How Amouranth Makes $2 Million Per Month | The Full Story

Today we're speaking with one of the most popular streamers in the world, Amouranth. Even though you might know her from her hot tub streams or a Vice documentary where she shares her one and a half million dollar monthly income. Behind the scenes, she's a business savant who owns multiple gas stations, Texas real estate, and one day has a dream of opening up an animal sanctuary. I was running a character company for children's birthday parties. Did you own the company? Yes. You did. Wow. I didn't expect to learn so much about marketing and business from this, but I did and you will, too. Although before we go into that, Jack, I have to say you've been wearing that shirt non-stop. Every single time I've seen you recently been wearing that exact same shirt. I can wear it like five to six times, maybe tens of times, and it doesn't stink. So that's a huge plus for me. You know what's funny? I was wearing the exact same shirt for like days in a row until Macy made me take it off and put it in the wash. you take it off? Yeah, she says I've been wearing it too often. Unbound Merino is sponsoring this video. That's the clothing we've been wearing right now. Not even exaggerating, I have been wearing that exact shirt non-stop and I love it. Unbound Merino is a clothing brand that uses the ultimate travel fabric, merino wool, which is perfectly optimized for packing, comfort, and maximizing your travel experience. The merino wool is incredibly light, moisture-wicking, and odor-resistant. And my favorite part from all of this is that it almost feels like you're not wearing anything because of how soft it is. Seriously, guys, I wish you could just reach through your phone screen right now and grab this shirt because I have never had a shirt that felt like this ever before. And trust me, it's insane. 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We went to a ranch. We did. Horses. That was the first time I've ever pet a horse, I think. Congratulations. So, yeah, it's really nice. You live streamed, which is crazy. Yeah, it was pretty fun. scary. That was horrifying. Graham and I were so nervous about that. Yeah. If you get killed by the horse, it's live on stream. That's true. That's true. Yeah. You had a really nice uh chat though on the stream. Yeah, they're pretty friendly. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting a whole bunch of just like just angry comments and like mean remarks, but like I went on there, everyone is super nice. And then Alex goes on and I'm reading the comments. Everyone was like W Alex, go Alex, hi Alex. It's really friendly. I wasn't expecting that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, when I have the animal streams, that's when the wholesome people come out. Really? The degenerates don't care about those streams. They're far away. They'll come trash talk my gameplay or Okay. my bikini or something, but they they come to animals though, everyone's pretty nice. Is there like a time of day thing where in the afternoon like you get more of like the friendly people whereas at night you get like the degen's or like is way more friendly. Morning's friendly cuz Europeans, they they're they're nicer culture. Got it. They're a finer breed of chat, you know? Yeah. So, tell us a bit of your background. Like how did you get started doing all of this? Oh, I started in 2016. I started doing Twitch back then um cuz at the time I was already cosplaying a lot. I had like a little bit of an Instagram following, a little bit of like Facebook. DeviantArt used to be a like art photography platform. I don't know if you remember that. I do. Back in the day. Now no one cares about it. Mhm. But I had a tiny following there, but back then it wasn't really saturated like it is now. So a small following was still like, "Whoa, you have a thousand followers. Wow, right?" Nowadays though, too many people. So Twitch was trying to expand their creative program. Uh now you might people watching this now will be like, "Wait, that was a thing?" Exactly, they stopped caring about it pretty fast. But they invited cosplayers to it and they wanted us to make costumes on live stream in their creative category and the incentive was that if you come on and you create costumes, we will lower the amount required to hit partnership of view counts cuz it used to be 500 viewers concurrent gaming Mhm. to get partner. Okay. But with creative, it was only 100 concurrent viewers. So what's a partnership do? It gives you sub benefits. You get like more of the revenue split. You get emotes and stuff. So basically you can monetize your channel at that point. But until then, could you could you monetize it all or just wasn't as good? Only donations. Got it. Okay. So you didn't get any sub money? Not until we were partner, yeah. Really? Wouldn't that unincentivize people from like subbing though? Well, you they couldn't subscribe unless you're a partner. subscribe. Right. Oh, wow. Yeah, now they have an affiliate program. But before there was no affiliate, it was just partnership or bust, basically. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, so that got you onto Twitch? Yeah. And then after they stopped doing the creative program push, um IRL category started surging up. So I kind of just like switched into that with my uh partnership already that I had gotten kind of like on easy street or whatever cuz it was I I kind of got in there before most people could. And so that kind of propelled me forward. And then IRL was just going off, which is in real life people who don't know Twitch. Mhm. And that was when you started having people doing non-gameplay activities like going out, kind of like live vlogging Yeah. at conventions or traveling or just talking to people to to the chat without playing a game was considered IRL. Yeah. Was that common before Ice Poseidon cuz he was the one that kind of introduced me to that whole like IRL streaming. Him and was it Andy Milonakis? Yeah. I think. That was yeah. Yeah, and we would see him cuz I used to work in Sunset Boulevard and I would see him with the selfie stick. Mhm. Yeah, cuz he's walking on Sunset Plaza and he had the the selfie stick with like like three cameras and like lights shining on him. That's crazy. was always like walking up and down the street and then he'd go to like a restaurant and just sit there and place it down on the table. And it was usually like just him and he'd be talking to it while ordering food. It's wild. Yeah. That's cool you saw him. But I was but I was always too afraid to go up and say hi. Oh, yeah, yeah. But you knew who he was. yeah, oh yeah. He's hard to not recognize cuz people are just like, "Who is this 12-year-old out here?" Who is this 40-year-old lady? Yeah, I remember him from MTV. Yeah. He had the MTV show. So what were you doing at the time to sustain yourself or was Twitch enough? Well, right before Twitch, I was running a character company for children's birthday parties. So like it would be Disney without saying Disney, right? The copyright free terms for Cinderella, like Snow White, um Elsa and Anna, like Frozen, you know? So you would dress up like you would go present at a And then I had girls too who would work for me and then we would all go to parties and do events. And we would do a Make-A-Wish Foundation stuff. We would do like festivals around Houston. Um I got to be on like a TLC show, The Little Couple. They had a birthday party and they hired me to be there as the Snow Queen, Elsa. Um it was really cool cuz I got to throw the first pitch in the Astros game as Elsa cuz they had like a mommy and me day. Sure. So it was really cool opportunities like that and Did that make good money? It was pretty good money for like a non-social media. Now we all have expectations of what's good money is completely skewed. But back then it was like $200 for an hour. Are you sure like that's fantastic? Even with social media money, I mean that's still decent. Right, but only on weekends, right? Right. But still but like it actually you do that like two hours, like $400 a weekend is fantastic. Yeah, it was crazy good margins, too, cuz then you would get the costume and you could wear that for like a year or two years before you'd replace it. Right. So it was actually incredibly profitable for the time, but the unfortunate thing is well, fortunate for me, not fortunate people who stayed in the industry, things like COVID are a big um killer of that industry cuz then people just stopped having parties for a year, two years, three years. So that really sucked, but fortunately I made the switch before COVID hit. Yeah. Yeah, but it was super fun cuz I would get to go to these extravagant parties. It would be like big homes like this sometimes, like in nice neighborhoods, and they would have a carriage waiting for Cinderella to come in. So it's like you got to be worshipped and get paid, basically. What were the kids like when they hired this out? Like Most of the kids were really nice. Oh yeah, most of the kids would listen to you more than they listen to their parents. They respected the royalty. I believe it. Wow. So So how much would the parents spend in one of those parties? Like I'd imagine this is like a $3,000 kids birthday party. Oh, probably more than that when you get into like the like the River Oaks neighborhood. It's like they're really nice neighborhoods for Houston area, like Jesus, these houses alone are probably like five to ten million dollar range. You can imagine this how much they throw to a kid party. I think some of them honestly cost at least $10,000 for like a four-year-old's birthday party. That's crazy. I don't even remember being for. Yeah, cuz they would have multiple princesses. They would have the horse-drawn carriage. They would have the face painter. They would have the bouncy houses. They would have the catering, the decorations. Sometimes they would bring in a petting zoo. Um is this like a birthday party, a standard birthday party? For the rich person, yes. The rich people houses, yeah. Okay, so you were doing that work and then you switched over to Twitch. When did you make that switch? What was like the Twitch income versus that income that you can justify going all in on Twitch? Well, I was doing both for a bit um and then I guess I was doing Twitch for about six months. So uh beginning of 2017 is when I kind of decided that I'm going to switch from going to the parties myself to doing the streaming thing and I'll just send to my girls out. So So I was still managing it, but um and then I was streaming full-time instead. Did you own the company that you did? Yes. Wow. Yeah. And so what would you pay the other princesses? Like they would just pay you a package deal and you'd pay the people underneath you less. Yeah, like starting out was like probably 60 an hour and then I'm still pretty good if you're just like dressing up. And then it would go up to like 75 or 80 an hour too if they been with me for a while. Good business. Yeah, it's a good deal. find you? Did you market? Like how did you grow it? I got into it via Facebook advertising, a little bit of Google advertising too. That's actually how I got the idea to just go full-time into social media cuz I was already using the skills of social media marketing with my business. And I was thinking like this is the future is everything's going to be online moving that way. If I have this skill, I should just go into the social media full-time, go straight to the source rather than just using it to market a limited business that can't really grow beyond Houston without a bunch of hassle and headache thinking about licensing and Where did you get that mindset though? Cuz not everyone thinks like that. Like where did that start? You have parents that thought that way? It's like some you saw someone else do that and you're like that's a good idea. I think I saw it mostly cuz um I would I would be in a lot of these cosplay groups and a lot of the cosplayers were doing this kind of thing too, but in other states like California. And they would be really popular. Um California was a big one. I think Florida was a big one where the parks are, right? But so they would know they would be able to go to the park frequent enough to know what the characters look like, know how to model the costumes, know how to act and everything, but then be able to bring that into like a party atmosphere. And it was a very hot market because it's so much cheaper for some parents to hire the princess for 200 an hour than it is to take their whole family to Disney for the day, you know? And pay for all their friends. the business aspect of it. Like where did you get that from? I think it's just that growing up as a kid? No, no, no, no, no. I I was not at all. I think it was just from watching, observing. Like seeing how they were expanding their businesses and like how they were advertising. So I would get their Facebook advertisements like suggested. I would be like in their groups. They actually have groups for it. So I was just watching and observing the different princess company groups and seeing how they were advertising and stuff. And then I I tried it myself and I found it very effective. I don't think it's nearly as effective now Facebook advertising. They have raised prices a lot. But before I could put like 10 to 50 dollars into a Facebook advertisement and make like a thousand dollars in party bookings. Although before we go to that guys, sorry for the interruption. I do have to say that lately I've been taking my health a lot more seriously. I've been going to the gym, getting a good night's sleep, and I've been eating a lot healthier. With their sponsor Factor. I recently went on vacation with Jack actually and I came back and I was like 7 pounds heavier and it was from not going to the gym, eating a lot, and I just became kind of lazy. So when I got back, been getting really into fitness and Factor is something I've really, really, really enjoyed. They sent us a whole bunch of their meals and I have to say I'm obsessed with them. Factor's meals are also ready in just 2 minutes. So all you have to do, take one of these out from the refrigerator, put it in the microwave, 2 minutes later it's ready to eat and tastes really good. You have to try it to truly appreciate it, but it is really, really, really good. They make meeting your nutrition goals easier than ever by delivering fresh, never frozen, dietitian approved meals right to your doorstep. Their team of gourmet chefs create each meal using only ingredients with integrity to help you feel your best all day long. When I'm trying to decide what I want to eat, I take into account three things: how affordable it is, how quickly I can get it, and also how nutritious it is. And Factor actually checks all three of those boxes when usually I only need to check two. You can even choose from more than 34 chef-prepared, dietitian approved weekly options featuring premium ingredients such as broccolini, leeks, truffle butter, and asparagus. Or you could also try the beverage options with smoothies, shakes, and juices. Factor saves me a ton of time and a ton of money. I would highly recommend it. If you're curious what it tastes like, we have a link down below in the description or you can go to factor75.com and use the code ICH50 for 50% off your first order. Enjoy. And now with that said, let's get back to the podcast. Have you always been interested in business? Not really, no. I think it just happened when I was like going to school for costuming, was looking for money on the side because eventually my my dream was to do like Hollywood like costumes, you know, for Marvel or for like Lord of the Rings type stuff. So I was kind of just trying to figure out how do I take my costuming skills right now and start making money because I'm not at that stage of my life. And then it kind of just rabbit holed me down into like the business side of costumes like with princess stuff and cosplay. And then that led to social media. So it kind of just all like piled together unintentionally for me and I was just watching and observing and then trying it. I was like, oh. Did you ever have a normal job? Um the most normal was working at the opera and ballet making costumes. Like I guess. And then um I worked for some other companies before doing my own princess company. Like I was an I was just like a contractor, not really an employee, but I would be the performer without owning the business or owning the costumes. And then I was just like I could run this. These I can make better costumes than these. And I just kind of did it. Huh. Were you a good student like throughout middle school, high school? Yeah, pretty good student I would say. Um yeah, I think high school I was like all in all the AP classes and then um for a while I was number one in my class and then I and then I got lazy and I dropped to number 20 when I graduated, but it was there was there was like eight to 900 kids in the class, so I guess it's still pretty good. Number 20 is very good. Yeah. What happened there? Why did you get lazy? Seemed all right to me. tired, yeah. Really? Yeah, I got tired of that. I'm yeah. Your aspirations in high school were to become a costume maker for a Yeah, so it was like this I realized like none of this matters. It's it's like it's like a flow. Just like in one direction you're like heading true north and you're like okay, just stop here, stop here, stop here. But for the most part you kind of like just like slowly progressed. Yeah, cuz I I got involved in theater in high school. Cuz I was first I was like do I want to be an actress? And I was like maybe, but I kind of like the aspect of dressing up and like the creation behind it. So then I was kind of leaning more towards into the costuming side of theater. Did your parents have any expectations of you of like, you know, we want you to be a doctor or a lawyer like anything like or were they like very free that you could pursue what you felt was best? They're pretty free. They just wanted me to figure it out so at some point I could stop living under their roof. Okay. They were not really picky though what I did. Um and I think that's standard for parents who also were not like particularly high-achieving. So I know if your parent was like a lawyer or a doctor or had a very successful business, they like have expectations for you. But for my parents, my mom was a preschool teacher for like her whole career and my father worked with computers and IT, but not like coding or anything crazy like that, just like software testing. So it wasn't like either of them were super entrepreneurial or like super um I guess educated one like an advanced level with like doctorates and things like that, so. Did they ever teach you about money? No, not really. How did you learn about money? Did you have to have like a good education even going through and running your own business? Yeah, a lot of it was um I had an uncle who was actually running his own small businesses, not like anything super big scale, but that's kind of how I got started like learning about the business side and social media marketing cuz he had to do it. He was actually a dog walker. But it's like how do you let people know about that? You have to start it with social media. So I would like listen to him talk about money and stuff and then I would kind of like do when I started doing my own business with the princess stuff, I'd have to look around like on Google and like figure out things like how to do taxes and things like that. So just like I learned as I went. I didn't have like a formal education. If I just need if I needed to figure something out, I would just Google it. Were you always self-reliant when it came to that sort of stuff? Yeah, I was pretty self-reliant I guess cuz you know, none of none of my family is particularly successful. Yeah. So I didn't really have anyone to turn to. I was just like, well, let me just go to Google and YouTube and things like that and just try to have things explained to me cuz for me it's like I went to school for costume design, which is not also not particularly a good avenue for learning anything with finance or business related at all. So what do they teach you in costume design? Just like what materials to use? I feel like that Mhm. Maybe this is insensitive. All right, here we go, Jack. I feel like look, I take one semester, right? And I learn what materials for what colors for what like volume, like how voluminous you want something to be. That's kind of like Right? It wasn't that basic. It was more like it's actually really interesting cuz it went through fashion history. So you learn different periods of like historical fashion like Georgian, you learn like like the Regency period, the Victorian age. It's like super interesting to see how the the fashion tastes evolved. And then it went from like being very basic like togas and stuff like with Greece. And then it evolved into let's put a bunch of layers on and cinch it all up. And then it got very lax again in like the 1900s. Where do you think we're headed? I was going to say I think honestly I think in the future we're going to get in like it's not going to be wet suit material like neoprene, but I think it's going to be like a one suit you just step in and then your entire it's like a it's like a morph morph suit or whatever, but like more comfortable and utility wise. Do you know where it conforms Yeah. Yeah. And then you can like yeah, it's like super aerated and breathable and stuff like that. Yeah, I think we're going towards that honestly. I think we're going straight utility and then people are going to think it's cool. I was about to say I think we're going back to the 90s fashion. That's what I was about to say. What does that look like? Like old kind of Yeah, like the more old school stuff. It's so weird like the Tik Tok kids, they all look like my 90s It's like big washed jeans. Yeah, the tie-dye and like yeah. High-waisted, yeah, like white sneakers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, one day we're going to go back to the Ed Hardy days where it's like the shirt designs. You know that's going to come back at some point. With the flames or whatever. With the lion, with the you know, jewels. It's going to come back. You used to wear that, huh? I had the shirts, the t-shirts that had like the design prints on the one side. Looking back, it's awful. Yeah. What was I thinking with the baggy jeans? Yeah, that was a great look, man. So. So let's talk about the Twitch success. Was your Was your growth linear or was it exponential? What methods did you use to grow on Twitch? Cuz I heard We've had a couple Twitch people on here, right? I think one of them said like what you have to do is just stream for as long as possible because like then people they like open up the stream and then they leave or they walk to the you know the nearby McDonald's or something, but their stream is running like on the computer. But what strategies did you use to grow on Twitch? It's a bit complicated because while that in theory is the best way if you already have a following, um that is what the algorithm will reward is you stream, you stream, you stream, stream. And then that will recommend you to more and more people because it's your watched you're accumulating watch time. Even if you're not the most watch out of say like two people together. Uh say you both stream 5 hours. Just because somebody watches that person more in the 5 hours does not mean they'll get recommended more cuz what happens they log off, if you keep going, you'll eventually surpass them. So, even if you're not as popular, you know, with like view count or things like that, as long as you accumulate that those minutes of watch time, it'll build up and the algorithm will recommend you more. At least that's how it's been working when I was like really popping off. This year I've been kind of sporadic cuz I've been moving and boxing and all those things. Um but it's tough because there's no really discovery on Twitch other than the recommendation section or like if you're on a category page, people don't tend to scroll down the category. It's like the top 10 what they can see within the browser window without scrolling, that's what they pick on because people are lazy. Um so, you actually have to grow on other platforms more where there is discoverability like TikTok's a great way now. Like Twitter, Instagram. That's how I grew with Twitter, Instagram, and then a little bit of YouTube, but YouTube doesn't isn't like as easy for me because it's always changing the algorithm and it'll stop recommending if you're like too sexy, so. So, what would you do? Would you just post like cosplay stuff and and then people just found you organically through those platforms then routed you towards the the Twitch? Yeah, and also my Facebook cosplay page. But eventually I stopped doing cosplays as much because it just wasn't as profitable. It's actually It was actually really sad, but that's just the way humans are. You would make this amazing armor piece super accurate. You would dress up as this character and you would get maybe like 5,000 likes. And then you dress up in a Misty cosplay which is a tank top and booty shorts from Walmart that took you 5 minutes to put on and it's like 30,000 likes. Why bother? Men are simple. We don't need much. Is most of the appreciation of cosplaying is that like coming from a male audience or is it a a female audience? Is it like the intricacy of the costume itself or is it just the way it looks? Like where What is the appeal? Cuz I've personally never been super interested in cosplaying, but I'm trying to understand like what why people like it. Well, I think the people that appreciate the art the most are probably women more than men because that seems to be like the type of people who go into it because it's like wow, I'm making this thing, it's so cool, it's so crafty, look, haha, it's so fun. But they tend to do it more because they can monetize it. Whereas it's harder for guys to monetize cosplays. So, you end up getting just a bunch of women who are into it mostly. And then um the audience though who looks at women's pictures and likes them and engages with them typically are men. And the men are going to respond more to the the sexy character than they are like the armored up authentic looking World of Warcraft build, right? Right. It just is. That's just the nature of sexuality, you know? So, it's tough for sure. Have you noticed that um costumes for Halloween, if you look at women's costumes, it's like sexy uh nun, sexy whatever. And then you look at men's costumes, banana. You know what I mean? It's like peanut butter and jelly sandwich or something. Funny or spooky. Funny yeah, yeah. So, do you think that that's kind of going down the wrong direction because cosplay is more than about just being sexy, right? Yeah, I think the crafting part of cosplay definitely is more about being making it for the art of it. Like if you compete, you do like competitions at conventions, it's definitely for the art of it. Or if a if you can monetize like if a gaming company hires you to to cosplay a new character and like promo it at events or on social media, then you can kind of get paid for the art of it. But for the most part, you know, the best monetization is always just going to be the sexy route. And so people will start doing this thing like bikini versions of characters. Like they'll just like make it more sexy if it's not a sexy character. To me it's like I think I approach it from a very logical standpoint. If If your goal is viewership, how do you gain the most viewership? If that's the way to do it, that's the way to do it. It's like I just look at what works. to look at your motives, right? Are you trying to make the most amount of money that you can while you're young and then do whatever you want to enjoy or are you trying to share your love of the art and that's all you care about is sharing that love and finding people who also resonate. If you have other things going on in your life, you don't need it for money, whatever. Yeah. Or if you want to just go the the harder route and monetize the actual character part cuz people will do that. They'll just have a different type of Patreon or whatever or Etsy if they do commissions themselves or if they do tutorials for making stuff. Like it can be done. It's just typically not as much money as quickly. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's very it's perfectly reasonable like to if they want to do it, they can make a lot of money doing it compared to like a 9-to-5. Yeah. But we're not talking about like millions a month OnlyFans low profit margins low time spent like just like super profitable in that direction. So, it just depends what you want. Yeah. So, how long do you think it took for you to make like six figures or like a six-figure salary on a monthly basis on Twitch? Was it like 6 months, a year? Oh, on Twitch it's harder cuz on Twitch it didn't really start getting that to the six-figure mark from Twitch alone until hot tub meta. Uh that was I think 2021, I believe, yeah. And that kind of exploded. So, after I think after I crossed like 6,000 concurrent viewers or whatever at the time is when you started getting into the six-figure 6,000 concurrent viewers? Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah, and I was only hitting the six figures um monetarily too because I was streaming for so long. So, what was your schedule like? Like when did you begin to realize that like streaming more is better? I started realizing that around I guess late 2017, 2018 cuz I I've been streaming like really long since then. Cuz when I first started streaming I was doing maybe 3 to 5 hours at a time. Just trying it out, playing some games, cosplaying, making costumes. And then I I rose it to like 8 hours, 10 hours, 12 hours. Sometimes I would do like 14, 18 hours. Sometimes I would be on even longer if I did a sleep stream. Things like that. Could you explain a sleep stream? Where you just literally sleep on stream. So, you're streaming You keep the camera on while you're sleeping. But It's like a virtual slumber party. we should sleep stream tonight. I would be down to sleep stream tonight. I'm We don't have an audience to stream to. Yeah, we just post on Instagram like hey, check out our sleep stream. I want the donations. Like I want that on my stream on YouTube. Well, like we just do it on Twitch. I don't want one dude just watching us One dude just watching us the whole night. Yeah, waiting for Alex to like roll on to his side. So, what's the Okay, what's the appeal of sleep streams? Like why do people tune into that? Um different models because for guys, they typically get more money doing it because their chat's trying to mess with them. And so their chat will be like playing react content. Like they'll be doing media share to try to wake the guy up or just to make each other laugh. But girls' chats' environments aren't quite as like haha bumping elbows buddy-buddy. They're more like I don't know what the word is. Uh sexual, So, they'll be like like what if she just starts taking off her top right now forgets she's streaming. Oh my god. She forgets she's streaming. Yeah, she could forget she's live. But people are commenting this. Yeah, stuff like that. Or like what I would do to her right now like while she's sleeping. Some people are really creepy. And others are like why are you guys watching this? Y'all are weird. They're like criticizing each other for watching it while they're watching it. It's kind of funny. So, do you get a good night of sleep when you're sleep streaming? Cuz I feel like I could just not sleep. I do. I have this incredible talent to fall asleep anywhere regardless of how much light, how much noise, how whatever's happening. So, I I can get a pretty good night's sleep. I actually used to get more sleep doing that than not because I would have chat hit sub goals to let me sleep longer to justify not being productive for those hours. Okay. Woah. So, I could get like 9, 10 hours of sleep. And how much would you make in a sleep stream? Uh I don't know. It's hard to quantify that cuz I never broke it down like that cuz it would just be one continuous like 24-hour, 48-hour stream. were to just guess. I'd say probably uh if you count just on Twitch, probably I don't know, like a couple thousand dollars. But if you count like the conversions potentially to OnlyFans while I'm sleeping cuz they're clicking on links and whatever, um then maybe like 10 to 15,000. That's wild. So, why not just do that every night? I would see like 10 grand a night and say I may as well do this now. Like I'm not going to do it forever, but like hey, every single night. The the scheduling gets complicated. And then also um cuz I have photo shoots and stuff I have to do like the next morning sometimes or if I'll have sponsorship things coming up. it when you wake up? Like wake up and be like all right, stream, thanks so much. I'm up now. See you. That was an angle. Potentially maybe. That's a good idea. But maybe I maybe I just switch to I only stream my sleeping and then I Yeah, I don't. How's it working while you're sleeping? Has there been a time though where you've woken up and forgot that you were streaming or does that not happen? No, it's never happened. Never so far. Um I don't do it as much. I don't know. I feel like if you do it too much, it would become no longer novelty. Okay. But maybe what I would should do instead is I should just invite girls over for sleepovers and we only stream us doing like getting ready for bed activities, sleepover stuff, and then we stop streaming when we wake up. Then you can call it sleeping with whoever in the title. Yeah. Genius. genius. That's actually a good idea. I think if you were to stream yourself sleeping, that's a untapped opportunity that I think so many people could get on because you're not doing anything anyway. So, you may as well be working while you sleep. Mhm. I think that's the most useful Why don't you do it, Alex? I'm not going to stream myself. I'm just saying just in general. I think the same thing over and over. Sleep stream only. Like you start it an hour before bed and then you end it like, you know, 30 minutes after you wake up. Who's going to tune into that after like four times? Okay, so Graham has this idea in his in his brain. He's always been this way where he's just like do more, post more content. It's about the the frequency and the volume. It works because it's it's a treat, right? It's once in a while people sleep. Right. Like I I think that there's power in that. When the door's open, you walk through the door. That's what I think. I I And whether that's right Well, then stop. But you can leave the door open, right? And No, I don't think so. I think social media is one of the Yeah. What could work to change it up? While we're sleeping, different girls coming over we're sleeping. Maybe I hire people to come in and do random stuff in the middle of the night. Yeah. Yeah, like if you get like up to X amount of donat- donations or whatever, like something happens or whatever. Yeah, like the top donations, like a mariachi band comes through the door and just Yeah, yeah, but you have to But you have to have them on standby. I mean, that's the thing. Yeah, but you're making that kind of cost. Yeah, but you're making it back. You got to look at the numbers on that. I just I just really like don't think that like people would watch her every single night if she's just doing that every single night. Yeah. Do you do you agree? Yeah, I do. Okay. All right. I think I'm talking about Okay. If it was with other people, then maybe. What other kind of like variety streams would you do? Um Cuz you you you jumped on the the What was it? The hot tub? Yeah. Did you Did you come up with that? Or No. No. I We already been doing like pool streams, but um one of the girls decided to do like inflatable hot tub and they were doing it outside. And I didn't The thing I did pioneer was moving it inside where you can control the lighting, control the Wi-Fi, control everything. You don't have to like move ring lights outside. I'm just like just put it in my room. Put the hot tub on the ground. And then that's what everybody started copying that because it is just so much easier. You don't You don't depend on the weather. Your ring light's already right there. You're right next to your setup. The Wi-Fi is better. How long could you be in the jacuzzi for? 12 hours. 12 hours? How would you not turn into a prune? Uh I would. You would? I just didn't care. Was it painful at all? Like you cuz I would get out like after Graham would be just completely devastated getting saying, when you when you're in water for that long, your hands and feet shrivel up to a point where it's like it could be painful. It's not painful Okay, I want to What temperature was the water? Was it like a 95? at like 104 when heated up all the way, but then throughout the day it would If cuz you don't want to have it on cuz it's really noisy. Yeah. It's like like the whole time. So, I would turn it off when I start the stream. And then throughout the day it would get down to like 70°. Oh, wow. Eventually, yeah. How much did your numbers go up when you started doing that? I went from like maybe like anywhere from like 4 to 5,000 viewers concurrently before the hot tub to then at one point it was hitting like 20 22K. Yeah. Was that like Was that COVID days? Yes. Wow. Yeah, it was pretty crazy. And so but how do you one-up that? Cuz is there that pressure where it's like you're doing that well and you're like what's next? How could I like keep on this this same path? Yeah, well at the time it the drama aspect was kind of doing the job for us. We didn't really have to innovate much because people were acting like it was such a controversial topic like hot tubs while in the same category as me that looks so bad to sponsors, blah. They were like really angry about it. Um and so that drama of trying to get the hot tubs banned, people complaining about it so much online kind of kept the interest alive for the hot tub segment cuz the give viewers coming in be like what is this segment doing? What is this stuff? Then they would like just start arguing in the chat whether the hot tub should even be allowed on Twitch or not. Um and then when they finally when Twitch decided to make the hot tub category and shove us all in there is when people really stopped doing it because the discovery went down, Interesting. Now, what was the reason for the hot tub in the first place? Uh I think it's just a way to kind of subtly convert people to your OnlyFans. I did not find out about you through the hot tub drama that was going on. How I I found out about you was this um this bath water thing. Oh, yes. Now, when did this come into play? Uh because that like made headlines. I was like, oh this person's selling bath water. When did this come into play in terms of like Was it um when you first started Twitch? Was it in the middle of it? And also, did you actually did you make sales? Yeah, I made a lot of sales. Um that actually was more recent compared to the rest of my career. I think that was last year. Maybe like early 2022. Or maybe maybe late '21. Somewhere like that. It was kind of blends in for me. But um there was a woman who was doing fart jar sales. Um and she Is it bell? Um that was that was the original bath water one. Okay. But there was a woman doing fart jar sales at the time. And she was supposedly making a pretty good amount of money like like I don't know, a couple hundred thousand dollars from it. But then she stopped one day and she claimed that her diet to make her make so many fart jars hospitalized her. I think she actually got COVID and changed the reason why she was in the hospital personally. But then she decided to switch to NFT fart jars which were not as successful and I don't know how that would work anyways. Um and so I kind of took over the vacant spot available for fart jar selling. I was like, well now with her out of the market Your competition. The demand is incredibly high. And um I I joined that and then I was like, well I'm at it since I have all these jars and I sit in a hot tub, I might as well sell my hot tub water. All right, so we'll go Wait, wait, wait, wait. All right, I want to ask her first of all How's the audio sound? Is she close enough to the mic? going to ask her if she could just come in a little closer. Oh, shh. I'm sorry. We're leaving that in. We're leaving that in. Sorry about that. Nice catch. See, if I did that, Graham would be He'd be like, Jack, how could you? How could you, Jack? slipped like this and then I went to save it and I overcorrected. Sorry about that. It'll make for a great clip. What do you think about the ethics of porn? Is it ethical? Is it unethical? Cuz when we shot with Brett Cooper, she was sharing her opinion on why porn is unethical. Oh, what were her thoughts on that? She thought basically it kind of like promoted the objectification of women and that it's not good for the young male mind to see women, especially like on your phone, you know, the the high availability of porn just like on your mobile device. of it, I think, too. Exactly. Wherever you want to watch it, you can watch it. And I think that she thinks it's also like corrupting a family unit because like then guys can just like instead of finding a girlfriend or feeling an urge to find a romantic partner, um just going on their phone and getting that instant gratification and moving on to the next day. Yeah, I don't know. It It just depends, I guess, what you're looking at. Um I can also see the side though where it's actually better for guys to be able to have that kind of sexual release because then if say they're really bad at socializing and they're not quite all there, they get that frustration, those urges out in private instead of bothering women in real life and potentially doing something crazy because they're so frustrated, you know. Um so I don't know. I can see both sides, I guess. As far as the ethics of it, I don't think it's unethical if both people are consenting and they're happy about like what they're putting out there and the amount of money they're getting paid or whoever's involved. It doesn't have to be two people. Could be an orgy. I don't know. Or solo, whatever. Um I think nowadays it's actually even more ethical because instead of these big companies making porn and controlling like the financial aspects of it and people getting ripped off who are at the performers, now they can just make their OnlyFans and set their own prices to whatever they're happy with and do whatever they want on their own terms. So, I think it's actually getting more ethical as like the sexy platforms where the individual is able to monetize by themselves coming up. So, you argue that it could be a benefit for people watching porn, specifically dudes, because then maybe it like kind of it's that sexual release rather than releasing it at a time where it would be highly inappropriate. Yeah, maybe they do have a date planned, but they they they do their beforehand. So, then when they go to the date, they're not just thinking about how to get in her pants only, right? Maybe that's like that release is done and they can actually focus on the interaction if they do want a genuine connection rather than just being, you know, horn dogs the whole time cuz they're so frustrated, I don't know. I feel like it it can only be beneficial because if it's was If porn didn't exist, they would find something to fap to still. I feel like the answer is not to remove fappable content. I'm sure even back in the caveman days, it's like scriptures on the cave and like that would be They found like erotic caveman erotic with like stick figures on a wall of like doggy style. Yeah, prostitution, too. It's been around a super long time. So, it's like commerce just with sex in general. Has just always been around. Yeah. No, definitely. I feel like it's actually um the creation of porn and allowing people to just make it freely like OnlyFans and stuff has actually reducing the need for people to feel like they have to be prostitutes to get money cuz instead of actually having sex with people on the street, now they can just upload a video and make money, you know? Mhm. I think it's everything in moderation. Yeah, as long as it's not getting in the way of your job. Right, but that's also up to the the individual's discretion. Right. Right. So, like to determine when It's just it's an issue versus when it's not an issue. Self-control and cutting yourself off. too. Me, too. I just like let people do what they want in their personal life. could see how like porn could actually keep a relationship together because say like the couple's very busy or they just the magic of like the intimacy is gone, but they still get along as a couple. Instead of him leaving to go find a mistress, maybe he just faps to porn and then they stay together. Mhm. So, I don't know. I see both sides. I don't see it doesn't have to be home-wrecking. I feel like people who are going to be home-wreckers are probably going to be cheaters or whatever regardless whether if there's porn out there or not. Mhm. So. Yeah, I tend to agree with that. I don't think that would be the sole reason. Yeah. Unless, of course, you just get carried away with it. Right, but that's an addiction that can happen It's not the porn thing. Interesting. Yeah. Addic- People who are going to be addicted to something could be like any addicted to drugs or gambling or whatever it is. Okay, this might be an uncomfortable question, but like I said, you're welcome to not answer it if you want to. I just figured Yeah, I just figured it'd be kind of an intriguing question to ask. Let's say you have a daughter. Would you be comfortable with your daughter doing the same thing that you do for an occupation? Oh, I would definitely be comfortable with that. You'd be totally fine. Yeah, I would be totally fine with that because she's I would she's able to do it from the comfort of her own home. She's not having to go out and put herself in like weird situations to try to make money cuz it's like sometimes, you know, in like the the business world, we've seen women who feel like pressure to sleep with the boss or whatever to climb their way up socially. It's like with online stuff, she can make however much money she wants doing whatever she wants cuz there's a lot of people who make their money and they don't even have to like go all the way. Maybe they just post sexy pictures. You know, just whatever she's comfortable with, you know, in the comfort of her own home with whoever is consenting and she gets to decide that. that's awesome. Gives her the power to do it anywhere she wants without having to feel like she's a slave to the 9-to-5 grind that you know, the rest of society often gets sucked into. I think it's cool. If she was down for it, be like, "Okay." I'd just give her some advice on how to put her identity out there in a way that doesn't give away like her address and her full name. Like give her like a internet safety guidance. It's like, "Okay, here you go." You've had some interesting run-ins with that cuz didn't didn't you have a like a fan set a trash can on fire or something? Yeah, it was. Yeah, I had arson. You had an arson incident. Yeah. Okay, so that's not a common thing. Graham has never experienced an arson incident. What was What was that like? Uh it was very strange cuz I heard a loud bang. I was playing video games. I think I was playing Diablo III when it came out and I was in my room, but I heard like a bang from like outside somewhere. And so, I went to go look. I couldn't figure out what it was. As I got closer to the kitchen where like the driveway is, I started to smell burning. And I'm like, "Did I leave the oven on? Did I leave the stove on? Like is there a heater that's left on somewhere? Like what is happening?" And I couldn't figure it out cuz like nothing was on. Nothing was in the attic. Didn't smell like a heater going crazy. And then I looked out my kitchen window cuz I had like the blinds on it. I had to pull back the blinds and my trash can was on fire. And unfortunately, it was in a the one spot where I didn't have a camera. The one spot. Did they know that? Possibly. Yeah. I feel like they were probably trying to find something to do. Um cuz my trash can wasn't at the street. They had to come up like to the in the driveway. Interesting. Near Like and then the bang was because it exploded against the garage door. And like the metal reverberating. No way. Yeah. And so, like I I had a in the trash can? Uh I think there was like uh some alcohol bottles. Okay. So, if they dropped like a match in there type of thing or something. Okay. Or like maybe they had something also like that would burn like some if they dropped a bottle in or something. Okay. Not sure. Um cuz there was already some bottles in there already. So, like all the things that could have blown up were like already in the trash can anyways. But, yeah, that's what the police suspected cuz it happened like in the mid- like in the middle of the night and it it wasn't in a place where it would overheat cuz it was covered like under the garage awning. So, it wasn't like the sun beating down. Okay. So, yeah, it was very scary though cuz it was literally like 5 in away from my Jeep tire and then also 2 in away from grass. Oh, man. Wow. Yeah. It was just like a perfect like melt down not touching anything. Jeez, that's freaky. And like the trash can melted to the point where it then became like a flat piece of like melted together plastic with all the contents inside. Like Like on top of it, looked like a work of like modern art almost cuz it was just about this big. how long was it on fire for? Uh I think about 30 minutes. And what was really unfortunate is that because I get swatted so much, when I called in about this, the police didn't take it seriously at first. This is before I made the safe word. Yeah. And so, they thought that I was a prankster myself. Wow. Yeah, that was an issue. So, they the police were like 5 minutes away, right? And it took them like 20 minutes to come out and put the fire out. Yeah. Did you not want to go out there with like a hose and just like spray it down? I didn't know if the person did it was still lurking around. Mhm. Sure. Yeah, cuz it was the night time. It was dark. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Tricky. What are some other experiences you've had or some like let's say unexpected uh let's unexpected things that would happen that come with like this level of fame. Um I guess I guess more expected, but another thing that had to deal with was stalkers showing up at the house. That has been super scary cuz there was a I don't know if you read about it. The guy from Estonia. There was a guy from Estonia who I had had convinced himself that he was going to marry me. And he had sold all of his possessions back in Estonia, even his house. Even sold his cat or did something with his cat, got rid of it. And he brought just like himself, I guess, some clothes and um like a like a saxophone case cuz he played saxophone to America and was just streaming himself trying to find me, trying to get me to come find him. He'd put where he was in his titles of his stream. And it was like um like Alec plus Caitlyn forever. Was Plus Amouranth forever. The title would change sometimes. Be like, "At this Starbucks waiting for you." Was he getting viewers? He'd get like four or five, but that's enough of viewers to like uh to attract haters to egg him on and try to dox me and stuff. And they did. They they they gave him my address cuz I my you know, I've swatted, so it's already doxed. And then he showed up trying to break into my house essentially. Like to him, I'm sure he felt like you know, he wasn't trying to cause harm, but it's like when someone's that crazy, they can be harmful. Yeah. And so, he was trying to like get into the house. He would try to open the doors, try to like go around to the windows, like tap on the windows, try to find a way to get in cuz he felt like he was there and that I was going to be his wife. Was he Was he like I mean, obviously he's not mentally sound. What happened to the guy? I called police on him and they detained him. The first time, uh they took him somewhere, I guess, and then they dropped him off, I guess, somewhere like away from my house and he was issued a like a trespassing um what but like order? I don't know what it is. or Something like that. that. Yeah. And so, then he disappeared for like a restraining order. a year and then he came back. The same thing again. Try to come to my house and everything. Called the police on him and this time they like they arrested him actually. And they threw him in a jail cell. Is he still in jail? I don't think so. He has been released. Wouldn't he be like deported? You would think that, but apparently they don't do that unless it's like a felony. And apparently stalking and trying to break in your house is not a felony. can he get like a travel visa to the United States? I have no idea. Like there's got to be a limit where he's got to go back. You would think so. I don't know what that limit is, though. the it's not the responsibility of the local police to check your visa status. Oh. Unless there's something that triggers it like a like a felony. Got it. Interesting. that's not their job. They don't have a database of your legal status here. Got it. When was the last time he tried like tried to do anything? It was like March. Wait, like recent? Recent. I also have the big guard dog, too. That guard dog was scary. That was freaky. is so attuned to knowing when something is wrong because the first time that the guy showed up at my house, he hadn't even come up to the door yet. He was walking up the driveway quietly cuz we saw on the those camera footage after what he was doing. And my dog, the second he stepped foot onto the driveway part where it starts going up the ramp, my dog started freaking out barking. And he couldn't even see him. No window, no nothing. Like just enclosed in a room, he just heard it and knew. Wow. Yeah, I would not want to come face-to-face with that dog. Yeah, I know. That was horrifying. Face-to-face. Face-to-face with that dog. It was horrifying. So, I see you're going to be boxing in August, right? No, July 1st. July Is it July 1st? By 1 month. That's coming up. So, how did So, what led up to that? Why why say yes to boxing? Well, it was a really cool invite from Spanish streamers, like actual Spain. And they invited me to participate in their version of Creator Clash kind of. It's called La Velada. It's the third time they're doing it, third year. And the before like their boxing event, do you think Creator Clash is big? No, no, no, no. It's not big. La Velada gets like 2 to 3 million concurrent viewers. Oh my god. Just for the online portion. And this year they're having it at the biggest stadium in Madrid. It's like a brand new football stadium, soccer, whatever you want to call it. 60,000 seats. Sold out within an hour. Who else is fighting? Like how big of a thing is this? Um it's mostly Spanish streamers, so most Americans won't really know them. Isn't streaming huge in Spain, though? Oh, yeah, it's big. That's what I thought. Yeah, they have some really good streamers. Yeah. Yeah, Ibai is the one hosting it. He's got so many viewers all the time. He's huge. He He's Spanish streamers are so big to where they get invited to just like cover the the professional football games over there. Like they go on the field, they interact with the players, they get their own VIP room to stream reacting to the games. Yeah, no, they're huge. They're like celebrities over there. Wow. Like actual like celebrities. Like people think like, "Oh, streamer, YouTuber, celebrity." No, no, no, it's not the same. So, how much of this for you boxing is like a business move to get your brand out there and get your name out there versus like this is a personal thing that I want to do to say like I have Okay. It's probably about like 40% opportunity and 60% I want to do it cuz the thing that I said yes to was when I saw that they use the the helmets, cuz I know that it can still be like impact concussions, but at least less chance of a broken nose. Sure. So, I like faster physically recover time. Um and I just think it's such a cool experience to be like invited by people from a foreign country and to go to Europe Yeah. and I get to experience all that. And I'm the only American invited, so That's cool. I felt like it was a huge honor, right? So, it's like, "Oh, Okay." So, what's it like for you training right now? Uh right now I'm training Each of my sessions are 2 hours, and I'm training like three to four times a week. So, it's it's hard to balance it all cuz I I'm going to mix it up going to the gym and then my coach coming to my house. Yeah. Are you sparring at all? I'm about to be. Um yeah, we're working on that this month. Get Get as much sparring done as possible. So, I'll say I undertrained. I should have been doing like five to six days a week. Uh and I was doing 1 hours, but like five to six and sparring way more. I sparred three times before the fight, and that did not prepare me at all. Like I should have Like Michael Reeves sparred like 12 times. And Michelle sparred like 30 times. It was like a few dozen times. And she was sparring like really like good people. Yeah. I'm lucky, though, because uh Spain does not have great boxing coaches or really any boxing champions. So, her experience and her her like available resources are way less than ours are in America. Um so, her technique does not look very good. And she like physically condition-wise, I'm like much more athletic. So, it looks like I have the advantage right now. Luckily Who's your opponent? Mayichi. She's a Spanish streamer. How old is she? Same age as me, 29. Okay. We're the same height, same age, same weight technically, but very different physical condition. Sure. Yeah. So, what's the part of your training that you're doing right now? Are you doing like cardio and then the pads? It's some cardio, it's mostly technique and pads and footwork and things like that. Um yeah, just practicing the technique is the most important, so that way like you can put more power into each punch and like work on your stability so you don't just like tumble over and stuff. Yeah, for me I think the cardio is the big one because you get winded so fast. Like doing the sparring 1 minute feels like 10 minutes. Yeah, no, that's crazy. It's like the mental aspect, too. Just really gets you. When you're there, it's like everything you learn kind of goes out the window. Yeah. It's wild. Yeah, I think that a lot of it's going to come down to just instinct, which is why I'm focusing more on learning good technique rather than sparring with bad technique. So, I'm hoping like to train muscle memory, it'll just kick in when I'm like on autopilot, you know? Yeah. So, it's tough, though, to juggle that with the streaming cuz as we talked about, the time is worth so much money. Yeah. Cuz even though like they're they're they do pay for your trip and stuff, they try to compensate for your time, it's not the same Yeah. amount of money as how much my time is actually worth. Yeah. So, it's difficult. as though at least right now you're kind of not slowing down a bit, but like taking it easier. Yeah, it seems like that to people. Oh, it does? It does seem like that because they don't see how much like I'm doing on the back end. So, for me I feel like I don't have much more free time than I ever did before because now I'm just doing a bunch of different stuff. Yeah. So, yeah, the boxing takes up so much time. Yeah, for me it was the time leading up like an hour leading up to it, I couldn't work because in my mind I'm thinking, "Okay, I got to finish up this and like I I can't fully focus." Right. so that's an hour at, you know, before and then an hour after I get back, I have to shower, and then it takes me time to like get back into the Yeah, yeah, it cuts in even though training's 2 hours, it cuts into like 4 or 5 hours of the day. Oh, yeah. It's crazy. And then you do that however many times a week, it's like productivity cut in half even though you're not having more free time. Yeah. Are you nervous going into it? Not really nervous, I guess. More of excited to get it over with so that I don't feel like I have to juggle as many things. I get that. That's how I felt. Afterwards, I was so happy that it was over. Yeah. Yeah, I was so happy. But I thought if I could do that, I could do anything. Yeah. So. Yeah, cuz originally when I agreed to it, I thought I could be able to stream all of it, but it's it's hard to be able to stream all of it because you don't want your opponent to know everything. Yes. Yeah. So, then you realize like, "Oh, actually I don't want to teach them how to how to box by watching me because that's the advantage I have in America is better coaching." what Michelle did in her Did you watch her boxing video? You got to watch it. Watch her boxing video, it's like watching a movie. So, just like yeah, just for the storyline you got to watch it, but she said she hired a team of people to full-time watch uh Andrea Botez, all of her streams, just to she see if she revealed anything about her boxing training so that they could use that study against it. And she said like months into it, she released one teaser video on her stream, and the other team or or Michelle's people caught that, analyzed it, and then they adjusted her training based on that on like a quick 20 seconds out of months. It was wild. So, yeah, I mean you're you're right on terms of streaming, but uh yeah, I can't believe it. I saw it when Michael Reeves posted, he did like a quick thing on like Instagram or something like that, and went around and I showed it to my boxing coach, and he was looking at it. He's like, "Okay, we could do this. I see what he's doing. We could do this." And that's why I never posted anything on myself. Yeah. It didn't work. It didn't work anyway, but but like I can just show you personally love to. Yeah. my opponent. Now, while you're pulling that up, have you thought about monetizing your boxing by like taking like photos and Oh, that would be good. Like cuz I feel like, you know, nothing like I'm not saying anything too explicit, but like, you know, That's a good idea. be doubling up the work, you know? Yeah, that is an idea. I guess for me it's like I need someone to help facilitate that, and then that they could be making more money at home. You could you could be Yeah, if we split the the wrist wraps and stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, uh I said order sweatbands. Michelle did the the wraps with uh seek discomfort. She sold them out. Yeah. Wow. And those weren't even used. No, that's a good idea. Yeah, those were new. And those were brand new ones. They look cool, though. Good job, Michelle. They did. I thought it was a too niche of a product, but the fact that she sold out was amazing. It's really pretty crazy. Like how many people are going to buy hand wraps for boxing? But People feel inspired because she also released the the boxing program. So, if you sell that with the boxing program, people are going to buy it so that they can go train. You know what? You should buy her boxing program. Oh, that's not a bad idea. coach is does not want to release any of his teachings, otherwise he would do it himself. Have you changed up your diet since then this? Not really. I I've cut down on like sugary stuff that I can't analyze. You know, like if it's just like a smoothie or whatever, then I I I don't know the macros of it, then I won't do it. But um for the most part, I already eat pretty healthy, so I'm just like increasing protein, really. Okay. Yeah. So, it's about normal for me. We're trying to find if anyone clipped any boxing, but most of the clips are just bikini stuff. Uh How many people do you have working with you right now? To handle the whole business. Ooh, at the office, like the the one my immediate assistants, there's like four or five full-time, but then like if you do like the extended universe of Real Work, right, it's like 17 employees, roughly. And what is that What What do they do? Um they help manage accounts of other creators for their their their OnlyFans. Like they'll help send out content and stuff. Um make sure it's uploaded, get sent to fans, things like that. So, yeah, they help manage like just other creators' social media or like their paid platforms, Fanzly, OnlyFans, etc. And how do they find creators to help out? Um right now we have like girls who approach us, really, Hm. looking for management, but uh we'll also just like send out messages to people if we if it's someone like who I'm friendly with or whatever to ask if they need help with anything cuz we'll like offer like DMCA services, too. Or sometimes girls will have an issue where for some reason they've been locked out of their OnlyFans account. Like there's like a ban or something, suspension put on their account by the algorithm cuz it detected something was against TOS, and so we'll help them get back into it cuz we know the people at OnlyFans who can unban them. I think those girls that you reach out to for management, a huge perk would be they could join you in a sleep stream. So, it keeps it dynamic for you, and it's also like, you know, mutually beneficial relationship. They get the exposure of being on Twitch. It's better for everybody, you know? Yeah, they do get priorities for like collabs and things. Yeah. I heard a rumor, actually I don't know if it's so so much of a rumor, but that you watch Netflix while you're Twitch streaming. Are you watch shows? Like you're not fully present while you're doing it. Uh I I do that more during ASMR. I don't really do as much ASMR these days, but uh yeah, that has happened before. Yes, on my side monitor. If I was feeling too sleepy, I'd put on like a movie or a show. And you wouldn't explicitly tell chat like, "Hey guys, I'm watching like Not necessarily. Sometimes I would, but a lot of times I'm just like watching it while I'm like doing a little ASMR stuff. How could you How could you focus on doing two things at once like that? Well, if you've done ASMR for a long time, you realize a lot of it doesn't require focusing. So, explain me what Can you do ASMR on one of these microphones? Yeah, I'd be like scratching like Let me turn it up. Ooh, ooh, ooh. All right, go ahead. I'd be like whispering like this like scratching the microphone. I hear a plane now. Or it'd be like tapping objects, things like that. That is so satisfying. to sleep. Is it really? Yeah. They make them go to sleep or like I get stuff really close to it. I'd be like Things like that. Oh, that's so Oh my god. That's not as good. That's not as That was perfect timing. That freaked me out. I was like listening I turned it all the way up and I'm like I've never heard ASMR Alex was just like No, I've never heard about ASMR she's doing ASMR right into his ears. All right, all right. Graham, your turn for ASMR. I want to see what you got. get it. I don't get ASMR. Hey guys, make sure to subscribe and hit the like button. Just give it a gentle tap. Add me on Instagram. Oh, and add me on Snapchat as well. I'm posting vlogs on there now. So, you'll be able to get a behind the scenes. I think you just found your new channel. Graham ASMR. Smash the like button. Now. Okay, let me give it a shot, Alex. All right, before you do that, I got to say hers is way more like like I've never listened to ASMR on headphones. It's game changing. like you need more saliva in your mouth, Graham. I could tell like hers was better. All right, Jack, go ahead. Go ahead. Okay. Hey guys, check out the Iced Coffee Hour Club. icedcoffeehour.club If you guys want some exclusive content cuz we got some really exciting stuff going over there. An extra episode every single month. You can only find it there. We can even do ASMR if you guys want us to there. We're pretty flexible. Anyway, You like that? Yeah, but you laughed in the mic in my I'm sorry. ear. Anyway, that was really good. Oh, thanks. Especially that You liked it. Oh, that was good. That was good. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that's the part people like in ASMR is like when your mouth starts clicking, Yeah, yeah. They love the mouth clicks. Yeah, I heard a story about you trying to get a monopoly on like OF content or hot tub live streams because you had this back and forth with this other girl. And and it was a competitive back and forth between you and her. Then something happened with Pickle Ricks. I mean, lots of things have happened with Pickle Ricks. Something about you buying all of them? I know what you're talking Okay, so so what happened here? What was the story? So, the hot tub meta after I brought the hot tub inside, people started doing that. So, then I started buying floaties for the hot tub. People started doing that. I noticed every time I bought a new floaty, suddenly everyone would buy that floaty cuz it was just like Amazon Prime or whatever. I got a banana floaty, suddenly people would have the same banana floaty and be doing the same thing. I would get like a unicorn or something, they would get the unicorn and do the same thing. So, I was like, "I want to get something funny, but I don't want everyone to just copy right away cuz then it's not funny very long. So, I got Pickle Rick and what I did was I saw there were only like 20 available and left in stock and I bought all of them. Because I knew that they'd have to wait for a while for the vendor to restock cuz it was the only Pickle Rick floaty like on Amazon. See, that's pretty smart. Yeah, I bought I bought 20 of them cuz what were they like $20 a piece? what you should have done is create your own floaty and sold them to everyone else who wants to buy them. I should have done that. Yeah. I should have done that. That would have been hilarious. Didn't you have everyone else I read something about a pool floaty company or something. Uh Yeah, yeah, that was part of the private equity. They had like a Yeah, it was it was in there. with them, you know? Yeah, I I should have. I guess I was just too busy like on the grind cuz of how much my time was worth it. I didn't want to put that much mental energy into it, but yeah, that would have been hilarious. Um so yeah, I bought all the Pickle Ricks. And it worked cuz for like like three weeks maybe, maybe a month, no one else had a Pickle Rick. And then did people get Pickle Ricks? Yes. No way when they got restocked. They actually bought them. So, you did the right thing technically speaking like it proved you right Yeah. to do that. Yeah, cuz it would look like they were all copying me after it became established that I'm the one with the Pickle Ricks. Wow. Yeah, cuz if it all happens around the same time, no one really knows like who started it. They just see a bunch of girls like, "Why is everyone on bananas?" Yeah. So, what are you doing today to remain like that competitive? Um today I don't I don't really have as much like I don't have like a meta right now, I guess cuz I've been like so distracted between moving and boxing and all these other platforms too now. Um yeah, right now I guess I'm I'm still trying to get there. I want to become the party house cuz I have like this huge space. Yeah. And you see there's like contractors here still cuz they're still doing some construction, but then after they're done, I want to be able to like host events here and fly everyone in and and do like big slumber parties with girls. Well, you know, if you're looking for attendees, you know, you're looking to fill some space, just go ahead go ahead and let us know. Parties with a ton of girls, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what I find interesting is it seems like you're kind of trying to downplay a lot of your accomplishments up until this moment because like you're walking us through your story and there's no chance that you were that lucky that many times in a row where like just like the natural flow of I don't know the current you were in just kind of took you to success after success after success. I feel like you need to Yeah, well, I think it's also just hard work too cuz it's it's the willingness to be on and do things people aren't willing to do cuz a lot of girls like who use their body for money, you know, there's like a reason they they do that is because it seems like a shortcut, right? And then there are a lot of girls who will spend time doing that, but in the streaming space also, there's not that many who are like super hard grinding um and will just be on as long as it takes to make like get that efficiency out of their work. So, a lot of them still want to enjoy their time, they want to like travel, they want to have free time and that's nice, but I'm like paranoid, you know, I don't know how long it'll last. You're very much goal-driven towards having a sanctuary and like building up enough income. Yeah, it's like I still want to go and I want to de-stress on certain mornings, but like I don't you know, I'll go to the bar and I'll come back, right? And then I'll work. It's not like I'm traveling everywhere. So, you think one of the main things that sets you apart from the competition is the is the the work ethic. Yeah, no, definitely cuz it's like you have to be online in order for the algorithm to go in your favor. Cuz for Twitch, they they reward time streamed. And nowadays like you can you can kind of piggyback if you get like a an org like OTK or or someone or OfflineTV, they kind of like they feed off of each other cuz they're using the same fan group essentially. So, that fan group who is like a fan of the content also go to like every stream. And so, your streams don't have to be long to get viewership or stuff cuz you're all just sharing one big audience essentially. But if you're kind of by yourself, you don't have that like feedback loop from like this character arc of like stories all intermingling and you kind of just have to grind out the algorithm hours if you're a solo person. What's your biggest insecurity? I would say maybe my inherent entertaining level because by myself, it feels like it's hard to keep up with what currently people find entertaining cuz they do find like drama drama drama entertaining and it's hard to kind of farm that when you don't have like a content house or like other streamers that you're constantly collabing with to kind of feed that into. So, you think that you need to chase the trends in order to be entertaining. You think that you don't have that innate just like ability to No, I don't think so. And it also is harder to for women because we aren't as seen as like relatable by the majority of Twitch audience which is male, you know. People typically will watch if she's attractive, but they don't really watch because they feel like that they relate to her per se. The some of the females might, but that's not the majority of Twitch audience still. It's still mostly males. So, it's kind of hard to feel like you're entertaining truly cuz it's part of it is like yeah, they are there for your appearance, you know, that's like the value that a lot of them found you through. And some will stay for your personality, but there's also some weird stigma behind like watching women still. So, like she's not going to you, you know, people say that in the chat at each other being like, "Why are you guys watching? Just donate and and subscribe. She's not going to you." Like as if like that's the only reason why they would associate with women is to to be able to them. They're still very much like that. That dominating societal stigma, I guess. And what do you feel like the reason is that they're there watching for such a long time? I think some of them just like formed a kind of community feeling cuz they talk to each other in chat, right? And then they like support the streamer, they enjoy the streamer's personality. They just feel it's kind of like a virtual hangout session, you know? Um it's kind of some it's similar to why some people support guy streamers, but there's just less who feel like they can enjoy a female streamer if she's not them or if that fantasy isn't there that she might one day maybe. So, some are just like very naysayers like, "Why would you watch a female? She's not going to sex you." Cuz they don't see as like friends or entertainers. Right. They see females as like an accessory. Yeah. So. What do you think is the biggest threat to humanity? Biggest threat to humanity? Oh god. Um I think ourselves destroying the planet. Not having a plan. it's the environmental changes? I I think it's not really the environment changing. I think it's just humans like destroying ourselves either like both the environment but then also each other. I think we like the social media aspect encourages drama and conflict and disagreements and you see people doing crazier and crazier things. AI as well which is human generated. is least of my concern to be honest. I think it's more of what people choose to do cuz you see the news covering only negative things. People are more likely to to go on crazy violent rampages if they feel like that's what's getting that's what will get them attention cuz it's like the media while making people aware of it is also kind of glorifying like shootings and things like that. Right. So many outlets are doing that. the names of the the people that do that which I think is kind of nice. Yeah. That's true but I don't know if that really helps as much if you're already insane. Yeah. You're just like I want people to talk about me whether I think that was actually a really good answer. Yeah. I agree with that completely. Yeah. How would you fix the economic crisis? How would you fix the debt ceiling? No but I feel like if you just eradicated humans like the world would probably thrive like environmentally. I would I would actually 100% agree with that. Yeah. I don't want it to happen but but that I know that it would though. It'd be better for virtually every other species. People are like oh no the world is dying. We should leave and go to Mars. I'm like you know what we probably should and the world wouldn't die. You know. Yeah. It's like let's go to before it dies. Maybe the world will come bounce back. There was like some kind of limitation for a bit in Beijing. You know how the the pollution is really bad there where like I remember it was a few years ago now maybe several years ago where they had a mandate where it's like the driving was restricted and within two weeks of cutting down on the amount of people driving like the skies cleared up and it was beautiful and there was no more fog. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah so I feel like it's just humans like we're the biggest threat to ourselves. I agree. Also I got a question because I asked you earlier if you're a vegetarian you said no but also you have this like crazy intense passion for animals. Yeah it's weird I know. Why why cuz I'm the exact same like I love animals. I'm the same as same same as Graham like you know a little spider gets inside I'm going to catch it and you know release it outside. I'm not going to kill it squish it or anything like that. Very passionate towards animals. I love all kinds of them but I still eat meat. Like what's your justification for that? know. I don't know if I really have a justification other than like I'm a product of my environment and I grew up eating meat so like I don't know. It's kind of just like I'm used to it now and and in the back of my mind like it does bother me but uh currently I guess I'm just not in a position where it's like there's enough of a replacement that I'm like ooh like available all the time where it's like if I'm if I crave something because I've grown up with it then I I don't feel good about it but it's also like if I I feel it's that hopeless feeling too where it's like if I don't eat meat will they stop killing animals? Will they stop doing the factory farms? No. Right? So then it's just like it sounds like an thing to say though so it's like I don't like saying it Yeah. also like if everyone collectively says all right we can all shake hands and agree we're not going to do this I'll be a part of it but if it's just me then it'll continue regardless. I'm like That's I also don't think that yeah it is. It is and I totally get people being like well I do it just for me so I feel better about myself and like what I'm supporting what I'm not supporting and I'm totally for that. I think that's awesome. One day I would like to switch towards like if I know my meat's coming from an ethical source I think that's really cool. Like if they have like a hunter he goes out and he kills a deer and you buy meat from that hunter who killed a deer because there was too many on a reservation or somewhere. Like I would love to switch towards like I'm only helping the environment and nothing is going to waste and all that. I don't know if I could ever get to that point or what service you would even use for that but I think that kind of thing could be like a much better solution. Yeah it's just like there's 30-day chickens like that's so sad. They just grow up to just be like what are the ones what was it the was it the male chickens get killed instantly? It's so sad. But that's also what we say but if let's say we went to the grocery store and those eggs were double the price or that meat was double the price how many people are actually going to choose that with their wallet as well? Sure but also at the same point it's the same argument as everything else. It's like me choosing to buy the more expensive ones not going to stop the cheap ones. still there yeah. Yeah and it's also a tough situation because it's like if we all collectively just stopped eating meat that would put so many people who have ranches and land out of business and you might think like well good but they're also the people that often grow the crops. Mhm. And it's like well you're not going to eat meat what are you going to eat? The plants but if they can't if they can no longer afford to maintain the land that the plants also grow on because the animals are probably some more lucrative to sell cattle and stuff then you also don't have a place to grow plants. So I think what really needs to happen is that the government needs to step in and have more regulations on like Like the rights production of like the the meat where it's coming from the the facility to make sure the animals are taken care of not not over production. Like I just think there needs to be more government regulation. I don't think that pressure should fall on the individual consumer. Mhm. But it's hard to like find any movement on that cuz you can't just say let's not eat meat because right now it's currently like the the whole farming industry that's the more profitable market. Then you don't have places to grow plants if that's the alternative so it's like Yeah. Have you guys heard about the monopoly on crops? No. So there's an entire YouTube video I watched and basically these companies that make the seeds for crops they have like a IP on the seed. So they sell the seed to a farmer. The farmer plants it they grow a crop but the farmer cannot replant that seed or replant seeds from that crop because that company had genetically modified that seed to be able to whatever grow faster better you know more more yield. They have to rebuy the ability to be able to plant it. That's crazy. Yeah. That's weird. So I didn't know you could have intellectual property on genetics so That is crazy. Yeah. So Wow. know just another they're every they'll always try to control something. I've also read that like um with the plants that are genetically modified to grow faster is that they're not as nutrient dense because they didn't have time to mature and get all the nutrients out of it. So they're actually not as healthy as like the original plant for you. So that's like another weird thing Right. to think about. So you do you want it fast or do you want the health benefits? Like the full nutrient value? That's kind of the point right? the point of the organic non-GMO whatever. Food yeah. Yeah. And that's why people say like there I don't see a difference I don't taste a difference. Like it's not in the taste. It's in what it's like doing to your body. It's not like it's harming your body you're just not getting as much nutrients out of it. Yeah. Cool. I got to say you're very well spoken and you're an incredibly smart business woman. you should be doing more podcasts. the problem is it doesn't make money for me. No one wants to hear about it. I don't know. I disagree. It doesn't. I would disagree. If you have a way I'm all ears. I'm always open I I I would disagree with that. I think if you go on podcasts with different audiences I mean the amount of exposure plus if they do clips they do shorts they do all that stuff it's like absolutely but having my own doesn't make Yeah having your own I don't know necessarily but after we had our first So after we had Stella Berry on our podcast um I'll say like probably since then probably 50 OnlyFans like models and stuff have like reached out like some pretty big ones too have like DM'd us like hey can I get on the Ice Coffee or can I do this can I do that? Yeah no definitely. Like I love doing podcasts on other people's but like throwing my own it's kind of hard because if you already have a community of like guys guys don't necessarily want to hear women talk about serious subjects. It has to be more of like the what's that really successful girl podcast where they just talk about their their feelings? Yes that type of thing typically for like if you have a coomer audience right? No Call Her Daddy I've listened to it. I think it's really good. She has some really good people on there. Yeah. Yeah. Well recently as of late like in the beginning the podcast was extremely vulgar and stuff. Yeah. Really enjoyed it. Yeah I haven't listened to it recently. Yeah. But no I definitely love doing podcasts for sure. I find them a refreshing pace. Yeah cool. Refreshing change of pace. Thank you so much. for your hospitality. We really appreciate it. the way she bought us sushi. Okay she also like Ubered us and showed us her her horses okay? So she's been extremely gracious. It's on the vlog channel. Her hospitality was she's been absolutely incredible. Very very kind person so Oh thank you. Really appreciate it. Anytime you come to Vegas let us know. Mhm. Twitch Prime. We owe you sushi. Feel free to say whatever you want to the cameras if you want to shout something out. Yeah if you guys want to follow me anywhere the most reliable place is going to be my link tree downbad.com is a URL cuz who knows by the time you watch this maybe my usernames will be completely different. I don't know. But downbad.com easy to remember. Cool. Thank you so much and until next time.