How to Get Better Every Single Day - Sam Sulek (4K)

If you weren't doing bodybuilding, what do you think you'd be obsessing over instead? >> I think I mean it would have to be something, but honestly, my uh I was kind of lucky starting off body I I don't even say bodybuilding. The only uh and this is something people say anyway, if you don't compete, you're not a bodybuilder. Like it's a little cuz when someone does their first show, you know, they kind of want to express this like, you know, glamour about it. It's like I'm a bodybuilder cuz I competed. You're just But I I kind of leaned into that. So before I actually competed, I was I'd always describe myself as like just I'd say a lifter cuz it's the point wasn't more so to compete in bodybuilding. Like when I'm working at arms, I'm not thinking like, okay, I need my arms to be a little bit bigger so that I can beat this guy on stage. Like it's more so I want them to be bigger for me. And then that kind of played into once I was at a certain level like okay now is about time to compete. Like it was always on the list but it wasn't like the point especially not in the beginning >> for me. I'm like I just want to get big. >> I I did gymnastics when I was like 11 to 16. I think I was good but I wasn't like going to be college level scholarship like no Olympic but like it was fun. And there's one guy named Connor who is he's the older dude. And now I might not look at him the same way, but at the time he was nuts. He was huge. >> Mhm. >> So we all whenever we do like strength or conditioning, that's how I think that was probably some of the seed that got planted cuz I was doing like 4 hours a day like middle school, early high school. >> So you already had one obsession. >> So I that was like it like every it wasn't and I never had to be dragged to do it cuz like I was excited, it was fun. So once I quit doing that to switch it with the bodybuilding just happened to be something I was already kind of interested in and it just fit perfectly. Like we would talk every summer where some of the guys would be like okay this summer we're actually going to work out and we never did it. But once I actually quit doing it that's what I replaced it with. But if it wasn't bodybuilding let's say there was a alternate universe Sam or I've got the itch where it's like oh it'd be awesome if I could play guitar like Rob Scallan. He's a he's this YouTuber who's, you know, into guitars and everything or just anything like that could have been it. But it happened to be like, okay, I'm going to get into working out really serious >> and that also just happened to be the perfect match for me. >> Have you held on to the bendiness from gymnastics at all? >> A little. I can like when I stretch I can loosen up, but when I'm off season of carbs, like it actually kind of sucks to squat cuz I get like >> how tight everything is. >> Everything is tighter. When I'm dieted down, I can get my hands under a squat bar fine. >> But when I'm eating a lot of food, like when I'm more like a 270, like I'm sitting there for five minutes just trying to stretch out. >> Uh Mike Israel had a uh some back surgery thing on him. And he's cut open, they've removed fat, they've got rid of fat cells, they've stitched him back up. It's like a big traumatic surgery. >> And uh I asked him what the most painful thing that he went through was. And it was that he he said they'd laid him on his back with his arms like this. >> Yeah. >> And he said he woke up and the most painful thing was the fact that he'd been in an overhead position with his arms over his head for a few hours. And uh that always makes me laugh. >> I never heard that part. I did see that though. Some of those if I had something done like that for whatever reason, I probably wouldn't post that surgery picture with like the bloody shirt. >> That man has no shame. He just >> But that's kind of that's kind of cool too because he actually gets to show it off. >> Well, I think you know why is it that people have resonated with you a very sort of transparent look into even if people don't see themselves directly in Mike getting his back cut open or you spending a lot of time obsessing about the gym, what they do see is a person being transparent, right? And that's where relatability comes from. I think like authenticity breeds relatability. And you know, if Mike had just disappeared and come back with a smaller waist and some scars, people would have been like, "Hey, what's going on?" And I think that that wouldn't feel very uh legitimate. >> Yeah. No, that's a good way of thinking about it. That's one thing where I didn't plan for it to be like that, but I got a lot of questions this whole weekend where it's like and every any all of us do like everyone who's semi any even like you've got 10,000 followers like it's okay, what's the secret? >> And it's the same thing with bodybuilding. What's the one set that I can do where it actually completely makes it super easy and it all just happens like nothing. And it's um like usually if somebody wants to start posting things or trying to, you know, do anything, it's always like, okay, what are people doing? Let me try to emulate that and like recreate it or just like jump on a trend. Which like is fine. Maybe try to change it up a little bit. But it's like the best thing that you could do is pick something that you already do and you already like and just try to like document that. like if you're a um and it's to the point now like where if you weren't doing that you're almost missing out or like if you have a small business or if you're into like restoring cars or you have some kind of random interest like the what I really like about social media is there's so many niches that no matter what you're into you could make it a thing and uh so I guess if I could say one tip being able to talk on camera helps a lot >> because then you actually like when I look at people I've seen guys post things in the gym for ever before I posted anything and they're still posting the exact same thing and I've seen this guy for like seven years and he's super big but he's never like spoke on video >> and I'm like that's the whole point. I want to I want to know who this guy is so I can kind of >> like get back to those experiences. Yeah. So it's like it's almost u a situation where you already have something really valuable and it's your own individuality and to try to like you know conform to what everyone else already does is basically to lose that. So you're already your own individual guy like no one has lived your life. Try to show that part off. But I'm also not the best source of that kind of tip because my first YouTube video is the same as this one. >> There was is the same as the most recent one. So there is no like okay I went through years of study and data and analytics and this is the like it wasn't a Mr. Beast story of I analyzed the whatever. If somebody told me they were going to post like what I posted, I don't think it would work. >> If you tried to plan it in advance, it would have probably sounded like a failure. >> Yeah. So it just happened to line up. >> Who was inspiration for you coming up both content creation side but also mindset physique wise? >> Yeah. In uh so I I really watched a lot of Callum Vonmoger like back when I was you know or a 16-year-old cuz the guy who got me into the gym like I mean I was getting into it anyway but he was the guy from my high school who actually bodybuild. He competed like at at the end of where he was a senior and I was a junior. Like we were both like the bodybuilders of the school, you know, like a high school level. But he got me into Callum. And then eventually I started watching all the Rich Piana bigger by the day videos, which then you can kind of see the similarity where it's okay, he's posting a video every day, >> he's in the car, he's doing a real workout. And like I I only thought about it like I like that format. I go to the gym and I work out and I drive back to record that is like nothing. Like it's it's very seamless for my routine. But it uh it was also just something like nobody was doing. Like I was when I was coming up before posting anything, I'm looking at regular influencers. I'm like, "Oh, you guys wouldn't even work out if you didn't have a camera." And I'm squatting in like a dead gym. It's like 2:00 in the morning, no one's wa like I I recorded the set for me. Nobody else watched it happen. And that's that was like a chip on my shoulder thing of like it doesn't even matter. There's no one in here. I'm still getting after it cuz I want it and there's nothing that's going to change that. So when I started like actually posting things once I saw a group of brothers who went to my school really blow up one summer and I'm I was getting kind of like jealous. I'm like, "Okay, now I got to start doing it." I was going to do it eventually, but that was like the starter. Godless. >> I was like I've always kind of hemmed about this where it's like am I a different guy now that I'm recording all these things and trying to like talking about it and putting it out there and like I I I would just always think about that like the back of my mind cuz now these workouts are not just me alone. Now there's an observer. So it's like is the experiment altered because now people are watching it. And I don't think it is. Like after all this time, I think I'm still, if anything, it's a little bit of an accountability factor because if I didn't think, you know, maybe I wasn't totally into it, I know somebody's watching, so I might go a little extra hard. So I think it hasn't taken away too much. >> But maybe I did a little bit. >> Yeah. But but if you get distracted by it, it's like the the the workout should come before the recording of the workout. I've always thought. Have you found it hard to hold on to authenticity now that millions of people are watching? >> Well, now it it'd be if I made a video that was inauthentic, it'd be strange. Like I'll uh cuz I'll record cuz now I'm kind of getting around doing all these events. I get to talk to everybody and sometimes it's hard to actually separate someone's social media persona versus their real like human personality because sometimes we look at a video as like you're kind of hosting a show and a TV host does not talk off set the same way. Welcome back to the >> on set. like it was like, "All right, we're gonna hit a chess day today." And I'm doing like a YouTube intro and there's like sounds like like that's just not what I do. And I I for me I think that'd be silly anyway. So it's um I think it's for me kind of a cool mentality where I'm not exactly even thinking like, okay, I want to improve my content engagement. I'm trying to improve my reach or like anything like that cuz I almost boil it all cuz it's so dimensional like it it branches out. They talk about everything, but it's like I want it to be about the gym specifically. So for me, it's like this kind of branching off point of motivation where in my mind I feel the better that all my workouts are, not only is that better for me cuz I want them to be good, but it will just bleed and like bleed out and raise everything else up >> because it's all stemming from the working out anyway. There's 4hour compilations of your car talks to go to sleep to. >> Did you anticipate that you'd become an ASMR channel eventually? >> But I uh I actually heard that before. Never in high school, but when I was in college, my it was like my second year. I gave a couple presentations like one time I one of my curricular or extracurricular credits was mafia cinema history. So it was following >> that's niche but yeah >> it was following like from the first um what would you call a soundless movie? >> Oh okay. Yeah. where in between frames of like actual video, they just had black a black screen with the words that got like it started from there and then >> what a funny what a funny way to to put a movie together. >> Yeah. But it's like that's all you had. >> They can they can time sync audio with a clap like we can now >> but then it went up like all the way through Godfather and everything else. And I had to make a group video where it was clips from all these movies and someone had to overlay their voice and edit it all together. And I was posting like little Tik Toks at the time, like fitness Tik Toks. So I almost volunteered for the editing voice over so I could get a little like that was the first video that I ever edited it technically. >> And people told me after when they heard it, they said, "Dude, you should do like an audiobook or something." And I didn't hear it. I did not like I couldn't hear it because it's my own voice. But then I gave a different presentation in a different class and the two guys sitting next to me said the same thing. So I don't know what what changed over the course of those years or if like maybe I got a little older and I could be more outspoken and like not shrink down and be so nervous cuz I'm like talking to someone. But that's part of it where when I think of how he could like do uh like do the books on what all the just success came from. It's like I think posting a lot of videos actually like meaning what I'm talking about and really working out and like being behind it like that that's something I could tell anybody to do and I always say that the X factor was involved cuz a lot of it was things that just could not be predicted but happened to work out really well. >> I would subscribe to a Samu like sleep stories uh app if that goes out on Audible. You know >> I I get curious about doing just audio books. I I think it'd be great. Like you're just describing a an afternoon walk through a gentle meadow or something. >> Yeah. And then I'd probably I'd get to read the books cuz I'd be I'd be reading it and I'd be a little more you wouldn't say literate, but you'd be a little more just >> I could look dude if the if this bodybuilding thing and all this Gym Shark stuff, you know, if that doesn't go well, I I genuinely think that there's a an opportunity, you know, a nice collaboration with Karma Headspace or something like that. sleep stories. It' be good. So I you know just lingering on what we said there this authenticity with millions watching and it is there's a there's a degree of uh performiveness you want to you're always compelled to do because >> yeah like in a way I think there's kind of like a Sam on video >> and then there's like a Sam when I'm talking with my buddies or a group but I almost don't think it's too much of a like thing because you will naturally act differently based on who you're with and for me when I'm working out alone and I've got just the camera. Like I thought I'd get a camera guy cuz that's what everyone does. >> But it's so natural for me to have that like actual back and forth. It's all just things that I get to think of. Like even though I'm probably a little less energetic cuz obviously if you're in a group hanging out whoever like you're going to be a little more jumpy but when it's just me like I don't think that's like as even though it's a little different than my typical back and forth like even now this probably wouldn't be exactly how I talk like in the world but it's not intentional in a way. >> The the goal is to try and reduce the distance between those two people right get them as close as possible [ __ ] me. It's like you'll dress up for a fancy restaurant. That doesn't mean you always dress up. >> But that doesn't mean that you in a suit is somehow inauthentic. Yeah. But, you know, I I think um >> even the lowest followed person with a a couple of hundred followers on their Instagram, if you turn the camera around on yourself and you press the button >> like, "Oh, [ __ ] I need to do um there was a a statistical increase in cosmetic surgery. I think it was called Zoom Face >> after co because people were seeing themselves on camera so much that they were observing their own flaws and you know that's you just on a live call with your boss or your assistant or your team or whatever. So holy [ __ ] like if that's how people are feeling just with video calls on co imagine what it's like when you start posting or you put an Instagram story up. >> Yeah. I never I never heard about that. But that that's one thing where cuz the bodybu like even getting into bodybuilding and everything that comes along with it and like bringing like a prepped meal to school or just whatever. It's still a little like off the beaten path. It's getting super normal now cuz everybody's in the into the gym which I think is perfect >> because now gyms are going to >> you know sub not substantially but gradually increase in value because there's just more of a demand. M >> so it's like the more the marrier. But uh just from knowing that it's kind of a thing where like if you post on social media, you're asking to get hated on. It's just the nature of it. But bodybuilding is like also a guarantee cuz it's it's you could play into it like maybe someone's insecure about how they look and they're going to go after someone who they like whatever. It's just part of it. But already knowing that like to you know get into it and see anyone say anything. Like it's if you're unapologetically into something like if I saw you eating a bowl ice cream and I said, "I can't believe you're eating vanilla. That's the worst flavor. You're a total loser." But you really liked it. You wouldn't be offended by that. You'd think I'm weird for even trying to criticize you for it cuz you really are into it. So that's um that's something where it's it's its own skill to be able to put yourself out there and only take criticism for what it is. Like if someone posted or made a comment on my video, and this is more like when I put my director producer hat on and they say, "This video's mic or this video's audio sucked. Delete your channel." I'm going to take that as all right, my I might need to fix my audio. I don't need to take the hate with a critique because I can take I want the critique. That's the good. >> Thank you for your feedback. >> Yeah. Like you can you should be able to separate that from the the context of how it's said. What have you learned about dealing with criticism and and selfworth and stuff like that? Because if the plan was, hey, it'd be cool if some people watched this and then there's an awful lot of scrutiny and you're young and are approaching this from a little bit of a different angle. It's going to invite in >> criticism. >> Yeah. >> How how have you learned to deal with that? Uh it's not like I totally did not even think about it in the beginning because when you first start getting like let's say you're posting something you get like a few thousand followers. It's um you know it it takes a second but if you look back on it it's really a milestone that your videos are being shown to more people cuz if the same 10 people love every video in the comments that means your stuff's only getting shown to them. It's not getting shown to anyone else. So once people start giving you uh like you know just saying regular just hate that means that they're someone who got shown your stuff for the first time. So it actually means your things are moving out of like a small little scale bubble and scaling but it's I don't know for someone who's struggling with it. I'd say like remember this guy just scrolled away. He did not he doesn't even remember saying it. It's it's just a weird thing where you know your phone is a totally different communicative device than real life. So maybe judge what people actually say to you in person and just for some people it's much harder to get over. I'm sure >> it's a good point that that comment someone just made is flippant passive whereas for you that might linger. I I I know for me, you know, over the thousand episodes I've done this show, >> there's certainly some comments where I've gone to bed at night and I'm like, "Fuck sake, >> like that's the that's the thing that you're going to think about as your head hits the pillow, but you just remember the insults and forget the compliments." That's kind of the way that the world works. And it's a and even just try to like this is one thing I really like is trying to imagine anything where it's not a debate but just like two sides of an approach like okay do I want to read every hate comment and take it personally and like really only look at those or do I want to like look at the system as it really is. There's like always way more real comments. So why does the why does a negative one get so much impact and 10 other like how many good comments even outweigh one bad one? >> Mhm. And if that one actually like hit you in a weak spot, there could be no number and that could just be it. Yeah. >> So, I think that's where it's um it's almost like it it shouldn't be, but it is like it it shouldn't happen. People shouldn't be mean, but they are going to be. That's just how it is. So, that's where it's actually your responsibility to try to be impervious to it >> because you're kind of suffering in your own mind. >> Mhm. >> Because it was your choice to let it in and get upset. M >> because if you were a little kind of like I don't want to say mentally tougher but kind of um if you could take a little more stoic approach like that then you wouldn't even get upset about it in the first place. >> What does that stoic approach look like to you? It's just not uh you know not making a fuss about something if it doesn't actually require that because I I think about that a lot like my my whole thing is or one thing I like to think is like okay was today a good day like net and it doesn't have to be crazy good but like on average was I feeling like pretty good not too stressed out about things if I have a to-do list it's not like like I'm taking the proper steps to actually complete it like it's I'm not letting anything linger too much And if I'm making myself upset or like if I'm tired and I'm going into situations with a negative starting point, well then you're already you can be upset about anything. Oh, this weekend was so busy. Oh, it sucked. Oh, I'm so tired. Like you you can instantly do that and it's like nothing cuz it's this weird self-depreciation like boom me things are so hard and it's it's a I mean I I get the logic because it's it's a comfortable like retreat. Everything is so hard. Everything sucks. I can do nothing about it. It's just how it is. So there's nothing like it's a it's a taking your hands off the wheel of things when you're not 6 years old like this is you reach a point where you're you're responsible like I you know I've still got some some stuff at my parents house I'm going to go pick up and things but at this point now like 23-year-old Sam I'm completely responsible for all my own stuff so I got to actually take a hold of it and if I make myself upset about like the stupidest things well then I'm stressing myself out for no Before we continue, this might be the most refreshing flavor that Element has ever made. It takes the classic taste of lemonade and makes it functional, giving your body back the sodium, potassium, and magnesium that it loses when you sweat. No sugar, no junk, just the stuff that works. I've been drinking Element for over 3 years now. And it genuinely feels different when I take it versus when I don't. And they back it with the best policy. You see that? That I've ever seen. And no questions asked refund, no time limit. You don't even need to return the box. That's how confident they are that you love it. Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of all of their favorite flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. I'm like Neo in the Matrix, dude. You're not going to win. That's drinklnt.com/modern wisdom. [Laughter] It is a a strange thing to try and deal with the criticisms of people that you don't know. At least in my experience, the amount of times that you can try and reverse engineer. Well, would you don't take criticism from someone you wouldn't take advice from. Don't accept. >> That's a good one. >> Yeah, it's it's nice. All of this stuff makes sense. But we're just we're saying it in a hypothetical. >> When you're in it, it's >> I got this conversation later on today with a couple of young philosopher bros >> and uh they do uh logic, right? So, it's a very sterile um uh rational way to sort of look at situations. >> Honestly, the more that I've done a little bit of research into logic, the more it feels like it just completely [ __ ] falls apart the second an emotion comes in. Oh, this sounded so great. But you're not an equation. You're not a sterile laboratory. >> Yeah. It's like it's something that's fun on paper cuz you could you could read that and think, "Oh my god, if I start thinking that this way, I'll never be upset again." >> Mhm. >> And it's like you're not a freaking robot. I bring this up a ton where I'm like, just because you can use Excel doesn't mean you don't have to run around like we used to do when we were hunter gatherer. We're not that much different. >> Okay? >> Like we can do way different stuff, but you're still like genetically right there. You got to run around and freaking move. >> But yeah, same thing. You can't like the idea to kind of like almost be afraid of your own emotions where you don't want to even get into it >> and just like thug your way out of it where it's like I don't care. >> Mhm. >> It's just like any kind of extra masculine. >> Have you heard of ACT acceptance and commitment therapy? >> It's sim not too dissimilar to CBT. It's kind of CBT adjacent I suppose but in in many ways um CBT is teaching you uh the thinking patterns the way that your brain works so that you can uh better see and move through challenges acceptance and commitment therapy a lot of that is about this thing is happening and you sort of allow it to move through you. So it it's um CBTI for insomnia is very popular and ACT I for insomnia is also uh pretty popular but the approaches are very different. So um acceptance and commitment therapy for insomnia a lot of the time is just okay I'm awake. What would it be like if I was okay with being awake? Not CBT which a lot of the time feels like you're um you're in battle with it. Uh oh that's catastrophic thinking that's anchoring bias. That's, you know, >> uh, and at least in my experience using ACT for challenges that you've got in your life, you said before, um, do I feel sort of generally pretty good about the day? Am I not too stressed? So, >> what would it be like if I was just okay with this? What would it be like if I was just my knee, I've got a little bit of a knee injury or something? You go, I can fight against it or I can reverse engineer it. You know, this is a challenge that I need to get through. This is where the real work begins. You go, "My knee hurts. >> What if I was okay with my knee hurting?" >> Yeah, >> I still need to go and do the thing. But at least for me, and maybe it's different for different physiologies, for me, I just like that sort of ease regulation thing for me. That's >> that that works quite well. >> But then that's where like when I talk about the logic of taking things to like two extremes, well, what do you do? Like just take everything negative that ever happens to you and say this is just how it is. That's okay. >> Mhm. Like that's completely forgetting. >> I don't need to fix it. I can just let it fester and get worse. >> Like it's um it's are you going to lower your standards to the problems that you're dealing with or are you going to raise your standards and fix those problems and be in a better position? >> So you can't fix everything, but some of the things it's that's where the middle ground comes in. The things that you could fix, you should fix, >> and the things that you can't you shouldn't worry about. >> Well, that's the stoic fork, right? That dichotomy of control thing. So, uh, you mentioned there about training at the gym 2 in the morning, kind of getting it done. This is me on my own. How difficult has it been to maintain a simple lifestyle now? Cuz I can't imagine that training in the gyms near you is quite as peaceful as it used to be. >> Maybe a little, but it's actually it's the best there out of anywhere. Apart from >> People have seen you a million times. >> I've been at this gym since I started working out. So, I see all the all the same people working out. >> Amazed. If anything, they're probably like, "Oh, he's on my machine." >> Like, "Oh my god, Sam's on the Smith. I want to >> I was going to be there for 30 minutes, motherfucker." >> Cuz it's a and it's and it's just like an exposure thing, you know, like just from being there so much. But when I uh when I get to visit places, that's where it's a little crazier. Or um like even it's kind of a classic trope of holy my Instagram just blew up and go to LA. I'm out of here. And it's uh you're kind of boxing yourself in because now you're doing what everyone else does. For me, I've been like the gym is going to have the same weights anywhere. The whole point of social media is you can do it from anywhere. I don't need to uproot my whole life and everyone that I know just because that's what other people do. So, it's um at home it's like very normal, >> but it's it's definitely different. But even as different as it is um like I I got this a lot. It's like how crazy is this? And like objectively it's totally crazy. Like I can still see that from before to now. But you do get a little bit exposed to it just from it never just happened. >> Like first it was like one guy at a Kroger said, "Whoa, dude. I saw you on my phone earlier and it was a video that had like 2,000 views." like it just happened because he was that was the start and then like the next week there was another guy and then it like all very like 0.1% increases over time. So there was no moment where the frog jumped out of the boiling water cuz it just raised temperature super slowly. But it's it's definitely crazy how big it's all kind of scaled. But at home it's it's pretty normal. >> How do you not get distracted as more options come onto the table? I think uh I've still got a little bit of that kind of I don't want to say hater preconception, but almost like hard-headedness of like I know what I'm doing. I know what I want to do. I know who I wouldn't want to like get involved with. Cuz it's not like everyone on social media is always the nicest person ever. Like it's it's like anything. So I can see guys where I would say, "I like this guy. This guy's cool. We have talked before. Let's do something." Uh but even uh and I always think about this at the expose like to see an expo. Everyone just left this lift London and they are getting after it. This year is their year. I saw I saw Sawyer Clad. I saw David Le. Phil Heath was there. This is going to be sweet. in a week that that motivation is going to it's going to dwindle because this is this is like the just for show part and in the moment it's super flashy but you know even the workouts I got to do with some of the gym shark guys like Jack Eagles and Marcus and like is really fun cuz I get to lift with guys who are kind of higher level advanced like Jack Eagles is total beast but that's you know countered by the three months of workouts I just did on my own >> which were only for the purpose of like progress. So, it's um it's like there's a ratio of like fun to work where like you know how many there would be a million hours of I I always reference the basketball players cuz they're such a good example of a lot of practice before performance and it's like how long would you sit and watch like a Kobe Bryant shoot uh free throws? Like how long would you watch LeBron do dribbling drills? You wouldn't. But that's the kind of um I see a lot of quotes where it's like those are the glorious glorious battles which when won add up to a seamless victory. But it's it's like you can't forget that all happened before. But it's easy to when all you see is that end result. Like when we're all in matching track suits for a freaking Gym Shark team. >> Don't forget everybody is now going back to where they belong. Not belong, but back to where they're from >> to do the boring >> and they're all going to get back to back to work. They're all going back to normal, >> dude. It's the same with the show. It's This is fun and it's cool, but >> that's not >> over this weekend. You know, I've been I I landed on Thursday. >> I had the athlete venue thing on for Friday with all of us going. >> Yep. >> I didn't get to do the athlete workout on the Friday afternoon cuz I had to go back and prep and read. And then I had to do it before we left on Saturday and then left early on Saturday and then on Sunday did it all morning and then didn't get to go to the product showcase last night for the same thing. So yeah, you're right. It's >> 95% 98% of it is all of this stuff which is me looking at a laptop or me with a Kindle or me with a book or me with notes or me walking and going what the [ __ ] do I think about that thing? Like what's the idea? What's the name for that concept? What's whatever? And then, oh, okay, I get to come back and and finally have some fun. But there's a a cool story from Atomic Habits by James Clear. And uh >> I think it was the lead coach of maybe the Chinese weightlifting team or maybe this is Ben Burgger's Chasing Excellence. It's one of the two. >> Mhm. >> And they spoke to uh the lead coach of the Chinese weightlifting team. They said, "What's the difference between the guys who are elite and the guys that are world champions?" and he said it's the world champions that are prepared to do the most boring work with the least amount of complaining. >> And uh I just really like that idea because especially as things become more successful and this is like a a really unpopular talking point on the internet because everybody wants to hear the 0ero to one not the 50 to 55 or 80 to 85 or 95 to 96. They don't want to hear about the top end stuff because it doesn't sound it sounds more exclusionary, right? Because by definition, most people are on the come up as opposed to closer to the top. But I think it's important to give people an idea of what are the pitfalls that are coming up for you. If you do what you say that you want to achieve, which is become better in whatever it is that you want, even becoming better as a a parent, becoming better as a dog owner, becoming better as a friend or whatever, as you become more advanced, there will be fewer and fewer people that can give you advice about what you're going to come up against. Anyway, point is people that are prepared to show up and do boring things as their situation becomes more luxurious uh uh feels sort of opulent. You know, if you're a world champion Chinese weightlifter, I imagine you've probably got your meals cooked for you. You'll have body work. You'll have a coach. You'll have a mindset person. You'll have friends. You'll be living in a house that's probably quite nicely put together. a a a bed that's constructed for your particular physiology, firmness, all that sort of stuff. And you think, how do you remain hungry to go in and do an hour of mobility work four times a week when you have your meals cooked for you and you've got a customuilt pillow and stuff and that >> uh preparedness to accept no matter how good I get at this thing, >> I will always have to do boring [ __ ] >> And that's not a bug, it's a feature. And not only is it a feature, it's a source of competitive advantage because as things get more cubrious as you as you raise up through the ranks, other people will have the same thought that you do, which is I shouldn't need to do this [ __ ] anymore. You go, okay, so if you can continue to lean into the stuff that you did at the start, at the end, that's where the competitive advantage lies, I Yeah, I was uh I was just doing the math to make sure I knew what it all added up to. But not even including cuz before the bodybuilding shows that I just did like I was dieting for like 5 months, but just counting the year from January until that first show, the a 3month period, there was 5 days straight of cardio. It was 100 It was 120 hours because it was um it was 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes after the workout for two of those months and then for one of those months was an hour in the morning and an hour after. So five, like who would even be able to watch five hours of something like that, let alone or five days of something like that, >> let alone do it. >> And that's the stuff I don't show off cuz I mean, for one, nobody would even care to watch it. But it's um it's like a it's like a hidden quest in a video game where it's actually the most valuable thing or like it's straight out of Indiana Jones when he's got to pick uh the premise is he's in this kind of magical cave if you haven't seen it and there's a million gold like there's a hundred gold chalicees >> and they're all super flashy and if you pick the correct one you get in eternal life or something whatever. So there's two guys that show up. It was Indiana Jones and then another like villain guy. And he picks the flashiest, most diamond encrusted one he could get his hands on, like what he thinks would be the trick, drinks from it, instantly dead or something like that. It's been a while. And then Indiana Jones picks the scrappy wooden one. And that was the secret, the one that was understated. >> And it's um so that gets me motivated to do that kind of stuff and track all my cardio and calories and everything >> because I know it's value because I've done it and gotten the value from it. So, I know that it actually like is the trick, but if you if you've never done it, you don't have that proof. And it's it's always a what if. And that's everything. Like that's honestly that's the um at least state side that's you're kind of programmed to do that. Middle school, high school, okay, you have to go to college to get this job to do this. Like the idea of doing getting into like a trade or getting into like I think I have this awesome business idea. That is the minority by far to branch off from this conditioned path. And it's not like it's bad, but so so many people might have been able to do so many awesome things if they could really do what they wanted to do instead of just, you know, following the beaten path. >> Bro, if you're succeeding at a life that you hate, imagine how great you'd be at one that you actually enjoyed. that there's so many people that are crushing it and then not fired up for what they do. Imagine how good you could be if you actually woke up on a morning and were excited for what you were about to do. >> Like it was a and that might just be a time thing. Like there's a video of Seinfeld in an interview and you know I don't I don't know if I'd call him the greatest source of whatever but he's like you know back you know back in the in the '9s back in the '8s the flex was like what do you do for work and that's a little different cuz I mean inflation and you know whatever but at the time at least it was oh this guy has a cooler job than me. M. >> Oh, this guy works at a guitar shop. That's cool. >> Mhm. >> I'm a freaking accountant. That's just paper everything. And it's um like it's very monetarily driven. Like uh it's it's what are the three classics? It's like sex, drugs, and money. That's, you know, monetized social media wise in its own way, the sex side. But in regular Instagram and when it comes to um or at least the money side, that you don't have to do anything. You don't have to be an interesting guy at all. If you get your hands on a super fancy car and make some videos about it, you didn't even have you could know someone who had it and he let you and that's your whole gimmick. Just the fact that you like have something this valuable. And for me, I'm like that sucks. Like you didn't you didn't do anything to get that. And the ones that did, well, they don't even care to show it off because they are kind of, you know, comfortable enough with wherever they're at where it's like guys who say, "Oh, dude, I'm going to do a bodybuilding show. I'm going to make it. I'm going to be the next whoever." My thought on that is always you're trying to essentially argue your case to the universe and internally in your mind that you know kind of idea to want to propel like convince everyone you can do it may come from an internal doubt of I don't know if I can do it but I want to I want to do it. I don't know if I can do it. >> I'm going to tell everyone I can do it and then maybe I'll be able to convince myself. So, it's not bad to want to say that and then still really go after it. But like, however I'm wired, I don't exactly want to talk about what I'm going to do. And it might be a little bit of a defense mechanism for me cuz if I have a plan to do something and then it totally flopped. >> Well, no one knew I was going. >> You don't set a goal, you can't fail. >> Nobody knew I was going to do it. So, I don't But I don't think it's as much of that as it is like, you know, on the social media side. If I said I was going to do a bodybuilding show in six months, the whole time people would people would say like he's not going to do it. So I'm like, I don't want to even talk about it. >> So usually it's like, okay, 12 weeks out videos, you know, transformation programs, like just really hyping it up months in advance. So for me with mine, it was like, all right, we're doing a show in like 3 days. Just >> we're already we're already ready. >> Yeah. >> Not even to give anybody the opportunity to think it wouldn't happen. Mhm. >> Cuz then you just do it and that's already way more impactful because then anybody could say they're going to do it. But to actually like have that belief very firmly or it's not even a belief. It's like an under it's I want to have an understanding that I know I can get where I want to go where it's to the point where you don't believe that if I knock this water is going to spill everywhere. You know it. you know, that's what is going to happen from the circumstance. So, if you're really I and maybe in the beginning, I'm sure some of it was just from optimal delusion, but I think you might even need some of that just to get started. But now, it's to the point where I know what I'll be capable of or I know what I am capable of, and I want to at least reach that level of, you know, effort and consistency with the things that I'm really into. I'm not like that with everything, >> but with the working out, at least very specifically, like that's my thing. You know, all your eggs in not all your eggs in one basket most, >> but if most of them are in there, you should give it a lot of attention. >> And I know I'll feel better if I do. >> This episode is brought to you by Momentus. Trust really is everything when it comes to supplements. A lot of brands may say that they're top quality, but very few can actually prove it, which is why I partnered with Momentous. They make the highest quality supplements on the planet. And I've fallen in love with their whey isolate protein powder. It's grass-fed. It is a super convenient way to get more protein into your diet, lean muscle mass, muscle growth, recovery, all that stuff. But most of all, it just tastes phenomenal. Most clean proteins do not taste good. And this is better than anything else. It's also NSF and inform sport certified, meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it and is guaranteed to be free of banned substances. 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When it comes to prep, first bodybuilding show this year, >> male body dysmorphia is on track to overtake female body dysmorphia within a couple of decades. >> What's your relationship with the mirror like? >> I was definitely feeling it a little because you are it's one day where you just really depleted all your water like you will never look like that on a regular day-to-day basis. And also, I mean, it's also kind of an interesting look. like do you really want to look like a stage bodybuilder all the time? Like I get so I get the allure there for the day, but afterward like actually eating more food and kind of getting a little bit softer just from because that's the nature of it. That was actually when I did feel it a little cuz I was just looking at the absolute craziest version of myself ever. And now I'm not that. But it's kind of a it's it's more of a mental thing where what do you imagine yourself as? When you think of Chris Williamson, are you thinking awesome lighting, huge, jacked, ripped, pumped up? >> Yes. Keep going. I'm thinking or at least I try to like imagine myself more so as like just like how I look in the day. Like the the more that or the larger I've gotten just in like the the pursuit of size, the more comfortable I've gotten with like just the fact that I'm as big as I am where I I don't feel the need to like only post my biggest picture >> and like even go so far as to like photoshop it or like that's just that sucks. Not only is that like you're just lying by doing that, which for the people you're showing is that's that's stupid, that's rough, but you're lying to yourself because you're definitely looking at that picture and thinking, "Yeah, that's how I look." >> That's not how you look. When I'm when I'm pumped up in the gym, that is its own circumstance, which is cool in its own way, and then I can go back to what I normally look like. And for me, I've been so like real progress driven with the gym where I'm not so concerned with how do I look today for everyone who's gonna see me. >> And those guys are the guys who stay lean all year round, always posting Instagram >> because they're scared of getting too fluffy to make the longerterm progress. >> Well, maybe not scared in every case because if that's the look that you really want, then you're good. That's sweet. Like you you actually kind of did it. >> But if you're someone where you actually are scared of that, then that's the motivation. It's just fear of, you know, looking a little softer or anything. And I mean, we're not helping. You know, guys who post a really crazy picture aren't exactly helping the situation cuz they're showing a totally crazy version. >> But it's that's where I mean, it's just how it is. So, it's kind of your responsibility to try to grasp it more objectively. Like, these guys look like this because of everything that they're doing. >> You can't forget that. >> Mhm. Do you see this with the fans that you interact with? uh you know, you've got young followers. What's your demographic? What's the >> It's wide. It's It's um It's probably evenly dispersed between 18 and below, 18 to like 30, and then 30 and above. >> Okay. >> Cuz I'll get I mean, I'm I'm getting off flights and like this older pilot is like, "How's my landing, Sam?" >> I was like like it took me a second, but like way wider than I ever would have guessed. Well, even within that, right, guys, I guess of all ages. Um, >> yeah, we're everybody's in the gym. >> The male body dysmorphia thing just I think it really fascinates me. I think we've got a good cultural narrative and archetype around um, you know, body positivity for all that there were lots of things that was maybe a little contrived with that for women. >> I don't think we've had the same sort of a movement for men. And I think that that's why this male body dysmorphia thing really really ramping up. I mean, you you saw Bigger, Stronger, Faster, right? Where um Luke Skywalker action figure in the 60s was sort of like nerdy dude, and then in the '9s, you know, he's been doing 5x5 for a few years, and then by sort of the 2000s, he's been on a very, very heavy course of trend, and you go, why does Luke Skywalker need striated delts? Um, so you've got this big flation thing that's going on, >> but that's not new. I mean, when did Rocky come out? >> That's true. That's true. But I I think if you were to look at how prevalent that's been, the saturation level of Yeah. If Rocky as a boxer is ripped, yeah. Is it unrealist? Are many boxers that built? Probably not. But like at the very least, the >> nerdy dude that like swings the lightsaber around, probably not him. >> Um but there's no area now that's beyond somebody being jacked for it. Uh I'm just interested in what what you're seeing from your audience and what you think for sort of younger generations even younger than you that are coming up now to try and have this balance. I want to look better but I don't want to I don't want to feel in deficit and I I don't want to go through life hating the mirror. >> Yeah, that's um that's definitely an angle I have to bring up or that is someone like to be looked at. But in in terms of the situation, I think guys are always going to have it easier because as much of a standard as there is, it's still not the same as for women. And guys are more likely to look at things as like, [ __ ] man, I'm just fat. Like if you're if you're like that could just be like like guys will joke around with each other like that because like that's just kind of how we are. It's a little more I don't want to say playful, but you could you could say kind of blunt like that. But it it's not as likely to eat at us. You know, I'm not exactly the guy to go to to be like, "What was it like to lose 300 lb?" I could try to guess. I don't know for sure, but I I think it's definitely increasing the more prevalent fitness is becoming, but it's a it's something where another middle ground like, okay, I either have to look like a Ronnie Coleman or like a Greg Plit or I'm completely worthless, >> which is this side of the scale, which that sucks. or man, I don't care how I look. I'm going to be 400 lb and I'm going to love it. There's no problem with this at all. And that's that sucks, too. So, there is a middle ground of where I think it's important to you can be your own like worst critic, but it's different if your own worst if you're your own worst hater. >> You can tell yourself you have things that you want to work on, but to really like self-depreciate and like I'm just such a I I hate to hear it. I'll see guys where they I'm into the gym and it's it's always the same guy I reference here because it was so egregious. Every time I'd come in to work out, he's like, "Oh, how you doing, man?" He's like, "Shit, squand. I hate it. I want to get out of here." But he's not joking. And I mean, for him, that's where it goes back to like sometimes it's a self soothing behavior to say, "Oh, this all sucks so bad." And you're like releasing your responsibility for the situation. Like, oh, everything sucks. Oh, just how it is. But it's um yeah, that's what I really like to hear the most because for a high school guy to go from like 160 normal looking dude to pretty big. I mean, after a year of only working out, no diet at all, you can look pretty good. Like you drastically different, but it didn't take that much >> cuz you do get that early starting point of well, you were already pretty lean. >> Noob newb gains are real, dude. >> Yeah, newbie gains. right in the beginning, you're the most susceptible to your training. So, for someone to show me their, you know, fat loss transformation, like, dude, look at this picture. And it's not the guy I'm looking at right now. Like, it's 150 lbs. So, these guys will could be in like my gyms that I go to and he's with his dad and like we get a little picture and then, you know, he walks off and does a sit and then his dad's telling me he's like, "Dude, he started watching you talk about dieting. Like, he really got into it. I never could have guessed this would happened. Like completely changed the dude's life. And but not cuz I said something, but because he like took the action to do it. And when someone does that, like out of honestly out of everything, even someone who like had a regular like maybe they started off a little leaner, they got pretty big, they had a big bench or something like I'm always more impressed and I can actually like get a look just something about like I know that you know about the things that I really value. The doing cardio a ton, tracking your calories, going into your kitchen and like I want to eat something. I'm not going to do it though. I can I'm gonna handle this internal battle I'm giving myself >> and actually making it happen and like losing because losing so that much weight is like I don't know about 10 times but it's up there in a multiplicity of difficulty from just working out and liking it and getting a little more muscle. >> Mhm. >> So those are the guys where when I hear that I'm like we're going to talk for a little longer. Like we're not I'm going to we're going to have a little chat here. Like that's what I want to hear. You mentioned uh sort of some of the differences between guys and girls that you've gained what 100 poundsish probably something. Yeah. From bottom to top. >> 100. Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh >> a lot of muscle, great condition, you look fantastic on the stage. Given that most guys go to the gym in order to get attention from girls, >> what is the ratio of attention that you get from guys and girls now that you are in the big 200s? >> Yeah. Right. I don't uh I don't know about the if the social media stats are any indicator or like what your gender demographics are, but at least for my like long form videos where people are actually coming to watch me talk about working out and like the things that go along with it, it's um I I call them the 4enters because it's the 4% female viewers. And I mean it's not like unreasonable because I'm talking about working out as a guy from a guy's perspective. Uh, but I mean I'll I'll chime in because sometimes I'll be like, "I'm sorry. I'm not I don't I'm not the guy to watch for glute training." So, it's sometimes where if someone's, you know, dude, I I want to get into a serious like I'm I'm going to really lock in. I want to know what it's like to lose 300 lb. I want to know what it's like to whatever. Like, that's where I'm going to say you I can tell you what I know, but if you want to watch someone who did it, then you got to watch somebody else and kind of get inspired from their track. >> What about IRL? Because you know guys that might not even know who you are as you're getting bigger like dude like what are you doing for arms? >> The many girls that come up and go Sam like you your forearms are getting so big. >> So that's that's one thing which was not the motivation because the guys who think like even the idea is strange. Oh if I was a big if I was just bigger girls would be all over me. If I if my delts were a little that's not that's not the value system for sure. It's not how it works in your >> but uh but if you get big enough they will come up and talk to you and they'll say my brother loves you. >> My my boyfriend loves you. Could you take a picture so I could send it to him? Because I see you on his phone so much that they they don't watch the videos but they see him like secondarily. So it actually if you get big enough girls will talk to you because they will come up and ask you for a picture for their dad. There's a a meme online that you have a a fear of women. >> Yeah. So that that plays back into the earlier Tik Toks. >> Okay. >> Where I my formula, which I just thought was funny, but like how all my things were was if you want to post a video about working out and like a 10-second little short, like you might think you want to talk about how serious the gym is or have like a like don't even do a caption. just just say like grind or like you don't know what it takes. But how I've always looked at it is like if you're big, you have already said that you are serious. Like unspokenly just from how you are as a guy or what the the video was. Like clearly you're serious because you have these results that you're showing off in the video. To say anything like a motivational just thing on top of that, which like if it's a motivational video, that's different. But in terms of like regular kind of content, like you're putting a hat on a hat. For me, it's like post a workout video that's just really cool and hype and of the workout and I'm like lifting bench at 3:15, but then the caption is like just something silly, >> something you wouldn't expect cuz it's like, you know, I the only reason I would get strong is so I can protect my cats at home or like it's like I had to cut this workout short today. My mom had to pick me up to go get groceries or like like something silly cuz that's not something you'd expect. And everybody always posted like you'd want to post like, "Oh, I'm so serious." >> Door grind said. >> Yeah. So it's it's almost like, you know, just you can be if you're serious enough about something, it's even funnier when you're silly with something else. >> What's that got to do with the fear of women thing? >> Cuz that's his own joke. You would think big brolic guy like just from what we were saying before, it's like, oh, you're working out to get girls. That is kind of And I didn't come up with that joke. Like I saw it before it kind of just like it happened to scale a little more with me, but it's like that's its own joke of like, "Oh, you just this big like masculine dude, whatever." Like, "Can I work in with you?" And then in the video I just like disappear like teleport >> cuz that's that's just something that you would expect. Like it's funny. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then it but you know then it bled into like real life where like we did meet and greets and like the first time I ever took a picture and there was a girl there all the comments were like >> what the I thought he was what >> they feel like they'd been betrayed. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it's like what do you in a world where that was actually the case? What you want there to be like guys this mean greets guys only? >> Yeah. Well, like that that wouldn't uh you're at least going to get 4% based on your demo. >> It's 4%. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Instagram's 20%, but that's cuz it's Instagram >> cuz that cuz that's not like really watching your stuff. >> Like I think the most real viewers and the most real feedback and comments that's on the YouTube cuz there's a lot of intent to watch a whole workout or even some of a workout. >> Whereas on Instagram, you can just something can be shown to you, scroll it away, it's like nothing. you were posting on You may still do Spotify video. I think >> there's stuff that gets reposted there. >> That's not you. That's not your channel. >> I'll get into it. It's I've got a couple of things where it's like on the list of things to kind of like track down or get control of. >> They do video now. So, you can basically >> Yeah. So, you can just plug it over there. >> The whole thing. Yeah. I think that'll be good cuz people It would certainly work to listen to. >> Yeah. Cuz you can just listen to the whole thing. in there. >> That's that's something where if it was an audio form, I'd probably cut some of that out instead of the workout sounds and ASMR, I'd probably just say what the workout was in its own little segment in the middle and then talk about it after. >> Yeah. >> Cuz I Yeah, that's its own joke. Like it'll be, "Dude, don't watch this video without headphones." >> Or my wife came in and she thought I was watching like whatever. Y >> and it's so I actually think I I don't know. I just that for me that makes me feel like I'm keeping it real. >> But is it too much? >> So I don't know. I'm not too worried about it. >> Before we continue, you are probably not eating enough fruit and vegetables and you know it. And this is going to help. Good news. AG1 just released their nextgen formula. It is a more advanced clinically backed version of the product that I've been drinking every day for years. 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How much are you thinking about longevity at the moment and trade-offs? >> That's one thing I I'll bring up because it's like guys will ask me it's like are you going to move to open? Are you gonna or it's can't wait to see you as Mr. Olympia? Like as though it's that's the track that I'm on. And for me it's more so it's like okay what am I willing to do that adds to this whole thing with bodybuilding that will take me you know a certain degree of distance right? Because if you're a top level Olympia competitor, that comes with its own things, you know, like it's not as though bodybuilding on a competitive level is, and you I might not be the one to say recommend cuz I'm not like a complete uh G of bodybuilding like a Jay Cutler or like a real commentator or a judge would be who's been in the sport for years. But it's like it's not something to be pursued forever. Like actually the bigger I've gotten, the more I've started to be content with the size that I already am where I used to imagine 300 pound Sam Sulick. I'm like, "Yeah, once I get to 300, that'll start to be." But it's uh it's something where when you actually get to a different position just over time and like through progress, you're going to have a different perception of like what you actually want because even though you may have reached that level from having a certain goal, >> now you're a completely different person with different circumstances and as good as that goal may have been to motivate you in the beginning, >> like sometimes that can change. >> Yeah, dude. That's >> and it's not a giving up. It's just you've gotten a better perspective and now you know more to make a better decision. >> That's a really fantastic point that adjusting your goals as you get closer to them to some people feels like uh seeding ground. Um you've already done the hard part. Why are you not applying more pressure and and and and really really pushing? But the same as what you considered to be a good dish when you were starting out as a chef will not be what you consider to be a good dish as you become more sophisticated and that dish may be more simple. >> So you may start out making these really complex things with 500 ingredients and you think well actually you know just a good pasta like I can just nail a good pasta and I think that that's pretty sweet. So yeah, the ability to discern good from bad, like taste, like what's something that's a tasteful goal for me to go towards? What's something that resonates? How do I realize as I get closer to something that maybe the ladder I was climbing was kind of leaning up against the wrong wall a little bit, so I'm just going to adjust it and I'm going to keep climbing over here. >> And it's uh with with bodybuilding at least, there's a few examples. I mean, actually, I'm sure there's thousands where it's just it's not highlighted on social media, so I wouldn't have any input on when this might happen. But with bodybuilding, it's uh it's not something I'd recommend for everyone. Like when I see the like I I I'd say it's prevalence now, like the idea of I need to be a bodybuilder or like a younger guy saying I have to be able to get on stage at a certain point. I uh I think it's a a bit over inflated in its value because it's very showy. You only see that like little flashy kind of point at the end. And it's also in a scope of social media where like as much as I'm not trying to overdo it and make myself like look cooler or better or like portray the crazy lifestyle that I might actually live like it's still kind of flashy in its presentation. So if you get obsessed with like the idea of something to actually approach what that real thing is and now your idea of it is actually going to become a real understanding of it and you'll realize like [ __ ] man I wouldn't I like there's guys where they've gone pro like they really got into it they were 100% serious and then they realize this isn't for me I'm going to I'm going to not like backpedal isn't the right word I'm going to just redirect towards something which I actually value now >> and if at any point that would happen then that's what I would do. >> How do you now personally weigh health versus aesthetics? You've got this >> Well, I mean everybody uh there's actual like numerical metrics, you know, everyone's getting their like honestly I think everybody should be getting their blood tested even just out of curiosity. >> That's something you're doing regularly. >> Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's definitely like anybody who's serious about bodybuilding, they're all getting relatively extensive blood tests pretty regularly. And if they're not, then like you are missing out. >> But what sucks is actually it's um I'm kind of spoiled cuz my general practitioner will order all my stuff like a full pan of everything. >> Whereas a lot of doctors like I I'll hear stories where it's like, you know, can I just get like can I just get my test leveled? A normal dude. Nah, you you're young. you don't have to worry about something like that. And it's um like I mean I'm sure you've got your own take on it, but it's just kind of this behind the curve sort of thing cuz that's something like could what if you're a guy where you're straight up hypoganatal and you're you might be literally whatever value is barely any. >> Mhm. >> That could totally >> 50s or the 200s or something. Well, I'm saying like if if there was somebody where they were under 100 and it's like you didn't have any control over that and if your hormones are totally out of whack, then that would be warrant for intervention. And that was something that would be totally like doctor viewed. But what I see a lot is you could take that statement and stretch it as far as it could go to justify the craziest things. like it's with uh and I see it a lot in training. A 50-year-old ex 900 lb squatter complete like real experience and respect in the space will make a video and he's training now still and he's been training for 40 years or 35 years and he'll say, you know, right now it's back squats. They're just not the the reward risk to reward ratio. It's not there. It's too much on my lower back. My knees are they've been kind of worn. like it's so for me I've got to stick to more like lighter leg press and you know just more kind of stable movements and that's backed by his situation and someone who is kind of starting a little earlier in the gym they might not have an awesome like grasp of everything will hear that and then that's an easy argument to say well this guy said you don't even need to squat I'm not squatting dude squats like not even an acceptance of like I don't want to squat that's why I don't do it. >> But just this um >> you know trying to bring the bar down to their level of like well I'm not willing to squat. I don't want to do it. >> If I can justify why I don't need to do it then actually I'm not skipping anything. I'm doing it right by doing less. >> What's the uh line? What's the linkage or analogy between that and the bloods? >> Yeah. Well, it's just um cuz then some you know somebody could say oh you know my test was probably super low anyway. they didn't even get a somebody could say it's like you know I I looked at I was looking at WMD and it's like the so I don't bring that up as much but the the normaly and like the um kind of the conditioned of just like that's not a big deal like that's not something I'm >> bro let me give you this let me give you this according to the American neurological association 25% of patients on TRT never had their testosterone checked One third weren't even deficient. I saw that last week. >> But what's the age demographic? Because if that's like if that's still like what somebody would conventionally say a normal age to be like a 35 above I think that's a much different situation than anything earlier because you're literally still a developing dude you know like you that's that is a thing that you are messing with which is not just like it's just you know whatever. We were talking before we got started about um some of the challenges you have healthwise with bulking up and what that does to you, the way that you feel. You've already mentioned mobility. Uh what what are some of the unseen uh side effects of gaining so much weight in such such a short space of time as a young dude? >> Yeah. And it's um so that's one thing that's kind of interesting because there's this sort of I almost want to say just what you would call your how you're carrying the weight that you're carrying. Cuz right now I'm I'm like I'm 250 and I'm I'm actually a little bit lighter from this whole week of everything we've been doing and not eating as much food and traveling. But still like I feel very light. Like I do not feel as though I'm I'm super heavy because in the range of like my big and bulked weight to like my lighter carb depleted maybe a little less hydrated weight like I'm on the bottom end of that scale whereas like 2 years ago for me to really bulk up to 250 and be a very water retentive like it felt completely different like bend over to put your shoes on and like you can feel you're like you're almost holding your breath cuz there's so much pressure like you had a you got a full stomach like just things like that but the scale really could I mean it's it's so gradual or no it's so extensive cuz anything that I could say like like I fit in an airplane seat fine like I still that's not that's an Eddie Hall >> Ronnie Coleman >> Ryan Shaw problem >> problem yeah like I'm big but I'm still like relatively human- shaped you know >> like like muscle does not exceed my frame like if you looked at um like a very good example would be a Derek Eric Lensford. >> Yes. >> And I I'll I'll bring him up sometimes cuz he's got a really interesting look cuz you could basically describe him as you took a regular I mean you took a regular lean guy and you just dragged the muscle scale all the way to the max because I mean sometimes to even get to that size like it it it just has an effect. >> What's way >> he's got to be heavy. I don't know in the exact terms and it's different when you're shorter too. So someone who's 6'3 at 200 is very different than someone at 5'4 at 200. So he's uh well he's heavy but he's like crazy big. >> So for him he's got his own that's where like when we were talking on our panel talk yesterday when the guy said like what have you had to change about your sleeve from being so big like those guys must have their own stories or like maybe they >> industrial strength CPAP machine. >> I I can't even say that'd be for them. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do you think about discipline? I'm interested in where you go for drive when motivation is low. >> Yeah. I think cuz I don't usually think to my I never have selft talk in my mind where I say like I need to be more disciplined right now because and it's maybe just because of what motivated me to get into it in the beginning like I just never like that was never my mantra of a word. And with anything working out related, I um I guess I almost feel like I'm on a like sometimes I feel a little um hypocritical when I'll say like typically good motivational like okay even if you feel like you're not going to get after it like you just got to like know that you're going to regret it if you don't things along those lines. But for the most part, like I kind of treat it as this, like this is going to happen. Like there is no like the idea of okay, I need to take a break or I need to take a rest day today. I'm getting better at it cuz it is objectively necessary at times. >> I'm getting better at taking a rest day. >> I think they're unnecessarily taken a lot, which makes me like a little more tentative because it's like I know people are skipping just cuz they didn't want to do it. And it's the same thing as the logic of the guy who actually did an objectively correct thing. I'm a little fatigued. I can feel it. The muscle that I was going to hit today is even a little sore and I didn't really get a lot of food or water today. A rest. If I stay home and really refuel and get a good night's rest and do this workout tomorrow, it will objectively be better for my long-term progress. Mhm. >> And someone could pretend they're using that logic and justify I don't want to go today. Rest days are actually good. You know, you rest days are good and then they take two weeks off. That's the other extreme I think of uh on the scale of no rest days ever to two weeks at a time on the regular. This isn't a middle ground that's like right here. It's much more on this side of things. And it's uh I think you're a different guy if you go even when you don't want to or when you subjectively have extra difficulties because now you're the guy who did it even when it was hard and it's like you know nobody knows that you did it. even uh when I was dieting for a few of the workouts towards the end, like I was super low energy. Like I'm like I'm doing three sets of pull downs and I don't feel warm at all until like the fourth one and I'm recording it and for me it's like there's different levels of actualized thought where like if you think something, you know, and you constantly think the same thing, you can start to ingrain it in your mind. And if but if you say something and you consistently say like, "Oh man, I'm so tired as you're convincing yourself that it's true." You're making it true. >> And also, I'm not going to like I don't like guys when they complain in a prep cuz if I'm trying to watch someone else's video of like them working towards something, I don't want half the things they're saying to be like, "Yeah, I feel like [ __ ] man. This sucks. I really don't even want to be here." Like that's So I don't even like the idea of anything like that. But so for that workout where I'm dying like it was really hard. >> 400 milligrams of caffeine >> was not getting its direct translation >> but >> Oh. All right. That was a good one. Let's move on to the next one. >> Walk, walk, walk. Turn the camera off. >> But but it's like because I and it's not even like a a portrayal of that because I bring that up as soon as that show is done. Like I brought that up. I'm like, "Guys, I was dying on a few of those lifts like hard." I didn't want to show it, though, cuz like I want to, >> you know, you're kind of you've got this mental version of what the world is when you think about it. >> And if you can think about it in a better way, it'll kind of bleed into like actual reality. >> Yeah. You're sort of faking it until you believe it. >> Yeah. >> Well, look, the devil's in the details with this. When should I take a rest day? Uh versus like, am I taking a day off because I might get injured today? I'm not slept well. I really need it. Exactly. >> Or am I selling myself short? Am I not allowing myself to say these things out loud or uh attach worth to these thoughts because I'm uh denying what is actually true because this is better for me in the long run because it's a positive mindset. Am I being honest with the audience if I don't put forward the weaker version of me that I don't want to be? or am I being more honest if I do put it forward? It's infinite spiral of >> I think that that at least that last portion gets a little well I I think it'd be its own thing where it's a completely different perception that I'm like portraying. >> I think it's different when you like you might say something then like in a situation like that and then later like guys remember when I was super high energy for that back day >> that was not it. I think it kind of balance out when you say that later but that's something to think about for all of them for sure. Well, how many times have people in an argument with a partner said something that they then later regretact in the moment, a heated moment of a diet or an argument, we often say stuff that's random. >> Yeah, that's a that's one thing getting back to um we were saying something a second ago about like different kind of thought processes and things >> and one of probably one of my first like what you kind of call Eureka moment of like self-realization. I was like in high school and I imagine Sam Sulic pissed like beyond belief and it's like you know for whatever not even anything serious like in the moment this was the worst thing ever. I'm in the shower. I'm like sitting there just doing and I I was I take a go dude being this like upset is just so tiring. Like what am I doing? like that and I hadn't been into any kind of uh or like motivational speaker like thought control kind of not thought control but like thought like you know kind of controlling your own thoughts like what you think of things or anything like that but that was the first time I had a certain kind of reflection of like what am I even doing right now this is not this is not even necessary and this also sucks and it was like a good little just all right let's chill out here >> do you get angry you seem pretty chill all the time >> I'm I'm much more chill now I Like I wasn't I was never not chill like I was never like fighting anybody or anything but I think over time I've become much more chill for sure. >> Is that a cultivated practice or do you think that's just you? a little a little cult like I was um there's this one YouTube channel it's called grave mind right and it's kind of small but they it's a lot of um it's a lot of just excerpts from like uh all sorts of like Marcus Aurelius kind of or like the stoic mind like all sorts of little books like that like I've never gotten into like where I sit and I read a whole thing or anything like some of those ideas are very kind of translatable to the training so it was half training because it's like the better of a you know kind of head and direction a thing that's controlling your training the better the training will be. So it wasn't exactly a like you know self-help thought process of trying to learn more about how you are as a person. >> It was like this is actually going to make my training better. That was kind of the motivation. But it definitely >> extends into just all of life. >> But it's like you know there's things you can't control. There's things you can control. to be upset about anything unnecessarily. You just you're stressing yourself out for no reason and you're creating your own negative energy by like looking at something in that light. So just a lot of like I got into that for like a couple of I see maybe like a month. I I like watch a lot of those videos and I took whatever I took from them and I think it was it put me on a better mental path >> and it's um but like it's a little silly to say just for the regular person to hear cuz it's like all the cliches of like you know the grass isn't always greener on the other side or like you know just whichever ones and they're so just like random like you just spit them out. You don't really take it in. But if in like if you ever have a situation in life where you screw up or something bad happened or whatever and then you think of one of those cuz you're like, "Oh [ __ ] that was actually true." >> That that was literally me just now where it's um you know, you're going to come across a problem you didn't expect and to you know, kind of cower from it or just like pretend it didn't actually happen. It's it's something where you kind of and I think with a training for me when I'm doing all these videos and like really talk it's a lot of self-reflection practice because now instead of just a thought about how my training is going I'm putting it out into like real words and really like you know cuz I don't the the whole point of all the things I post is the objective take on you know working out from Sam of the perspective of whatever that day was. So even if I said something that may have been in the moment objective like I was saying like this is what I believe a year later I could say something else. >> I reserve the right to change my mind. >> I'm a different guy. >> Yeah. I'm a different guy. I've done different things. I've seen different things. I've met different people. To be the same guy over time is I mean that would just suck. >> Well that would be even less authentic. >> Yeah. There's a I think one of the problems with anybody putting anything out on the internet, whether you're a content creator or a person that your mom that posts on Facebook, >> because we have this concrete record of everything that everybody has ever said throughout all of time, what you end up with >> is the opportunity for people to call out what on the outside looks like hypocrisy, but from the inside is just updating your worldview and learning and developing and growing. Yeah. and confusing those two and the quickness of people to say, "Well, you didn't say that before. You didn't agree with 45 minutes of cardio. I thought it was 30, Sam. Was it not 30 in the last prep?" And >> the incentive there is for people to not say that they have changed their mind when they've changed their mind. >> If And it also encourages people to never actually state their opinions. >> That's that's what I was about to say. if you know that you have had a few things where you look back and say, "Yeah, I actually don't do I don't drink a protein shake with 100 grams of sugar in it anymore." >> I did at the time and I'm like, >> "Was that something you used to do?" >> He's like, "Well, post-workout you're very sensitive to an insulin response." >> You [ __ ] will be if you put 100 grams of sugar. >> 100 g is literally just straight sugar and like two scoops of protein. >> You're kidding me. >> Well, it was dextrose, the highest glycemic index sugar there is. >> And that and it's it's not like it didn't work. >> I bet you felt great after that. I one of them came back up when I got back to the uh when I got back to the apartment and then I made another one to replace it. But that was like I had just eaten a huge meal too. So, but so I would I would not recommend them as much now. But also I can't say that it was like completely foolish because it worked towards what my goals were. >> So it's it's just something >> is partly built by 100 gram sugar protein shakes. >> Exactly. Yeah. So, it's like, you know, it's just part of the journey of things. And that's something bodybuilders, um, like that's another like if you could say something that's a little different about how I've talked about everything is for them, it's always been this portrayal of I'm only eating rice and chicken and broccoli and that's all and I never cheat. I never eat anything else when you record like a CD for bodybuilding. But really, these guys are eating all sorts of junk. Like Lee Priest is uh he's he's unapologetic in the sense that he's going to say everything how it is. >> He's a fat boy >> and he's he's like I mean McDonald's I mean I'm just eating to get big man. If you get fat in the offseason that's how it is. Then you can diet. So I um for me and now my statement or what my current take is on like trying to leverage growth from increased calorie input >> is like you know bulk but don't get too fat like cuz if you they'll call it a perma bulk where it's like dude you have you have gained 40 lbs and 30 lbs of that was not muscle. >> Mhm. And that's where, well, now you're kind of screwed cuz you got to lose it. But there is a there is a sweet spot where you will gain a little bit of body fat, you know, 10 lbs, whatever. And I think what throws people off is for one, like maybe they want to they want to do it. They want to eat for like a couple months, get a little bigger, and then diet back down. I think it could be like, I don't know if I'm going to be able to diet. I know people don't like diets. They've never done it, but they hear what people say about it. I don't know if I could do it. Maybe I don't want to do it. But it's also, oh man, I got my bicep vein right now, though. I can see my abs right now. I don't want to lose that. >> And for me, I get a I I've got a picture and it's a three-month difference, and it's insane because it's me like eating a bunch of trash. Well, not even not actually, it's it's improved gradually. Like now more food is like you're putting more it's I think of it about it like putting more things through like a fine filter. And it's like the more additives and just like whatever. Like not as though I'm picking out specific ones. We're like I'm never going to eat Red 40 because of the but it's like just on a basic convention biased like I know this is a good a big bowl of oatmeal and ground beef and like a semi-natural barbecue sauce is going to make me feel good >> but more so it won't make me feel bad. >> Yes. >> And I can eat more of those. So it's just an objective take that that is better. But in the time when I was eating like a full pint of like vanilla ice cream and a protein shake, >> the logic was well there's a ton of calories in this. I can eat it very quickly. >> I am gaining weight. The goal that I am trying to achieve is being achieved. Is it exactly the most optimal way? >> Well, sometimes you kind of have to you got to screw up. I know what I I said a good way of saying this, but it's like you have to learn from your mistakes so you can be better later. So it's not make mistakes on purpose, >> but when you do like and you realize they were wrong. >> Yeah. Exactly. So the problem isn't making them. The problem would be not learning from them. >> A quick aside, if you've been feeling a bit sluggish, your testosterone levels might be the problem. They play a huge role in your energy, focus, and performance. 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So, you can get the exact same blood panels that I get and save $100 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom. That's functionhealth.com/moddernwisdom. What do you think are the biggest mistakes that people make when it comes to diet when trying to build muscle? >> I Oh, it's because it's it's very black and white, I feel, because you're either a real hardcore like I'm going to track everything. I got a scale or I'm like pretty good at reading all the nutrition labels and I'll make sure I eat enough food because it's really you're either eating enough or you're not. And for someone like no one is going to track their calories 25% of the time like the nobody's going to be on their diet 50% of the time and even if they were well then it's not going to work. You're not going to notice any substantial changes from it because um like dieting the scrutiny I consider close to the scrutiny of like uh getting a medical degree. It's not like getting a business degree or an accounting degree or something where you know you got a 2.0 GPA. Here you go. You did it. You know, 70 average, you pass. Like if I only dieted 70% of the time or 70% as, you know, somehow 70% of what was actually necessary, then if I went on stage, I' i'd look a fool. I'd be literally way too soft. in in relation to the guys who actually did it like or or even someone just trying to lose weight, >> you can be on it 70% of the day, you could be on it 95% of the day and that >> a lot of damage in that 5% >> 5 minutes unfiltered in a pantry. You can completely you can completely unsound like a Sam Sulic sex tape. Five minutes unfiltered in a pantry, >> but you can completely undo all your work. And uh that happens a lot. I was good today. I'm gonna have a milkshake. >> Mhm. >> Just ruined it >> just with the one thing. >> But the margins are very tight, right? >> Yeah. Because you're either in a deficit and it's not necessarily on a day by day cuz sometimes you throw refeeds in or whatever, but you're either in a deficit consistently on average week by week >> or you're not. >> Or you're in a surplus consistently average week by week or you're not. And even if you and it's like honestly a week is probably a good chunk to describe because if I was in a good six days I can I can undo that in a day. >> Yeah. >> I can undo. So 300 calorie deficit for 6 days 18 1,800 calories is likeal. It's one meal or it's like half of a crazy meal if you're like really nuts and you're already cuz you're already in a in a dieted state. Like you're already subject to like suck up carbs. Like I've had um you know cuz rather than just reverse dieting very slowly like I I've had like a 10,000 calorie day one day and it wasn't like 10,000 calorie challenge like that was I tracked everything just cuz I wanted to know but like that's just what happened because I let the floodgates loose. 10,000 like a 4,000 calorie day on a Sunday could throw off all your stuff Saturday to Friday. >> So, it's um you know, it's something where these they either someone could either step it up enough where they actually make it happen or they're kind of just caught toiling or they just don't even want to deal with it. M >> and I know it's I'm not saying it's easy, >> but I'm saying if you do track everything on a scale and you count it all and you like disperse your meals evenly throughout the day so that you are not like dying hungry cuz you just starved yourself all day. Well then the likelihood that you'll actually like get lean if you did everything right it's like 100%. Where are the biggest uh vectors of weakness in uh dieting for you? For it sounds like you and me have the same thing, which is nighttime snacking tends to be a big temptation, which means if you can just discriminate a little bit more calorie expenditure toward the end of the day, you can go to bed feeling not like you're going to go do the pantry sex day. >> Yeah. I have never blown my calorie deficit from breakfast. It is always later in the day. So, what I do is I just wait till sometimes I'll just wait until kind of as late as I feel like. Usually noon is a good like when I cuz right now I'm going from eating a ton of food to now eating like basically a normal amount of food which just that change even though I'm not in a serious deficit is still enough to start to get me a little bit lighter and actually get some fat reserves burning but nothing like really what you call locked in yet. Like fast forward a few months, we're like, "Okay, I've got 2500 for today and I need to make them count because I'm getting hungry. I'm going to wait until maybe one." Usually not beyond one. And it's not because of the magic of intermittent fasting, but you can skip breakfast >> and you're not dying. You can wait a little bit and then I just want to time it where it's I'm hungry but I'm not starving. Cuz if you wait until you're really starving, well then now you're starving. you want to eat, >> you're at the mercy of that desire to eat. >> Yeah. So, there's like a threshold of hunger where if you wait until you're too hungry, it might make you more likely to overdo it. >> There's a I had an Achilles repair after playing cricket, which is the most British way to snap an Achilles. Yeah. >> And the advice from the surgeon was don't chase the pain when he was talking about using the painkillers that you always want to be out ahead of the pain a little bit. >> Uh and it's kind of the same like don't chase the hunger with this. allow yourself to get I'm starting to feel it a little bit and I'll just I'll nip that in the bud as opposed to being ravenous. And that's how you go from needing a 500 calorie meal to a,000 calorie meal and you go that was two-fifths of my entire day >> on 2,500 gone in a single meal. God, the rest of the day is going to suck. >> Right? So that's um that's something I always have to it's like a dichotomy of trying to get good at anything or trying to really progress at something because there is a perception that I have to be either Rocky Baloa and run do 10 miles every morning and drink egg whites and or if I can't do that I'll do nothing like that's there's a good reference a guy was like people will have a slasht tire approach to dieting where if one tire gets slashed like you had a bad day. He I' I've had days where I I cheated. I didn't say it till later, >> but I I had a couple really big days on my diet. Um but the idea that okay, today was a little off. >> Screw it. >> Done. Mhm. >> Like it's either perfect or nothing, which is it's so crazy cuz it's uh it's like just >> what you'd call someone's hypothetical like perfection where they imagine like the perfect version of themselves and they set the bar there and like real life is nothing like that. But now to like if they think that this is the bar to be anything short makes them feel comfortable like it's just not for me. >> If I can't be perfect, I don't want to be anything at all. But with with working out like what I was about to really get into is it's a combination of of for one you do have to be serious like with dieting the whole point is literally on average you are hungrier than you are not hungry and you don't get to eat a lot of stuff like it's just it's difficult it's something hard so you have to like kind of raise to the occasion like I can handle this I will be tougher to be able to do it and like really bring it and put a lot effort into it, but at the same time, you want to give yourself a routine that makes it the easiest for you. So, for me to say like, you know, if you if I really time out my diet, well, it actually doesn't feel like I'm dieting that hard because I had very low calorie, high volume meals and like an egg white omelette with a full pack of like a salad mixed into it, >> rice, potato. So, it's um but that only comes after that hard-headedness of saying I'm going to do it in the beginning because if your first instinct is to coddle yourself, well then that's not a position where you're ever going to, you know, deal with it when it gets hard. >> Grounded. >> Yeah. But you have to be able to like that's where I like I used to do basically three to four times the amount of volume in a workout than I do now. I used my mind was five sets on five movements. So for one chest day as 165 pound Sam I was doing five sets of bench, five sets of incline bench, five sets of flies, five sets of dips, five sets of something else. And like it it was a little fluffier volume. Like I wasn't capable of the intensity that I can reach now from doing it for so long. But in my mind more is better. I don't care that it's going to take a while and be long. like that's just this is what I want to do and this is how I'm going to do it. >> Dose response, increase dose, increase response. >> Nothing is going to change that. So, it's this like hard-headedness where it was hard for me to even go from 25 sets down to 11 cuz that's I just cut it in half. Isn't that half the work more results? I think that's nuts. But, you know, it's something where you even though you're reluctant still trying things like that and changing it up like that's that's sort of the whole point. like you want to optimize this routine so that you can do it the most efficiently. But you can look at that as though oh for me an optimized routine is I go to the gym once a week. Sometimes I don't even go like that's just the the routine that's optimized for me and that's where it's more of a coddling than it is like a bringing it. You either raise the bar or you lower yourself to the bar. What are some of the more Did you ever have a nonjust macro tracking approach? Did you ever do any more wacky diets? >> Uh, well, I would say like wacky, but when I started working out, I just made sure I hit my protein. That was all right. >> Like main gaining, you're a beginner. I was also still doing dieting at the time. And as a beginner, just from eating your protein, like that's no one is eating 250 grams of protein a day just because they're hungry. I don't think anybody flukes more than probably 12 to 150 gram. No one accidentally falls backward into 150 g of protein. >> Never happens. Like you're I mean when I was a kid I was like oh back from school, eat a whole bag of croutons. I'm like that was good. Let's go do something. Like that was a meal or that was like a snack of whatever. And uh so I protein was the thing I would track and that was all and like anything else I ate whatever. And that worked pretty well because I coupled that with like really hard training. But yeah, nothing too wacky. For a while I I really got into drinking egg whites like cracked into a cup. >> Okay. >> And my only gripe is the fact or the only thing stopping me from still doing it is the fact that the uh like the egg protein raw is so bound up with itself that its bioavailability is like 50%. So if you're eating 150 grams of protein worth of egg whites in a raw form, you're only breaking it down to 25 >> and I'm not going to eat double than what I like. I'm not going to counter that. >> Do you think people need to think more about that about bioavailability when it comes to protein consumption? Because you can hit your 250. If it was all through egg whites, it's 125. >> Yeah. Right. So, but usually with the proteins like my rule is uh the proteins that I would really count towards my number of like this is the ones I want to get in the day is kind of a like what I call direct animal proteins like a dairy maybe not a cheese cuz you know they're filtering things out but like any kind of milk or yogurt or cottage cheese that's in there that's solid that's you know every amino acid necessary whatever or like any meats or eggs like that's pretty much what counts and then everything else like the the the proteins that are in you know the two pieces of bread you made a sandwich with like sure they are proteins but it's like you know taking amino acids like you don't make a protein shake out of you know BCAAs cuz it's only specific ones like you want that whole chain of everything so I always just break it down to those and things that you would conventionally call protein like you're good like beefs and chicken anything like that like that's not something to worry about it only be weird if you um >> you know if you're the type to say Okay, I need all this to be plant-based, you know, legumes or soy or whatever. And that's something where >> difficult restrictions going on here. >> That's something where I'm not the guy to ask cuz that's not what I do. You know, >> there was a uh the reason I asked about the wacky diet thing. >> Mhm. >> Me and my friends, I started training 20 years ago, so 37. I started training when I was 17. and uh bodybuilding.com, the MISK forums on there, that world before we kind of just understood it was Kao meets if it fits your macros and then we need to kind of filter it through. >> Yeah. Like for to get to a bodybuilding look. >> Yeah. And then when you when you're thinking about lifestyle, you just factor in what you've done, which is I don't want to feel like [ __ ] I should probably try and eat mostly whole foods, mostly simple balance, blah blah blah, like colorful plate stuff. >> So you did you ever mess with like the >> We didn't know that. 20 years ago we didn't know that Sam this is new [ __ ] unearthed evidence and some of the stuff we were adamant that >> skiploading I tried to tell you about this yesterday so skip loading was a version of carb back loing >> where you went all week carb free >> and the goal was to hit at least a kilo of carbs on a Sunday >> and this the argument behind this was you wanted to avoid feed metabolism dropping off too much. So, by spiking it really high on the Sunday, it would allow you to sort of um keep the metabolism burning going. It's like doesn't lower your body into a false. Don't try and assess the [ __ ] science. Okay, I can see >> I'm I'm just thinking about it as like my bro science mind of like >> good. That's that's the hat you need. You need the bro science, not the real scientist hat. Um and then >> there was another argument that was uh I think skiploading was also done as a part of bodybuilding prep. You might even do this where you do your full refeed and then wait to see how long it takes your weight to come back down to the pre- refeed weight and that was okay. That's how much sort of drop off I've got at the moment. That's how much I'm burning. Carb night which was carb back loing but once per week but only on an evening. Carb backloading was this whole period that we went through. There was a time when Christian Tibido had blueberry extract in this nalgene bottle, but you needed to get it was you were drinking this much of it. We the blueberry extract that's really what's going to cause the fat burning to work. And it was a a wonderful time. We were you said Indiana Jones. I felt like an explorer. You know, got the hat on, got the little assistant running around trying to find stuff. And um >> turns out most of it didn't work. But it was a >> it was an adventurous time. You you the golden era has gone, dude. You just know that it's protein and calories. Uh >> it might have been blueberry extract. >> It's a different look now, though. Like what a But my whole even with any kind of training is I'm not so picky about someone's like I'm going to look at someone and think, what is that guy doing? If he's doing something is egregiously strange. If you're if you're doing something weird, I'm going to say or I'm going to at least think it. I wouldn't just tell somebody this like in real life. if I saw him. Uh but with with the training it's like you know guys are doing now over here what um oh hyrox >> hy rocks >> hy rocks. >> Yeah I mean it says it all but you called it hydrox. Yeah >> but uh but all sorts of different kind of training and there's like some of the Chinese weightlifters where they they're they're doing a freaking back to a bicep. This guy's back looks like a freaking pro bodybuilder like with all the cuts and everything. So what's is it is it that your training was better than this guy's training? Is it that and then it's oh well this guy's training only worked because of his genetics and it's like well then it still works for him. >> So I'm looking at as though it's not exactly what you're doing but I can boil down the basics. These guys worked hard. They do it a lot. >> Their diet's reasonable and like they care about it so they put energy into it. So, it's like if you're doing a full body workout every day and like that's your thing and it's um I think we've come or we're about to come full circle because there's um I think it's there's been a progression since what we call the golden era of who is trustworthy and it's you know it requires some nuance to actually know the real answer because Arnold era man Arnold is huge all these bodybuilders are huge they work out. I'm going to do their workout. Fast forward. Fast forward. Okay, now these bodybuilders are getting extra big. They must be getting extra smart. >> And then, you know, Q Rocky 4 steroids are involved. Q the David Le era. Q the natural era. Q these guys work out and they're just like me. These guys know what they're doing. Fast forward a little bit. Okay, now that's Oh, these guys are lying. this is the fake natural era. I can't listen to these guys because they're they're not actually telling the truth about it. They're and then now we're in the like scientifically explainable era where it's it's not the gains that I have, it's the training and the explanations why I do the training that I do which makes me superior because I can explain it very well and I have different studies to support it. But at what point could I give you uh like let's let's say I was I was working on my own energy drink or like something like that. At what point could I tell you, hey man, I've got 10 studies that say this is the best thing ever and then you drink it and it tastes like [ __ ] >> How can any amount of studies and like data and science >> make you think that that actually tastes good? So, I think we're to the point where it will almost revert back to a point of your results will begin to speak for themselves under the context that you know what went into those results. >> That's interesting. What do you make of the world of evidence-based lifting, science-based stuff at the moment? I think um I think there's people who are gimmicky about it and make it a thing because they know it's like um cuz an older person or an older guy who works out is going to stick to the basics that he know worked for him which is you know sweet but you know he's it's going to be harder for him to accept new ideas. So for a younger guy it's kind of this like clout mentality of like oh I'm on the new wave train but some of it's a little silly. I don't think all of it is. So, I'm not I would never the point isn't exactly what they're doing, but a lot of the idea behind it and it's kind of its own subculture is it's very like it's a weird elitism because it's not like it's Chris Bumpstead saying like this is the or and like their whole thing is this is right, you are wrong. And like that sucks. That's not cool. And that's not even true because there's so many people that get so many different results doing so many different things. Like the idea that their following is if I'm not perfect, then there's there's no point. And it's getting back to like the conditioning of preschool, middle school, high school, college, you know, I want to get a degree so I know I can get a job. I want to know it's going to work. And that's the the demand of being able to explain it with studies because you know going into the gym at all is kind of uncomfortable for the non-bginner for any if of any age where it's you've never worked out before. It's always like oh are people going to watch me working out. I've never done it. I'm uncomfortable because I' i've never actually gotten experience doing it. Like do I need to get one of my buddies who works out to bring me to kind of coach me? Well then they're going to know that he's coach like like it's it's something where it does have an inflated kind of situation. you don't get nervous about going into a freaking uh Starbucks. But the gym is a little different because it has that physicality. So for them to um you know just think like okay this is actually the solution because this is perfect and this will work. It's a it's a snake oil of an idea instead of a product because >> what do you mean that? Cuz the the convincing point is that if you do it just like how we're saying to do it, we can guarantee that it will work for you. when really I think the best guys who work out and lift just what you call the best lifters would be uh the ones who actually you know get their hands on their own wheel and learn it for themselves and then they get a deeper understanding cuz I could read a book about like uh you know let's say for some reason I was raised in captivity and I I read a book that was like how to act normal as much as I could read it would never translate to actually being a regular guy because you you have to like do these things to learn them. Like it's a different kind of experience because the working out isn't something you can just say on paper. You have to actually become experienced from doing it and then you'll be different in the future. >> So to say like and even just to to say something so blatantly at least what I would consider at least ill advised of this is the perfect way to do anything. That's not true, man. Like you're just saying that. >> How much of it do you think is um like uncertainty reduction? >> Yeah, exactly. It's a lot. >> Mhm. >> And it's and it's um I think in a way it's a little bit ting like I talked about either raising to the bar or like kind of coddling yourself and making it seem like less of a thing. If you bring it and you get serious, you say, "Okay, the gym is full of guys who really get serious. I'm going to do it and I'm going or I'm going to do these things which people said is the perfect way to do it and it's not you don't have to go that hard or you don't have to do that much like things like that I feel is a lowering of the difficulty but it's argued as an improvement of the efficiency but for me I'm looking at that as though like do you hate working out like if you hate working out then you want a routine where it's like one set a a like the ideal well I guess the idea would be zero sets like in in their world it's I wish there was a pill like a real where it's you never have to work out again and this is where my bias could come in cuz it's not an objective like I'm just adding to a conversation like I can't say anything completely objective but from my perspective like I like it in the gym if a workout took if I could do 20 sets and that was actually like pretty efficient and it worked that's what I would do but it's not because that's like I'm not chasing uh maximum efficiency in a way. I'm I'm half chasing like maximum enjoyment cuz I like I like to be in the gym. >> Yeah, I think that's a good Well, you've said yourself you went from 25 sets, reduced that down because you were more efficient that you some could say you're updating your worldview. You have accumulated some evidence that has now changed and informed the way that you're going to show up in the gym. But I think there's definitely an argument to be made that we are not equations. And >> the I guess the the the slight addition to what you've said there is the assumption there is a science-based approach to lifting or an evidence-based approach to lifting causes a less enjoyable uh sort of routine. Um, but some people may go in and say like just imagine for a second that the evidence-based routine happened to be more fun. I don't know how or why or whatever. >> If if for me it clicked as more fun, I'd have to do it. >> Yes. Then you'd be like, "Oh, wow. I've got both things. I've got both efficiency and I've got enjoyment coming through both." But yeah, if you're Look, dude, I I say it again. >> The era in which I sort of came up learning about lifting, we didn't Is it 531? Is it 5x5? Is it German volume training? Is it drop sets? Is it rest pause? Is it Maya sets? Is it my like you know there's so many? >> And ultimately when you look across >> what most people's points of failure are >> for the normal lift for 99% of people that are going to the gym which is still only what like 3% of the population or something. So it's a tiny amount of a tiny amount. >> The point of failure is compliance. And the reason for the failure in compliance is typically motivation and enjoyment. So what you should be optimizing for what this is what the science the evidence-based lifting community should do. They should make their workouts as fun as possible. So that would be a great study. What is and this would be a [ __ ] actually a [ __ ] phenomenal study. What constitutes an enjoyable workout? I would have to assume that um variation across the year in terms of exercises would be one of those. variation in terms of uh sets, reps, progressions, you know, you don't want to be doing drop sets all the time, but it's kind of fun to do that. You don't want to be doing pump stuff all the time, but that's also kind of fun. You don't want to have to be doing squats all of the time, but I can switch those up. Maybe I'll do some walking lunges. Maybe I'll do suitcase lunges. I won't just do back rack lunges. Oh, that'll give my like shoulders a little bit of a rest and I don't need to warm up as much. Mhm. >> Okay. So where where can you maximize compliance through enjoyment as well as through efficiency for effectiveness on the other side? >> So there's a there's an equation that you can reverse engineer somehow. >> But so if I had to put a little more of like a my current 2025, you know, September 1st take, it would be not so much that I'm against any particular style at all. It's it's more so I'm not like I it does not please me to see people be very unopen to discussion and like very just hard-headed with a take like that because I've changed my mind and like learned different things very drastically. Even the like the videos my training looks incredibly different now than even a year and a half ago. And I think it'll look different in a year and a half from then. But one one more thing about the studies though. I'm personally not the kind of person in a control group study >> by any stretch of the imagination. So that's my own bias of is a study from 180 lb guys who are starting to work out who don't eat all the protein that I'm eating, who aren't doing all the cardio, who just have not been having this whole lifestyle with everything that goes along with it. that is not me or any of these more kind of older school or hardcore bodybuilders or powerlifters. So, it's it's as though those those studies aren't invalid, but it's just not, you know, it's like you um you know, if you if you canvas what's the best TV show and it's things intended for children, like like not to say that that's so intended for like a 65-year-old guy who's in the nature. Sure, it could be the best show for that intended target audience, but it probably wouldn't be the same for me. So then that could that can make me kind of backpedal and say actually for the younger audience, the untrained audience to look at these studies, >> if they think that or if they would be the people who were in them, well then I guess I could see a little more. And I'm just trying to exert my will in the way of like thinking that what I do works and that it should be working for everyone. Advanced lifters by design are going to be less represented in these things, right? >> Yeah. Exactly. But that's where like I don't want to do that. Like I don't I'm not trying and I I always I'll usually if I say anything kind of statementy, I'll try to preface it cuz I mean it to be this is my take >> like it is not a the videos are not meant to be like this objective thing. It's like how I think about any given thing at any given time. So, it's like if you're watching a Sam video years in the future and it's a clip of me saying something like look at the upload date and just take it into account. >> Correct. At the time. >> All right. Let's say that you only had 10 exercises for the rest of time to build the best body that you could. >> Mhm. >> What are you going to choose? Talk me through the >> philos. I've got I've got a roster set up. So when it when it comes to legs, I think that the idea of a crazy heavy squats or leg press all the time as a quad builder, it just wouldn't be it for me because I've had periods of time where I basically did a leg extension exclusively. Usually when I diet, my leg extension volume increases because I mean squeezing wise, activation wise, you know, if you slap electronic pulse indicators, maybe you could get a real readout of how much they're activating. But for me, like if I had to pick a quad movement, I would just kill it on the leg extensions because you can really pump them up. Go a little heavier. Like there, if I had to pick one, it'd be they that would be it. >> Okay. >> Then hamstrings would be I'd be a little torn, but I'd probably pick >> I'm I'm very torn. Either seated or laying curl. >> But either way, a hamstring curl. Uh >> pick one. I'm I'm afraid Sam you can't >> I guess I'd have to pick the uh I'd aspach >> I would well I just like not even because of that because you would actually in a seated position >> if you pull forward >> would your you know hips not be more rounded over where your hamstrings tie in. So now they're actually more stretched >> like you feel your hamstrings stretch when you bend your torso to touch your toes not when you're laying down. M. >> So like the idea when people talk about there's more stretch on the lane curl like I don't I don't even see it. >> Well that depends if you're sat like this cuz often there's handles people press themselves up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that would be >> you've pushed this off as opposed to pulling yourself in. So I guess it depends how you position yourself. >> So I I guess but right now I'm on a kick of laying curl. >> All right. So quad extension, lying hamstring curl. >> Mhm. And then for back I'd probably just have to do regular pull downs. But you could also cheat them into a row by leaning back extra far. >> All right. Okay. Yeah, that's that's acceptable because you've just got the one machine. >> It's the same hand. It's the same setup. >> Okay. All right. >> For me anyway, I need more lats because I want them to be wider. Like the thickness of my back is actually fine. Like I want them to extend out. Like that's what really gives that sort of look illusion. >> What do you think about when it comes to lat pull down, hand position, cues? What are you thinking? >> Because then you can change it up pretty drastically. Like if I do a lighter set, which is normally toward the end, uh I can put my hands extra far out and it's a bit more like rather than pulling my shoulders up and down, which kind of gets like a lot of my lower lats, like kind of erector like middle thickness rather, you know, having wider hands and rotating around my shoulders that gets me a little more upper lats. But or you could also make it super heavy and do a closer grip and you get a little forearm and bicep just from the nature of a like that's more of a compound movement of a row. >> But then you can really load it too. >> Okay. So quad extension, lying hamstring curl, lat pull down with a little bit of [ __ ] on the handle. >> What's for? >> Yeah. For for chest, I think I would have to pick Oh, I'm a little torn. But honestly, if I had to only pick one. >> No, you can. You've got 10 in total. So you can >> but you got a lot of muscle groups. So you got to at least cover your bases. >> Okay. >> So I would say there was a time when I would say incin barbell >> if I was on an incined barbell kick. >> But it it's a little trick in your shoulders because of it's very like directly mounted. Like the only time I ever get my shoulders is usually incined barbell. When I like it, I like it. But I wouldn't do it all the time. So that's where I would say dumbbell. But even then, dumbbells very limited because you can go really heavy and the individual loading and the fact that they can move out the entire way. You still squeeze at the top. You can rest a bench with a bar at the top >> cuz it's all just going through your bone structure. Not so much with dumbbells. So, it's >> always adjusting. >> Yeah, you're all you're never going to relax on the top of a dumbbell. >> But what I think I'd have to pick now would actually be a uh a seated cable press. So, if you've ever seen seat here >> Mhm. Cable here, cable here. You pull it in. You kind of like this. >> Okay. >> Because neutral throughout that. >> Pretty neutral. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're not you're not allowed >> not incline, not decline, like kind of hands up a little bit >> because that's a much more versatile set cuz I can do it really heavy like a conventional press, but I I could also go lighter and be much more squeeze emphasized >> cuz those are like the two bases I basically cover for every mo, every body part. If I do a heavy one, I'm going to counter it with a lighter squeezing one. >> And to do only one, I think you'd be limiting your stimulus. >> So that uh that puts us away. >> That's that's that's four now. So there's definitely on incline dumbbell press, which I think for every guy is always going to be up there for chest. It feels good on your shoulders. It's always one of the first movements that you do when you get into the gym. You feel like it's building the bit of the chest that you want, which is up here. Um, but if you do a really light set, you just don't feel it the same as you do if you're on cable. So, I understand that tension, especially cuz you're being pulled that way, not that way. Right. It's >> So, you always have that >> kind of, you know, widening force even at the top. >> Yeah, that's a good point. All right. So, there's four. So, extension, curl, pull down, cable, press. >> Yeah. Is that on a little incline? 30°. >> Just just flattish. basically flat flat loaded. >> All right? >> Because then you could also put your hands up a little and get more upper chest, put it down a little, get more. >> You're being very cheeky here. Okay. Number five. >> So, a five and six for arms would be uh well, for triceps first, I' I'd probably have to pick just a easy bar curl push down. >> So, not the V bar like 90 degrees is too much. >> Straight is also a little too much on your wrists. >> So, a little camber, more like a 120. That's about right because I can also do that light and squeezing or you can really like get into it and have some heft. >> What are you thinking about with cues for that? Are you more upright? Have you got a little bit of bend in the hips? >> Yeah, decently upright. But if you're if you stand too upright, well then now you're like turning it into an ab exercise cuz you're loading your arms downward and you have to keep yourself tense to stay there. So, I I I'll hunch over it. Or if I'm doing a hard one, I'll put my head to the side of the cable and kind of like wrench it a little like that. Not for all of them, but for some of them. >> Mhm. Okay. >> And then dumbbells is just dumbbell curls. Like it's it's hard to beat. >> Seated, standing, supernated >> with it count as different movements. >> Yes. Got to pick one. >> I guess I'd have to just pick standing. >> Standing supernated. So more of a regular a classic twist of neutral at your, you know, your hips into super. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Because just the >> with some movements being able to change the load completely changes the style of the movement cuz I could do the 30s and really hold it and squeeze it. Or I could try to do like the 70s and have it be a much heavier kind of brunt sort of thing. >> So that's uh All right, we're getting close to six now. So you got four left. >> Yeah. So six now. I can chill on shoulders because I don't I haven't done a real shoulder workout for like years at this point because they're just they're already big >> like they don't relative my arms need to grow. So I I I would want to add a a forearm curl cable. >> Okay. >> So hold on the 1D handle, you know, cable up here. I'm loading it down this way. Like this is the force. >> Okay. >> And I'm just doing this. >> Okay. >> And it's not a huge movement. Yep. >> But it's like enough where you actually kind of thicken this up. And I used to do a ton of that and then my forearms got big enough and then I never did it again. At least >> now we're back on it because the arms have gone up. >> Now I added a little more but it's uh Yeah. And honestly for just I think it was a joke that Hugh Jackman or someone or Stallone worked their forearms like crazy cuz when you're acting you're not always shirtless but you're usually sleeveless >> and having big forearms makes you look extra cool. Mhm. >> So, uh I guess after that I probably have to add a calf raise just because >> standing seated. >> H seated seated is a little bit better. >> Okay. Even though you're going to be hitting I always get these the wrong way around >> versus whatever for me. I feel it and my calves will grow from it. So I've got my own anecdotal evidence of it worked. >> Okay. Got two left. >> So the next one has to be the cardio bike which not many people would add. >> Mhm. >> Cuz they were thinking I don't even need to do cardio >> cuz it's not on their mind. >> But that's uh Yeah. So seated and then the pedals are like where my feet are over here. It's kind of a reclined a little bit further back. >> It's a reclined position and it's the easiest one. Little back rest. >> My torso does not move. >> So I can pedal as much as I want and I'm just sitting playing with my phone for 30 minutes. >> Like you can do it and also make it easy. >> Have you got a preferred machine for that? Like to precore make a particularly good >> just and some of them they have little handles. Sometimes the handles are too close to where your knees are and you'll bump your knee on them. That's that that's my only gripe. But I'm not I'm not picky. The one I have at my house is like >> I mean it's the equivalent of one that you would get for free if you picked it up from like the side of the road, >> but it it still works. And actually, that one's harder on a um well, it reads harder because sometimes the math that they do to calculate calories burned, it's not completely cuz if someone like me pedal for 30 minutes at X difficulty, at X speed, an Olympic cyclist or like a marathon cyclist could do it at the same speed and the same difficulty and he would actually burn less calories cuz he's more efficient >> and I'm less efficient. So, it's not necessarily I always aim for the same number. It's like I know the feeling of like this is hard, but it's not too hard. Like, this is the right energy expenditure level. >> I did that on a I've been getting into incline treadmill walking to get to zone two. Zone two for me is really hard to hit. It's like way faster than a normal walk on the road and it's way slower than a jog. >> And >> yeah, my incline preferred is like 3.5 5%. >> 3 point for me 3.2 two at 15. >> Yeah. >> Is is nice, but I don't know what the metrics are of the whatever the machine is that was in the UK and it was 3.25 and I was like this doesn't feel right. Okay, I'll just keep going up four. Like four still doesn't feel right. Five. What the [ __ ] is this number? It got to 5.3. I'm like >> the speed is off. Is that miles per hour or >> I don't know because it wouldn't be kilometers over here cuz it would still be miles per hour. whatever it was, the exact same. You go, I can go to a new machine. And after you've done, >> you don't even need that many sessions. What >> 20 30 sessions before you go, I kind of understand how I'm supposed to feel and where my heart rate's supposed to be at like just by a sense of breathing. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So, you got one left. What's left? >> Yeah. One left. >> What haven't we done? We haven't You haven't touched abs. You haven't touched glutes directly. You haven't touched shoulders directly. What else is missing? I think that's it. lower back. I guess if that's >> in a bodybuilding sphere, you you'd want your lower back developed enough >> where it's got like a little texture, but if it gets too big, it'll take away from your waist because the whole point is this illusion of wider shoulders and a smaller waist. So, now that they're already developed, I probably wouldn't like I don't hit my abs because they get worked, you know, kind of secondarily for like even doing dumbbell curls. I'm keep myself stable. Like once they're there and you're actually still working out, they're not going anywhere because you're and then every time you look at yourself in the mirror, you got to flex them. >> Like they get worked enough to be maintained. So that's uh like that's why there's not a lot of ab workouts cuz I did a lot before and now they're just not going to go anywhere. >> Like same with shoulders. So [Music] >> I'd have to I'm a little reluctant, but I can't think of anything else I would want to do. I' I'd pick the adductor machine. So that's where you're squeezing your legs together. >> Okay. Why? >> Makes your legs a little thicker in the middle because that's it's this whole kind of like system of uh like kind of it tie in it ties in kind of below your knee more hamstring, but it's this sort of just piece right in the center where if your adductors were completely undeveloped and you just stood up straight with your knee straight, you'd have a really big gap between your legs. >> And you think you wouldn't be able to fully get that with the extension? Uh well the extensions are quad >> because that's a quad like a knee flexion >> and this is uh like leg well you know I don't even know what you call it >> that >> they uh yeah the joke is the well it's I don't know there's like two versions of a joke cuz they'll call that one the ball crusher >> cuz that's what you squeeze your legs together but the older like the joke that people would say before was that was either the good girl or the bad girl machine. >> Uh, one's forcing it apart, one's forcing it together. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> Cuz I I don't really I don't want to perpetuate that name, but that was that's kind of a reference to to those. >> Okay, very good. >> Sam Stoic, ladies and gentlemen. Sam, you're awesome, man. I really loved hanging with you this weekend. >> Yeah, this is freaking fun. >> What's next? What can people expect over the next few months from you? >> Nothing. A couple people asked me that. It's like, "All right, man. What are you working on?" >> Mhm. >> And I'm like, "Well, like I got some renovations going on. I got to clear out my garage. It's uh like I I've got I've got my uh I've got a few lists. I kind of couple them into one because it's all like my thing, but I've got like social media list like getting uh I say it's you could say it's more for the production value, but I just like camera stuff. >> So, I'm always trying new camera things just cuz it's but it's you know it does directly play into how the videos look. Like that's my little fidgety tinker thing to get into. >> Just iterating. Yeah, exactly. But in terms of the I mean there's not a lot of flash with real working out >> clear out the garage. >> There's not going to be Sam 2.0. It'll only be a gradual evolution. So it's like, you know, check back in two years and we'll have a lot of updates. >> [ __ ] yeah. >> I'm looking forward to it, man. Appreciate you. >> Congratulations for making it to the end of the Sam Sulic episode. How about an even bigger, even more gentle human, Chris Bumstead? Fantastic episode with him available right here. Come on, press it.