'm going to take this drug but when I get off that want to regain the weight like yeah probably and they're like well so I just got to be on it forever like uhhuh and they're like but isn't that bad for me like no it actually might be better for you to be on these drugs than not on these drugs in like seven out of 10 is that a direct mechanism from the semaglutide or is it that it's stopping you from your weed addiction and your food addiction and your porn addiction low there's at least one mechanism off hand I can I talk about it lowers your blood sugar your chronic area under the curve of blood sugar substantially and that itself has like five different ways in which it doesn't toxify your organs over time was definitely a thing so there are some things like metformin stide that are in the conversation for like oh neat they have little little longevity boosting effects but there's just unfortunately no drug or supplement currently yet made that's like this is the thing you need to take for longevity and here's the thing like there are people that are D I say anti- capitalist um anti- Fitness industry anti- supplement industry that will say the same things as I'm saying and it'll be true uh I'm the opposite of all of those things insanely capitalist supplement Optimist Etc I I just happen to think like I don't first of all I want to lie to people I also don't sell supplements I wouldn't make any money off that now if I have to lie to people to make money holy welcome but it it's just one of those things like I really wish was true but it's just not true yet yet that doesn't mean we're not several years away from massive massive changes in how drugs and other things can affect longevity one of the other most common Pathways intimate and fasting we spoke about calorie restriction earlier on yeah but intermittent fasting is a very specific type of that with what's that thing that it does autophagy autophagy autophagy autoag there's another way to say that that's slightly a slur so which we both are yes wake in the morning and the switch has being flipped always my switch broke off through violent homosexual intercourse it was a great time could a world record on grinder yes fasting fasting is awesome for a bunch of different reasons sometimes it fits people's lives better sometimes it lets them control hunger better if you get enough protein it's probably not going to lead you to become emaciated or whatever it's not the optimal way to get jacked but it's not that far off however um fasting had this thing a few years back where people were like this is the thing for longevity but it turned out that comparing models of fasting versus not fasting if you keep the caloric restriction as the variable that's at play there's no way to statistically differentiate fasting versus not fasting um Mano henselman has some really good Insight on this from a compilation of studies and so it's not really the fasting that's probably keeping you alive longer it's the fact that you're eating less food overall and the fact that you are now at a a lower body weight lifetime overall is there no truth to autophagy autophagy happens all the time autophagy itself uh can occur in the presence of food or not the presence of food and if your caloric input throughout the day is the same the amount of recycling of your own nutrients that has to occur is also the same so autophagy is a thing that you can see very big spikes of and very big declivities of if you fast and then feed but if you just eat regularly throughout the day you get these little spikes and the area under ends up being like very at least very similar and so if you want to fast if you suspect that your reading of the literature shows that it actually has slight longevity benefits I'm absolutely not going to stop anyone I think maybe that's the case just at a just a cold reading of the literature I'm not inclined to believe that fasting has the holy gra Elixir right like CU some people like they're on the longevity kick they're like so you fast right you're like no they're like you're just a idiot like nah that ain't it what about blue zones um I don't like the color blue I like red zones you're wearing blue I hate shirts awful gbrs terrible uh is this blue to you I don't know what it is to Me Maybe I'm color sort of blue blue green teal teal I love teal I love teal Bennett why are various of your staff members laughing at that regularly when we do these shoots uh what it looks like to you the untrained unwashed masses is uh is just that there's light coming up from places right there's light but everybody doesn't know there's a fake sun outside there's fake light underneath all of this it's not even actual photons simul photons fake uh and you can make these tubes any color that you want I like them to be teal he said that we're not allowed them so I'm being abused who know about video things say teal sucks yeah they do but you're here in your shirt yes sorry blue zones BL zones also the fans are kind of bluish so they all of these Japanese people keep on living forever yeah why yeah so people in the blue zones do a lot of things right they tend to not overeat to the extent of being grotesquely overfat they tend to have a high degree of community involvement and personal involvement but um and that's stuff we can take away from them what we categorically cannot take away away from them is the ultra specifics of their diets because here's how it works in fantasy internet land you pick a Blue Zone culture whose diet you seem to like and you go it's the olive oil with the Italians or it's the fish and rice with the Japanese or whatever the hell that's probably not it so the big myth here with blue zones is there are Ultra specific foods and diets that you eat they're going to just really radically enhance your longevity and Ultra specific other foods and diet types that you eat they're just going to croak you out real fast that's just not it the other thing about blue zones is tons of the Blue Zone effect is just straight up genetic in nature you mentioned it earlier on what you're looking forward to from a future of longevity standpoint I imagine some of it's probably got to do with AI some of it's probably got to do with computers and uploading and all the rest of it human brain interface thing yes uh and I imagine that some of it may be able to do with actually reversing aging as well drugs AI I imagine AI also makes the drugs that are going to reverse the aging yes what are the most promising areas when it comes to the future of Aging research yeah Etc yeah I'll probably do this I'll try to do this in order of how it's likely to appear in the future I'll probably get all this wrong so you can just take it for what it is AI power drug Discovery began in Earnest full bore earlier this year the ability of AI to discover new effective drugs to address various disease conditions is for most people who have thought about it a little bit as yet unfathomable it's a quality leap it's nonsense if you went back to 1985 in a time machine forget that the time machine is also impressive in this case and you gave someone an iPhone fully charged and somehow the iPhone worked through the time machine to access the modern internet it would be to the very best Engineers baffling damn near Magic but now we take it totally for granted and kids like jump in the pool with their iPhone and they're like ah crap it fried out I'll just get another one who cares so what I'm about to say all these crazy things remember that most humans do linear extrapolation but the Arc of all of history all of history including prehistory and biology and physics and chemistry chemistry then physics is exponential in nature this is not up for debate it's just it just is every single human or not human biological or geological event that you plot on a chart you need to plot on a log chart so it gets rid of the exponent and that's still an exponent so this is a real thing and so when we people are like what is 2035 going to be like they mostly do a linear approximation extrapolation but it's also a linear extrapolation with a very low slope because most people have an inborn pessimistic bias which makes sense in the Paleolithic era in which we evolved because sucked and you expected to suck like yeah your uncle probably got gored by a bison every other day was off so things are going to get much better very quickly and then even faster short of machines killing all of us or World War II crazy shit's going to happen here's roughly how I see the most likely timeline again huge just eat the whole salt shaker for this a grain of salt all the salt but it's not good for longevity so don't do as long as your blood pressure is fine you're good to go okay so probably one of the first things we're going to see is kashing entire categories of disease with insanely powerful drugs we're going to see in the late 2020s early 2030s like heart disease gone cancer gone Alzheimer's gone just gone like don't take my word for it we already have a category of viral and bacterial diseases that we've kashed who the has you know anyone with polio like a human there people just don't get polio anymore who dies of like rickets and like that like it's just we laugh at it now but it used to just kill everyone can you imagine the 1600s you're like dude scurvy not a thing in the future they're like you're kidding like no like this guy's drinking the Kool-Aid there's no way like also Kool-Aid in the future like what's Kool-Aid you're like it's it's great it's it's okay it's red and it's sweet and it's based on some Berry I'm not sure so when you Kash entire categories of disase like that you just take morbidity down like crazy cuz living with like chronic cancer or some or chronic heart disease Condition it's a different kind of living than living truly healthy and in addition to that it's going to bump up longevity a ton and like nowadays the average person lives into their late 70s that might still be true in about eight years or so but uh the distribution is going to close substantially and so the average person might live into their mid 80s not a ton higher but like way fewer people are dying their and 60s the bottom tail just goes right up yep so that's probably going to be a big thing probably a little bit later maybe sooner who knows we're going to get some traction on reverse aging uh David Sinclair has spoken about this at length he was real early to the reverse aging thing and the way it works in social media and news media is when you have one rat study that does cool people are like this is it when's it coming and it's like we need some more time to get this going but there's nothing about aging really that precludes re altering the expression of your own DNA to just do better cleanup and RSE your age as you present biologically chronologically No Time Machine yet biologically it's a tractable problem there's nothing theoretically about it that's like that's just impossible because again it seems like like the the genie from Aladdin wouldn't even do you know like the how do you reverse aging it turns out that your body mostly ages because the ancestral evolutionary pressures to stay alive and healthy and well for a long time we were just too AR selected for like you're probably going to die by the time you're 27 so if we put one half of your metabolic pathways into doing constant DNA cleanup you just suck at everything else and then you die when you're 18 the world is not sufficiently stable for you and uh there's not enough Providence in the world to keep you upright so that you can fuel your body for like that however if we get age reversal right both through Therapeutics and genetic engineering we can have a situation where your body's actually like oh I'm just never going to like get lazy about these anti aging effects and you essentially just continue to live in a roughly 22y old's body they've already done this in cell cultures they've already done it in a few small animal models it is not a huge leap to do it in Grand scale in humans at large with AI power type of that 10 years from now might be a legit thing I done a whole on my other philosophy Channel I've done a whole thing about the implications philosophically conceptually socially of what reverse aging is going to be like but Chris can you imagine taking 100 million elderly Americans in 2037 and 3 months later they all present as age 22 physically 22 years old cognitively sharp like 22 energy like 22 titties up like 22 what happens to your dick and balls something like 22 bro nightclub scene you got to go back to your old job like holy Gold Rush so all this other stuff could very well be on the horizon there's a chance of just never works out I would assign that there's a low probability of that so aging reversal is a big deal they talk about this thing you brought up earlier I think off camera um longevity escape velocity when true robust aging reversal comes in that's the spaceship leaving the atmosphere because short of getting hit by a bus or getting eaten by a crocodile you might just never die because you're biologically just always 22 so the most important thing for everybody now to live longer is to live longer okay so that's a huge statement it sounds like a uh topology but it really is a thing if you can just make it to the mid 2030s there was a high probability that the the great gentle powerful arms of Biotech are going to lift you the rest of the way just just just go this 2035 that's where you need to reach to right you know when the hero grabs the heroin's hand and lifts her in the helicopter that type of so because people are often like okay I can have a lot of fun smoking cigarettes eating hamburgers smoking hamburger flavored cigarettes a cigarette shaped like a hamburger every permutation thereof but like I don't want to be 88 in a nursing home who gives a up until quite recently that was like a valid trade-off you could make like I'm not going to live forever I'm GNA rock out dope and spirit energy wise I think that's great however it's getting to be pretty clear that into the mid and late 2030s the power of Biotech is going to be so absurd you probably want to make it to see that because you might just be getting a whole different level of ability to live longer at a healthy presentation so we got that the next thing after that somewhere in the mix is genetic engineering there are genes in your body that make proteins that make you age slower or faster we can just select for the genes that make you age slower or reverse aging or whatever else you want or make you just not susceptible to entire categories of disease like we already know the genetic variants that basically you'll just never get Alzheimer's and we know genetic variants that you're probably going to get Alzheimer's probably really soon if we just rewire your DNA as an adult human you take some pills you take a shot and over the next several weeks feel kind of look a little different we can do that the big problem with that is one as a vector problem how do you introduce the thing that but but crisper makes these enormous leaps that you almost never hear about in the news CU nerd talk but now they have a pretty good control of the bacterial genome where they can trade in and out swich it on Swit it off yeah and it's just a few orders of magnitude more complex but the way Ai and biotech go is they just leap orders of magnitude every two years or so and so we might have in the 2030s some I should have a book called in the 2030s and it's just blank it's like whatever the you want magical bullshit's coming it's a picture of my ugly face but there's a situation where so there's one there's a vector problem probably not a big problem because it turns out we can Vector almost anything into your cells at this point and we're going to get better at that the other problem is a torial problem I tweak this Gene I tweak that Gene this one makes you live longer this one makes you live extra long but their proteins interact in high concentrations to poison you and you die at age2 how do we even predict that well AI can start to predict a lot of stuff and will eventually be able to predict more or less all the major functions of metabolism in the human body and because uh if you simulate like the the the layer of phospholipids around your cells with a simulation that takes in most of the variant of how they are you don't actually need to simulate every single Quantum interaction to get a 99.999% like fun function functional simulation so AI this is absolutely intractable for any human brain to do or any number of group of scientists on Earth working together but for ai 2030s ai it would there is a way if you just run the numbers which like Ray Kurt has done for example and many others it's just like easily tractable it's like if you ask a human nervous system at age one can you kick a soccer ball into a you're like no no it's not Advanced to doing that what about a 15-year-old you're like something's wrong with you if you can't do that like really do you know how complex the biomechanics of kicking a soccer ball really are like really complex but for a 15-year-old adult nervous system it's an easy task same for AI taking the human body and being able to essentially unfold all the DNA figure out what everything does figure out the interactive effects and then fold it back up and go here's what you need to change to get this effect once we get that a completely different era of humanity you want to be blue sweet you're blue you want alers you got alers no no problem whatever the you want of all of the variation that humans can have genetically all of humans ever alive occupy a drop in an ocean the size of the volume of the Earth so it's not like everything in there kills you and humans are the only things that are alive it's that mostly most of human genetic variation is completely unexplored and if you just manually through biotech engineer that you get to a point where people don't age and they don't die of disease and they're just kind of dope and they even could be really Hardy like for example they could take a genetic variant and change the structure of your bones and double layer your skull so you get hit by a bus you die now you get hit by a bus and you're like ow you just walk off it's totally possible to do all that stuff but here's the really cool stuff happens at some point and Jared feather and I have a a little running kind of inside bet as to what happens first we don't know at some point cybernetics is going to come in what the is cybernatic you get your arm cut off today they can give a replacement arm but it kind of sucks compared to a real arm however in 2024 the arm they can install already can ambulate it can grab some objects you have a little bit of feeling in there interacts with your nerves that that in 1990 was like straight up science fiction like total insanity in the 203s maybe 2040s but maybe earlier you'll be able to When Things fall off or don't function anymore replace them with robot parts now I want to be on record saying this I'm getting the whole thing done I want to be a robot if I get like my leg hurt and they're like well we can also replace it all they're well we can't replace your heart yet I'm like okay fine but everything else so the ability to cybernetically replace things and enhance things means that you're in the situation where let's say you can no longer ambulate because your quality of life just totally sucks you can't walk because your knees are too up or something if you get Bionic knees and bionic lower limbs entirely all of a sudden social interaction Community all that stuff you have access to it so that's going to be a big deal it's going to happen I can tell you specifically at the point where you're going to see a revolution where most humans not all choose enhancement over just staying biological and I'll tell you when this happens um look at the trajectory of how much cell phones have gotten better or TVs have gotten better over time it's the Improvement trajectory of technology versus biology radically fast measured in decades prior now it's measured in like every year your current iPhone sucks and the new one's way better that is going to be the Paradigm it already is to artificial limbs for example so whatever thege technological progress speeds with biological prog or at least technological progress speeds are going to drag you along for the right yes and here's the thing if an a bionic arm is roughly the same ability set as your natural arm very few psychotic weirdos like me are going to go get their natural arm cut off and put a bionic arm just for Vibes but if a bionic arm three years later is 10 times better at everything that your arm used to do than your real arm arm a few of your friends got it you're like dude you're nuts bro you cut off your own arm like yeah like do you get tired at work nope it never gets tired like dude I saw you hiking aren't there a lot of like lions and around you're like my arm is I punch one lion and it just dies like like I have shoots lasers whatever the lasers thing is a joke but at some point when technology gets so much faster than biology and the arm is a hundred or thousand times in every possible better people will choose to excise their limbs and various other body parts eyes think about this have you ever seen the movie um Ghost in the Shell the no cinematic rendition it's Scarlet Johansson's in it so it's nice even if you put it on mute but uh this one dude gets his eyes up through an explosion he's like a special forces dude and he gets uh bionic eyes implanted and one of the features he talks about he's like yeah they got this they got that they got mile Zoom I had to like rewind and go back mile Zoom like you can see one mile ahead if those eyes are real and they look like human eyes or even like a little bit cyber Punk but not exactly human dude I'm getting that I want to see a my I want to see in the dark and if you're 22 or if you're 35 or if you're 45 you're not taking your real eyes out for they're like well there's a 0.1% that surgery goes wrong and you die you never can see again that but if you're 87 and you need a you know can't even see anymore I'm getting the cybernetic eyes so the cybernetic stuff is going to start this process which has a distinct end and that process is replacing human parts with machine parts until we can scan your brain know exact L every detail of your brain that we need to simulate your entire you because everything about you that's you is entirely enclosed in this period once we have the scanning technology and the AI Tech to do that you can take your brain and download it into a robot body and have a separate copy of your brain doing one of two things one is sitting dormant in the cloud so that when your robot body gets crushed by a boulder because you decide to climb on Everest you wake up in a bed and you're like what the where was I like you you die yes you do I this is not a philosophical debate at all this is a this is a giant red herring I'll take this one on the chin I'm getting really pumped I can tell this is the most animated you've been what happens if you have a biological U and someone scans your brain and puts that brain in a robot body and turns it off which one's the real you there's a categorically correct answer to this question both there's two of you now they're both you they're both going to feel exactly like you did just before they copied the brain so if the real you dies on Mount Everest and then you get uploaded to new and you wake up in a hospital bed and they're like hey you died on on Everest congratulations here pictures of you dying you're like oh that's dope you won't remember that unless you were uploading to the Tesla cloud and then you will uh you will be the real you in every sense of the word that feels like the real you you're absolutely the real you because you're not even the real U used to be all of the molecules of your brain got replaced the cells replace every few days anyway you think you'd have psychological continuity from that obviously not from the dying thing you're not going to like transport your sense of self from the guy under the boulder to the person in the bed yeah what do you think here we're getting into philosophy yeah there I've uh hypothesized a thought experiment in which you will have continuity so what we do is we put you in a kind of giant MRI scanner live sort of situation and it starts scanning your brain and it already simulated your entire brain and your current thoughts and then it clones the thoughts and now there is an a you that lives in the cloud that's looking over your head with the camera systems installed going holy I can see into my own that's me right there but the youu and here you're just looking up and you're like okay is there me did the copying work and remember it's scanning everything live and so what they do at this is very morbid they'd probably do it in a better way but they go okay you R it for full transfer and you go uhhuh and they go they just cut your head right off so biologically you dies but every part of the brain activity including your experience of your own death is modeled and experienced live by cyberu like oh my God I'm dying holy but then I'm still here in the cloud so once we can do that and again it's tractable for AI to do this this is no mystical stuff involved then when you can live in a robot body or live in the cloud there's going to be a couple of different ways people will go with that some people will just never do it and God bless them it it's weird I I believe in the soul that the other thing is some people might embody themselves in robot bodies do things in the physical world and then maybe like spend some other time in the digital world entirely in simulation there are many many people I'm convinced that will just be like I don't need a robot body I just want to live in the Cloud because in the cloud phenomenally easy small amount of compute you could just live as the hero in a permanent Lord of the Rings fantasy That Never Ends you could speed up your brain to go a thousand X you can live as a pirate you can live as a clown you can live as a whatever infinite lifetimes of modeling that is super futuristic post Singularity type of but that's where that's all headed so tldr for this say Rand the for me the thing that keeps me at least to my extent of trade-offs interested in promoting my longevity and quality of life specifically the longevity part is I want to make it to that dope AI medicine part and once you make it to that your probability of death shifts down cons considerably you make it to genetic engineering it shifts again you make it to age reversal it shifts again you make it to cybernetic it shifts again if whoever makes it to when we're regular Lally uploading people into the cloud short of the Earth getting hit by a comet and all the computer systems going you're never going to die never you know at some point the protons Decay whatever 1 times 10 to the 126 million years in the future so for the first time it's realistic optimistic but realistic to say if you're ever interested in longevity and quality of life Improvement 2024 it's a big deal now Now's the Time to gather especially if you're older look if you're 22 you want to smoke a shitload of cigarettes fine you'll probably still naked who gives a you're like you're you're in the cloud smoking cigarettes I never quit I never could X that one out Jesus you're like so but if you're in your 40s especially if in your 50s and 60s and 70s Now's the Time to do all the right we've been talking about because the payoff might not just be you live 10 years longer and it probably will be it might be that weird as it seems to say you might just not die at a human time scale whatsoever and then you're you know you're into some cool dude what a hopeful way to finish a conversation about longevity and dying yeah my is ladies and gentlemen dudes thank you so much you already know that I love all of the stuff that you're doing it's been the best period to watch you guys Crush RP strength I've been using my training at the moment the last 9 10 months or so I told you when we trained together it's been the the best gains I've made in probably a decade the app uh so I highly recommend people go and check it out at the website which isao don't say that you say that what rpst strength.com yes that's it but also go on our YouTube and follow all the links and we'll kick you to the site sooner or later hell yeah Mike I appreciate you Chris thank you so much thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode you can learn even more longevity stuff with Dr Peter rer just there go on