Human Rights Commission Meeting Sep 16, 2026

Hello. Hello. >> Oh, hi. >> Hi, Jay. >> Hi there, Milan. Hi. >> Hi, Jay. Good. How are you? >> Oh, trying to figure things out here. I think I think the first technological thing will be when we have the public, you know, come in and it will be my first experience to figure out how to let them in. >> Well, that's taken care of by me. All you have to do is just acknowledge whoever it is that you want. >> Okay. Hey Milan, >> how are you? >> Hi. You doing well? Good to see you. Jay, Philip, what? >> Silus looks really happy. >> Well, you know, I I wore the right t-shirt color today. I noticed we're like mostly all wearing black. So, >> something's happening here. There's a >> There's a vibe going on. Yeah, we're we're on team here. >> I think we're all standing up. >> I think we're all standing up against the graffiti nonsense going on in town. We got to do something. >> Yes. >> So, >> you need one more person for a quorum. >> Well, I just texted Mata. She's going to do the weaponization stuff. She said she's ready. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm also still uh at Ammeris Media because uh I have a planning board meeting to start as well at 6:30. So, >> Oh, okay. >> Hello. >> Hi, Matia. >> Hello. Let's see here. There we go. So that's >> and then I can see you all. >> All right. Well, you have a quorum. Uh Jay or Milan. >> Okay. >> Jay, go ahead. >> Okay. The time is 6:00 p.m. in Ammerst, Massachusetts. and I declare the meeting for the human rights commission open. Pursuant to chapter 2 of the acts of 2025, this meeting will be conducted via remote means and the members of the public who wish to access the meeting remotely may do so via Zoom or by telephone. uh no in-person attendance of members of the public who will be permitted but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. So with that we need to do a roll call. Um, okay. Blan, our co-chair >> present. >> Silus, go ahead. >> Here. >> Matea. >> Matia, present. >> Matia, sorry. And Jay, present. Uh, do we have anybody else? No, not yet. Well, we do have four people. So, according to the bylaws, we have a quorum. We may move ahead. So the first item on the agenda beyond the call to order is public comment. Do we have anybody who wish to engage in public comment? >> You have a few hands that want to >> Do you want to call? >> I need to read the uh >> the statement. Yeah. >> Um, okay. During the public comment period, the chair will recognize members of the public. When called on, please identify yourself by stating your full name, preferred pronouns, and residential address. Of course, you don't have to give the full address. You could simply state your district. The town of Amos. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. Go >> uh at the discretion of the chair based upon the number of people wish to speak. No person may seed the time to another speaker. The HRC will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during public comment. Uh public comments are not reflective of the opinions of the commission. So, it turns over to Phillip. >> You just call on um whoever you want me to bring in, but um Rswana just entered the room. If you could acknowledge her. >> Okay. Rswana. >> Yeah. Hi. Hi, I'm here. >> Okay. Rswana present. Please note that in the minutes. >> So, we move on to public comment. Go ahead, Phil. In whatever order. >> Okay. Um, I'm just going to go in the order that they're appearing on my screen. So, I will allow Evan to speak right now. >> Hi, good evening. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Awesome. Thank you. Um, yes. My name is Evan Naymith. I'm from District 5. Um, I spoke to you a couple weeks ago about the 4 plus unrelated bylaw. I see that it's on your schedule and I just wanted to um just say thank you for taking the time to address this concern. Um we don't know how many people it affects and uh we don't know what kind of condition it puts them in. Um I know last time I referenced the fact that Colorado had abolished this type of law back in 2024, but of course my printer wasn't working, so I wasn't able to print out the signing statement for you. Um, I wanted to just kind of uh tell you a couple of the things that the representatives from Colorado said uh in the in the signing statement which accompanied the abolition of this type of uh bylaw. So, this is Democratic Governor uh Jared Pus. I am thrilled to take this bold step today to cut red tape and get the government out of the business of telling people who they can live with. This is one of many comprehensive steps Colorado is taking to ensure Coloradoatans can live in the communities they choose near jobs and transit hubs and with the people with whom they want. Um Manny Rutinel, Democrat from Commerce Cities said Coloradoatans need to take a multiaceted approach to address the housing crisis. By banning discriminatory occupancy limits, we can create more budget friendly housing opportunities. discriminatory occupancy limits have placed too many Coloradoatans out of their communities. Uh Julie Gonzalez, Democrat from Denver, and they keep going like this, but I'll make this one the last one. Um, ending discriminatory occupancy limits is a great way to break down housing barriers and create a more equitable market. These limits disproportionately affect historically marginalized communities that may have diverse family structures. I'm extremely pleased to see a bill that will lift outdated occupancy limits and give Coloradoatans a wider range of housing occupant options uh get signed into law. So everybody everybody who committed to this legislation were progressive Democrats. They all acknowledged that these types of bylaws are discriminatory and that uh in the words of Julie Gonzalez, they uh disproportionately affect historically marginalized communities. Um, uh, once again, thank you for addressing this this important issue in our community, and I look forward to hearing what you have to say about it today. Thank you. >> Thank you. Next. >> Next is Ken. >> Thank you. My name is Ken Rosenthal. I live on Sunset Avenue. Um I do agree that the Ammersonian BO2.162 needs to be altered. The number of people need to be reduced from four to three. That would permit three students to live there who are unrelated. It would also permit a senior couple in their aging who might be unrelated to live there with a caregiver. This is important because we know the problems that have been caused by student residences in housing in the center of town residential areas. It's been very disruptive and you've heard a lot about that. I want to talk to you about why it's better to make this town a place not the the off-campus place as a place for year- round residents for people who live here who work here who spend their holiday gatherings here who register their cars here and therefore the money for the registration going to the town of Ammerst and I want to tell you that it used to be that way. I used to I lived here then. UMass used to house almost all of its students. I lived here then. UMass and Ammerst and that little college down the road called Hampshire and town offices had most if not all but most of their faculty, staff, regular employees living here, not living someplace else. I lived here then. I lived here when the people who wanted to work in this town were able to live in this town, pay rent to people in this town and afford to walk and be able to walk to work. It's a community that we can have again. The university used to res uh used to provide housing for all of its students. I lived here then. This was back yes a long time ago. I was a student here and I was here at the beginning of Hampshire College. So I've been involved and I first came to live in this town in 1956. A long time ago, but this was a town that worked very well that way and it can be that way again. I want to also just add one more thing and then I'll be quiet. The demand from university students for residential living any place is infinite. No matter how many people the town off-campus town provides spaces for, there will be more people who want to come here. That's because thousands of UMass students are not accommodated, not hundreds. So we can't pretend that we can handle them all in town. The university needs to stand up and needs to use public private partnership to provide housing on campus. They can do it. If we ask them to do it, they will do it. We have to put pressure on them to do it. I want to make this town friendly for those who want to live and work here. Thank you very much for listening to me. >> Thank you, Phillip. Anymore? >> There are no more hands up right now. >> Then we'll simply move ahead. The next thing we move we go to is the minutes and the approval of that. But before we move there, are there any changes that you wish to add to the minutes? Amendments. Well, if there are no changes, then should we have a motion to accept? >> My motion to approve the minutes. >> I I can second. >> Okay. Silus seconds and the minutes are approved. >> You have to uh >> we have to vote. >> Sorry. We have to vote on that. Sorry. Uh okay. Vote. Um Milan, >> yes. >> Silus, >> yes. >> Matia, >> yes. >> Yes. myself. Yes. So, it's a unanimous yes. And now we're moving along member reports. Uh do we have any? Uh I just wanted to highlight one thing since I'm a part of the UMass Ammerst community. um they are currently doing a know your rights um webinars and information for for students and so I'll be attending the one of the upcoming ones. Um but I just thought I'd flag that since that's been a priority area for us and that um the at least the UMass Ammeris campus community. I don't know what Ammerst and other Emer College and others are doing, but I do know that that's that's certainly been a priority with both changes in uh the administration for lots of lots of different things for international students. Um and so I am planning on attending that and I will uh share out if I uh identify or find anything useful for this commission and the purposes of the uh information sharing. Okay. Is there anybody else? >> Thank you, Silus. >> Yeah, I just uh have something to add that um that a member we have had, Alex, uh did resign and um I thought I should bring that to your notice. Reasons are personal. And so with that in mind, I contacted Angela Mills from the town manager's office and she called me back today and said that she will try to fill in that vacancy that's available for HRC. If you know anybody yourselves to lure them to do some important town work, >> will that be available on the town website in terms of the application link and when might we expect that to open? >> Anybody can um apply to the interest form. It's just a general interest form and then you choose um which one you're interested in. So if anybody from now till whenever selects HRC Angela is making note of it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yep. >> Uh is there anything else under member reports? No, we just move along. So the next thing on the agenda uh under new business uh we've had some disturbing incidents happening in the town including you know graffiti uh racist graffiti spread uh or spray painted around the town and there are number of you know other issues. In fact, Milan at our last meeting brought that salient issue uh to our attention. So, I'd actually like to defer to him to uh see, you know, how we should proceed further with that and to share any information you may have. >> Sure. Um so what we had discussed was the agenda items that are that actually appear on the agenda. Um they are the um topics that we would like to form subcommittees around to look into further. Um and the we weren't quite sure which subcommittees to have initially. So that's why we selected them as the topics. um for we didn't want to create a statement about uh a matter without having much information on it. So we are hoping that by uh creating a subcommittee to investigate this issue uh we can come back and have uh more information about it. Um, but from what I've heard so far was just that there were a couple of uh uh white supremacist symbols that were um spray painted on some electrical boxes and um I believe it was uh DPW just uh cleaned them off or attempted to paint over them and it ended up making it worse, more prominent. Uh so I believe that there was uh they came um I think the police came back to paint over it. Um but yeah so I am I don't have very many details. So, I'm hoping that we can form a subcommittee to investigate that >> and I guess um Okay, Rosswana. >> Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out how can we investigate like do you have any plan in your mind where we have the skills or where does this happen in the bylaw? and then just to uh maybe speak with uh maybe the police department or a town official about the matter and uh actual more uh and get some more information and details before releasing a statement about it. So maybe there are specific objectives like specific questions that we supposed to ask because I don't know as a lay person I have never been you know so those questions that will create a good background for the um you know the letter that we send out because we need to ask some salient pointed questions to get the right info because they will will be very brief basically knowing the police and all of them. They are very uh careful with their wordings and how much they have to reveal. They are not going to reveal anything new to us especially. So we will have to ask them something specific and what they're doing moving forward and so on. That's the only thing we can ask moving forward what they are doing >> and how many incidents have there been um things like that. >> Yeah. And what is the trajectory? Do you see any kind of a graph there? We can look into that and what how they're dealing with that because we cannot go into the narrative of philosophizing you know it's just that why and how what they are doing what is their process just like the complaint system we created we just want to get to know what kind of process they are using that's all I guess unless you have something else >> no I mean that's definitely yeah that's definitely a start um just to uh get to well that would be uh I guess what I would consider investigating just investigating the procedure around it, how they're handling it, how many incidents there have been uh their communication practices around it, what their policy is with revealing information, those types of things. >> Yeah. And there's another thing also if the cameras are being used, you know, we can use the same tactics as we used in the ICE situation when we are talking to police especially, you know, because they have the tools. Do they have any cameras in the public spaces? Should they are they planning to put some u cameras there? But then we have anti- camera flock sentiment also quite prevalent nowadays. So how much can we go into this priv privacy situation? So but the cameras will be most effective in these public if they h happening in the same place repeatedly. >> Well, it is you know first of all illegal in the town to have such cameras. you know, there's a bot to that effect. So, they can't so they can't do that. And I specifically asked Chief Ting about that issue about flock cameras. I even took a picture of one and said and, you know, texted it to him and he said, "That's not in our town. We have none." and he showed me one camera uh on Sunderland Street, he said, which is operated by Mass Dot. And the its purpose apparently is simply to check on traffic that estimates time when when we see I guess on a board on a street saying that you are 12 minutes away from Springfield. This helps them to calculate that. So that's its purpose apparently. So I mean that's the only information I have about cameras. Um so uh how we go further uh there was a statement made by the town saying that you know this kind of behavior is unacceptable etc. And what is not pointed enough to me about such a statement it's like it's like all lives matter kind of thing. These kinds of symbols affect specific communities. It doesn't affect everybody at the same level. It's a very targeted thing. And so it's important that we on the HRC issue a statement that is more targeted to those communities, those specific communities that are hurt by this. uh so we need somebody on the subcommittee to work on that you know to uh glean the background information on that and then to come up with a statement on behalf of the HRC. So who wishes to serve on that? >> Okay. I have something else to add to this to what Jay just said about the cameras. The fact is there might be cameras in a specific house next door in a private homes or stores and so on. That is a possibility. Yeah, I'm sure that the police uh you know do use that from time to time in including including UMass and some other schools that do have cameras because they don't have the same laws that we have in the town per se because that's you know that's a private space they can do whatever they want. Uh so to go back to the issue about about the subcommittee I mean do we have to vote on this first two or >> we could take volunteers or I guess >> volunteer let's just call for volunteers and it can't be more than two otherwise we're going to get a quorum or something so okay one okay we wish to work with him >> on that I can do it >> yeah I can >> okay Okay. Okay. Very good. >> So, we have a subcommittee on that issue of antilack issues in the town involving racism. We'll be looking for information and hopefully a statement emerges from that. So, are we all okay with that? as we are now. Yes. Can we keep moving? >> Yes. >> All right. >> Very good. We'll move on. The next issue is something that came up at the last meeting, which is the weaponization of anti-semitism. It's an important issue both locally and globally. And you know, Matia was the one who broached the subject at the last meeting. She's our lead in this area. So I yield the floor to you. >> Thank you Jay. Um so I prepared a few slides or I'm bringing in a few slides that um were created by um Rabbi Shahar Colt who's a local resource. And I'm going to go quickly through a couple of them to ground us into in the topics. And then the last there's there's about six slides and the last couple are going to circle to topics that this commission has been working on including protecting um folks from ICE and um issues that are very um clear and present in our community and have been on the radar of this commission. Um but first um we're just going to ground ourselves in this topic. It's a really complicated topic. I'm going to go through the initial slides quickly in order to be respectful of our time. Feel free to interrupt verbally. I'm not going to be able to see your hand once I share my screen. So, if you have a question, interrupt. Um, just go ahead and interrupt. So, uh, we can't talk about weaponized accusations of anti-semitism without first just very briefly divine defining anti-semitism, which is oppression that specifically targets Jewish people. And as with virtually all forms of hate and bias, it harms society by blaming a subgroup instead of addressing underlying issues. Um, on the on the other side, what is a weaponized accusation of anti-semitism or weaponized anti-semitism? Um, and we're going to build our understanding of that. um anti-semitism is on the rise is something that is a statement that has been um in the news quite a bit and um it's also the case that forces of marginalization of all kinds um are rising across the board including anti-black racism as we were just talking about and xenophobia and islamophobia and transphobia all of these forms of bias are on the rise. Um at the same time when we've heard about rising anti-semitism um and this came up specifically here in Massachusetts with something called the special commission on combating anti-semitism which was formed um in by the state house in um through state legislation and issued a report that said anti-semitism is on the rise here in Massachusetts and it used among other sources data collected by the anti-defamation league uh known as the ADL And we're not going to get into these charts, but this is an examination of the data that claim that makes claims about rising anti-semitism. This uh research was conducted by the magazine Jewish Currents. And what they found was that a great deal of the uh allegedly anti-semitic incidents that the ADL was tracking and tabulating were statements or actions in solidarity with Palestinian liberation. and that those statements and/or actions were categorized as anti-semitism. Why would support for Palestinian rights be categorized as anti-semitic? We're going to take one second here and just acknowledge the diversity among Jewish people. And this is true um with virtually all subgroups. Um Jewish people are not a monolith. Uh, Jewish people are um come of all races, of all parts of the globe, of all places on the socioeconomic spectrum, certainly of all political orientations. And it's it's not appropriate for any government body to define Judaism. Uh, and it's also for the purposes of this uh conversation important to note that for some Jewish people, the state of Israel is essential to their Jewish identity. For some Jewish people, the state of Israel is a complicated and painful topic. And for some Jewish people, the state of Israel is irrelevant to their Jewish identity. A weaponized accusation of anti-semitism attempts to shut down discourse and or shut down people. Um these accusations typically target Palestinian people and allies who are speaking up for Palestinian justice. And um in the next slide here um and actually before I I let me just that this one before I go to that slide I just want to pause any questions and then now we're going to in the next slide circle into the issue of ice and things happening you know sort of here on the ground. Okay, so last year in 2025 here in Massachusetts, TUS graduate student Resa Ozurk was abducted by ICE agents for the alleged crime of writing an editorial that called on TUS to divest from companies with ties to Israel. A federal judge later ruled that ISIS policies utilized quote a definition of anti-semitism that encompassed protected political speech. and bringing this into our work as a commission. Um, I think it's not uh hard for anyone to uh hear. We were are likely all on the same page that regarding reports of anti-semitism um as with all complaints of human rights violations um we will follow best practices um and um uh provide a acknowledgement and care to the affected party and and um an investigation um happens when the parties request it. But the purpose of this conversation here is to ask um if we have a role um in uh in this topic um and specifically acknowledging that anti-semitism is being weaponized here in Massachusetts um to restrict uh first amendment protected speech. um do we have a role as a body in affirming the right to engage in political speech and or um does this does this body have um a role or um something to say on this topic? So that's my um extremely brief um primer on this very complicated topic. and um Philip will share the PDF of these slides and thank you Phillip um with everybody so that you have them before I stop sharing is there any are there any questions about anything here and and then I will stop the screen share okay >> no no thank you this is instructive >> okay so it's a huge and challenging topic and also one of um you know that's a very timely issue for quite a few reasons um but I wanted to bring it to our attention um especially because like whe to explore the question of whether this commission can engage in anything proactively um to um protect political speech and um or or not. Um and so I think I'll stop there and um uh for discussion. >> Yes, sus >> Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention and for sharing those slides. That's very helpful primer and uh engagement into the topic. I am curious about your perspective in terms of where this where you're imagining this going for the commission and what you know avenues might look like. So, one thing that could be um an area for us is to um so again this is a very complicated topic but when we talk about human rights here in Ammerst I think that one thing that this issue gets into or gets toward is that people do not have a right to not hear or to silence speech that they disagree with. And this is really hard because um we also we do not want uh hateful speech and but the what the speech that people um in what people consider hateful speech varies and so um this is a very difficult topic and it's also significant because um I mean as the reason I brought the Romea Ourk example in is because this issue clearly anti-semitism M is being weaponized to um consolidate power in the executive branch of our government. This is the edge of authoritarianism. And so it's very present. It's it's very urgent. And it's possible that we could um try to stake out a leadership position in saying even as we um uh oppose hate in all forms, we affirmatively um stand for first amendment protected speech. And that it's that's a delicate it's a delicate and important walk. Milan, sorry, I muted myself as >> you're muted. >> Thank you. Um yeah, just to add to that as well, the fact that there were protests that were happening on UMass campus and UMass is within the town of Ammerst and if uh uh anti-semitism is being weaponized against UMass students to expel them from school, they do have their rights that uh we that fall under our jurisdiction. So I think uh we can also be a place for them to come as well uh once we uh if uh there's a statement that's made that's also quite clear about what that is and what uh what someone's rights are around that. >> That's such a good point Milan. I mean we could one thing that's this body could do is make a statement retroactively. I wasn't obviously here in the spring of 2024 when students were arrested um and um some barred from campus. Um and uh I um we could make a statement about that and how and um and what we you know in in part of making a forward-looking statement um about our work in the town. >> Yeah. And like using it as a reference. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah, basically you know we can create a pattern. Thank you Mata for sharing such a knowledgeable and so systemic kind of a slide that really makes sense. I can uh add to the that is the way we started this meeting with with Milan saying let's make report by investigating. Investigating is not in the proper sense but it's like an oversight committee on human rights. So you you go there ask the person who is wearing the badge. So we can go ask put them give them a little uh discomfort you know give them because that is our role. We need to make them dis you know uncomfortable because they are the ones who are uh holding the position they are the elected or they have the position. So the same thing we can do with you uh with Mata's slide and after this is this is so important and you brought everything together we can go and under human rights committee we just ask them what happened and we create some kind of a pattern of asking the same questions and then from that we highlight using their names and create a statement everything doesn't have to be you know I don't believe that we find scape goes but we just need to lay out there so that people can see the names and what happened from our perspective. That's it. That that if we continue doing uh doing that we will get the motivation to actually be play you know by playing a part there instead of just sitting on the sidelines. >> Well I think that the I mean profile of of this town is quite unique. It is a college town and opinions, intellectual thought, um the issues of culture, you know, contestation of things involving power and culture, race, ethnicity, gender, um you know, political state entities, those are all at play in this one term. And so it can be localized but it can have global you know ramifications as well because it's an issue of not just the identity of those who are involved in the weaponization is also the identity of the people in the town. So, you know, there's a lot at stake there. And I think that a wellthoughtout statement that does protect free speech in the town that protects the identities of all uh people who are, you know, within our limits here. I think you know that's a worthwhile thing to do and it will have you know farreaching I think ramifications in the sense that you know others looking at our statement will know will know that this is what we stand for. Yeswana. All right. Basically we I don't I b personally the way I act is I don't go into too much of abstraction because we already know the underpinning things what's going on. We totally know we everybody's on the same page but we are looking at a little piece that we have and as in the retreat also we have to be honest about what we are doing and we should proactively doing it because this is not an academic narrative where we just we just philosophize and we continuously just talk about it. See that is the the reason I joined this committee also that proactively like Matia has brought out this she gave us a proper uh motivation so now and Milan has said let's go investigate so let's start with that and because there are things they are playing out but we don't need to discuss that because we all know about them you know so uh Jay is saying also basically approving the fact that we should act um with this investigation and then a statement followup. >> Yes, sis. Um, thank you all for sharing those thoughts and also your process in terms of how this could go into effect potentially both retroactively with UMass, but also I think there's right as we're we're seeing in Massachusetts in the news with say Ed Sheeran or Mmore um and that uh that's happening. I could certainly see this being a space where we could um be a leader in what we're sharing and thinking carefully about it. So um I for one would be like happy to and and would be um maybe happy isn't the right word, but would um be interested in continuing the conversation and and supporting if we were to form any kind of subcommittee or other anything else to continue this um discussion. >> Well, it seems to me that we should move forward on this. I mean I think that we have a good sense of where we are that we know that we are um stressed in the issues of freedom of speech and things like that and you know that's a fundamental right and it does affect the lives in this town because there are many professors students uh who you know whose lives are on the line whether they speak or not and that's a very real thing you know I mean grant money adding up to millions and billions of dollars all around the country uh you know that's affected that includes research money here at the university and at Ammerst College so I mean you know it does affect us all in that way because there's a standard of living too that we have in the town so so with that in mind I think we should move forward toward um you know having our lead you know Matia We are trying to, you know, figure out with a member of the subcommittee to, you know, work on a statement that we can all work around and then maybe edit and work on that further and then have that as being a part of where we stand. >> That's great. And I I'm also thinking about the connections between the work on anti-black racism in Amoris and in the like what we're calling for is um in like with the graffiti that we're seeing. It's not enough to wipe it away and say, you know, all people were affected and what we need to name who who's harmed and um what are the underlying issues and I think those might be threads that we can connect to these these two different topics because um we don't want to be seen as silencing some speech and and not others and we don't want to we we want to have a clear um a clear approach. And I think so like as opposed to silencing, we want to talk about who's harmed in in um all of these cases. Um and that um yeah, I think that that um so there's connections uh connections to be made and um thank you Silus for that. Yeah, I think um I think let's just form the subcommittee now. So, you know, we obviously have to have the lead who is Matia who is uh you know who has set this up. So, I mean who wants to volunteer to work with her? Okay. Silus said you wanted to help out, right? So, why not? >> Yes. >> But, um I quick question though just in terms of clarity. Were you thinking one statement that would uh talk about both issues in which case would that be kind of like a collaboration with the other subcommittee or how how are you thinking because I hear kind of a broader approach piece which would is within that is subnested or not subnested but a part of our communication and so I'm wondering about interaction too if there if that was to happen between subcommittees how would that work? Are you asking me based on what I had just said? >> Yes. >> Yeah. No, it's a really important question. What I um am sort of calling for is to make sure that we have a coherent policy like as a commission um that we're um we don't want to um silence we want to yeah a coherent policy and talking about who was harmed what happened and who was harmed and um so I guess I don't know the answer to that silus but I think that we can have a separate statement talking about what happened in 2024 before and looking ahead. Um, and maybe the having a policy, uh, maybe Milan has something articulate to say about this, having a policy as a commission about how we how we deal with things without silencing them. Milan, please go ahead. Yeah, I think like um just maybe just having a uh a uniform way of approaching the two topics so that we can cover the same bases with them or the same areas and then cover the harm and they both are uh issues that don't begin now. They've already begun in the past. So we can trace uh historic roots to the present um on both topics and the impact and the harm that they've caused to others. uh they could be separate but in the same format it'll be easy to see uh side by side. >> I just think you know logistically it'll be easier to do two separate ones. uh it's it's easier to work on that I think you know a separate task but we'll keep the same you know animating forces and you know consistency in uh how we um you know leverage these points uh that articulates what HRC stands for and what we want to say. >> Got it. Okay. Thanks for clarifying that. >> Okay. So um so do we have um a subcommittee formed for the weaponization aspect? >> Silus and Matia. >> Okay. Silus and Matia. Let's record that. So I'm going to just move ahead. Um okay. response to the Amos zoning bylaw 12 uh.162. We had uh a speaker earlier and of course since we can't comment on the speaker um it is an issue here so I'll just defer to you know Milan to lead into that. Um well I'm wasn't going to necessarily introduce the topic entirely but well yeah because actually what we had discussed before was uh not inviting certain speak u speakers back for a detailed address on the topic. Um but we could but to um well that's what we had voted on. uh what the goal or intention here would be to just look into the matter about uh the origins of this type of uh bylaw. If it was a human rights matter to begin with uh by people cramming a bunch of people into uh houses and then the bylaw may have been passed in order to make it uh you know more of a a human rights to address the human rights concern or if it is limiting human rights based on that. So that would have been something to that's just something to look into the uh reasoning behind why the bylaw was created and also where to uh be able to look into that background. I'm not sure where to find the uh historical information. I think that I mean one of the um you know issues here to me certainly is that even if that particular bylaw passes must master through the courts let's say it passes the law uh by a district court it passes the state court it passes scrutiny by the federal court that does not mean that there are no harms involved with human rights involving human rights. So that's the aspect that we should look at you know not just the legal parts but to look specifically at this town and that what prompted these kinds of bylaws to emerge in the same way as you know Milan has articulated earlier. So, um, here too, I think we would probably need, you know, I guess a subcommittee to figure out the information and speak with the folks in the town um to see uh how we can get to the bottom of this and how there could be relief uh if there are any harms involving, you know, human rights to these various tenants. I'll be on that subcommittee. >> Oh, then I'll join you on that one. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Good. Anyway, I like hanging out with you. So, so here we go. Okay. So, that is not a can kick down the road, but we're certainly going to look further into it. Uh the next aspect that we're going to look at is the response to public participation. investigation to domestic and foreign human rights violation by the United States in IC and um I think this was one of the issues that Milan was trying to bring closure to some kind of way wasn't it? Um I don't think specifically me if uh unless I'm forgetting something but um Rswan uh >> I'd like to add to the fact that we we have already gone over the complaints that we have some limitations we can uh the commission can receive concerns make referrals you know and education and serve as a forum and make but we do not have subina power. All right. So that is for the complaints. But uh when we are talking about the victims and the fact that uh we are going to be who's being harmed uh there is this narrative this human rights we can say incident tracking and community impact protocol we can work on as a on that as a protocol who is being impacted that is under our jurisdiction. So it is basically the purpose would be to create a consistent institutional record of human rights concerns. So if we are able to do that that'll be great. So there will be three four angles to it. The institutional record and identify patterns of harm and ensure appropriate referral and followup and inform the HRC's policy recommendations. So basically we an oversight committee who's just doing these uh uh you know um things like you know three or four uh creations that will be uh converting basically the commission into a police without we cannot convert this commission into police investigative body. That is the bottom line. we can just create some kind of a you know record impact protocol that is basically human rights incident tracking and community impact protocol because we I don't think we can become the police investigative body because why because of the fact that you know why am I why am I saying that is because it prevents the HRC from overstepping our authority So for example, if racist graffiti appears in a park, the HRC shouldn't independently determine this person committed a you know what kind of a crime. So we are basically looking at the police uh and how are they investigating and HRC director will handle the HRC complaints that is different and but we just document them. we the concerns. It should be like an overall thing for us to document the community human rights concerns, listen, identify patterns, make referrals and recommendations and that's it. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Okay. >> If I've understood correctly, the proposal regarding um the IC was to create public dialogue and potentially then issue statements as a commission um where we um have found or understand that the US government has um engaged in criminal conduct. And I think that that's that's a worthy um idea if we have the capacity to do it. I think that that is within um our you know not unlike the town council issuing a resolution you know in favor of a ceasefire for example. So I think that that is if we have the capacity to do to do something like that um I think it's an interesting idea and potentially good use of this body. Um and also you know we're a small group with a lot of things that we want to work on. >> Yes. I mean, one of the things that um that we can find uh in our new bylaws with the HRC is that, you know, some of uh our proposals and our statements can be moved to the town council and we hope that they can adopt it as part of the town platform as well. So, there is that way of doing it. So anything involving including I mean international issues and we have dealt with international issues here before including you know visa statuses and all of those kinds of things but to have the town say that makes the voice a little louder especially if a school like UMass wishes to hear it or Amos College needs to hear that that the town as a college town needs to hear that. So, you know, our voice is not as loud as the town council's voice, but we can be quite vocal in that. And I think working with the town council, you know, may be a way to um I think amplify those kinds of statements. So, should we >> what kind of motion you're making? Are you trying making a motion about something? Um well I guess I was thinking I mean it's not even a motion because I mean the statement if if it is a motion about working with the town council and trying to have them adopt anything we write it's already in the bylaw so we don't have to have a motion on that. >> So basically nothing happened right now. Well, it means that where we didn't you do that in the past with the new bylaws, we can use the power to do that. >> Yeah, I can make a motion. >> Okay, I will I will make a motion to develop a human rights incident tracking and community impact protocol. So I move that the human rights Ammerst human rights commission direct its chair in consultation with human rights director appropriate town staff to develop a proposed human rights basically that's all motion to develop a human rights incident tracking and community impact protocol. Uh okay. Query uh is this duplication of any work that's already done via DEI? HRC basically will be maintaining a database of victims and perpetrators and is much safer and more consistent with our advisory and reporting function. And then what would be the purpose of that? >> Basically first it that it creates a trace an incident doesn't disappear simply because the graffiti is removed and the or the police report is closed. Second it protects the HRC boundaries by existing um you know charge includes education. and we reviewing we advising the clown it comes into that also we are inside that boundary that we are supposed to stay in third it protects the person who was harmed so the commission doesn't decide for them who the victim is or force them to tell their story publicly so basically we are just not saying uh that we should investigate all the um hate incidents in uh we're just saying we're just going to track them. We just create some kind of a record of that. >> I mean, are we not doing that, you know, by default anyway? Because each time we, you know, discuss that, isn't that in our minutes? And we therefore have a record. So why do you need a separate database? But we do not have a record because of the fact we do not know anything about UMass what happened and we do not know right now what is the impact on the community and how it is playing out. >> Well well I think right now we are you know still in process in trying to figure out what is going on and we have subcommittees working on that. So why not let the subcommittees do the work and then we'll report back as opposed to starting out a new database um you know giving ourselves more work when we already have the subcommittees who will report to the commission itself and then we'll have a statement or some actionable thing that emerges out of that. >> Yeah. Basically what I am trying to say is that we should have a a standardized uh incident tracking protocol where we can see you know there are forms there we investigate in a proper fashion as the subcommittees are saying they're doing it. Yeah I'm still at a loss as to where this is you know going. what is the you know rationale what's the uh you know process and you know how does it relate to IC and everything else >> it is basically it is actually if you >> okay it is just like for example you have a document you right now we are just saying a narrative right you're saying oh this happened this happen when we have a document. We put all the documented facts, the reported experiences and our observations in a statement and then we can present it as a proposal. That is what you were saying also. Then we go to the town council and say when they they're not going to just look into our minutes and say, "Oh, this is what you said." So if we have a proper uh you know documented flags and all these you know report they will listen to us. >> Okay. If yeah if we are going to present them the minutes it is just like a repeat of what we've been doing forever. So this is more like documentation forms feedbacks and proactive work. Rizswana are you saying do you have the capacity to create the prototype of the tracking system that you're proposing because we started this meeting with the same thing that we will investigate we go you if you think about it we step out we go to the how are we going to talk to the chief king or we'll have to actually go in person and then we will ask him what happened and he will tell us just the minimum report. Then if we want to know so and your whole uh slide you know presentation was also about uh the victims are being harmed who is being harmed. So this is an impact that is we can just put that impact in a paragraph and say oh these people are being harmed or this uh a community is being harmed. >> Yes sus. >> Um thanks for bringing up those points. Uh I guess two points of clarification and just like in terms of uh keeping things moving forward. Um I'm wondering uh as well potentially RZA if you would be willing to create the um the draft of what that would look like to bring to the upcoming uh human rights commission meeting so that way we have some more clarity in your process and rationale as I think Jay has mentioned and and then specifically for this point um about our response uh I personally don't have capacity um to work on this issue in addition to the other subcommittees. Um so that would be my perspective although I I think that it's certainly something you know others wish to pursue at this point. Um but that is uh my perspective on this piece. So then so I guess that was simply resolving that you know resolve wana will you know look into the format into the uh structure of that you know what it might look at and then submit that as an >> I guess a readable file for us to you know to look at so that we can see uh if this is something we wish to engage with. Yes. >> Okay. Yes. The protocol template. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> So, so we'll just move on to the next thing. Um establish standing committees. I mean this is the you know outreach thing that I had started off two meetings ago was trying to build an infrastructure for us to work with um both at the local levels with all the local folks that we could find and then you know stepping that you know building a pathway up to uh to the state government and conceivably even to the federal government because once we have that kind of an infrastructure these local issues which could become national issues and global issues. We'll have a way to uh find the personnel with whom we could work and contact and that includes locally here like with the Mind Dome and Joe Commer and then other folks over here and then finding out who the attorney general is speaking you know you know building relationships there the governor's office etc. So that was you know what we started out. So that's the you know outreach aspect of it. I wanted to form a committee since I started on it and I had been working on that with Silus. Um I thought maybe you know both of us could be involved in that you know outreach campaign. If somebody else wishes to do it that's also fine by me. I'm interested in doing the organizational one, the uh second, but if we're still on the first subcommittee. >> Yeah, I was kidding. >> I have a question about how we're defining outreach. Um I'm interested in um uh creating um a regular communication by this body in a local outlet, whether it's the Ammeris Indie or um Gazette or another outlet. um and seeing um yeah. So is that is that falling under in other words um being more proactive about communicating with the public about issues that we're working on but also statements about human rights issues um broadly. >> Yes. Exactly right. Yes. Uh so I guess fortifying uh all of our resources locally would be one aspect that would include Indie you know the gazette anybody else but it could also include groups like you know Amnesty intern Amistnesty International any other groups that may be of interest to us as we need um but then building up uh from that foundation upward because we've had laws passed for example like the prot protect Act and there are very real implications for the town uh real implications involving human rights how they can be protected uh from ICE things like that. So, you know, inviting somebody uh to our meeting to deconstruct what is in the project act, what are our rights, you know, inviting, you know, people maybe like even chief ting, you know, to question him about uh what are his protocols, his way of dealing with the new protect act. Those are the ways that we can engage various parts of the community and that includes um you know our liaison as well. Um you know what's her stand uh with the you know town council and so you know initiating conversations these are not hearings but really conversations with local people who could be invited to the meeting and we chat with them you know for 10 minutes or what have you. That's you know something that I wish to introduce here as part of our practice to say you know so that they know who we are and that when we deal with them then they know you know that there is um the uh you know brevity of the I guess HRC you know behind that. Yeah, I think the subcommittee can be uh get creative with different outreach uh different ways to do outreach. Um I guess at this point we could just form see who is interested in being on the standing committee. It's >> Yeah, I'm you know I mean unfortunately we can't go more than two. I I can work on the state stuff and even the federal stuff on my own and forward that to you guys. But if somebody else wants to do some other aspect like the local things or >> Silus, you had a question. >> Oh, no. Go ahead. >> Okay. No, I didn't have anything to say. I just >> Are we assigning to outreach as one subcommittee and relationships with organizations and government officials as another or we I'm confused about what what we're where we are >> I think I mean uh I mean currently I think that we're breaking it up because it's going to be too much uh that if we you know broke this up into little bits that those who are dealing with the local groups let's say you know the newspapers um you know Amos international or what have you form some you know some kind of a consortium and a working relationship to chat with these folks and then get the work that we do also to these outlets including you know Ammerst media you know where Milan works. Uh I think it can be I think fruitful to have our voices be heard in a more um you know louder way um and then the town will get to know that we are indeed addressing the issues that are of concern to them. So, so of course that's the local part and then this the other part that I initiated already involving the state but there too I could I could work with maybe Milan to try to reach the attorney general's office and some and the governor's office and some other folks there but if you know if we want to form like a local committee get two people there and get two people to deal with you know beyond the town that's that's fine too >> I think also uh outreach is uh just in terms of getting messaging and letting people know that we are here and what we uh do um is uh one avenue and then partnerships with uh local organizations and uh more of um yeah I guess uh just organizations and institutions uh would be like another a different avenue. Um they both involve you know getting uh building connections but one is more of a institutional type of building partnerships and the other one is more of uh a messaging of let's uh let the let people know what we do and that we're here. >> Yes. Mate, did you uh you know have a question earlier? I I wasn't sure where we were, but I'm um happy to be on the outreach subcommittee. >> Okay. So, do you want to do the local ones like >> Yeah, was the first one? >> Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. So let's say Silus, are you going to, you know, join up with, you know, with the local one or >> Well, I was trying to understand how things were going to fall in terms of, uh, number because we can only have three on each. Um, I'm happy to do either. >> Okay. >> But I I would like to be involved in in one. >> Okay. I yeah I think if if we're going three then you know all that stuff that you found like from you know Wayne County like Pennsylvania and all these places you know all that information that you found for me silus that would be you know really useful I think I think it could help out the town it could help out the police department it could help out human rights with all the all your research that you did there and then and then taking it further with Milan to reach out to the attorney general's office and to the senators and all the other folks. We can do that stuff as well and then put that together into one package and to say okay this is our outreach these are our you know point people in the various places. >> Wait I feel like things are getting a little uh misconstrued. Um the outreach was about more of a messaging while the partnerships was more for uh other things like the attorney general's office or like more of the institutional type of levels or other organizations like uh Ammeris media ammer survival center things like that um um versus um the outreach side of uh just getting messaging out. I think crossing those two over will make it quite confusing. uh if we look at it in terms of local and uh not local. >> Yeah, I I think you're right. I think let's use the word networking which is one and then let's use the word outreach which is the other part. >> That works. >> How about communications for what you've just referred to as outreach? Because out outreach and networking are quite similar. Um >> yeah. Okay. >> I I'm just I'm feeling confused. >> Yeah, we could go with uh communications and messaging because that's uh it sounds clear enough. Anyone else? >> So, I volunteer to be >> okay. Um I'm just trying to seek clarity again which one would I be falling under. I'm really just happy to support on either of these efforts in terms of research and um helping to lead in that regard. So what what committee is it the partnerships subcommittee? Is that is what it was sounding like or >> um yeah the one that we're talking about right now is basic is uh instead of outreach would be uh communications. So um just messaging if uh you were interested in more of uh institution and organizational um partnerships then that would be the second one. >> Okay. And Jay, which do you want to be a part of? because then it seems like they're >> I think I wish to be a part of the strategic networking uh aspect that you know contacts people like you know Kafford you know Mindy other people um maybe even reaching out to you know other human rights organizations in Massachusetts trying to find out what they are doing building, you know, networking in that partnership, partnerships, across, you know, across the district, from town to town, etc. That kind of a thing. And then the other part is, you know, messaging. And here we have Matia who is you know a writer and she would be our best person probably to do you know to write up the stuff for you know I guess Ammerst Indie and you know I guess I'm volunteering but know she's our guess best writer here maybe. So >> yeah she's already volunteered for that one. Um, do we have a second volunteer for the communications one or is it still not clear? >> Okay. So far we uh have Matia, right? >> The I guess communications part, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. I could join her on that one if you want. >> Okay. >> Right. That there. So and then and then the other part involving >> the partnership >> working other aspects beyond the town been working with silus on that but if you want to group that into three I'm happy to have you know Milan join our forces there. >> Uh yeah I was going to volunteer but >> to have you glad to have you. >> Okay. Okay. Great. So yeah thanks. Sorry, this took me so long to wrap my head around. Um, yeah, I'm I'm happy to join partnerships and continue supporting that. Sweet. >> Okay, so communications I have Matia and Jay and partnerships I have me and Silas. >> Okay. And Okay. So, we've also covered relationships and government officials, right? Are there any outstanding old business that we wish to deal with? anything? No. Then I'm moving on. Topics not anticipated by the chair 48 hours in advance. Um I have nothing. You know, does anybody wish to bring anything to our attention? No. Very good. Uh then if that is all I have a motion to adjurnn. >> Second. >> Second and that meeting is over. Milan will >> we have to take a roll call. We have to take a roll call vote. >> Yes. Roll call. >> Silus. >> Present or Yes. Sorry. >> Uh can I actually just a point of order. Do do we typically offer a DEI update um or are we not including that moving forward >> that >> did we >> we do normally do one and it is not on the agenda. >> It was not on the agenda. was in the packet. >> But if >> but if Philip wishes to or then I have to un I mean how do you do that? Um >> everybody says >> I I don't have anything to add significantly. If you all saw the update, that's good enough. >> Okay, that's helpful. I just wanted to check in about that because I don't >> appreciate that. >> Okay, good. Okay, move to John. Uh, we just keep going through the vote after Silus. >> Guess >> Milan, >> yes. >> Matia, >> yes. >> Yes. >> Jay, yes. And with that, >> meeting is adjourned and Milan will chair the next one. >> Yes. >> Perfect. And Jay, can you just state the time? The time is 7:18 p.m. >> Right. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you. Bye-bye. Have a good night. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Good night.