Video summary
The lecture begins with a spiritual foundation drawn from the Book of James, emphasizing that believers as new creations must be swift to hear, slow to speak, and slow to wrath. The instructor explains that while hearing is merely a mechanical function of the ears, true listening requires active mental engagement and processing of information. This distinction is crucial because effective communication relies heavily on listening; research cited suggests that humans spend a significant portion of their time communicating, yet even less of that time is dedicated to actually listening. The primary purpose of this skill is to gain accurate understanding of both the content and the person speaking, which is essential for effective ministry, counseling, and sharing the gospel. Without careful listening, responses can miss the mark, failing to address the actual needs or questions of the other person.
To achieve genuine listening, the speaker outlines several key principles that require conscious effort and preparation. These include stopping one's own speech to allow others to finish their thoughts, managing emotional energy to avoid fatigue, and ensuring the speaker feels comfortable and safe to share. Practical steps involve removing distractions such as phone notifications or unrelated tasks to maintain focus on the message. Furthermore, listeners must practice patience with slow speakers, avoid letting personal prejudices or tone of voice cloud judgment, and strive to understand the underlying ideas rather than just the words. The lecture introduces the HURIE model of listening, which encompasses hearing, understanding, remembering, interpreting meaning, evaluating information without bias, and responding appropriately to demonstrate comprehension and encourage further sharing.
The session concludes with a practical exercise involving a video interview about transitioning between corporate and ministry environments, which serves as a case study for the importance of attentive listening. During this short clip, the instructor points out how easily listeners can get distracted by internal thoughts or external details, such as noticing the color of a shirt or the position of an object, rather than focusing on the core message about organizational culture and values. The discussion highlights that while corporate environments may be driven by profit motives, ministry operates under a kingdom culture focused on service, yet both sectors benefit from similar best practices and skills. Ultimately, the instructor stresses that listening is not a natural talent for everyone but a discipline that requires active training, rest, and a deliberate commitment to prioritize understanding over reacting, ensuring that we do not miss the vital twenty percent of information often withheld by speakers due to fear or discomfort.
Read the full video transcript
Okay, good morning everyone. Okay, I
just want to read from uh the book of
James before we start. Okay, James
chapter 1 and this is verse 19. Okay,
James chapter 1 verse 19. So then my
beloved brethren, let every man be swift
to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath,
for the wrath of man does not produce
the righteousness of God. Okay. Let
every man be swift to hear, slow to
speak, slow to math. So he says uh so
then and then there which means that we
have to consider all that has been said
uh before that and uh the passage before
that talks about temptation and how to
um you know overcome it and uh what we
should do what we should not do. And
then he just says um in verse 18, of his
own will he brought us forth by the word
of truth that we might be a kind of
first fruits of his creature. Right? So
first fruits of his creation as a new
new creation as born again people. And
so he says so then because we are new
creations because we are born again
people first fruits of his creatures. So
let every man be swift to hear, slow to
speak and slow to wrath. Okay. So the
thing is even as new creations, even as
um you know people who are spiritfilled
etc. we know that there is the the flesh
that we need to deal with and therefore
that is a very real thing that uh as as
long as we are on the earth we will have
to deal with it. Mind needs to be
renewed, flesh needs to be put to death
and so on. So this instruction here is
about being quick to hear, right? Quick
to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger,
quick to hear. And that is what we've
been studying about uh listening and
hearing. So it says be quick to hear and
contrast that with slow, right? So slow
to two things. Be slow or don't be quick
to anger. Don't be quick to speak
without thinking, but you be quick to
listen, quick to. So which means that be
quick to receive
but be a little cautious when it comes
to what you're giving out right what
you're speaking and how you're reacting.
It says anger right slow to wrath which
means anger. So be quick to receive
um be quick to be aware be alert and
receive from what the other person is
saying but be slow to the other things.
Right? So be so that's a instruction for
us which we can you know pray for our
own lives um because we will have any
number of opportunities to do the
opposite right to do the opposite of
this each and every day we have so many
of opportunities to do that we are uh
tempted to do that um even when we
interact with people right we have to do
the tempted to do the opposite of this
right but let's pray and ask the lord to
really increase us strengthen us in
these areas, right? Okay, let's pray.
Father, we thank you, Lord, for this
day. We We thank you for this
instruction, Lord, that you've invited
us, Lord, to to be slow, oh God, to
anger, slow to speak, but quick to
listen, quick to hear, Father God. And
so, God, we pray that uh even this
ability, Lord, that it would be
strengthened in us, Master. Lord, we
pray that uh if this is not in us, Lord,
if we've been doing uh things otherwise,
Lord, enable us to Lord, yield to the
leading of your spirit, Lord, so that
this can be strengthened in us. This can
be built up in us, Father God. We thank
you. We commit this into your mighty
hands. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.
Amen. Okay. Right. So um today we'll
continue where we stopped last class
about listening skills, right? We looked
at uh listening skills and we saw that
listening is very important. Um I'm just
sharing the notes here. So we also saw
the difference between hearing and
listening. Hearing is you know it's a
mechanical thing, right? So it's a
mechanical thing in the sense if your uh
ear is okay then you'll be able to hear
right functionally you'll be able to
hear can you hear a lot of things you
can hear noise ambient noise you can
hear words being spoken language
language you can maybe identify it but
listening goes beyond that right
listening means we need to really
process what the other person is saying
right you're taking an interest in what
the other person is saying now why is
that a big part of our communication,
right? Why should listening be big part
of our communication, right? So when we
look at communication itself, we we saw
that it is both speaking
and also listening and based on what we
listen again speak, right?
Communication, it's sharing of
information, right? And it has a
purpose. Comm when we communicate, it
has a purpose. It could be to direct
someone. It could be to instruct
someone. It could be right to uh to
share something like especially the
gospel to share the word of God. Maybe
you're preaching. So you're
communicating something right. And so
it's very important um as we communicate
to also to take care of this part of
communication or this element of
communication which is listening. Right?
Like if you look into the notes you'll
see that um you know as adults right
this was a very old research 2001 and it
says that um 70% of the time we are
actually communicating right 70% of the
time we are communicating which means
that we are sharing of information in
various ways right various ways it could
be now in fact this is 2001 right so
2006 I'm sure the data would be
different where we are using technology
in order to communicate Right. Um and
also it says that u if you see that next
uh say the same graph I mean sorry the
same figure it says that diagram says
that 45% of the time we are actually
listening right and then the rest would
be writing and speaking and you know
reading and so on. So so this is an old
research I'm sure the you know the thing
is percentage would shift uh you know
adequately this time. What is the
purpose of listening right? Purpose of
listening is for us to understand
right many you know that's the main
thing for us to understand understand
what understand the content of what that
person is saying so that we can
understand the person right understand
the message understand the person now
it's very important for us right um in
especially in ministry we need to be
able to understand the person to whom we
are ministering to right whether it's a
you know preaching formal preaching kind
of a setup or it is counseling or uh any
other any other form of ministry we need
to be able to understand the person only
then can we minister effectively
and we need to understand uh the
background of the person we need to
understand the what the person is asking
right suppose the person asks one
question and because you are thinking of
something you answer something else
right and so the person is not really
helped, right? Person has not benefited
because we have gone off the target. We
are we have not been accurate in our
response, right? But whereas if we are
listening carefully, uh we will actually
understand the person and the person is
helped and we are also being a help to
that person, right? So um when when we
when it comes to listening you know if
you look into the notes page 21 right it
says that um we need to specific it
listening helps us to specifically focus
listening helps us to focus. So what
does that mean? What does focus mean?
Okay
you you have the camera on your phone
and you focus it, right? You use it, you
focus it. Maybe things are blurry and
then you focus it. What does what does
it do when you focus?
>> Yeah. So the object becomes clear,
object becomes sharper, right? So there
is clarity. So that is what focus means,
which means you um zero in on one
particular thing, but you're not
focusing on everything, right? You're
excluding a lot of things. when you
focus on a particular object let's say
you know I focus on this then the
background you will notice is not in
focus you know have you tried that right
maybe if there's an object here and then
object far away you know somebody's
standing there somebody's standing here
and then you f you can only focus on
yeah you can take a picture uh with both
but then if you want a sharp picture if
you focus on the one who's in front then
the other one is in a is is actually out
of focus like blurry things. So you can
so when you focus on something when
something becomes sharper the other
things which means it's excluded right.
So what are we focusing on? We are
focusing on the listener which means we
are when we are focusing on the listener
and you're focusing on the message that
the person is conveying. Right? The
other things which could be distracting
are excluded. Right? The other things
are excluded. Maybe there is noise.
Maybe there is some distraction that is
excluded. So what helps listening helps
right? So we get to understand what the
person is saying. We get an accurate
view of what the person is saying. We
get to understand you know just by the
words listening to the words of the
person we understand correctly. Now the
person maybe could be saying certain
things right the way they have
understood it and maybe they are saying
that this is the problem. But then if
you listen carefully, if you listen to
the words, if you listen to the like not
even the word the nonverbal thing of
what what that person's uh sharing, then
we begin to get a very accurate picture,
right? Maybe that person is angry but
then the words are not angry, right? But
then you put both together and that
happens only when you listen, right?
You're observing and then you get the
clear idea. The person maybe is you know
maybe he's saying okay uh uh you know
you you're asking for permission right
you're saying can I go right and the
person says okay go no problem just go
but then based on the tone and based on
the expression of the person then you
realize was this person really giving a
wholehearted yes or was it a very angry
yes because you been troubling that
person and then that you know that
person says okay I give permission you
know just go. So you begin to you get
that uh accurate understanding only when
we listen only when we listen carefully
right and that's very important right so
listening also you know we we are
conveying that we are showing interest
we are show concentrating it also
encourages the person to share
you know I'm sure you've noticed that
you know sometimes we speak and the
person is able to share only 10% okay
you're asking the question but that
person is not sharing. You're asking the
question um and that's it. You know that
person shares about 10 but then you ask
a few more questions and you show
interest in what the person is saying
then you realize the person is actually
talking more right they begin to share
more they begin to share about the
problem they begin to give information
that actually help you solve the problem
right but if you're not listening we
will not get that information right they
say you know most people when they talk
about issues when they talk about
challenges or when they talk about a
problem right they leave out 20%.
Like even the person who's actually
sharing a lot right they leave out 20%
and that 20%
is what is required to solve the problem
right they they're saying okay I have a
problem with this I have a problem with
that but that 20% they leave out you
know they withhold for whatever reason
right maybe they don't feel comfortable
talking about it maybe they don't you
know they are fearful of it or maybe
they think that okay maybe this is
insignificant And for whatever reason
that 20% they leave out but that 20% is
what is required. That is what is
required to solve the problem. Like even
in our own cases you know we we go to
talk to another person about some
challenges that we are going through but
for some reason we hold back certain
things you know we think okay this
person maybe this is not required or
maybe this is um you know what will that
person think if I share this you know
that we hold back that thing. um but
that is what is required. So in order to
get the picture, full picture of the
problem, we need to be able to listen so
that the person can share. Okay. So um
principles of listening uh there are 10
principles. I'm just going to quickly go
through that. Right? So stop talking.
That is a principle number one. Right?
Don't talk, listen. Right? Have you been
in a situation where you are saying
something and the other person is
finishing the sentence? Right? You're
saying you know this morning you got up
I I went I went to the kitchen what you
had coffee you know they're finishing it
right so so the thing is that is not a
good form of listening right so we need
to be able to just keep quiet in order
to enable the person to talk right so
that is the first principle uh the thing
is also listening takes energy yes or no
like I think today is who as sukesh you
asked the
uh or somebody asked you. Yeah, D as I
think you know like what if you know you
get emotionally there's an overload
right listening takes energy listening
takes effort right and so it is possible
highly possible that you become tired so
you need to mentally prepare yourself to
listen now if there's a long
conversation long meeting um and then
maybe it's going to take about 1 hour
you need to prepare yourself and say
okay you know this is what this is what
reality is I need to be able to give
this um you know uh this time and put in
that effort in order to listen right so
if you're not in that frame of mind
maybe reschedule the meeting and say
okay that happens right I'm not in the
frame of mind I'm a little bit tired so
let's you know schedule it for another
time right [clears throat] prepare
yourself to listen so that's something
that we need to understand we will it
will not come naturally it will not come
automatically we need to prepare
ourselves. We need to relax, right? Um
the third thing is to put the speaker or
the one who with whom we are talking
make them comfortable. If you're going
to make them uncomfortable by the things
you see say or how you're going to be
with them and behave, they are not going
to speak, right? They are not going to
if they are comfortable, they will
speak. They will share. If they're not
comfortable, they will not, right? So
don't threaten, don't intimidate.
They're not going to open up, right? Um
remove distractions, right? Focus on
what is being said. You know, suppose
you know now what is often happening is
we have our phones always with us,
right? Maybe we are talking to someone,
it's an important conversation and then
we get a message, right? the
notification comes and this also is an
important message right it's an
important message it's somebody's asking
a question so mid conversation or mids
sentence sometimes our focus is taken
away right we are we looking at the
phone and we say just one minute I need
to send this text right I need to
respond to this or the phone rings and
then you say can I just take this call
right just one thing it's an important
call. Now what if the phone was put on
you know maybe flight mode or you know
it was it was put in a non-responsive
kind of a mode where the notification
also does not come and if the phone
rings also it's not you know it's not
bothering you. So if you put it in that
manner then you will not be distracted
like for example my phone is on that
mode right now. So I don't get
distracted if there is some notification
that comes you know same here my email
is shut down my web WhatsApp is not
there so I don't get any notification
right in the middle of anything you know
in the middle of a class in the middle
of conversation so it's important for us
to do that remove any kind of
distraction you know sometimes we also
you know if we have a pen and a paper we
are drawing you know we're drawing
something uh tell yeah what are you
saying or we're reading something,
right? So, we need to be able to
remove all distractions, move things out
of the way so that we can um we can
actually focus on what is being spoken,
what is being said, right? Okay. Um the
fifth thing, understand, right?
Understand what the person is saying,
right? When I say understand, it's not
just the language, not just what the
content, but the point of view, right?
Um
sometimes we are not able to agree right
but we can say okay I understand what
you're here saying I hear what you're
saying right um and it's a totally
different thing which you are totally
not in agreement with right but we can
empathize right we say okay yeah just go
on um and and you don't have to agree
right let that person might say you know
uh I think um you know violence is good
in If you know let's say somebody comes
and this thing and you need to retaliate
you need violence is good and say so
what will you say to that you know you
you want to you want to hear the person
out and the person will notice on your
face itself that you're not in agreement
right
so how can we encourage the person to
continue speaking at the same time you
know which means empathizing with them
at the same time you know not in
agreement you're not in agreement with
the content of what they're saying. How
do we do that? So the thing is to you
know to to communicate to them and say
okay yeah just continue to share. I want
to I'm hearing I'm listening. Go ahead.
I'm listening. Yeah. So this is what you
feel right that violence is good. This
is what you feel that that things are
not great you know whatever it is right?
So we can ask those questions but we
don't have to be in agreement. We don't
have to say yeah yeah yeah I also I also
believe that you know we need to hit
back I also believe that um you know
things are you know we don't have to say
that we don't have to be you know say or
not being true to ourselves like we
don't have to do that right [snorts]
okay the next next thing is to be
patient
some people take a long time to speak
[laughter]
right and you're waiting where is this
going when will this end?
I remember you know once um I was
talking to someone and and this person
also you know uh he of course he didn't
have a language problem but that was his
manner of speaking right many years ago
this person was here now he's not in
Bangalore so I can safely say talk about
him but this person will say hey Jake
and I'll be like yeah and then pause and
it's worse if it's on a phone right
because I can't I can't even it's not a
video call uh Hey J, you know what? I'm
saying I'm listening. Yeah, tell me. And
then time goes like this, right? He's
not saying anything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Tell me. Tell me what is it? So I have
to, you know, prompt and then he's
taking his time, right? And all the
while I'm I'm losing I'm I'm being very
impatient. I'm like, okay, u you know,
what is it that you want to do? What
what do you want to talk about? I'm just
putting words in his mouth, right? So we
can't do that. Yes, some people will be
will be slow, right? And we just need to
we just need to slow down. Okay, can do
we not do we talk now or do we talk
later, right? What is it that you want
to talk about and hopefully they'll pick
up speed, right? So, we need to be
patient, right? when it comes to certain
people and so don't interrupt them um
because then they might actually get
distracted from what they want to say.
Uh they might not finish what they want
to say, right? Um avoid personal
prejudice. What does that mean? Don't
let that person's mannerism, tone of
voice, you know, distract you from what
they are actually saying. Right? Some
people's mannerism put you off.
Let's be honest, right? The maybe the
words they use, you know, sometimes uh
they keep repeating certain words and it
puts you off, right? But don't get um
prejudiced by that. Prejudice means
what? you judge before they're going to
say anything. You judge, right? Ah, this
person, okay, he's going to talk about
this. Um, and then you are you are fully
defensive, right? Uh, let's say that
that happens, right? That happens in a
maybe it's a workshop that you're
conducting and you know that person when
they begin to put their hand up and say,
I have a question, you know, oh no, it
is going to they're going to hijack this
whole session. Another half an hour is
going to go, right? But
but it's okay. It's sometimes when it
because the the what what they're going
to be asking, what they're going to be
sharing, it's not going to be relevant.
It's not going to be helpful, but they
just want to be heard. Yeah. So, we
might have to Yes. Give them an
opportunity, but midway do that course
correction, right? But don't be
prejudiced every time they say I have
something to share or I have something
to ask. Uh don't be prejudiced and don't
shut down, right?
Okay. Then uh listen to the tone, right?
The tone and volume is also
communicating a message. Uh they might
say some happy things. The words are
happy, the words are peaceful, but the
volume and the tone is not. So you know
that's a disconnect. Okay. Uh listen for
the ideas, not just the words, right? So
what does that mean? That means u you
know some people are not great
communicators,
right? when they say it's not because
they don't know the language. They know
the language but they are not actually
communicating in a logical sense. It's
not from start to finish. It is like
introduction. Maybe they start with a
conclusion and then go into you know the
introduction or they go into it's not
logical right because maybe their
thoughts are all scrambled and so
therefore they are communicating in a
way that is not structured right so does
that mean that uh you're not going to
receive from what they have to say you
know you you'll be meeting with all
kinds of people right all kinds of
people maybe you're ministering to all
kinds of people, maybe you're pastoring
all kinds of people, right? So maybe
what they whatever they are sharing is
is not does not is not logical, is not
structured. So we mean we need to not
get distracted
but try to get the idea of what they are
communicating and maybe we can ask
questions. Okay, is this what you're
saying? Is this what you're saying? You
know, is this what you're actually
asking? Is this what you're sharing? So
that will help, right? So uh wait and
watch for non-verbal communication right
so this uh person the came up with this
person Judy Bronwell of Cornell
University came up with what is called
the hura model of listening which is
used by lot of people when it comes to
training it is used in the corporates
the hura model so first one is h u r i e
r right first one is hearing okay so it
um you pick up non-verbal what signals
you hear you receive from the person.
Second one U is understand. Okay, we
looked at that. Okay, you hear, you
process, you understand. Third one, R is
to remember.
What is that person saying? Do you
remember, right? Sometimes that person
says by the and the person goes to the
second third line, we have forgotten
already, right? what they said first and
then that person is like know I just
told you know you're asking some other
question because you've forgotten what
they asked what they said and then that
person gets irritated a little bit no I
just told you you know I'm coming from
here oh yes yes yes I understand so
remember what they're saying right
interpret meaning interpretation is to
translate what they're saying interpret
is also to um to maybe there certain
things are difficult what they've said
but interpret into the meaning of what
they're saying especially this example
of people if if we if the communication
is not structured, if the communication
is not logical um you know we need to
interpret it so that we can understand
it right. E stands for evaluating right?
So we need to evaluate
but we cannot come to prejudiced or
biased conclusions. Right? You need to
evaluate especially let's say you're
talking to you're you need to decide you
need to judge between two viewpoints
right maybe you're here you're there to
resolve a conflict you need to evaluate
okay and it's part of the listening
process and it's part of the um the
conflict resolution right but don't
evaluate before you get the full
information right don't come to
conclusion don't in In in other in other
uh words don't prejudge
right make sure you receive all the
information and then the last thing is
to respond right uh response uh
demonstrates that you have understood
things and u it also helps right so uh
we might think okay what is this big
deal about listening you know we listen
but some for the thing is for some of us
listening could come very naturally
we're great listeners
you know um I remember once my te once
when I went for a parent teacher meeting
the teacher had a complaint about my
daughter like she's saying she makes the
other person talk right in class she's
asked a question maybe she tells some
asks the person the friend or you know
classmate sitting next to her asks a
question and then she's just nodding
she's just listening and then that
person is you know not listening to the
that person is talking and your daughter
is you know doing this. So they had they
had a you know complaint. So we said um
so you know the thing is this
we need to respond and our response
actually helps that person to
communicate and uh give out more
information and uh and that that that is
true you know that is effective uh
effectively it helps and um
but we need to make sure that um our
response response helps the person to
share our response
communicates to that person that we have
actually understood we have heard right
so some of us are great listeners and
listening
um okay uh is there any question just
one second sorry
no okay okay some of us listen well some
of but then uh sometimes you know we we
need to really brush up on the skill to
listen. Okay. Uh some of us struggle to
listen, right? Because our mind is on
various things and u we are al already
thinking of things to say, right? So
what are some barriers to effective
communication, right? Or listening,
right? We start to think about what we
are going to say. That's a big barrier,
right? Maybe the person is asking
something. we start to reply or we start
to think about uh other things right and
what we need to reply etc right and also
sometimes what happens is the speech
rate right and processing rate is
different right look at this average
speech rate what is the speech rate the
number of words that someone speaks
right in a minute that is the rate of
speech right so they did a study and
then average rate speech speed of rate I
mean sorry uh rate of speech is 125 175
words a minute right whereas we can
actually process more than that our
brain is capable of processing more
words than that right so what happens is
um brain goes into overdrive okay let me
process let me think about something
else okay what do I need to do after
this and then we come back to the
conversation right so we need to kind of
discipline ourselves right um yeah
clarity of the speaker what the is al is
also something that affects us and we
could be distracted by the physical
appearance of the person who's speaking
to us. So all these are barriers to
effective listening. Okay. But we need
to develop the skill. Okay. Now I just
want to um uh do a small exercise. Okay.
Um I want us to like watch this video.
Maybe um
you can actually listen to it and uh and
tell me you know what you understand out
of this right okay um
if some of you can log in you can I
think uh one of you right
okay let's take a look at
Okay.
You'll um
listen to it. Okay.
Okay. We'll start here.
>> I can't hear the sound. Online.
>> Um online is you're not able to hear the
audio, is it?
>> Yeah. I think audible. Audible. you are
enabled.
>> Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. Just a minute.
Let me just see if I need to make a
shift. I mean,
um,
okay. Let me see.
>> Okay. Play again.
>> Uh, you know, if I'm coming from a
corporate background, how am I going to
adapt into this ministry? And sometimes
also if you want to move out of ministry
at any point back into the corporate um
world uh will my employers take my
church experience seriously? So these
are some of the common questions that
are discussed about working uh for
church. So uh can you just uh speak
about what are some things that we can
you know sort of think differently or
change our perspective and uh what do
you have to say about you know this
common misconception I would say
>> yeah yeah I think it's a important
question to talk about
>> and um I'm speaking mainly of course
from a urban context where we as a
church at least at ABC and as an
organization
uh we uh are doing a lot of good work in
terms of uh let's say maybe uh
organization in terms of best practices
in in the way we are structured and the
systems the processes that we use uh in
terms of the use of media the use of
technology
>> uh and all of that we we try to or let's
say not we try to but we are using you
know
>> uh what
>> any other organization you know in the
corporate world would be using. So
therefore one is we do need people
>> who have those kind of skills which
generally are considered you know useful
in the corporate world but they don't we
don't normally think of you know will it
have a use in a ministry context. So the
answer is yes we definitely need those
kinds of people. we need them uh uh to
be part of the organization
>> uh to help us do the work of the
ministry and uh because of the way we
are functioning I think we try to you
know we look at similar things I'm not
saying exactly the same things because
of course our culture would I think the
big difference between the corporate and
the church would be the culture
>> where and what drives us you know so in
in in a in in a in a corporate setting a
profit motive That's a primary driver
>> here. Our culture is kingdom culture and
it's more on let's
>> serve the people. Let's advance God's
kingdom. So that's a big contrast. But
other than that, the the way we go about
doing things, we want to do them well.
And so the practices or the best
practices are very similar. They apply
across the board. And so when somebody
cons is considering you know uh even
wanting to move back from ministry into
the corporate I think that transition uh
would be seamless. they can carry with
them the rich learning, the experience
and also most more importantly you know
the the values that we live out which I
think are becoming more important even
in the marketplace
>> you know um and and I'm just thinking
about that the book good to great by Jim
Collins uh and and in that book
he's he's talking he's of course
addressing the corporate world how
organizations can go from being good to
great but if you look at the content of
that book. It's like it's almost like
copied kingdom values, right? So you're
saying so here is um a a business
leader, a thought leader in the
corporate world and he's telling
organizations to go from good to great
you need these values and it's the
values that we actually live out in
church. Yeah. In a church organization
there are kingdom values. So I would
say, you know, if somebody's
transitioning back from going from the
church organization into the corporate,
you're actually going to help
organizations go from good to great, you
know, uh because of the values that you
carry.
>> Um the other thing that you did mention
of course is
uh pay and yeah, we could we could talk
about that if you want to ask me a
little detailed question.
>> Okay.
Um, just one second. Sorry. U
Okay. So,
what was this conversation about?
Okay. One one person. It's about
>> area in the church. Okay. Fine. Right.
Okay. Okay. So someone else maybe online
class also um what was a question which
the person asked pastor Ashish
>> uh sir the question is like once we've
been serving in the church and uh if you
want to move to the corporate segments
and uh whether that experience can be
valued or how it is going to be and in
which way they are going to take it the
corporate world is going to take it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I think that's um thank you. So
that's part of the question right that's
part of the question. So the um so the
the so the question uh also had this
whole aspect of several things you know
uh whether the pay about the uh about
the being being in the corporate world
moving from the uh corporate world into
church whether it be lucrative and also
whether we can move back you know you
work in the church for some time and
then you want to let's say you want to
move back to the corporate world you
know how will that be seen
etc. Right. Okay. Okay. So, what what
color shirt was Bast wearing?
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
was it gray? Blue?
>> Yeah,
>> it is a gray shirt. On what leg was his
Bible on?
>> Right leg.
left leg.
[laughter]
>> Left leg
>> on his left leg. He had the Bible on his
left leg. Okay. Okay. So,
so in response to the question, what was
the first point that Pastor Ashi shared
in response to
Phoebe's question? What was the first
point?
Are you looking into the Bible?
>> [laughter]
[clears throat]
>> Okay. [laughter]
Uh
what was the first
>> he shared about
>> Yeah. Go ahead.
>> He shared about the corporate setup.
>> One sec. One sec. Sorry. Sorry.
>> Um he shared about
>> the corporate setup and operations of
APC church.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He he was drawing from um
the church. Um yeah uh but uh yeah can
you just share a little more about what
he what he spoke?
>> So he talked he went he went about to
talk about the organization the culture
and how actually it can assimilate even
people from the corporate. He was kind
of showing that yes we we do take people
from the corporate and the values in the
corporate whereas they are profit here
they are kingdom values and they he was
kind of saying they fit very well and
they are needed in the church.
>> Yeah just hang on just a minute. So why
did he say that u you know the skills
and everything that is in the world
uh is required here.
uh did he make a point that
>> yes he was he was trying to say that
best practices are not only required in
the corporate even in the church we we
require those best practices right right
so he was talking about how we are in
the media the technology everything is
being used so we need people with that
skill and that best practice
uh in the church as well as an
organization not just the corporate but
you know we we need that Okay. Yeah.
Thank you. Okay. So, another question,
right? What what did he say was the big
difference between a corporate and the
and the church as an organization.
>> So, the values which we learned from the
church but that is being carried forward
towards the corporate world which is
very important.
>> True. True. But what what did he say was
the big difference
>> to serve people?
And
>> so the ideologies that carry from a
corporate world uh which u from a
corporate world is totally different
from the ideologies of the normal uh uh
working uh environment
>> and we need to inculcate the Christian
values into our corporate world wherein
we we come across various uh people from
various uh like gentiles basically who
are who are also running the corporate
world but um we need to we need to
maintain those Christian values within
us and also uh trying
>> um so sorry to interrupt but you used
one particular you know uh thing as a
differentiator you know one big
difference
>> it was the culture the the the culture
in the corporate and the culture in the
church are
fundamentally different
>> yeah the that was the cult the culture
yeah you're right the culture was
different and also you know if you if
you notice he used the The motive,
right? The motive in a corporate uh
would be profit. Why are we here?
I need to make money. I need to make a
profit. And so bills can be paid
everything. And then you know that's the
thing. The profitability is the motive
for why the organization exists.
Now that is not the same as the church.
The church does not exist because it
needs to make profits. Right? the church
is there to serve. So that's the big
differentiator between the church and
the corporate. So okay. So what else did
he say about um
um
about uh the skill sets and the values
skills and values of the people working
in the church? Uh what did he say about
that?
So the skills and the values in uh in
corporates in terms of technology can be
brought into our domain in the church
for the for the betterment of the people
who uh I mean you can represent your um
say for example your preaching skills
and everything onto the media.
>> So we require a specialized skilled
effort coming from different people uh
who are trained in that domain.
>> Yeah.
>> So that is the only thing that we can
carry. We cannot carry the cultures and
the traditions of the corporate world
and then incorporate it back to the
church.
>> Okay. And then so so if uh you know
skills, culture, values, everything um
you know from the church uh did he say
anything about that can actually if a
person is you know going back into the
corporate world uh is there something
that the person can carry into the
corporate world?
Yes, he gave the example of the book by
the writer
um from good to great that what we carry
from the church will actually make
>> will make the corporate space great
>> right and um yeah thank you um so it's
talking talking about the author uh and
the and the title of the book
I think you mentioned it but I'll just
ask uh when you don't have to say but
what is the title of the book the
dimension.
>> From good to great by somebody callings.
[laughter]
>> Yeah, I think uh husband and wife you
guys are
uh yeah, good to great is the name of
the book and uh the author Jim Collins,
right? And the author talks about um uh
the some of the things of the book is
exactly what we would see in a kingdom
culture. Kingdom culture, kingdom
values, what we would want to see in a
uh in a in an organization which is uh
into ministry or church, you know,
that's something that he mentioned,
right? Okay. So, we just listened for
about not even 5 minutes, right? Maybe 5
minutes. But you see that um there are
things that we can actually miss out. Um
there are things that um uh you know we
maybe you know because of what they've
been saying uh maybe your mind goes on a
different direction you know you're
think or it it maybe you know you you're
thinking about okay when did this person
say last or whatever you know you can
get distracted in so many ways and so
uh the point being that listening takes
effort listening takes skill right even
in 5 minutes we actually do a lost track
um you know so many things but we also
retained so many things and I think all
of like based on all all that what you
shared uh we've also retained you know
so many things right so the thing is um
I don't know if we if we would if would
have listened uh you know as much
carefully
if we were not actually talking about
listening skills right maybe if we're
talking about something else would we
have actually given so much of you
importance and concentrated
concentration uh to what whatever we
watched right that we heard so so that's
the thing you know for us to actually
train ourselves right and I and we know
that you know we cannot do this 100% of
the time right if we if we are working
for about 8 hours or 9 hours or 10 hours
in a day we we can't do this all the
time right we need to um rest refresh
our mind our thinking and rejuvenate
ourselves and only then we'll be able to
do it. So which means that we need to
you know kind of um actively right do
this actively listen and we need to give
it importance right in our own lives in
our ministry um in our working career
whatever scenario there is uh we need
this will be helpful for us and it's a
particular ability that we need to
develop right okay so we'll stop here
and Then we'll pick it up next class.
Right. Thank you. God bless. Bye.
>> Thank you, sir.
>> Right. God bless.