Jordan Peterson’s Opinion On The Incel Movement

let me give you this this is why I think the beginning of the incel movement and the black pill movement was born out of pick a Artistry the origin if you trace it back using internet history of the incel blackpill uh ideology was a I think it's a subreddit or a website called Pua hate pickup artist hate and what it was was a group of men who had been through the pipeline of pickup Artistry yeah and come out the other side with a very jaded and even more jaded view of the world even more jaded yes and I'll tell you why so what happens if a guy learns old school mid2 norts pickup Artistry is you realize that there is a particular set of actions a script that you can run which makes it more likely that a woman is going to go to bed with you right right right right but what you realize when you do that as you learn how to neag and do Kino escalation and tell them that story about the fight outside or whatever your script is that you're running you then begin to see just how far away that person is from the person that you actually show up as right who you are and this extravagant Persona that you need to convolute into existence in order to get this woman into bed makes you feel worse even F the gap between where you are and what you have to do in order to achieve the thing that you want now what you don't realize is that there are a million other ways that you could become sufficiently Charming to get this person to like you this is by actually doing it for example this is just one that happens to be robust and easy enough to write down in a book and easy enough for most guys form of scripted psychopathy so what a psychopath does is feain competence right so most psychopaths are very emotionally stable and so one of the early St stage markers for competence is self-possession and calmness and so if you're not an anxious person you've got an edge on that already and most psychopaths are very high in emotional stability and so they look confident because confident people tend not to be that nervous like if you're doing something you're expert at well you're not nervous because you know how to do it okay so the lack of nervousness is a hint to competence well you can feain that you can feain competence you can feain confidence that's what the pickup artists teach now I would say there's even some utility in what they do right because if you're dependent and bitter and resentful and charmless and self destructive and nervous and socially unskilled the probability that you're going to be successful with women is very very low okay so you should be other than who you are now if you start putting on this Persona then you could think about that as a new suit of clothes and you could learn through that how to fill in the gaps take it until you make it absolutely absolutely but if you take on that without doing the effort necessary to integrate that in a genuine way then all that's happening is that you're you're being rewarded for being fake yeah right and that's part of the problem with that too is that you're practicing learning how to manipulate people in a Psychopathic way and if you practice that of course you're going to become jaded like there's nothing more jaded than a psychopath I mean that's that's the ultimate extreme of jadedness and if you practice manipulating especially if the women happen to be reasonably good women if you practice manipulating them and you're successful then you're learning to be one you're learning to be one horrible person now you know as you're completely useless unproductive and undesirable former self you weren't exactly Stellar to begin with but substituting psychopathy for that was sort of like substituting cynicism for naivity now that's a complex problem I mean part of the reason that people like Andrew Tate are so attractive to young guys is because they do put up that confident that false confidence Tate's a complicated guy cuz it's not all false you know real people are complicated the way that like villains in in comic books aren't Tate's a fighter it's clearly the case that he's got a certain degree of physical bravery that's real all right there's an element of what he says that's very attractive to bed bedroom basement dwelling losers because he's at least there out in the world you know taking the blows and he's got a fast car and he's flashy and he's attractive to women but a lot of what he's done especially with women doesn't just border into the psychopathic it crosses the line and that's not a good model it's not an optimal model for people who are trying to progress but it's a strange thing because just as cism is an improvement over naivity right the capacity to be dark is an improvement over the lack of ability to be dark at all and so Tate is attractive in the way that the shadow beckons to people who are undeveloped right because it does it's like you're you're neurotic and you're dependent and you're repressed because you're immature and harmless well one way out of that is to stop being harmless and one of the things you can say about Tate is that he's not harmless right well that's that's a it's a virtue now it's a virtue that has to be bracketed it's like cynicism is a virtue compared to naivity but it's not it's not virtuous in and of itself it's a step on the way and so maybe you can learn how to Fain confidence and you can learn how that works and maybe that's an improvement I had a guy in my clinical practice who got involved with the pickup artist community and he told me taught me a lot about it and one of the exercises that their initiates had to do was to go out and ask 50 women for their phone number in one day and that's a great exercise you know and I'm not exposure therapy approach anxiety absolutely absolutely getting over your fear of rejection right and 50 times they'll do that because you're going to get rejected the vast majority of times Well likely 50 times although generally that wasn't people's experience you know if if they were even vaguely skilled they'd at least get a false phone number out of the deal but then they could they learned that the rejection wasn't as catastrophic as they thought but more importantly they learned that they could continue moving forward in the face of rejection so the thing that it makes me think about there is intellect ual humility and how tightly people hold on to their beliefs that if you believe that you are always going to be right that there is nothing to learn outside of you and that any kind of admission that you might be wrong is tant amount to destruction it does exactly the same thing you need to and it goes back to uh asking stupid questions being prepared to ask the stupid questions and look not like the most informed person in the room but also importantly nowhere near the most stupid person in the room because you're the one that's asking the question the stupidest person in the room is the person who doesn't know and won't ask or even worse who doesn't know and won't ask and acts like they know ah yeah that's not good at all yeah there's a from your see that's part of that idea that you should love your enemy so you might say well why should you do that well your enemy is going to be your harshest critic now it's possible that if you have a very good enemy that he will show you flaws in your character that you didn't know were there and so that's a it's a very it's a very strange way of looking at the world to think that you should welcome an attack you should it and this is but this is right yeah I'm saying that with all due caution let's say the most the more vicious the attack the more of your potential hidden flaws might be revealed have you found that to be true oh definitely but I've also found that the attacks force you to contend with it to to see if it's there right to to test it I suppose the attacks that have come after me that have been most successful they they're almost always journalists and they're usually British female journalists but not always we produce a nation of hard-hitting journalists yeah well in faith in journalists is the lowest in the UK and anywhere in the western world and I can see why you know but there's some Advantage there's some real advantage to facing someone it's a Pharisee problem in in the gospels Christ was always contending with these Pharisees and what the Pharisees were always trying to do was to lay a verbal trap for him so is a Pharisee a person Pharisee was a was a Jewish sect okay and the Pharisees were very legalistic in their interpretation of Mosaic law and so they were sort of they were hypocritical the way they're portrayed in the gospel SS they're hypocritical by the book moralists and part of what and most of their morality was for show they like to pray in public they like to be seen being holy at least that's the criticisms that are levied against them and what they're always trying to do in the gospel accounts is to lay a verbal trap for Christ so that they can expose him as a heretic and kill him right so every single thing they say is a snare of some sort and there's lots of journalists like that Nelly Bulls who wrote an article about me for the New York Times which was a very devastating article in many ways and very Serpentine and and subtle she three years later she wrote another article about what it was like to work for the New York Times when she was working there and the tricks that the journalists played including her and she said that the game was to devastate someone else's reputation in the attempt to boost yours right so you could think about it as a game of comparative moral standing so the journalist's trick is to trick you into saying something that will end your career essentially their social status stands on the shoulders of yours AB absolutely absolutely and so now the the advantage to being in a situation like that is that you have to step if you step extremely carefully and you're fortunate then you evade the traps and then the interview tilts hard in your favor yeah and so the most the interviews that have done me the most good in the long run were the two interviews that were most hostile one by channels 4 Griffin Kathy Kathy Newman Kathy Newman Kathy Griffin and Kathy Kathy at least had a sense of humor another one by Helen Lewis who had no sense of humor at all doesn't seem to have learned anything at all in the interim but I think that I think that one has 80 million views now twice as many as the Kathy Newman interview like it just keeps racking up views and it was because Helen Lewis she has like 50 tricks or 100 tricks Kathy had like four you know and they were pretty blunt and she had a sense of humor about them but Helen Lewis she was just all tricks and lots of them and smart you know and it's quite something to talk to someone who's quite smart and quite educated but all tricks we'll get back to talking to Jordan in one minute but first I need to tell you about 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