Kevin Bacon Explains How to Succeed at Any Role, in Any Situation | Impact Theory

I think that trying to generate your own material will not only maybe you'll get it made but it'll also give you a better sense of what it is that you want to do and the other thing is that you know back when I was starting out to get a camera and an editing Bay and a Sam TAC package you know that was that was a big deal like that was a big investment and it was all you know thirty five-millimeter and you know na grows and you can all all kinds of like you know I mean back I mean now you know it's all right here you know don't make your movie hey everybody I hope you enjoyed this episode brought to you by our sponsors at blinka study welcome to impact theory today's guest is one of the most prolific actors to make a home on the big screen having starred in a litany of the most iconic films in the history of cinema across five different decades I might add there are precious few actors who have had the kind of towering career that he's already had and he's still going strong and that really isn't empty hyperbole this is just a tiny fraction of his unbelievable filmography Footloose Animal House diner a few good men Friday the 13th Apollo 13 Mystic River x-men first class planes trains and automobiles and Oliver Stone's widely celebrated retelling of the assassination of America's 35th president JFK he's worked alongside such industry Titans as Meryl Streep Sean Penn Clint Eastwood Tom Cruise Tom Hanks John Lithgow Kevin Costner and the iconic Jack Nicholson to name but a few and that's just his film work he's also made the jump to TV to take part in the new Golden Age of storytelling which shows like the following I love dick taking chance for which he won a Golden Globe for his performance so please help me in welcoming the man that none of us are separated from by more than six degrees the star of the new horror thriller you should have left the Dairy actor Kevin Bacon Kevin welcome to the show man thanks for having me dude an absolute absolute pleasure your career is crazy when I think about the number of films that you've been in that have really left their mark on cinema is pretty staggering what is it like right now given the shutdown of the film industry how's that been do you see a path forward like when are we going to get back to sort of business as usual well I would start by saying just in general about the shutdown you know I I try to wake up every day and feel as much gratitude as I can for the fact that I have a roof over my head and I've got plenty of food to eat and that I live a very privileged lifestyle that I have my and my wife is with me and we have our health and you know at this point my family is all healthy on the youngest of six and I have two children myself my wife has a lot of people and her family and everyone seems to be pretty healthy so that that's that's worth try to start each day just with that kind of you know feeling of being feeling pretty lucky in this in this situation I'm someone who really likes to work as you probably see from my IMDB page there were a lot of times when I probably you know just went to work because I just wanted to be busy possibly without really you know being as choosy as I should have been and and it's just a it's just a really strong work ethic that I have you know it's a combination of that and to come and having a strong work ethic and also you know having been in situations where you know I didn't have a pot to piss in and and every job I thought was gonna be my last and and I was you know trying to you know I was writing out the money was leaving my bank account I was trying to you know just work to put something back in there and and so I always have this somebody who offers me something or gives me an opportunity to go I'm like I better take it because you know this may be it I'm trying to get better about being choosy when you when you look at that you know you go if you're really shut down for month after month it's it's not it's not a vacation and I don't really like vacations to tell you the truth I don't really like to me to have vacation that much I mean we will do like a Christmas kind of you know you kind of have to shut down because the whole industry shuts down but generally my wife and I both of us even though we love home and we love to you know cook and we're not people that like to go out to premieres and do all that kind of stuff we are vagabonds and we are our own version of workaholics we now you've talked about actually enjoying being on a tour bus yeah so the vague-abonding thing like as somebody who's known for having a pretty solid home life what is it about the call of the road enjoying being on the tour bus and traveling around I'm assuming most of the time you and your wife are off on different projects so what what is the call of the road well when I say you know when I talk about the when I talk about the tour bus you know I'm I'm really just saying that in general my life has been a tour bus even before we put the band together because you know people kind of think that if you're an actor you live in Hollywood and then you do all your work in Hollywood and that's really not the case I mean I think I've probably made a movie or a TV show in in at least 50% of the states in this in this between the two of us let's say you know so we're going from place to place to place and we're bouncing back and forth from New York to to LA to wherever so we always feel like our suitcases are packed it's like we have a very very solid kind of home situation but we always know that those suitcases are packed and in a weird kind of way that really feeds us now what is it about I don't know we're running from something or or you know I don't I'm not really sure what the what the psychological reason for that is but I know that it's something that feeds both of us and it's do you ever explored that in your lyrics I know you've talked about how your lyrics are a lot more personal so what in writing those lyrics what what are some of the ideas you explore I've heard you sort of tease before like are we running towards something we're running away from something but really in your lyrics I imagine you've explored it what what is sort of the the layer revealed there yeah I I definitely explore it in my lyrics but a lot of times but listen I wouldn't be alone in in that as a songwriter to talk about the road let's face it I mean I'm not the first guy who talked about the road I mean the last thing I think I probably wrote around that thing was a was a song called I feel you and I was on the road and we were in we pulled into Jackson Mississippi and and and I was struck with seeing this old Greyhound bus station and they had a plaque about the the Freedom Riders who would come through Jackson Mississippi during the civil rights movement and I just kind of kicked this song off with that but it was really about it's called life I feel you what's a common thing it's called I feel you yeah and it's really about feeling her you know wherever I am that that if you really care about somebody and you're on the road is to there's two options one is that you know it completely [ __ ] up your relationship and you see that happen a lot of times people you know have a hard time pulling it together and the other is that you just try to I don't know trying to keep that person with you in some sort of a way and it's challenging you know that's challenging you know there's a lot to be to do with that well I'm actually really interested about that so my wife and I my wife's British so at the beginning of our relationship it was long distance and I realized that just like you said I had a choice I could sort of flip a switch in my head and distance between us and not sort of laments over the absence in the distance or I could really like lean into that sort of ache and missing her and I found that it was actually way more productive to lean in even though it made it hurt more and that it made me really hate being a part but it it kept this sort of magnetism going is that a strategy that you employ yeah sure absence makes the heart grow fonder yeah I mean that's uh that's a that's a definite strategy and na and I do I do lean into it and you know we have we have many many years where except for a couple of projects you know where I was in Africa and she was working someplace else and and another time I think I was you know we kept it down to our best ability we kept it down to two weeks and sometimes we would fly to the middle of the country just to meet you know if we were on either side just to you know make the trip and just kind of randomly and we spent a lot of time in airports and a lot of time on airplanes and and and planes trains and automobiles so listen we are we we are we're we're people that like to travel so that so being in this kind of a lot down and being such a you know while working kind of person you I'm 61 years old and there's a lot of people who are slowing down playing golf you know whatever taking a boat out or you know whatever it is that they read in the book sitting on the couch watching you know things that you hear people say I just wanna you know and I I get it in the truth is it I'm not a you know I don't I don't dig ditches you know I'm a professional pretender so I live a very tough to like my lifestyle it's it's it's very cushy but I also really have no desire to slow down at this point in my life and so what I find is that during this time I find a way to be busy you know I wake up and give myself some kind of a job and it could be cleaning out the basement or could be writing a song or it could be developing the movie idea could be talking about you know something of a charitable nature or whatever it is but I definitely give myself a job pretty much every day and I realized that I think that's what I do anyway you know like my family makes fun of me because if we do end up on some kind of vacation which we do sometimes at Christmas I'm there with you know a guidebook so I've like scheduled every day within an inch of its life and it's not I'm not like it let's go down to the beach and just like sit I'm like we we're going doing this we're going doing that you know that's interesting so when you think about getting old like are you imagining sort of a god Peter fond I think it was that was you know on Golden Pond and he was like super if I can old is that it like we're acting until we're in the coffin or have you crossed some sort of if I manage to do this then I'll I'll sort of gracefully go into true old age you know what I think is that you know Peter Fonda he was the right guy to play that part and that's one of the nice things about the gig that I have you know it's it's different than say you know if you're if you're a surgeon you know you gotta say it's time you know you it's time my hands are too shaky my mind is not where it used to be if you're a football player you know your body is no longer able to do those things that it could do if you're an actor there's old guys to play and there's things that you can explore because what's the parts that you're getting is somehow starting to line up with with what you're feeling and what you're going through in your life and and you know my theory about the acting thing for me is to use yourself and lose yourself because every part that I go into what else do I have to use but the experiences that I've had the things that in my body in my face and my voice and you know all my stuff but I want to lose myself into the role I don't want to feel like it's Kevin so I yeah I'm not gonna I'm totally fine with no longer you know kind of being whatever a whatever I'll lead character you know and in in a in a movie situation should be but you know the truth is is I was never really that guy anyway I had a moment you know and footless where I was kind of like the guy but when you really look at at what's worked for me it's always been character parts so if I'm gonna you know continue the rest of my career as a character actor I think that's great I also feel the same way about you know songwriting and some rings a little different because every time I write a song I feel like the last one I wrote and so I don't know if that tap you know has the potential of being turned off or or whether or not at least anything that I would be proud of would be turned off but when it comes to acting I want to be you know Peter Fonda in on cold and thon and then just die you know and that would be great yeah when I so the recent movie that you did or at least the one that came out you should have left the matically that is really interesting to me and seems to line up with where you're at now and I know that you say that you actually don't want to step into a character that is Kevin and obviously that character isn't you but fanatically when I think about some of the things you've talked so powerfully about you really touch on that in the movie which by the way is creepy as [ __ ] and so I have no doubt that that one it was blum house right mm-hmm yeah yeah so I mean Jesus between the you and the talent behind the camera and then partnering up with Blum House I'm super excited to see how far that one goes very very interesting was that part of what jury did the project I know that you actually shepherded the project but was that that no of being an older guy who's sort of in in the movie anyway representing that transition of age by being married to somebody younger and the anxieties that that produces was that something specifically you wanted to pursue because of that theme yeah I think that the writer/director is in David kept he he directed me in a film called stir of echoes twenty years ago and we had a really good relationship and we actually had an actual real old friendship that has lasted through those 20 years and I kept kind of I don't know just wanting bugging him about doing something together and Kira you know actually tossed out the idea of some kind of a a horror movie surrounding a marriage and and after 20 years tried to talk David into getting he hired me again that idea sort of sparked something in him and he's an amazing writer and so we started to knock these ideas around and pretty much right away he felt like it should be a second marriage and that and that we were talking about part of the paranoia it's and it's kind of what we were talking about before you know of being away from somebody and you know wondering you know if you see someone all the time than you know exactly is kind of who you think you know exactly like where they're at right but if they're gone or they're off in another world or at work or you know with colleagues or in this case on a movie set you know and and doing a sex scene sex scene yeah your mind can go a lot of different places so in order to kind of amplify that and also to give the character a sense of of losing his relevance we wanted to make his wife much younger than him and make her into an actor these are very kind of like specific things that we talked about very early on so yeah I think that's not what that's not specifically what's going on and in in in my relationship because my wife is younger than me but she's not that much younger than me David his own is his second marriage his wife is a bit younger than him but again it's not exactly the same thing but there are those kinds of themes were things that we talked about very specifically yeah marriage is obviously somewhere like as an interviewer I will just tell you as soon as we had gotten you to agree to be on the show I'm like I've got to ask him what the secret to along marriages and then of course in my research I find that you button get more annoyed about that question than just about it's like the same as people making you dance at a wedding to the Footloose theme song and but at the same time dude like you've created like the ultimate trap in your marriage and you guys still have this incredibly thriving marriage do you really see yourself as just sort of like I just do what I do or or like it just seems like there has to be some strategy that you guys are deploying hits I wish there was Smith I wish there what I do then I could tell you what the strategy was but I feel a couple of things about that one is that you know there's so much DNA and there's so much nurture versus nature that makes two people able to spend time together and I think that marriage to me look at the statistics it just doesn't work it's like we we set it up to be this big thing and we put it on this pedestal and we you know create these ceremonies so that it's actually supposed to be a bond that's from a higher power and you know God is there and then you spend all the money all the money you have you don't want your parents that mean he's been in the wedding and you're worried about you know insulting the people that don't come and and you know what happened II marriages survive not even in my industry but in in in America I don't really know is that a flirt or something like that you know so for me to say well this is what we do and if you do it you know it just it doesn't hold doesn't hold any water you know and I and the other the other thing about it is it's a it's as much a mystery to me as it is to anybody else and and the reason that I have a hard time with it is not that I don't not that I'm opposed to talking about it but generally when I'm asked about my marriage it's on a red carpet and they're looking for a sound bite or or it's an it's not in this kind of long-form situation or it's in it it's an interview but they're just gonna take like three little words and put it put it up there and that's to me frankly disrespectful to the marriage you know it's disrespectful to the people that are gonna try to read and go Alec Kevin Bacon says you know whatever you know she's my best friend there's some [ __ ] like that you know and but it's also disrespectful to the marriage so I really I don't know I do think that we started this out talking about the pandemic and I think that the pandemic has been a really interesting test for it you know you would kind of go well they've been together so long that it's not gonna be an issue for them but the truth is we've been together for us a long time as we spoke about always being able to splittin you know to me and always knowing that pretty soon we were gonna split you know and it literally yesterday you know the industry is maybe chipping away it started to get open and and if it does kick back in chances are I'll be working in New York and she'll be working in LA and because travel is now you know a little bit you know dicey we will probably be apart for a long more stretch than we were used to and we were laughing about it because I said it's gonna be fine you've had plenty of make it we've been able to bank we've been able to bank some serious you know hours that we've we've never spent this much time together in our marriage ever yeah that the the whole idea of being able to maintain a relationship when you have that sort of you're spreading apart you're coming back together which is again exactly what my wife and I went through at the beginning becomes a whole different question on whether you can navigate being together and it's interesting my wife and I have taken an incredibly tactical approach to being married I had from the time I was 14 I started having a recurring nightmare of being in a loveless marriage now I didn't recognize it at the time but my parents obviously were in well that's what was happening to my parents so I was in the middle of it but I was too young to understand what was going on literally three weeks after I left for college my parents split up so I'm picking up on something growing up I start having this recurring nightmare and so when I got in deciding to propose to my wife was difficult that I was like oh man do I really want to do this I had always thought that I was never going to get married and so I was like nah I don't know about once I decided to propose then it was like okay I'm shutting that door like it's I'm only moving forward with this but I thought the only way to avoid being trapped is to like be aggressively open honest talk about it say like what do we have to do to make this rad like I don't want to be in a marriage that works I want to be in a marriage that's [ __ ] awesome like I want to I want this to be the most important thing in my life the most joyful thing in my life and so we have had because we were so young when we got together we've had to have like all of these hike rules what we call rules of engagement like how do you deal with an argument what does that look like how do you deal with distance and absence and you know there used to be times where because my wife would go home to see her family at Christmas and so I would just it would be you know maybe two weeks and I would be going crazy and out of my mind and so it was having to realize that was actually advantageous and to distance myself from her emotionally would be deeply problematic and so I'm it's very interesting to me that you guys have had such a tremendously successful relationship being very and I don't know if you would use the word laissez-faire so stop me if that doesn't feel right but but just a more sort of natural take what what may come and to your point about you know nature and nurture it's interesting how it plays out yeah I wrote a song called play which was probably I guess two or three songs ago that we released and it was a little bit of a reaction to these very things and you know people will often say to me it's a lot of work it's a lot of work and listen I I for what for one person and two people like if you will not offend me if you're like you're a crazy [ __ ] now talking about this is work I don't mind all that stuff is working for you how long you been married we've been married for 18 years okay so it's working right because that's a that's a lot that's um you know that's like a that's like a Hollywood Platinum and you know so I so so but this song that I wrote is called play and it's the basis of it is when you really ask me like what is it the work that we put in or is that the fact that we'd like to play together and I've kind of feel like for us it's a little bit more the fact that we'd like to play together like do you guys sing together all the time yeah I I didn't realise one I didn't realize how well you could sing [ __ ] dude your voice is incredible uh and then your wife's voice is amazing was that part of what sparked for you guys initially no no well music kind of was we would sing along to records and we had a we had a kind of when we first met we had a like a freakishly kind of shared idea about things that we liked and artists that we were really big on so we kind of bonded on that and we would we would sing along and you know when we first put the band together she would sometimes come up and sing harmony and that she kind she kind of left stop doing that so yeah we would sing at about probably four years ago or so she had never picked up an instrument and I got her ukulele and she started playing and and then you know we would play together and and yeah so that's a that's definitely a part of a part of what we do in this family um you know my kids are both musicians and so your son scored a movie that you and cured it together is yeah he remembers directed the movie and he scored that he also scored a this podcast that I had recently called the last degree of Kevin Bacon which was a comedy half-hour comedy podcast and in a totally different sort of genre thing you know it was like I'm its comedy and Cure's movie was much more you know drama sentimental kind of drama so yeah he's very pleased he's a talented kid the the six degrees of Kevin Bacon thing that that is that's a level of Fame that has got to be a little strange I'm actually curious like one you're being famous and the way that you're famous your name is Kevin Bacon right it's not Kevin it's Kevin Bacon to us and the when that game came out and people started playing it I remember thinking like this is crazy like your name has transcended even you it's like it's now like this bigger thing is that weird to have like other people running with that game your name some piece of your identity it's it's super intriguing yeah well I've talked and I feel that Fame is a very strange beast you know and you know at first I was very resistant to the game in fact I was for somebody that was so hungry to be famous when I got famous I was really like very uncomfortable with it you know and I really was truly hungry as a kid to become what my dad my dad was famous in Philadelphia and and you know he he was really into his own fame and his own legacy it was something you know you talked about you know relevance and I was kind of push I pushed back on that a lot at the same time wanting that kind of Fame and I think I wanted to be more famous than him basically is it true dad was on the cover of Time magazine yeah it was yeah in the 60s of talking about American cities and he was he fought very hard for to bring vitality back to the Centers of cities he loves cities and that was at a time you know when there was kind of you know suburban life was the one that was the most desirable white flight you know they called it and and he was a big proponent not just to Philadelphia but all over of like having city's operating be places where people could enjoy their life and be in close proximity to each other and so he was really famous for for that kind of stuff urban renewal I guess they called it and and and I was so driven but when the when I got really famous I got really kind of resistant of it and I'm really over that over time learned to live with it in the same way that I've learned to you know be okay with the with the game I thought it was a joke basically at my expense that all that being said you know as as cool as the game is and and we have gotten a chance to take it and take me out of the concept because a lot of times I feel like it was it's really not about me you know it's really about the hunger that we have connectivity as a people as a as a nation as a globe as a global entity that's that's the reason why Facebook blew up and that's the reason why social media is what social media is it's a you know it's that hunger interesting so one of my favorite stories about you is your take on diner and this dude you probably know this about yourself you're maybe you're never gonna say it out loud so I will say it for you and this is something that really inspires me so take diner right so you're with these extraordinary improv artists and you realize okay I'm not sure I'm yet where I want to be with improv so I know the value that I can bring is to to sit back and react and give the camera somewhere else to go to help the audience really connect with what's happening and I thought that's so [ __ ] brilliant or when you said yeah you know what I don't actually want to pursue being a leading man I want to character actor which I think has given you the career that it's given you because you can have that level of versatility I agree there's like a powerful humility in that so it I get this sort of downplay of well you know I've just been in a lot of ensemble pieces but yeah I think there's something more profound than that I mean in terms of well I I completely agree with the character thing I mean I I always was a character actor I had a moment as a leading man I was trying to chase still being a leading man when I went wait a second you're really a character actor because they're all characters even if you got the biggest part in the in the show it's a character in my mind you know um and that was a that was a seminal kind of moment for me for sure but the other thing I'll say about something like like diner and somehow somehow instinctually I think I knew this and I can't really pinpoint what it was and that is that in in my in in our in our business in the movie business I got into it because I was hoping for the feeling of playing in a band you don't mean that there was going to be a brotherhood and a sisterhood of actors and I felt that for a while when I was doing theater and I was doing a lot of you know regional theatre off Broadway theater and nobody was really a big star everyone was kind but there are people that are older than made and had more experience but had bigger parts or whatever but there was really this feeling that we were getting together to put the play across and then to put the seating across and and that in the same way that the bass bass player has to listen to the drummer if you two people are playing in a scene you have to be you have to you have to be dancing you know you have to has to be has to be harmony there has to be a feeling there when you get onto a movie set right away it's different somebody has a bigger trailer somebody is called to the set last so that they don't have to wait for you to show up pretty much right away the rumors are out about who's getting paid what they treat you different in a very hierarchical way and even in the in the shooting of a film there's a separation that's created between actors as opposed to a bringing together of actors every once in a while there's somebody that you know does a good job with that Barry Levinson being one you know put us in a shitty hotel in Baltimore and you know it's basically like you guys have to you know I feel like you're friends and you know so go hang out you know it was smart but if you start a scene and you feel like you're really related to yourself or multiple actors you shoot them a watch then the next time you do another set up your your there's there's some gear in between you and that actor and then you get to a close-up and there's even more gear there's even more light so there's even more cameras and you're sitting off in some corner on an Apple box on the end the actor is there you can barely see him and as the actor you start to go well all this is really about is my close-up so I don't have to feel this connection to this person anymore and then you go and you see the movie and you're cut out of your cut in or your whatever and so it created a feeling to me of every man for himself and a sort of kind of isolation and I think that I instinctually wanted to push back against that so you in the in the case of diner yeah I was looking around and I was thinking to myself boy everyone's doing so great and they're gonna get bigger parts and they're gonna be more impactful and they're gonna be you know but I think somehow I knew that I had to think about the play and the fact that this character has to fit into that group because if everybody in the is exactly the same then it's not going to be it's not going to have the dynamic that a group of friends would have yeah filmmaking compared to theater now I have very limited experience but I actually did get paid to act in a play when I was in high school oh wow the most surreal experience of my life so I was doing or like to just this was in Tacoma Washington Tacoma Actors Guild shout out I don't even know if they still exist but they did a summer thing with high school kids basically and I was doing that and then they would audition those kids for the play that Christmas season so it was a Christmas carol and I got cast and I missed my exit driving home three times because I was so excited I like was in a just a fog I couldn't believe it I was over the moon and my part could not have been smaller they had me playing like four or five different characters and a lot of what I did was move furniture between scenes and stuff but do when I say that I had the time of my life I felt very differently than your kids I was beyond excited to be missing school it was amazing and that was it had this like family environment and part of I think what creates that family environment is I talked to people a lot about when you embody something your brain goes oh this matters I feel this whatever and so if you're if as a character you're going through an emotion with another human being you begin to sort of muddle those things it's like whoa we've I've shared these emotions with you I've been robbed by weight I was just acting but because you're actually embodying it you do get that sense of connection and then oftentimes in theater you're you're having to disrobe in front of them you know right off the stage and so there's there's like a real physical intimacy to it all or to that was so [ __ ] cool and then I go to film school and just filmmaking as an art form has always captured my heart and soul and knew that that's what I wanted to do and because I've only ever worked on like really low budget films the just insane hours and they're like sleeping in the editing room and you know being there and trying to create moments with the actors in there no trailers no hierarchy at least on the stuff that I've done so you did get it was very different but you got another of family vibe and that's part of what I've always loved about the craft and I'm curious so there was in your recent film you should have left it's so intimate and so contained were you guys able to create more of that vibe in that kind of environment yeah I don't need to say that you can never have that and I think that you certainly it depends on the it depends on the film and you can you and and if you have for instance I think a lot of times it comes down from the top so just to give you an example you know working with Meryl Streep of course you know I would look at Meryl Streep and think to myself okay this is the this this person has the career that I would most likely to like to aspire to and I think she's just incredible and here we are and I'm gonna actually do you know a movie with her and I've got a pretty big part and so we go to the table read and you're thinking oh boy what's this gonna be like and she knows that you know she knows that everyone is kind of feeling that you know and she just disarms it like right away I'm not really sure what she did but she just made us all feel like you know okay we're rolling up our sleeves and we're getting to work and you know john c reilly was an experienced actor david petheram is an experienced actor you know she there was no it was like we were there to to play the play and and not to just kind of fight for our own moments so I think that you know I try to create that if I can if I happen to be number one on the call sheet that's the vibe that I want to create so in a case of something like you should have left yeah definitely it was really me and and Amanda and Dave I mean the the little girl certainly you know she's a little girl so it's not really exactly the same kind of thing but but yeah we felt like we were putting our heads together to you know create this thing together and that's so I I do and I know you mean about independent films there is a real sense of you know we got through this and we we had these hours and we have a sense of family it is possible to create I I worried you know about at least you know for the time being when we do come back to work it's going to be a very very different different kind of vibe on a set you know I mean from what does it the need to keep distance yeah the distance and probably the crew will be in some version of PPE the actors and the only person people that are not going to be you know where I masks and then actors probably have masks on for the greater part part of the day and probably wear them during rehearsal and then you know so it's it's there's going to be a lot of isolation and it's gonna be difficult we can't we movie people we are thrown together sometimes with strangers were put into very intimate situations I can't tell you how many times I've you know met somebody and they say yeah you know this is this is you know Susie okay you know hop in bed or or okay this is the this is Edward you know he's your dad okay you haven't seen him for 20 years be just like meet him in fact that you know meets like the crazy kind of things not to mention the hours not to mention the the weather not to mention the difficult shooting situations that that would go through we have there it's a very intimate way of making a living emotionally and and physically so creating that in being distant is gonna be tough as the industry started talking about the specifics of what it will take to get back together yeah yeah there's what's the there's been a protocol that came out from our union and I think the general idea is that the you know the more testing the less risk so I think that's gonna be you know it's good I don't know that that much about how many tests are reveal but I'm guessing that there's that'll be a piece of it you know or re or how much testing is being done and then yeah it's essentially all crews is the crew gets very pared down there's a there's a zone that is you know a protected kind of zone and the actors are the only ones that are in it that are not you know protected and if they started talking timeline yet yeah you know people are wishful thinking fall okay and are you developing projects any differently given what's going on huh well I can tell you that the only thing that in terms of that is a Karen I think we we made a I wrote a song in during lockdown and you know corded it and it's at home you know got a nice mic here and you know a computer and and sent sent some files around and friend of mine produced it and then I wanted to shoot a video for it so I got out there with the iPhone and I have a GoPro and we're shooting some stuff just myself you know I haven't set up the shot and walk into it and you know do the whole thing and I was like yeah I said I said it to an editor to really move you some moving stuff so it's like honey you busy so and she's directing quite a bit actually so she came out and started shooting some stuff for me for this for this video and it's it's kind of amazing how great it looks and truly really come together and now we're really talking about just making something that we just kind of create that's outside of a music video you know some some kind of piece of content and how we do that I don't know but this is what I talk about in terms of you know this desire to stay busy so it's been fun to sort of knock those ideas around and I think to collaborate in that kind of way we don't really work that much together Karen hi but as many times as we've been together she's directing me a couple of times directed city on a hill my Showtime show I've directed her a few times we've produced some stuff together but it's yeah as long as we've been together haven't really that many projects so so we're we're now kind of open to that and who knows maybe that'll happen while work well lockdown yeah I was gonna say from a development perspective taking care of the other lead actress definitely being somebody that you don't have to worry about be a good time to develop something with her when did you start developing projects that seems to me like as an actor just such a smart move I did I've done it for a really long time but I honestly I I wish I even worked harder at it it's it's a but back in the in the 80s if you had a hit movie they just gave you a development deal studios just did it they had office space they could be an office they paid the salary of your development person and an assistant and I was on the Sony lot I think and even though I was living in New York but I was still you know going out and we were working on things and I don't know it was I think I got to I was too I would I would get really into something for a moment and then and then I would go back to say oh you know I just want to act you know this is just too much because yeah because this development is really hard you know as you know you know it takes a long time that you have to do really and and to be a producer a good producer doesn't just have one thing you know a good producer has 20 things that they're that they're working on because they all are gonna take a long time they're gonna have a hard time getting them made you know I just wanted to be active boy I'm one level and you know but I would I talk to young actors and certainly I talk to my my my daughter about this she's an actor um I think it's a good thing to do I think that trying to generate your own material will not only make you'll get it made but it'll also give you a better sense of what it is that you want to do and the other thing is that you know back when I was starting out to get a camera and an editing Bay and a sound pack package you know that was that was a big deal like that was a big investment and it was all you know thirty five-millimeter and you know na grows and you feel all kinds of like you know I mean back I mean you now you know it's all right here you know don't make your movie you know learn how to edit so what what is up next what do you what do you have lined up I know that I tried desperately to find the when the next season of city on a hill is coming out sorry we're about three episodes and and when when we wanted to lock down and so I'm hoping that we can you know start to prep than August and September will say I mean I we have the scripts and and so far I haven't heard anything from Showtime saying anything other than they want to keep shooting it and and I really like doing it I like like I'm liking a lot I directed the first episode of this season so just that I want you know to be seen and beyond that I don't know you know I'm attached to a couple of things you know we'll see we'll see I you know but I know that I know that I I know I want to work and I also have you know one that if I could really you know I'm not keep hitting this theme of being grateful but one thing is is really I'm really happy about when I don't tend to look back or these are the only times when when I think about my career is it on the whole is what I'm doing interviews you know otherwise you know I'm waking up and you know making my coffee and then reading the paper and and trying to figure out my day you know put one foot in front of the other I don't I don't go hmm diner you know but when I do think about it what I think to myself is the thing that I always wanted is something there's the main thing that I have that I always wanted was that if somebody came to me with a role that if we did that it wouldn't just fit into one category and that's what I say you know I get stuff kind of all over the map in terms of the types of people that I'm asked to play from different parts of the country different you know walks of life different points of view so so I just hope that that continues because even if it's something that I don't end up doing you know you know you look at it and go wow I never have to play the plumber you know and I played an astronaut and I played a x-man but I haven't played a plumber you know I'm really I'm really thankful for that and when you are looking for the roles and you get something new how do you find that hook I know you've said that there are some times you can just hear the voice of the character but when it isn't sort of presenting itself that fast how do you dig in and find it yeah I mean that's exactly what it is kind of digging in and finding it I I mean how do I do it I think I just keep asking myself questions about about this guy and and I and and and I think about all kinds of things that they would like or wouldn't like or where they're from or you know maybe you go into some kind of backstory you think well even if it's not going to be in the script what if you know his father died when he was seven near or whatever it happens to be you know what if you know he was attacked by a dog you know whatever happened it's part of that driving towards specificity yeah yeah driving towards specificity will sometimes open up a door that you don't really know was there in terms of finding a hook yeah as a writer that's one thing when I'm writing a story and you've got a character and you're trying to figure out how to play a scene or whatever oftentimes I find it's it is a lack of specificity that makes it harder and you would think that in shutting doors you're making it more difficult but that actually makes it a lot easier in in your recent film you should have left one thing that I thought was really interesting and I spoiler alert for anybody who's watching truly spoiler alert you end up playing two characters that are in conversation with each other and the way that you differentiated them but in fact one thing I want to know they they felt like they you transition where at first I wasn't sure that that was you in both roles and then I was like oh [ __ ] it is him that was really interesting how do you when you're gonna play both roles how do you find a way to differentiate especially when all t'me the the sort of punchline is that it's the same person what we tried to dig into was that that other person was was a manifestation of his you know the fear and horror in his life so we were trying to like MIT then then then make something specific that would have terrified him as a young man and then we went then we started started putting the pieces together who that would we but did that person was very specific you know we stuff and you would never in terms of his backstory yeah it's interesting I from you hear actors talk about that like I'll write the bio of this character whatever it never makes it on screen or I've heard stories about Tarantino doing that where he'll just write write write stuff that he knows is never gonna make it onto the screen but it is interesting how it really does inform choices that you make one thing that I heard you say that I thought summed up acting really well and was a super powerful insight for somebody like me I wasn't spend time doing that is you were talking about I love dick and you were saying you can't show up and play sexy like you can show up and play mad or frustrated or whatever what what is that that translate translation into playable what makes something playable well it's it's it's active you know I'm hungry I want to eat I'm angry I'm gonna yell I'm sad I'm gonna cry you know it's it's active things like being sexy it's more of a quality and it's it's a quality that you know may not appeal to one person or to another people talk about it a lot about trying to make a character likeable and like I just I can't walk into a room like ibly you know I can I can walk into a room having you know you know cold or or hot or like I have to go to the bathroom or sadness you know but it's it's an out it's it's an outside quality that you're trying to reach for the post an inside active active inside thing yeah I was reading a book on directing and it's it's really funny I always tell people's and I'm sort of joking but I actually mean it it took me three years to figure out what a producer does um in film school I I legitimately didn't understand like even taking the classes I was like I don't I don't understand what this is and I mean once somebody explains it you know that ultimately it's the person that brings the pieces together and actually gets the film made like think of all the things that it takes to bring to herd cats get them together pointed in one direction get it across the finish line deal with finance ears all that stuff it's like okay cool it's like the very logistical job but the same was true for directing it's like I always thought of directing as well where you put the camera but I had no concept of how to talk to an actor or what it meant to make something playable and one of the was reading a book and it gave like this really simple advice I'd actually be really interested to hear if you think this is [ __ ] advice or if it's really useful and he said you know I realize I had to translate into things that are actionable so I would say things like play it like you're angry play it like your son just died play it like you know your wife just broke up with you and it's like then all of a sudden you get that that sort of bundle of emotions and you understand sort of the position that you're coming at it from and I thought wow that's really interesting even though in the scene it may have nothing to do with any of those things but you're handing them sort of a an uma veldt of experience or emotion that allows them to inform what they're doing super curious you're nodding so I'll take that as a it's at least mildly useful yeah a curious if there's a better way I think I look I think that every actor reaction in different ways and a lot of times being a good director sometimes there's those moments where you have to come up and you know whisper the the gem into the actors ear that makes him you know you know think about your dog or whatever it is you know but a lot of times I think it's about creating a good working space where the actor can go and and do their best work and encourage them to keep going further I also think it's it's good if possible to encourage an actor to prepare so that the time on the set is spent less trying to quote unquote get a performance from them and more about you know being able to frame their performance in a way that that that brings it to life through the lens makes sense well Kevin dude thank you so much for coming on man and thank you for the considerable gifts that you've given to the film industry you are definitely somebody that I hope to in front of the camera for a very very very long time hey you yeah dude it's the fact that you show up so prepared and take things so seriously is self-evident loved your performance and you should have left thought it was wonderful you guys made that thing look just extraordinary and knowing that it was contained I'm sure for partly for budgetary reasons you just never feel it as the audience so infront of the camera behind the cameraman please keep doing it it's absolutely phenomenal as somebody who loves him as much as I do I'm super grateful to have had you as a part of my my lexicon growing up so okay thank you good sir everybody make sure that you watch yeah - say it again we'll do it again we'll do it again sometime dude I would love that any time you've got something to promote dude come on I would love that yeah an extraordinary guys if you have it be sure to go check out you should have left in fact Kevin I saw it on Apple TV where is the best place that people can check this out I think it's the only video man I you know wherever you get your video on-demand it can be on your TV you can be going out TV you know there's a lot of places yeah no joke alright everybody check it out is fantastic Kevin thank you again so much for being here thanks guys I take everybody Peter what's up everybody there is no way to build an empowering mindset or get ahead in business without constantly learning and accessing new information and today I want to share one of my secret weapons in the battle to learn new things and get ahead and that is blink estar ever-changing routines there has never been a better time to learn something new but with thousands of options available finding the best way to learn can be challenging and that's why I recommend the app called bling cast bling cast is a unique and powerful app it works on your phone your tablet or your web browser and blink us give you the best key takeaways the need to know information from over 3,000 non-fiction bestsellers in over twenty seven categories blinka condenses them down into blinks which you can read or listen to in just 15 minutes and now blinka 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