How Franco's Dictatorship Ruined Spain's Economy for Generations, But the Right Loves Him

I'd like to get to kind of Franco's rule. So, what what else do we need to talk about in with regard to the Civil War? Can you give us a a a quick explanation of why he wins? >> Yes. Because on the one side, you have proper soldiers, proper officers, battle tested officers getting significant proper help from military serious powers. And on the other side you have militias in fighting and they don't and Franco always has the momentum always all he's he has the white he's the white in the chess board he makes the first move and he keeps the momentum when he manages to take the north it becomes clear that now the republic is is in very bad shape and slowly slowly slowly slowly he keeps winning the republicans at some point try a counterattack but it's h so within three years and through unspeakable crimes Franco gets to Madrid hundreds of thousands of people escape towards France those who don't escape their fate is h is very very bad so very quickly this war costs more than half a million lives and a significant amount of these are people who don't die in the battlefield they die as a result of the battle is over now we're going to execute you even after the war Franco kills some people claim more than 100,000 people after the war so no reason that anyway and this is how he his dictatorship his one party state starts from 1939 till his death in 1977 so we can now leave behind the civil war and see the rule of France. While the rest of Europe is now entering World War II, Spain enters its own period of misery. So why is it that Spain doesn't join Italy and Germany in um in World War II? I mean, by the time World War II starts, the Civil War is over. Franco's in control. Why isn't he invading France from the South or the or the West um to to join the Nazis? Yes, it's not for lack of wanting. So, it crosses his mind and he actually has a meeting with Hitler in somewhere in the south of France on the 23rd of October 1940. I remember the date, not because I have any crazy memory. It's a few days before Mussolini attacks Greece and Hitler's mind is preoccupied. What is this idiot going to do? is going to attack Greece and he's going to fail as exactly happened when Mussolini attacked Greece. Anyway, between that he meets Franco. Franco knows that he's leading a country which is destroyed, a country that is in ruins and he will only enter the war if he gets a lot of loot, a lot in advance. So he tells Hitler, "Look, of course I respect you. Of course we are with you. All I'm asking is French, Algeria, the whole of Morocco, give me also Gibbraltar when you will take it from the bridge. And while we're at it, you need to give us food for the foreseeable future and weapons for the foreseeable future. Hitler's impression from the meeting. When he leaves, he tells his I'd rather go and have my teeth pulled rather than meet Franco again. So Franco's accolades will say this was a brilliant move because Franco really did not want to enter the war but he didn't want to you know appear weak to Hitler. Anyway Hitler is not going to give Northern Africa to Franco because then VC France and General Pen will be disappointed. So the only contribution of Spain in the war is when he sends the blue division to Stalingrad. So Franco notice already he plays it clever. He says I'm not sure if Hitler is going to win. Therefore he tells the allies I'm not participating in the war. I'm just you know just I want to kill communist. So it has nothing to do with you. I just want to keep communist. And also he says Hitler see I'm helping you. So whoever wins, he says, "I'm gonna be safe. If the if the allies win, I didn't intervene." Okay, Stalin, you know, we all hate him. If Hitler wins, he says, "Hey, I was always by your side, so now give me stuff." So this is this is how he played it out. After 1942, it becomes clear Nazis are not going to win. So he tries to distance himself from from fascism. >> All right. So Spain doesn't enter World War II. It has a civil war, but there's a sense in which, you know, it now has 5 years of relative peace. Um it's not being bombed into oblivion by either the Nazis or uh or the or the Allies. So by the time 1945 comes, uh it should be relative to the rest of Europe. It should be a thriving, rich, you know, the place to, you know, successful place. And we know that u, you know, fascists run the economy so well or or or Catholic authoritarians run the So, so what is the reality? Because that obviously doesn't happen. uh and and Spain somehow manages to stay poor in spite of not having s not having to suffer through World War II. >> Yeah. First of all, to be fair, the civil war that they went through was horrendous. So, in some ways, >> five years head start, right? They can start rebuilding in 39 and France and Germany only start rebuilding in 45. >> True. So how is the rebuilding going? It's going that Spain has actually two famines. You have seen that we've only seen in the history of Soviet Union. So farmers going looking for I don't know how you call when you try to eat for how when they try to eat grass and things like that. And this is because Franco thinks he's an expert in the economy. He has this stupid idea that everything that Spain needs, we already have it and everything alien is alienating. And he comes up with a plan of ot how it's a Greek word, a otarchy. So we don't need anything from outside >> and this goes >> this is this is very I mean this is an important concept because this is the American right today. This is very much what they believe in, right? This is the whole idea of tariffs and everything else. We need to build everything in America. We, you know, we need to produce our own stuff. We shouldn't be quote dependent on anybody else. Or however you Greeks pronounce it. Um is very very popular in on the American right today. And it's what part of what makes Franco I think appealing is he he had this idea way before the American right came up with it. Yeah. And it's it's a it's an absolute. It's an absolute disaster. >> Always is. >> Sorry, >> I said it's always is. >> It always is. And again, it would be a 100% predictable. But the thing is, who is running Spain? First of all, there's no there's nothing like free economy. By the way, we can discuss later if if Spain is a fascist state. And I think it's something even worse. And I can explain why I say even worse. So when we say Spain is not fascist, this is not to why it was Spain. I think it was something actually even worse. So there's crazy inflation. There's inflation because there's nothing. There's no foreign currency because soon Franco realizes that exporting oranges is only going to get you that far. So there's inflation. There's no proper industrial activity. There's no initiative. The economy is run by his cronies. Franco does not trust people. So his inner circle are the same people who one of them is his brother-in-law. The his secretary is his brother then it or when his daughter gets married, his son-in-law. It reminds me of a current family which is leading a country where everyone around the great leader is making deals of millions and billions. But who am I? Who am I to know? Okay. So this is how France is this is how Spain is going. And at some point in the 50s this becomes so bad that something has to change. But just when we say bad, let's put it into comparison to other countries or to Spain itself in 1955. Now we are 16 years after the end of the civil war. So think of Europe in 1961. Let's say the equivalent. In 1955, Spain has a lower Spain is poorer than Spain was before the beginning of the Civil War. >> Yep. And an even crazier statistic in 1955, it's difficult to know exact GDPs because you have to project on the past, but Spain's GDP is either the same or a bit lower than Greece. Greece experienced >> and it's important. It's GDP per capita. So it's it's GDP per capita wealth. So this is this is independent of immigration, right? And and growth in population. GDP per capita is about the same a little lower than Greece in 195. >> Greece had gone through n war Nazi occupation and a civil war exactly 10 years after the Spanish civil war. The Greek civil war its main part is 3 46 to 49 and within six years Greece is almost the same if not better off depending on which it is you see than Spain. So this is the economic miracle of Franco. You're going to hear a lot the term economic miracle. We're going to see what the miracle was. >> Yeah, we'll see. We'll see that in a minute. So in 1950, just to give you some more stats, 48% the the the GDP per capita in Spain was 48% that of Western Europe uh of the European average, Western European average. Remember 1950, this is five years. I I don't know if you've ever seen pictures of bombed out Germany or or or the the the the France just gone through this blistering war. I mean whole whole towns have been destroyed. This is 5 years after the end of the war and Europe is double double the the the GDP per capita the income. It's um it's 62% of Italy. Italy not a particularly rich country. This is 62% of that. So 40% >> and also a Catholic country with a lot of tradition of Catholicism and a country where the second biggest political forces the communist party of Italy. So Italy has so many things staked against it because they're going to say oh you know the communist now Spain without communists is worse than Italy. >> Yeah. And in 1935 before the civil war Spain was 81% of Italy. So it still wasn't addedly but it was 81. So it dropped 20 percentage points relative to Italy when Italy again was went through the war where it was crushed. I mean it was completely I mean the allied completely destroyed parts of Italy huge parts of Italy. All its industry was destroyed as you said the rise of communist parties in in Italy. Italy had a dominant communist party and yet it still managed to get richer than significantly richer than Spain uh by 1950. So when Franco was in charge of the economy, it was an unmitigated disaster. You can only compare him to socialist holes like Albania. I mentioned Albania because they also had the idea of utarch. >> Yes. Anyway, >> what happens in the early 50s, the Cold War begins, the war in Korea. So, the idiots in the United States, they say, "Hey, there's a guy in Spain who also hates communists. Maybe we should do business with him." By that point, the many counties didn't even have embassies because, oh, by the way, Franco's savagery was such that made him an international pariah. Even fascists like Finati who was the brain let's say of fascism in Italy he's appalled by what he sees in Franco Spain even Himmler for the name of for the love of God himler of the SS goes to Spain in a VIP trip and his he his report is what are these guys doing like they are this savagery is I mean he hasn't got a moral problem but this savagery is destroying the country anyway and The westerners keep Spain at arms length. But this starts changing in the 50s and the west opens up towards Spain. And what happens in the late 50s is that IMF, the international monetary fund, of course by the nudge of the United States has a rescue package for Spain like it does in any other economic basket case. It bails out Spain and requires some reforms. So Franco again is such an idiot. He does not understand for example how it can be that if you devalue your currency it can be a good thing. He thinks that devaluing your currency means you're a traitor because Spanias was going to have less fewer pacettas. The genius Codio but anyway as part of the reforms many technocrats come to run the economy. Many people and most of them of the top technocrats related to a Catholic group called Oppus Day. You might people might remember Oppus Day from Dan Browns, Da Vinci Code and Bishop Aring Roa. They're the bad guys there, but they're ultra Catholics, but they're slightly more open-minded. So even oppus Day is more open-minded than Franco >> than Franco. Yep. >> And they open up a bit the economy. The other thing that happens, many Spaniards are already abroad and even more leave and become gastra biters in Germany like many other poor countries of the south. So that's the level of Spain. It has to send gastra biters to Germany and these people send back hard currency. So this is how Spain slowly and because its starting level is very low, it can manage to have a leap. so relevant to where it was. It has a huge a huge growth. But this has to do with the fact of how low it was. And the other the last thing that happens that explains the quote miracle is tourism. Spain opens up. The Spaniards, the conservatives freak out because women in bikinis show up. They have all these moral panics that these women are sex hungry and they're going to they're going to to destroy the morals of of proper Spanish men. And uh this is how to going towards the 1970s the 1960s is a decade of economic progress. Again though it is an economy which is run predominantly by the state not anymore by Franco and his click so much. They are the beneficiaries of under the table deals but there is some breathing space and this is how you have the development of Spain in the 1960s. >> Yes. So I think so yeah I mean it's it's IMF it's the technocrats there's definitely a liberalization there's a stabilization of the currency there's a uh you know reduction of of the deficits and uh uh more sanity brought to the local currency uh yeah as you said it opens up to foreign capital it opens up to to tourism which brings in foreign capital uh remittance is bring in and it starts trading. So it gives up on the autotocracy kind of idea. It it actually opens up its borders and starts trading particularly with Western Europe. Um and um and it grows really fast between 59 and 75. Uh real GDP per capita grows at 5.6% annually which is really fast. Now just understand how bad things were to begin with. by the end um it's still only 74% of Italy, 61% of France, 66% of Germany, 67% of Britain, and just barely above Greece. >> And this is after the miracle. >> Yeah. Does that >> I have people I have people on Twitter the Spanish miracle. The Spanish miracle. And if you look at growth rates throughout Europe during this period 59 to 75 are some of the fastest growth rate per periods in European history. All these economies are going I mean France is going through the roof and France is this is Charles the goal I guess this is the the goal period uh and and French economy is is is going really really fast. Ital is going fast. See yes Spain is going a little faster than all of them a little bit. So it catches up a little bit, but it's not growing fast enough to catch up with these other countries. And it only grows when it becomes more like them and less like Franco envisioned it. Less controlled by Franco and more controlled by technocrats, let's call it people without a real ideological agenda when it comes to economics. and the last smoking gun to destroy this myth that the economic miracle of Franco. Franco we're going to see dies in 75. In 77 there's a different government. In the early 80s the socialists come to power. Socialists of the early 80s who are almost real socialist like very statist. Do you know what is the biggest thing they the socialists do when they come to power? They open and liberalize the economy. >> Yeah. >> The economy in Spain, even in 1982, was such [snorts] a statist mess that the socialist, for God's sake, they liberalize they liberalized labor law. It was impossible to fire to fire a worker. They they changed they open up the economy. the socialist. So the socialist of the early 80s are more market oriented than the reformist period of Franco. Not to speak of the period of Franco. This is who the caigo was who today people tell me the miracle and he destroyed communism and so on and so forth. >> Yeah. And and the reality is that the convergence with Europe or the real economic miracle if you will happens from 1986 to 2000. That's when you really see Spain outperforming other European countries and and starting to catch up. I mean, it really doesn't catch up until more recently. But, uh, it it's it does pretty well under socialist governments in ' 86 to 2000. it there's a period of adjustment from when he dies uh and the socialist you know liberalize and there's some readjustment that has to happen there but then things just take off >> and trade liberalized large inflows of foreign capital and then of course of course the great what really happens in ' 86 what's the thing that happens in ' 86 god forbid Spain joins the evil monster the European Union and of course once it joins the European Union, >> the European community back then. >> Yes. But it basically free flow of goods, free flow of capital, free flow of people and act actually energizes the Spanish economy. It it brings many more tourists down to Spain and uh it it allows you know free flow of goods, open borders in of of goods and uh and capital um enhance economic growth. And the last thing that we need to mention Yon about the last period, the the Spanish miracle period is that it coincides with Franco mostly being a figure who hasn't got much to do with the everyday life. I'll just give one example. I reading one of his biographies turns out that he had 17 TVs at his house and how impressive he watched every single game of the World Cup of 1974. I thought I'm the craziest World Cup watcher. There has been no World Cup even when I was a student that I managed to watch every single game. Franco apparently had so much time that he had time to watch every single game of the 1974 West German World Cup. So yeah, he wasn't very hands-on in the last years of his life. He also had of course health problems. He was old. So he had le the less he had to do with running Spain, the better Spain did. >> The better Spain did. So I I also want to talk about how he treated [clears throat] his opponents, what was life like in Spain during this period because economics is economics, but free speech, what was going on with his political opponents? Uh you know what what you know did they continue the killing, the torture, the the the the jailing of uh people who disagreed with him? >> Yeah. So there was a first amnesty something like 10 years after the end of the civil war. Er many people though were still persecuted. There was still some resistance in the mountains. The torture never stopped. So Spain systematically committed torture till the end of the regime till the till the 70s. They also had a particularly horrible way of execution where it was called garing. I don't want to mess up with people's appetite at this time. They can go and check it on internet if they want. It's it's the way people were tortured in the middle ages and and all the way really until the enlightenment. This it's a pre-enlightenment way of punishing and torturing people. >> Yes. And this was the how they would execute their political opponents. Uh towards the last years they faced good Catholics by the way. I just want to emphasize that that you know the the people doing the gariting were good Catholics. So >> now to be to be fair with many Catholics were actually that's the other thing we have to say at some point even the majority of let's say good Catholics were disgusted with Franco and they had enough of him. So h many people who complained about the tortures were Catholics and what does Franco do then he starts arresting priests. He has he has zero inhibition to go against even the Catholics and he's claiming that now there's a Freemasonry conspiracy within the Catholic Church because again everything is the Freemasons. I don't know what he had with with the free with the Freemasons but yeah even the Catholic church he would turn he would turn against them and towards the last years of his rule there's also the terrorism from Basque independent activists terrorists actually ETA which was active till some years ago so this gave rise to more persecutions torture garing and uh and all that stuff. So this never changed. The regime never became actually better. There was censorship, official censorship, not every newspaper had to go through a censorship censorship progress and these things would sometimes slightly become quote liberalized. So the best you could hope is maybe you can publish the newspaper and if there's a problem then they're going to knock on your door. But this would be a back and forth. He would give liberalize a bit here and take away take away there. So he be he was an embarrassment for the west and a same a stain on the west from the time where his Moroccan troops were raping women encouraged by their officers Spanish officers till the very end. He was an embarrassment and he was he was a stain. So, one other thing I want to cover before we get to his appeal to the American right, you know, there's all this stuff about immigration. You know, all these people want to come into Spain and uh and Franco would have kept them out. Franco would have been tough on them and and and that'd be good. So, I I looked up I looked up, you know, what was immigration into Spain like under Franco. And uh of course, there was none. And there was none. Not because Franco was tough, not because he was scary and would use the military against him. There was none because nobody wanted to live in Franco, Spain. And >> to do what? There were no jobs. What would you There was no welfare state. There were no jobs. And the re or the welfare state was I'm sure they the immigrants wouldn't have received any. But then 2 million Spanish workers left Spain. So the population of Spain between 1950 and 1970 shrunk by I mean 2 million workers left. People wanted out and they they left Spain to go work in place like Germany, France, Switzerland. This is before the Europe before it was easy to cross borders. This was hard to cross borders and almost nobody nobody came into Spain even during the rapid economic development of the uh 1960s. uh you know they were the one of the poorest countries or or you know close to the poorest country in Western Europe. Why would anybody want to want to go there? Um so you know it says here that just before Franco's death in 1975 the country began seeing small initial arrivals from guess where Morocco. Uh so the Moroccan immigration trend of uh Moroccans immigrating to Spain actually started under Franco and under Franco also he lost parts of Morocco and he kept the one town that you see these days in the news and another not enclave port how to put it a small piece of land nearby nearby over there. Anyway, so yes, this was this was this was Franco. Supporting Franco is as disgusting. So there are two types of people who can support Franco. Either you are a moral degenerate in which case you don't care about the rapes, the torture, all these things or about the fact that Spain without any reason because there was no communist threat after 39 remained a dictatorship for 30 something years and or you're historically literate so you don't know any of these things. These are the only two categories of people who can appreciate Franco. Either you don't care about what he did or you don't know what he did. But Nicholas, he beat the left. He he was an enemy of the left. You know, he he he he was a successful counterrevolutionary. >> First of all, there would be no Spanish revolution without Franos Coop. Again, all the things that you've seen, the red and black flags in Barcelona, you know, when the Popular Front won, they made the case that all the ministers were the most mainstream and least radical they could find. >> Now, I'm even open to the idea that the popular front did horrible things and it was legitimate for the army to intervene. I can I can discuss this. An army intervening does not mean doing the monstrosities that Franco's armies did during the war and even more after the war. There was zero co there there was no country with such a low communist threat as Spain after 1939. And yet Franco throughout his when there was no communist threat ruled in the same mindset in the same thagis barbarian savage way which is more proper for a third war socialist regime or a baist regime. Spain looked more than a baist regime ra than anything resembling the west. >> But again, Nikos, you're not getting it right. Um I mean Franco supported Catholic and religious education. He was for traditional marriage and sexual morality. He believed in the patriarchy right patriot national unity uh against the regional separatists. >> So does Kaddafi and obedience >> Gaddafi Saddam Saddam Hussein believe these things. So and when it comes to he killed communist there was a guy in Germany also who killed communist. So I have people who claim they in our movement and they are writing to me but he killed communist. Okay Google who was the current chancellor in Germany after 1933. You'll find out he also killed communist. Maybe he will be of interest to you. Go check him out. >> But here's the thing. I think that they want to love Hitler, but they can't. He has a bad rap. Although Tucker Carlson is trying to change that. He has a bad rap. So, who's like a what seems like a soft Hitler, right? No, no Holocaust, no big war against the West, an ally of the United States, and a good Christian. Importantly, a good Christian. So, a Hitler who's a Christian and a lover of family and who doesn't go to war against the West and doesn't have a Holocaust on his hands. That's Franco. >> Well, yeah. Well, he made his country a training ground for countries that did go to war with the West. But, >> well, and he destroyed his own country. I mean, and and he impoverished it and he he added no value. Zero value. There's no there's nothing good nothing good happened under Franco's regime except yes he killed some communists but there weren't that many communists before Franco launched the civil war Franco indeed created more communists in Spain than anybody else if it was not for Franco today no one would have heard the terms senate fi only like historians of the movement no one would have heard the terms international brigades and Again, this gave so much credibility to communism. Remember people remember the movie Openheimimer. Remember in the late 30s Openheimer goes to that party. What is his gateway to the communist movement? He supports Spain which means I support the international brigade which means I support the communist party which means I support the Soviet Union. >> Yeah. So Franco was the best PR for the comturn and for Stalin during a period where Stalin was doing the worst crimes. This was a period of purge and instead of discussing the purges we were discussing how brilliant the Soviet Union it helps democratic space Spain against these monsters who destroy Gernika and the Moroccan troops are raping women. This is this is what was the discussion. >> Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at some point we should probably do a show and call Schmidt who's got this idea of friend and enemy. >> Friend and enemy. Yeah. Well, that's all. He hasn't got anything else. That's That [laughter] would be the >> Yeah. Well, it's it'll be a short show, but we >> actually let me give you a final very hot take in terms of how much disgust I have for Franco. If one figure from the nationalist should win, I think everyone including normal Spanish people would be better off under the under Jose Antonio of the fallang than after Franco. I think Franco was worse even than the local fascist and he was definitely worse than Mussolini in terms of internal what happened. If you ask me, you are the same person. You're a classical liberal. Do you live in Italy Mussolini or in Franco Spain Italy Mussolini every day every day of the week in Spain I would be in clear danger because in Spain he would first of all he would have this idea every class anything that has to do with the enlightenment is Masonic freemasonic stuff. So at some point Franco says mine is a revolt against the 19th century which means against classical liberalism against the enlightenment against individualism. This is the guy who the new right wants to emulate. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm waiting for them to also uh bring up Mussolini and and embrace him as well. So, it's just a matter of time, I think. >> Well, they're looking for >> I don't think that he's he's too Mussolini is too much of a >> I mean, they don't have a problem with socialist. I was I was about to say Molin was too much of a socialist for their taste, but why would they stop them? They absolutely do not have any problem with with socialism. They're a bunch of socialists. I mean, they they they really are. Uh they're status just like Franco was, just like Mussolini was, just like Hitler was. Uh the the right is statist it is socialist in that sense.