How Male Feminists Ruined It For Everyone - Louise Perry & Mary Harrington

Duration: 10:01 1899 transcript words EN summary

Video summary

The podcast features a discussion between Louise Perry and Mary Harrington regarding the emergence of what they term "performative males," a demographic that has quickly become subject to satire within feminist discourse. This archetype is characterized by specific aesthetic markers such as floppy hair, oversized flared jeans, tote bags featuring Labubu figures, and holding Matcha drinks. The speakers suggest this figure represents an evolution or reworking of the "sneaky [__]" male strategy from previous decades, akin to a modernized version of the 1970s anti-masculine but sexually opportunistic man who embraced long hair and free love while dodging military service. Unlike earlier iterations that were overtly aggressive, this new phenotype strips away raw masculinity in favor of an "HR-friendly" presentation designed to appear non-threatening yet remain reproductively viable for women. A significant portion of the conversation addresses the complex relationship between male feminism and sexual misconduct, specifically referencing a past article by Mary Harrington about male feminists who subsequently became accused of being "#MeToo sex pests." The speakers note that while specific names were removed from earlier reports due to rumors lacking sufficient evidence, the underlying pattern remains strong enough to be recognized as a distinct phenomenon. They argue that these "performative males" may have internalized the idea that overt aggression is synonymous with patriarchy and figures like Andrew Tate, leading them to adopt softer, more consensual-seeming behaviors. However, this shift appears driven by consumerism rather than genuine ideological change, creating a new aesthetic where men signal their progressive alignment through items like Labubu merchandise while potentially engaging in manipulative mating tactics under the guise of being "soft boys." The dialogue also touches upon an ecological economist's book on care and maintenance within the economy, which offers insights into how modern liberal society views gender relations. The author discusses Daphne du Maurier's novels, noting a tension where female characters are portrayed as both vulnerable to male violence and sexually aroused by it—a nuance that challenges straightforward feminist critiques of patriarchy. This literary analysis serves as a backdrop for understanding the psychological state of men who feel distressed by aggressive masculine dispositions but struggle with the reality that their own "soft" presentation might still be rooted in evolutionary or strategic adaptation rather than pure altruism. The speakers question whether this new male phenotype represents genuine progress or simply a sophisticated camouflage that allows men to navigate knowledge-class environments without triggering social backlash, effectively medicalizing and pathologizing those who do not conform to these subdued standards. The conversation concludes with the hosts reflecting on the broader implications of this demographic shift for dating dynamics and societal health. They speculate whether the prevalence of "Labubu males" contributes to a decline in sexual encounters among women, suggesting that society may be missing necessary polarity between masculine and feminine energies. The speakers express concern that while these men successfully avoid appearing threatening or aggressive—thereby satisfying modern social expectations—they might still be operating within old evolutionary frameworks adapted for a new environment. Ultimately, the discussion highlights the irony of a generation of men who have been conditioned to reject traditional masculinity only to adopt a consumerist aesthetic that functions as its own form of performative identity, leaving observers unsure if this represents true liberation or just another layer of strategic social signaling in 2025.

Read the full video transcript

performative males. Uh it it's a call out. It's been very interesting. The trend emerged and almost immediately became kind of castigated. You know, like woke had an opportunity to be a legitimate term before it was a satirical term. Performative males have almost immediately become satarized. Performative male is a guy with floppy hair, sort of oversized flared jeans. He's got a tote bag. He's reading some sort of literary fiction. He's got a matcher. He's not quite like a cinnamon roll boyfriend husband thing. Is this not just the new soy boy? >> Maybe. It might be kind of like an elevated hipster uh like a a soft boy archetype perhaps from sort of the late 2010s. Um, it might be the equivalent of women wearing like football shirts or Pink Floyd t-shirts or like kind of like the male imagine the male equivalent of a pickme, >> but it's stripped of most of the um raw aggressive kind of more mascul more doineering. >> So, so let me like if I were to speculate, I would say this is the kind of guy who might employ the sneaky [ __ ] mating strategy. >> So, this is why this is why it's become I think immediately satarized. I think it's >> of course knows what I mean. >> It's poorly It's poorly hidden poorly hidden pliable male mating tactics being called out very quickly. >> Actually, interestingly, I'm not sure how well this maps to performative males. But I remember discovering how very very interestedly discovering just how high the proportion is of male feminists who who subsequently end up being me too as sex pests. >> I remember writing this piece. >> Yeah, I think the library four paragraphs. Yes. >> Because because they weren't sufficiently well because they were just rumors and it was just um yeah I think >> allegedly allegedly we must remember that allegedly >> they they gutted the article but really the pattern is is strong enough that even if you don't name names it's it's a thing. >> Um so so these guys are they're sort of droopy and feminized in presentation. flaccid flaccid man >> at least in presentation >> the heterosexual >> heterosexual but >> heterosexual and the performative males being this I think it's >> is it the one guy who comes to Pilates with you and then just like tries tries to hit >> we're getting close there we're getting perilously close to like what would have been the sneaky [ __ ] male feminist the performative male I think it's it's as much an aesthetic as anything else so it's it might be the aesthetic basically it might just be a rework of the aesthetic of the sneaky [ __ ] >> what does he what does he eat. >> I'm not too sure. I'm not too sure what you'll be what you be reading. Yasmin. >> She laughs. >> She she's she's she's my source of of sneaky [ __ ] info cuz she's in she's in LA. Um but it would be it would be him sort of matcher and he's the male embodiment of a matcher drink. >> So >> does he win Sarah J. Mas? I think this is what I'm trying to >> maybe >> figure out. What it reminds me of is the ' 70s when you had the the men simultaneously embracing long hair and free love and whatever and being quite feminine and and you know dodging the draft and stuff. So on the one hand being anti-masculine but then fully embracing the postexual revolution opportunity to get women into bed and and feminists at the time complained about this. What it sounds like though is that the performative male adds a layer of like consumerism >> which is quite distinctively 2025. Is that right? >> I think I think you've nailed it. Yeah. With the tote bag, with the dress, with the hair. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what on his bag? >> Probably almost certainly Lubu. Actually, that's a better way to put it. If you could find a Lubu with a matcher, it's Lubu males. Yes. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. >> Amazing. Yeah. Um, I mean I one of the one of the sort of depressive depressing thoughts that crossed my mind the other day, you know, when you think about these sort of like the the this sort of noodle armed male phenotype, you know, with a labubu on his bag and um a matcher in his hand and and maybe he actually literally does read Sarah J. Mass. Um, and I I think about them and you think about, you know, do I do do I need to wait a little? >> It's okay. I just the way that you the way that you construct sentences. I can't keep a straight face. It's [ __ ] brilliant. Okay, go on. >> But I mean, you know, these these kind of this stop. >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so the boou guys um what if in fact they're more evolutionarily fit in terms in the context of what they [ __ ] adapted to the new environment. >> That's what I mean. Because it's like when you think about when you think about the kind of work that everyone actually does now and when you think about the kind of social environments that particularly knowledge class people of either sex have to operate within actually being the kind of high tea aggressive um >> you're not sitting still in class >> not sitting you know those guys get medicalized and pathized basically because they they they don't work in open plan offices. question on this. Is this as close as a man can get to being female whilst still being reproductively viable for females to find attractive? >> Yeah. But >> and given that females have got this advantage so socioeconomically in the education and in the workplace, this is like >> the new it's it's and also I want to talk about me too at some point today. I wonder if this is the sort of postme too acceptable what men think even though incorrectly I've been told do not be doineering. Do not be too forthcoming. to not be somebody that could make women feel uh threatened in any way. What's the least threatening? Laboo, tote bag, floppy hair, >> uh match a drink. >> Very HR friendly. >> Yeah. And I do I do get the imp like there's a lot of there's a lot of guys particularly those who are sort of you know socialized into the more sort of progressive kind of thought world who genuinely feel uh very distressed by by the sort of heighty aggressive male disposition. I was I just finished reading a book. I mean, it's a it's a good book, very interesting um piece of work by an ecological economist um on on care and the the sort of Cinderella economy as he as he puts it um of care and maintenance and you know systemic health and environmental and environmental sustainability and so on which he sees as being again striped, exploited and you know ultimately exhausted by the the the the re the quote unquote real economy that we now have. And in it he has a whole chapter about the patriarchy which I just found a really interesting read from a guy who's you know he's he's he's a successful guy and he's got um adult children and you know he's obviously you know sporty and fit and intelligent well read and so on. So like you know perfectly manly man within the terms of you know modern uh respectable liberal society. Um but he's furious about the patriarchy lit you know and he's and what and the the passage I found most interesting is he he has a little discussion about Daphne Demorier's novels um and Jamaica in particularly and Rebecca and he talks you know his reading of of Daphne Demorier is as is as a feminist you know that it's a critique of gend of gender relations between the sexes you know and particularly of you know the the chronic kind of sus vulnerability of women to male violence um but at one point he not he observes that that Jimier's female characters are both vulnerable to male violence and also kind of turned on by it. He doesn't quite put it up. He doesn't quite put it like that, but there's obviously a real ambivalence in the way she writes and he doesn't know how to process it. And I find that really interesting just in the context of thinking about how how the the the Leubu man presents. You know, I'm not suggesting that the the author of this book is a Labou man. He's a he's a he's he's not quite that. But but there's something really interesting going on there about um you know guys who've internalized the idea that to be a d a straightforwardly aggressive man in a style in in in a perhaps quote unquote old-fashioned style or more overtly patriarchal is bad and that puts you in continuity with Andrew Tate and other people who are bad obviously by definition. Um, and therefore we must be something which is softer and more uh consensual and more kind of labubu-ish or I don't know something. >> Circling back to Chris's opening question, is it possible that everyone's having less sex because of the labu may >> but seriously like maybe crossed my mind sometimes. >> We need more polarity. >> Before we continue, if your sleep's not right, you're taking ages to nod off waking up at random times and feeling groggy in the morning. Momentous's sleep hacks are here to help. They're not your typical knock you out supplement overloaded with melatonin. Just the most evidence-based ingredients at perfect doses to help you fall asleep more quickly, stay asleep throughout the night, and wake up feeling more rested and revitalized in the morning. I'm banking on you not being able to hit me. That's why I take these every single night, especially when I'm on the road, and why I trust Momentous with my life. All right. Okay, there we go. Or at least my sleep. Because they make the highest quality supplements on the planet. What you see in the on the label is what's in the product and absolutely nothing else. And if you're still unsure, they've got a 30-day money back guarantee. So, you can buy it and try it every night for 29 nights. 30 nights in fact. And if you don't like it for any reason, they will give you your money back. That's how confident they are that you'll love it. Plus, they ship internationally. Right now, you can get 35% He's run out of ammo. Right now, you can get 35% off your first subscription and that 30-day money back guarantee by heading to livemomentous.com/martwisdom code modernwisdom at checkout. That's lie mus.com/modern wisdom and modern wisdom at checkout. Thank you very much for tuning in. Ooh, a tasty morsel of a conversation for you there. Well, full meal available right here. Come on, press