How to Take Full Ownership of Your Own Health | Lisa Bilyeu on Health Theory

And eventually got to the point, I remember thinking nothing is working. I've gone to all these doctors, we've paid all this money, nothing's working. And you kept going on about keto. And that's when I was like, what what's the harm? Like at this point, I can't like if I'm going to be in more pain cuz I've had one meal, what's the difference? I'm in pain every day anyway. My hair's falling out, my nails are brittle. And so that's when I then started the ketogenic diet. But um there were a lot of times I wanted to throw my hands up, but I just kept reminding myself, all right Lisa, you've got a choice. Throw your hands up and slowly start dying, or fight and slowly start living. Hey everyone, welcome to Health Theory. Today's guest is none other than Impact Theory's very own Lisa Bilyeu. She's one of the founding members of Quest Nutrition, and she's my co-founder in Impact Theory. And if her last name did not give it away, she is also my wife. On top of all that, she is one of the most extraordinary human beings I have ever encountered. And I'm not saying that because she's my wife. She's my wife because I believe that to the core of my being. And what we're going to be talking about today is one of the reasons why I think that, how she's handled her battle with catastrophic dysbiosis. I've watched her fight through debilitating pain for years on her journey to recovery, and we wanted to share with you guys what we have learned thus far. It is very much still a journey, I am sad to report, um but I wanted to bring people up to speed on everything that we've learned so far. But I think before we can get to that, we need to rewind, tell people how this all kicked off. Yeah, um well, we had dreamed big our whole lives. Um we finally had gotten like the house of our dreams, Quest was successful, we thought we were riding high. Um one of the dreams I'd had was to do like that um rap music video where I've got a champagne, I'm standing by the waterfall, and I'm pouring it over me. And we actually had a waterfall, and we had a swimming pool, and we had champagne. And you took a photo, and I'm drinking the champagne from the bottle. And like, what was it? 5, 10 minutes later, I was like, my stomach is really hurting. And within the next 30 minutes, it was hard for me to breathe. Within an hour, like it was so debilitating, I couldn't even step in the swimming pool cuz just the water brushing against my stomach. Yeah, the pressure. And I just said to you, "Babe, I don't know what's going on, but I I can't stand. I can't breathe." My entire stomach had protruded out. Um and so that was really the start. Um which, knowing now, there was really the start was 15 years before, but it had finally all caught up with me. And that was the the day it really just changed my life. Mhm. It's interesting that that's like the marker for you. That's not how it started in my mind. Where it started for me was we were about to go to Vegas. I had shown up to work with my luggage. We were getting on a plane in a couple of hours. I was so excited, needed a break. And you text me, and you're like, "I'm feeling weird." And I'm like, "What do you mean you're feeling weird?" And then the next text was, "I need to leave." And then the text after that was, "I just threw up." And I was like, "What? Like, do you have the flu?" Which was what I assumed was, "Oh, this is the flu." And so for a long time, I was like, I didn't think it had anything to do with your digestion. I thought you had the flu. And so then finding out that, okay, it wasn't a flu, it was probably a parasite. And then this notion of a threshold event. And tell people about your background that led to the threshold event. Yeah, so um around 60 So, I grew up very skinny. And so, my entire life, especially as a girl, I would get older women that'd be like, "Enjoy it now. Enjoy it now." Um and then growing up, I would see my mom um eat very little and looking back now I do believe that she was some form of anorexia and she was eating very little. Then my sister when she got to 16 she would drink Slim Fast and so it was such a different world for me until I hit 16 and I started to really develop and and boyfriend at the time grabbed my thought my hip and was like oh aren't you getting fat? And that one comment maybe cuz I've been primed for it you know with like women need to be skinny you need to eat a little and I would eat everything I saw. So that was where that shift changed for me and I went from eating anything I wanted not really thinking about body image or anything like that to people saying oh cheese is really fatty is really caloric so I would cut out cheese and then oh carbs are really bad so I cut out carbs and before I realized I was I'd cut out carbs I'd cut out fat and all I was eating was protein and then before I knew it I was how I was eating year after year not realizing that the immune system is carried in your gut so I was getting sick which when we first met I was getting sick what once a month maybe? It wasn't quite that much but it was I'd peg it at every couple of months probably. Yeah I didn't realize though why I was getting sick and so I was taking antibiotics and I would feel better and then within a month or two I'd get sick again I suffered from chest infections that was like and I would get sick antibiotics sick antibiotics I had a reduced diet so I wasn't replenishing my gut with different types of bacteria and over year after year I started finding it more and more difficult to stomach foods and I didn't know why I just thought it was me because here I was with a husband who could stomach anything and my family could as well so I literally just pegged it as oh it's me it's nothing I can do it's not it's out of my control. Um so, yeah, our whole relationship together, I could always eat whatever I wanted. I would put on fat, but I never got an upset stomach. Whereas, you wouldn't put on fat, but you did get an upset stomach. Um, and that was something that you hid from me for a long time. Not necessarily even like intent, I mean, maybe you were, but it didn't feel like you were intentionally hiding it, but I was very surprised by that and then sort of doubly surprised that you would eat like that anyway if it hurt your stomach. And I think one thing that will be um, very interesting for people to hear is that relationship with why didn't you give up the food if it was hurting your stomach that much. Um, how did that play into some of the emotional distress around this because that really I think is is the thing I most want people to understand is the physical discomfort is is terrifying, but the reason that this episode is so powerful is the emotional distress um, became all-consuming for a while. Yeah, when you say it, it's funny. I never really thought of it as like I was deliberately hiding it from you, but I was. Like now that it's not like I was lying, but the one thing that's always been a very um, prominent with me is being aware of other people around you. So, um, when I'm sick, I was like, you are affected by it. And to just think that it's happening to me because I'm feeling the pain, I think is very unfair and rather dismissive of the partnership that we have. If I'm sick, it affects both of us. I'm not going to be that person that's like, "Woe is me. I'm going to stay in bed and you have to serve me." It's this is affecting both of us and I felt somewhat guilty that I was bringing that as part of um, our day-to-day lives. And then on top of that, especially as Quest was developing, I'm like, "Here we are. We own one of the largest nutrition companies in the world and I I'm sick. I can barely eat our product." And I didn't want that A to have a reflection of me, but then also because you were the president of the company, I didn't want that to then have an influence on how other people saw you or saw the company. And so there was an element of shame to it that I don't think people really talk about. And I was just ashamed for that this is happening to me. And so that's probably part of why I didn't change the way I ate and just suffered in silence because I didn't want people to be like, "Oh my god, are you okay?" Like, "Oh, what's wrong? Oh, you can't even eat your own product?" So I just thought better to just not say anything and basically suffer in silence. Not realizing I was doing worse and worse to my body. If I had realized that, like, all right, Lisa, now's the time if you just stop, then you can recover quick, of course I would. Everything's in hindsight, but I didn't. So I would just kept going. I just thought, well, this is just me. Cuz that was the belief I had. This is just me. This is just my body. There's nothing I can do about it. So [ __ ] my colon. I'm going to have as much wonderful moments with my husband as I can because there's nothing I can do about it, which is ridiculous now understanding what we've kind of discovered. But that was definitely why I hid it and the shame of it. I've never used that word before actually when it's come to this, but that's absolutely the truth. It's really interesting and I think that that is part of what makes your story so powerful. And one of the things that I find um just beyond inspiring with you is your journey has been twofold. One, it's been um stepping out of being a housewife and becoming an entrepreneur and that has had this radical shift in your personality and how you approach the world and all of that. And then this other sort of radical shift from not wanting to be too loud, not wanting to be too needy, not wanting to be judged by other people, and now, you know, it's like the you've stepped into your own sort of bad [ __ ] and like pink hair and like if people really understood how far from that you started, I think the journey is that much more interesting. And now, walk us through, I want to to linger on the word shame for a minute, and how you go from that to now you talk so openly about because in some ways, and you this is not my favorite topic in the world, but in some ways this comes down to a life where you really have to think about bowel movements and things like that. And that's where this gets embarrassing. And so, talk about that. Talk about the fear of just leaving the house cuz you don't know where the next restroom is going to be. All of that. And then how we end up here where you're able to do this episode. Yeah. Um initially, it was definitely because it was I didn't want to be a burden to you or the company. Like we'd put so much energy and ourselves into Quest. So, the last thing I ever wanted was to be the thing that took it down, right? Or to be the thing that gave it a tarnished reputation because the owner's, you know, wife can't actually like even eat the food. So, if she can't eat it, right? Like how other people So, I I was very aware of that. And then also, I think just self-confidence. I didn't have the confidence I do now to say, "Yes, I'm going through this." And I didn't want to appear weak. That was a big thing for me. Because you and your business partners are very alpha males. And so, here I was just trying to keep up and stay strong. And so, I didn't want to appear weak to you guys. And not in the sense of like you would dismiss me or think less of me, but more like I wanted you all to rely on me. If [ __ ] hits the fan, you go to Lisa. Lisa's going to figure it out. But if Lisa's sick and Lisa's in pain and Lisa moans all the time, then you're not going to do it. So, I had had a vision of who I wanted to be, who I wanted you guys to see me as, and I thought that didn't fit in with the plan, to be honest. Um and then the team, I honestly thought being sick was a weakness. And so, even in my team, I hid it because I didn't want them to think that I was weak because, of course, in those moments, I thought, "Oh, well, if they see me as weak, they're going to walk all over me." And obviously, now I know that's not true. But, um I definitely thought that. And so, this that would play out on in my mind of like, "You've got to stay strong. You've got to stay strong." And, you know, I mean, at that point, I every time I ate, I ran straight to the bathroom. I was doubled up over in pain. I couldn't sustain any food or any water. So, doing that two, three times a day, I could just about make it to work. I could just about get through my 8, 10, 12-hour day, and I could just about get home enough to like get back into bed. Yeah, I mean, so part The next part will be, you know, how you go from that to where you are now because now you're still ultra die-hard. You're if [ __ ] hits the fan, turn to you, you're going to see it through, but you don't any longer have this feeling like you have to hide things. Was it sort of just a gradual sort of uh I [ __ ] told so many people now that whatever or um was it a conscious shift mentally of like, "I can't be uh I can't be beholden to this anymore. I need to The more I can be honest, then the more flexible I am." Yeah, it was definitely slowly. I mean, I have a very strong memory of being in your office. And you we just had a meeting and you said something. And everyone had left, and I was so upset, and I just bought into tears, and I'm like, "I can't believe it. Like, you're talking to me like this." And I was just a mess. And you looked at me, and you're like, "Who are you?" And you didn't say it as like a mean thing. it was kind of like, what has happened to you? And that face that you made me in that moment, like I still remember it to this day. And I just like you looked at me like you didn't know me. I remember being like, you've upset me, you've done it wrong. And I was so justified in my feelings. I really thought I was. And it wasn't even what you said. It was just your wide eyes where you're like, what the [ __ ] is happening? And that's when like I remember just like in tears and I went into your restroom and I was like almost hyperventilating. And I was like, what the [ __ ] is happening? And so that's when I realized I had gone in very serious and that the food issue wasn't just me eating. It was my emotions. It was how I was feeling. My hair was falling out. My nails were breaking. And it just becomes like, maybe this is more serious than I think. You know, and then it would come to the fact I would put pepper on my food. One night I even said to you, babe, I'm going to try to put some pepper on my food. And I sprinkled a little bit of pepper on my chicken. And what, within 30 minutes, I was so hunched over in agony. You were like, do you need to go to the hospital? And you almost ran me to the emergency room with a bit of pepper. And so those sort of things made me realize it's not necessarily even something to be shameful anymore. I need to get help. Like I can't ignore this. Yeah, it's getting scary. And so that's when I would start to tell people close to me because also they could feel me retreating. I wasn't going to um parties they were inviting me I to. I never wanted to leave the house. And so I felt like they just thought I was a bad friend. And that's when I started to have to tell them, look, I'm really struggling with this. And then the more I would talk, the more people would reach out. Like, oh my god, me too, Lisa. Me too. Thank you so much for talking about this because I've realized it's not just about where you're from or how much money you have. It's actually about like real life issues that everyone can be a victim of. And so people thanking me made me gave give the strength to speak out more, to really talk about it more, to tell people the strategies that we were discovering. Because if I can if I have to go through this, I've got a choice. I can actually use this to help other people, and in that I can be empowered. Or I can play the victim. And so I made a choice. I'm going to use this as it being the best thing that's ever happened to me, because now I can help other people. Yeah, I think that it's been really neat to watch you get positive feedback from people as you extend yourself and talk about this. So I want to recap for people. So we start with this threshold event where um you've been from having uh dietary issues from the time that you're very young to ultimately really restricting what you're eating. Um then on top of that you're taking um antibiotics routinely. I'm talking four times, maybe five times a year. Yeah. For years. Um so that's now just decimated the diversity of your microbiome. You're not able to go outside of sort of really basic eating habits for a while, and then whatever the parasite was that you got, we have this threshold moment. It looks like the flu, doesn't go away, and then we begin like a medical journey. Now the medical journey has been the part that's been very scary because you were misdiagnosed so many times. And the the classic statement that to a hammer every problem is a nail. Um I never quite understood what people meant by that. And what it means is if you're a gastroenterologist, then this is a problem with your intestines. If you're an immunologist, the problem's with your immune system. It's like everybody can only see the solution that fits within what they understand about the world. So first you were diagnosed, which he said it was an immune issue and that you had a compromised immune system. So, he was just off enough that we almost had a massive problem. So, you were going to get transfusions of your immune system. And I just have this really uneasy feeling that this is such a big response. Let's try all of the simpler things first. And so, we end up going down that path. We begin and I mean, I am cutting out so much stuff including the swallowing of the camera, endoscopy, colonoscopy, ruling out Crohn's disease, ruling out cancer, like I mean, just a whole host of [ __ ] things that we went down the path of ruling out. But finally, we center around this seems to be entirely based on what you eat. Like everything that you do is a reaction to what you eat. If everything that you do is a reaction to what you eat, this is almost certainly a microbiome problem. If this is a microbiome problem, then we should be able to begin attacking it from that front. We started beginning to stack wins. Now, one thing I want people to really understand though is you're stepping into a cloud of confusion. It is so hard to figure out exactly what's happening that it it becomes almost paralyzing in its confusion. Mhm. So, walk me through. What is it like as you're going through this? Like, do you remember certain milestones where you just wanted to throw your hands up and be like, this doesn't I don't know what to do from here. Yes. Um not specifically what happened that made me throw my hands up, but it was every time we went to a doctor, they said, "Oh, I know what it is. It's this and take this and you'll be fine." And I remember thinking at the time which again like the myth is like the more money you pay, the better the doctor. And so, every time it was a disappointment and a frustration. And eventually got to the point I remember thinking, "Nothing is working. I've gone to all these doctors. We've paid all this money. Nothing's working." And you kept going on about keto. And that's when I was like, what what's the harm? Like at this point, I can't Like if I'm going to be in more pain cuz I've had one meal, what's the difference? I'm in pain every day anyway. My hair's falling out. My nails are brittle. And so that's when I then started the ketogenic diet. But um there were a lot of times I wanted to throw my hands up, but I just kept reminding myself, all right, Lisa, you've got a choice. Throw your hands up and slowly start dying or fight and slowly start living. You know, it's really interesting. So, I'm thinking of the person that is in the cloud of confusion right now. They're in pain. Maybe they've tried something. Maybe they've read some stuff online. They have no idea what to do, what to try. Or worse, they've tried everything and nothing has worked. And that is very much how it felt. And the thing that I've learned going through this is that basically first principles is is the only thing that's going to save you. So, if you boil everything down to sort of the the simplest, I know these things to be true, right? What I was just walking us through. It the correlation between eating something and a reaction seems to be one-to-one. Okay, so principle number one, this is tied to eating. All right, principle number two, when you fast, you feel better, but you can't fast forever. A, and B, there does seem to be some sort of critical threshold where you've now fasted for so long that it that in and of itself starts to become painful. And you just start like breaking these things into these like really simple, very discrete chunks, taking things one by one. So, first win was um going on a keto diet. Okay, probably why did that work? One, it's very limited number of ingredients. Two, it's going to be removing a lot of the carbohydrates that probably play a problem. Three, ketogenic diet is largely anti-inflammatory. Um so, going back to first principles, what is the inflammation? You have to understand the epithelial lining of the intestines. So, if this is a dietary problem, something is breaking down in that chain. So, when I said earlier that this journey is the reason that Health Theory exists is because I didn't understand I didn't even know what a microbiome was when we started this journey. So, just figuring out that there's all this bacteria that resides in your gut, bacteria, viruses, fungi, like there's all this this entire ecosystem. And if anything gets out of balance in that ecosystem, then it can cause like this this communication, two-way communication from bacteria to your brain, your brain to bacteria, has this massive influence on your um neurotransmitters, which was some of the mood dysregulation, and then layer on top of that, just being in pain, which causes its own mood dysregulation. And so, you I couldn't even get my [ __ ] arms around the problem cuz I didn't understand what was going on. Like this is a key part of your story, and this really bothers me that this is a key part of your story. It's damaging to my self-esteem, but it's nonetheless true. So, one, if you're going through this, I wish it weren't so, but you must begin to learn because you can't get to first principles until you understand what the [ __ ] is going on. Meaning that you understand at least some of the biology. Now, when I think about how limited my understanding of the biology really is, fair, but it's also, as we've learned about this, it's really really helped us get a hold on this. Okay, so why is this damaging to my self-esteem? Because it wasn't until you realized I wasn't going to be able to solve your problem, and that you were going to have to take ownership, which was really [ __ ] hard for me to hear, but it was so true. Like for all my energy and effort, there was just just always enough gap between what I could understand from you and what I was learning that I I couldn't be truly useful to you. And so, once you took ownership of it, that's when we made real leaps and bounds. And so, anybody watching right now, I I really wish it weren't so, but they they have got to take ownership of this that if they're going to get better, it is entirely up to them. So, talk to me a little bit about like what taking ownership has meant for you, how you've found a doctor that you resonate with, even though it's you and I take very different approaches there. Um and and sort of where you began to get momentum. Yeah. Um when this first happened, I would turn to you. Like what what what am I doing next? Like what's the answer? Like you were reading from what, 4:00 in the morning to 8:00 in the morning every single day, and then you were going to Quest. So, all morning it was dedicated to that. But then you go and build a business. And so, for me, I'm just like it's all-consuming. It's every ounce. It's every moment of my day is consumed by am I in pain? Can I eat? I'm starving. I'm getting dizzy, but my stomach hurts, so I can't eat. Like that's how I was um every single day feeling. And so, when it came to the point where you were like some you have to like take ownership. Some of this has to be on you. I'm understanding the knowledge, but then A, you have to be um you have to reciprocate, right? You have to show me that you're listening, and we're going to try things, and you can't be so dogmatic cuz I was so fearful of food at that point. And I think that caused a little bit of strain for me and you because I just want you to nurture me, cuddle me, and be like everything's all right, babe. Here, take this, and you'll be fine. And over time as it just got I thought it would be a week, and I'd be fine. And right, and then a month later, 2 months later, 3 months later, and I'm like, wow. started, we thought this was going to be 3 weeks. I remember thinking like, oh, in a week I'll be fine. We'll go to Vegas another time. Yeah. Um and it obviously wasn't. So, realizing the severity of it was a big deal. Realizing that I can only expect so much from you, rightly so. You're a human. You've got a life to lead. Just cuz you're my hus- It's not even that cuz I I want people to cuz it would be easy to say, "Well, Tom just isn't dedicated to it." And And this is even bigger. So, I'm going to skip ahead a little bit. You having a doctor that you trust was critical. And it may be critical for a few reasons. One, she was she is doing things for you that are actually working. And so, that's, you know, part of what gives you the momentum to keep trying the things that she's telling you to do. But number two, neurochemically, cuz there's this a two-way communication path between your microbiome and your brain. For instance, this is why people tell you don't eat when you're upset, when you're anxious, whatever, because it will be metabolized by the microbiota differently than if you're relaxed. That is so [ __ ] crazy to me. The fact that the emotional state that you're in will impact how your body Not even your body, how your microbiome responds to the food that you intake. That is crazy and shows you like how big of a thing this is. So, if you're going in to get a doctor's help and you're already stand-offish, you don't have the trust, then that in and of itself is problematic because it's setting you up for that two-way communication. It It's You're not saying the right thing. So, it's kind of like some things are almost for sure a placebo, but the placebo can't work if you know it's a placebo. So, it's like you have to believe in what they're doing. Nocebo. Hey. There is such a thing now. A nocebo? Nocebo. Tell me more. It's basically someone that gives you something and you're like, "There's no way this is going to work." So, even if it might work, because you so believe it's not going to, it does the opposite. Where did you hear that? Women of Impact, baby. Um I don't know nocebo. But do you not remember though, me and you, we had a discussion because at one point, like I would just a breaking down, had enough, and cuz I'd felt like "Have you read anything? Have you done anything new? What am I trying?" And we sat down and you looked at me and you said, "Look, if I stopped work and all I did was pay attention to your health and there was nothing else I did in life, could I fix you?" Maybe. And it came to I had to take ownership. I had to start doing a diary going back to like what can people do at home is big thing which I'm no maybe controversial. I came to the conclusion everything is my fault. So, with me being this sick as I am, yes, the doctors gave me antibiotics. They didn't force-feed me. I took them myself. I swallowed them myself. Secondly, when the doctor said, "You know, I shouldn't really be prescribing you this many antibiotics, but here you go." Did I ever ask why? Did I ever go on the internet and say, "What does long-term antibiotics do to you?" No, never. So, did the doctor make me have a restricted diet, right? So, all these things are in my control. How did that help you? For the people at home who are screaming at their screens right now. me to recognize that if I can do this to myself, I can also heal myself. And taking full ownership of that instead of saying, "I can't. I don't know. Why me? This isn't working." Right? I can do that or I can say, "This is your fault. You got yourself into it, but the great news is you can get yourself out of it." And having that type of ownership start to go, "What does that look like? What does full ownership of this condition mean?" It means that I have to write down every single thing that I eat. It means I have to write down every bowel movement that I have. I have to even write down what I do when I eat. Where did I eat? Did I eat at home while in a meeting? Did I eat at home by the swimming pool? And starting to look at patterns. Because in your mind it's like there's no pattern and then I would look after 2 weeks and I'd be like, "Huh, that's really funny. The three times I I during a shoot, which is a pattern I noticed, Every time a Impact Theory shoot was on, I always got problems, but I would eat the same thing. Now, until I wrote it down and started to notice those patterns, I wasn't able to address it. So, ownership to me meant that I could take control. It meant that I could start to fix things, and then start to pride myself on being right. We talk about this all the time. Pride myself on being the person that is going to keep going to find the right answer. And that is why how I can take 4 years that we've been doing this and now look at it and say, "This could be This can pop- possibly be the best thing that's ever happened to me." because it has empowered me to change the way that I think. We built this set, this whole show specifically, um to basically address my health. And when I start reading comments about people seeing interviews that you've done, I'm just like, "Oh my god, thank you so much. This really hit home. Now I can start to help myself." It's like there's a great knock-on effect to me being to me taking ownership of that. Um and then to also just acknowledge the difference that made in our relationship, because I think for you, you seeing that I was taking ownership helped like you approach it. Like, "Okay, well, it's not just a battle that you're dealing with on your own. She's actually like becoming a part of it." And we realized together how much mindset plays into this. And initially, I thought it was such BS when the doctor The first call we ever had with one of our doctors, more the holistic side of things, and I've got my diary and I'm all excited because I'm like, "I'm the best like customer ever. I've got everything written down. They want to know what I ate 3 weeks ago for lunch, I can tell them exactly what I ate." And I had the book ready, and they look they, you know, on the phone, and they're like, "So, what do you do when you eat?" And I was like, "W- You mean what I eat, right?" And they're like, "No, no, what do you do when you eat?" He's like, "I actually don't care what you eat right now. That's not even interesting to me. I need to know what you do when you eat." And that was the first time I realized how much my lifestyle, how much the stress of the business, how long I work, not sleeping much, all of that, how much it actually affects my eating. And I never understood it. I thought that was all BS, all woo-woo. Um the mind, what's the mind got to do with the gut? Um and it wasn't until I became open to any suggestion, no matter how much I um didn't believe in it. The second I was open to it and said, "This could be it, the placebo effect, even if I'm wrong, but this could be it. I'll try anything now." Acupuncture? Yep, let's do it. You want me to go on a vegan diet? Cool, I've got this. You want me to go to all, you know, artificial food? Sure. Like, whatever it is that could potentially help me, I go in thinking this is the answer. Yeah, that is um one thing that that I really want to acknowledge you for and hopefully by proxy acknowledge a lot of the people that are watching is it is extraordinary to see how tenacious you've been through this, how you've never given up, the amount of pain that you've had to deal with and tolerate, and to stay optimistic and to stay positive, to stay focused, to channel it into helping other people. I mean, it it really is extraordinary. And trust me, I get I am beyond biased. Um but the truth of the matter is that part of the reason that this relationship has been the greatest thing in my life since I met you is because you have that just tenacity and that the the strength of character to see something like this through, which is really, really extraordinary. Um so, we find functional medicine. Functional medicine is I think better named root cause medicine. So, they're they're asking a a fundamentally different question. Not, "What do I give you to um make you better or ameliorate your symptoms?" What is actually causing the problem, which is why that doctor was asking you, what do you do when you eat? Because he's trying to reach into that cloud of of confusion and figure out, all right, there's a whole lot of things, some of them lifestyle, um some of this is almost certainly going to be stop doing that, um instead of just adding something to what you're doing, it's going to be a stripping away of other things. And so, addressing each thing unto itself. Now, another thing that we have to talk about is the amount of variability in a human with a normal microbiome is massive. And so, even early in our relationship when your dysbiosis was certainly sub a threshold where it was like a thing that we were thinking about, you could eat things that I couldn't eat in terms of um gaining fat. I could eat things in terms of not upsetting my stomach um that you couldn't eat. And now knowing what they are, of course, for you, massive triggers, soy, sesame, um a lot of oils, canola oil, Jesus. All right, in fact, this is Hidden oils. Hidden oils, this is Give people give people a little taste of what the [ __ ] this is. cuz you look at your food, right? You go out, for instance, I went to a burger place. Yeah. A well-known burger place. A very well-known burger place. And very clean, the whole thing is like um antibiotic-free meat, so you're like, oh my god, this No, they really care. This they really care. This is good quality. Cuz actually, initially, I also thought the quality of food was just a rip-off. Organic is just It's just a way to add a couple of bucks to a grass-fed that's a utter BS. Like, it's just a way to get money from rich people is what I thought. And I would get continuous stomach aches. And it's what I would consider safe food. And eventually, we called up the restaurant and we're like, what do you marinate your chicken in? Cuz it was just grilled It was literally grilled chicken. What do you mar sesame oil? I didn't even know that was a thing, but you can't see it. So, it never dawned on me that it was that type of thing. And it was like other restaurants that had great reviews, you know, massive in Yelp. And we went to an Italian restaurant. Italian. Not like a fast food chain that, you know, coats itself as a It wasn't actually an Italian restaurant. And I always now say, because I understand hidden oils, so I always use the phrase 100% olive oil. Not olive oil has to be 100%. So, I had said to the waiter, "Um do you use 100% olive oil?" And he's like, "Oh, I'm not actually sure." And I was like, "Well, they must. Like, there's olive oil on the table." So, he goes off, he comes back, and he tells me the chef chef said, "No, they don't have 100% olive oil." That's when I took the little bottle, and I'm like, "Yeah, but there's olive oil on the table that they you dip your bread in." He's like, "That's not 100% olive oil. It was mixed with canola." And I'm like, "You're an Italian restaurant. You have a bottle on the table, and it's not 100%." Blended oils. Blended oil. And that's when I realized that you sadly cannot trust anything. And that's where you if you're in a situation like myself, you have to take full control over it. Now, here's the other part of it. You take full control, but what happens is you become psychotic. And I recognize I've become psychotic. Right? And and it becomes Now, I've put fear into myself when I eat out. And what does that fear do? It stresses me out. Well, what's bad for the gut and your digestion? Stress. So, it's like this addressing issues, staying calm, taking deep breaths, calling ahead of time, finding out what restaurants I can go to, asking, "Do you have 100% olive oil?" Because if the restaurant says no, I just won't go. Yeah, that that has been maybe the most frustrating thing for me in all of this. One, it is so powerful, and this is why I brought this up. It is so powerful once you begin to identify your particular triggers. They're not going to be anybody else's trigger. I mean, look, some people may share them, but like we tried the FODMAP. FODMAP didn't work for you. Just adhering to that. Now, we found that there were items on the FODMAP that were problematic and so there is it's pointing at something that maybe is the issue for the vast majority of people with this, but it isn't for everybody and so you really do have to own going through finding out what your triggers are. But now that we know what your triggers are, like you can't have too much seafood in a row. You can have some, but not too much. Can't have soy sauce. Can't have sesame oil. And so it's it is once you know your triggers, then it's just a matter of making sure that you avoid them, but the problem is in the restaurant industry a lot of times they don't even know. So they don't know if it's 100% canola or 100% olive oil. I can't tell you how many waiters have had to go, "Oh, let me check. I don't know." Now, the ultimate goal, of course, is to get to the point where you can drink canola oil straight and it doesn't upset your stomach. We're not there yet. Um but one thing that that I would be interested to know is like what do you think you should try next? What do you see as the the next frontier for you to try? Slowly introducing things that my body's screaming don't have. So I actually spoke to my doctor today about this. Um my thing is I have to actually try soy and she's told me 3 weeks ago to do it and I admitted to her today. I was like cuz she's like, "Oh, have you tried it?" And I was like, "No." And I was like, "I totally know it's my own fear." It's I'm so fearful of what it's going to do to me I'm stopping myself, but I don't want to try it when I'm fearful. So I've had to work my way through it over these last 3 weeks and I feel like I'm actually I was going to do it this week cuz I feel like I'm actually in a really good place to be like, "All right, Lucy. You got this." Like and I have to have that mentality um because I know how powerful the mind is. Just um quick story. At Christmas time every other day I'd eat Cold Stone and I could manage it. And now I'll have half the amount and I'll be in pain. So part of me goes, "Well, oh, but you could have it then, so it must be okay now." And I've learned to never assess things like that. hypothesis? My hypothesis is I'm on vacation. 10 days. Yeah, 10 days office was completely shut. We were on vacation. We were relaxed. So, I understand that that's very powerful. So, in trying all these other little things that she's telling me to slowly introduce, I need to make sure that when I do that my mindset and my conditioning is right because I want it to be a true um evaluation, let's say. So, sesame seeds sorry, soy is going to be the first thing. So, all these little things that I want to try it, I have to be slow. I have to understand it's a process. When I thought it was going to be a week and I was going to be fine and 4 years later, I've just actually told myself, "Lisa, this is a journey you're going to go on for the rest of your life." But, everything now that I'm doing, I'm like, "This is a theory." Which is why we called the show health theory, right? We had such a strong idea of what it was that there's no way it could be this. And when we started the show, it was because you were learning so much that had started to um rebut the things that we believed in. So, then it's like, "Okay, well, our beliefs right now are holding us back." And so, why not open ourselves up to being like to even the things that we think is utterly false. Open ourselves up. Let's get some experts on this. Call this a theory because what we learn now in 5, 10 years is probably going to be different as technology changes. So, that was another thing of like with the show and just the mentality I have now is like, "It's a theory. It could work." And I always tell myself like I never say like, "Oh, it might not." But, um it's just going it's a theory. So, that way if it doesn't work, I'm not beating myself up over it or going like, "Oh, [ __ ] Now I'm back to square one." It's like, "Cool. You tried something out. Move on to the next." I have something I want you to try. You already know about it, but Oh, yeah. The carnivore diet. Yeah. So, here and again, this is just going to first principles. And if any of these first principles are inaccurate, then it wouldn't work. But, we've had some truly fascinating guests on the show who've talked about um um the way that plants protect themselves from predation is through chemistry. And to make sure that they're not getting eaten, um they're going to do things to make themselves less desirable. So, whether that's upsetting your stomach, whether that's tasting hot and activating cuz it's actually not hot, it's just activating the pain receptors in your tongue, which then is perceived by your brain as a being hot, which is very fascinating. But, that that's the plant attempting to not be eaten by anything or perhaps not to be eaten by certain types of things. So, okay, using first principles, plants don't want to be eaten. The way that they avoid predation is through creating chemical toxins, basically, that we are one of the predators, and so some and nobody argues this. Th- This I don't think there is a single human being on the planet that argues that some plants are poisonous. The most deadly toxins on earth, they're not spider venom, snake venom, they're [ __ ] plant toxins. So, looking at things like arsenic, which is a plant toxin, you begin to understand what's going on. Okay, so some plants are toxic. Now, the question is are all plants toxic? Is it just degrees of toxicity for human or are there really some plants that want to be eaten? Now, I'm differentiating between fruit and sort of the the base plant, the non-flowering part of the plant. So, then you've got if all plants are toxic, if. Interesting theory to me. If all plants are toxic and one of the ways that they react on the body is by breaking down that epithelial lining in your gut, that single cell membrane, that breaks, then things are able to go from the gut into the body, which they're not technically in the body as long as the epithelial lining is in place. So, and the reason that the um the immune system is there in the gut and I thought that this was one of those light bulb moments for me. The reason that the immune system is at the gut is because that's where [ __ ] cross the barrier into the body. It's like the passport control of the body. So people roll up, got to have some [ __ ] armed guards right there. You don't need them, you know, once people are already in because they've already been checked. But you need them right there. So you put the immune system there so they're ready to [ __ ] respond. Something gets through because that barrier is broken, that piece of material could be a dead piece of the bacteria that are supposed to be in your gut. Could be a random protein, whatever. Something gets through, your [ __ ] body triggers the immune system, it pounces on it. The immune system gets heightened. You can imagine if you're being invaded, the armed forces are going to be [ __ ] everywhere, guns blazing, shoot first, ask questions later. And that's what happens. And the the hypothesis goes, every bit of autoimmune disease, whether it's um psoriasis, whether it's the gut problems that you're having, whether it's multiple sclerosis, whether it's Parkinson's disease, the hypothesis is that that's all related to eating plants that are causing a problem. So because we have not gotten you back to perfect, I feel like we have to keep experimenting. Now I think there are two problems with your gut. We've run a lot of tests on your gut and there's no question your diversity of microbiome is low. So building that back up is far harder than people think. It has at least for you not been enough to just take a probiotic. So looking at what would be the next thing. So one, we need to find a way to increase the diversity in your microbiome. And then two, I think we at least have to run the experiment because we've never taken We've taken your vegetable intake to very near almost zero to zero, but we've never done carnivore. We've done zero vegetable, but we've never done true carnivore, nose to tail, eating everything, organ meat, all that stuff. So, if the principles that I just laid out are actually accurate, it would be from first principles, I can predict that it will work. Now, we won't know if it will actually work until we try it. So, but that's something I'm super keen to try. And we've spoken about this, because I know we've had guests on that have spoken endlessly about it. And for me, it's like I'm very open to it. Right now, I'm actually making great progress with my doctor, so I don't want to change anything while I'm still making progress. When I hit another wall, then I'll be very open to it. And I guess we've never even really laid out people maybe like, "So, what kind of dysbiosis does she have?" So, the things that we've um come to identify with me is I had SIBO, which is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which means that you've got an overgrowth of bacteria in your small intestines, both good and bad, which is not where you're supposed to have it. And if you people like, "Eat broccoli, eat sauerkraut, all that stuff that's good for you." It only feeds the bacteria in the wrong place. Because it's fermenting it, which creates a lot of gas. Correct. Yep. So, I had SIBO, which means I was going by a low FODMAP diet, which really helped. Leaky gut. I definitely had leaky gut. And then we had a guest on actually that started to talk about lectins. And this is why I love our show, because I'll be watching an episode and a guest will say something and it's like you just make take the advice and listen to it and see if it works for you and see if it doesn't. And I remember one of the guys that was on the show and he was talking about lectins. And he was explaining about the skin and then the seeds and why they exist. And here I am eating like eggplant like it's going out of fashion. Um tomatoes and um peppers. And I still couldn't identify why I was in pain, because I was like, "But I've been eating these for a while and I introduced them slowly and I'm fine, so there must be something else until he started explaining it. So, understanding what the food is doing to your body also helps. I'm like, "Actually, that makes sense cuz if I have leaky gut and I'm eating these lectins, well, that all makes sense." So, I cut out the lectins, it really helped. Um like I had a parasite which we found and um I can't take antibiotics to kill it off, so I'm actually now for the last 4 months I've been taking these herbal drops that I put in my tongue twice a day, morning and night. But all of these things I'm discovering by each individual thing. Like I'm trying something, seeing how it affects me. Um but yeah, so I just had to explain that like there's so much that we've been addressing. So, it's like these little things one by one, what's the order, being patient, being um religious about it as well, you know, because like if I want to get rid of the um the parasite and I'm only doing my drops half of the time, Right. well, then I haven't committed to it. So, committing to that new path as well is going to is very big deal, I think. Yes. So, one more time I just want to say that it has been absolutely breathtaking to watch you be so consistent over so many years, to not give up, to not throw your hands up and just quit, which I can only imagine how tempting it was to do that because it when everything you try ends the same way, it is very difficult to stay focused and keep pushing forward. And so, that's been super, super inspiring and I hope people take that away in your story and you've covered so much of it on your socials, which anybody that's going through anything that even rhymes with this should follow you um @LisaBillieu. Um and and backtracking, go back through some of the stuff and see all the before and afters you've done with the way that your physique changed when you couldn't eat, like you said your hair was falling out and your nails were brittle and it really challenged your identities of femininity and sexuality and you didn't feel sexy. I mean that like could do a whole another [ __ ] episode just around sort of the mental aspects of this game and so you know, seeing you push through that is has been really really impressive. Um like you said take the worst thing that's ever happened to you and find a way to make it the best thing and and to see you become stronger on the other side of that and more yourself and unafraid of what other people think and really focused on helping people is really really been inspiring to watch and I don't often have an excuse to just [ __ ] gosh. Um so I will take this in the hope that it inspires somebody else who's in the middle of it when you don't feel strong and you don't feel like continuing which I'm sure you didn't either but you just keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep going and keep going. You know, coming back to first principles. What's working? What's not? How do we eliminate? How do we predict? And just working our way through every person's own sort of individual thing trying to get to the the root cause and and that's the fix. So. Um the one thing I just want to add actually that you just mentioned that I didn't say earlier is this entire journey, everything we've been through for the last four years, the hardest thing really was my identity and it really was feeling like I I didn't feel sexy and you know, for me my identity definitely was and it it still is now. Like I want you to be attracted to me. I want you to like your eyes pop out of your head every time you see me and I want to be a nurturer and this like beautiful woman that you you know, that would you saw on the wedding our wedding day and I started to not feel like I was that anymore, right? And so just becoming okay with being that honest I think was one of the biggest steps that I took in order to start healing. Um and so that's one advice I give anyone at home whether you're a man or a woman or you know, just to be very honest, and if you have someone close to you that you can be that honest with that won't judge you, it helped me let go of that. Mhm. And then just focus on getting better. So. Word. This has been a lot of fun. I literally could keep going all day talking to you about this. Um and we do. We talk about this a lot, and hopefully people have gleaned a bunch of useful stuff from this. Uh we will definitely have to do part two as you continue to learn new things and make more progress. All right. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. I hope that you guys got a lot out of this cuz I would love to do more and more episodes with my beloved wife. Uh if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. Be sure to follow her at Lisa Bilyeu. And uh until next time, my friends. Be legendary. Take care. Thank you guys so much for watching and being a part of this community. 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