How To Deal With Difficult People With Comedian David Cross

I think when people say like, "Oh, they've got a lot of character or this this builds character." All it means, literally, all it means is you don't whine and [ __ ] about certain things. You don't whine and [ __ ] cuz it's cold or it's hot or this pillow isn't, you know, the the threat count is. You just don't [ __ ] >> David Cross is one of the funniest people in the world. He's a comedian. He's an actor. He's a writer. Best known for co-creating [music] and starring in Mr. Show with Bob and David. Mr. bias on Arrested Development. I loved his new special, the end of the beginning of the end. >> I have been really uh careful and worked hard at delineating a third and no more than a third of the hour and 15 minutes is uh quote political unquote. People will kind of pigeon hole me as a political comic and I'm like I'm not. I'm a comic who does stuff about politics. It feels weird that we have to say like politics about what feel to me like basic issues of the social contract and like how like what's happening in the world. You've been at the airport when you see people [ __ ] flipping out and they're yelling at somebody that had nothing to do with it and cannot control the situation and make it better for you. It's that sense of entitlement. I'm a a polarizing figure. I know that. I mean, at this point, the ship has sailed without trying to please everybody and be like a, you know, clean comic who doesn't take sides. You know, not once have I ever thought, >> where do you perform when you're here? Well, I guess the festival has a bunch of events. >> Yeah. I mean, uh, when I'm here, usually I'm on tour and I'll It's pretty much the Paramount, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah. You don't seem like a mothership guy. >> No. Um, but I will be talking to Joseph Rogan after this. >> Oh, you are? You're doing Rogan? Interesting. >> Yeah. Should it should be interesting. We'll see. >> You guys probably know have known each other forever, right? >> Yeah. I haven't seen him in decades, but we were both in LA at the same time. I did News Radio a couple times, so I know him from that. >> Interesting. [snorts] There's someone else we both know. Maria Simple. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. She just wrote a book about stoicism. >> Really? Yeah. Her new novel, which is >> gonna be huge because it's Oprah's book club pick, >> is >> I loved the first one. I really >> Bernardet. >> Yeah, I loved it. >> So, this one is the main character is a stoic philosopher. >> Mhm. >> And she's a tutor to these two rich kids in New York City. >> Okay. But she was just here a couple weeks ago. >> Yeah. I just saw her. I was in a play and she she and somebody else I know came to the play. Yeah. Just just saw her. But I hadn't seen her in quite a while. Yeah. At least 10 years. >> You would have known her, I guess, from Arrested Development. >> Yeah. And I think prior to that, u cuz I knew George, her ex-husband or partner from like the Simpsons group. I knew a bunch of people who went over to the Simpsons and wrote kind of around the Mr. Show after Mr. Show. So just, you know, the same community. >> Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I'll I'll give you a copy. It's really good. It's but it's there's not a lot of good novels about Stoke philosophy. So that's interesting. >> Okay. So that's [laughter and gasps] okay. How did you how did you come to find any of this stuff? >> Stoicism. >> Yeah. >> I didn't it's not something I practice or anything. I I know I have a a loose idea of what it is. I know it's in in its, >> you know, something I learned in high school at some point. Never really put into practice or anything like that, but it's basically I could be No, I want to hear it. This is fascinating. >> It's basically we have no control over external situations. Yes. >> How we respond to those things. I'm thinking of these like corny bumper sticker things like not letting not letting it get you down, [laughter] but um uh that's seems simplistic, but how you respond and react to those things that you don't have control over and understanding that and not letting that get you off track too far. Is that something? >> No, no, I think I think it's very close. And also not letting it make you a bad person or you know like it's not just like how do you not get rattled by stuff but how do you sort of stay on whatever the path that you're supposed to be on is right like how do you because obviously there's there's the little things like how do you respond to a heckler or whatever and then there's also how do you respond to some kind of personal disaster or betray >> or like or a financial uh >> change. Yeah. or just the shitty events of that are happening in the world. How do you not let it change you or make you despair or make you bitter or make you >> not radicalize you? You know, like how do you how do you sort of stay on the the path? That's what it's kind of all about. >> Okay. [laughter] >> All right. I believe you. >> That's it. I believe you. >> Well, it's it's funny though because I was watching your special and you have the whole thing about uh is it is it possible to be a good slave owner? >> Mhm. >> And there's this opening. So Marcus's meditations is like the famous text in so say it again. >> Marcus Aurelius's meditations the the the primary text in so philosophy. >> Okay. >> At the beginning of it this is the emperor of Rome and he's sort of like reflecting on his life you know what he learned what went well what he's what he's proud of. And one of the things he congratulates himself on is that he never laid a hand on any of his slaves. Mhm. >> Like, so he's actually doing exactly what you're talking about in the bit because, >> you know, all these things are relative, right? Like he's he's looking around, not going uh >> like the Chris Rock bit about I hang out with my kids like, "Yeah, that's what you're supposed to do." >> Yes. Congratulate yourself for >> But you do you look around and you go, "Well, everyone owns slaves." So the idea of conceiving of a world where that doesn't happen is a huge leap for most people. So he's just saying, "Well, I'm not as bad as these people that are beating them or raping them or murdering them." And it just it struck me as a very that even like the wisest people are falling prey to exactly what your bit was about. >> Yeah. It's it >> it and there is there is a certain logic to it. >> Yes. And I know I I'm also kind of uh having fun with the idea that I know that people are going to it's going to take a second for the logic to work its way through. It sounds what you're hearing is slave owner. >> Yes. >> And the idea that well I would have been a good slave owner. You know the the fact that you own slaves is a bad thing. >> Yes. But if you own slaves, >> there's a way to be a good slave owner. >> Yeah. >> So, and just messing with that illogic logic uh present. >> But I do imagine most people when they think about the past, their their first assumption is well, I just wouldn't have participated. I wouldn't be I would I would have been with the good guys of course >> and the majority of the people were not with the good guys or it wouldn't have been a majority issue. we just conceive ourselves as being exempt as opposed to just participating and behaving more or less like everyone else, >> right? And you know it also it depends on what era you're going back to you know and for a long time in historic terms extremely recently >> there it was just a given that's I mean there's a cast system in India you know and it's it's not >> out andout slavery but it is understood this is cultural you know this is you were you're have this skin and you're from that family so you do this and you know That's the idea of people, you know, collectively saying this is wrong is relatively recent. You know, we were the last kind of uh industrialized nation to stop slavery. >> Yeah. We had to fight a huge war about it. [laughter] >> A lot of people are like, I would literally rather die than live in a world where I don't get to own other people. >> Yeah. >> It's nuts. But I think the the funny part of the bit is like on the one level you're like, yeah, what kind of slave owner would I be? what would I have been? But but obviously the >> I have to say for anybody listening taken out of context [snorts] there's a there's a contextual yes thing it's like we keep talking about oh this bit that I do about being a good slave owner and yeah it's kind of a thing in the bit but it's uh it really is just >> less than a minute long and it's contextually a part of a bigger thing. No, no. I I wanted to get to the bigger thing because I thought it was a fascinating bit because to me the subtext is like that's that's obviously the extreme example. You're you're like I'm a good person in a bad system, but like aren't we all uh good people in bad systems or so we think we are. Like you could you could apply that to any issue at basically any time where you're like I'm not as bad as the rest of those people. I I mean sure in in theory. I just think with the luxury and ability to look back at things in in our current situation and people who say I never would have been a Nazi soldier like well that's not true. I mean right maybe you personally but you can't just say there are people that I mean that book Hitler's Willing executioners you know it's it's about your neighbors and we we see what's happening with ICE. I don't I don't think we're you could draw a you know direct line. We're not there yet and we're not hopefully we never will be but you can certainly see it happening here with the same people who would say >> oh I I mean that's where I would draw the line. And what was the Stanford prison experiment and what was the other one with the shock >> that they did that they did the shocks in the the Stanford prison experiment. I thought the Stanford prison experiment was where they said you guys are going to be guards and you guys are going to be The shock thing was different, wasn't it? >> I thought they were I thought they were doing shocks in that one, but I I know your point. I know your point. >> There's another experiment where they're where >> are you willing to subject another person to if someone's telling you it's okay to do it? Yes. >> Yeah, I think that was a different thing. >> Sure. Yeah. Maybe. >> Well, don't sure me. >> No, I mean it could be the point. I get the point. Yeah. >> Right. which is like we think we wouldn't do horrible things but but everyone is capable of doing horrible things what '7s the 1970s so not far removed historically and yeah the people yeah I mean I'm I'm basically you know supporting that idea like those experiments told us that the same people would be like I would never do that yeah willingly did it everyone vaguely knows what happens in factory farms and wouldn't be okay with it like you wouldn't run if you were a farmer that's not how you would do business or so you tell yourself and then you're like but I am hungry and there's a McDonald's right there right and so we have the idea and then historically it's very clean and then the just the sort of realities of day-to-day life we make a lot of excuses and rationalizations that's to me I that's what I took from the thing is that like you like to think that you're different but you're not that different >> yeah I don't think that was like a conscious thought that I had and that actually that bit for a while I was trying cuz it just occurred to me. I don't know why or how it did, but it did. And I didn't have a context for it until I attached it to the Machu Piccha Inca Trail thing. >> Yes. >> And I had done it like three or four times when I was, you know, working out new material and it did not land the way I wanted it to land. And people weren't comfortable with it and I and I couldn't really defend it cuz it wasn't that funny. It was an interesting idea. And then I later found the uh and I probably dropped it for a while and then I found the context to put it in there to make it kind of a a flow as one linear idea and then it worked great. The reason I was relating it to sort of the current day and and how we sort of are able to rationalize things differently is you you're talking about the the sort of Inca trail and then you you you make a reference to like World Cup stadiums like we know at some level this is how these things occur in other country and then people are like but I do want to go see like before I die I want to go see a World Cup match or they're they're walking around the stadium they're like this is nice and and they're it's right beneath the surface. I feel like it's not exactly the same thing, but comparable to recycling. So, I recycle uh pretty much everything. I don't think it has any real effect at all. I mean, when you look at what the defense department does, I mean, what what is my washing my tuna can out and then >> it's like one airline flight is like 500,000 cans or something. It's like it's it's and and and what am I doing? What the what does and and I tell myself because it's true. Well, at least I'm not contributing to uh but even just consuming something that comes in that packaging. I mean, it's a thing that sort of makes you feel better even though it it actually makes feel me feel worse cuz it just points up the absurdity of the situation we're in. But look, if everybody had that philosophy, then we'd be okay. If everybody recycle, but everybody doesn't. I coming driving from the airport in Lima, Peru to kind of the city center, and Lima's huge is I mean, you have 7 miles of just garbage. I mean, just before it gets nicer. Yeah. >> And I'm like, what am I doing rinsing out my tuna fish can? It doesn't matter. >> But it does. You're sitting on a paper straw >> and and you're like, >> "Oh, that's a Yes, exactly. Paper straw. Okay, sure. I'll do it." There's a similarity there, I guess. >> Although, like being the kind of person that's like, "Fuck this. I'm not doing any of it." I don't think that's good for you as a person either. >> No. Like the the Absolutely. the the the people who find joy and gleefulness and that uh I'm sure you had it in Texas. Uh Roland Cole. Rolling. Rolling Cole. >> Yes. where you put the exhaust thing on your car. >> It's a southern. It's like they did it in the south a bunch and that makes them happy and they're all, you know, and they're like, "Fuck you, uh, you know, hippies or whatever the [ __ ] >> I'm going to pollute even even more." >> And that was like a reaction to uh, you know, what they perceived as you know, don't tell me I can't have a plastic straw. The political correctness thing is kind of that too where it's like, okay, look, it can be obnoxious to like police people and have to be overly sensitive and whatever, right? There's there's obviously some some level which that's ownorous and obnoxious. At the same time, being a dick on purpose is not good for the world. It's also not good for you to to be the kind of person that's like, "Fuck your feelings." >> Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's a that's a bad contribution to humanity. >> Yes. I also don't but I also don't think it's good to be that per like it makes the world worse but I don't it's it's good to have like boundaries and rules where you're like hey I don't do that cuz I like I care about other people. Yeah, I would imagine mental health-wise, but who knows? I would imagine those or a bunch of those people get a sense of well-being and a satisfaction from sticking it to the and you know, just an umbrella group, an archetype. Um, like nobody's going to tell me what to do. And then you feel good about it maybe. So maybe it is good for them cuz they're they sleep better and they're healthier and they don't, you know, they don't have as many stomach issues, um gastro, you know, IBS, whatever. They, you know, they're like, "Yeah, I [ __ ] rolled some coal. I showed them and then I did my part." >> Yeah. Yeah. There's something weird about this like I'm going to stick it to the man. But it's like in this case, the man is people who are mentally handicapped. You like like you know, like you're like, who are you sticking it to by by by using the Rword or whatever? Like it it the the weirdness of like pushing back, but like you're pushing them back against a person who has nothing. They're not they're not the man. Well, what about rich [ __ ] people? [laughter] What do you do in that situation? A conundrum. I Yeah, I the idea of punching down is sad and gross to me. You know, the idea of finding joy and making fun of and making other people laugh with you at this, you know, marginalized group is just uh sad. Yes. But again, to be empathetic to those people is they they don't always see they they're not like waking up and they're like, "Hey, how can I pick on these other people cuz I >> No, I think it's a uh as you were saying, it's like a reaction to don't tell me what I can and can't say. and freedom of speech. And even if that freedom of speech is an offensive derogatory word or phrase or something. Yeah. >> Usually it comes from some kind of insecurity literally or figuratively where you're just uncomfortable. So you're like, "How can I lash out?" Like my my kids, >> you know what I got? I want to stop and interrupt. And I don't know. That to me sounds kind of smug and condescending in a way that would make that person go see see what they think. And I think it's helpful to be careful about not kind of doing what they're doing sometimes, which is just a broad brush of, oh, some, you know, liberal progressive know-it-all, you know, cuz I get that a lot. I get that uh uh accusation and I think sometimes it's warranted. I hear myself and I'm serious. I sometimes I hear myself and I'm like, "Oh, shut the [ __ ] up." Yes. >> You just sound like a dick. You sound like everyone >> you're making it worse. I'm talking to myself now. You know, if we want to truly affect which and I agree with all of your um positions and uh philosophy on this, we have to be careful about not engaging in the same kind of thing. >> Yeah. Mark Marin's thing about annoying people into fascism is is very real. But I what I mean is that most people do not think most people when they're punching down probably aren't saying to themselves I am punching down. They in their in their mind they they are thinking this person is a worthy target or I'm actually attacking this bigger interest that's behind that thing. Like I don't think people think they're punching the ladder. I think it's the idea that I've experienced and I'm in standup comedy so I experience it a lot where there's uh and I've been on both sides where it's like you know I don't tell me what word I can and can't use but I think they most of these folks it's about oh this makes you uncomfortable then I'm going to say it. >> Yeah. >> And it there's not a whole lot past that. It's a lot of like don't tell me what I can and can't say and freedom of speech. And I agree. I don't think they see it as punching down. And I don't think they care on a surface level of if it's hurting an individual person. >> It's more important to them to uh oh, it bothers you. Uh you're going to tell me what I can and can't say. No, you're not. >> Yeah. >> And you know. >> Right. Right. And and I think as Yeah. And I I agree. I could it could come off as condescending. I'm just saying I feel like as you get older and you experience more, you're able to question that impulse a little bit more and go, "Hey, like I get why I'm having this reaction to it, but I'm going to decide whether it's worth the cost over here." I had for years like I'm I'm going to say this and I'm going to defend it. I'm going to tell you why, etc., etc. And then the more that I met people who said, "Hey, I just got to say uh that bit you did where you said the nword really uh upset me and it offended me." and and whereas I would you know kind of sort of calcify against that thing that thought and I would have a discussion with that person sometimes on stage sometimes offstage they'd approach me and >> if I couldn't defend the bit as well here's like the slavery thing like here's the logic that's why I'm saying this and it's in the context I can defend that uh but there's sometimes you can't >> and if I found that I couldn't and I knew it was upsetting more than a couple people. Like, it's not worth it. I'll drop it. >> I'm bringing stoicism to Minneapolis, Chicago, and Detroit next week. You can come see me on the 18th, 19th, and 20th. Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit. We'll be talking about the four virtues of Stoicism, courage, discipline, justice, and wisdom. We've got a few tickets left. I'll sign your books and ask me questions. I'd love to see you. Just go to daily stoiclive.com. >> Yeah. And and it'd probably be different if someone was saying like, "Hey, if you say this, you'll go to jail." Or, you know, like where where there would be actually some principle at stake even if you didn't care that much about it. You're able to just go, "Hey, as a human being interacting in society, here's here's how I'm going to decide to be considered or not." Like one of the things the Stoics talk about is like how like look if you're if you take offense to something like you're at fault. Like somebody said something and then you're choosing to be hurt by it. That was like one of the stoic views which I think at some level is true, right? No, like no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. Like you decided to give weight and meaning to those words. I I agree with that on some level. I also though in my life don't go around trying to hurt people's feelings because I don't give a [ __ ] So like there's a tension there. >> Yeah. I think there are groups of people who it's easier to for one group of people to make another group of people feel bad. I think it's in a sense easier for like a wealthy white guy to say, "Hey man, don't let him get you down." [laughter] than a poor black lesbian, you know, whatever. Uh um because they they're fighting multiple fronts and if a if that rich white guy is saying something, it's it's easy for somebody to go, "Hey man, don't let him get you down." [laughter] >> Or as you say in the thing, it takes, you know, it takes more muscles to frown than smile. Like that might be literally true from a like whoever did that study, but that's not that's not much solace to someone who just got diagnosed with terminal cancer. [laughter] Like and and like there might someone else with terminal cancer might be able to say that to the fellow uh diagnos, but like you as just a regular you you just understand like it's not your place to say that. You haven't earned being able to say this to the other person. >> You're going to sound like a douche. >> Yeah, of course. Hey man, I know cancer's bad. We all We all got the memo, but listen, >> cheer cheer up. [laughter] >> Turn that frown upside down. >> Yeah, >> right. Well, like the the thing about like dudes walking around telling women to smile. It's like you don't know what this person just went through like just like stay in your lane is is also what we're saying. Although I I still have this kind of it doesn't come up that much anymore, but my wife who's a pretty active feminist, we I think our daughter was I'm going to say like two and a half maybe maybe two maybe three maybe and we were in the TSA line at the airport and she's she's in a stroller. My daughter wasn't crying or anything. He just says he was so this guy uh who worked you know at the uh airport is like uh hey whatever he said it was very cordial and um uh you know what's your name and uh hey how about a how about a smile and my my wife took that as like uh oh yeah guy a man telling a a woman or a girl to smile. I'm like, "Honey, he was just being nice to a kid, right?" >> And and she Yeah, she was she was that was like a source of contention, but like And I still to this day I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?" He It's not It's not a sexist thing, right? >> Oh, but it is. Oh, it's you know the patriarch. She didn't say that. But >> it's more like an adult baby thing, not a not a not a gender thing. >> No, of course. Yes. It [laughter] was great. It was So there's, you know, there's a a point to all of this. I guess >> my kids do that like they just don't they just don't participate in any like, you know, adults are like, "Hey, like like they try to shake their hands and they're just, >> you know, like just how old are your kids? >> A nine and a six-year-old, but they're just like not interested in making like you making adults feel good about like >> engaging with them. they just like you like the sort of polite version of you like hey don't like oh yeah don't don't humor and engage with complete strange adults who are telling you to do stuff it's like this mix of like horror and pride at the same time >> yeah I I know uh my daughter's nine does the same thing where actually when the examples I'm thinking of are like people that I know you know or or at least have she's seen that I think this person is safe, you know, get enough of information. >> Um, and then, you know, but but that's also shyness and you should be and it's I know exactly what you're saying. I know that thing. >> I'm like all about I'm like you you do not need >> I don't want to shake that guy's hand [laughter] >> I don't know who he is, >> right? I would I would like there to be less touching [laughter] period like among strangers. You don't need to you don't need to do this. Also, like I just saw you touch everything in the bathroom. You're actually doing this guy a favor by not shaking his hand. Like you're you're disgusting. >> You had another one that I I've watched you talking about the other day where you were talking about this with your kids where you're like, you have a rich kid. >> And how do you how do you both take care of your kids and then also not uh spoil them rotten? I suppose it's relative uh what spoiled is. My daughter would certainly have a different idea than what I do, but she is spoiled. And the whole bit is about the resentment I have for how easy she's got it. And I'm and I do that annoying thing. Uh I try not to, but like when it's an I can bring it up organically and it kind of works cuz she she knows and she'll ask me questions, but um yeah, I never had that and I had to go do this and this. Well, you know, I didn't have a parent at home. We were latch key kids and blah blah blah. Just >> because she doesn't truly appreciate Yeah. And but she's also nine. >> Yeah. >> But she also has and we have a nice house. We have a brownstone in Brooklyn. It's huge. You know, it's the biggest place I've ever lived in. And it's not huge compared to like Texas huge, but you know, it's I also live in Brooklyn, so it's never going to be that big. But but I mean most people live in apartments and all of her friends, you know, are like live in these like apartment buildings or units in a in a brownstone. So she's aware of that. And I what I'm trying to do is ride the fine line of I don't want to say guilt cuz that's not the right emotion I want her to have, but it just the understanding of what what she has, what other people don't have. This is not normal. >> Yeah. that that uh but we also have a a fair number of friends who are astoundingly wealthy. >> Yeah. and they have multiple homes and they're friends going back to before they were crazy wealthy and you know we we we're a drop in the bucket to what they have like a country estate and they have a you know a triplex in the city and they have all these other you know and it's crazy they have a stable you know I mean so it's all relative and I try to keep that in mind >> yeah it's like I'm stressing about okay do I have to sit in like a shitty seat on this airplane cuz we're flying together cuz I want to build character and then I'm picking you up from school and the guy behind me is in a Lamborghini. Like I I could probably, you know, like there is a relative nature to >> I do. Well, I I mean she travels a lot, you know, because uh we do. and you want to take them with you. And what was it? Fairly recently, like a year and a half ago, I want to say, maybe two years ago, uh, we were flying, it was a longer flight, maybe it was going to LA from New York. And somehow we got bumped up and it wasn't like anything. I didn't use points or anything like that. And it was also one of those newer plane. I think it's an American American Airlines that where they don't have business class. It's a newer plane and it's called premium economy and so it's it's kind of in between business and uh you know comfort plus kind of thing. It's nicer than what we usually get the comfort plus extra 6 in and that's it. That's all that's all you're getting. That's all I need. We're fine. It's it's okay. and we got it was just her and I and we got bumped up somehow and we were in this premium economy thing which is nice. It's like business basically and from that point on >> yeah that's the new normal >> that's like and she gets it but I she and I told her it was a very special thing. I don't know why but you know but from that point on like um can we get the can we No, we can't. Why? Why? Cuz it's expensive and I'm not going to pay for that and this is this seat is fine. We're fine, honey. But the other one they gave us free ch whatever and it's big and no honey it's and and so maybe it's a good thing because after that we still were back in comfort plus and it's like look see this is fine this is fine >> you know >> when and probably as a parent it's like you're like I got to build character not make them entitle I don't want them to think life is easy and it's like life's hard for everyone like >> life is [ __ ] easy I mean it is uh I know it's It's tough being a kid regardless of your station in life and what where you live. It's it's uh >> you know even wealthy kids have difficulty navigating social norms and you know kids in their school and there's a mean teacher and all that stuff, but she's doing all right. Well, and what I mean is what ultimately shapes you more as a person, the the the handful of perks you get or just the fact that [ __ ] is always happening and it's never the way that you like there's this idea, at least that's what I got from my parents. It's like, oh, it builds character. And it's like, is that what builds the character is where you're sitting on an airplane or what what kind of car you're driving? >> Sounds like an excuse, Ryan. That sounds like an excuse to bump yourself up. >> No, but I'm just What builds car what builds character? Is it that? Is it like your access or lack of access to material things or is it actually like how they see you going through the world? What kind of person you are? I mean, it's both of them. And it's also uh it's a lot of stuff. And it's also how >> uh you appreciate the the things. If you think it's normal, if you think you're entitled, if you think and we've seen plenty of examples in celebrity and and whether that's athletics or uh uh you know, actors or singers or whoever, people who come from like uh limited means and and then they just they feel entitled. they've been they haven't had good guidance and they treat people, you know, shitty and they feel entitled and they don't say please and thank you and they don't stop to reflect on exactly how this all happened, why they just think, well, of course, I'm I'm talented. >> Yes. you know, I'm a really good uh [gasps] you know, at this thing and people love me and so of course I should bathe in Evian water, you know, or whatever. And you know what I'm trying to do is keep her grounded as much as possible and and to but to answer what your your question I think it's all of those things and it really is about understanding and appreciating that stuff for for what it is. Well, understand that I think that the thing that people struggle with is understanding that having money or luxury things or attention or whatever difference that like it can be nice but it doesn't say anything about you as a person, right? like like to have it but not let it one become like the normal like the baseline like hey this is this is my this is what I expect when I arrive or this is these are the basic levels of accommodations or whatever that I I feel entitled to but also that like it it can I'm sure it's like this with fame or with power where you it just it kind of intermingles with your soul and you go I am this kind of person who, you know, should be treated this way. I get this because I'm special. If I don't get it, you're depriving me of my specialness, right? And then so that it's where it sort of merges with you on like a cellular a soul level as opposed to hey, I would rather sit on sit on a comfortable seat on an airplane than an uncomfortable one. I'd rather live in a nice house than a not nice house. But the problem is when you think like what kind of car you drive or how many followers you have or attention you get it is as any kind of bearing on your worth as a person. It makes you better than others. >> Yeah, I I get that. Sure. I think the best thing I'm saying this now I don't I haven't sat down with a pad of paper and really thought it out but I think one of one of the best things about growing up poor not having those luxury things is is that when you do and then you do attain them but when you are in a position where you have to I mean this is just the way things are you have to sleep on this bench. >> Yeah. you know, uh you it's it's you're tired and there isn't a comfortable bed and we're in the middle of nowhere. Whatever the thing is, you just do it without you may go that sucks, but that's it. And then you go to sleep. >> You can handle not having it. >> You can handle I think when people say I think when people say like, "Oh, they've got a lot of character or this this builds character." >> All it means literally all it means is you don't whine and [ __ ] about certain things. Yeah, >> you don't whine and [ __ ] cuz it's cold or it's hot or this pillow isn't, you know, the the thread count is you just don't [ __ ] >> You don't cry about it. That's what I think what people mean when they say uh it builds character. You know, she's got a lot of character. That old lady, she's a you know, that's what it means. They don't they don't whine when it's 90°. You just get on with it. >> Yeah. It's funny that we use the word character there because what we actually kind of mean is like resilience or adaptability. character is like to me has like a moral component like your ability to sleep on a bench is not like a statement of of character because I mean there's lots of people who have to sleep on benches for no fault of I wouldn't say that's has anything to do with their character that that's a that's an a social injustice that we should we should rectify >> meaning going back to your thing about on the plane like oh it builds character to to sit that's what people mean it means >> you don't whine about having to sit there later on. You know, you've been at the airport when you see people [ __ ] flipping out. >> Yeah. >> Because and they're yelling at somebody that had nothing to do with it and cannot control the situation and make it better for you because this, you know, this dude is going uh with this [ __ ] cell phone out and waving it going, "My seat was business and now I'm in the back." And yeah, it happens and it sucks, but don't be that person. They You're yelling at somebody who has can't not do a thing about it. >> Yeah, it feels like splitting hairs, but it's like, okay, if the if the airline [ __ ] up, I get why you're a little upset, but this is a storm. Like like this is like every plane in the entire airport is on the ground because there's a lightning storm and and you're you're thinking that if you're just super rude to this person at the computer, they can fix that. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yes, that's that's a better way to put it. Just just like, well, sir, it's hailing. >> Yeah. >> And we cannot fly in the >> Oh, did you say you really have to get where you're going? [laughter] >> I just didn't know. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, we do have a plane for people like you. Yes. >> Right. Right. [laughter] I I but going back even to the punching down to I do try to remind myself that these as as abhorrent as this behavior is I try to go I have no idea where this per like how many hours this person traveled to get here. How many horrible things have happened to them along the way. What kind of anxiety they're bringing to I I try to having having had my own share of like wow I I really wish I'd handled that better. I do try to go this person as horrible as they're behaving is not having a good time. Like something is is wrong inside this person. >> That's uh that's noble that you try to remember that and that's a good thing. I don't know if I'm I I have done that as much as I should have or could have. But yeah, it's a it's a good but that there also is a line that >> of course I'm not saying it's funny like with Daily Stoic like we have a customer service person and when they like show me some of the customer >> service Daily Stoic >> Daily Stoic is so it's it's all about stoic philosophy that what we're talking about and it's a it's like a daily email it's social media it's this podcast but like you know we we sell stuff so like and it's funny to see the people who write in to customer service and how fundamentally un stoic they are >> as if again they like it's like hey you're not yelling at a computer like this is a person she sits right over there [laughter] and like I wonder if people have kind of started to assume that just everyone and everything they're dealing with is like a computer bot so it's okay to yell at them but it's like that's a human that you're talking to. >> Yeah. I I I'm not sure about that. But I think they just it's about venting and it's about, you know, the classic Karen uh thing. Yeah. I mean, cuz I you see enough of it. I mean, these these [ __ ] viral videos of somebody at a McDonald's, you know, like you didn't you put the wrong sauce and then they're throwing milkshakes at people. It's just awful. >> Yeah. >> You know, road rage. >> Road. >> That wasn't a thing until it was. And then it was like everywhere, you know. >> Yeah. But I like when I watch some of those videos, not to excuse them, I'm like this person is having some kind of psychotic break, you know, like this this person is not well. Like obviously what they're doing is not okay. And then this is obviously gets into things like, hey, maybe it's not a good idea given a certain percentage of the population is not mentally well, that we should just flood the country with millions of guns. That seems like a, you know, an explosive combination. But sometimes when I'm watching those videos, I'm like, "Okay, this person who's screaming at someone at Costco and they're in slippers and a robe and they're yelling and it's like obviously what they're saying is inexcusable, but like this person needs to be like medicated. Like this is this person is not well." Well, I mean, sometimes, sure, but sometimes I think people are it just it's that sense of entitlement. And it's kind of the similar logic of when there's a really long line for something and you're in that line and the thing that you're uh in line for is let's say to look at a painting. Yeah. This isn't the best example, but and you're in that line the entire time going, "Come on, just have move. All right, you've been looking at it for a minute now. Enough. Move on. There's other stuff." >> That's your process. That's what's going through all the way until you get to like three back and then you're like, "Well, I've waited in this line. I'm gonna take my time." You know what I mean? It's that kind of again not the best example but that that idea of that >> you know I am at your store and you're supposed the customer is always right and just the sense of entitlement that everybody has in any situation you know yeah I mean we see this with all these like nobody paid off my student loan debt or whatever it's like okay but it was a fraction of the it was a fraction of the amount whole groups were excluded from attending the college when you went. >> But also also also this will benefit you if this was a this is a thing. I know in your brain you're like that's not fair, but this will directly benefit you. If this person has less debt and they I mean this is Keynesian economics 101. Yeah. >> And then they have now all of a sudden they have money so that they don't have to work three jobs. They're not tired behind the wheel. Their kids are better adjusted. I mean, it it just goes >> Yeah, that one is so weird, too, because it's like it's the people who are mad about how unfair it is are the people who like to say life's not fair, you know, like like Yeah, it's kind of not fair. You had to do it and now uh they're not but it did it's not taking anything from you. Like it's not it's not >> but it's actually giving it it will benefit that person. Be that as it may, it's them them getting something that you didn't get is not taking anything from you, right? But it's hard. There is that sort of in immediate childlike uh part of us that's like, well, everyone should get the same. It should be fair. And it's like, that's not how it works. Isn't the whole point that the world is supposed to be better for the people that come after us? Like, isn't isn't that what our one of our main jobs as a human being is? Is to like make things less hard >> for the people coming after us? Like that's I I feel like that's kind of the point of a civilized society, >> right? It's certainly a worthy goal. >> Yeah. But getting angry about other people getting stuff is a very animating force and sort of always has been. >> Yeah. I mean, especially when it's the government, you know. Yeah. >> Particularly when it's the government saying this. >> Yeah. >> This the special is very very political. I mean, you open with the Trump thing and you have some other stuff. >> It's not really. It's It's I guess I guess if you're going to consider the abortion stuff political, I guess it is. >> Yeah. All right. >> I'm not saying it in a bad way. I I admire >> No, I know. I I just uh >> trying to turn people off. >> I didn't I didn't take I didn't take it that way. I just and I I suppose I'm being a little defensive here because I I have been really uh careful and worked hard at uh all like the last five, six specials, whatever of delineating like so a third and no more than a third of the hour and 15 minutes is uh quote political unquote or uh you know talks about religious stuff and then a third I try to make just really silly, dumb jokes, which I have plenty of. They have nothing to do with anything. They're just dumb jokes. And then a third are anecdotal things. This thing happened and I observed this and this is what I think of that. And I often I think because the political content can be kind of sharp. >> Yeah. Uh I think I and I I'm just this is a defensive posture and I so I apologize for that but it's just like uh people will kind of pigeon hole me as a political comic and I'm like I'm not I'm a comic who does stuff about politics. So that's where that came from and I apologize for >> No, it's actually what I what I was going to bring up because like it it feels like that word doesn't capture what it's like you're not like talking about like the marginal tax rate or something. Do you know like it it feels weird that we have to say like politics about you know what feel to me like basic issues of the social contract and like how uh like what's happening in the world and then people are like well why are you being so political and it's like well cuz I'm alive and I have eyes and I haven't turned my heart off to other human beings and what they're going through. >> So I feel like I have to say something. I but I I would like not to have to say something because I would like this not to be happening, >> right? So it's it feel but but I guess that what I was going to ask is it feels like you make a choice to to talk about it even though you understand at some level it's going to upset some people. Oh yeah. I've never cared about that. And I'm very, you know, I'm I'm a a polarizing figure and I I I know that and I'm not going to do anything to I mean at this point the ship has sailed about trying to please everybody and be like a you know clean comic who doesn't take sides, you know, but I have no interest in that. And and I I never ever not once have I ever thought, hm, I need to figure out a bit about uh women's rights in this country. It just occurs to me when I'm reading, thinking, walking down the street, whatever. And then a and then you work on stuff on stage. But I do consciously I will go this feels this hour and 10 minutes, 15 minutes feels too too political. >> Yeah. >> And I need to take some of this stuff and maybe I'll do it in the next special. But it, you know, so I do kind of I guess the reverse where I think, okay, this is too much about this. Let's get let's have some fun. >> But do you also go, hey, you can't just be talking about silly, ridiculous stuff when the world is on fire. >> It it just has never worked out that way. There's always >> there's always too much. >> There's always something. Yeah. >> Yeah. It really is about pulling that that that stuff back going, this is too much. I prided myself on and this special doesn't do it so much, but the last, you know, several tours where it's like I'm I'm not going to even get to this stuff until we're 30 minutes in. So, if you get upset and you walk out, you know, and that happens. I know that the first 30 minutes were inoffensive, had nothing to do with uh religion or politics or it's a story about uh whatever. You know, there might be a line here and there, but like I know you got at least 30 minutes, >> right, of entertainment before you went, "Fuck you." You know, >> and you chose you chose to do this one not in a sort of theater, the kind of glamorous maybe like uh special that people >> Can we turn the AC down? >> Warmer or colder? >> Uh no. Uh sorry. Uh off. Just turn it off. >> No. No. So the problem is it's So this is like the >> Oh, it's going to heat up real quick. >> No, the the out there the ceilings are like 20 ft tall, but in here it's small. So like it's so like the AC is very concentrated in this tiny windowless room. So it it either gets very cold or very hot in here. >> When it gets hot, I'll ask we're good. Uh >> character [laughter] >> Yeah. Uh growing up in the south, you do get used to just being way too hot or way too cold. It's like it's never the right one. I grew up in Georgia. Yeah. So, uh I know that thing, the inverse is true when you go like in New York and you have a particularly hard winter and you are bundled up in four layers and then you go into a bar or you go to a restaurant or you go to a movie theater and it's [ __ ] broiling. >> Yeah. And now you got to take everything off and basically strip down your shirt and then you Yeah. You have the kind of similar thing. And then also in the summer if it's hot Yeah. you know, and then you go see a movie and you're freezing like Jesus. >> I don't know how people lived here before like the idea that air conditioning is not that new of an or not that old of an invention is kind of crazy. Like it's >> Oh, and they used to wear wool suits. >> I know. >> It's like cassum. I you look at those old pictures, you know, lower side and these, you know, it's like 92° and there's people in these three-piece suits and hats and like, oh god, that's and it must have stunk, >> right? Oh, I feel like they don't talk about that. And what was the laundry situ? Like, these are in many cases like poor people. So, it's not like they have a closet full of 50 suits and they're rotating them. They're like they would wear the same shirt and just change the collar. So, like how disgusting must have everything been? And then they're like riding horses and like it that's just disgusting. I I don't have any idea how it worked. >> Well, I mean it's that's what they knew. >> Yeah. >> And so >> it seems normal. >> Yeah. >> I wonder too if some of the brutality of the world back then was just like everyone was so uncomfortable and miserable all the time. It was hard to have like a scale of like what was good. I lived in London for a couple years and you know AC newer newer places have them but like if you went through any kind of heatwave like we get here I mean there's most places don't have AC. >> They you know where people live and they've got uh you know the fans that plug in but that only does so much. I mean it's tough you know. No, thousands of people die every year in Europe from from just the heat and like that we that's obviously going to be one of the consequences of climate change is just like >> or Europeans dying. >> Well, we we just take it's not an American news story like we we talk like something there. It's actually similar. I'm I could be making this up, but I remember reading an article that was like gun violence versus like heat deaths across Europe are are fairly similar. Like so we we murder a lot of people every year, but like in other countries they just keel over from from the from the heat and like that would have been just background noise in the world for >> hundreds of years that just like in the summer sometimes you die from [laughter] from from sweltering in your in your tenement apartment. >> Well, you've been to uh Phoenix. >> Yeah. So, Phoenix is is there's a a handful of places in the United States where I'm like, why? >> This should not exist. >> What the [ __ ] And if you go downtown where they have like, you know, kind of concentrated corporate, you know, fun town things. And all the um like outdoor bars and the sports bars and and entertainment centers or whatever when you're downtown in Phoenix, all of them have these things on the outside uh on the street that missed you. Yeah. >> And that's so you don't die. Yeah, like the city is in order to live there and work there and and congregate and and go out to dinner, you have to you have to be wet by the city. The city has to wet you [laughter] down >> because you might die. >> Yeah. >> Why the [ __ ] would you move to that place? >> Yeah. Right. And the irony too of like it's hot also because everything is concrete and cement so it just like it sucks in the heat. Like Phoenix if no one lives there obviously it's still a desert but like nature does a decent job of making that somewhat hospitable cuz it's like it's hot during the day but it's cool in the shade and it's cool at night. But then it concrete slowly releasing the heat throughout the day. So it actually is hotter longer. It's it's madness. >> Yeah. Especially when we know there are measures you can take to rectify that situation. Yeah. >> To reverse it. >> But people really like golfing. So that's why >> golfing >> and that's where they do the golf. It makes no They're like, "What is the most water inensive like green thing we could have?" I guess we could put that anywhere in the United States where the climate makes sense, but what if we actually what if we put them in Palm Desert and and Arizona? That seems like that seems like the best place. >> Yeah. Just that's what we're going to spend our water on. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's like they're like there's nothing here. Let's build. And it's like there's nothing here because it's inhospitable and horrible. >> That's why it's madness. >> Well, Hopefully, we'll go to the moon [gasps] and uh build some golf courses up there. That'll be way spread out. Won't need this much water. I don't know how we get the We'll figure it out. >> Doesn't George Carlin have a thing? He's a golf >> arrogant game. >> A what? >> An arrogant game. Like like like we need all this space for one person to hit this tiny ball is madness. Yep. >> You want to see the bookstore? >> Yeah, >> let's do that.