Kenneth Muhammad Done 26 Years Prison For Murder On Life Sentence Explosive Interview!

Great. Great. And sister, this boss talk, so we talk real talk. >> That's real. That's exactly right. >> In the Quran, one of my favorite verses say, "Speak straight words, >> man." >> So I'm going speak straight words. And if if I offend not, >> the thing about it is this. >> They want to put us in a box. You got two parent home, you got a working family, two and a half children, a car in the garage, a dog, you going to have a good life. But when you black in America, that that don't matter. That don't matter. >> Yeah, we on Boss 101. Yeah, we going to talk. We going to have fun. We be on fire. We be lit. Lit. It's a unique hustle. >> Check it. Check it. Check it. This is Unique Hustle. It's your boy Eco and I'm here with the lovely amazing official Miss Jamaica. What's going on? >> None. You know, going y'all stop what you're doing right now. Go like, subscribe, follow us from all social media platforms. When I mean all, I mean all. I mean our Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, Snapchat. You name it, we're on it. Just Google us Boss Talk podcast 101. We'll pop up first in line. I guarantee you. But y'all see us on the streets and talk about, man, I love what y'all doing. Keep up the good work. How can we be a part of Boss Talk? This is how you can be a part of Boss Talk. Under each and every interview, including this one right here in the description section below, there's a link that says join our membership. Click that link, follow all the instructions, and that's how you get to see all the exclusive content y'all been asking us. Where's this interview? Where's that interview? You got to be a member to see it. Or go ahead and download our app at Boss Talk101 on any Apple or Google store. Thank you. And we love you, >> man. Listen, guys. I got a guy in here today. He don't need no introduction. I'm in Memphis, Tennessee. It's going down today, man. I got a guy here, man, that uh he going to give us his story, man. The people going to hear what's what's on his mind, man. Mr. Ka Muhammad is in the building. I use the clap, but I don't have no clap. I don't I started using the clapper, but it's a little cheesy when you hit things. They know that's fake. >> That's right. I can't be fake cuz I'm too real. >> That's right. >> Let's get to it. Killer, man. What's going on down here in Memphis, man? >> Oh, man. Memphis is is a beautiful city. You know, everything's well. It's a beautiful day. Uh the music festivals in town. I know you all had a wonderful time last night. >> Man, let's just be real. I got turned out. They turned me out over there. >> What? I got on the stage again, man. Once I hit these stages, man, I think I'm a rapper. >> Okay. >> So, I start doing all my stuff, man. And they don't want that. >> But you in Memphis, so once you got on stage, I got asked the question. Everybody want to know, did you do the gangster walk? >> I tried, man. But I ain't I ain't got it all the way down past. I jerked, too. Y'all jerked. Y'all jing. >> See, I thought I thought that was going to be a little too hard. First time. I kicked two feet up. And then after that, I said, man, I can't do that, man. My legs started and I caught like I caught a cramp. Stay one more week. YOU HAVE IT. STAY. >> STAY ONE MORE WEEK. YOU GOT to stay one more week. >> Man, thank you for coming on the show, man. God bless you, bro. >> Man, God bless you, >> man. Let's get to it, Mr. Jamaica. Let's show them how we do it. >> Yes. So, you're born and raised here? >> No, ma'am. I'm actually born and raised in Sagenol, Michigan. >> Get out of here. >> No. Sag. >> That's where my daughter was for a while. >> She She left my house and went to Sagen. That's where my mama was at. >> Sagas. >> I went up there. >> Oh, yeah. >> I had to go see my daughter. >> Oh, yeah. Where you live? >> She was Well, no, it wasn't Flint. It was >> No, she was in Sag. Just like you said. I don't know the street. I just pulled up on them. It was a uh we did a we did a photo shoot and everything up there cuz I I didn't have this at the time. It was before that. She this was in 201 maybe about 2012 2013 >> 2014 something like that. And I went up there and y'all you know and and and and Dr. Muhammed he he's from up there. >> He went to University of Michigan. Yeah. >> But ain't he from Chicago but he went over to me to to Michigan. >> Right. So y'all be y'all hanging out up there? >> We I passed across. We done some things together. Um I knew he was a U of M alum. So once he found out I was from Michigan, so we kind of you know >> Let me tell you something, man. That's that's crazy because you didn't fix the water in Flint. >> Huh? >> And and and I thought you to fix that. What else was it? What have Mount Pleasant is up there? Oh, yes it is. It is. Y'all got some stuff up there. I I drove through I me and my wife flew up there and then I drove to uh I drove to Chicago. >> So I rented a a Suburban at the airport. >> Yes. >> It smelled like it rigged weed >> marijuana smell. I don't know what >> it's a new cologne up there. >> And we I told them when I got in that truck, they ended up call I said, "Man, I can't get this smell out this truck." >> And I don't smoke a drink. So it's like, "What is going on?" Cuz see people don't understand if you don't smoke or drink you I mean you can smell it but if you engaging in that then it's like it's normal. It's real normal. They can't tell you know the children come home you be like hey what you I don't smell like smoking man. You got the whole house smelling like >> that's right. But that's just because it's so common place now. So common place. >> Wow man. Go ahead. >> So in Sagenol were you raised in the household with your mom and your dad together. >> Yes ma'am. And were they also Muslims or you got to be a Muslim as you got older and you chose to become >> I chose to become a Muslim later in life. My mother uh >> she's from the south and as a little girl >> What part of the south? >> She's from Arkansas, a little town called Bird Song. >> Okay. >> And their her mom um moved up. I think she was probably um eight or nine years old and they moved up because of the jobs in the factory. And so once they uh migrated north, then the rest of the family started coming up, you know, piece by piece. And so um >> we still had a part of the family that was here and joiner. They moved up to West Memphis and then Memphis. So we would come to Memphis as a child. I would come to Memphis at least once a year. On my dad's side, this family was from uh southern Florida, you know, Brooksville and real country. So you know, all our people come from the south. You can be up there and somebody say, "I'm from Chicago. I'm from Detroit." Sagena. Okay. Where your grandmother from? >> Exactly. >> Shout out Shout out Shout out to OG Pyu to Marv, man. Uh we know where his family from. We not going to say it until I get him over here, but uh uh yeah, you're exactly right. >> Yes, sir. >> And your dad, where was your dad from? >> My dad's from uh Union Springs, Alabama. >> Okay. So, he's also from the south. >> Absolutely. >> So, so they migrated. How did they end up being in Sagenol? >> Well, General Motors was doing a lot of hiring. >> General Motors. >> And so when one person comes up and get a job, then they they looks out for the rest of the family. Uh I as I got older, I started learning the story, you know, because they never talked about it. So they would all come up if you was from that town. Everybody would live in the same house whether was related or not because really we all related. That's right. And so as they got jobs in the plant then you know they was able to you know move out and uh different kind of housing and whatnot. So that's that's how it happened. That's how it happened. One person come up then they sent for somebody else. >> Wow. So you grew up seeing them working hard. >> Absolutely. >> And I had to work hard myself. >> How many siblings did you have? >> I only have one sibling. I have a sister. >> I have lots of you know what we would call first cousins. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. In our in our culture, we like brothers and sisters. So, you know, I have a large extended family, but in our household, just I was the oldest and I had the younger sister. >> Okay. So, you had a lot of responsibilities. >> Yes, ma'am. >> So, how did were you when you started working? >> Early. Early. >> Okay. When you say working, you are you talking about getting paid or you talking about working? Cuz I was all all I ever remember is working. Whether it was cutting grass, shoveling snow, raking leaves, painting houses, those were the things that you had to do. My dad worked in a plant. >> Okay? >> And so I see him coming home with soot all over himself. And he was like, "Hey, you know, cut the grass. Show me how, you know, he was using this push lawnmower." And then we, I mean, we got an electric. And so I was like glad. I mean, before snowblowers, it was just the shovel. That was my weight training, you know. It was just a shovel. So I saw that demonstration. Everybody in the family worked. The men worked >> and and and the women took care of what they took care of, you know, and you was expected to do certain things. When you got up in the morning, the regiment was don't come down here and touch nothing eat until you wash your face. That's right. >> Clean up your room, make your bed, get dressed. >> Military like Bill, >> it was automatic. And if those things didn't happen, uh, don't don't touch that. >> That's right. >> Make sure that happened. And so, by me being the oldest, then I had the responsibility of making sure my sister did, you know, certain things, you know, uh, dad going to work. Um, I got to make sure she get to school. You know, I had to cook breakfast even though it was just busting open the can of those those biscuits. Yes, sir. You know, with the little butter. >> I done got hungry now. I boy, that bit goof. You know what's going on. You smell it. Start. >> Oh, that morning start your day. Oh, don't let it be that hungry jack with the flakes. >> BOY, NO. I TOLD YOU IT AIN'T NOTHING. >> You thought you thought you was doing something there, but you thought you was doing something. So, >> that's how we came up. >> You see, I think that structure is missing in today's society that that work. You see a lot of these kids come up and they be wearing pajamas all day long. They're not getting their face don't even look like they've been washed and they start their day doing this. They jump in their car running around looking that way. And I'm like, where did we go wrong? >> I think what happened was this because we all say this when I get to being an adult, you know, we always think our parents were a little too strict. >> I'm not going to do that. I'm going to loosen up. You know, let them have some fun in these things. And so when you go to high schools, which I do sometimes, and you like, okay, >> it can't be any adults letting you walk around these pajama pants, house shoes on, you know, bonnets. You couldn't come into our school like that. I mean, right at the door, if you wasn't dressed right, you know, hey, go home. I know your mama didn't send you out like that. >> Exactly. I would see uh young sisters and sometime they may have on something might be a little too provocative. That's right. and they would say, "Hey, uh, you can't come in here like that, you know, and do it in a way where it wouldn't be demeaning, but they would say, hey, you more valuable than that. You don't want that kind of attention because, you know, you get the wrong attention." They didn't explain it. You know, you had to be clean. You know, I was a friend of mine. We been together since I can't remember not being with, but they had these little thing called hygiene tests. Okay. And they will make sure that, you know, your face was washed, you know, your teeth was brushed, and you got tested on that kind of stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you got rewarded for doing it. So we we we look forward to doing that. >> Yes, sir. >> But some kind of way because we thought that was too stringent. The debt discipline was too oppressive. We we fell back and then over generations you see what you see, right? >> You know it. They didn't just wake up >> not caring about how they look. You know, these things were allowed. That's real. >> And we learned that discipline, excuse me, discipline is an honor. You know, now >> there's a way to discipline and not be abusive. None of us condone abuse. That's right. >> But sometimes you got to, you know, have a standard and then bring a person up to that standard. You know, we make a saying now, meet them where they are. I understand what you mean your intent is, but okay, if they down here in the sloth trough, I I'mma go get them, but I'm not going to stay. I'm There has to be a standard. And what I've learned is once you give a person an expectation, more than likely they live up to it. >> You don't. You talking about pulling him up. >> Pull them up. Yeah. Pull up. >> We we we used to use that when I on lockdown, man. Pull up, man. You know, cuz it was a safety program. I never went to it, but I knew they're just what they were saying like they trying to pull you up, man. You got to pull up on that, man. You know, you don't need to be doing that. And so that's I like that. You know, you got to pull them up. You don't meet them where they at. You pull them up. pull them up. That's hard, man. >> So, growing up, were you raised in the church? >> No. My mother, I don't know what happened. She came kind of disillusioned, I'll say, but she became a Jehovah's Witness. >> Okay. >> And she was, I mean, she was all in. She became what they call like a pioneer. She would go out and spend so many hours out in field service knocking on doors, >> passing out the watchtowwer in the wake magazine, the books. >> And of course, I got to go with them to make sure everything good. And I'm like, please don't let let's don't let this be our neighborhood. >> Boy, don't let no one of my friends see me. One of my friends see me. >> Oh man. You know, but the thing was and and know God has a way of uh molding and shaping you. That's right. And you don't even know. So I would go out and people would she'll knock on doors and people would be rude or whatn not but she would always say you know well thank you have a nice day God bless you. She never returned life for like she was very dedicated um when you're Jehovah's Witness there's a lot of study and they have a lot of books I love to read cuz being on punishment I couldn't go outside so I I got to read a book. That's right. So I would read and and I understood it but only thing I didn't understand why why everybody don't look like me. Everybody white but the the understanding was different than the traditional church and it made more sense but I didn't the eurosentric aspect of it I really wasn't feeling but you do what you told at a certain age. She say hey when you get to be 16 then you don't have to go. So I just really on the countdown and then at 16 I stopped going. But that's that's how I was raised up. >> And your dad was he didn't partake in it? >> Uh he was vehemently against it at first. >> Even though I was young I could kind of feel the the tension but my dad was a very committed man. >> And so the marriage was the marriage. That was the point that they disagreed on for years. And then you look up. My dad's a Jehovah Witness now. >> Oh, he goes to all the meetings, goes to all the assemblies. He goes out. And >> what was the turning point for him? >> Hey, my mother warmed down. You know, >> my mother just warmed down. She just, you know, she didn't force it on. She just kept, you know, you know, you you see something for so long. You be like, well, you know, >> hey, you know, it's it's not a bad thing. It's working. You want peace in your house or whatnot. And he's I mean he's all into it now. I I see him. I get pictures when I talk to him. I be like, "Okay." Yeah. >> How old were you when you converted to being a Muslim? >> I was what? Probably about 34, 35. >> How older? >> Yes, ma'am. >> So, okay. So, before you get into that part cuz Okay. How old? So, you were in Sagenol to how old? >> I graduated high school in 1983. I I was 17 when I graduated. Uh, a year later I went to school in the south. That's how I got to Tennessee. My mother's brother, my uncle, lives here. He went to the University of Tennessee in Knoxville and he was a track star. I mean, he was he was a track star. >> And your mom stayed in um Michigan. Michigan wife. Yes. And so he moved here and you stayed with him >> and I came Yes. And moved in with him. >> Okay. And then so you out of away from mom and dad was your uncle any different strict wise cuz you were grown. So you know for men when you get grown they give you a little leeway like go figure life out. I'm not going to be on you this this this this. How did that lead you during that time growing up where now you had to make your own decisions. You had to be your own man. >> Sis that's a great question and I think what we make the mistake because a number don't make you grown. M >> so I'm 18 19 and I really was real sheltered. >> Exactly. >> So being on my own I made a lot of you know mistakes. My uncle was like my idol and so I didn't want to disappoint him but sometime he had to sit me down and talk to me like uncles talk to nephews and he gave me the leeway to do things that I didn't have at home. And so I it was trial and error trial and error. And so uh I get it right then I might get it wrong. you know, he say what he say and then boom, I had to I had to keep going on. So, it was an adjustment period for me. When I got to school, I was a good student, but when I got to school, I didn't have nobody told me about going to class. I was there to play basketball. I was like, "Okay." >> Yeah. Cuz you have the height, >> you know? I play ball. So, we practiced at 3:30. >> Were you any good? I >> was all right. You know, >> I I heard the tail end of it. Let me get on in here, man. I I size you up when you got here. You know what I'm saying? I'm short, but I was a point guard. I'm going to tell you right now, if I catch you out there and I'll catch you on that, man. Listen, man. Don't get >> I'm not going to come inside. Don't even trip. I know I ain't as tall as you and I know what you I know what you're trying to do, man. >> Okay. But I was winging. >> So, you were fast and everything. My jumper made everything go all right, >> man. That was my special. I jump shot. So, I played on outside. So you said you had a lot of trials and you went up and down, but tell me about a pivotal pivotal time in those years where you know made you into the man that you are today. Something that could have went totally left but it didn't. >> It went left. That that moment it went left. >> Tell me about that time. >> Uh >> and how old were you? >> Uh I think I just turned 27. Okay. >> It was in February 1993. You'll never forget that, you know, I was um charged with uh murder right here in the city of Memphis. Uh I was arrested, charged, went to trial, uh found guilty, and sentenced to life plus 15 years in the state penitentiary. >> What happened? What cuz you can talk about the case, right? >> I can I I I'll talk about the case. >> Okay. But what what happened that that led you to that situation? Like cuz sometimes, you know, when you're going through it, you you play that back in your mind so many times trying to figure out how did I end up here? All the instances that I could have changed but didn't change or didn't do something different that led me here. Tell me about those times so I can totally understand. >> Let me and let me just say this. Let me interject and say, you know how you start the interview off and you be like, "Was your mom and dad in the house and all that?" >> Why you have to say it like that? >> That's how you say it. And it be like, "Yeah, they was there." But it's something about you face these. See, you got this on you. >> Mhm. >> You understand that? That changes everything in where I'm from and where we at. >> Absolutely. >> You understand what I'm saying? That's the start. I don't know your story, but I know what I know your story because something happens when you have to go out and face life. That's why I'm tough on my son or tell him about these things when we have these intimate conversations because I don't know what your life going to be but I know it's going to be something else cuz this on you and I just say that on them man stay on >> you hear what I just am I right >> you right stay on them >> but that's the reason why I ask these questions because yes you have a lot of people come from broke bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro bro broken homes and a lot of people will be under the illusion to feel like those are the people who normally end up getting in trouble and going to prison and stuff like that. So for the main fact that you had that mother and father, you had that structure, you had, you know, certain things that no a lot of people didn't have, but you still ended up facing this charge and making certain decisions like as a parent, where did we go wrong? How did that happen? What could we have done different to get you to go the right path, so to say? >> Great. Great. And sister, this boss talk, so we talk real talk. >> That's real. That's exactly right. In the Quran, one of my favorite verses, it says, "Speak straight words, >> man." >> So, I'm going speak straight words. And if if I offend not, >> the thing about it is this. They want to put us in a box. You got two parent home, you got a working family, two and a half children, a car in the garage, a dog, you going to have a good life. But when you black in America, that it that don't matter. That don't matter. I had both parents in the home, but the home wasn't um I want to say the typical home. There were problems in the home. Uh I would never um begrudge, you know, my parents cuz they did the best they could with what they had to work with, but they were dealing with generational issues. You know, sometimes uh the rob was a little too much. You know, today the things that I went through would be labeled as abuse. >> That's right. That's right. That's right. I feel you all abuse and so you couldn't do that. So having having that kind of structure at a certain point, I left home when I was 16, you know, cuz it got to the point where, hey, I can't deal with this. I'm going to school. I'm getting good grades. I aspire to go to college. When you're Jehovah's Witness, they was against that kind of thing. So I wanted I wanted I had dreams and I didn't feel like my dreams were being supported. >> You know, I'm doing everything, you know, I supposed to. an honor society, you know, can you imagine being honored for getting good grades and your parents don't come >> and then you do that a couple times and it get to be talked so you purposely don't excel to the degree that you can because you don't want that. >> Can you imagine not having the type of wardrobe that everybody else have? Can you imagine that having money when you go out your basketball team, you know, your stuff get some, you know, we go to McDonald's or whatnot. You know, back then sometime the school paid for, sometime they didn't. So you you know, you normally you have a couple dollars somebody would give you, but you sitting in the on the van cuz you don't have no money. >> I'm I me and your story a lot alike. You see, so them the things you internalize it. You put on the face, you know how to act, but when you show up at school, you know, you might be late because I stay across town, I'm the bus didn't come, >> but you can't get nobody to take you to school. You know, there's a car in the driveway, >> you know. So, you got to you you carrying all of that. >> That's mental mental abuse. >> You don't know that it's going to affect you or when it's going to affect. >> That's right. >> So, what I I said that to say this. So as as I began to get more freedom, you know, you want to make all the great choices, you know, especially when it came to interacting with other people, you know, uh you get a sense of entitlement. Hey, I supposed to have this. I supposed to do that. And you do that in college and sometime they let you get away with a lot of things. You don't have to be nice. You can talk to uh >> uh sisters any kind of way you want to and it going to matter cuz they they liking you. But once you get out the when you're in the military before they send you home, they kind of deprogram you. Don't nobody deprogram no brother from that. That's right. >> And you and you become narcissistic. You thinking everything around you. And then one day you wake up and they don't. And people start holding you accountable for things and you run away from accountability. You don't want responsibility. >> Come on now. >> And then when it hit you and all of a sudden you're like, man, how did I get here? >> Come on. I'm sitting on lower level 2011 popular. >> Come on now. >> On the door slamming. I got urine and feces on the floor. You know, I'm I'm I'm in a suit then. >> I'm sitting down there like, man, what is going on? How do I get in here? Cuz I thought I could do whatever I wanted to. And then you get into a situation, it get heated and you don't understand how to bring it down. That's right. And all of that pent up rage you've been having since you 6 7 8 it comes >> comes out >> and you like how why did I respond that way is because you never dealt with the first >> trauma. That's right. >> And see now we talk about those things but we weren't talking about those things in >> and you didn't deal with it because we didn't know how to communicate our feelings. That's really cuz the whole time in the beginning part where you were talking about with your parents and you know they you having certain things built up mentally is because you weren't able to come to them and some parents would say well child stay in this child's place so you don't talk about certain things with your child and that was a bad thing back then because they feel like no whatever we say that's what it is but not know how you internalize everything and hold it in and it it it affects you as you get older. So now this generation is starting to talk to their kids. But some things, yes, you talk about abuse when people call it abuse now, the things that we went through then, but sometimes you we look at these new kids and be like, you too soft. You you you taking a little bit too far, you know, with abuse. That's not abuse. Because if we didn't go through this part of it, we wouldn't be as strong as we are today. You understand what I mean? I'm not talking >> that's a great point. And so I mean to cut you off, but >> again I I believe in this divine path for all of us >> and my the man that raised me was my stepdad and he was I mean good man, but he didn't handle certain situations. When I got out of prison, we sat down and we talked and he apologized and and he was like, "Hey," because he say, "I didn't have to handle you like that. I was handled like that. That's all I knew." >> Listen, >> but I'm going say this, >> I didn't know I was as strong as I was. Cuz when I got that life sentence and I had to go behind them walls, you got to deal with that. And it's either sink or swim. You going to be a sheep or you going to be a wolf, you know? And you got to find a balance. You don't want to be too hard, but you can't, you know, you you don't want to get prayed upon. And so, I had a strength that I didn't even know I had that whenever I had to rely on it, I could draw cuz he I had to be strong coming up. I was able to think. >> I was able to rationalize. I But I still had that compassion and love where hey, we don't have to go this way. There's a better way. And so all of those things was put in me. Sometime they was put in good, sometime they was put in not so good, but but they got deposited is what I'm saying. So I don't want it to uh make it seem like uh I'm throwing off on on any of that. I'm glad I I thank God every day for my parents because without them one, I wouldn't be here and without the way I came up, I wouldn't have survived what I had to go through. >> That's heavy, man. Listen, man. And I'm uh and and uh it's just dope to hear your story, man. Man, listen. Kendall Muhammad is in the building. He not playing no games. It's a conversation that need to be had. >> And hold on. I'm going to keep going. You know, I just want to say the thing about your dad. I went through the same thing. So, our story parallels a lot. Um I tell it all the time about how he never nobody came to the school. Nobody my functions. I I got my first hug from my daddy uh uh when I graduated. That's the first hug I ever got from him. And I never was told I love you. Nothing like that. So, it was hard. I had I worked with him since I was young. We had a It was a OG pup wood. I'm I'm I'm I'm coming out the closet. It we haul wood. It was a very hard job. And but at the end of the day, I knew structure. He didn't he treated me like one of them. like it was no connecting like father and son like that. It was I'm showing you what I was taught and I don't know nothing else too. So at the end when I did find out who I really was when I understood I had a second chance in life I forgave him brother and I started telling him I love cuz I know if I change then he got to change >> you understand what I'm saying. So I start saying it more. I'm mess I'm I'm really playing the game with him because I know I know how now I got to break generational curses. >> Got to. >> So that's how I was able to before he passed, you know, get my breakthrough with him because I know his dad went through something. I know his daddy's dad went through something. I met uh Grandpa Nook. He was born in the 1900s. No, 1800s. Late 1800s. >> Yeah. >> You see what I'm saying? So I You start You start seeing it and you start forgiving. I started feeling bad for him because of my grandpa's son get killed on back of a truck. He driving one of his third son. He had 14 kids, nine boys, five girls. You see what I'm saying? And one of them get killed. And at the end of the day, I asked Marco the other day. I said, "Man, shot man, I did you ever meet?" He's like, "I never met him." He the youngest son out of 14 kids. And so it's like that kind of stuff right there make you feel sorry for the for your dad, sorry for what they've been through. And that's how I was able to pass through it. But this ain't my story, this yours. But I just it's similar. It's the stuff going to school and not having this or having that, the support system wasn't there. And being ashamed because you didn't have the finances. I did all that even though cuz daddy was getting drunk on the weekend. Mom and him were fighting like hell. When my my my I tell them story all the time. My mama tried to blow my daddy head off with a 12 gauge shotgun. I was four years old. I still have the house now that they was in because I keep it and I look at that wall all the time. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? I said I was young and mama tried to blow his head off. It didn't happen. And she hid right above it just a little bit. She would have knocked him out. I never got to really know who he was. >> Absolutely. But I remember that day cuz she dropped a gun and ran. >> Let's get back to it, man. >> So when you went to prison, you said you served a life sentence, but how how much time did you stay in prison for? >> A little under 26 years. I went in in February 1993 and I was released July 17th, uh, 2018. >> Wow. And how old were you when you went in? >> Um, 26. >> 26, you said. >> But I want to go back. I want to go back cuz I don't want to jump in story. I want to hear about you going to trial. I want to hear about all of that different stuff where cuz I I went, you know what I'm saying? I I I didn't go I didn't get the life sentence, but I have faced the life sentence. >> And did you have children before you went in? >> I had a girlfriend and she was pregnant. And the thing was >> we wasn't steady. You know how the lifestyle was. >> Yeah. Come on, man. And so when I got arrested, I was, you know, I'm thinking I'm focused on that. And then, you know, one of my friends say, "Hey man, I saw your girl, man." You know, I said, "Man, she did tell me she thought she was pregnant." And I hadn't even called or nothing. You like, "Wow." And so >> she had the baby. >> Um, my birthday is August 10th, his August 17th. So she brought him down >> and uh I called. She's like, "Well, I ain't know you know how you was feeling." I said, "Hey, bring him down." Cuz I could hear a baby crying in the background. So, you know, you got that two-way glass. >> That's right. >> And so that's the first time I saw my son. And then so I called mom. They come straight to Memphis cuz mom going to know cuz I was like, "Well, >> you're not sure if this is yours." >> I mean, you know. >> Yeah. >> Mom like, "Oh, no, no, no. Just like you when you was born. I got the pictures with them." Hey, scoot the baby up and go on up to Michigan, you know, to be busy, meet the whole family, you know. That's that was that was great. >> That's good. >> You know, and right and again, it was a blessing. Um, the first time I touched them, I was the jury was deliberating, you know, they was in the courtroom. First time I touched them, first time I had time to spend some time with them was, you know, in the prison yard, you know, that little section. >> But it's funny. Well, it's ironic. I won't say funny. This past year, I celebrated my 60th birthday. >> Come on, man. >> Yes, sir. >> 60 years old. >> Yes, sir. >> Boy, I want to get there. You know what I'm talking about. >> You look good, too, man. >> And and you know, I had reconnected with my son a little bit, but I didn't want to push up on him too hard. I was like, you know, when you ready? And we talked. He stays in Texas. I went down to see him and was cordial. >> Yeah. >> And then, but my wife, she unbeknownst to me, she talking to him regular. >> Wow. She got him to come to my >> 60th >> and he spoke and he remembered all of those little visits and county and of course man I couldn't control >> I know your emotion and but the thing was I would always say hey when I have be a father I'm going to make sure >> I'mma do certain things and he won't have that >> come on man >> and I put him in the same situation >> and come on man >> he was there with his fiance who's now his wife now and they've had first child. I said, "Hey, man. Hey, you turned out perfect. God had his hand on you." I said, "Now we going to move forward, but this my grandbaby. This your child, man. This going to be right. We going we going to break all of that. You know, you know, he going to be the next dawn of the family." >> I love it, man. >> And and those are the things that you sit back and you can reflect on and be like, "Wow." I You and Twisted Black, I interviewed him. He did 17 years in in uh federal prison and he his his he him and his son it disconnected them somewhat >> and I brought him on the show and him and his son but he got a grandson now and I met his grandson too I was like man that's what it's all about when you can reconnect that's like a second chance >> second chance brother >> man we love second chance man but boy that first one boy we boy it could go bad man but I want to go back to just you after the situation happened, as much as you can talk about it, you know, cuz it's up to you cuz I know that's a touchy situation, but at any rate, man, just like how was it like >> once once you bumped your head and can you talk about what caused you to go over the edge? >> Yes. >> Okay. Because at the end of the day, the way we live our lives, you know, is a testimony. And if it can save or help one person, then who am I to withhold that? >> That's right. I'm a open book. I've been on the 6:00 news. I've been on the inside fold of the newspaper. You know, cuz that's how they do. They glorify crimes that they do. >> That's right. >> You know, they commit them. >> Come on, man. >> But when we make a mistake, it's it's from See, I told you. You know, it ain't nothing. >> That's right. You do. you gonna always we try to reduce you to to what they consider our lowest comedy and it's up to us to uplift ourselves. But I say that um I got into an argument with someone that I knew, >> man. >> And and it escalated and at the end I killed him. >> Wow. >> I'm saying it like that. I'm not excusing that. I'm taking full accountability. I went over the edge. I sat there and like why did I respond like that? It was sort of like that wasn't even the person I was dealing with. I was dealing with it was I was it was rage. >> Yeah. >> All of those other things I didn't understand >> that kept bottled up just exploded all at one time. >> And so when you do that and then you sit there and you realize the first thing was the extreme sense of loss cuz this is somebody I know. Most of our crimes we commit against people we know. >> The second thing is is grief cuz you know hey man you gone. You know then there's remorse that you're not able to deal with because the in the criminal justice system they say it's adversarial for a reason. So you want to see them in court you know you see their parents and their family you want to say hey I'm sorry no don't talk to them it's going to make it worse. You know you want to write a letter. No, no communication. You're gonna be uh charged with trying to intimidate a witness, >> right? >> You know, these are the things you said. So, you don't go to trial right away. It's years before. And so, now they're sitting there, no communication with you or your family. And so, they thinking that, uh, man, you didn't care nothing about >> they like you're a cold blooded dog. You this, that, and other. Not knowing that, you know, you can't even sleep at night. you know, cuz you you re you replaying this and you say, "Man, if I have did this or if I just stayed at home and that came out or I not answer that phone call, you you got all of these scenarios. You're working. Don't nobody understand those things." And so this is why the the push now for restorative justice is a great thing and why, you know, the right is against it. So I went through all of those emotions. >> Did you was it over a girl? Was it over money? Was it just an argument of rage? Y'all just out hanging out. >> I just argument. I won't get into the details. So, but again, I was wrong. >> You was wrong from the You was wrong. >> I was wrong. >> So, you was more like uh was it bully bully type tactic or did you if y'all was friends? It was relationship. >> Okay. Gotcha. Relationship. >> But you know the funny thing when I'm listening to you say that all I can think about this happens so frequently in the streets among friends >> among blacks for sure. Right. I've heard this case before in not exact situation, but where friends got into an argument and it got heated and I didn't mean to do that. I took all my rage out on him. This is not the first time I've heard that. So, I know it happens a lot. >> Let me go a little further. Even when we did J MK and him and his friend him J MK was with his best friend and they was shooting at somebody else and the bullet ricochet from his gun and killed his best friend >> and the family what you talked about earlier the disconnect he couldn't talk to the family that knew him and grew up and they wouldn't even >> and they were mad and they mad to this day I don't know if they ever figured it out >> because they was together he ran and left his friend because they took off their and when he went to school they arrested he wasn't but And they charged him as an adult. >> As an adult. Yes. >> But but he ends up getting out because they didn't get him the way they supposed to. They some stuff was wrong cuz that's a tricky case. >> It is. It is. You know, depending, you know, nor know if you're white, it's negligent homicide. If you're black, you know, you got a murder case. >> That's real. So that was one of the cases that where you see somebody have to go through a murder. Uh you Okay. You see somebody going through that and it's like when we had the conversation he and he bumped his head cuz he was raised from 15 all the way in prison till he was like 20 27 28 and he come home and he bumped his head a little bit. He don't know life >> right >> he never was on the outside and inside trying to do time and it's tough. >> Yeah. You learning on the fly. You're trying to grow. >> You learning on the fly, you know. And uh here in Tennessee, 2011 popular >> is probably one of the wor it's worse than most prisons. >> Wow. >> You know, and you you got to you got to learn fast. >> And so Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me let me get this [ __ ] to prop this. My dog. He just pulled up, man. OG Pyru just pulled up in the game. Ayatollah Morv. He here, guys. We about to go down through there now. And don't be offended at nothing he say. Anything he say, you know what I'm saying? Don't hold it. This is his opinion only. And uh we don't want to be judged by his opinion on Boss Talk 101, guys. And we can move on from >> You better take my opinion seriously. Everything you say can and will be hosed against you in the court of Royce Grimes. >> Shout out to Bumpton in the building, man. >> Brother Kenneth here. >> Hey, brother Kenneth is here because OG linked me with brother Ken. I like to keep it so real. This brother O OG always, that's why I brought him, man. He going to always do something. He might do this, but he going to do that. And that's what I like about it. When he do that, I can't get over it, man. We got to do that. >> So, man, just to have you on the show and for him to link me with you, I was excited coming down here that I was going to get to talk to you. Cuz one thing I always ask him, this something I as said, man, you know somebody that been been through something because I know it'll help somebody. I always ask, know, G be like, yeah, I know such and such. He always know somebody I can get s I was like man let's do that because that's what really matters bro cuz your story can help somebody when they done been through it. You know what I'm saying? Absolutely. >> That's all it man. Thank you OG. I'll give you flowers. >> We got to we got to give it to uh to brother Bo Pete. The brothers is locked up inside. Brother Yeah. Uh brother Quinton Quinn Sanders and brother Ali. Uh they the ones really hooked me up with him. They are they they hey this the brother out here sister Jada X. Wow. >> Uh those are some of the people I pushed when we were down here for the Martin Luther King juvenile life and the the importance of you know on the juvenile justice system. These brothers they've been locked up since they were 17 and 18 and they they you know they have it where they have to do a mandatory 50 years man >> you know. So that's what they're working on from inside and coming out. And this brother been right there with them in them trenches and came out and uh doing an amazing job out here on re-entry and trying to bring brothers out prison and trying to keep younger brothers out of prison. >> Thank you my brother. Thank you. And and and and sometime you have to go in in order to see how to pull people out, right? You can't pull them out if you ain't never been a lot of people try to reach people they can't reach because they never been in their situations. And I always looked at that when I was going through my situation like why did I come through here for? What and and you start to learn this is why that's why boss talk like it is because I always get somebody that been through something because of something I've been through. >> But you know again and a lot of people tell me like uh man you got a story. >> Yeah. >> No, I don't think so. >> Okay. Because it's people just like us >> never snitch and never went to prison. >> Right. >> He got a testimony. >> You brother I was listening brother saying his his career our selfishness and the things we didn't realize how selfish we were. >> Come on now. >> But that entitlement I don't get no accolades for flunking the third grade. Do you? >> Come on now. >> Going to prison is like flunking. >> Yeah. Yeah. It ain't a place. You flunked out. It's not a place. It's not a place. You feel what I'm saying? So, I I was just telling the brothers last night when we were talking and we were talking about uh how I got to prison. And I was explaining to them how our brother, he was like, "Man, yeah, that's that scared Straight program." The uh the white guy that was with them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> He said he he's from up north and he said, "Man, yeah. I went to San Quinton, man. that scared straight and n and I said, "Well, it don't work for everybody, >> right?" >> Because I was in juvenile hall and they at that time in this in the 60s it was prison preveners and and they came into prison and I they came in juvenile hall and we're in TN juvenile about 11 12 years old and we started right there. We did this and we went to camp and I went to Hawaii. I'm in San Quinton. You couldn't make it in San Quinton. you'd be washing somebody draws or you'd be somebody wife. We were scared right then. Then I got to thinking I'm tough. And I went to camp. I went to Hawaii and I got to San Quinton. And when I got to San Quinton, I got a I said, "Man, y'all know Billy Jackson." He says, "Yeah." He said, "Billy just came back on a violation." I said, "Where he at?" So we got to the lower yard. I got a life sentence now, >> right? >> So I said, "Billy, you remember me?" He said, "No, youngster. Where I know you from?" I said, "Remember you came in juvenile hall and you said that the things that you went through and if we went through it, we'd be watching somebody draw. We'd be somebody else's wife. Who wife are you?" >> Oh, brother. I I CAME ALL THE WAY TO find out, >> right? >> Because sometimes people take that as a challenge. >> Absolutely. >> That's right. >> You you you don't have to have a PhD to go to prison. >> No, sir. >> You know what I'm saying? But I have some very few cuz I ain't got many friends left that grew up with we all they all dead or rich but if some brothers knew the girl that they was going to marry in the third grade. >> Mhm. >> You know what I'm saying? Uh one of my old he a little bit older than me. We used to laugh at laughing at Mickey Miles. Okay. >> And shout out to Mick. >> Mick's father. We used to laugh at him cuz he was 17. We were he like three four years older than us. and his father would drive him to the barber shop. We all walked to the barber shop. We we doing our thing. Uh Mr. M. Uh how many you got there, Mr. Reynolds? Oh, I got about five. Said Mick right here. I'll come back and pick him up. Mick, you going to walk home? AND I GOT AWAY from my daddy. But he was more scared of his daddy than he was us. >> That's right. >> And it kept he respect not scared in them days. It was scared because it beat the [ __ ] out you. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm, you know, old people always have long stories, but I'm just saying some of the things that we went through, like you said, I'm I'm like you. I'm entitled. I I lived in the same house all of my life. First time I ever spent the night away from home was in juvenile hall. I grew up on nightmare on Elm Street. >> I I never went to the refrigerator. Was no food there. I ain't never had no shoes I had to put stuff in. But I went through the same thing that the boys at the projects did. >> Come on. >> Because it it's it's systematic. >> Because no matter where we are, we still block. >> That's real. >> You you dig what I'm saying? So on this end of the spectrum, on my end of the spectrum, we all from Texas to Louisiana, from uh Michigan to Compton, we all in the same game. That's our Hey, listen man. That's OG Pyu to Lamar, man. Listen, this Boss talk 101. We down here in Memphis is going down and we got this treat going on for y'all, man. >> So, brother Kenneth, tell us about what you're doing out here with the with the with the youngsters and the re-entry. What you know, after you made your transition and came out here and became an upstanding black man, push it. >> Wait a minute. You a just jumped this subject like this. We had an interview going, bro. It >> It's still going. >> But you taking it another way. You steering the car over here? >> No. The car going straight. >> There's two steering wheels in this car. >> No, it ain't but one steering wheel in this car. >> Okay, I see the steering wheel on your side. >> No, I ain't can't drive. I ain't got a license. I want all the listeners to know when I walked in the door. It started with these two. It started and it's all love that sitting there. I mean, if you was in the room, you can feel the love. It's beautiful, man. I just I I didn't want to leave out the part of when he first got like I did you when he first got to prison. You know what I'm saying? cuz I always be interested in that being a brother that's that that you ain't never been but you heard these stories like you was just talking about and the scared straight thing was you scared straight or was it a thing where you had a reputation built up you know what I mean that first day in >> absolutely and I think u what I could do is marry the two and just transition so I go in >> uh and while you here at 2011 you really just fighting your case you know there's a procedural things you go through we all know that uh if If you got a murder case, they going to be seeking the death penalty. So that's what you got to deal with. But the thing was, I was on the fourth floor and that's where they put all of the violent charges. There was a brother that worked the unit, you know, he would come in a couple days a week. It wasn't his regular part. And he would always start off saying to get respect, you have to give respect. And he was a cleancut brother, you know. I was like, man, you know, all right. you know, he would always say, "Sir, brother, you know, he never demeaned or degraded us." And then he would start talking about someone named uh Minister Faracan. So, I was like, "Okay, I've heard of Farrakhan. I know I know white folks don't like him and a lot of people, but he pro black, you know, we good." I wasn't into him like that, but I was familiar with him. >> And so, he said, "Hey, brother, you know," >> he said, "Life ain't over for you." I said, "Well, man, they trying to take me out, so I don't know." He said, "Man, you ever read message to the black man?" >> Come on now. >> So, I said, "Well, no, but having, you know, people in the jail that I knew." And so, I got a book, Smoking In. You know, if you can smoke it in other country band, I know I can get a book. I got Message to the Black Man. >> Come on. >> And that's the first time I had read it. Like I said, I had went to college. I was playing ball. I had never read Message to the Black Man. I had read the autobiography of Malcolm X. I knew about the Honorable Elijah Muhammad and things of of that nature. So, I sat there literally, man. OG, I read probably >> 285 pages in one sitting. I couldn't put the book down. Wow. >> Finished it the next day, then went back and reread it. You know, they like, "Man, what man, you know, Kenny G ain't been out the sale yet?" I was like, "Man, I'm reading this book, bro. I can't put it down." >> That's right. And so a young brother uh he had just turned 18 when he caught his case. He had come back lost in travel had life. He was down. He come to my cell. I said, "Man, I don't even know what to say." I said, "I'm looking at the same thing." I said, "But here go this book." When I read it, man, it just made me feel better. I said, "I'm going to give it to you." And I gave him that book. And of course, so once I got found guilty, I probably stayed down another month before they shipped me off to the yard. M >> so I'm getting to the yard now what you saying you know how I'm going to do time was I scared straight you know the thing was I wasn't in the street like that but I had family members so when they heard I was in that he said look man the same rules apply he said man don't get nothing you can't pay for >> he said if you don't have no habits don't pick up none >> that's right >> and he said man keep it straight you know and he told me what that meant he said man we messing with you know those boys in there I said well man I don't have issues and so I had money to get whatever I needed. So I never was in debt. You know, I had a good name. If I needed some, I could get it on my name. If I say I'm going to get back to you Monday, you you don't have to look for me. It's that Monday. So those things I already had. I played basketball. So in in prison, you know, sports is real big, right? I mean, they got gambling tickets. So I was one of the better ball players on the yard. So, you know, that's how I gained notoriety doing that. >> Wow. But after about eight years, you know, I'm going to visit every weekend. I'm I'm doing that. Getting up in the morning, you know, I don't want nobody think I'm perpetrating. I just get up and uh smoke me a joint cuz I got to try to make it through that day. >> That's right. >> But then I heard this brother inviting me to to the NOI services. And so I went to the NOI service and I heard Mr. Farcon and he said something man that I was like I had never heard this. like he was talking to me. He said, "There's no human being that cannot be redeemed." >> And up until that point, I was jailing. I was just using different things for coping mechanism. Playing ball all day is a coping mechanism. Lifting weights, coping mechanism. Going to visit on the weekend. We try not to get a ticket to go to lockup so we can make it to Saturday and Sunday. Coping mechanism. But you can't do no life sentence like that. >> Cuz that girl that's coming to see you the first couple years, she ain't going to be coming in year 20. And you know what I'm That's right. >> You know those things you able to do, you ain't going to be able to play ball 25 years. And so you going to have to mentally evolve and go somewhere. When I heard Minister Farhan say that, I sat there. I said, "Man, are you serious? I got blood on my hands. I'm like, it's over for me." People in my own family talking about me in the past tense and not even realizing it. >> So I said, "Wow." Brother gave me a book. It was a pamphlet then called self-improvement basis for community development. >> And so I just started looking at it and it was based on three principles. Self-examination, selfanalysis, self-correction. And so I began to apply the things that I had learned and automatically I would get migraines every couple of months. My headaches was gone. The brother it was Ramadan G and he said, "Hey brother, you going you want to participate?" I had heard about it. I mean, the brothers will give me the food trays cuz I could buy them. I said, "Man, I'mma try it." And he said, "Only thing, you can't smoke or sell no dope." I said, "Well, for 30 days I could do that." >> And so I got to doing it and and we would go out in the morning and we would read the Quran and then the brothers in the nation, you know, they very disciplined. They was very together. >> And so, but here's the thing I noticed. >> The word start circulating. Hey man, you know, hey KD man, he down there with the Muslim. I think he about to be a Muslim. So they like, brother. I said, no man, I'm just down here trying to do something different, bro. >> But I started enjoying it. >> Yes, sir. >> And so after the the Ramadan period is over with, the brother asked me, say, brother, what do you think? I said, man, you think you can do this? He said, man, accept your own and be yourself. I said, man, I'm going to do that. And and I started applying it. And so it opened up my eyes and I realized everything I had went through in life. It was like a jigsaw. >> Come on now. >> I just needed the right thing to put it together. I had these things that was locked away from me. I didn't have a key. >> The teachings gave me the key. >> Yes, sir. >> And so then brother start putting life in me. I was just with the minister making sure he got to where he had to go to. He was he was I mean he was teaching hard. I had no aspirations to teach Islam or nothing. >> He say, "Bro, you see yourself up there." Up there doing what? >> You see yourself when you Hey, when you talk, you got Hey, brother. I'm not gonna be doing no talking. I didn't do any of those things at that time. >> That's right. >> But here's these brothers that I respected. They was they were serious brothers. You know, they were serious cuz the NOI is never really the largest group. >> But then nobody bother them cuz they meant what they said. My prayer, my sacrifice, my life and my death is all for Allah. >> They meant that, you know, and and we are never the aggressor, but you know, we want peace, but man, if you want something else, man, you get that, too. >> Wow. >> Go get it. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And so we started doing that. So now I could do things on the yard with impunity. I sold drugs. I walked around. you know, all of a sudden I become a Muslim. I'm in the hole. But then I'm in the whole pen investigation. I was like, I didn't do nothing. Yes, >> sir. >> And they can extend it 7 days, 7 days. So every time I went, I stayed 21 days. I come out, you know, you have starved or whatnot, but it gave me time to read, gave me time to study. >> And so I eventually they transferred me to an institution uh that was a slaughter house. So I'm there. I'm the only nation brother there. But there was a brother. He was a what we call a supporter of doctor. >> He just had he just had the crescent moon and stop drew on a piece of paper. >> I got there and we started jamming. I started man building. I man you know Allah blessed me with being able to speak all of a sudden. So the brothers started you know uniting behind the ministers teaching me >> and we just sharing what the minister saying. And so after about three years, Mohamds Ma in Nashville, uh, which was close to that institution, they be we got them to come in and establish formally a study group. Now, here's a prison that was a slaughter house. I mean, I mean, it was it was South Central, brother. Okay. >> I mean, I ain't never seen so many blue flags in my life. And, you know, the G's was heavy. Then the vice doors, you know. >> Yeah. M >> but on Friday, hey man, we going down to Juma. And you know, it was hard to get them kind of brothers in the same room, but the teachings showed us how to to unite and unify >> common interest >> and started establishing programs. People don't know this about prison, but it's a class system as well. That's right, sir. If you don't have a high school diploma or GED, you can only have basic jobs. >> Tennessee paid 17 cent an hour. I don't know what it was for Cali. 17 cent an hour. You could work a whole month and get $25. >> That's right. >> And had to buy your soap, had to buy your toothpaste, had to buy your deodorant, >> man. >> And then they could mark it up. I read the policy 100%. They could mark it up. So something that cost4 out here might cost you $2 in there >> and you got $25 to spend. >> So you know the teachers I'm saying you promoting criminality cuz that's right. You know that's right. >> Self-preservation. So, I started using those things, setting up programs, mentoring youth. We had a pastor torch program. We had a uh something we called a transition program. Say had a brother come in and he's he's a part of one of the street organization since he was 15, but he's 32 now >> and he's evolved. >> Wow. >> So, you know, >> we made it fashionable where he could transition and relationship. That's right. and not lose and not lose any rain, not lose any faith, not be discredited. And we set up all those things while we were inside. >> That's crazy because it seems like God was preparing you for what you were about to do outside. >> That's that's that's the point. That's what I've been to. That's why I said we going to transition. So, I'm doing all these things. This where I first met both people. They put him in a sale with me. and both people I I mean tragic story and and and it wasn't nothing premeditated about it but because he was a a young black youth and they attached him to a street organization they want to make him a poster child for everything that's wrong. >> That's right. >> And they did they did to him everything they could. >> Wow. >> Then you know they did in such a erroneous way they had a new trial. Now they put the codefendants and uh make it easier for them to get out if they give statements. I don't know if they did or not, but they're out. He's the only one that's still locked up. >> Wow. >> He didn't been to trial two times and they gave him the same excessive sentence. They changed the law and he's still holding the bar. Wow. >> And you want to talk about justice? What is just us? They get that. >> Yes, sir. >> So when I get out, I get out on a Tuesday. The MOS picked me up. My family was out of town. I I go straight to MOS, get all my paperwork in. That weekend, I'm on a radio show about my experience, man. >> And I just been rolling. So, uh, law prepared me for what I'm doing. That's right. I started volunteering my time going to the juvenile justice. The brothers in the Mars, couple of them were police officers. They said, "Hey, come out here and speak to the youth." And I came out and they were sitting there and it went well. know they kept inviting me out, kept inviting me out. >> Blessing. >> Then um >> people started hearing about it. I started going different places. I um started working for the Ver Institute of Justice in New York, man. >> You know, doing those kind of things. And then that led me to what I'm doing now uh which is uh restorative justice program with the Rafa Institute. And what we do is a pre-adjudication diversion program. So uh say a young person get in trouble instead of having that albatross around their neck they complete our program then all of those things are taken care of and then we step in and give them the soft skills and the hard skills depending on what they need. We do assessments stability plan and because most of the youth you'll see there's something they're lacking whether it's at home whether it's mentally now um economically because you can't uh detach economics from crime. You can't detach poverty from crime. You have to. And so, having done all of those things in prison, it was a natural trans uh position when I got out here. It It's not like it's even worked. Uh, bro, it's just like something I've been doing for, you know, since 2000. >> So, you was already you was you was pretty much already headed that way in confinement. >> Hey, look at that. That's hard to God always do it like that, though. You be thinking you doing something. He got a plan, man. Way bigger than what you even think as Grant. That's crazy. >> Go ahead, OG. >> It was just something that we were y'all were talking about earlier and we're talking about growing up. >> Yeah. >> And and like you say, see, he came in with Minister Faracan. All right. >> I came in with Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Yeah. >> I came in the nation in 1964. Okay. >> Right. And in the transition from the 50s to the 60s, white America had a thing for youth called encourageable. >> Okay? >> If you if you you wouldn't go to school, didn't obey your parents, juvenile system would take you until you were 18 >> in California. They did it in Mississippi, too. Okay? >> And it was called encourageable, right? So they would take you from your family because and they really did that to depressed families. You know your mother that she got 15 kids and no man in the house on welfare and you running away you stealing. You do a couple little stealing. So they bring you know I come to juvenile hall cuz I was bad white folks. And so I come to juvenile hall and be some brothers in there out of the projects and stuff was in there for encourageable. What the hell is you won't mind your mama? You know, so they grew up like that in in encouragement the this the state had them. So now in the 70s they changed incorable to tell you now if your mom and father do something to tell us we'll arrest them. >> Wow. So now from the 70s to the '9s to the dang near the 2000s, you were scared to death of your child because he'll tell on you. >> Yes. That's right. >> So now now that they bring the black child with the power, >> right? >> So now you got a 5-year-old girl. I'll call the police on you. Now I wish I would have said that to my daddy or my mama. >> The police or something. You better call when you finish this. all the under. So now we got the transition where >> they seen the tragedy of they little white children with their im with their privilege. So now they well this is how we can do black kids. >> COME TELL US. >> WE'RE your savior. You don't need your mom and your daddy. >> Come on. >> So now here it turns in the 2000s. They sick of [ __ ] So now it's your childhow >> and if you can't handle them now you can go in California >> the juvenile justice system is gone. They putting everybody every the the life sentence in the 300 years y'all was getting and we was laughing that because when I went to prison a life sentence was 7 years >> right >> life without a possibility was 14 years 9 months. So now that was indeterminate sentencing. Now when it came to determinate sentence this the trick it's man you was before with indeterminate sentence I didn't have to do nothing and stayed out of a way for a year I get four months off my time >> just being there I only do eight months on the year >> right >> with determinate sentencing they called it day for day you get a day they give you a day but they could take 90 days from you >> so you end up Come on. >> Come on now. >> So now they didn't change the system from seven to life >> to 25 to life. >> Right >> now 25 years in California, you got to do 20 years 8 months to the board. Then you got to do the seven years for life. So at the bottom, if you to do everything good and don't get in no trouble, you got to do 35 years. >> You know what I'm saying? So I'm just showing how the system sublimitably takes our children from us like the pipe piper. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> Yes sir. Yes sir. >> And and it's we don't have the accumment to understand how to take them back. You know like it's the hardest thing you I love Minister Faracan but Jesus is still white. >> Yes. and and we don't get the understanding that there the devil is real. He's >> real >> and we've been here with him and right the honorable Elijah Muhammad said what do we like about the devil cuz he gives you nothing >> and and it's just like a woman the man that treat her the worst she love him the most. >> Wow. You know, so in that in in growing up, we're in a same kind of system, but now it's so critical with our children. They're taking our babies and ain't nothing we can do about it. It's something we can do about it, but we don't want to do for ourselves and get our justice. >> You know, I I one of me and my buddy was talking last week and we were talking how we grew up. If we were together and the police would pull him over, he had to we we we would be right there. >> That's right. >> Yes, sir. >> Man, y'all going. No, we ain't going nowhere until he >> That's right. That's right. That's right. >> Uh today we go somewhere as homies and the police stop me. Everybody, oh, they got him. They laughing at it. Think about it. I I go back to even Park. They got footage of him. He would stop. If you see the police stopping somebody, he would stop. He would get involved. He didn't mind even getting and he was he was so-called entertainer. A lot of people see like oh he he wasn't gangster. He wasn't this. But he was a man that would step out >> and say something. But you know I'm going tell you and this beautiful point uh G beautiful points because it's social engineering is what you're talking about. >> That's right. Exactly what you're talking about. >> Exactly what you're talking about. We've been socially engineered not to care. I remember coming up like that and you stop one. Well, you got a problem one. That's right. That's right. >> But now it's totally different. >> It's totally different. >> And and and and we was brainwashed and indoctrinated and thinking that our open enemy is our savior. >> And and that has an effect on how you move. You see, we hear it all the time. Well, you better go to prison and all of a sudden you Muslim. Well, because you in an environment where they not openly recruiting you to the church, >> you know, they they feel like they didn't got you. You see, and like you say, um, I love how you put it. I failed a test when you come to prison, you know, so you need a retest or a makeup test. And so when you get it right and you come out, people like, are you, man, you out, you in one piece, you in your right mind? They doing all these tests cuz just cuz you out physically, you still can be mentally captive. Yes, sir. And what I realized after doing all those years, I left the penitentiary, but I got released into a different type of prison because people out here are in prison mentally. That's right. Intellectually. >> Let me just say this, man. Like, like for y'all, you know, like when I went I actually I became more I was not a guy who followed God at all. But when I read the Bible, I started reading and I I start being a Christian because I read that verse, if any man be in Christ, he's a new creature. Old things have passed away. Behold, all things become new. And I also started to research it and research the Quran and Hinduism, Buddhism. I was trying to figure it out cuz I didn't trust nothing. >> But then when I was reading, I started to see the lies that basically about Jesus is white and all that. I could read that in the Bible and see that that wasn't what it said. So that made me even more try to figure it out like what why would they say this? This say them that worship God must worship in spirit and in truth. So it never did say that. So I'm looking at it and I'm starting to look at tradition and I started to fight away from tradition and away from I always would tell brothers I was teaching I would say man I done tied my camel to a day tree and walked on hot desert sand. I I'm not Americanized with the systematic way and that's why I would be talking and God put a Muslim brother as my silly and he would pray every day and I would read every day and I end up going to Tylen services and everything else because I respected him for the way that he was disciplined. >> Yes, sir. And I sat right there and I was the only one the one that would talk about the scriptures with him and talk in a debatical way cuz everybody else, man, that's endless genealogies, man. You don't supposed to talk about that and you and I was not like that. I was conditioned to understand what the Jehovah Witnesses was talking about. I was trying to understand everybody's angle, >> right? >> And that's what made me understand I'm worshiping spiritually. I'm not going in like everybody else trying to figure out and and and and I would get kicked out when I came out of prison. I get kicked out of churches cuz I was going to ask questions at the end and say, "Why did y'all do this here when this don't say this in the word?" I was doing the same thing but in my own way defending the fact that this Bible is not even what you're telling people. And it got me pushed out of a lot of rooms. I'm telling you. So it's the it's it's the same type of deal where >> so even you know in scripture in in the Quran the Torah the Bible it does not say oh ye Christian it don't say oh ye Jew it says oh ye believer >> correctly >> yeah yeah >> that's all we got if you know uh uh Mr. Farrakhan said that if a gang member dies believing in the gang, Allah is so merciful. He'll take him in when he send the preacher to hell. >> Because the preacher was hypocritical. >> Correct. >> And if whatever you believe in your heart, that's why it's our job to tell you it's a god. >> Yeah. >> That's all that's all Jonah had to do. >> Just tell them. >> Just tell them. That's right. You see, and and he saved the Ninevites. >> That's right. >> The only ones at a time. >> The only ones at a time. Just give the words. And where did it come? And people miss what Jonah did. It wasn't Jonah. They say when the king heard the m out of the mouths of babes, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And white America took the Jonah story and made it the pipe piper story. Come on now. >> Even the gourd and all the stuff that came up when he went through his situation to give him a representation of what he had went through basically and this is you you know when you he caused the gourd to come over his head and he basically was in a depressive state mad because he didn't do what he wanted him to do to the nine ofites. It's a thing where all of this stuff is symbolic and it helped me to understand how to move through obstacles in life and I I try to relate everything to me. I used to tell brothers when I was locked up. I said, "Man, if you can't show it to me where you read it at or say, I don't even know what you're talking about. You got to show me." And I was that type of dude. And if I told you something, I was going to show you why I believed the way I believed. I never would tell you if I couldn't show you. That's why from Genesis Revelations, I would always be explaining it. And at the end of the day, I would always come into conflict with not just not just a Muslim, but the people who supposed to be my brother so-called, you know what I mean? But I always was asked questions like King Haram in the Bible, like uh King Solomon is supposed to be the richest and wisest man or whatever, but it wasn't couldn't have been about money because he had to borrow stuff to build a temple from King Hyram. >> Mhm. >> See what I mean? This stuff would I would challenge the situation. >> Yeah. We call that mathematics. >> Exactly. That's all it is. That's mathematics. And that's the thing, you know, the most said this, put a clean glass next to a dirty glass. If if a person all they have is a dirty glass of water to drink and they thirsty, they'll drink it. But if you put a clean one next to it, they'll make it the right choice. So in Islam, there's no compulsion. You know, we just simply state what the truth is and then you free to decide. >> Come on now. >> You know, and the thing, you know, the brother mentioned one of the ayats, uh, it says whether you're Christian, whether you're Jew, whether you're Savior, you know, those who believe and do good, man, you gonna have your reward. >> Wow. You see, and those are things that we learn in prison, everybody's not going to think the same. That's real. >> So, if I come talk to a brother and whatever he's affiliated with, I'm not going to condemn what he's doing. I'm not going to come to his brother here, you know, he trail setting [ __ ] and I'm not going to sit here and talk about Tuki and man, that's, you know, that's his guy, >> correct? >> You know, but I'm going to find some commonality, you know. I'mma find something that's central and essential to both of us and focus with that. You see, and that's the thing that has happened, you know, to us, especially as black people. We banging everything. The biggest set trippers and bangers are religious. Come on, man. You just saying don't put a a stumbling block in the front of your brother. That's exactly simply said. And it's the same thing that I read. So the concept only thing I seen with you guys was the discipline to where the prayer came at a certain time. The way y'all faced and all I was watching all that, you know what I mean? And it was like, dang, man. They we these so-called uh Christian, they just run around and it ain't no nobody holding nobody accountable in certain ways when I was and I would trip off of that. But then I would get criticized a lot cuz I might stand up in the middle of everybody and just say, "Man, let's do parallel circle." They like you wasn't doing that in the world and now they everybody was on my job. I'm trying to get I'm trying to change and they condemning it because >> but that's out of ignorance. >> Yeah. Out of ignorance. >> And it's not really ignorance. It's out of fear. >> Yeah. There you go. You know, and and the same thing you say about Christianity. >> I can pray whenever I don't have to do this. But it's out of fear doing the right thing. Because when you go to visit your girlfriend, you wash up, put on cologne. You dig what I'm saying? So when you go, so you don't do that for God. >> Wow. >> You know what I'm saying? So there's proper preparation prevents poor performance. The five Ps, you know? So that's uh brother man more uh how you in the street and you a Muslim like >> that state this religion. >> Yeah. >> Allah knew I was a [ __ ] when he made me. He didn't make me the pope, >> right? >> You know what I'm saying? That's what Dubc asked me. Said, "Mom, you a Muslim? I'm a DIFFERENT KIND OF MUSLIM. Strippers need to be saved, too. Don't they?" >> That's it. THAT'S IT. >> SOMEBODY GOT TO GO. >> SOMEBODY GOT TO GO, MAN. It's funny you say that cuz I told his brother the same thing. I said, "Man, I didn't know where I I done witnessed in the strip club. I done rededicated my life in the in the girl front yard and left and didn't even MESS WITH HER. PREACHING NOW, BRO. >> SO, it's just it's important, you know, and and man, you know, now that's what I love about the South because I mean, you brothers have a dedication no matter what it is that we had in the 60s and we lost it in LA. We've become so Neapolitan, you know, political. So I'm nonpolitical. I'm a warrior. I'm not an even good soldier in the nation, man. I ain't going to take no order by by the grace of Allah. I'VE NEVER BEEN ON F TIME. But see, and I should have been, but man, that's how I told him, man. Don't put no in my brother. He he got good Shahid Muhammad. That's his guy, man. He took, man, I he used to bully me when we was kids. He was a businessman >> and had no business at all taking my quarters. >> You know, but it's just like and we were saying before about our children and how we make enemies of each other. >> Okay. >> And I I I holler about that all the time. If you come through my neighborhood, them youngsters going to pull they they going to pull away where you from blood. But when the police come, they drop their gun and run. What? Where did the gangster come in at? >> That's crazy. >> I We had I had an argument with some brothers in San Quinton back in ' 83. >> Okay. >> And we were they were we were talking about Scarface. That's the name of Scarface. And And we talk about Scarface. And so a killer to me is a killer. I don't discriminate in killing. If you got to go, you got to go. You know, so they were talking about how he Tony made the right decision when he was paid to kill Miss Snitch and the kids was in the car. Right. >> Right, >> man. We don't kill no kids. >> No women and no kids. >> If I'm a rat, my kids is rats, too. All rats die. >> I don't agree with that. I mean, you don't have to agree with it, but professionally I get you. Okay. Look at the godfather >> when dude killed the godfather's father and did he tried to get the kid but he got away. Don Carleon got away and he grew up to come back and kill him. >> You feel what I'm saying? Yes, sir. >> So, when you have an enemy, you kill everything that that's around with the enemy. >> Wow. You you know what I'm saying? So and and and I was I was talking to somebody and we were talking about my cases and and like how do I feel about murder and some people say it's a and I learned that I'm not the author of life and death, >> right? No matter what I do to you, if a lion took his hand off you, you ain't going to die. >> Wow. >> But everything he does, he sent a man to do it. always a man, >> you know. So, I can't take possession of a body that didn't belong to me. I've been stabbed three times in prison and I'm still here. Wasn't my turn. >> Turn. >> I done seen dudes get stabbed 40 times and survive. I done seen them get stabbed once and die dead. Dead. >> Wow. >> So, when it's your time, I don't care where you are. when he show uh it's it's a scripture it's it's a part of the hadith and it says that the death angel came looking for so and so and they was asking about this man and say the man heard him and he ran to the other city and when he ran to the other city he RAN INTO THE DEATH ANGEL OH he said man you I was just over there looking for you and I WAS I DIDN'T GET you I was going to get so and so in. But since you here, >> since you here, >> peace be still. >> Wow. >> You know what I'm saying? >> Let me ask you a question, man. Like this, when you got out, how tough was it to to maintain and do the things? Did do you hit some points out here where you was doing this job and you hit some roadblocks and some places where it took you a little bit, but you got past it? You know what I mean? Whether it be some stops like you can't get in this door, you can't get in that door. You know what I mean? every door. Did every door just pop open or was it some times when you had to sit there and say, "Man, am I ever going to get this door open?" Man, this ball starts, right? >> I was out and Amazon had just come to Memphis. So, 2018. So, they having this um job fair, but you hired when you walk in, >> you get your ID, you getting your schedule, the last thing is the drug test and uh background check. Background check. >> So, I go through all of that. Now I'm sitting in there, everybody smelling like they just smoke one. Everybody in there, how you going to pass the test? So I say, "Well, how what kind of test they giving?" They was giving the cheeks. Wow. Well, when you learn how to beat drug test in prison, hey, take your piece of candy that's going to dilute the the jaws and it ain't going to come back. They're going to come back inconclusive. You see? Oh, thank you, OG. Thank you, OG. You know how they do. So now I got a college degree. Now I'm knowing all of this is is getting some boxes put on a truck. But hey, you supposed to be gainfully employed once you get out, you on parole. So, all right, I'm going to get something and start there and work my way up. I get a letter telling me I'm not qualified. You know, they turning me down because my background. I said, "You mean tell me I can't even pick up a box and put on a truck?" >> Right. Right. >> I said, "Man, this a sham. It's a sham." So, now I'm like, "Okay, I got to figure this thing out." So I started doing things, taking a few um speaking engagements or whatn not just keep some change. But I had a great support system cuz I the what I told Bo Peak I practiced myself. I always thought like a free man. >> So the monies I would get I would always set a certain percentage to the side. Hey, if I get out I want to have enough money to go to Savior's Day. Holy day at home told me I'm good after that. You know that was it. So, my support system was was phenomenal. >> That's right. >> Uh there was a brother in the mosque that worked for UPS and and they was having a brotherhood day and I'm kind of like, you know how sometime you be like frustrated. So, they had I was like, "Man, I'm not going over there. I ain't I don't want to fool with nobody." Brother called me. He said, "Hey, brother, you going to come over?" And it's about an hour into the thing. I said, "Well, brother, you know I'm late." He said, "Man, we still here." So, I showed up. We got to talking. He said, "Man, call this guy." And then I mean I called the guy, they called me in, did the interview. I'm waiting on somebody to come in and tap me on the shoulder after they do the background check. >> It never happened. >> So I I got in after about 6 months cuz you know my background was in management. I got a um I had an NBA now, but I had a BA then. >> Yeah. >> And hey, supervised position coming up. You want that? I was like, >> what? So So the door started popping open. Yes, sir. >> Well, because I didn't put up a lot of pictures and stuff uh in myself, but I had a couple things. I had by Minister Rockman, I am a soldier, >> and I had uh I want to say it's Ephesians, >> but it says, "Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all of his righteousness, all other things will be added to you." >> So, I said, "That's what I'm going to do." M. >> So when I got out and I started soldiering, >> you know, I started doing that and he just the God just started bringing people into my, you know, we don't believe in in no spookism. So, um, I heard Minister Nuri teaching on this >> that, you know, there's two forces, >> you know, there centrial force and transfigural force. I'm not pronouncing it right. >> Centrifugal. >> Centrifugal. Thank you. >> Centrifugal. >> Yeah. Centrifugal. Thank you. And so one pushes things away from you that's not like you, but the other one draws things to that's similar. And so the the the the math is that as you are doing positive things, positive things come to you. Come on now. >> And the negative things go away from you. That's right. And so that's that's what I I focused on. And when I had those setbacks or or just I just believe that you know what I heard a brother tell me he said man didn't bring you from there to leave you now. >> Come on now. >> You know and I've had some things happen since I've been out. You know we uh it may be a time for another show. I don't know. >> Oh we going we going we going we going to definitely bag one up. We going >> I want to say something that what uh brother has said. You know, I would there's a scripture in the in the Bible and it talks about the time of Moses and Pharaoh, >> okay? >> And he saw the children of Israel multiplying >> and he got with his advisor and he said, "The children of Israel are multiply." He said, "Come, let us deal wisely with them before they join on to an enemy and come against us." The same thing is happening in America. Come on. >> America is a modern Egypt. The president is the modern pharaoh. And that children of Israel, we have been erroneously taught that we thinking it's somewhere else. It's really black people. We the only people that's been in bondage for 400 years. You talk to a Jew, the thing they pride themselves in is just like in the book of John chapter 8 when Jesus told them, he said, "You shall know the truth and the truth will make you free." The Jew replied, "How be it you say we will be made free when we have never been in bondage to any man." That's right. >> They had Moses's history. They knew they weren't the people that were prophesied to that was in bondage. That's the black man and woman here in America. We are the people that are strangers in the strange land. We the ones that fulfilling the prophecy in Genesis, but we haven't been told that. So now they seeing us rise. They seeing our young people, man. They warriors by nature. Why? Because the God that created them is a warrior god. >> He's not this milk toast sisified thing that's been presented. He's a warrior god and he needs soldiers to do this kind of work. So they say, "Man, come let us now us." A conspiracy is two or more people engaged in the act usually murder. What was the plan? killed a male and sped a female. Not that he loved the woman more, but he had a different role and purpose for her. So, I killed a male. Who was the president talking to? Cuz this is the Pharaoh. He talking to his DEA. He talking to the CIA. He talking to the FBI. He talking to Homeland Security, the the >> Secretary of Education. These are his magicians and so now I'mma kill the male. I got to first make you killable in order to kill you in front of everybody and have your death ruled as justifiable. >> Yes, ma'am. >> See, so now I got to paint our youth with a broad brush. Come on. >> Make them look a certain way. Oh, they this they encourageable. Hillary Clinton came up with the term super predator. Think about that. And we didn't say nothing. Super predator. See, like you have a pre uh inclination to do wrong. And everything we do, they blasted and now the people are cry out because grandmama got a a reasonable expectation not to leave her yard and something bad happened to her. So now they calling out to the enemy, hey, come in and do something. That's how the task force got here. You had your eye on Memphis the whole time, but you were just waiting to create a situation so you could come down here and do what you already had planned. They want to take the city, so they got to do something with the young people. Huh? I got to lock you away in prison. He said life sentence was 7 years. In Tennessee, it was 13. Then it went to 25. Now it's 51 years. When you do a study, the sociologist that studied it, man, you lucky to live 30 years in prison and and not get killed or die or or be out of your mind. So, how are you going to serve 51 years? Come. >> But he just just told me that I couldn't imagine. He just told me he said, "Ramar, we ain't got nobody in our Tennessee prison 60, 70 years old >> that didn't done 60 or 70." One of my homeboys, uh, Bosy Burton, he'd been down since 1968. >> Still doing time. Wow. Almost 60 years in prison. Went to prison when he was 16. >> Wow. >> You know what I'm saying? And to imagine that the prison system is so diseased that a man can't do 50 years. >> Can't. He said, "Man, we ain't got nobody here can survive." >> 50 years. >> Look at the food. Wow. The food has depreciated. They used to grow food prison farms or what they used to call them. Now they have what they call cook chill. Now air, which is a multi- conglomerate that serves all these institutions. Jay, all of these people are like, man, vultures that pray off the backs of our poor people, you know. Uh, you get sent you from Memphis, but you get sent out east to a prison. >> You know, your family can't >> transacting. >> Yeah. Come on. They can't do that. You know, Teddale, you know, it's one of the worst prisons in the in the United States. You know, it make Angola look like a day camp. >> What, >> man? Tale. Oh, man. The thing in prison now, uh, it started as I was leaving the drugs, you know, because when you don't have programs or you don't have that that that visual of strong black men, see, the nation had produced strong brothers. And even if you wasn't in the nation, we would go out on the yard, we work out together. Then you have Christian brothers, hey man, can we work out with y'all? Sure. You know, then the brothers in the street organizations, they they would lean that way. They would say, "Man, come on." So, we all working out. If something go on, we know we had set up what we call a United Nations. We come to the table cuz we don't want no war. >> You know, there was a young brother. He was in the pod. He didn't know about the shower security. And so, he kind of walked in front of some white boys and they called they felt comfortable enough to put their hands on them. What they did is they did a interview. What they do out here is called a poll. They take a poll. >> Mhm. >> Hey, is he with y'all? Is Hey, is he with y'all? No. Now, if you say, "No, I don't know him." What you giving them is license, which was what we had to teach them. The reply is, "Well, he's not he's not with us, but what's the problem?" Act concerned about the brother. >> That's all. >> That's all you got to do. So, they put hands on the brother. And so, now we on the yard. The word get out. So, they come out to the yard. They say, "You know, brother minister, you know this what happened. Now what you want to do? I said, "Well, brother, let's talk cuz they ready to move. If I say move, then it's gonna move." White boy out there. Can I see? I said, "No, sir. We can't talk right now. We can't talk right now." So, I mean, we walking now to me, it's a 100 other brothers cuz I'm talking to the the top guys. You one of the the chieftains of the vice lords in particular, and he got their guys. So I said, "Well, brother, find out what the young man want to do." Well, the young man, he only had a little time. He didn't really want that kind of action. I said, "Well, you know, it still got to be dealt with, >> right?" >> So, they requested a meeting. I said, "Well, you come in, you have uh your lieutenant wait for you outside the room. They going to check you and we going to sit down and talk." And this is what I told him. I said, "Brother, under no circumstances do any white boy put their hands on a brother, affiliated or not." I said, "We discipline our own. If you have a problem, then you say what the problem is and then if he's in error after we investigate it, cuz we not taking your word, then we'll deal with it." And I said, "And we'll allow you to do the same." I said, "This can never happen again." And he said, "Yes, sir." He said, "Man, we don't want no problems." And of course, they they don't, >> you know, and but you have to talk like that. See, I wasn't talking for Muslims. I'm talking for the whole body. Cuz that's what Minister Far say, speak for the whole. >> That's right. >> Speak for the whole. And when you got structure like that. >> So what they did, they introduced drugs. They start flooding. >> That's right. >> And so when you not mentally strong or or fortified in something, then you start taking drugs. Now that become your god. That's right. >> You wake up, that's it. It's all you thinking about. So, it's hard to organize brothers now. You don't have uh brothers in the law library fighting their cases, man. They just trying to get high. >> They allow you when when these first came out. >> Cell phones, right? >> To get caught with a cell phone, you was going to max. No question. >> For sure. >> Now, they even write you up for it. They just take it. >> Yeah. >> They barely write you up for it. Why? Because this is a pacifier. See my baby but it's aformational process >> in the right hands. >> No no no what I'm sayingformational process in California >> they put phones in the institution because every phone is mon you can't hide nothing in there. >> I'm with you now. Yeah. >> So now you Hey blood what happened on the street. So now they go and monitor every number >> and now they know who's on the street. So now somebody oh man he snitched on me. No you snitched on yourself. Yeah, >> these phones. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. 100%. Because they could block them cuz they have these wands they can block. >> Yeah. They got they got phone blockers, but they they would use them when they first came out. >> Yeah. >> But they found out it was too much information. >> They have >> because see a cell phone why this is they call it the Obama phone cuz it's a snitch phone. The reason that they start giving free phones because the crackheads will give them to the dope dealers. >> Wow. >> Now they can ping your phone. You think you got a burner and you getting burnt? >> Come on, G. Yes, sir. You know, absolutely. Absolutely. >> See, he this wicked plan he has and we fall into it for convenience. >> That's one thing I love about his state, Texas. Boy, look at I had a white attorney named uh uh um Richard Cobb. He told me in 1978, he said, "Never say nothing on the phone that you can't say in court. All phones are tapped." >> All phones. >> You know what I'm saying? >> And we the only ones don't believe that. >> We the only ones don't believe. >> They have it on the on the jail phone. They say all these calls are being monitored and and and and young young slug talking on the phone. gossiping like this girl and you in court then they bringing up all this like how you know you told them >> you told I I got one of my little homeboys out out of Georgia hey Major Grahams here on the Facebook he got a switch >> a gang of money >> and some hair and the next day he get busted >> right >> he called me oh gee so my [ __ ] you told on yourself >> that's right >> you got the same clothes on you had yesterday. Wow. So, yeah, that's so and and let me shout out to uh brother Bo Pete, free both Pete, free Ali, uh Terry Smith and Quinton uh uh Quinton Sanders. These brothers is working hard to try to get about the penitentiary and they doing they brought us down here when me and Melvin came down here from prison. >> These brothers got y'all come down here. >> Had us come down here, bro. That's that I mean this this is how deep they are. But see they say whoever run the ghetto run the prison. >> Yeah. >> So the prison is just a myopic view of what society is. >> You feel what I'm saying? And when you get that kind of unity just like we saw yesterday. It's nowhere in California we have OG rappers like that. >> Wow. >> Cub them is OG's. Yeah. in Cali 40 years in. But what's the man DID? THE BELLY DANCE. >> I forgot his name, but I know exactly. >> Man, you I don't know none of that music cuz in the ' 90s I was in prison, you >> and I both I, you know, I wasn't privy to it. But I'm listening to them brothers. These is grown men rapping, >> loving it, >> you know, and and and being embraced by the youngsters >> that they I'm looking at this. It's like it was like going to a cookout. >> Come on, man. you. I was so happy up in there. You You not really tripping about being on stage and this. I almost >> I got him on the stage yesterday. No, you >> Yes, I did. I pulled him out. >> I almost Yeah. He was the guy told me, "Shout out to my boy Dead Wilder." He say, "Man, where OG at?" Cuz I'm already out there, you know. I ain't got much of a dance, but I'm Yes, sir. I'm enjoying the vibe of the music. I said, "There you go right there. Get him out here, man." And he did that because he wanted people to know that we came down here to support them, too. So I thought, you know, he wanted you to be seen that he came this boy. >> I got to say this, it was a couple years ago and it now that was a cold winter in Memphis Martin Luther King was the march. So we all met. We had a a meeting the day before. I don't know it was a church, but it was somewhere. And that's where I first met my brother. >> Okay. Okay. >> And uh Benny was there. >> Benny. Yeah. We was at We was over at at the museum at the sister sister Carleta I think her name is. >> Yes. Sister we all that's the first time I had met the brother in person. Yeah. >> And and when I walked in there was a brother and certain people if I hear a certain thing I know it's a brother from prison. That's how they refer to him. Yeah. >> So when I looked up, I hadn't seen him in decades and he was on the phone with the brothers in the prison facetiming, you know, and so then we sat there. It was beautiful. And then like I say, Bo Peep and uh brother Ali been knowing them. But like I say, >> these brothers, man, under them circumstances still got the love, compassion for their people to try and put something together from the inside. And and that's beautiful. And I was talking with both people. I talked to his mother a few weeks ago. >> Okay. >> And he kept saying, "Brother," he would say, "A" he said, "A man, I remember when you told him this." I said, "Bro, you always telling me what I told you." I didn't even think you was listening back then. But but I said that to say it's our job to pour into these these young warriors. Yes, sir. >> You know, and >> how much more time you want them to do? nothing the the you know they'll get set off because I got set off when I first went. >> Seriousness of the offense is what they use here in Tennessee. Well, your offense is not going to change. That's what got you the time. >> So my, you know, my track record is supposed to dictate whether I get another opportunity. We love saying that this is a country of second chances. That's what we say >> only when it we only for white folk. It ain't for us. >> Think about this, man. I'm I'm about to wrap this whole thing up, but just me going up there, me and Larry Hoover Jr. and hanging out with him when his daddy when he turned 50, I went up there and and basically he was in maximum security, his daddy was. And we celebrating, you know, Larry Junior's 50th birthday, but also bringing up the fact that his dad been locked up for over 50 years now. And I'm up there just trying to figure out a way to bring light to this. This was before um before Trump pardoned him and he ended up had getting to come out and a lot of people and Larry called me that day when they did that. And a lot of people don't understand that was a win. Like I told that that's a win because he been in maximum security all this time. Now he never got to hug his grandson or hug his wife. Now he get to do that right >> at 75. He's 75 now. >> But he been in there since the early 70s. You know what I'm But see, you can say that's a win, but for my mentality, I've been secluded. >> Correct. >> And to put out on this, I remember the first the first dude name was Bob Wales when I first went to prison. And Bob Wills, it was a old life. Did 42 years in prison. Old grouchy man, you I kill you. You with a stick. And so in 1975 when they had determined sentence they parole Bob Wales to Delansancy Street on but for 42 years he had been going clockwise >> right >> and his whole life had been clockwise. So his peripheral vision to go he had a nervous breakdown cuz he wasn't used to having to do things on his own. >> You you feel what I'm saying? >> So it's a big change. >> It's a big change. you apostate. I ain't done that much. But it was a when I first I I had never been to a mall before when I first got out of prison >> and we didn't have a mall. >> It was overwhelming when you came out. >> When I got in my mom and took me to the mall and I'm seeing if a white boy coming past ME, SOMEBODY GOT TO DIE this way. It's quickly coming >> counterclockwise is murder, >> right? >> Everything is clockwise. So your mind is still calling. >> So I'm looking I'm walk and do this this Mexican dude walked and bumped me and I HIT HIM AND EVERYBODY WHAT'S WRONG WITH this mind? >> I had to go sit in the car because it was over >> overwhelmed. Are you ALL RIGHT? WHAT WHAT'S WRONG? >> That's hard >> because some things like you got a pattern in survival of your life, >> right? So this man been in a ADX and conforming with people with liked minds and hear my 22y old ass come up on him. brother can man hold up. You're talking too loud. >> Hold on. And and same thing with you. Yes, sir. >> When you came out just I always ask that question. I got OG, but I got to ask you this like how was it trying to reestablish yourself? You know what I mean? Back into the community being that you have been confined for all those years. >> Individuals out here, they don't mean no harm. We didn't play in prison. Everything was serious. So it's a lot of, you know, joking course gesturing and joking. >> I remember I was at work and I walked by a few youngsters and you know having discernment, you know, you got that six sense of being locked up and so you come in, you can read the room real quick. So I'm knowing, okay, you just said something concerning me. I don't know what it was. And then he laughed and chuckled. >> So I said, hey, bro, what's what's what's up? What's funny? >> Oh man. I said, no. I said, "One, I heard my name. Now you laughing." >> Laughing. >> I said, "So now tell me what's funny." I said, "I want to laugh, too. I want to feel good, too." You know, I'm going in. I'm not on the yard. My brother had to grab me. He said, "Hey, he he said he said, "Oh, G, you scaring me, man. You spooking, man." I was like, "Man, yeah." >> Yeah. >> Because of where you had been all the years. >> I was like that. >> Yeah, man. Here you are laughing. So, when you think I'm a [ __ ] or a toy, >> I don't know what it is. Well, we we got we got to figure this out right now. >> Wow. >> Some We either going to laugh together, somebody going to cry, >> man. Listen, respect. That's just respect. >> You guys dope, man. I I sure I can talk to y'all the rest of the day, brother. But I ain't going to lie to you cuz get to the >> Yeah, that's right. And that's why I'm I'm shutting it down, man. I just want to tell you thank you, brother. Man, if I'm ever back down here or you ever in Texas, man, I'd love to redo this again, sit down again with you, man, because it's so many jewels in what you you guys, man. Listen, man. What we all been through, but what you guys been through, brother, man, is blessing others that's out here trying to figure out how to navigate and stay out of those doors. How did you do it? We don't have nothing to look at to say, "How did you do it?" And we need this information out there. Thank God for a podcast where other brothers can see brothers that's out here really doing it and God being on their side and helping them to make it through. You know what I'm saying? So, thank you so much, bro, for coming on the show, brother. I got to >> I hope you enjoyed as much as I did. That's all. >> I did. I did. I want a shout out of course to brother I told him my paths crossed and and you know when I got the message that he wanted to talk to him, I'm like, "Yeah, my number sure." And then once we we hooked up, you know, so it was it was beautiful. Sister Jada them. We got to our sister soldiers, Sister Jada, Sister Sean. Uh they I mean they they riding for the brothers inside. And we got some black women that's truly, you know, that are trying to make this a better place. Everybody in a hoochie, >> man. Thank you so much. And I and last but not least, man, I want the listeners to know because one of the things, man, that we have to understand >> that we can't do it alone. You got to have a right. Help me. And I got here, you told me yesterday was your 23rd wedding anniversary. >> 23rd. Yeah. We've been married for 23 years. Me and Miss Jamaica. >> That is a testament, man. You know, God knew what he was doing when he gave us this black woman. Come on. >> I'm going tell you, I've been blessed to do a lot of things, but the best thing I did after two years of being out, man, I was blessed to meet my wife. Praise be to Lord. >> And my wife is is the rock. You know, she's always pushed me out there. She said, "Hey, you you know, she encouraged me to do more of this, man. It's needed." But, you know, I want to say, I just heard this this week, right? Yes, sir. And it says, "For every Adam there's a Eve. And for every Eve, there's a Adam. And if you're not, you the snake." >> Hey, that's I like that. >> Yeah, I got to use that one. >> I got the >> Thank you so much for coming on the show, man. How can people get a hold of you if they trying to get help? >> Uh, brother, uh, you can reach me. Uh my email is kenneth rafar aph.org and email me and uh we can go from there. Okay. And that uh we give a phone number we can talk. I'm easy easy to get in. Oh >> you're you're not on social media. Facebook Instagram. >> Kenneth Muhammed Facebook Instagram is all the same. You know man say Kenneth Muhammed and at Miles 55. >> Listen man. Thank you guys so much man. I appreciate you man. There's a lot of love in this room, man. And I tell you what, man. I I You did it again, OG. You You brought me something in. You brought me a jewel in, man. Something to put some fat on my head. I'm trying to get this trying to wrap my hands around the rubbish. I do. I get one. >> Say the trash can't get a steak every night. >> Hey man, thank you for coming on the show, man. We love you, brother. >> It's been another great segment of Boss Talk 101, where the bosses talk, man. Yeah, we on Boss Talk 101. Yeah, we going to talk. We going to have fun. We be on fire. We be lit. Lit.