How to Get a Federal Client When You Have No Certification and No Experience

He never worked in IT. He didn't know an IT company. He couldn't write a proposal, and he told his client that out loud in the first conversation. >> And I said, "I don't know much about IT. I don't know anything at all about IT, actually." >> Before this, he tried it the same way that everyone tries it. He had the veteran-owned certification, so he went after contracts on his own. >> And that was a complete mistake. >> It didn't work. So, he stopped selling the certification and started selling the only thing he actually had. He built a list of 7,000 companies. He was going to call 25 of them a day every day until something happened. He never got past the 10th one because the list wasn't random. There was one rule behind who was on it, and once you hear it, you'll see why the ninth call went differently than the first eight. >> Today, we're here with Miguel Sanchez, and I know a lot of you have been asking for this. >> Maria, thank you for having me on today. Thank you to Eric, and you know, shout-out to everybody from the GovCon community, and hopefully you get some help that will motivate you to take the next steps. Yes, so when I left the Marines, I went straight into college. I was so concerned with not having any any dead time between, you know, my end of active duty service and coming into the civilian world. So, literally, my end of active duty service date was January 2nd, 2013. That was my first day of college night school. So, at the time, I had no clue. You know, I I grew up in a tough inner-city neighborhood. It was, you know, like any inner-city, man. If you're around hanging around the wrong crowd, you can really quickly get into the wrong things. Thankfully for me, I had kind of two sets of friends. I had my friends [clears throat] that were kind of in the streets, and then I had my friends from school that played ball with me. So, I got to see the best of those worlds, right? So, after high school was finished, I quickly realized that, you know, my friends that played sports and did well for themselves, they went on to get like dorm rooms and were in colleges, and I would go visit them, and it was so like dope and amazing to me. And my street friends, you know, they weren't doing much, right? So, I felt like I was in limbo. >> Mhm. I saw a recruiter in the mall who had on the Marine Corps uniform, his blues, and I went up to him and I said, "Hey man, why are you dressed like a nutcracker?" >> [laughter] >> Now that I'm a Marine, right? It's extremely disrespectful what I said, but it caught his attention and he explained it to me. We went to the recruiting office and, you know, the rest is history. You know, I was sold. I wanted to be a Marine. I wanted to be the best, so big shout out to to my Marines. And I was in 2nd Battalion 2nd Marines, which is an infantry division in Camp Lejeune, North Carolina. We did Afghanistan in '09 and then we were off the coast of of Libya in the 22nd Marine Expeditionary Unit for about, I want to say maybe somewhere between 15 and 18 months, something around So, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. I loved serving. A lot of people didn't want me to get out, but you know, my train of thought was, "Hey, you got to get out at some point." So, I might as well do it while I'm young and curious and and want to take on the world, so you know, from there, like we were talking about, you know, I went I went straight into school and I to answer your question, I had no clue what major I wanted to major in. So, I did an associate's degree first at night and in the days, I knew I had to get a job cuz although I had no corporate world experience, I understood that they valued education and all those checkboxes, right? But they also valued real-world experience. So, I worked for Bank of America as a teller. And and the way I got that job is hilarious because, you know, I started applying for jobs and you know, you have to send your resume through these like portals, these digital portals. And you know, I I'm a very common sense based person. So, I asked myself, I started asking people, "What happens once you put your resume in the portal? Like, where does it go?" And no one knew. You know, it just went into a black hole like an abyss, right? So, I was like, "Well, forget that. I'm going to go straight to the institutions." I printed a 50 resumes, my wife is my witness, who was in the other room. They were terrible resumes by the way. They were three pages long with a staple and I walked into Bank of America and I said I had a suit on and I asked can I speak to your manager and the guy was like sure. He thought I was a client because of the way I was dressed and you know the manager came and I said hey sir my name is Miguel. I'm a Marine. I go to school across the street. I'm looking to work and he cut me off. He was like stop talking. You're hired. You start on Monday. So that's how I got a job at Bank of America. It was just that. It wasn't it wasn't like I had it figured out. I didn't know if it was going to work out but I went back and took what people told me just like I did here in GovCon and and I just applied it. >> What did you do finance at Wall Street? >> Yeah, I worked in business development on Wall Street. We did a lot of state and local stuff. So that was my first exposure the government contracting space. It was the state and local the thing there. So I worked for a service disabled veteran owned bank investment bank right and then they did business with Fortune 500 companies. They also did business with state and local governments but they didn't do any federal business. Right? So that was my first exposure to government contracting but my activity was primarily on the Fortune 500 side. So I worked with the biggest companies in the world that you could think of across America on Wall Street and I used to go visit them all the time. So it gave me an opportunity to be well traveled across the nation. So >> So you're in Wall Street and you heard about state and local contracts but I still don't know where you the idea sparked in your head like government contracting is next. >> I just start continue to invest in my personal professional development reading books and you know being more financially literate. So when I got my first big performance bonus on Wall Street first thing I did with it was buy a multi-family property cuz I read a lot of books. One of the books I read was Rich Dad Poor Dad. Pretty popular book, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah, shout out to Robert Kiyosaki. He's a Marine as well. So, so I just kind of put myself in that environment where I was just listening to podcasts and learning and learning and learning. So, when I got my first big bonus, I guess acting out of a place of scarcity and saying, "Man, what if I lose my job or whatever?" Like I started having those thoughts. So, I started investing my money in real estate and multi-families. And then I was in my job and literally I just got the thought one day, to answer your question, like what happens if I get hit by a bus? What happens if I lose my job? I just thought, "Okay, my kids can't inherit my degrees. My kids can't inherit my job." And you know, I've always wanted a family at some point. So, it just didn't make sense to me anymore. So, some people call me crazy for leaving a a job where, you know, there was a lot of money on the table, but it just didn't make sense anymore. I saw how much I was, you know, helping this company progress with my, you know, blood, sweat, and tears. And cuz it was a very demanding job, right? All that success didn't come just because of I die, right? Like, you know, I would get up at 3:50 in the morning, right? To be at the trading desk at 6:00. Um and there was no like you clock out at 5:00. That doesn't exist on Wall Street. You are putting in 12 to 18 hours a day. So, yeah, so it was very demanding, but you know, after a while it was just like this doesn't make any sense because I'm not an owner in this company, nor is there a pathway for me to own some equity at some point. And ownership is extremely important to me. So, it just didn't align with kind of my future and what I wanted to do. So, right? So, when it came to government contracting at the federal level, you know, I started to quickly understand, "Oh, it's doing business with the government." So, okay, that's what we're doing on that side of the floor with state and local stuff, right? So, I used a little bit about what I had exposure to, but also I started to try to, you know, just dumb it down, right? Be a minimalist. And then it occurred to me that all this is, all government contracting is is the government buying products and services and the way that they buy products and services. That's it. That's where I started, right? That's simple enough for me. So, for everybody out there that's confused and is worried about, you know, RFPs and IDIQs and all this stuff and left and right, I think you need to start at [clears throat] a simple place, right? Start with one foot in front of the other, right? You have to do that to be able to to run at some point one day. So, I that's where I started. I just simplified it. >> So, take us back to that. Like when you were just set on this is what I was going to do. >> Yeah, so again, I gave you some really, really great examples of where not having that knowledge or that that little bit of ignorance worked in my favor, but it can also work against me. And I think in that instance it did, right? Now I know how important those things are, having past performance, right? Knowing how to, you know, explain the product or service from a technical standpoint to the government or or or putting it all together and and displaying what it is that you're bringing to the table via a proposal or via a sources sought notice response. While I knew some of those things then via the course, I thought that I could get around it somehow and that was a complete mistake. Yeah, in addition to the things that you're mentioning, I'll give you a perfect example, a government approved accounting system. Like so something as simple as that, right? Like that's also a part of the mix, right? So, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things that I just didn't take into account and didn't take take a step back and and educate myself on, but much like most of the small business community that get these certifications, you know, we're under this impression that they're going to get us, you know, all the contracts are going to start flooding. And that's not the case. When I fell on my face trying to do go that route, right? I knew it wasn't a matter of quitting because when you look back, it's like, man, I'm not where I want to be, but I'm further along than when I started. So, there's no point in going back cuz literally back to to quitting or to the start is literally like that's too far now. Like you're closer to the end. So, that's kind of how I thought about it. So, it wasn't a matter of quitting. To me, it was a matter of pivoting, right? That's when, you know, it dawned on me like, "Okay, what do you know how to do? What have you done? What have you been successful in?" And I just started taking those things into account. Okay, you can pick up the phone. You know how to cultivate relationships, right? You know how to build a pipeline, clients, and opportunities. Let's go back to that. Let's revert back to that. Let's get back to what you know. Let's get you back in your natural habitat. And I think the consultant route was a perfect opportunity for me to do something like that. And you know what, Maria? Like a lot of people are like, "I don't know what industry to get in." So, I would say if you're contemplating, you know, what industry you want to get into, I would say, "What do you do at work currently?" Because a lot of these things that you're doing at work might be being bought by the government via a service or product or whatever the case might be. So, is what you're already doing that you know you can do, is that being purchased by the government? Figure that out, right? What NAICS code is it, right? Like what agencies are buying it, right? And GovCon, that community, walks you clearly through those steps and how to do that. >> What did you do next? >> So, next what I did was I turned to me. I looked inward and I said, "What states do I want these clients in, right?" I had that exposure of having clients across the nation when I worked with Fortune 500. >> You are not stuck to your small little state. >> Right, exactly. I said, "Okay, what states do I want to travel to? Am I willing to travel to, right? I'm willing to drive all up and down the East Coast and even the South, right? Like past Washington, D.C." So, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to pick five states across, you know, the Eastern, you know, border and a couple in the South if need be." So, I I I picked Connecticut, New Jersey, New York, and I'm in the New Jersey, New York area, right? I'm like 10 miles from Times Square in New York right now. I picked those three. I picked Maryland, and I think I picked one more, but I can't remember what it is. >> Virginia's probably. >> again, I turned back to me. When I had to answer these big questions that are like just looming over you and you think you don't know how to figure them out or where to start, I turned back to myself and I asked, "Where do I want to travel and have a client, right?" >> And and that's what I did. So, I started with the obviously, you know, our nation's capital is in Washington D.C. So, I started with the states that I picked closest to D.C. and I worked my way up, and I started with Maryland. You know, I got my first client before I even got out of Maryland, so I never explored the other states. >> So, what strategies do you have in picking a client? >> Yeah, so the strategy that I had was I I try to leverage what I already know in every capacity, right? So, what I mean by that is this, the coursework, my experience in the Marines, my experience on Wall Street. What I did was Wall Street entirely operates off of one thing, arbitrage. Anybody who tells you differently cannot explain it simply. And and simply put, trading uh investment bank, all of it is arbitrage, right? Like, you want to find a security or a stock or a bond or whatever that's either priced too low, buy it and then sell it higher at at its intrinsic value, or priced too high and then short it, right? And vice versa, so I took that concept and I used it with clients. I tried to find an 8A client. Because again, when I crunch my numbers, that $4 million sole source threshold, it was it worked with what I wanted, >> Okay. >> right? Um in my compensation structure. So, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to pick an 8A client because now I understood the certification isn't everything, but it is something that you can leverage if all the stars align, right?" So, I found an 8A client in the state that I was interested in doing business in in the industry that I was interested in doing business in that was killing it, completely killing it, right? And then I found 10 or 20 companies that fell short of that but had all the same characteristics, right? So if they had let's say 10 employees or 20 employees, they were in the same state, they had all the same certifications when it comes to IT ISO 9001, you know, ISO 20000 all that stuff. They were played A, you know, whatever. All of that stuff. It's like you should be here but you're here and I started picking up the phone to try to find out why are you not here? What can I do to help you get there? And it worked, right? I had a I had a list of Maria, I kid you not, I had a list of 7,000 companies to call across all of those states that I mentioned, across all of that. I had a list of 7,000 clients to call and I had a strategy. I said every day I'm going to call at least 25 companies and I didn't even get to 10 before I got my first client. >> So now you have a client. Now the real work begins. >> Right. So Maria, I think before we get to that, let me take a step back for the people that are wondering like what did you say to the client, right? Um or >> Yes, thank you. >> You know, all that stuff, right? Cuz I understand our audience here and who's listening to this. I would say that I took maybe two weeks to prepare myself before I made those 7,000 calls, right? I made a little script >> Mhm. >> that said, "Hello, my name is Miguel." Or "Hello, can I speak to Mr. or Mrs. So-and-so? You know, I want to talk to you about X, Y, and Z." So the work that you're talking about, I did a little bit of it or a lot of it, excuse me, preemptively to prepare myself for those calls in case the conversation went in the direction of "Well, what contracts are out there, right? Do you know who your top 10 buyers are of the services that you're trying to provide? No? Well, I Here's three, you know, their forecast list has about 10, 20, 30 million in opportunities coming up. 80% of those are 8A set-aside. I'm just using an example numbers. Do you know this? And then you let the client talk. And then you'll figure out that they don't know this, right? And they need somebody who thinks this way to come in and help. So, I want to definitely preface with the fact that, you know, I prepared myself before I picked up that phone on what I was going to say, you know, what tools I had in my disposal, which was, you know, a target market list, as we call it in our community. And, you know, I had some forecasted opportunities for at least three of the top 10 agencies that were relevant to this client. Yeah, cuz, you know, I also understand like sometimes you get one shot, you know? These people are getting voicemails and calls left and right every single day. So, if they give you a minute of their time, you better know what you you know, you're going to say, but don't let that stop you from making a call. Sometimes you're going to learn what to say after 25 people hang up on you. You got to sit there and, again, look inward, right? It's like, what am I doing wrong? What can I do different? Why are they not listening, right? And then adjust adjust fire, as we say in the Marine Corps. And I would say to that person that's asking, "What do I say?" Look inward. What's the outcome that I want? You got to ask yourself the hard question Well, the simple questions. What do I want the outcome of this call to be, right? Why am I calling this person? Oh, I want them to be my client. What are some of the things that I think my client would care about? Well, they would care about what are the agencies buying your stuff, you know, or the people there we need to call, etc., etc., etc., etc. So, a lot of the times the questions that we have, we know the answers to already if we take some time to just sit there and just think from a common sense basic perspective, right? So, I would ask myself that question. What is the outcome that I want? What do I want with this call? And then all the other answers will come. You know, I think that it's important for people to understand that in this business, you need to be reactive, right? But you also need to be proactive. You need to be both, right? And pulling things from the forecast list gives you a great opportunity to be proactive because you're getting ahead of the opportunity. You can prepare logistically, right? Your client can tell you if we have the resources and the people or we need going to need to hire, etc. etc. etc. If we win something like this. Who's the incumbent, right? Can we capture some of their staff, right? Maybe it was a 8A contract and the incumbent is now losing that. Can we call them and say, "Hey, we're 8A, right? And we have a relationship here." etc. etc. etc. So, that gives you an opportunity to be proactive. The stuff that's already on beta, that's reactive. And that That was one of my selling points actually to the client was, "Hey, you know, if you're just sitting there replying to stuff on beta.sam, I'm not saying you're not going to land one or two, but you know, I don't believe that's the best way to do things. You need to do that and in addition to that, let's get some opportunities that are coming up in the next two or three or four fiscal quarters and break those down." Another selling point um in my script further down the line was, "Hey, this is how I'm going to do it. This is the strategy. Yes, I'm a consultant to you and your company, but when we go talk to these agencies, they don't know about that agreement. I'm going to operate as an extension of your sales force, right? So, I'm talking to them about you, not my personal company, right? So, that was important to them and and then, you know, I also reassured them that I'm going to protect their anonymity and there was going to be no instance where I divulged that I'm some external um consultant. >> So, was this opportunity that you found part of your forecast list or did you find it while doing a little bit more research and a little bit more talking? >> No, so this was an opportunity that was market research for an agency on beta Sam, right? And the client had already responded like 2 weeks before I became person I was leading their capturing business development efforts. And I said, "Okay, well, what have you done since then? Has anyone called to check on this thing? Has anyone you know?" So, I did what we did >> Simple follow-up. >> Right, simple follow-up. And for anybody listening out there, this is the way that this is the strategy that I like to follow because you need to understand if you're going to make a bid no bid decision. I like to have three pillars of communication um within an agency, and that's the small business liaison, someone on the acquisition side, whether that's the contracting officer, the branch chief, whatever, uh and the end users, right? The people that are actually going to be the recipients of the product or the service. Um I try to have a one point of contact in all three of those. And for me, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to start picking up the phone and trying to see if uh after this market research process, we can set up a capabilities briefing. And I can get the client to explain how they would do this via phone." I did that. Um I now have a great rapport with the small business person there, the acquisition people there, and we've talked to the end users a handful of times. So, that contract is in the process of the final stages of being awarded. The funding signature just got signed last week. So, and we had another conversation with them on Friday. >> [snorts] >> Yeah. Um so, you were awarded the contract [clears throat] at the end, correct? >> Yes. Yes. >> How much? >> It's 800 grand. In IT, it's considered a small contract. It's not huge, but you also got to understand I think you and Eric say this all the time. The client is going to give you a shot. They're going to give you a chance, and there's going to be more down the pipeline. Just make sure you take that opportunity, and you do the very best that you can every single day of the week. And I think a lot of us think that we have to have it all figured out. We we to do it all ourselves. And it's like that is a complete lie, right? Be honest with the client, be upfront, let them know, "Hey." Cuz that's one of the things I told the guy. Cuz he asked, "Do you write proposals?" I said, "No, sir, I do not. We're working on that, but I don't. It's not my cup of tea." >> Mhm. >> Now it's out there. Now it's on the table, right? So, yeah, be honest, understand where your strengths are and where your strengths aren't. The great thing that I love about the federal space is that, you know, you can literally assemble, you know, a team, right, for a contract, right? It's almost like the Transformers. >> [laughter] >> So so build the larger robot. So, I love that. I love that cuz it encourages teaming, right? Whether it's a JV, CTA, whatever the case might be. And I love that about the federal space. >> What was your responsibilities after that? Does it stop and you just go on to the next opportunity? Do you What did you do after that? >> Well, you always have to be looking for more opportunities, right? I built something called a pipeline, right, of opportunities. And we visit those opportunities every on a weekly basis. And we discuss strategy around those opportunities. On some of them we're talking to the incumbent, trying to work with them, right? So, always always always got to keep the pipeline clogged, as I say. So, yeah, always looking for more opportunities. And there are others. We've had some more successes elsewhere that haven't been awarded yet, but again, those signs that it's moving in the right direction are there. [snorts] It's uh this government contracting stuff at the federal level is not for the weak, right? It's not for the the fickle, right? I think that's a better word. I'm not going to say weak. I would say fickle. You know, stay 10 toes down, stay focused, uh stay in the fight, do not retreat. And every so often, if you're not seeing progress in the direction that you want to see it, sit down and look inward and bring it down to your level again. Don't don't complicate things. Ask yourself, what do I know? Understand the direction that you want to go in from a very basic level, right? Like, how many days a week do I want to work? How much do I want to make? Whatever, whatever, whatever. What kind of lifestyle do I want? Do I want kids? Do I want this? Do I want that? And it sounds silly, and it sounds unrelated, but I think it's very related. Um start with the psychological about yourself, you know, what can I do good? What do I enjoy doing? Right? And and figure that out first, and I think from there, then you try to see where, you know, you can add value with those [clears throat] very basic things. It's nobody's responsibility to make sure that you get it, but yours. >> Awesome. Well, thank you very, very much. I hope everyone got their answers. So, I think you and you offering people to reach out to you, that way you want that for others. And it tells a lot about what kind of human you are. >> And I appreciate that, Maria. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm always here to to lend an ear. You know, I would say number one, finish the course, and if you aren't taking the course at all, utilize the the YouTube channel that's out there at your disposal and those resources to get some of the very basic um questions answered because people's time is is is not a game, so that's why you hear less and less from me, Maria, asking you silly questions because at a certain point I understood, "Hey, there's certain things I can figure out on my own, and and I cannot use a Maria that I have at my disposal for very basic things like this." So, I'm here. I can be reached at miguel@sgccontracts.com. Big shout out to, you know, my GovCon family, and yeah, thank you for the opportunity, Maria. >> No, thank you. It really means a lot to get you here.