How She Got Promoted So FAST ... Feels Like Cheating

The path to director product is like a pyramid and very less than 1% people can actually make it and become a director product. Not to mention at the genai director product. However, if you use the right strategy, follow the right career mindset and design, you're able to become a director in less than four years. In today's episode, I had a pleasure to invite Judy Shong. She is a director Jenna product and she made it in less than four years. is also a mom of three kids, super busy, and I'm so excited to have her to share with you guys how you're able to leverage the same strategy, become a director, Gen AI in short amount of time. Make sure to stay in this video where she share with you the secret how to maintain work life balance as a mother of three. Hey guys, this is Dr. Nancy, a direct product feature in Force. I've helped thousands people land their dream PM job offer in fan companies [music] and unicorn startup and continue to get promoted as a product leader. If you're interested in landing a dream product management job offer within 90 days and go to pmacure.io to learn more. In this channel, we'll talk about tech trends and free product management training. Like and subscribe and hit the bell button so that notified every time I post a new video every Tuesday and Friday. [music] If you find today's content insightful, inspiring, make sure to smash like button until turn blue. This is the only way YouTube algorithm will recognize me. Hi Judy, welcome to the product insider podcast. How are you doing? >> Hi Dr. Nancy Lee, I'm doing great and thank you for having me today. >> Julie, it's totally my pleasure and actually I'm so excited to have you on the show for the second time because you actually launched a successful AI product. On top of that, you constantly get promoted to become a director of Genai, which is like holy cow. you actually become a director within four years and every single time want to follow you on LinkedIn every year you'll just get promoted to next level next next level so I cannot wait to have you to talk to us here about your journey to director product especially mother of three I'm a mother of two I feel like very busy already mother of three and then you're doing everything all together and it's still being very young and beautiful and we're still a startup so I I believe lots of women want to learn from you regarding how you do it. Um, that's why I'm glad have you come to join our podcast second time. And everybody, Judy, you know, last episode with Judy, she dive deeper regarding her AI product style pilots that she launched. You can watch the episode right there. That's a little bit more technical. And this episode focus more regarding leadership and how she was able to become a director, all the work life balance, all the juices behind how we're all able to grow our product management career in this age of AI. And so, Judy, let's do this. ex beyond my excitement. Can you quickly introduce yourself to the audience? What's your background? What's your journey to director of Genai product? >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Dr. Nancy Lee. So my name is Judy. I'm a product uh director at TD Bank uh which is the top two bank in Canada. So I help to reshape the finance team's AI transformation strategy and the road map by identifying where AI can deliver meaningful value and turn those opportunities into practical solutions. And on top of that, I was also like co-host six students of the AI boot camp where I have launched my first AI product style pilot which can give you a recommendation about what you are going to wear uh for today or help you to plan your trip. So uh those two rows seem very different but actually um the same goal is to use AI to solve the real human problems. And how I'm landing the current role here is because four years ago um I met with Dr. Nancy Lee. Um so and and in 2022 I have already spent seven years in uh big four like as a consultant and I told Nancy that I want to become a product manager. Um so I took the PMA program and that program helped me to repackage my skill sets and my resume to prepare the interviews to learn the knowledge and then that experience have shaped me from consultant to a product manager and then three uh one year ago with the rising of a AI I found that I want to pivot myself again from a traditional product manager to a product manager. So I joined the AI boot camp and build star pilot and meanwhile I share the journey that how I built star pilot from day one. So with that sharing actually I exposed myself to more opportunities to the public. So the opportunity come to find me and I become a product uh director uh this year in TD Bank. >> This is very exciting. Hold on hold on Julie. Let me understand. You become a director product in short four years. First of all, it's very fast. And second, you didn't apply for jobs at all. They found you. Tell us more. What what happened? So, the recruiter just reached out to you on LinkedIn. Tell us more. And what what happened? Why what do you think drive them to reach out to you and invite you? >> It's actually not the uh recruiter, it's the Seale person in the bank. >> So, u the person reach out to me. Yeah. because you know like as a leading bank in Canada like they all want to do AI like the AI transformation right so uh we we are the top two bank uh top one is RBC and the top one doing AI well in US is JP Morgan Chase so we don't want to leave behind with the other like a US banks right so actually our leadership team is very proactively to looking for the talents the resources that can help to build a team and to reshape the finance team. So that's why that sea level person he reached out to me directly saying um I'm building a team in my in my department. Do you want to join? And then I just make a meet with him and then yeah I become the product uh director. This is holy cow. The sea level of billion dollar bank >> in Canada >> reach out to you because he saw your post about style pallet which is the AI product you launched inside AIM boot camp. Then he was like do you want to join my team as a director? >> Yes. >> Holy cow. Holy cow. I DON'T EVEN KNOW THE SEA level people actually go to LinkedIn because they are very busy. Apparently they are searching. >> Yeah. Yeah. They are they are s they are searching people they are also following people and another thing is um the reason that we have the connection is because as I mentioned in the last episode I was the awardw winninging per leader right in TD so I was awarded to a trip to Miami like only the top 1% of the employee get that award can be there like only like 30und people like in TD we have like a 12k employees globally but only three 100 people get that award can be in that conference and all the sea level has to be there so that's why I build a network with that sea level gentman there because of my um my award right so and then we follow each other in in the linking once I started doing the posting about how I build that pilot how I um learn about the AI and my thoughts about the AI I then he reach out to me directly uh like we have started to exchange some notes and then once he wants to build build a team um like within like the finance right then everything happens just naturally. Yeah. >> Oh this is so crazy. This is like this is like dream come true. This you can you can we can do a third episode ON THAT DETAIL. >> OH MY [laughter] GOD. That's crazy. This is this is beyond beyond crazy guys. Okay so let's let's go. Usually we go through a recruiter so you actually direct reach out like C level reach out to you. This is amazing. So I also believe that it's more than just luck and it's also more than you build it right because >> you do see lots of people building different AI product but very few people very less than 1% I think less than 1% was invited by sea level to become a director right so let's talk more regarding what are the skills you have built that you think contribute to it right become a director of AI product in less than four years and especially you actually I think even I think that I personally believe is that you already accelerate your career at the beginning because every year when I see you like you get promoted every single day within the company right and then you got opportunity to become top top 1% employees and then you get connected and then he see a post I believe the different steps connected not just I like like right away so let's dive deeper regarding what are the skills that you think that you have earned and developed that contribute to the entire excite federation to director of gen product within less than four years. >> Mhm. Like I would say the truth is is you have to react very fast like you have to adapt to the markets very fast. So when I graduate from my masters of financial engineering in 2014 I believe yeah so at that time like financial engineering was very hot. So that's why I joined Deote as a consultant and do the financial modeling, the risk modeling right and then I found that I want to do something in tech because like all the tech companies like they are extending right like with Google, Meta, Amazon and then I want to change my career to become a product manager like to build a real tech uh product. So I always developed myself and try to adapt to market and then within that four or four years in TD as a true product manager I found that AI was rising right so we have chat GBT all the AI solutions there then I found okay they have to pivot myself from a just a traditional product manager to a AI product manager so I have to do two things one I have to gain the real product management leadership skills So I can further scale up and number two I have to learn uh AI right so I have to learn like the fundament like the fund a mentor of the AI and how I can build um like the AI applications so that's why I joined the AI boot camp to gain that experience so that's why I can like grow very fast because I always uh react very fast and I always adapt myself to the market >> this is very beautiful regarding and how you always plan ahead. So can you tell us more regarding the mindset? In our last episode, you lose a little bit regarding how you change your mindset to grow yourself and prepare yourself for the future changes and I believe that's what we have in common and I had similar mindset and also want to share this kind of mindset with our audience. Can you share us more regarding your mindset in terms of preparing yourself for future promotion? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So I always ask myself a question. So what is the future version of my uh myself to look like in three and five years? So like to to get a the future version of myself what kind of the skills that I have to accumulate what kind of the experience that I have to get right so it's not you do one thing then you are get the results you have to try a lot the the the different things you have to accumulate all the skills and all the experiences that you need to prepare yourself to achieve the vision of your future self. So that's how I always uh pivot myself from a consultant to a product manager and a product manager to a AI product manager and now I I can share a little bit more with you like I want to be a true AI entrepreneur. So I also like try to explore like how I can achieve that goal. Uh because I think um a good AI uh entrepreneur has to be a good AI product manager. But a good AI product manager cannot always be a good AI entrepreneur. So that's why I'm still like uh uh evolving my skill sets to get myself ready to become a true AI entrepreneur. I like that you always say think ahead and figure out who you want to be and reverse engineer and actually I have the same mindset and I actually I mentioned that in our last YouTube video regarding how like are you able to land a job in H&M or not. I also mentioned in multiple videos before literally when I was a PhD students I was I was only getting paid $1,400 and I still send money back to China today. We our family never have money. I never have money in my life either. But the mindset of growing who you want to be is my strong drive. Get what what I want to be. So uh at when I was a PhD students I literally was thinking about my future goal is become a CEO of Fortune 500 company. Even if my founding very poor we have no connections. We're immigrant in the new country. Everything is very different but that's my goal. Then I reverse engineer what the CEO for company look like. Steve Jobs all the like top people would look like. Well they're very good public speaking number one. They also have more like business skills and I have all the PhDs, engineering skill, I'm missing business skills. So I started learning but at the time it was I really didn't have money but I spent $8,000 learning public speaking and taking my C CFA exams but it just because I know invest early is like planning a seat and yes later you're grow into the position. You plan the seat too late it will never reach your goal. This is a very important mindset I want everyone to really think about. So I want comment in in the podcast comment below and let me know what is number one thing or two things that you want to be in the next five years or 10 years or even like something long is there any goal who you want to be I want you to comment in the description of the show note because someday in the future when I read all my comment I was like wow five years later you make it right. So it's important to start thinking about planning and dreaming about it. >> Yeah. So I will definitely check the video in five years like to see whether my dream has come true. >> Yeah. Exactly. And if you don't set a goal, you don't reverse engineer a plan right now, five years later, you will never hit your goal. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Exactly. And I also invite everyone to start thinking about where you were five years ago. Five years ago, would you feel like you would be where you are right now? My life was totally different. Five years ago, I just I just had a kid. No clue where I am. Like who I want to be. I want to be who I am. is how far I am in my life and a career as well. So everyone need to really plan further so that five years later you won't regret that oh I'm still flat within five years. This is so beautiful and then also want everyone to check out next episode with the pika she's also she also every single year got promoted become a principal prime manager within two years and this is in Oracle which is very very exciting. She also talks a lot regarding how she develop people's skills as well. Uh, and you can check out the podcast video right here. I'm also link in the description of the show notes. So, everybody need to start learning. Um, so Judy, let me ask you this question. So, now you're already a director and you're planning your next career which is like AI entrepreneur was like very exciting. Um, tell us more. What a day in life director of AI product right now so that people can plan if they want to become director of AI, they can plan ahead of time, right? So, what do you do as a director of AI product? >> Um, yeah. So that's a great uh question. So as I mentioned I I was hired by the sea level like uh person in TD bank. So my number one priority is I work very closely with him to help and also with the Microsoft team because in TD we use co-pilot. So uh I help him to build some promps and the agents so can increase his personal productivity. So um that's my uh number one priority and number two is I help to shape the finance AI transformation strategy and the road map. Um so like TD Bank has a 1 billion goal um in two years. So to achieve that goal as a finance team like we have to act um how we can achieve that goal together by set um the different waves of the deliverables. let's say in fiscal year 2026 what projects what or what what AI solution that we have to deliver and then what we have to prepare for 2027 right so that that's my number two um mandate and number three is because we we are the bank so we can't just say go go go we can go all in in AI we have to think about the risk so um I have to help to shape the AI governance operating model within the bank and within the finance team right so what kind of the you like the use cases that have to be forbidden because we are we are the bank we can't let LLM to generate a financial statements uh to the investors it's impossible right so we have to set the right uh gut rails and a human in the loop like in terms of how we are applying those AI solutions >> this is so cool actually I like to very surprised to see that you guys are very advanced in implementing AI on in the day-to-day basis. So, let me um and also I also feel like you soon will get promoted to become VP because you create AI agent help your sea level to become more productive. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> I think he just you're the go-to person for him. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So I have currently I have a a very high visibility um to the to the executives because my passion to uh AI and my curiosity to AI because I always put myself um in a pace to always learn the cutting edge technology and actually one month ago I went to Stanford to attend AI summit like I met so many people like the top uh VCs and also the top frontier uh employees uh such as people from Nvidia from OpenAI to learn about what they are thinking. So I'm always learning I'm always invest my time and my money in a way that how I can better grow myself. >> This is so beautiful which also linking to regarding people always want to invest in yourselves. The people you know may give you new opportunity maybe sometime open will invite you oh maybe you can join here that open. Yeah, you never know. And if you check my linking, so since I I I think my last post um got like a five five 100 likes like it just go virus. The reason because Nvidia AI commented in my post. >> Oh, >> like the like the like the official account of Nvidia AI commented in that post. So like people started to repost to comments. So that's post just go virus. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go viral. And then you're able soon open AI PEOPLE WILL BE OH SO she's prop something cool maybe record >> hopefully. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that that that's a go. Uh that's is also how people need to learn how to get started building a real life AI product. First you have something first thing to post about then you post a real life AI product and then you got opportunity become the top employee and then get invited by the sea level and then you go to different companies jump in and this is very very exciting. This is so cool. So therefore everybody who's interested in AI product management book and want to learn more how it works is so that you can build your real life AI product just like Judy to get started with her director position. You should go to our website pms.ioipm to learn more. I'm also on the link in the description of the show not for you to book a call with our career career advisor to see if it qualify for the program. Now let me also change a little bit. Uh, we talk about growing the career, right, Judy? And what about work life balance, right? Especially myself was a director. I when I was a director, I work in a midnight every day. It was really, really tough and so much work. And at the time, I was also pregnant with my first kid. Went through a very difficult like pregnancy. And now you're a mom of three. How do you manage a work life balance as a director and mom of three and going to conferences and taking beautiful pictures and going viral, all of those? So tell us more. >> Okay. Yeah. So, so I would say like the fundamental is you have to know how to preserve your energy and how can you build your own supporting system either in work or in your life. So in my work right so as I mentioned I work with the sea level to help him to build the agents or promps. So I ask for resources. So what kind of the resource that I can leverage? So he has a special like a people to help him to organize his email. So I leverage that person's experience about how he interacts with the sea level people and also I ask for if I can work with Microsoft so the Microsoft team has the technology right so he so they may know like how can better build an agent for the sea level people and uh so that so that's only an example right so you always need either in your work you have to know how to delegate your work to other people with trust trust and also you have to know how to ask for help in the right time. And the uh same thing to my life, you have to know how to build a supporting system for yourself because uh life is not a sprint, right? You have to think in a long term. So you kind of like okay I have to survive today so what about tomorrow? So you have to always preserve your energy to make sure that you have enough energy to to survive uh every day survive in your long term. So uh either you can build some good uh relationship with your friends so they can help you to take care of their kids when you are busy or or when is in the emergency or you have to leverage um like maybe your parents or or your uh in-laws whether they can come over or for a couple days to help you to take to take off the kids so you can you can get a break or I also have a Nelly that come to my house to do like the New preparation and also the housekeeping like I like I trade that three hours is not um spent it's not an expense it's an investment so it means that I not only have 24 hours I have 27 hours so for that three hours I can be myself uh I can either work uh uh I can go uh go to plotty um uh I can go do something that I like so that um so that's way that I can better preserve my energy so I can do well in my work and I can have a better quality with my kids. So that's how I um juggling between the life and the work is uh is I know how to um ask for help and how to build a supporting system and how to make the right investment at some time >> and on top of that you also marry a very supportive husband and I family this is so beautiful and I like your mindset regarding like hiring other people is a investment same thing and I hire nis all the time and now We also have a housekeeper. They also cook for me. I think we have the same setup. No matter. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's good. That's good. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, so when we hire those people, it's more about return investment of time. Same thing. Mowing your lawn, do your laundry. Think about this. >> Is let's say you pay them $25 per hour. Each city is different. Let's say $25 per hour, right? Is your hour rate higher than $25 per hour? I believe so. Your director product. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then if you let's say your R rate is $200 per hour. I think you're probably based on salary conversion like 200 you probably pay you $200 per hour to be a director, right? >> Then you are trading in $25 in exchange for $200 per hour. >> That's almost like 8x eight times return on investment. Then you use a time to post about your AI product to go to conferences and talk to recruiters or hiring managers sea level from open AI >> and this is of course it's not the first time you talk to someone from open AAI you get invited to get paid 100 like $1.5 million in open of course not but every investment but if you just do your housework every single day and burn yourself out even if you one day you talk to CEO of OpenAI and you be like uh I have not seen to share. So >> you don't have the energy to share. So that's why uh I say as a woman like we have so many identities, right? We are a mom, we are a like a business woman like we we are we are also a a daughter because I'm the single daughter from my parents. So we have so many responsibilities that we have to take. So if someone like if you spend some money that that that can help you to to preserve your energy to share your burden. I think that's is not a cost. It's not an expense. It's it's a truly investment to yourself. >> Totally. Even when you hire none and time to go to the gym. >> Yeah. >> I think it's so beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also you have to have trust to the people that you deserve to trust because what so because when my kids were very young like when I was the first time mom like I I have taken care of my daughter like from day to night that really burn me out because I was the f first time to become a mom right so I want to take care of her by myself but I found that it's not sustainable uh I'm not AI I'm a human I have to rest. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Like you you know like the hormones like the like like everything and the burnout is easily to burn you out. So the lesson that I learned is if you don't know how to self love and self-care, you don't have the energy or capability to take care of the people that you love. So then then I started to delegate like the kids to the grandparents. So now in so now I sent my daughter and my bigger son to um China to my parents to do the a summer school and also my in-laws are here to help me to take to take care of the the like the youngest one. So that's how like I have the time and the capability to go to network with like the frontier tech companies and also I have the energy to work with the sea level because they because the sea level doesn't want to see a person who has been burned out by the family right like he wants to see a person like with full energy full passion uh full uh full full curiosity for AI so that's can make the bank better like place right so that's the um yeah secret beside the thing like like I would say I have to know how to delegate >> totally this is very beautiful I think all the women transform as a mom and later on realize about so many different identities we need to live through and this is very beautiful and literally I published another YouTube video and talking about I stopped YouTube for 9 months I was to so burned out for everything happened in my life. I was also depressed. Uh and then I end how I literally figure out how to fall in love with myself again. >> That's why I didn't even love myself. Too just too burned out, too much going on, want to do everything. >> Yeah, totally understood. Yeah, I have I've gone through that period of time because I had three kids in five years. Like I took the maternity leave for almost the three years because in Canada you can have a one year maternity leave, right? So I so I've taken like three year uh ma uh matt leave but I use that time to invest myself. So the funny thing is every time I took the matt leave I my career has go step up for one level because I use that time also to re to reflect what kind of the person that I want to be in two or three years. Do you want to be a mom like only take only take up the kids and uh you burn out in the family but you don't have your own dream and your own career? No, that that's not me. So that's why I spent money in nanny and in taking the course whatever I need and then prepare myself once I finish my math leave then okay uh I can go for my career so to the uh next level. I think one of your matern leave you found me. I remember. >> Yeah. So every time. So so so yeah. Yeah. So in 2020 uh yeah in 2022 I was in the mass leaf with my my my second one. So I found you because I feel so burned out. I uh uh and I feel like uh I'm so lost like what? So so so what is my future? So I'm so confused. Then I watch your YouTube uh video which is so inspiring like then I just reach out to you and say I want to become a product manager. So I'm so lucky that I meet with you. So that really helped me to ch to change my career path. And then the last year when I joined the um the AI boot camp I just wrap up my third math leave. So I come back to my career. I I'm still a traditional product manager but meanwhile I spent my spell time to build a AI product from zero to one and the meanwhile I I'm I'm sharing my stories in the linking right so that give me the exposure to public so people will be knowing me what what I'm doing so that's how I'm put like how I land a job like um as a product director in TV right now >> this is so beautiful so a lots of like took a career break for families including myself. Um if we focus on using the time to reinvest into ourselves, it is actually way for us to like jumpstart our career actually spring ahead instead of spring like fall back as well. This is so insightful. Um I hope this is a good inspiration for all the women out there. You're not alone. All the burnout is so true. Um challenges we're facing is normal. That's is part of all the moms you go through including dads as well. Okay. And yeah, but always have a different mindset. Think about who you want to be next and reverse engineer skills that you master to help yourself to get to next level. Um, >> exactly. >> Now, uh, and also by the way, I everybody my video about how I turn from burned out and also refine and the opportunity to fall in love with myself again. This YouTube video is right here on the top of the screen. You can also watch in the description of the video and you might see yourself as a part of your story similar to mine and Judy's as well. And so Judy, let me ask you this quick question. Any advice you have to young women who want to grow into leadership roles, right? We talk a lot about my mom's whatever, but I remember when I was young woman, I just felt I was very lost. I felt like I was very ambitious, but opportunity wasn't given to me and lot of times saying that I'm too young and I speak with accent. I only work with men. All my company, I only work with men. I only manage men. There's only one product manager in my company at the time. And I was uh managing people. I was like, can you move a woman under me? Then no, no, no, no, no. We cannot have two women in your team. That woman report to another man. You manage other men, Doc N. Okay. So, so how how could a young woman would grow their career into leadership roles? What advice we have for them? >> Yeah. You have to increase your visibility and to show your impact to other people. So you can't just say okay I'm doing this like I'm I'm I'm working very hard. I'm working like from 9 to uh um from 8 to 10 uh every day. So the work is important is help you to accumulate your experience to enhance your skills. But how you present your work to the leadership team, how to increase your visibility, how to share what you are doing and what you are learning is also a skill that you have to learn. So like when I was in deoid like I work like 60 to 70 hours per week but I haven't been pro promoted like for one time in deoid. Yeah. So, so, so I uh I think when I uh reflect in my career is because I'm only uh working but not showing the impact like I'm not presenting the leadership skills. I'm not like try to network with the partners or the sea level people because I feel oh they are they are too senior like I'm I'm I'm still a a junior consultant. So how can I like um like even talk to them? like I feel so nervous but now I feel more uh confident about my skill sets maybe because I'm old enough so I have enough like a confidence and skill sets so I can feel more confidently to talk to talk to them because they are also human being I think at this age of AI I think the young um women they have the privilege as well because to AI like even though you have like a a 30 year work experience but like everyone's new to AI right so imagine like my sea level like a leader he's still learning AI so he always come to me uh Judy can you share with me uh what's going on with AI and what other banks are doing with AI so your privilege is you are young so you learn very fast right so you can learn faster even than the sea level people and they are willing to hear what you are learning from AI. So actually I think it's a golden age um a golden era for the young uh talents no matter women or men like I feel it's it's the age for you like you can learn faster than the like steel level people like even the CEO of the fortune 500 company because you are young so don't think they are very senior they are quite um like a proven but you have your own privilege >> this is very well said and especially when you say about the age of AI. It is very true. I have so many people reach out to me. Oh, I'm a director very senior 20 years experience. I in what? Our director making a Microsoft PowerPoint. Oh, I [laughter] think that was that was a little bit a little bit out outdated. I'm sorry. Um you're Microsoft director PowerPoint. I'm sorry outdated. But you are nobody in AI and everybody transforming to AI, right? And then so older more experienced really means nothing nowadays. So therefore that's why everybody is picking up all the important AI knowledge nowadays. And now also felt like knowledge is not enough either. >> It's more about like building it and then also building with real users. Now nowadays people can use wipe coding to build something 30 minutes. >> Yeah. >> And then doesn't work anymore because when everybody wipe code within 30 minutes what what's left for you? So therefore it's very critical we need to create production level AI product with real users launch on Apple app store like how you did it with real users and people like so excited leading a team team of 16 uh engineers all 16 women building this managing people actually also believe that people management skills is the most important skill that cannot be replaced by AI that people need to get hands on to it especially like and then sharing your knowledge and let people know your visibility like so much going on so much going on uh I have a separate YouTube video where I talk dive deeper regarding how I become a direct product within four years and you guys can learn more regarding all the people skills how I network within the company and presentselves as well. Uh and the YouTube videos right here I'm also link in the description of the show notes so you guys can watch it as well and of course everybody who want to learn more about AI product management boot camp by leading a team of 16 engineer create your own production level AI product launching Apple app store with real users you can go to our website pms.io/ AIPM to learn more. Uh and then of course and always uh link in description show not can book a call with our career advisor to see if a good fit for AIPM boot camp. Now Judy let me let me also at the end of talk I also ask my podcast guest two questions. Number one how you grow yourself professionally and personally especially emphasized so many times regarding you love to grow yourself thinking about futures. How exactly grow yourself? I assume like taking like learning AI and what else you do p prof professionally and personally and what resources you use. >> So I'm always expose myself to the new things and the new knowledge. So as I mentioned you have to be more adaptive to the um market. So you have to think about okay so what's the trend in the market and to be more adaptive to the trend how can you prepare yourself to the future of the AI. So now we are in the applica occasion level of AI like people are building the AI applica occasions uh uh here and there but what's the ne next I'm still like uh asking myself the question so what's the next so every day when you wake up you have to search for the news so what's going on with AI and what's going on with your industry and what's going on with the world and think and imagine what can be in the future and get ready for it. >> This is so beautiful. Yeah, always prepare for the future. So Judy, for any of the people product leader who want to follow you uh learn from you regarding how to grow their career as a director product, where can they find you and follow you? >> Yeah. So my linking I think will be shared under the post. Yeah, feel free to follow me and comment in any of my post uh below. I'm I'm very happy to connect there. Awesome. Okay, we're going to link in the description of the show notes. Thank you for joining us, Judy. >> Yeah, thank you, Dr. Nessie Lee. Thank you. >> Dear listener, if you find today's podcast insightful and inspiring, make sure to go to Apple Podcast and Spotify, whatever you're tuning in, write us a fivestar review, and I read every single review. This will become the motivation for me to continue to invest the time and energy to bring all the amazing guests to share all the wisdom and insight with all of you guys. And make sure also to followups on all our social channel like YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram, Tik Tok and X and Red and all your favorite social channel by searching Dr. Nancy Lee and send me a DM and you're able to get a lots of free and amazing content over there to grow your career in the space of AI product management. Um, anybody who's interested in uh learning more about AI product management boot camp and learning your dream product manageer job offer was in 90 days, you should go to PMs.io out and learn more. This is Dr. Nity from PM Accelerator. You're going to see you in my next episode right here regarding how our alumni is able to start a millionoll company and outside of AIPM boot camp. So you can do the same as well. Like and subscribe. See you in my next episode right