Human at the Core: Leading, Building and Thriving in the Age of AI - Tech Leadership Circle

I guess I can I can get started. So, first of all, a very warm welcome to Senica Singapore. Thank you for taking the time to tune in this evening, right? Um so the topic that I have today is uh human at the core, right? But I'll be touching on three different themes. Um but they are disperate but somewhat yet connected. So um we can see it towards the end, right? So first of all, I'll be talking about leadership qualities that I believe are here to stay regardless of how AI advances. And then um the next thing that I will touch on is product thinking as a mindset. Um yes. And then um and we can also see that um how the practices are accelerated by AI as well as um last but not least um how do we drive as an individual in the age of AI because I do hear from people that um they're fearful of how AI is advancing so fast but I think just now when I was getting ready here everyone in the room was talking about which model is better than which model. I think you're the you are the you are the expert right? So um but yes so then um but again I guess um it's coming back to what are some of the underlying principles that I believe will endure um over time right so um I will start by laying some context and here um is um like what Michael um uh um said right and thank you for the invitation um is is that um I don't um I need to tell you about my journey and in order for that I need to start laying some context and here I don't mean to be boastful but it's just that I need to frame the perspectives of what I will be sharing in the subsequent slides in terms of lesson learned. So then um ever since I started working I've always uh okay I've been right I need to be a bit more uh uh I've been complimented on my delivery um which also means that I hold myself to a certain um level of standard um and I can so um that will be the first one right and then um I can also break things down quite easily. I structure things um quite well and um that will also mean that my communication skill is not too bad right and um after that the last but not least is I'm quite vocal as a person uh you probably don't like me as a person if you need to work with me in a cross collaboration setting right um and um because I'm pretty vocal right um and I uh and I'm generally quite confident or shall I say I'm thick skinned enough where I have no qualms to voice my opinions right so with this combination of character you can probably see how I was in 2018 whereby when I was in my younger days um I get frustrated really easily when other people cannot perform as I can um and also so I share a little bit of my experience here I was once in a role supporting a global team and um As part of the team, I needed to perform checks um for a data pipeline that fed data from one process to another. Um typical operational kind of um data processes, right? Um but the thing is uh because we were uh we didn't develop the pipeline very well. So there were a lot of checks that need to be done manually and it was pretty tedious but very doable. So um as I got familiarized and I set up the processes all good and then um a new person joined in and I needed to lead another project. So this person need to take over from me. But the thing is um this person this new person he could not he could not carry out the task um despite like I already provided a step-by-step kind of instruction for for him to follow and needless to say I did not get along well with him. Right? So this was back in 2018. And also um um as the year as as I grew older um two years later, right? Um what what I really learned is also that um this phrase like ultimately we are just here for the paycheck. Someone wise actually told me this. Why? Because I can get frustrated really easily because I am um I am an idealistic person, right? I want things to be perfect but when things are not ideal for example when I have a manager who's not looking after his people or when there's something unfair they um that is unfolded um at the workplace um I would get really upset and don't forget I'm vocal so I will make noise but the thing is I surface problems without any solutions and um until someone wise actually shared this uh with me and I kept my mouth shut after that but uh of was am I am I was I happy? Um I was only forced to continue the work and then I just stopped making noise and I continue um I quietly continued my job search right. So then came uh 2023 uh when um I was with Senica for I think after a couple of years and then I was offered the opportunity to become a team manager here and back then I thought who would reject a promotion right but the thing is um so so so then um I jumped at the opportunity um but it turned out to be a game changer for me all right so what is my game changer here um I was actually taught how to become a manager here at Zenica. Um and it was a very well-curated development plan that was put together and um it allowed me and other team leads um to be trained on the job for over six months and um after six um so how curated that development plan was that um it covered everything from um the art of conducting meaningful oneto ones right we do this every month with our team members um and um and to interviewing ing candidates for cultural fit. So we get involved in um the the recruitment process um to setting goals and uh reviewing performance for the individual team member on a yearly basis. Um and what was really helpful was that um before I was being appointed as the team uh the team lead the team members they were actually consulted if they are willing to have me as a manager and um and so um with that six months of on the job training um having um as in knowing that um it's not just um so I didn't select the team members but I was actually selected by the team members in a way right? Cuz they okay for me to become their team manager. So that um actually boosted my confidence and motivation um to give my best during the six months and after six months voila I successfully assumed the role as a team manager. Yes. So um as part of the as part of the um becoming a team lead in Zenica we are also very fortunate to have engagement with a career coach and um this career coach um has helped me a lot a lot. Yeah, because I was really pretty um pretty um how shall I say how shall I describe my past self um pretty um full of myself and I wasn't able to understand and also help right but when I had the motivation to want to help and um with a coach um it was like seeing a psychologist yeah um um pretty much that but it's just um for work related problems so I would tell um the coach the problems that I was dealing with both personally as well as um for um um with work right at work and um what I learned in return are truly invaluable. So um I only wish I had known them sooner because it would have made me a better um person in my younger years. Yeah. So I would like to take this opportunity to share these insights with all of you today. And let's get started with lesson number one. Build trust and delegate. Right. So um let's have a read through this scenario right um yeah this I think you see a lot of memes with this uh photo right so then um in any kind of project you would have a senior person and a junior person minimally right and um so this they have to work on a data project so my background is in data analytics so hence I quoted this um um predictive analytics uh project and um here the idea is that Um the senior would usually guide the junior how to do the work. But the key thing is that the groundwork or every little detail is typically done by the junior by the junior person, right? They they're like your hands and leg. You just have to be the commander and tell them what to do. Yeah. And uh you probably do a checkin as a senior person with the junior, right? So then um and for any uh for any kind of projects you typically have your management uh update that you need to provide right. So when it comes to pro um presenting the project progress to the senior leadership uh who do you think should present >> the senior right sorry can you be louder? Yes. Depends. >> It depends. And then um the junior. Okay. All right. So I'll tell you um about hang on. Ah so the ideal outcome that we want to go for is that the junior person will take the stage but the senior person will be there to address any questions that the junior cannot handle. There will definitely be questions that the junior cannot handle. Right? But the thing is in order to achieve this ideal outcome, there's a lot of preparation that needs the senior to actually um guide the junior on. Yeah. So let's go to um let's refer to the person on the right, which is the senior, right? The Nstein, right? Um what what does the senior need to to to do, right? Um first of all um he needs to um direct and guide the work right and this is also um even before um before the presentation come about right is during the work itself um and then um but and then um the the second pointer is for the senior very importantly because the senior should know how to present it right because it's not the first time of him meeting the senior leadership so he already know what kind of questions that can be anticipated. He needs to teach the junior how to how to present as well as um encourage because for everyone who is presenting for the first time um they may have stage fright right this is not the first time for me I still have stage fright right and um what would be really helpful is that do dry runs and that's why um I I'm saying that there's a lot of effort from the senior person right because you want to be able to guide and you want to make the junior person shine But what does it mean for you as a person, right? You um of course no one wants to lose out, right? And um there is something bigger for the senior person. Yeah. So I'll share that in a while, right? As for the junior member who is being um lucky enough to find someone who is willing to guide, right? Um all he has to do is to present it to the best of his ability, right? So that he doesn't disappoint the guidance that he receives. Okay? And so coming back to what does this mean for the senior person right um it is a very deliberate effort to build capability and then but the thing is we want to delegate it to um is this mindset that we need to have as seniors whereby if we delegate and we grow um um and develop another person so that if your work can be done by that person you can do something even higher right hopefully right and The thing is how um and um for the for the younger for the junior member right um they will find that oh actually by joining this team by working with this senior I do have things that I can learn from this senior person right he can um actually have new skill sets to acquire he can also relief the senior um of so that the senior can do higher level responsibilities and um if you think of it like a ripple effect the junior once he acquired this skill set he can then actually um pay it forward and uh and train other juniors right so I do say that it is a very ideal outcome right and then the next question to answer is what is in it for that senior person for you to take the very first step to be willing to guide right it's because and don't forget you also have your own performance review right so this is the time where you have to um to to to so-called um for a lack of a better word, right? It's um to to to gain to gain um [laughter] to to redeem to redeem um the credibility or rather um during your performance review. It's time for you to shine and to tell your manager that actually you do you do um you do have some um a different kind of achievement whereby um you are able to coach and empower other people. Yeah. So I think this is for every individual. We need to when it comes to performance review, we want to be able to um illustrate or describe our accomplishments, how we value at right rather than just covering what have you done, right? >> Yeah. So then um I think uh if we were to have one senior that's like that is great. If we were to have more senior and we we we cultivate a c um such a culture, right? Then um the multiplier effect will just drive the whole team forward. Yeah. Yes. All good. Yeah. Um any objections? I probably don't I shouldn't ask this at this point in time. Yeah. But anyway, [laughter] lesson number two, right? Um high support, high challenge. Right. So um I'm sure I'm sure you have um you have worked with such a person before right whereby no matter how much you try to guide that person somehow this person just struggle to fulfill your expectation. Yes. So um how would you handle it? Yeah. Do you provide more support like just keep guiding or um you would choose to give up on that person? Right. >> [clears throat] >> So um here there is um um lesson number two for me was that um we need to reach this sweet spot which is really a concept that is new for me um like my younger self I used to be quite uh I I'm still demanding right but um at the same time I'm less critical now yeah because I know that um there are ways for me to see how should I provide help versus um the other way around right. Um so um this quadrant if we were to split it into four the first one here is that low support low challenge right the matrix is um challenge low to high support on the y-axis um low to high and the very first quadrant is when you give up on that person and you offer no help but just imagine um the effect on that person itself right is that um there is the his moral is low and he just choose to and he will not choose to uh or rather he will not have the motivation to improve himself. Right? The second quadrant right is um high support and high and low challenge which is the top um the top left here right. So um if you are a kind person like this right but the thing is uh can you will you ever be tired of being of trying to keep helping and there's only so much help that you can extend actually. So um but the key thing is what is the impact on the person that you're trying to help right the person will just grow um to be dependent on you on your help and um again will the person improve or not yeah maybe yes maybe no but I think it's probably pretty minimal yeah so the third one is low support and high challenge the quadrant that is on the bottom right yeah where this is really bad right this is bad culture if you are constantly scolding the underperformer and also um I mean who likes to be scolded or reprimanded and ultimately that person is just going to leave and the thing is the impact on the person is that will that person improve neither right um so the sweet spot is really high support high challenge and um this um the impact on the person that is receiving um help right is that um this person is very likely to improve over time. Yeah, I tried it myself and it worked. Yeah, it really worked. Yeah. So, um let's draw an analogy, right? The greenhouse here on the left uh it give um the greenhouse gives the plants uh warmth and protection. But the thing is there is no wind, there is no struggle and again um there is like no real growth for the plants. The plants will just grow as like how you how you form it. Yeah. But every individual is different, right? Do we really want it? Not all of us as in we are not robots, right? Okay. So on the right on the right we have an open field whereby um this is like the the opposite whereby you just throw everything at them, right? Um they have there's sun, storm, drought um and there's nothing to support survival. So we can see that actually there's probably no flowers growing from that big field, right? It's just grass that can withstand such um um hardship. So if you're a gardener, what kind of gardener do you want to be? Right? You would probably want to create the right condition for um and just introduce um and introduce just enough um stress to trigger growth. And that's um that's like the sweet spot of high support and high challenge. So then there's a framework. Yeah, there's a framework. Um and the first step is really to call it out to have an open and honest discussion and it really starts from you as the senior person, right? whereby um um like you probably notice some kind of underperforming qualities from that person and um you want to pull him aside and actually say that oh actually also something about it um let's talk about it right so I think uh the key thing is for the senior person to actually take the initiative to extend help right and then the next thing is um we want to be able to diagnose it whether Is it a skill ski um a skill gap problem or is it a motivational kind of problem? Yeah. So um there are typically I think there are these two um two categories whereby if it's a skill gap problem whereby that person um is you know that um there is lack of certain knowledge experience or clarity then the next intervention is for you to be able to raise the support first as someone that is has walked through um their experience right you are able to know what is expected And you can clarify that and it's important for you to be able to clarify it um precisely. And the next thing is um people need examples to work with, right? So um always coach um by giving examples. And again the next thing is something that will require your time and effort as well whereby you need to be able to provide uh feedback to that person um quite quickly, right? And then uh we want to be able to tell that person that this is the kind of standard that I want to hold you up to. Yeah. And that's going back to like clarify um clarifying the expectations. So the thing is that we want to be able to give concrete and we want to be able to um size the um achievable win for that person and um which is is something that is more um it's slightly above what they are feeling, right? And also you want to be able to give them um a very tight uh feedback loop. Yeah. And then so I think the easier one is really the um the thing that is the skill gap that is on the left. And then we also have the wheel gap whereby it is motivational problem. Yeah. It could be that the candidate is not a good fit right in the project that they are doing. it it it um it doesn't spark any joy for that person or that person is um undergoing confidence issue. Yeah. Um I I do see um developers that are with after a few good years of experience they start to doubt themsel like what am I doing? I think I'm not too bad but at the same time I'm also not too good and I really don't know what I should be doing. So um I I had such conversations before right. So then um the next thing is that um if it's a motivation thing then I think um it's really important for the senior to be um to be uh describing um what is really the expectation that this job role require and I'm sorry right if I still don't see such um performance like meeting the expectation that this job role should have by a certain period of time then it's probably game over. Yeah. because um and and also um to find out what is uh what is motivating that person right and if we already know there is not a good fit can we actually explore other opportunities for that person that may be more suited for he uh for that for that person itself. Yeah. All right. So then um but um is there uh so again like high support high challenge although is it it is a sweet spot but it shouldn't be a permanent lifeline because um everything needs to be um the intervention that we provide we cannot keep providing it we cannot keep adjusting. So it must be time bound and the results you have to monitor it and that's what we mean by the title feedback loop right because you need to be um actively coaching that person monitoring their results and then uh we want to time bound it so that we know by uh so that yes uh we know that if by this time and agreed timeline if things still don't work out that means it's just not not meant to be right. Okay. Uh all right. All good with lesson number two. So then lesson number three, right? Unconditional positive regard. This is quite a um a mouthful, right? But what it really means is um I'm quite sure we have come across this kind of people as colleagues, right? They never fail to agitate or frustrate us, right? And um ideally uh you should have really good EQ, right? Keep a cool head and remain friendly with that person. I don't know about you, I definitely cannot do it. Yes. So I'm like the mircat here, right? Um yes. Yes. Um yeah. Um so so then um uh and that I would think that this is more of a natural reaction, but of course we need to know that we cannot cross the limit, right? Um and um for me, I would choose to avoid working with this person no matter what. Yeah. I'm the kind of person that will tell my boss, uh you want to you want me to be part of this project is fine, but I really cannot work with this person. Yeah. So the condition for me to be in is for that person to be out. Yeah. So then um but is this a good thing? Um actually no. Right. Yeah. Yes. >> And um and also um the the concept of unconditional positive regard is really to come to this um mindset or rather this thought process that have you ever wondered why this person behaves the way they do? Why do they frustrate you so much? Right? So I think um being able to step back and think about it is the art or the lesson learned here. Right? So um um unconditional positive regard is the way to manage this scenario. But it can be broken down into four steps right. Number one is having the awareness right when this person is driving you nuts. First of all the awareness have to come uh come to you that ah I am getting angry. Yes. Right. Then the next thing is um while you are getting angry yeah it's a lot to process. It's not that you can stop being angry. Speaking from my own personal experience here, right? Um, we want to be able to quickly think of something funny um and transform the anger into humor. It's really hard. Yes. And the next thing the next thing is um we want to be curious. Remember, we want to be able to take a step back and think about why this person is behaving this way, right? And if we are able to be curious then we are able to be compassionate whereby if we think of the why then perhaps um this person may need another kind of help that we may be able to um to lend in some ways or another we can direct that person for to another person um that can better help this person right so um this will be the thought process um the coach taught me this I I've only practiced it once. [laughter] Um but but to be honest, the magic worked. It was it was um um the key thing is um the reasons why I chose these uh three lessons to share is because I only need to try it once and the magic works. Yeah. For someone as um as um stubborn as I am. Yes. So um that's why I find it really helpful. And let's walk through um a comic strip, right? To illustrate the four steps. So I ever had this um conflict with a colleague um and he um he he no matter what we talk about, right, it's not that I want to talk to him as well, but it's just that he's always so rude and so disrespectful. And that really drives me nuts because um I yeah, respect is a very big thing for me. Values, principles, right? So um I I cannot help but to feel very angry when I need to talk to this person. So it's like um think of me as the tree, right? And the rude colleague is the dog that that keeps barking at the tree for what, right? So the first turning point was to become aware of this angle like the tree is really getting angry, right? And I need to transform it into something amusing. Um this is really what the coach um we spent like one and a half hours going through this and when he asked me to reimagine this into something funny I had such a hard time. Yeah. So um I he said just imagine something and that's how the the bucking dog and the tree analogy came about. Right. So then what would be really funny is that if I'm the tree I have I can extend my hand and slap the dog across and the the dog will just fly away. I think that is something funny for me. Yeah. So, um yes, it was it I could laugh. Um when I was talking I was telling um my coach about the the story, I was still uh feeling anger in me. Um but as soon as I was able to change to find to to picture this in mind, I I could I could laugh again. And then um so I would imagine giving him a good whack, right? And then um I realize that I started to grow calmer. And when I am calmer, I can take a step back and then I can think like why does he react this way? Um could he be like some could he be under some immense pressure? Um is he going through a hard time? And um and for this dog, right, if he's barking so fiercely, maybe he's hungry, right? We don't we don't know. So this is where we can practice unconditional positive regard by giving him the benefit of doubt. Yeah. And last but not least, I can imagine what um a good outcome might look like. Um so I can think to myself like if only he hadn't bucked so furiously and instead of coming to me for food which I obviously cannot give as a tree then but what I can do is when it rain I can actually shelter this this poor dog right so that's like um by and with this I'll be more willing to lend a helping hand to this um ridiculous person yeah so then um I actually asked my coach is um is it even possible for us to apply the framework in that split second? Um because when I'm feeling angry, I really cannot think about something funny, right? Um and he told me yes um it it's like doing gym, you have to keep um training it. You have to train the muscle for this. And um and I asked him then how to train or rather he asked me then then I was thinking oh I can only train by keep talking to the same person right then. Yeah then then he said yes and guess how often he wants me to do it >> daily. >> Huh? >> Daily. >> Daily. Oh no. Daily is too much man. I cannot take him. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Every week. Yes. He he he actually uh recommended every week but I told him I can't because I'm also a consultant myself and um I don't have that much time. So we resorted to once a month. Um so what happened was that I took the initiative to um have a conversation with this person and it only took one conversation 30 minutes. At the end of the 30 minutes, we were both sharing about our families and we were both laughing at each other and we were both laughing at how we are pretty similar but we just uh step on each other's toes quite easily because of how similar we are. Yeah. So it's actually quite funny. Yeah. I I actually find that huh he or he is of the same um zodiac as me and that answers a few questions like why is he this way? Yeah. And it also made me reflect maybe I was like that too. Yes. But um because he's someone he's someone more senior uh he is definitely older. So um towards the end he also told me that actually Jolene you should be quite proud of yourself because um when I was your age I didn't do this. Yeah. Yes. So which I find it quite um quite okay. Yes. All right. So um those are all about leadership qualities lesson one, two and three. Um next we'll go into product thinking right. So how many of us here are involved in um building software products? I guess every one of us right yeah and um the thing is um I will ask this question how are you building now? Yeah. So again, don't forget that I am I am an idealistic, right? Um idealist, right? Uh and um what I will be telling you next is more of a mindset shift that I uh I'm I am just shameless to talk about, right? Um so the first element is who decide what to build, right? Yeah, I guess from from the response, right, I can probably tell that most of you are on the left. Yeah. Is anyone from the right? Oh, that's good. Very good. Very good. Right. So, um the difference between the left and the right is that on the left someone's um or I hear this phrase a lot, right? Why do you do things this way or why do you even build this? Why do you even ask for a dashboard when you don't even know your data sources yet? Right? That person will always tell the response that I always hear is because my boss said so. Yes. Again, I feel like wacking him. You know that dog that fly away. So um so this is what we mean by um senior or rather the management will decide what to build. And I think this is quite a common thing um to see. Um on the right the difference is that you have a team a team of what? A team of product manager um UIUX designer as well as um a developer right typically this is um a tech lead or a de um or a de uh or a developer with with a higher level of business acument. Yes, we need these um three people to form a product trio and um they will they will get into the discovery process right from the start and later on we'll talk about the discovery process right and um the key thing is um the um this tree um profile or this product trio um they have very important thing that they need to build they have to that means uh or rather they have very important KPI to meet which is they need to bring in evidence. What kind of evidence um is the um is the c um is the evidence that they will build when they have very close customer contact and we'll talk about that later in a little um in a little while. All right. So next is um the next element is um how long um um do um is the planning horizon for your products. Right? If um the one on the left is you keep hearing road map road map road map yes milestones road map never ending right everything is already pre-planned if it's a two years project you already know what you can expect in that two years is cast in stone uh if you want to change it it's really difficult right and most of the time the um the development team will just go in go all the way in and build stuff right but when we release it who is using the feature h nobody knows yeah and typically I I'm in such a team as well uh and then um the one on the right is that um the planning horizons it's not that we don't plan right planning is always needed um it's just that um it is it is not locked in in such um a long horizon it is shorter horizons and the thing is you will need to repivot as and when you have new evidence um that comes in and this is by design and your evidence is always um something that is proven that you need to prove with your um with your customers, right? Or your end users. Next, how is um how how decisions are are made, right? If you always have sign off, sign off and consensus, you always hear that, oh, we need the buy in before we can continue, right? The thing is um if you are a product trio team you need to be empowered because you need to be drive you you need to be the ones driving the results. Um and and um the thing is for them uh it is uh remember I talk about evidence is u why we need evidence is because when we think of somewhat of a solution there's always assumptions and the the purpose of the product trio is really to validate your assumptions before a single line of code is written right yeah um yes um and the thing is uh we want to be able to test them very cheaply and that with Gen AI now there's there's so many ways that we can go about this right this um this landscape has just been accelerated by AI a lot a lot right um the next thing is how is success defined right on the left you always be ah so long as this project is on time on budget on spec that means we are successful ah but the thing is if you ask about the customer impact it's either is not being measured or it is always an afterthought, right? Um but for the teams, for the product trio on the right, it will always be h when we launch this uh did we um did we change any behavior um did the success matrix that we have defined right from the start um did we actually move the needle? Yeah. So um and when I say empowered teams is because the teams they are accountable for the results and therefore if you are being accountable for something and you are a highly motivated person you probably you probably want to showcase the results as well right so that's why um you are accountable for the results and the customer impact it is measured almost immediately at launch um and the team structure right um if you are in a product um development team um very typically uh we say that we are cross functional but it's still functional silos what I mean by that is that you have the business define it right the design will design it and then you will hand off to the engineering team to build it so it's still actually very clearcut hand off right um but if it's on the right the empowered team they are really crossf functional whereby um the outcome come or rather the results right that we have here um they are owned by the three people the product management team the designer team as well as the engineering team yeah so although they don't report to each other yes right um and last but not least um is the speed of learning right if you are if you belong to the um how you build uh style on the left. Um typically um people will ask you oh when can I have this feature and you'll hear probably like ah six weeks I don't know if six weeks is quick enough or is that slow but um the management will typically say that ah this is too slow I need it sooner right but the thing is uh uh there there will be mistakes right at launch and also um um or rather you will only find out that oh actually this flow didn't work after it has been launched for subst substantially long time and um the key thing is that this is very expensive to reverse because it's already in pro right people have already used it the user experience is already bad to begin with right but um if you operate um in the team on the right um you'll be delivering very quickly um because you will be um through the close customer contact you will just learn about them very quickly and then you can validate very quickly. Uh and you can design your uh through designing quick experiments and you get your feedback and then once the um the assumptions that you have are more or less validated you are good to start developing for pro right. So then uh with this um these are some of the I would term this as um the modern product management um and um I um I've I've known about this I came to know about this um so-called um characteristics um is because of uh these books actually. Yeah. Yes. um which really helped me to define who I am today as well. Yeah. So next we want to talk about um discovery and delivery. But the key thing is that um it is continuous. Yeah. Um usually if you are building a pro um a product from scratch, your discovery process will take slightly longer and then you start your delivery. But the thing is um do you stop discovering after you have started uh coding? is actually don't you know uh know right because you will always have new features to build and is that's why I always think product is a mindset all right so we want to talk about what we mean by discovery which answers the question what should we build but the thing is what should we build is defined by the team not by the stakeholder and I'm not I'm not trying to say that we don't listen to the management right no we still have to be accountable to the project sponsors or the management It's just that um they don't dictate what we should build, right? And you need to bring back in the evidence that h this may not be really a good idea because when we tested this with the users and if we have um ks in the users community, right? You would be able to make a point, right? Um they don't they don't think um that this would help them. Maybe we if we try another way it can it can help. And in order to discover what should we build, we really have to get into the why, right? Understanding the why. Because I think as engineers um or rather the engineers that I work with, they tend to always jump into solutioning at the very first discussion of they don't really try to understand the problem and I think that's why product mindset is really important because we really want to understand the problem first. Right. Um next is um what we I mean by development is um the engineering the best engineering practices whereby how do we then build it well fast and iteratively and by definition is all these aspects that we will not talk about today because I'm quite sure you are the pro and not me. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I see smile so I think I don't need to explain this. Yeah. But this is really um where I would really cut the line between what constitute development versus what is discovery. So now going back to discovery of answering what should we build right? Um is this um anyone seeing this double diamond for the first time? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um right. So um when we want to answer what should we build there um there are def there are um defined phases for us to follow right number one is we want to be able to discover or understand what is um the why right or rather um what is the problem statement why is why um people are using the um product this way or what are some of their scenarios Right. So we want to understand the story, the why. And um how do we do this is by doing user research or market research as well as user interview. You need to be talking to your end users. And then uh and we not we don't just talk to one user FYI we need to talk to many. Yes. And the next thing is um from the many users that you have interviewed right um then you are able to narrow the um the the core problem that you want to solve um because um they will when you start talking to your end users you will actually see that they don't just have one problem they actually have many problems and many um different people are probably doing different things I know um doing things differently, right? So therefore um when you and you are not here to solve every problem. Yeah. But we want to solve problems that is of high value and um it is really um the problems that have um high stakes. And what I mean by that is that the pain is felt by the majority or probably um it is a workflow that will impact the business ROI the most. Right. Um yeah. And the next thing is um we want to um generate solutions. So is this is where the engineering team will shine to be honest because um and the reason why we need to include um engineers or developer right from the start of the discovery process is if we wait until the UI UX and the PM define what should the solution be and the engineering team is just there to implement it, you're actually not making good use of your engineering talent. Why anybody want to go? >> Yes, physibility. Yeah, that's one thing. And also um don't forget that um like when I was preparing here, the people was talking about oh you should be using llama and I think I heard llama. I think I heard some of the um some some foundation model um names, right? U which is better? I've already tested with this is actually the engineering team that know what is the best technology in time to solve that problem at that given time point. Yeah. So I always look to uh my tech lead because he's he always give me a lot of solutions and then it's actually to think about which solution would would work the best and that's where physibility come in. We always want to think uh want to test u what works right. So um so that would be the part about generating solution and one problem can be solved by so many solution and the thing is how can you define how can you then know which solution for you to choose to test first and this is why the last step is the most important whereby we want to be able to bring the solution that you have in mind to the hands of the end users. Let them test it first before you even start building. Yeah. before even before writing your Jira tickets. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And um with Jen AI um the landscape right I think we talk about user interview right and also um under um uh narrowing down to the core problem or u what is the MVP that you want to test out for and then um the to validate uh with the end users. So these are like the diff um the different AI tools that can help at different juncture and um what typically takes a product trio a few months to develop the understanding to synthesize the insights from the many user interviews and user testings the AI has just accelerated it. Yeah. Um and this is a little bit of a shameless plug. um team mentioned just now that um we have the AIdriven development course um that is um uh very much for the engineering team. Um another another course that we have is AIdriven discovery whereby we'll talk about how we can um use AI to accelerate these processes in discovery. Yeah. But the principles remain the same, right? Uh yes and therefore before we conclude this session um for me uh I it's very important that product is a mindset that the understanding is that product is not just um need to be done by someone who holds the title as a product manager right as um a engineer or a designer um this product thinking is really important. Yes. Um, and the key mindset shift is probably to be obsessed about the problem, not the solution. Right? Because we really want to make sure that we are focusing on building the best solution that address the problem in the first place. Yeah. All right. Um, the last segment, bear with me. Yeah. Um, how do we drive as an individual? Um why I would like to share about this is sorry why I like to share about this is because of um the conversations that I had before whereby um people who are already doing well um and but they still don't feel confident enough in themselves right and with AI I also hear um questions like actually will my job get replaced um but the thing is hopefully we all know that is not yeah um because there's still value for humans, right? So, um and this uh framework is not only applicable for um in the in the AI age. Um this is very much applicable right from the beginning. Um it is advocated by um this person's uh I think it's he's like what a senior vice president in Amazon. I don't know if he still is but um I think he goes by the name um Chris Evan or something, right? Yeah. Sorry about it. I steal his idea but then um yes it's very much applicable. Um so the very first step is um we want to make sure that as an individual we are doing our job well and how can we tell is actually really through your performance review right or um it doesn't have to be that formal you can always um go to the people that you work with your manager um to or your peers someone who is more senior to actually ask hey um you know what I've been in this project for the past six months, three months, two months. Um can you can you tell um is there um do you have any feedback for me? You know, always go with the mindset that um you would like some advice, right? Um and when you have that feedback you will already know where you stand because most of the time uh if we don't talk if we don't find coffee chat right you will always be it's either you think too highly of yourself or you are doubting yourself too much right and I hear this a lot from um the team members as well yeah so I always encourage them please talk to your client manager it doesn't hurt it's just like a 30 minutes conversation Right. Um sorry. And then the next one is that um um if you know that you're already doing not not bad, right? Then the next thing is to ask um how you can how you can help. Um and and then um they will always give you some suggestions and more importantly is do what they say because the last thing you want is you ask them for advice and you do the other way around, right? Then will that person feel u appreciated? probably know, right? Um so then the four step number four is once you have um you have asked to do more and um they give you a task and you have proven that you can do that extra task. Well, the next thing is really to ask for um bigger task or projection that can help you with your career growth. Yeah. and then again is doing what they suggest and it will just be a endless loop. Yeah. And um why the magic work is really because um it is human nature right as a person whose advice is being sought after. Do you feel good when um and and um of course you I would say of course you do right and um you will be more willing to help and if you feel like your advice is um can really help that person it will actually make you feel good as well right um and this is more like a partnership because you have people coming to you like how can I help you and um going back to lesson number one if you can delegate and you can elevate and Wouldn't that work for you as well? Right. And last but not least is um that it is mutually beneficial. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And um last but not least is that I think um to be taking the very first step um is is is um if we are fearful about taking that very first step uh or if we are highly introvert it's just very natural to have some form of resistance. But the thing is um the key thing is really to to to do something differently right the mindset needs to shift do something differently and you just um embrace it um with with um experiments yes and when you do well eventually you will be able to spread your influence with the people around you and I probably guess um that's why Michael organized this talk for this community right and um you will be in a place where you can cultivate a culture of sharing as well. Yeah. And uh last but not least um this will be the list of references where um um that I um that I made in coming up with this um slide. Right. And the magic loop um it is by um actually Ethan. Yes. Uh his name is Ethan. Yes. Yeah. Yep. And um um a little bit of a shameless plug here about the AI driven discovery course. Yes. And um if you are interested um please scan it. Um and that's it I guess. Thank you very much. >> It's not working. I need to update it. I see. I see. Uh sorry, my bad. Yes. Uh if Yes. If Yep. I can share it later on. Hang on. Uh um Yeah, I think I better share it later. Yes. >> Yep. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Do we have any questions for uh a lot of shitty opinions to myself? >> Uh sorry you speak too quickly. >> Okay. >> Okay. Sure. Sure. Yes. Um any questions? selling food.