Jiang Xueqin Finally Breaks His Silence With PBD | PBD #772

Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. [music] My handshake is better than anything I ever signed. It's right here. >> [music] >> You are a one-on-one? My son's right about you. I don't think I've I've ever said this before. So, my guest today is Yang Xiyu Chuan and I did my best to pronounce the last name. I've been looking forward to uh the conversation with you for quite some time. The day the interview came out with you and uh I believe it was Osage and Crystal, which I thought it was fascinating how a man uh in July of 2024 can predict that Trump's going to win, then he's going to go to war against Iran, and then Iran's going to win, which was your prediction. And I said, "I want to talk to him." And then so, let's get the nasty stuff out of the way cuz I actually want to have a civil conversation with you. I'm actually very curious about why you think the way you think. Uh one, uh at the beginning when we had that, uh our team reached out to you uh to get on the podcast and I think on a podcast you said you thought it was going to be a hit piece interview. What gave you the impression I was going to do a hit piece on you? Well, it was just a timing because the day you got in touch, um there was a coordinated smear campaign against me on Twitter, meaning that there were some influencers who were using the same talking points against me. Um just saying that I just mix stuff um up and uh it seemed very similar, so I was very afraid. Also, at that time I was I was under a lot of stress. So, I didn't want to put myself in a situation where um I would be asked hard questions and I didn't think I would be able to respond properly to um to hard questions. And I I watch your show. I'm a huge fan of yours, Patrick, so I I I know I know you're very good You ask very good questions. I I appreciate that and and that's a fair assessment. And then again, the other part I want to get out of the way on Medhi Hasan when you were on there and professor not professor, we've all seen that viral stuff that's been out. So, if you're comfortable, I'm going to call you Ziyang if that's okay with you as we're going through it. >> That's perfect. That's perfect. Yeah. >> Beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. So, so so I appreciate that. Uh question for you. So, when you said again, I've seen the entire interview and I've seen a lot of your stuff because what I like is seeing what the market is saying and why, right? Some people have certain patterns and your experience is a very interesting one because you went to Yale College, you've lived in Canada, you're now in uh Hong Kong if I'm not mistaken. >> No, no, no, no, Beijing. I'm in Beijing. >> my apologies. You're in Beijing right now. And so, you have a very interesting perspective of these three different worlds and there's a lot of things to talk about. What what uh what analysis or what patterns did you notice for you to say, you know, not the first one that Trump was going to win cuz let's set that one aside, but the one that US is going to go to war with Iran and then we're going to lose. What gave you the analysis or something to say I think that's what's going to happen? Right. So, um in school I teach history and I try to teach world history, the entirety of human history stretching from the cave paintings uh during the Ice Age about 10,000 years ago to today. And while teaching history, I noticed some patterns emerge um in history and the major pattern is how empires tend to decline. And they decline for a particular reason, which is hubris. So, empires believe that they are invincible um and that no one can touch them. So, they engage in activities that are not very strategic. Um for example, the Persians invaded the Greek mainland about 490 BCE with a massive invasion force and they were destroyed by the uh Greeks. And then the Athenian empire, which emerged after the Persian empire, um started to engage in hubris as well. And in 415 BCE during the Peloponnesian War against Sparta, they launched an ill-advised silly invasion of Sicily um and they lost the war because of this uh invasion. And so, a pattern emerges where empires in decline, they tend to engage in risky um wars that they believe they can win easily, but which but which forces them to expand valuable resources on a quagmire. So, the most recent example, of course, was Vietnam. So, it is my belief that um if the United States would go to war with Iran, then it would lose this war because the United States would not have the manufacturing capacity, the logistical network in order to sustain a war in the mountainous terrain of Iran. And so, the big question was, would Iran go to war? Uh sorry, would the United States go to war with Iran? And you look at Trump's first presidency, um there were clear signs that he was uh being heavily influenced by Israel. Uh he moved the uh American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. He promoted the Abraham Accords. >> Mhm. Um he recognized Israel's control over the Golan Heights. Uh he ordered the assassination of General Qassem Soleimani in January 2020. Um and so, if he had a second term, he would have most certainly gone to war against Iran. So, that's how I came to my conclusion. Got it. That's fair. And by the way, there's a very book good book uh book written by Jim Collins where he says uh why the mighty fall. Why the mighty fall. And he goes through five steps, stages of decline, and it validates what you're saying. Number one is hubris born of success. We're great because we're great and we're untouchable, right? Number two, an undisciplined pursuit of more. We all fall fall for this trap when we succeed. Uh let's go do more, faster, bigger, right? Number three is denial of risk and peril, which is we're fine, we have nothing to worry about. Number four is grasping for salvation. This is where we need to save her, we need help. And then number four is capitulation to irrelevance or irrelevance or death, which is over. I'm a Syrian, trust me. We lost our empire many, many years ago and we were very, very powerful. We don't have a country right now. So, you have to always stay a little bit paranoid about what could happen. Now, let me go to the tweet that President Trump uh posted on Truth Social this morning. The world is reacting to it. A lot of people are not happy. A lot of people are curious. Some people are saying this is good. Uh uh but I would say a lot of the people are probably on this is crazy what's about to happen today. J.D. Vance said something this morning that is probably coming to an end, a whole civilization. President Trump said on Truth Social, "A whole civilization will die tonight. Never be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. However, now that we have complete and total regime change where different, smarter, and less radicalized minds prevail, maybe something revolutionary wonderful can happen. Who knows? We will find out tonight one of the most important moments in the long and complex history of the world. 47 years of extortion, corruption, and death will finally end. God bless the great people of Iran." How do you interpret that tweet? Um I think that Trump is trying to go for a maximum leverage in negotiation. Uh but the reality is that the Iranians um will not back down. And American forces already assembled in the Middle East. So, I think that we will see a ground invasion as early as this weekend. And it'll be a multi-vector ground invasion, meaning that uh right now the Americans are attacking Kharg Island, which is where uh Iran will export 90% of its oil from. And so, the Americans intend on seizing Kharg Island and strangling the Iranian economy. There will probably be an attack on Qeshm Island as well in order to wrestle control of the Strait of Hormuz of of Hormuz. There will also be an attack on the Iranian coastline in order to um scout out air defenses. So, I think that we are So, so try to decode this because the average person who reads this, they say, "Who talks like that? You know, what do you mean a whole civilization will die tonight, never bad brought back again?" But if you're somebody that's you you you seem like a pattern recognition type of guy and you kind of watch how people speak, and we know this is how he speaks, right? He He's not the most predictable guy. He's got predictable side, but also unpredictable side. Decode what he's saying here. Is Is this his last chance of negotiation for there not to happen? Is this his last chance of saying I hope somebody says, "Hey, let's go out there and negotiate with them" because Pakistan tried to bring the peace deal on both sides and US declined it and so did Iran. So, if you were to decode this a little bit more on where President's mind's at, what would you say? Well, I would say that Trump um has a history of working in reality TV. He thinks in terms of of television. He asks himself, "What will draw attention? What will look good on TV? What will uh get people very emotional and afraid and anxious?" So, he's spent a lot of time in the World Wrestling um entertainment with Vince McMahon. They had a feud, a television feud. And that's really how you speak in the WWE. You are rhetorical, you are bombastic, and you try to instill fear and rage in uh people. Um um And so, what Trump is trying to do is he's trying to half and half It's really flexing. The other issue that's very worrying right now is that Trump has surrounded himself with advisers who are psychopaths. And they're not actually relaying to relaying to him uh good strategic advice. Uh so for example, um what has happened this weekend was that Trump announced the rescue of a down American pilot. And if you watch the press conference yesterday, um he filed a tremendous success and was very proud of the military for doing the impossible, going deep into enemy lines and rescuing a wounded uh pilot. Um and this is a great tribute to the professionalism and self-sacrifice of the American military, especially the special forces. But on Twitter, on X, on social media, what people are saying is that um this was actually not necessarily a successful pilot rescue operation. It seems that um evidence is emerging that this was a failed seizure, a failed attempt to seize uh Iran's uranium, enriched uranium in the Isfahan uh power plant. And if that is the case, then that was an extremely risky um mission. And um it and it's very consequential because America lost about $300 million worth of planes and equipment in this failed raid. So, my concern is that Trump has surrounded himself with advisors who feed his ego. And Trump himself believes that just by flexing, just by taking a very tough negotiating uh position, he can bully the Iranians into a compromise. Um so I think that um we are in a very precarious situation right now. What what do you think though, worst-case that could happen, the best-case? Walk me through what And by the way, just out of curiosity, would you consider yourself a sup like if we're in July of 2024, would you say you were a supporter of Trump? Like you wanted to see him win. Um so um I'm I'm pretty politically neutral, but in July 2024, I was very confident Trump would win. And I felt that America needed a change. So if I were American and I had the opportunity to vote in November of 2024, I would have voted for Trump over Biden. >> Got it. That's very important That's very important for the audience to know that cuz I don't think you've you've revealed that cuz your your criticism is just what you think's going to happen, but you still would have chosen a Trump over a Biden or a Kamala. Now here's the question that we're we're, you know, everywhere we're we're talking to others, what's the best-case, worst-case, okay, on what could happen here? The best-case scenario is that the Americans and Iranians reach a compromise where they agree to share the Strait of Hormuz. So uh there'll be tolls collected uh because the Iranians want reparations for all the damage that uh the Israelis and Americans caused these uh this past month. Uh but they agree to share with Americans and they agree to collect the tolls in US dollars. And all sanctions are are lifted and peace comes to the Middle East. And there is a possibility. I'm not saying this is impossible but I but it is a very low probability and this is would be the best-case scenario. Best-case scenario, give me the worst-case scenario. The worst-case scenario is that Trump follows through and uh bombs all of Iran's power plants. And the reason why this is the worst-case scenario is that there are certain individuals who are now um trying to protect the um power plants with their bodies. So the Iranian government has called on for the young people >> Yep. of Iran to make the ultimate sacrifice and make a human chain around all power plants in Iran. And so the Americans go in, they blow all the power plants and kill a lot of young people. >> [clears throat] >> Well, in this case, the Iranians are obligated now to destroy the entire economy of the GCC. This would include all oil fields. This would include all the desalination plants. Um this would include all data centers. And this would be the absolute worst-case scenario. What's your likelihood of that happening? Give a percentage. Like if you're going to do a cow sheet type of I think that's a 1%, 2%. What If you were a betting man, what would you say it is? So I would say best-case scenario is 1%. I would say worst-case scenario is 10% and I would say a limited ground uh incursion would be about 40%. Okay, so you have a higher likelihood of us hitting the power plants than the best-case scenario happening. 10 times more likely the worst-case than the best-case. How does Trump cuz your your prediction was Trump wins, Trump goes to war with Iran and America loses. Define losing because some people could say Afghanistan was a loss, right? The way Biden left, you know, we left uh whatever $83 billion it cost us, we left $7 billion of equipment there whatever the numbers are. Uh Define loss. What does loss mean to you? Right. So loss means that America is forced to retreat from the Middle East. And this will enable Iran to um control the GCC countries. Because remember, the GCC is very important for the petrodollar system where the GCC sells its oil in US dollars and then it recycles this back into American economy primarily by investing in uh AI. So a lot of these AI data data centers are financed by investment from these GCC sovereign wealth funds. And And so if America were to retreat from the Middle East, uh they would lose the petrodollar, the American economy would collapse, uh and you would you would have um a civil war emerge in America. A civil war emerge in America. Okay. Uh interesting. Do Do you think Do you think uh the president has a team of rivals right now that are trying to prevent that from happening? So I think that the you you and I both know the the the president is a what do you think asking everybody. What are your thoughts? What do you think? What do you think? Including his enemies. I mean this guy called Elizabeth Warren and said, "Hey, what do you think about us doing this to the credit card companies?" And Elizabeth Warren's like, he just called I was confused when he called me. You know, President Trump we're bringing Momdani in and say, "Hey, don't worry about it. Be critical. Say whatever you want to say about me, I'm okay with that. You don't need to explain yourself." So he talks to everybody. Do Do you think he is fully uh um aware of the risks of what could happen if he goes aggressive here? Do you think he's fully aware aware of it? I think unfortunately he's surrounded himself with psychopaths, right? So uh President Trump said about a couple a couple weeks ago, um when people asked him, "Why are we in this war?" Because he has never really articulated a reason or objective for this war. And he basically said that, "Well, Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon, Peter Hoekstra, Marco Rubio talked me into it." So what he's done is he's basically elevated the um hawkish elements of his administration and basically um ostracized or uh put on the sidelines the more um um cautionary, conservative elements of his administration who include J.D. Vance and Tulsi Gabbard. So I think I believe that J.D. Vance has been uh very vocal in trying to negotiate a peace treaty as soon as possible and now he's in Hungary, far away from the action. And there's rumors of Tulsi Gabbard being removed from the administration at some point. Yeah, Tulsi and I think there was another name as well. Tulsi and Howard Lutnick were the two names that were brought up yesterday that may be next on the, you know, chopping blocks that he may move on from. Going back to it, Iran, IRGC, your opinion on them, you hear the phrase, you know, they're the biggest producers of terrorism or there's many different phrases people use against them. How dangerous do you think Iran is led by the current regime to the world, especially to the Gulf states, the six GCC countries you're talking about? But how dangerous you think they are to society if this regime stays in power? So I think there are many factions within Iran that are very concerned that if this war continues, the revolutionary um guards will be able to control all of Iranian society. Um so right now they control about 50% of the economy, but if this war continues, they might control 100% of the Iranian economy. And this would be disastrous for the uh for other um factions within Iran who want a progressive secular society. And remember that this these people have a have a grudge against America. So in 1979, uh students in Iran overran the American embassy and took people hostage. People don't know this, but those students are now running the revolutionary guard guard corp. Also, their leader Qassem Soleimani was killed by the Americans in January 2020 and they they wanted revenge against Americans for the longest time. And now it's a perfect opportunity. So there's a there's a lot of blood um bad blood between the Americans and the revolutionary guard corp. And the revolutionary guard corp sees this as an opportunity to destroy the Americans once and for all even at the cost of their own society. So if you That's interesting. So if you know Have you ever watched The Godfather, the the Godfather series? I'm assuming you have. >> Okay. So if if you know this and you know that if Iran hated us a year ago, if Iran hated us eight years ago when we killed Qassem Soleimani, how much more do they hate us today after taking out the 50-plus leaders that we have in the last, you know, four, five weeks, whatever the how many days are we at? 43, 44 days? I don't know the exact days. How much more do they hate us? So don't you think from a purely a power play standpoint. If you went this far and you killed everyone and you back off, whether you support this happening or not, we're already in it. Of course, we could have had the debate 45 days ago, don't do it. But now we're in it. If you're this far and you get out, didn't you just make Iran even angrier to want to retaliate to US and the rest of the world? Yeah, I mean, I I think it's very hard to see a off-ramp here because the Iranians will not give up. Even if Americans were to leave, uh the Iranians would assert control over the GCC, right? And that's why Saudi Arabia and uh the uh UAE are pressing Trump to finish this war. Right? So, what So, it's easy to start a war, but once you start the war >> do you think's the right move? What What do you You're an adviser. You You've said a lot of crazy things, which is which is very interesting and I I like to hear what you're saying because we you know, when everybody's saying the same exact thing, you're not learning leaks. You need to hear and what other people are saying. What do you think's the right move to do here right now for both US and the Gulf states? If I were the Gulf states and uh and I were if I were the United States, my advice would be to organize a conference for four countries, the United States, Russia, Iran, and China. Do not include the Europeans, do not include uh the GCC, do not include Israel. Just these four countries, United States, uh Russia, China, and Iran. And come to a collective agreement where these four nations agree on a new trade relationship based on the US dollar. Having all four nations are interested in maintaining the US dollar as a global reserve currency because no one else wants that uh global reserve currency status. Um >> Why would Why would you Why would you do that if the if those three all hate you and if you're in a meeting with them, China's not necessarily an ally, Russia's not necessarily an ally, Iran's not necessarily an ally, why would I hold this meeting? No one is three against one. Trump would never host a meeting like that knowing the leverage isn't on him. Right? And And so, he he's got the support of Gulf states. They're on his side. He knows he doesn't with China. He knows he doesn't with Russia. He knows he definitely doesn't with Iran. Why host a meeting like that? I I don't see the logic behind it. Feel free to push back. I don't see the logic behind that. Well, I mean, the reality is that um America is going to have a hard time holding onto its empire. And Trump has said this many times. Uh because America is the world reserve currency, because America is responsible for protecting the sea lanes, then America's basically screwed by the world, especially the Europeans who don't have to pay for their own own defense, um and who can use uh their savings to fund their lavish welfare and pension system. Right? So, it's not in the best interest of America to maintain its empire. If you're an average American, you're paying way too much um for this empire. So, why don't we just retreat back into the Western Hemisphere? The Western Western Hemisphere is completely self-sufficient. It has Canada, Mexico. Hey, if I'm Trump, I'm like, you know what? Screw Iran, screw Ukraine. I don't need these places. I'm going to take over Canada and Mexico because Mexico has a surplus of labor, cheap labor, and Canada has infinite resources. >> A lot of people agree with you on that. A lot of people agree with you, but but here's the problem though, Jean. The problem is we're in in too deep right now. So, this is a good conversation 45 days ago. I'm saying to you we just killed the top 50 leaders. The These are They're not going to They're They're a martyr type community. Like, you know how you ever go against the company and they're very litigious and you want to play nice and they're like, "No, we're litigious. Sue, sue, sue, sue, sue, sue." You have to fight fight, you know, fire with fire. So, I'm talking today. If you go in the room and say, "Okay, let's play nice with Iran." They're like, "You're out of your flipping mind." And if we say, "Hey, Iran says we want to play nice." You're You're out of your And we know Russia and China are going to side with them. I I don't I don't know if that strategy works today. I do know Do you think Do you think Trump has a ton of leverage over NATO right now? Do you think the leverage he has over NATO? Look, you can make the argument that Trump is not just at war with Iran, Trump is ultimately at war with the globalists, right? The City of London, Wall Street, global finance. Yes. Right? So, NATO represents the globalists and Trump hates NATO and NATO hates Trump. Um I think Trump has been trying very hard to come to an agreement with Putin for the longest time. They had that Anchorage, Alaska meeting. And what happened afterwards? Well, NATO um and Ukraine are continuing to um attack uh Russia. There There was that drone assassination attempt against Putin. >> Yep. Um the uh Ukrainians have blown up 40% of uh Russia's oil exports just most recently. So, there's a lot of bad blood between um Ukraine and Russia, between the globalists and and and and and and Trump. So, if you're Trump, right? Who's your enemy? Is your enemy Iran, Russia, and China, or is your enemy NATO and the globalists? Well, it it He He's He's constantly complimentary of his relationship with G and Putin. If you ever notice when he speaks, it's like, you know, "I'd rather be friendly than not friendly. We had a good talk. We're going to go visit back in May. We have some scheduling conflict. We're going to go back. Had a good talk with Putin. Had a good talk with G." So, he he knows how to speak to these power players and have them under control. It looks like, you know, that night when he was giving a speech, the 23-minute speech which 9:00 p.m. I I think this was last week. I thought he was going to say something radical like we're leaving NATO. I thought he was going to say the Gulf has announced they're funding the war. I thought he was going to make some kind of a big announcement like that. I don't think there was any big announcement there, but to me, if you had an easier way to get rid of IRGC, question for you. Is the world a better place with IRGC no longer being in power and it being replaced by some sort of a democracy? Look, I completely agree with you in that the great fear is that Iran becomes much more extremist and much more theoretical uh theocratic than it is now. Um the Ayatollah Khamenei uh was considered a pretty moderate individual. His son is not considered uh moderate and also he's considered incompetent. And so, the people around him will be able to control him. We We can expect like the most hardline elements uh uh uh in Iranian society will emerge triumphant from this war if this war continues. So, my Again, my best advice is for these four countries to to to sit down together. See, Putin and Trump will agree uh to pressure together Iran to come to a settlement. Um Listen, at the end of the day, Russia is supporting Iran. If Russia was was support Sorry, if Russia were were to pull its support, it'd be very hard for Iran to continue this war effort. >> That I agree >> Putin has a lot a lot of leverage over Iran, right? And that's why I'm saying you need these four countries to sit down together to come to an agreement. If If Trump were trying to negotiate with Iran directly, you'd get nowhere. But if China and Russia entered the negotiations and they agreed on a mutually beneficial uh global trade relationship, then I I think you you can get somewhere. And Trump would would would I think excel in such negotiations. Yeah, it maybe the meeting is a better meeting if it's Russia, China, and US and not involving Iran on phase one. Just to kind of get the pulse there because the leverage You're right cuz Russia's they kind of help each other, right? Because they were selling the cheap drones, the Shaheeds. I don't know what they're called, Shaheeds or Shaheeds to uh uh uh to uh Russia and Russia was buying it from them back and forth cuz Iran makes some of the best small drones similar to uh Ukraine. Uh Shaheed, yeah. The drones that they make, the loud ones that uh uh very effective in a small in a war like this. Okay, so that That's interesting to see what happens there. But you do agree that the level of extremism that IRGC has, if there is a way to get rid of that regime and be more of a democracy, the world would be a safer place with them being gone. You would agree with that. Yeah, no. I I would agree that it is in it that it is not good It is not in the best interest of Iran to be to to be a theocracy. I think these are Persian people. These are the the most um you know, enlightened um people with a long history. They want to be Persian. And so, I think that what hope what emerges after this war is a more vibrant Persian nationalism as a counter to Shia theocracy. So, you would want to see the religious the you know, Ruhollah, the Khameneis, all that to be gone and it's just ran by government, not a theocratic type of a government. You'd like to see that happen. Do Do you Do you think there's a safe landing where we can get there? Do you think there's a possibility where we can get there? Um given what's happened so far, um and given that Trump seems intent on attacking Iran's critical civilian infrastructure, yep. I think this is all This is only This will only embolden and empower uh the most extreme religious elements in uh Iranian society because these are the ones who are willing to die um for what they believe in. Yeah, I live with them. I lived there for almost 11 years. So, I I witnessed what they're like and the level of radicalism that they have is is a whole different story. Let Let me ask you a couple other questions about China with uh since you're in uh Beijing right now. You There's There's this uh data that's going around when China went to the one-child policy that maybe the population isn't as big as they claim it is. I'm sure you've seen this where the numbers are going around with the oh, you know, we're at 1.4 billion. We're at 1.3 billion. And then it's like, "No, not necessarily. You may be at 6 7" One lady said 400 million. Mathematically, it's impossible to be at 400 million, but some of the numbers could say 8 900 million. What is your guestimation of what China's population is today? Um look, I live in Beijing. I've visited China. There are a lot of people in China. I mean, just ride the subway. It's packed every single day. Just walk the streets. They're packed all the time. You know, and I travel a lot. There are a lot of people in China. I can't tell you what the exact statistics are. There's probably some overcounting because local governments tend to lie because because obviously like the more you people people you say you have, the more government subsidies you can get. So, I imagine there's some population inflation. But um I believe it's still over a billion people. The issue in China is not actually population count. The The problem in China is twofold in that you have a rapidly aging population. You have young people who refuse to have kids. Um I think it's it's possible in 5 years time China has the lowest fertility rate in the world. Right now, it's South Korea at 0.8. China's about one. But I I can easily see um China overtaking South Korea in like 5 years time. So, that's the real issue China is facing China. Um China still has a lot of people, but the um but the the demographic curve is going to be a huge issue for China, especially as the population ages. What Why would they lie How does it benefit them to lie about the population? Is there a benefit like if cuz why would they Who cares if you're at 800 million or if you had 1.3 billion? Right. The issue in China is that um local governments tend to lie all the time because a lot of their promotions depend on the performance locally, right? So, it's in their best interest to inflate just not population statistics, but also economic performance. So, I So, um so the >> Does Xi incentivize local governments to lie? Is it Is it more, "Hey, we got to save face for the world. The world cannot see that we're a declining country?" What is What is the Who Who's incentivizing who to lie with the data? Right. So, um China doesn't really care much about the world, but China is an enclosed insular bureaucracy. So, the local governments are lying in order to get more funding from the central government, right? So, obviously if you have more children, uh you can get more health care subsidies, more education subsidies from the federal government, especially if you're a poor province. So, that's the logic of of lying. And it's This happens This is a very common practice in China where if you are in Beijing, you just have to assume that um all the information you're getting from local areas are just inflated information. Got it. Okay. But But you don't think there's a reason there's a a good or bad thing for the world if all of a sudden we got the right data that the population isn't 1.3 billion. It's really only 8 900 billion million. Would that be an embarrassing moment for China? Would Xi see that as an embarrassing moment or no, it wouldn't be a big deal? Um you know, there is concern in the central government um and and the reason why is that um China is very much a metric base society. It's very utilitarian, right? So, it's very focused on economic growth. And what drives economic growth is population growth. So, there's a real concern that as the population declines over time, China's economy will stagnate. But personally, I think that this may be in the long term a good thing for China because having over 1 billion people is not necessarily a good thing. What it What it has led to ultimately is massive exploitation over the people because when you have like too many people, it's like free energy, right? So, all you have to do is basically um exploit them, and that's what runs your economy. But because you're exploiting people, that hampers innovation. Um that hampers local development. So, I think if China were to face a population crisis, this in the long term would be good for China's society and civilization in the long term. Yeah, and you can talk about the Tang Ping movement, right? The The lying flat, I think they call it where uh young kids are kind of like screwed. There's no reason for me to give my best. So, I'm going to be a minimalist. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. How are they countering that where kids are seeing there's no reason for me to do the 996, right? Work 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. 6 days a week. I don't want to do it. Who cares about this? How are they fighting against that? So, in the 1980s, uh China was embarking on economic reform. And there was a real concern among party elders elders like people who who um um went through the revolution that brought the Communist Party into power in 1949. There's a real concern that capitalism would degrade and pollute civilization Chinese civilization. They called it spiritual pollution in 1980s. And this was a huge concern in 1980s. And it turns out this was correct because uh free market reform without political reform has led to a very utilitarian society where it's basically get rich or die trying. And so, what what what What has What this has led to is massive corruption, massive inequality, massive debt in China. And this has led to tremendous apathy among young people because there's actually no chance for young person to get ahead. If you started a business, if you got if you borrowed a million dollars and you started a business, I guarantee you no matter what business you started, you lose all your money because um it's a rigged game. And that's why people are opting out. And because of spiritual pollution, because there's really no ideology, um there's really no um sense of nationalism in China. There's really no more than motivated factor for people in China, right? Before it was it was just like make money. But and that that's the point of existence. Uh be before the Cultural Revolution, it was about serving the people, contributing to the motherland, building a socialist paradise. We You and I can disagree about uh that, but but regardless, during the Cultural Revolution, people were motivated to make the self-sacrifice necessary in order to build a better China. And now, people are extremely utilitarian. They're indifferent. They're apathetic. And that's why they're like, "You know what? Screw this. I'm just I'm just going to stay home all day." Yeah, and and and who pays them though? Who pays them? Like is there entitlement programs? Are they able to stay home all day? What is the system for me to stay home all day? A very common practice is for young people to go work as nurses or maids for their retired parents. Their parents collect a very nice pension. China's very frugal. You know, during COVID when everyone was locked in their apartments for 4 years, they ate they ate rice and vegetables all those 4 years. So, Chinese have a lot of money saved up. They They have saved up up 40% of their income, which is the highest in the world. So, I mean, Chinese can can just get by on like white rice for the next 40 years. Yeah, and and and the the idea is they don't they don't invest much in the stock market. They don't believe in the market, but they do believe in the real estate side even though the real estate has taken a bit of a hit. But you've always learned the discipline the frugality part of folks from China. Let me ask another question in regards to, you know, the the lying flat I'm going more on the business side with Jack Ma. You know, in America, everybody knows Jack Ma. They think about Jack Ma. They think about his sit-down with Elon Musk, the good exchange that they had where Elon kind of like, "You're out of your mind. AI's going to take over." Jack's like, "No, it's not." And then Jack made some comments. I'm sure you remember when he gave a Not not that strong of a critical comment, but you know, the the probably the CCP didn't like it. And then all of a sudden, Jack Ma disappeared. Here's a guy at the time. I don't know what he was worth. 50 billion dollars, give or take. He's a very wealthy man. He disappeared. What is your impression of what happened to him because no one's talking about Jack Ma anymore? Right. So, when President Xi came into power, there's a real concern among Chinese economists that the economy was overheated. Meaning, to put it very bluntly, there was too much corruption in the system. There was too much fraud. There was too much speculation. And so, it was really about how to make a more productive economy. So, there were too many Chinese people who was were engaged in real estate speculation. And that's what was causing the real estate bubble. And you can't really have that as an economy. You want people to actually work hard, start a business, and save their their money, and make proper investments. But everyone was just pouring their money into real estate scams. Um these entrepreneurs, these billionaires, were basically creating creating financial Ponzi schemes. And so, there's a there's a commitment among Chinese regulators to crack down. And this is what led to the crackdown on Jack Ma because Jack Ma pushed back against uh central authority. And you can't do that in China. You can't question the authority of the government. And Jack Ma, you know, he is he was the richest man in China. Uh he was the most popular man in China at that time. And he thought that he could change the system. And he found out that that uh unfortunately, you cannot. >> [snorts] >> Got it. And what is the difference between him and the other fellow, Jimmy? I'm trying to get his name right his last name right. Is it Jimmy Lai? Jimmy Lai Do you remember the Jimmy Lai story? Right. So, these are two different societies. These are two different local systems. Hong Kong is considered like a quasi sovereign part of China. Is that kind of like the equivalent of like a Puerto Rico in America? Exactly. Exactly. And I mean, Jimmy Lai is an outspoken um critic of the Communist Party. He he is very pro-democracy. But, he probably pushed too many buttons. He probably probably crossed too many red lines. So, I think what led to his arrest was the fact that you had protests in Hong Kong about a few years ago that called for democracy. And this was a red line for the Communist Party in Beijing. And so, they ordered a crackdown. And vocal opponents of the government were arrested or forced to exile. Jimmy Lai had the option of seeking exile, but he believes in democracy and so, he chose to be a martyr. And that's And And so, now he's in prison. Who Who is he Who is he in China to America? Like, is there a comparison you can Cuz this is a guy that was a billionaire. In 2020, he was pushing democracy. Then, I think China passed a law that, you know, there are certain things you couldn't do in June of 2020, June of 2021. I could get some of the dates off. I think it's June 30th of 2020 that once the new national security law was passed, 11 days later, he got convicted and then he went away for 20 years. And this is a guy that owned Apple Daily newspaper brand that played a big role in the 2014 umbrella movement, the 2019 Hong Kong protest. So, pretty heavy guy. But, to the average person in America that doesn't know who Jimmy Lai is, how would you say Jimmy Lai is to China what XYZ is to America? Well, I mean, America has freedom of speech. America respects its business people. America respects its entrepreneurs. So, it's very hard for me to find a analogy who is American. But, you do have Russian people uh you know, these billionaires who ran foul of the Putin regime and so, they were put in prison and then they died in prison. Um so, that's what happens in the societies Russia and China when you try to defy the government. There is a red line in our society and that is you cannot challenge the ultimate authority of the government. How much interest do you think there is in China of wanting to be a democracy? In Cuz you know, you guys got you're a one party, right? One political party. You don't have a lot of choice. This is what we're doing. It's just say, "Who do you want? We're not changing this. It's not like you have a lot of say." How much interest do you think there actually is in saying, "You know what? Why not? Why Why don't Why don't we go try to have a democracy in China?" So, I've been in China for 25 years and I can tell you that there is almost no interest in democracy in China because for democracy to exist in China, for democracy to happen in China, you would need to have people who respect it, human rights, individual liberty, who had empathy, who believed in rule of law. And the reality is that in China, this isn't set up so that so that um you the the ultimate objective is to become a bureaucrat. That's what all Chinese people aspire to. >> Or aspirationally, meaning coming up, you want to you want to be a bureaucrat one day. Exactly. Um and the higher you climb the bureaucracy, the the better because traditionally, China's an empire. And the way you survive survive an empire is to become a civil servant. And that's why Chinese work so hard in school because they want to pass a civil civil service examination to become a bureaucrat so then they can provide guarantees and protection to the family. How long did you live in Canada and the US? So, um I was born in China. Okay. And then, when I was 6, we immigrated to Toronto, Canada where I grew up. I went to high school there. Um I did 5 years of high school because, you know, in Canada, we're we're slower than Americans. Uh you guys can finish high school in 4 years. We need about 5 years. And then after After that, I went to Yale for college. I spent 4 years there and then I came to China and I've been in China ever since ever since 1999. So, how many years did you live in US? Well, 4 years. Okay. So, if you were to say the dream for a kid in Canada, when he grows up, he wants to be A. The dream for an American, when he grows up, he wants to be A. And you already said it with China, right? When you grow up, you want to be a bureaucrat. What What is your impression of what China is, Canada is, US is? Well, in Canada, everyone wants to be a hockey player. When I grew up, I didn't play hockey, but I wanted to be a hockey player. I wanted to play for the NHL. Yep. I mean, like I I could I can't even skate, okay? But, I wanted to be be a hockey player. And um in America, I think you want to be an entrepreneur. You You want to start your own business, uh stand on your own two feet, and you want to make it and be independent. You want to be free of government control. >> Yeah. Um and you want to be able to speak your mind. Uh and in China, as I mentioned, you want you want to be a bureaucrat. What What do you like about each country because you chose to go back to China. And if I'm not mistaken, what what happened with the PBS documentary that you tried to do that they kicked you out and then eventually they let you come back in in '03. I don't know what the timeline is there. You know, because you have a choice to be in Canada, US, or China, but you chose China. So, maybe walk through what happened when they kicked you out and then why you chose to go back to China. So, I came to China to teach English and I eventually I became interested in journalism and I was hired to do freelance journalism. I got a contract from PBS to do a documentary on China's WTO and WTO entry and this required filming a worker protest. And there were quite a few worker protests during this time because there was a restructuring of state-owned enterprises. And while I was filming a worker protest, I was arrested by plainclothes policemen. I was put into a car and then I was put I was sent to a hotel for 48 hours where they interrogated me. Um And I didn't get much sleep. I signed I ultimately signed a confession that I was working in China illegally as a journalist. So, in to work in China as a journalist, you need a journalist visa and I was not I didn't have a journalist visa and so, they deported me, but they didn't charge me so, I could at any time return to China. And so, eventually I chose to return to China because um at that time, I had Chinese language skills. I had some journalistic journalism experience. And so, there were more opportunities for me in China than there were in the United States and in Canada. So, the question is, what do I see the political strings of each country of each country are? Well, Canada, um you know, it's it's a very stable society. People are there are very nice, perhaps too nice. It's almost like they're on valium um every single day. [laughter] Um you've been in Canada so, >> many times. Yeah, right. You know, Americans are the most creative people in the world. Very open, very generous. If you have If you are If you want to work hard and you have talent, you will make it in America. And that's not true for anywhere else in the world. It You know, it doesn't matter how much talent you have in China. No one cares. It all All that matters is how powerful your family is. And that's true for most of the world. It's not just unique to China. I would say for most of the world, what matters is family connections, family background as opposed to hard work and talent. So, I I deeply admire Americans um and I have tremendous respect for American society and culture. Um China at that time was um an open canvas. It seemed promising. It's It It It at that time could go in many different directions. And so, I was young and I was really curious and I felt that I could learn a lot more in China and experience much more interesting opportunities in China than I could anywhere else. Really? So, cuz you you're very curious. You're very talented. Uh you know, you ask you're very good communicator. I mean, these are all great qualities to be here in the States. Why Why choose to use those talents in China? So, my So, I was in the United States for college and when I was at Yale, I found that there wasn't as much openness and freedom to curiosity as I imagined. So, Americans are extremely entrepreneurial. They're very good at business. But, I didn't feel as though um America was going to change a lot in 10, 20 years' time. And I felt that I wanted to experience a society in flux, in change. I felt America was much too stable. Um you know, I could have easily gone gone to law school and become a very wealthy lawyer or maybe even gone and become a professor, right? There were lots of these career paths open to me because I had a Yale education. But, I knew exactly what what what I would be like in 50 years' time or 60 years' time because, you know, I looked at my professors and I I know how they lived their lives. I have friends who are lawyers and I know how they live their lives. And I wanted to experience a world in which um the world was unpredictable. And that was China. You know, I I I Like, when I came to China, I I knew China was going to change a lot in 20, 30 years' time. And so, during this time of massive change, this would offer opportunities to do things I couldn't really do in the United States. Got it. So, that was the opportunity to go over there and the And by the way, your content that you create in China that you upload on YouTube, do you also upload it on the channels in China or is it mainly for the content in US? So, I have a very strict policy of not engaging in Chinese social media. I do not have a Chinese social media account. Um Chinese reporters have reached out to have interviews with me and I've said no. Chinese people have reached out to me and said they want to work with me. I've said no. And the reason why is that um I understand that Chinese >> reached out, who reached out to you? Like the bigger platforms or media companies or all the way from the top the CCP? Well, Tsinghua professors. Professors at the very elite universities in China, Tsinghua University. Um and I don't want to talk to these people because they represent the government. And I don't want want to want to put myself in a position where I'm compromised and have to become a propaganda a mouthpiece for the government. And so, uh my main priority is to maintain my independence, my freedom because I operate in a gray zone in China where I'm not a Chinese citizen, so I'm not bound by uh Chinese surveillance laws. Um and I make content for Westerners and so I have a lot more freedom uh to comment about Western society than say if I were in Western society, right? So, so Canada has become a very authoritarian society. Um they I I if if I said certain things that I said uh in Canada, then it's possible that I get visited by the police. Um and that might be true for Europe. Uh it wouldn't be true for the United States, but there would be some other issues as well. Yeah, that's interesting. So, have they ever knocked on your door and said, "Hey, you're crossing a line, Jing. Pump the brakes. That's too much. Relax." Or no, they leave you alone. Nobody's knocked on your door. I work at a school. I'm I'm employed by the school. They have legal responsibility for me. And there was one time when I wrote wrote a subject essay that mentioned China and I was given a call by the school leadership and told to pull it down. Um I'm not at liberty to tell you what the content was, but but I will tell you that I'm being monitored here very heavily. I I can I can only imagine that. I can only imagine that. Do you feel safe for yourself in China long-term? I do not plan on staying in China long-term. >> Okay. I figured. I'll tell you why. Because right now China's very interested in self-power and right now I have a lot of self-power. I have a lot of influence overseas. And so, they want to co-opt me. They want to compromise me and turn me into a weapon that they can use uh to promote their agenda overseas. I I don't want to do that. The longer you stay, the more people are going to think that you are somebody that's representing the CCP, that you're working with the government. Just so cuz I know you The criticism the moment you went viral, I'm like, "Okay, let's see what happens the next 2 weeks cuz they're going to come for his throat." It happens every single time and and then we all move on with the filtering process. You're not really a professor. Are you a spy? Are you tied to the government? Are you tied to this? If all of a sudden you leave and you go to Singapore or Dubai or different place or maybe maybe not even Dubai, but a couple you know a couple places they can go to uh to speak, then that means you truly are a citizen of the world, that your concern is, "Here's what I think about. Here's what I want to talk about. Do whatever you want with this information." And I'm sure your AdSense is picking up anyways with YouTube, which allows you to drop your job as a teacher to go live in That's the beautiful thing about YouTube. So, you kind of have a little bit of freedom to be able to do that. And I'd love to see you continue doing this because you know, your your Again, you say some crazy things, but that's good. We need to kind of think about some of the crazy things that can possibly happen and then let's hash it out. Let's debate it out and let's see what what comes out of it. Another question for you. Um I love what you said. In Canada, everybody wants to be a hockey player. In US, people want to be an entrepreneur. In In China, they want to be a bureaucrat. What do you think What do you think kids want to be in Iran? What what what do you What's the dream in Iran today under this regime? I know you're not there. I'm not there, but what do you think? Well, I I mean, I've never been to Iran. Uh it depends where you are in Iran, right? So, the cities are very different from the rural areas. Um but I think that given um what's been happening in this war, I think there are a lot of young children who fantasize about about fantasize um and they grow up and they want to fight the Americans. So, so I feel as though this war um given the fact on the first day the Americans struck a a um school in southern Iran that killed 168 schoolgirls and they killed an 86-year-old 86-year-old man with prostate cancer, um I I I I feel as though there are a lot of young people who want to go to war with with America right now. Yeah, and I agree. I agree with where where you know, the I want to be a hero one day and you're seeing in some videos with mothers celebrating that their sons gave their lives. It's like, "My son's a hero. He did the right thing." It's a very different way of thinking about uh uh what what what happens there, you know, very different way of thinking about. Let's talk about COVID. Um you know, COVID is the time when I started talking about politics. Up until COVID, I had no desire to talk politics. All I did was business and I would do my whiteboards. You know how you do your whiteboards? I would do my whiteboards except uh nowadays we can do with the nice little markers where our hands don't get dirty. I did it the ghetto ways back in the days where I would get paint all over my suit and ties and it was a hot mess. But uh during COVID, you know, story comes out. It came out from the Wuhan lab. No, it's came from the wet market. No, China had nothing to do with it. Yes, China had to do with Nancy Pelosi goes to Chinatown. Stop being so racist. Trump's like, "What are you talking about?" It came from China. What does China say about COVID with their position? Because when the state media's telling their stories and I'm living in Iran and they're saying, "Let me tell you US is the devil." And US is this and death upon America and all this other stuff. And you know, China's a pretty controlled environment kind of like what you talked about earlier. How does China state media control the narrative of what really happened with COVID? Okay. So, unfortunately, COVID has been has been memory holed in China. So, no one talks about it. Um it was a traumatic uh 3 or 4 years for Chinese society. And people have just have basically just forgotten about these matters. No one even mentions COVID anymore. People still get COVID, um but no one mentions COVID anymore. So, all this has been memory holed and people would would rather just move on with their lives because there's actually no point in talking about it. But the Chinese government have said on multiple occasions that COVID started off as a American bioweapon. And so, that's what the what what the Chinese believe that they that COVID was an American bioweapon. It was leaked into China in order to uh hurt Chinese society. And there are a lot of elite And there are a lot of elite Chinese who who I talk to who believe the same thing. So, they believe it was a bioweapon released from US in China. That's the narrative they say. And is it That's what they believe. And is it tied to Fauci? The gain gain of function? Is that kind of how they spin it or what's what's their method of ta- can you know, connecting the dots? So, I'll tell you what I believe happened. Well, okay? And um so, I believe that this was American bioweapon funded by 25 Fauci. Uh Obama had put a uh moratorium, a ban on gain of function research. And so, um Fauci um subcontracted gain of function research to the Wuhan lab, which was actually a military installation. And um I don't know if it was accidental or deliberate, but it got it got released into Wuhan. And when it did get released into Wuhan, the early reporting was that this was killing a lot of people. It was actually burning your lungs. It was like a furnace. Your lungs became a furnace. So, it's pretty deadly. And um they locked down the city too late and about a third of people like, you know, escaped into other cities as well as boarded flights for Europe. And this spread around the world very quickly. Um so, I think that's what happened. Uh but Chinese what what they believe is that this was an American bioweapon designed to hurt the Chinese economy. And and that's the story. Um but they downplay China's role in it. Yeah, they downplay China's role in it. And culturally is is China a culture where if the government says says that, don't question it. You don't have to take it right to question it. Just buy it. This is what happened. Don't come back and question us because of freedom of speech. Chinese people know where the political red lines are. Um and they know how the political winds are shifting. Um and so, there's really no questioning of the government. >> [laughter] >> What What an advantage for the enemy to be able to see in America where in America we bash each other and we're going at it and every you know, everything's being exposed from congressmen on the left and the right and nobody in the world can see what's going on with China because no one can bring up anything. God forbid if you do, something could happen. I I disagree. I I think like if you want >> if you want a healthy, creative, resilient society, you need free and open debate. The The best thing about America is the First Amendment. The best thing is that anyone can criticize the president. And there's rigorous debate right now over this Iran war. This allows for America to pivot and to be resilient uh and to discover its weaknesses and to improve on its weakness on on on on its vulnerabilities. China has been China for the past 5,000 years. This is not a good thing. Yeah, no, I'm with you. It It is if if a person that thinks they can have that kind of a chokehold on their people for a long time and see the enemy as debating each other, a lot of information comes in, but if So, social media apps are not available in China, right? There is no Facebook, there is no YouTube, there is no X, there is no nothing like that is available in China. There are Chinese equivalents, but yes, these western social media platforms are banned in China. Are there any Are there any like if I if you and I go to a dinner, and you know, if you live in California at the peak of COVID, you have to be very careful if you were a Trump supporter. A lot of people would say, but there were parties you would go to to houses like, "Hey, man, me, too. Hey, me, too." But God, if you wore MAGA hat in 2017 in California, go walk through the mall and see what happens to you. It's a very different climate than today, right? Are there small pockets of people in China, small communities that are growing, that they're criticizing the government, or none of that exist? None of that exists in China. Okay. All right, and I don't think you agree with that. I think >> Well, well, well, well, no. I mean, the reason is that China has developed an AI surveillance state that is the most advanced in the world, right? So, China has digital ID and digital currency. >> Right. And so, with that, everything you do online can be monitored, right? And so, when when you use your mobile phone, it's a it's a like all your app is on your phone. So, the government knows exactly where you go, Yeah. what you buy, who you have with. And from that, from this from this data, Yep. they can they can do a micro analysis of of your political leanings, and then influence you in a certain way. So, China has developed the first AI surveillance state. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah, you know, you just reminded me of a story uh when I when I I made a handful of videos criticizing China, and I brought a General Spalding who went very hardcore at China, got millions of views all over the place, and he was revealing some things about China. So, what it was about a 6 months of going to after China pretty hardcore. One day, I get an email from a PR from saying somebody from China wants to invite you to an event. It's a It's a charity event. I said, "Okay. So, let's do the Zoom." So, I got on the call. It's me, Mario, another guy named Gerard, and we get on the Zoom, and we said, "So, what's the outcome?" They want to pay you $600,000. I have this email till today, documented. They want to pay you $600,000, but they want you to give a $300,000 check to XYZ charity. So, you get to keep $300,000, but you give the $300,000 to the charity. We'll take care of your hotel, food, flight, everything. Don't worry about it, and we'll give you $300,000. Of course, my answer was no. But why would China do something like that? Why would the Why would they want somebody like me to come in to get $600,000 and donate $300,000 to charity? Right. So, the Chinese approach to soft power is co-opting elites, right? So, in China, the elites have all the power, the people have no power. They assume that's just how the power work. That's how the world works. So, um if I'm going to spend money on soft power, that basically means I bribe influential media elite, such as yourself, such as Tom Friedman. Um so, Tom Friedman has visited China quite a lot, and he said very nice things about about China. And quite honestly, this works, right? Because if you come over in China, they treat you very well. It's great food, the people are very friendly. Um they show you the best aspects of China, and you you you leave with a very good feeling in your heart. So, Chinese are very good at co-opting individuals, and they only focus on on individuals who have tremendous influence in in in the world, such as yourself. It's a brilliant strategy if you're able to succeed with it, and people can come back and being complimentary about it, you know, that's that's what you want, especially an enemy state. Last question here. Would Muslims and and how what what what what is the position that Xi Jinping or the Chinese government has towards Muslims, the religion of Islam? Of course, on the outside, they have a lot of relationships with a lot of people. But on the inside, we read about the Uyghurs. We read about the treatment of what's happening Muslims. We read about how some stories of what they think that religion is all about. What is the sect of Muslims in China, and what is the relationship with Islam and the Chinese government? Right. So, um there were some prominent terrorist attacks where Muslims Uyghurs um launched knife attacks in train stations, killing dozens of Chinese. And um a lot of these Uyghurs were came back came back from wars in the Middle East. So, these were radicalized people. And there was real fear among the Chinese government that um this this radicalization had penetrated um Muslim society. So, there was a massive crackdown um across Muslim society. But this goes into a much larger um trend in China, which is the promotion of ethnic Han civilization. So, China has about 55 minorities. The majority, like 90% of people are Han. Like, I'm a I'm a Han person. Um but there are lots of minorities in in the borderlands. And it was a policy of the Communist Party in 1949 to be as tolerant as possible to these minorities, meaning that they were given their own autonomy. Uh their language was promoted. There was heavy uh state subsidies for to protect the culture, to protect protect the language, to promote um ethnic minorities in mainstream Chinese society. And recently, there's been a push to promote Han nationalism, which means a clamping down on the rights of ethnic minorities. And the most obvious example is that schools in many in many places are no longer allowed to teach a second language. You're If you're a minority, you're only allowed to learn um Chinese as opposed to your local dialect. Interesting. And so, does that include English, or they teach you English in China? They are trying to reduce the teaching of English as well, but it is much too popular among middle-class Chinese who want to send their kids abroad. Um but but uh the official policy is to promote Chinese teaching over English teaching. And are there are there enough like, you know, the Muslims are fairly If I'm looking at the population right now, it says 20 to 25 million Muslims live in China, right? And roughly 1.5% to 2%. I don't know if those numbers are right or not. That's just, you know, Chad bringing that number up. And it it explains the largest group being the Hui Muslims, ethnically similar to the Han Chinese, which you were kind of talking about right now. What what can they do, and what can't they do? Because the Muslim religion in America grows because we have the freedom of speech. You can go out there and be in the streets praying. What can they not do in China? Um look, the reality is that the Communist Party prides itself on being atheistic. So, it is trying to downplay religion. Um not just against the Muslims, but also against Christians, against people of all faiths. And um they're trying to promote communist ideology uh above everything else. So, you can be religious as long as you accept that communism is the ultimate God, which is which means that most people who are religious are not going to accept this, right? Makes sense. Okay. So, is there things that you Do you know your limits of what you can and cannot talk about yourself? Like, what can you not talk about? Right. So, in China, um there are lots of things I cannot talk about. Uh but I'm not on social media. I'm not on Chinese social media. I don't talk to Chinese reporters. So, I I So, I'm not constrained by this. But uh because I'm based in China, I also have to watch I I also have to um watch what I say overseas, right? So, things I can't talk about um is the Tibet Taiwan issues, uh the uh Xinjiang issues. I cannot talk about this. I cannot name specific individuals in China who hold uh leadership positions. So, you will not hear me talk about or criticize um the leadership of China. I'm not allowed to discuss that. I'm not allowed to discuss the limitations of the military because they are invincible. Um and they are always right. Um [laughter] there there there are lots of things I can't talk about. >> [gasps] >> That is funny. Because they're always right. I like that, cuz that's like uh you know, something tells me that was a bit of a dig is is what it was. I'm trying to see your facial reaction to what you just said to see if it was a dig or if it was uh uh what you know you can't talk about. Did I lose you? Yeah. Yeah, so like the connection is is isn't great, actually. >> Okay. Well, we're we're at the end of it, about to wrap up. Last thing, Canada, China, US. China's buying up a lot of farmland in US and Canada. Why do you think that is? Look, the reality is that if you're a wealthy Chinese person, your dream is to move your assets and your family to America. And right now in America, there there are not that many assets that you can buy and and create value. So, farmland is just one one of these assets where you can store your wealth. And so, this is why a lot of Chinese are buying up real estate. That This is what Chinese do. They love buying real estate. It's not just America, it's like everywhere. So, it's not it's not any other reason but that. To your impression, it's just they're just buying it for real estate. They're not buying it because they want to control farmland and they want to control produce and any of that stuff. You're not going there. That's right. Look, look, I'm I'm 100% confident that this is individual Chinese behavior where they're trying to store their wealth. Um Look, the the reality is that if you leave your wealth in China, it there's no legal protection. The government can take it take it away at any time. >> Yeah. So, you want to move it overseas. And American farmland just happens to be a pretty good investment. Do you have any travel plans to come to the States? Are we going to see you in the States next 30, 60, 90 days? Probably not. Probably [laughter] not. Given how much Yeah. Yeah. Look, look, look, look. I mean, I would love to visit the United States. I would love to meet you in person. There's quite a few people who've asked me to visit, to be on the show. But I'm pretty sure if I go to the United States, I'm going to punch in the face at at some point. >> [laughter] >> I I think if you I think if you were, you know, giving your perspectives, like today's interview, very fair. I want the world to watch this. I thought this was a very good conversation that some may say it could have been antagonistic, but I actually was looking forward to having the exact conversation you and I just had here together. I'll give you the final thoughts before we wrap up. Is there anything else you want to share with the audience before we wrap up? Yeah, so I think these next few days will be crucial for the world. I pray to God, uh even though I'm not religious, that we come to a peace settlement. Um that Trump tackles again and uh Iran offers a a settlement that the Americans can agree on. I think that the settlement that the Iranians have offered so far, which is their control of the Strait of Hormuz, um has has been very fair. And it's quite honestly one of the most generous offers uh that the Americans will get from Iran so far. So, I pray to God that we come to a settlement in the next few days. But it's also possible these few days will see a major escalation where the Americans are targeting critical civilian infrastructure in Iran, which will force Iran to go into total war and respond forcefully against the GCC. In which case, um it's possible that we lose access to 20% of the world's energy and we lose 30% of the world's fertilizer. And this means that uh the entire world is going to be drawn into this war. This means that every person will be affected. Well, uh appreciate that perspective. Thank you for making the time to get on. I really enjoyed talking to you and looking forward to doing it again. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm available anytime. It's a great conversation. Thank you so much. >> Anytime. God bless. Take care. Bye-bye. Okay. Bye-bye.