How to Build Immense Inner Strength | David Goggins

welcome to the huberman Lab podcast where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday [Music] life I'm Andrew huberman and I'm a professor of neurobiology and Opthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine my guest today is David goggin David goggin is a retired Navy SEAL who served in Iraq and Afghanistan he's also a highly accomplished ultramarathon runner for those of you that don't know ultramarathons are distances longer than 26 mil and in David's case often longer than 200 miles for his achievements in athletics he has been inducted into the International Sports Hall of Fame he also held a Guinness world record for the most pull-ups completed in 24 hours I should mention that Not only was David a decorated Navy SEAL but he also graduated from Army Ranger school David is also a highly successful writer having authored two books the first entitled can't hurt me and the second entitled never finished both of which are best sellers David's books cover many topics including his autobiographical description of what can only be described as an incredibly challenging child and young adulthood his home was abusive his school environment was abusive he essentially had no positive resources directed his way and in his 20s he found himself to be obese that is more than 300 PBS working a job he despised for minimal pay and it was at that point that David began an inner dialog OG that forced him to explore the demons born out of his childhood but also the position that he found himself in as a young man and then began the journey to navigate that dialogue and transform himself into the Navy SEAL the ultramarathon runner the bestselling author and the extraordinarily positive and influential man that he is today as some of you may know David has done various public lectures he's a familiar face online because there are so many clips of him on YouTube and he has done podcast before however I'm certain that you'll find today's discussion to be very different than previous podcasts that David has been featured on the reason is that of course we get into his accomplishments we talk about the mindset that allowed him to achieve those things but today David really lets us under the hood he lets us into the form of inner dialogue that he has to embrace indeed that he has to Grapple with on a daily basis sometimes multiple times throughout the day and night in order to impose the sort of self-discipline that he is so well known for we also get into some of the scientific mechanisms underlying willpower and we talk about David's current Endeavors that include for instance his own exploration of science and medicine for which he has become an intense scholar and practitioner I should mention that multiple times throughout today's discussion you will hear curse words now David and I both acknowledge that cursing isn't for everybody and that cursing itself is different than than cursing at somebody nonetheless we do realize that many people parents perhaps especially might not want to hear cursing if you don't want to hear cursing well then this podcast episode is probably not for you however if you are comfortable with cursing or if you can tolerate it I assure you today's discussion is highly worthwhile before we begin I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford it is however part of my design an effort to bring zero cost to Consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public in keeping with that theme I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast our first sponsor is Maui neui venison Maui Nei venison is the most nutrient-dense and delicious red meat available I've spoken before on this podcast and there's General consensus that most people should strive to consume approximately 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight now when one strives to do that it's important to maximize the quality of that protein intake to the calorie ratio 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learned about Aeropress well over 10 years ago and I've been using one ever since Aeropress was developed by Allan Adler who was an engineer at Stanford and I knew of Allen because he had also built the so-called aobi frisbee which I believe at one time perhaps still now held the Guinness Book of World Records for furthest thrown object and I used to see Allan believe it or not at parks around paloalto testing out different aobi frisbee so he was sort of famous in our community for developing the different Feats of engineering that turned into commercial products now I love coffee I'm somebody that drinks coffee nearly every day usually about 90 to 120 minutes after I wake up in the morning although not always sometimes if I'm going to exercise I'll drink coffee first thing in the morning but I love love love coffee and what I've personally found is that by using the arero Press I can make the best possible tasting cup of coffee I don't know what exactly it is in the Aero press that 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eight sleep currently ships in the USA Canada UK select countries in the EU and Australia again that's 8sleep.com huberman and now for my discussion with David goggin David goggin welcome man good to see you again man great to see you it was late 2016 early 2017 I believe when you were in my lab at Stanford yes sir uh we did a little work later that that day down in San Jose and gosh uh see you everywhere but it's not enough so great to have you here thanks for having me on brother yeah you embody discipline and doing hard things right I think you just start right off with the let's go there the Bold truth but right before we went hot mics right we were talking about learning right right now you're spending some time learning and doing things that I think most people probably don't typically associate David goggin with right why don't you tell us about that well most people just look at me as the guy that runs and yells as he's running and that's uh while I do that you know to motivate people but people don't understand that my day is broken up into segments I work out I eat I sleep but I spend most of my time studying so like I'm in the medical world I'm a you know paramedic in uh in Canada but I spend a lot of my time trying to Nuke every single thing about it because I'm not trying to just be a paramedic learn about veins and arteries and how the heart pumps and stuff like that I'm trying to learn to the point where I can save someone's life and even though paramics are doing that all over the world I'm trying to be that paramedic that can really dissect exactly what's going on and figure out you know what medication goes where just trying to know just trying to learn you know the the algorithm of what's going on man so I spent a lot of time with it I love the word algorithm because when I teach biology or try and learn anything that's related to biology and especially the human body right I need to know the nouns yep but it's the verbs that matter and that's really what you're talking about like like just saying that that sits there that brain part there doesn't tell you how it all works together no so what does your process for studying look like like if we dropped a uh a uh camera in the room but a microphone into that into your inner dialogue right gosh wouldn't wouldn't we all love that but if we dropped a microphone into your inner dialogue are you waking up looking at the books and going yeah fresh day let's learn or is some of the same resistance that you've talked about coming up around physical yep work is that coming up from time to time you know what I was nervous at first I'm GNA keep the mother I'm Gonna Keep It Real I'm G keep it real so I'm not a real smart guy and what I mean by that is I was born with ADD ADHD all like my brain cannot retain information I'm not some genetic freak when it comes to running when it comes to lifting weights I'm I am absolutely the bottom of the barrel and people will never believe me and they can just you know whatever believe what you want to believe so when you ask me this question about what the studying look like for me I have to go over the same page over and over and over and over again while Jennifer can look at that page while she's you know quizzing me she'll learn it right then as she she don't know anything about it she will quiz herself or quiz me and learn it as she's quizzing me it's the most frustrating thing in the world how my brain works so what I so what I do is I literally sit there with a pen and paper and I have my books and I go through and have to write everything down every every single day I will study the same page until it's photographic memory from writing the same thing down and then from there I'll go back through and relearn again so I'll learn the bulk of it but then I'll go through and learn the small things within that so if it's a medication I'll learn what the medication does I'll first I'll learn how to even say the medication because these medications aren't like like you know like alall no it's it's it's very big words so I'll go through learn how to say the name then I'll go through learn what the dose is then I'll go through and this is like every single day so not like oh I got it let's just go through no nothing is I got it every single thing that's so I I I can't wait to get in this conversation because everything I do in life it sucks everything I do in life it sucks that's why when I was 300 PBS and 24 years old it wasn't like it had some big epiphany of let's just go be a Navy SEAL and let's lose some weight no I knew my entire life was going to be a struggle which is why I just ignored it and I said I'm not even trying to jump off into this and learn how to read how to write how to memorize how to become something I am not but through that process something happened to me and I realized that's this is why I feel sorry for no one in this podcast they're going to really not like me because people are going to think that I am maybe lying or maybe fibbing or exaggerating no I am literally I was the lowest form on Earth no Talent no ability to learn and I literally know what it is to be rock bottom and to build that up so that question about learning it's a pain in my ass and I don't have to do it that's the thing about it I'm 49 years old and am a multi-millionaire I don't have to do anything so all I thought about when I was growing up is man I can't wait till one day get to the point where I no longer have to do this stuff but what happens I got older it became a way of living so how I do every day is how I do every day it's a it's a discipline it's a regimen it's a it's a it was a choice I made and the choice I made was what are you willing to sacrifice and what are you willing to give up to find every bit of who you are as a human being and I was willing to give everything to do that so studying is no joke I love that you're studying I recall a few years ago I heard uh some interview or podcast with you and you just threw out like I don't know what I'll do next maybe I'll be a scientist and I and I went yeah I was like because I knew because I know you a bit and I see your work out there but we' met before that if you decided that you were going to do it right and learning medicine which is what you're doing right learning human physiology is so detailed and people uh out there have to understand when you look at a textbook and you see the the veins and the capillaries different colors in the when the body's open they're not different colors right you they're not so I mean some things are have different color contrast but it's not like it's all labeled when you pop it open exactly and so so the process of writing things down by hand is important for you do you so you go back and read those notes do you think about that stuff on your runs too or you segmenting your day like when you're done studying are you heading out for a run and thinking about other things or are you still rehearsing the material in your head so when I write it down I write it down and I'm able to I'm actually looking down at this table right now because I'm back to WR so I'm actually there right now as I'm speaking to you I write it down in a way that I'm memorizing page 69 so I'm writing it down so then writing it down and that page sync together in my brain so I'm looking at the book in my brain right now so like that's just how it works for me and I have to do it over and over again so that page is stuck in my mind so I'm literally flipping through pages as I'm taking these tests and I'm taking these National tests to become a paramedic or become a advanced EMT or whatever I'm literally as I'm taking that test I'm going through and I'm like and I'm flipping pages in my head of where that page was and how I do that is just from how I how I write it and how it's on the page when I run I can't recall any of it I cannot I cannot bring any of that because I'm running how my mind is wired now is that everything I do is what I do because the focus it takes for me to like right now I'm running I'm not like a great Runner I'm not like injury-free so like my first 20 minutes of the run I'm limping I'm literally limping because I've had several knee surgeries and my body was twisted and so now it's untwisting so people look at me oh looks like he's limp you know like limping when he runs I am limping when I run my body's jacked up so I'm focusing on how to get the best out of a broken body so everything I do is a total focused on what I'm doing at that at that point in my life so it seems like you've really trained away or somehow gotten away from the add that you mentioned because what you described it's like a deep trench like a v-shaped trench I'm imagine like there's a ball bearing it's like and it can only go forward in that trench right or back and it goes forward it's not like sliding around at the like concave at the bottom like attention so it's like you trained that up is there a similar feeling when you're in the full Focus us of running versus full focus of studying is it kind of feel like oh yeah that's the same Groove but different thing or is it just completely different world it's a completely different world complet like it's just both of them for me is is suffering but suffering a whole different way like when I was going through school I'll never forget I think I was in third grade and back then you know ADD ADHD wasn't like you know here's this medicine or here's this thing they want to put you in a special school mhm so for me I was so far behind in learning that their big thing was let's just put him in a special school because he'll never learn and through that process of like I don't want to be in a special school I don't want to be treated any differently it really like I never took medication I've never taken medication for this that's right right now you see me looking right in your eyes what the hell is is you know is you been saying right now and that's that's why I don't feel bad for people who have ADHD who have learn disabilities and some are impossible because you just can't but a lot of them you can and but people don't want to go through the process of focus of teaching yourself how to truly Focus this is where my message gets lost it gets lost because I may say you know MF or F where you know I may be because that's the passion that comes out of me because that's it takes every everything for me to learn a sentence so when I speak about David Goggins I can't speak about David goggin in a way that's just calm and cool because when I wake up I know the journey that takes for me to find my greatness and it's hard every nothing is easy nothing just like oh I wake up and I just do this or I do that or it just know I watch people every day go through life and it's so easy for me to be where I'm at today it takes every bit of me so when I speak about it and as I get going here you'll start seeing me the temple will rise the passion will come out because I'm back there I'm doing what I do every day to become a human being and so nothing is easy like running is running it sucks but you have a choice to make do you want to sit down and go back to that guy you once were no so this is what it takes this it it takes that misunderstanding of people and they'll never get it because they were never David goggin so that is what it takes for me to do what I do it may take you something differently so for me everything has to be in the studying everything has to be into this everything has to be in everywhere I am has to be there me focused where I am that's why you're my second podcast I've done since Rogan since the book came out I don't have time for that because if I want to be great I'm not trying to maximize money or maximize people knowing me I do these things because maybe someone out there will understand me and get it and say I can grow from this guy and others just won't sounds like friction is something you're very familiar with I just this a word just is I feel like it's like cast above us right now in bold face highlighted underlined letters is friction is gross friction like you're you're up in the morning and I imagine David Goggins going to the coffee maker stretching out good morning sunshine and you're telling me from eyelids open there's friction yes and that is the thing that people don't they don't get the biggest misunderstanding about David gaggin of all time it's like whether you believe in God or not I do he put this lab rat which is me on this planet and said let me see what a beat up abused kid who has who can barely learn barely learn who has a twisted body messed up messed up genetics Sickle Cell this and that let me give him everything that pretty much disqualifies you from the military but back then it wasn't as and let's put him in this and see what comes out of it so to do that friction you don't wake up in the morning time and go to coffee maker matter of fact sometimes you don't even sleep what it requires is when I'm at 2 o'clock in the it's 2 o'clock in the morning and my brain is thinking about a drug and I got to get up and look in my book to see if that drug is how I remember it and this is every day of my life that's why when I train a fighter or I train some I'm like you have no idea how great you really are because you are using such minimal minimal of what you have and if people can learn to focus this is what's possible while it may not be pretty like people want to do a documentary on me I go no I want you to do documentary on me because I will have normal everyday people picking me apart on his life is miserable who wants to live like that he looks it's crazy how he it's almost like he's sick he's psychotic the most frustrating thing in the world for me is when normal people judge a man like myself on what it really takes to extract greatness from nothing it takes every bit of who you are if you choose that route if you don't Merry Christmas do what you got to do but yeah all these things for me like like I told you I'm gonna keep it real I I'm not coming here to talk about like you know perform without purpose because I go through when I write these books I go through I try to dumb down David gas how can I give normal people and I'm normal but I found something that most don't want to find how can I speak to people and give them something from this crazy psychotic brain that I've developed how can I give him that so I sit down with Jennifer for years and write down perform without purpose callous your mind armor your mind the cookie jar the accountability miror that people can use in their lives no no I'm glad it helps you but the barbaric life that I live that you have to live the almost Obsession that you must have to be great you can't put that in the book bro you can't put in a book you can't you can't write about it has to be experienced it has to be experienced and you can't even after you experience it to write it in the book it would seem like he needs to be locked up too too gory it's too gory it doesn't make sense for a guy that everything every second of the day he is trying to extract more from something he's constantly think he's constantly constantly disciplined never going off the path whatever is injured on him he figures away it's a conqueror's mindset and very few people if any can really understand what that is like a I'm almost 50 and I've been this way for almost 30 years like what you do for fun you you never like like these questions I don't I don't get them I don't understand them I don't so yeah I get asked that sometimes when are you for fun I start listing off all the stuff like podcasting reading working out but so some of that resonates but I think what's so truly unusual about what you're describing your process is that you know from go it's hard yep and I have to ask was being 300 lb having ENT I'm using the words you've described you've said it before you had a tendency at one point in your life early on tell lies try and get people's approval my ass off crazy haircuts attention seeking and and yet all of that triggered something that now is you know is extraordinary right do you think those hardships were necessary to flip the switch I don't know if they were necessary but it was something that made me feel I didn't feel good it was easy the brain that I was given as a child it was easy to go home and think about what how do I want to be a freak today how do I want to show up to school today and be a freak it didn't require me going home and opening a book up saying it's going to take me all year to learn this page so instead of learning that page I learned how to become a character and maybe that character that I created that 300 pound insecure guy that used to fake fake it to I make it type of guy you know let me uh become your friend let me lie to you until you like me type of guy when when you have any kind of any manhood Womanhood a human being a soul a spirit any I had no I I must have just this much pride because that's exactly what opened the door for me because every day you were a character every day you were a clown every day you open that Spanish book or that science book or English book and you like you looked at it was like it looked like a foreign language and you're saying where do I start where do I start and obviously it was necessary the more I talk about it it was necessary because what happened is I became haunted by the mere fact that this is my existence and you got to live with that I live with there for a lot of years and so I sat back and said okay all right I know what this takes and when you sit back as up as I was and I had a laundry list a table like this of what I have to do to become just a human being that can make ends me that can make a th000 a month just to get there was like oh my god dude like how I'm 16 17 I can't read I can't write and I oh my God I'm so behind the power curve and my brain is about being depressed and my dad beat my mom's not home and kids are calling me at school and I'm like oh my God man what the do I do and it wasn't like someone came around and said hey man you can do this this is all me so people want know where's this cold man come from I'm not trying to be cold it's the reality of my life it's the reality of a lot of people's lives and so yeah that had to happen for me to be haunted to be haunted to pull out to extract the goddamn today that haunting is something that's still there today because no matter how much you improve no matter how much you change who you are it's not permanent you don't just wake up and say oh my God man you're you're David Goggins you break records you do this you do that people want to know how are you how are you able to just be so hard because I never turned the thing off because once it turns off I go right back to the David Goggins that is and that's the guy that I'm constantly fighting every day and it's a choice and that choice makes you misunderstood it makes you crazy crazy that's why I hate social media in 2013 people wanted me to write my book I did it in 2018 took five years and the reason why I didn't do it I set at the table and Jennifer was there this before I I I she started working for me I started dating her whatever and all these people were there and they're like man you got to go on social media and I was like you man like I'm not that's it's it's poison it's poison because I knew what I did to get where I am and I'm gonna have these people these normal everyday people fat lazy in exactly who I was judging me CU I know it because I was once them all my hard work all my dedication I'm have some normal dude get his little brownie his little dingdong ho ho twinky sit there with this coffee picking me apart oh he must be unhappy he's just do you know how hard it is to put these shoes on every damn morning I G have you pick me apart so yeah there's there's a there's so much that goes into this that I was like this I never want anything to do with it so anyway I'm not a psychologist but knowing your story from what you've written what you've said on social media and elsewhere podcast and here now especially right it's amazing to me and frankly it pulls it my heartstrings a little bit I realize that's not what you're trying to do but that in the course of your childhood and in your young adulthood that no one ever got between you and the world no I forget where I heard it that like if a kid has just one person that believes in them right you know and I had my trials and tribulations but I had great coaches great mentors I attached to them I found them if they didn't necessarily find me right but I'm realizing that your situation was no one's ever said hey I'm going to stand here next to you or get in front of you right put a shield up M and so it's almost like you've got these different ver it's all you but there's versions of yourself that like you knew social media like I don't know that I have the wherewithal in 2013 14 15 16 17 right to get in front of myself while doing all this cuz I've already got so much going on in here right is that about right that is right but I had developed a lot of anger and I still have it it will never go away for the normal human beings of this world because when you put yourself in the sewer like I was in and please if someone saved me come out and announce it to the world there's no one there's no one so when you know that and then I'm sitting at a table with all these smart people are tell me what to do and and guiding me through my life now when I'm 40 years old you know I was I don't know 40 something years old now I'm 49 and I'm looking at them all and they're and they're now trying to guide me on what's right on this poison and so yeah what you say is right but for me it was more of I know now I don't need you to guide my future I know what's good for me and what's bad for me and for me it took every bit of focus I could I know social media that's why people love to go on there because they want to show you the good side of life I'm not teaching good side of life so I had to figure out a way when I came on in 2016 of teaching you what life really is for the majority of us is hell and so while people love to show you the cars and the house and the vacations and all that's good all that's happy I'm going to show you decide that I know most you're going through and people hide very well I don't want to hide anymore I HD it for 24 years so that's why now I told you we can talk about whatever you want because as human beings the one we the first thing we have to learn I also stutter real bad growing up so if you hear me stutter every now and then is because that was part of my life also so it's funny human beings want to show you the best side and they want to hide the worst side for me I'm going to teach you how to be vulnerable because that's the only way you fix yourself you don't fix yourself by coming out here and me selling you some books that's why I don't have them I forgot them I'm glad people got something from the book I want you to learn that the only way you grow is how to look at yourself and say okay like I did table longer than this what the I have to do to get somewhere there was nothing good on there nothing yeah I love playing basketball I left that out that's something I love to do I don't care about that that that didn't make the list because the list that I had to live by was it was the very list that was going to get me at this table with you to talk to you to the normal human beings which I once was about how you can get somewhere and how it looks looks very ugly there's no passion there's no motivation there's no oh my God man I this is no it's every day of your life just doing no passion no discipline no motivation yeah all these words I hate people I hate that so many people use these words now because it's watered it's someone sitting in the room by themselves and they figure themselves out and say God this is going to suck where's passion when you're 300 lb where's the motivation when you can't read and write where is it so how did this happened I just did I just did I said maybe at the end of this journey there'll be something there for me if not I can read if not I'm 85 pounds there was not there there there was there's no magic potion there's no oh let me wake up and look at some no all those words are over used they're it's all just do you're living how do you want to live how do you want to die how do you want to be remembered that's that's it that's it period as many of you know I've been taking ag1 daily since 2012 so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast ag1 is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that's designed to meet all of your foundational nutrition needs now of course I try to get enough servings vitamins and minerals through whole food sources that include vegetables and fruits every day but often times I simply can't get enough servings but with ag1 I'm sure to get enough vitamins and minerals and the probiotics that I need and it also contains adaptogens to help buffer stress simply put I always feel better when I take ag1 I have more focus and energy and I sleep better and it also happens to taste great for all these reasons whenever I'm asked if you could take Just One supplement what would it be I answer ag1 if you'd like to try AG 1 go to drink a1.com huberman to claim a special offer they'll give you five free travel packs plus a year supply of vitamin D3 K2 again that's drink a1.com huberman the word haunted m is ringing in my head yep I think it's such a powerful word yep because I was about to say seems like a huge part of your process maybe the entire process is it's all stick no carrot you know you talk about the carrot the positive thing and then there's the stick the thing you're trying to avoid yep feel like it's the way it's Landing for me m is it's all stick and gas pedal that's it there's no carrot you're not imagining oh when I'm a paramedic when the book is published and obviously you set those goals and you make those targets y but it's all stick all stick no carrot think about that I'm waking up right now studying like I have a test tomorrow I already passed the test think about that every day of my life that's what I must do just to retain what I learned four hours plus a day I go through and do that there's no stick or there's only a stick there's never been a carrot which is why when I speak to people I have to figure out a way to resonate with them cuz all I want to say to them is let me teach you the real life how it really is the reason why you're a loser and the reason why you're not making it and the reason why you're trying to go through all these I go to all these conventions speak all the time I look in the audience and these people sign up sign up sign up every year to go to Convention thinking they're going to learn something different no you're lazy you know exactly what to do exactly what to do because even me in my state of I can't read and write I knew exactly what to do it just sucks doing it it sucks to do it it sucks to wake up every morning of your life and say God man I'm I'm not smart so guess what I gotta do I gotta I gotta study the same that I got one of the highest scores in the nation on and do it again do it again do it again it's not just there it's not just there permanently for me so yeah it's all stick it's all stick the only care that you have is like maybe maybe because whenever I take these tests that are real hard in the back of my brain it's like the good chance you're not gonna make it Goggins this ain't you bro this ain't you you weren't born like this this ain't you the real you bro study all you want to but the second that computer comes on with 150 questions this ain't you man and somehow comes back I passed passed again passed again but that rued me back here every time is saying that ain't you bro that ain't you and I have to outwork that voice when I'm taking that test and I get to a question I don't know the answer I'm like man and then say I told you man that ain't you you 300 lb man you sit at home you figure out how to do your hair that's what you do how to come to school with the reverse baldness when you're 16 that's that that's that's you so there is no get out of jail free card this is why I say stay hard because when you weren't given the gifts the only thing you can do in life is stay hard and I know people cannot stand me they can't stand this talk this is all you can do there's no magic pill or a magic potion all you can do is outwork the man that God created or woman in you and what that looks like is unfun that's why I said do not do a documentary on me because people will not see the truth they will see what they want to see is I don't want to live like that good good and you will live exactly the way you live now questioning who you are wondering what is possible wondering what you are capable of doing that's how that looks or you can be me which am I happy I don't know never really thought about it don't really care about it because all I really cared about was I looked in that mirror I saw a piece of happiness wasn't on the mirror at 16 around 300 lb it was like oh my I'm looking for happiness no I'm looking look at myself in the mirror and say all right you did it again today you're a bad boy because that sucks I have about a couple minutes of that when I got the carrot second lay down and go to bed the carrot is gone because I'm waking up all through the night to check the work I did that day did I get this drug right did I get this right did I get that right what did I do oh my God I'm I'm already losing it it's a stick that stick is haunting you haunting it's following you around so no picture of Jordan on the wall you're not listening to YouTube inspiration video those would be all your voice anyway uh you're not U listening to your top 10 favorite songs just to get rolling and then lace the shoes hit the books you're it's all in here all in there I used to do that when I was fat Rocky I me people know that that was my thing uh round 14 was my thing and as I got older and older and older that started to go away and I started to create out all these people that I used to watch Rocky was one Barnes Elias from Platoon um Jack from A Few Good Men you know he's on the stand going crazy I saw a lot of these characters that I looked at and I was like man I ain't got none of that but they were characters after a while I lived a life so disciplined that everybody that I once looked to these fake characters I I I built that as a man and when I was younger I had this image in my mind of what does a man look like to me and I got all these people who are badasses characters and in my mind I became that and that's what kept me going a lot was I had this pipe dream of becoming a little bit of this and a little bit of that because when you have no parents raising you and you have no Role Models growing up you it's not daydreaming you start to create a reality like maybe I can be that and after becoming this guy that is the biggest thing I can ever do in my life is I became that guy that I once looked at all these guys now look at myself like God who the can do that I can't but what it takes is a a discipline that no one can ever even they they just don't they don't understand it they don't understand everybody has the ability to do it but they just don't want to they want to keep asking questions and keep going to seminars and the greatness is right in you that's why once again I'll say this a million times here I do not feel sorry for you I will not sugarcoat what I'm going to say to you because all of you know what I'm saying is the truth everybody knows this the truth this is what it looks like and you know it too you know it too this is what if if you ain't got nothing I hate to tell you what it looks like is ugly it's not a documentary it's not an HBO special you ain't G to watch hey man you guys gota watch this no it's like oh God this looks like a train wreck look like a nightmare this looks like this guy got no that's what it looks like hard work looks horrible it's not motivating it's not motivating at all ain't like Rocky round 14 he gets knocked down and do like this to Apollo Creed looks like a man being stuck in a dungeon and there's no way out but you have the key but you refuse to use it and that's nothing motivating about that so yes no document on David Goggins the real life David Goggins is the is the documentary it's all it's already being written you're it right yeah I'm going to share a little Neuroscience tidbit love it but I think it's one that you'll appreciate um most people don't know this but there's a brain structure called the anterior mid singulate cortex as we pointed out before that's a noun it's a name it doesn't mean anything we could call it the the Cookie Monster right but what's interesting about this brain area is there now a lot of data m in humans about some mouse study showing that when people do something they don't want to do like add three hours of exercise per day or per week or when people who are trying to diet and lose weight resist eating something right when people do anything that they and this is the important part that they don't want to do it's not about adding more work it's about adding more work that you don't want to do yes this brain area gets bigger yep now here's what's especially interesting about this brain area to me and by the way I'm only learning this recently because it's new data but there's a lot of it the anterior mid singulate cortex is smaller in obese people MH it gets bigger when they diet MH it's larger in athletes M it's especially large or grows larger in people that see themselves as challenged and overcome some challenge right and in people that live a very long time mhm this area keeps its size in many ways scientists are starting to think of the anterior mid singulate cortex not just as one of the seats of willpower right but perhaps actually the seat of the will to live see now we're talking and when I learned about the anterior mid singulate cortex I was like almost out of my seat and I've been in the the Neuroscience game since I was 20 we the same age and I was so pumped cuz I've heard of the amydala fear prefrontal cortex it's planning and action I could tell you every brain area and every I teach neuro Anatomy to medical students but when I started seeing the data on the anter mid singulate cortex I was like whoa this is interesting Y and all the data point to the fact that we can build this area up yep but that as quickly as we build it up if we don't continue to invest in things that are hard for us that we don't want to do that's the part that feels so gogin esque sir to me that we don't want to do like if you love the ice bath yeah I love the ice bath and you go from 1 minute to 10 minutes guess what your anterior mid singulate cortex did not grow none but if you hate the cold water if you're afraid of drowning and you get into water and put your head under yep then you're anterior mid and survive then the anterior mid singulate cortex gets bigger but if you don't do it the next day or if you do it the next day and you enjoy it because hey hey I did it yesterday woohoo happy me marry Christmas as you say Merry Christmas guess what the anter mid singulate cortex shrinks again yep to me this is one of the most important discoveries that Neuroscience has ever made MH because it's that I don't want to do something but do it anyway that's right that grows this area and it's almost like I have a friend he's been sober 30 years from alcohol and he always says you know the amazing thing about addiction is there's a cure the problem is it only works one day at a time yep and so you have to renew it every day that's right so the anter mid singulate cortex to me when I learned about it two two things went off in my head whoa this is super interesting and two I got to tell David Goggins about this and I waited until now to tell you because I felt like I well for obvious reasons I wanted to tell you and I wanted to tell you here well I love that because that's how I've lived my entire life I don't know anything about that but people go man you have such a strong will it's something that you build like I never forgot I was on a podcast one time and this dude goes you were blessed with a strong mind like the hell you talking about it's blessed with a strong mind you that's something that you have to develop you developed that over years decades of suffering and going back into the suffer that's why a lot of people who graduate Navy SEAL training they want to know like in my I talk about very openly all the time a lot of guys don't go don't want to go back into that water don't want to go back into the hard stuff maybe not in anything hard anything hard in life once you get through it it's like you become a p like how many PS you know want to go back to p camp none when something sucks so bad in life this is on this that we're talking about now very few people want to go back they're happy they graduated I realized I'm the same way I don't want to go back I have to go back I must go back because that is exactly where all the knowledge of my life exists was back there and what you're exactly you're talking about well I didn't know anything about this but how I grew a will was constantly doing these things to now it's just life I wake up while it still sucks it's just life you don't sit back and like oh my God like I have days I don't want to do but I know I'm going to do it I know from years of just doing it so that that that's that's beautiful and this is why I came on here with you today and I'm I'm glad you're talking about this because human beings need to hear this they need to stop hearing these hacks on this and that there's no hack bro there's no hack yeah you may this and that and saunas and all this that they yeah it's great there is no life hack to grow that thing how do you grow it do it and do it and do it and do it that's the hack the hack is gonna suck and that's what I realized that's what I realized life that's why I wanted to come on here today I didn't want to come on here and talk about no passion and purpose and how to get the out of bed and how to hit a alarm clock all this catchphrase because that wasn't how I lived it wasn't how I lived I lived I woke up like every human being does and goes man I'm a piece of today how the hell is this going to work out for me and you fight that and you fight that you don't override it it's no override button it's the conversation in your like in your head so how do you do that we don't have enough these conversations about the real conversation that every human being is having and they have no idea how to get out of it but they do it's that right there man you gotta build your will how do you build your will exactly what you said man exactly what you said well I feel like knowing the name of something interior mid singulate cortex doesn't fundamentally change us but one thing I like about biology is that willpower if somebody feels they don't have it feels like this thing that other people have but everybody unless their brain damaged like a whole right through their head has two anterior mid singulate cortex one on each side of their brain everyone has One MH they have two so I feel like it's just a question of opening the portal and the portal what I again I'm s to say 10 times and forgive me is I think people go oh I do hard things I do sets to failure and then I do four strps I love training with weights I love doing sets to failure I even like for stps but guess what I like four stps so I I'll tell you they don't build my anterior mid singulate cortex right because I like to do it that's right anything you like to do is not going to enhance this aspect of Willow and it seems so obvious once you hear it you kind of go oh yeah of course but I think you really close that Loop for people when you share what you're sharing today and what you've shared elsewhere before as well when you're trying to explain the friction is the critical ingredient right and I think people think oh if it's effort well then I'm getting better that's part of it necessary but not sufficient as we say in science but the suck part The Haunt being haunted the stick MH they're really unpleasant terms very these are probably the most unpleasant terms we've ever used on this podcast very those are the those are the levers those are the gears and without those this thing that you're talking about David Goggins as a verb right you know I sometimes make the joke but it's not a joke right Goggins is a name and it's a verb people go I'm GNA goggin that right right but that's I think again I'm not a psychologist but I think that's what you're talking about the stick the friction being haunted it's the suck part that grows this anterior mid singulate cortex so now you know why there's so many people that fail in this world to figure out their purpose their purpose in life where do I go because to grow that M you may not look like me how my daily life looks it don't look fun don't look fun so so it's a choice that people have to make in life but what's so funny about it is even the richest of Rich who have everything they always ask me this question I feel like I'm missing something I don't feel like I'm missing I don't have what you all have but you'll never in my life hear me tell you I'm missing something everybody is they're missing this feeling I found it long time ago I found it right there in that willpower thing when you're nothing nothing and change yourself into something like me you call it happiness peace whatever the you want to call it people are missing exactly what went on with David gogins why don't you smile I do I do but I figure something out that's why I am never you'll never hear me say I'm missing something I found it years ago you find it in the suck you find it in the suck and you find it repeatedly in the suck to the point where you know exactly who you are most people are missing something because they don't know who they are they never examine themselves they they've never done this experiment on themselves the lab rat we're all Lab Rats but you're all is the scientist you create your own self most people are missing something because they so much trapped in there I want I want to say potential I think that's word used out too much too there's so much in you that God or wherever the hell you believe in or if you're atheist in you that you have not un unlocked that you walk around with this gorgeous wife or or great husband all this money like God I feel like I'm missing something yeah because it's about 75% of you is still in there still chained up because you just didn't want to find your willpower didn't want to find your soul your will your heart your determination your guts your courage and what that looks like it looks scary like your little scary lab I went in scary to wake up every day and say I'm stupid but I want to figure out a way to be smarter versus saying man I just can't do that so you limit this box so so your box becomes so small of things you can do my box wasn't even a box it was a little like little pinhole and then through examining myself getting some willpower some courage it became bigger than this table but that's what we all do that's why I want to come here today and talk to you about real not no like hacks there's no hacks bro it's you against you you against you and if you misunderstand that you have a real problem real problem I can understand you misunderstand me running down the street shirt off this no yeah I can I can get it I get it if you misunderstand what I'm saying right now today the problem is you and you don't want to fix it well the children of wealthy people are a case study in how not having enough friction can destroy a life true statement I mean I could list off prominent names in the Press but those are actually the least interesting what's probably more interesting as an example is all the ones we don't hear about because we never hear about them right they just dwindle and wither or I think there's this big category of people I'm realizing as we have this conversation today that they're not super successful they're not struggling MH they're like successful enough that they never have to you can get to the point where you don't have to impose friction and you even said it right your bank account is in a place where you don't really need to do all the things you do probably not even a small fraction of them do nothing right but you realize the stick and being haunted is the uh the fuel in the engine right and you'd be a you'd be truly crazy to give that up because you you've internalized all that right but most people they're they're good enough yep for them yep and so they don't actually want to be better badly enough in order to start going rung after rung you well think about when you build willpower and think about how much I've built now that you know about this just I didn't know about this but think about how much I've built everything I've ever done in my life I didn't want to do everything every day I'm a lazy piece of and I'm one of the hardest working people that ever step foot on this planet Earth and I'm saying that very proudly because I know what I do it's not cocky I'll tell you I'm stupid and I also tell you the exact opposite of what I've done it's the truth it is the truth so imagine how much I've developed in that time frame but this the scary thing why most people don't want to do that build that willpower is because this scary it unlocks a whole bunch of things about who you are and who you're not and a lot of people don't want to go down that journey to discover who they are and who they're not because it's it's not a pretty journey I mean I've gone down it it's not like I went down at once I go down it all the time and when you unlock that and you can't just turn it off like people say hey how come you haven't retired yet I built all this willpower do you think it's G to let me just retire because my my my knees hurt it's telling me every morning I wake up like man I don't my knees hurt mouth my legs hurt my body hurts but you can still run so why aren't you running if you can still run there'll be a time when you can't lace them up anymore but you can still run so I still run when the time comes I can't run the body will say you just can't run but if I can still do something that willpower that I have created it makes me do it every day and that's what they don't get what builds a human being is you start with the small building blocks and before you know it man you become something that you it doesn't even make sense to most people because it's just who you are now that's why I can still run at 50 with broke with at 4 now with broke down knees and broke down body because my body knows you still can therefore I do second you stop the willpower is gone and that's beautiful I'm so glad you brought that to me because I always wonder what's this separation thing now at 24 years old I started building something that I didn't even know was going to be what it is now at 49 and that's all it was was just that this structure anterior mid singulate cortex has inputs and outputs from a bunch of places but you'll probably not be surprised to learn that it's strongly activated when we move our body when we don't want to move our body I feel like it it's like the David GOG structure right it is and it also has strong connections to the dopamine reward pathway and everyone goes yay dopamine reward everyone loves dopamine I'm partially responsible for people knowing a bit more about dopamine but dopamine's badly understood everyone thinks dopamine dopamine hits It's about reward it's about motivation and drive and there are pain inputs to the dopamine centers of the brain no one talks about that everyone's like oh you want the chocolate you know chocolate sex all yeah that's all true right release dopamine pain releases dopamine the an mid singulate cortex can trigger the release of dopamine in response to this thing that we're calling friction and that's a learned thing that's something that no animal or human being comes into the world learning we all are averse to pain and like pleasure like sugar fat don't like hot surfaces right but this is a structure that learns mhm it has has neuroplasticity the ability to change throughout the entire lifespan and here's the part that I think again is is just neuron nerd speake for what you already know and have done and exemplify is that it people say oh it has plasticity you can change it but guess what it has PL plasticity in both directions it can grow but just as easily as it can grow it's like Silly Putty it can shrink right so it requires constant upkeep right and that answer isn't one that people are going to like nope they're like give me the energy drink give me the supplement give me the yes give me the sauna protocol that's going to makeig my anter mid singulate cortex someone out there right now is going wait if I took transcranial magnetic stimulation and I stimulate yeah you'd probably actually they've done that they've stuck a little wire during neurosurgery into this structure this is actually discovered by a colleague of mine Joe parvey stimulate and the patients go I feel like there's a storm coming and they go oh is it scary and they go no I want to go through it they come off the stimulation and people are like this is the seat of what we're talking about right exactly and it learns so the fact that you've kept this brain structure I'm convinced if we imaged your brain it be large and it would be larger in two years a year but this is the no days off rationale because it can grow and it can shrink I know what you're saying right now I didn't know any of this and I never and I always talk to people I I wish I could just put this on paper and you're saying it in a way that people can understand I could never put in the words on what I built and the power that is within all of us but you put it so like in in a scientific way most people like for me he's just crazy that's why I don't like talking about it man I know I'm not crazy I know what I had to do to get where I had to go people look at as crazy because they people that just if you can't imagine yourself doing something if you can't imagine yourself doing something the person that's doing it is crazy because in your mind the logic behind it it doesn't compute therefore you have to give somebody a title and a title for me is usually he's crazy he's this he's that no no for some reason me wanting to beat somebody so bad in my life I created that and I've been trying to figure out years of my life trying to explain to people but even though you're explain it now this is the easy part them listening to this is the easy part the part that why there'll always be the ones of ones is because putting that practice putting that into actual work no man man no no that's where the demons come in that's where you're like I I I don't want to be better I don't want to be better if this what it takes to be better I don't want to be better so everybody's that's why there's a lot of average and it makes me so mad every day I walk this Earth and I see average all over the place and they want to ask me how did you do it I can't tell you how because you're not gonna you're not gonna do it not going to do it you you're going to continue being out because every day you wake up like he say it's not like get the coffee make the make the pancakes kiss the girl kiss the kids you wake up right to work immediate your mind is in action no one wants to do that no one and I don't blame them but don't be mad when you're laying there in your bed and you're in the hospital and you're 70 80 90 years old and you're thinking and I feel like I didn't do something because you did you didn't do it you didn't do you may Liv a great life man but you're always G to feel empty inside I don't feel empty so call me what you want there's not one empty bone in my body because I have figured out that really the magic potion at least to my life and it's very rewarding I'd like to take a quick break and thank our sponsor inside tracker inside tracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term Health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test now a major problem with a lot of blood tests out there however is that you get information back about metabolic factors lipids and hormones and so forth but you don't know what to do with that information with inside tracker they make it very easy because they have a personalized platform that allows you to see the levels of all those things metabolic factors lipids hormones Etc but it gives you specific directives that you can follow that relate to nutrition behavioral modifications supplements Etc that can help you bring those numbers into the ranges that are optimal for you if you'd like to try insid tracker you can go to insid tracker.com huberman to get 20% off any of insid tracker's plans again that's insid tracker.com huberman people like to talk about what they used to be able to do I hear this a lot you know you should have seen me in high school I always laugh yep like yeah okay got it um and it's not just guys you should have seen me working out in high school I was super fit um people will look back to a time where they felt like they were capable of something and now they're not and you kind of want to just grab them and go wait that was you then it's you now and but people tend to think about how the conditions that were around success must have been part of it and you can understand why it's like it's very rational I was in that situation I was successful I'm in this situation I'm not that was the past this is the present Ergo capable right you see how people get into these loops and as you mentioned you spent the first 20 years of your life in extremely challenged circumstances and then you can see how people get to a point where like everything feels hard like when you're 300 lb I haven't never been 300 lb but I can't imagine it feels good to get up and move around he defeating I got a friend he's in excess of 300 lbs we've been trying on him for years but no no win and he's got crazy psoriasis on the back of his calves and he he actually smells bad sometimes because he he um can't wash as well as he would he's big big right and uh it pulls all my sympathy right you know but life is very hard for him and getting worse he's a young guy with a lot of medical issues now for obvious reasons and so I think people like that think well it's already hard why would I make it harder your message is a little different and you have the life experience it's a lot different you've been there so for me saying oh yeah lose weight you know I was a skinny guy who got to be a less skinny guy so I don't really have a foot to stand on what do you say to those people who are like listen I'm getting up in the morning is hard trying to not dissolve into a puddle of my own tears and my own misery is hard you know why people connect with my book so well for some reason God put me in almost every up situation on the planet Earth so when I talk to people it's not sugarcoated because I I'm not saying it from I'm I was 175 pounds my whole life I don't say much to those people I maybe you're a piece of maybe you're you want to be nobody maybe you're happy exactly where you are in life cuz obviously you are maybe you don't have the determination to be somebody better than who you are and if you want to live with that I'll support you in that if you're good with being who you are that every day you wake up and every day you smell like because you can't wash your body well and your Skin's messed up because your Health's so bad and you can't put your clothes on right you need help with that you need help like when I wasam I need help wiping my ass that makes you feel good nothing I can say to you if every day you wake up with this see people are haunted but they obviously like horror films because they keep watching the same movie I don't like horror films a lot of people like horror films so I don't say much to them I say exactly what I said to you right there because I was once you I didn't like horor film so I changed it some people are just they become like you said it gets real small when you're lazy and you're fat your will their will is so small that they don't have any and you can't give it to them there has to be something this is this is what I'm talking about now because this isn't a hack this has to be in you something in you has to wake up and usually the only person that can wake up up is you sometimes you can read a David gaggin book because I was all this and then a lot more of up but if you don't have a little flame you know just that just barely you're done I can't I can't light it for you and that's the harsh reality of this life that I want to get across so bad you can watch me you can watch you you can watch Rogan and Cameron Hayes all these you can go to Tony Robinson all this do all this if you you could keep going back and keep spending money and spending money and spending money with no results you're gon wonder wow maybe let me go try out David Goggins he ain't gonna help you you have to explore examine the insides of yourself and what do you really want out of life your friend a lot of people out here just don't want it so guess what have fun with your life go from 3 to 350 to 400 to 450 to 500 because you don't want it and that's the harsh reality I can't give you you can't give them we give you ideas but in the day when I was losing the weight I had to miserably wake up every morning in the cold because it was Indiana November when it started I was miserable this is your new life take it or leave it there's no happiness about it there's no peace behind it it sucks it just sucks and that's the one thing if I could teach anybody anything it just sucks and it's going to continue to suck and then one day you get to a a special part in your life that it might get a little bit better but to lose the weight you have to lose my friend sorry it's going to suck every day because then when you're 300 pounds you're gonna go out to lose weight you could probably get injured so then you got to work on the injury and then you get even more depressed this is what I went through and then you're hungry because now you're depressed it's it's just a vicious cycle and if you're not strong mentally and you have no willpower you're going to continue falling back in this hole versus the man that sits back and goes all right this is why I cuss CU this is what is in me this this is what it took for me to be me sorry it didn't take hey okay we're gonna do this today no this really sucks this is real dude this is real and every day I'm I'm I'm I'm set back I'm set back I'm set back I'm set back so this what I would tell your boy this what exactly what I tell him every day you wake up you're going to probably be set back for the first four weeks before you lose to significant weight because of the mind is going to be with you the whole time there's no dopamine there's no dopamine in there at 300 pounds you got nothing your hormones are shot you have to Envision something that is more powerful than you something has to get you out of bed and you have to create it it has to be false cuz you're not it you're a fat piece of and that's the reality of it so you have to create a false reality to live in that just to get to work on yourself that's the reality he'll he'll see this and he'll appreciate that message we'll see what he does so far last 13 years it's been no movement but I've had other friends who uh who were drug and alcohol addicts who quit after one conversation never went back that's awesome that means the they won it yeah just one one guy I won't out him but walked up to me at a party in 2019 July 4th party and said uh I'm a pile and I go what and he goes I'm a pile look at me I'm 60 pounds overweight I go do you drink he goes every day I go how much he goes a case he goes I smoke a lot of weed but he's successful in other areas of his life so I said well here's what I know quit alcohol and weed for you you know I'm not telling people what to do don't eat until 2 p.m. get on the exercise bike and pedal in the morning like someone's chasing you with a poison dart till you want a puke and I was kind of half joking right and then uh two months later he was like I haven't had a drink I lost 30 pounds he lost that 60 lbs he never went back now he's he's super fit it's amazing so some people flip the switch he is very self-critical by Nature that's what flips he super self-critical yep that's what flips the switch yeah think about it man we know what to do we don't need Angie huberman to tell us what to do we know what to do every one of us that's why he flipped it so fast because he knew what to do he didn't go by your exact protocol he didn't go by the exact no he knew exactly what to do and you just saying some to him it woke something up he knew what to do and that's the thing that people need to get that you know what to do why aren't you doing it and I'm talking about myself now you know those modes of just kind of passive consumption they're so easy to wash over us I used to have this thing and I'm fighting this now because I knew we were going to have this conversation today where I like to start things on the hour or the half hour right worst practice in the world for me because if I miss that half hour I'm like ah it's 12:30 3 I'll start at 12:45 right ah it's 12:45 I'll start at 1 I just lost time right and then and so this is so stupid right and the other day I was like man I got to tell David about this because my new thing is I start no matter what time it is right if I wake up in the middle of the night I got a friend he Paints in the middle of the night I'm like you're an insomniac he's like I don't know I just do it then sometimes he goes back to sleep sometimes he doesn't everyone's got their thing but I thought about this I'm like I'm no more am I going to say I'm starting it one cuz I I know me if I miss the 1:00 Ding and my Pen's not hitting the paper not typing in the on the keyboard I'm not going to do it right like that that's a self- admitted weakness I love it man um I had that for a lot of years um I know I'm going to do it that's the haunting part is that it's going to happen it has to happen and that's a fact like there's no get out your free car bro none like that is a life that I don't know I don't I don't have that ability or I have the ability I don't have the um I'm not good enough smart enough I'm not talented enough to do that some people are some people can start at one some people know have to start it off if you lack Talent you can't sit back back and say I start in half an hour I can't do that I got to start now and after I get back from starting I gotta start again and when I get done with that run or that study session if it wasn't good enough I gotta go back again because repetition is what is is is what taught me everything so you can honestly outwork anything but it's that you obviously are a very talented man well I I have worked hard at certain things and built up some things that I've been good at most of my life you're amazing Gathering Tru organizing and disseminating information something I've been doing since I was a little kid I used to give lectures at school on Monday about stuff I learned over the weekend see check that out but they they took me to a psychiatrist we're the same age back then if you got sent to a psychiatrist me people thought you were crazy one exactly was exactly so so I remember feeling like a freak I also I didn't have a stutter but I had a grunting tick it comes back when I'm tired D and the only thing that helped that was hitting my head on something shaking my head which is why skateboarding was good because I'd slam and I'd feel like feel good that's not healthy you know that's not good or just work work is what gets it out it's like an it's like a RPM or high you know anyway that's me the but yeah I think certain things over time I feel like talenter gifts or whatever you want to call them but there are many things that are exceedingly difficult for me and I and have learned from your example I know that you you are very both humble and very clear that like you don't have you say I don't you're not going to get it by examining you but I think the way you're sharing today and the way you shared on other podcasts before there are pieces that really help people feel into the process of what you're talking about today we're elaborating on it I think a lot you know this notion being haunted and the stick right I mean of course of course now it makes so much sense why you don't want to talk about sleep or rest or recovery cuz that's sure that's important I've heard you say yes you sleep yes you eat yes you hydrate yes you you will stretch your soaz or what but it's funny how that becomes the viral message that's why I said that today but that's not the unique that's not the the unique message that you carry like anyone can talk about that so do I have that right that you're acknowledging sleep is important recovery is important but that's not what you're about you have to forgo something yes ice baths saunas sleep nutrition all this so important dude I don't have time for some of it to get to extract where I had to extract something had to give like you talk about you when you were younger you would you would give these speeches and stuff the same age you were giving speeches I was trying to figure out how to saythe without stuttering and I realized as I got older that all these things are important but for me to stop stuttering I got build confidence and speech therapy didn't help that nothing helped that I have to forgo a lot of to be as up as I am to build confidence for me to stand in the room of 10,000 of one person and not and be like oh put my head down let me look around let me let me um read these paragraphs first and then before I read the paragraphs cuz they call me next let me just leave the room kind with stutter that's a miserable life and that's one of many things I did besides lying besides being insecure besides being immature besides being fat besides being one of the only black kids in my school there a lot of things I had to overcome to gain confidence and in doing so a lot of that had to go a lot of it so I became the guy that became once again misunderstood you only sleep four hours a day two hours a day sometimes you don't sleep at all like what's this and what's this and what's this I know it's all important I can't something's got to go for me to get confidence because confidence is the building block of where I'm trying to go for me to gain confidence in myself this up kid has got to do a lot of up to gain confidence and along the way the stutter went away and I gained confidence and now my life is a little bit more there there's no balance there's no balance it's a little bit more what it should be for a lot of people but there'll never be balance because confidence is something that you constantly confidence and belief You're Building every day and so something's got to give and I'm willing to forgo a lot of things to have that because I know that is that is if you want to give somebody Kryptonite take that away from so yeah I I don't sleep sometimes and sometimes I don't eat the right way and sometimes I don't do this and do that and whatever man but you put me in a room with 10,000 people any time of the day and I walk in there think I'm the bad in here because I know what it took to be on this stage and a lot of people will not do that so that's what it takes there's a question I've been wanting to ask you since we started and I thought about coming in here and I've been thinking about in the weeks ahead of this and I'm gonna just come clean and say I don't exactly know how to ask the question just ask it so it's about relationships oh do it man so I know in myself MH that my discipline is much higher when it's just me but that's because I had certain things early on but then I had I was a terrible student barely finished high school but then when I got serious I got serious but I did that by staying away from everybody and anyone's who's ever had a relationship of any kind but in particular romantic relationships knows that yes you can derive tremendous support from those like you got this baby you can go and you're like yeah I got this she said I got this you know feels great to finish something and share with someone share a meal you know get the hug it but there's another side to all of that right that I'd like to learn more about from you which is there's a warm body next to you in bed in the morning you don't want to get up they also have needs you've got your mission there people sometimes need things from us but also often times the people that love us most that truly love us and that want to support us don't understand this thing MH and they're the first people to tell us like listen take a day off and then this whole cycle at least in my head goes off like you just want a vacation and then it's almost like a paranoia I'm not saying anything nice about myself right now right oh good man former girlfriend's going to be like yeah like like you know that they remember they and and so support of people close to you is critical MH this could be friends could be romantic Partners whatever but they're also the the knife Cuts both ways it can be the thing that can really undermine this thing that you're talking about because the people that care about us also want to see us comfortable right they want to see us happy they want to see us peaceful they want to see us in a wake up from a great night's sleep and they want things too right so how do you untangle that whole bit well it's funny man I'm I'm going balanced but I'm mostly unbalanced towards the family side people don't get about me I start being unbalanced I get all my stuff in but what I do is I make sure that my family has everything they need everything they need those who want to be part of my family some don't some family members don't want to be part of David ckins I get it I got it that's life those who are part of my family I give them everything they need so they can leave me the alone I make sure you're happy as because I gotta go to work and I don't mean smoke jumping I don't mean running I mean all of it it takes every I can't have you in my can't so I know for me to have a family I gota make sure that you realize I'm gonna give you everything you need so when you start bitching at me I'm G say look hang on I dedicated my life to give you everything you need I need this time right here for for me to be the best I can be because this journey started without anybody and I make sure everybody knows that who comes in my life I've been left think about it I was left alone at a long at a young age to figure the out I figured it out for myself and it been very successful for myself no one's going to come in here and with my that's why I make sure I will take care of whatever you need whatever you need from me you got it money house my love my support I'm going to give you everything you need that said I do it the highest level possible I'm saying with Jennifer in the Next Room so please come here and say something if it's wrong Jennifer I don't give a say what you got to say so then when it's time for me to go to work I expect you to do the same for me because it takes every bit of me to do what I have to do so I make sure that I'm very unbalanced for my family so I can be exactly that unbalance for myself and that's how I do it I let people know right up front I'm not what you want in a man I guarantee that there's gonna be a lot of late nights a lot of early mornings a lot of times where I gota be by myself thinking about the process that is next in my mind I can't have aggravation I can't have this can't have that there's a lot of things but I let them know up front I'm very vocal about that sometimes relationships work for me sometimes they didn't but that's who I am one thing I did wrong in my life was I tried for so many years to please people and I did it at the expense of myself I was leaving a lot in the tank and I and when you do that you stop living but the person in your life is happy as cuz you're giving them everything they want they have their their life is full but you feel empty and that's not a relationship to me so for me it's important that you know exactly who I am because this is what life made and I'm not trying to change it because I just figured it out so I'm not trying to compromise David Goggins I will never ever compromise David Goggins that doesn't mean I won't give you what you need and what you want and what you desire but I don't need money I don't need Fame I don't need so I give it all away what I do need is to make sure that that willpower is worked on every day and every night for the rest of my life because that's the one thing that's G keep me feeding you keeping you where you need to be because once that willpower is gone 300 pound David Goggins he may not be look like it but I will walk around with it so the things that are important to you in life you must do always or you're nobody and that's how handle relationships Amen to that something I could personally work on is that upfront clear communication because I I it resonates that feeling of like there's something inside that's not getting worked out that I was when I'm on my own it's it's it's it's a lot easier but then of course wanting relationships and family I think that's a healthy part of Being Human Too obviously you've worked it out so I appreciate you sharing that I don't think I've ever heard you talk no people are scared of that man people are scared of that conversation with their wife husband girlfriend boyfriend and but why are you scared of it why are you scared to tell a your wife your husband who you are who you are exactly who you are and that was the problem I had that's a problem that a lot of us have in life no one knows who you really are no one knew who I really was I went to a school where there a lot of black kids a lot of black kids didn't want to be in Special Ops I never talked about special ops with black kids why I was wondering what I'm not going to fit in that's not what they do a lot of black kids don't do that kind of so whatever I wanted to do no one really knew the real me growing up because I never want anybody to know the real me I was always afraid of what you might say or how you're going to feel or whatever you got feelings you have a life that you have to live so it's important that whatever is on your mind you let that person know therefore you're giving them the option to be with you or not this is who I am if you don't like it that's good man I I got it but this is David gogins so there that that honest conversation is very important man so everybody knows where they stand that person may not be for you that's all good this world could use a lot more of that upfront completely honest conversation I feel like so much of the world's problems are because everyone's dancing around the issues a lot recently in the news seeing people losing their job because they won't say something publicly you can tell they kind of want to it's like people just I think deep down really crave the direct message like what are you about what are you not about but I think now everyone's afraid of getting cancelled it's a big deal right you know getting canceled that people think oh I can't work if I am who I am or or um if I'm not pretending to be somebody else than you know silence is considered you know agreement you know there's all sorts of complicated stuff and I I do feel for the generation coming up because we didn't have social media right and all of that that getting just walled off from that there's a real benefit from just not paying attention people love to lie people love to lie you know I thought I was the only person grow like like when I was growing up I thought I was only person that lied because I live in the bubble and people love to lie about who they're not they love to lie about who they're not dude and that's for me the reason why I'm so vulnerable and I'm so real and honest find somebody to come out tell me I'm lying about my life and for me to come where I came from and how the resume I have now you know the confidence you get how I don't care who you GNA you g to judge me you're gonna judge me what have you done in your life so me being so honest and so upfront and so truthful that came with me finally figuring out who I was but also conquering David Goggins the Demons of David Goggins therefore now you're just an open book you look at somebody looking right in the eye tell me exactly who the you are you walk away I'm good bro I know exactly what this journey took to get here and that gives you a fire and a passion that people can call you they can call you if you're a lesbian or gay or bisex call what the you want if you put yourself in the fire and you come out every day like this fresh it off not scared to go back in there again come on man your truth is real you come out every day man with a way of talking to people that people don't have because there's no truth behind them and the truth is a starting line when you sit down the ugly mirror and say I'm this I'm this I'm this I'm this you finally started your life maybe 40 years old maybe 40 years old five six kids wife but second you look in that mirror and you say I'm this I'm this I'm this I'm this I'm this well basic I'm not this I'm not this I'm not this I can't do this I can't do this I'm all these insecurities your life finally started and once you start that life man the truth comes out big time because you don't long care so that's the problem most people just don't want to have that conversation to the point where they can go on stage with a million people and say I'm always this and have a good day see you it's it's empowering it's very empowering I feel like the the way we're educated in school but also outside of school is we're trained as human beings these young brains to try and figure out how to get positive feedback from other people yep it's like we're we're like little dogs y you have a bulldog I had a bulldog saw the picture of your Bulldog she's she's great they're Charlie dog they're an amazing species they are I think of them uh economy of effort y or amazing breed excuse me they're an amazing breed economy of effort they don't do anything unless it's necessary it's kind of the exact opposite of everything we're talking it's kind of interesting that and they're kind of heeding this now it is true that they will they'll die to protect you oh yeah and it's an instinct I saw that with Costello I'm sure that I saw with Charlie yeah it's it's an instinct but if they're not in that position if there's no need to exert effort they're resting yeah so your Bulldog's resting for you you yes got it exactly so you don't need to rest cuz active recovery Charlie perfect that's it perfect that's going to be your answer from now on does he sleep does he rest go no he somehow worked it out so his Bulldog does it for him right but we're sort indoctrinated into this way of being from a time that we're young where of course praise feels good right someone tells you hey I like that shirt or good job today or nicely done or I for me cuz I like growing up in a big packet friends growing up and I was never the greatest athlete wasn't terrible wasn't great Etc like a fist bump or like a feeling crewed up and you're just like yeah but you've talked about this before in reference to the SEAL Teams we both know a lot of people in that community and the teams component is a big part of it for a lot of people and it's a wonderful thing right but there's a danger to that dopamine hit for lack of a better way to put it from what we could only derive when it's coming from outside you're talking about being able to either say good job but also like just look to one's own personal history and say I I've done hard things and I can do it again and again because I do it again and again and again you're talking about parenting yourself yep inspiring yourself yep scaring yourself all of that from the inside so very different than the way we're raised which is to figure out how to get the biscuit it's funny man people want to know how I'm always motivated it's the Unseen work which you just says a true statement those are false dopamine hits that people are giving you man there's no belief in that these are team work dop me like I'm out running at 2 o'clock in the morning 1 o'clock in the morning in the gym long sessions by myself you that's real how I'm I able to just extract dopamine a good dope for me whenever I want man I've trained 99% of my life alone no one packed me on the back I did all of the work alone and while I'm still hard on myself I know what I did so whenever times get bad for me people all this who's going to carry the boats and lot that's real I hate that people know me for that guy because that guy is not every day like when they see me they want that energy that's not me every day I can extract it immediately when I need to because when you train alone and I lived alone for so many years in this misery and you're able to get out of it by yourself I can take myself to such a level of real real passion and purpose and like the feeling I get is something I can't even expl by myself I don't need anyone that's why that's why people come to me to motivate them no one can motivate me I have a resume full of motivation that whenever I'm down like oh hang on oh you know you know the truth you know the truth you know the darkness of the Dungeons and the demons that fly you know and then from there it's like okay you were there you know this there was no one there to pick up the ruck sack to pick up the boat to pick up the log to go in that it was you it was you there was no pat on the back at 300 at at 275 at 250 at 220 no that was you so those things that come out of me that extract from me in the darkness people are looking for that P on the back where is it oh I don't need it because what I've done is in the unseen work I built Frankenstein so whenever shck gets nasty David gogins Goes you had nobody anyway so see I'm talking myself right now that's me that fires me the up that makes me nuts you had nobody anyway look around you there was no team it was you there was no weight loss program or Mom and Dad waking you up saying you can do it you can be better trying to build belief you built belief when you had nothing Rock Bottom you did that so as times get hard for me the truth comes out and my truth is powerful as it's real it's tangible I feel it it comes out of my brain as I speak about it I'm reliving every single dark moment of my life to be here so that is what people don't get that is what motivates David Goggins is the Unseen work but everybody needs that P on the back they need that training partner they they need that accountability coach I don't need that and neither do they but it's what we've trained ourselves to believe that we need it's almost like there's this pill on the Shelf I'm speaking in analogy right and we take it and we get jazzed up we're like yeah but there's this other medicine cabinet behind there and it's in US you're saying the the real medicine cabinet is inside oh yes when you continue to overcome and I had so many obstacles overcome so it's actually a benefit to me but the benefit is not like a benefit like that you have to have the courage and the patience to overcome and overcome before you know it man you have a whole medicine cabinet but there's no medicine in the there's no preworkout I don't take none of that all I gotta do is flip my brain put my finger in there and say okay that's a good one it's all I got to do man I got got the roll ofex of just like go yourself Goggins and oh but you won let's do that one today there's nothing I need and this is the thing that people don't get about David gokin I can't teach it in a one minute video we all have this ability to have our own medicine cabinet but unless you go in there and put the medicine in there it's always going to be fun empty man you always going to need the Pre-Workout you going to need I don't drink coffee I don't do c I don't do none of that I don't need I I can run for 70 hours and I had before no caffeine I got all this wonderful that I overcame On My Own by myself in the darkness that man when it's cold I'm hot when it's hot like I I I can feed myself all the time and that's why when people say man why aren't you missing anything I can't explain it to you man can't explain it to you you you you'll never understand that's why I don't do all these podcast dude I got I I love you man that's why you my first book you did a blur for me that's why I'm here I love what you're doing for people man but I can't explain this I can't I can't explain this because people don't want to do this they don't want to do this man but it's I don't know man I get I get jazzed up even talking about it man because so many people think my life is just so oh God his life is horrible like don't don't follow him he's crazy really but there a good number of people I would say and that's an that actually do I think it I what I'm hearing today and it's really sinking in is that a great many people either partially or completely misunderstand you yes I'll put myself in the partially category big because I thought it was about just like forward Center of mass carrot carrot carrot carrot but it's the stick it's the stick and it's being haunted and you know I do have examples from my own life which is not what today is about about being really afraid and then turning things around right my biggest fear is getting comfortable right I do not have as much of a stick oriented approach but today's conversation changing the way I think I'm not going to step away from this and think okay there 25 neural circuits that can explain 10 of the things that David's talking about and what I'm thinking about is the fact that everybody has a brain they have a mind forget the brain the brain is just the physical structure but what that manifests what that creates is the mind and everybody has that so I do believe that everyone has the capacity to do what you're talking about at some level I also will be the first to confess that I think you're are highly unusual let's just say maybe even n of one as we say in science sample size of one right somebody who has created this process for themselves and keeps them in this themselves in this forward centered Mass with the stick battering the back of their head all the time right highly unusual but this internal medicine cabinet that you're talking about building up true confidence not needing anything from the outside I think I like to think M that people want that they want to be known they're afraid but that they want to be known for who they really are and that you're describing the path to do this right and I will say I'm immensely grateful that you're talking to us this way today about things that you've talked about before but we're hidden in a little differently I like to think very different because what you're talking about is a process it's verbs it's all verbs all action and it's not about success it's more actually about keeping that friction dialed to 10 right and that I no energy drink no supplement people often misunderstand me they think you know like I'm big on people getting sunlight in the morning so they can set their circadian rhythm and get better sleep so they can Etc but then people always think they go straight to the supplements yeah what should I take you know and then of course people think I'm all about supplements and supplements are one piece for me but it's like tiny fraction compared to the the doing the dos and don'ts that's why I didn't want to talk about that today that's why I'm glad we're talking about this this this is it this is it like the brain is the most powerful weapon in the world and it's it's crazy how a kid that wasn't real smart I was forced to go only internal external had to go away the external world had to go away and living so deep inside myself it was me in this brain and figuring out how this thing works and it's so many people are doing exactly that the supplements the this the that and I agree it helps but once you figure out your your brain you become Unstoppable to almost anything yeah you can't beat Death you can't whatever whatever your brain is amazing once you feed it the right conversation the right mental nutrients the right mental supplements the right the right internal dialogue at the right time with the right hit with the right proof of what you've done in the past and you send that right to the right circuit dude you're a beast a beast but once again you just can't read about it you can't sit back and be a theorist you have to be a practitioner and in that practice is where that becomes proof positive what I'm saying is like God like David goggin he's blowing my mind what is this he's not crazy and so many people a lot of people have listened to me the right way and they come back and they're like I'm totally on board I it happened it happened I'm like it'll keep going man if you keep doing it but that is it man there's no sign there's no glory there's no carrot there's no Victory but there is all of it in one I can't explain it real well to people man but what you get the other end is something that you're not you're always found you're never lost anymore doesn't mean the Journey's easy doesn't get any easier but you're always found I love that I just want to hover on that for a sec the same way we hovered on haunted and the stick I think people feel lost I've certainly felt lost at times in my life um many times and yeah there's that thing I don't think there's a neuroscience or a psychology term for it someone will say put it in the comments and say oh yeah that's what so and so said but like you said we're not trying to be theoretical here we're trying to be practical the business of finding yourself and knowing like but it's sort of like I'm safe because I'm in danger and I've been in danger before and I got myself out it Al always seems to come back to verbs again I don't have a language for this you know for once I'm lost for words there's like it's it's about a a process the algorithm and you're and the reason here I'm just kind of trying to make sure I'm understanding things correctly one of the reasons why it must be uncomfortable for you to be who you are publicly is because people want to focus on the running or the swearing and by the way the swearing is is welcome I'll tell you I came up through Laboratories where all three people I worked for swore a lot but there was one rule I couldn't swear at people so my graduate adviser brilliant woman unfortunately she died early they all died early I'm the common denominator I had that internalized for a long time anyway she said but if you swear at people you're out right but you can swear as much as you want so that's that's the rule I have it's like you can swear as much as you want just don't swear at people if you swear at people better be ready to fight definitely not going to fight you so you can swear at me get away with but the fact of the matter is that it must be frustrating MH that people cuz I know people go oh it's it's all about supplements and Ice baths listen I like supplements I love supplements and Ice baths but that's not the full picture they just a gravitational pull it's the swearing it's the running it's his feet that are all messed up it's the fact that he got a Triton yeah he this seal guy yeah talk about that too right you know and there's a gravitational pull for people and they're missing like the that's like the tip of the iceberg is what I'm realizing I'm realizing that today thanks to the way you're phrasing things because the bigger vessel is all in here and and as you said how do you put that in a book it it's impossible because it's highly individual you do it your way yes and you're saying everyone needs to go figure out how to do it their way for them yes and the thing about being misunderstood is very frustrating more than I can even imagine I I I can't even express how frustrating it is when the cussing and everything comes from a place of of of real I can't explain what I do without it the passion comes out of me it's almost like speaking in tongues because when you put that much work and people go oh yeah there's been this basketball player this football player this dude no no everything everything is work everything and people don't don't believe it so when I speak the and the and the and and and the and is that is what it took for me what it takes for me the anger the passion the the the the jawdropping just it takes that because I'm not that this is how I look at it man what built this guy let's imagine being in the coldest water you can possibly take I always go back to hell week with this I hated the water hated it you're sitting there locked arms and you're in the water all the time and they're bringing you in and out of the water in and out of the water when you have this dialogue in your head and these people are judging me off of a freaking one minute video and you're constantly your whole life when you figured it out 24 I gotta I I just gotta this gota and this is just gonna suck every day is gonna suck and live like that to be better and I put this way I'm in the water the water's going over my head the Pacific Ocean you know it's freezing February cold as been through three hell weeks for you to constantly win win win when this voice over here the real you they saying get the out of here go you're nobody you've always been nobody and it's true people don't hear that that's a true voice that's the real reality of David Goggins at 24 years old it's not a false reality and then you had to create another voice over here that is saying you're better than that other voice and you're in the freezing cold water that both voices don't want to be in but you win and goes from the water to the studying to the running to the losing weight to how you eat to how you function as a man every day of your life you're winning these battles and then I have normal people who only have one voice never created the second voice the winning voice is the second voice they have one voice and that's just I'm a piece of that's all they hear and then they judge people like me who are out here trying to be better it's something that I can never really it's a frustrating thing for me because I know I know the majority of people I know what goes on in brain because I studied the mind more than almost more than you because I wasn't I'm a practitioner so for you to be a piece of and come out of that you don't just come out of it you spend decades studying your mind and the human mind on how it functions in good environments bad environments stressful environments patient environment you studied all because you have to put all this together to create the mind to become successful so I had to it like God blessed me with this brain I had a Crea a mind and so in doing so I figured out every piece of human being in the world because that's what I was going off of for myself so I know why you go on Instagram I know why you because you just have the time you have the time because you don't want to put that time into bettering oneself so I know why I'm misunderstood I'm misunderstood by people who have plenty of time on their hands to misunderstand me because they are exactly where I once was which is a lowlife lazy piece of and it's the harsh reality of people who troll you who go after you they have nothing better to do with your lives it's not some after school special it's the truth by once was that way I know where it all comes from that's why it's frustrating to me now because I'm not so frustrated at the fact that I'm being trolled unforunately about the fact that you don't have the courage the courage to try to be somebody better than which you're not and that's the frustrating part it's interesting because earlier we were talking about relationships and you said in a very candid way and I really appreciate you sharing that that you make sure that the people close to you your family has everything they need right and that they also understand that you're going to take what you need to continue to build you right period period in some ways it seems you've also included the general public in that family you're saying listen I'm going to give you what you need I'm G to give you as much of myself as I can except I'm going to stop right at the line that's right that if I were to cross it is going to prevent me from continuing to build myself and by the way this relationship only exists because I don't cross that line that's right and I think as much as there are detractors out there or people that cry right I mean it's pretty whatever they're doing is pretty feeble in my mind I mean it's like cap gun fire you know if if that very few you know so many of us men and women old and young hear something and feel something in your message well like yeah like it seems kind of crazy gosh like doesn't he ever just relax you know what about his sleep you know look at his feet he's going to he's going to injure himself I've heard listen I'll be very direct I got friends who were in the teams who just go yeah what's he going to do when he can't run and I know the answer is keep running that's right right but it's more comfortable for people MH even high Achievers especially High Achievers to believe that if you took one thing away that it would all go away it's absolutely clear that's not the case with you I'm 100% convinced I just know that because what we're talking about this do many times I haven't been able to run two heart surgeries multiple knee surgeries and after every knee surgery they say you're not going to run again and I'm fine with that there's no running up here bro none this was what it was all about that's what theyve lost if you can't run give a it was never about running why do you think I run it's the worst thing I I hate doing it more than anything hence the willpower right your an mid singulate cortex would would start to regress if you loved running think about it every day I wake up I don't just run a mile two miles it's the one thing I hate the most to do and I do it like I love it 250 60 7 300 mile runs at one time no sleep and every step when I get to think about this I get to the start line cussing at Jennifer why the am I here I hate this after 7 some hours of running every question I ever had is answered every question I had is answered I cap success I don't people go what do you mean you cap success for me to be who I am so when I go smoke jump I'm smoke jump three to four months out of the Year sometimes five could you just for those that aren't uh educated about uh just like give us a brief description of what smoke jumping entails so basically you you jump into fires not into them but Jump by fires that people can't get to so out of planes and helicopters right out of planes parachute it's all parachuting so you parachute out of airplanes and then you fight the fire you and sometimes four other guys or maybe eight other guys guys and gals and you're putting this fire out so I lose millions of dollars every summer to do this it blows people's minds why the hell are you doing this and you're breathing s I'm breathing s knees are jacked up H hitting the ground hurting whatever talking to normal people They never get it so I don't even explain it to them but this is why this why I call Cap success I'm talking financial success for me to continue having that willpower the second I just become a speaking monkey and Trav around and speaking gigs 12 months out of the year put camps on do this put on lectures get supplement lines and do this and write more books and I've ruined the exact thing I worked on my entire life and while I didn't know it until today but something always told me this is a very very very perishable skill this this willpower that you have cuz I do have a willpower that I have never seen in anybody my life is a haunting force that just keeps me going and I know that that is my strength if you have that so that's worth every dime I've ever made in my life is the fact that I can look at man in the eye finally and have a real conversation without going like this because I'm lying or I'm a piece of or I know who you know how a person in so many people do this they're talking to you on who they want to be they're lying to you and they walk away I've done that so many times you walk away like God man why can't just tell them the truth how the hell can I just tell him the truth you know how good it feels for me now to look at you in your eye and every man and man I see because women won't get this women will not get this man to man that man you look in another man in the eye and you know that everything you're saying is real and it comes from a real working Place something that you earned it's the best feel in the world you can say that actually happened like I know with certainty what I'm saying actually happened actually happened who I am and who I say I am I am no more lies no more skirting the truth no more and that is worth every dime I've ever made in my life and I is I swear to God on that every dime I've ever made in my life building who I built so I cap success because I know that if I ever go 12 months out of the year and don't put several every day I'm going at it but several months out of the year I go right back to Ground Zero which means I'm just David goggin no Goggins no carry boats logs it's just pick up that palasi and dig hey get that pump walk down a mile put in the water mosquitoes beating you're just David goggin you're nobody because that's where my growth is that's where my willpower comes from and that's where it stays that's why I talk to you now and then can talk like this dude people don't talk this kind of passion because it ain't there it ain't there they're they're regurgitating some from 30 years ago I'm regurgitating from an hour ago hour ago come on man it's just be real and I can't be on these podcasts I can't talk to anybody without being real I'll go away I'll go away because I I can't give you what I want to give you you said perishable skill I think that's another word set of words I want to highlight because skill implies behavior and when we were just talking a second ago about the Deep true Bedrock sense of confidence that comes from looking someone in the eye and telling somebody something that you absolutely know it's true because it happened you're talking about actions not talking about perceptions you're not talking about what you believe happened you know it happened and there's something really concrete about actions I mean that's what's so interesting is we're talking about the mind but actions are the manifestation of the mind and I and the stuff that just stays in here people die with that it doesn't go anywhere I I long ago somebody said you know I forget what the context was it was a neuroscientist he said you know most emotions like they're just emotions they're just in there like you don't have to do anything with them and I think certain emotions you want to do something with right but I think people forget this they feel miserable like they're going to dissolve into puddle of their own tears no one ever died from an emotion right but they feel like they overwhelm us as if it's a tital wave it's going to pull us under and drown us it's so interesting to me because I think what people listen you have a gravitational pole people can feel the energy I think yes you're either completely badly or partially understood there's only one guy on the planet that truly understands you I think there's one woman Jennifer who probably understands you as much as anyone's going to and then the rest of us are kind of grasping trying to figure it out right but you're saying go inward MH so first go Inward and then it's actions Inward and actions now the inward piece is something I'd like to just spend a little bit of time on because there couple characters from history people that were in concentration camps Nelson Mandela I mean I'm not sure he had Instagram in there I'm pretty sure he didn't right and I don't think there was anyone coaching him on like hey you're going to get out someday and actually you're going to lead an entire country I'm pretty sure that's not how it worked he had to find it here he had to find it between his ears right and there are other examples but that's an important one so the process of going inward does it for you and here I will ask for suggestions cuz I think people want there are those of us who want to build this skill right wall yourself off phone off yep for big portions of the day perhaps MH texting off the requests the this the that anyone that knows you knows that I we've communicated a few texts but most of it comes through a filter she's great she knows you you know and she knows how to protect your time and that hurts people's feelings people get mad about hey God bless God bless you Jennifer you know cutting oneself off when you're in there you say it's just you and the voices that come up are not pleasant and then at some point it converts to action okay how much what is the process of picking the action that's the piece that I feel like we there's like a a bridge to build here if you can if you would so the action mean like like like what's next yeah so what like when you go go to sleep at night when that happens you know what you're going to do the next day it's pre-planned yes okay yes it's it's always the same thing you're not building it on the Fly no nothing's on the Fly nothing so how it works internally for me is I'm I put it exactly how it is I'm an artist and every day I'm put I'm I'm painting mon Lisa every day and but it's a different one it's not the same painting so every day I wake up you though I do the same thing it takes a different way to get there so every day in my mind I'm going through my mind I'm just like and a good painter will not just paint he needs to create and you can't create with phones and everything going around you so you gotta block yourself off you only do two podcast in the year you block yourself off and you're and you're painting this thing inside and you're going through all these different colors of paint and everything else and you can only figure out the right painting if you spend the correct amount of time in your brain so every single day I'm literally going with my mind and I'm painting I'm creating this this masterpiece and the Masterpiece is always myself and but to do that you cannot have any distractions because if you're talking to an artist and he's trying to to think about the next painting he he can't it's impossible to listen to you and listen to what your mind and body are telling you we must do people don't do enough of they don't do any of it you're they don't have passion they they lack passion Drive determination because you haven't spent time with yourself your mind will tell you what is next but you haven't spent the time to go all right let me just figure this this out you're looking for let me Google this and let me Google that and let me you're not going to find it there because there's billions of people in this world and they're all supposed to be individuals but we have a packed mentality that's why you're so lost why am I so unique I'm being exactly what the I supposed to be I ain't f and when I did follow I was like everybody else the second I said okay man hang on dude you don't like this you don't like this you don't like this who are you David goggin who are you supposed to be miraculously all these things just I I couldn't even the the list of I had to do just Wham like okay wow once you sit down with yourself and say okay I don't want to be like Michael Jordan or Jim Brown both put on my birthday so I I looked at their birthday like oh my maybe can be one I can't I'm going to be David gogin and that looks like this it just came everything flooded so every single day of my life there's a different thing that comes up that I have to do but no one knows what to do because everybody else is following steps like the Republican and Democratic parties I'm not political neither am I at all for this reason Republicans are going to vote Republican Democrats are going to vote Democrat you're not even a human being bro no way all you agree with all the same and I know I don't so once you figure out yourself and who you are all the answers come so every night a different painting is being painted and this beautiful painting for myself I'm like okay that's that's it it may look the same to most but the end result is very different that's why my l i if you look at what I've done in 49 years it's more than most people ever do in their life because they were a race car driver that's what they did they drove a car it's great I was all kind of because that's exactly what the painting was saying to do what the mind was saying to do when saying this driver a cars to them that race car driver know what the to do he he re ties from being a race car driver and they're lost how how are you still I don't get it dude you're never going to fill your list but you never found your list because it never was presented in front of you because your head was cluttered with because you never just stopped for lots of minutes lots of years and just said all right it's me and you let it go and it just bam it's right there it's right there I'm not a psychologist as I mentioned before but I'm going to venture a hypothesis here I think that you've mastered the process of internal dialogue but when I say dialogue I think most people think oh the the inner voice the the the chatter but that's just one half of a dialogue a dialogue is a two-way street so I completely agree because I know from experience that when we go inward oftentimes we hear things if we're really honest with ourselves it's like I I don't want to think about that or that no and then we start looking outward or we start trying to shift our attention and distract and there are a million reasons that are handed to us excuses and seemingly good justifications to be able to do that but dialogue is a two-way Street and it hit me while you were just saying what you were saying I was paying very close attention and I realized David gogin is talking about the voice that comes up including the terrible stuff that no one wants to hear about themselves from themselves but then he's also got the dialogue down where he knows the counter voice right he goes yeah you're right and so I'm going to do this or maybe no remember this you're in a dialogue a two-way dialogue in there not a one-way chatter dialogue there are books written by famous psychologists about chatter trying to shift your internal narrative you're like bring the internal the internal narrative that's what going inward is about but it's not one voice again there's a hypothesis I'm not claiming to be all knowing Lord knows I'm not all knowing okay but you've mastered the dialogue and if there three voices strong medium and weak in there you're you're like let's all come to the table so you've got a a a Symphony of voices in there that are all you that you know to be you right and you know how to have those convers you're not afraid to be in those conversations and then you know which what the outcome of that committee decision is and you put it into real world action and the world only sees the action that's it and only you can know your internal dialogue and only I can know my internal dialogue and the only way to quote unquote know it is to spend a hell of a lot of time there that's right okay a life time got it a lifetime like think about it for me to be sitting here in front of you you're not going to call 300 PB Eco laab guy to come sit here you might I don't know maybe probably not probably not think about this what we teach people is kind kindness to yourself do you think if I taught myself kindness and I agree with it God people so many people take me out of context it's ridiculous take it however the you want to take it when I was 300 lb where you think that conversation would have got me if I spoke kindness to myself I tell you where it gets me right back to 7-Eleven another box of mini chocolate donuts and the chocolate milkshake that's the one voice that's the one voice that most of us have that you're talking about if you don't have a conversation in there the other voice that you create that says okay how does this look looks very ugly that kind conversation for me went away a long time ago which is why the dialogue is now which you see a lot of action because most people have inaction because there's one person talking and that one person's always lean you down the same path the path that makes you feel very comfortable and happy with yourself the second you create the other voice there's conflict there's battles there's Wars there's defeat one thing I learned I taught myself this and people go I don't understand what you're saying I'm G try to break it down real quick I didn't teach myself Victory first I taught myself failure I taught myself how to fail and people that's so depressing is it when you're 300 pounds and you can't read and write and you're up how many times you're going to fail on that process so if you don't know how to fail there is no Victory I never talked about winning because I knew the path to winning was it be years of failing first so I taught myself how to fail properly no one teaches you how to fail but if you're going out for insurmountable odds that make absolutely no sense a black kid that can't swim 300 pound will be a Navy SEAL okay you better teach yourself how to fail first because if you sit in failure for too long you will never come out of it so the first part of My Success was learning how to fail properly and then eventually I started getting a few victories but that's what people don't get when you have buried yourself in such a deep hole you better first talk about the failures you're going to have first and that's when that other voice comes up it tells you we got to do something but it also tells you boy I'm not gonna lie to you Goggins you're in for a climb bro you're gonna get your ass handed to you made fun of the outside noise the inside noise both voices are going to be telling you to go yourself you are in for hell bro I am so brother leers fail so this is what you mean when you say that whatever anyone says it's insignificant insignificant as right it's the cap gun fire because it's just like it because the voice in your own head is is far worse and I should say sorry one of the voices in your head yes yeah I'm being very like detailed almost surgical about that because I think this thing about inner dialogue we think is one voice yes you're making it clear it's many voices it is and the thing about it is you you you have to be really and sometimes all the voices are telling you the wrong man but through Years Years not a podcast or listening to a book or reading a book years of sacrifice of suffering of diligent pinpoint work on what you want to do for yourself not like oh let me just do a bunch of let me I want to be in every task possible no pinpoint what I want to do with my life what happens is you have all these voices that are telling you you're up and this is could to be hard but for some reason you put so much practice into you that you can ignore every one of them that are telling you you're not going to make it and still be able to make it because you have put the practice in that you know this is the process it's such a daunting task that all the voices are saying no but you still have the conviction that I know I can do this and that's what it took for me to get here 20 30 years ago I had this 35 or whatever it was 3 to 25 years ago pipe dream and ever since then every voice was like you're a nut but when you put that practice and every day you lace them up and I don't mean run it's just a metaphor for life when you lace them up every day pretty soon you win pretty soon you'll win you have the courage and the heart and the dedication and the mindset about everybody can go themselves I know what I know I've listened to myself enough to know I know what I know none of you can hear what I'm hearing and that's what people don't do enough of they don't listen to their Journey they listen to everybody else is before you know it I'm crazy but if I'm so crazy why am I so successful how that happen I'm so misguided and Mis and up and don't listen to him why am I the only one to do a whole bunch of why am I troll Blazer why how is that possible how can you be up and also self-made the same no no obviously you're not looking at the truth in front of you the truth in front of you is it sucks it's painful it's mind numbing and that is the truth and that's why a lot of people don't like listening to me because this is what it takes creating another voice and sometimes going at it alone all the time going at it alone because no one's going to believe in you and that's that what I'm about to say is not conjecture and I can say that with confidence because I did a four episode guest series with a a brilliant psychiatrist a guy named Paul KY from Trenton he's a Stanford Harvard trained guy he's also got a lot of Street in him he's had his own hardship real hardship he's brilliant and he said something that I'll never forget which is you know we think that the the forbrain the part of our brain that creates strategy Etc is the supercomputer he said no no no no no no it's like the supercomputer of the brain is the is the unconscious mind it's the part of our mind that's controlling most everything and most people unfortunately don't do the work to understand how their unconscious is controlling them and that's this scary thing this idea like your mind is controlling you you know and I'm not going to get into the Free Will debate I believe in at least some will I believe what you're describing and this internal dialogue I think you have access to your unconscious mind you by listening to the dialogue going inward we know this is true in sleep in dreams in meditation and just by shutting out everything else shutting out all the external noise which is filled with things that pull us to noise makes it sound bad but it's it's the gravitational pull of all the things that just allow us to distract ourselves without knowing that you know the ice cream the have a cookie the merry Christmas the unconscious mind this huge piece of the iceberg underneath that Paul calls the the supercomputer he's saying that with knowledge as a neurobiologist psychiatrist psychologist he really knows that's the piece that if one does real introspection he calls it the cupboards you got to look in the cupboards and it's often really scary what you find in there and most people are just like I don't even want to know the cupboards are there but you're pulling all the cupboard doors is open and then you're and I'm you're extremely deliberate with what gets put into action you're not just going oh like I'm pissed so I'm gonna act pissed or I'm you know tired so I'm gonna act tired it's you're picking very carefully what to do and that's a process that I'm guessing came to you does it come to you as a okay it makes sense why running makes sense it makes sense why smoke jumping makes sense so it seems like a huge portion of your time is spent understanding yourself and making sense to you and so when people don't understand you it's got to be extra frustrating yes because most people don't understand themselves so that we're all running around going like you're this and you're that because most people are just unwilling to look Inward and I'm including myself by the way I mean I've done a fair amount of introspection but I'm inspired today that word inspired but it's true motivated to start going inward further cuz it is scary it's like we don't know what's in those cupboards and it's terrifying yes especially because we don't know and those are the first ones that open up and like he talked about you got to go through those cups I do spring clean every day in those dark cupboards those th those dark cabinets the ones I start with first that's the real me man that's the real me that's why I'm not ashamed I don't hide I used to hide I don't hide anymore he's exactly right I I don't know all the science behind I know what I know that's why I don't listen to anybody anymore I don't listen to I think most people are full of because I know I know the deep dark secrets of those cupboards it's ugly man and every day I'm talking to him every day I'm cleaning them I'm cleaning them and I'm talking to the same demons that came out of those cups as I'm as I'm cleaning them sometimes they go right back in them again it's not easy and this is why most most of us just Why am misunderstood because what comes out of those cabinets that I'm cleaning sometimes they see on Instagram sometimes they'll see in the podcast sometimes they see in this one I turn people off open up your own cabinets and then go talk about it let me see how pretty it looks let me see how pretty you sound let me see how put together your words are I bet you a or a comes out because for you to go back in there again to clean the same cabin that the demon came out of take some big balls bro to do it every day of your life to go back in there and spring clean every day not once a year once every decade every day you know it gets dusty and every day you don't start with the with the victories you don't go oh this is nice look at my look at my I love me while let me clean up this little Dusty no I go right for the things that are GNA keep me buried I go right there first because if I don't clean those out first the day doesn't start so what he's saying to me is truth and like I told you many times today I could never figure out how to explain this to people because I'm not neuron nothing I'm just a guy that said okay we got to start in the dungeon and we got to stay here for the rest of our lives for you to become successful the dungeon is a place that has to be clean and it's the scariest place to be that's why I'm misunderstood because I'm speaking from the dungeon that's why I am successful because I go there every damn day and that is the truth what he says it's the exact truth those cabinets are Dusty dirty and scary as broken glass dark spiders cobwebs but most of all your biggest fears the biggest things that put you in the up place you are today are in there that's why we all like to keep them shut even like to lock them up act like they never happen that's why you never grow you never improve you never have real conversations like we're having right now never never oh no no no no no no let's not no no no let's not go there I talk to so many people who tell me that let's talk about this cuz they'll tell me but they can only say it once and they'll say it in passing they won't get deep in the weeds with it like you can't just clean it you gotta spitshine that you got to relive it every detail of it you can't like oh yeah yeah my dad beat me and you know you know it is what it is hey is what it is it's it's killing you it's taking over your whole life but that's the convers yeah my dad I'm fine now though I'm good okay all right no you ain't you ain't fine you ain't fine this is this is real talk people don't to have that so your boy's right 100% right scary as it's scary as but makes you who you're supposed to be and that's the test we forget we we think we're supposed to breathe air and have kids and pay the bills and every what what's this life about that make no sense being tested my friend tests come when you have not studied tests come when you think that you're in the great place that's that's the test the test is every day of your life and most of us fail because because we don't know why we're here because we don't go inward to say oh you gave me a lot of to fix man and this test sucks but then you start David goggin I don't think I could add to that I know I can't thank you for sharing what you shared today I mean as much as your process or anyone's process can't be completely understood from the outside you gave us a real window into this thing this process that you was as you said God put it on you I believe in God too people can believe what they want but I somehow your your life God gave you these challenges early on and then there was a point where you went internal mhm and like you said you developed a skill but it's a perishable skill yep and you clearly live in the process of opening those cupboards reopening those coverboards trying to spit shine those cupboards understanding that they're never ever really done but that you can gain ground on them that you can win day after day after day and you really shared a lot of concrete things that I think I know know people are going to be able to apply if they choose right and I agree with you I think most people will be like whoa that was a lot yep it's heavy I think I want to just kind of bake myself in Netflix and check mix yep instead but there's also the reality that there are men and women boys and girls who hear that and go okay and start cracking the the cupboards open right and I I just know that you know for myself I'm extremely grateful that you're willing to put it all out there you're so brutally honest so brutally authentic that word authenticity gets thrown around so much and I can tell you that for me and for everybody else like that's what really what resonates so whether or not you want to whether or not it's the purpose behind it or not you're lighting the path so thank you respect thank you thanks for having me thank you for joining me for today's discussion with David Goggins to learn more about David and to find links to his two fantastic books can't hurt me and never finished please see the show note captions if you're learning from and or enjoying this podcast please subscribe to our YouTube channel that's a terrific zero cost way to support us in addition please subscribe to the podcast on both Spotify and apple and on both Spotify and apple you can leave us up to a five-star review please also check out the sponsors mentioned at the beginning and throughout today's episode that's the best way to support this podcast if you have questions or comments about the hubman Lab podcast or if you have suggestions about guests or topics that you'd like me to cover please put those in the comment section on YouTube I do read all the comments not on today's episode but on many previous episodes of The hubman Lab podcast we discuss supplements while supplements aren't necessary for everybody many people derive tremendous benefit from them for things like improving sleep for hormone support and for Focus if you'd like to learn more about the supplements discussed on the huberman Lab podcast please go to Liv momentus spelled o us so that's Liv mous.com huberman if you're not already following me on social media I am huberman lab on all social media platforms so that's Instagram Twitter threads X LinkedIn and Facebook and on all those platforms I discuss 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your interest in science [Music]