How promoters optimally encode transcription factor concentrations under time an physics constraints
Watch on YouTubeVideo summary
The video explores how DNA promoters function as sophisticated encoders designed to translate transcription factor concentrations into precise gene expression rates within the strict limits of time and physics. Drawing an analogy between early embryonic development—where cells must rapidly distinguish their position amidst molecular noise—and a WWII fighter pilot navigating without GPS, the speaker introduces Sequential Probability Ratio Testing (SPRT) as a statistical method for making binary decisions efficiently by updating likelihood ratios against thresholds. This approach minimizes decision times compared to deterministic schemes and is applied to biochemical sensing models where receptors bind and unbind ligands in Markov processes governed by diffusion limits. The discussion contrasts simple counting-based estimators, which rely on total observation time, with maximum likelihood estimation frameworks that reveal how information extraction depends heavily on specific binding dynamics rather than just equilibrium states.
As the analysis moves toward more realistic scenarios involving four-state models where transcription factors and RNA polymerase interact independently, it becomes clear that dynamic programming is necessary because likelihoods cannot be factored into simple products of exponentials due to hidden variables like transcribing without a factor present. The central challenge shifts from merely maximizing slope sharpness or cooperativity at equilibrium to managing the trade-off between Fisher information rate (drift) and diffusion-limited transition speeds across various states, including unbound/non-transcribing and fully active transcription configurations. Furthermore, the presence of spurious binding events introduces noise that does not contribute useful information, complicating traditional optimization strategies that assume systems operate near thermodynamic equilibrium.
Theoretical investigations highlight a critical trade-off between sensing efficiency and physical constraints such as time and energy availability. When observing accumulated mRNA rather than full trajectories, the system adapts its sensitivity based on concentration levels similar to eye adaptation, whereas prioritizing the observation of complete history favors keeping receptors free to maximize availability over mere sharpness. Models incorporating multiple binding sites demonstrate that cooperativity only emerges at high concentrations, while low concentrations benefit from maintaining receptor freedom without cooperative selectivity; consequently, optimal performance resides in a "Goldilocks zone" of selectivity rather than extreme permissiveness or harshness. Additionally, the study underscores that circuits operating far from equilibrium through irreversible cycles and energy dissipation via entropy production can achieve significantly higher Fisher information rates compared to their equilibrium counterparts.
Ultimately, while these simplified models provide theoretical optimal bounds for how evolution might optimize noisy biological systems under non-equilibrium constraints, they also reveal a gap between mathematical ideals and cellular reality. The speaker concludes that actual cellular mechanisms involve far greater complexity than the reduced four-state or two-state models suggest, particularly regarding energy usage where ATP consumption drives processes away from equilibrium to enhance sensing capabilities. By distinguishing these theoretical limits from biological intricacies, the presentation offers a nuanced understanding of how promoters balance the competing demands of speed, accuracy, and energetic cost in the noisy environment of the cell.
Read the full video transcript
from Lebanon from Beirut where he did
the first studies up to masters
where he moved to France. So he has been
in a corporate technique doing the
masters and we had a collaboration. So
he's a longtime visitor collaborator. We
published a nice paper last year. H so
it's a good example of someone who comes
from a field that is very different to
his research field because you are an
engineer. Uh so for him physics was all
new when he came first time here and and
also now he's doing biohysics which is
also new for him so it's it's a good
encouragement for all of you to jump to
a new topic so he's a good example he
can tell you many stories about it and
now he's doing PhD with Alexandra
Balchuk and Timura on decision making
and other topics in biohysics which is
the topic of your talk today so welcome.
Thank you. Thank you. No, thank you so
much for having me. I I spent some of
the most beautiful months of my life
here in Tieste uh working with Edgar and
uh learning so much like on many
different levels. This this place is
extremely stimulating and I was super
grateful to be here and very grateful to
be be here again. Um okay, so let's jump
into it.
It's World War II.
You are a fighter pilot belonging to one
of the militaries of the world that own
fighter jets. There are more and more
these days. And you have been shot down
over a city that you don't know. And you
need to find the embassy of your country
as fast as possible. And now the problem
is you don't know where you are because
you land somewhere. You don't have a
map. You don't have a GPS
and you land and you see this. So you
see a street
of uh in an unknown location and you see
some people crossing and you try to tell
yourself, okay, in most cities in the
world, the population density is high
roughly near the center and then it kind
of slowly falls off as you get towards
the countryside. So you try to
substitute what you can observe for what
you want to know. What you can observe
is how many people are crossing the
street and what you want to know is
where you are to find out if it's worth
camping uh on site or walking to the
embassy. Uh so this is the decision you
have to make and you're under pressure.
You want to make it quickly. So what
you're trying to do is you're trying to
infer the location, your location
relative to the center of town. You use
concentration of people as an estimate
for that and based on that you make
decision. But actually it's worse than
that because what you're really doing is
you don't have access to the real
concentration of people. That's a
population average. What you have is a
noisy variable. People crossing, people
not crossing. And then you use that to
do inference. And from that you say okay
is the concentration of people roughly
higher than this level or lower than
this level. And then based on that you
make a decision. So there's three parts
to what you're doing. You're you're
assuming that the information you're
interested in is encoded a certain way a
noisy way. You're doing the decoding
yourself and based on that you make a
decision. But jokes on you because I've
been talking to you about developmental
biology this whole time. So this is
exactly it maps almost one to one to the
way cells in the early part of the
development of an embryo decide where
they are and we were talking about that
over lunch right uh recently it was
discovered that you know you have
different behavior when um an embryo is
growing near the head of the embryo and
near the tail of the embryo. And this
reflects uh some of the earliest
biochemical decisions that are being
made on the way to developing the
organism into a into a full uh full
grown embryo. So the first decisions are
for each cell. Oh, we're near the head,
so we want to express this gene. We're
near the tail. We're not going to
express this gene. We're going to
express another gene. So in certain
organisms like the fly, this happens
very, very fast. So flies go from one
fertilized egg to a larvae in 24 hours.
So that's many many decisions that have
to happen in a noisy way because
remember all of these are done um with
molecules diffusing and binding to
receptors and things like that. So
there's a lot of noise and also under
the constraints of well how well can you
do this decoding in principle which is
something we're going to talk about a
lot. Also you assume that evolution has
somehow selected for this process to
happen efficiently because we observe it
happening very fast and very reliably.
You know like flies don't have a plus or
minus 5% tolerance on where their wing
is. It's very perfect almost perfectly
in the same place every time. So somehow
this information has to be encoded in a
very faithful way.
uh also there are constraints imposed by
the physics of the problem and how
things work at at molecular scales
namely diffusion. We're going to talk a
lot about that. It's going to be central
to the talk. So the main question I want
to talk to you about today is how would
you design an optimal encoder? And in
our case an encoder is a promoter which
is just a piece of DNA. Here I'm
symbolizing it with a black squiggly
line. It's a piece of DNA that's located
near the gene of of an organism and it's
the region that's responsible for
regulating the expression of this gene.
So there's going to be some protein that
floats around and binds to this promoter
and based on that the promoter will
activate transcription and transcription
if you're familiar with it from high
school. It's where uh an enzyme called
RNA polymerase sticks to the DNA and
starts to walk along the DNA and
produces mRNA, messenger RNA. That
messenger RNA gets translated into a
protein and does things later. So this
promoter is kind of the the the place
where information about concentration is
translated into another signal which is
transcription. So it's the encoder.
That's why I'm calling it an encoder.
So um taking a step back and thinking
about this problem of making decisions
based on noisy data across time. So a
very common situation that you encounter
in life is something like this where you
have something you see and you're trying
to decide well okay is it a bird or is
it a plane? So you wait a little bit and
it gets closer and initially you thought
it was a plane but actually it looks
kind of more like a bird now but when it
gets really close you know for sure it's
a bird. Okay. So what you have been
doing implicitly is calculating the
probability ratio of these two
hypotheses. So what you're saying is
well I see something assuming it's a
plane how likely is what I'm seeing uh
compared to what how likely it would be
if it was a bird and if that ratio is
above one you say okay it's more
probably a bird. If it's below one it's
more probably a plane. Um the exact
equivalent that you could be doing is
taking the log of that. So this this
thing now has to be below or above zero.
Um, and if you actually put a threshold
here, and then you' be very certain that
it was a bird when your log ratio went
above that threshold and then you would
be very certain that it was a plane if
it went below that threshold. So, it
seems intuitive that you could do
something like that. And actually, this
was proposed
uh by a guy called Abraham Wald in 1945.
This exact procedure that I just
described to you. You observe some data.
You're trying to distinguish two
hypotheses. You keep observing your data
and you update a log likelihood ratio of
the two hypotheses and when it goes
above a certain threshold that you set
in advance which is going to be related
to the error that you're willing to
make, right? Because you're going to
make an error. You you know you don't
always guarantee that you make the right
decision. Everything is noisy here. So
you fix your error level and you say
with K log one minus your error over
your error you accept and minus K you
you reject symmetric hypothesis. So it
was this procedure was shown to be the
the decision-m strategy that gives you
on average the shortest time to make a
decision out of all possible strategies.
So you could come up with other ways of
trying to make this decision. On average
this will be the fastest.
Uh 1945 is not a coincidence. Yes. I
>> have a question about
the probability.
What is the probability of the
hypothesis given the data?
Yes, that's a very good point and
actually I've kind I'm uh I'm hiding
something here which is that if you
assume that you have prior beliefs on
your hypothesis so without observing
anything you don't have any reason to
believe uh one hypothesis over the
other. So you assume that your priors
are equal 50% 50%.
If you assume that then what you said is
equivalent to this but you're absolutely
right. the the way the the more correct
way to do it would be to say what's the
probability of the hypothesis given the
data and that's called the posterior
um but because right and I should have
mentioned that because I'm assuming that
you know a priori you you don't have a
reason to prefer one over the other then
these two ratios are interchangeable
um right so this was um this was the
result of research during the second
world war so I I I I I I realized that
my example from the beginning was which
was not in inspired by by this fact but
by some other facts. Anyway, so this is
what it looks like uh visually kind of
if you plot this log ratio and here I'm
using a shorthand P of C to refer to P
of data given C right and C here is the
first hypothesis C plus delta C is
another hypothesis that you know
assuming your hypotheses are
one-dimensional things are very close to
the original hypothesis deferring only
by factor delta. So this is what it
looks like and your K threshold is
horizontal line. When this random
process crosses the line for the first
time then you make a decision and this
you can model it as a drift diffusion.
There are properties that relate the
drift to the diffusion and I'm not going
to go into that. There's a lot of
interesting work being done.
So
now I'm going to do a calibration uh
question.
So,
I'd like you to raise your hand, please,
if you if you agree with this statement.
There's no tricks here. It's a It's
calibration, so it's supposed to be very
So, are there what 17 people? Okay,
please, if you agree, raise your hand
and don't be shy.
So,
okay. So, five out of 17 people didn't
raise their hand.
Good. Perfect. It's going to be
interesting. So, I'm going to I'm going
to run you through an applied example
for SPRT. Now, so what I just did is I
calibrated you. So, five So, 17 people,
five
didn't raise their hand. So, I'm gonna
assume I'm gonna model you guys. Okay,
you uh didn't raise your hand.
This is the probability of new you not
raising your hand. You could have raised
your hand. You could have not raised
your hand because you're shy, right?
Times the probability that you're shy or
you could have not raised your hand.
No hand given that you're not shy.
one minus the probability that you're
that you're shy.
So this is uh this is a very simple
model of you your behavior that I'm
going to use all all along the talk to
kind of probe you and understand if
you're ask if you're if if you're
understanding what I'm saying or not. So
the probability that you're shy we just
calibrated it because we asked the
question that is true and very obvious
and everyone should know it. So you
already know it, but you were shy. So
you didn't answer. Um, so this is going
to be the probability that you don't
raise your hand given that you're shy is
one, right? Because you're shy. So this
is going to be P that you're shy.
Plus this thing is the problem that I
want to try to address in this talk that
you didn't raise your hand and you're
not shy. That means you're you're lost.
I'm going to call this P lost. Okay. So
uh P lost * 1 - P shy.
Okay.
>> Why is it lost and not disagreeing?
>> Because everything I will tell you is is
true.
You cannot disagree. The only thing you
can do is not understand because what
I'm going to be testing you on is not uh
trick questions. It's just going to be
did you understand this? Can you explain
it to someone? And I'm going to count on
you to give me honest answers. I can't
do better than that for now. So,
um okay.
Right.
So now let's say okay what's the
probability of observing K hands
that were raised given that P lost my
objective in this talk is to make sure P
lost is above is below 0.5 okay so let's
say P lost uh equals uh whatever P just
going to call it P parameter maybe call
it Q so that we don't get confused so
this is going to be
what? This is going to be K hands means
I observe K hands raised. So k choose n
p
of
no hand
to the power n minus k 1 minus p
no hand
to the power k and p no hand we just got
it here in terms of pshi which we
calibrated and we got we got Five out of
17. So you're really shy actually. So
what's that? That's That's about 0
28 or something approximately.
0.28. I Okay. I I I I ran my trials
assuming it was going to be 0.1 or
something, but that's okay. I think
it'll still work out. So So what am I
doing here? I'm writing down the
likelihood of some data that I just
observed based on a very simple and
model that's very wrong also because
there's many assumptions that aren't
correct. But let's stick with it just to
for the pedagogical example. So now if
you want to do uh I want to write down
the log likelihood ratio of p of
observing k hands
given that p lost
um is equal to uh say 0.6
p of observing k hands
given that p lost is equal to 0.4 four.
Okay, now we can do that, right? You
just take this, this factor cancels out.
You're left with this. You substitute
this value for it and what you get is
something like
uh correct me if I'm wrong cuz I did
this yesterday evening so it might be
wrong. So this is going to be n minus k
log of
Um,
Pshai,
I'm going to do this first. P shai
plus
p los 1 minus p
shai
um
minus
so p los going to be 0.6 here
0.6 six
log of P
sh. Sorry, my handwriting is not great
on the blackboard
plus K
time
log of
1 - P shus 0.6
Okay, so it's something like this. Okay,
so I wrote a Python script to implement
this and as the talk progresses, I'm
going to ask you checkpoint questions
and we're going to gather data and at
the end we're going to draw the SPRT and
we're going to figure out if you got
something out of the talk or not. Okay,
so the first checkpoint question is
this. So if you have a data generating
model, SPRT is the fastest procedure to
make binary decisions on average.
But you can come up with a deterministic
scheme that can give you a faster
decision some of the time for individual
experiments. How many people agree with
this statement or are comfortable or
have understood this aspect?
>> Yes, it's it's this. Sorry, I I didn't
give you the the acronym, right? So,
it's it's what this procedure is called.
It's called sequential probability ratio
test. Okay. So, it's a stochastic
decision-making test. It depends on the
randomness in your data. You can come up
with a with a scheme that says I'm going
to wait for 5 minutes and then decide if
I have seen more evidence favoring H0, I
will decide H0. If I if I find more
evidence for H1, I'll decide H1. You can
do that and you'll always decide in 5
minutes. If you do this because it's
random, you could observe your data and
you may, you know, take longer than five
minutes sometimes, but on average
um you'll decide in the fastest possible
way.
Are are you okay with this? I need to
collect data. So raise your hands if you
think this is clear. Okay. One, two,
three, four, five, six,
seven. Okay, that's that's I think
that's good enough. Okay. So the I'm
going to I'm going to do the thing here.
So checkpoint number one
checkpoint.
Uh this is K seven.
Good.
Okay. Let's move on. So, SPRT was was uh
suggested first as a general statistical
test, but a few years back
um
it it it was applied to the problem that
I described to you in at the beginning,
which is uh biochemical sensing.
So
if you want to model the the very
simplest um situation in in in
biochemical sensing, you'll have one
receptor and you'll have something
floating in the medium around that
receptor that can bind to it and that
can unbind with it's a markoff process.
So you can assume that binding times are
exponential and the the time to arrive
and bind is also exponential. The rates
are going to be different. They're going
to be governed by binding is going to be
governed by C times some base binding
rate. C being the concentration of the
thing you have. Right? At high
concentration, many things are going to
arrive per unit time. So your rate is
higher. The unbinding rate doesn't
depend on C. When something is stuck, it
just stays there for an exponential
time. Then it detaches. Okay? So you can
write down the likelihood. You observe.
Okay. I look at my receptor bound
unbound bound unbound and the durations
of time. You use this data. You can
write down a likelihood for this
trajectory. It's very simple because uh
you assume that binding and unbinding is
independent. So your likelihood is just
a product of exponentials. So you can
write it down like this. You have um the
probability of remaining for time s
uh bound
the probability of remaining for time t1
unbound and then for s2 bound and then
you keep going and all of these terms
ckb don't depend on the time so they
collapse. This is just raised to the
power n. N is the total number of
binding unbinding things that that you
observe. And in the exponential you get
a sum. It's just a sum of the total.
It's a total time spent bound total time
spent unbound. Okay, this is pretty
straightforward.
You can take the log. The log splits
nicely because it's a product becomes a
sum. And then you say okay if you wait a
long time you can approximate this as a
drift diffusion as a brownian process
actually uh with drift.
So this is what uh CJ and Vergasola did
in 2013. They computed uh analytically
the drift of this log likelihood ratio.
And what this tells you is remember SPRT
is this uh decision- making process
where you have uh you know you can go up
or down etc
and you decide when you go above K or
below K and you have a drift on average
if you wait a long time this is going to
be governed by a certain bias in in your
process and this drift tells you how
good you are at making decisions uh per
unit time. So if your drift was really
high, you will reach this bound much
quicker. So you can make decisions
quickly and that means you're very
effective at distinguishing
uh your two hypotheses with each binding
event. But if your drift was low, that
means you observe things and you kind of
can't tell if the concentration was high
or low or whatever. So this quantity is
important. This u it's going to be it's
going to be important for the rest of
the talk also to think about it. Okay.
Um other people have uh done more things
with this. They've done optimization of
the rates. So far we've assumed so what
I did here is I calibrated you with a
simple question to understand what Pshi
was and PI was an unknown uh parameter
in my model. But what you can do is you
can say evolution has access to uh you
know evolution goes over a long time and
you can say well assume a receptor has
been optimized by nature to be very
sensitive to concentration. What would
this pshi be? This is this is going to
be the essence of of my talk. This is
going to be what I'm telling you about.
So you plug in the notion that
optimization can be happening here
because these organisms are being
selected to be sensitive to certain
concentrations and we know that from
from the the way gene regulation works.
You know this protein codes for this
gene and you have to know how much of
this protein there is. So you assume
evolution has done a good job and so you
say okay we can optimize over this and
you say so do you have an idea what py
would be if we applied this logic here
very easy question if I was assuming
that you are very informative of your
own level of understanding of what I'm
telling you what should pi be
it should be zero exactly so this is
kind of the the the
the the the trivial like sanity check.
So um this has been also used in yes
>> the average that you were taking earlier
in the last
>> over um
>> over different traces right that's a
good point so over you collect data over
many trials or equivalently you can just
wait a long time average over time
average over experiments in this case is
going to be the same. So this this same
procedure has been used in stoastic
thermodynamics very different context by
uh some people in this room Edgar and
collaborators to decide on if you
observe a a stoastic process is it
moving forward in time or backward in
time in the same framework of uh
sequential probability ratio you can use
it and you can show that it has
connections with thermodynamics that are
very interesting. Okay. So now we forget
about sequential uh hypothesis testing.
Um I'm going to take you to another
thread in in biohysics research that has
been very influential which is a related
question which is um so how sensitive is
the estimator? If you if you think about
statistical estimation
uh and treat the receptor as a
statistician they come up with an
estimator how uh how much variance is
there in this estimator the very old
statistics uh framework. So another
problem a common situation that people
have in life is you you want to catch
bus number six to go downtown and you
you don't know the schedule and you see
people waiting right everyone has faced
this if you gone so should I run or not
so you say okay let's say let's see the
average number of people that that that
I observe is is proportional to the rate
of arrival of people but also the time
since the last bus passed you can say
that okay it's reasonable Then you could
say, I want to try and use the number of
people as an estimate for time. So it
takes you, for example, three minutes to
run to the bus stop. Uh you want to you
want to find out as accurately as you
can if if enough time has passed that
it's not worth running because the bus
is going to come really soon or if you
still kind of have time to make a run
for it. Uh I'm not encouraging you to do
this. You should use the underground
tunnel because it's very dangerous to
run across the street here. Um but yeah
so okay people arrive with a rate lambda
uh the average number of people at time
t is lambda t and you say I'm going to
use the number of people so what you do
is you invert this relationship average
number of times lambda t you want an
estimate for t you just take lambda and
you put it uh in the denominator of the
empirical observed number of people you
don't have access to the average That's
what you're trying to estimate. That's
one way to make an estimate. It's okay.
I suppose the number of people I observe
is the average plus some fluctuations.
So you take lambda, you put it in the
denominator, and this gives you t hat,
which is your est your noisy estimate of
what time it is relative to when the
last bus passed. Okay, you can say,
okay, what's the variance of of my
estimate? How good am I at telling the
time using this very crude method? So
you can compute it. It's one over t. So
the more the longer you wait the lower
your your variance will be and this is
very typical for post processes you know
uh this kind of uh variance that
decreases so I'm I'm normalizing by t ^
squ here so uh 1 / t is very typical for
diffusion processes and processes
uh okay this is exactly what people did
um in the 1970s to try and understand
how effectively can a concentration
Can can a concentration be estimated
from binding and unbinding times? Uh so
exactly the same method you assume that
a receptor is making an estimate of
concentration by counting the number of
binding events and dividing them by KBT.
So this is Chat BP uh because this is
the estimator that was given by Bergen
PCEL 1977. This is a very influential
paper in biohysics. It kind of you know
launched a whole series of
investigations on how accurate can
things be you know and you you include
various elements correlation rebinding
all kinds of interesting things that
happen at the molecule level. So they
came up with um just like CJ and Vasola.
Oh okay sorry forget about what I said
they they calculate just like just like
I did on the previous slide the variance
of this estimator. So how good do you do
uh on average? And this is the variance.
It's proportional to it's proportional
to the inverse of A, which is the size
of the receptor. If you have a larger
receptor, you can get more statistics.
D, which is the the diffusion
coefficient of the molecule that's
floating and binding to the receptor. If
you have a lower diffusion coefficient,
it's going to take longer for things to
arrive. So that this hurts your your
estimate. Also, uh the time, of course,
if you wait for longer, you make a more
accurate estimate. and one minus p is
the probability of being bound. So
that's that also has to do with the the
properties of the receptor. So this is a
very famous uh calculation.
Now I'm going to show you a different
way to do it which comes from a more
recent paper uh a few years ago like 12
15 years ago now which is uh in the same
spirit as as what I showed you before
with with hypothesis testing. So you
write down a likelihood. It's exactly
the same likelihood as in CJ and VGA
solo. You write down you see binding
unbinding blah blah blah log likelihood.
You get a term that depends on the total
time spent unbound the total time spent
bound plus these terms in the log. Then
you say okay I'm going to take the
derivative of this with with respect to
C and I'm going to find the C that
maximizes the likelihood of what I
observe. So you do that and you get uh
another estimator
which is number of binding times divided
by KB times TU the total time spent
unbound and this is important remember
I didn't show you I did actually here
sorry there shouldn't be any brackets
here I this is this is wrong it should
be n the actual observed number of
binding events divided by KBT t is the
total time.
This is if you observe counting if you
do maximum likelihood you get n / kbt
unbound. So what is this telling you?
It's telling you that if you if you do
maximum likelihood
only the information contained in the
times spent when the receptor was
unbound. So when there was nothing these
durations of time are those that are
informative about concentration
the duration of of time that uh
something spends bound to the receptor
doesn't depend on concentration remember
and I showed you the the rates of the
receptor one of them has C in it the
other doesn't so this is showing up here
showing you it's showing you that um if
you wanted to extract the most
information from your signal you should
disregard the binding ing times only
look at the unbinding time. So the inter
arrival times and you calculate the
variance of this and you get something
very similar to Burke percell but now
there's a four instead of a two. Yes.
>> In a simple
you are either unbound or bound.
>> Yes.
>> So
the same information
is total time
or
>> um Is that simple?
>> That's true. But you
don't assume that at time t uh the
receptor knows exactly what time it is.
I'm having time t here
>> for the calculation.
>> Okay.
>> But this this is a good point. If you
assume you know time exactly, then the
two are equivalent.
>> But the receptor doesn't know what time
it is.
So if they don't then you are adding one
noisy thing that contains information
which is the unbound unbound time and
another term which doesn't contain
information which is the the bound time
here.
Um okay so the total time spent vacant
is what carries the information about
concentration in this simple model.
This is a checkpoint so I need I need to
see some hands over here. How are we
doing?
Okay, thank you.
Three, four.
>> Yes,
>> sure.
>> The times that you in the previous slide
are the sum of the unbounded times that
we
>> Yes.
>> One unbounded and another is just for
>> Yes.
Think about the bus stop. If you observe
the bus stop, you're trying to infer the
concentration of people around. You
observe it, no one comes, you conclude
that there aren't many people. But if
people stayed in the bus uh waiting for
the bus for a long time, that doesn't
tell you how many people there are. It
just tells you that the bus is slow,
right? That the bus is not arriving very
quickly. So you get different
information from different uh different
observables.
Okay, let's move on. So there's a lot of
content. So let's see. So remember this
guy um the log likelihood ratio for
SPRT. Now I'm going to show you that
these two things are actually two sides
of the same coin. Sequential hypothesis
testing on on the one hand. If you have
this log likelihood ratio, you take the
average over uh many realizations of
your data and you take the limit as
delta C goes to zero. So here I'm
parameterizing the distance between
hypothesis. So if you let your
hypothesis be very close to each other
and this is the regime where decisions
are difficult like you want to
distinguish two very close by levels of
concentration with noisy data in that
limit
this quantity uh becomes equal to uh
this thing over here which I'm going to
call f
and there's a result from the 1940s that
tells you that in general if you have an
estimate this is not an equality
actually this is should be an
an upper bound. Sorry, this should be an
upper bound.
The variance of any estimator is upper
bounded by the inverse of this quantity.
And now you see that these two things
come from different ways of framing the
problem. The first one comes from the
the the framework of you have two
hypotheses. You want to decide what they
are. The other one there's no notion of
hypothesis and there's no notion of
decision. Even there is the notion of
you want to infer something that you
don't observe. You come up with an
estimator. Your estimator is noisy.
What's the variance of this estimator?
No decision, no hypothesis, nothing. But
these two are related via this quantity
called Fisher information. Okay. Okay.
You can breathe. Take a deep breath
because there's going to be uh more
more content to come. Okay. So, in the
previous checkpoint, I didn't record,
but there were I think four raised
hands. So,
that's okay. It's okay if it's slow
because you're shy. Doesn't mean you're
not getting it. That's how I I think
about it. Okay. So,
so this part was kind of the background.
Um in our in our paper we we we talk a
little bit about this Fisher information
and the connection between these two
approaches
because many uh results in the
literature on biochemical sensing in in
in recent years have uh have either used
one framework or the other. So we were
just showing that you can just view them
as the same the underlying the same
thing. So,
um, I'm going to be doing, uh, what we
talked about, but with a slightly more
complicated model of the receptor. I've
been talking to you about a a receptor
with two states, which can be bound or
unbound. Now I'm going to show you a
model that has four states which is a
bit more realistic of how things
actually work and which captures
something uh interesting which is you
can have u transcription factor which is
the thing that you want to try to infer
the concentration of and RNA polymerase
which can be transcribing or not
transcribing. So now the notion of bound
and unbound is not the same as
transcribing and not transcribing. There
are four possibilities. You could either
be unbound
and I'm referring to bound refers to
transcription factor bound specifically.
Okay. So transcription factor can be
unbound. It can be bound but you're not
transcribing
because you need many proteins to come
together in order to initiate
transcription. So you could be in an
intermediate state where there's no
transcription. You could be transcribing
also without a transcription factor.
This can happen. you know you can have
RNA polymerase binding and starting to
do your your uh messenger RNA etc or you
can have both at the same time. So you
have a model where you cycle randomly
through these four states with certain
transition rates. So these transition
rates, the transition rate of binding
just like in the other model is going to
be proportional to concentration times a
base binding rate. And you have all the
other rates which are
uh unbinding the rate of of binding RNA
polymerase everything else in this four
state markoff chain which are also
limited uh by diffusion by by limited in
speed. So these are two important uh
things that I want to talk about which
is you cannot bind infinitely fast.
You're limited by diffusion. You can
also not unbind infinitely fast. These
constraints are a new ingredient that
we're adding to uh this study and we're
trying to do optimization over these
rates assuming that evolution has chosen
a model that's that's pretty good at
doing uh at doing this inference problem
but it's limited by the the constraints
of the biohysics. So that's what that's
what we're going to try to do. Uh I'll
tell you a bit more about that. So it's
okay if you're not not exactly it it'll
be clear in a few slides.
>> Yeah.
>> About the third street that you're
talking about. If you're not
>> about the third street that you're
talking
>> Yeah.
>> If you're not if there is no
transcription factor but still you
translating because of
polymerase.
>> Yeah.
But that that protein loses the signal,
right? It can be producing some other
protein, but that routine you're not
going to use for uh sensing that
particular transmission,
>> right? It it introduces noise. It's bad
for you.
>> Okay?
>> It's bad for you if you're transcribing
when nothing is bound. It's misleading
because you might think, well, is it due
to a transcription factor or not? I
don't know. And that's a that's a
essential feature of this model is that
typically there are hidden variables.
You can't observe your your mark of
process completely. You will observe
part of it and then what I'm going to
show you is how well you can do given
this. The the simplest example of a
partial partially observed process. So
your point is is a very good point
actually.
Okay.
So you can look at two different
observables. You can say well I can look
at just like in Berg per cell you count
the number of of uh transcripts.
So before we were counting binding
because binding and and transcription we
were assuming that they were the same
thing. Now we're separating the two. The
observable we're interested in is
transcription. So you observe
transcription. You don't know what's
happening with binding.
Otherwise you're back to the two-state
case. You assume you don't know that.
You observe transcription. You count.
Okay. And you see at time t uh which
also you assume you don't know uh how
many transcripts have we have we made
another observable is you you look at
the full history and you measure the
statistics of transcribing not
transcribing just like we were doing
before and we ask what is the difference
of using these two observables now with
the partially observed process. So
remember
uh there's a direct relationship. What
are we trying to do at the end? We're a
cell. We're trying to figure out we're
closer to the head of the embryo or the
tail of the embryo. We want to decide
uh where we are. Minimizing that
decision time is the same as maximizing
the fisher information rate
of this comes from uh this relationship
over here. So you minimize the decision
time, you maximize the drift. Remember
this was the drift. You make the drift
larger. This drift is exactly the Fisher
information. It's actually the rate. So
it's time derivative of this is the
drift. You want to make that as large as
possible. So that's our objective right
here.
So we're going to do this. This is just
another way to write the Fisher
information rate
F dot. Now because it's a time
derivative of this thing what I showed
you before, you can rewrite it as the
second derivative of the likelihood of
your observable either this one or that
one. uh given concentration with respect
to the log of concentration squared.
It's a it's just some algebra to show
that you can it's it's it's an
approximation first order approximation
to write it like this. Okay, we're going
to do this uh maximization subject to
the constraints that I told you about
which are diffusion and the speed of the
molecular processes. So all of these
rates are going to be constrained and
we're going to plug this into an
optimizer and we're going to see what
are the circuits that give us the
highest FER information and that are the
most sensitive to concentration. That's
that's the game we're going to be
playing here. So um we can write down
the likelihood for the for state case.
And it's interesting because it's it's
an example of dynamic programming. You
have um
you have the forward algorithm, but I
don't think we have time for that. So
I'm going to skip it. Maybe if we have
time we can do that later. Uh but what I
want you to know for now to take away is
you can't write down in general when you
have a more complicated system that you
don't observe fully you can't write down
your likelihood as a product of
marginalss like we did with the
two-state case. It was a product of
exponentials. Remember with four states
you can't do that.
Um but what you can do is what I'm not
going to do is you know use dynamic
programming.
Uh but right this is this is an
important thing to keep in mind. Um is
do you think this is clear?
>> Right. Um so remember here you have a
four state system and maybe I didn't
stress this enough. You're right. I
should have said what you're observing
is only
the
yaxis. These two states correspond to
when transcription is happening. So you
don't observe whether you're bound or
unbound. You only observe whether you're
transcribing or not transcribing.
So you can only distinguish one degree
of freedom of your system which has two
degrees of freedom. So that's what I
mean by partially observed. And assuming
you can do that, then the the likelihood
no longer factorizes. You have to do
dynamic programming to get your
likelihood etc.
Okay.
Is the statement kind just qualitatively
not not necessarily? Hands raised. Data
collection. Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6.
Good.
>> Can you go back to the
Can you go back to the slide where you
show? Yes.
So you going to be able to see the
observation.
No, that is trans.
>> Okay. No, no,
>> in the in the cell. That's a good
question. We've reviewers has have asked
us this like how does the cell keep
track of an entire history of binding?
Where does it record this information?
>> Is that assuming that can I observe it?
So I don't know what cells
>> can you observe it?
>> Yeah,
>> you can observe it. If you go if you go
to the bus stop with a notebook, you can
write down, okay, person arrived, person
left, how long did they stay? And you
keep track of all of this information.
And I'm I'm going to try to convince you
that if you do that that's and you do
this maximization you get a fissure rate
etc. This is the best you can do out of
any signal because this history of
transcription is all you have you don't
have more information than that. So if
you show bounds with this problem, even
if in reality cells can't do it, I mean
it's not very obvious how they would do
it, they will still be whatever they do
will be upper bounded by by this problem
where you have the full history. It's
it's a it's a question of design. It's a
question of would you assume you can
observe this but not that etc. So it's a
modeling u exercise depending on what
you want to do. Okay,
cool. So, so there's some prevailing
wisdom in the literature. People have
studied this for a long time. They say,
okay, if you want to be very sensitive
to concentration, you have your output
variable, which is transcription. You
can you can plot uh you can plot the
you can plot the average level of
transcription as a function of
concentration. So you do that on the
x-axis you have C. you increase C and
for this four-state system you start
observing it transcribing not
transcribing on average it's going to do
something like this you know above at
low concentrations not going to be
transcribing very much
this is transcription activity
average
transcription activity you get a sigmoid
at some point you start transcribing
more and more and then you saturate
you're transcribing all the time. So you
don't distinguish very much uh
concentrations here. Here you don't
really distinguish because if you
increase your concentration from here to
here, what you observe it's not going to
change by much. And here as well, but
here you're going to have a large
sensitivity.
And ideally what people what people say
is you want the slope to be as high as
as possible. There's been um studies
about the maximum slope for equilibrium
models. This is a problem with a long
history. So in the literature you'll
find people saying yeah you always want
to maximize sharpness. Another thing
people talk about is cooperivity. Now
you can extend the model where you have
many binding sites not just one and you
can have the effect of cooperivity where
multiple molecules bind and then they
initiate transcription and this can
somehow give you a sharper uh activation
curve. Another thing is you can have
things that bind that are not related to
what you're interested in. Right? Like
you mentioned, you could have there's
many proteins in the cell and some other
things can bind to your receptor. Um,
and they're not giving you information
about what you want, which is this
specific protein. And how how does this
hurt your estimation? You know, how well
can you do in the presence of of
spurious uh binding, etc.
And if you're at equilibrium, obviously
things in the cell, you know, dissipate
energy. Molecular processes uh use ATP,
you know, entropy is produced. So if you
assume everything's happening at
equilibrium, how does this affect your
your sensing ability? Are you are you
less sharp? Does this become uh you know
more dull or what happens, etc.
And I'm going to show you that all of
these the answer to all of these is it
depends. It's not always true.
So uh first sharpness. So our first
result is we we we played this game. We
said okay we we have a model. There are
rates eight parameters. We have an
objective function which is FER
information rate. Maximize this
objective function and look at the
solutions.
We have two observables. Remember we
have the one where you observe uh
accumulated mRNA and the one where you
look at the full history. So if you look
at observable two accumulated mRNA this
is the solution. This is the circuit
that gives you the highest sensitivity
and this circuit kind of behaves like
what I showed you. This is the the color
scale is many different concentrations.
Uh so if if you want to so if if you
want to distinguish here this
concentration C uh prime for example and
you you optimize your model for this
specific concentration the curve is
going to look like this. It's going to
adjust itself so that it's very
sensitive here. It's like when you walk
into a dark room your eyes will adjust
so that you can distinguish objects you
know small differences in brightness.
But if you go back outside, you get
saturated. So this is kind of the same
effect. You get adaptation here.
Um so this is what you're seeing is is
adaptation to different concentrations.
This is what the solution looks like.
Now observable one, you look at the full
history of transcription. The optima
look different. They're not doing the
same thing. So first thing I want to uh
draw your attention to is these curves
are not trying to maximize sharpness.
they're trying to maximize something
else. What they're trying to maximize is
the availability of the receptor. So now
using this other observable is there's a
different strategy. What you want is to
keep your observ your your receptor your
receptor free as much time as you can
because when it's free is when you can
uh actually do sensing. When it's
occupied we're assuming that if there
was another molecule that comes it can't
bind so you don't detect it. So these
are two different strategies that are
modulo the observable you choose. So
what is it doing dynamically speaking?
This is what the receptor looks like.
It's binding and then it's starting
transcription and then the transcription
factor is unbinding then transcription
is uh stopping again. So what this is
trying to do is it it's trying to make
the coupling between binding and
transcription as high as possible.
Trying to make them as indistinguishable
as possible. Every time you have a
binding event, you transcribe. So, it's
trying to approach the two-state system
as much as possible. The other circuit
is not. It's trying to do something
else. So, we thought that was
interesting.
Um,
>> yes,
>> in the previous
what does the the color bar represent?
>> The color bar, right? The color bar
represents the the concentration
that you are optimizing for.
Right? So it represents the
concentration that you want to
distinguish if your system is above or
below that. So if you have a specific
concentration, your curve will go like
this. If you make it higher, it'll go
like this, etc., etc.
And the curve itself is well in the real
world in an actual environment if you
subject this optimal circuit to many
different concentrations give you a
curve. And this is what the curve looks
like. So there's two two concentrations
we're distinguishing here. The one you
optimize for and the one you you
actually are subjected to.
>> What are those reds in the
>> Yes, I should have I should have removed
them because it's not really relevant
for the talk. So this is these are the
this is just the act level of activity.
So level of transcription
at the concentration that you're you're
you're optimized for. So so they
represent this point
right so you optimize for C star
uh you optimize for C star. The red dot
is is just the the transcription
activity at C star, right? So at low
concentration, you're mostly not
transcribing, of course, because there's
nothing to transcribe. And as you
increase concentration, you reach kind
of the the this point in the curve,
which by the way, for this observable is
not the point of highest sharpness. Here
it is, but here it's not. That was kind
of a takeaway. uh from this result. So
>> this
consideration for the how are you
knowing that it maximizility you have to
look at the network structure.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. We just we interpreted the
solutions uh after having run them
through the through the procedure. Can
you say briefly what is availability?
>> Availability is the amount of time that
the that the receptor spends unbound.
>> Uh sorry uh yeah unbound and not
transcribing.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So just
intuitively does this make sense to you?
The fact that if you have an activation
curve you want to sense concentration as
best as possible.
uh with the counting observable at least
without doing maximum likelihood just if
you have access to an average uh
accumulated transcription level you you
change small um you make a small change
in concentration
you make the largest change in in the
output when you're at the point of
highest slope does this
does this make sense to you intuitively
>> yes it makes sense but I also have
problem with it being noisy because if
you are fluctuating a bit from here and
there then you would switch your
behavior entirely.
>> Exactly.
>> It's not stable in some sense. That's an
excellent point and actually that's a
that's a great point and there is a
result in a recent paper that that was
able to obtain the Fisher information
rate F dot for this observable for the
observable
uh of accumulated mRNA they have an
analytical equation for it uh expression
it's the sharpness
so This is the slope of the curve.
Uh it's not exactly it's not exactly
sharpness. I'm going to tell you divided
by v dot and s is equal to c * the
partial derivative of p with respect to
c. So this is the slope
multiplied by c. This is s. So this is
the fuller rate. It's equal to this s²
divided by v dot. and v dot is equal to
1 / t
uh limit of the variance of t on.
So t on is the time the total time you
spend transcribing
the variance of that as you said is a
measure of how noisy this curve is. So
this curve is going to be noisy
and it's in the denominator. So the
noisier the curve the lower your
efficient information for information.
So this is great intuition actually what
you have to do. You can't write down uh
an expression like this for the full
observable case. So we do mark of chain
Monte Carlo and we do our optimization
like that.
>> What?
>> Sorry
>> information what?
>> It implies a slower decision. It implies
it implies two things. It implies your
sensing is uh more noisy. So the
variance of your estimate is larger
>> and as a consequence you make it you
take longer to make a decision.
Okay.
So observables matter in two words what
I'm trying to say which which what are
you observing it it changes what your
optimum strategy looks like.
uh this is a plot of the actual fissure
information rate on the y-axis
uh maximized. So this the optimal rate
as a function of concentration. So when
you're at low concentration you're
limited by the diffusion
uh of of of molecules you know molecules
arrive this slope is
uh proportional to C and to D is the
diffusion coefficient. So here you're
limited by really rare binding events.
You cannot do better than that. Uh once
you reach a certain threshold, you no
longer become limited by binding events
because there's a lot of binding events.
Instead, you're limited by the speed at
which you deactivate at at which you
stop transcribing which is uh encoded by
this uh this line over here.
Okay. And the dash line represents what
you do with the second observable
accumulated mRNA observable. The solid
line is with the full full trajectory.
Yes.
>> Does the color of the arrows mean
something in the
>> uh yes. It just means which constraint
they're satis they're saturating. That's
a good that's a very good question. So
black arrows
means that these are saturating the
diffusion constraint because these black
arrows represent binding of
transcription factor. So in the in the
optimum scenario the rate should be as
large as you're allowing it to be. It it
saturates the constraint. The the purple
arrows are saturating another constraint
which is the one of well once you're
bound you cannot start transcribing
infinitely fast. So there's also a limit
on that.
So these are very good questions. Okay,
two binding sites. Now you have a more
slightly more complicated model. You
have two. So this is your piece of DNA.
You have uh two binding sites where
transcription factor can bind and then
you have RNA polymerase that can come
and start transcribing mRNA. two binding
sites means you your circuit now looks
like this.
You can bind one thing and then you can
bind another thing and then you can
start transcribing. We we play the same
game. What optimi what maximizes fissure
uh information? Uh at low concentration
this is what solutions look like. At
high concentration they look like this.
What does this mean? This means
here nothing is bound. The receptor is
free. Here, one binding site is bound.
Here, two binding sites are bound, but
we're still not transcribing. And then
you activate transcription. You produce
mRNA. Then you unbind. You unbind. And
then you go back to the first state. So
this is what people refer to when they
talk about cooperivity. So things
cooperate in order to they only initiate
transcription when they're both bound
together. So they have a a cooperative
effect. This is only true at high
concentration. These are optimal
solutions. again. So this uh what comes
out of our our our procedure at low
concentration you don't need
cooperivity. You actually need the
opposite. You need to keep things free
as as much as possible so you can
measure as many things. So three binding
sites also the same effect happens.
Now selectivity you have other things
that are binding to your transcription
factor. You can tr sorry to your
receptor. You can I'm not going to go
into the details of these circuits but
it's the same idea. uh if something else
binds on your on your receptor and it
doesn't if it's not informative of what
you're trying to measure, it's not
informative of concentration of this
specific molecule. Uh should your
receptor still let it bind some of the
time or should it not? If you exclude
all the things that are not related to
what you want to measure, does this hurt
your your sens your your Fisher
information, right, your decision time?
The answer is yes. So if you play this
game, you you find that so this this
plot shows you on the y-axis
how selective you are. So how harshly
you discriminate against incorrect
binding uh and on the x-axis is the
concentration of the intruders the
spirious binding things. So the maximum
possible selectivity you can be is this
dashed line and the minimum possible
selectivity is the dotted line. The
optimum is somewhere in between. So it's
not optimal to be as permissive as
possible. Everyone comes in and we can
still do sensing. This hurts your
sensing. Nor is it better to be as harsh
as possible. So it's a Goldilock zone.
And obviously this depends on on the
architecture of the receptor. You could
come up with receptors that have proof
reading that you know have multiple
stages of making sure it's the right
one. This is a very big topic by the
way. Proof reading uh it was introduced
by Hopfield in the 1970s. I am actually
not sure of that but I think it's true.
Late 60s or 70s I forgot. Anyway, so uh
take away the most selective circuit
isn't necessarily the one that decides
fastest on concentration. Does this make
sense to people?
>> Again, what happens if it's
>> right exactly? If it's very selective,
you might be excluding the thing you're
interested in also.
So obviously this depends on on the
architecture of your of your receptor.
We're assuming you only have one binding
site. If you're very selective, that
means you're trying to make the
incorrect binding go to zero.
But you can't really do that
independently of making the correct
binding go to zero as well.
assuming this again assuming this
particular model of receptors
which people use typically. So this is
why we're we're using it. It's not
because it's uh it's the most performant
thing you can do as an engineer. You
know you're starting with models that
are typically used in biohysics and say
okay how well do these things do.
Obviously if you wanted to design it
yourself you wouldn't design it this
way. you could come up with a way that
that correctly distinguishes things at
at the cost of more complexity and maybe
more uh energy dissipation etc. On the
topic of energy dissipation so I need I
need some I need some raised hands here.
Okay. 1 2 3 4 5
Okay, six. Thank you.
There's one checkpoint left.
So, uh, myths partially busted, not
completely busted, but it's it's nuance.
Our paper is basically 15 pages of it
depends. So, if you're interested and
you can read about it, the last thing I
want to tell you before we go is and
before we try the the the Python script,
I don't know if it's going to work, is
okay, if you want to make your your your
decision as fast as possible, how much
energy do you dissipate? Well, this is
this is the answer. Your Fisher
information rate of your optimal circuit
on the y-axis, entropy production on the
x-axis. Now, we were we're constraining
we're doing the same maximization but
with a constraint on energy. So, if I
force my energy to be zero, we're at
equilibrium. This is how well we do. So,
observable two, observable one, uh entry
production is zero. So, we're at
equilibrium. Then if you relax this
constraint progressively and you repeat
the same game, you get a parto curve
which takes you which jumps immediately
from equilibrium to a non-equilibrium
solution and you saturate at very high
entropy production. um over here and
from from the previous lectures at this
school you should kind of have an
intuition as some of some of you should
have spotted right uh that this is this
is a circuit that produces a lot of
entropy. Can you tell me why just from
looking at it?
Is it intuitive?
most uniform
>> uniform.
>> So the states are uniform.
>> This would be the maximum entropy of the
state distribution.
That's that's correct. But what I'm
talking about is entropy production
which is a different uh which is
different quantity. It's related to
that. There's a missing there's a
missing term which is heat.
Uh so right so in in intuitively you can
think about it as whenever you have
entropy production in a system there
must be an irreversible cycle happening
somewhere. There must be a cycle of
states of of your dynamical states that
is going more in the clockwise direction
than the counterclockwise direction. Why
is that? Because you know very sketchy
calculation that makes no sense. But
you have a trajectory that goes like
this. Take the ratio of that
in reverse time. It's going to be
uh it's going to that that ratio is
going to be you know pretty far from
one. And so the entropy production you
get here is related to uh e to the minus
what is it I forgot anyway I'm not going
to write down something I'm not sure of
but anyway
just visually whenever you see a cycle
entropy is being produced.
Okay, I've uh tortured you enough. This
is the paper. You can check it out if
you're interested. It just got out on
PRX Live. So now it's it's time for
results.
So I have this little script here.
Um
I have a script that that implements
this likelihood ratio I I showed you
earlier.
So this is I I tried it on simulated
data yesterday but just to see. So what
do we have? Oh, there was one more
checkpoint.
No,
most sensitive circuits are far from
equity. Okay, I'm going to just ignore
that. So we only have four data points.
7 4 6
7 4 6 N is 17. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 Okay, n is 15. P shy is
28. That's
is 0.28.
And I'm going to measure if you're more
lost, more than 55% of you are lost or
less than 45% of you are lost.
So let's see.
Okay. inconclusive.
I would need to talk for like 10 more
hours to be sure.
But that's okay. I guess I guess even in
that case, you kind of have an intuition
for how this thing works. So you could
also if you really had nothing else to
do and had no exam tomorrow, you could
calculate the Fisher rate of you. You
could because we wrote down a
likelihood, you could take an an
expectation, say, how good are you at at
judging? How how good is a crowd of
people at measuring uh you know
collective understanding or something
like that? Yeah. Anyway, thank you very
much.
Okay, let's thank T. Uh do you have
questions?
>> Thank you.
Um sorry I don't know if it's uh
maybe it's a silly question on this h
you say that h you use the dynamic
programming to uh find the the results
you you got so you are modeling as
agents in some in some way that takes
decision making right so have a policy
and the trying to find the the best
policy
>> not necessarily Okay.
>> You don't need the policy to do dynamic
programming. It's more general than
that.
>> Okay. Uh yeah, but uh was in the in the
sense that
uh you uh the the agents or in this case
the h the process of binding.
>> Mhm. H to the decide on binding or not
is like I don't know um have to some
some kind of decision but actually in in
like in biology terms they have already
a decision or how is the the path to to
to say that this there are the a
decision making process or is just a a
natural process that emerges.
>> I see. So you're asking what is a
decision really bi biologically?
>> Yes. Yes.
>> Uh this is a good question and you could
define it many ways. You could define it
as a gene has been expressed or a gene
has not been expressed. It depends on
where you stop considering your system.
Right?
>> A decision can be even upstream of that.
There could be a Maxwell demon like an
abstract observer that just looks at the
process and in principle can decide at a
specific time t. That doesn't
necessarily mean that the cell is doing
that
>> uh mechanistically.
Uh so that's kind of the point of the
talk. The point of of my talk is to talk
about optimal optimal
um bounds and not really ask the
question of like in reality in biology
how does this happen because uh there's
a lot of interesting things and anytime
in biology a biohysicist comes with a
model the the the response is it's more
complicated than that you know you
obviously have a hundred other things
happening so I'm not going to deal with
with that uh thing but that's a very
good it.
>> Okay.
>> So, we're talking about in principle
what's the best you can do without
asking what is actually done.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you.
>> Sure.
>> Other questions? Don't be shy as we
learned.
>> Great. So, let's thank T again for
>> Thank you. Go study or have fun. I don't
know. Whatever you want to do.