Hunger Mountain Co-op - 2027 Council Candidate Forum 9/1/2026

Welcome everyone. I'm glad to see an overflow crowd tonight and uh we'll welcome you to a candidate forum uh for the upcoming elections. And behind me is is >> back up. >> Oh, I need to step away now. I'm in the way. Okay. Well, that's always >> the camera's right there. >> His camera, not his. >> Stand here. So there are we have we have three people running for office and one person who will be an appointee. So, Steven Farnum, my colleague, president of the co-op, uh, uh, Carl Iner, who's current president, and I'm the treasure. I'm the vice president, but I'm not running for election at this point. And I'm sorry Katie, you're you're you're running for office for the second time if I'm not correct. >> Correct. >> Okay. So there are three appoint three people we were voting for a full year term and then Wayne Fabush who has served on the co-op for um as an appointee but he has to be um elected to do that. So, we're going to start. Scott is our moderator. >> Moderator. >> Yes. >> He's done this before. He's also been an officer. So, take it away, Scott. Thank you very much. Thank you for attending. It's an honor to be back, helping out, and being with the fine uh potential candidates. Well, not potential candidates. Good luck. Good luck. I know it's going to be a hard run, hard-fought election, but I'm sure you guys are well qualified and uh and you'll do it and you'll do a great job. So, thank you for joining us. Uh let me just run quickly through what the the format for this um for this uh for this session. It's basically should last around an hour. Welcome and uh and introductions, which we just did. We're going to have an opening open statements. Um, we'll limit it to three minutes per candidate. I'll tell a little bit about their background, qualifications, whatever they want to do for opening statements. Then I'll um I will ask the candidates and uh and potential appointees some questions and you will have three minutes to answer the question if you'd like to take the three minutes. When I raise my hand, I'll go that'll be mean you have 30 seconds left of your three minutes if you'd like to take it. After that, we'll take some questions from the audience. We had one or so that were submitted and maybe some from our our audience here. And uh and that should basically go about an hour and we'll have closing statements. That'll be around that'll be a minute and a half around 90 seconds. And then after that we've allocated about 25 minutes for a meet and greet with the uh with the audience. Is there any questions? No. Okay. So we have our candidates. We have Katie um Katie Michaels. She is a um she is a candidate for for election or I could guess you could say reelection with a with with a space in between. >> A little gap. >> A little gap. Okay. Um why don't we start with Stephen on our left? Um your opening statement. >> Okay. I didn't um come with prepared notes because then it would sound unscripted. So, I'm going for the uh extemporaneous style. I'm Steven Farnum. I've served on the council for about a decade. I've been the council secretary for about half of that time. I've served on ballot, bylaws, communications, compensation, engagement, ethics, evaluations, executive, gym, hiring, governance, and half dozen other committees. Um, they're going to have to invent a new one so I can be on one I haven't served on before. Um, I'm interested in especially what's going on with the co-op now when we deal with the fact that we recently purchased a new property. I think that holds a lot of exciting potential for the co-op. And um, as far as what qualifications do I bring? Um, well, I'm a member of other co-ops, either past or present. Um, I grew up as a member of the Cabbat Farmers Cooperative Crearyy. Um, I'm also a member of a a electric co-op and I've been a member of two or three other food co-ops. My insurance company is a co-op and my bank is a co-op. Um my the things that I bring I think to the council are innovative thinking um problem solving and as long as I'm not one of the ones who's involved in a dispute, I think I'm pretty good at bringing two sides together when there's a difference of opinion on something. >> Thank you. Uh Wayne, >> well uh I've three minutes for an ex-politician is tough, but I'll try. Not to worry, I'll cut you off. >> That's that happened before. Um, I was uh on the co-op originally when we did the expansion and moved the director out and brought Krie in and I I was actually on led the search committee when we brought Krie on at that time. Um, and was uh I s I think about seven or eight years on the board and then I left town for a job u in New York and came back. But basically just my work history is uh I grew up on a farm. I bought a small farm when I got out of the service and uh took a rundown farm and actually did pretty good getting it uh back in shape. U in se from 76 to 92 I served in the Oregon legislature both in the House and the Senate. My priorities were economic development in the rural parts of the state. How do you actually help a community take and control their own resource base for their own good? And that actually that train of thought has carried me through most of my profession the rest of my professional life uh which included uh senior executive service in the department of a uh for four or five years where uh I was responsible for putting together a federal program to help mitigate the impact of the spotted owl in Oregon, Washington, California. So, I had to work with three states, about 15 communities, and seven federal agencies, uh, including getting an MOU signed off by seven of those agencies. That was the hardest part. Um, and, um, the, uh, uh, and then, um, I, uh, came to Vermont and I was served I I started the Vermont Sustainable Jobs Fund. Uh there was an uh business council who thought the idea up and they hired me to start it. Uh and so I did that for uh four or five years and then um I did some consulting because I moved on. I'm pretty good at starting stuff. I'm not necessarily good at longterm following. It's not that I get bored or anything, but um I like the challenge. Okay, 3 minutes are up. >> Three 30 seconds to go. >> Oh, 30 seconds. I can do it. Um, I ended up uh my last job was as a grant manager at the Ford Foundation actually doing the same thing I started when I was in the Oregon legislatores. How do you help rural communities control their resources? Um, I've been a board member of the Gddard College for half a dozen years. Uh, I've served on the Vermont Natural Resources Council, uh, Hungry Mountain, um, uh, as you heard before. >> And Library four years. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I did it. >> Look a little I promise I'll put a soap box outside. >> No, that's fine. That's good enough. >> I'm done. I'm done. >> Carl, well, that's a hard act to follow. Why don't you pick Katie next? Carl, it's your turn. Sure. Uh well, I want to thank everyone for for coming tonight and for viewing on on the TV, the YouTube. Uh the council development committee decided to hold this forum even if there was not a contested election because we think it's important for the members of the co-op to have a chance to listen to the people who are going to be representing them and vice versa and also gives us a chance to formulate our opinions about what's coming up next. Uh I grew up in Wisconsin. I lived many places in the United States and 10 years in Scandinavia. I moved here to Vermont at the turn of the century and I've worked in some aspect of sustainability for most of my career. I've been involved in co-op governance uh this co-op's governance since the mid- teens uh with a three-year stint on the council. After I left that, I continued chairing the bylaws committee until after the successful 2022 vote to rehab the bylaws completely. I rejoined the council in 2023 and I served the co-op as council president since then. Uh my vision for the co-op is I want to see it thriving as a grocery store as it does right now. Uh people love the grocery store. Now, Mary and I have almost monthly co-op connected events where we just stand and it's an ask me anything for whoever comes in the door. And the most common thing that people say is, "Oh, we love the co-op." Uh, it's communityowned. It's an anchor in the local food economy. We've got nearly 200 local employees. You know, some chains close stores because they aren't profitable enough. That that particular store is not profitable enough. Not not profitable. is profitable, but it's not profitable enough for them. But because we're communityowned, we're committed to this community, our community is committed to us. And uh that's that's something I'm proud to be associated with. Um vision for the future includes well part of our mission statement is to have thriving cooperative commerce without any connection to the food business. So, I've been looking at how Planefield Co-op bought a hardware store. How Hanover Co-op bought a gas station with a service station and then decided to buy another service station on the other side or actually set up another service station on the other side of the Connecticut River. Um, Hanover also has a flower delivery service. There's a a lot that a co-op can do and I think it's important for us to consider our options, especially since we have the new property at 707 Stone Cutters Way. We have people coming to us saying go ahead and put up a hotel there or put up housing or put up a climbing wall. We need to be thinking about uh seriously about non-grer alternatives as well. The key issues I want to address strategic planning. Uh we started this process which is going public or for public input in January and our last plan is from 2012. It's time to get a new one and I'm really excited to see what we and the rest of the community come up with. You have two more seconds. Thank you for being so precise. Okay, Katie, it's your it's your moment to shine. >> Okay. Well, hi everyone. >> Hi everyone. Thanks for having me virtually. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. In person. >> My name is Kate Michaels. at the bottom of Bradley. Um, I served on the council when I last years ago and enjoyed the role more deeply in the co-op and in that time I guess I was on 18 to 2020 to um in that time I served in that time as president and in particular I really enjoyed really the diversity committee committee was in the room in the room um I've worked in local system development and land conservation I continue to work in land conservation is a really important piece of the puzzle protected and stewarded and used and proactively. We need to have viable products and that's um that's um kind of the serving on the co-op in engaging council and serving on the council that um started to appreciate the role played not just as a source for a source for products but as a but is a pillar and a space where people where people come but also but also to my app my appreciation for the time I was on the council and the council and even I missed it quite a lot missed it quite a lot >> um so I'm interested in serving interested invar to do the good work that it's been doing but also intrigued by the opportunities that things like the purchase 77 present um I to the council prior experience experience serving but like Steven bring that perspective as well as I'm generally a collaborative and responsible responsider electing me. >> Thank you Katie. Okay, I have a um I have a bunch I have a list of questions that I'm going to ask and I have one we have one question that was submitted uh from uh online from the audience and I certainly encourage in a few minutes anyone who has a question just raise your hand um we have ample time to have the candidates um and the potential appointee uh answer a question so you'll have one minute um when I raise my fist you've 10 seconds. Okay. All right. Why don't we start with we can start with um with Katie. Uh first question for for you all. Um this is core experience. What do you consider your some of you have touched on this. Um what do you consider your core areas of expertise and what relevant experience do you bring to the co co-op that qualifies you to serve on the council? um what what and you might want to throw in that expertise um that you could help out with the council and the co-op. So, you might want to expand upon a little bit of the what you may have given in your opening speech. Okay. You want to start? You got a you've got a minute. >> Okay. Um I think experience partly it I mean it honestly took me a while to learn the ropes of policy governance what it is how it works and just to understand the various ends and objectives that the co-op is trying to reach but in the time I was on the council previously I think I got a handle on that of course things have changed but um would draw on that experience I'm a regular shopper and I think that you know just being in the store is helpful for understanding what things are like what they feel like um even just uh in the process of you know putting my name in the hat and folks reaching out it's been interesting how many folks have come up to me and what about this or what about that or oh I had this interesting experience at the co-op so um I mentioned being a good listener but it's real I I listen and pay attention and I'll end there >> okay thank you one second here Carl please >> sure well I've been uh I've I've been living it for six years, three years in the mid- teens and and uh almost three years now. Um as president and my experience in includes setting the agendas for meetings, uh just laying putting the ducks out in a role for the council to take on in their meetings. Um just coordinating smooth processes or coordinating processes so they act smoothly. So, uh, we we were between general managers when I joined the council 3 years ago and, uh, Wayne was on the committee that helped us do a nationwide search for, uh, general manager. We got a number of candidates through them, and the council then, uh, did the interviews and ended up hiring Mary at that time. So, >> homegrown product. >> Homegrown product. That's right. >> That was like local. >> And, uh, you know, I I communicate. I hang out in the stores. I talk to people who come in and I write a column in the newsletter when it comes out. >> Thank you. >> Wayne, one minute. >> So, u the uh co-ops of been in my blood for a while. We actually started a community co-op in 1974 uh in Hood River, Oregon and we distributed in our living room because we had the biggest room on the on the flat where our community was. So, it's always been a part and as I mentioned earlier, uh it's always been important to me to um look at how you actually allow local communities to control their own resource base and to and manage their own livelihoods. And frankly, co-ops fit right into that. And this really uh it's kind of an extension of everything I've done in my professional career around that basic philosophy. So, it's just kind of to get back and touch base with uh one of the best operations in the area. So, >> thank you, >> Stephen. So as far as what experience I have um I served on the uh just I am elected justice piece of playing field which means I serve on the board of civil authority means I get to help determine what tax appeal the outcome I should say of tax appeals and folks who are looking for um a break on their taxes and I've served served on the board of directors at the Cutler Library. I've been on the board at Washington Electric and I've been on the board here at Hunger Mountain for a decade or so with a brief interruption about a couple years ago. And um I've also uh been um done work as a hourly paid worker in a manufacturing setting. And so I I like to think that I bring a workers's perspective to the council. Okay. >> Thank you. Uh next question. Um this is on teamwork and having been on the council for uh for 10 years with uh with three of you three of you up here um and serving on a select small. I know how valuable and how critical it is for teamwork. Um, so what is your experience on working on a team for common goals and how would you transfer that to the council? >> Wayne, you want to start us off? Um, actually Carl. >> Yeah, Carl. >> Okay, good. Give me that one through. >> Let's all get together and come up with a common answer. That would be why >> you already wasted you already wasted your 10-second team. >> Okay. Sure. Well, I find that when I'm working with myself that I have to do teamwork with myself to think things through that I often uh don't know what I think about something before I sit down and start writing about it and look at what I I just wrote and said, "Does that make any sense?" And often it doesn't and I I start over again. And then I take the same philosophy to meeting with groups of people. When when we're trying to work through something, then it really helps to uh listen to what other people have to say. It will often change my mind. A group has greater wisdom than any one person in the group. And uh we have uh we've come through a lot my time on the council and a lot of it is uh by by working together, by listening to each other, and uh being willing to change our minds. Thank you, Wayne. What's your show? >> Well, it's been a I guess I'm looking back, it's been a constant theme of what I've basically been interested in doing. And that's how you build that's how you build a community to get something done, whether that community is a local community or whether or not as a grant maker in the Ford Foundation. Um, I had uh opportunity to really bring people together. A little bit of money never hurts uh to be able to disperse, but it doesn't do any good unless you actually get people to think about what their common goals are. And in addition, I always added the caveat, common goals, local resources. And that's kind of uh continuation of that in serving on co-op council. Okay. Thank you, >> Stephen. >> I've always found the u almost religion that everything has to be done by teamwork uh kind of annoying. To me, a board or a council ought to be a collection of very diverse opinions, diverse experiences should come together and offer different perspectives on how to address or solve a problem. And then maybe the teamwork comes in where under effective leadership you find common um common characteristics and different ideas and approaches and try to work towards a a common goal. >> Okay. Thank you. Um once again if there's any question from the audience please >> Kate didn't Katie start it. >> Oh I'm sorry. I apologize. Katie, you're right. Okay. I'll try to keep track of this. Katie, please. I apologize. >> No worries. Um I I especially agree with um maybe not. Anyways, I I like where you started, Carl. Um I think again I noted I feel like one of the skills I bring is being a good listener. And I'm I'm not often the first to talk. So I'm glad to be the first to talk on this question. I feel like the the role that I often play is listening to what other people say and then kind of trying to think about like okay how do all of those things mesh together into something where like there's a little bit in everyone's perspective that is in the final result. Um like Carl I feel like almost all of my professional and volunteer experiences have involved some version of teamwork. right now work for an organization of three people where everything is decided by consensus but I think that it's through the mashing of ideas that we get to um the best the best ones that um include everything. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Um once again if there's any questions from the co-op uh or from the from the audience please please join in. Okay. Um, next question. Um, impact. What is the one thing that you would like to impact by being on the council? Some of you may have alluded to it before, but if not, would you like to Wayne? I'd like uh to see the next step forward in the co-op with the opportunities that the land has uh the available properties has added. And I think a real continuation is to outreach into the community for not only membership but also to encourage people who want to make product, who want to deliver product to the co-op. I think that's I think I'd like to see some outreach on helping people begin to produce to supply the co-op. >> Thank you, Stephen. >> If there is any one impact that I would like to be a part of, it would be bringing down costs and making the operations more efficient. Um, any way that we can increase efficiency like reducing the number of times workers have to handle a product or reducing the number of times it's moved from the point of time that it's dropped off of the dock till the time it goes out the door in a customer's cart to me has improved efficiency and it reduces labor costs. I'd also like to see co-ops like ours group together with other co-ops and form buying groups for things like health insurance, employee benefits because these costs are killing us. And I think, you know, that's one of the things I learned at Washington Electric. They have uh they have like 500,000 employees from co-ops all over the country in an insurance plan. And with that you have buying power and it reduces costs. Okay. Thank you Katie. >> Yeah I think I mean I think the call's quite lucky and that we're in a financially strong position and we have strong community support. So in a lot of ways I don't want things to change dramatically. But, um, I I think the reason why I'm most excited about the co-op is the local food sourcing and the range of local products we continue to purchase. And I'd love to see us at the very least keep that percentage staple. And if there are ways to source and sell more locally produced products to um increase the resilience of our food system, I'd be thrilled. >> Thank you, Carl. For the next year, I'd like to really work on engagement. We have over 10,000 members who participate in the co-op through their ownership of the co-op through coming in and buying the fantastic food that's there. And when we have our annual meeting later this month, we'll maybe have 150 of them come to the annual meeting. That's not atypical uh for co-ops, but with the strategic planning process starting its public engagement process in January, we really have an opportunity for people to get involved in a more substantively meaningful way. There are only nine seats on the council, but there's lots and lots of room around the many tables that we're going to have for determining the direction of the co-op. I want to see people engaged to help figure out where we're going to go next and to be will willing to work to put cooperative values into operation in other aspects of the community. >> Thank you. >> I think you had a question back there. >> Oh. Um, have you gone around full circle? >> Uh, sure. We've got plenty of time for questions. All right. I will ask a question. Um, my name is Mark Seltzer. I'm a council member and and also um a member of the co-op, of course. I wanted to hear from the candidates on sustainability. Um I'm part of the sustainability subcommittee that we have as well as my illustrious colleague here. Um I wanted to sort of find out what the council candidates would like to see in the next 5 years with respect to sustainability of co. >> Thank you for that question. Stephen, you want to start it off? >> Sure. Um I'm glad you asked that question. Um to me uh the main thing to do to make the car sustainable depends on how you define it. If you're going to define sustainability as environmental sustainability, um I I think any way the c can reduce its impact on the environment over what's already been done, there's quite a lot of progress already been made by shifting some of the different technologies. But I think trying to find out how to move product from wherever it comes from to the final consumer in the least carbonintensive way you can is a way to do it. And to that end, I'm thinking, you know, a food truck that goes down to Chelsea once a week or something like that so folks down there can shop off a truck and not have to drive all the way to one pier. Um, I've heard that things like that aren't profitable, but we've had um departments that weren't profitable before, but we uh supported them because they support our mission. >> And I will clarify my question was environmental sustainability as alluded to. >> Okay. Would you your answer is good for >> Yes. >> unless unless you want to give me another minute environmental. >> No, he's correct. Yeah. Okay, Katie. >> Um, thanks for the question. I think for me, one opportunity feels like I'm not exactly sure what it is, and I don't want to get into the weeds of it, of course, but I think improving the bulk section potentially. I've shopped a lot at the Milbury co-op in particular and I really like how central the bulk section is there to the experience and I buy a lot in bulk there and I buy a lot of course at Hunter Mountain in the bulk section as well but that just feels like a place that you know we can encourage folks to bring their own packaging and um I think there's affordability for benefits as well. >> Thank you. Yeah, there's a wonderful impact report from a statement from the co-op right up there. And in it, you can see these solar panels that generated over 400,000 kilowatt hours, 55% of our electricity usage last year. That came in part because a an earlier council worked with the previous general manager to say, "Hey, this is important for us to be be doing this to sustain our mission." Um on the other hand we do have policy governance as uh as Katie was mentioning earlier. That means that we have a distinction between what the council does as governance and what operations do. I think we have a a healthy respectful relationship with our general manager. We know that uh and she knows that sustainability is important to the council and she helps us find ways to move the store in that direction uh including more and more electrification and reduction in the use of propane and continuing to have those conversations with the operations experts is a good way forward. >> Thank you Wayne. So you I'd take that approach but I uh into the actual producers that potentially are either coming into the co-op with product or have the potential for that. Uh when we did the jobs fund we helped start several high mowing seeds for example uh we gave them their first grant to get started. It was a 10 10 grand grant and look what they've done with it. Um, so I think we ought to reach out in more active way with potential producers of produce for the co-op and work and build a team uh of of of employees that can actually counsel and help do that and maybe even a little bit of incentive funding to help some of these small growers get off the ground and I think we could take that next step frankly. >> Thank you. which actually our which actually our community fund the under mountain community fund that I've been a member since the beginning. >> Yeah. >> Tries to foster that and some of our frustrations that we don't get enough applications now. I don't normally get 10,000 but >> for the audience we always encourage >> as much participation or as much people submitting grants and we're a little disappointed actually with the amount of >> a gal who took over the jobs Ellen Kaylor that would be a good person if we haven't talked with her >> yeah no no Roman does a tremendous job for some reason I like okay thank you okay we have a question that was submitted online and that question is pretty pretty relevant. Um, well, that's a piece of paper. Okay. Um, please supply more info or uh or your opinion on the possibilities of the property um purchased next door and what your uh vision might be for that for that property. I don't you have the expertise or whatever. if you'd like to um answer that question that was submitted online. Kate, do you want to start? >> Sure. I'm still kind of up to speed for sure. But um in talking with Mary, I like Mary that it seems like you're thinking a lot about how to make the staff experience better at the co-op. So things like creating more parking spaces, not that that's, you know, the be all and end all of the property, but starting with what staff needs feels like the place to start. Um, I also would enjoy hearing about how it's being used for things like storage or things that are making it not as visible to shoppers at the co-op, but that help make things both better for staff, but also allow for things like ordering, community um, discounts. So, that's a very granular long-term. I'd love to just see a good process that takes into account staff perspectives and shopper perspectives to collectively come to a decision. >> Thank you. Carl, >> I agree 100% with Katie. I I don't see my role as stating exactly what needs to happen at that property. I think uh it needs teamwork. I think uh we have a strategic planning committee that is working very well together as a team. Uh Jeff Roberts is on that. Mary is on that. And we um need to have a process listening to the community, not only the current co-op members, but also uh people who aren't members in the community and thinking about first and foremost what our own needs are as a retail grocery store. And then beyond that, what we can put in there that will be of greatest service to the community. And we're having lots of conversations already about that and we'll be having more next year. But we bought we bought that property a year ago and uh I haven't spent a single minute regretting that choice. >> Thank you. Wait. >> You haven't? >> Good for you. >> Um I I think there's another level that uh the co-op is capable of because it's you're a big organization. You have a lot of cash flow. uh you got a couple what a couple hundred employees and and it seems to me that it could that we ought to take a look besides the office space which is critical. I mean working in the conditions you work in is amazing. Uh, but I think we got to take a look at how we could actually move in a more positive way into the community to find other resources to help people actually begin to produce to bring stuff to the co-op. uh rather than being you know on a passive state where we take you know encourage people to bring us what they've got we take the next step and we look at how we can actually work with other organizations around the state department of a jobs fund couple couple of councils to how we can actually take that next step and encourage more people to come into the co-op with product >> thank you Steve >> so I take the point about policy governance and separation of hours and so forth that this is something that's being worked on by the strategic planning committee and management and so forth. That being said, I think the questioner was asking for the individual candidates position or opinion on the matter. And uh that being said, uh my own personal observation of this new property is that it has a rather Byzantine interior. So, I I'm glad I'm not the one deciding how to use it. That being said, the space could be used for a lot of things over the parking lot. You could build um worker housing. You could build lowincome housing. You could do a lot of things in the space and still have parking underneath. Uh I think the main thing is what I said earlier that we need to make the operations more efficient in a way that reduces costs and makes it easier for the workers to do their work and any way that building can be used toward that end I think is good. Thank you. >> Yes, please. >> Um I have a question sort of a the kind of question that you know might come up in interviews. So, I figured it might work here. Um, you've all been on the council, some recently, some right now, some in the, you know, further along. But so, it applies to everyone here, I think. Just asking is there anything that you did while you were on the council uh that whether it was like something that you did as an individual or something that that u happened in a group and you were thinking gosh you know if only I had known X I would have done something different or gee you know that really didn't turn out the way that that I expected it to. I wish we had done why instead. So, I'm really curious if anybody thinks about that or has any uh response to that question just to get a sense of like, you know, your perspective as somebody that's been on the council and, you know, uh has a mind that's open enough to realize that you can that you can change the way that you do things. And if you had a chance, what would you do? >> Thank you. It's a thoughtprovoking question. Thank you. Carl, you want to start off? >> You're going to ask me that first. >> You're you're next in line. >> Okay. >> I'm trying to be fair. >> Sure. Well, I wasn't on the council at the time that uh that co hit, but I was chairing the bylaws committee and we were affected by it because we had our uh completely um redone bylaws ready to go to the members for a vote in the beginning of 2020. And then all of a sudden it became unthinkable to have a meeting of the members. And uh we we uh waited quite a while and scratched our heads until we decided in 2022, okay, it's it's safe to do this online. We we we have enough experience that we can do an entirely online meeting, debate the bylaws and and pass them. Uh so if I um you know if I had seen that coming and obviously we know that pandemics happen from time to time but if we prioritize that then uh and we knew about the timing then we could have slipped it in before things hit. Um otherwise probably the council should be looking at um well the the co-op developed a pandemic response plan after that and probably the council should be challenging management to be thinking about such things before they hit us. >> Okay. >> Thank you. I'm giving everybody a few extra seconds on this because it was an excellent question. Thank you. Um so you can have you know I don't know up to a minute and a half. Go ahead Wayne. So, Eva, I'm not quite sure what the intent of your question is. Could you >> I I just to find out what you have to say. I don't really have like I don't have an agenda. I'm just asking, you know, as people that are going to be running the council. Um, I'm just curious like how how people's minds worked. Like, oh, you know, this this turned out this way and if I had known, I would have done something. >> Well, I'm sorry I asked for clarification because uh I'm not quite sure how my mind works. That was part of the question. Um, I I really don't have a good answer for uh for your your question. I think it's important that, you know, we use the resources we have, but at the same time as a co-op, I think we always need to be reaching out into the community. And any innovative way that we can use that benefits us not only from more customers, but also from possibly more resources in the uh in the community. So, I I don't know if that answers it or not, but u hopefully I got I can skate from here to there. >> You're taking you're taking the short- winded answer on this one. >> Yes. >> Okay. Like like the skilled politician that he is. >> You said it. Exit, please. >> Okay, Stephen, you're up. Um, I I I'm going to rephrase the question and make sure I'm hitting it right. Is there anything that in uh having looked back on it would have handled differently if we had known such and such. Is that >> Yeah. Or if you just realized you could have done something differently after the fact anything or not. First thing that comes to mind about that is I think it would have been really good to have had some past experience or some knowledge about how to handle a crisis like the one we had in 2023. It would have been really good to have some good wisdom about how to address that before we were plunged into the depths of it. And I don't have any bright ideas to share right now, but just saying that >> that was one of those times and it would have been really nice to have a method by which to conduct some really good community engagement and maybe not have the kind of blowback that we had. >> Thank you, Katie. >> Um, it's a good question. I'm not sure that I have a good answer for it. the place that my brain is going even just like understanding policy evidence and what it is and what the council's role is it >> that's a good >> I mean I'm going to have to if anything be learning um but I think just just understanding like what things the council can and should be doing and tracking and monitoring something that I'm I did my best to fully appreciate while I served previously but I think the best of the thing I want to do more of going forward. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay. If anything else comes to mind, please, we still have plenty of time for some more questions. Um, okay. Here's here's an interesting question. um on handling difficult people. Can you tell a time in your either board's experience andor life or uh work experience when you had to deal with a difficult board member or in professional relationship? How did you respond and what was the outcome? >> I think Wayne, I think you are. Give me give me a couple seconds here. It's a long list. Tell me when you go tell me when you're ready >> the uh uh I that it's always when you have especially personnel issues it's always difficult to approach it and um I found after several you know mistakes and and tough situations that uh you really need to be upfront with the person that you're engaged with either to fire or to whatever and to um but to first to listen. I mean, you can state you state your issue and then you always give the persons you're dealing with an opportunity on level ground to state their point of view. And that can sometimes be a little bit um tough, but you have to set the environment. You have to set the environment so that the issues you're dealing with get up on the table and get dealt with. And I've always found direct approach and I've I've had my share. So, >> thank you, >> Stephen. >> I don't see why I need this skill. There's never any difficult people in the council or >> or or in life. >> Which council you met on? >> And so I buted heads with some of you. Hold on one second. I'm going to start over. >> Um, so I I think what Wayne says about listening is good. I I think another technique that is good is to not just simply listen to hear what they say, but to do the best you can to process in your mind the most benign interpretation you can come up with of what they said and repeat it back to them. You mean so and so. this is what you're trying to say. Make sure you clearly understand them and then um you either let it sit and and percolate on it for a while or if you've got an immediate response then you give that response. >> Thank you Katie. >> Yeah, certainly agree with what Stephen and Mary said. Um, I think as much as possible listening to what the person um is upset about or worried about, but then like asking a couple of questions to try to say like, can you tell me more about this or that because sometimes it's like there's the surfacing, but then I think there's also sometimes context that doesn't come off in the first sentence or two. Um so giving that space while at the same time I think also being clear about you know here are the things that are possible or aren't possible or here are the things that are in my control and not in my control. Um so I think it's a combination of listening but then also being clear about like where are my boundaries in terms of um what I can't do anything about. >> That last point is very important. I think that's that's absolutely key. You have to have a standard. You have to understand the person's point of view, but you have to have a standard that you can stand on. >> That I thought that was great. >> Thank you, Katie Carl. >> Yeah, all my colleagues have said wise things here. So, uh uh but I will follow that up by saying uh you know, it's a rule of thumb that in a relationship you should be making at least five deposits into the so-called emotional bank account. uh for every withdrawal that you make. And so what uh you can do before the time of difficulty arises is just to be building respect and listening to people and uh giving credit to people for for their good work and good ideas and just uh enjoying working together. Um and then I I think what Wayne said is uh just now is is very true as well that um you have to be prepared for different outcomes. One is working through the difficulty together when it arises getting to the other side and the other is saying this this can't work and on the council we have um under my leadership we have uh voted off one member because he was not in alignment with the council and that was after a long process working with him. We have to be ready for to do that as well. >> Thank you. Okay, next question. from your moderator actually. Um, the greatest challenge facing the co-op today in your opinion and what would that be? >> Oh, I think Stephen, you're up. The greatest challenge facing the co-op today. Um, as I understand it, it's maintaining growth and m and control of costs. Our insurance recently went up by a significant amount the last time it was renewed. Um, we want to pay our staff generously and we want to provide them with a benefit package, but it's becoming more and more of a challenge to do that. I think the main thing is we're in a situation where we've grown about as much as we can grow and so we can't depend a lot on growth to sustain sustain the store. So we're going to have to be thinking more about how to um make a profitable business without so much growth as we've had in the past. >> Thank you. >> Katie, you want to take that one? I was going to say a lot of what Stephven just said but with less detail. So I think kind of to sum up like balancing our commitments within us all of our commitments to staff producers toward shoppers but also keeping cost reasonable. >> Carl your your words of wisdom. >> Uncertainty. We live in a time right now when anything can happen in Washington and by extension in the rest of the world affecting us or affecting uh the energy supplies that come to us from all over the world. I woke up on my birthday to find that we started an a stupid war and that that was closing down a straight that 20% or 25% of the world's oil supply, a lot of the fertilizer uh went through regularly and we've been dealing with that ever since. Um we uh we have an election coming up that's threatened. Uh we take our democracy for granted and when we can't even do that anymore, it's very hard to make planning decisions for a business. Um but also uncertainty in terms of sustainability which we were talking about earlier. Uh when I was a kid, we were talking about sustainability and the limits to growth and the the world has kept growing and growing using more and more resources and becoming more and more fragile. It's like taking Jenga blocks out of a stand and we never know when the tipping point is going to be where we'll have a huge swing in the climate where we'll have forest fires in Vermont every year to deal with uh where things will change radically for us. How do you plan in a time of uncertainty both human politically caused and also human caused through sustainability questions Wayne? >> Well that's a tough one. Um, in normal times, which we're not in, as you've described, um, I I would be, uh, in favor of using our resources to really look at expansion. Uh, because that's in a way your your that is somewhat of a guarantee for your survival. Times are different today. Uh, we don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. uh and I think a cushion uh in our uh operations uh a little bit of a cushion to fall back on is going to be very important going forward. I I I can't believe I'm saying that but u I just think we're in a very different time and and u a cushion would be important. >> Okay. Well, that brings us to the end of our questions unless we have a last minute question. Okay, we're right on we're right on time here for um finishing up just around seven. Uh closing statements. Uh please limit yourself to around 90 seconds and uh the content. Please summarize your positions, reiterate the your commitment to the co-op and make a fervent appeal to the voters >> in in 90 seconds. Right. >> In 90 seconds. >> Got it. have this down. >> Okay. And uh I think we'll let's start with Stephen. >> Sure. Um I think that um what Carl touched upon regarding uh uncertainty is really strikes at the heart of what we have to face today. It's it's amazing how we have gone from a time when I mean the co-op obviously functions on the cooperative model but in a looser way we live in a cooperative community where various players play certain roles and make everything work and we've become accustomed to a certain amount of things working between the states and Washington and so forth and now are in this place where you never know what's going to be extinguished tomorrow or what fire is going to be set tomorrow. And so I guess I would say that one of the things that the co-op needs to be thinking about is how it's going to function in the in the event of a threemon power outage because of vandals or god knows what on the electric grid. um how is it going to be able to function and help the community in the event of some emergency either created or whatever. Um and it also means I think that every organization is going to have to figure out ways to be not necessarily work independently but be prepared to work independently if that's needed. Um, outside of that, um, I would like to thank everybody who's shown up to listen to the proceedings tonight, and I appreciate your support, and thank you for joining us. Thank you, Steve. Okay, Katie. Well, we're going to continue our clockwise uh review. >> All righty. Um well well yeah everyone thank you all for coming and listening this evening and thanks for thinking about me as a potential candidate. I enjoyed serving on the council for the two years in 2018 to 2020 and would like to do so again. Um and if anything the past hours conversation is a reminder of why I enjoyed doing it and thinking about really big challenges and really small challenges all in the same conversation. Um, I think the co-op sets the model of the food system and community support that we want to be part of. And despite some of the broader challenges of the world, I found it and um I find it really inspiring that the co-op persists as that model and it's a place where we lean in and see things change. Some of the solar didn't exist, but I was on the council and now it does. So, kudos. Um, so thank you for presenting our application. >> Thank you Katie Carl. >> Thank you Scott for leading us once more in this candidate forum and to everybody who's come, everybody who's online and the people who made this possible Aby and the other folks from Orca, the folks from community relations who advertised this, put out this great spread. uh the food folks back at the co-op, the prepared food folks who made this for us and to my fellow candidates. Uh uh we're going to have fun this year. We roll up our sleeves and uh do a lot of good together. Um it is an exciting time to be associated with a co-op perhaps and uh because of the uncertainty in the world. Uh when I was first when I first joined as president and we were searching for a GM, I called around to a bunch of people who'd been involved in GM searches in other co-ops and one person worked with uh dozens of co-ops and uh he said, "Boy, this is a plum job at Hunger Mountain Co-op. It's a financially healthy co-op. You've got a good community. You've got committed workers and uh anybody would want to be a GM there." And I I agree. Um we've we've got a strong local food system that we are embedded in as well and we've done our part to strengthen that local food system. Now we are poised to plan our next three years, our next 5 years and to make good use of the new resource that we have at 707 Stone Cutters Way. We're in in an even stronger position than we were two and a half years ago and I look forward to helping us move in a direction of greater strength and greater influence for the benefit of the community. Thank you. >> I guess I'll follow on from that. I think we may be facing additional opportunities for uh utilization and applying our resource base in the community. And um we have how many? 200 how many employees? >> Nearly 200. >> Nearly 200. Uh and they're obviously not in the upper income brackets. And I'm just wondering uh what we as a co-op can do to just look ahead and prepare for times that may get a lot tougher, especially for the lower income people in the community. And I think I think we have I think we have an opportunity as a unique organization and a fairly healthy organization um to explore what we might be able to do as an organization uh in light of the increasing pressure on lower income individuals in the community. So that's >> okay. >> Well, thank you. >> Thank you, Scott. >> Thank you. Thank you all. It's uh exactly 7:00. We started at 6. >> Good work. Good job. >> We're ending at 7. >> Well done. >> Um we have um for the next 20 or 25 minutes, the audience would like to stick around and uh and speak to the candidates on an individual basis. Um maybe Katie, I'm not sure how they can kind of circle you into this. Maybe with some sign language. Um but anyway, >> we leave the microphone on. >> Yeah, leave the microphone on. Exactly. Absolutely. Anyway, thank you for all coming and it's been an honor to be involved. Love the co-op and uh thank you all. >> Thank you. >> Good luck and good luck to all the kids. Thank you.