Video summary
The discussion centers on a specific sexual orientation term, gynandromorphophilia, which describes attraction to trans women who possess both breasts and a penis. The transcript notes that this preference is not uncommon in pornography and can even be found among straight men; however, there is a distinction between those with this occasional interest and individuals for whom it is an exclusive or primary requirement. An example provided involves the speaker's former girlfriend whose ex-husband required viewing images of trans women on a computer screen to become aroused, creating significant complications in their relationship. The conversation also references historical contexts from the 1990s, such as Alan Partridge and "ladyboys" in Thailand, noting that while these figures often tour internationally, they do not typically operate within the US market in the same way. Furthermore, the speaker mentions research conducted for his 2003 book, *The Man Who Would Be Queen*, which involved interviewing transsexual prostitutes who transitioned from working as male escorts to female ones after surgery, thereby accessing a broader range of clients. A central debate addressed is whether individuals with this preference constitute a new category of sexual orientation and how they align on the spectrum between gay and straight identities. The speaker argues that men attracted to shemales are very close to being straight rather than gay, as evidenced by their arousal patterns in laboratory settings. When exposed to erotic stimuli featuring two women having sex versus two men having sex, these individuals show a clear preference for female-female interactions but remain indifferent or less aroused by male-male content compared to typical straight men who might have some level of genital response to both categories. This distinction highlights that gynandromorphophilia does not equate to homosexuality in the traditional sense, as neither those with this specific attraction nor regular straight men are typically aroused by videos of two men engaging sexually. The dialogue then shifts to contrasting male arousal patterns with female responses, introducing the concept that heterosexual women may be genitally indifferent to erotica. In laboratory experiments where straight women view stimuli involving either same-sex couples (two men or two women), they often display a flat pattern of genital arousal, responding equally regardless of the gender composition of the partners on screen. This physiological response contradicts their subjective self-reports, as these women claim to be psychologically aroused by both types of content but do not experience the intensity of arousal seen in straight men or gay men. In contrast, lesbians demonstrate a distinct preference for female stimuli both genitally and subjectively, showing significantly less interest in male-male pornography than heterosexual women do. The conversation concludes with an exploration of residual arousal patterns among lesbian populations regarding male stimuli. While lesbians show strong preferences for female-female content, they still exhibit some level of genital response to images of men having sex compared to neutral nature scenes, suggesting a vestigial biological component that persists despite their psychological orientation toward women. However, the transcript acknowledges difficulties in answering specific questions about whether lesbians are more aroused by gay male pornography than straight lesbian viewers or even gay men themselves; these queries remain hard to answer definitively due to methodological differences between measuring genital arousal in males versus females. Consequently, researchers have increasingly turned to functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scans of the brain as a superior alternative for studying erotic responses when physical measurement tools differ significantly by gender. The segment ends with an invitation for listeners to access the full unedited episode and subscribe, leaving some complex questions regarding these nuanced arousal patterns open for further investigation.
Read the full video transcript
the other word that I learned when
looking at some of your work is gynandro
morphophilia
one of the longest words I think I've
ever said in my life what's gynandro
morphophilia
gynandromorphophilia so I'm gonna say a
word that I I think is fine but um
some people are touchy about it
gyneamorphophilia is sexual attraction
to females
what I mean by a is a NATO male
trans woman who has both breasts and a
penis still
um
you know I I assume I can say I can I
can see it in my mind's eye yep well
it's not hard to find it online that
that is a kind of pornography I have
come across
uh and it actually is uh quite a common
form
of pornography
and even I think just plain old normal
straight men
get into that sometimes
but they're they're different than the
kind of men who need that and prefer it
and for example I had a
I had a girlfriend
at one time whose ex-husband
uh
had that preference and in order for
them to have sex
they needed to bring a picture of a
on the computer screen so he
could look at it
and become aroused that became a problem
for her I can imagine I can imagine that
that would create complications yes yeah
but that's you know some other
just plain old I think mostly just plain
old straight men
they just I think don't have the hang up
about the penis being there too
this is what you know back in the 90s
you know on Alan Partridge which is a
famous British comedy show one of his
friends it turns out was going to
Thailand and he comes back and all he
wants to hear about is the ladyboys he
did all he wants to hear about is
ladyboys tell me about the lady boys he
keeps on saying yeah
that's right the lady boys that's that's
what they are yeah they still tour as
ladyboys of Bangkok in the UK I don't
know if that's the same in the US but I
mean there's posters everywhere for
ladyboys of Bangkok
to my knowledge they don't come here but
um
you know there there are um
escorts that you can find online
um I I knew
in writing my book uh the 2003 book
called The Man Who Would Be Queen I
actually at that time knew some
transsexual
uh
prostitutes
some of whom had worked
as she male prostitutes and then they
got surgery and continued to work
as
female prostitutes
opening opening up to as many markets as
possible yeah yeah well the one that I'm
thinking of
preferred the um
the men who liked women to the men who
like females
I I think she thought that the ones who
liked females
I don't know that they treated her
differently as as a very interesting so
this is this is a an obvious uh
follow-up which is
this a new category of sexual
orientation are these people closer to
gay people are they closer to straight
people
great question and so I can answer the
second part of that question they are
very close to straight people they're
not at all gay guys guys who get into
shemales
so if we bring these guys in the lab and
we show them pornography featuring just
women and the the kind that we use in
this situation is two women
having sex with each other
female female porn and
male male male porn
uh those are
the kind best kind of uh
stimuli because if somebody gets aroused
there's no
ambiguity about who they're getting
aroused by
um
guys who are into shemales get aroused
to the females but not the males
but they get slightly more aroused to
videos
of two shemales getting it on
and that's a little different than
typical straight men who get more
aroused by two females
and two shemales but neither
gynamorphophiles nor
regular straight men get aroused to two
men getting it on right next next
obvious follow-up question to that is
I've heard you say that heterosexual
women are genitally indifferent
what does that mean
I I would say not just genitally
indifferent they're I think that they're
conscious feelings
are indifferent in the laboratory
to erotica so
if we bring women into the lab and we
show them the cane same kinds of stimuli
two men having sex two women having sex
straight women
show an indifferent pattern of genital
arousal they get equally aroused to both
by both and they get and they say
they get equally aroused by both now
they don't get that aroused
psychologically they don't straight
women do not get as aroused to watching
either kinds of
erotic stimuli that I just mentioned as
either straight men do
or gay men do
but it is interesting that they seem to
show this
flat pattern lesbians in contrast do
show both a
genital preference and a subjective
preference
for female stimuli is the a vestigial
arousal among lesbians for men
lesbians do get more aroused by male
stimuli than they do to nature scenes
but what about do they get more aroused
to gay men than gay men do to lesbians
dude
these questions are hard to answer
uh and the studies that we need Michael
these are the these are the hard
charging questions that we need well
they're hard to answer because the kinds
of
apparatus that
you must use to measure genital arousal
in men differs from that that you must
use to measured in women and the best
evidence that we have
uh we've taken it out of
the genitals into the brain we've done
uh fmri scanning of
people
who looking at erotic stimuli
and it pretty much shows the same
patterns as the genital stuff does
and your excellent question I
I think I'm gonna have to hold off
answering because I don't remember
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