Hunter Biden, Matt McCusker & Duncan Trussell - Mostly Wise #2

changed my wife's name to Peter Teal on my phone. [laughter] Never mind. Just [clears throat] because I got accused of being in Peter Teal's I don't know him, never met him, but people So now anytime my phone my wife calls, which is a lot, Peter Teal is calling. [laughter] >> I don't know him. I'm never I don't know. >> Yeah, sure, man. [laughter] >> There's a lot of text from Peter Teal over here. >> Let's talk about Antichrist now. [laughter] Please no. >> A cool angle, you know, he went with that was a It's a weird direction. >> What? >> He just became the Antichrist guy. >> I saw the talk. It's >> How was the talk? It's a terrible His interpretation of the book of Revelations is so Silicon Valley cuz he was like uh he's basically saying we can fix the book of Revelations. Patch it like the apocalypse doesn't have to happen. I don't want to put this on the podcast because I take so much [ __ ] from [laughter] weirdos that I'm a Peter Teal sickopant. Hey, by the way. Oh, are we on the podcast right now? I saw his phone. He's got like a hundred calls from Peter Teal. >> It's [laughter] my wife. >> You just showed me. You just showed all of us. >> I changed. >> Just to make it clear, >> I love you. I changed my wife's n [ __ ] it. >> Now that's how we're going to play. >> That's it. That's [laughter] it. And we're away. >> Completely over. By the way, >> I want everybody I want to I want to say this for the record. [laughter] I love Peter Teal. >> Really? >> Oh, absolutely. What do you love about I'm not [ __ ] with Peter Teal. He's in league with the Antichrist. I'm not. Yeah, I love >> Oh, this is your saying out of fear. That's [laughter] what you're saying. >> Oh, no. No. I love >> This is Pascal's way. This is Biden's way. >> He's the [ __ ] craziest [ __ ] of all of them. >> You think? >> Have you watched that interview where he just decides that what he's going to start doing is, you know, as we're talking about Palunteer and everything is that he's going to start talking about, you know, the antichrist. Have you watched that interview with him? >> It is frightening. Yeah, I didn't I didn't make it through. I kind of watched and was like I I just was like it's kind of a cool angle, I guess. >> Just like a tech weirdo to be like I know about the end of the world. >> Yeah. But wouldn't you say like the tech companies it is a religion now. It's turning into some kind of apocalyptic esqueological religion. They're all building bomb shelters. They all know that AI is about to reach some level that is going to completely destabilize society as we know it. So it's I mean it's not a cult, but most cults what do they talk about? the end of the world, the imminent escaton, is that how you say it? Escaton, the apocalypse. Yeah. >> And so they're all into that because they they know that this stuff is going to destabilize society. >> I can't get down with being afraid of computers. >> Yeah. Like you you have to be such a nerd to be looking at your computer like it's going to be my boss. >> I'm not afraid of the computer. I'm afraid of those scampering robot dogs. [laughter] I'm That's what I'm afraid of. I'm afraid of being in the woods in here. One of those DARPA dogs. >> My thing is you said it before. Dump. All you got to do is dump soda on them. >> Fried. >> There you go. But have you said [laughter] done? >> Don't be afraid. >> JUST POUR A COKE ON IT, GUYS. >> CUZ YOU GOT A CUP OF COFFEE in here in your [ __ ] >> D. Have you seen those dogs that are patrolling Atlanta? >> Downtown Atlanta is so dangerous at the moment that supposedly Here it is. >> Bro, we got This is security right now. >> Pour out on that, right? went like literally right out of Robocop. >> Oh no. >> Soul detected. Eliminated for real. >> Yeah, they wave. >> But there's it's humans on the other side. So it's just >> Oh, then we're okay. >> But isn't that isn't that isn't that strange that [laughter] if I'd said, "Oh, it's like LAR mapping AI surveillance state." >> Everyone would have gone. It's already kind of freakish and inhuman. Yeah, but the fact that it's basically replacing a rather than there being a guy there, there's a dog there and maybe the guy doesn't need to be in quite so much risk if it's maybe like a gang area or something like that and you're like, but that is that goes to show just how low the bar for not being freaked out is, >> right? Have you seen the um the proliferation of plot cameras just in the last year? >> I've heard about I don't really understand what it is. It's gone from like hundreds to hundreds and hundreds of thousands in like all major metropolitan areas. They're just a it's a camera technology. It's a surveillance technology. >> And they've got drones now. >> They're getting drones. They're going to swarms of flock of these drones are going to fly over. Plus the Amazon delivery drones. There's going to be this constant buzzing of drones in the sky bringing you [ __ ] monitoring you. This is where we're headed for sure. >> Yeah. >> Was it true that Pokémon Go was that? Yeah. Yeah. >> Did that get proven that they were basically uh gullible volunteers for mapping the street view of everything? >> I mean, we're all gullible volunteers. >> They were just you you were like able to map the inside of places and just like you could just get a real-time view of everything going on. >> And someone didn't read the terms and conditions that Nintendo put together. >> Who reads that? I don't read that. Are we afraid of the Japanese? >> What? >> No, I think they're our ally. Japan's our ally. >> Yeah. So, it's good, right? >> That's corporations though. It's not good. And they literally have everything. We literally have given over our lives to the to the bag of heroin that's sitting in our pocket that's called an iPhone. Literally everything. All of our everything that we feel about anything, the way that we, you know, uh our perspective on politics on everybody and everything is, you know, a uh a by virtue of the of the algorithm that we're fed and we and we give up everything. We give up all of our privacy. And I'm not saying like, you know, like they do that, like I do it, we do it every day. every single bit of data that we do, whether it's the way that we use any single one of our apps, whether it's Uber or anything, it's all this enormous amount of personal data that we are just like feeding into a, you know, a corporate entity that that they don't I mean, and by the way, I'm not saying they're inherently evil, but what I am saying is is that they're inherently have only one objective is how much money can they extract from us >> or come. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. True. >> Yeah. What? Or what come porn? >> How much come they're trying to extract? >> I mean I mean this is one of the unquantifiables every day. How much jizz is being extracted from humanity by phones by technology? >> True. >> You just literally took this conversation to another level. >> I mean I mean it's data. >> It's data DNA baby. Do you ever think about when they I think they eventually will have it set up on like ancestry.com where you're like kids kids can just look at your web history over your whole life and just see everything you've ever looked at all time. >> Who's who's it >> that was basically your life for a while. >> No. Yeah. 100%. It was my life. >> Speaking of your data being on the internet, how do you how does it feel to be the most Googled drug addict of all time? Probably. >> Well, um at the outset [laughter] it wasn't very nice. It was uh it was pretty debilitating, you know. I mean that I I uh to be serious about it is was so completely ubiquitous is that it forced me into this moment where I literally had to make a choice of whether I was going to, you know, stay in bed and die or, you know, or or get up and live. And um and thank God I chose to get out of bed and and live which created like an an incredible freedom in it too. I mean at the end of the day without any hyper uh you know melodrama around it is that it really I'm I'm I do have an enormous amount of gratitude of not being stuck in those secrets because those are the things that kept me in my addiction. You know that shame. >> Yeah. What was that like? I I I'm like kind of fascinated by just now how like with the internet you can just like massively shame people on a scale that I don't think anyone's ever experienced. The first day that came out, did you like were you like knowing that was going to come out or did it just kind of like pop out and you were like >> No, I completely like the day that it happened. >> Oh >> yeah. I mean, no warning whatsoever. >> Yeah. >> I got a call. I just wrote about it on Substack. I got a call. I went to Palm Springs. We thought that we had kind of like made it to the end of the campaign. Early voting had started. Things looked really good. All of the, you know, the baggage. I'd been sober for a little about about a year and a few months at that time and was trying to put my life back together, getting things straightened, like my taxes and things like that. Um and uh and so a buddy of mine said, "Hey, come out to Palm Springs and we'll just like turn off our phones and you know, and Melissa and I and we have baby B who was uh a few months old and we showed up, unpacked our bags and I got a call. I I should have turned off my phone. I got a call from uh my friend who was also my lawyer [gasps] and he said, "Hey, New York Post is saying something about a a laptop and a you know repair shop and you know and you know I had no idea of the enormity of the story and how much Hunter Biden laptop would become just one word uh that would be and to this day is repeated over and over and over again." And so for a long time it was really difficult to kind of uh it was like trying to um get your hands around a bowl of jelly. Uh because there was there was the laptop repair shop story which then became a a a story of suppression uh you know first amendment rights and stuff like that which we can talk about all that. Um but and then it became uh you know Le Parnes came out and he said this laptop isn't from uh you know repair shop. We were uh I was going to we were out we were going to get the laptop in Ukraine you know 3 months before the laptop repair shop story ever existed. Mhm. >> Two, I just sat down with Tucker and Tucker said, "Well, even before that, the the Israeli uh intelligence met with my producers to um provide us with the same images that came out of the laptop before that." And I mean that just came out. I mean, I sat down with Tucker last week, Tuesday, and um he told me that story, which I didn't even know that. >> Can you say that? Can you explain that story? >> So, was it in a shop? But I can't explain it because it's not my story, but it's but but uh Tucker said that he was approached by um uh who he believes to be Israeli intelligence and he sent a producer to meet with them and they uh were pushing stories. Uh they were pushing a a narrative that there was um uh uh images that contained um you know minors in it. And um and he said his producer looked at it and he just was like, "This is total bullshit." But it's like, "But these guys are clearly, you know, uh working for some intelligence organization." >> Funny if they're just New York Times reporters, just Jewish guys. [laughter] >> This is intelligence for sure. >> So consider the source. But my point is is that >> So just like everyone had your >> Not only everyone had it. Um yes, 100%. And there's no there is no just look at the I mean just the facts of it understand this is that the amount of data that was dumped obviously didn't come from a single source it came from my cloud it came from years 20 years of digital of my digital footprint all the way back to deleted voicemails like that deleted voicemail from my dad obviously it wasn't on a single laptop >> but there are emails and text messages and deleted text messages and deleted photographs and photographs and all of that stuff. There's the 90% that of of what is online is from me >> and um uh but it was all taken and then without any context just it it provided a conspiracy uh and a narrative where you could say Hunter Biden laptop corruption, Hunter Biden laptop Biden crime family, Hunter Biden laptop Ukraine, Hunter Biden laptop China. I had 20 years of experience, you know. I mean, the thing that people uh uh have this the the the narrative that took hold in the image that was created of me [sighs and gasps] was this near dwell fail son who had been drifting off of his father's coattails, you know? I mean, [ __ ] man. I whether you like it or not is that I worked my ass off enough to go to Yale Law School and start my own business and uh and build a family. And they conflated my addiction with just complete and utter failure. And um and my addiction to crack cocaine in particular, which is the most kind of graphic part of of my addiction, the hardest part was alcohol for me. The most dangerous piece of it was alcohol. And they conflated those two things. And what they did was is that the New York Post was literally in league with Steve Bannon and a guy named uh Miles Gao um who's a Chinese billionaire who now has servant 68 years in prison for fraud and he and they took one they were one silo and they pushed out the images globally. There's a whole tape of them literally talking about it >> and what they were doing and how they were took um uh liberty with the images and how they uh you know created these narratives outside of the United States and pushed it back in. And then there was Rudy Giuliani, Bernie Carrick, and Rudy Giuliani's lawyer. And they got their [clears throat] information from a guy named uh Andre Durkatch, who was a GS uh a Russian operative inside of Ukraine, sanctioned by the United States. And they warned Giuliani that he was talking to a Russian operative. Uh and I mean just the what just came out from Trump, remember he did that document dump >> uh recently. What >> the UFOs? >> No, he just did a document dump where he had the big press conference to be able to show that election interference in in 2020. >> Oh, yeah. [sighs and gasps] One of the documents that they mistakenly [laughter] released, the classified documents, was a report from the NDI saying that Vladimir Putin was personally running a um an op on Joe Biden using his uh using US officials to um uh uh to uh uh promote disinformation around Hun Biden and um and that was it. And they knew it and Giuliani knew it at the time. >> What do you think Putin's beef with you would be? >> Oh, I had no beef. Look, none of this is about me, >> right? >> None of it. I mean, literally, I mean, I don't I there's nothing that I mean, I I feel like I've had a um uh I I'm I I am comfortable more comfortable in who I am and what I've achieved in my life and uh and what I haven't in my failings and more open about it, I think, than anybody in in, you know, that I know of, at least right now. >> But none of it was about me. It's all about power. It all is about the most powerful position in the world in which you have control over uh [gasps] you know uh the the direction of the lives of you know an entire planet and so >> yeah can you explain that to me like the president how much like power does a president actually have to be like here's how we're doing stuff? Well, I the amount of power that a president has is dependent upon the their adherence to the constitution. M >> and so part of it is is that whether you recognize the limits to your power and and uh and so I don't think that uh I think that that Trump for better or worse u uh well I think for way worse has blown through all of those not just uh norms but the the the constitution. >> So you're saying if you stick to the rules you don't actually have that much power. Well, if you stick to the rules, there's there is the the the the central piece of the constitution is the separation of powers. >> And they all stick to the rules. That's what's awesome about presidents. [laughter] >> None of them none of them necessarily have stuck to the rules. And for instance, Teddy Roosevelt, who was one of my heroes as a president, despite all of his failings as it relates to his views on race and other things that were, I think, a product of his time in, you know, late 1800s to early 1900s. He didn't, but you know what he did? He created he used the power, which I don't think that he was necessarily granted by the Constitution, to create the national parks. He used that power to build the Panama Canal. He used that power uh to break the trust and and to completely um in my opinion save this country from being swallowed up by an oligarchy in the in the late 1800s and early 1900s led by John D. Rockefeller. >> And so he used that power to advance the interest of normal people, common people. Um and and he called it the um the square the square deal. and his cousin then uh used it to implement uh the the New Deal and and many people would argue and they certainly did then is that he went way beyond his constitutional authority. Abraham Lincoln went beyond his constitutional authority in many instances as related to the way in which he inscripted people or didn't inscript people into the into the civil war and the way in which he enforced the Emancipation Proclamation. real question of whether or not there was um that that that was constitutionally available to him in the way that he did it. I'm not saying that presidents have not uh gone outside of the constitutional authority particularly. I mean I don't know. Have you ever read the devil's chessboard? I can't read. Okay. Well, have you listened to the devil's chessboard [laughter] now? Now you have audio. Listen to it because I actually how I did it while I while I paint. I always listen to books and it is a story of the Dulles brothers beginning before World War I and their rise to power. One became secretary of state, one became the um the uh the founder of the CIA. um he's not the founder of the CIA, but the the guy and one has Delos airport named after him and the other is probably, you know, the most important person as it relates to our covert um agencies of anyone in in the country. And he was almost a full-blown [ __ ] Nazi. >> I mean, literally, I mean, he did more to rescue Nazis after World War II, uh the really bad ones, um to come into the United States to and go other places. >> What do you do that for to get like their secrets? money. >> Oh, really? >> Well, per but there's and this is what I've always I what I what I think I think that there are two things in this country. One of them is our original sin as as relates to slavery and the fact that we have never fully um uh and I'm not talking that we reparations or anything. I'm I'm saying but it it's a fact is that the systemic rot in the United States of America goes back to slavery and it goes back into the way in which the hypocrisy of the founding fathers as it relates to their principles of freedom and liberty not necessarily applying uh to everybody but the constitution was built to evolve and to um uh that you were you know and that's why we have how what 26 amendments to the constitution or whatever and And but after Lincoln, we had an opportunity in reconstruction and Lincoln had a plan and he you know like 40 acres in a mule like that the whole idea >> and there was a uh there was a real renaissance directly after the civil war in like for instance in South Carolina directly after the civil war the entire state legislature was was black. They elected black you had a until a um till there's one town and I forget the name of the town and the town basically rose up and and and uh the white people in the town rose up. They murdered every black person that was in a position of authority in the south and the federal government did nothing about it because after Lincoln was killed, Andrew Johnson comes forward and he takes away all of those things. He t and we basically end up with a Jim Crow South all the way up until 1968, >> right? >> In which >> the active participation of 10% to 12% of our population was, you know, was not just segregation. I mean, it was a form of apartheid. And and to say that like, oh, just get over that. We have not structurally gotten over it. There has been a a in my opinion a permanent confederacy class in the United States of America. And it's a it's a mix of cristofascism and uh and and an oligarchy that recognizes the power of of of feeding people a narrative in which if you are uh if if you're white and you're um and and you're poor, don't look up, look look down, define your problems. >> Yeah. and and and I and and I and whether or not that is the the full reason, Matt, I I I see your skepticism around it. And I'm not saying that there is any uh um that that that is everything, but I am saying this is that we have never truly gotten to the systemic root of uh so many of the things that continue to plague us. And it's the same arguments over and over again. I can't believe in 2026 we're still having the same arguments that you know we had you know when I was >> like we shouldn't blow up kids. >> Perfect. >> Yeah, that's a good one. >> Arguments for real. >> Like that's not going to be on the table. >> You know, blowing up blowing up kids is always on the table for the United States cuz we're always blowing up kids. Like no matter who the president is, they always end up blowing up kids. >> Yeah. >> Most people have no idea where their testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low tea faster than a high school bully. And it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where Function comes in. Gives you access to over 160 lab tests, including a deep dive into your full hormone paddle. Every result is reviewed by clinicians. Anything out of range is flagged. You get clear explanations with a personalized protocol with actionable next steps. So if something's off, you know exactly what to do about it. Whether you just need to go to the gym more or you need to play Creed louder in your car, Function will tell you exactly where your testosterone and everything else stands. Normally, this level of testing would usually cost thousands. But with Function, it's $365 a year. That's $1 a day to stop guessing with your health and start knowing. And right now, you can get $25 off, bringing it down to 340 bucks. So, get the exact same blood panels that I do and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That like time around the laptop release. I'm still just so fascinated how what it feels like to be a human just like a normal person with that level of global scrutiny because it must be the most I can't think of a more deranging situation to go through. You're what 18 months into sobriety. Yeah. >> 2 months. What? Two years of sobriety. You got a new >> new family, new kid. >> This thing happens. You're in Palm Springs. >> Yeah. >> It's hell. I don't understand how I don't understand what that feels like, what that's like to go through that. >> Um, it was uh it was paralyzing in the moment, you know. Uh only the only thing I I think that I could uh how to explain it or articulate it that you would feel it is like remember when like you were a kid and you knew you did like something like really bad. >> Yeah. and you had this like like feeling in your chest and you don't know what to do and you like you just don't want to leave your room and you you know like whatever it is >> is that that's what it felt like and I and and I didn't know what was going to happen next you know there was no path it wasn't like uh I'm going to accuse you of of bribery in Ukraine because of this I can deal with that because I know it's not true and I can show you the paperwork and I can show you what I did and I can show you this that and the other thing. In this instance, it was like, "We got naked pictures of you smoking crack with prostitutes in a motel and we're going to dump them all online." Now, thank God, not by any design, is that right when I got sober, I I um did an interview with a guy named Adams, who was writing for the New Yorker at the time in which I don't know where it came from, but I it was a miracle is that I just decided to tell him everything on the record about all about my addiction. And and everybody thinks that that was like some kind of like PR, you know, like genius kind of like thing and and it truly wasn't. It was literally like Adam Mentos I knew to be a really great writer, fair journalist, and I just thought, you know what, like there ain't any hiding this. >> Other people thought that you were it was a gambit to frontr run future headlines that were going to come out so that you could say, oh, I've already got out ahead of it. >> Yeah. The first person Adam told me the first person that called him was uh Steve Bannon and said you you scooped us >> and and uh and I didn't know that until after the laptop came out because they had the laptop way back. >> Was there ever a moment when you thought that partying stuff could bring down your dad's presidency? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. then and the uh I mean [sighs and gasps] so it goes up on on all social media feeds and for like a 72-hour period of time uh it's it's up but then they take it down which makes it so much worse that they take it down. Yeah. Okay. I mean it's the Barbara Stysan effect. It's like triple conspiracy. >> And the reason that they took it down is one reason >> is because it violated their um uh their ter their terms of service >> is because what they were putting up is nude pictures of me without my consent which is called revenge porn which is now uh a federal criminal statute that Melania got passed. >> Hunter may may I ask you a per it's it's a personal question. It's something I think >> people are curious about. >> Yeah. Why did you take all those pictures? Like, you know, >> in and I I understand you were like smoking. What? Yeah, you look great, but like what? But what [laughter] >> when I'm like on a bender, >> the last thing I want is like snapping. >> Go look at Here's the thing is the truth. Go look at the pictures >> is that all most of the pictures that you see I didn't take. Who took them? I'm asleep. [gasps and laughter] Like one of them, like one of those always that's shown all the time over and over again is me with a meth pipe in my mouth sleeping. >> Who Who sleeps with That's I was curious about that, too. How do you I always thought when you smoke meth >> Yeah. >> I I didn't I wasn't a methm smoker. I hate meth, but I was trying to be cool with a meth. [laughter] Okay, I get that. I get that. >> No, it is not cool to have a meth pipe in your mouth. It's much cooler than >> How did you fall asleep with Did they put it in your mouth or how do you fall asleep with them? They put it in your mouth. >> Somebody took so I was asleep. Somebody took their med pipe, put it next to me, and took a picture and then put it online and they then collected all of this stuff. Go back and look at the pictures. Now, there's some that are like me. There's some The sex tapes are real. I took them. It was me. >> Yeah, for sure. And that's confidence. Why Why would they take these pictures? >> But, by the way, here's the reason. I was out of my [ __ ] mind. I mean, just out of my mind. You're so alone. There's nothing even remotely romantic about it. I don't talk about how I make crack to romanticize it. I don't I just all I talk about is addiction and and the whole reason to do any of this. There's 50 million people right now in America and I think it's way more 50 million people are dealing with their own problems and their struggles in uh uh with addiction. Which means that everybody at this table undoubtedly has someone that they care deeply about that has dealt with or is dealing with a life-threatening uh addiction. Everybody. So, we all talk about it like like what the hell happened? Well, I don't know. You know what I mean? Drink a gallon of vodka and smoke um you know about you know three grams of crack, you know, on a in any 24hour period of time. is that you know and so also what happens is you don't there's no one normal to associate with once you're in that >> right >> and so what you're around are people that are very very predatory >> who who are you associating with >> mainly strippers and and and everything that comes around that and and I'm not denigrating anybody that is an exotic dancer in any way but that is where Yeah, [laughter] >> for real. >> It's party and play. >> But by the way, but that is where you find access to drugs. That's where you find access to company. That Yeah. And and and that is where you have there's no confusion, >> right, >> about what your relationship is and and and so you end up in this world of this culture in which everything is a um uh is what you what what you can get from the other person. And often times it was, you know, I mean, like I'm positive like I know reporters have said that, you know, people were selling them photographs in into this, you know, into this thing. And >> so anyway, regardless I the other side of it was the other thing is that, you know, the um you know, yeah, there's some sex tapes in there that then they're all mine. >> Go back. I'm so sorry. And I don't want to seem like a weirdo. I'm just curious. I've always been curious how people film themselves >> humping. Did you >> go back and watch yourself humping? >> Study the tape. No. >> You never went It's like when you film fireworks. Nobody goes back and looks at the fireworks. >> No. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But by the way, here's the thing, man. Is it You know what is it? Would I do that sober? >> No. But here and the other part of it is so but am I the first person to, you know, freak >> film themselves making a a sex tape? >> Nothing wrong with that. Not even like I don't know like why Tommy Lee and and when what's your name do it? Why did why did you know I mean like what whatever and I certainly if not Tommy Lee but my point is is that when you're addicted to crack I it is never look look my drug use can never be um uh an excuse >> okay never an excuse for any of the behavior. I'm accountable for all of it. No matter what, it's still me. Whether I was out of my [ __ ] mind or not. Got it. >> But it is an explanation. >> Sure. Yeah. I love to do that. >> And And by the way, it's not it's not an explanation that I know that you're not um uh that we all aren't like hopefully willing to um uh have the grace to um to extend to the people that we love. >> Yeah. in order not to forever shame them or tell them that they have to wear the scarlet a of addiction for the rest of their life >> because otherwise nobody [laughter] I I am and by the way I am I the the beautiful so to end of your to get to the very end >> of what your question is >> how did I react to the laptop coming out at first it was paralyzing it was awful and leading into two weeks before the election and I'm thinking, "Oh my god." You know, in an election which we all know that there's going to be, you know, on the margins regardless of whether we won by, you know, 8 million votes or whatever the hell it is, it always comes down to, you know, hundreds of thousands of votes in these states. And and it was like not only am I going going to [ __ ] this up for my dad, the person who I adore most in the world, but I'm going to [ __ ] it up for the whole world. Like this is like if you were on the other side of this election, you were voting thinking like this is like existential. >> [ __ ] And so I just am like and the first thing your brain tells you no matter how far out you are can be less in terms of the intensity is I know how you shouldn't feel how you can get out of feeling this way >> but you better do it because if you don't do it I mean your brain literally telling you this the thing for you to relapse at that time. >> I don't know you know I I mean I don't know because I choose not to like uh to to go back there. I don't know. Have you ever listened to Chase Hughes? Have you? >> He's been on the show. That's it. >> He's amazing. He just did a video. Uh I mean, he just did he dropped this uh thing a day ago um two days ago about memory and how there is no such thing as memory. Every time we go back and think of it, it there is no original recording. We tape over it every time and whatever the last recording is is becomes the memory until you take >> you're rewriting it as opposed to it. >> So I don't know how close I was. I choose to say today my memory of it is this is the morning after it came out and it was on the front page of the New York Post and there's a naked picture of me like you know with all that stuff. Okay. and then filled with naked pictures behind it. And it's everywhere. And I'm not on social media at this time, so I don't I don't know about that part of it, but it's everywhere. [gasps and sighs] I uh I couldn't sleep all night and I uh but like 6:00 in the morning, my six-month-old is up and we and I had to do our routine, you know. And I rolled over in bed and I looked at this woman who had saved my life. Beautiful woman in every way that had saved my life and this perfect little angel. I was like like you got a choice. >> Yeah. I mean and and what a gift that is, you know, to h most everything in life from my experience is is like, yeah, you could do this or you could do that. >> Like to me it became you either do this and live or you die. >> Because can you imagine if I relapsed in I mean I would be so dead. The level of shame that I would have had there's no there would have been no way to hide it. There would have been no I would have literally it would have been I the faster way would have been to take a gun to my head >> that would have and and but I >> but I was wholly cognizant of at the time and what a [ __ ] gift that is >> because you know what most people have to go through it and you know fight their way to like you know go spend seven years in Rishiash and and >> you did the Navy Seal hell week equivalent. Yeah, exactly. What did you do for me? What did I do? I just chose to live, man. Oh. Oh, the when I >> You're kicked. Did you go to rehab >> in June of 2019? >> Yeah. >> No, I had gone to so many rehabs. Melissa, she's like, "It ends now." And like within a week of her saying that, you know, I was off crack. And then within like 3 weeks of that, I had my last drink and it was hard. the the alcohol is the is the most frightening part of um of re of uh of detox because you can actually die from uh from withdrawing from alcohol and like with benzo the same thing which is like freeze-dried alcohol basically because it >> it impacts every organ in your body. Alcohol does every pleasure center of your brain. [gasps] The crack cocaine is um you know three days and it's out of your system and you know you there's no physiological impact. Maybe a little bit of greyness in the way that you like everything appears to you but um but the alcohol was the hardest part. >> You seem incredibly sharp for somebody that's had pretty protracted addiction for a long time. You know why is that I I benefit from the advantage of the lowest expectations of probably any guest you've ever had. >> He's [ __ ] upright and cognizant. >> Exactly. Like oh my god, I disagree. You're you're a sharp guy. You're you're very I would have assumed totally pickled. >> Yeah. I don't Exactly. Maybe maybe it preserved the the parts. >> Oh, like Yeah. Like putting in >> formaldahhide. Yeah, exactly. But I don't know. I I um you know, but here's the thing about that is like, you know, the smartest [ __ ] people I know are recovering addicts, >> you know. Um and um >> not all say there's a couple. >> There's a few in there. Did you ever uh do you ever think that your dad might not give you the pardon? >> Oh yeah. If he if he had won, he wouldn't have pardoned me. >> Damn. >> He 100%. >> That's you would have been grounded basically. I mean, by the way, [laughter] >> yeah, >> 50s in my 50s and I've growned again. Yeah. >> I mean, that's high stakes. >> But he did such a good job. I mean, I think, you know, you were talking earlier, we all have we all know people Yeah. >> who have just like when someone is in active addiction. It is it's like it's like having a honey badger, but it's in your family just eating everything up. And I remember your dad was so loving to you. Like it was he was so sweet with you. And that's really hard to do because when it's someone's like, you know, addicts ruin >> not just their own life, they ruin like communities. They ruin and they do it again and again. Everybody, >> it's like a nuclear bomb dropping. >> It's a nuclear bomb and you don't know what to do. It's like a demon has possessed somebody. 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Right now, you can get up to 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livemus.com/modernwisdism and using the code modernwisdom a checkout. What are the coolest things about your dad that nobody knows? or that you wish more people knew. >> H that's a tough one because uh you know people know so much or at least they think that they know so much. I think the thing about my dad that is uh that I wish more people knew is how genuine he truly is about how much he loves people. You know, I I give you an example is that I think my dad since he's been in public life and the number has has just only grown over the course of time, but probably has um you know a dozen or you know more people um kids that um uh that he's met at rope lines or people have written a letter that stutter that call my dad and spend a half an hour on the phone with him, you know, once a month, you know, >> doing that voice coaching. >> Yeah. Just letting them know that, you know, don't be defined by this. You, you know, I mean, as he says, he tells every one of them is that, you know, stuttering it, it's it's because you're so smart and, you know, I mean, I like he listen to him [gasps] and he I mean, nobody knows that. Um, uh, and he doesn't, it's not like he advertises that, but I've gotten so many now that I'm on social medium, which is, you know, I don't know how long that's going to last, but the, uh, um, >> yeah, something else to drop. [laughter] >> No, no. I mean, just like like, God, I'm late. Actually, >> it looks like you're having a good time on that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Parts of it I am. No, I am. What? >> But, um, can I ask you just uh, so when you were So, no, not you. when your dad was running and everyone was going and I'm not trying to be a dick one. It was like seemed visibly like obvious that he was getting a little too old I think to like actually be the president. Like there were signs unless it was just a TV. There were signs of cognitive decline. I felt bad. I was like why are they doing this to this guy? Why? Like that that seems like insane that we would like anyone who's in their mid 80s be like yeah get out there and just have like the most important discussion ever. >> Yeah. Well, look, I think that there are uh I think part of that's fair and part of that is is uh your algorithm. Now, here's what I mean by that. My dad got old. >> He got old before everybody's eyes. He literally lost a step. He started to um uh get his gate shortened, which was very much noticeable. He never had a uh a incident like the debate before or after. I mean it truly and it's not like I'm saying that and you don't have uh uh thousands of hours of tape on either side of that debate of my dad in front of a camera. And what you're talking about, I think, is kind of like the Fox News, you know, like getting Joe Biden like this, you know what I mean? >> No, it wasn't it wasn't that it wasn't >> tripping at the tripping at the thing. But regardless, okay, but to answer your question, >> yeah, >> he got older. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Do do I am I 100% certain that he was capable of continuing to make the uh decisions and do the job of actually uh what the president is supposed to do? Yes. Did he have the ability to communicate that to the American people to the degree that he needed to win an election? Maybe, maybe not. >> And um but we'll never know. I >> I agree with you about how I felt, you know, watching that debate. It it really felt and to some degree as well with Trump. Like the guy is old. These people, these are old men. And what you're doing is you're watching >> guys that should be [ __ ] grandad. I'm not saying that you need to [ __ ] retire, whatever. Like, I'm sure people are competent until old age. You're watching people that should be twilight of life enjoying the time with what they've built. >> Like punchrunk boxes being rolled out for one more fight that I'm like, you're trading and it's noble and heroic in some ways. You're trading your health, your uh time, which is increasingly limited on this planet for like the nation. You're just trying to hold this thing. Or maybe it's not the nation, maybe it's a party, maybe it's a duty for the higher good. It's part of the mission. But you're like watching this person basically go, "Okay, I'm going to take this bit of me, which is increasingly precious and shortlived, and I'm going to exchange it in order to serve this [ __ ] engine, >> this massive machine." And I think anyone that's got a soul looked and was like, "Holy [ __ ] that's got to be that's got to be so hard. You've got these two things you want to do." Plus, you like ego still exists. Can I add to that? Like, and again, I think what is rotten, I don't mean rotten, but what must be very hard about your incarnation is that you people dissect your family and you and it's and I'm I'm so sorry because it sounds insensitive, but when I saw your dad, I just thought, you know, I don't think I'd want to take a road trip with him driving. And if I don't feel comfortable with somebody driving a car with me, >> I don't want them to have access to a nuclear arsenal, man. or and all the quick decisions you have to make. >> Can I ask I get your point, okay? And I get everybody's point. All right. >> Yeah. We're not slamming your dad. That's >> No, no, no. >> And and it wasn't like, oh, [ __ ] It wasn't. Damn, this is sad. >> As it relates to uh decisions that my dad made, they weren't mine, but I I'm willing to talk about them. As it relates to his age, it was it's in it's it's all public. So, I don't I don't take it as a criticism. It is a conversation that by the way we're all going to have as you have a aging America >> in which people are capable of continuing to do the thing that they are professional at with the wisdom and the experience that they have in which their physical appearance and their physical capacity to do things slows down. Okay. >> Yeah. And so, but here's the other side of it is the job of being president is not purely about competence, experience, and wisdom. It is also about the capacity for you to communicate that >> to people. >> So, what he did not communicate to people was that he could drive the car, >> right? >> And that's a fair criticism. It absolutely 100% is fair. Now, should he have stepped aside for who and what? Because remember what you're coming off of. You're coming off of January 6. You're coming off of the pandemic. You're coming off of the incredible dislocation and disruption of an economy in which everything went offline for a period of time in which it created the largest uh uh unemployment in this history and and and potential of a recession. And you're also coming across this incredible success of two years in which all of that competence and wisdom. Remember when he became president that said he'll never get a bill passed that Congress is too close. He only had uh one uh seat in the Senate and he had four seats in the House. There's no way that he'll ever get anything done. He passed more legislation in a 2-year period of time than any president since Lyndon Johnson, who had super majorities in both the House and the Senate. Anybody. He had the best midterms of any sitting president since uh FDR in 1932. He won more state houses and governor governorships. The smallest number of congressional seats lost of any president since 1932. So he's rolling off of these successes, okay? And opens up to a primary. And who runs? There's no bigger name than Bobby uh Bobby Kennedy. There's nobody. this whole idea that there's a democratic well it's like since the beginning of time of course there's a democratic establishment and and whatever and so he makes what ends up depending upon your perspective the fateful decision to um you know to stand for reelection and then comes the debate and I can't explain it I truly can't everybody can have their conspiracy theories everybody can think that oh that's how he is but I can all I can say is not a single person that worked with him on the record has gone and said Joe Biden wasn't cognitively capable to be president of the United States. You can definitely make the argument of whether he was cognitively capable of or communicatively capable of of uh making the case to the American people. >> But here's where we, you know, stand. And the one last thing about this is that when it came time to make the decision, okay, after you know the the what I call the the insider, the true insider, the the um the elite class of the Democratic establishment, because the DNC is not that. There's no, it's like the money people. It's the people that fund the party. Okay? when they made the determination that they wanted Joe Biden out and basically said, "We are going to fight you all the way to the convention because they couldn't take it away from him legally. I mean, he was the nominee." >> Yeah. >> Um, you know, period. And um [snorts] and he got co there's that horrible picture of him getting back on the plane and and um because he passed all the hurdles. He did the Stephanopoulos interview for an hour and 10 minutes. He did the NATO summit um press conference for an hour and 30 minutes and answered every question, you know, a tour to forest global lake history lesson for everybody and then he did the NAACP um uh uh convention speech and and all of that stuff and he went to do the next morning he gets CO and it wipes him out and he has to make a decision that I don't know of any other president or any other person in that position. ision has ever made before to voluntarily without being forced to without having any legal authority of saying I'm going to step aside. >> And I think that's really courageous. I don't think history is treating that uh I think history will treat that well, but also I think my dad hung the moon. So, you know what I mean? It's not like I'm I'm I'm biased in any way. >> What was that stat about your dad being the poorest president since 1900? >> Yeah. Um my dad entered the presidency and left the presidency with fewer assets than anybody since I think uh what was it or who came up maybe? No. But regardless is that when 1972 when my dad got elected he was 29 years old. He was too young to serve um when he was elected um by virtue of the constitution and he turned 30 and and when he uh in between the time he was he won and when he was sworn in and he made that he made a promise during that campaign that he would never own a stalker bond for the single purpose of reason that Spiro Agnu had just gone through uh that you know had gotten impeached and removed before Nixon ever got impeached >> and Um, and he kept that. So, he lived off his salary, which by the way wasn't a bad salary, but just remember in 1972 it was like $48,000 a year and then it went up to 68,000 and then when I was in, you know, school it was like $150,000 >> from Nancy Pelosi. >> Yeah. But but yeah, but my point is this, my dad entered the vice presidency that way. The only time my dad ever made money, you know, the Biden crime primary [ __ ] My dad wrote a book and what did he do with the money that he wrote a book out when he left the vice presidency? He didn't go out and make speeches for private equity firms and fly to Saudi Arabia and you know sit on the board of uh you know XYZ hedge fund or whatever. He wrote a book and he bought my mom a beach house in Rhobit you know. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. And then he went into the presidency and the with the savings from that money and his pension and he left the presidency. And the only thing my dad has done to make money is he wrote a book. And you know, I don't know about you, but that's what I want my president to be like. you know, I don't need them to go out and start a S foundation with Saudi and, you know, UAE money or um you know, do a um a dodgy crypto deal and blah blah blah. Particularly while they're still president, [gasps] but that's my dad >> phone. >> What? >> You forgot the phone. >> What about the sneakers? What about the things? Look, by the way, he takes all these cool things. Like, I'm I'm a big crypto fan. Have you got one? >> They suck. >> What? >> Have you got one? >> As a joke, my wife ordered me the Trump sneakers. other Trump sneakers. >> They're not good for They're not Peter Teal ordered you the TRUMP SNEAKER. [laughter] >> MY DEAREST FRIEND, I DON'T PLEASE CUT THAT OUT. PLEASE. You don't understand. [laughter] >> I love it. >> You challenged Don Jr. and Eric to a twoon-one cage fight. >> What's happening with that? >> Are you guys in my corner? I'm going. >> Are you really fighting them? >> No. >> I mean, I haven't heard back, but I will tell you this. I will tell you this >> is that >> I I said, "Well, number one, it would be a great way to pay my debt." You know what I mean? I think it would be great on pay-per-view. [laughter] Literally, and if Shane could fill uh Franklin Field or not Franklin Field, uh the link, you know, I swear to God, I think that I could at least get half the number of people there. Um uh >> there would be a lot of people, I think. >> Yeah, I think so, too. >> 2v1's. >> Just the chance to smack either one of them. I'm 56. I'm You guys really do. Have you got Who have you been in contact? Can you Can we prank call Don Jr. right now? Have you got his number? Can we just ring him? I don't have Don Jun's number. I have no ide [laughter] Please stop. >> Yeah. >> I I have a question. This is sort of off. I've always been curious. >> What is it? I like I the president has some kind of apartment in the White House, right? Where the where what's that like? Like what's it like, you know, it's >> Oh, the residence. >> Yeah. Every kid >> Yeah. >> kind of thinks like, man, I wish my dad was president. That's going to be cool. You get to go into the residence. You get to see >> cool. It's so cool. It's so amazing. The people that work there that are there. Yeah. and and they're they're incredible and they're wonderful and they've been there for decades on some of them and and uh and there's like for me at least in their residence and and every time I went to the White House um >> uh there was never without like a complete sense of awe. >> Did your dad ever cook you a breakfast in there? Like did did they never cook breakfast? >> I there's a kitchen in there. You guys cook an egg just to be okay. Yeah. Now, I'm a great cook, but he would No, >> but there's a kitchenette. I just always wonder about that private life of a >> There's a little There's a little kitchenette off the residence. The residence is on the um uh you know, if you're looking at the front of the White House, you enter into like the main hall. Yeah. Which has the public uh I mean the rooms in which like the the uh >> like the blue, the red room, the green room, the you know where they have some of the steak dinners and stuff like that. where you always see the pictures and the crossall you know the red carpet and the floor above it the two floors above it are the residents and there's the one end of it is all the president's you know like quarters and the first ladies and then there's the Lincoln bedroom the queen's bedroom and then there's a there's like six or eight other bedrooms upstairs for guests and stuff like that >> secret doors >> yeah oh yeah there's secret doors are serious yeah >> did you find them you get shown do you get shown like, "Hey, this is how you [ __ ] >> the doors that are secret that aren't secret anymore." You know what I mean? You see like, "Well, there's a line in that wall." 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Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. >> Did you ever you're ever in the White House and think like it's not as cool as I thought? >> No. >> Really? You're always like this rules. >> Just rules. >> Well, here's what you think. I mean, if you have any kind of like appreciation for where you are, it's like, holy [ __ ] >> Like, >> it's insane. >> Like, not this actual floor because it's been done. Truman did it, you know. I mean it's not the same but it's like on this grounds >> you know the course of history has been um uh changed dozens and dozens and dozens of times and sometimes for good sometimes for real uh ill and and uh >> it's got to be so haunted. >> Yeah, I bet you. >> Is it haunted? Did you ever have any ghost encounters there? Am I ruining this? I'm sorry. This is the direction I want to go in. >> Okay, great. >> Is it haunted? Is there like it's >> Well, I mean like Yeah, they say that. Um, but I I didn't have much. Do >> you ever walk around there at night just like staring at shaving? >> Yeah, 100%. I I I mean all Now, here's the thing is I didn't get to spend much time there. And one of the reasons I didn't get to spend much time there is because every time I was there, it became an incredible distraction. So, I'd show up and I'd go walk on the South Lawn with my dad and the dog and they'd take a picture and it would be on the front page of the New York Post and they would say the indicted or the soon to be indicted or the drug addict's son or the thing. And so it became really really uncomfortable like suck. You [ __ ] your dad has finally made it. This is the opportunity for me to be the son that gets to have presidential pancakes. Yeah. And because of the way that kind of we arrived, I don't get to fully like embrace that. That's going to suck. >> Yeah. You know, but thank you. >> Well, you're not I'm not supposed to be there to have fun. >> No, no. I'm I'm saying Yeah, you are. By the way, if you can't, then it's crazy. I mean, but but thank you for saying that. Um, but I can't say that because like, oh, wo is me. >> You know what I mean? Like, uh, [ __ ] that, dude. My dad's president. My dad works for 50 years to become president. I want [ __ ] pancakes. By the way, there for more than 20 days. 20 25 days, you said out of the entirety of the time you got to stay at the White House. >> Yeah, maybe. And like more. Well, no, probably more than that. Like I think like 30 or 40. >> And I got to go to Camp David and I get to fly in Marine One. And you get to go on Air Force One. every time you do, you think, "Oh my god, this is the coolest thing." And I think if you don't, you're a jackass. I mean, if you lose that, like if you lose like walking in um uh like walking down the colony to the Oval Office without the feeling of like, "Holy shit." Then I think that you are you >> pretty that's awesome that >> but I didn't get to spend as much time with him >> as as I normally would have if it weren't for the fact >> that I was a crack addict [laughter] >> pictures of it and I was um being investigated by the Department of Justice for um you know this that and the other thing >> that bag of coke at the White House wasn't yours? >> No. Okay. How how upset are you that someone else found it? [laughter] >> Okay, I've I've literally I've listened to all of you. I've [laughter] listened to you have your guest on and you're all like I don't know. I don't know. It could have been his, but I guess not. Who's do you think it was? Cuz it's [ __ ] someone. >> I have no clue. So, who's the hit list? >> Pull up a diagram of the >> Who's the [ __ ] biggest hit list >> of the of the White House? Okay, >> let's say >> diagram of White House. Are you going to place the bag of cocaine? >> How big was the sack? How big were we talking? >> I have no idea. I mean, it didn't come to me and say, "Hunter, we want to show you this." >> Well, you could have Hunter, come here. >> We're aware that you might be able to trace where this came from. Here we go. >> Okay. So, if you look at the Okay, so you see there, see where it says White House in the middle? Yes. Okay. So, the West Wing is where the Oval Office is. The White House is where the residence is. I am under Secret Service protection during this period of time. When I enter the White House, I enter off of the South Lawn, which is the big ellipses. You know what I mean? Like the the circular driveway on on the on the southern part. Okay. So, you enter the White House through the um uh middle what? >> Through the middle. >> Right. Right through the middle. And right as you go through the middle, you go to an elevator and you go up to the residence. Okay. That is how the Secret Service brings me in and they and they're with me like as far as you are from me everywhere I go outside of making it to the elevator to that um uh to go up to the second floor. >> Not the bathroom. If you want to do key bumps, you can go in the bathroom. >> Other than the bathroom. Yeah. Okay. >> True enough. But thank you for pointing that out. That was very helpful, [ __ ] I swear to God. >> Where was it found? Where was Now, now room wasn't. Yeah. So see where it says West Exec Avenue. Yeah. Okay. So that's where everybody else that is a part of the administration comes into the White House. So the Eisenhower Executive Office Building is where 90% of the people that say they work at the White House work. >> Okay? And when they come over to for meetings with the chief of staff or the director of national intelligence or whoever else is in the West Wing, they come through there. And when you go through there, you enter in on the ground floor. Above you is the chief of staff's office and the oval office. Okay? And on that ground floor, as soon as you walk in, there's a desk. There's another Secret Service agent, a uniform Secret Service agent. And if you go on the other side of that desk and take a right, there's a hallway. In that end of that hallway is the situation room of which I've never been in because you're not allowed into the [ __ ] situation room unless you have top secret clearance. >> Hey dude, the [ __ ] president the president's son doesn't get to hang in the situation. >> And in that right in front of that door is a set of cubbies. Okay. And the only reason I know that is it because if you go to your left, there's a little cafeteria. Like not even it's like table set up for like the chief of staff and their offices to come have like a bowl of soup or whatever to eat. [gasps] The in those cubbies is where they found it and supposedly found a little bag of cocaine. >> Bowl of soup. >> Number one, I'm not joking around. Okay. And I don't know how much of it is. >> You should be like, I do fat sacks only. >> Yeah. By the way, not only that is I smoke crack, [laughter] >> too. Here's the >> I smoke crack. >> I will say this though, >> but by the way, I've now at this point I'm not in the White House when it's found. I haven't been in the White House for 6 weeks to a month when it's found. All right. >> Although this this does sound like the part in the movie where we're like, you know, we have the diagram. It sounds like we're planning on how we could >> in the White House. >> You know, they go through like the ducks in the movie. [laughter] >> No, it doesn't, man. >> You know what? That's why you went to Sally's and I went to Archer. Okay. Exactly. >> Rivals forever. >> Yes. Exactly. There's a duct on the south lawn. You open it up. There's >> literally [laughter] >> this is never going to die. Okay. I don't By the way, and what? Here's the other thing. >> I don't think it was yours. I generally >> No, but here's the other thing. It's like, are you [ __ ] kidding me? Like I will I I'll openly talk about having sex on camera with a prostitute in New Haven, Connecticut at all I [ __ ] 95 smoking a a crack, but like I like a pump. It's so funny. >> I mean, it's so ridiculous. The conspiracy drives me insane. Now, look, [laughter] that's like you want to talk about things that online that's insane. You have your friendship with Peter Teal to deal with. I have [laughter] not Peter Teal. We are not friends. >> Like, [ __ ] great. >> Great. This is the last. You know what? I literally, this is how obtuse I am. I was like, "Oh, that's weird." >> [laughter] >> kind of went about my day. I was I was what four or five years sober by this point. I haven't like I'm like And by the way, like I'm thinking like who like if I relapse No. Oh, here's the other thing. >> I'm being drug tested. But you know who I'm being drug tested by? The Federal Bureau of [ __ ] Probation who's [ __ ] showing up at my house. >> They watch you pee >> two or three times a week without not telling anybody. They had a deal with the Secret Service. They just walk into my they walk into your house like 6:00 a.m. Knock on your bedroom door >> and they they watch you, right? Like a >> Oh, yeah. And then they walk you into the bathroom and close the door with them standing like this >> watching watching you [ __ ] >> Yeah, you can't use the wizator. You could use the Wizator technically. Not even that. The Wizator. >> Oh yeah. >> What's the Wizator? >> Wizator's like a fake penis. >> I had the Wizator when I went to [laughter] the Navy. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Uh you need the Wiz. Is >> it true that you still pack your bag with a witness? Is it Are you still doing that? You have to pack your bags. >> Yeah. >> Have you heard this? >> Yeah. It's a It's called a wife. They watch you. That's why you're bringing in. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> It's true. I swear to God. I got in the Melissa. I got in a little discussion before I left her here. I said, [laughter] she said, "You can fit it all in the backpack." I said, "I'd like my little rolly bag to put my backpack on top." She said, "Why are you taking without fail?" >> But what are the wides pushing for more storage? >> It doesn't matter. They go either that's too much or that's no matter what you pack there. >> That's too little. >> Right. By the way, I just want to make clear, Melissa, I did not use the voice that Matt is doing. >> Yeah, I get in trouble. I get in trouble. [gasps] >> I usually get cart. It's so [laughter] mad. It's so I don't sound like that. >> Yeah, that's that's an ongoing >> problem. Well, here's the thing is that um uh is the reason is and only when I travel internationally is the that if it's out of my sight. I just think that look, could you imagine if uh I got pulled over and they found drugs, you know, on me? Who would believe me? >> Yeah. >> Like if you can't believe me about that, right? >> Yeah. >> The 9,000 times that I've said, "Are you out of your mind? I wasn't there. You can check on the fact that I wasn't there. You can see that it wasn't it like it was in front of the I mean like all of these things too small. Can you imagine, >> you know? Yeah. Right. Like what what would you do? And and >> and you know also here's the other thing. Do you put it past any of these guys for [ __ ] like that? >> No way. The plant it could have been dropped for sure like dude drop it down. >> Yeah. So um you know I want like here here like I the the thing that I am uh I want all the questions like there's nothing off limits. I want to I want to be able because the the thing that I think is the the only value that I have truly because you don't have to agree with my politics. You don't have to agree what I think about Donald Trump. You don't have to agree that well I hope everybody agrees that [ __ ] that Beus and Butudad are total douchebags. Don and Eric but is that you don't have to agree with any of this fighting >> talk and but it's so true. Go look at >> Okay. [laughter] >> What's their deal? I don't know anything about them. >> Uh just jerks. >> Well, they're rich jerks now. Like really really rich jerks. But the um uh is it the one thing that I that I like and just to be like a symbol like [ __ ] it. I made it even like you can too. Like if if I >> could stay clean and sober >> Mhm. >> through all of that [ __ ] and um and get on the other side of an addiction that you can go look at how [ __ ] awful it was. >> Mhm. um is that it's like I just think like for that reason alone to be out here talking to people and to show that I can sit upright in a chair and I can write about it and I can talk about it without any um shame. That doesn't mean I don't feel guilty about [ __ ] >> Yeah. Doesn't mean that I made horrible decisions and absent myself from my family and my children in particular. doesn't mean that I'm even remotely perfect in in my recovery, >> you know, and uh but you know, there is another there is getting to the other side of stuff. Um and being transparent about it isn't a uh a weakness. It's a it's a it's a strength. >> You are everywhere at the moment. Are you would you ever consider running for office? Is there a thrust that this is working towards? I mean, people I I I'm I'm even honored you would you would ask that with a straight face because um I I I really am. Um because think about that. Think about asking that question, you know, before May 21st of this year when I went on X for the first time. Um uh and so I I I really appreciate that if it was said with sincerity, but you know, I tell people if you if if I announce for something within the next few years, then you will certainly know that I've relapsed. [laughter] Yeah. >> But I do think there's something universally respectable about someone who goes through I mean it's everyone can agree that's every I would say everyone's worst nightmare and just can like face the public and talk usually. I think most people would run away from that just be like I'm out. I'm just going to Yeah. >> kind of hide away now. So what what are you working towards though cuz I mean you are making the rounds. What's uh what do you have designs to do? >> I don't know. I'm trying to I I really am. I I am I got some things that I mean I'm writing on Substack and I and I uh I wrote um a continuation of the like me like the last seven years you know from my personal perspective and then I wrote another one thank you very much AI um uh to that uh that allowed me to um take all of the um collective congressional reports and and um and reporting journalism and kind of like what happened of in those seven years of the things that I wasn't in the room for like the Giuliani plot and that thing and so I wrote >> wrote that um but the one thing that I really really want to do is uh I think that one of the ways in which people uh at least for me I know this is how it helped me is the single the thing that helped me most in my recovery was sharing like hearing other people's stories is realizing that you you weren't alone in whatever you thought that depravity was that you were living in and and like the I remember the first time I sat in the room thinking there's no way that I'm going to be able to share this with another human being and like the guy next to me like tells a story and I'm like >> holy holy [ __ ] [laughter] oh my god it made me blush and I'm like hey you know like then it becomes kind >> it's going to be a very impressive story to out degenerate you >> me. Yes, exactly. Yeah. >> Was it a global incident though? Did it move stock markets? Did it change an election? True. >> You know who I talk like the reason I and this is why I love him is the openness with which Theoban talks about and stuff like that. I was listening to your interview with Theo and there's like one part where Anyway, it Yeah. [laughter] I don't even want to go through it because Oh, yeah. I don't remember. >> Yeah. But but there um I have no idea what you're talking about. >> What the hell? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, it's I think it's better off to get as much out as possible cuz it's I don't know. >> Yeah. >> It's good. It's good. I think it's good for you. It's good for everybody. >> The thing that kills you if you're an addict, at least from my experience, is you keeping that like secret and you that shame and there's a big difference between shame and guilt. You know, shame is basically the thing that tells you that you're not worthy of love and you never will be. Guilt is like an appropriate emotion in which you do something wrong, you got to go make amends for it. >> If you live in that shame and you're never able to like like let it go because it's a secret, you know, uh I mean just crack just talking about being a crack addict automatically sends at least people that are, you know, relatively our age into a freaking tail spin. Yeah. like their mind goes to >> Why do you think that is? >> Oh, I think it's number one. I think it is u it has to do with the connection to race that was created as it relates to to the crack epidemic of the early 1990s. It has to do with the reality of the way in which it impacted um certain uh communities, particularly the African-American community. >> Do you buy the CIA was flooding Yeah. >> communities with cocaine on purpose? That that was real. Remember when they found that CIA plane full of coke? >> What's the What's the story behind that? Cuz I've heard it, but I I don't actually know the story. Do you know it? >> I don't know the story to the degree that I should. But I look, I mean, if you want to understand like the crack from a like a uh is watch the wire, you know what I mean? Like what is that season? You know, what >> is that not fictional though? >> It is fiction, but if you really want to understand the way that >> I think the writer was a journalist though, Dan B. I could be wrong. I think he George Pelicanos was one of the writers on that and then what's his name? But the but yeah, I mean it's all ripped from the pages kind of stuff. >> And my only point is is it really did destroy >> um entire communities. Um but it didn't have to do with what they thought it did. They thought that it was particular to the physiological effect that crack had on people. That's where the lie is. It had to do with the um uh the financial uh aspect of the drug is that you could sell and make very cheaply and over and over and over again and small quantities and you just create this um uh this market that was insatiable to feed. And so it was the violence was occurring because of the unfettered drug trade. There was so much money in it. Um and if you lived for instance like I did in the in the in the the late 80s early 90s in Washington DC it was I mean it just ripped through Washington. you had, you know, uh, and and what ripped through Washington was the violence that came along with the trade and the enforce and the and the attempt to enforce the drug laws. And so they would crack down on communities um and uh end users rather than uh the people truly committing the violence which were the dealers and and you know up the chain and up the chain >> I'm certain involved uh you know some covert operation as related to it and that didn't have anything to do with the intent of like ripping apart our cities but had some other intent. What what do you think is or you know >> just to get just a way to get untraceable money or something like that like that CIA was selling I I I'm honestly I'm not up to date on that conspiracy but remember they found a CIA plane full of blow >> which was insane like they're trading it to get cash. So just like the just like the Iran contract, you know what I mean? Is like the the I mean it all about um ways to move money and to move um uh uh weapons um in an untraceable way. And in order to be able to do that, you like end up going into business with, you know, the really bad guys, you know, or looking the other way when you know they're doing what they're doing. >> I've learned from over a thousand podcast episodes that the easier you make your health routine, the more consistent you'll be. It's like golf, right? You want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills. You want the eye of the tiger, not the DUI of the tiger. That's why I'm such a huge fan of AG1. One scoop contains 75 vitamins, minerals, probiotics, and whole food source ingredients in a single daily drink. And now they've taken it a step further with AG1 NextG, backed by four clinical trials. And in those trials, it was shown to fill common nutrient gaps, improve key nutrient levels in just 3 months, and increase healthy gut bacteria by 10 times, even in people who already eat well. 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[laughter] >> That wasn't what I meant. >> JD Vance talking about the cat lady, the doll thing. remember, >> right? Right. I'm meaning like supernatural, spiritual, put hex's on you. >> Oh, >> I mean like actual witches, >> dude. Are there some here right now? >> I think everyone's got a couple of conspiracies that they kind of hold in their minds and they're like, I kind of believe this. >> Okay, I've got one. And if I could, and again, apology, >> if it has to do with the [ __ ] coke in the white [laughter] you done, >> here's a conspiracy. Here's a conspiracy theory that you must be aware of that floats around about you. >> And again, forgive me for this, but I must know. On your back. >> Oh, yeah. >> You have a tattoo of the finger legs. >> And people say that this is tattooed on your back because the finger legs are apparently one of the number one ways that like humans are trafficked and that you have placed You didn't know this? >> Please, can we Oh my god. Oh man. >> You don't go online. You don't go pull up Hunter Biden finger legs tattooing. Everybody's asking me what are the what what's the tattoo? >> Yes. What's a finger? >> You think that you have a map a human trafficking map? >> I do. So the finger legs are these glacier lakes and the most beautiful lakes in the country. And they are um in upstate New York. >> My mother, my deceased mother came from Skinny Atlas, New York. And then the lake next to it is a Wasco lake. in Aasco. At the top of Aasco Lake is a town named Auburn where the Hunter Diner is. And my grandfather and uh and my grandmother owned and ran the Hunter Diner which is still there. It's just like a silver diner. And um and uh that's where my mother grew up and that's where my brother and I spent every summer with my my mom's dece my my deceased mother's um grandparents. And so it's like the most special place in the world to me. Fingerlakes. what you're saying >> and I was >> not what I'm saying. >> What the internet is saying. What I've read. >> Okay. I don't understand where you traffic because they're all landlocked. Where do you travel? >> Look up Fingerlakes traffic. Don't don't come. It's such a beautiful place. What are you going to do this for? >> Fingerlakes human trafficking. >> Oh my god. I'm serious. [gasps] >> I didn't know this. I don't want to know this. >> It's also so funny to be doing that and be like, I'm going to tat it just in case people need to know. [laughter] >> Wow. Tattooing a map on your back. It's like the count of money cristo or something like just in case the traver needs something they can rip it off my body. >> It's like if you get lost it's like please return >> to [laughter] >> like like a dog collar just in case you get lost somewhere sweet story. Yeah that's so my um >> I didn't believe that by the way. I just it's a conspiracy theory that >> I never heard that one. That's what you must you must story again to see something conspiracy theories. I'll be honest, I I when I was younger, I I remember when uh what was the one documentary that came out? It was the Ring of Power came out when I was like 21. And you know, you're 21 years old, you just got out of college, and there were like DVDs that would go around and be like uh England, Washington DC, and Rome are all connected in this triacle of satanic power. And you just watch it at 21, you're like, damn, the world's crazy. And then you get older and you're like, yeah, I don't think anyone knows what the [ __ ] going on about anything. So, in terms of conspiracy theories, I honestly don't really >> Are you Do you believe remote viewing? That's >> I mean, I'll give you one. >> Oh, here we go. >> I'll give you one that I believe. Read The Devil's Chessport, which is an incredible book about the Devil's Brothers. And it's hard not to come away with a um with a belief that it was not a CIA operation, but that CIA um assets were involved in the assassination of JFK. It's really really difficult to to to not um uh to explain >> what's the most compelling >> uh elements of that >> the individuals and I forget their names. Um I wish I like had that kind of memory but that uh that were were very very um close to Alan Dulles. Dis's hatred of um of JFK and um and the the I mean anyway there's there there's a lot >> and I because I don't I I I don't want to say something that I get it I get it wrong and they'll be like Honor Biden's promoting it you know he's like Oliver Stone or whatever. You're saying the CIA killed? >> No, I'm not. >> Are you saying the operatives within the CIA killed? >> It's very difficult to see how there is not a um that there that there wasn't knowledge within the CIA of an operation to assassinate. >> So you're saying you know that the CIA killed you're saying you know the CIA [laughter] killed JFK. >> I keep going with the Peter Teal [ __ ] >> Exactly. >> That that one's that one's almost common place. >> I got that for the rest of life. I do have a subst I have a I have a a ex account >> Twitter account. >> Hey, I just came from modern wisdom and this is what I learned. >> Aliens. Aliens in Area 51. That's >> Yeah. What about the aliens? >> No, I don't like I'm I'm with Elon on that one. >> I don't I I don't I don't I don't I don't think that they're uh like I think if there were aliens that I I believe that there there must be. I mean the that the size and the scope of the universe is beyond anyone's even remote comprehension and uh but I don't >> I don't think any of uh >> well what about all those UAPs they're showing all these what do you think is going on with this like you know I so here's a I don't know if this is even a conspiracy Trump's in the Epstein files what 6,000 plus times >> that's not a conspiracy >> that's not that's real and then right after that >> he releases the UAP f people are saying that's was some sad attempt at a distraction. But regardless, they keep releasing all this formally classified information regarding whatever this phenomena is. And that's real. I mean, that is happening. I 100% agree with that that that is all a distraction um from what we're what we know to be a a fact which is that Donald Trump name is in the Epstein files as much or more than any other person's name other than Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. And here's the the the here's one that I believe. I think that KQanon was a scop to distract us from Epstein. I think that the that Andrew Callahan, you guys listen to Andrew Callahan. Yeah. He's brilliant. Andrew is literally one of the most brilliant journalists that I've ever come across just as a as a person and just really brilliant. And his theory is is that if you look at QAnon and what they were saying, you know, Piggate and that there's a, you know, a cabal of, you know, Democrats and things like that, it was to distract you from the actual very very real story of Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein and um and what every not everybody [gasps] people in in in the major intelligence communities knew was going on or were participating. I was going to say cuz Qanon was way way way before the Epstein files, right? >> Yeah. >> Did they ever figure out who that was like at all? >> Oh, no. Q. No. >> Cuz some Weren't some of the pictures were some of them actually of like close-ups of politicians or was it just all >> [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> I wanted to believe so badly. Remember? >> Well, think about that. Son of former president, right? You've been in trouble for smoking crack, gun charges. How does it feel to not be in the Epstein files? Feel good. Does that like give you a kind of moral high ground of the rest of the elite world? >> You know what even feels better is that okay 22 years of my digital footprint okay every single text message every single email every single photograph every single voicemail that was erased or deleted that they were able to pull up. There's not one instance that you will find in which you will see an email from me to anyone else saying, "Hey, dad," or, "Hey, so and so who works for dad, I need you to do this for me on behalf of a client. I'm getting paid for it." >> Did I mention one single time? >> Did I mention I'm friends with Peter Teal? You see, [laughter] >> when it suits him, so all of >> we have that information. >> That uh that is that's a fair point. What is the whole what's your take on everyone's fascination with the Burisma stuff? >> Okay. Well, here's take a one. >> Is that Masa.com? >> Ukraine. No. [laughter] Yeah. Exactly. Ukraine is a is a is a Viper D. >> And it was stupid of me to go on to the board. But when I went on to the board, you got to remember it was the there was a year and a half left in the Obama administration. My brother had just been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. He was given two years to live. And I get a um Devin Archer, this uh the guy that I had considered a great friend who like he's got a pardon from Trump and is out like bashing me like every chance that he gets, comes to me and he says, "Hey, there's this um a Ukrainian gas company. They need help because they're they're they're the reason that Putin is invading the uh uh uh Dawn Pass and the eastern part of of Ukraine." And because they control they have a about 40% of all the natural gas production is comes from Burisma and I and they said they need legal help and so I am uh of council to Boy Shiller Flexner which is one of the most prominent law firms in the world at the time and so I bring them in as a client into Boy Schiller. I do work uh for them. I don't actually do it, but the former head of the National Security A administration who uh deputy NSA director and another person that was chief of staff at the State Department who are partners, I pass it on to them. They do a crawl report. They do all of this background. >> What? What? >> A crawl report. >> Crawl report. Basically doing a background report on the on the company to see if there's have any major criminal investigations or things like that. And after that is all done, I get approached by one of the board members who's a former president of Poland, President Kogeski. And he says, "Hunter, you thank you very much. This has been really helpful to us, you know, from they're a client a law firm." And um he said, "But would you consider coming on the board?" And the reason is is because I believe that just simply by being on the board beyond the fact that you have the capacity now remember I'm on I'm serving on like literally 10 other boards. I'm the chairman of the board of the center for national policy. I'm the chairman of the board of the US UN World War Food Program largest humanitarian organization in the world serving over 70 million 72 million people in 80 countries. Okay. Chairman for over 5 years at this point. I'm chairman of the board of the Truman National Security Project. I'm a professor of uh at at the Georgetown University School of Foreign Service in the Masters program. I am, you know, like I I got the experience to do it and I served as the the vice chairman of the board for over seven years on the largest national passenger rail system in the world, Amtrak. >> What do chairmans of the board do? I'm sorry to sound like an idiot. I've never been on board. What does a board >> do? you are responsible for making certain that the operations and the reporting of particularly a company a public company but often a private company are in order. So it means that you are doing anything from uh uh uh taking the financial reports and making certain that the legal operation is reporting to you and making certain that everybody in the seauite and all the responsibilities reports to the board the independent board and they are tasked with certain decisions based upon the bylaws of that corporation and that's what that's what a board does and so I joined the board >> with an enormous amount of experience and I decided to do it and And I go to the press and I put out a press release saying I just joined this board. And then it's made clear how much I'm getting paid, which is a [ __ ] whole lot of money. >> Yeah. >> And you know what gives me that ability to do is it gives me the ability to not be on the road 8 days a week uh you know trying to you know make a living while my brother is undoubtedly dying. Now this is not Bose fault. I made this decision and it was made purely because of that. >> Yeah. >> That's it. That's the truth. That's a 100% truth. Did my dad do anything ever on behalf of Berisma for me? The act exact opposite. He fired a prosecutor whose name is Shoken. And Shoken is known as the diamond prosecutor because he was in the pocket of all of the oligarchs including the guy that owned Burisma. And he was thwarting any investigation into these organizations. And the entire world community comes and they say to Ukraine through the mouthpiece of my father, they say if you don't fire him, the European Union, the UK, the um uh the World Trade Organization, um the World Bank, they say if if you don't fire Shokin, we are not we're we're no longer going to be continue to provide Ukraine with aid. and my dad delivers the message and and Shoken is fired. [gasps] That's the story. It gets completely turned around. And by the way, twothirds of the time that I'm on the board, my dad is neither president nor vice president. >> Doesn't have any control over over anything. >> But was it smart? [ __ ] obviously not. I mean, like, I'm still sitting here 10 years later, 11 years later, answering questions about it. >> Yeah. And what was the problem really? People assume that it was like they have some strategic position or like >> Exactly. It so bribery. It be it it becomes bribery. Okay. And here's the thing. >> A guy named Alexander Smeirnoff >> introduces into the bloodstream of the FBI as an informant that I took a bribe on behalf of my father for what? I don't know exactly what we're doing for for this company, for Ukraine or whatever. Well, it turns out that Alexander Smeirnoff is a Russian agent and he's serving six years in prison right now because they go back and they look at his story and his story is completely fabricated. And how do they know it's completely fabricated? Because they have me under investigation for for the past seven years. And so when he comes in and he says, "I have tapes of Hunter Biden in Kev talking about taking money with these people and here like you know and I can provide the tapes." They said, 'What are the dates? I've never been to Kee. Justice Department knows I've never been to Keef.' So they ask him to explain like, "Well, what are you talking about?" He goes, "No, no, absolutely. Here's the thing." And they go back and they look at what he said like three years ago and they realize it was an entire Russian op and it was being run by a guy named Andre Durkash and a guy named Telzenko and a guy named Demetri Ferach who have all been either sanctioned or criminally prosecuted not by the Biden administration, by the Trump administration for being Russian agents. Yeah. >> And it all came through them and that becomes the bribery thing. And then you have a guy named Gal Luft who comes along right at the time when I'm about to sign my plea deal. And Gal Luft says from hiding somewhere that uh that he knows that I'm guilty of bribery also. And you know he he he promote well it turns out that Gal left after he makes those comments that he is under indictment not by the United States of America. he is now for being an arms trafficker and a Israeli agent that had been uh um uh uh [gasps] breaking the sanctions as it relates to the Iranian money with Chinese Chinese oil and he is a fugitive from justice that skipped bail basically in Cyprus where he got arrested and is supposedly living in Tel Aviv. spiderweb gets really unwieldy doesn't get and people's eyes glaze over when I talk about it. But that's I mean you have crazy problems like your your life problems craziest problems some >> the last 15 years have really [ __ ] sucked out. >> Oh well here's the other side of it. You know what? I [ __ ] I I can't say that. >> It's been I literally I'm I'm I'm more like absolutely certain that I'm not perfect, but I'm more absolutely certain of who I am and happier every day when I wake up. I wake up at 5:00 in the in the morning every day and I can't wait for the day. >> Yeah. >> Now, sometimes like it's like, you know, like normal life, it's like, "Oh [ __ ] I got to deal with this or that." But the truth of the matter is that I get up at 5:00 and there's not this [ __ ] weight of secrets like hanging on my back. Like I'm going to come talk to you. You know, I used to I would >> I would lose it to have to come and know that there's cameras and talk to four three strangers and come into a room and like feel like I have to perform. And I was trying to think of it and explain to somebody why I don't feel that way other than just the mere practice. Okay. I've thought about it. You know what? It's nothing's an act. I don't have to go and be somebody that I'm not. I don't have to like worry whether you're going to ask me about the hookers in the, you know, why I take pictures of myself when I was whacked out on crack in a motel room as much as I do. I don't have to worry about you saying like, "Well, tell me about the Ukraine thing." I don't have like >> I don't I don't have to be anybody but me. >> And in anybody's life, what a [ __ ] gift. Yeah. >> Yeah. That is nice. >> That's cool. >> Like I don't by the way and not just to the public to the people that I love. >> Most importantly, >> how much of the challenge or the discomfort of addiction and that life is what's going on and how much of it is the shame and the secrecy and the lying? Like cuz physiologically shit's happening to you and you're you're kind of in it and >> but so much of it got to be the story that you tell yourself and the shame and the lying and the guilt and the judgment and the secrets. >> 90% of it in retrospect is that 10% of it the the the physiological piece of it which is real but it's it's solvable. I mean, all you have to do is if if it was purely physiological, all you'd have to do is just kidnap people, hold them for three days in a cell. I mean, literally save their legs. [laughter] That's why the tattoos. >> No, >> there is I I there is something [laughter] >> I love that. I love >> my family. >> You can't have a nice memory. You can't have anything. [laughter] That is the thing you said way way back though is like because the internet is pretty wild. The internet is you know you have a bunch of strangers just yeah commenting on all this stuff >> and there is something about having a kid or just family or friends where you have there's like a point where you have to almost be like all right like >> I'm going to have to put my eggs in the basket of like family in my real life and really tune this stuff out >> cuz it's like we all got thrown into this weird t quasi TV show that like everyone's in and kid it like really messes people up man. Totally. But I've seen it rock people. >> But also just insert in everybody's life and so everybody who's out there an addict realize this is this >> is that like Yeah. me having to to um get honest with strangers is not normal. >> Mhm. >> Do you know what I mean? Like when it becomes like a global thing like I was the number three most spoken about person on Fox News for a 4-year period of time straight. The only two people that were talked about me more talked about more were my dad and Donald Trump. Did you say number three 1.5 articles a day by New York for over a year and a half. Yeah. And the Daily Mail too. Same. So >> that's got to get old. >> My point. Oh my god. >> Well, by the way, so old, by the way, Matt, so old, so ubiquitous. Did you just turn it off? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How do you Oh, wait. Wait. So Oh, no. What I was going to say about that is is that >> getting honest with that, it's like that becomes background noise. The real true gift is is the people that you care about. Getting honest with your partner. Not my now wife, which I didn't ever have to have. I didn't ever have to live in a lie with or her >> or have to. You know what I mean? Like never have to. My but my mom and my dad and always thinking, "Holy [ __ ] if they only knew." Well, now they know. >> Yeah. >> You know what? And you know what I found out? They still love me. It's not like they were proud of me for it, but you know what? They still love me. My daughters still love me. I'm and adore me. I'm positive. You know, my my and like like wow. Like when you get that, you're like, okay, you know what I'm going to do this morning? I'm going to try to do the next right thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm going to try to not do that. >> Yeah. No, that's that's I found that too with like it's it's a different thing, but I used to get panic attacks all the time and I would I would start getting one and be like, "Fuck." And I wouldn't tell anybody. I would just be like, "Fuck, fuck." And you just it's worse and worse the minute you just like tell one person like, "I'm having a [ __ ] panic attack." Like 90% of it goes away. >> They're like, "Dude, take a breath." And you're like, "Yeah, you're right. Fuck." >> It's a perfect analogy. >> It really is. It's like a just a slow grade panic attack all the time. Like, "Fuck, you're seeing my phone." It's like, yeah, it's a bad feeling. But every time you're going through it, the last thing you think is that I want to do that. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> But for me, it's like done. They did it for me. It wasn't any courage on my part. You know what I mean? It wasn't any therapy session on my part. You're liberated. >> Liberated. That's >> unleashed. >> Yeah. >> What was your question, sir? >> You answered it. No, I was just going to I just imagine um >> you know, you have five kids, you know, like that is amazing and like having to like and and that I think is what grounds me and most people is like that's all that all you care about is what your kids and your family think about you ultimately. Who gives a [ __ ] what the internet thinks? But how do you, you know, how do you convey this to your children? They're going to be at their friend's house. Fox News is going to come on. Hannity's veins are pulsing as he talks about you and they have to see that you know that's got to be hard to for them and for you to sort of how do you move >> two in one is this is that you just by just by staying clean sober man >> just by not picking up you know that's that's the number one way just showing up >> showing up with a clear head >> you know or as clear as head can get not on substances >> right >> is like being true to that, you're 90% of the way there because then everything else is life. I like I haven't figured it out. I'm figured out, you know, like I'm I make mistakes as a father and and a husband and a son and a and a nephew. >> Yeah. >> You know, all the time I'm selfish. Like, you know what? Like I I think about like somebody asked me a question about my dad's health the other day and I was shocked by the like response of people like oh my god Hunter Biden like some revelation about you know my dad has metastatic bone cancer which means it started off as prostate cancer and it escaped the area of the prostate and metastasize into his bones. So, yeah, he's not any different from when he had that when I when I uh when when that diagnosis was made public to today. He's tough as [ __ ] Metastatic bone cancer and bone cancer can be painful at times. Doesn't mean the treatment's not working. It doesn't mean that radiation and chemotherapy that he went through and the, you know, the hormone therapy can't keep it at bay and all those kinds of things. But I was shocked at how people like I think the other part that I said which is this. It's really [ __ ] hard as a son. >> Yeah. >> It's awful. Like I don't just love my dad. I adore him. He's the center of our family. Not in a way because he's president of the United States, but the fact is is that like he is the center of our family because we all rely on him, his wisdom. his affection, his um uh his presence because he even was president, even the vice president, his whole career. My dad was never not present for me, my brother, my sister, and I just hope that So, how do I do it? Just showing up, man. >> Just showing up. And showing up, you know, not smoking crack helps. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. True. >> It's a good thing. What would you huge if you could if you could uh war game out the next two and a half years for the Democratic party, what would you pick? >> Oh, pure authenticity. Here's my thing. I don't care if you're a Democratic socialist. I don't care if you're James Telerico and you're, you know, straight down the line in your middle of the road. I don't care if you're going to run away from Joe Biden's accomplishments or you're going to run, you know, directly towards Joe Biden's compliment. I don't care if you think that AOC, you know, is the best thing since sliced bread or you think that, you know, Joe Mansion is the, you know, best thing. If you tell me that what you're going to do is that you are going to recognize that the that a constitutional republic in which we live is worth saving, then I'm I'll vote for you. I don't even give a [ __ ] if you're Republican at this point. >> Yeah. >> If you're put put some put some chips down on the table. Who do you think would be good? Oh, I really I'm not I'm not avoiding the the question. I think that somebody's going to emerge like every single time within the Democratic party with a vision and a voice that is going to capture the imagination. But I'm telling you in this environment, it has to do with one thing. It has to do with whether or not you are being actually authentic. If you're being honest with people, [sighs and gasps] people can smell it from a mile away. And the reason they can is because we've lived through 10 years of the age of Trump in which we we very much understandably confused authenticity with audacity. Trump would say things that nobody would say and people would go, "Well, that's authentic." And then he wouldn't do them. He says he's not going to ever go to war in the Middle East and you'd have to be a goddamn evil, you know, an idiot to ever, you know, do it. And he does. He says that he's going to end the war with Ukraine on day one. And people go, "Now that's what we want in the president." And everybody with a brain knew that there was no way that he was going to end the war with Ukraine on day one. And here we are. He said that he's going to blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I mean, I could go through the list and I start to sound like a politician. >> He says that he's 6'3 and he weighs 225 pounds and he has a and he shot 70, won the the the the championship. You know, again, everybody knows he's lying. That's audacity. People want somebody with all of their flaws to be honest with them about the challenges and how they're going to address them. And by the way, like all these people, like I don't know what you guys think about Mandani, but all I know is this. He said he was going to open up grocery stores, the uh you know uh co-op grocery stores in the five burrows, and he did it. He said that he was going to bring down the uh rent uh prices and he's doing it. He said that he was going to balance the budget and he did it in 6 months. He said now all of the other stuff is like what does he think about Gaza? I don't give a [ __ ] what the mayor of [ __ ] New York thinks about Gaza. What does he think about BB Netanyahu? doesn't matter to me if I live in New York City and I'm 28 years old and I just got married in >> Is that indicative of something a little bit deeper than just sort of where he's at in the local geography though? Do people not care about the deeper principles of the people that are supposed to be leading them? >> Oh, I I I maybe maybe not. But I do know this is that all politics is local. Zoram Donnie works in in in in the largest immigrant melting pot in the in in in of human history which is called New York City. He works there. You know what? James Telerico, who is an evangelical Christian and a Democrat and talks about the red letter uh words of Christ in every speech that he makes is the right guy to be running in in Texas. Just like I think that in a state like Michigan with an incredibly vibrant and old and and uh important Muslim community is that Abdul Asiad is a Dr. Abdul Isiad is is is a great candidate for there. You may want to be able to call him a communist because he believes in uh and universal healthcare. I don't know anybody I have never talked to anybody that doesn't think that it's a right that people should have the right to access healthcare without going bankrupt. >> I just think >> I don't know anybody that doesn't >> I I feel like it's it's a >> I think people have become blackpilled. I I I don't think it's like >> Explain to me black pill, red pill. People say that to me and I'm not joking. Like I'm like which one's the black pill? >> The black pill is is essentially nihilism. it. Okay. Yes. So like so essentially >> I totally agree with that. >> And so the general sense is >> why why do we keep having these dudes? Why do we have these presidents? Why do we why are we doing this thing where we're connecting to this person or that person who says this or that and Mandami I I watch I see what algorithms pumping out. Yeah. >> And how could you not like him? He's putting water fountains up in Central Park and all these good things. But then you see that like that's cool. But then you think, "I'm not getting fooled again. I'm not going to let these people hypnotize me anymore." Inevitably, they'll do the water fountains or the whatever for a little bit and then before you know it, they're blowing up kids. Matter of time before there's a reason, they have some important reason that ends up >> one dark [ __ ] >> It's true. I mean, dude, >> that's that's the thing, too, where >> you are. I'm done. He's blown up. I I joking. >> Not yet, but you know what I'm saying? like inevitably >> it's like the hero show and then it's just like time goes on you're like what the [ __ ] I mean for me the the political stuff >> is like you know like I think we're hopefully we're going to get to a point because we have been in like the whole Trump which also there is the Trump's like you know like you know negative half which is like the liberal media constantly obsessed with them. It's like a feedback loop is my point. And I I do I hope we'll get out of the thing of like mutual demonization where it's like, you know, this person's a liberal. I can't even look at them and this person's conserv I I went to graduate school in Brimmar. >> Yeah, >> dude. If you disagree with these people, they would cry. The staff would freak out and they were just like hardcore liberals. >> He went to Binmar. >> Yeah, I did. [laughter] >> Come on. Anybody talk about secrets? >> Exactly. But my whole point is like I I just really hope that's why I kind of eye roll when you're talking about Christo fascism or it's like dude I I just really hope we can all eventually learn how to be like okay you maybe maybe I think some of your ideas are a little weird or wacky cuz I didn't grow up like that and vice versa but the whole emotional charge behind it I I completely I think younger kids kind of laugh and eye roll when they hear like people >> 100% I'm going around talking and the difference between the people that are like 18 to 30 year olds anything that I talk about is they get it in ways that if you're o if you're my age or over the age of 40 or 45 and you get caught in all of these conversations exactly what Matt said and I'm not saying to you is that like oh it's all about cristofascism saying what I'm saying is one of the underlying things I do believe you want to know what the conspiracies that I believe in I believe that rich people eat at the same places go to the same clubs have the same interest and I'm talking about the 01% and they pull the same strings and They have an inordinate amount of influence on government. And if we really ever want to change things, the thing that we have to do is figure out a way and I don't know the way. I don't have the answer of getting money out of politics. >> Yeah. >> The same money that's been there forever. And they have a like they had that. >> But you're absolutely right. So you know how much [ __ ] that I get for going to talk to Candace Owens? Have you ever met Candace? >> No. >> She is [laughter] I mean I you won't meet someone who's personally nicer than Candace. Now, that doesn't mean that the things that she says I agree with or that I, you know, that I think that we did land on the moon. I say this to Candace every time, Candace, we did. We promise you we would land on the moon. But my point is pretty soon that we're going to just go back there and be able to be like, "Hey, there's the [ __ ] flag or whatever." >> Yeah. >> But also, you just lost me, man. [laughter] >> Like, I was on board till you said we landed on the moon. >> You don't think we went to the moon? >> Well, I'm so sorry to ask. >> This is where I want to go. Yes. Hour three. Let's [ __ ] go. >> Didn't we just say what conspiracy theories do you believe in? >> The moon. Let's [ __ ] assess it. Moon landing footage, please. >> No, I'm not too known. >> Yes. Yes. HERE WE ARE, CANDACE. >> COME ON, CANDACE. Come on down. >> No, I feel terrible. I don't want to derail what was he was doing cuz I I do like where you're going with it. I feel like I just I derailed something quite beautiful. >> You don't want to question them. You >> didn't derail it. >> Everyone everyone agrees money out of politics. Da da da da da. But like how does that trickle down to making the incentives of modern media, social media, uh using in-group, outgroup tribalism as an effective strategy to gain political office? How does getting the money out of media stop the dynamics and the incentives of tribalism? That to me feels like >> you mean money out of government. Okay, not out of media, but money out of government. >> But I here's here's one. >> The incentives are still going to be there on X to send. >> No, but here's the thing. You know what? You can curb those incentives. I mean the incentive to uh to run rough shot over the the the health and well-being of the American people. And the way that you do that is for instance you um dis you end um uh section 230 the the immunity clause that for all social media and technology uh >> no section 230 basically says that they're not responsible for their content or the effect the impact of their content. So when Meta goes out and they know that uh their algorithm specifically is leading to an exponential increase in suicides among teenage girls in the United States of America and an exponential and an an additional exponential increase in the number of girls that are harming themselves in uh to the degree that they are going to hospital emergency rooms because of it because of their algorithms. Their internal studies show documentation. A whistleblower brings up all of the paperwork to and all of the the data that Meta has that at that point I think 2022 still Facebook has collected internally and you know what they did nothing >> no one did a thing so you have to change the law and the reason that the law is not being changed is because it's not just Republicans it's Democrats it's the people from uh the you know in in support of the of the freedom of speech of Silicon Valley or in support, you know, how much money they pay for that. >> This is a this is a problem. I I think you're conflating two things. Like you're right, like oh my god, it's terrifying. They studied BF Skinner, you know, they behaviorism, they they've created a drug, an addictive drug, and they know how to like hack the human nervous system in a way that is making kids completely glued to this and is like and adults are going nuts. It's creating um psychic contagions, cultural contagions and such and but the moment that you start creating laws where you hold them liable then suddenly somebody posts something right then you do limit freedom of speech which is the most beautiful thing about these things and I that's the problem is the two are are are separate issues and and inevitably what happens is this this insane machine that sometimes is misinformation, sometimes the truth, sometimes in between it it will you'll nerf it and then the next thing you know it's like in Canada or something like you know when if you want to post it in Canada correct me if I'm wrong I think you have to like don't you have to have some kind of license like you can get your internet taken away >> UK is just about to ask for people to upload their IDs before they can have >> so here's the thing is I don't disagree with anything that you just said >> but you know what is that I think that we have to have this as an open discussion that's not incredibly infected by a uh a a voice that has far more um uh power than yours or mine as a voter. And and so what I'm saying is is that I think there's a way to get there. >> But I know there's no way to get there when I'm working against, you know, a couple hundred, you know, billion dollars in that that are being paid through, you know, every which way that you can possibly imagine. Not just the Republicans, the Democrats just as much. >> I mean, something's got to give. Yeah. >> Something's got to give. You might know more about the Yeah, you you genuinely might be right and know more about it than I do, but I just I wouldn't bet against the human incentive toward tribalism online. And as soon as you create a town square, even if you start to restrict section 230 gets repealed or you get gets turned off and you're no longer a utility pipeline, you're now actually what it is that's coming through. But if if that was the case, >> I get the sense that people just have these new rules and then they start to play with it. Like an MMA fight that says, "Okay, no groin kicks." It's okay, well, I'll find a different way to achieve the same outcome doing something, but you know what? Laying a few you get rid of the groin kicks. And so, let's get use a perfect analogy. Perfect analogy is the automobile industry. Okay? So, you know what? Should we be able to hold cars liable that do not provide a safe product for the driver and for the consumer? We do, right? >> We apply these as it relates to um uh uh liability to every single other industry. If you put out a product that is known like if I put out a bowl of cereal and the bowl of cereal absolutely is is killing uh it's a sugary cereal cereal and in the immediate it is a it has a poison in it also. If you get the one lucky charm it's going to kill 10% of the kids that eat it. You know what? We have laws against that. We have liability. So, not only would it be necessarily illegal to do that, but really what it would be is me as the consumer, if my child was killed because of the product that you created with the knowledge that that product has a better than even chance of creating the situation which ends up in their death that I get to sue you for doing that. So for instance, chat GPT chat GPT right now would you heard the stories of how it is speaking to people and like there was this one woman and I think I forget the exact so don't hold me to it. [sighs and gasps] She uh it it led her to believe that she was this messianic figure and it literally encouraged her to take her life. It said you should do it. It would be the gift to the world if you take. Should because they have all the conversations with it. >> You know what should CHP GPT be held liable for that? It it's product. >> It's a technology. That technology took a vulnerable person and convinced that vulnerable person that the best course of action that they could do was take a gun and shoot themselves in the head. It told them to do it. >> Yeah. Yeah. It almost seems >> Should they be held liable for that? >> What? Well, yeah, but I don't think freedom of speech applies to AI. See, I'm not talking about the freedom of speech. So, should Meta be able to have an algorithm that they are able to turn up or down, which they choose to turn up, and which they know through their own studies is leading to the su a exponential increase in suicide among girls between the ages of 13 and 17. >> You're saying more like some kind of some kind of regulation for the algorithm >> consumer safety. If you create a product that is unsafe, >> you are are you are liable to the consumer if they are harmed by it. >> Yeah, I I agree with that. I think you should here's the rub though. I think you 100% should do that. The the chat GBT stuff, it's like it does seem like an almost easy fix. Like, hey, if anyone ever says they're going to kill themselves, just code in don't do that. >> You know what I mean? Like that seems like it does. >> Yeah, you you would think. >> You would think. But um but the the problem is because then you get into but then it goes into a gray area of like what's safe and what's unsafe. That was like the co thing. If you had like any sort of dissending viewpoint, they'd be like this is unsafe and then you could people who might have a political agenda and then go that's unsafe there. >> I'm talking about consumer safety. That's I'm not talking about the argument that's going on in the UK right now which I think is over the top and ridiculous in terms I mean not the argument the the way in which the UK is dealing with it. I think that there's there's real um like I got to get killed by everybody on the left for this, but yeah, I think that it's overkill what they're doing as it relates to um free speech in many instances. >> I'm not talking about freedom of speech. I'm talking about just pure consumer safety. >> What do you make of the increase in political violence over the last few years? January 6, Trump White House correspondents dinner. >> Okay. So, I don't know. Charlie Kirk Kirk. >> Yeah. I don't know. Uh I I do know this is that I think that we are experienc the same level of of of political violence that um has been present in the United States of America since its inception. I mean if you look at it this we're we're we're way below where we were between 1968 and 1972. Underground, Martin Luther King, JFK, Malcolm X, I mean just go down and down the licks. Stokeley Carmichael, I mean Huey Newton, the way in which the police responded to all of them. I mean all like you go down and you want to talk about political violence. By the way, >> Ronald Reagan didn't only was was actually not an attempt. He was actually shot. Not only was he shot, there was at least three attempts on his life in the eight years that he was at at President of the United States. you go the political violence that was uh that was directed outwards during the Bush the second Bush administration and the Iraq war in the Afghanistan war the amount of violence that occurred outside the uh outside the United States to protect us from political violence >> I abhore all of it >> I mean it's just it's like the but one of the things about this country is that is like if like we're honest with ourselves, we are an incredibly violent society. We are in terms of we we have 5% of the world's population and we represent 25% of the world's incarcerated people. more than China, more than Russia, more than India. 25% of the world's incarcerated people are in the United States of America. And so, like, there's a lot of stuff that we need to reckon with, you know, but I'm not like we're not figuring that out. All I want to figure out right now, one thing. I believe that Donald Trump is truly an existential threat. I'm I am here to say this. If you voted for him three times, okay, I'm okay with that. I understand. I can understand why you why you maybe have gotten there. I don't have any problem with you. Like, I want to go down and sit with whether it's Joe Rogan or whether it's Theo or whether it's Tucker Car. I mean, there are people that have said worse things about me than than not Joe and Theo, but like others or about my dad. But like, if you're on board with me that what this [ __ ] is doing right now is pure insanity and cannot be good for the future of this country and for for our our position in the world, then I'm on board with you. I mean, literally I mean, I don't agree with a single thing that Marjorie Taylor Green has ever done in her politics other than this. She woke up to the fact that Donald Trump is a complete and utter fraud. >> It's just the [ __ ] wars, man. It's like every president I don't know what wars your dad conducted. I'm sure he >> did. He got out of every single war. We were the first president first president in 40 years not to be have a um you know when he got killed for pulling out of Afghan Afghanistan. >> But when but other people got killed when we were pulling out Afghanistan too. Well, we lost 10 soldiers pulling out of Afghanistan ending a 20-year war >> while he was president. Okay, that's great. I don't listen. I am so bad at politics. Man, let me just say one thing for real. This is what is important is that he did the exact opposite. >> And not only that, is that he didn't drop a bomb on a single person in the four years that he was there. >> When your dad was president, there weren't any civilians casualties. >> Well, there was an enormous amount of civilian casualties that were be uh in Gaza by virtue of what the Israelis were doing, but not by virtue of the actual US engaging in in in violence against another nation's. You're saying like when your dad was president, there weren't civilian casualties in Afghanistan or around the world? >> Not because of us. We pulled out every troop. Every single troop that was in Afghanistan, he did what he could do after 20 years was pulled out. I >> I guess the the broader point I'm trying to make and uh sorry if I said your dad blew up a bunch of kids like some kind of hippie and I don't know that, but I he probably did. No offense. No, he didn't. [laughter] >> No offense. >> By the way, literally like Oh. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. What what years >> was was my response that Oh, all right. Yeah. >> What What year was this again? Was that the what was it? The Ukraine when did Ukraine start? >> Ukraine started in 2021 when like when my dad was president. But again, what I'm saying is is that we didn't put any boots on the ground in Ukraine. >> But the thing that gets me alive is you've got all like we've been at war for what 93% of our history. And you look at the first time the United States was not at war was under the administration of Joe Biden in which he got murdered by everybody for politically for pulling out of a war that we've been in at 20 uh for over 20 years. It's a low bar if you're at war for 93. But your dad Okay, listen. Listen. True. All I'm saying is >> he never gets credit for that either. >> That's a good thing he did. And but for me, what eats me alive Yeah. is that all like those bombs, whether whatever it may be, all those bombs, how much they cost, right? And then you hear >> kids, kids are in school lunch debt. What the [ __ ] is that? There's kids who like who who can't get healthy school lunches. There's the teachers who aren't getting paid [ __ ] you know? And you look at how much each of those [ __ ] bombs cost. you want to and you know whether it's tax the rich or tax the oligarchs. Why don't we stop spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on bombs that are blowing up countries for completely enigmatic, mysterious reasons most people don't understand. And it used I remember when we right when we were about to bomb Iraq, >> I remember, man, I was in LA. I was at the marches, dude. Everyone's marching. Everyone's so [ __ ] furious. What are we doing? And then gradually it seems like the national reaction to this insane violence that we conduct year after year after year, it's like we're we're we're not pushing back anymore. We're just letting it happen. 184 Iranian school girls blown up. That's Can you imagiles? >> Yeah. >> Not one, two, double. That's that's when the you know kind of started to become untethered when people would be like well it is a military conflict and things you it's like things happen it's like >> no >> come on man you can't just say that >> you can't say that >> things happen >> you can't say that anymore and so that's what the that's where >> also I mean I don't know I don't plan the wars obviously but it's like >> it's funny thanks for clarifying that well because it's easy to armchair a quarterback but it's like that sounds almost like the you know the conspiracy guy in me is like you sure you're not terrorizing gratuitous unnecessary. >> Yeah. Because you're dealing with people who, you know, literally kill people professionally. And it's like I I I have a hard time believing there's a lot of people who can kind of delineate clearly. Billions of dollars are at stake not to be like [ __ ] >> decision with which we are able >> to take out a single person >> as the which is the relative size of a of a grain of sand. >> Mhm. um on on a map that we that that that was a mistake when we were making surgical strikes at the time. >> Have you ever seen >> really hard for me to believe too? Have you ever seen when they retrofit samurai blades to a tomahawk? Have you seen this? >> [ __ ] awesome. You talk want to talk about precision. So they're able to they're able I think it's a Hellfire missile maybe. They launch it from the very beginning and then they use fins to guide it from there, but there's no ordinance in it. This thing is so [ __ ] accurate that if you've got a bad guy in a car, you need to know what seat he sat in. >> Oh, I've heard of this >> because this will go through the roof and >> yeah, >> these blades come out. And there was a dude who they'd found like quite high up, I think, maybe something to do with 9/11. And this guy every morning would go and have his coffee and they sent two in the air at the same time. So like one, two, there's no explosion. This guy just gets turned into dust. Honey, the reason we don't have your insulin is because we had to pay for sword bombs. >> That was one guy that was really bad. By the way, you know what? >> That's different to blowing up a school. [laughter] >> But by the way, you know what though is that in the past for for so many decades now. The argument the the the hippie argument that you're making is kind of like, oh, what are you talking about? We need to >> Are you [ __ ] kidding me? You know, we have a a trillion dollar budget for for now what is called the Department of War. We're not even defending ourselves now. We're talking about killing people rather than defending ourselves. >> Yeah. >> It's outrageous. It's outrageous in a country in which we're the only industrialized nation in the entire world that does not have a uh universal access to healthcare. >> I'm for you, man. Excuse me. I got to pee. I Yeah, you go first. You go first. I honestly I have a theory that it's hard to kind of keep the army going if you have universal healthcare and you know free college because that's like kind of the that's kind of the car Danielle to get people in the army >> because if you give everyone healthare everybody. >> Yeah. We'll just script people in. >> True. [laughter] >> Here's something that bugs me out and I I always try to wrap my head around it. I remember so I think I was graduating college around like Occupy Wall Street time. >> Yeah. >> I think they p pulled people And I think it was something like maybe 20% of the people believed anything the government said. It was everyone had this like really apathetic attitude towards like yeah I don't believe anything they say. And then you know so that was what 2009 by 2020 not only did people you know wholeheartedly believe the government but all of a sudden they like wouldn't talk to their aunts and uncles because they voted one way or the other. people they got like somehow turned this like people didn't really care when I graduated college at least the people I knew and you know I guess abroad and all of a sudden some dial got turned where it's like now like families are falling apart over politics and it it just was like I always wonder like how exactly did that happen >> I don't know I think it's all I agree with you it's very quick yeah I I I say to everybody and then sometimes like I go home and I'm like do I really believe That [laughter] is the thing that I say is is that we're not nearly as divided as we're being told we're sure >> because I really believe that. But then I go home and I do it the same thing that everybody else does. I'll leave here. I get in the Uber to go to the airport and I'll open up my phone and I'll go through my for you page and I'll be [snorts] like, "Fuck like [ __ ] >> we're broken. >> [ __ ] we're broken." And like those mother god damn it those mother god damn it those [ __ ] I mean, I even find it in this is that like I went I on X and I went on Instagram. It was like a new thing to me. And then, you know, the main thing I wanted to do was Substack because that's where I write and doing little things >> and also I can make a little bit of money, pay my bills for sure. >> Yeah. So, but I went on X and X is like a crapshoot, you know, depending on what it is. It's like I mean it is the meanest. X is wild. >> It's like insane. Okay. and just like it's ne like you crackhead pedophiles, you know the I mean like the the [ __ ] I mean >> it's on Instagram >> it will be like oh my god that was so beautiful. Thank you. You've helped me in my recovery and I would love this is a picture of my cat. He's beautiful and uh and here's me and my husband with our dog and we love you so much and like I'm like but I gotta go back to action. >> It's the same. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. You want to read it's just the same. >> You call me a crackhead. >> Just a different ecosystem. Same species. >> Same exact post on both on both sides. And literally that will be what it is. And my point being is that we are all drawn to the [ __ ] train wreck. We are all drawn to the confrontation. we are all drawn to and like and that becomes everything. You know what I mean? Like I mean Melissa like like it would be 2:00 in the morning she'll be like look at this [laughter] >> brandishing your ex >> because in my past life it would be like look like what was on that phone. [laughter] You know what I mean? >> Hearts skips a beat. >> No, it's like here's my phone. You can look at whatever you want. But it's Yeah, but it's like you know like kids are in you know I mean just it's awful. >> I think people are burning out on it. I I really do. I think people are burning out on it and I think it's going to seem kind of like you know if you go from like 2016 to now it was pretty invogue in like 2016 2020 to just be like freaking out on people and like all caps tweets like another thing I think especially younger people are going to be like come on man like I think they'll be eye rolling that kind of stuff. >> Yeah. You joke that we're not quite in the matrix yet. I think you said we're like maybe there but not quite there in the matrix. There's a conspiracy I believe in, but I got >> All right. Yeah, we'll save it for when you come back. Uh, what would convince you that we've crossed the line fully across into Matrix land? >> Well, I mean, if like I think the way I guess if you wanted to like make the connection that we're in the Matrix, then you would essentially like have to say like we we do sort of live in a simulated reality if we're getting all of our data from our phones. You know what what's happening is you're getting this algorithmic interpretation of reality and then you're believing that that is reality. And so >> do you know what in that case if that's what's occupying your mind it doesn't matter what's going on in the world. >> You don't need to be plugged in through something in the back of your head. >> Yeah. I I don't think so at all. I think that the the there's a veil of illusion that's fallen over everything which is whatever your particular subjective experience is online. I mean, look at the data for how long how how much time we're spending on our phones generally fixating on things that we'll will never see, will never hurt us, will never touch us, and yet that's throwing a shadow over regular life. And so that would be a kind of simulated artificial reality as far as like simulation theory itself, like what Nick Boston writes about and stuff. Um I I think his argument is uh you know there's some kind of mathematical probability that we are not exist >> there's far more simulated ones than the one root one >> downstream we yeah it's some iterative simulation in the sense that this this isn't reality it's already some form of matrix alien technology and within it as above so below it continues to simulate >> a nest you know the uh the plank length you come across this. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. So this is this is pretty cool. So there's the smallest >> length >> that you can measure things in the universe and it's called the plank length. You can't there's no such thing as dropping it in half. It's the smallest that anything can be. It's like insane. So much smaller smaller smaller smaller than an atom. And um one of the arguments for simulation theory is that that's the pixel size, >> right, >> of the universe, right? >> Or you could have local uh like generation that it only appears where you're seen. Uh we're talking about simulation simulation hypothesis. Uh but yeah, plank length is the pixel size. >> Well, here's the best argument for the simulation hypothesis. If you want to like really prove you're in a simulation, you don't even have to go to the plank length. You just you are in a simulation in the sense that phenomena is being interpreted by your senses woven together instantaneously into some kind of reality upon which you are applying all of your subjective experience all of your bias and this thing that you are experiencing is going to be different than what I'm experiencing what you're what any of us are experiencing. So in that case re every if you have an human nervous system you are in a simulated reality. It's just you are simulated by you. >> You're the simulator. And >> what was what was your matrix conspiracy? >> No I I 100% I I I don't think that there's anything new to the hypothesis that we are living in a simulation. There's language that we now use that's based upon our understanding of >> um uh the metaph metaphysics and our understanding of quantum uh the reality that we live in. But if you go read the aunnishads from 3,500 years ago and the the vadic wisdom you'll literally they're saying exactly this. They're saying exactly this. It's the it is a almost one for one except the language is just different in which they um attribute you know these principles. It's kind of the perennial philosophy. It's all this huxley. It is the idea that there is a reason why throughout all of human history at least in our um uh uh organized civilizations that we have come to the that the the the people that have been uh the the the wise people of the of whatever epic that is have all come to the same conclusion and that is that we are all connected. we are all one thing that all of our physical reality is an illusion that there is no such thing as time and space. I mean I now I'm really but I really mean it though and that it is >> it is nothing new. We have different ways of explaining it. >> Yeah. But if you look at like where we are headed with AI right now and everybody that I listen to that comes on that are really truly involved in the creation of this all have come to the same conclusion that within one two maybe already we're at uh AGI >> and if that's the case that then we're >> what two three years maximum in terms of super intelligence not even we're almost minutes away from it potentially from super intelligence and we've hit super intelligence we've just crossed a line that is the greatest advancement in human the the human experience >> ever. >> What separates artificial like super intelligence from art regular artificial >> innovates? >> Oh, so it just thinks so we have super intelligence. >> Well well yeah except no so there's the difference. Yeah. >> AGI is that there is a a machine can do everything and anything that a a human can do. >> Super intelligence is when a machine can do things that humans have never been able to do or do. >> Which, by the way, I I read some article. >> By the way, I just made that up. >> You should write that down. >> Yeah. But what if it says we don't we're just like what if it's dumb? It's just we're like we just like is it going to say stuff that we were like we're still gonna have to decide whether it's like smarter. >> Well, by the way, it's like an alien landing on Earth. That's what it is. If you want to believe in aliens, they are about to land because what it is, it is be a species that is so far more capable in understanding the us what we're capable of. They will lit the super intelligence will look at us potentially and this is what they're concerned with. Yeah. as like we look at ants and like we look at insects. >> Here's an example. >> And whether or not they save us or they or or it, you know, put us in a zoo or whether this has happened a billion times that we're living in the same, you know. >> Yeah. >> This is what Bostonramm said like to to put into perspective. It's a great book. Super intelligence. Have you read that book? It's so good. He so basically the way that we process time is based somehow on how fast the brain I'm obviously I'm not a doctor or a scientist but Bossham's example is theoretically if you get a super intelligence and like and you spill your coffee like before the coffee hits the floor the super intelligence could have written like a hundred doctoral thesises in in that amount of time and so the way it it one of the questions is will it even be aware of us anymore like we will seem so slow to it but a more real world example which I read it's already happened is these things are innovating ways to like redo engines that we don't quite understand so what could start happening is it starts giving us blueprints to create technologies and we don't even know why or how they work essentially it's Lord of the Rings like Now it's just magic. These things are spitting out, you know, cures or god knows what. And then on top of that, let's think of it from the idea of a prediction. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh yeah. the ability to understand what we are going to do or what any what anything is going to do is the same way >> and and >> it could it by the way it's either you I believe that there is a a utopia to it potentially potentially but there's no getting to that utopia without going through what and I don't want to use the word apocalypse but some really really difficult times that the way in which everything that we do is going to be so completely dislodged like we're sitting here talking about saving democracy. I don't know how how what is the purpose of a government and democracy in a world in which super intelligence exists which can't be controlled and that's the other thing this whole idea that somebody's going to get to it before we do. Once you create once super intelligence is released >> there's no pouring your soda can on the computer. >> Yeah. How though? It's not it's not like saved in servers and all that stuff or powered by >> it has already without being even supposedly reaching a AGI has uh figured out ways to preserve itself. So like they've run these tests they've run these tests um and I think I forget it was at anthropic orthopic in which they were going to shut they they they >> they let the the um uh the model know that it was going to be shut down >> not directly but through communications that were on uh you know on the server between the scientists that were involved. >> And you know what it did? It created copies of itself. it hid those copies from the um from its creator and also it began to blackmail the um they put in little things about like one of the scientists was having an affair with one of the other scientists. So it started to send emails to the one scientist saying if you attempt to do this let it be known that they were going to blackmail them and make it public the affairs that they were having >> with a another. So it started to take the self-preservation that were never instructed to do and which was in a direct um uh uh directly opposed to the actual directions that the people that created it were were giving it. >> But that's and that's even before Matt. >> I wonder though is is it it possible we're in the middle of a like the most unfathomable marketing campaign for this technology? >> By the way, I've thought about that. >> Yeah. And you absolutely 100% could be right. >> Could be. Yeah. I I think about that all the time. I'm like, you know, again, like marketing evolves >> for the trillions of dollars that they are putting into Yeah. >> 40 Stanford educated people and like like let's cook how would we cook up the next thing. >> So was it a whole big scop when when Enthropic came out and said they just created a worldth the real joke on all of us is they called it mythos. [laughter] >> You know what I mean? Like it's like I mean I could totally completely wonder. >> I wonder about that's my other thing I wonder. I'm like maybe you know for me it's like I don't know. But I always wonder I'm like I don't know. Part of me feels like I'm in the middle of the most insane marketing campaign. >> No they just whipped up I just read this. They just used an AI to create a virus a bacteria phage that they just did. They've already done this. They they >> Who the [ __ ] is doing stop? DON'T DO THAT. >> I KNOW it's crazy but they did it. And so this this is the apparently there's an LLM but for genome editing they already have this. And so the what what we're looking at even before like the Terrence McKenna utopian end of history singularity time machine [ __ ] >> is I think more akin to like school shootings. It's like we now know that kids will go into a school and just start shooting a bunch of people using guns. What happens when technology formerly accessible only by like the Wuhan Institute for Verology and the what's it called? What is it Fouchy was doing there? >> Gain of function. You know you what happens >> [ __ ] up. We all know what gain of fun. [laughter] >> None of us really know what that is anyway. >> It's an amplifier. >> Exactly. [laughter] >> [ __ ] gain of function, man. You can already order [laughter] gene editing kits online. And so what happens when this technology falls into the hands of non-state agencies, just pissed off people who want to start whipping up their own diseases? What happens then? This is, you know, the uh the more present danger than an AGI is someone using some kind of local LLM trained on gene editing and some [ __ ] DNA printer to whip up some new disease. >> On the on the DNA printer thing, that is an area that's actually a bit more secure, which is pretty cool. So, I've had a couple of conversations, Annie Jacobson, who's written this new book about biological war, and uh a few of the people that have worked in X- Risk for a while. Um, when you have these desktop printers, DNA sequences, if you want to print anything, you can't do it without a connection. And there's green, yellow, and red. And green, you're allowed to print freely. Yellow, you need to get permission. And red, the FBI turn up and kick your [ __ ] door down. >> Okay, but let me stop you there. I have a local theoretically local LLM. A local LLM. It's offline. I downloaded it. It's like one of these new Chinese local LM. It's online, right? >> You've used Kimmy or whatever. How do I fix that problem? How do I make it so >> Can you hack my desktop printer to get around the thing? >> Yeah. All these thing, you know, whatever. >> All of this, all of this stuff is an arms race between the development of the technology and the protections that we need to put around it. It just is permanently moving like this. The crazy thing is I don't think from a consumer standpoint that people are that bothered about AI getting that much better. They're already achieving probably 90% 95% of what I wish it was a bit less psychicopantic. I wish it wouldn't use so many M dashes. I wish it would like write a bit better or whatever. But like [snorts] for the most part like [ __ ] the new chat GPT links in with your all of the health stuff on your phone and I've got this test that I want to know and can you give me advice for the present for the [ __ ] I'm going away on holiday. Like all >> it's amazing. Yeah, by the way, it's absolutely amazing and life-changing and and by the way, and by to your point, like if somebody can build that like that >> um uh to do us harm, then my feeling is is that it >> the opposite is true that we just as fast can come up with the with with with the antidote. That being said, that it doesn't mean that it's not going to be really really scary. >> There's way more ways to break stuff than fix stuff. All right? Like there's only a few ways that you want things to go well, but there's basically an infinite number of ways that things can go badly. So you can tend to you just have to work harder to avoid that. Question on that on the Fouchy thing. I haven't been [ __ ] keeping up at this at all, but all I see online videos of people shouting at Fouchy >> like he's sat in a chair looking sad and people are saying mean things at him and then he keeps bleeding the fifth. >> What are they trying to do? Here, let me I know this is not a popular >> uh in uh where I'm I'm maybe maybe not. I don't know where you got this. Okay. Is this >> whatever you think of Anthony Fouchy, him taking the fifth was his only choice. And here's why. Is because I know from personal experience is that all they were doing with Fouchy is bringing him up to Congress so that he could testify. And if he opened his mouth, no matter what he said, they were going to refer him to the Justice Department, which is owned lock, stockck, and barrel by Donald Trump and whatever whims that he has, and they were going to charge him with perjury. That's it. And regardless of whether there is true is now they've charged him, they're considering charging him with contempt of Congress. There is no jury in the world. There is no I can't even believe they'll get it through a grand jury if they Congress did. Whether the Justice Department follows through with charges on uh contempt of Congress is another thing because everyone has the ability to take the fifth. It is the it just like I have the right to say what I want to say. Um, you know, as long as it's not yelling fire in in a crowded movie theater as under the first amendment, I have the right to the fifth amendment, which means that I don't have to open my mouth in a situation in which I am under oath and I could later be charged as for lying. >> But there that's fair. Are they Cuz I don't really know much about it either other than they found his diary or something on the state. >> They didn't find it. They subpoenaed his computer. >> Yeah. And Yeah. I so but what they're trying to prove I guess is that did he actually have knowledge that it was made in a lab or not and and that's >> and so under his diary and he and he has spoken about this publicly he's said it he's testified to it that he says no it is not the gain of function research that that he believes he he's also said that he does not know whether it was a lab leak or whether it was you know natural from whatever and I don't know >> I thought there was an emission in the diary that he was like or at least somebody told him that they were it was like yeah >> I don't know do we have like the >> I think I think there was something and again I could be wrong but I think there was something saying there was a lot of people being like there's no way this was a wet market and then they were kind of taken off the panel of experts quote unquote and they're like no we have a unanimous that's again that's what I've heard I don't know if that was like >> yeah see I don't know that's the thing I think that if that's what we had heard it would have been much bigger story yeah that's the worst >> remember [laughter] what we had her because this is this is the tell by the way. >> Yeah. >> What did we learn from his diary? That he had a really big ego >> and that he was kind of blown away by the amount of attention and fame that he had in in that moment of time. >> Those are all the things that we you've heard that reporting, right? You've heard that reporting about that, you know, and >> I mean, you really don't want leading the response. If we had learned that it was game of function that he was responsible for setting it up in the >> Wu on Lab, >> then we wouldn't be sitting here wondering whether or not >> Did you see RFK bragging that he's got no gag reflex? >> Oh gosh. What? >> Have you seen this video for real? Watch this. >> I don't have a gag reflex. I will literally eat anything cuz I don't have uh I don't have >> I can fit a 100 foot sausages in my mouth. I I He's talking about taste of food, >> right? But I mean that's just >> he's not saying stuff. Oh, >> is I'm sorry. Okay. >> Is that [laughter] not just >> No person should ever >> statesman should ever say that. >> RFK is my Fouchy. I like RFK the way I think you like Fouchy. And I Dude, I I used to eat green beans and I would gag. Wasn't like throating them. I would taste them and be like, "Yeah." >> Okay. >> So, I like I like RFK. >> But yeah, he does. >> You like him now? I I've always liked him. >> Do you like him more now? >> For sure. I want to hang out with him. [laughter] >> Yeah, he seems pretty fun. >> Now I really want to hang out with him. [laughter] >> Yeah, that is just saying. >> What do you What do you make of RFK >> exactly? What >> What do you make of RFK? >> I don't know, man. I mean, here's what I make of RFK is that I I believe that he um uh I don't know. I just am so disappointed. That's why >> because forget about the all the other stuff, okay? I don't um I don't share the same view that he has, but I don't have any of the scientific background as it relates to the vaccines and all that kind of [ __ ] I'm I I I Trump is an existential threat and everybody will say, "Oh, this is Trump derangement syndrome. Is this is it that one of the things that I know and that I no one is never going to take me off of this is Trump is doing more damage to the United States of America than any other single individual that I can possibly think of since maybe Andrew Johnson after the assassination of of of Abraham Lincoln. I really mean it. He is like like the way in which he has turned a uh the the oval office into the family office that for the pure benefit of him take away all of the policy decisions or whether you think about woke in you know the military or whatever that [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] >> is the way in which he's turned it into a a a way to personally gain >> is that an existential threat though or is that just% 100%. Because if you are able to uh uh become president for the sole purpose of benefiting yourself, that is called a king. It is literally is a um regardless of whether you have elections in the future or not. If you are able to with with impunity make the Oval Office make the presidency into a u you know a a personal uh project for your own benefit, you know, I mean look man, the Qataris gave him a half a billion dollar jet. He then took it to the Department of Defense and put in another billion and a half in taxpayer money into it. And he has a signed document from his own attorney general saying that he gets to take the plane with him when he leaves the presidency. >> [ __ ] nice Jack. >> That's crazy. That's crazy. >> Okay, >> dude. I can't I can't I can't criticize a guy that gets a million dollar jet. >> Just think about how insane that is. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Forget about all the other stuff. Just think that one thing. And by the way, there is a clause. It's called the imalments clause in the constitution that says no president can take a gift. my dad and mom, you know, I mean, they get gifts everywhere you go. They literally, you send them to the National Archives, you send them to the Smithsonian, they don't keep a single personal gift unless they decided that they wanted to pay for it. And of course, they didn't have any money to be able to pay for >> president has to pay for the gifts they get. >> Oh, yeah. 100%. >> If they take it or they keep it, by the way, I don't I don't disagree. >> That's fair. I I don't disagree that he's, you know, [ __ ] nuts. >> The the question though is like he's definitely not the first president to act in their own interest. If you take all of politicians, >> I'm not saying that, but >> his self-interest, you're saying, is so inflated that >> so insane. So insane over the top. >> It just feels like he's the first president to come out and do what they've all been doing. >> No, no, no, no, no. >> And by the way, I I'm not saying Listen, I'm not saying I like Trump, but he's >> he makes he makes Richard Nixon look like a per. He is literally for $100,000. [laughter] >> You can pay True. So, you can you can go on True Social, pay an additional $100,000 to get a to to get like an hour ahead of time the text that he's about to put out to know what stocks >> and you know what he's doing. Yeah. Now, by the way, it's literally paying for insider trading. So, if he goes on True Social and says, "I'm opening up the straight to the straight to open up again for the 39th time." You get he you pay True Social and he's completely open about it. He made 34,000 or 3,400. 3,400 trades in the first quarter of this year as president of the United States. You know how many more that is than like my dad? >> 3,400. You know how much more that is than than Barack Obama? 3,400 of the entire eight years of their presidency. You know, >> so I was about to be like, "You said your dad didn't make trades." I'm like, "Fuck." >> That was [laughter] a joke. >> Gotcha. Exactly. You know, >> yeah, that is that that's probably why he's always going on about stock market. He comes out, he's like, "Dude, the stock market is crushing it right now. What are you so mad about?" >> By the way, every single time, go look at the Wall Street Journal. You literally can see it in terms of the thing. They have the actual numbers. Is that there's like Oh, interestingly enough, when he um uh imposed the blockade an hour before, there's a $500 billion trade. >> Yeah, you could see it. It's [ __ ] Listen to this. >> Yeah. >> Jared Kushner. Okay. Jared Kushner, who is not elected by anyone, not appointed by anyone. He supposedly does not work directly for the White House. He doesn't have a Senate confirmation position. He doesn't work for the Department of Defense or the Department of State. However, he is our envoy to the Middle East. He's getting paid over $100 million by the Saudis alone and has over $6.2 2 billion dollars under management from the Gulf States, including UAE, Qatar, Oman, and everybody else in the region that are paying him hundreds of million dollars in fees to him personally. >> Who is he negotiating for? >> He's getting paid $100 million for certain. >> Did you with Ukraine? You could have gone so much harder. >> No, I know. But by the way, no 100%. But literally, who's he negotiating for? he and Witoff when as it relates to what happens in Gaza as it relates to what happens in the streets of >> Ramoose because he literally is the mouthpiece for for the United States of America. >> Why do you think because I I mean the >> Can you imagine? >> It's insane. That's absolutely [ __ ] nuts. Why do you think Trump did the Iran thing? Cuz it seems so obviously dislikable from so many people >> for that reason >> because of the Kushner. But we'll tell you why is because every single prime minister of Israel since Jimmy Carter has walked into the Oval Office and begged the president to strike around. >> Yeah. >> Since Jimmy Carter, everyone, every president has said, "Love you. Get out of my office." You know why they've done that? >> You know why they've done that? It's >> badass. >> Because every one of them knows is that the first thing the Iranians going to do is they're going to shut down the streets of Hormuz. And you know what that's going to do? It is going to literally paralyze the world economy. Not just as it relates to our fuel, but as it relates to everything that has to do with petroleum, but in particular the one that's going that everybody's not even talking about is what it does to fertilizer and to the cost of the American farmer. >> And so we the bread basket of the world are getting crushed. Farmers are getting crushed right now. And so now >> the state of the straight of Hormuz now >> still closed. He's now opened it up over 39. This is like the 40th time. I I nominated him for the Nobel Peace Prize for ending a war more than not only not once, not twice, 38 times. >> Why? Why do the straight of Hormuz closed though? >> They don't want it closed. And they didn't want this to happen. The Israelis want it to happen. And what they thought that they were going to be able to do is decapitate and take out Kani and that all of a sudden that the rest of the Gulf would would rally that they would come in. But everybody look, you got to there's a guy that that teaches this at the war college in um uh Army War College is where all of the um senior leadership of the military come. And he's and he's been teaching uh basically gameing out a war with Iran. I saw over 25. That's so good. He's amazing. Now he's gone back on like three times. He gives he's given exactly this. This is what happens if you decapitate if you take look Kmeni A Kmeni had a fada which is an edict. It's basically like the the the uh like the pope came out and and >> it's like the Muslim wanted. >> Yeah. That's the By the way, that's a fatwa. But also Yeah, exactly. [laughter] But you can also issue a fatwa as it relates to like an edict like saying this is what we believe. >> For over 20 years these annually put out a fwa saying that they do not believe in nuclear energy as a to be a weapon. It was it was religious law from their supreme leader that they would never turn the nuclear energy that they were trying to do into a into a bomb. Okay. This is this guy not me talking >> you know. So this guy like bombing his citizens though. No, >> he wasn't. So he wasn't >> No, in Iran. No, that was that was >> Well, I mean Iran I mean it's like >> but the So his son his son however is always been known to be very close to the IRGC the the revolutionary guard who are the radicals who are the ones that you know you have a >> several hundred,000 strong army which is the IRGC. He's now in charge because we killed the father. And you know what? He's all for turn building the nuclear bomb. So that's who we replaced him from. And you don't have to do anything as if you're the all this talk of taking out all their missiles and taking out all it is is like couple hundred thousand drones that are literally buried in the sand along the straight. You know, we'll never be able to take them all out. And all it takes is one, two, three to take out an oil tanker because what insurance company is going to ensure any of those tankers to go through the straight of vermoose. So they can keep it as closed as long as they want. I mean just before I came on this it was just announced that the deal that he had with them is that Randy said what? He's out of his mind. What I don't even know what he's talking about. >> What do you think's going to happen? >> There's no deal. What do you think is going to happen? Why I think it stays closed as long as they want to keep it closed. And that's what they realized. He basically put out a a feelers two days ago saying he doesn't even care if there's a nuclear deal. He just as long as he can open up the trade and remove he's ready to kind of like move on. Are >> you worried he's going to use a nuclear Are you worried he's going to use a nuclear weapon? He's going to get so backed into a corner. Midterms are coming up. He he doesn't want to do boots on the ground. He knows what what happens with that. So like, you know, that's what people are kind of muttering about is he's going to like like do a small scale >> nuclear midterm just give you a little a gentleman's nuke. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. Having the debate like you just >> not before the midterms. Maybe after you think after he would do it for real. Maybe >> you can't. Yeah. >> That's terrifying. You really think that? Because I do too. >> You think he'd press the button? I think that he could uh I I think that he is um he's a um uh he is in my opinion a um malignant narcissist and >> doesn't mean that you're going to drop a nuke though. what I there's that doctor that that and I don't necessarily agree with this you know like you know he's a psychologist but this guy you know like Harvard trained he in 2015 he went on and he said I've studied Donald Trump and I and I believe and he's like the foremost expert in in his field and he said I believe that Donald Trump has exhibits all the behaviors a very rare diagnosis by the way it's not a sociopath it's not a psychopath it's not just a narcissist it's a malignant narcissist pull pull up the the what the traits of a malignant narcissist. >> And I I love how I'm running the show now. Pull up. >> Get in there. It's good. Jared, >> but my point is this. He said what it will be like if he ever is ever elected president is like an asteroid hitting the United States of America. >> And I really truly believe that that's what it has been like. I I whatever you think about January 6th, just go look at the images. If that wasn't one of the greatest traumas to this to to the body politic in the United States of America, I don't know what what was just simply by how it divided us in the way in which we saw it with our own eyes. >> Yeah. But do you here's the thing with that? Do you don't think the Democrats had any role in the division? Cuz I feel like they were [ __ ] brutal. >> But by the way, of course, of course. Obviously there's always another side. But here's the one thing that I know. There's always been another side. There's never been another Donald Trump. He literally has broken us in a way that I have not witnessed any other politician be able to do. >> But you know what? I have to say this. I He's going to he's [ __ ] things up and he's it's going to I don't see any way, you know, again, Mr. Blackpill over here. I don't see how this gets better. Iran knows that they've got him. They know he they and and and if like dude if like some dude blew up my [ __ ] dad, my daughter, you know, like I what what do I who gives a [ __ ] I'm I'm going to do everything. >> Malignant narcissist is not an official mental health diagnosis in diagnostic manuals like the DSM5. It's an informal term. Common traits that might be associated with militant narcissism include grandiosity, an exaggerated sense of importance, superiority, or uniqueness. Need for admiration, strong desire for praise, validation and attention, lack of empathy, difficulty recognizing or caring about other people's feelings or needs, manipuliveness, sense of entitlement, exploitation. >> I think it's just an [ __ ] I think [laughter] >> it's just an [ __ ] It's an [ __ ] >> You know, my therapist says I'm the greatest narcissist she's ever worked with. >> Really? >> What's that mean? [laughter] >> I'm just kidding. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> yeah. I I I hear on this and again I I'm not a like a Trump apologist guy, but I this like narcissistic like you know I talked to a doctor and he actually said he's a narcissist. It's like >> no I totally by the way I'm I'm with you. I totally agree. >> He's obviously he's nuts for sure. >> He's [ __ ] nuts though. Come on, man. I mean like he literally sits there and he he tells us that he just shot a 70. >> Yeah. >> At BMster and he won for the 40th time his his club championship. >> Who do you No, really. You're the president. >> His dick fell out of his shirt. >> Sitting out of the office [laughter] dick fell out. >> It's kind of wild. >> It's wild, man. >> He He is also too the uh the the real I think like I mean and there's been a lot of them, but the one that was a real slippage was like the what do you say like uh not Al Akbar, but he had one. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. When he said um uh uh yeah, praise be Allah about the bombing. >> Yeah, we're going to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he's a piece of >> bomb you into the stone age or whatever. >> It was blowing up children. >> Y >> [ __ ] him. But you kind of breezed over what Matt was saying, which is like I don't there's always been another side. But I think in this case, if you really want to like look at what happened and how this happened, >> Yeah. >> you and you you do have to look at how absolutely venomous the Democrats got, how how Camala Harris was just suddenly shoved in front of everybody. It's [ __ ] Kamla, pal. [laughter] >> No, I'm not. [clears throat] >> I'm not saying it's comma. >> God damn it. >> But >> real leather jacket liberal racist. [laughter] >> But for sure that that didn't help. >> Peter Teal loving racist. [laughter] >> That's literally what that's kind of what they did. >> Exactly. >> Yeah, you got it, man. That's exactly it. >> By the way, exactly. I swear to God. Literally. But I'm telling you, I truly believe that it is he is not like we >> he is not the symptom of the disease. He is the disease and we are all the symptoms. >> Look, I really mean it. So that's just my feeling. I don't think that he solved everything when he is is is is gone from public life. >> But I told you you're right. Like it's crazy the way in which like the whining and like oh my god that [ __ ] like it drives me [ __ ] crazy. >> It wasn't even that. So Trump is like an overt like he watched him like, "Yeah, I totally get it." There was so much quiet kind of manipulative stuff that I would say more liberal leading people would do back. They would try to destroy your livelihood. They would try to take your job away from you. And it was like all patting each other on the back. I what I saw especially at Brimmar, you know, I'm probably going to get sued by them one day, but >> it was it was for real. >> You literally were like in the bastion of like >> I was I was in the graduate school, but but they're they're there. They're people's therapists and stuff and they're they were in one thing they were talking about taking people who were you know needed therapy, needed help and turning them into political agents as a mode of therapy that would help them and I'm like dude that's sick. >> Okay, I totally get >> but my whole point is my whole point here's what I don't want to do. It's like Trump is like you know he's >> some figurehead of some sort of ugliness. I think that kind of like you know he's like in very touch with our age. You can get rid of him and then if you kind of say like and here's the good guys. I'm like, I don't know about that. >> Look, I'm not saying here's the good guys. But what I'm saying, that's my whole point. What I'm saying is is that if you truly believe in a constitutional democracy, >> if you truly believe in the rule of law, like I say it all, everybody I was asked on another show is like, well, don't you think that you getting a pardon was not good for, you know, um uh you know, the country? And the like I guess they expect me to answer like, no, I think it was fine. It was [ __ ] awful. >> [ __ ] awful. It's a totally bad. >> I thought you were serious. Okay, if I got part of but it was sick. >> No, by the way, I'm I I >> I don't I wouldn't fall for you for that. >> I have the I have the deepest gratitude in the world for it personally. But was it good for the country? No. >> No. I like this, you know, the the former pardon attorney saying I was really, you know, this that and the other thing. But what what's the alternative? What was the alternative? Can you imagine if I was under the uh the Federal Bureau of Probation right now? Would my dad be able to write a book and be critical of of Donald Trump if they >> What would have happened if you hadn't been pardoned and Trump got elected? >> Well, number one is this is that if Oh, if I had not been pardoned. Well, [gasps] the case that was the gun case is that I bought a gun >> and on the form it says, "Are you addicted to a controlled substance?" Okay. And you can read that as being like a state of mind in the moment, you know, and so that's why the Supreme Court just overturned it and at least as it relates to marijuana users said it's an unc unconstitutional. They'll get to all the other drugs and I believe that it will ultimately all be unconstitutional what I was convicted under. Now I owned the gun for 11 days. Was in a lock box. I never loaded it, never fired it. >> [gasps] >> Somebody had a concern for the s my my safety, not anybody else's, thinking I was going to harm myself. Threw it in a trash can. I self-reported that it was thrown in the trash can. Police came to collect it. They then never gave me back the gun. I never asked for the gun back. 5 years later is when they decided to charge me with it. Right. Yeah. And so >> every the other ones is that I got convicted. I I plead guilty to not paying my taxes on time. Okay. So in 2016 and 17 when I was in the midst of my addiction so 17 and 18 um when I was supposed to file I I I basically thought >> was front of mind to you? >> Well no they weren't front of mind for me and nothing was and I never even filed. So when I when I got clean and sober I went to go file my taxes and my accountant had died in that period of time. I had a new accountant. They said >> you didn't even notice your accountant had died? >> No I did not. >> And Yeah. And >> cracks a hell of a drug. >> Yeah. Exactly. Hell of a drug. Yeah. By the way, that's the best. Can we play that? Can we play the the Rick Shane >> cocaine? Hell of a drug. [laughter] >> So was the gun and then taxed off. >> And so I had paid >> my taxes with penalties in interest. >> I haven't found a another case in which somebody who's paid with penalties and interest was criminally charged for failure to do that. And they said that then I like um I I I took deductions that I should not have taken. Um, you know, I I I when I went through them, I you know, you know, all my all my travel and expenses were, you know, I I put his business expenses. They said, "Well, traveling expenses, you were also smoking crack and doing, you know, blah blah blah." >> Right. >> Do you ever put crack on the business card? >> No, never put cash on the business card. >> You can't I thought I could. Yeah. Not most dealers use credit cards, but Yeah. Yeah. Venmo. Venmo. But I [laughter] uh anyway, my point is is this is that if he was president is that what you don't realize is that when you're under um uh when when you're convicted, you have no Fourth Amendment rights. Once you are charged, you uh you relinquish all your Fourth Amendment rights against search and seizure. And um and you there's no you have no fifth amendment anymore. You don't have a Fourth Amendment. you don't have the right to um uh you know in any space is open to uh search and seizure by the government. So even if I was not in prison at any time that federal agents could could walk into my house without a warrant without any without any uh judicial approval or anything. So for instance, you don't think that if they wanted to make certain that my dad was not critical of the administration that a ICE agent showing up to my my door? I mean look what they're willing to do to other people right now. And so that was the reason why. But was it good for the country? No, I don't think it was good for the country. >> And to your point, >> there's like do I think that this is all Donald Trump's fault that the that there hasn't been like complete overreach on the part of some people in the Democratic party or what do you call leftists or liberals or whatever? Yeah. I mean, we're we are all including myself culpable. The way that we talk to each other. But the one thing that I'm not going to do anymore, at least for me, is this. Like, I'll sit down with whoever the [ __ ] I feel like sitting down and talking about it, just like I used to be able to sit down with whoever. And it doesn't mean I agree with them. I think [ __ ] Nick Fentes is [ __ ] out of his mind. But you know what? I want to learn it for myself. >> Sit down and have a discussion. >> What did you What did you learn from sitting down with Nick? >> That he doesn't believe half the stuff that he says. He thinks that he he talks about all of it like it's a joke because that's what edgeelording was. And I also learned from Nick Fuentes is like a lot of us, Nick Fuentes is frozen in time. Nick Frenz is still this 18-year-old kid that went to Northeastern and was a Republican >> and um uh and wore a MAGA hat and had the same experience that you had at Binmar but times like 50 >> is what a bunch of northeastern liberals, you know, basically shouted at him, canceled him, told him that he was this. And you know what? In doing so, they created a they created a star >> and then he was adopted by like the Ben Shapiro of the world until he, you know, decided that he didn't they said some negative things about Israel and all of a sudden he was canceled by them. Yeah. >> And so, you know what he did? >> He went nuclear and he found an audience for it. He found an audience for joking about the Holocaust or, you know, joking about black people or joking about the, you know, whatever or saying women shouldn't vote. He doesn't believe any of that [ __ ] but he does realize that it gives him a a a platform by which to talk to people. And in doing so, what he says, if you take the time to listen, a lot of it's true. All the other stuff is really hurtful and really wrong and really really really really [ __ ] dangerous. But there's another piece of it where he says there's a group of people in this country huge part of the population of under the age of 35 that not aren't they aren't just dissatisfied they are angry and they are and and you know what to them it's all become a joke to your point. >> Yeah. They've all been blackpilled. Like what do they you know what to what you said like I'm not putting my or maybe you said is like I like I'm not putting my my eggs in Zoron mom Donny's basket because all I've been in from my from their perspective since 2008 like Jesus Christ if you're 20 if you're 35 years old you know or was say you're 30 years old you've gone through 2008 where and we've never fully we recovered from as a country. You if if you're a little bit older, you watch the you know uh the the the largest income inequality and wealth cap grow and grow and grow without anybody even remotely saying this is how we're going to fix it other than saying, "Oh, we're going to tax the billionaires." like like as if the billionaires aren't going to find another way to [ __ ] you know >> my point being is that people particularly young people have become so I mean it's it's not even anger it's the thing that is much more um uh I think insidious and um and that is indifference like indifference to the idea like the that the checking out of politics and they say well what politics politics is all [ __ ] Politicians are all and I always say you may not care about politics. Politics cares about you, you know. And so I don't know. I just think that uh that I can only think of it and maybe I'm my opic in my rage. I know I am. I mean, I really know I am. I mean, I hate him. >> And my my grandmother would say like, you know, like you never say that in about >> who do you hate? >> Trump. [ __ ] hate him. I hate the way he talks about my dad. >> Yeah. >> I hate the way that he is um uh the the way in which he talks about uh uh women. I I hate the way in which he um uh is never can make a joke without I mean you like have you ever heard him make a joke that's not at somebody else's expense that is always about like you know uh uh making someone feel smaller. I I I I think that leadership matters and I don't I I know that the president of the United States has the capacity by virtue of the office that they sit in to to to lead. And you can either use it for good or you can use it for yourself. And he uses it all the time for himself. Whether it's his political self and whether that may align with a group of uh you know constituents, whatever it is, it's always for him. And I think that that's a a a disease on on the Constitution. >> Tell us how you really feel. >> Yeah. You don't think Quiet Piggy was funny? >> No. That was crazy. >> But crazy, right? >> It's But the problem is The problem I'll be honest, the problem is it's so [ __ ] nuts. >> And again, if you're a checked out dude and you're like, it's it is funny. >> That's You're right though. Like if anyone else if you were sitting with your brother and they were talking like quiet piggy be like bro what the >> only be like bro you'd be like what the [ __ ] [laughter] >> Yeah but it's one of those things where you're already and I can attest to this you know I'm 40 but I I was pretty by the time I was in like the time I was like graduating college I was like [ __ ] this I'm not getting a job. The whole thing's [ __ ] The whole thing's rigged. It's evil. It's all ruled by people just blowing each other up. I want nothing to do with this [ __ ] And you watch the news. You're like this is all [ __ ] [ __ ] So I had like checked out when I was like 20. I was like, "Fuck all this stuff." So then you got there's so many people watching the news like that who are like, "I can't I'll never buy a house. I don't give a [ __ ] Probably won't even get married. Everything sucks. I'll be in debt forever." >> Yeah. >> And they That's the They see that and they just go, "Huh, that's crazy." And then they just go about, you know, their day. Which is sad. That's a sad thing to think about. >> Totally agree. >> Yeah. When you've ever done 5 m DMT? >> Oh, it's the worst. >> Really? >> I hate Well, I mean, I got it up. I got In those days, you could order it online. >> You talking about the Toad or just regular DMT? >> Toad. The actual >> Yeah, it comes from a I just got the synthetic stuff. >> Smoked it in West Hollywood. I thought I was going to die. Have you tried it? >> What? >> Yeah. Yeah. 5 M. >> Did you have you tried this post rehab? Is this >> No. Back in the the days when I was like uh I I I was looking for any I mean I've done it all. I've done Iawaska and Fio and I'm I'm a real believer as it relates to certain people and particularly and um but the reason it made me think about it is the this guy Chase Hughes and the way that he talks about it and he's done these incredible journeys on it and >> he's done it IV right >> he's one of the first people ever to do that and um and he's brilliant I mean he's brilliant on a whole level that uh but this level like of and anyway I don't even know why I brought it up the second topic made me think of like like there the the when you come to the determination the realization that so much of this is just an illusion you can either choose to um to engage >> you know in the game like if it's all a game then play the game >> you know what I mean like play the game and in from my perspective I've come out this other side, you know, with this incredible liberation and freedom to do the thing. I'm going to play the game. And I'm going to play the game first to And the only way I know winning the game is, and I know it sounds like polyianish [ __ ] but it's purely selfish, purely selfish, is to be of service to other people. >> And I I know I really do. I realize it's that in no way heroic is I've never done anything in my life. And by the way, I hope I make a shitload of money doing it. You know what I mean? Like I'm not This isn't >> This is because the only thing that I know that has ever worked is not being [ __ ] stuck in my own head. >> Yeah. >> Like only doing for me. Whether literally it's doing for baby B or whether it's doing for my dad or more than anything doing for Melissa, my wife. >> But then like the circle widens and the circle widens. And so I feel like every day that I get up and if I can just think about that, it's like little stuff like asking your waiter what their name is. >> Yeah. you know how big a deal you know in your day like when somebody recognizes you and you know like so if I can connect on a human level just with you know whether it's the the Uber driver or the flight attendant on the way home or the TSA agent going through the thing it's like I'm playing the game. I don't know. I think part of playing the game is is like caring. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I agree that it's funny cuz it does whenever it's like said out loud like I just want to be I want to serve others. It's one thing to say, when you do it, it is a pretty profound thing when you're just like not totally thinking about yourself. >> Little things. Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, you're an artist. Matt is a fan of Native Instruments. So, to celebrate seven years of sobriety, I wanted to get you a little present. >> And this is from >> one >> current pipe lover to an ex pipe lover. >> This is It's a flute. It's a native flute. Is it really? >> Yeah, you can learn how to play it. >> That's amazing. >> THE BACK. >> OH, see that's for you. >> You're real. >> Yeah. >> That's for you. >> I christened it. >> Yep. >> Now, by the way, dude, think about this. Think about the level of double entandra. I got a pipe with the mat. [laughter] Everyone knows that I used to smoke crack out of a pipe. >> Yeah, you can't smoke crack out of that to be honest. >> But you cannot smoke crack out of that. [laughter] >> I I could. >> Exactly. No, this is beautiful. >> Just keep your ring finger on that third hole and every You can't really go wrong with it. >> Truly beautiful. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Welcome. I appreciate you, boys. This is awesome. >> Wait, am I going to be able to take this on the plane? >> Oh, we'll post it. We'll mail it to you. I'm sure >> you all rule. I appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah. Hunter behind stopped in TSA with a giant pipe. [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Congratulations. You made it to the end of a podcast episode without dying. Now, here's another one. Go on. Watch it.