IWA Webinar - Guardians of Water: Indigenous Women as Knowledge Holders and Stewards

Well, welcome everyone to this webinar, Guardians of Water, Indigenous Women as Knowledge Holders and Stewards. My name is Dr. Analisa Ktos and I will be facilitating this session and I'm really excited to be bringing this webinar uh and running it. Across the world, indigenous women have long acted as custodians, protectors, and knowledge holders of water systems. Their cultural, ecological, and spiritual knowledge contributes to sustainable water government governance, ecosystem stewardish, community resilience, and climate adaptation. Yet, indigenous women's voices remain under reppresented in water policy, infrastructure planning, and scientific discourse. Today we have three um amazing women from across the globe who will be speaking to us and bringing their experience as indigenous women and knowledge holders um and sharing with us how we can learn from their knowledge and bring that into our practice. Uh if we could jump to the next slide please. So just the a couple of housekeeping rules. It the webinar will be recorded and it will be made available on demand. Um and the speakers are responsible for securing their copyright permissions. Um if they're not the legal copyright holder and um the opinions that they're sharing are the responsibilities of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect IWA. Next slide. uh as you are using the um if you want to interact with us and we certainly hope that you do uh please use the chat box for uh general requests and for interactive activities. We can't respond to the raised hand uh but if you want to send questions to the panelists and we do have a session uh during the webinar uh please use the Q&A box for that. So this is the agenda that we will be having. Uh and as I mentioned, we have three amazing speakers. Uh and then we'll have a panel discussion and Q&A. Um so um to just to kick off, so I might get you to put that slide uh down because we'll go to Valkyrie in just a minute. Um but to just to kick off uh before we start hearing from our speakers, I would like to acknowledge country which is something that we do in Australia uh that recognizes that um the Aboriginals have been on in Australia for tens of thousands of years. So I would like to uh acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands on which we meet um all all around the world and I would like to pay my respects to elders past and present and to the youth of today who will be the elders of tomorrow and I would like to extend that respect to all first nations people and indigenous people who are joining us today. I am joining today from Camaragel country uh which is um part of the Sydney metropolitan area. Uh but I had the great opportunity last week to be out on um Camilaroy and NMA country and um there'll be some photographs in Vanessa's presentation from that country. Um so our first speaker today will be Valazu Baba from the Mamboro finale pastoralist indigenous community of Cameroon. She has been working for the protection and promotion of the rights of indigenous people for more than 15 years. She's the founder and president of the Indigenous People's and Sustainable Development Association and the vice national coordinator of the network for indigenous people and local communities for sustainable management of forest ecosystems in central Africa. and she's going to be speaking to us today on um the indigenous women and water stewardship looking at the historical and temporary ro contemporary role of indigenous women. So Balky if you would like to turn on your camera and mic and um join us for the webinar. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Uh good afternoon from Mongolia for the top 17. So as ana said the buru pastoralist community I work for the network of indigenous people and local communities for sustainable management for systems in central Africa. I'm also the president of indigenous and sustainable assoc. So today we'll be talking about indigenous women and water stewardship. I will look at uh the first thing I will try to look at in my presentation is uh when we talk about uh when we talk about what does what mean to my community and how is it passed from generations to generations for us in the boro pastoralist community and other indigenous communities in Africa for example just to highlight that we have diverse communities in Africa we have people coming from the forest communities who are hunter gatherers and fisher folks and we equally have people coming from pastoralist communities. We have people from fishing communities. We have people from diverse backgrounds and water for us means life because without water there is no life. Look at water as very very central life. The indigenous people we treat water as life as not only as life but as a living relative. So we do a very good care of the water because we know the water is like a living relative and we want to do everything to secure this water because it is a sacred foundation of life identity and culture because most of the things we do around our culture, our identity and our way of life is found in water. For example, in the community households, what we use is we use water. We use water to drink. We use water to do almost everything that we do during the day. So without water, there will be no food. Without water there will be longer. Without water there will be so many problems in the community. People will not be able to wash their clothes. People will not be able to do traditional rituals. There are many rituals that we do with water. So our identity as indigenous people is really tied to that water. For example, like the fishing communities, they fish only in the water. That's where they have their fish. And then they have thisational ritual in one of the indigenous communities in Canon, the forest communities. They have to initiate women at certain stage when they they grow up in singing clubs. So for them to be very good singers, they have to use a certain fish called the fish. And that fish is found in water. So if you cannot get that fish, it means you cannot be able to do that cultural initiative. they sing they sing in calls and so on. There are many cultural aspects that we do with water. So water is equally not only a living entity but it also possess spirits spiritual water is spiritual in the indigenous community because we use it to carry out lot of spiritual activities like cleansing activities. use water when there are people even people are ill we use water to prepare the medicines that they drink and not only that water having spirit it has both negative spirits and positive spirits that is why in the indigenous communities you see that there are certain times when people can go to the stream and fetch water for example in my community we cannot fetch water midday we cannot fetch water very early in the morning and then we cannot fetch water in the night because we believe that at night and at midday Okay, that's when the spirits they come around to come and restore the water. They come to clean the water. So it's not good for the humans to be there because most often when they you as a human being go to the extreme in the night most often you can fall sick can have different problems. Some of them they even have some illnesses like that like as if they are man because they went to the liver in the night. So water is highly spiritual for us. We also care for water not just through the physical knowledge we carry with the spiritual knowledge and this knowledge we carry it from generation to generation. Then water is also representing interconnectedness because water is connected. It is connected in a holistic perspective. We have like the rivers, the lakes, the rain and everything. They are linked to our territories. They are linked to our lands. They are linked to our biodiversity, our human activities as well as our community. Because when we have these things that are interlin without water, without the rain, we will not have our crops to grow. We will not have our food that we hunt and gathering in the bush to get the gathering the food cannot have water that can water the soil. We cannot have water that can do many things in the community. So it is interconnected. Our biodiversity survives because of water. when there is rain and so on, we have plants that grow. We have certain species of plants that grow well and we can use those species of plants. For example, in our community where we use traditional medicines, we use h plants to do traditional medicines. We use plants to do vetinary medicines in our pastoralist communities. We use plants that we prepare as herbs, put in water and give our cattle and other livestock drink. So water is so interconnected with all the things that we do in our community. Apart from that, it has been always been a kind of intergenerational responsibility that we have to not only care for the water but we have to transmit also this knowledge from generation to generation. We have been transmitting this knowledge to our younger ones. For example, you see in the community transmitted from homes. This transmission of this knowledge starts from homes. The mother when going to the stream will always carry the daughters so that the daughters can go and see what she's doing in the stream how she's carrying the water because even the way they carry water they don't just carry water anyhow there is a way they carry water show them how to carry water and then we have traditional conservation practices that we do to make sure that our water is always clean it's always safe is always good and then it doesn't dry off because with the advent of climate change water scarcity has been increasing our waters have been drying off so we have that indigenous knowledge that they have been practicing to make sure that we skip the water so that the water should not completely. So most often it is done by indigenous women and when these women are going to do these practices they always carry their daughters go and show them that okay this is what we do this is how we do it and the daughters they copy. Another thing we have been encouraging now is intergenerational dialogues between the community members and the young people in the community so that people who don't have time to learn maybe in the family or they have other things that are occupying them. They can have that intergenerational platform where they can transmit that knowledge from one generation to the other because the water is here to serve not only this present generation. it is equally here to serve our future generations. So there are some uh approaches that we have been using like when we realize the water is reducing we can we can go to the stream we clean we dig a bit inside the water we can analyze it more better especially maybe after rain come and then the dirty the stream the place is full and so on that we use traditionally where we clean the water make sure the water continues running and then the boat goes away and we have clean water that we can always drink. The only thing now we are crying is this climate change and some challenges that have disturbing our our our water in our community. Then another thing is indigenous people they have a decentralized way of managing water. Management of water is not a single responsibility of one person. There are many people who manage the water in the community is known they have like a small committee. That committee they know that these are the women who are in charge of the water. These are the women who will take care of the water. These are the women who will do the maybe they want to plant some some some trees around the water and so on. So most often the decentralized way of carrying water doing things and everything managing the water is done in a system the governance system that is known in the community and mostly headed by women. The men should also contribute to be taking care of the water. For example, in my community, we have the pastoralist people who use carry the house to go and give the water in the rivers, in the streams and so on. So they have a particular time. They don't just go there at any time. They have a way they manage it. They they go from they have this the hours they know the hours that they supposed to carry the cattle to the stream. They know that the women are supposed to be maybe washing dresses at this time. Then at this time there's time for the cattle to come and drink. So the management system is done in a very organized way and this eological knowledge we're transmitting it to the younger generations. So the things we have now as challenges as we as said is climate change and then our ecological knowledge is not really recognized and respected because people see it indigenous knowledge knowledge knowledge that is not scientific knowledge that cannot be tested and so on. So it's a big challenge and this knowledge has not been integrated into policies when it comes to policies of climate action, water management and so on. it has not been. So my recommendations is for for us to look at ways that we can combine indigenous knowledge, indigenous world views and science, how to improve management. And then we also look at how we involve women in decision making because we look at it critically. Most of these works around water is done by women. Highest people who use water are women. But the problem is these women. They are not involved in decision making. women and if they're not involved in decision making spaces where they can take then we also have to continue encouraging intergenerational transfer of knowledge so that this knowledge can continue to survive. This knowledge can continue to be there. We can use it today, we can use it tomorrow and we can use it our generation because nowadays we have this issue of erosion of traditional knowledge. Traditional being lost especially with young people who maybe leave the communities and then they go to the cities to go and study. They go they leave many in the cities and they never come back. Some of them go even when they come back they tell them that no the world has changed. They don't want to do this traditional things and so on. So it becomes very very difficult knowledge transition. So those are some of the ideas I have to share with you concerning indigenous men. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much Falky. I think you've raised um a number of themes that will will run through our session today. Uh and I I'm sure we'll hear from um Vanessa and Loretta as well about how water is so related to life and connected. And again, we'll we'll talk more about the the challenges around that intergenerational transfer of knowledge and also how we're combining indigenous knowledge with science as well. So, I think there's you've raised a lot of ideas for us to think through as this webinar um continues. Um, if we could get the next the slide deck back up again and I'll ask Vanessa to join us for the next presentation. >> So, Vanessa, are you able to put your camera and mic on? Thanks. >> Yep. Just trying it now. It's taking a while. Okay. All right. So, yeah. So, I'll just I'll just introduce you first actually uh and then say next slide as you go. Um so, Vanessa is a proud uh First Nations woman from Australia and uh I had the privilege of meeting her when we did the connection to country program. uh her identity, leadership and advocacy is deeply grounded in cultural knowledge, responsibilities, and enduring connection to country that have been passed down through her ancestors for more than 65,000 years. She's a passionate advocate for the protection of country, waterways, culture, and the rights of First Nations people. She believes that caring for land and water is not only an environmental responsibility but also a cultural, spiritual, and intergenerational obligation. And so she's going to speak to us today about cultural water in practice and what caring for country means and how important that is. So over to you, Vanessa. >> Hello everybody. My name is Vanessa Cook and um I just for thousands of years um I've I've wanted to learn more about my culture and what the um ancestors done back in the day of um the river is it connects with me because of um they used to have birth trees and it's called they called ring trees um so each so each section of um different parts would be of um the family. So I just want to talk a bit about that on that. Um well that goes back thousands of years but today you can still see ring trees that are like just really um dense and they've gone thing but you can still see a little bit of it. But the thing is what makes me passionate in that about it is that they have made me pave paved the way for me to speak today and I'm honored of that and um getting to speaking to everyone on here on how we look after country. Now women, yeah women have we have the deep connections to river as I said um birthing uh giving birth and also um we have our dreaming stories. So in different nations there would be dreaming time stories that we would share. So uh for instance where I come from in the river ferry it's um the more you want. So that's um like a sort of a lock monster sort of thing. So yeah, um that's our dreaming. Um but as I go down to other nations there's different it surprises me and it's amazing stories like for instance when I went with Anaise and we went to um the country that Jay is on it is so beautiful and his story with the crocodile comes out it just the different amazing dreaming time stories it where it all comes together and it all connects to the land and the water that's what amazes me and the the thing is Um when I go out on country, I see a lot of um uh mittens and I see a lot of uh uh uh scar trees and and stuff. So they're still here today, but um there's um significant ones that we protect and um so there would be like rangers that would go out and they'll protect the r land. So they'll um go out and um take care of the feral animals. Um so that will be like the feral cats, the feral rabbits and just all the feral like yes. So working around looking after the land and the water. So coming back to the water um we also are deeply connected because you know there obviously water water is everything. Water is life. Water is like like I say this a lot. Water is like veins. um you can't connect uh you can't physically say one part of your body is um injured you can one part of your vein you cannot fix the other part and like all these river systems and all the creeks and stuff like that they all connect and they all connect to the land so that's what um Aboriginal like we try to keep that deeply connected so it's not separated so we have the land and the water connection so Um yeah, that's one part of it. And um there's heaps, but there's also um we make materials like um we use the uh plants um for baskets, so weaving um so we have a lot of rushes along alongside the river and only taken what is needed. Um, but I'll just just get you to stop a moment and Afia, could you jump through possibly just we've got a couple of slides that we haven't got to yet. Um, so could we go to the the next slide? >> Great. Yeah, sorry if you want to just quickly touch on that and then we'll jump through to the next one as well. >> Yeah. So speaking for future generations, um I would like I would like to just let you know that we do like to put the youth first and because they are our next future generation. They are our next elders. They are our next um leaders. So we try to give as much as support as we can. Um and um connecting them within school ways. connecting the schools together with um my work um having them um together and involving them in um repatch uh reveating the plants and stuff like that. So getting the schools involved and and um making sure our youth are knowing more or less passing knowledge on to what we know and what I've got passed on. So there's certain things that we do speak about and there's certain things that we don't speak about because there's women and men's business. So um that's very important. Um I just wanted to touch on that. But for the future generations we try to install that and embed that into them and and get that um for them to speak and do things for themsel and to just see if they love country as much as I love the water and the country as well. So yeah. Can we go to the next slide? Yeah. Great. >> So, yeah, we want to explain what country is because most Australians know, but I think internationally it's not um understood as an explicit concept. >> So, uh deeply very connected to the country because of the dreaming time stories. The dreaming time stories. There are a lot of nations in Australia and we're all different. We're not the same. U we speak different dialects. Um which is amazing and it is it's beautiful to listen to other languages. Um so the stories they connect um we connect with the stories and um the people they um well when ah I can't explain it properly. So when when we are talking about our stories, we have to talk about our stories correct and because um every nation has got a different story, but we're all connected to this land and um our ancestors that have left left an imprint for us to tell the stories of what um what we what our dream time is is um very important. And um yeah, we have a big yeah so like looking so where I'm from we like to we are trying to talk about like burnoffs so we don't have a lot of so that's um understanding the the when you know when we have big fires so we like to burn do the burnoffs and stuff like that so we don't have it again and it doesn't occur but we're in a talking process about that now so that's a bit more caring for country and community as Well, because fires, they light up a lot of things and unfortunately we have a a dry um air, you know, a dry like land. So, when it lights up, it lights up, you know, and um but the the identity that we have is um it's yeah, it's very it's it's connect it's a full, you know, it's a pool every day. They every day that I wake up, I'm just thinking about the ancestors and what they went through and the yeah the dreamings they were connected to that. >> We'll go to the next slide, please. >> So this is what you were saying a little bit earlier about how water connects everything together. >> Yeah. So as as I see um you cannot separate the land from the water because like like I was saying the water is is um is b so it connects to everywhere and it even connects to the sea and vice versa. So that's important as well. Um um so us people we need to work together. We really need to work together to get this right cuz I feel like in my area, my river is critically endangered. Um I feel like this is our last chance to work together and get this right because if we don't get it right, our river is going to turn black and um unfortunat Yeah, we just can't reverse things back in time. But um that's where water is very important to us. That's where biodiversity comes in and that's where everything just rolls rolls in and it it's all connected. So it's connectivity to everything to people to every every nation. >> Fantastic. We'll go to the next slide please. So culture water knowledge and practice the Is is that the same? Is that the one? >> Um I think this was this was Yeah. So yeah, I think that's I think Yeah, you probably spoke to that. So we might jump to the next one then. >> Yeah. >> Um so I feel deeply that uh there's no natural river flows. um everything's controlled. So there's still water and when there's still water everything dries and the road erupts and you know erosion comes to the side and stuff. Well it will you know things are declining these days and unfortunately you know we're getting a very dry dry the climate change is coming and it's coming. Yeah. So, but what happens when we don't have natural water flows is we have obviously algae blooms and we have the fish deaths and that's native fish and unfortunately our river is filled with carp and they're very horrible and they dirty our river system and get it um get it really um really mucky. So they're bottom feeders and um we've actually got two cups in our river, a small little tiny one that is um pregnant and we've got the big big ones. So they're not really good to look at. But yeah, it's um it's about trying to keep the natural flow going. But if we have the we and we have um locks in our river system, so they stop the natural river flow. So if we um that continues to happen. So what I argue um in my case sometimes is we need to let some barages up to let some natural flow going through and and and um get it back how it was back in the day and um just at least try to get some of that you know that natural flow going. >> Okay, next slide please. So me learning um I love learning about water like getting into this diving into this it's amazing um and knowing that back in the day the uh um you know the ancestors did give birth and did have ring trees and that was important and then also um traditional uh fish traps which is very amazing and um me and Alise went on a trip one of Peton. It's amazing. It was beautiful them fish traps. Amazing to see um uh just knowing that how they done it and how the way um Aboriginals back in the day um done it for native fish. So, and they would put them into put them into pools and like sit them there. So, you know, fresh little little pond pools. So if they wanted to have a fresh fish, they'll get it up and um stuff like that. But that would be really good if we had natural things like that in place today. But unfortunately, we don't. Um yeah, that's um that's incredible. The fish traps. I I'm even blown away. My mind even blows gets blown away every time I see this. Like I'm Aboriginal myself, but my mind gets blown away knowing that they done this thousands of years ago. But it is amazing. it amazing to learn and I would love to teach younger generations and that's all I'm doing is just ear bashing them about the river and how it works and if we can do things and change things if they what they will want to see in the future. Yeah. >> All right. Jump to the next slide. See, um we really need to uh like the water governance fee um like need to work on that uh transpar transparency um we need to work together. It is like I said it was it's very crucial um and be a partner partnership um be the partner to be sitting at the table and making decisions to to be actually there and saying what is what is right and what is wrong and look what are they doing wrong and what are they doing right and you know we can change it for the better for the future and we can have like we can have the next you know yeah next use for for they that will be the next elders and sharing his knowledge on that I have or other elders and other people have have got and you know sharing them with other people and letting them know how how it yeah how it all goes but in the future I just I can't wait but yeah >> fantastic and we'll go to the last slide which is sort of looking at how you know how we take what you've spoken about and the importance of it as a global message. >> Oh, look, this is it's amazing being on this webinar and thank you Anelise for um yeah for inviting me to this and me being in a one talking but I was nervous but hey um it's very important for everybody to know that look this is happening and the river connects to the sea and then the sea We've you've just ended up on mute. Uh somehow we can't hear you. What's happened? >> Can you hear me? >> Yes, now we can. Yes. >> Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, I was wondering if you could hear me or not, but yeah, it's very important for every the whole world to know like um that this is going on that um because everything connects and we we need to do this. It needs to be done now and and I'm privileged to be here and speaking as a woman and to let a lot of people know that what what's going on and stuff like that. But yeah, it's I don't Yeah, I'm just privileged to be here and speak. >> Okay. Well, thank you so much, Vanessa. I think you've really brought through some of the the themes that we started with about how um important water is and how how connected um it is as a foundation of life, identity, and culture. Uh so, thank you very much. And our third speaker is Loretta Lovevel. Uh and uh she is bringing us two perspectives which I'm really looking forward to. She's a lawyer, a governor, a regulator, and an environmental commissioner from um a tiara New Zealand. So she's helped establish New Zealand's modern quality and economic frameworks for water services as a founding board member of TA Mata AOA which is the water services authority and she's now an associate commissioner at the New Zealand Commerce Commission. Uh and for more than 25 years she's advised WI and Mari organizations on commercial and environmental matters. Uh, so I'm really looking forward to hearing her presentation on indigenous perspectives in regulation and um what's what's been achieved and potentially the the setbacks that have happened as well. So Loretta, over to you, can you hear me? >> Yes. Okay. Uh, thank you and team for inviting me. Um, before I begin, I just want to acknowledge Vanessa and Beli and the deep for and that they bought tonight. Well, tonight for me um in response to the Y which is the water for us, their faro and the communities that they represent as they speak. Um who am I? As Anelise says, I I wear a number of hats, but I am a daughter of which is a tribe in New Zealand. It is a matriarchal tribe. So I was raised very strongly by significant you know very strong mighty women and I I know the shoulders I stand. Um but yes I I am a lawyer by trade and a regular a regulator by intent. Um working across economic water quality and environmental decisions in New Zealand. um those roles are not separate nor are they separate to the fact that I am Marty and how I approach them. Why that ma matters really is regulation um has significant consequences for the the faro the communities the country as a whole. So when you look at is water safe, do essential services actually work, who carries the risk when they fail, uh what happens to the water and what do we leave behind? All of those things are built into regulation. So I very much see regulation and the role I take as one of service. So service to the people we you know we we we make decisions for service to the fenoa our land and our wart the way and responsibility to future generations. Um the challenge is carrying that responsibility and doing it in a way that reflects the obligations we have but also acknowledges the indigenous knowledge that brings so much to the decisions we make. Next slide please. So just briefly our regulatory framework um is very much based around the uh legal mandates we have. Sorry I can't help being a lawyer. Um we operate within those defined frameworks and um the law does not give us all the facts does not give us the risks. does not give us the consequences and that is where indigenous knowledge for me sits not outside the regulatory framework um not as a optional cultural extra it is a part of the knowledge needed to understand a decision properly. So my understanding of responsibility is shaped very much by tali. Um next slide and this is you know how I carry tali into my and and I acknowledge the the speakers before me and I I take very strongly that that reference to water is life. And for Marty I say why which is water. Why is not simply a resource? It carries identity. It carries fakaba, our genealogology and our spirituality. There's a well-known fakati of the Wangui which I've always taken um to heart which is called I am the river and the river is me. Um and for me that captures so much of our relationship. We are not separate from the Y. We are part of it and is part of us. And you know we carry that with us. Um the concepts in this slide you know they're quite big and personal for each of us as mi but for me and my mahi when I think of feninoa which is land um it keeps the decisions I make connected and grounded and reflecting the home that I have and the why papa is defined often as genealogy. Um, but it reflects those upon whose shoulders I sit and the communities I serve. And Kayyaki Tanga is pretty well known. It's know it's referenced in guardianship and looking after things. But kitaki tonga for me is so much bigger in that it is also accountability and responsibility over time for the decisions I make. I take that very very seriously. And um you know they these cultural concepts sit alongside me as I do my regulatory work they're part of how I understand responsibility and um my responsibility moving forward. So I'm going to give you a practical example if you move to the next slide. And this is probably a good one given the conversations we've had beforehand. In this scenario, I'm asking you to sort of imagine a one in 100 year severe weather event which it sort of feels like the world is having on a monthly basis and New Zealand is no different. Um imagine that the you know your infrastructure is stressed, drinking water is interrupted, waste water overflows. But after the immediate emergency response is complete, what happens? Um the community experience experiences one disruption but as regulators we see different statutory questions. Um so a water quality regulator will look at it from the role of drinking water safety and oversight of the functions of environmental performance. An economic regulator will look at it from investment performance risk service qual quality and efficiency and ultimately for the commission is the long-term benefit of consumers. So it's the same event but it comes to two regulators through different statuto lenses and we might knowledge and perspectives will be material to those questions in different ways but it is material because it brings the you know the placebased the knowledge the the history that you just don't get from pure data. So I've got I won't repeat them um the slides but just to give you some examples of what we have seen in New Zealand. Um when water is um accessible that's fine and when the supplier says you know supplier of water says emergency drinking water was provided during this sort of scenario as a regulator we could take them at face value or we can have a talk to the faro in the community and they're just as likely to say and I've seen it that the drinking you know the emergency drinking water was too far away there was not enough of it communication fell mu our old people could not access the water or our muna our children got sick drinking the untreated water that was available. So compliance is not always the same thing as access. Uh we need to have those conversations. We need to be talking to the people on site to understand that because we won't get that from necessarily from data. Um and in New Zealand we we are very dependent on Marai which are our places of you know they are the places where as Marty we come together. um when there is a disaster or when there is a you know significant event so often it is mai that the community goes to because it's a place where people can sleep they can drink um they can eat when these sort of disruptions happen regularly the risk is is that instead of fixing the infrastructure um mai and others just pick up the slack or um they absorb the failure of the infrastructure and that's never a good thing long term and it doesn't you know it says a lot about criticality in terms of what is fundamental in terms of our infrastructure and how we as regulators make decisions to ensure that it is actually fit purpose. So a network can look acceptable. The averages data can say it looks acceptable, but a remote community can tell you that it's failing repeatedly. And where that happens, often those communities will buy generators and all those things. They'll try and fill the gap. But again, as a regulator, we want to see resilience. We want to see that these communities are served and cared for in a way that is appropriate and ensures that they are kept whole. Um, indigenous knowledge in place knowledge is fundamental to telling us what's happening in in place and um, I can't understate how important it is to engage. Um, so For us as regulators, you know, we we have different mandates, we have different questions, but unless we have that background information, unless we have that that conversation, our decisions aren't necessarily whole or the best decisions for for those communities. Uh slide five. So again just briefly indigenous knowledge can impact decisions as a regulator a full of fuller evidential picture does not predetermine outcome but it improves the quality of the judgment. Indigenous and placebased knowledge is a core component of that assessment because without it you just don't have the full picture either of scale or the effect of the communities you're serving. It's incumbent on the supplier to engage with EW Martian and communities but equally it's incumbent on the regulator to ensure that we are we have the material and information before us to understand the impacts of our decisions that comes with engagement and being proactive and then last slide. So what I would leave um as a regulator is It comes back to responsibility. When we do our work, we should be rig rigorous about the regulatory framework, but be equally rigorous about whether the knowledge before us is enough. En enough to understand what our decisions mean for the people and the places and the water and for those who come after us. And that's how I try and approach this mahi. Service, responsibility, and accountability. Thank you so much, Loretta, for uh everything that you've raised uh and speaking from from both perspectives of um the challenges around regulation and how we um how we look at that and even the the difficulties different regulators have but then also about I think that that last point you left us with about um is the knowledge before us enough is is really quite a key one. Um we do have a poll uh to uh for people to just let us know about um how much um you've been involved in I guess what your background is in terms of the um your understanding of indigenous knowledge. Um which will just help us as we move into this Q&A session. Uh so I might invite the other two our other two speakers to pop their cameras on as well as we as we see that uh because I would really like to ask there's a um to sort of reframe possibly a a question that uh Leah has asked she had asked about examples of indigenous knowledge combined with modern engineering knowledge but I might expand that out to um scientific approaches as well. Have you seen examples where indigenous knowledge and scientific approaches or modern engineering have successfully worked together and what made those partnerships effective? I don't know whether it's you or Balky or Vanessa would like to talk about I guess examples of any any examples you can speak of in that area. So well may well I might um I guess pose another question then um about what unique knowledge and perspectives do you think indigenous women bring to water management that are missing from conventional systems >> and conventional approaches. So I was just playing with my phone before being able to answer the earlier question. But um >> in in my experience, mighty women often carry that that knowledge of grounded, you know, the faro um our nuclear um family and they lead us. They are the ones that are are the ones that tell us that when the children are sick or when there's something wrong with the water or when there's something happening in terms of um the rivers and things like that. I've been in Hoi where I've had Kada saying that you know when they were children they would be able to fish in the river that is their awa and now the water is so low they can walk across it and you know you you sense and you understand just the feeling of I would say mite the hurt of that. So as a as as someone who has to make decisions whether it's environmental decisions or other when I am listening to um Marty Marty and they're speaking of that experience so often it is mighty woman >> Vanessa would like to >> yes uh an Alisa just to add like what is the the unique knowledge that indigenous women bring >> or indigenous people in general. I will talk about indigenous science or indigenous knowledges >> is science on its own. It's science that uh we have been using for a very long time. It is something that is tested and proven and not only that indigenous science but they bring another aspect which is missing in conventional stuff like the spiritual knowledge surrounding water management. M >> have spiritual knowledge that we manage water and then another thing we use is in terms of the traditional knowledge we do a lot of observation. We observe a lot and we observe and then we also have local indicators that we use to to look at whether things are okay with the water and whether things are not okay. We have local indications that are known to the knowledge builders. They know that okay when they see this know that the water there is a problem with the water. when they see this okay it means the water is okay they see maybe a particular in they know that maybe the water will dry so that local indicators are some of the things that are really missing in terms of scientist >> yes I have to agree sorry uh in conversations that I've had uh I think there's a really strong systems understanding that western science likes to um really bring things down of a single indicator or certain things to monitor and it fails to account for the complexities and whereas indigenous knowledge uh as I have observed it has uh a much greater understanding of the of the interlinks and the the signals. the radar. >> Yeah, I was literally going to say that the the strongest examples I've seen where um indigenous knowledge and science have worked successfully is where um we're not asking either to surrender their integrity if that's if that makes sense. So where you have science speaking to the monitoring or modeling or you know ec ecological analysis >> but then you have kas and local knowledge holders who have decades of observation of the hour the species the tides this morning um they've held that place close with what we would call rahi where they um close off areas to protect them >> all of that knowledge and the why the where is fundamental and they they sit side by side. They don't have to compete. >> Um and you know when we when we see that that's when you see the success you know the respect the curiosity and the testing together. >> Yes. I think that can be very powerful. I remember uh in the drought an indigenous colleague speaking of how they were trying to secure a water supply for uh a community that was predominantly indigenous and they um it was far had been colonized sort of six generations and they asked the farmers um you know where should we drill balls and didn't find any water and then they asked auntie and she told a dream time story of how the rainbow serpent had come down from the mountain and and disappeared and when they drilled there they found water. Um certainly one example. Um Vanessa, do you have any do you want to comment on the perspectives that indigenous women bring to water management that you think might be missing? I know you're very um very passionate in the work that you're doing at the moment around the water m the water act and um which is um looking at particularly the Murray Darling Basin which is the big river in Australia. It's about I don't know fifth the size of Europe. >> Yes, it is. It's very very big and um you know it's um the knowledge that you know we we try try to install in the kids but um it's the dreaming times that don't get connected when with this like I agree with what Loretta said um it's it's it's really hard for like like um to connect if you're you have to physically be there but yeah it's um for as an Aboriginal um woman. Um, yeah, I just I just want to keep this um keep my knowledge going and speak to the like I speak to the Murray Darling Basin and I try to put my um I'm getting put myself and what I think and then what the elders and that have told me to um you know uh pass along and to give knowledge on to and just to share it just to let people know that um we are very connected and very in interlin with this um cuz that this um land is our mother and um like the veins as I call it is the river and um the creeks and um the heart we as a people we need to keep it beating so we need to keep this going and look after the mother as the land and that's how we've I've always got it told so yeah it's um Thank you very much for sharing that with us. Um I'm very mindful of the time. So I'll sort of wrap up our Q&A and panel session here. I'll just share the results of the poll so people can see I guess the background of everyone who is here. I would really like to thank our three panelists. It has been absolutely wonderful to uh have these perspectives. I'm really passionate about what uh the International Water Association can do uh for bringing indigenous knowledge um into modern governance and modern water management and how we can support indigenous communities uh in the uh water and environmental space to connect with one another. And so it was this is a I think a very early step for us in uh bringing together international conversations around uh water stewardship and indigenous knowledge because often when I speak to uh people particularly within the more uh western space and you talk about indigenous water is really seen as sort of water sanitation and health and there's a very limited understanding of the um the depth of knowledge, the spirituality and that connection to to country to land that that water is life. So I'd really like to thank the three of you for joining us and and sharing your perspectives. Um I'll now just move to our closing slides um if we can get them back up. But yeah, thank you Uh so this this has we've got some upcoming um webinars and events u which are sort of I guess a bit more around our traditional um traditional areas. So this one that's um coming up towards the end of August on mainstreaming water sensitive design and planning um which will be um an interesting one as we start to look at how we um work at that within our cities. Next slide. uh and um uh looking at u formalizing manual pit emptying services in informal settlements uh will be on the 3rd of September. Uh and the next slide and then coming up in October um is the World Water Congress and exhibition and there will be a webinar on the 2nd of September where we will be launching the women in water program. Um so that'll be happening from 1 to 2 British Standard Time. So if you are coming to the World Water Congress and I know there's been a lot of um uh or some chatter in the in the um uh in the chat uh around connecting for Congress that would be um I highly recommend that webinar to you to come to that and um and hear what's happening with the women in water program. It's been um we've been pulling together some incredible um activities and opportunities to connect and to hear from uh a great diversity of speakers. So please join us for that webinar and then you can plan for coming to the event as well. And then in November we'll have the digital water summit in Turkey which uh if that's the area that you're working in um I'm sure that will be a fantastic event. Well, and um IWA um seeks to bring together professionals from around the world and across disciplines. So if you would like to join then please do so and you can get 20% off new membership. Uh so thank you very much. That wraps up our presentation. I uh I hope that you found it enjoyable. I um I've I've had a I found it an absolute privilege to meet with these three amazing women and develop this webinar. And I really um I think if you are interested in more of this uh and you are an IWA member or interested in being a member, I really encourage you um if you are more in the the ally space to think about how we can be supporting these conversations and and bringing them from um on the ground on country conversations to actually have a a real global network and um global interactions. So, uh, please join me in, um, thanking all of our speakers again. I really, um, I've learned so much from having them here.