How to Turn Your Knowledge Into Opportunity | Russ Ruffino | The Art of Charm

We can sit there and we can we can set goals and and we can, you know, make vision boards, you know, or whatever you're doing and that's fun. You know, I picked out the I got the cut out the little yacht yacht there, whatever. That's cool. And there's value in those things. >> But where the rubber meets the road is when you actually do what you would do if that were true. So for 3, four years before I quit my bartending job, I was doing visualizations. I was doing affirmations. I'm a millionaire. Thank you for my million dollar business. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Doing the gratitude work. Doing all that stuff. And then one day I woke up and I said, "You know what, man? If I really was a millionaire, what would I do?" Well, I wouldn't be [ __ ] pouring drinks, would I? >> I would be actually doing something. [music] >> Welcome to the show, Russ. It's great to have you. >> Thanks, man. It's great to be here. >> I'm not sure if many of our listeners know that you started your career in acting. Yeah, >> I'd love to hear what lessons around influence, persuasion, charisma came out of that part of your career. >> So, when I first started, if you asked me that question, I would say nothing, right? Because I was like, what the hell does acting have to do with marketing? And so, kind of the way I got started was, like you said, I was acting, right? And I was serious about it. So, I went to, you know, high school for performing arts. I went to UCLA School of Theater. The whole time I was there, I was like studying in some of the top studios in town. So, I took it like really seriously, right? But when you're acting, you're also, you know, bartending or waiting tables or doing personal training or like whatever it is, you know. So, I was bartending and um, you know, long story short, I I walked into Barnes & Noble one day and I saw that book, The 4-Hour Work Week >> and and that was like a huge gamechanging moment for me because that's when I first realized that online entrepreneurship was even a thing, right? So, I had no idea that even existed in my little world. I was like, you're either a movie star or you work in an office and that's it. And I was like, all right, so cool. It's like great. this this whole thing. So, that kind of got the wheels turning and then um I was I was also a lead singer of an 80s cover band, which is a whole other story. And my guitarist younger brother came in uh to the bar one day when I was working and he was like, "You know what, Recession, baby? I made $1,200 today. I made $1,300 today or whatever." And I was like, "I don't know what this kid's doing, but you know, I was like, "Whatever you doing, I'm going to figure it out, right?" >> So, I started learning everything I could about online marketing, affiliate marketing, or whatever it was. And the crazy thing was, man, when I sat down to write my first like video sales letter, it just flowed and and and I could just do it, which was the craziest thing. But I realized that so I was I was going through the first the first copywriting book I ever got was this book called Ultimate Sales Letter by Dan Kennedy, which if people haven't read that, is still like one of the best out there. >> And in the book, he's got these 11 I think it's like 11 or 12 questions. And it's like, you know, if your if if your if your target audience could could wave a magic wand and and make their life exactly the way they wanted it, what would that look like? And you know, what what keeps your audience awake at night, you know, sweating, staring at the ceiling? And I'm like, man, these are the same questions that we use in acting to break down like a scene, right? Like if like if you know, you have nothing in common with like Hannibal Lectar, but if you're going to play Hannibal Lectar in a scene, you got to find something, you know, that you can use, right? And so I realized that the most important skill in marketing and copywriting is empathy. It is the ability to mentally project yourself into your audience's world, into your audience's day-to-day and talk about exactly what are they thinking, exactly what are they feeling, what are their frustrations, what are their biggest problems, how are those problems showing up in their life every single day. And I was like, "Oh man, I've been doing this for like 15 years. This is great." And so when I realized this, then all of a sudden I could go there in my imagination and I could write really powerful copy to people that were in life situations that maybe I had never been in before. So I could promote like, you know, um a product, you know, a marriage product or or like a dating product or, you know, a business product or whatever. But even if it was in a situation that I personally had not been in, I could go there in my imagination, connect mentally and emotionally to what those people were feeling. And when you describe someone's problems better than they can, they automatically assume you know the answer. And even to this day, that's a huge part of our secret sauce when it comes to marketing. >> Yeah. And I think if you haven't as a listener seen you on video, one of the most common things about your video presentations is people say, "It feels like you're speaking to me." >> Yeah. >> Like directly to me and you have that ability on camera. >> Yeah. Many in our audience are now in this role because of COVID and work where they have to be persuasive, influential on camera and it's a skill. >> Yeah, it's a skill, but it's a skill that it's a skill that can be learned and you know if you just don't make some of the biggest mistakes that people make, right? So, especially when you're talking about, you know, coaches, experts, authors, speakers, anybody who wants to be a thought leader, a lot of the time they start the conversation by talking about either what's cool about themselves or they start the conversation about that thing that they're excited about. And that's really the wrong place to start the conversation, right? So, you don't, you know, they come out and they're like, "Oh, this is my, let me tell you my story or, you know, I went to Harvard or I did this, right? some, you know, I've done that, you know, or um, you know, there's this cool concept that I'm super excited about. Well, the only thing that gives you the right to talk about the stuff that you want to talk about is if you bridge the gap by starting the conversation with the problems that your audience has right now and and and so in my marketing for example, like I almost never tell my story. Like you ask directly, right? I like never tell that story. But the reason I don't tell it is because, you know, most of the time my audience is I have like two seconds to get their attention. And it's like, let me talk about what what's bothering you right now so I can tell you, you know, this is the way to fix it. And then if you want to hear about my story and why you should listen to me, then I can get to that later. But I start the conversation by talking about what you're hung up on and what you're struggling with and what your problems are. And honestly, man, that's a big big chunk of of of charisma is is, you know, talking about the thing that your target audience really wants to know about, which is their own stuff, >> right? That they care the most about. >> Exactly. >> Unfortunately, for many of us, we care the most about our own journey to get there. The credentials that we had to amass to get there, to be in a potential thought leadership role, to be a coach or an expert. >> Right. Right. And so and so the you know you you you the best thing that you can do mentally is close your eyes and imagine like first of all be clear on what is the problem that you solve right so who do you want to work with what's the problem that they solve what's your solution to the problem but once you know that and it and and the time has come to write good copy for your offer let's say you close your eyes and you go there in your imagination you ask yourself how is this person experiencing this problem every day on a day-to-day basis Right? So, like if I'm and this is what our clients come to us for, right? Because we have to build their webinars and their their stuff. And you know, look, just in case people don't know, we we help coaches and experts build um you know, $5,000 to $15,000 coaching programs that they can run from anywhere in the world. And then we show our clients how to sell that to cold traffic. So, this is people who have no idea who you are, you never met you before, just saw an ad, and they're clicking your stuff, and they're watching a webinar, and then they're enrolling in your high ticket programs within like 24 to 48 hours ideally. So, you don't have a lot of time to like make your case, you know. >> Um, so so you you know, if we're if I'm working on, let's say, a marriage offer and and I'm going there in my imagination and let's just say it's a marriage offer for men, you know, and and you go there, that's when you come up with copy like this, you know, does this sound like you? Do you do you wake up every day 12 inches away from somebody who's supposed to be the love of your life, but every day you feel like the gap between you is getting bigger and bigger and you don't know what to do about it? You know, um do do you ever do you ever walk around your house and you walk past your wife's cell phone, you find yourself reaching for her phone to go through her text messages, but you're terrified what you might find out if you did. >> You see what I mean? Like that kind of copy describes your audience's problems better than they can. And when someone's in that situation, they're going to go, "Yeah, how did you know that?" And that's what you want. Right. That emotional tension >> Yeah. >> is being painted. >> Yeah. >> With situations that they may have felt, they could be thinking about like what would have happened now if I did grab my wife's phone. Even if I wasn't thinking or imagining that, you put them right there. >> Exactly. Yeah. Like my client Betsy is really amazing at this. She's really mastered this. She's got this amazing offer for women and they're usually between, let's say, 40 and 65. And the offer is, I'm going to help you figure out if you want to stay married. Right? So, they're they're unhappy. The marriage isn't working. you. And it's just like, look, I'm going to help you figure out do you want to stay? Do you want to go? >> Yeah. >> And um, you know, she did this Instagram post, man, where it was like, you know, five ways, you know, to tell that your it was like something like five ways that your body tells you that you it might be time to leave your marriage. And one of them was like your husband starts to smell different to you. Not like he, you know, hasn't taken a shower in three weeks, but his his body his body chemistry smells different. That post went crazy viral. like people like so many women were commenting on it going like oh my god I thought it was just me or like oh my god you know and so just being able to describe those tiny little details of what it feels like to have this problem like that that's how you create instant credibility and authority and that's way more powerful than if Betsy were like yeah you know I have a PhD in marriage blahy blah from Yale or whatever because that's that's like the intellectual part of the brain something like what I just said hits the caveman part of the brain the crocodile part of the brain and that's really it makes People go, "Oh my god, yes. How do I fix this problem?" >> Well, I think many in our audience especially are very analytical, >> right? >> So, we tend to think logically about the arguments we have to make or how we want to persuade someone or sell something at work, something that's really important to us and >> we immediately go into logical because in our mind, if we just check the boxes and get you to logically agree, >> yep, >> then we get you onto our side. We build that trust and we have influence. But in actuality, that's not what we're describing here. We're talking about the emotions behind the problems, the frustrations, the impact that what it is that you deliver has on that person and tapping into that with specificity and clarity. >> Mhm. Every decision that we make is an emotional decision. Period. I mean, we are not logical creatures. We like to pretend we are. Yeah. >> So, like if someone if you if you take like a one of the really big questions of life, you know, like you know, do you believe in God? We all like to pretend. And I don't care whether you're a believer or a non-believer or whatever, but like we all like to pretend that, you know, we sat down and we philosophized about it and we just deconstructed and we read Nietze and we read Kagard and we, you know, did all these like logical exercises and then we finally arrived at the inescapable conclusion that God exists or God doesn't exist. And it's like that's not what happened at all. You made an emotional decision one way or the other and then you went back and tried to justify that decision with cherrypicked data, right? And that's how we that's how we make all of our decisions. And so, yes, there's a place for logic, but where I always start is empathy. Who am I trying to persuade? What am I trying to persuade them to do? And what is their life like? And how do I enter into their world so that I really understand what they're going through every day? Because if I understand that, then I can understand how my offer or whatever it is solves those particular problems, you know, like like I had a I had a team member once um and she was like our head admin and I put her in charge of payroll, >> okay? >> And she saw what everybody else was getting paid and she came to me and she was like, "Russ, we got to talk because I just saw what so and so and so and so and so and so are getting paid and I'm going to need a raise." And I'm like, that is literally the worst argument [laughter] for a raise like in the history of the world. You got to come to me. You got to tell me like, you know what I'm saying? You got to come to me and you got to tell me how you're going to add more value. And then you add more value and then you get paid more value, right? But you know that's that's she did not use empathy, right? So you got to go, okay, look, who am I trying to persuade? Okay, I'm trying to persuade my boss. What does my boss want? My boss wants me to add more value to the company. So let me come to him with a plan for how I'm going to add more value. let me add that more value and then I can turn around and say, "Cool, you know, >> it's worth 10 times more what I'm asking you to pay me." >> You see what I mean? But it's like we we always kind of start with ourselves. So, anytime we have a new client and I don't care what they're selling, a fitness offer, dating offer, relationship offer, whatever it is, that's always where we start. We go there in our imagination. Just like if But that was so cool and unexpected because as an actor, that's all we did. You know what I'm saying? And then and then the the the crossover between that and the marketing was like shocking to me because I I remember I remember I remember the day I was sitting at Coffee Bean and Tea Leaf. I had my little cheap ass laptop. I had just quit my bartending job, right? So I quit my bartending job when I was making about $500 a month online. So like barely like not even enough to make the next month's rent. And I got a huge fight with my boss and I and I really wanted to tell him to like f off because I thought he was wrong and I was right. But I didn't. I bit my tongue and I went home and I remember talking to my wife. Well, she's my girlfriend at the time and I said and she had just gotten fired like two weeks before. So, we were like we were we were like yeah [laughter] we were in a tight spot. So, so but I went home and I remember I said to her I said baby look you know um >> I feel like I'm being a wuss to myself >> and she was like you got to quit. >> Those are the next words out of her mouth. She was like I'm not going to have my man. You know what I'm saying? Total keeper. Right. >> But I remember you know so I quit and I was so stoked. I was like, "Oh man, I feel so good." It was like the most amazing moment. The next morning, I woke up in absolute terror. How am I going to pay my rent? How am I going to whatever? So, I went down to the coffee shop and I opened up my laptop and um sat down to write my uh a video sales letter to promote this product I was excited about. And um and it just flowed. It just like it just like came. It just flowed right out. like and and I and look I didn't know anything about marketing but as I was writing I was like this is this is good copy like I was like I could just tell this is good but it was just like so funny to me because going there in my imagination just fueled it's almost like the copy just wrote itself >> and it you know I I discovered like a new a new a new skill that day that I didn't know I had which that was pretty cool you know >> yeah my co-host shares his story in entertainment and also working in in bars is also that reinforcement around the value of having the charisma and those those oneoff off interactions in those short moments >> and building thicker skin as an actor with rejection. >> Oh yeah. >> And we see this with our clients who are trying to stretch themselves in their career, maybe put themselves out there as thought leaders, maybe thinking about being a coach >> and right away they're facing rejection maybe for the first time and that fear gets in the way of starting the business of launching something new. >> Yeah. So that's a that's like a really really good point, right? So, I mean, I guess the bigger question was is like is like how did I make that decision, right? Like I mean, I literally like what was the decision, right? And so, what I did was I just thought about it as you know what they call an expected value calculation. So, I sat down and I thought to myself, all right, look, >> let's say that I quit my bartending job, right? What is the absolute worstc case scenario? And this is straight out of 4-hour work week, by the way. Like, these questions are in that book. And I remember going through this exercise. Okay. Thank you, Tim. Oh my dude, I want to meet Tim Ferris so bad. So, I just want to be like, "Look, man. I'm probably the only person who actually read your book and built like [laughter] a $100 million company." You know what I mean? I'm like, "Dude, thank you. You literally changed my life." So, you know, Tim, if you're watching this, um, thank you. But, um, yeah. So, so what I did was I sat down and I and I and I just mapped out like you're scared, you're afraid, right? But when you define the fear and you name the fear, a lot of the time it's way less scary. Right? So when you're feeling fear, the fear is nebulous. It's like you don't you haven't really thought it through. It's just a feeling in your gut. But when you sit down and you ask yourself, all right, look, what is the absolute worstc case scenario here? I start that podcast, no one listens to it. You know what I'm saying? I launch that YouTube channel, nobody nobody gives a [ __ ] you know? Okay, that's not that bad, you know? And so for me it was like okay I quit my bartending job I run out of money you know and then it's like okay great so I ran out of money then the next question was okay if that happened what could you do to get things back on track even if just temporarily and it's okay cool I could probably I don't know take out some credit cards I could probably borrow some money from my family um I would just go get another bartending job and that might take three months right so the ultimately you know maybe I screw my credit a little bit but ultimately I'm right back to where I am right now that's not that bad but the best case scenario, this changes the whole trajectory of my life and I have a whole new way of making money and I finally have freedom and everything will work out. And so when you look at it like that where it's like the worst case scenario is not that bad, but the best case scenario is life-changing. You got to take that bet. >> And working through the worst case of like, well then I would do this, right? It's not just like sitting there like, oh then I'll be homeless or oh then I won't have a job. It's like well no then I'll just have to call my network or I'll need to apply somewhere else. So, you're taking the worst case and now you're mitigating all the downsides with some strategy, with some analytical thinking, with your logic. >> That's right. And you're so much more resourceful than you think you are. Like I I I can't describe the feeling of quitting my job, feeling elated, the next morning, waking up in absolute terror, but it it was like all these resources unlocked inside of me. It was like it was like leveling up in a video game or oh, I just got five more points in charisma and I just got there. I was like literally was like that. Yeah. Because because for the first time since I I graduated college, I was now in charge of my own destiny. If if I went if I went broke, it wasn't going to be because I caught my boss on a bad day and I got fired or it wasn't going to be because the bar that I was working at went out of business. If I was going to succeed or I was I was going to fail. It was 100% up to me. And and and there was just so much power there that unlocked. I was like, let's just go. So, you know, we we can sit there and we can we can set goals and and we can, you know, make vision boards, you know, or whatever you're doing and that's fun. You know, I picked out the I got the cut out the little yacht yacht there, whatever. That's cool. And there's value in those things. >> But where the rubber meets the road is when you actually do what you would do if that were true. So, for three, four years before I quit my bartending job, I was doing visualizations. I was doing affirmations. I'm a millionaire. Thank you for my million-dollar business. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Doing the gratitude work, doing all that stuff. And then one day, I woke up and I said, "You know what, man? If I really was a millionaire, what would I do?" Well, I wouldn't be [ __ ] pouring drinks, would I? >> I'd be putting pen to paper. >> I would be actually doing something. And then, and then I and then I took that leap of faith >> and um changed everything, you know? I mean, look, and you know, you could be talking to me, you know, from the cardboard box that I [laughter] I was living in if the story I guess in a different way. So, I don't want people to watch this, dude. I watched Russ's interview. I quit my job and now I'm homeless. Let's go. You know, [laughter] I'm just saying like, but it did it did it did work out. And and honestly, um, absolute and total financial ruin was never really a possibility because honestly, like I I I could have, you know, gotten credit cards. I could have borrowed money from somebody. I could have, you know, maybe taken a few months to get another bartending job, but I could have I could I could have made it work. >> So, let's talk about the evolution because we're talking about writing copy and this is right around the time that we started our company where >> it was written sales letters. It was copy on a website to sell your coaching services, to sell your training, your expertise. Yeah. >> And then video explodes. Yep. >> On the internet. Y >> and now it's not just about being able to write good copy. It's about actually being able to deliver trust, build rapport, connection, charisma over a video. >> Yeah. >> And for many of us, we might be good with our words, but that's a whole new challenge. >> Yeah. The key [sighs] to being good on camera is to get your attention off of yourself. That's all it takes. And I learned that from a um from a a guy a guy named D Caruso. I took a screenwriting course with this guy D Caruso and this guy was like he's passed away now but he was a very like oldtimey Hollywood screenwriter right so he wrote a he wrote like the bulk of the episodes of that show Get Smart like way back in the day like way back in the day >> old school >> and he said something I'm going to totally misquote him here but basically it was like you can tell when an actress gets into character because she immediately becomes beautiful. And what he what he meant by that was that the moment you stop watching yourself, you become beautiful. You become compelling. And so for me, I have to stop thinking about Russ Rafino and stop thinking about, oh, I better not screw up this YouTube video I'm about to make or oh god, what if I look like an idiot or whatever. And again, going back to the empathy piece, I have to think about who am I talking to? Who am I talking to? What did they need from me? And most importantly, what happens to this person without my help? >> You see what I mean? And if I'm thinking about you or like communicating something to you now, I'm not watching myself anymore. >> And then you become interesting and then you don't but it's automatic. You don't have to think about it. You know, my acting teacher used to tell this story about um about Charlies Theren when she was first getting started, right? So when she first got So she's from South Africa, right? And look, I don't know if this is true. This is all here to say, okay? Okay. >> But apparently when she came to the class, she had this really, really, really thick, you know, African accent because she was from, you know, and she hadn't done like all the accent work or whatever. >> And it was like you could barely understand her when she was talking to you. >> But when she was doing a scene and she was fighting for something that she wanted, instantly you could understand her. >> Wow. >> Right. Instantly. It was fascinating to watch. And so that I found, I mean, there's a million little hacks that people can use to like be good on camera or whatever, but like that's 99% of it right there. If you're watching yourself, you're going to feel awkward. You're going to feel uncomfortable. But if I'm thinking >> the person that I'm going to talk to, what happens to them without my help? Now, I'm not thinking about myself at all. It's all in their service. And that works on sales calls, that works on webinars, that works when you're making a um, you know, anything. Yeah. The point is is it's not about you. That's like probably the most important thing. And it's so funny because people be become influencers and it just seems like such a self-centered thing from the outside, right? But the people that are really good at this stuff, >> they're not thinking about themselves at all. They're just thinking about what do I want to communicate to my audience and what do they need to hear from me? >> Well, I remember we started the show as a podcast and having conversations in audio, right? >> And then video came in and I remember the first time being on camera. You see the light, you're staring at the camera and and [laughter] you become self-conscious, >> right? And for many of us with Zoom, you know, you hop on Zoom and you got the self view looking right at you. You are staring at yourself. So, it is hard to fight that urge to be self-conscious thinking about how you're delivering it, what you're saying. >> But the key is actually what's the impact on the other side of the camera? Exactly. >> Who's watching this? Who's listening to this? And what are they taking away? Not what I'm doing. >> It's very valuable to have what we call a substitution. So, you know, um you know, again, I'll just tie this back in acting since I guess that's the theme for today, even though I haven't acted in like 15 years. So, it's kind of like going there. We'll go there because yeah, we're in LA. Why not? Um >> like let's say so every scene you start with an objective, right? Well, what's your objective, right? And and maybe you're maybe in this situation, uh you're doing a scene where your objective is I want my power back, right? Someone's taking your power away. You're trying to get it back. You're fighting for your status. You're fighting for your power. Okay, cool. Maybe that doesn't mean anything to you in the situation of the movie or whatever it is that you're acting, right? And so you think to yourself, okay, well, who in my life >> do I really need to get my power back from, >> right? Like maybe it's that gym teacher or that acting teacher who told you you're no good or maybe it's mom or maybe it's your dad who took your power away. Now this is a chance for you to get your power back from that person doing this scene. Right? >> That's the substitute. >> That's the substitute. Right? And so now I'm thinking about that person and I'm like, "Okay, cool." Now, you see what I mean? Now, right away, it's it my attention's off myself because there's something I I want to I want to do with this person in front of me. Okay. Yeah. >> And so, let's say you've got something that's a little less aggressive. It's more benevolent. You're making this YouTube because um you're making this YouTube video because you want to help somebody. Okay. Well, then who in your life really needs your help? Like, who do you wish in your life really knew this stuff that you're about to communicate? And how can you picture that person and talk directly to that person? And it doesn't even have to be someone real. Maybe it's little you. >> Yeah. >> You know, maybe I'm talking to Russ from 10 years ago. >> You know what I'm saying? And I'm picturing, "Oh, dude, kid, please God, [laughter] don't." But you see what I mean? What makes the content interesting is emotional content, right? It's the emotional investment that you bring to it. And then, PS, that also gets your attention off yourself. So, sometimes just thinking about like who is that person that that really needs to hear from you? Who's that person that really needs to hear your voice? and maybe it's yourself, but as long as you're thinking about that person, your attention is on that person instead of worrying about, oh, do I look good or whatever, you know, the content is going to be way more compelling. It's be a lot easier for you to shoot it. >> Well, I want to break this down further because I feel like for many in our audience, maybe they haven't thought about coaching or being a thought leader, but we all kind of hit that point in our career, and I I see this with some of the older coaching clients that I have where you start off first just really focused on income, right? You want a family, you want to have a great house, you want to have opportunity. >> Then once you hit a certain level of income, you start thinking about autonomy. Like, oh, what would it be like to work for myself and not have this boss breathing down my neck and I have all these responsibilities of team members who just aren't getting it done and oh, I'm sick of dealing with this AI roll out. So, you start thinking about the freedom piece. Y >> and you establish freedom. Now, you're a bit more in charge of your time. Maybe you you move up the ladder or you start something else. And then it shifts to impact >> and now it's not about the dollars in or the dollars out. It's not about how you're spending more time with your family or not. It's like what am I going to walk away with? Like what is the ultimate impact I'm going to make? >> Sounds like we got to start with that first for many of us. Just think bigger. Think outside of the income. Think beyond the freedom of your time and think about what's the ultimate impact that I'm going to have in the job, the career that I've chosen, the life that I'm building, the coaching business, the company that I'm building for myself. What is the real impact? >> It has to start there because fundamentally we get paid to create outcomes like that's what people want. >> Yeah. >> Right. So you you know and and so many um so many people are just unclear about that. What is the outcome that you are getting paid to create? Right? And you really need to think about that. And I don't care if you're working at like Subway, you know, the outcome that you're getting paid to create is to create delicious sandwiches and provide a good customer experience for the people that are there. Yeah. And and and make their sandwich accurately and quickly and and you know, with a smile on your face. That's the outcome that you're getting paid for, right? But so many people don't think about that, you know? And I don't care if like if you're a marriage coach, the outcome you're getting paid for is to save someone's marriage, right? The outcome that I get paid for is to help coaches and experts build $5,000 to $15,000 coaching programs they can run from anywhere in the world. That's the outcome. >> Yeah. >> And I can't tell you how many people come to us and they're just not clear at all on on like what that is. But that is the foundation of everything because that directs the marketing, that directs the pricing, that tells you how to position yourself, that tells you how to communicate with your audience. So it all starts with that outcome and then fundamentally that is what a business is designed to do. Like like a lot of people hate on Elon Musk for example, but he's super clear what his outcome is. He wants to get us to Mars and everything is built around that. You know what I mean? You've got Tesla, which that's how you do the electric batteries because you you can't have a gas powered car on Mars. You know what I mean? You got the boring tunnels like you know connect to that >> that was bashing on on billionaires. I can't remember the politician but it was like no one's earned a billion. It's like well if hundreds of millions of people are driving the car >> Yeah. >> of course >> then you've earned a billion. >> Yeah. So, it's it's very similar here to to what we're saying. Like, if the the outcome the impact that you have on someone else is greater than a Subway sandwich, you're probably going to make more money than minimum wage. >> That's exactly right. Yeah, that's exactly right. And and and yeah, I mean like look, if you if you make a$1,000 widget like like a billion is just a thousand millions. So, if I make a thousand dollar widget and I and I sell that to a million people, I just made a billion dollars, right? >> So, what are they talking about? [laughter] You know what I Or if I help go to 10 billion, that widget widget to them is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> That's what that growth is worth. >> That's exactly right. And we tell our clients the same thing because they always undervalue themselves, right? So like again, just using the example of marriage coaching, so many marriage coaches or marriage and family therapists are charging by the hour, right? So they're charging $100 an hour, $200 an hour for relationship coaching or whatever it is, right? But >> like if you really are going to save my marriage, like what is that worth? Like I mean, think about that, right? Like I'm scared staring down the barrel of a seven figure divorce, eight figure divorce, shared custody, all that stuff. Like you're going to fix that. Okay, great. Like I will pay anything to make that happen. >> And the amount of hours I sp that doesn't matter either cuz I want the outcome so bad. >> Doesn't matter at all. >> But when you do hourly, you anchor to something else entirely, which is well, I spent 60 minutes with you, so therefore that's got to be worth 500 600. >> But if the outcome is save a marriage, there's no divorce lawyer, there's no splitting the property, and there's no kids custody battle. >> Exactly. >> That's a lot more than 500 an hour. So, especially now, everyone has to make the shift. Especially in the age of AI, is that you don't think of yourself as like, okay, well, I'm a realtor or I'm an accountant or I'm a financial adviser or whatever >> therapist, whatever it is. You have to begin to think of yourself as an outcome generator, right? And then what is that outcome that you generate and how can you generate that outcome at the highest possible valuation? And that will change the way that you think about everything that you do because it's all about that outcome. And then what is that outcome worth? And are you getting paid accordingly? >> Right? >> You know what I mean? I spoke to a guy the other day that was like a YouTube consultant and uh [laughter] and it was like, "Yeah, we'll manage your YouTube channel or whatever." Think I wanted like $35,000 a month or something like that, which I was like, "Okay, come on." But um you know, if you look at the track record he had gotten, I mean, he he has taken a lot of channels to the point where they're getting like millions and millions of views on their content. Okay, so that's the outcome. And then the only other question is like, okay, A, what's it worth to have that outcome? And B, is there someone else who could get that same outcome at a cheaper price, right? Yeah. But, you know, ultimately, like, if if you want to become YouTube famous and that's worth 35 grand a month to you, maybe that makes sense. >> Yeah. Well, if hitting a million views sells a,000 of your coaching programs at $5,000, then that $35,000 sounds quite reasonable. >> That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So that's so that's that's the that's the calculus. But so many people don't think about their own lives that way. And you really should like what are the outcomes that you can create for people whether that's your boss or whether that's you know the marketplace in general whether that's people that watch your YouTube channel or listen to your podcast or whatever it is. What is that outcome? You know what I mean? Like even dating like like what like what do people really want? Like they want to they want to have a certain experience. They want to feel a certain way. you know, like they, you know, I just I was thinking about this cuz like on the way over here, I was like like scrolling through Twitter or X or whatever the hell it's called now. >> And um you know, there were so many people that were like, you know, there were so many guys that were like, "Oh, women only want, you know, if you if you if you if you're not 6'5 with a, you know, Ferrari and washboard abs, you know, you're never going to I was like, that's like that's nonsense. Like that's [laughter] just not true. That might be how it is on a dating app." Yeah. >> Because all they can see is your picture. But if you actually go outside and meet people in real life, like >> women are attracted to things that are lots of people are married. >> Yeah, lots of people are married and not every man is 6'5. Lots of guys are married to like, you know, like look. Yes. >> You know, speaking of acting class, join an acting class. You'll be fine. You'll be you'll be surrounded by them and you'll probably be like the only straight guy there. Your odds are pretty good. [laughter] >> Yeah. And you'll be used to rejection acting class. >> I say that because I met my wife in acting class. So yeah, there you go. Even better, you know, speaking [laughter] from the truth. >> That's it. Yeah. >> Well, I want to get back to that point cuz you you had the illustration of your own team member as the boss come to you be like, "Well, I saw what everyone else is making, right? >> My expectation of the outcome for me is this." Not thinking about your outcome, >> right? >> Even if you're listening to this and and you're not a thought leader, you're not a therapist, what is keeping your boss up at night? >> That's exactly right. >> What are they staring at the ceiling worried about before they go to bed or while they're laying next to their wife wondering how are they going to get through this next quarter? And if you can solve that for them, you can come in on Monday and say, "Hey, I'm going to take this off your plate. I'm going to operationalize AI across the entire team. You don't even have to worry about it or figure out anything to do with it and make everyone's impact greater." Your boss come review is going to be like, "That guy or gal needs a raise." >> One of the best team members I ever hired, um, and I hope she sees this was this graphic designer in Australia. Her name was Salanne. So, shout out to Salian. I would go to Sally with a project like, "Oh my god, you know, this client needs their their whole website redesigned or they need their webinar slides done or whatever." And she said the four magic words, "Leave it with me. Just leave it with me. I got it." And I was like, >> it was like [laughter] it was like the wave of relief that just washes over you, you know? And then she would nail it. Obviously, you have to nail the project, but she would give me a first draft that was like 95% of what I wanted. I don't know if she was psychic or what. We don't know. We don't want to know. Right. >> But my point is is that that that is what your boss wants. Your boss wants get this off my plate and handle it and get the outcome, >> you know, whereas so many people um like to come and put the monkey on their boss's back. >> Well, I can't figure this out or I need you to make a decision about this. It's just like all these, you know, like the best team members are the people that take stuff off their boss's plate. So, it's an incredibly valuable question. You want to get promotions, you want to get payraises, you want to move up. Sit down and ask yourself, what is my boss stressed about right now? And how can I take that off their plate and handle that problem from start to finish and you will automatically put yourself on the fast track for promotions and payraises if you do that. >> Now, another core mission that I've been on with the show and with some of the guests you have had on is recognizing the importance of a personal brand in this new environment. >> So AI is revolutionizing the job market. We're seeing more and more people now feel precarious about what's going to happen with their career. Some are thinking entrepreneurship and and maybe throwing their hat in the ring around thought leadership, starting a consulting firm, an agency. But that first step to thought leadership, that first step to building a personal brand is very difficult for many to hit publish. >> Yeah, >> it's very difficult to post that one thing thinking, well, what if my sister sees this or or what if my ex-girlfriend sees this? What are they going to think? And that stops them from even starting the business. starting that venture. What do you say to that person who's feeling that publish fear? >> You have to give yourself permission to suck. Number one, your content is 100% absolutely going to suck in the beginning, >> right? Some a lot of my content still sucks. Yeah. You know, like I'm still I'm still figuring it out. No, I mean, dude, like not every real you I mean, and look, I'll be dead honest. Most of our money and our and our revenue comes from paid advertising. Okay. So, it's like, you know, maybe we we've spent probably $20 million on on online ads over the years. We made like $100 million back over that, which is cool. Um, but when it comes to organic, I'm still figuring stuff out. And so, you have to give yourself permission to be totally cringe in the beginning, right? To to go back and Yeah. to go back and watch your content and be like, "Oh god, I'm so embarrassed." You know? So, so it is what it is. Um, you know, but again, you have to do that expected value calculation. So, I put some reals out there and no and and and they suck. Well, if they suck, it means no one's paying attention, right? And if no one's paying attention, then by definition, no one cares. And so, you haven't lost anything. No one's just no one's watching. Okay, great. Cool. Keep putting stuff out there, right? Give yourself permission to be cringe. Um, I would say be consistent >> and just accept the fact that haters and and awful people are a part of life and it has nothing to do with you. So, we get a lot of hate on our ads sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes, you know, you get like spam, you know, comments or whatever on your ads. >> And there's this phenomenon called projection. And there's like probably um four ways mostly that people deal with their emotions. They suppress their emotions. Um they repress their emotions, you know, which is like I'm just going to distract myself. I'm going to keep doom scrolling or whatever, you know, I'm going to push this down. I don't want to feel this right now. or they project and that's where they put the really ugly stuff. So when there's something about themselves or something that they're thinking or feeling in the moment that they don't really want to be thinking or feeling, the simplest thing to do is to project it onto someone else. >> And if someone's in that state and you just happen to come across their newsfeed that day, guess what? You're the one getting projected on. But guess what? It's got nothing to do with you. Like nothing. And when I learned about that phenomenon and I realized that phenomenon, I was like, "Oh, okay. A lot of the hate that I get, it's got nothing to do with me. So, the only people's opinion that I really care about is if I have a client and that person pays me five or 10 or $15,000 or whatever it is to work with me and then they're unhappy, I take that seriously, right? >> But some random person on the internet who knows nothing about me, I don't care. >> Yeah. The unlock for me because starting the podcast, putting yourself out there, you know, 20 years ago when there was far fewer options to watch, so most people just skipped to the next. But back then, like they'll they'll hate watch, hate listen, and then let you you know about it. But the reframe for me was recognizing that no one in the arena, no one buying the ads, doing media buying, putting themselves out there on social media, creating a podcast is also slinging those negatives back at another creator, back at someone else in the arena. Like game respect respects game. Like you're in the arena, you're putting yourself out there. I'm not sitting there hammering negative comments on your ads. I'll skip the ad. I'm like, "Oh, it didn't work for me." But usually the negativity comes from the people who are too afraid to even enter the arena. Like would never put themselves out there in the first place. >> It's like if you're going to let your haters stop you from making the impact that you were born to make, you might as well just write them a check. >> Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Like if I had started running those ads and I saw those hate comments come up and I was just like, "Oh god, I can't do this." Right. I mean like like literally that would have been writing these people a $99 million check. >> You gave away a fortune. [laughter] >> Exactly. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, you know, being in the putting yourself out there, right? I don't want to even say like being in the public eye because, you know, what does that mean? But I mean, just putting yourself out there. >> There will be people who hate on your stuff, >> guaranteed. >> It will be cringe in the beginning, guaranteed. You will want to quit. Guaranteed. And all you got to do is just not do that. >> And that's why I wanted to go back to that that earlier point around impact. Again, I feel like if you center yourself around impact where I'm sitting here and I'm saying I want to change a 100red million relationships through this podcast, through my coaching company, and I don't want people to go through what I went through having a dad who got divorced when I was at a young age. If that's my impact, and I'm not worried about the numbers, then I'm not worried about the ads. If I'm not worried about my freedom of like what that means for my time with my daughter or what's going on, but I'm thinking really about the impact. that hater, that commenter, that person tearing you down, that doesn't sting. The person who's upset that they bought your service and they aren't happy, that stings. We want to fix that because that's part of the impact. That's the person you're impacting. >> That's right. >> If I have the cheat code to saving a marriage or if I have the cheat code to helping people get into better shape or all these different things, like my client Dr. Becky, she's got this incredible program where she helps dyslexic kids go from the bottom 10% of their class to the top 10% of their class in reading. I know. In about 12 weeks, it's insane. >> And she comes to me and she geeks out on the results and I geek out with her cuz I'm like, "Dude, this is kids that are reading, you know." >> Um, >> you know, but but but making that impact, if I if she has the if I have the cheat code to help kids read who can't read, who the hell am I not to provide that to the world? Like where do I get off not sharing that information? It would be like if there was a doctor somewhere that cured cancer and just wrote on a piece of paper, stuck it in a book, and forgot about it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like like >> we all have cheat codes to help people accomplish various things that we've learned, right? And maybe we don't have the whole picture, but we got something. And if you got something that can make somebody's life easier, you owe it to the world. You owe it to yourself. You have a moral obligation to put it out there in the world. And who cares what anybody says? You're going to get hate. Everybody does. You know, my wife follows this blog. Um I forget what the woman's name is, but she's this beautiful blonde woman. She has kids and she'll be like, you know, showing two of her kids in one of her blog post and then the other one's like, "Where's the third kid? Do you hate that kid?" It's like, well, no, [laughter] he's he's at school. Like, what is this? And you read these these quote these comments that are so asinine and you just realize this has nothing to do with these people are sitting there like stewing in their own BS and it's like this is just the trigger. It's like, okay, whatever. And when you realize that, you're just like, you know what, man? I'm going to put out there what what I've got, right? If I whatever it is, whatever I've got, I'm going to put it out there, and maybe it can help somebody. And I don't really care what anybody says, you know? So, and this has been a challenge for us over the years, too. So, I I know I'm I'm speaking from experience, that idea, especially when we got started in coaching, and you start hearing what other people charge and what those rates are to work with you, to work with us, and you're just like, >> "Oh, man. I could never charge that." Like how do you get to that level? Especially if many of us are starting in a nineto-ive job where >> our money is kind of tied to the amount of time we spend. We're not really thinking about that impact. So it's like, "Oh man, these coaches are charging $25,000 for a phone call. How do I how do I get to that point?" >> So for me, it just again comes down to the outcome. What being really clear? What you don't provide life coaching. You don't provide relationship coaching. You're not providing a one-hour call. It's what is the outcome that I am responsible for creating, right? Like and so many people don't even think about that. You know, what is the purpose of a coaching business? The purpose of a coaching business is to get freaking results for people. Yeah. If we're not getting results for people, then what the hell are we doing? Might as well pack up and go home. But if you look at the state of, for example, the coaching industry right now, and there's a lot of other industries like this, like so many people are not getting results. >> It's all about the marketing. It's all about making sales. It's all about getting the money in the door. having you know some some we >> recouping your meta ad cost. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like no no no who is actually getting the outcome here. So it's all about the outcome and it is the outcome that justifies the price. >> Yeah. So let's do that calculation back for those on the fence who are saying oh I hear what you guys are saying that sounds pretty interesting like maybe I could be a coach. Maybe I could be a really great example. My client Kate came out of the corporate world. um she had this you know good corporate background and one of the challenges that she had overcome when she was in corporate um you know and and look when she came to us she was super vague about the outcome right so this is a big part of what we help our clients do is get that clarity she's like yeah Russ I want to do something where like I empower women in corporate and I was like >> to do what she was like I don't know so we went back and forth and we dialed it in and and I was like okay what are these women dealing with and she was like okay well they're dealing with burnout so okay cool burnout that's something now who's got the most burnout. Is it any woman in corporate? And she's like, "No, if I think about it, it's the moms in corporate with young kids." >> Boom. That's it. So, we worked with Kate to create this 8-week program where she works with women in corporate who have kids. And the hook that we came up with was something like um you know, how to show up as a superstar um at work and with your family so that you never have to choose between either, >> you know, no matter how burnt out you are right now. You know what I'm saying? And she went on to just absolutely crush that offer because now it went from I empower women, which you know, again, that's vague. Yeah. >> To to now that one specific problem where look, if I'm a if I'm a, you know, VP of sales or something and I'm a woman and I've got a three-year-old and a 5-year-old and a six-year-old at home and I'm working 50our weeks, like I by definition, I'm going to be burnt out. How do you do that? How do you juggle that? >> And anyone who has kids will tell you that that tension is present 24/7. >> Absolutely. So, what we're talking about here from an emotional payoff and the the tension that that person or client of hers is feeling, it's 24/7. >> Oh, yeah. Especially for moms >> because it's like when I'm with my kids, you know what I mean? Like my boss is blowing up my phone and I'm not really present, the neurochemistry, everything. >> Yeah. Like like it's just it's like it's like how how it's it's it's almost an impossible situation. And so Kate built this amazing program that helps these women just totally like uh resolve that tension and structure their life in such a way. So they can be an amazing mom and do a great job at work and everything's cool. And it's like that is easily worth5 or$8 or $10,000 if you're in that situation because it is a musthave. It's not a nice to have, right? >> And it's very clearly not for everyone. >> She's not going to help the single 20some who's just starting in her career. She's not going to help the mom who has kids already off to college. A sea sweetite exact. Like >> she has it dialed in. And okay, you may be listening saying, "Whoa, that that TAM total market value is pretty small." Like, how many of those women? It's >> got to be at least a million people, right? I mean, right? And then how many do you need? If you have a $10,000 coaching program and you get 10 people a month, you're making $100,000 a month. If you get 100 people a month, you're making a million dollars a month. Like, >> right, >> that's enough. >> Yes, that's probably plenty. >> Looking at the the calculation, once you understand and arrive at the impact and the emotional payoff, >> exactly. So that's a going back. It's like, okay, cool. I don't care if you're in the corporate world or you're doing consulting or you know, whatever it is you're doing. You want to you want to begin to consider what is the outcome that you can help other people achieve and then what is that outcome worth and who really needs to have that outcome. And once you understand that, you know, and you can do this from within your job like we said, it could be your boss, but what's the outcome my boss really wants to achieve? That is how you raise your value in society is by helping people achieve the outcomes that they want. And this is true for software. It's true for coaching. It's true for any kind of product. You know what I mean? Like like I bought a one of those stupid things like screws onto the your dashboard and you can stick your iPhone on it, right? Like what's the outcome? I want to be able to use my freaking iPhone in my car. Okay, great. Which one of these products is going to help me do that as efficiently as possible? And what's that worth to me? >> But it's like that is where you start. You know, you don't think, okay, well, what's our brand or what's our brand colors or what's our logo or what's our what? No, it's like everything flows from what is the purpose of this, what is the outcome we're trying to provide, who are we trying to provide it for, and then everything needs to be built around that. That's your northstar. >> And I think at times it's a little hard for people to wrap their head around. So, I'll give another example. I was >> um business started doing well and I started getting invited to go golfing here in SoCal because the weather's so great. Growing up in Michigan, it was the weather was not golf friendly and there weren't as many golf courses. So, I was like, "Well, I got to take lessons now living in LA." And I remember going to the driving range, there's some guys with business cards handing out their lesson rates. It's like $100, $200 an hour type rates. And then I met this one guy and he's like, "No, I work with professionals and I'll build you a game that impresses your foresome." And I remember that stuck with me because I was saying no to golf because I'm like, I'm going to be the worst one on the course and I don't want to be laughed in these business opportunities to connect with people. And I ended up paying him a package deal was like 6K simulator >> and I didn't do numbers on the hours or how much time we're spending. But I'll remember four months later, I'm out with one of my original buddies who invited me out and and I'm knocking the ball around. He's like, "Dude, how did you get so good?" And I'm like, "Oh, I've been taking these lessons." And he's like, "Oh, is it one of the guys at the range?" like, "No, here's this card." And it's an expensive package, but but it's the outcome. >> The outcome was worth it for me. >> Cuz you don't want golf lessons. Nobody wants golf lessons. You want the outcome. You want to have a game that impresses the foresome. You know what I mean? We had a we had a golf guy come through our program and I forget what the exact hook was, but it was something like I'll turn you into a scratch golfer in in eight weeks or whatever it was. And it's like that's what people want. Like that's so easy to say yes to. Do you want a golf lesson for $200? Uh that's hard to say yes to, >> right? and that golf lesson for $200 an hour. He might be better than the guy charging 5K. [laughter] He's probably had hundreds of clients, but he doesn't understand his value and the outcome that he delivers. >> That is such a good point, man. Because what people don't understand is that good marketing is a force multiplier. You can have two chiropractors across the street from each other. One of them is the best chiropractor in the world and his marketing sucks, and the other one's a pretty good chiropractor with great marketing. That guy is going to just eat the other guy's lunch all day every day. you know, it's it's essential. Like this whole idea of like, well, if you build it, they will come or if you're the best, you know, the world will beat a path to your door or whatever it is. That's not true. It's just not true. >> Well, and unfortunately, many of us fall into the credential trap because what we end up doing is we seek the degrees, we seek the certifications, we seek the accolades that raise our resume in terms of page numbers from one to four. And then you get invited into rooms with other experts, >> but you have no clients. You have no people reading your papers. You have no people interested in buying your books. Great, you got the credentials. You spent all day long impressing other super smart people, but they're not your client. They're not the people you're going to help. What you're talking about is worthiness. And that is one of the biggest sources of self-sabotage ever. This whole question of am I worthy? You know, who the hell am I to charge $5,000? Who the hell am I to have a, you know, a hit podcast or who the hell am I to go on YouTube and make these videos or whatever? And the truth is >> only you can bless yourself in that way. You know, it's up to you. God is not going to come down from heaven and stamp you on the forehead and say, "Oh, you know, you're worthy." Like the king of the internet is not going to appear and say, "Yes, you may have a YouTube channel. You're worthy." >> Is like [laughter] not going to come to your house. Yeah. No, it's like it's like Yeah. like you have to just decide that you've got something of value. You know, if look, if you want to share a message with the world, then I believe that you are automatically worthy to share that message. And you have to decide that for yourself. This is a big thing that we have to do with our clients, man. Even our successful clients, because here's the weird thing, >> the mental game. >> Well, there's the there's the worthiness trap of just getting started, right? Like, you know, just getting the ball rolling, right? I'm going to come up with a $5,000 coaching program and I'm going to put it out to the world. Like that's scary. >> But there's additional worthiness traps that come up along the way. Yeah. So, in my in my mastermind, we call this the $100,000 month meltdown. Okay. Where and this caught me totally by surprise, right? Cuz I think, you know, we obviously we don't get everybody to $100,000 a month, but when we do, I think, dude, I'm crushed. This is great. I've done my job. This joined the calling. Meanwhile, their life is like >> what we found is that when they hit that number, and it's not always that number, but there's some number that we all have that represents like a quote unquote lot of money to us, like an uncomfortable amount of money. When they hit that, they always have a contraction. They always have a little freakout. And it comes down to that notion of worthiness. You know, who the hell am I? I'm making $100,000 a month. No one in my family has ever made more than $60,000 in a year. And all this, it's just totally uncharted territory. And so we have to do a lot of mindset work with those clients, you know, but now we prepare for it. Like we expect it. We say, "Hey, you know, Sarah's getting Sarah's getting up there. Let's just keep a close eye on her. And there's the meltdown, right? Let's go. Let's go fix it." Yeah. And that caught me totally offg guard. I was not prepared for that. But it makes, you know, it makes perfect sense. And it kind of sort of didn't happen to me because like, you know, I wanted to be a movie star. Like I'm comparing my life to like Brad Pitt's life, you know? It's like [laughter] anything. I'm not even close to like my barometer of like Yeah. But for our clients, it was a it was a big deal. And uh you know, and we and we had to we had to deal with it. So that worthiness piece, it's it's just a decision that you have to make that you are going to put yourself out there. You're going to make the impact that you were born to make and you're going to freaking do your best and you're not always going to get it right. Like we said, you're going to have content that's cringe. You're going to have customers that want a refund. You're going to have somebody that joins your coaching program and they do the work and they don't get the outcome. And the question is, okay, great. If that happens, what do you do to make it right? Yeah. >> Right. You just make it right. You know, it's like it doesn't have to paralyze you. It doesn't have to stop you because no one's going to come in and tell you that you're worthy. Nobody. >> And I think that is also a big part of the journey is that we're always going to go beyond what we thought was possible. If we are truly hardworking, we're resourceful, we're putting everything into it, and we have these big goals of making a great impact, that's inevitable for everyone. Mhm. >> And you know, I have coaching clients who aren't necessarily in their own business doing that, but they now got a title and a team and they're facing imposter syndrome because of that. Like, >> oh wait, now I'm actually in the room that I I didn't realize I was going to get in, right? >> How do I handle myself here? I don't want to screw this up, right? >> I don't want to be seen as a fraud. I don't want people to think I'm not good enough. >> Yeah. Someone's always going to think you're not good enough. Someone's always going to think you're a fraud. Someone's always going to hate you. Someone's always going to have a problem with you. >> Who cares? >> Yes. There's billions of people. >> That's what I'm saying. You know what I mean? Like like you you pull up like you ever heard of the French Laundry? Yeah. In California, right? People who aren't here. It's like this, you know, Michelin starred restaurant. Supposed to be the best restaurant in California, right? >> Do they have five stars? No. I think they have like four and a half stars because you go there and some guy's like, I couldn't find a place to park. Zero stars. >> Yeah. [laughter] Like the napkin wasn't iron, right? Like the reviews like not even about the restaurant. >> The food not even what's being reviewed. >> This is what I'm saying. Like there's always going to be people who are haters. The question is, are you going to let them determine what you accomplish in this life or not? It just it doesn't it doesn't have to be a thing. So, like, look, not to get super woo woo, man, but I believe that what we experience in our life is basically just an outpitching of our of our most deeply held beliefs, right? It's just like the world, the way the world works is just like if you were plugged into the matrix, right? And the the matrix was designed not to show you what you want, not to give you everything you want, but just to be a mirror of everything that you believe. And if you believe that you cannot have success without encountering certain obstacles, you're going to encounter those obstacles. >> Absolutely. >> It's going to, you know, and and all that matters is whether it is something that is real to you that you're going to that that you're going to allow to stand in your way or not, you know. And so you really have to look at your beliefs. You know, if I have this feeling of unworthiness or have this feeling of like, well, I don't belong in this room. Who says, >> right? Yeah. >> Who says? Everybody feels like a fraud. Everybody feels like an impostor. You know what I mean? I guarantee you if you got, you know, like Elon Musk is probably about to become the world's first trillionaire. Okay, so I like using him as an example because that's just nuts. Every day he probably wakes up going like, "Oh god, Starship blew up." Like he's not sleeping. [laughter] Yeah. Of course he's worried about it. >> Exactly. Like everyone feels that way. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, okay, you just have to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And you just have to decide. It's a choice. It's a choice to say, look, I this is the difference that I want to make in the lives of of the world. This is the impact I want to make on the world while I'm here. How can I make that impact in the biggest possible way? And who cares who thinks I'm worthy to make it or not? I want to share one last story because I think it'll resonate with a lot of the audience members who are just not quite clear on what that thing that could unlock that impact is for them. >> So, I had a buddy who had a startup, went get funding, and the startup just blew up in his face. It was a massive failure. >> And after the startup, he would have friends reach out to him and share, oh, I just got this job offer and they're giving me some equity. And he'd be like, whoa, did you sign? And because he went through as a founder the process of raising capital and all the intricacies of how to not get yourself screwed over, he built a lot of working knowledge that he just started sharing with his friends. Now, he could have never turned it in anything because, oh, I failed. My startup blew up. Woe is me. Everyone's out to get me. But instead, he found himself in these conversations again and again in the Bay Area with friends who are getting these crazy offers. And he was helping them. He's like, you know what? I'm going to start coaching people. I'm going to start sharing this knowledge that I have that seems pretty valuable for my friends. And you know how he priced it? He said, "I'm not going to do it hourly. I just want a piece of whatever the upside is and I'll I'll help you out." >> And I remember he was telling me his numbers in the first year. I was like, "Wait, what? >> What? >> How?" >> And he's like, "Well, I recognize for everyone it's different. Like, I don't need to necessarily spend hours. I just got to review the contract. Some people need hours and hours of coaching. So I I do whatever it takes to get them that outcome, to get them their offer, and he's killing it. >> Y >> So I just want to plant that seed for people in the audience right now who are like, "Well, I'm not credentialed AJ. I'm not a therapist. I I hate my job or I'm worried about AI. I don't really like what I'm doing." This opportunity is there for all of you. Whether you're a golf instructor, whether you talk about relationships like me, whether you helped your friends negotiate salaries and raises in tech, that opportunity to be the thought leader to launch your own thing and sell outcomes is there right now for every human. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. You just have to expand your sense of what is possible for you. You know what I mean? I mean, you know, I remember when I was bartending, I had my 30th birthday and I remember sitting in the lobby of the Palazzo Hotel because we went to Vegas for my birthday and I was with, you know, my girlfriend at the time who's now my wife. I remember sitting there with my old with like my old fashion in my hand, like literally crying cuz I was like, I'm not going to be a 40-year-old bartender. Like, I don't know what I'm going to do, but something something's got to change. And, you know, almost right after that is when that opportunity sort of came up to to get into the online thing. And I just, you know, and I just and I just went for it. Um, you know, and and and if you if you're if you're just starting out, like tap into that sense of desperation. That sense of desperation is so powerful because what the hell do you have to lose? Like what did I have to lose? You know what I mean? Like worst case scenario, I gave it a shot and, you know, it didn't work out and I'm right back where I was, you know, but if it did work, >> then everything would change and everything, you know, and and everything did change. And it's like it's, you know, I I think I believe you can have it just the way you want it. I I believe you can write your own ticket. I believe you can decide what you want life to give you and if you are willing to stay faithful to that vision that you can have that you know like playing small for anybody listening to this doesn't serve anybody. >> Thank you for joining us Russ. Where can our audience find out about the work you do? So the work we do, if you're, you know, coach, consultant, expert, author, speaker, and you want to uh make a bigger impact on the world and create the kind of programs I'm talking about, the website is clientsondemand.comofcharm. >> Wonderful. We'll put it in the show notes. Thank you. >> You got it, man. >> This was awesome. >> Yep. >> [music]