How To Put Yourself First Without Feeling Guilty - Nick Pollard

[Music] why is people pleasing such a trap for so many of us I there a there's a a long answer and a short answer I think the the short answer to that is that we have created an environment through social media really you know predominantly that everybody's now seeking to measure up to somebody else rather than you know focused on this internal locus of control where you can you can really be vibrant on your own um but way that we function now as a society is has changed that um and everybody's comparing themselves to people that you know are are insurmountable and I find myself doing this too so you know I worship at the altars of you know Alex Heros and you know James Smith and all these guys that I see you know millions of followers and make millions of dollars and they're exciting and they're fun and I'm like how do I get to that right rather than recognizing in myself like I can just be happy with where I am it doesn't it's I have a really great friend um who said this to me that really resonated with people pleasing which you don't have to hate where you are to want to be better and when I heard that I was like that makes so much sense and I think we've kind of taught people that you have to like almost hate the way that you show up in the world in order to want to better that and I just and I think that causes this idea of how do I measure up and then how do I make everyone else around me happy because that's that's really what the world is you know kind of built on these days yeah draw the line for me between that sense that we that we measure up but you know people pleasing isn't about us it's about optic management it's about how other people see us it's about prioritizing their needs over ours what why is that important what what's that got to do with it so I think it's um for me when it was you know when it was more of a problem and I I I would say that I'm a recovering people pleaser it's funny those things it's one of those things I don't think ever really goes away um I think you just kind of battle it but um mostly it's an overwhelming sense that you're not enough and when you're functioning from that place there's no way you can ever really measure up and and there's ways that you can tune that to make it better right so if you have something like that so if you you know have that kind of inferiority complex plus a superiority complex plus you know impulse control is a great example you can do great things but but if you just have this idea that I'm not enough and that's sort of the main track in the background then you're always trying to measure up to something that doesn't actually exist so and and so often this comes from you know it's kind of a pivot point where you have like one parent that was super involved in your life and then one parent that wasn't maybe they were abusive very similar to kind of the nice guy narrative where you you show up trying to gain Acceptance in love because the only and the only way you know how to do that is to either not show up like to be completely invisible um or to make everyone else happy right or to keep everyone else calm or to constantly be in a peace peacekeeping you know frame of mind and I think that's where people get really hung up that's the one of the typical childhood situations that people pleases would have very typical um you know I've got I've got one-on-one clients all over the world kind of coming from every um every background you know everything from CEO down to you know you know pick a position but um the thing that I would say is the most common is generally speaking one parent made it was an inment issue so one parent made that child the center of their world and then the other didn't so and so what that teaches them is that you know to make this other person happy means they won't get abandoned to if they don't get abandoned they'll get their needs met and then this kind of just plays out in childhood I forget who said it to me but it was um they called it a transference so like you developed a childhood coping strategy and you kept it all the way through your adulthood and now it's not serving you and nobody really knows what to do with that so then you have to figure out like what do I do now to make my life better what behaviors should we look out for that suggest you might be a people pleaser how would you uh get us to self- diagnose without sounding like a real son of a [ __ ] most of the time um people Pleasers are Li s and that's probably the most common denominator among all the people I've ever worked with is this dishonesty in um just and how they show up in general right so lying is one of the bigger things but you have to then identify what is a lie you know so saying yes when you mean to say no that's dishonest right committing to things you don't want to go to well that is also dishonest and so when I work with people and they and they kind of realize oh my God I lie all the time and it's not that you're lying to the person on purpose it's not in this kind of malicious way it's just you don't even recognize the damage you're doing to your own well-being and then all of the sudden you have no free time that's one of the things that you can look for is like are you lacking free time like is your calendar always full if you're constantly doing that are you low on money because other people have needs right right um are you prioritizing the wants and needs of other people above your own well that's virtuous in many ways right but again it's like balance if you constantly do that and never prioritize yourself then what ends up happening to you is you're you're broke you're alone you feel miserable um one of the things that I used to say is that I never got invited to barbecues when I was people pleaser like my friends would have parties and I'd never get invited to those things they'd want to hang out with me for lunch at the office right or they'd want me to help them do something but they they never really engaged with me and so I think one of the core components that I see with people is that if they're truly in that people pleasing mind frame they have a lack of connected relationship because it's it's just a masking Ian in in many ways it's similar to narcissism in that way is that you can't really get to know that person which is why so the way I found you was you had kept ident identifying yourself as a people pleaser and I'm like ah you don't come off that way to me then oh intered you've got a a [ __ ] radar that's searching for people pleases on the internet no look I mean very much self- diagnosed uh I'm fascinated by your work it's been something you know I've spent a lot of time this year reflecting on that um I tend to put other people's needs before mine and in many ways in many ways that can be seen as considerate caring uh altruistic you bring people and um you know this must be I guess even the the real gateway drug at the top of the Avalanche is well lots of the things that you're talking about when done by uh when done consciously uh and effortfully come from a place of virtue and they're good for the world in many ways but when you're compelled to do them when you don't have any other choice than to do them it takes away a lot of The Virtue and it also doesn't allow you to ever advocate for your your own needs Joe Hudson at the start of this year I know that you'll agree with this he said if I can't trust your no I can't trust your yes and oh my God yes wow I love that quote I've never heard that Joe's Joe's a [ __ ] he's a beast um but yeah the fact that you're not saying yes to going to the party or your friend's wedding you simply cannot say no and I'm not I you know on the gradation of of uh [ __ ] nuclear fallout from a people pleaser I'm nowhere near as I'm not like uh you know the elephant's fot inside of [ __ ] Chernobyl but um it's it's there's definitely a lot of those Tendencies inside of me to put other people's needs before mine to not advocate for my own needs to subjugate uh my own discomfort in order to not make somebody else uncomfortable this sense that if you're not okay I'm not okay uh that your emotional state is my responsibility and um you know I I mean this this only came out kind of during therapy where my therapist sort of mentioned to me you seem to sort of put other people's needs before yours a lot and you're kind of prepared to suffer unnecessarily uh even though you could probably stop this but the stopping it would cause a little bit of discomfort but you're prepared to avoid a little bit of discomfort and just spread a metric [ __ ] ton across you know days and months and years and um yeah that's my that's my self diagnosis I suppose okay so maybe I was [Laughter] wrong um yeah I mean perhaps I was that's that's the whole thing um so you you spoke two things that are really interesting is the value of your no uh I want to just touch on that something I've said a lot of is that it most people who have this kind of tendency aren't afraid to say no they're afraid to not say yes and so because that yes is what gives them that dopamine Rush that that feeling of like I did it like everybody loves me everybody wants me and then so it's that not saying yes like you could you could just say the word Li of beans and it's going to make you feel like [ __ ] um so it's it's not even the no and one of the ways I I show people how to do that is um I give you a little secret from one of my boundary boot camps but um spend seven days saying no to everything everything just do you want to go out to lunch no do you want to hang out on Saturday no do you want to help me with my work project no right the answer is just no um and there's rules to the game the rules are you know you have to do it for seven days you can tell everybody you're playing you literally you can illuminate it to everyone doesn't have to be a secret um and then you can change your mind after 90 seconds oh but you have to sit with the discomfort of the no for a minute and a half well yeah and it also does two things so it it it changes the value system in your brain at least it did for me where I was like okay well no doesn't really actually hurt that much so I stopped being afraid of the word no um but it also gave me the idea that I could well then I can think about what I'm trying to do like do I want to actually do that because you know when you're a peopling kind of person so and I and I do want to draw the line at some point that you know being agreeable and being a people pleaser are not the same um you know I generally don't care about much stuff so there's that but when you start saying no you go okay well now my calendar's free and I can actually do stuff that I want to do and I can say you know I really don't want to go to that party and then you don't change your mind right but you change your default answer from a yes to a no and then that default becomes something that you can do which is why the the fourth rule is you can only play the game for seven days because if I learned anything from James Clear it's not about how long you practice something it's the repetitions by which you do that and you're going to repeat that action hundreds of times in a week what was the second thing that you wanted to click on from what I said um the second now I've forgotten that's okay uh going back so I I really wanted I I have something that's more important uh the fact that people please are liars um that there is a sense of inauthenticity um a malleability app pliability that you have uh which means that you're not telling the truth and you know it's it's uncomfortable because again you're saying that I should do something that upsets people more than something that's nice it's like well kind if it's not the truth if it's not genuinely what you believe then which one's more virtuous and uh if it's not coming from a place of genuine care uh and like you speaking forward what you actually want it is a lie like yeah you can wrap it up however you want and and say that it makes the world better and that it's coming it's because of compassion and all the rest of it it's like it's a [ __ ] lie dude right well and so if somebody was to come to you um let's pretend you're you're IC to peanuts right and somebody says do you want peanuts well and it might hurt their feelings if you don't eat the peanuts are you gonna eat the peanuts probably not right because it'll kill you but so if if that's the case when you think of anything that you you dislike or genuinely don't want to do it it's in it's almost in the same vein because on a long enough timeline it kills your ability to experience joy and happiness and authenticity and then you know and so often I hear it like how do I find myself well so one of the Core Concepts you you'd mentioned you know psychology before and I'm not a psychologist you know I'm just a person who's been through this and something I see in a lot of my clients is that they they've either didn't have a ton of play in childhood or you know so they were kind of caretakers or or meeting the needs of their parents Etc or they've forgotten how to play an adulthood and because what we find is that you know if you don't play and you and you don't learn then you can't um self-define if you can't self-define then you lose kind of a scope of who you are so I actually believe you know people Pleasers struggle with the idea of self-identity very often um and they're always asking me like how do I find myself my advice is never do that never ever find yourself constantly invent the new version of you and through self-invention you find more joy you have to do that through play yeah talk to me about this sort of L between play self-invention self-identity how does this fit together so I I think I figured it out there's a relatively new development for me I I have made an effort in the last 12 months to be more playful and because I kind of lost all my Whimsy you've started a business you know what I'm going through I'm in year three of this thing it's a [ __ ] disaster time right I'm constantly lighting myself on fire um and then trying to put myself out with kerosene it's really great but so I really made a commitment to myself that I was going to do more playful stuff and I was watching kids in the park the other day and I'm watching them play and it occurred to me that they're not just playing to the adult like to you and I when we see kids play what do we see we see just fun and you know they're on the jungle gym and they're and they're doing the thing um whatever they happen to be doing and they're going to get hurt and they're going to do whatever but they're not playing they're learning they're discovering through play like what are their boundaries what can they physically tolerate what do they like what don't they like and they do that by playing with each other and then very often they're they're putting on personas of who they want to be right so you you know one kid wants to be Iron Man one guy wants to be a fireman one little girl wants to be a princess somebody else wants to be something else right and and through that idea of like self-invention that's how they start to form the idea of like what is their their definition of self and I think adults don't play enough to continue that self-invention process so they lose contact with that core kid um where they're like okay well now who am I well I don't know you haven't spent any time inventing that yeah that's very interesting uh I've been thinking an awful lot recently about trying to find more fun in the things that I do and um this sort of balance between joy and meaning uh I kind of have it in my head that there's broadly two buckets of people one are more he s and the other are David Goggins and lots of people lots of people that listen to this podcast will probably fall into the ladder category they're people who like to take things seriously they're Earnest about their work uh they apply effort they're rigorous they pay attention uh they're prepared to you know marshmallow test their way until the end of time but as Bill Perkins says delayed gratification in the extreme results in no gratification and more than that not only do you continue to to sort of Manana Manana put off all of the things that you're going to do to a time that never comes you end up you end up forgetting the reason that you're supposed to do these things you're not doing hard things so you can do more hard things so you can do more hard there has to be a point at which an inherent good comes through which is some sense of joy and play and lightness and you end up being sort of very very rigid and brittle in a very strange way you're sort of stiff with the way that you go about things you're not prepared to be flexible you're not prepared to take on adventures in the same way your adventures need to be [ __ ] planned your holiday needs a massive itinerary and you need to make sure that you work twice as hard before you leave so you don't feel like a piece of [ __ ] when you're there and you know all of this sort of comes together so uh yeah the the sense of play certainly resonates with me uh or the the the lack thereof um the difficulty in finding Joy I'm going to guess it typically do you find with people please as your clients people that you've spoken to that uh finding joy in life is something that they often find difficulty with tremendous difficulty um and it comes from so often anyway I think it shows up in a ton of these guys and girls as like giving to themselves feels inappropriate it feels so they they're kind of racked with shame it's in the same way that so people pleasing very often can mirror addiction um in terms of you know i' would say it's north star which is shame um so when you're trying to make everyone around you happy you're basically kind of always in this modality of trying to appease this inner voice that says I'm not good enough I'm not enough which is toxic shange like I'm bad I'm no good right rather than I did bad you are B and when you're always trying to prove yourself as better that means deep at your core what is it what do you believe it means that I'm not enough right well asking the addict why that there you know nobody wakes up in the morning goes [ __ ] great I'm going to do some heroin today like nobody's excited about that why do they do it it's to bury this feeling of of toxicity in themselves um and then it just kind of spirals out of control so when you're talking about somebody that is that experiences almost a total inability to give to themselves before they give to everyone else um yeah it's really hard to find joy you know for me God I I would have this story it was I was I was in Roofing sales this is years ago and um I've heard a lot of your by the way on everybody should have a door knocking job or a club promoter job I fully agree with that sentiment um because I'm not afraid of rejection in any way shape or form but um that's probably a lie anyway going back to to the ideas you know here I was I was I had I just gotten out of Rehabilitation you know I'd sobered up and I'd done all the things you know my story is a pretty dark one and um I was standing in in a warehouse store um looking at televisions and I was crying like because I couldn't force myself to do this thing for and I and I had the money this wasn't like something I had to go and you know take out a credit card for I I sitting on plenty of cash and my bills were paid and my rent was paid for the gear and I mean I was good and there I stood just you know sobbing because I couldn't make myself by myself this present because it didn't serve the purpose of making other people happy and I did this for weeks weeks like weeks on end I would just go stand there and be like I can't pull the trigger and finally um I went to my own therapist and and he said to me you know you could just stop being a coward to buy the [ __ ] TV and I was like okay I go want to buy it and um I made him strap it to the car before I I swiped my credit card so I couldn't turn back um and I think that was that was really the first time I noticed it in myself really so this is back in 2019 when I really went wow I have a real challenge with experiencing Joy I have a bigger problem with experiencing celebration I have a huge problem with asking for what I need and then once I do that I have a bigger problem with receiving it so all of these components I started to put it together I'm like wow that sucks like that's a really terrible way to live your life mhm yeah permanently making yourself the second or third or fourth priority oh yeah after everybody else so just dig in a little bit more to the real costs of being a people pleaser why why is it a bad thing what does it do to your you mentioned well-being earlier on what does it do to the pleaser themselves so the it de prioritizes a lot of things so um I I'd say the first is your physical well-being will take a back SE to everybody else's needs and so the first thing I started to do was get in shape um and I i' been listening to your show for years now and every single person that comes on says yeah everything changed for me when I get shape so here's one right I'll be the 7,000th person to say that on this show um so the first thing I noticed was that um I had been deep prioritizing the really the core of what my body needs so I was poorly because I didn't have enough time to cook for myself I was um you know I wasn't going to the gym I wasn't you know taking yoga classes I wasn't stretching I wasn't meditating I wasn't doing any of any of the cool [ __ ] I do now um so that's kind of the first thing is that you notice that your health is suffering so the second um and probably more important is that your emotional well-being takes a hit every day like you always kind of feel like you're behind the eightball in um where you're going I used to it was really weird for me but I never felt like I could catch up to anybody um so I think you're 35 I'm 44 um if I was in a room with you I would feel like I was younger than you and I have no idea why that was like everybody was a Titan to me everybody was better than me and I was constantly drawing to measure up so when you think of what that does to your mental health and just puts you in a position that you always feel like you're in the Lurch and you can never be what you want to be and then financially it'll ruin you you know I would give away I would give away money to my mom I'd give away money to my girlfriend I'd give away money to anybody that needed it and I'm watching my bank account dwindle and I'm bailing people out of jail and I'm doing everything I can to make everybody else's life easier because I thought that's what it meant to get love and so when you consider the implications of how over a long timeline how it will impact you it will literally take your life away if the average people pleaser that I work with is is either at or about to be burnt out at 38 like completely burned out and it's really kind and now very often they'll burn out and they can continue to keep going because well they have responsibility and they have you know so entrepreneurs are really great at this um we're awesome people Pleasers very often because we get to a place where like the customers always right um and we're trying to make money in that first three years especially where you really have to have boundaries you really have to know what you're doing um if you aren't careful you can go down that road really quickly but um people that have high levels of success as people Pleasers generally are burnt out and they're just kind of burying it and their misery is growing and their income is rising and they're like why aren't I getting happy why aren't I getting happy why aren't I getting happy and the paychecks get bigger and the and and it just keeps expanding so it's like it's like that foam you see that they make and you know have you ever seen this stuff um where they make this like super foam and they pour it out goes go yeah Garden yeah yeah I have seen that that's that's kind of what I feel like people pleasing does is that it it starts out as this small problem but it becomes very explosive toward the end and then what you see is somebody with No Boundaries no a self image that's generally pretty flawed um or wildly inaccurate it um you see people that are depressed um that are you know kind of and they'll come to me and say you know I'm I'm living in my own misery I'm like well stop like just don't do that anymore and and they look at me like that's possible yeah you can choose to not do this um and it's I think the biggest challenge is is overcoming the idea too that um the opposite of people pleasing isn't being an [ __ ] um I think there's this there's it's this polarized thinking that you know you see it in American politics a lot you see it in we seen in America a lot um and you know it's like it's either left or right right or wrong black or white and it's not that you know so people pleasing or assle right you know why would you try and find the Tipping Point between two wildly toxic extremes um they're on the same through line they both come from I'm a not enough so move up to I'm enough and then you let's see where you land how can someone distinguish between being considerate and sacrificing their identity to please others I knew you were going to ask me that and I still don't know how to answer it but I'm going to give it I'm going to give it my best shot cool um I think the way that I distinguish it is by the emotion itself so when I give to somebody from a place of of love and that can be anything whether I'm buying my girlfriend flowers or whether I'm taking my kid to the park or whatever um there's a sense of Peace in that and sometimes I want to do it sometimes I don't but there's still but that overwhelming sense of Peace in being um giving is real for and and I think that's real for all people right I think generosity is is probably one of my you know if it's not my North Star it's probably in the in the top three right and so I think there's this beauty and generosity and being authentic about that when I find myself in the pleasing modality there usually is something bubbling behind it like most people know when they're doing something wrong like you can feel it it's like the minute that resentment hits you you need to correct course and for me resentment in the body just shows up like right here in my solar plex something [ __ ] why am I having to do this right and if I start hearing that narrative in my mind and I've trained my mind to hear it now it's like maybe I need to not you know do that the other thing that I I I think you can really do to determine this is is put space between your decision giving so if you make a decision like I'm gonna give you know 500 bucks to the waitress because that's a cool thing to do at Christmas or whatever right that's fine right that's perfectly normal you're you're never going to see that person again they're not going to be pleased with you for eternity but like when you're ready to give to somebody you love give yourself an hour give yourself a day to ask the question like what am what is the purpose of this am I doing this for the reasons that are are genuine and generous and kind and loving or am I doing this because I need validation is there a difference you mentioned it earlier on guys and girls that you work with talk to me about the difference in how men and women show up with their people pleasing nature is it motivated differently does it present in different manners is the framing uh different in any way I'd say it's similar I I don't know that it's I don't know that there's a wild difference it's one of those really interesting things that it's um between the masculine and feminine I don't know that um I don't know that I could pinpoint like a major difference so much as I would say there's there's different ways of recognizing it um women tend to be you know they they're so I've never met a people pleaser that wasn't angry I've never met a people pleaser that wasn't a liar and I've never met a people pleaser that wasn't aggressive or passive aggressive women tend to be more passive aggressive on this side so the one thing that I can say about you know and I I'm weirdly my my practice will shift it does this weird thing like I'll have guys and then it will stop and then I'll have girls and then it will stop I don't know why it does this um but it does and right now I'm working with mostly women but what I find mostly in women is they tend to externalize it as a problem of everyone else where men tend to internalize it as I'm a piece of [ __ ] yeah that's interesting um so women will say to me a lot like if I could only get this person to do this thing I would be able to set boundaries I'm like no like maybe set boundaries and then if they don't do the thing let's move on from that whereas men are like I'm such a piece of [ __ ] I can never set so I wonder yeah I was I was thinking about this uh I wonder whether there's an extra level of Shame for men around being pliable you know you're supposed to be this sort of rigid stoic self-sufficient pillar of the community or your relationship or your friendship or your family or whatever it might be and um that's not to say that women shouldn't have a backbone as well obviously they should but the level of assertiveness that we just expect dispositionally for men tends to be higher men on average are more disagreeable etc etc etc and um regardless of whether or not the actual manifestation of it is more or less acceptable I think the story that men tell themselves around their pability uh I think that there's perhaps some additional levels of shame in that I would fully agree with that um I think it shows I think it rears its ugly head in a lot of ways um and one of you know potentially one of the biggest most toxic ones is insexual um you know the unfortunate news about being a man in this day and age especially one that happens to look talk and act like me um is that I have no voice I and if I do then I'm I'm also a piece of [ __ ] but if I don't I'm also a piece of [ __ ] there's no way to win um in in this you know present environment but I think the Mana spere isn't helping um by any stretch of the imagination I think this idea of like everybody has to be stoic and if you're not you know self-denying yourself and if you're not you know again to your point of like if I'm not deferring my gratification then you know why even show up and it's you know if I don't if I don't make $300 million a year I may as well just you know hang myself it's just it's all of these kind of giant narratives where it's it's the loudest craziest people on every spectrum that get the most notoriety and um so I don't think that's helping but um I think you're I think you're touching on something that's very interesting is that we've redefined masculine as this toxic trait and meanwhile if we don't function in our masculine we're considered toxic so most or useless right it's either useless or toxic so [Music] most of my male people Pleasers you know when I when I look into that genre you're going to find that Dr Glover and I you know Robert Glover um function in the same realm is you know the male version of a people polier was a nice guy and very often nice guys were raised in you know predominantly female environments where you know Mom was in control dad was generally either not around available semicolon however or or you know in this sphere of abuse or some other awful thing which is part of my story and um so I think to find those guys and tell them they're okay like this is okay like it's just you struck on something that's like deep in my heart so I'm trying to get this to to articulate and it's not quite working because I spent my entire life being ashamed of who I was as a man and then when I wasn't I was pissed yeah like because because I was because now wounded right now I'm like yeah I spent my whole life not thinking women liked me I spent my whole life not thinking I was good enough I spent my whole life climbing a ladder I didn't want to climb like I did all this crap for everyone else and I became a resentful angry drunk addicted piece of [ __ ] I didn't know what to do with with it right there's nobody and you've said it before and you know I've said it a million times is that I I truly believe that um psychology as it exists today is not built for men it just doesn't I don't need you to tell me I'm okay I don't need to cry on your shoulder that's not what I need um for somebody to just say hey maybe like let's look for some purpose let's do something else um has been so helpful but yeah I I don't know if that answers your question I I understand this sort of uh threading of a needle between we want men to be strong but we also want them to open up men want to be understood and they want their suffering to be recognized but they also don't want to be panded to or treated with kid gloves and this a really difficult balance to strike it's superbly difficult balance to strike because you don't want to patronize guys because that's going to switch them off but the line between not patronizing and ignoring is actually perilously pretty close uh and then that speaks into that that that speaks into all of the fears that every guy has about well if I open up I'm going to be shunned by my girlfriend or my wife or Society I'm not going to be seen as a a competent man so I'll just swallow it down but I'm also told that if I don't do that and I also have the sense as well that that's probably not super healthy for me from a psychological standpoint I feel like I should be able to you know feel Joy and feel fear and feel pain and feel scared and feel excited and I I want to embrace all of these things but in order to do that I need to concede the entire spectrum of human emotions and if I do that then I'm at the mercy of them and being at the mercy of them doesn't have the Mastery and control and Conquer of your inner landscape that is typically so it's messy it's messy and um you know this it's endlessly fascinating to me to kind of try and unpack this and and hopefully um I don't know lay out some sort of a path or I don't know at least like some way markers of like here's some interesting things that guys can think about or that girls can think about for the way that they show up with the the men that are in their lives and uh yeah that extra degree of sh around being pliable for men I I I think is is going to be something that they'll feel quite acutely I think that [Music] um well here's a here's a sound bite for you that'll probably get me canceled um I love it um women are not equipped to handle male emotion um and men are very often not equipped to handle female emotion unless and and this is you know this of course is unless you're exceptionally well trained but I don't take my big feelings to the women in my life so one of the things that you can look for if you're wondering like am I a people pleaser count on one hand how many guy friends you have if you're a guy and girl friends you have if you're a girl if that numberers less than three you've got a problem because people Pleasers almost universally struggle to connect with the same sex why shame um learning to open up to somebody that isn't trying to uh so women tend to feel more safe with men if they're in that people pleasing mindset men tend to feel more safe with women if they're in that people pleasing mindset I don't know why that is I would love to you know I should probably ask Scott Galloway or Dr Glover why the hell that happens but um I need two men smarter than me to answer that but the but that's just you know the pattern that I see and I haven't had a client in the last five years that was like had a ton of meaningful guy friendships I haven't had the same is with women I'm I still struggling a little bit to understand despite the fact of being the recipient of it why it's so hard for certain people to advocate for their own needs we would think from a evolutionary psychology adaptive survival and reproduction perspective advocating for your own needs should be the first thing that you do maybe up until you've got a a partner and kids like after that yeah okay perhaps there is something that's even more important than you CU that's your genetic progeny or your family going forward uh I'm just trying to work out why it becomes so difficult to make our needs known and to advocate for our own desires I think there's a component of rejection um um so you get to a place where you've kind of advocated for everyone else long enough and you don't know how so then you you face this idea of you know if I ask Will I even receive um where I think you get as you start to heal from this you know profoundly challenging way to live is um you stop worrying so much about that and say okay well I'm going to ask for what I need and if I don't get it I'm going to give it to myself um so there's there's that but I think the the advocacy it the rejection to somebody who lives like this doesn't feel like rejection it feels like abandonment and you're going have forgive me because I hadn't said that I don't think I realized that till you asked that question you're good at this Chris um um and I'm a little emotional about it because the biggest fear that I see in in that people pleasing set when I when I talk about things like setting boundaries is everybody's going to be mad at me everybody's going to hate me um and when I hear that um I hear my own um I hear that part of me that was a little kid that just wanted to be loved and accepted and I just wanted to make friends and um I struggled with that you know mightily most of my life so I think it's I think the advocacy of self presents a a really big challenge because it's probably the scariest thing you can do is to say I need something and when you're a kid and you don't get it and then you learn to ask um is dangerous um or could get me abandoned um or you know to stand up for myself means the bully gets bigger not goes away right um I think that's where that comes from certainly the pattern of simply not being used to it not thinking that your needs are valid uh definitely you know thinking if if you grew up in a household where it was difficult for you to communicate transparently maybe parents didn't communicate very transparently there was a lot of passive aggression or Shadow sentences people didn't say what they meant they said a thing and hoped that the other person would arrive at the thing that they meant and then resent them if they didn't right uh at what point have you got the training for it so you know for all for me to say you know to try it seems very strange that we wouldn't be able to advocate for ourselves we're the first person and you go well I guess so but what it really show shows is just how far from Center your life has sort of taken you that you don't even think that advocating for your own needs is something that you should prioritize and um I imagine as well that there must come a stage or the more heavily ingrained people Pleasers they must get themselves to a situation where they've people pleased for so long that they don't actually know their own opinion or what they believe or what they want like advocating for a needs is tough if you've subjugated them for so long that you have no idea what they are anymore yeah it's it's really hard to come back from in that way like if you do it long enough um so and this is it's interesting you you come to that because we talked a little bit about you know what is the difference between agreeableness and people pleasing um well at some point you just become agreeable to everything because you you it's not that you don't care it's that you don't know right so um if you ask me on a Tuesday do you want to go out and get tacos or do you want to go out and get pizza I I'm not going to give [ __ ] either the way like I I like food and both those sound great right so that's what agreeable means to me it's like I'm happy to just go along go with flow from time to time because I don't care right but when you do that because you don't like want to be the issue of the moment um and you do that long enough you're right you you don't have a sense of like what what do I even like pizza um when was the last time I you know I had an opinion on on God forbid Donald Trump or or you know Joe Biden when was the last time I actually spoke up for myself Um this can be hugely powerfully painful at work um you know especially if you're if you've done the corporate environment like I have you know I was a corporate sales monkey for years and um I would I was always number two never number one that was always interesting um because I didn't want to get I I wanted to be seen I didn't want to be that seen right um and I never stood up for for what was right I never stood up for what I believed and and you know the eventuality was I burned out in Corporate America and I'm I'm pretty talented guy um I just couldn't do it anymore so yeah I think that think o over I think that line gets really blurry um and that's probably one of the first things to go in terms of your self-image is your ability to form opinion um and I mean I can't put it on a I couldn't like delineate a timeline like if you started at 16 by the time you're 24 you won't have an opinion anymore but I would say that like the first thing you probably start to feel is I don't know what my interests are and I don't know what my opinions are and there's really only way to find that out is to you know do some journaling and go try some fit yeah it's a particularly it feels like a particularly unfair cuss to know that maybe you've begun to see the light you've realized that I need to be more assertive I need to stand up for myself and then when you think well what does that what am I standing up for what is myself presumably there's some concoction of of things that I want well what do I want and you don't know and you realize that the reason you don't know is because you buried it under layers and layers and layers of appeasing others as opposed to appeasing yourself uh and prioritizing others as opposed to prioritizing yourself and you think well I I know that I kind of need to do this thing and I don't even I'm in a [ __ ] dark jail cell and I don't even know which way which direction the door is to get out to begin to think about my [ __ ] escape plan so yeah I um I think about that a lot I realized toward the end of my 20s that you know I'd uh I'd spent a lot of time trying to do whatever I thought I needed to do in order to be able to make other people like me so when somebody asked me a question I wouldn't think what do I think about this thing I'd think what does Nick need to hear in order for him to have the best impression of me and the you know there's a million problems with that but one of the biggest ones is that you never actually feel connected to any of your successes or uh any of the praise that you receive because oh God that's a big one yeah any positive reinforcement that you get is not somebody seeing you that just applauding this role that you play they're saying hey well done for doing the little dance that you did that is not you it isn't you so I would say you know maybe another at least uh from my past experience one of the identifying factors is do you feel connected to the successes that you do or do they feel like somebody else did them sort of on your behalf that is um that is a question I'm GNA steal from uh you I'm taking that um so um I've I've drawn that line but I've never asked the question that way where I can see you know I'm working with a really great um CEO now and fascinating dude um and this something that's really interesting in that vein that I want to come back to is how how interesting people Pleasers actually are but um the he says to me all the time well you know I just got lucky right I just got lucky it couldn't have been the 25 years of toil it couldn't possibly have been that you have the mind for the work it couldn't possibly have been that you're talented right um and I I fall into that trap a lot myself still so and I've mentioned you like this is not something that you it's not like I say in my videos very often that I'm a recovered alcoholic I don't know that I'll ever actually recover from this I think this is just a thing that I do it's like everybody has their thing that they have to deal with in life um and if you listen to you know whatever personal growth literature that you may you know tend to absorb but you know my very favorite one is Scott peek you know he started with the line life is difficult and it's and it remains difficult Until you realize it's difficult and then you don't care that it's difficult so it's no longer difficult so but this is the difficulty of my life this is the thing that I'm GNA I'm gonna overcome for you know years to come and I hope that I can teach my children to overcome and and all those well you said uh you know you said people pleases are interesting and I I I would agree uh not being [ __ ] fellating myself here but um I think the reason is that you know they've got the only way that you can a people pleaser is if you have some sense of depth uh you you are a deep thinker in one form or another you care you know very much about others uh you have an amount of empathy um you have social sort of agility in a way that uh if deployed correctly could be really really [ __ ] useful really powerful it can make the world a better place so it doesn't it doesn't surprise me that you know you get fascinated by these people that you get to meet and um this Thomas Soul quote which I can't stop thinking about even though I'm known it for ages it just it becomes more true the longer I think about it which is there are no Solutions only tradeoffs and you may sort of scream at the sky and shake your fist and say if only I could have this thing without this thing and you go well what if both of those things come together what if that is kind of like a single meal as opposed to ingredients that you can make a dish from and uh I get the sense that you know a lot of people if they can start to transcend and include alchemize the more pathological parts of their people pleasing nature what they're left with is probably the things that they care most about themselves that they love most in themselves I love that you said that um it goes back to that thing we were talking about you know and I and I've played with an idea that's also interesting that I wonder if people pleasing and narcissism aren't on the same through line but the the beautiful parts of you don't have to die for the toxic parts to go away so it's like when people see you know they say so I've heard you say you know I'm I'm a people pleaser I'm struggling people pleasing and like okay well I don't experience you that way now I've heard some of the backstory I might have been incorrect but the the generosity the kindness the the loving way you show up the the joyful part of you that actually gets fulfillment and and um levels up by giving that's awesome like that's beautiful that's that's it's Humanity like that's the good [ __ ] right but to allow the self-deprecation to go away right to allow the self-deprivation to go away to look at yourself not as a problem but as having a set of problems and then solving each one you know through a long enough timeline you get to keep all those things you love about yourself you don't have to turn into an [ __ ] you just get off that line it's like if you're driving head on at a bus just steer just turn you'll be fine um and it I think that's Maxwell maltz is is probably was one of the first real books that I ever engag it's called psycho cybernetics I don't know if you ever read that one I've heard of it I I've never read it though it it's been a while so you know this is going to be clunky and probably wrong but his equation of humans is that we're all kind of Servo mechanisms like guided missiles and missiles don't actually guided missiles don't actually aim at a Target they aim away from not the target so when you just start to realize okay well I'm not on target so just okay aim away from not on target and then you're going to course correct your way to you know a pretty happy life just taking good care of yourself and getting in shape and um you know starting to eat well you always the first thing I work with my clients on is like all right let's go to the gym um let's get some of the anger out of your body like Pleasers are pissed historically over over every person ever they're just mad right because their life hasn't gone the way they wanted it to go well it's not gonna unless you do something about it so get some of the anger out we get them in shape we start to build up on this idea of like how do I make make more money and and you start to see life improve um yeah I don't I don't know if I answered the question here I got lost in my own brain let's uh let's move down from the sort of first physical practices stepping in on diet presumably sleep training blah blah blah how psychologically in terms of reframing in terms of the sort of um uh psychological tactics and strategies what are the first steps that you get to take people through when it comes to their Rehabilitation it's probably better as a as a as a relatively small demonstration but if I say to you like I say Chris you're not enough what do you feel physically when I say that to you uh like uh closing over shoulders come forward feels right so you kind of feel it in your chest you feel it in your shoulders right the first thing you need to do is is learn to sit with that learn to just sit in that feeling and ask it questions like your emotions are not fact they're just in there um and they come from you know experiences they come from your past and you know I could probably iterate a million different personal growth books on that but once you just feel it and you say okay so now I know what that feels like the next question is what does it mean what am I actually saying to myself at this moment so if if anybody's listening whatever that thing is that you hear in your head there's always a [ __ ] story that plays around your like I'm not smart enough I didn't get enough schooling you know there a million ways you can tell yourself you're a piece of [ __ ] pick pick the one that's most meaningful and then just say it to yourself in the mirror and let yourself feel it and then wherever that shows up just ask it the question what it what are you like are you real are you is this some where did you come from and get curious about these things like if you get we tend to We tend to judge our negative emotions by calling them negative emotions I I don't think there's a positive negative I can tell you for sure that I can remember the first time I ever was going to kiss a girl I know exactly what that felt like I also remember the first time I thought I was going to die I remember exactly what that felt like they're earily similar so you know kind of butterflies in the stomach that's where I get anxiety that's where I feel it so now I feel that I okay what are you are you excitement are you fear are you anxiety and it'll and generally I'll get an answer okay where did you come from and it'll say well you know you're going on Chris's show it's the biggest show you've ever been on Nick you know you sure this isn't what we're supposed to be doing yet like you should have four million followers before you go on that damn thing U by the way this is a reiteration from this morning and so as I've kind of dealt with that today that's how I I take other people through it too is just kind of learning to sit in the darkness um the other thing that I I really would stress is that there has never been a people police I've ever met that was created in a vacuum so getting around other people that are kind of dealing with this is vital it's and it's so much more fun because I I you know I said it earlier people Pleasers are super interesting like they forget that they have all these weird hobbies and they're quirky and you know you get them laughing and talking about who they are and you find these vibrant exciting humans that are just waiting to be Unleashed and you know here they are in a cage that's unlocked just open the door fly the [ __ ] away um so I think to to answer your question in a long form is the first thing is learning to sit in the emotion and recognize it um because it really is emotion-based it's that feeling you get when you feel like you're not enough is the thing you have to look out for and it's the thing that will sabotage you the fastest is that is that feeling of insufficiency for you the sort of root cause that then the people pleasing nature is born out of yes yeah for me yeah you know for most of the people I work with yes um because you're trying to you're trying to squelch that like that feeling when you felt like your shoulders were hunched forward and you kind of like I could see it on you that you were like I don't like that that doesn't feel good it feel it it almost reverts you to being a child right you looked as though I had scolded you and it probably felt as though I had scolded you and what are you going to do with that feeling except for go well [ __ ] how do I I make that go away right how do I make you like me again right so when you can sit in that and get used to it and then start to get curious about when it shows up you know that's been the gift for me in this is not that I cured it it's that I'm curious about it so it shows up and I'm like what's that like this morning when I'm I I had to take a f mile walk just to get out of my head um you know and I'm almost fanboyed when you got oh my God that's you and so I take this walk and I'm like what am what am I what am I worrying about like this is either going to go greater it's not like there's nothing I can do you know I'm not a [ __ ] I'm gonna be fine um what am I really worried about and and here I was you know back in that in that mindset like well what if he doesn't like me well what if it'll be what it's going to be um and it was me sitting sitting on the capital steps at at um here in Denver um on the Mile High Step there's a step right there that's a mile high exactly I like to go sit on that when I'm kind of thinking and it was there I was like okay what am I what am I believing about this I'm believing if I don't show up then I'm a piece of [ __ ] like if I don't if I don't do this right then it's GNA be the last podcast I'm ever on and then like okay how am I reinforcing that belief Nick well I'm sitting here pondering this over and over and over again and ruminating in my brain like a psychopath and having conversations with myself on the street like the other people that are around here and it's not looking good for me like they're probably going to lock me away and then it was like okay well you know these four questions have saved my life a million times you know what do I want to believe about this well no matter what happens I'll be okay and I'm okay like I'm I don't have to be enough I don't have to be good enough I don't have to be bad enough just have to be okay and then what do I want to do and it was okay well I really want a piece of Taffy and I want to have a peligrino and then want to get on the show um and that's what I did I just got myself a and because my brain is going to tell me what I want your brain's actually really smart you listen to it um and it was like you know let's have a piece of candy and and relax and you know be a kid for 10 seconds and let's get on the show and have some fun with Chris and we'll see what happens um Dr Glover was funny about this I told him I was coming on the show and I was afraid of it like you know and he says um what are you afraid of I said well what if I screw it up and he goes well you're going to like oh okay great so now what he goes listen learn to laugh have more fun make mistakes and enjoy yourself and that's what I'm doing and I was able to do that by reaching out to you know my my team my men that I work with and and to you know kind of talk myself through this this danger zone what are the other two questions you said that those four questions that have got you through a lot of things so the four questions are so when you get that feeling where you're hunching forward right the first question is what am I believing so our beliefs Drive our Behavior our Behavior creates our environments we need to be very careful about what we're believing especially in a moment like that right so the first question is what am I believing very often it's come back in some iteration of I'm not enough right whatever iteration that could be you know maybe I'm not smart enough maybe I didn't go to Harvard maybe you know doesn't matter it's the whole thing it'll come back in some way or another cord of the kind of the really interesting thing about beliefs is that they have to be reinforced somehow um so you have you know an experience which is the feeling you're having and then you have to reinforce it um so you're the only one that can reinforce it it has to be reinforced by somebody in a position of authority so if you're bias by yourself then you're you are that Authority and so you have to ask yourself the next question question number two which is how am I reinforcing this belief system like what am I doing or not doing that's making me feel that I am not enough and you'll get an answer to that right what am I doing or not doing um question number three is um what would I prefer to believe like what would I what is that preference you know rather than what should I believe what would I prefer to believe and um in my in my vocabulary at that point was I would prefer to believe that I got this like it's good it's gonna be fine he's probably not gonna murder me I don't think he has a you know missile that hit will hit my house so I think we're gonna be okay um and then what do I need to do to reinforce this new idea this new belief system so when you go back to question number two we ask like what am I doing or not doing very often the answer to question number four which is you know what do I need to do to reinforce this new belief system It's usually the opposite whatever it was in question to so it's like I'm I'm I'm timid about the show it's just to admit that I'm timid about the show um and it's a powerful exercise I mean I get to connect with you over it which and to tell you like this is this has been like my I've been excited all week and but when you have this idea in your head that you're not enough that excitement very quickly can turn on you into anxiety yeah dude so fascinating I really appreciate that um you've mentioned a couple of times already today boundaries setting boundaries um how do you come to think about that what is it that people are getting wrong when it comes to it how can they be useful uh what's this what's the process Give me the give me boundaries 101 the the best and the worst okay so the first misconception about boundaries um is that they're about other people uh so boundaries are about how you show up in the world they're not they have nothing to do with anyone else they are delineators for what you accept and not accept what you'll tolerate not tolerate and so a boundary doesn't sound like hey don't say that to me it makes me mad a boundary sounds like I have a value system that is around this then how you communicate that is different so for instance I tend to spend my time only with people that I that value kindness if you are an unkind person you have no space in my life so when someone is being unkind I will generally say hey I don't appreciate the way that this is happening right now I'm going to leave the situation that's how you enforce a boundary right so your boundaries are actually based on your value systems that's kind of the the most important misconceptions that like it's a rule book boundaries are not a rule book um the other one I hear a lot of is boundaries are about putting yourself first and that's wor [ __ ] boundaries are about making your needs equal to everyone around you so rather than saying I'm putting myself first I have to be selfish well no you don't have to do any of that you have to Define yourself in equality which is okay my needs are as important as everyone else's and then you can make decisions based on that data right so if for instance you want to go out for tacos and somebody else wants to go out for pizza this is not a boundary right um but if you know one of the things I see a lot with people who have gotten sober is is you know you'll get a phone call and it's my least favorite question of all time well there's going to be drinking at the part or at the party is it okay if I drink I don't why am I in charge of that so my boundary around this is I am not in charge of other of adults other you know other adults decisions that's a boundary like I am not in charge of other adults decisions that doesn't sound like anybody's got a rule to Ben does it like it's that's me I am not in charge of that so when they call me and say is it okay if I drink I'd say I am not in charge of other adults decisions what you choose to do you choose to do if what you are choosing to do makes you feel uncomfortable I would suggest you not do that but I'm not in charge of that decision right um boundaries at work um are very very often something you know I get this brought up a lot it's like well how do I tell my boss I'm not going to do that you just say no and then that's it like a I'm I unfortunately my workload is such um and I have a boundary around personal time with my family so I won't be able to come in this week or this weekend whatever the whatever the thing is right so um those are the two most common misconceptions when you start to understand that you start to develop what it what looks like more like a Bill of Rights than a list of boundaries for the uh anglosphere people explain what the Bill of Rights is in this context please so a Bill of Rights is a list how do I explain this um I actually do this in boundary boot camp which is funny because I I explain it like [ __ ] every single time um but a Bill of Rights is a list of values and priorities that you hold yourself to so for instance I'm allowed to ask for what I want is within my bill of right um I'm allowed to have conversations during sex is in my Bill of Rights um I'm allowed to laugh at inappropriate jokes I'm allowed to make inappropriate jokes I'm allowed to have an opinion I'm allowed to like pizza it's a weird one but it's in there for me because at some point in my life I was married to a woman who was gluten-free and for some reason or not or I was not allowed to like the things that I like I'm allowed to um so when you think of the Bill of Rights it's um you can also put in there things you don't have to do I do not have to tolerate unkindness right um I will I have a I have a boundary around yelling I don't believe that that's a proper way to communicate um so in my Bill of Rights is I do not tolerate yelling in conversation and how does that show up if I enforce it which is I would just simply say hey raising your voice with me is not an is not an option so we're going to take a break from this I'll come back to it in 15 minutes we both of us have calmed down that's it like it's not like it's just this is what's going to happen um so that Bill of Rights really shows up and it's it's unfortunate because it's it sounds a lot like affirmations like and one of your one of your um one of your good friends um who is a coach to me that doesn't know he's a coach to me as Alex chosi um he's the sphere of of uh personal grow has been so awesome because I I have coaches that don't know they're my coaches um and he mentioned at one point I I think it was on your show he said you know um confidence is not about shouting affirmations at yourself in the mirror um and I so this is sort of in that vein um so it's you know going against one of my own you know Heroes but it feels much more operational though you know most of these these aren't things that you're saying in the Whimsical hope that they're somehow going to manifest one day that guidelines their guidelines that you've put on the floor and you say hey if you kick one of these trip wires then if I don't know where the trip wies are if I don't know what they are and if I haven't sort of made a uh a commitment in advance then I'm always going to negotiate with myself about whether or not that is a trip wire or not and you know in the moment trying to come up with any sort of a solution I used to have this thing [ __ ] this is old God this might be 10 years old now um I used to have this this thing about how uh it's basically impossible to come up with a solution when you're in the midst of the crisis and um if if if I told you in a week if I told you in a week's time that I was going to push you into some quicksand you could spend the next week on chat GPT looking at the best strategy and what shoes you'd need to wear and am I supposed to move I sort of do this lateral like sort of shaking thing or it's called like you know the the Huffer movement or some [ __ ] for getting out of uh quicksand but if I just push you in some quicksand and I'm like hey [ __ ] try and get chat GPT out now it's not going to happen you can't think laterally and um yeah another hosm he says 20 minutes of preparation adds 20 IQ points I get the sense that with this it's a much more protracted version you're much further out in advance you're creating these operating principles and yeah maybe it is kind of lame in a way to be like oh my God like you need to write out this list of rules about how to do things and you go yeah yeah I'm in many ways phenomenal and fantastic and competent and in a turnon of other ways kind of useless and this is me compensating for my uselessness this is a solution for me to work around that and it helps me to mitigate the parts of me that I don't want to keep manifesting that these like if you thought about how uh you wanted to redirect a river you have a river and it's moving and it's sort of carving and it's eating away at the outer edge of each turn it's like chopping away at this thing I need to redirect it in this way it's going to take a [ __ ] ton of effort when you first start you're going take an absolute ton of effort but when it begins to find that thing easier than the other thing that's when you move from system two to system one thinking right and that's the the whole process you start off in the deliberate and then you move into the automatic so yeah I I I explain that really in detail um to a lot of people which is you know there's four levels of learning which is you start out as unconsciously incompetent you don't know what you don't know you move into the conscious competence realm where you do know what you don't know and at that point you have to make a choice do I give a [ __ ] to learn how to do what I don't know how to do and you then become consciously competent where you go okay I have to practice this until it's a thing and at one point you become unconsciously competent where it's we we call those people Naturals um like for instance you are a natural podcaster I've watched your very first stuff it was good it's not this good right if you go back to my original videos I looked like a monkey [ __ ] a football it would like I was terrified I was shirtless in Panama I thought it was going to be in men's work but the captions were all wrong it was filmed sideways like a disaster everybody's everyone's got an origin story right um I uh I came across I came across this quote the other day that I thought was really interesting I wanted to bring up to you to do with boundaries says don't try to fix people just set boundaries I've been kind of transfixed by that idea uh for quite a while I it is a a damning indictment about how poorly most people can change uh and some people can some people can make genuine like hard left turns or right turns in their life um but I think kind of meeting people where they're at and just assuming that the person that's showing up in front of you right now is the person that they are sure maybe they're drunk or whatever maybe this is a they had a really really hard day or their dog died yesterday or something like that okay like people have over you know a couple of sample points you do two three sample points you go okay I know who you are and is it really realistic for you to expect this person who you know you just you can't stop thinking about the shape of their eyes or the smell of their hair or the way that they walk or whatever it is and you're not falling in love with that person you're falling in love with the idea of what you could craft them into If Only They were able to be sufficient malleable and I think don't try to fix people just set boundaries is a really lovely redress to those of us that are maybe uh like hopeful Romantics in that way or hopeless hopeless Romantics and this happens with friendships this happens with family too um and I imagine don't try to fix people just set boundaries probably resonates at least a bit with some of the work you do I think so I the other thing I I tend to say is that when somebody shows you who they are just believe them like oh that's great it's really simple like somebody shows you who they are believe them um it's the easiest way to you know we it's the easiest way to negate narcissism um if somebody shows up and they and you know we talk a lot of you know in the in the personal growth world or or not even personal growth but you know just Tik Tok and Instagram and and all the places that I you know my or myself um tend to get all the red flag commentary right well this is a red flag and that's a red flag I'll tell you what a real red flag is the fact that you ignore red flags and if you are boundaried enough if you understand your Bill of Rights if you understand who you are then when somebody shows up in the world that violates that despite how manipulative they can be or whether they have narcissistic person personality disorder or whether you know they're they have sociopathy or whatever it's you won't tolerate it um and so yeah do agree with that statement I I agree with that a lot I just think there's go ahead no I'm just I'm really interested in you have this sort of moment where you've you've maybe got your operating principles your Bill of Rights I imagine that this is a a task that you should sit down really focus on writing it out physically um what I'm interested in is the habits or routines that you recommend for maintaining those boundaries because it's all well and good saying you know it's the first it's the equivalent of the 1 of January the day after you've written the bill of my diet's going to be on point I'm going to sleep 8 hours a night and Sam Harris is waking up apps just G to get fist [ __ ] into Oblivion I'm going to do it every hour of the day um but I've got an alarm for everything yeah exactly yeah talk to me about the the way that people can stay uh resiliant in their their boundary setting the habits the routines for for sort of maintaining that over time for getting back to it if they feel like they've sort of fallen off so I do that in a in a variety of ways um I hesitate to answer it because um there's so many prescriptive ways of living these days that you know everybody's telling me I have to be up at 4 in the morning and I've got to bathe my nuts in olive oil and then I got to Sun my [ __ ] and then I got to get into an ice bath and then after that I have TOA right I've got to go to a sauna after this and then you know once I do that then I could start my day and um but I think put it somewhere you see it um one of one of the things I do with people is just say take your top three that you want to make sure you focus on put them on a business card like go get a blank business card put it on that business card handw write it then take it and laminate it and then you have it right and it's just kind of a reminder it's in your wallet it's in your pocket um it's it's about you know another Hermos ism is you know most most people don't need to be taught they need to be reminded um so once I've taught you I've taught you um the other way you can do this is is getting involved with other people that are doing this um so you know my community is a great example of this I have an incredible group of of humans that are all in there and you know they get a text message for me like every other day says hey stop that whatever you're doing that you know you shouldn't be doing stop doing that or or do that right um but the most important thing I think Chris is just is just read it you know if you read every day you get up and you have kind of a morning routine it doesn't have to be you know you don't need to spend 25 minutes meditating on it you don't need to you know have a long conversation with yourself in the mirror you don't need to write I love you and lipstick and then a heart around your head and you know all that nonsense you just read it once a day um as you go and I learned that actually um one of my favorite stories about myself I'm about to speaking of um filating myself is um I I was fortunate enough to be coached one-on-one by ex Ziggler at one point in my life which if you don't know who he is he's you seemingly do he's you know probably the first most important sales trainer ever um and I had called him in a sales slump when I was 19 years old my I just called him on the phone and never thought I'd hear from him but six weeks later he called me back um and he sent me this little thing on his website and it was this um it's like this long paragraph and was like here's what I'm going to do today and and and it wasn't like affirming it wasn't like I'm good enough and I'm smart enough and gosh darn it people like me it was you know here's how I intend to show up and I and he said at the bottom it never forget the quote the eyes are the windows to the soul so be careful what you look at and this was the first thing I read every day for like four years um and you know my sales kept climbing and he checked in on me about every six months and you know really kind dude I'd love to tell you that story some other time but um that's really where I figured that out is that I just read it I read mine every day and and I revamp mine about every six months so I go back and revisit it make sure that the you know the things I'm working on are are you know that I haven't mastered them you know it's it's kind of it's this mindfulness moment that why would I need to continue to be mindful about something that I've already mastered that doesn't make a lot of sense to me um so I just I'll take things off that list and that's another concept is that you know boundaries aren't static they're evolving just like you you know who you are is who you are is not a fixed concept it's um it's ever evolving it's always changing and um that means your needs will change it means your boundaries will change what you'll tolerate what you're willing to tolerate will change and um and I think if you give yourself time enough to grow into that and you can really experience a very cool life so that's how I would say to do that in terms of you know tactically speaking is just read it every day once you do it read it every day I've been a huge fan of Post-it notes over the last year like the most 1930s [ __ ] technology to to fix things that I need to remember just little bits you know I'm a big fan of mantras because I think they're sort of like the windzip you know file sort of compression of of entire ideas and just popping things around is a really nice way to do it so I'm I'm all in for the the the laminating of the business card getting into the I guess what I think we maybe haven't fully covered yet that's probably one of the biggest sticking points is the felt sense when you need to do a thing when you need need to say when you need to enforce a boundary when you need to say no when you need to sit in that sit in that moment it's happening you can the discussion is occurring whatever is about to to go on how can sensitive people become more assertive there's two things on that uh I'm I was actually going to bring this up way early in the call and I forgot about it so I'm really glad you came back to this um the the first thing is very often boundary conversations don't need to happen in the moment um there seems to be this concept that you have to immediately defend yourself but acids and bases mix about as well as emotions and logic so if you are in a potentially emotional situ situation it's best to buy time now that's not to say to be conflict avoidant because that is kind of a core competency of the people Pleasers to just avoid conflict until it goes away but it's about conflict deferment so and maybe that's an hour maybe that's a day maybe it's after Thanksgiving dinner you know maybe Drunk Uncle Eddie needs to go home like whatever but so that's the first thing it's like if you are somebody that's highly sensitive don't hold yourself to the standard that you're going to be you know Johnny on the spot with your boundaries especially in the beginning you have to give your T you have to give yourself time to adjust to this new way of being so and the way you do that is you just say okay hey I'm getting uncomfortable I'm going to take a break for this conversation it's a great way to do that or hey I've asked that we don't talk about that so I'm just going to step away or whatever you know usually usually especially in family situations it's generally around conversation um the second thing you can do is when you notice your feeling that hunched feeling is just to um breathe oh when you get that that sense that you're being overcome I take a I'm I've been a martial artist most of my life um you're probably familiar with the term Ki which means Spirit yell I can't just scream Haya in the middle of family dinner but what I can do is take a very very deep breath in and hard out and that generally will help me reset my nervous system so it's like in all the way and then like really hard through so I get all that carbon out of my body and just let that out and then that will actually cause my skin to heat up and you can see it I actually got flushed when I did it um so that will cause my skin to heat up cause the emotion in my body to kind of dissipate go other places and and to balance out and then I can say okay hey that's not okay um I'm an extremely sensitive person it may not show up that way online um you know I'm sort of a fire branded preacher of everything that says you know you can do it you just don't believe you can and but in you know genuinely speaking I I'm pretty impacted by um other people or I wouldn't do this um so that's how I do it is one good solid breath that nobody even has to know I had um will help me reset and I can then decide kind of make the the idea of okay do I want to even address now um yeah what about just to add a additional layer of complexity there's certain times where you just don't have any other choice you need to address this situation in the moment this isn't necessarily about a boundary this is somebody asking you a decision are we going to do this or are we going to do this and you have to have that moment of self- inquiry you need to try and tap into your desires you need to be able to advocate for your needs uh I'm going to guess that this mindfulness Gap facilitated by uh what's contemporarily known as the huberman breath um is is is a good St is there any other tools for uh assertiveness when kind of Under Pressure like that um there are but uh you know I I will not allow Andrew huberman to take over the keyi okay okay okay you can tell him I said so hope you can take you can take the breath name back if you give us some more tactics right sure um so if you're truly in a moment so number one Speaking of another person that's a coach that doesn't know they're my coach Tim Ferris says that there's no such thing as an emergency um and I fully agree with that sentiment there is no there's almost no reason we need a decision right now unless it's life or death um so if somebody's pushing on something and you're uncomfortable the answer is needs to be a default of no now that's really hard um so that there's there's two things that you have to remember in those moments the first thing is no feeling is no feeling is permanent and they're almost never fatal so no feeling is fatal no feeling is permanent so if it's not fatal and it's not forever you can get past it this is where I was really challenged I used to believe that I wasn't courageous and I used to believe that I wasn't Brave and I believed those things because I was afraid those two things can't exist without me being afraid that's just a Tuesday you become courageous through action you become Brave through action and bravery is defined as going anyway right so at some point you have to realize that it's okay that you're afraid it's okay that your your shoulders hunch forward it's okay that your eyes well up and you don't know what to do it's okay that you're overwhelmed it's okay you have butterflies in your stomach it's okay that your jaw is clenched up and you're just and you just want to fight that's all okay and if you can just remember that it's okay and without it you cannot be courageous you can never call yourself Brave if you're not afraid then you can immediately start to rewire the thought in your head it's like first when I feel afraid what does it mean I'm afraid that's all it means it doesn't mean anything it just means I'm afraid right am I going to die probably not um the two seconds between a decision and the words make a big difference so um in the in the game of no that we talked about earlier so you have 90 seconds like you give him 90 seconds you only really need two really you only need two um so if somebody is really pressuring you or somebody's really pushing on a boundary give yourself two seconds two seconds one two and then speak whatever comes out whatever comes out it can be anger it can be vitriol it can be sunshine and rainbows it can be an I love you it's a great way to diffuse a boundary conversation by the way just I love you try that if you want you want a good one just I love you just screws up the whole room right um so that's what I would say is give yourself two seconds and then speak whatever comes comes to your mouth and it's going to be scary and you're going to feel it right and so I think what I I heard you ask me and tell me if it's true is like how do I get over the feeling you don't you don't you go anyway what about the guilt that people will feel when choosing themselves over others the fact that there's this person there and I have this sense of obligation this sort of I'm so used to subjugating me below everybody else I'm going to feel like I need to deal with being disliked maybe they're not going to like me what if they don't like me I I I'm going to I feel guilty I've chosen myself over this other person sure I think that's probably quite a visceral emotion that people pleases feel yeah it's I mentioned it earlier like if you think of the first time you were going to kiss your wife you're married right you married no I thought you were married for some reason um if you think of the first time you're going to kiss your your girlfriend or anybody and then you think of the first time you thought you were going to die the feelings are identical right so the question is are you guilty or are you excited are you feeling guilty because you're you're not choosing them are you feeling excited because you finally chose you so there's a there's a big reframe there that can happen um without getting into the platitudes of like you know feelings and what all that crap that you can say about you know you'll get over it um actually no what [ __ ] it let's just do the platitude you're going to get over it like be fine you're yeah you're going to feel guilty man it's like you weren't good at tying your shoes in the beginning either you know for the first three years of your life you [ __ ] your pants but you're able to get over the discomfort of learning how to not [ __ ] your pants and how to tie your shoes so if you can get over the discomfort of not [ __ ] your pants and and learning how to tie your shoes and there's a good to fair chance you can get over the discomfort of saying no and so it's this immersion in the idea that you are not for everyone and and I lived my life the opposite forever so I think it's something I'm really passionate about is yeah you're going to feel guilty you're going to feel uncomfortable right is it guilt or is it just discomfort that's the next question it's like are you guilty like are you sitting there going I'm really this person's Really Gonna Be Sad probably not so if they are if you're truly believing that are you engaged in a form of huus would be my next question is like do how important do you think your no is um and I ask people that all the time in exactly the same way is like how important really are you like are you really that important that if you say no I don't want to go to lunch with you they're going to go outside and you know stick a fire hose from the tailpipe into the window probably not I think they're going to be okay they'll have a margarita by themselves right um and so I think there's a self-importance this is where people pleasing and narcissism tend to bump up against each other a lot it's like your no is about as meaningless as your yes because you never say no so when you say no nobody believes you and when you say yes less and less people are believing you because you're so overcommitted you can't show up um it's this weird I don't know it's this weird Paradox where like when you've said yes to everything your know becomes meaningless and your yes becomes less than meaningless so when you start saying no to things you're going to be uncomfortable everyone else is probably just going to be surprised and let him be surprised does life get easier or harder when you stop people pleasing yes yes um initially um it gets and it's not I suppose it depends on how you do it um but if you do it the way I did it um it was initially um much harder because you go through people pleasing is a very lonely way to live it's a very lonely way to live because you constantly feel like you're in a transaction with everybody around you um so and you never really know what your value is to other people and you start to think okay I really don't have any friends so you kind of feel lonely but then when you start to prioritize yourself as equal to other people those people start to leave your life and then you're like well now I'm so lonely but you were lonely anyway I don't even have my fake friends anymore right now I don't even have the bartender that said that they liked me right um it's the same thing as when I when I quit drinking I had all these I had all these friends um but when you drank the the way that I did um you start to realize that those friends were you were just a joke you were a paycheck and a joke and um very often the people that will exit your life uh when you start to do this this work two things will happen either they'll they'll go and they'll stay gone um but more often they Circle back um you know I had a friend we were watching football the other day and he Saidi really like this version of you better and he was the first one that ever said that to me and I hadn't seen him in years and it was just so it was just a really cool moment for me where I I really felt something like he likes this version of me better and it was when I told him no I don't want a shot they don't want to do that like I'm a recovered alcoholic I can have a beer from here here time to time but like I don't want to sit and do shots with you that's a dangerous road for me and I said' now I'm good you know I don't do that more he goes man I really like this version any better what a cool thing but that's been a fiveyear timeline right so it's not it's not unlike starting a business um you go through this from the moment you change to you know what what would might consider to be the end result um you're going to experience a pretty high level of loneliness in between those two points um because you're not healthy enough for the new folks and you're and you're way too healthy like so even having one boundary can make you too healthy for everyone around you that profound when you're like deep in that people pleasing well is you know one boundary will make people start to turn on you like hey I don't want to go to your birthday party why because I don't want to that's it I don't want to um because I value my time and I spend it with my family on Sundays it could be any number of damn things right but that one boundary can really like set this set the tone it's like in the fighting in the in the parlament of fighting like if I jab you in the face I've now set the tone we know who's in control right and when you take control other people aren't going to like it so you immediately start to see people exit stage left and you're like you're looking ahead you don't see a lot right you see an empty Wilderness and the the encouragement I would give people some of the most beautiful growth filled exciting times in my life was when I was the most lonely because loneliness presents with it a massive amount of Freedom like I could do what I wanted when I wanted had to answer to nobody had nowhere nowhere to be no nothing to do like my options were Limitless I ate when I wanted I [ __ ] when I wanted I I went to the I went to movies by myself you know and so initially it will get worse worse is a weird way of saying it I think it initially it will get different and uncomfortable but you're already uncomfortable right I I get I get a lot of people that you know whether it's on my Channel or or in my groups or whatever they'll say well you know if I do this then you know let's pretend you have a narcissistic person by the way I I hate that term I also hate the term manifestation we can do that on another time but let's pretend well my narcissistic whatever is not going to like that okay well they're mad at you anyway so who gives a [ __ ] like if they're going to be mad whether you do or whether you don't you may as well do so if your life is going to suck whether you do or whether you don't you may as well do and if it has to be done sooner or L it may as well be done sooner so let's just do the thing and feel better about ourselves and will it initially suck yes will you immediately feel better without sounding like a a guarantee mostly yes because you know your confidence for me my confidence was shot until I started making commitments to myself and showing up for those it didn't matter how much money I made it it didn't matter didn't matter who my friends were you know I thought it did and it it didn't matter what car I drove and it didn't matter on what floor of the highrise I lived on What mattered was the minute I started saying I'm going to show up for me and I would delineate exactly how I was going to do that and then I would do it I started to think okay well maybe I'm okay and when I start to think okay well maybe if I'm okay maybe I'm maybe I'm better than okay or maybe I am kind of smart maybe I'm not a [ __ ] idiot know maybe I can start a business maybe I can travel the world for two and a half years I did that like a crazy person and you know at 40 by the way don't ever do that 40 it's really it's fun but it's I aged myself a lot and maybe I can ask that girl out maybe I can ask that guy out maybe I maybe maybe I can you know and I think that's what shows up when you when you know kind of in the in the medium term is like maybe I can and then so it goes from like oh [ __ ] I'm lonely to like maybe I can and then it's like oh [ __ ] I really can and and then your life just starts to you know Skyrocket and you start to feel good about yourself and you start to wonder and then you hit a wall um and that'll happen you know because you'll make a new friend or you'll make a a new Ally and they'll turn out to be a piece of [ __ ] that's a it's common along this journey because you start to get a little full of yourself and then you get knocked back down a little bit you make a course correction and then you know slowly but surely you start to find out people love you for you not because of what you do yeah James uh my business partner newtonic sat on a rock Took a ton of cybin in Australia and asked himself the question do people love me for who I am or for what I do and uh it was a I think a difficult question for him to answer because you know the the tougher question that he didn't actually get around to asking but uh a friend gave me was well does the world love me for who I am or for what I do what about you do you love you for who you are or for what you do and then you realize yeah you realize that you're asking the world to love you for who you are Meanwhile your love is contingent on how you've shown up that day you're so you're asking the world to treat you in a manner that you're not even prepared to treat yourself in and uh you know this is this is a good part of the foundation of selfworth uh that if imagine that you had a friend and every time that you invited them out to lunch or or to a party or something they said that they were going to come but they arrived an hour late or they didn't show up at all after a while you'd sto trusting they were going to do anything right well you are that friend to yourself you you you sort of have an intention and then your ability to deliver on that is your self trust and if you always say that you're going to get up on time but you hit the snooze button three times you say that you're not going to eat the cookie or break your diet but you continually do you say you're going to go to the gym you say you're not going to lie to your partner and all of these things continue to be broken it's like well where where is the faith that you should be drawing for what's The Well of evidence that you should be drawing from to have any uh proof that you can do this there isn't any so one of the other words that sort of we danced around a little bit today are triggers and of the the role of triggers what is that how did they sort of factor into this this will probably get me canceled um I know it's a safe space um I want to answer that but I want to also say uh your business partner is also one of those coaches that doesn't know he's my coach in fact you can thank him you can thank him for my sound quality today because I went and bought this just for you he's got he's got a racist accent don't listen to him racist accent so um your triggers are your responsibility what does that mean what are triggers Define them for me so I struggle with this because I think I'm not I tend to not be great in psychological terminology um and I'm gonna get [ __ ] on for it but whatever so in in my in my experience I I come from a lot of childhood trauma and when I was triggered I would have a I would have a visceral emotional reaction within my body it would bring me back to a state of deep fear and anxiety that is what a post-traumatic stress disorder trigger sounds like so and it could be auditory it could be hallucinogenic it can be like it can really be an experience where somebody will say something you'll have a smell you you'll feel a feeling something will occur somebody yell at me and it will just and it could fire my mind off I've done a ton of work um you know on post-traumatic stress disorder and within myself I'm not an expert in the field but I think where we've where we've gotten is the conflation between triggers and negative emotion and that's what I mean by that like you somebody who's legitimately triggered if that's a thing for you you need to you need need to speak to somebody in the psychological field um if you were having a visceral like overwhelming reaction to external stimuli then you have a then that's a bigger problem than I'm prepared to address it's the conflation between there's two things there's a conflation between triggers and negative emotion and the other conflation is between trauma and adversity when I say your triggers are your responsibility I mean just somebody making you feel uncomfortable is not you being triggered and if it is that is your responsibility um even in the sense that I was talking about with my own post-traumatic stress disorder that was still my responsibility so dealing with that level of trigger is different dealing with the I'm uncomfortable Trigger or you know I don't like it when you do that thing trigger how do you deal with it is you you grow up um life is not required to tiptoe around you and and I think we've I think we've you know I think we've beaten that horse to death and manifested our way into this idea of um that everybody is supposed to be everything to us all the time and it's just it's not sustainable and it's not realistic so I'm not sure I answered your question there so much as I gave you a sound bite that's probably going to get me punched in the face on the streets of Denver um but you know whatever I'm interested I'm you and me both I'm interested in uh the capacity to give up on people that working out when you should actually give up how you know when someone has gone too far you know you mentioned earlier on it when somebody shows themselves to you believe them uh I think the noble part of some people pleasing is you will maybe give somebody a chance when nobody else would and sure you know that that's like very upward aiming every Underdog movie in history has got some young right street urchin that gets the coach sees in him the fire the nobody else can and gives him a chance even though he's going to throw it in his face a couple of times blah blah uh but some people take it too far so how have you come to think about this capacity to give up on people um I think there's almost an epidemic of no contact in the world right now so I think giving up on people is happening a little too quickly so I'm really glad you asked that um I think the no contact narrative is so first not everybody that bumps up against the boundary is a narcissist um not everybody who doesn't understand this new way of you showing up is toxic um so I want to just start by saying that but when somebody it's really I mean it's so nuanced and I hate that word too um because it's just it's the new excuse for you know I don't want to hear what you have to say um you said it on another one of these that Nuance is the new nword um I I almost passed out I laughed so hard so um I was driving I almost locked up the brakes in my car but the um I've only gone no contact or cut three people out of my life and they weren't small people so one of which was my father I talked to him once in nine years and then once on his deathbed that was it um I've not talked to my um sister since 2015 or no I'm sorry 209 I have not spoken to her and I probably will never again um and then uh one other person was an X um malevolence is is unmistakable and I think that's all I have to say about that it's that malevolence is unmistakable when you see it run don't walk thinking about again not just where people are when they're at the beginning of their Journey but as they sort of continue to go on continuing to hold boundaries continuing to make progress uh managing that lonely chapter thing in the middle managing the pullbacks the the price Corrections that bring them back down and then put them back up uh I'm interested about what happens when people are a little bit further along in life you mentioned I think the sort of Avatar uh client that you work with is sort of like a a 48-year-old guy who's very successful at whatever it is that he does uh but has been wildly unsuccessful at ever advocating for himself mhm what additional complications come along for somebody who's trying to do this who's trying to sort of enter into this world when they've got financial resources or when they've got some reputation or some status or some Acclaim um does that make it easier or does it make it harder um I don't know I don't know if it's more or less I think it's um might have been Mark Manson that said it that you know a homeless person and Elon Musk both have money problems um the challenges it presents when you've become a highly successful people pleaser are probably more challenging to overcome because there's there's more at stake um and your belief system I mentioned this earlier is you know beliefs Drive Behavior Behavior creates environment um but beliefs are built through reinforcement so you've spent you spent 20 years reinforcing this people pleasing um as a way of living and you then have convinced yourself that if I don't make everyone happy I'm GNA go broke right if I don't you know and so in the Highly Successful People Pleasers that's where we start to see that burnout component is well [ __ ] you know I'm just I'm just an ATM machine and I I think it's I think it's more challenging in the way that you have to literally redefine your relationship with probably the two highest value things in your life which are your family and money and to devalue money is probably the top priority and that's really hard um you know I really like money I I like making lots of money I like spending money I like going out to nice dinners like I'm a dude who likes stuff and I don't like stuff but I like experiences and they're usually not cheap and you know so that's the benefit in it of course is that you can then prioritize things that you actually like but your relationship with money has to change and um I think it was on your show that Jordan Peterson said you know about getting sober that you have to change everything you have to change who you hang out with you have to change you know your entire social Strat like all of it has to change and that's uh very true um with with the people pleas you know now I think about it's probably more challenging um it requires a lot less it requires a lot more resources and a lot more time because you have a lot more invested in it um the cool thing though with the highly successful variety so my my clients between you know like 35 and 55 you know making a quarter million plus a year when the Habit breaks it usually breaks for good and it's it's like a moment it's a Moment of clarity so like with people that are not quite at that level that are kind of moving up you know my 28y olds that are doing okay but not they're not where they need where they want to be at right they tend to take a little longer for some reason or another but like with a 35 to 50 you know 65 whatever year old when they recognize the pattern and it's like it's always one little thing it'll be a technique that I show them or you know learning how to say no and it's just over and then everything changes all at once and it's not and it's not a change that it's not like a toxic variety of it either I really thought about that Chris but it's really not it's usually just okay I'm going to do this now now and everybody around him goes okay yeah that makes sense yeah there's a self there's a self assuredness uh that right that Prestige sort of brings along with it it's weird because I suppose people that have managed to reach some type of Acclaim or Renown or whatever reputation within their family within their industry whatever it is people kind of have faith that they know what they're doing so say hey like you you you managed to get us here so far you're the captain of the ship or the what the suf or whatever like let's we we'll continue to follow you and uh that faith is even if it's come from a place that's been compelled and not well balanced and not fully integrated and not alchemized and all the rest of the stuff but it's been effective and you go well look we followed Nick into battle a good bit and he sort of he didn't really steer us wrong there so I I reckon we just kind of follow so you know the proof is in the pudding so to speak and if Nick thinks that the new direction is to take a hard right then so be it and and we'll go and do it so I wonder whether yeah there is a there are more ingrained habits for you to overcome and there's maybe a little bit more to risk but also you've got more ballast on the ship like you've got more status you've got more financial resources um y I think that that's a great way of saying is you got more balast on the ship you know which is a short way of saying that you've got more support um you know something I would really want people to know listening to this people do love you they do um they just don't know how and so when you change especially if you're in that kind of higher status um or if I'm going to be you or James status um position um look at me I'm learning um they have more to lose than you do it's so I think there's a component to that of selfishness within your social strata as well people need to people need to keep you happy right like I you know if you're miserable and you know I had a really great CEO that was in London we never did work end up working together but I really love him and I hope we get a chance to someday but um he has that kind of really big Persona that really big social strata and um I don't think he knows how easy this is going to be because everybody loves him right and he's you know he's everything to everybody most people in your life that love you don't want you to live like this they really don't they benefit from it you know everybody in your life if you're really in that people pleaser mindset if you really do live that way everybody in your life either benefits directly or indirectly from the behavior I promise right but if you believe like I do that the meaning of life is love and adventure and honesty is what Adventure is if you wantan to if you want to have an adventurous life just be honest then being honest with the people that you love will only make them love you more and the reason you know it's it's it's like this I heard this analogy about velcro um that the only reason velcro works is because it's imperfect and because that's what catches the velcro that's what catches the the the loops is the imperfections and if you really want people to love you be you and and watch how they change and and be grateful for who they are and love them even when they're afraid of you and don't back down life is so much better than we make it it's like I have never been in a position that I am more grateful for who I am than I am now and it's not because of status and it's not because of wealth and it's not because of any of the you know extrinsic motivators that people might have it's I fell in love with the person I am and I just kind of let people come and go as they need to and because I get to do that I get to do that I get to have things like boundaries but I also get to have great sex I also get to have amazing dinners I also get to laugh at people like you you know I get to meet friends that I never thought I'd meet I so one of my coaches his name is Stone I told him I'd mentioned his name on this podcast um he was 17 when I hired him to teach me how to do Tik Tok he was 32 bucks um and about a year ago I had posted on my wall that I wanted to come on your show and I told all my I told all my following to tag you and I don't know if they did or not but I was like I really want to go on the show really want to meet this guy and he text he goes if you get on that [ __ ] show I swear to God I won't make another piece of content so but why do I get to do this it's because I show up as me online I'm not a Persona I'm not I'm not blowing smoke up anyone's ass I just I get out there and I do it and then I saw you say it and I said what I say it wasn't like so I didn't sit and obsess about it I was like all right I'm just going to say this you know he's probably never going to see it whatever and next thing I know here I am right and um is it harder um when you're a fluent maybe I don't know I don't know if it matters I think the journey is worth it anyway dude I love it I love it I really appreciate your energy I really appreciate the vibe I think that it is a unseen uh epidemic that a lot of people are dealing with and um being able to do it from a a frame that makes you feel proud to be able to sort of Step Up to do this uh that kind of in a very actually a very British way admits self-deprecatingly that this is a both maybe one of the most difficult challenges and like some sort of weird mortal Quest and also a totally internal battle that no one's ever ever going to give you any glory for completing it's sort of this the most boring and magnificent thing that you're ever going to do both at the same time uh uh you know a champagne problem that only you are ever really going to be able to Pat yourself on the back for uh even if it affects the world and the rest of the people around you I I I really love it you've mentioned a couple of times I'm I'm curious before we finish up you mentioned a few times uh different books that were really uh impactful on you Scott peac was one of them um traveled yeah if if you were to sort of think about I don't know couple of books that you gift the most or that you've reread the most are the ones that sort of from an accessibility perspective really really made a big impact on you what would they be um first one is um not nice by aiz gaspari um that was really the I think that was the first book I ever read that really addressed this kind of people pleasing behavior and really put helped me put a tag on it oh I see that right so um that book is called not nice um you know the Cornerstone text of course is going to be Dr Robert Glover you know No More Mr Nice Guy like Doc you're the king you know you're the king shut up about it and um um I would say that probably Scott peek is is I mean it's it was one of the number one selling personal growth books of all time which is the The Road Less Traveled um really a direct punch in the face for making excuses um and you know some of the other greats of course Mark Manson did a marvelous job with you know subtle art and um you know Atomic abic you know obviously James clear and Tim Ferris and all those guys but um probably those are my top threes not nice by um gasbar um Glover is No More Mr Nice Guy and um Scott peek I believe is no longer on the planet but uh the road L traveled is that is probably the book that will change your life the fastest if you really sit to and just absorb it it'll break you um and it's it's one of my favorites it's one of my favorites um I think where I learned to speak though if I can if I can give you one more my favorite fictional author is Kurt vonet which book um slaughterhouse 5 is probably the one that everybody says but Sirens of Titans is my favorite um I just love I love him as an author I've read I've read his entire Library like whenever I'm in in a mood that I don't want to read personal growth which is starting to happen more and more um as I as I write a book around this um I'm just kind of burned out on it I don't want I don't want to read anymore about how I have to have habits I don't I don't care like I know I'm gonna think positive it's fine I'm gonna be fine um you know I think I've probably absorbed 10,000 hours of this [ __ ] so if I don't know by now I'm not gonna know Nick Paula ladies and gentlemen Nick I appreciate the hell out of you uh I really love your energy I love your Vibe I love what you're talking about where should people go they want to check Coes social media all of that stuff easiest place to find me is the people displeasure decom um and on Instagram is you know the people displease um a moniker that I I love and would hope to get rid of some n it's good for now it's good for now it'll take I'll take it for now but the the peop displeasure decom is the easiest way to find my stuff and um follow me on Instagram and if you really want to do me the favor follow me on YouTube because that channel needs some love it's same the people displease her so I love it I loved being here thank you so much for this um it's been a dream of mine for a couple of years now you made it come true so I appreciate you well you deserve it thank you man until next time do you think that your algorithm on YouTube is a bit of a God is able to know things about you that you don't know about yourself well the YouTube gods have selected this episode specifically for you bespoke so go and go and check it out