How to Become a Physician Assistant Through the Military | IPAP Explained

Okay. Give it like a second here. Can you hear me pretty well? >> Yeah, I can't hear. >> You can't hear like the laundry machine in the background. >> Not that. >> Just making sure. Uh and then we're going to in case somebody has a comment, we're going to put that right here on the stage and it's going to be perfect medium. Okay. So, I think we're streaming. I'm just sorry. I'm just trying to figure this whole thing out here because I'm not used to it. >> Comments definitely. >> And I think that's it. Yeah, we're live. I guess we're going. Okay, cool. So, I guess we're going to get started. So, how do I say your name? It's Ruene. >> Rolene. Yes. >> Ruene. And what is your background? >> So, I am an LPN in the army. I joined since 2018. I joined as a logistics specialist and I reclassed to the Army LPN in 2021. And ever since that I worked at um Madigan Army um medical center here in Fort Lewis, Washington State as a LPN on the floor. And earlier this year, I transitioned to the LPN schoolhouse as an instructor and also put in my iPad packet earlier this year. And I was selected to go to IPAP to become an Army PA next August. class will start next August. >> Very cool. So, you're you went into the army in 2018, so going on eight years now. >> Eight years. Yeah. >> And you went in as a logistics specialist. >> And so then you kind of made the switch to LPN three years later. Were you always interested in healthcare or why did you make >> I always Yeah, I've always has been uh have been interested in health care but when I first graduated I was international students in the United States. I came from China. Uh when I graduated college I didn't have my citizenship to do a lot of things. So at the time army had this program where they allow international students or certain workers with uh work visas to join to get their citizenship. That's when I joined. They didn't have any medical a lot of medical uh job open when I joined. So I just joined at the you know most convenient uh the MOS that could ship me as soon as possible. That's why I first joined as um logistic specialist. But when my first contract was about to end, I got the opportunity to switch. >> Yeah. So, you always wanted to do healthcare. You just kind of wanted to get in the army as soon as possible. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Why were you always interested in healthcare? >> Um, my dad uh is a physician in China and my mom um worked for the health uh department. So, I've always kind of interested in the medicine and I majored in biology in college. Um, I wanted to do nursing when I was in college, but I didn't um have the funds to go. You know how expensive you can get here in the States. >> So, I heard uh one of my school um mates actually joined army to become an RN and that's what I wanted to do originally. >> Mhm. And you said college >> as in uh you went to college in China. >> I went to college here >> in the states. >> Okay. >> But for my m I wanted to do originally I wanted to do like a adsn or like a direct entry MSN as RN here but I just couldn't afford it. Mhm. >> And then I joined the army to get my citizenship to continue my um education in healthcare. >> Okay. So you you're from China. You went to college here in the United States with a biology major. >> Thinking maybe nursing or maybe medicine >> and then you come to the end of your college career. You have your biology degree but you don't really know what you can do, how you can afford school. >> So you enlist in the army. Yes. >> Then you kind of use the army to kind of step into an LPN role and now finally the PA role. >> Yeah. >> Excellent. I had a very similar trajectory. Also graduated with biology degree. Uh graduated with a poor GPA and then realized like there was kind of not many options and so I joined the Navy and then through the GI Bill actually as a civilian I finally got the PA degree. Uh so different ways to go about it. Uh why did you decide to go interervice instead of just getting out and using the GI Bill? >> Um I decided um I didn't want to get out because I don't want this income to stop. I know I can use GI Bill to cover all my um tuition, book stipens, and BAH. That's the housing allowance. But at the meantime, I want to still be able to support my family >> and then inter service. That way, I don't have to break my active duty time. I can still make the full paycheck and go to school full-time. >> So, that's actually something I wanted to get into. The benefits of the what is it? IPAP interervice physician assistant program. Is it that simple? >> Yeah. >> Okay. That that's an army acronym that actually makes a lot of sense. Uh there's so many acronyms. So the benefits are you just said you basically keep your rank and you get paid while you're a student, but your full-time job is to be a student. >> Actually, they recently this year they just changed their commission uh commissioning process before you go as your rank and then you commission after you complete your program. But now we're going in as second lieutenant. So we will commission first and then finish the program. >> So you commission while you're a PA student? >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> They just changed it this year. So we'll be the first class to uh have that change. >> So you get a pretty serious pay bump actually. Usually unless you go in as like an seven or something. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Now, I wonder how that works because I mean, obviously, they're assuming you're going to graduate, but what if you don't or you don't pass the pants? Do you lose your commission? >> I have no idea. I think they might just use you as another branch in an officer in another branch like medical service. That That's what I'm speculating, but I haven't heard anything about that right now. >> Yeah, that's just interesting. I wonder why they chose to do that. If you find out, definitely let me know. >> Yeah. Yeah, of course. >> But so that's cool. So you're basically as a PA student for two years or I think it's 28 months for IPAP. >> True. I have. Yeah. >> Yeah. So you're paid full-time duty as a second lieutenant in the army. It's pretty decent pay. Plus, you get all of your housing covered. Housing allowance. You get your >> subsistence allowance. So you get money for food basically. >> Uh all of your books, I'm assuming covered. all of the school supplies, right? And then what is the obligation once you graduate? >> So obligation will be four years serving as PA in your branch. >> So not two years >> 50 something. Yeah. Four years obligation. >> Yeah. That's different I think than there's other programs where you apply right out of school. like you get into school and they'll pay for it, but I think the obligation is as long as your school, not an entire four years. >> Have you looked at other programs? >> Uh, I looked at the there's another program is called EMDP2 that's enlisted to medicine to doctor. I look into that originally, but I decided that wasn't for me. [clears throat] >> What does that program entail? So that's only for enlisted individuals wanted to become MD or DO. They send you to basically do premed for two years and you will take your MCAT and apply for medical school and then start from there. >> So they basically pay you to go to a postback. >> So do you already have to have a bachelor's probably for that? >> Yeah. Mhm. >> Yeah. And then same with IPAP. I'm assuming you have to have a bachelor's so you can get the master's degree. >> Um, actually for IPAP, you don't need to have a bachelor's prior to uh applying. You just need to have 60 semester hours >> and the pre- requests that the program needs. >> So, do you have to complete a bachelor's before you begin the PA program? >> No. >> What? How's that even possible? um just for the uh military PA program. That's the big difference. >> That makes so little sense to me. So you can have like all the prerequisites, 60 credits of undergraduate, let's say, but you don't have a bachelor's, but then you go into a master's program having never had a bachelor's. So how the IPAP works is the first year and a half for um is the dactic year basically once you graduate phase one you get a bachelor's degree in um sc uh medical science and then once you graduate phase two that's where they uh give you the master's degree in PA. >> Wow. So, you could be in, let's say you're not even in the army. Let's just say just out of curiosity, let's say you're someone who wants to be a PA in the cheapest way possible. You have, you know, you've taken your prerequisites only. You have 60 credits. You don't even have a bachelor's degree. >> You could join the army and then go do this program, get like kind of an honorary bachelor's almost, and then complete your PA program >> after only taking 60 credits. >> Yeah. I had not ever thought of that possibility. Cool. So, okay. So, let's say just crazy idea. Let's say somebody wants to do this. They know they want to be a PA. They don't have any money >> and they have their prerequisites, 60 credits knocked out, let's say at a community college. They have their PA school prerequisites. They can enlist in the army or even in the reserves and then they can apply for this IPAT program and then have their bachelor's and their physician assistant degree completely paid for and while they're going to school. >> I think that's very doable. >> Wow. How competitive? >> Um go ahead. So I want to say the bachelor degree part even though it's not a requirement but I want to say a lot of applicants have a bachelor's already because not only enlisted apply for uh IPAB in this year a lot of officers also got selected so they already have either a bachelor or higher degree and a lot of the enlisted who get selected they also have bachelors it definitely will help you with your application um and also I will say even though signing up for reserve and then go through that IPAP route is doable but um reserve even though it's less how do I put it less people in the reserve so it might be less seats for the reserve component it might be more competitive >> in in a way. >> Do you know if they have like a certain number of seats for active versus reserves? Um, I can look it up. I know for there I'm not sure, but each class we have about 60 people in a class a year. There's three classes. I will say 180 in total, but that's every branch. Army, Air Force, Navy. >> I think Army have have the most seats. >> But then active duty has the most seats. And then you will go down to reserves and active and national guard so and so forth. >> Oh, sure. Okay. So, you'd be better off just enlisting and then, you know, doing the program. Uh, how competitive is it? Let's say you are active duty. Let's say you do have a bachelor's degree. I mean, is it still very very competitive? >> I don't think they have a um like a acceptance rate. I would almost want to say I saw somewhere somebody said it's 30% but I'm not 100% sure but um also it's highly depend uh depending on your your background right because I have a medical background and then as LPN and I have some good uh letters of recommendation I think I nailed my letter of intent and also my SAT I think their average SAT score is a 1260. We don't use G uh GRE IPAP uh use SAT scores. So I got a 1330. I think that's well above average. And we they also take PA CAT. My PA CAT was 542. So I think that's also pretty high compared to higher. >> Mhm. Yeah. Oh, okay. So, you have to take the SAT and the PAT. They do require the PAT. >> Yes. >> Oh, that changes things because that's a tough test to study for. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> I think they just started take they just started using PAT as well. >> Uhhuh. Tell me a little bit about the PAT because I've never taken it. I'm never going to take it obviously. Uh it came about after I became a PA, but tell me about the PAT. To be honest, it's really hard. A lot of information I doubt PAS will actual PAS will know the answer, but I think it is designed that way to, you know, to make it super hard. Um, but honestly, if the applicants study well um in their prerequisites and they use the material provided by the uh exam master, I think they will do pretty good. Even though during the test I felt I didn't know anything but after the score wasn't too bad. >> You said exam. >> So it's a lot of >> exam master is the is where you register for the exam. >> Uhhuh. >> But you can take it at any venue. I think I took it on post in a like a test center. It was a four or five hour test. It was super long and it's a lot of am a lot of chemistry basic science stuff like that. >> How long did you take to study? >> So a few months I watched all the modules cuz when you pay for the exam it comes with some free videos and uh QBank practice exams. So, I watched almost all of the videos and did a couple times of the um exam uh practice exams. So, I will say I didn't spend that much time on the PA cap. I just spend more time on my SAT. But I think if you have a solid foundation from your prerequisite classes, you will do decent in PAD. So when you sign up for the PAT, they give you kind of like lecture videos with the topics and they give you practice problems. >> Yep. >> And so you said going through all of the videos and then doing the problems a couple of times that was enough for you to score well on the PAT? >> Yes. For me personally, yes. >> Excellent. And then for the GRE, I haven't studied for the GRE since high school. It's been 20 years. Uh, how did you study for the GRE? >> You mean the SAT? >> SAT, sorry. >> Yes, >> I used I you uh I didn't take G I took Jerry a long time ago. >> Um SAT, honestly, I used the free uh videos on Khan Academy. Mhm. >> And and when I signed up for SAT on College Board, I purchased the blue book that they have the uh it's for like 30 bucks. You get a book with questions. I did the book and that was pretty pretty sufficient. Uh blue book digital. Let me see here. Oh, that's what you meant by the blue book. Mhm. >> Just gonna share my screen just for a second. This one right here. So, this >> is this what you used? >> I can't see your screen. >> Sorry, I need to add it right here. So, this is what you use for the >> SAT. Yep. >> Tool kit. Okay. And this is all you use. Just there are free videos on Khan Academy. >> Yep. And Khan Academy. And there's a couple YouTube channels that teach you how to do math. I just go on YouTube and type SAT math and we will have some free videos as well. >> Yeah. And you ended up getting a 1330 between the two sections. >> And then you got a 540 on the PAT by watching all their videos >> and going through their practice problems. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> People always ask like how do you get a good score? you go through all the material. >> Yeah, right. >> It's kind of nothing else to do. >> Okay. >> So, IPAP. So, it's basically you have to be an enlisted service member, preferably on active duty, preferably with a bachelor's degree or at least close to it. All of your prerequisites for PA school, the PA CAT, the SAT, and then recommendation letters. Mhm. >> Okay. So, it would certainly help to already be like a army medic, an LPN like you, RN, like something already in the medical field. >> You will be beneficial, but they I think they also take in consideration of the whole person >> picture because a lot of selectes are not uh from a medical background. I think they really look at your whole military background as a whole picture. Does that make sense? >> Very much so. >> I think they value your uh your awards, your leadership style, your growth as well. >> Do you know anyone else who's gotten into it who is not, you know, with a medical background? >> A lot. I looked at the list. A lot of them are not medical >> really >> because on the list they publish, they will have everybody's job um title on there. Um a lot of people are not from any medical back. We have a lot of uh special force people. We have logistic people. We have um you know other type of people. >> Yeah, special forces make sense because they do have >> some medical training and I'm sure some very high level application in the field. >> Uh so they're definitely not like totally not medical. Uh >> Mhm. >> Yeah. That's just surprising because you know with a traditional PA program you have to have a a decent amount of medical experience, medical hours, patient care hours, a bachelor's degree for sure, >> good grades, >> all of that. So it sounds like >> you you still need to shadow a PA to apply for iPad. So the minimum hour they just changed it is 40 hours shadowing. But when I applied, I have over almost 200 hours of shadowing just outside of work. I went into a clinic and shadowed the uh army PAS. [snorts] >> Mhm. >> So I think they also value your volunteer experiences. I volunteered at um flu drives for two years. I think that also made it a little better. I think if people uh if someone is not from a medical background, they will see what type of volunteer work, how dedicated are you, you know, to become a medical provider. They will look at your all aspect. >> So you would recommend one obviously the standardized testing, you have to have your prerequisites, volunteering is looked upon >> uh favorably. What about do they actually have a requirement or a preference for hands-on patient care experience? Even if you're not doing that for a job, >> I know civilian PA schools, you need the PCE hours. >> Yeah. >> But not necessarily in the army because they understand for active military people. If you're infantry, it's not likely you can get a second job as a EMT somewhere to get that hands-on. Yeah. Did you? >> Hm. >> Well, yeah, I was really need to. >> Yeah, I was an uh nurse, staff nurse on the floor for three years. So, I had enough hands-on. I will say that's the biggest difference between IPAP and civilian PA program is it's really tailored to um the active military service where they understand not everyone has the opportunity to have that hands-on experience. So well they will basically look at all of your uh record from all of your steps in your military career to decide if you are a good candidate. >> Uh so you said you looked at the list of like this year who got into the IPAP program from the army. >> Did you notice that most of them were like relatively high ranking E5? Were there some younger ones? >> Not necessarily. I see all the way from specialist to lieutenant colonel. There was one lieutenant colonel >> and there's some specialists. The lowest is specialist that got in the IPAB and I see just all people from all walks of their military career. >> The specialist could make sense. And specialist is an E3, I think. Is that right? >> E4. >> E4. Mhm. >> God, I don't remember my army ranks at all. Private PFC I think is two or three. >> Yeah, PV2 PFC >> I think there isn't there >> corporal and special. Yeah, >> specialist is more for like uh staff and corporal is more for line or how does that work? I know there's a difference. >> So specialist is just the rank like anybody can be specialist. It's automatic from PFC to specialist. But corporal is when they want you to have some NCO responsibility. They promote you to corporal, but you you're necessarily you're not an E5 yet, but you have some of that NCO responsibility. >> Okay. So, got it. Got it. Got it. And then you can't become a sergeant if you're not a corporal first. >> No, you uh I don't. They change all the time. The rules change all the time. >> Yeah, >> I just remember that was confusing because in the Navy we had an E4 is just a third class petty officer. That's it. Like there's not two different kinds. >> Well, yeah. So, that's Army. Uh, okay. So, that's actually pretty that's pretty good. So, E4 was the lowest. For some reason, some '05 decided to go IPAP. That's confusing to me. >> He didn't just want to go Colonel, I guess. Uh, but fair enough. I guess they always wanted to practice medicine and this is their chance. Yep. Mhm. >> And then your obligations four years and then you have a PA degree. You pass the pants like a regular civilian PA. >> Yep. >> And then you're licensed in whatever state. I'm assuming probably Nebraska. >> So Nebraska is the college, but you take your you go to phase one in tax San Antonio, Texas. And phase two, they will send you to all those military hospitals around the US or even overseas. I guess it's where your license is from. I assume either from Texas or wherever you graduate phase two. I'm not sure. >> Sure. Yeah. I just know like federal government and military, they don't care where you're licensed. As long as you have a state license, they could use you anywhere throughout the system. >> So the VA for instance. Uh so that's fine. Do you know what what is life like for an army PA? >> So for army PA um battalion staff PA will be seeing um responsible for the soldiers sick calls. They're at the clinics. So basically uh like the unit's primary care provider I will say and they will also be responsible to train the medics and they will give commander uh training uh provide the training ideas and facilitate with their field exercises and other exercises. I think that's mainly that's um you uh regular army PA duties. So sick call basically like primary care and urgent care almost. >> Yeah. >> Uh on base and then you said you have like some leadership responsibilities as far as >> So you will be you will be training all the medics that work under you >> like the combat medics in your unit and you will also be like a adviser to the commander on medical side of stuff. Mhm. >> As far as like exercises, training or something so that you don't get people hurt, I'm assuming. >> Yeah. And you will also make sure everybody's good on their physicals, right? You have that tracker. You will track people's physicals. You will brief the commander on your units readiness. Just ensure just um the readiness part. So the leader, the commanders know how the percentage of their force is ready to deploy. Sure. [clears throat] And then PAS definitely do deploy overseas. >> Yes. >> On ships. I mean everywhere. >> Mhm. >> Do you know what that schedule looks like? >> It really depends on what type of unit or how often your unit deployed. It's really hard to say. >> Yeah. was thinking, yeah, our army must be quite different because I don't think our PA's or our physician ever deployed. I was in a helicopter squadron and we had a flight doc, but he was always states side. He was always in the clinic, you know, he was doing their flight physicals. >> What's that? >> I guess it really depends on what type of unit and like what they want you to do. you could be doing just based on the unit, you know, staff or you could deploy with rest of the uh troops. >> What are you hoping to do? >> Um I joined the army. I wanted to deploy but I never got the chance. I think this might be in the future I might get opportunity to to deploy at least once in my career. [laughter] >> So you just kind of worked like in the clinic or in the hospital your whole career? Um I think for PAS for at least for army PAs to work in a hospital you have to get specialized. You have to go to more schooling. >> You can either become a specialized in uh emergency uh ED um psych and ortho. I think that's the three type of schooling for army PAs. After like they already have been a unit PA, like a clinic primary care type of PA for a while, you can further your Army PA education to become one of those three. >> They send you to kind of like a residency type of thing. >> Yeah. >> For is it a year? >> I'm not sure. I didn't know that's how that worked because civilian side you usually don't need that. You just kind of get whatever job and whatever specialty. >> Yeah. >> Ortho emergency or otherwise. Uh but that's good. And then I know at least from when I consider doing this uh as an Army PA or an RN or anything like the higher the more senior you get in rank, the more administrative you become and the less you actually work in the clinic. you're meeting bigger and bigger groups, you know, you're responsible for that >> rather than practicing, >> I think. Is that how it works? >> Yes. >> Is there a Is there a flag officer who's a PA? >> What's a flag officer? >> Like a For us it would be an admiral. For you guys it would be a general. Like someone who has their own flag, >> I think so. But they're not treating patients. >> No, >> I don't. No. >> No. They're like leading an entire >> Uhhuh. >> I don't know. Something. Some sort of big medical battalion or something. >> Yeah. Something like that. But I haven't seen one. [snorts] >> There's probably like one. There's probably like one in the entire army. >> Probably. >> Let me see. Just I'm curious now. Is there a flag officer in the military who is a physician assistant? There's probably like literally one billet. And let's see. Uh yes, there is there are in fact two very notable examples. Uh a brigadier general in 2024. He became the first active duty physician assistant to become a general uh 07. At the time he was commanding the medical readiness command Pacific and director of defense health Indo-Pacific and then there was a rear admiral. This one's a Navy guy in the reserves. Sure enough. >> Okay. >> First Navy PA. So there's not many. There's definitely not many. Got it. Interesting. Well, what else uh anything else you feel like people should know about what IPAP is, why you chose to go in that direction, and maybe what people considering it who are either in the army or who are not even in the army yet should think about. >> Um, so if anybody is already in the military and they're considering to do IPA, there's a Facebook group, uh, interervice, um, physician assistant program, IPAP. That's literally the group's name. people in there will answer most all of your questions. And there's also a IPAP recruiting page. Let me uh so if you type in iPad, the first uh link that come up, I don't know how to share my screen, but I can put the link in the chat box. Do >> it right here. Uh one sec. Oh, you just put the link in. Okay. So, can you see this on the screen? >> Yep. >> Perfect. >> So, you can get all of your information from this website >> as far as how to apply, what benefits you have, you know, what they cover. >> Yep. >> Everything good. Oh my goodness. Miler. Thought I was done reading Hilper's mans. So many. Okay, here it is. So prerequisites requirements to apply to IPAP 60 credits of college. Uh 30 can be classes not sure what this means exactly. Uh enlisted must submit their official JST to the University of Nebraska. What's an official JST? Joint services transcript. >> So JST is all of your education you got from the military. >> Mhm. like your job training, your basic training, job training, any type of training you got from the military. >> Okay. And then you have your actual prerequisites. >> Uh, six credit hours of English, humanities, psych, chemistry, anatomy. Only three hours of each of these. Oh, there we go. Three hours of anatomy, three of physiology. So not a whole lot of uh >> no >> not a not a whole lot of prerequisites. Not as many as many programs. No biochemistry, no microbiology. I don't even see organic chemistry. >> Yeah. No, but taking they have a separate list of recommending courses. So if you take some of those recommending courses, you will have you know that um will boost your standing in my opinion. So th those lists you you will see microbiology, OKAM, stuff like that, genetics. Personally, I took more than the minimum courses >> for sure. >> I guess ROC cadets can also apply. >> Okay. So, if you're trying to go through the IPAP, you're either in the army or you're considering doing this and joining the army to go become a a physician assistant, these are the requirements right here. >> Very cool. And then what was that Facebook page you mentioned? >> It's um let me let me pull up It's just called interervice physician assistant program. [snorts] >> Interervice physician assistant program 13,000 numbers. It's literally just this. >> Yes, just that. >> Okay, so that's what it's called. And then so if you have kind of specific questions or you just kind of want to know what it's like being an IPAP student or a REP PA, >> you know, those are definitely >> things you could do. Yeah, I mean it's certainly not for everybody, but with the cost of everything, including school going up, you know, having your entire physician assistant education paid for, you being paid very well while you're in the program, not just tuition and a small housing allowance, but actually like a good salary >> uh while you're a student. I mean, that's very tempting. And what you have to do for that is be an RVPA for four years, >> you know, and that's also not bad. RVA good money. >> Oh, yeah. or Air Force, Navy. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think if I had to pick one, I'd probably say Navy just because you're stationed in more beautiful places. >> If you want easy lifestyle and very nice bases, obviously go Air Force. If you want excitement, go Army or Marines. But Marines is going to be your Navy guys anyway. But yeah, any uh any like parting remarks? Anything else you really want to tell folks because we're going to post this and something that they should really know? >> They should really know is if anybody's in the military right now, um they're considering the PA program, definitely my number one re uh suggestion is don't get in trouble because all of your records are going to get looked at. So, we want to clean clean record. And also I will highly recommend uh any soldiers enlisted or even officer who wanted to do IPAP start uh networking go to your local MTF the military treatment facilities start talking to people start getting on those uh volunteer opportunities like blood drive uh flu uh flu mission stuff like that to build up your resume and also get to know people and you might um know people there who will eventually get you a good letter of recommendation. You never know. >> Shadowing, letter of recommendation, >> 100%. I can't I think anyone who's asked me about like if they should join the military or what they should do is you should only join the military if you have a plan and you're going to stick by that plan. Because it's so easy when you join the military, one to either get in trouble and get sidetracked and then you lose all your benefits, you lose everything that you've enjoyed. or two, you get stuck in the military like pipeline because you're going to be expected to just do your job and to promote and to go lead other people to do your job. That's all they want. If you want to do something a little special, a little extra, a little different like IPAP, you need to be like with that front of mind from day one. Like, yes, I'm going to do my job very well. I'm going to get my PFT scores very high. I'm going to be in great shape. I'm never going to get in trouble. I'm never going to drink or do drugs. I'm going to do everything that's asked of me, but also in my free time, I'm not going to have free time. In my free time, I'm going to be volunteering. I'm going to be shadowing. I'm going to be taking these classes using tuition assistance or whatever. Uh, and I'm going to be ready to drop that package as soon as possible. >> Yeah, for me, I took leave to shadow and finish my packet because I work 12hour shifts on on floor. It was really hard for me to do anything else after work after 12 hours. So, I took a lot of leave to just get my shadows uh shadowing hours and my to write my letters. It It was worth it. >> Absolutely. >> Oh, 100%. It's worth it because then you get to be one just like being a PA student that's making that much money like in school. That is so you're going to be the bougie PA student. You're going to have the nicest laptop that the army's going to buy for you. >> You're going to have like the nicest clothes. You're just going to like not worry about rent or anything when everyone's freaking out about student loans. You're just going to laugh. like it's going to be nice. It's so worth it. >> Yeah. And for any of um junior enlisted personnel who's thinking about anything like either PA or even nursing program, start using your TA right now. Don't let it go waste. I let my TA go wasted for several years before I started knocking out my prerequisite and I ran out of money. So >> Oh, no. Just pay for it yourself. just just a couple classes, not too crazy, but I highly recommend people start taking some classes as early as um as soon as possible. >> Yeah. And something that I used uh I don't know if you could use TA for this. I'm assuming you can, but I'm not sure if you're familiar with Portage Learning. >> Oh, yeah. I' I've heard of that um school. >> Yeah. Anyone here? >> Yeah. I don't think you can use TA for that, but they do give military discount. >> Yeah. And it's uh I mean, I know you could use probably GI Bill for it, but either way, if you're like lacking like one prerequisite or a bunch of prerequisites, literally every prerequisite is on here, including labs. Like, they'll actually send you everything to do your labs uh for a very affordable prices. I mean, not expensive at all, $1,000 or less. So, I highly recommend Portage for your prerequisites if you just need like a couple and you can't get them through TA. Uh, so let me I'm going to end the recording. Uh, but don't leave, but I'm just going to end the recording and say, >> you know, thank you very much for doing this interview. I'm sure a lot of people who are in the military uh or who are considering a way to like become a PA without going into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, like this is definitely a wonderful option. So, thank you for sharing your knowledge. Of course. Thank you for having me. >> 100%. Absolutely.