JACK THE RIPPER was Part of the Royal Family - Traveler Keith Dighton tells all

Those murders were a lot lot more pre-planned. >> Everyone >> from higher levels. >> Everyone was pre-planned. >> How many murders do you think he's actually done? >> My grandfather. >> Yeah. Your great-grandfather. >> Me great um me great grandfather done a a lot of a lot of murders. Pulled out a lot of money. Went we need would you work for us? He said I've seen you up and down. You know you're the man that we need bodyguards. And basically what my grandfather and that used to do, they'd stand at the end of the alleyways all the way around. You want to know who killed Prince Albert? >> Yeah. >> Queen Victoria's personal bodyguard. He was his bodyguard. And then so they realized who who it was. And then when he realized who he was working for, he said the boys were fucked. They were literally above the law. So they were getting a buzz just by killing people and cutting out their organs. So it wasn't just one killer. He was getting other people to do the killings as well. >> Yeah. There wasn't just one. And they were doing gays as well. >> This week's [music] episode is sponsored by Change. Change is the number one mentoring program that teaches [music] you e-commerce from scratch. Change has a real community with real results. [music] I have attended many of his events and retreats across the world and got to meet members and the amazing community of like-minded people. Ryan works with a lot of big names in the business world, helping them build [music] online businesses and e-commerce. Change offers personal one-on-one support. No [music] experience needed, but like anything, this takes time and is not a get-richqu [music] scheme. Go follow Ryan on Instagram at RyanJB and he will guide [music] you through the steps to help you get started and build a successful online business. And you can watch the full podcast of me and Ryan talking about his life from where he has came from to what he is doing now. You can now follow me in all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be. And don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you're notified for when my next podcast goes live. Boom. We're on. And today's guest, we got Keith D. Keith, first, thanks for coming on the show. >> You're welcome. How are you? Thanks for inviting me, man. Lovely. Thanks for inviting me. >> You've released the book, Jack the Rippers, Assassins. It's been fact checked, which is important, but [clears throat] your family are sort of involved. Um, bare knuckle fighters, your grandparents, greatgrandparents. It never really came to light till a while after, but this sort of stories have been passed down from generations about sort of Jack the Ripper. There's been, I think, over 2,000 people interviewed. I think over 300 people, I think over 80 people detained. But very dark and it's always been a mystery. The Jackie Ripper stuff. I think the Sherlock Holmes stuff was out and it was all massive. And >> but 1988 there was I think they say between 88 and 91 there was 11 murders, but five have been from Jack the Ripper, they say, but it could have been more. But you've got valuable information. First and foremost, where can people buy your book? >> It's on Amazon at the at present moment. Um, so they can buy it from Amazon. So yeah. So very they find every the reviews are through the roof. We've had no bad reviews whatsoever. They find it interesting because it's a different angle. People don't know travelers. People, you know, we're all like bit scared. But we're not the people who think we are. We are some parts as you know, James. We are some like some parts. But the stories around the campfires was told and told and told and I stopped telling this story cuz my lovely lady wife is sitting over to my right hand side, left hand side, sorry. Um, she said, "Keith, stop telling them stories because you're making yourself look like an idiot." But there was documentation to back it up. Anyway, and then 18 months, two years ago, I thought, "Sol, all this is being lost. My language is being lost." So I've got another book coming out with language as well. No one don't know nothing James. So if I said to you Lativas Montreal came out of >> you have got no idea. >> 90% of the travelers don't know that and I just said hello my brother give us your end. >> So you know so I had to put it into a book to make everybody aware cuz it's a part of history and a good bit of history that we need to document and go down. And that's why I done it. Um because it was such an interesting story and you'll find out when all the your viewers get the book, they'll find out how interesting the story was. It's such a big case cuz it's still unsolved. There was many suspects which we'll get into. But before we get into everything, Keith, I always like to go back to the start with my guests to get more of a bit of understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. Well, myself um obviously from the traveling community shifted up and down the country met my lady wife met married and engaged in 3 months that was a you know lovely she's a good cook that's all I can say she bosses me about but she's a good cook um years ago 30 years ago we saw the right on the wall so we stopped moving now we do campsites u we got campsites co camping up in uh the um near Jeremy Clarkson's We got another park down Zim in Devon. Um so we do we got static parks in Brighton but we just pulled the antre up and lived like gorgeous live. >> Yeah, that's the way it should be. How was your upbringing? >> Very hard. James very hard. Uh father very violent. Used to beat me with a buckle of about um so yeah very hard up upbringing you We never had no baths, no showers. We go to a stream and wash and um jump in a stream. And in the winter time, James, that was bloody cold. So, yeah, we did have a very hard upbringing, but we go out, we'd be knocking the doors, calling um trying to take a bit of living the best way we can. Um used to make um I was the last boy of my age group cuz I was way before my time, used to go and make pegs and sell pegs. And I in in in my age group that was the grandparents that done it. So I know to make pegs, flowers and all silly things like that. So I was way before me time. Does that make sense? Yeah. So had a different a lot different upbringing. How do you think that shapes you with the beatings? Because a lot everyone get everyone kind of get beat up back then by by their parents. But how do you think it shaped you as a man? Because you're clearly doing well for yourself now. But how do you think it shaped you? >> Um, I have to say it's it's as it has made me a better man cuz I now respect everybody around me, you know, but I was beat to do things, you know, literally do things. And my father would say he was a very, very, very violent. Very violent. Wouldn't all my other brothers, but to me it was. >> Why you? Um well if we had to go get water one night and my oldest brother said I ain't going down the dark to go down there get some water down the road. He then say Keith you go and I was too small to carry the can. So I had to get half fill the can and if I wasn't back there and back in an hour I'd had Iden and I was like seven eight years old. Imagine walking down an old back lane on your own. So you grow up fast and you learn to walk faster James. You literally remember the book faster. So that's that's a sort of but there there was a lot of good times. You met some nice people and or you know every night no TV, no radio, no running water. We used to sit around the fars have a nice chat. So you know all my uncles no there was no uncle any uncle but you called him uncle and aunt and everybody you'd sit and they tell you stories of everything and every and this story came up time and time and time again we'd pull different places and they say what's your name my son uh I'm a dyon uncle you know and they g old to work for Jack the ripper and I didn't even know these And then then I'd start telling the story around the forest. Go on, you tell me what you know, you know. And um uh um the man that brought me into the world, don't like to call him, but the man brought me out and he'd stand at the back and he go, "Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right." Or my grandfather there, he'd help me out. No, no. And he changing on a couple of No, you got to say it. So we used to tell stories and it's like reading a book. They wouldn't let you change. No, no words. Uh uh James, but we used to live very hard. Very hard. Still got me old wagons. Um then we dig a trench the length of your body. Uh you literally about 7 8 in deep. And then we get a shovel, chuck the ashes in the trench, bring the dirt dirt back over, and then br and you lay all night. It was like an uh heated blanket like a heated uh soap, but we was used to it. James didn't know we didn't know uh any other way. It was a part of our our life. What about school? [sighs] >> James um only learned to uh literally read and and write when I left my lady wife. She's perfect solar. I wasn't um went in and out of schools hardly and wasn't really interested but and right up to I was about 30 30 years old couldn't um couldn't read and then the computer came about we bought the caravan parks and I had to go on the computer so I was like selftaught and then like no that's wrong that's wrong and you slowly pick things up James and you know I still don't bother reading. I won't lie to you. But now someone chugs me a letter or even I can read it. So I I literally taught me help yourself, James. You know, >> but it's still mad because I know a lot of the travelers and some of them still can't read or write, but they know how to work. They know how to make money. They know how to fucking count anyway. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we we do know, you know, it was lovely because we'd be stopping um for argument sake in Kent and I said to me and wife, we should be uh cooking a bit of Sunday lunch and I say, "Right, pack down and we'd shift straight to Scotland." Used to love Edinburgh. Always up and we go Edinburgh have a couple of months in Edinburgh. Had a had bed and breakfast in You've had bed and breakfast in Edinburgh? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What? My bed and breakfast? >> No, not yours. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. had a bit of bed breakfast in Edinburgh a couple of times and we go up there and we'd start knocking at the door tomorrow morning and take a living. It was a very good place to take a living and I found the Scottish people, not just saying it because yourself, very lovely, lovely people. And that's and Edinburgh changed me life. Um, completely changed my life. Uh, I got locked up. They flew me down to England, got locked up in Edinburgh cuz I done a little bit of skull dubbery. We won't go into that too much. Down to Bath. Um and basically we um that was going on for several months. They they com they literally clamp um all me banking accounts, froze them all and um I saw the writing on the wall and I thought no and that's the last place we stopped was Edinburgh. And then we came back and I said to moms we'll go to America. So I went and bought the tickets to go to America and she said, "I ain't going. I ain't going." And there was a trailer park for sale on the island of Shepy >> and was that >> uh oh please be a rough place. It's in that book was a rough place. >> The old great granny ended up having the arty ferry the ferry on it. So they pulled the horses pulled the things over and um we bought a trailer park and the shepherd. Well, I bid a man for it. never beat him enough and she didn't want to move to uh America and she went back. Typical woman, you know, over the top of all men, every every good man's got a better woman behind her. >> True. >> And we bought the trailer park and and we literally then all the things that I used to do, James, that I used to do for a living. I was very good at my job. >> Um, you know, uh didn't do things bad bad. Never robbed anybody. might have overcharged a few people, you know, but that's what I got got done for, but I got acquitted which was good. Um, and then we just settled down and and I thought, you know, met a few vicers and got a couple of mates there, police officers, and they go, would you do that to your and it changed me and we stopped doing it, James, and we now are very, very respected our community. Everybody knows us, you know. Everybody always comments to my wife. They say, "Co, you look like a gorge, Keith." You know what that means? >> And but see, I always say, "You're definitely a traveler cuz she she's as dark as the ace of spades." But no, we just settle down and into life as is now. Still, I still go up and down. And odd days, uh, it is odd days. My M says, "You'll get an idol. Your brain's not sharp." So I go out, go knock a door, see if I can take a job again. And I always take a job. But it's part of you, James. You, you'll never change who you are. You, you know, wherever you move to, you'll always be Scottish. You'll always have your roots here. And we still maintain our roots. And me and my wife, half the time when we're at home, we speak our own language between us. Keep trying to And I try to learn the young ones the language the best I can. >> So what is your own language? It's reminisce. Um, but I just >> How how long's that language been? >> James, I was in France the other day. Took my grandkids to Euro Disney. Don't go there, mate. >> You know, bloody 80 minutes for a ride. I know. But anyway, but we went there, met French travelers, walked straight over, start chatting to them. >> They they speak it differently, slightly different than what we do. Like we say juk, which your podcasters understand that means dog. They say zuk, we say gorgeous, they say kenik or we say kenik. >> So we say hand is waster. They say vasta. But I understand the dialect is like a Scottish dialect and English dialect. So if you listen to it, but if you go all over Europe, I go to France, Italy, Germany, and all the travelers there, they speak it. And and in England, you you walk a basic word. What a basic word. Mhm. >> Uncle. Basic word. >> Yeah. >> And that's why everybody still calls me this. Coco is uncle. BB aunt. Uh Pinner sister. Prowl brother. And >> nothing. >> None of them speak it anymore. >> When was the first time you heard a Jack the Ripper story? >> Um Oh, she sitting on my grandfather's lap. >> So your grandfather is Andrew and Caroline? >> No. That's the great grandparents. >> My great-grandparents. >> Yeah. >> And >> so they've obviously part of it which we'll get into, but they've passed that down then to their kids and they've passed it down to you. >> But see, I was I was unusual. I got a brother Lawrence and he don't speak any hardly any romanes. But he wasn't interested. I was interested. I'd say, "Grandfather, what's that?" And he go, "Pie Walter." So, and he and I I used to click with him. So I used to ask him everything and he'd tell me and he'd say to me a bashi which means come here and sit down. Um so and I used to pick up everything and he'd start telling me about stories and I say grandfather tell me some stories. So he used to mix the stories up. You tell me stories about uh the war in ways of the first world war cuz my grandma was 56 when she had my uh fa uh father. So she was an old lady in today's day standards. Very old. Very old. So I'm all my aunties and uncles were really like grandparents to me. My grandfather should have been my greatgrandfather really. And I I used to relate to him, sit and chat to him, have lovely conversations, and he'd tell me how they used to go up to the hotels in London and do all the scams in the hotels and how uh my grandfather used to play the darts and do the scams. But if you want to go deeper than that, I can tell you that. But I'm cutting it short for you. And he was a very violent man. He was 7 foot2 in his day. He was a big long reach. And one man came up in the pub one day. Me granny great granny Caroline selling some ever. And he pinched her ass and he had a sword with it had um blue bells, pink, sorry, white and blue blue bells on the handle all encrusted in gold. and he pulled it out and he jabbed it straight for the man's ear, killed him and then chucked him into the temps. Um he was a very well known to be of a cuz he had the reach no get on to him, you know. Um and uh me used to put a pint glass on the table and just smash the people's heads on him. So he was a nice back but a very caring man as you don't sound caring does it? And then um he got approached by a man and he was in a pub one day. So if you're asking about this, this is how it happened in a pub and he saw a man and he said to all these boys that man he's watching us in it and they literally so I'm giving the short version. So they surrounded the man went over the man he went pulled out a lump of money went would you work for us? He said, "I've seen you up and down. You know, you're the band that we need bodyguards and um there was a fellow old fellow there called um Tony Barney from the Barney family, New Forest People. They used to sell ponies. Uh but I'm cutting all things short cuz I could that was a half an hour story, so I'm just trying to cut it down." >> Yeah, you don't need to worry about time. >> And um anyway, they uh he turned around and offered them the job. And it was silly money at the time. Silly, silly money. And basically what my grandfather and that used to do that stand at the end of the alleyways all the way around. So James lives in this road. James walks up the road and where you off to, mate. Come back to me house. No you ain't. >> Fuck off. Yeah. Is it all right? Swear. >> Yeah, of course. >> Yeah. Yeah. Fuck off. walk the other way and you go listen mate I'm scotch I who who you are turn so it's you and your brother or you and um so you didn't want to back down so me great grand if he had his pistol he' turn around and go put it to your head warn you and he'd shoot you the boys would chuck you straight in the dems or he pull out a knife and stab you and when he pulled his knife out or pulled the gun out you'd say but they didn't realize what they were doing. And they had always been placed around the streets, but there was another line. We was they were just, you know, army recruits, you know, that there's a war tomorrow. We're recruits. We go in first. They say the troops to last. We're just picked off first to hold the people back. And then when he realized who he was working for, he said, "The boys were fucked. We're fucked." and the Rippers gang hunted them down in the streets and my grandfather used to tell me. So that's just giving you a short version of it and he used to tell me what they used to do and um old Tony Barney um which my grandfather was great-grandfather was very good friends of him. There was in they they stabbed me grandfather great-grandfather Andrew Tony went in front and took a bullet for him and his wife um they literally pulled a sword out run through and he said to me great grandma leave go go go and he just got up and charged into him and they chopped him to pieces and so me grandfather escaped you know so I'm giving you I'm running for if you want me to go back there's more to So someone who's got a bit of a bit of wealth has paid your grandfather great-grandfather to then cover the tunnels and cover the tracks >> all the exits. >> Was that when did the a penny drop though? Obviously when he was covering those stuff and then there was murders happening. I think it was only period of 3 months or 4 months that there was five different sex workers killed. >> Yeah. But what it uh basically was uh it wasn't only that. Um he was um uh it was Blo as well. They were they were doing BS. It was like uh we won't go into that cuz people say but but basically it's hard to explain to you my grandfather grand Andrew he used to go into the seavoi and clarages and he book the best rooms he'd pull up and they go so jumping can I jump? Yeah. Yeah. >> Jump because it makes a story. But >> he used to go in the clarages. When he got in the clares, all the staff knew him. He'd pull out in the day like it make his 50 quid at the door and they go, "Hello, sir. How are you? Got your table." So he'd uh be in a table with other people. And my great grandma used to have orchids in her ear. Now James for someone to have live orchids in your hat you add some dough you know for you know that's uncord of so then ladies will come over and say oh I admire your orchid really nice it's lovely and my grand great great grandmother say oh please sit down have a conversation you know have a tea but in the rooms in clarages years ago the likes of people today poor people class people really couldn't get in there. You only could get in these rooms if you were in the, you know, in the suites. So, everybody in that room had money. So, my grandfather then, great-grandfather, um, he would then talk to you and then his wife would talk to the lady and it was all planned, pre-planned. So he'd offer you one of the best brand he's going. You'd be in the smoker's room having a cigar and he'd say, "Uh, do you like a prostitute? I like a prostitute." So you go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Where do you go when you come to London?" So you'd say an ounce of dispute where you used to go and what lady you used to go and yeah, I go into London and I have this affair, that affair. What do you do? Blah blah blah blah. So we get all the information from you and um my great grand granny Caroline she'd get the information from the wife you know was how your how's your marriage and blah blah dise you know so my great grandma would tell all ask her all these questions this woman would open up and my great grandma would mirror her so she oh yeah my husband's act the same so she find all this But my grandfather Togo Dyon, Henry Dyon, who I used to sit on the lap. Are you in that book? Um, he used to be with the children and they had a private nanny in clarages, you know, so that my so we say it's me and my wife had private nanny in carriages or aoy and your kids were there and so I'd say just got to go check out the kids for a second. So I walk in there, you've told me your kids' name and you say the kids names are Bill and Jame figure of speech. So then my or my should I say would then go to play with them to find out information. Then after all the information was found out my you know high path lovely cafe in there. I'll book you in in the cafe and oh you can't get a table there. I'll get you. Don't worry about that. So he sent a runner. The runner would go book the table cuz he always had the table booked all the time on me. We're leaving London. Uh we're leaving. He said, "But please." So you now knew you was got a table which would cost you three or400 today's standards for you and your lady wife and cuz the kids would stay in the hotel. So it was on the front. Then the next day, my uh great grandma would take those lovely gowns off, put on all the um uh uh scruffy clothes. You didn't recognize she'd walk up to you and touch your hand in penny, you know, like give some money for lucky ever. You'd say, "Piss off you old py, you know, piss off. Don't want you." And then she'd touch you. Oh, your name's James. Uh, and she touched your wife's name and we'll say it's Janet and and she said, "Uh, you've got a boy called so and so so so and so." Now you're intrigued. You're totally intrigued. How this one now you got a business venture coming up. One's going to make you, one's going to break you. So, but you already told my grandfather. Now, if you give me some money, you know, how much would you give me? And they go, "Oh, I'll give you you're going to lose everything. This is a you and you're going to be poor in poverty. Your wife's going to commit suicide, you know. Uh, and then so that this information will go on and so you now know every this woman's impossible, this woman to know. And by the way, you know that Rolex you got on and that diamond ring I got on that's bringing you bad luck. Um that's got to be blessed. That has to be go to the church and get it blessed. So then you probably would have then those six or seven00 on you which would been a lot of money. So my grandma would take all the money and then go where is £100 back? But when I next see you when you do that go to that job not that job you give me done go to the vicar in the church and then the vicar will bless it because that's bring you bad luck good so they go there to the church walk to the church she'd walk him to the church so give me a bit of crash course meet the priest yes we do we don't charge for anything but donation is you know if you donation coppers or think lovely. So we bring out a red cushion. You put the watch on the ring on the dummy earrings. Put it on the on the pillow. I'll be back in 20 minutes. Sit there. So what a nice that traveling woman a nice woman. Was she a nice woman? Nice vic. Hour go past me. He's taking his time. Priest walks in. Uh excuse me father. Where's the priest? I am the priesty. It was another traveling man. [laughter] So they used to get loads of scums. Yeah. Oh, but you know it's So if you did something in the short, I could I could go on all day about that, James. That would take a long a long time. But that is how they used to do all the scams, you know. I'll give you five different versions which you don't want to know that, but I'm just giving you the shortest version. But that's how they used to do the scams. um at least uh sometimes um they'll book a table for the Monday and when they book the table for the on the Monday um they take you to the bank and get you to transfer you know one it my uh grandma had £12,000 um um they draw £12,000 out the uh their account and give it to my great grandma. Now in London at the time you could have bought a house for 200 quid even here probably less than that. So they were they were notorious of uh and they got in high society and they even got into the palaces. Um, so it it tells you uh in the in the book who killed Prince Albert. Even that you want to know who killed Prince Albert? >> Yeah. >> My great-grandfather poisoned him cuz he died of a stomach bug. But he tried to get me great grandma's knickers and you poisoned him over it. But um so they were really really really really really nice people and they were the Bonnie and Clyde of the day. Everybody used to go up and down and they used to talk him around the camp flows. So, you know, instead of I used to say when I was young, I'm a D. I know you are. We could be in Edinburgh, but and the travels in Edinburgh, the Lowe's and MC and whatever. I know you a lot. I've heard stories about you a lot. >> How many murders do you think he's actually done? >> Me grandfather. >> Yeah, the great grandfather. My great um me great grandfather had done a a lot of a lot of murders. Um >> he was also a bare knuckle fighter. >> He was a bare knuckle fighter. Yeah. Yeah. A very very rough man. Like I say, he had the height. Uh he had the reach. Um you could no one could No one I don't know if he ever lost a fight. So I can't He probably did he probably did like lose a fight. But the majority time he's But if you got the best of him, he he'd literally pull a knife out and stab you, you know. He'd get you in a position where he he'd have something pugged. And my granddad used to say he literally you understand pug, didn't you? >> He'd have it pugged up. So he get in a room here and he'd have something pugged to one side. So if you were being the best of it, have some of that. So he was a he was a but ample times my granddad told me he's walking down the road the man wouldn't even move. So he's too drunk. The bloke said, you know, you got to move. Get out the way. He said he I can't be my mess. Fight this man. I won't swear. He went p bang shot him in the head to the boys. Chuck him in the temps. [laughter] >> It must be after your bodies in there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, honestly, the amount of times my grandfather told me about the amount of people that he he he go to this table right now. get up, you know, and if you never got up, there was there was he used to love it. He used to thrive on it. Thrive on it. And then he used to do a scan. So in the weekdays, the scam was a good one. In the week days, they go around um Elephant Castle, you know, and that they play darts and my great-grandfather of notes on him like that. So you walking above James playing darts and you be playing with me great uncle Lawrence you know uh a a pound of you know an old or an old fiverr closest to the board so he's he's losing to you and he you know and me great uncle Lawrence he turn and say well I've got to go m you know gives me money and he go look this bloke do you want to And cuz you see you was well dressed. So he'd play you for a pound or five, you know, you'd shut the dart and you go on the outside, you get worseer. Then he get you up to 100 a quid a lot a lot of money. James, you chuck you a dart and you go bullseye. It was a scam. >> Yeah. Hustling. But before they done that, my great grandma Carol and I were walking to the pub and saying lucky ever anybody like but my granddad's great grandmother just lost probably uh 100 quid or not more and he come over here you bitch I'll buy something you py so he'd buy some ever offer just pull out you know a pound note or a five and0 change yeah I'm a wealthy man I can afford it and give to her. Well, when you was up to like under 100 quid or whatever, even more than that, he So, he let you chuck it. And when he chucked the dart and got the bullseye and he go, I'll buy some more that lucky ever. So, everybody in the pub would buy the lucky ever off me granny great granny. She said she she'd be sold out. So then they go to the next pub and the next pub and the next pub and the next pub and then they got they've then I got caught but sometimes some people didn't um they realized it was a scam and then me great grandfathers they just he just set about you know >> yeah so they were earners they know how to earn the family they were earners know how to earn money >> so that's what they do through the week they go all different parts of London and um I come across a man uh there that played uh playing cards and gambling and they won a lot of money of him and they um it's right to the end of the going towards the end of the book and they ended up getting into the palace and this man recognized him and he went listen I want money of you else I'm telling everybody who who you are so my great-grandfather that cuz they give Queen Victoria a rug, you know, a bit of a rug. But I'm jumping the gun on that one. Um I have to think I wind back a bit on that one. They um so anyway, so well they they were very very ruthless and they were in clarages and there was um you know Woodstock Ben Palace. >> Well, the Earl of Bellow Palace and his wife were in Clarages um celebrating the I couldn't tell you what it but they were celebrating and my great-grandfather couldn't get in the room. So me old gray Caroline went to um say the one of the it was one of the kids birthday so she caught a coach over to Harrods and bought a carousel came back give it to the child then got them all sweets all the kids all sweets made up for marriage. So, um, the, uh, lady of Blood Palace went to check on a child. Would you have one? Oh, it was a lady that got that. What was her name? It was Henry's mommy, which was my grandfather, you know. And she said, "Well, could you point your mommy and daddy out for me?" But they couldn't get into this room. So straight away they got invited into the room cuz when me grandfather found out great you didn't see you I'm fucking killing you. She said don't worry we'll get it back. I got you I got you in the room. I got you in the room and then they done the scams and they got invited there and they went to Blham Palace and they they took um rugs there and presented with with rugs. And so they got in the high society and kept on finding out all things. stop the dark plane and and then they were going from place to place to place getting invited everywhere and and literally scamming people scamming and scamming people. Very clever. >> So rubbing shoulders with >> royalties as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> From the bottom of the tree to the top. >> Yeah. Queen Victoria. Yeah. >> Anyway they could get an they would get one. >> And they they got angles but they were very very like I said the Bonnie Clyde of today. They were very very clever clever people. How how tall was your great grand? >> She was only very short. She about the size of my lovely lady wife, you know, 5' one. That was it. She was very very tiny. Very tight. Blonde. She was blonde hair. Um, blue eyes. And my grandfather was blonde hair. Um, and blue eyes. Yeah. They they met. >> How many kids did they have? [sighs] >> Cool. They had a few. Some of them. What you on about? And um and Andrew. Yeah. >> Yeah. They had a they had a good few kids. Um I think they had seven in in total. Some died. Uh and when this happened jumping towards then some of them escaped to uh America cuz they they got hunted down in the streets. Literally they hunted down. But they had a they had a very very big family. >> How did they meet? >> That's what I just got to tell you. Um the Earl of Ry we had the rights. Um, my family's got the rights to stay at castle gates because we fought at the battle of Ains. We had the rights to have our own grounds or any castle. We could pull our wagons and our tents outside the castle gates and we had the rights to stay there. They couldn't stop us. So, we had the rights. And the Earl of Roy had a bit of a problem. and my great-grandfather um an uh um my great-grandfather's Andrew's father which unfortunately do you know I don't even know his name and he and um he said to the if you want my boy he stay with you and we'll come and pick him up next year. So he was in the village and want to earn some money, knocked a couple of people out and the old realized what he was capable of and he learned him to read and but his one of his maids was one of the smiths which my great granny Caroline she was a smith and she worked as a maid maid in the in his house and they met uh and my great-grandfather would get fights for him. Sorry, the Earl would get fights for him. So, he'd have all these fights, you know, don't knock him out straight away. Take your time. So, he'd take a bit of a beating, then knock them out. And then he said, "You got to love this, James. You got to love this." And then even sometimes they get, but he learned how to dress and how to, you know, conduct himself. and and my great great-grandfather turn up with the year following. He went, "No, Dad, I'm going to stay with him for a bit longer." He said, "This man," he said, "we're doing all right." You know, say, "Go on, my son. Stay there with him." He said, "I've met a young traveling girl here." He said, "I'm thinking up getting married." So anyway, they he got so he would take him up to London and you know in a pub u restaurant bar get him a fight you know and they realized that he would bet against you know he's going to lose so he'd bet £100 for the sake of saying that against Andrew. So people think that's his that's his ban and he's b he's going to lose but he'd already got someone else to bet £500 that he's going to win. So everybody would do and anyway they realized it was a scam and this is the funny bit. They'd end up doing a jewel and he done lots of jewels. You know a jewel isn't >> Yeah. >> So they go up there [clears throat] now you're 5'4 a figure of speech and this bloke's like [clears throat] up there. You realize you've the pistols were there. My old great grandma never had a second. Never had a second under the case. So you your hands are like that shaking. So the bloke would pick up the gun, get the ball bearing, load it, you know, give it to you. I'd crack around, pick up the ball beard. You ready? No. ball bearing. You need actually sometimes you got like throw it at you but I'm ready. So you pick the ball bearing up back to back 10 bases. Now James, you think I've got this in the bag, but the recall used to kick and time they used to miss anyway. So, as they used to um go back to back, then my grandfather will pull a a great grandfather pull a catapult out his pocket. And um my family is very very good. We're known for catapults. Uh my son at 30 paces can hit a 5p piece of a wall. You know, at 30 m eat a 5 piece. So, he's accurate. And my great grand was the same. So he pull the catapult out at 10 paces each. He go like that and straighten your eye >> from a slingshot. >> Well, a slingshot. They were that good or they take the gun out your hand cuz he did sometime think, you know, James wasn't rude to me. I'll just take the gun out of his hand. So when he saw the smoke come, he'd fire at the gun to knock the gun off. So yeah, so he he was a but sometimes he'd literally said, you know, used to but he always eye shot. So he'd take the eye straight out of your head. But when you're walking back to back and turning then aim the bloke was a cat. What is this man crazy? But you had no but the the recoil on the gun would kick up. So so he was known for a >> what would happen if someone turned before the 10 paces. I would imagine people's asses would have went where people would have turned after eight. Luckily, no there. But that that society that my grandfather was with the uh the ry of Kent there uh the the Earl of Kent, he was they were in the elite people. So they're all like college graduates, you know, army people. So it was it was gentlemen, you know, walk down the path, lady on the inside, on the outside, you know. So he was with gentleman. wasn't like people like me and you. We can we be turn you. >> I'm trying to get an extra percentage over you. >> Well, not a Roman. They're called a gray >> a gr very good horse uh horse people. See that's another thing that they used to do. They used to go to London and that was with the Barney and they used to end up um there being uh Bartley Square. People were running up and down the horses and my granddad would say cuz he's met you in the hotel. My great-grandfather, that's a good bear. I'll buy that man. That man breeds good horses. So that's the one. So it'd end up buying horses off of some travelers, get you roped and you buy a load of horses whale and the next day when you get delivered to a load of knackers, >> you know. So it's it's a it's James, I could talk to you all day, 5 hours, and we wouldn't even touch it. So, you got to tell me what you want to talk about. >> Oh, God. >> But it's good to have a bit of backstory of the levels that they went to. And everybody's listen, it's survival mode back then. It's survival mode now. And that's how they survived. See the man who offered them money to work for him. Who was that man? >> He was um uh Queen Victoria's grandson's personal bodyguard. So you're talking royal family then. They've mentioned I think that some of the royals get took in for questioning. >> Yeah. >> Because we talk about harvesting things now because there was um mutilation there was organs cut out as well because we talk about one harvesting organs now is one of the biggest industries. >> What was it >> in the world at the moment? So back then I would imagine >> this is a possibility as well that organs were getting took. Well, was my grandfather used to tell me that when they used to do that, obviously he was not witnesses of it. And now my greatgrandfather tumbled when he was doing um when he was in high park. You see, man, get the carriage and it had the Royal Crest and it had the same cane that he had. And this man in the pub presented him with a cane and it he comes that man there has got the same cane as what we did and they followed the man and found out who he was and he said boys we're fucked. We're fucked because of how high up these people were. >> Yeah. He said he said we're fucked. So they ended up leaving them. So jumping way forward. If you want to jump way forward. >> Yeah. Whatever. >> Jump way forward. and my greatgrandfather left a false trail saying to everybody that they were going uh to Cambridge and all the travelers on the way said you know but they were notified but he done it previous that you know they've gone to Cambridge but they didn't go to Cambridge and then when they got to Cambridge the travelers there turned them and said no they went they've gone down to the new forest and they're catching the ferry over to America, you know. So, um, they sent a a troop of men to Cambridge. When you send a troop of men to Cambridge and all back, how many days that take? And when they got down to the New Forest, my great-grandfather Andrew bought tickets to go abroad and his brother Lawrence uh to buy the tickets. And me, my grand great father Lawrence, he went, I ain't going. So he give his tickets away to someone else. But his brother, he went and that's why there's Ditans over in in America once and my grandfather then went down, great-grandfather went down to the aisle of Shepy and literally pumped herself up there, you know. Um they got the ferry crossing and you know my great-grandfather uh he had one of the first Rolls-Royces. He used to have a Rolls-Royce, you know, um very very wealthy people. Didn't know what to do with the with the money. Um James, very wealthy people. So I know I'm jumping from back back to front, did you? >> So what was your greatgrandfather getting paid to do? what was his exact job from these like royal members? >> Um, basically all he did with these boys, they just had to stop the alleyways. So that all the alleyways going in um they be at the end of the alleyway anybody coming through like yourself James doesn't know it was you know sorry mate you can't go no further and under no circumstances did they they get caught and then in the book as well it also tells you a bit where one of the travelers got killed cuz me granny was in her great granny was in a pub When she was in the pub, the man recognized her and he tried to grab her and one of the travelers said and they were they didn't realize it was me grandfather as well. They were all part of the scam with part of the scam she sucked. So me granny was bolting and one of the troopers said stop that woman. He went go. He said I couldn't stop her. And then me great granny then didn't want to say nothing to me grandfather and kept its she you should have told us. >> So it was a lot those murders were a lot lot more pre-planned. >> Everyone was from higher levels. >> Everyone was pre-planned. Everyone was pre Yeah. Um so the only part of the books in there where we is a speculation is where you'll see in the book you read the book where someone's punching the table say one dead tomorrow. They must have said that that's bit suspect. But for them to be hunted down in that degree, it had to been, you know, no one would send 50 horseback riders to Cambridge, you know, and all the boys that my great-grandfather had around him, they could fight like the boys, you know, we like were bought up to fight. >> Yeah. >> And they they could they could but they was no good to to them. Trained train men. your grand your great grandparents were ruthless anyway. If he's doing murders, he's not asked if he's getting murder. As long as he's getting paid. But when did the penny drop that it was that these Jackie Ripper killings were he was involved? Well, when the penny really really dropped, a man in the coach in in London in High Park and then me um uh great granny said that's that's the bloke that was there that night. You should Why didn't you tell me this? You know, I mean grandfather he said grandfather was very up um your great-grandfather my father he said was very up. He says, "You should have told us this." He said, "You know, and then what he done, uh, they approached him. He was going to the same pub, "Oh, you're working tomorrow night. Bring him in." Lovely. So me grandfather was going to turn around and said to some traveling men, he said, "We ain't going." He go, "Don't want to go." He said, "Crank, idiot, we go." So he said, "Don't go." So me grandfather is here. Here's the money. You have it. We don't want it. And uh week later uh these there was only two of them, two uh uh brothers and they were um um part of the Cunningham family which are north country travelers very uh very rail educated the cunning are know them today and both of them was found floating down the temps with a throat cup. So obviously they realized then me grandfather said grand said we got to bolt. We got to bolt. >> So they were trying to kill them because the the guy's identity >> was revealed. >> Yeah, it was revealed. So they ended up they done um they had a uh they was doing the scams in the pub. >> So was that a setup then? Were they were they getting set up to being killed? >> You give me a setup >> because your great seen the guy with the cane? Yeah. Yeah. >> Is that correct? >> That's right. Yeah. >> So then what happened >> and that was the guy who was doing is that Jack Redipper? >> No. It was that was Queen Victoria's he was he was um Queen Victoria's personal bodyguard. He was his bodyguard. And then so they realized who who it was. And my um great grand uh uh grandma Caroline because she was in the palaces when uh Queen Victoria's grandson was in the alleyway. She recognized him straight away and the man so she thought shit because she was with him in the palaces. >> So he's the killer. >> He was the killer. He was the killer. But there was a few men that used to do the killing apparently. >> So what would what do you think the killings were about? Was it satanic or was it for your own gain? You know yourself when you're so wealthy up that ladder. Money? >> No. >> Everything is there's nothing. There's no feeling to it. >> No. >> But there's some sick people in the world even now with money without money. But what do you think the agenda was behind that? Was it satanic or is it >> I I don't know what the word satanic means. So >> it's like devil worshiping. It's like >> right. Yeah. cutting organs and they do like prayers and all that weird shit. >> I think personally um the old grand said nothing on it. He said they was just sickos. They they had they had everything. If you've got everything, what do you get if you got everything? You got to just like do something else for kicks. A you James. >> So you know and that's what he used to say. He said there was just there wasn't right in the head. You know they had everything. So they could they were above the law, you know, they were literally above the law. >> So they were getting a buzz just by killing people and cutting out their organs. So it wasn't just one killer, he was getting other people to do the killings as well. >> Yeah. There wasn't just one. And they were doing gays as well. >> Um so there were a few they records and ch there was lovely gentlemen, you know, you know, obviously gentlemen. Um, today it's acceptable and I've got lots of friends that live in I live in Brighton. Um, and I've got lots of friends and they're best mates. Give him a cuddle, give him a kiss, you know, but it ain't not that way. [laughter] You know what I'm saying? It ain't that way. No, but back then, back then, James, it was a different, you know, trying to take him out and it was a different world. >> Why was the gays never mentioned then? Why has it only been the five female sex workers? Well, I think why that was actually was James and my grandfather and I asked him the same similar question to that. He said if it ever got tracked down um that that a part of that society were all gay. He said it would have turned into a civil war. Who's leading the country? Gay people. And it would have done James. It would have it would have led to a civil war, you know. Um, but they were just it was just all for kicks. >> How many murders do you actually think there's been then? Because the they say there was 11, but five had their organs cut out. So obviously if it's different killers, there could potentially be 20, 30, 50, over a hundred if there's different people getting killed because I'd imagine some of these people might have been watching. Other people get killed as well for their own kind of sick kicks. Well, to my knowledge, what my grandfather said, he reckoned that when he used to do what he'd done, he done over 20 over 25 appointments. So 25 appointments he done. 25. That's a lot of appointments. If there was only 11 killings, but 20 over 25 appointments he done that was a period of time. So he done a lot of appointments only on a couple occasions. He said me father he said he done over over he said 24 over 24 25 he said but sometimes he said he was so pissed out with brains and then some he says can you come tonight he said so some on odd occasions he said he didn't even attend you know he too drunk couldn't stand up. So that's why there's no one ever being convicted because there was so many I think 80 people were detained. It was a Polish man. I've wrote his name down. Aaron Kaminski. I think he was sort of psychotic. He was in that area of immigrant. And then you had Charles Allen because they brought in butchers. They thought because people were getting sliced up. It was possibly a butcher or a doctor. Um and then you had another guy Antonio which Clawski or something. But his he had killed these three wives prior by poisoning them. they became their main suspects. So, do you think that was just to deflect away then to try and keep the royals safe? >> Once again, I have to say cuz you you hit on a very good uh point there. And he said my grandfather said he said all them stories was going about. He said that's just deferring people, making them look that way, that way, different aspects. He said because it was close. He said it was close. He said, "I I don't know how we got away with it so long." He said, "But we used to love it." He said, "Being paid to kill someone's handy in it." Which is true. No, not Andy really, is it? It ain't Andy. But but yeah, they used to deflect a lot, you know. Um, but there was travels were so in the back much in the back. Even today, there was a lot of mystery around us today. You know, we're very honorable people. You know, they argue a day. They get in the field and have a punch up, you know, and that's it. Shake hands, walk away. But we go, we literally, you know, me and my Mes on the side road, we'd wake up early in the morning and move. So, no one didn't know which way we went, you know. So, there's still a lot of mystery. I kind of love that idea, though. I always think about going off grid. >> Yeah. >> I hate this bullshit. >> Yeah. >> You know, and as the more I got older, the more I can't be ass with people. >> Yeah. >> It's just fucking do my nothing. I just love my dogs, my kids. But even my kids are a pain in the ass. >> But >> I just feel like going off grid. I feel as if there's always something calling me to go off grid and then pop up from time to time. >> I just I feel as a very fast-paced world. And I feel as if people have completely lost the plot. People ain't good anymore. There's always been bad anyway, but social media has heightened the madness. I think we're now starting to see the effects of social media, what it's done to people's minds. >> I agree, James. Uh social media is a bad thing today. Some of it's a good, some is a bad. You know, politics is a very bad area to go in at the present moment as I look at it. You know, my opinion of politics, if you want to go there, I'll give it to you. But we we all do a job. We try our utmost hardest. And I got to give it to all the guys. You can't be you can't please everybody in the room, you know, and that's the trouble. You you can't please everybody. But we go off the grid all the time, me and my MS. We go up in the morning, we do our own thing, you know. We try we try to be the best we can. Um I pay my taxes which I don't like. We got a massive bag big tax bill at the moment which we got to pay. But people say travelers who don't pay tax, do yourself a favor. I pay more tax than you've earned this year. You know, but people don't realize that. But we do like going off crib me and my misses. We just we just like doing our own our own thing like be respectful for everybody >> but listen life we have seen so much am we've seen so much changes in our life >> so much James that's the world we live in at the present moment >> you know um you know going on about the boat people if you want to just quickly on that one >> travel's opinions of the boat people and you you won't agree with me listen they're coming over they're here. Once someone's here, you got to cope with the people, you know, where some are not genuine. There's not genuine people, but the majority of them are genuine people. If they come over here, so what we say all they want to do, if they want to come, give them a job picking up paper. If they don't want to do it, put them in a compound and, you know, let them be processed or send them back. But if they want to come over here and work, give them a job picking paper up. Make a but tag everyone, you know, cuz we don't know who they are. just tag them and if you're happy to be tagged, you can stay there. So all the problems is happening up and down. You can but the the politicians today haven't got the balls because everything is about you know hold on you can't say this you know look what's happened um of all the MPs you know he's messing about with that lady he's messing about that lady so what if the mess the man's doing his job long as he do his job in his private life let him do it >> but they're all corrupt man I don't trust any of them like I say if you've got the right documentation or we know who you are I'm asked where do you go? I go I travel the world but when I travel the world I've got my passport. I'm spending I'm spending dough people can work. Listen the UK and America's caused more destruction on this planet than fucking anywhere. >> You know what I'm saying? They've conquered over 90% of the world England%. >> But I just feel as if have the right documentation cuz if a woman and a child gets hurt, we don't know who the fuck you are. >> Then somebody's got somebody's got to pay the price. But if somebody's willing to work and and graft and integrate into this that society where they're going to, by all means do what the fuck you want. Nobody's asked. But it's just worth the rise in rapes. It's the rise in other things that's happening. I think nah, something needs to because as a father who's got three kids, my job is to protect them for their future cuz the kids are the future. But they can't be protected. Even in London that you're not supposed to wear a watch, I still wear my jewelry. I think who gives a fuck? You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to go hiding. But that isn't safe to the way it used to be. Yeah. we bit. I'm always on not on edge, but I've always got my wits around me. I always know want to know who's behind me, who's in front of me. I'm always on guard, but as I it's not as safe as it used to be 5 years ago, 10 years ago. It will change again. People are But James, I can tell you, you know, and put this out on on the podcast, which is a very good thing. And I tell people, you know, when you're in London, any city in the world, and you and someone happens to give you eye contact and you think, sim, if you see that person three times, they're following you cuz you got that lovely watch on. Jump in a taxi and piss off. This is what people people today, they're uneducated because of it. >> Yeah. >> That's how they are on that phone all the time. They're not aware of the surroundings. And the same travelers were around of the surroundings all times. All times. It's like everywhere over Europe, the travelers can move freely. But they'll put in a um a thing now about racist. We can't stop the road no more. We're not allowed. Every time our caravans three in a in a in a row, they take our caravans off. So that but all the other countries still let the travelers do it. So, you know, we live it's a lovely country in England. I I I love it and I don't think I want to I visit but I wouldn't but we could all improve the way we are but like you [clears throat] said down to the even the book it's so so corrupt me and my lady wife we're we're cashless we don't what's cash I don't know what cash is you know I draw £100 out of the bank a little while ago had to pay a chap I and another chap said oh can I have 100 quid and I draw the money out to pay these two chaps genuine I can prove it. The poxy banks froze the money for 3 months and we had to go cashless. So on the campsites when people come in and cole camping we have now when you come up and you go oh I'd like to get a pitch for the night. >> We can't take cash. We're cashless. So they've got me. >> Yeah. >> Where do they want me, James? >> Yeah. But that's the whole system is going to go cashless anyway. >> Yeah. >> But you've just got to keep your head above water. And like I say, I know a lot of people might not want to hear this, but if you get robbed sometimes, the majority is on yourself because the majority of people are good, but if you're not keeping your wits around you, the tell times are signs are there. When you're getting your phone stuck to or whatever, it is more pre-planned than what people think. Obviously, you've got your kamicazi jobs, but if you've not got your wits, you're going to become a target no matter who you are or where you are. >> Yeah. See, but what it is years ago in this day and age and when we were young, a lot of that people travelers used never used to rob people on the ice street. It was just like like I told you how the scams they used to do and scam them out of things, you know, it was just scams. And another one scam we used to do years ago. My great-grandfather would be in I park. He'd love this one. Do rugs. And then he'd sit there and a traveling man probably would be one of the cunninghams would pull up. Would you like to buy a rug, sir? Oh, hello sir. How are you? Yeah. Oh, what you got? Yes, I'll take them. Yes. Put them. Here's some money. No, I know where to deliver them. And he'd say the bloke, this bloke here, it I gets loads of rugs, pays for me trip in London. And I said all locals. So then they go to your house in York or cuz you know you had a banner house to sell five rugs to you. Then a bloke would be coming up to deliver something to your door and then oh, I'll buy some rugs off you. No, I'm I'm selling to this gentleman. is I'm a dealer. Uh I can't sell to you, but you can buy your rugs. So you'd end up buying a complete cart load of rugs off of him and thinking Andy. So I'm doing the short version. So you had them stuffed up your ass and didn't know how to get rid of them. But it was different scams there. But like today, it's the thieving on the streets, you know? It's not it's not it's not safe when you it's not safe anywhere today. What you thinking then when you hear you started hearing these stories? Were you g you must have been gripped in then sitting around the fire and people are telling these stories. I used to struggle between my grandfather's uh uh legs and he said, "What do you want to hear about?" And then um um there be um melus um that's me dad's grandfather's oldest boy and he go, "Show him the journals. Show him the journals." And um so there was journals read it as well. What? Old Andrew. And it was, you know, um >> was he documenting it? >> He documented it. >> Was he? Yeah, he documented all that in case what he what he documented it because if he thought he ever got caught, he could like go to I don't know the times or whatever, you know, and then you chuck that to him. He he might be safe, you know. So it was he was very fucking on it and it was he's on it. >> He he was born. You know what I'm saying? Not even back in the 1800s. He's still planning ahead. Listen, he's still taking a door. No matter what's happening, he's just want to earn. And it was documented just in case >> it was documented >> the shit hit the fan. >> Yeah. And uh >> because there was over 150 different tabloids back then. There was loads of them writing about this. Especially the Sherlock Holmes was like 1987 1887. So he was massive. All that fiction stuff. >> Yeah. It was all it was all docu. And he I I see I uh I see a little trunk that was in and um I know where the trunk went. And then when I was a young man and she always called me Casey cuz he said you don't let your left hand know what your right hand's doing. And uh and I used to go with my uncle Sam and you know when I used to ask him saying you know I'll be about 15 16 let's get the journals over. So as I was though my grandfather was dead then me the same he his name was Tubby he fight like a donkey kicking he was a very he was known for fighting a very very always fighting always fighting and he go I don't know if that was right Keith what grandfather told you then let's get him out so we get him he get him out and and I used to go to pictures on a Sunday me mommy's dropped me off there because the bus stop have Sunday dinner with me And and we'd sit there and mom said what was see pictures like Keith lovely mom don't tell your mother and we'd sit there to like cuz the back bus back from Mason when we were stopping at the time was like the last bus was like half past 7. So me mom would be back there to pick me up. So she knew back at 8 but I was there from 9:00 in the morning all that time. And yeah the same receipt. How much money you got you? I got a pound. I said you see it. And he give me 20 p. You know why? Cuz when mom knew I had the pound on, she knew I didn't go nowhere. Does that even down to that? They had the wits about him. But we used to sit for ages and and he go then he'd tell me things out out there. You know, grandad never told me that. And yeah, this is what Andrew read. You know what? He Yeah, I he was a nice old man, you know, and uh he killed himself at the finish. >> Who? >> Grandfather Andrew killed himself. >> Why? Did he lose his wife? >> No. No. Very tragic. So, um you're right. This is the next book. But >> how old how old was he? >> He was an old oldishly old man. But what happened? These three boys went to war. So my my grandfather Sam and Lawrence, my great-grandfather's three brother uh boys went to war in the first world war and he got three letters in the post back. Sorry boys missing an action and he was to carry a bag of surns and a a gold chain all the time and he was stopping at Belvadier and this flying scotchman was coming through. They said he took his his chain off, his money out, put him in the wagon, and I got a picture of me old his actual wagon when it was set a light and um put him there, wait for the flying scotch me to come and he stepped straight out in front of the train, committed suicide. And then fucking three days later, what happened? All three boys turned up. My grandfather had his foot blown off. Um his brother Lawrence uh got shot in the arm and the brother Sam got machine gun put it across there so they wasn't missing in action. He said I got to be with me boys. So he he he he killed himself to be with his boys and then his boys obviously end up carrying him to his grave. But he only killed himself he said I've done all this my life. He said looked after them and not one joined the army. They they actually got took cuz the the soldiers would come and take them. And my grandfather Togo was handcuffed to a a boat and went to France. >> Henry >> Henry and halfway through the bloke unc handcuffed himself jumping jumping everywhere. I handcuffed him and he said right Henry he said if you want to fuck off back New England he said you know I can't swim you can't so he did he fault inly in the in the first world war so that that I I I could talk to you all day about that >> that's tragic though for him to think but did he ever think then when he lost his three boys it could have been karma with all the shit that he done >> was that ever spoken about >> funny enough um I was told the same had the same story with um me uh Uncle Dolphie and me, Uncle Sam, uh about that. I said, I said, well, you know, do you I said when it was payback? He said, "No." He said, "Your great-grandfather never believed in payback." He said, he said, "It was just a He said he couldn't take it." He said he couldn't take it. He said his children was his life >> life in literally his life. You know, he another traveling man could smack his kids up the air roll doing something wrong. Wouldn't take no notice. He said, "But if a gorge man was down the road shouting him, he said he'd go down and burn his house out." So, he was a very family man, but he he loved his voice. He couldn't take it. And uh Mad Doy was there and he said he had his hands in his lap and old Caroline was in the wheelchair then. He said, "I can't take it." He said, "I got to go with me. I've got to go with me boys. I can't leave them on their own. I don't know where they are, he said, but I've got to be with He said, I've got to keep me boys safe. So, in his eyes, he was going to kill himself. And wherever them boys was, he's going to look after his kids. It's a silly way of looking at it. >> So, he killed himself to try and still be with his boys. >> Kill himself. >> And the boys have showed up. >> And the boys showed up. Three days out was >> Yeah. three days out was me obviously me great uh uh granny she was over the moon uh me granny Abby um I wouldn't say she was over the moon with him me grandfather Togo because he was he done 28 grand in a prostitute house one night he liked the woman and that was in his day he love he loved the woman he loved the woman but um but to come back and you've got three ladies sitting there all dressed in black with veils over them and you know granny every probably think Andy get someone got someone else you know got to play the part and then the bastard walks in the door >> that's mad >> that's mad that's mad that's mad that's abs >> so see all the books and everything was written are they still around then >> yeah they'll be worth fortunes not for sale >> yeah but They will be. >> No, >> they will be worth fortunes. Is that just a generational thing then? It just gets kept in the family. How many books? >> Um there's actually only the all about the war things like that. That's only in here. Well, the one Andrew one there's only a pile like that and like that all in and on the top right you used to put a smiley face >> and the top even she doesn't know that the top smiley face. So, every book I sign, you'll see I put a smiley face on the top right. So, I try to imitate what he's done. >> And um >> when did you realize how big the sort of story was and the book and Jack the Ripper? How when did you realize how big it was? >> James, I knew it all the time. But me grandfather said and um me um used to say, "Don't tell." And me uncle Sammy me uncle Dolby said for fuck's sake don't tell no one because if anybody finds out lot for the eye jump it it will we have you know pay back on it but life's changed like said don't today so we was kept under at [clears throat] and the reason why I done it is that lovely lady the left hand side she say shut the fuck up you make yourself look like a cunt don't tell no one and I thought one day I thought yeah I I thought know you know and when I used to have a few beers and I'd go to a funeral sit up with people then well Keith tell us that story cuz I'm the last of the storytellers does that make sense and I thought if I don't get this down and it's not put down from a different point of view you know and if I said something and it was at a funeral set up the night course, you know, we set up with the dead and me saying, "Go on, my baby. Tell them." And I'd say something and they'll all be around me. Cuz they found it interesting because I knew what these old men didn't know. And these old men, old old men, they say, "I remember that. I remember that. I remember that." So they'd start talking and come and listen to this boy. So, I'd say something and I get excited and I'd say an odd word or I say, "Oi, tell the fucking truth." Oh, sorry. So, I might change one word about it. How many people was in the room? Uh, there was 15 in the gang. How many? Uh, okay. I got say eight. There was eight. There was eight. He had eight in his gang. There was eight in his gang that they used to run with. So there was eight. So I was corrected. So I kept on as the years went on and um and I was renown to go to funerals, you know, when I walk into I used to go uh as put me in the coffin, look at the people in the coffin, check the you know, so I wasn't frightened to death. Other kids would be frightened of it. And I tell the stories over and over and over and over and over again. And [clears throat] and it it like I say, then I just tell people and then Carol stopped me telling me stories. >> How was it writing the book? Were you nervous? >> No, not a bit. I had um um Robert um you'll see his name on the back of the book. Um you know, he he helped me with it. And he read some paragraphs with me, you know, like to put it, you know, right? You know, Rob, that ain't right. Yeah, but Keith, I said, I don't give a fuck it was interesting or not. I want it my way. I want it done to the best of my ability, my way. So you can see it cuz you can, you know, where you so you can put what you like in. So I'm explain explain to you but we was in the room and you know you can see yeah there was oak beams and candle lits and 50 people in the room. Yeah I don't know that probably was in that. So he give he actually put the bits in the room where you say there wasn't a pub and there lot of people standing at the bar. Yeah there would have been people to stand in the bar and people bats probably was people standing. So the bits of the book like that, Robert put the bits in in the books like that so people would get the >> storytelling. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But what was said, that's what was said. >> Mhm. >> How was it fact checked? Who f fact checked it? Which is important for people because it has been fact checked. >> Yeah. >> Such a mad story. And that's why we don't give too much away today because we want people to buy the book, of course. But >> how was it fact checked? How did people go, "Yep, that's legit." We had um um a Jerry Sherard, a it car a Jerry Sherard and he was up in London and he literally he checked all the dates, every date, all the things where people was the murders where people were found and names that my grandfather um Andrew uh give to my grandfather. Um, so how would he know that piece of paper that I had had James on it? Hold on. That's right. James got killed on the 10th of December. Right. But uh he he was found on the 15th of January. So it was because obviously the body wasn't found straight away. So it was all cross-cheed. cross-cheed dates, everything cross-cheed had to be. And he and he was >> all the timings, all the dates, everything through a team with all the killings and >> Yeah. And all the So everything was cross uh cross referenced all the time, even up to London. Cost me a fortune in which he moaned at me, unreal over there, you know, she's going to kill me over that, but it cost me a fortune, James said. But the end of the day, you know, uh yes, life is about money. Sometimes this had to be put to rest. It had to be known to the world. It had to be done. So he was up in London and Carol said, "For fuck's sake, you're giving that man more fucking money again." When it [laughter] look, look how she's laughing. She knows the score on that one, doesn't she? So yes, it was it was [clears throat] it took uh Um done. >> When did the book come out? >> It was last December was it Carol? >> And what sort of publicity has it had so far? >> It's had a it's had a lot a lot. >> Have you been on a TV or anything yet? >> We I had offers from um the the BBC to go on a podcast uh with the BBC in Brighton. So that's where I I live. >> Yeah. >> Um a couple other people Jamesuh approached me, but do you know are you Billy the bullshitter? Do you know? And I thought I don't like you. If I don't like you, um and I, you know, I say I've had a couple of people that um directors and um a boat called Kent. He's made over 40 films and he um what's his name that done the free mini job? What's he called? The bloke with the free minis. What's his name? Michael Kane. >> He made lot of Italian job. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's made lots of deals and I've been offered to sit down with him. I talked to him on the phone. He sounds a proper prick. >> Does he? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and yeah. And he was saying to me, he said, "Your wagons, how are your wagons, Keith? I've seen them on the internet. I'd love to sell. How much you want for them?" Said, "They ain't for sale, mate. They're not for sale. They're not I will sell anything. I'll sell my granny." >> Yeah. >> But do you know my wife has got me some uh got me things. Money can't buy that. Money can't buy heirlooms. Some things are not for sale. You Oh, yes. Well, um, and he wanted he a new there's a film going on about Jesus, a film, and they wanted me to go on it, uh, to, um, some of the language, you know, cuz Travis was there at the crucifixion of Christ. So, it goes way way back. >> Same as Pinky Blinders. Bing. I want to say, let's Can I say hello to you? This is wrong. >> Mhm. >> RC too far too. Is that okay? Shake me hand. What does that mean, James? >> Cuz I ain't got the fuck. I don't know what the fuck that means. Don't know what the fuck that means at all. They put subtitles down and it was and I offered them if I you know to go on it. Well, again latch mal katcha. How are you my brother? So they got the language one and in the last one I so I I watched about two programs of Peggy Miners thought this is a load of bullshit. The only thing they got right was jook. So when they were sitting talking nothing and in the last one they done odd words but it wasn't the subtitles. It's such a shame they should have cost once again not cross residence that not got the right people should have got someone like me on board. You know, I would have been quite happy because no one speaks the language no more and we've we've got to document these things. James, do you agree? >> Yeah, of course. >> It has to be documented. So, we got to document everything >> or else it's forgotten. It is important to have books out because in a 100 years we're going to be forgotten anyway unless there's history there. Like my family's history is kind of all hazy now. You hear different stories, but you hear so many different stories. Everything you don't know. You don't know what's legit because nothing was documented. Do you know what I'm saying? So it's important to then if you want to keep the family history as documented. >> So you be polite to me, James. Will you be polite to me? >> Yeah. >> Just say to me, Graier, >> Graier, >> you just said to me, >> "Go fuck your mother." [laughter] >> So I learned my grandson the swear in Romanes. So no one understand it. But even down to you, you know. So as that was done, he wasn't documented. And it's very annoying to see from my point of view, you know, how things have gone so much, you know, >> changing it. >> It's changing down to basics. Yeah. It's changed so much. >> Where where does it go then with this? Was this man ever mentioned the killer beforehand? Was he ever a suspect? >> No. >> Where does Jack the Ripper Where does Jack the Ripper name come from, Jack? Where's that come from? >> Oh, sorry. Um, I saying I think that was social media. They just pull him up, you know, he's ripping pates up. >> Sounds good. >> Yeah. Um because um there were sacks and there was a sack felt. Did you know that? >> What sort of a sack that the organs were felt? Right. And what them sacks were used for was to put fish to transfer. and one of the sacks. And my great-grandfather was uh asked to go get one of the sacks. It's a famous shop in London. They used to get the sacks which was lined out so the fish wouldn't go off there. And he went and got the sack for the man to give to the man and they sent the sack to the police station with the organs in it. So it was all like put put together very very clear. But the name Jack the Ripper, I don't know where that I think it was just to chuck people out the thing. But so you got to understand when in all these streets, James, and we're all military men standing. We're looking after this bodyguard and this lovely lady, but we're paying Dormund who all jacked up on this. They think they can handle theself, but we want them to wear the people out first. And that's what it was about. It was just smoke and mirrors. No one could get in. >> So where does it go then the book? Where does it go? You talking a movie? We talking six part docky series. Like where does it go from here? Cuz if there's valuable information everybody's been trying to find for 100 years and you've cracked the code. >> Yeah. >> With the family history. Where does it go then? I'd imagine it's going to go a lot further than just a book. >> Yeah. Well, without being one chat wanted to do it in uh AI. >> Fuck that shit, man. Yeah. Yeah. I I didn't I didn't >> It takes away the quality, man. It takes away realness, rawness >> because like I know I know a few people if I what I've been pro I want to put people there myself. Um you know how to carry yourself, but can you talk like a traveling man? >> No. >> No, you fucking can't. You can't. You can't talk like a traveling man, but I want I would want people there that could play people's parts like a a good friend of mine for argument sake and you know him. He's nice lad and Peter Fury an absolutely >> he's a good guy. >> He's a Yeah. You know >> he's one of the best. >> Yeah. >> So yeah loyal to the core. >> He is that man's a gentleman. An absolute gentleman. So if I was gonna put someone to play a part, I'd get him to play my grandfather Togo >> because he cuz a conducting himself properly, knows how to speak, knows the language, you know, and pronounce it properly as my grandfather cuz he was brought up in our society and very pleased to meet you, you know, but he Peter wouldn't say like that to all my mate. How you keeping me, you know what I mean? How's your family? nails you. But he could portray the right people. >> Yeah, I've got a lot of time for Peter. >> Yeah. You know, >> fucking mad story as well, Peter. >> He's he Yeah. >> Yeah. I went I went up to his house, man. And Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. So, it was and um just a good guy. Just loyal to the core. We're still in contact from time to time, but just good guy. Just a good man. He's see Peter's family um his old mother was uh from London. They they were from London, you know, and they're the Wilsons, the Cunninghams. I know all them. Me, my um mom's brother, Kaye Botton, he was bare knuckle champion of Canada. You'll get a book called Bartley Gman. You heard Bartley Gman? Well, when you next see Peter, say I was talking to uh you can say your cousin key if you like and old Bartley Gman he that was one man. B, Uncle Bartley was an absolute the man was an an animal. He and he was he was the I would say in his day and even today Uncle Bartley he was one of the best known traveling man. Everybody had so much respect for him. Remember u my mom doing very very uh Uncle Bartley but very very nice. But that's what I'm saying. Um, but I get the right people to come to me too about it. Um, I supposed to as a company that I won't mention anybody's names. They want me to go to see them. No, you come to me. I'm here. I ain't running to you. You come to me. And you know, we can do this, do that. No, no, I don't suffer bullshit. Don't do bullshits, do you? No. >> I just want I want it done. I want it done properly. And they wanted to say, "Well, we would want to change things." No, we want to change places. No. If it stays a book on a shelf being covered in dust, so be it. But it's got to be done properly. It's got to feel >> and and you know and people that um that uh the songs we used to sing they I want the songs put on there that it's cuz I've written songs myself but I want them songs that I knew on it. Not what you want. I got a chap all the music for it. So all the music's all written for it which I've read with a couple other people that relate to it. So everything's there in place. But we got our own people. >> Fuck off, James. >> Yeah, you've got to stand your ground. >> Yeah, that's So, >> you don't mind what you've done with the book is put the truths in it and he's maybe set other fluffed up a little bit for the story, you know, but same as with the the movie stuff. If you want your actors and the music, you can have it in. Yes, they can add little bits here and there, but you just want whatever you've got in your mind to be put in the story and the truth. >> That's what I'm saying. >> But they change it. Hollywood changes that. Fucking media changes. But the officer, oh, you know, we would change. Straight away, conversation over, James, I'm out here and I get up and walk away. I'm not interested. It It's got to be done so people see it from a total different angle. It's a different angle. It's an inside angle. So, it's a total different angle, you know. And I got the wagon up there. One of the wagons that one of the original wagons uh that me grandfather and that used to be in, you know, uh would I sell them? No. Do we rent them out? Yeah, it goes to charity, you know, because we do a lot of charity for different people. But the end of the day, you got to keep things close. >> Yeah, you've got to stay loyal. But the even the story of Andrew and Caroline, your great-grandparents story themselves as being the Bonnie and Clyde and all the scams is a seller in itself. Throwing the Jack the Ripper stuff is gold. You know, there's you've got to stand your ground. You've got to value your worth because people will change the story. There's many films of Jack the Ripper. There's many books. There's many documentaries. But but when I used to watch the films of Jack the Ripper, you know, going on, I know the Sherlock Holmes was made and I used to laugh so much. I could, you know, uh, picture me my grandfather, Togo. >> Were they ever mentioned? Were they ever mentioned at all the traveling community within the Jack the Ripper stuff? Never. >> Was anybody standing in alleyways or >> Well, well, if you see, you see people standing alleyways like Cloak and Dagger. You used to see that, but they were in them alleyways all the time, you know. Um, and my grandfather, uh, old togo, which means soup, by the way. He was always togged up to the nines. And he was there. He he was actually there cuz he just watch cuz he'd see marks when they were playing darts, you know. So, it was a family. It was a family affair. Everything was a family affair. They brought everybody along. So if anybody was getting um so I've just beat the shit out of you or you beat the shit out of me. Doesn't matter who's had the iding. But you know if the old bills come running in of course straight away I've got my lady wife on my arm and walking along with my young son. Well that can't be the man. That's Have you seen no children? So they would have took the children with them and the wives as well purposely cuz there a back door to get out of. Does that make sense, James? Does make a lot of sense, doesn't it? >> Yeah. They knew the streets like the back of their hand. >> Yeah. >> They owned the streets. It was a world within a world. >> Exactly what you just said. They did own the streets. They owned all the streets. >> Um and travelers were very very clever people. We have lost that cleverness today. Um, >> why do you think that is? >> Because the traveling community in the UK is is dwindling down. It's non-existent now. >> The older boys are still there and the families still there. >> You know, I pull up the people and I walk straight up and it's a shame young boys today, a lot of them don't call me uncle no more. >> No respect. >> I just think it's because they don't they've not been taught that. Everything's dwindling. >> I think I don't know what it is. James, >> how do you think that is? Why do you think How do you think the traveling community is in the UK? Um, 90% are nice people, but you they just I've got lots of cousins. I was at a funeral one day. This gives you an example. Imagine being at a funeral. Now you're cousin James, right? Your boy's there. Your boy's name's James. So I walk up, grab your hand, kiss you on the cheek. Alan, James, how how are you? How's your mother and father? I ain't seen you for years. Mother's dead. Sorry to hear that. to plan a story. Your boy is there, James. Uh, and I go I go, "Is that your boy?" "Yeah, James, come over and say hello to Uncle Keith." Boy comes out. Very pleased to meet you, Uncle Keith. I went, "Get up, Ukraine." Yeah. So on. So straight away he's changing. So I said, "Are you a big man?" I said, "You don't understand that. What? What do you mean? Uh, are you married? I said, "Go away, James. Don't he know nothing?" He said, "Keith, he's married an old gorge girl." He said, "Got a lovely grandchildren." He went, "Uh, yes, but I said, "So, what do you do? Better calling my James, you know." >> Mhm. >> He went, "No, I'm team leader for Tesco's." I said, "Please go fuck away from me." So, you know, he's and his dad was embarrassed the way he was talking. And that's was that the dad's fault though? >> Well, no. It's cuz they've settled down and my grandkids uh they play with your kids, you know, gorgeous. And he has his kids over then his mates over and we're only too pleased. And but when it's Applebe Fair, my grandson's up at Applebe Fair, you know, with his own kind. You've got you have to respect everybody around you, James. But you get it so you don't want your children, you don't let your children go anywhere. You know, my daughter, she wouldn't allowed that on her own. But my cousins, because they've been brought up in houses, they let the children run with your kind. >> Yeah. My daughter likes the same. My daughter, I'm very protective of my daughter. My sons and they do Muay Thai. My nephew, young Carter, he's under champion. They're always scrum. They've always fought with each other. And sometimes you think fucking stop. But then again, listen, it's good for them as well. It toughens them up. My son, he's doing UFC. My young cat, he's under 16 champion boxer. Like, you do feel proud of them. But >> there's fucking hard work. But you've got to let them bees. We've got to let kids be kids because this is a dog eats world out here. And if you become soft, you're going to get chewed up and spat out. >> I agree with you. But James, at the end of the day, we still got to learn. Um, but with the traveling boys today is it you pull up in a Rolls-Royce, they're over you like a rash. >> Yeah, of course. >> Pull up in a Bentley over you like a rash. But next week, pull up in an old Land Rover cuz you you haven't got there are more, you know. Uh, oh, that's a Chanel bag. That's a Rolex watch. that is a Gucci. I don't know the more market. >> Do you know what I'm saying? >> But it's an easy selling point. It's easy to brainwash people. >> Anybody can get a lease car. People can wear pair of oxes and people will still be how did you get that? I don't mean fuck all. It doesn't make them. >> James, let me tell you something. My wife's got lovely bags and I will say that and my wife I'm very proud of her because if she goes anywhere and we was out with you and your misses and she didn't know your Mrs. and she know your MS didn't have a a Chanel bag or whatever bag it is. My wife would go to the shop, buy a loaf of bread, chuck the loaf of bread out and chuck her bag in a Tesco bag and put it cuz she she Carol you never been like that, have you? She won't show out. She she wouldn't show to people to make you feel >> small >> uneasy. >> Yeah. >> And and that's >> And people do. >> Yeah. And and Carol's a very traditional traveling woman, you know. Go everywhere we go. You see who she is. But she she'll never put anybody down. Always got a good word for everybody. And she'll try to be nice. >> Yeah. But there's no tradition anymore. Not just the travel community, but any community. That's why divorce rates through the roof. That's why every everyone's struggling. You don't get married. My mom and dad were married at 17. Well, I featured her for 30s 6 years before my dad's pads and God bless him. But there's no tradition anymore. Everything's confusing. There's no that women want to be masculine now. And the men are becoming more feminine. Roles have reversed. Men are becoming so James pull up there. Pull up rain up boy. >> Every woman, everybody behind every man is a better woman. They always say that. You trying to get me in trouble with the wife. Yeah. [laughter] But I always say the the universe revolves around women. Women are the salt of the earth. The way they can carry a baby, the way they nurture, the way they love. And people talk about men being protectors, but have you ever seen a woman protect her kids? Have you ever seen how far a woman goes? Women could kill just as easy as the man. >> Yeah. >> And men are vulnerable. We're vulnerable. We don't fucking speak about our emotions and feelings and all that shit. >> Unfortunately, let me tell you what I got in life. Um, you know, what I have got in life, I'm very well breached. But people will look at me and it's annoying. It does annoy me and they go, "He got that." But if it wasn't for my lady wife, we wouldn't have had that. Do you know what I'm saying? She was the one that took the money, put a pin in it, and put it in the cupboard, so to speak. She saved it. if it wouldn't for the the wife of the family, you know, got odd people that but everything that we've got, I got to thank my lady wife for because she's been behind me all the way, you know. And she said, she let me run. She let me go. And then she said, Keith told you not to do that. Should have done that. So I listened. You got to stand back and listen sometimes, James. And this is all the community. every community, they have to stand back, pull the handbrake up, think, don't keep running all the time. You have to pull back and think of everybody. It's just not you today. It's everybody around you. And this is why um I like to keep to my We had my niece over yesterday and Steve's uh is he tie Carol? >> And funny good story. This is me brother Lawrence rings me up. He said, "Keith," he said, "Kelly's got a a gorge chabby." I go, "Wait, you crank tell me what you think. Invite him over." They're coming over Sunday lunch. He said, "If you don't like him, beat him off out of it." So, I've got in me mind that this boy is going to walk in the door and I'm going to backhand him up the road because I don't want him to be on me niece. Good point. >> Yeah, >> cuz me your brother's already paid. So I said, "Why are you No, I want your advice, Laur." I said, "All right, Lawrence." So he names, everybody calls him Lally, but I'm the only one who calls him Lawrence. Fuck me, James. He's got the motor. He's your wife. Fuck a pair of shoulders like that. He's a personal trainer, personal bodyguard, and a kickboxer. I'm I'm fucked. I'm proper fucked to you now. And he looked at me, he said, "Uh, what do I call you?" >> He said, "I'm not a traveler." I said, "Well, you know," and he's tired. You can see he's tired, but and he's just um diagnosed with cancer. Just got over it. F touch with thank god for that. >> And he said, "I call you sir, >> uh Keith or uncle Keith." He said, "So, what do I call you?" I said, "Don't be brazen." I said, "If you're coming, I talked to him straight away." And he got lovely kids and they go absolutely lovely lovely kids and was there. Yes. He still called. So if you got that 100 years ago or 50 years ago, my niece would have had to left the country. >> Mhm. >> To be with this fellow. >> He's any cow. He's so good. He's And I'm so proud of him. So proud of him. So proud of him. >> Did they get in? Did they is he adapted okay to the sort of family >> any good? He's Oh, I'm telling you, he's really good. And um he's uh >> Yeah. You want a >> but don't cut him up in a motor. >> Mhm. >> Cuz my niece, they say she takes after me cuz um I'm every year I seem to get locked up. I don't know why. Do you know what I mean? [laughter] I'm all I don't I don't take shit. I just backhand them. You know what I mean? And uh the other day he said that Lenny was talking to me. He's this is the the boy. He's the son Lenny. Lovely very sweat but he's I ain't just saying it. He's handsome. He is looks what I wish I was looking at him. He said uncle Keith he said these cranky cunts here man's cut us up. He should have caused him for an half an hour in the motor. End up swinging jumping at the motor [laughter] and uh what's the name? Roma Roma, she does this boxing. She's very good at it. She go, >> she's a very good boxer. And she slid across the bonnet like starting arch ripped the woman out the car. No, no, we don't want to trouble. And and she said, "Uncle Keith, I take after you." I said, "No, you take after but but he's he's nice." And he go such a lovely and I'm so proud. But years ago when I first met him, I thought got to hit this boy with a bar bar of arms because I ain't going to put this boy down. But it's nice. So that's what I'm saying, James, how it's changed and it's going down so fast and there's only likes of likes of Peter I can say um that he's kept what he is like me. Tony Barney another one in cow um he's another one very nice uh very his wife's lovely people not Patty doy is another one man's a gentleman an absolute gentleman cuz oh >> I don't understand what he says >> yeah well story me and Paddyy I story about me and Paddyy I was at Epson one day the boy said go at the top and have a beer so I'm walking along thinking Let me see. I've walked in this pub and it's packed full of Irish travelers. So, I've walked in there and everybody's looking at me. So, I walked to the bar and uh I thought I got an Iden here now. I've got an Iden. So, I walked up to um Patty Doy's dad, but I've seen the old man before. Walked. I said, "Hello, uncle. How are you?" He said, "Uh, lovely my boy." I said, he said, "I say, how's how you keeping, chatting to him, sit down, sit down." So, straight off cuz all the fells is approaching me. So, they they wanted to take me outside and give me a beating. You o see my nephew here. Obviously, no relation. >> Mhm. >> This man can sing. So, he said, "Go on, give us all motors." So, I sing traditional traveler songs and I started singing. I thought, "Thank you, Uncle." [laughter] And he saved me getting the beating that day. And I see Patty a couple of times afterwards, but I ain't seen him for for years. But still a still fighting as well. They're still Do you not think there should be not a cut off to a degree, but do you not think there should be more respect on the elders once they maybe go past late 50s, 60s to go stop calling people out because these people are still calling him out? Some of them I I have to say Peter doesn't do it. Patty doesn't do it. Um it's just that sometimes they get a young man. Come on. Uh James, look at the size of you. Look at the size of me. You know, you look like you in hand. But it's like my son-in-law walks in here. He's, you know, he's 30 year old, mate. Built like a shit house in your day. You wipe the floor of him. But you ain't that man. This is the saying and he's picking on you. So what do you do? >> You have to stay in your ground, James. You've got to put your hands up. You you you know you're not let anybody hit you. But how many times have you been hit, >> you know, and someone stopped the fire? You fuck the fuck that cuz you know you going to get annoyed, but you got stung or vice versa. And that's what it was. A lot of the a lot of the boys they they get, you know, years ago they wouldn't do it. How was it when Paddy went in Big Brother? >> How was that in the community? Because he was loved. People loved him. I think it done a lot for the community. But how was it? How was he treated inside that when he went on TV? >> What if you mean the Travelers? >> Yeah. >> What thought of him? >> Because in Big Brother, didn't he? >> Yeah, he went in Big Brother. But tell me the angle what you're saying on that one, James. >> Yeah, because obviously a lot of people don't speak out in the Travelers like the mafia and stuff. Nobody speaks out at school, but he was going on there just kind of being himself and >> is it >> and because people were scared of the travelers community. People are still wary. Not so much now because it's not as >> as big and popular. Impossible we from we had the trap and there was a park. Impossible was fucking wild. Yeah. Nobody dared to go in there though, you know, and we didn't fucking care. Like older boys, whatever. Everybody was always at the thieven. So, but you just would never go there. >> We knew. But with Paddyy and stuff like speaking out and doing big brother and fame, you never really had anyone at the forefront or on media. >> He actually done I would say car done a lot for the community. >> Positive. >> Yeah. And it was it then looked at people people looked at us at a different uh aspect. >> Yeah. >> Like yesterday I had a issue yesterday. So this is a real issue yesterday. And uh the campsite I got camping up in the in Oxford. It's just around the corner from Jerry Carson's place and it's we're we're rammed all the time. Absolutely rammed all the time. We got some people from Manchester with a couple of rockfallers turned up yesterday and they they bit boo booked through a booking agency, not with us. I got a lovely manager up there. But when you book for an agency, they put you on different bays. Well, of course, cuz you booked one night, then you booked another night, you booked another night. that pitch that you're on, it's like a hotel room that's booked out tomorrow night, so you got to move your pitch. But these lads and he said, "Ke," he said, "Be like grills." He said, "They really are men." He said, "Ke, I've called the police on them." I said, "Please, please." So with that, the police show up like this is yesterday. It was so funny. Will it go? So funny. They wouldn't go. This is a police officer. He said, "You do realize what who you're living on, where you're living on." Said, "What do you mean?" He said, "Well, you're camping on." He said, "It's Keith Don." He said, "He do bad knuckling. He's got a book out." He said, "He's on the way with free van loads." But cuz I said, "If I got to come up there, I'll bring a few boys up there." I said, "And they're going to be pulled off. It ain't going to go nice. So I said, "But just tell the boys, please. We don't want it." Well, he's there. The police early cuz I would have said it over the phone. So the police went up there. He said, "If you don't go tonight," he said, "they're on the way." He said, Anyway, the boys got on the phone. They folded like cards. Hello, mate. How are Danny my manager come? He said, Keith, he said, these lads, he said, they were so violent to me. He said, come up. He said, "I see him take your words folded and he says like a deck of cards." He because they realize because if we if we would have done it, it would have gone south. Unfortunately, we would have done the business first. It's bad be saying that makes me but we don't often go like that. But let's do the duty first and say sorry afterwards, you know. So, but why do people like that? only to stand in but they were smoking my we me and my wife 42 years you know I'll have a fag I'll have a cigar she slap me out the back of the head when she sees me smoking but I've never took drugs our generation we never but this is what is changing you know you you're on my campsite say James excuse me I'll go down to the layby in the road smoke that or get out my gate there's lovely family they don't need it. This is what I'm saying. This is how things are changing. But no, getting back to Paddyy. Yeah, he done a very very a tremendous amount for the uh community. I wish he'd um and there's another band which we ain't going to mention his names. That's not doing so well for the community, you know, but he Yeah, he's he's a role model. The man's a I'm surprised you haven't done a a podcast. >> Yeah, I was supposed to. There was a BO event six, seven years ago we were at and he was there and I was introduced to him, man. Lovely man. And I always rated him on the TV and that anyway, but yeah, I think he's only maybe done one or two interviews, podcasts and stuff, but yeah, I would happy have him on. Like for me, he's he's done well for himself [clears throat] and he could scrap as well. >> He could fucking have a dash. >> Yeah. >> Bad he could fight. >> Yeah. But we don't He was like punching a brick wall. >> Everybody that I know >> hands Have you seen his hands? >> He's be hands. >> Yeah. He's got big. He got He got my hands. I got big hands. Massive. But he's a big hand. But the man can land himself. He knows how to do. He can take a punch and he can dodge a punch. But he is an ab You don't hear the man swear. The man's respectful around everybody. The man is an absolute gentleman. Uh and like I say, he's brought it to light for everybody and brought the nice points. But you got to understand, James, from my point of view, I got arrested last year again, right? Do you want to hear a laugh? Do you want to hear a laugh? Do you want to hear it? Do you want Do you want to hear it? >> Now, um I don't suffer people too much. I'll try to talk to you and then she know she'll tell you then I'll just knock you out. I can't. Yeah, you're gonna get knocked out. So she said, "Keith, you're getting old. Don't do it. So, oh, I I'll try to cut down all the bits on it, but here's here's the factor of it. Here's the fact of it. He's dog running about my caravan park and we say if you dog runs about in the park, it poos on the park. You pay a fine of £25, but you pay it to a charity and I don't want you£25. So you get a charity to email us. James has donated£25. So come on James, I don't want you 25 pounds. The dog shit and shit and shit shit shit shit shit shit shit. And what the customers show them and everybody comes to our park. We tell them we're travelers. They go, "Wow, electric gates. It is beautiful. James, come down, please. You're welcome. Come down. The highest standard you could think is walk like walking into the cleanest gay community. My wife has flowers in it. It's beautiful. So anyway, the dog's running about. We give him a letter. I give him a letter. I give him a letter. Pussing on it. The last letter I give him, he put down the back of his trousers, wiped his ass with it, and threw it in me face. But I'm with customers. Come out and told Carol. Yeah. Cal said I said but I said next time your dog craps on my place I said I'm taking out the road and tying it to a tree. I sorry James this is not going to go down nice with a lot of you podcasters. So the dog done it. So got the dog by thinking feet for dancing. So I go at my gate got cameras up. So everything's camera every docu documented you know. So you can't go on there and the old bill comes. They can look at the camera so they can see what's going on. So I went up the road, tied in to a fence, waved to the camera, give the dog a bowl of water. You know, it's tied to the fence. Dog's all right. So I rung him up. I'm lucky. I said, "When he comes back, I want to knock his mother out of him." My lovely wife, Keith, too old. Leave it. Leave it. Leave it. She said, "Be clever. Be like the gorgees. Bring the gathers up or police, you know, marshals, mingries, whatever you like to call them." So I thought, "Yeah, the police has already been rung. He's rung the police." So thought I thought, "No, I can't leave him out, can I? He's pretty cold. He picked up a rock like this, James, and he's throwing it. I had a new, you know, the new Spectras >> and he's throwing it on the bonnet of Spectra. So I grabbed it. Grabbed it off. I thought, all on camera. All on camera. Put it to one side. I thought I can't hit this boy. Can't hit him. And he's a kickboxer. Oh, that don't mate. But anyway, the police come Free riot vans with the cow. >> Yeah, >> free riot vans. Free police cars, you know. All come. James, who did he arrest? >> Yeah. Me. They arrested me. But the dog jumped so much he choked himself >> and died. >> And died. But he told the police I shot the dog. >> Oh, he says you killed the dog. >> Yeah. No. Shot the dog. So they came arrest arrested me. He's up the top of the park. I thought well I'll come out. He's got to have it. They put an injection on on me on my own land that I couldn't go up to the top of the park. Thought this is Andy the um and I said well the dog is it only I was in it. They had me for 24 hours in the cow. James is about this is racist. You know in the sales I didn't take that. I got a good sim. So all these people watching here think of old uncle Keith. I ripped the button off shirt got the toilet paper. I always do it. You know it's me next bed and breakfast. I scratched the chest set on the floor right and then ripped some p toilet paper up playing chess. Go see a couple walks and he said what are you doing? I said excuse me I'm playing chess. sit on the floor cuz she knows I sit on the floor. It's unusual for me to sit on and sit on the floor. He said, "I can arrest you for that." I went, "Silly cunt. I fucking arrest him. Fuck off." He said, "You got an interview at uh 4 later today." I said, "I need a time." He went, "What do you mean?" I said, "No, I need a time. I need appointment. I'm playing chess, mate." So he got alive 4:00 10 4 come and he I said sorry mate you were near for your appointment he said but do you want I said no no no you told me 4:00 it's now 10 make another appointment I said cuz when I get in that room you know that bar on the wall I'm going to hit it I said I know the score so I I do play up but I was there 24 hours every sale across the front of me and the side of me Jane Bill Harry was in it. We've got a menu here. What would you like for lunch? What would you like for tea? What? They never gave me a fucking glass of water. Not a fucking glass of But you're from the traveling community. So fucking what? I deserve the So that's what you call bad. >> And I was on bail for a long count. >> I was on bail for a long long, you know, police bail. >> Yeah. A couple of years on it. Yeah. No, only six months would count. And it's it gets funnier now. It gets funnier. It does get even more funnier. They only had to take the man's closed circuit TV. So I said, "Well, where's the autopsy on the dog?" They didn't do an autopsy on the dog. And then finally came back to me. Kept on coming in the middle of the night, didn't they? Getting me out of bed, you know. Um they didn't do the autopsy, prove I didn't do it. And then they come sat on the wall. He said, "Keith, all the allegations he done against you is total lies. um would you like to press charges on him? Why don't I want to press charges on him? I said no one press charges on him. He said, "But everything you said was lies." He said, "We proved." I said, "Well, why you?" He said, "Well, you are travelers. You're known to the police." I said, "But was known." He says, "So what do you want to?" I said, "No, don't want to press charges." I said, he said, "Why is that?" I said, "His caravans up the top." He give 95 grand for his caravan. So nothing like honesty. I rung him up and I bid him 12 grand for it. >> Oh, w that. So I got his caravan off him for 12 grand and then sold it for 95. [laughter] So it was a bonus. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So there's no win. But change, we ain't the people that people think we are. And via this book, I think it will make people understand what today's society is and help people to come and talk to us and you know at the Cotswwells everybody coming into my park in the Cotswwells Cotswwell's camping everybody come there we've got so much repeat people cuz they love the wagons every go they remember Carol she's and they all say she's a proper pikey they don't mean no ar We don't we don't we don't mind. And all our customers know we're travelers and they love it because I sit with my customers and I got time for all of them. I didn't know that, Keith. I didn't know that, Keith. And then some of my customers turn up there and a little boy comes to me. Keith, it's my birthday. Put me in your me pocket, give him a score. >> You don't do that. You This is what you got to do. It's tradition, >> James. >> How you feeling today, brother? >> We ain't fighting today, are we? >> No. [laughter] It's Sunday, bro. It's the day of >> Sunday. Yeah. No, good day. Nice chat to you to be frank with you. Yeah. Thanks for having me on board. I hope I hope you um enjoyed it. But get that uh appointment with Patty cuz >> Yeah, definitely, brother. >> Yeah, Keith. But listen, it's an absolute pleasure for coming on a day. For people go and buy the book, it's a great read and it's very fascinating. Hopefully, you can turn that into a movie and yeah, listen, I wish you all the best for the future. God bless. God bless. Take care.