How Jesus Set Me Free From The Bondage Of Addiction & Brokenness | The Glory Hour

you were and you know, standing tennis player and then that was a lot of your identity was wrapped into that but then as you know, you were trying to like seek up acceptance there was certain friends you got involved with and it led you down into this really dark road of just addiction and bondage. >> The pressure of being an athlete began really young and I remember being on the tennis court and just having these tormenting thoughts of like if you fail, you lose your sponsors, you lose the accolades, you lose the affirmation, you lose all of this and so my identity was founded on a very shaky foundation. And so yeah, I began that um battle with identity which led me into years in middle school where I began trying to numb those voices and those feelings of worthlessness and abandonment. I just started feeling these feelings and to numb it I began drinking um starting as young as the age of eighth grade summer before ninth grade really like just I kind of had the personality I don't know if you're this way but I kind of went all out in everything. It's like if I'm going to play a sport I'm going pro. If I'm going to drink I'm going to drink every day um and to you know, to numb those voices instead of using the authority in the word of God to silence the accuser I used alcohol um and that began my journey of addiction was summer before ninth grade. Hey family, I'm so grateful you're joining me for the glory hour and one thing I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, it is such an amazing opportunity that I have to bring people to you have tremendous testimonies how God has radically transformed their life because I truly believe when we listen to the stories of others it does something deep within us. It frees us, it releases us and it also heals us and the Holy Spirit unlocks something really beautiful inside of us too. And I'm really grateful to have with us Caitlin Hawk as our guest for the glory hour today. She's a speaker, an author, a realtor, a wife, and a mother who encountered God's love and discovered her identity during her battle with drug addiction, and she dealt with bondages and all these things. But, she met the powerful savior, the redeemer, the lamb of God, and she is truly her story and her testimony is that scripture we say we overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And so, Caitlyn, it is such an honor to have you with us on The Glory Hour today. >> Well, I am so honored to be here and tell of the power of the resurrected king. So, I'm looking forward to this. So, thank you for having me. >> Oh, you're welcome, Caitlyn. And just when you say about the power of the resurrected king, because you know about the resurrection first-hand of what it looks like to be in such a place of desperation feeling like you can't go out, but when you meet Jesus, he changes everything. >> That's right. I um I wrote a book and we'll talk more about it, I'm sure, but um it the book is called Overcomer Overcome. And um I when we get into the discussion, I'm just going to go through a ton of my weaknesses so that people can be um at a place where they hear of his power and his ability to restore um and none of it was of my own accord or based off of a human. So, I can't I just can't wait to tell my story and get into it. So, yeah. >> So, let's like dive into your story because I mean, I had the opportunity to read through her book, and it was so touching, and I just want to say, Caitlyn, I just really appreciate your rawness, your authenticity, and your transparency. Like, you keep it all the way real. So, let's dive in. And I mean, I really I really appreciate it cuz that's that's where we find freedom is being, you know, revealing some of the darkest things, but we know the light of Jesus can conquer all of that. >> Right. Right. I really told um my publisher, he actually happened to be a friend of mine from Abilene, Texas. That's where I'm originally from. That's where all my bondage what took place was in my hometown of Abilene Texas and um I told him in the beginning of writing this book. I was like, you know, I feel called to break off religion over this generation and um I feel called to just expose every area where I was weak and like Paul says, so that the glory of Christ may rest on me. I'll boast of my weakness and I told him I said, "I don't want this prettied up. I want people in the churches to read this and I want people on the streets to read this." And so um that was my goal in writing this book is to give my testimony and call forth the church while also calling forth the broken and the addicted. So. >> So, let's dive into it because you were raised in the church, but even before then like um one thing that you were actually adopted. >> Right. Right. So, I I was actually adopted from birth. Um my birth mother was 19 when she had me and my birth father was 22, I believe. And um actually the war over my life began in the womb. My birth father tried to convince my birth mother to abort me. Um and I read through my adoption file about uh probably 5 years ago and it was I was reading about the battle over my life um starting in the womb when I didn't have a voice and um my birth father, he was pretty adamant that my birth mother abort me, but luckily my birth mother chose life and pushed through that and I'm I'm so grateful. Um but yeah, I grew up in the church. I I went to um a Baptist church, which I personally don't understand denominations. I'm non-denominational. Um I understand the kingdom and so I grew up in a church that was um they were great people, but I was never taught about my identity in Christ. I was never taught about spiritual warfare. I was never taught about overcoming and and what the power of the cross actually accomplished. And so in scripture it says, "My people perish for lack of knowledge." And so because of that lack of knowledge, I went down a very dark path of addiction and I can get more into that. But yeah, I grew up in the church and um you know, I I tell my husband all the time um I wished looking back that I had had something to read or hear about that was real and raw and vulnerable when I was struggling cuz I just felt like I had to have it all together and I didn't have the capacity to do that. So, yeah. >> And then one thing, you know, when I was reading through Overcomer Overcome with your story that really stuck out is that you were and uh you know, standing tennis player and then that was a lot of your identity was wrapped into that, but then as, you know, you were trying to like seek up acceptance, there was certain friends you got involved with and it led you down into this really dark road of just addiction and bondage and just like hate against yourself cuz you're like, "How did I get here?" So, can you just share about that path that you went down? >> Yeah. Yeah, like you said, um I was always gifted athletically as a young girl and um I don't think looking back my coaches and my parents really understood what I was battling with mentally as an athlete because they saw me performing on a tennis court or other sports and I had the potential to go pro. It was pretty evident early on that as young as even as the age of 12 was kind of 11 and 12 is when I kind of began my journey of training to go on the junior pro tour and um I began getting sponsored by Wilson and Adidas and you know, just playing in national tournaments and you know, when you're that young and you have all these people surrounding you, you know, gloating over you and telling you how great you are, you really start to feel that fear of failure because you're like, "Well, if I can't perform for them, then I'm going to lose love. I'm going to lose acceptance." And so, the pressure of being an athlete began really young and I remember being on the tennis court and just having these tormenting thoughts of like if you fail, you lose your sponsors, you lose the accolades, you lose the affirmation, you lose all of this. And so my identity was founded on a very shaky foundation. And that foundation is still offered by the enemy in multiple ways. It's always putting He always tries to get us to put our identity in something that can actually fade away. It's not an eternal identity. And so yeah, I began that um battle with identity which led me into years in middle school where I began trying to numb those voices and those feelings of worthlessness and abandonment. I just started feeling these feelings and to numb it, I began drinking. Um starting as young as the age of eighth grade, summer before ninth grade, really like just I kind of had the personality, I don't know if you're this way, but I kind of went all out in everything. It's like if I'm going to play a sport, I'm going pro. If I'm going to drink, I'm going to drink every day. Um and to you know, to numb those voices instead of using the authority in the word of God to silence the accuser, I used alcohol. Um and that began my journey of addiction was summer before ninth grade. >> And when I remember like reading that, I was I mean I want It's like sometimes I think it's like shock, but I know other people was like that same age, you know, just like very young and then it's not just like alcohol, but the the doors just keep opening up. And then there was a point where it was really scary at 16 years old where you actually you overdosed? >> Mhm. Yeah, I um I actually ended up um I actually ended up going to a rehab my freshman year because the drinking got so bad and I stopped going to school. I was suic- I had suicidal ideations frequently. I just was not able to function because of how quickly my addiction took off and how rebellious I was at that time. Like I had no grid that your choices have consequences. I know that sounds insane looking back, but I really didn't understand that concept. Like like the Bible talks about, do not be deceived. Whatever you sow, you will reap. If you sow into the flesh, you'll reap destruction. Sow into the spirit, you reap life and peace. And so, I because of my I I don't know if it's just my personality or wiring or risk-taker nature, I was just kind of getting bored with just alcohol and I was like, you know, when I got out of that first rehab that I went to, my ninth grade year, it was great and it was safe and luckily, you know, I didn't I didn't kill myself or someone else and I was in a safe place. The only issue was when I got out of that rehab, I was cloaked in so much shame and I didn't know who I was still. Because, you know, rehabs, a lot of them mean really well, but if they don't answer your identity question at the core root with the gospel, you never get free. And so, I had all these tools to change my behavior, I would say, but as soon as I graduated from there, I went back into my hometown and that's where I spiraled even worse because you have to understand, and a lot of people can relate to this that have been through rehab, when you go through rehab, people that you go back to, especially in high school, they see you as a screw up, you know? And so, you try to re-enter society, but it's hard because you feel this shame of like, I don't have anything together and everyone knows it. And so, because I felt this intense shame, I isolated and then I began getting on pills. And um like you said, there was one night where um I ended up going to a party and I think I took like six Xanax and I had also smoked and drank and smoked pot and I was on Adderall and um my friend my parents found me in the entryway of our house and I I had passed out and was throwing up and um they took me to the hospital and they I was told they told my parents, she's either going to be brain dead or die because of the amount of barbiturates in her system. And you know, that began that began a lot of my downfall at even a higher level, I would say, of feeling shame and just feeling hopeless. >> You know, yeah, Caitlyn this is like cuz I've been around people like like similar stories and past it's like and if you haven't been there, you don't necessarily understand it, but something that stood out and struck out to me about your story is I couldn't imagine like I you know, people I talked they they were adults like you know, trying to get coming back into the world and everybody knows going on, but you're in high school where there's so much pressure and people looking at you and they think you're in the standard and you're dealing with the weight of all that. It was really heartbreaking and something that also that you were really transparent about that I appreciated is that talking about how you were they put you in the psych ward. >> Mhm. >> And just you talk a little bit about like you're very open about your experience there. >> Yeah. Yeah, I really really wanted to be open about that because it is really hard when you're that age, when you're trying to fit in and figure out who you are and you know, you have all these especially where I was from, I grew up with the same friends and friend group and I'll you know, to paint you a picture, a lot of them came from very affluent families and they were all, you know, honor society, going to Young Life, preparing for college early on and I was, you know, so to say I felt like an absolute failure and outcast is an understatement. I I felt like I couldn't even function going down the high school halls because of the shame and you know, guilt I felt. Kind of like the woman at the well, I'd try to do things where no one was around at certain times and isolate and go in the tennis locker room for lunch. I just I couldn't deal with the emotional pain of what I was feeling about myself. And um I actually continued that journey and like you said, I I got further, further, further into that party scene. I ended up selling drugs at school and getting arrested for that. And again, just you know, again feeling like a failure because people saw me get handcuffed at school and got got sent to psych wards. I didn't know this at the time. I didn't know I had a prophetic gift as a young girl. And looking back, I wish that I had known this because if you do research on the Prophetic people get hit very hard at a young age. And you are very sensitive to the spirit realm. And so the enemy sends a lot of warfare, but I didn't know what I was dealing with. I didn't know I wasn't dealing with people. I was dealing with spirits trying to destroy my life. So when I went into these psych wards, you know, there is no component of the gospel in these places. There is no hope beyond a pill. And so their method of trying to free you is let's put a diagnosis on them, whether it be bipolar, schizophrenic. But when you look in the word of God, Jesus deals with spirits. He doesn't deal He doesn't give someone a pill. He delivers them of spirits that have been tormenting them. And so when I went to these places and they're like, "Well, you're this. You're that. You're bipolar." I just I was just so hopeless. I'm like, "Then I'm so jacked up. I I'm going to have to take a pill the rest of my life. I won't be able to function." And so yeah, the psych going to psych wards are very dark. It's a very dark place. Um And for those that haven't been in it, it it is like the movies. I mean, there are people that get put in straightjackets and rooms and um people are cutting themselves. It's It's very demonic in nature, but nobody in that in that realm that's a doctor or nurse that I went to at least or experienced even understood the spiritual realm of things. >> Phew. And I just like sometimes like when you're just explaining it, it's it's hard to even like fathom, you know, just what you were encountering and experiencing and as you said that you had this gifting and it's like the enemy knew what was on Caitlyn and it's putting you through all these experiences and I think you're even just now like seeing you like you are a testimony of like it's beautiful to see how Jesus has you like in your right mind and you're healed and you're whole I mean just all that you walked through because most people would have given up and I know you you mentioned that you had suicidal thoughts and all these things and I'm like how could you not? Like I mean just all your life is continually spiral out of control and something that you said in your book Overcomer Overcome that like really hit me is like you you said you know, there was times like you lost a match you'd feel like a failure and when you didn't get attention you felt rejected and out of that rejection you started looking what a lot happens to a lot of young women is that you're looking for love in all these wrong places and for men. And so can you just share even after your experiences that it let it led down that that path? >> Yeah, I'm really glad you asked that question because I In all honesty, I do My name Caitlyn actually means pure consecrated one. Caitlyn Elizabeth and I just remember from a very very young age being hit with things that were sexual and immoral in nature. It starting actually There was This sounds crazy, but even in elementary school, I remember my guy friends and I going into this alley by my house and there was a porn a book of porn and I remember one of my a guy said I'll pay you to do this with me and he was and luckily I didn't, but I'm like woah looking back, man, that's a spirit of prostitution, you know? And I just remember not ever feeling pure and so when you believe you're not pure and it says in the scripture as a man thinks in his heart so is he. I did not believe I was pure ever. I never felt pure from a young age. And um so because of that, I just thought, "Okay, I can't I can't get the feeling of being loved through winning tennis matches. I can't get the feeling of love through alcohol or pills. So, I'm going to start giving my body away because this is what love feels like. And um you know, it's a twisting because the enemy offers lust, which is not love. Um and he still offers it in society every single day um through social media. And so, I started actually becoming promiscuous as early as seventh grade. And um I just that was a way of life for me. It was normal to me. I didn't understand soul ties. I didn't understand that you became one with somebody. And so, that lifestyle of immorality, like I said, just was so normal. I didn't even know people were really walking in purity. But what's really sad, it makes me want to cry is um I used to like write my husband letters um of how I was going to save myself. And so, I think you know, at a young age, I just didn't have mentorship is what I look back on. It's like I didn't have a prophetic mother in the faith. My mom was an amazing praying woman. But with the gifting and wiring and all these things going on, I needed a spiritual mother to kind of guide me. And um I I wanted so badly to be pure. But when you don't believe you're pure, you can't walk that out. You don't know who you are. And so, yeah, the sexual immorality, that that was just a prevalent thing in my life. Every boyfriend, random people, it just was how I lived and um didn't think anything of it to be honest. And so, yeah. And then um I actually we'll get into it a little bit. But yeah, that that took me into uh unwed two unwed pregnancies. >> Yeah. And I just like appreciate like something that you said that um about your name being Kaelen and it means like pure and that it was like the enemy was like doing all these lies to say like you're not pure cuz you're doing this and that and the other and it's just like no, but it's through Jesus. >> Yes. >> It's not about what we do, but it's through him and because of his blood we are made pure. It's that sanctification. Um and I got emotional when you said you would write letters to your husband saying like I want to like wait until you know I'm married and it's just like even again, you know, something that you've brought up is this like it's this failure piece. Like I'm I failed at you know, I didn't do good in my tennis match. I I'm not doing good at this. It's just like this over this this pattern that was just forming in your mind because the enemy just wanted you to believe so badly like you're nothing and you're worthless. And did everything that he tried, but it's just amazing, but it once again, it's the testimony of Jesus that steps in. >> Yes, and um you know, he looking back, I didn't have the spiritual grit for this, but I had a very distorted view of God as um I would say it came through a religious spirit that was taskmaster, perfectionistic, critical and um that was my view of God and so that's what I was under was that spirit of religion that leads to rebellion. And um progressing through that journey of high school, you know, I barely graduated. I stayed on drugs, stayed high, stayed drunk. I think I went to one rehab and then a psych ward and you know, had no no goals in life. Like I didn't even I still to this day, I'm like every high schooler, my own daughter, she has like goals and she's like self-disciplined. I'm like, how? Like I can't even fathom that. Like that was just not my reality at all. And um so I graduated high school and then I ended up getting in an abusive relationship. No fault to his. We were both jacked up. I I don't like when people hear my story and think these men were the issue. I was also the issue, trust me. Um but I got into this relationship and um I actually ended up getting pregnant with twins at the time. And because all I knew was um a lifestyle staying high and drunk, I went through that pregnancy and also like we were just talking about shame. I'm a I'm pregnant out of wedlock. Everyone knows. And a lot of my friends were in the party scene at the time and told me, you know, "We'll we'll take you get an abortion and no one has to know." And um I mean they all like that they actually a couple of them like mocked me when I'd be at parties. Like they'd be like like just talking about abortion and mocking the pregnancy and looking back I'm like, "Wow, that was definitely the enemy working through them." Luckily, I chose to go through with the pregnancy. And I want to say this really clearly for anyone that is maybe pregnant out of wedlock right now. It is really hard going into those sonograms by yourself and you look around and you see people in the waiting room with their family, with their husband, getting the pictures. Um I just remember like going into those places and being like, "I want what they have, you know? I want to be normal." Um so it was really hard. It wasn't easy. It didn't look pretty. I wasn't perfect. I was no superhuman. I still to this day believe that, you know, God put his hand on my womb and saved those twins from a lot of things that I was doing really wrong. And it wasn't until I was at a party um 5 months 4 and 1/2 months pregnant. I was actually high and drunk at this party while I was pregnant. I was suicidal. I didn't care to live. And I looked at I looked around. I'll never forget it. It was a turning point in my life. I looked around at this party and I remember thinking, "I cannot live like this anymore. There has got to be something out there that can change me, change the way I'm living and I'll do whatever it takes to find out what that thing is that can free me." And because I'd grown up in the church, I knew Jesus was the answer in some weird way. And so I told my friend to let me go sit in her car and it was 5:00 in the morning. I'll never forget it. I sobered up after I prayed this prayer. I said, "Jesus, I need you to save me. I can't keep living like this. You've got to save me." And I sobered up in an instant. And I told my friend to take me home. And I had heard about a place called Mercy Multiplied in Nashville. And I don't know if anyone's familiar with that, but I had seen my friend's life transformed through this ministry. And so I went home and I woke my mom up and I said, "Mom, I want to go to Mercy Ministries. Um I cannot live like this anymore." And she laid her hands on me that night and said, "She's crying out for mercy. Have mercy on her, Jesus." The next day, we called Mercy and they said, "Well, I'm sorry. There's 700 girls on the waiting list. It could be a year before she can get in. There's There's not going to probably be a way, you know, while she's pregnant." And my mom hung up the phone, laid her hands on me and said, "God can make a way where there is no way." And she prayed over me and said, "We're asking you to step in and make a way for Caitlyn where no human can." The next day, Mercy Multiplied called us and said, "Pack her bags. The Lord has made it clear she's supposed to be here." Um a girl gave up her bed for me. And she slept on an air mattress. And that was the first time in my spiritual walk I'd ever seen heaven come down to earth and move mountains of impossibilities. And so we'll get more into my stay there, but that began That began the stages of my healing and getting into Mercy. So >> The when I This This story just like you're sharing and it's like it's just becoming more alive cuz I was reading it in your your book and just seeing like the tears and um and I was wondering I was like, "Who How did she get like get like how did I know I was like it was all God." But just hearing that like a young woman laid on an air mattress so you could have a bed and I know that like what you share is that it was so transformational in your life that you encountered God's mercy, his love like it it there's so many things that he did at Mercy Multiplied. So, can you just share about your experience because it is absolutely beautiful how like in the lowest of the low, like you're at this party, you're 4 and 1/2 months pregnant, you're like, "I'm done. I can't do this anymore." and the Holy Spirit like God steps in and it intervenes and it's like from that is like the like you said the turning point. Like that was your rock bottom, but that was the pit where he was like, "All right, I'm going to come in and step in as her redeemer like never before." So, can you share cuz it is it's amazing. >> Yes, so when I walked in the doors of Mercy, I remember telling the Lord, "I'm willing to do whatever it takes to get free here." And the cool thing about the ministry is they don't take government funding so they can preach the gospel. And so it's all based off of donations and they have houses all over the world and they're beautiful homes. It's not just like it's just incredible. In my time during Mercy, I mean it was, you know, you have to understand I hadn't really been sober for a very long time and so it was really hard. It It was a really hard journey of pressing into my emotions, going to counseling and getting healing, listening to people advice for once in my life, you know, and just working through all the trauma I had faced because up until that point those years of trauma were just numb by alcohol and drugs. And so when you're going into these settings and you're sober for the first time, it's very very very emotionally painful and you're like, "Is this pain ever going to end?" And like And so what really started happening was that scripture that talks about be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Every single day we would read scriptures over ourselves about who we are in Christ, our identity as a new creation, that we are not alcoholics, we're not drug addicts, that's not our identity. Our identity is not a failure. Our identity is righteous before the throne of God because of what Jesus accomplished. It's not a righteousness by the law, it's a righteousness by faith. Like believing that you're righteous in Christ, that's that's literally insane if you have the background that I have. Like that's what that's what Paul talks about is a righteousness by faith, like claiming it like a child. And so, during Mercy, they worked with us on overcoming lies and replacing those lies with truth. John 8:31-32 was a key scripture for me. It says, "You're truly my disciples if you abide in my word, you'll know the truth, the truth will make you free." So, we would write out lies we believed about ourselves and our identity. You're a failure, you're worthless, you're abandoned, you're a nobody, no one wants you. You would write out those lies and then I would get scripture to counteract those lies with the truth. And Jesus began speaking to my heart. Caitlin, you've been believing the liar and the accuser of the brethren all your life and he's the reason you're in bondage is because you are a spiritual slave to sin. When I was born again at Mercy Ministries, I can tell you it was a supernatural transformation where desires started to change, my my heart began to change and it was unlike anything I'd experienced. But I want to say this clearly, I had to still continue to really do hard things because when I was used to a certain way of life of retreating or getting high and drunk, when I ended up placing my twins for adoption and picking out a family and going through the grief process, it was then that I graduated Mercy. And for anyone that's been in rehab settings and you you may be in them now, um it is very easy to do well when you're in a structured place with believers. But when you get out of those safe havens, it takes a while to grow into your salvation and to grow up and mature spiritually. And so, that was a whole process in itself and I can get more in detail into that if you want. It's a lot of it I talk about in the book, but it is a journey of learning to walk out your salvation after you get out of these facilities. It's it's a long process. So. >> And I appreciate you saying it's like it's it's just like that's the beginning of like what you have to walk through, but something I want to go back to cuz it's like such a beautiful story is actually how God divinely orchestrated the family for your twins. So can you can you share cuz it was that that is just a is amazing. >> Yes, I'm so glad you brought that up because it's it's an amazing miraculous thing that he did in that too. Um so I had actually looked through a ton of adoption files um to pick the the parents for my twins and I just didn't feel peace about any of the files I had read. There was nothing wrong with the families. I just was like I just don't have peace. And um one day Nancy Alcorn who started Mercy Ministries, she had known that I was struggling to find a family. And she was like, "Caitlin, there's a couple that actually has are friends of ours and they've shown interest in adoption. I don't know if they're still looking to adopt, but I could reach out to them and see." I was like, "Yeah, it's worth a shot, you know." Well, they they got all their paperwork in order, they got their binder in order and I looked through the photos and I had was very specific on my list of what I wanted. Like I'm telling you very specific. Um and there was one thing on the list that the Lord told me to take off and that was I don't want them to have any other children. And I think I just put that on there cuz I was like, "I want all their attention to go to my kids, you know, like" and so um I took that off. And um it ended up they had a little boy and I told Nancy I was like, "I would actually like to meet with them to see what I think." And so this meeting I went into was supposed to be just the meet and greet initial meeting of getting to know them. The second I sat across that table from them, it was like a holy moment, a supernatural moment of divine intervention. I looked across that table about after 3 to 5 minutes of talking with them and I said, "I have to tell you I'm going to choose you as the parents." And um I think everyone in that room was floored and in tears and it was it was looking back it was crazy. Well, they didn't tell me this at the time. So, I have the twins. I'm with them in the hospital, place them for adoption, they're the parents. They didn't tell me this at the time because they didn't want to manipulate the situation which I was very thankful for. But their little boy came up to them one day after the mom told them she couldn't have any the doctor said you couldn't have any more kids. And he said, "Don't worry, Mommy. Jesus told me I'm going to have a brother and a sister by Christmas." And she said, "What? Like how do you" He's like, "He told me that." Well, I had conceived by Christmas a little boy and a little girl. And they were twins. And the fact that Jesus spoke to that child supernaturally like that it still blows my mind. He works all things together for good, you know? What the enemy meant for evil he used for good in all of our lives. And so, it was an incredible moment. >> I love that story so much and just I like hearing you share it. Like I have chills all over my body because it's amazing that God is in the details and that the little boy said, "Jesus told me very specifically I'm going to have a brother and a sister by Christmas." And that came to pass. And it's just it's amazing how God just redeemed it all and you know, Caitlyn, I know it's like on your heart too. Like as you you left, you know, Mercy Ministries and you had to walk it out. Can you just share a little bit about your journey through that and how you really saw the Holy Spirit walk with you in a new way as you're on your journey your road to recovery, but it's just more than that of like understanding your full identity in him and him alone. >> Yes. So, when I left Mercy, the desires to party and do all that were not really there anymore. I um ended up moving to Nashville, getting away from my hometown. I was hanging out with some really good people that were, you know, guys and girls my age that had also come out of addiction and were on fire for Jesus. And so, my initial few months of getting out of Mercy were kind of like a honeymoon phase. I didn't really have a job quite yet. I was hanging out with some really fun people. But that kind of quickly shifted when I realized, "Okay, I'm going to have to do real life as an adult here." Cuz I was 20 at the time, you know? I wasn't 16 years old. And so, I ended up moving back to my hometown um and I ended up, you know, kind of struggling for a season of just like when you when you go back to your hometown, it's very difficult because you have all these memories come and flood you with who you were. And you have all these people that are reaching out to you from your past. And so, I think, you know, in the beginning phases, you know, it was really hard because I had such strong soul ties to certain men from my past and I was working through that, but it was only a year out of my healing journey. Looking back, I really wish I hadn't moved back to my hometown because of that. Um I think it's really wise when you're coming out of recovery to not go back into the similar situations. And so, for a season, I struggled a little bit. It was like I would, you know, drink once and then I I was like, "This isn't me anymore." Like I I knew at the core of who I was, "This is not who I am." Like I would hear that and I'm like, "You're right." Like I never went back into addiction ever again like I did. But there were just moments of here and there falling, but the Lord would remind me, "This is not who you are." So, I actually ended up going to ministry school. And I was It was in Kansas City, Missouri. I was so overwhelmed in ministry school because these kids looked like they had it together. They were all believers. They had been going to church their whole life. Like most of the The I roomed with had never even kissed a boy. So, I'm like, "Oh, great. I've been to jail. I've been to rehab. I've been pregnant." I mean, it was a whole different realm for me. I was trying to learn to do my own laundry, go be places on time, like have functioning friendships. Like, I never learned really to have friendships with guys and girls that were healthy. We were all drunk or partying. And so, it was really overwhelming. And I also had to do a lot of homework in this ministry school. And I had never done homework before because I was never really at school or I was in a structured setting in rehab where they helped you basically do everything. And so, I was kind of like a baby learning to walk. And it was really difficult. Like, I won't hear people to say I want to tell people, you know, like it didn't look pretty. Like, I was I started smoking cigarettes. I ate a lot of cheese tots. I wasn't fully walking in my salvation, but I had enough knowledge of my identity that those seeds, though they were small, they started to seed form, progressively over time began to produce a harvest. But, the thing that changed the most for me was when I actually decided to go back to college instead of ministry school. And I went back to my hometown, which was also difficult. Um I'm going to say this in this interview. I don't say this in every interview, but I do feel like I need to say it. During ministry school, I went through a 9-month spiritual attack. And I don't think everyone goes through this attack. So, please hear me say I do not think this is everyone's lot in life. I woke up at 3:00 a.m. in the morning one morning, and I had demonic images flooding my mind for I cannot tell you day in and day out. And I had no idea what was happening. I had enough knowledge now that I'd gone to Mercy that it was a spiritual attack, but I didn't know how to combat it. So, I went through a 9-month period where I could not function. I couldn't hold a conversation. I couldn't think straight. I got sent back into psych wards. And I had enough knowledge to know a pill could not save me. Um and so this this was a a battle like I've never faced in my life and I still this is um 16 years later after that battle I've never had anything like it happen in my life again. Um but I do believe it was it was just an all out assault. And um so when I went back into the psych wards, I couldn't really function. I was you know like what the heck I'm back here again. I've already been delivered. What the heck? And I went back into rebellion for probably a two-month period season where I was drinking and sleeping around again and I got pregnant again out of wedlock. So to say the amount of shame over my life for a long period of time was hard to walk out of is an understatement because again, I felt like a failure. I want to say this so clearly to give you hope. If you are someone that is struggling with demonic oppression in your mind, I want to tell you even in my rebellion, Jesus delivered me of that attack in one day. After 9 months, it completely stopped all of it. I've never had the same thoughts again in 16 15 16 years. Never had the same thing happen again. I don't I don't think like I said everyone goes through that, but I do think it's worth saying to somebody that might be facing it right now. So I was pregnant again in my hometown, but the here's the power of the gospel. Although I had fallen, although I had screwed up again, the power of the gospel was so rooted in me by that point, I knew who I was at that point to a degree I don't even think I recognize because now that I had gotten pregnant, I could walk into situations even though I screwed up in the flesh and I knew who I was. And that is a miracle in itself because everything around me saying you're the same person, you're the same person, but I had to walk in the truth after that even in my hometown. And I can tell you that little girl, her name is Cadence, and I she's now 15 years old. I looked across the table one day while we're eating lunch, and it was at an Arby's, and this sounds so dramatic, but it's true. I looked across at her, and then I looked across and I could see there's like a college called ACU in our hometown, and I remember the Lord speaking to me saying, "Caitlin, I want you to do hard things for this little girl. I want you to teach this little girl to do hard things and not retreat." And I told my dad, I said, "I want to go back to college, and I want to teach her how to step into territory when she's scared." And that began the journey of me going and taking college classes, signing up for two at a time cuz I was overwhelmed. I went back to college, became a very good mom, ended up dating my now husband, who's super godly. We ended up uh running a D1 training facility together. I became a leader at our college, gave my testimony at our college, became a wellness coach, graduated with honors, got into the law school, moved to Knoxville, and now we have two children, and we've owned multiple businesses, but that's just a snippet of my journey, but I wanted to say that because I think so many times we hear testimonies and we hear of how God supernaturally delivered someone, we don't hear about how messy the process can be. Because it can be very messy. So, yeah. >> Caitlin, I just want to say I am so grateful that you felt comfortable enough cuz I know you said you don't say it in a lot of interviews, so it just really means the world to just like be transparent, say this is this was my journey. Like it is and I think it's it's real that like an addiction no no matter what you walk through when you have traumatic experience in your life, it the process healing is messy. And sanctification, it's not like cuz I I agree, I hear you do hear these stories and praise God, hallelujah for them, okay? Like if you get instantly delivered, you never go back, that's cool. For maybe 85% of us, maybe 90, I'm not sure, that's not the case. It's just it's not reality, and I just think there's just something beautiful about when you're just like, "This is This is what happened to me, but how Jesus met me every step of the way." And I know something that is like really embedded into you is like about the spirit of truth, that even in the midst of that like demonic attack that is happening, that the enemy was doing everything that he could because he knew what was on the other side. And I, you know, I love in the um Book of Job that there's, you know, when he has to like we don't even recognize that some like I remember reading it and how Satan had to go to God and say, "I let me pretty much mess with Job." But God was like, "You can do whatever, but you can't touch his life. Like you can't take him out." And it's like we go through these things because I believe that those of us that when we have to go through those things and we have these Job-like experiences and you get these attacks that you're like, "I'm not in my right mind, but I'm fighting. I'm battling." It is because of what's on the other side. And just even hearing like what you do and how God led you out of that dark pit and now how you're helping do others set them free. That's the very thing the enemy was afraid of. He was afraid of you being here. He's afraid of what you're doing now. And that's why everything hit you and slammed you. But here you are that you can stand and be like, "No, I stand on the truth of Jesus. He is the solid rock on which I stand upon." And it's his blood that has washed me clean. Girl, I'm just like I I wish I could run around right now because I just love what you just shared about like what God did, what the enemy meant for evil, God turned it all around for your good and for his purpose and for his glory. >> Yes. Amen. And you know, I told this in the recovery ministries I just was ministering at in Texas. You know, during my journey, like the practical things that I had to do, just practically speaking, and I talk a lot about this is I had to cut off contacts with my old friends from the party scene. Like I had to. I had to stop going to certain places. Like this sounds funny but the International House of Pancake I used to be there high and drunk all the time. So I couldn't go there in the beginning phases. Like it it brought back such a flood of memories. Football games I was high and drunk there. So I really had to avoid certain situations in the beginning when I was learning to walk out my salvation. Whereas now years later I go to multiple football games and don't even have a craving for beer. I haven't had a beer in probably 14 15 years. Like I don't that's just not a thought anymore. But in the beginning that was where I had to learn to plant new seeds because like I said earlier, you know, when you come out of this addiction and trauma and shame your your journey of salvation starts as a seed form and you see the harvest later on. That's why it says do not grow weary in well doing for at the proper time you'll reap a harvest if you don't faint. I had to continue to choose to go to college and get my assignments in when I was intimidated by these people. I had to choose to put myself in life groups and that was painful at times cuz humans are humans. I had to choose to show up and be part of the worship team and do all these things intimidated. But I just knew if I went back into my same old pattern, I was going to be existing in the same addiction and shame and comfort zone and die in that state and I just wasn't willing to do that anymore because now I had a little girl. She depended on my breakthrough and I just truly believe when you when we can grasp that seed time harvest time concept that's powerful because it's like you yeah, it's not different today but it these little seeds over time produces massive impact. Um and so then you know, when I started going to the gym once or twice a week I was terrified I would turn around and I think I told you go eat cheese tots and go smoke cigarettes cuz I was scared. And now it's like I I was a fitness coach and ran a gym like like little things built up over time. And so So, just amazing to see that's how his kingdom works, you know? So. >> It is amazing how his kingdom works and the scripture that comes to mind is like one of my favorite, unless a seed falls to the ground and dies, it can't produce much fruit. And so, I think a lot of times it's hard for us is that we are the seed, that there's a place of surrender where we have to die, where we have to literally and it might be over and over and over again. I don't think it's just one time you die, y'all. I think it's over and over. >> That's right. >> And over and over again cuz there's multiple seeds, but like your life, Caitlyn, is like there was these seeds that like that you there's just a part of you that had to die. >> Yeah. >> to surrender, had to let go and it was you know, it was and it and even in your journey, it was more than just the addiction, but it was the mindsets, it was the thoughts and every time that you would lay it down and lay it down and you would you know, even saying for your little girl, like Kate, it's like you had to do this for breakthrough that now you're seeing in your life the harvest and the fruit. And there's a quote from your book Overcomer Overcome that I love that you said, "Play the long game." "Feel the pain and heartache." "Sow the seeds, plow." "Have a breakdown, but stay the course." As scripture stands Excuse me, as the scripture says "Having done all to do stand." >> Amen. >> That's you. You stand. >> Yes. Yes. And I think that that is the whole taking on the mindset of a warrior like Paul talks about. Like we are we are in a war and we have to have a mindset of a warrior that goes and gets territory, is strategic in nature and doesn't back down. You know, yeah, you're going to fall, you're going to feel intimidated, you're going to the feelings are going to come and wage war against you. But at the end of the day, like you got to be fearless in the face of opposition and you got to have a grit about you and I think that's why I love people that have come out of recovery so much is there's a grit about them. There's something about them like I'm I have scraped and I have relied on Jesus and I have I have nothing to end of myself to boast about. It was him. It was his strength. He all I did was stand and he strengthened me. You know, and that's that's the power of the gospel, and the other thing while you were speaking that the spirit reminded me of was when I when I became a new creation in Christ, it says all old things have passed away, all have become new. It says in Ezekiel, he'll give you a new mind, a new heart, and a new spirit. That's the genuine reality of who we are as new believers, as children of God. Now, the way that we walk that out is you All All we're called to do is renew our minds to those truths, and those addictions naturally lose their hold because you know that you know that you know it's Christ in you now. Christ is not an alcoholic. Christ is not an addict. Christ is not lustful. You've now been given the mind of Christ, and to claim that identity, nothing can touch that. Because you're not claiming that you were righteous in your flesh, you're claiming Christ is in me, and he is the righteous one. He is the holy one. He dwells in me now. And that's what I had to do when I came out of that those seasons of failure was Caitlin, no. No, no, no, it's not who you are anymore. That's That's the old you, that's the sin nature, but that's not you. You were resurrected with him at the cross to new life. That's the reality. And that's why a lot of times I go into these recovery ministries and try to really preach that new creation reality cuz a lot of them are rooted in I'm an alcoholic, I'm an addict, and that's just not the truth of what Jesus says. It's coming into agreement with the liar and the accuser. So. So, yeah. >> Ooh, I could feel like the fire of God. I was like, this is so so so good. Is that like It's the tr- It's walking in the truth of like who he says that we are, and not like dwelling on the past, not saying like, "Oh, I did this, and I did that." That's part of my story and my journey, but that does not define who I am. And I love what you're saying is that and when you're going into these places that you're speaking that new creation mindset, like you are a new creation, and you have to leave those old ways behind. He's doing a new thing. Like, one of my favorite scriptures, he makes a way in the wilderness and a river in the desert. Like, that's what he does. He paves a new path for you to go on because he is the way. He is the road. He is the stream. He is the living water. He's the one that we go to and it's like when you have every day that intimate time with him and you go into his presence and you spend it and sometimes you talk and sometimes you cry and sometimes you saying nothing at all. It's just every day it's just like going in it's like he does something here news our mind daily and when you were talking and I could not it was like you probably have these moments it's like the prophetic gifting where it's like you're talking and I just hear blink like scripture and it's like over and over and I literally yesterday like the Lord spoke this to me in 2 Thessalonians 3:3 and I'm I'll be honest y'all I've never gone in I haven't really read 2 Thessalonians. Maybe you didn't even know there's a 2 Thessalonians. There is but the scripture that like came to mind and it was like it hit me for this like moment is it says that God the Lord Yahweh he is trustworthy and he will protect and strengthen you from the evil one. >> Mhm. >> And it is just when you were talking just blew up in my spirit because what it's putting what your your story and your journey is just such a beautiful picture of is putting my trust and my all and my hope in him. Despite everything that came against me despite all the attacks and the waves and the things that I even done to myself that God is a trustworthy God and even in the midst of when we are making the worst decisions for our lives isn't it amazing what other God cuz there ain't one his name is Jesus that steps in and says I'm going to protect you I'm going to save you and I'm going to strengthen you because Caitlin like just hearing you talk of like everything that you walked through girl I think a lot of us I don't I don't know where we we be but you're just what you share and just seeing the joy on the your on your face and the light of the Lord that's within you and how you speak with so much authority and power of like this is who I am you that that scripture I'm like that's That shows what God can do because you put your trust in him that he will strengthen you. He will protect you. He will guide you. He will defend you and turn it all around. I mean, Woo. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. It is It is unreal. And so sometimes what you're describing, sometimes I really I wonder. I wonder sometimes with people that haven't struggled and I'm not talking on this level. Not everyone has to go to this level of stupidity that I did. But I wonder sometimes how do people that haven't struggled in a in a really hard way? How do they How do they encounter his heart, you know? Um I think that's the biggest thing here in my story is we see his heart. He is merciful. He's not the accuser. It says he's the same yesterday, today, and forever. If we see the character of Jesus in scripture raising up those that are stooped down low and raising them to high places and going to the woman at the well, that character does not change. That will never change. No matter how many times you screw up, it's who he is. It's his heart. And I just wonder sometimes. I'm like I pray it for my daughters. I'm like, Lord, I wrote about that in my book. I said, um I actually have the book right here. I said, I want to dedicate this book to my children and I said, my prayer for both of you is that you will heed the voice of your father from a young age, walk in wisdom, be rooted in your faith. But here's the other part of the prayer. I pray you will never darken the doors of a jail cell for any type of rebellion, but rather be the ones who minister at prisons, bars, and places few choose to go. I pray you carry the wild beating heart of your savior for those the world has given up on. And you know, that's That's my prayer is like, Lord, give them this same heart and passion for the least of these, but please keep them from making these foolish mistakes. You know, and that that to me if you if we can have that wild beating heart of his for the least of these without going through that, I would highly recommend it. You know, and that's my prayer for my girls is I don't want you to become religious Pharisees because you have the squeaky clean past. You got to know how much you've been forgiven of in order to love someone, you know? That's my prayer for them. >> That is such a beautiful prayer and that they can go back to it and be like, you know, knowing your journey and story like Mommy went through all of this, but Mommy led the way. Like you, Caitlyn, are truly like a chain breaker and you probably like know this and um that what God is doing in you that like I think of that scripture it says Jesus gives us authority to trample on serpents and scorpions and nothing will have any power over us and that because you pushed through and you broke through with that, like the generational curses and the deliverance that you've walked through, now your girls get to see that example but have that same wild heart for Jesus and to go into those places because you know, I I'm like with you like sometimes there's some people I'm like sometimes I'm like Lord, why do some of us have to go through? Like I mean for real like sometimes I was like I'm tired, Jesus. Okay, I'm tired OF GOING THROUGH. I AM TIRED. SERIOUSLY, I'm just that's that's a little moment in my prayer closet and my moments I was like Lord, I am tired. >> Yes. >> But also it's just like um help me, Holy Spirit, get my my train of thought back. But then I but also those moments of like if we all just come alongside together like there's beauty in those of us who've been in the depths and the throws of it and the others that have like God has really blessed you and spared you from those things but when we walk together but it's all about people knowing who Jesus is and when you see the least of these, when you walked um I'll share this with you, Caitlyn, cuz this just happened and this woman has been on my mind. I was at a bridal shower in Philadelphia for she's like a sister to me, like a little sister. And as I'm leaving the bridal shower, I was and I'm like parking my car like cuz I had to get her gift out. This woman is to the left and she's like this older woman, Caitlyn, she's like maybe 70, 80 years old. She's going to the bathroom. And I just had this moment of like we're all here, you know, it's it was it's fancy schmancy at this hotel, but here's this woman like right outside that like I I I couldn't imagine I have to go to the bathroom, but I'm like literally it was like there was a dumpster and she's right there and I feel that like in that moment it just broke my heart and like I was recently in California and I saw like those like intense and I saw people like in downtown LA like they're shooting up and getting high, you know. >> Yeah. >> Caitlyn, I just think like what you're calling us to do like out of your story is like are we going to stop for the one? Like >> Yeah. >> are we going to like really stoop down low and get outside of our comfort zone and I think you're challenging and maybe like when God has called you as like as a prophet in this like our generation is like to challenge the religious Pharisees because I think somewhere along the way we got it wrong. Somewhere along the way that we it was all about how pretty my life looks and building up my own empire and all this and that we are forgetting about those that are so destitute and so broken and like Father, forgive us. Like when did we become this way? Like that's not what Jesus was with the Like Jesus would have been with you at the parties. You know what I mean? It's like Jesus is walking. He'd be at the parties. He'd be at the jail cell. He would He would be there. I'm like So sometimes I'm like what are we doing? And I you know, and so I just thank you for your story because it's just convicting where I'm like what am I do Sometimes I'm like what am I doing? >> Mhm. Mhm. I I love that you have just said this because that has been my prayers like wake your body up, Lord. Like we cannot sit in church pews and and just have look like we have it together when these people are dying and the enemy is taking them out. Like when I went to minister this past weekend in Texas, I was at like places most people would not want to be. These people did not have one thing together. They were former gang members, drug addicts, some of them still alcoholics. And it's like I even at the airport, there's a guy I showed him my book. He had just thrown up all over himself. People were walking past him like he's a nobody. It's like this is who we came for, you guys. This is the only way you're going to see his heart is if you go and love those that have nothing going for them. And it's just I just read the story yesterday about the the the Pharisees that walked past that man on the side of the road that had been beaten and bruised and all that. It's like on their way to what I think if they're on their way to church service or whatever. And he was beat up and bruised on the side of the road. And I I'm right there with you. I don't know how we've gotten so far off and I've because I think because I've been in such dark places, I've never really understood the the church hierarchy. My husband made me a sweatshirt that said um made for the streets, not the pew. And he said what you what you've done for the least of these you've done for me. And uh man, I think sometimes we got to get people that have a squeaky clean past and take them to these places because it's really hard to know love when you've never seen that you are those people. You are those people. >> Yeah. >> And uh >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it's powerful. >> Yeah, this is like I'm getting emotional like but I but I was like this is Holy Spirit. Like we don't know like that we just we just followed him and his heart and but I think what you're saying is just so true is like when where how did we get here, you know? Um and and I I think I'll be honest like going back to that woman in Philadelphia. I I realized I was like there was so much stuff going on. I had to like I was with my mom. We had to get back to Philly, but I'm like what would it look like for me to get out that car? And like uh like you don't you just like take that time and I'm like I'm just being transparent honest like >> Yeah. >> Like, what would it look like? And um >> Yeah. >> And maybe like we need to start looking at being interrupted again. And there was a time in my life and I like and maybe like you're y'all might be like me like I I used to like have that passion and that fire and desire and then sometimes I like I do stop or I like give money or whatever may be, but like what if we just really sought the heart of God and saying like what do you want, Jesus? Because I like reading stories like yours, but I think even just talking to you, Caitlin, and how it came to like just seeing you >> Um >> makes it more clear that maybe the the heart for this is like if you are in those situations, it's like the freedom is in Jesus. And that's like our desperate heart if you're watching this like we want you to know Jesus, but it for those of us that that's not our situation. So, how what are you going to do after this conversation, after this episode? Are you going to just continue Like, to me I'm like >> Yeah. >> I'm just I'm just going here like >> Yeah. >> Cuz I just feel like if I have a moment with God and just talking to you, Caitlin, like and I forget that we're even like recording, but whatever. Then I'm like, what is the point of doing this if all it is is like, you know, you do these podcasts or you have a show or and all you do is you just take it for yourself and that's it. >> Mhm. >> But what is the point of this? You know what I mean? Like >> Yeah. >> if you're watching this and all you just feel like, oh, that was a really good story and testimony, makes you feel good, but it doesn't implore you to act then I'm not then this is this is meaningless. You know what I mean? Like if that's where I'm I'm like I'm at like in my life. And I feel just talking to you is just like a reminder of that of what are we doing? And I I don't want to do anything that doesn't bear fruit. I don't want to do anything that like just tickles people's flesh and makes them feel good. Enough is enough. People are dying spiritually, physically. So, Caitlin is there anything else like on your heart to just share? Because I know you And and I was like and y'all Kaylin is amazing what she's done because I know she is like she is pouring out and is pouring out for years. Is there anything else on your heart to just to just share? >> I would just say you know something that I came home with after I ministered at those rehabs and the bar church in Abilene was all right, I'm going to start me and my guy friend we used to teach recovery ministry at our church but they wanted to have someone on staff headed up and so we were like we can't get on board like we got to be spirit led and so he and I actually decided yesterday on my flight back home. I just said Lord I'm going to I'm going to start up our own group and we're going to go downtown and start getting the drug addicts and we're going to start getting the prostitutes and we're going to bring them into this building and then what what I eventually would love to do is to take them into these church buildings and have them sit on the front row so people can see the genuine power of the gospel in churches. That's my that's my whole goal. And you know I just think that like you said it takes taking a step and you know we may have two people show up to this meeting that's fine with me. One life can transform an entire nation and so that that's what I told him. I said we're going to just go out and find the broken and we're going to give them opportunities to come and and be taught the word of God and do raw and real worship and then I'm actually I started a mobile coffee truck that we're going to launch this fall and I would love to give drug addicts prostitutes like job opportunities to be mentored and disciple and give them a skill and so I think it just takes a practical step of just go for it. Come up with a creative way in the kingdom and go for it. So >> I just when you just shared that thank you for sharing your your vision and your heart cuz it got brought a tear to my eye of just like everything that you walk that you just want to give back and so into them and so they know their identity in Christ and feel that value and feel that worth that they that they don't feel because of like what they've been through and so if I'm just going to say if like you're watching this and, you know, watching through YouTube or on Cornerstone Television Network, I just want to give you an opportunity like and you want to connect with Caitlin and see how you can help her ministry cuz I I and to give just just reach out to us at the gloryhour@ctvn.org and I will send her the information. I just really feel that on my heart. Um just to like help and to, you know, come alongside of what you're doing in the great state of Texas. Is my accent cool? >> Well, I'm actually my hus- This so, we were in West Texas where I'm from, but my husband and I we now live in Knoxville, Tennessee. >> did say Tennessee. >> Yes. >> My bad. >> Both both places are very important to my heart. So, either Texas, Knoxville, giving in either of those is high on my list. >> Sorry. Yeah, so my bad. I was thinking like Texas but in Knoxville, but just a way to get connected to Caitlin and all that she's doing and also a way to support is her book Overcomer Overcome, which was a great read. I love how it was, you know, Caitlin like it was your voice. I I just I from the jump I said, "Oh, she is not playing. She doesn't like she's laying it all out." I said, "I love this. I love it cuz it was it's like you're it was like God's goodness, but it was gritty, it was raw, it was authentic, and it your story just like made an imprint in my spirit and that it you read it and just from this interview like it'll leave one in yours. And so, Caitlin, from the bottom of my heart I just want to say this has been an absolute joy. Um just to spend this time together and just to talk and to hear your journey and your story. And thank you for all that you're doing for the kingdom and how you're on the front lines and how you are literally like an example to all of us of what it looks like to be touched, radically transformed by Jesus, but then to really live it out. Like you have businesses and things that you're doing on the side, but it's not stopping you. It's like you're a marketplace, you're a mom, you're a wife, marketplace, but you're also ministry oriented. And thank you for being just an example of that and inspiring all of us, you know, to seek the Lord and say like, what can I do, you know, from that place. >> Well, thank you for having me on. This has been one of the most refreshing things I've done. So, I I just appreciate your heart and your vulnerability. So, it's been an honor. So. >> Well, thank you.