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Judea Pearl: Correlation and Causation | AI Podcast Clips

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In this discussion, Judea Pearl distinguishes between correlation and causation, arguing that while probability measures how often events occur together over time or across variables, true understanding requires causal logic. He posits that human intuition naturally seeks a reason for why things vary together; if two phenomena do not see each other directly, their joint variation implies an underlying cause. Pearl emphasizes that conditional probability differs fundamentally from causation because conditioning on a variable is often merely the experimenter's choice to ignore certain incidents rather than a reflection of physical reality. He illustrates this with the example of flipping uncorrelated coins where introducing a bell that rings when one coin lands tails creates an artificial correlation simply by observing only those cases where the bell rang, demonstrating how observational data can mislead if causal logic is not applied correctly. The speaker critiques what he terms "naive science," noting that much of traditional research attempts to impose causal conclusions on correlational data without sufficient justification. He highlights specific disciplines like psychology and Applied Psychology as fields often plagued by this leap from correlation to causation, particularly when dealing with complex variables such as human behavior in semi-autonomous vehicles. In these modern studies, researchers face ethical constraints that prevent controlled experiments; for instance, one cannot ethically turn off an autonomous driving system on public roads just because a driver is tired. Consequently, scientists must rely on observational data where drivers choose whether to keep the vehicle active or deactivate it when fatigued, creating uncontrolled environments where inferring causation becomes difficult and prone to error. To contextualize this historical struggle with causal inference, Pearl references an ancient experiment from approximately 2,000 years ago involving Daniel and the Babylonian king. In that story, a group of exiled individuals requested vegetarian food instead of meat due to dietary restrictions, leading their overseer to conduct a test comparing their performance against those eating the King's standard diet after one week. The results showed the vegetarians performed better, effectively serving as an early experiment on whether specific causes (diet) affect outcomes (mental ability). Pearl notes that while ancient thinkers like Democritus recognized the importance of discovering single causes to understand reality, it was not until the 1920s that mathematics finally developed enough tools to rigorously capture these causal distinctions. Ultimately, the conversation concludes with a reflection on how classical physics and algebra often fail to address causality because their equations are symmetrical; an equality sign works both ways regardless of which variable is considered the cause or effect. Pearl argues that science has historically lacked the specific mathematical framework needed to express statements like "X causes Y but Y does not cause X," a limitation that persists despite centuries of inquiry into human behavior and natural phenomena. This gap between intuitive causal reasoning and formal scientific capability remains central to modern challenges in fields ranging from ancient dietary studies to contemporary autonomous vehicle safety, underscoring the necessity for new mathematical disciplines dedicated strictly to causation rather than mere correlation.
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what is correlation what is it so probability of something happening is something but then there's a bunch of things happening and sometimes they happen together sometimes not they're independent or not so how do you think about correlation of things correlational kills when two things very together over very long time is one way of measuring it or when you have a bunch of variables that it was very quickly then recalled we have a correlation here and usually when we think about correlation we really think cosy things and cannot be called as unless there is a reason for them to vary together why should they vary together if they don't see each other why should they vary together so underlying it somewhere is causation yes hidden in our intuition D is a notion of causation because we cannot grasp any other logic except causation and how does conditional probability differ from causation so what is conditional probability conditional probability how things vary when one of them a stays the same now staying the same means that I have chosen to look only on those incidents where the guy has the same value as previous one it's my choice as an experimenter so things that are not calling it before could become correlated like for instance if I have two coins which are uncorrelated okay and I choose only those flipping experiments in which the bell rings and bell rings when it is one of them is it tailed then suddenly I see correlation between the two points because I only looked at the cases where the bell rang you see is my design with my ignorance essentially with my audacity to ignore certain incident I suddenly create any combination really doesn't think this physically right so that's you just outlined one of the flaws of observing the world and and trying to infer something from the math about the world looking at the correlation I don't look at the floor the world works like that which me but the flows comes if we try to impose causal logic on correlation it doesn't work too well I mean but that's exactly what we do that's what that's has been the majority of science is your reality of of naive science the decisions know it the decisions know it if you condition on a third variable and you can destroy or create correlations among two other variables they know it it's in your data right nothing surprising that's why they all dismiss the symptom paradox ah we know it you don't know anything about it well there's this disciplines like psychology where all the variables are hard to account for and so oftentimes there's a leap between correlation to causation your your leap who is trying to get causation from correlation not you're not proving causation but you're sort of discussing it and implying sort of hypothesizing without liability which discipline you have in mind I'll tell you if they are obsolete is they are outdated oh they're about to get outdated oh yes tell me which one is all psychology you know okay what is the ACM no no I was thinking of Applied Psychology studying uh for example we work with human behavior and semi autonomous vehicles how people behave and you have to conduct these studies of people driving cars everything start with the question what is the research question what is the research question the research question do people fall asleep when the car is driving itself do they fall asleep or do they tend to fall asleep more frequently more fickle and the car not drive lines not driving it's it's a good question okay and so you measure you put people in the car because it's real world you can't conduct an experiment where you control everything why can't you can you could do my automatic a module on and off because it's on Road public I mean there's yes it's a there's aspects to it it's unethical because it's testing on public roads so you can only use vehicle you they have to the people the drivers themselves have to make that choice themselves mmm-hmm and so they regulate that and so you just observe when they drive it and honestly when they don't and then maybe they turning off when they will very tired yeah that's kind of thing but you you don't know those there okay so that you have now uncontrolled uncontrolled experiment we recall it observational study yeah and we firm the correlation and detected that we have to infer causal relationship and whether it was the automatic peace it caused them to fall asleep oh so that is an issue that they about 120 years old yeah I should only go a hundred years old and well maybe it no I actually I should say it's 2,000 years old because we have this experiment by Daniel but the Babylonian king that wanted them the exiled people from Israel that were taken in in exile to babylon to serve the king he wanted to serve them King's food which was meat in Daniel as a good you couldn't eat a non-kosher food so he asked them to eat vegetarian food but the key overseer says I'm sorry but if the King see that your performance falls below that of other kids you know he's going to kill me then you said let's make an experiment let's take four of us from Jerusalem okay us vegetarian food let's take the other guys that to eat the King's food in about a week's time we'll test our performance and you know the answer of course he did the experiment and they were so much better than the others if the King's nominated them to super position in so it was a first experiment yes so today there was a very simple it's also the same research questions we want to know a vegetarian food assist or obstructing your mental ability and the question is very old even Democritus said if I could discover one cause of things I would rather discuss the one cause and be king of Persia did they task of discovering causes what's in the mind of ancient people from many many years ago but the mathematics of doing this was only developed in the 1920s so science has left us often okay science is not provided that with the mathematics to capture the idea of X causes Y and y does not cause X because all the question of physics are symmetrical algebraic the Equality sign goes both ways you