HistFest 2026: Travels Through Time with Sir Michael Palin

[music] Hello and welcome to the final session of Histfest 2026. Thank you so much for everybody that's joined us throughout the weekend or if you've joined us today or just for this event. It's been lovely to have you here. Um, if you're in the audience, the same bit of housekeeping as usual. If you want to ask a question towards the end of the conversation, um, that's that's fine. You just do that by raising your hand and we'll try and get a mic to you. If you're watching from home, you can submit your questions via the um, question box as well. Um, you can enable captions at home. Also, I just want to say a few quick thank yous before we move on to the next session given that it's the final one of the day. So, thank you to Jonah who's at the back over there and everybody at the British Library for allowing us to host his fest here again. Um, thank you to Josh who's been drawing the amazing artwork that you've been seeing seeing on the screen outside. Thank you to PLB Limited and Jules Vern Travel for supporting the festival this time. The of Manchester's Regiment, not the real one, um, are outside as well um, providing living history and historical association. And also a big thank you to Sarah, Edy, and Lucy for all your support over the festival as well. So, um, I'm hugely honored to introduce our final speaker. How do you even begin to introduce Sir Michael Palin? For seven decades, he's inspired and delighted TV and film a audiences and readers with an outstanding body of work. From now iconic TV shows like MontiPython's Flying Circus and Ripping Yarns to films such as Montipython's Holy Grail, Life of Brian, The Meaning of Life, A Fish Called Wonder, and more recently, The Death of Stalin. His acclaimed travel documentaries have transported viewers on journeys to the North and South Poles, the Sahara Desert, the Himalayas, Eastern Europe, Brazil, Venezuela, and many more. Alongside travel and screenwriting, Michael has also published several volumes of diaries, novels, and history books, including the bestsellers Arabus, the story of a ship, and My Great Uncle Harry. From 2009 to 2012, Michael was president of the Royal Geographic Society. He received a BA BAFTA fellowship in 2013 and a nighthood in 20 in the 2019 New Year's honors list. Most recently, he was awarded the outstanding contribution award by the Royal Television Society. Michael Palin, [applause] >> thank you very much. That was very nice. It's a bit of a long list to read out, isn't it? >> Well, it's a it's a long list of achievements. [laughter] >> Well, you could just read out my Ole results. Yeah, I skimmed over them. Um, what I what I thought would be a good place to start um is if we travel back to Michael Paling, the boy um and your first interest in history because as I was saying to you back in the green room, I read this book as a child. Um it's called The Mirrorstone and I didn't know you were you were the author um as a young person, but I found out recently that you were and it's amazing. It's the first book with holograms, I think. Yes, that was the idea. The holograms were very sort of popular at that time and what you could do with them if the technology moved on fairly quickly. But a guy called Richard Seymour said we could do these in books. So you could open up and actually without any special view or anything like that. You could have these wonderful 3D pictures and um and they asked me they asked me to write it. I think Terry Jones would have been better at it because Terry was very very good at fairy stories but I was available and cheap and that [laughter] But like well alongside Mirrorstone also time Bundits which you co-wrote it focuses on a young boy that for whatever reason is transported back into a historical world world or into the past. When did you first realize that you were interested in history? I was thinking about this and I I remembered that although I liked, you know, I've always liked historical novels like Rosemary Suckliffe, Eagle of the Ninth, things like that. Um, but I think the first time was um there was a series of comic books called Classics Illustrated and they were all about, you know, Ivanho and things like that and whatever. Um, and they were wonderfully illustrated and I think that must have been quite young when I first started seeing those and they just gave me an appetite for the the drama of history. That that was really which has always attracted me. I mean, history is whatever happened just a moment ago, didn't it? >> Mhm. >> That was history. Me coming on, wasn't it really? >> Well, we're living it now. >> Yeah, exactly. I realized that was history. I'm doing history all the time. Stop it. Um [laughter] but um yeah uh so so those those were very those are very important and I mean there were a lot of a lot of this that time I was there must have been the 1940s when I was sort of growing up um a lot was to do because of the end of the war was to do with you know that what have happened in the war there were all sorts of war stories about you know daring do in the navy and the air force and all that so you you constant sort of looking back and being sold the past really. Um I suppose that's where it all all began. And of course in school I think history then was given a great deal more time than perhaps it is now. And we had um I remember various history masters some of them were very poor. There was one who just used to come and write um page 43 um treaty trect read on and he would just sit there and sort of pick his ear and light his light his pipe while we we read all this. It was just a way of he didn't have to say anything. >> Well, he was living his best life. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> But then you went on to study history at university. Is that that correct? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I I actually was it was a toss-up in history or geography. So those are my favorite subjects and I was kind of led to believe that um and English too, but I was led to believe that history was the easiest way to get into university, the least subscribed. So there I was again, you know, sort of playing the system a bit or my my father was anyway. [laughter] Um and and yes, it was it was history that I I got into Brazner's Oxford for. Yeah. >> And you met Terry Jones while you were at university. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And so that kind of alchemy in your in your friendship resulted in so much that is present in popular culture today now. But I'm just interested in those the very early work that um that you and Terry did, the very early ideas and and how rooted they were in in history. >> Well, Terry was a very um a very keen historian. I mean, he was more of a scholar than I was. He he'd read the original Latin and things like that and he was a medieval medievalist and and highly respected actually in the in the profession. Um, so, so Terry was drawn to to history anyway, although ironically he was studying English and I was um, and because we we did jokes together and and put cabaret together. Um, somehow that I suppose it was the the the the sort of um, enjoyment of history and the importance of history that brought us together. But then we went into mainly comedy. We just did sort of cabarets and things like that and and uh went to the Edinburgh Festival in 1964 as both of us were in the Oxford University Review and that was really good. I think that's where I start where I first felt I could do comedy um possibly uh as a you know as a sort of um life ahead. And so I didn't know absolutely it was just a feeling. >> But the history was al always part of my life there somewhere. So I think it was just it was kind of it was there in my mind all these wonderful historical characters these wonderful range of people the understanding why we were where we are because I mean living in this country history is everywhere. And I've been to countries where it's very little history. It's all been destroyed and all that. And I'm very grateful that we have we have history. But um maybe it holds us back. I don't know. But I think it also stimulates us to find out why we did things and why our parents and their generation did things and way beyond that as you know. >> And one of the one of the earliest um shows that that you that you did was the complete and utter history of Britain. >> Yes. >> Is that the authorative account or >> Yeah, absolutely. [laughter] That's what we wanted people to think. Um well after um I left Oxford got various jobs. Um one was comparing a pop show in Bristol. Um uh it was called now exclamation mark and it became then very quickly. It wasn't [laughter] terribly good. Um and Terry and I and Eric Idol and David Jason and Denise Coffee put together a show called Do Not Just Your Set which was actually sort of very pythonic but it was for children. It went out at at sort of quart 5 in the afternoon and me the only audience were children and Italian waiters used to go to Italian restaurants they would say very funny it's funny cuz I'm just dressing I cannot see anything in the evening I'm asleep in the morning I get up and there is your show on it's very funny so [laughter] um that was say big audience there and that that finished two series and then Terry and I thought we'd like to do something on our own and the man called Frank Mure who's a comedy writer. Um um and we we pitched to him this idea of doing the history of Britain. It's it's very like horrible histories. Turned out to be actually that was it. Lots of sketches about you know um Richard the first coming back from the Crusades with bagfuls of of sort of cheap things he bought at airports and all that. Oh, look at this. It is wonderful. Only one squirt, the whole broom's done, you know. [laughter] So, I'm afraid we weren't taking history terribly seriously. >> But you had you had Samuel Peeps having a chat show as well. Is that is that right? >> Yeah. Samuel Peep Samuel Peeps had a chat show and uh [laughter] there were some just some nice moments of remember Terry doing the uh the very start of British history and stone age and there's a man Terry makes some coming along with a coracal on his on his back you know and um by the river and they said and and in those very early days um men constructed coracals And Terry just jumps in the water with a coral still on his back. He [laughter] says, "And later learn to sail in them." Little kind of things like that we could do. >> It just sounds like so much fun to have been there. It's almost like your imaginations could run wild and >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yes. It was really I mean we were just we were just looking for I suppose humor that had a certain twist to it, you know. slightly less boring than doing a people living together in a house of present day or something like that. >> Yeah. >> Which the young ones did far better anyway. [laughter] >> But then that led obviously um through the collaborations and the world that you were that you were in that led ultimately to Montipython's Flying Circus and I think I was reading maybe it was in your diaries or maybe something else about the >> the origin of the title Montipython. Yeah. Was that Python was >> Well, it was just that that we we wanted to we didn't know what the show was going to be like. It just was we wanted it to be different from anything else. So, we didn't want to have a sort of conventional title. And the BBC kept saying, "Have you got a title yet?" And we said, "No, we're just thinking about it. Have you got a title yet?" "Oh, in a week we will have a title." and the BBC finally lost patience and said, "Look, we we think quite a nice title be the Flying Circus." Um, John Cle's Flying Circus. Well, John didn't want to give his name to something. It could be a complete disaster. So, [laughter] that that we we we waited and eventually um we sat around one afternoon and came up with the name Montipython. I don't know where where it was from. It's sort of like a very dodgy agent in [laughter] >> like Montipython. Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good. >> So, that that was it. But, um, [clears throat] yeah, it was interesting because we we held out against this against the title for a very long time until they suddenly said, "We've got to sign your contracts today and it's got the title in there." So, that that concentrated minds instantly. Oh, yes, we'll get the title. One Python Flying Circle. Fine. >> But, it's just it's just so strange in hindsight. Obviously, everything is history as you said, even the beginning of that sentence. Um, it's just so strange to think to try and put myself in in your shoes at the time because you had no idea that it would be as successful and as impactful. >> No, >> as it grew to be. >> No, but we all of us had done quite a bit of comedy by that time. Um, and John and Graeme and Eric had done last the 1944 show, which is very funny. we done do not just your set. And it was the 1960s when everyone was experimenting. You were allowed to experiment. The doors were open and you got something new. Do it. Yeah. It's very rather different from what it is now. >> Um so I mean [clears throat] we felt well we'll just do a bit and we'll see if it works or not. And fortunately the BBC, you know, were so sort of dismissive of the show, we were able to get away without them, you know, wanting to interfere for 13 shows because they put us out very late at night. They hope no one would see us and various parts of the country were opt out slots. So people in the Midlands got farming today in the Python. >> [laughter] >> That's why a lot of people left Birmingham and came to London. [laughter] But no, it was um so we were given again unheard of freedom just to either mess it up or create something new. >> And and I I really think that was the key thing and and no other broadcaster would have touched it really. So the BBC is sort of you know in those days 100%. >> Yeah. Well, I want to come back to the films in a little bit. There's another TV series that I I think is oh it's just so funny. I was re-watching it ahead of this this talk and it's ripping yarns. Um your series with Terry Jones and the first episode and I'm going to quote this. It just starts with like a title like it's ripping yarns and then there's a title card and it says translated from the Swedish cleaned up put in a nice green folder and sent to the BBC by Michael Palin and Terry James. >> Yes. [laughter] Yeah. We always like that but was again we're against any form of convention you know and and that the title is always a convention and intermissions in films and all that we always played around with that was part of our sort of disruptive >> comedy at the time. Yeah. >> And the um one of the ones that stood out to me as well was the um Tomkinson's school days which is obviously on Tom Brad school days and one of the things that said is this that all school boys must have a compulsory fight with a grizzly bear. Yeah. >> And then with the more the murder at Morstone's manor, there's um obviously somebody is murdered. Um but straight away the the dodgy son played by yourself and says, >> "Look has a gun." >> Yeah. Can we read the will now, Mommy? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Um >> Yeah. Thank you. That's quite funny actually. >> It was [laughter] I just wonder what your >> You do it, Rebecca. >> Thank [laughter] you. Um I I wonder what your favorite um memories um from that show are, favorite scenes or characters. >> Well, it's interesting, you know, sort of talking about history. There were there was definitely a genre and even Tomson school days was sort of based on 1920s and 30s when you had these very sort of stylized ways of behaving you know and and school was public school was one thing and and we did a escape from Stallag Loft because that was you know there were a lot of war stories and and everybody stag loft I quite enjoyed because it was [laughter] a an escaper they were all quite happy in the camp [laughter] and this man comes tonight. We're going tonight. Oh, no. Please, I'm just asleep. No, [laughter] no, we're going. This is a night. We're going. I burrowed down. Oh, please. Can we do it tomorrow? So, [laughter] um but uh yeah, they they um I mean I like the recreation, historical recreation um Yorkshire in the 1930s and all that sort of thing. >> Oh yes, I remember that. likeweight they're always you know sort of someone would wander up on a hill in silhouette in black and they say oh dear you know day the precipitation that day were 14.3 in and [laughter] it's turned out he was the greatest boar in Yorkshire and he had a shovel he kept talking about his shovel I've got a shovel I've got two shovels but [laughter] one next to the other one my mic Park. Michael Parkinson loved the ripping yarns and the BBC said, "Well, having a party for Michael. He's leaving, but um he he wants a present and we we're going to give him a shovel. [laughter] Would you write on it?" So I I did and I wrote to the second most boring man in New York. [laughter] Love that. >> I love it. Well, I I have to say something. So when when a friend of mine that I was in school with, I've known her since I was three. She's called Emma Hobin. So, I'm giving a shout out to her. When she found out that I was speaking to you today, she sent me a message and she said, "Can you tell him I love him, please?" The ex leper scene in Life of Brian will always be one of my most favorite scenes in comedy. Um, and I'm going to use that as a segue to talk about the films. >> Yes. [laughter] Get Emma's name in as well. >> Yeah, Emma's there. >> Hello, Emma. >> Um, obviously history, as you said, your the fingerprints of history are all over the work. everything that you do has has has got some historical bearing just, you know, regardless of the fact that it is in the past. It's still, you know, rooted in history. >> I'm interested in how the Montipython films came to be. Um, why they took the form that they did and whether there were any other options, whether there were any other stories. I'll tell you exactly how Montipython the Holy Grail came into fashion because Terry and I had written a scene which didn't do in the end for um the complete art history of Britain and it's about two people going [clears throat] to the battlements and and saying we're here and they get talking about the speed of the unladen swallow and all that >> and so that was something we we sort of created these two characters And when we read it out to to the Pythons, I it wasn't we weren't actually sure we'd be going to do a film. We' done three television series and John wanted to get out and do Faulty Tires and all that. So, it was by no means certain that we do a film. We had to get some uh you know, how do you you do 30 minutes comedy on television, but try and stretch that to 90 minutes. It's very very difficult. we get to a the point about 45 minutes in when you kind of it's run out of energy and so you got to write your comedy in a different way. So what we thought was based on these two characters and medieval why did we do the Holy Grail story because it's a it's a a sort of legendary story and everybody sort of knows it >> but it's written in so being written in so many different ways by so many different people. Um but that would be a good framework. Um it's it's got the there's a story there which we can kind of use and also we'll all be six knights so we can have have different characters and all that. So that's really how that how that came about. the the the story of the search for the holy grail gave us the structure for the film >> because indeed you know in in life of Brian the sort of the the the Bible story gave us that structure >> but there must have been so much more pressure I mean you were talking about how you had a lot of freedom when you were making the TV series because people weren't as bothered with the first well I mean commissioners weren't necessarily as as bothered with the first series >> but you're you're moving from one medium into another and the expectation is Hi. Did you have a sense of that? >> Yeah. I mean, you don't have the BBC holding your hand really, >> although they were smacking our hand a bit by [laughter] it became quite sensorious. Um, so it's different world. You have to get someone to give money in. But fortunately, various pop groups really enjoyed Python like Genesis and people like that. And um, they put they put a certain amount of money in that that helped. and a man called Michael White who was at London Imprasario put in the rest but it was a very very small a very small amount of money. Um we made it for just over 200,000 which when you see it on screen is pretty good because I mean mainly we got Scotland as a background and that looks wonderful. You don't have to pay anyone for that. And in fact, all the we went to the historic Scotland for their to choose a castle. And they read the script and and they wouldn't just use any of their castles. >> Yeah. The content of the script was not compatible with the uh the dignity of the buildings. [laughter] Yeah. These are buildings where they poured hot oil on people, you know, 500 years ago. Anyway, no dignity there. So, we went to a small private castle uh at Dune near Sterling and they were very they were very nice and let us go there and they have reaped the benefits because they're the only um gift shop in Scotland probably in the world where where they sell sliced coconuts. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Put them [laughter] on. They cut them out, clean them out, put them on the counter and they've done really well. >> You see, it's the gift that keeps giving. >> The gift that keeps giving. Yeah. Well, they do get a lot of We were there once doing Terry and I were doing a sort of return to Holy Grail and a bus came up. A mini bus full of Japanese tourists all get out and started photographing the walls of this castle, [laughter] >> buying their coconuts. >> Oh, wow. Did that sound stay with you? I mean, it's quite distinctive the clacking. >> Yes. It doesn't doesn't obsess me, Rebecca. All right. Without it, but sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's very I saw the film again recently and actually it really works very well because you do I mean it's the right sound for the horses. >> It is. >> I wonder did you discover that it made that sound or [laughter] >> I'm going a bit too deep into the cocoa. >> Yeah, you're going too deep in the coconut. But someone must have discovered Yeah. Well, it's a children's thing, isn't it? Yeah. >> Or it's like putting a shell to your ear and you can hear the sea. Do you your parents do that to you? >> Yeah. Cunch. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um anyway, [laughter] sorry. >> What can you hear from any inanimate objects? Um were there any were there any other options though? So obviously we have we have the films that exist. Were there any discussions about doing other historical topics >> or is there one that you would have liked to have made? >> No, actually we we we didn't. I mean these two came perfectly formed. I mean the Holy Grail I've told you how that that came about and we were doing publicity around the world for Holy Grail and there was a lot of time with the Python team in airports and things just chatting away and Eric Idol came up with this title Jesus Christ lust for glory and said oh [laughter] do that be really it set us set us thinking >> and um and that's I mean that that film of course was was that was dumped by EMI when the head of EMI read the script absolutely refused to touch it. So George Harrison, God bless him. George put um 5 million pounds in. Was it five mill? Yes, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how we got it. But we're always we're always the outsiders. No. No one ever said, "Oh, you must make lots more films about historical events." Mhm. >> So having done two historical films, we decided that if we did another one, it should be more like we we had a sort of concept, philosophical concept of life and death, you know, the sort of four age the ages of man and all that sort of thing, which is a bit woolly for comedy, but there's a lot of quite funny sketches in there. >> Oh, more than a lot. Um, is there is there anything about history or what is it about history that makes it so ripe for comedy? Because you've got so many shows and book series that have been influenced by by those films, Horrible Histories. Um well backad I'm just >> yeah I mean it's very interesting that it just is there are so many stories in [snorts] in history well obviously but but you know there are a lot of there are a lot of stories a lot of characters and and and and many of us I think who've written these things have been brought up on these on these historical events and history was in a way became the way it was taught was slightly stiff you know you just had to know your dates >> dates of the kings and all And then you found a little bit more about the kings themselves and then a little bit more. And so you realize there's so much to discover in history. And I mean there something like um King John who's great favorite of mine because he gets such a bad press totally disastrous but you know he lost France. All right. But there there we are. So did Boris Johnson. [laughter] On the other hand, um he it's it suddenly becomes interesting to find out why >> what he was really like because you have various historians come in with their books and and history reflects the tone of society at a certain time, doesn't it really? So you'll get sometimes you get very aggressive conservative writers and other times you get people who are much more sort of radical and that's the way they look at it. So, it's just an endless endless source of of of material. And I think we're rather fond of history, too. That's another thing, you know, it's not sort of um like the history of chickens or something like that. I mean, there's something more that we all have we have a fondness for. Anyway, >> there'll be a historian of the history of chickens, won't we? Yes. >> No, this is interesting. But you you don't just you don't just make things about history. You have you have documented your own life as well. You've written multiple volumes of diary, four volumes now of diaries, I think. Um there's there's also a full version with all the diaries in them as well. Many of them on sale outside. Um you and I'm just wondering because you started your diary in 1969 if I'm correct. And one of the first pictures in well a later edition of of the diaries is you dressed up as Ethere. And I think that's from the complete and utter um history of Britain. I think >> yes, he was a character I played. >> Yeah. >> He always arrives just in his pajamas [laughter] and his toothbrush. What's happening? What's happening? What's happening? >> Not not subtle at all. Anyway, just thank thank you for mentioning. No one ever does really. [laughter] >> Um, but I'm just wondering what it is that inspired you to start writing a diary and why why you do it. >> I think perhaps because I'm I sort of I'm a bit of a collector of things. I mean, I I I feel so fortunate. I've so many so many things I've done in my life, traveling, writing, I've met a lot of interesting people and all that. And to me, um, a day that's unrecorded is a day lost. That's I always felt it's a bit like making lists and things like that. You know, this is what I've done. And so, I suppose it was sort of, you know, a retentive start keeping a diary. But um actually the reason I did begin was I'd um given up smoking and I smoked quite a bit 1960s and um then one night it was like cold turkey but she gave up and I thought if I can give up so quickly my willpower must be stronger than I thought. What else can I do with it? I thought, well, I've tried to keep diaries at school and all that. Let me see now because I knew we were about to start on a new show which is not by I'll try and just write down record of the day. >> And that's that's really how it how it happened. And and now I I mean I just love histories. I'm sorry, diaries. I love reading John Elin and you know all these these wells there some the wonderful diaries Simon Gray great diarist and all that and they're really it's a really nice form of of of talking about people where they lived what they feel people are much more sort of personal they be able to give the personal sort of slightly life when they're writing a diary I think in a good diary a bad diary I think is a diary which just tells you things you could have read in in the newspaper anyway way. But a good diary tells you, you know, what you feel at that particular moment, what affected you that day, how you felt about some event in the current affairs or some personality. Um, that's you, you know, that's only only come through you. And I think that's why the good diaries are really wonderfully wonderfully personal >> and and give a great insight. Yeah. So I I thought, well, I'd like to do it anyway to record what I've done in my life and my days. >> Do you do you ever go back and read your earlier diaries? >> Yeah, I do. I mean, you use them every now and then. [clears throat] Um, it's very very useful actually. Um because there always things coming up about what were we doing then and who did what to whom and actually we had a court case um um a one of the producers of Holy Grail decided he hadn't got enough percentage the sales of Holy Grail something like that. Anyway, we we thought this pretty ridiculous. It went on and on and eventually rather stupidly in the end we we went to law and hired and my diaries covered this period. It was the only piece of information about that period. No one else could remember dates or anything like that. But in the diaries, I actually remember when we sat down and all that and um so an awful lot of one morning was spent reading reading my diaries out and being crossqu questioned by a very good sharp young you prosecutor kind of gave us a very hard time. >> I think that was quite hard though to have your diaries like as evidence. >> Well, when they're read out by some no sense of humor. [laughter] You say you got up at 6:00 in the morning, you caught a train to exit. Is that true? Yeah. [laughter] >> But I also think I I think it's interesting because I I kept diaries when I was a teenager like lots of lots of girls do [laughter] >> and I I remember I saw them recently and I remember looking back and one of the entries and I cannot remember being this emotionally distraught but one of the entries was another awful day. really. >> And it's just like you change as a person and you you're you're seeing it's yourself but it's not you as you are as well. >> Yeah. >> Well, you can be quite candid in diaries too. I mean the various things happened in my life including my sister who committed suicide at quite an early age but you know and and I was she was in the diary. So story all building up and you come to it and you think well do I not mention that? Of course you got to mention that. had such an impact and you know it's much better and actually as a result lots of people have read the diaries and said oh you this was very you you you helped us deal with our problems in the same area and all that. So things like that have been it's not the diary is not just a sort of what I did last night and who I who I had dinner with there there's there's there's more but there also is what I who I who I saw last night and who I had dinner with. That's the sort of mundane stuff as well. >> Yeah. >> So on the same day, you know, you hear some bad news, something else will have happened, a script will have come in, something like that. >> It it's so I'm glad I kept it. >> Do what do you think it is? Because obviously, as you mentioned, John um Evelyn and then Samuel Peeps. His diary is a bit dodgy though, but in part so just go with caution. But what what do you think it is about the human condition that makes us want to remember things and mark things down and write record ourselves? I guess >> well I think you're just sensitive to what's happening. You have to feel um you know you want to sort of freeze a moment in time or just just record a moment in time just so you don't lose that particular memory. That can be all sorts of things. It can be a love affair or it can be like Harold Nicholson's diaries which I just think are quite brilliant. the bit about 1940. I mean that is about somebody who thought he loved England and everything about England but he who he carried so cyanide tablets with him and so did his wife because they thought the Germans were going to come over and invade and he you know and he talks about walking through I I think some something had happened the day before. It was a very bad day and walking through Parliament Square and all that and there was there weren't many people there. and it just knowing what was happening in history at that time and how one person felt about it. I mean, it'd be nice to know how other people felt, but certainly that's terrifically that's terrifically powerful. >> Well, that leads me nicely on to my my next question for you. I was just wondering if you could get your hands on a diary from anyone from history whose whose inner thoughts would you like to read? >> Oh, that's quite interesting [laughter] really. King Jong. >> Oh, [clears throat] right. Yeah, if he could write, he probably was. [laughter] Yeah. No, I mean lot there are lots of people um uh I mean some of some of the sort of quieter ones who've not not been heard about a lot and the various No. And and and you know if there been a diary of I don't know if if Florence Nightingale kept a diary. >> Yeah, I'm not sure. But that would have been fantastic because it been a woman's view in a very male world. And I thought what she, you know, what she embodied in the Crimean War was really extraordinary. And I'd just love to know how she would record it, whether she I mean, she wouldn't be boastedful at all. Probably quite the opposite. But I'd love to hear what it was like. >> She'd probably do it by candle light though, wouldn't she? She'd have a lamp there to write. >> Yeah. Well, she Yeah, she had to have the lamp all the time. Oh, look. Look. It's daytime. Oh, sorry. [laughter] We got the photographers here. Those were just about the photographers. >> Yeah. >> Um, do you still keep a diary? >> Oh, yes. Yeah. >> Any more volumes coming out? >> Um, well, I don't know. I think it's quite important to keep a a distance between the events and the present. Otherwise, it just sounds like a bit like modern news or gossip column or something. So, I mean, I think you got at least 15 20 years >> before it was published and I didn't mean to publish them in the in the first instance. So, a friend persuaded me to do them. Uh, but so I don't think there'll be any more unless I live another 15 years. I might do 83 85 96. [laughter] >> You will. >> Eight. That's 98. >> That's fine. >> Will you have me back on this? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We can discuss the new release, [laughter] >> the new diaries, >> bringing King. >> But what what you have been um writing and what you did write a couple of years ago. Well, you may have been writing it for longer, but it was certainly published a couple of years ago. Um was this book, Great Uncle Harry. >> Yeah. Yeah. um which is obviously it's not a diary but it does it does >> it's about your great uncle Harry but it's also about your family history as well and I was really pleased when I was reading it to see that your family originates from Cheshire which is the best county I'm from there are you are you >> yeah so it's the best county they ancestors might have known each other >> um >> they fled Cheshire >> oh [laughter] >> yeah Um, but um, >> yeah, >> I'm just interested how you how you went about researching it. You refer to your family archives in the book as, and I hope I'm pronouncing this correctly, Palinania. Um, >> Palinana. >> Oh, there we go. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] So I I just wondered how you went about researching that because you have stuff but >> it's quite interesting really from I think the history point of view because >> [clears throat] >> um we um an aunt had given us or to my father a lot of papers and things like that which related to the family in some way and um we didn't really look through them but I looked through them and I found in one of them these boxes there was a photo of a man in in sort of um military uniform with a sort of lemon squeezer hat. So he wasn't in the British army. Uh looking at the camera and he looked he looked very like my father. He looks very like me. I said, "Who's this?" I said, "Oh, that's that was Uncle Harry died in the war." That was all they said. And I just thought this is this is really weird. And I one of the areas that I do love reading about is is the the first world war and people who went there. Amazing number of stories and what happened after the war and all that. And one of the things of course that I learned was that um people after the war kept quiet about it. No one really wanted to talk about it at all. It was so horrible. And so people just carried on as if nothing nothing had happened. And I think it was a little bit of that. You know this. So who was this guy then that Devon had forgotten and who was Uncle Harry? Where did he come from? And that [clears throat] prompted me to start researching. Unfortunately, I had a um my great-grandfather who was a dawn at Oxford. He he was a great I don't keep diar but but records, family records and all that. So I could go back to the records there and the fact that [clears throat] um um he had married he he was at Dond Oxford. He'd married an Irish girl who'd been orphaned in the potato famines 1830. It's a very odd mix of people. >> They got together. He left Oxford because he wasn't not allowed to be um a dawn and and married and he he became a um a vicar in in Glstershare and they started to have a family had a family quite quickly and the family was was about uh six of them to start with and then quite late on Harry was born so been a mistake or whatever and and he just missed out on every aspect of Victorian life and what was expected of them what expected was that you would go to college, you go to university, you perhaps become a bicker or perhaps he would become a doctor and all the others did and all that and Harry just got left behind and he's one of these rootless people and so I sort of followed him through this this his life and they're always trying to get him work and sending him to India where you know family had set up a business in Kolkata and all that none of it worked for him until he went to he went to New Zealand bought his own passage to New Zealand and there met a lot of other guys very similar including actually several from Chesher who became his mates. >> He can't get away from them. You can't but they got a long way from Cheshire to say in New Zealand but they got on very well and then and then suddenly and then he he he joined joined up when the when the war broke out first day you know as a lot of New Zealanders did walk to their local recruiting office and um he was sent to Gallipoli and survived the horrors of Gallipoli then uh the Psalm and he was killed one of the last days of of the Psalm. and and somehow got closer to him as I as I wrote this story and I read he he kept he kept a diary actually towards the end while he was while he was in Gallipoli >> and the psalm not a great diary but it's fantastic the circumstances under which it was written and I gradually told me so much more about the war and and I I never understood why people would continue to go and fight in large numbers knowing that so many had been killed was would not be a mut wouldn't mutiny be an option or something like that and the reason was I think that they just like liked being with their mates and he loved being with his mates and they became his world entirely. I mean and he didn't expect to lose the war I'm sure they always thought well they'll get through but the main thing was they became this little group of people and he was having such a good time it's like going down the pub every night but you know having a bit of fighting in between and all that sort of stuff. I I think that was something that was quite a revelation to me. >> I I it really I it was really striking in the book um kind of reading between the lines and not even between the lines actually that you do have this real affinity to him. Um you mention in the book how >> he was there was an age gap between him and his older siblings. So as you've already said he was almost >> out of kilter with a he was from in a different world to everybody that was before him. And you said that you've had a similar similar thing where you were the youngest child and there was a a bit of a gap in in age as well. >> Yes. Yes, that that that's true. Um but I think what I felt about him and and my own sort of life and character was that I've always I've always done things that are slightly different. I've always looked at the ways of presenting a book or doing a program or whatever. I've worked with and sought to sort of make something which no one's done before, quite a different way, whether it's it's traveling in a slightly different way or doing a ripping yarns or whatever. And um you know that that's [snorts] I I've never been salaried. I've never sat down, never been given a contract to work at all. And there's a little bit of Harry there as well, you know. I just don't want to be like I don't want to be pinned down. He didn't want to be pinned down. He just so eventually he'll find his own thing. He might have been a complete nuisance. Possibly he was. But um I do identify with his refusal to become part of the Victorian myth. >> I I can't I can't let um the discussion of this book passed by without mentioning your your great greatgrandfather or your great Edward anyway. Yes. Great. Um >> great grandpa. >> Great grand. So you have lots of ancestors that you mentioned, the the Cheshire ancestors, um the ancestors that helped hide Charles II during the Battle of Worcester, >> the ancestor that was connected to William Wilberforce or William Wilberforce's son. Um, but then Edward Palin, who you've already mentioned, it was just so amusing reading reading the book because he is supposed to be celibate and he's one of the one of his diary entries. He says, um, "My stay was enli enlivened by a party of young ladies. He can't seem to get away from the ladies, can he?" >> No, that's that's what's good. I mean, you Okay. He's a dawn at Oxford um and has to be celibate and when he goes on holiday, he leaves his diary. Again, it's diaries really bringing history back home and and it's exactly that. And as soon as he's on on board ship, he's barely left Folkston before he's seen some damsel [laughter] out. I 5:00 a.m. in the morning, I went out for a stroll. There she was [laughter] in the fog. all this and he's always get helping Swiss maidens get water buckets of water upstairs and all that sort of clearly very very bad celibacy [laughter] didn't have a clue >> and also his his speech that he gave >> quite like him [laughter] >> but his speech that he gave at Oxford that's held here isn't it the British Library or a copy of it anyway >> yes I think it is yeah yeah yeah >> um but I think one of the one of the really um powerful There's many powerful moments in this book. It's the your description of of the war and the experiences of war and the experiences for the people that were signing up as well. And there's so many reasons why >> why people were rejected from from enlisting like rotten teeth. I didn't realize that. Um >> but I wonder if you could tell me a little bit about the psalm. It is it's horrendous when you look at the statistics. 57,000 deaths in >> in one morning. >> Yeah. Well, the attitude to the war had sort of changed by then and they just said we've just got to use advantage of numbers and that means we just got to dispense with all accept that awful lot of people are going to die. So that was a sort of that was the background to to the psalm. Um but the various moments in his diary I say he wasn't a great sort of it wasn't it's not a work of literature or anything like that that he describes I think about two or three times only and this is Gallipoli as well going into action and it's quite interesting because of what I've said earlier because the way he writes about it he doesn't write about the strategy he doesn't write about actually the the the armaments used against them or or even the weapons they were they were carrying and all that. What he does do, he lists all the names of all his friends who have been killed. >> Mhm. >> And that's that's the really important thing. And I think that's where he had must have been the hardest time by the end. He'd lost a lot of friends. But again, you know, it was it was the comradeship which was so which was so important. >> Yeah. >> And all the rest of it. I mean, he did talk a little bit about sort of wounds that people got. That wasn't really what it was about. It was about just his friends going, which of course was saying what a needless waste of of of life. >> Yeah. >> But they're quite good those little moments because he very rarely doesn't most of his time he's not doing anything as most of them weren't. They were waiting. The actual moments of action were few and far between. >> Where are the records held now? Do you do you have them his his diaries? >> I've got them all at home. >> You've got them all? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot of my stuff is in the British Library. >> All the all the original Python notebooks are in the British Library. >> Oh, what were they? I should have known this. I should. >> Yeah. The the the head of the library um few years back gave a little evening where he got various documents out, put them on a table for people who are going to be benefactors. And there were all sorts of things including you know Jane Austin's first letter or the magna cart I don't know but everybody made a beline my this silverine notebook ring binder which had spam sketch [laughter] and they kind of pretended not to look and then so my finest hour. [laughter] >> So one of the things that you mentioned about Harry is how he he liked to travel. He he he well he maybe he didn't like it but he traveled quite widely and obviously during the war as well. And you yourself I think were you born with itchy feet? Did you always want to travel? >> Um yeah I think I I um I think I probably always wanted to be somewhere else. I was quite impatient that way. So I remember apparently I was in put in my pram outside the house. I didn't like being stuck there. So I'd take all my clothes off one by one, throw them out of the pram until someone came out and put the clothes back on and then gave them a walk. We went down the road. [laughter] And I've always felt well that that was right. That was a very early feeling. You I want to be I want to see what's at the end of the road. I want to see what's the end of the garden. I want to see what's in this room. I want to see what Yeah. All this it's curiosity really, which I think is what keeps travelers going. >> But then there's one thing liking to travel. There's a whole it's a whole other thing to set off to um travel the world in 80 days. >> Yeah. >> I mean, how did that come about and what was the experience of doing that like for you? >> Well, that came quite by chance. I mean, I I' I'd just been doing some films. I think I've just done Fish called Wonder actually and and a film with Alan Bennett called Private Function and Missionary. I'd done about four or five films in a very short period. And there was nothing better really than than um the Wander film. There's nothing around that was good. And someone got in touch and said, "We've got this idea about traveling the world. We would like to talk to you about it." So I went in and they told me about it and what it was based on van and and I was going to have to do the journey without any flying just using the mean means of transport of Ju van. See, could could it still be done in 80 days? I thought it was terrific. I said, "Yes, straight away." But five people apparently had already turned it down. >> Really? >> Yeah. No. Edmunds didn't want to do that. Come on. No. Mr. Blobby around the world. [laughter] Mr. Blobby or Marco Polo. Make your mind up. And uh Yeah. And Clive James and one or two others. And Alan Wicker, of course. Yeah. >> Where has been the hardest place that you've traveled to? like the most challenging for you? Um >> um probably um very cold area, north and south, pole and the Arctic and the Antarctic. Um but really they're really tough. I mean, almost anywhere else I've been, you get a bad day or something like that and something goes wrong and you got a dodgy hotel. I've had a few of those. Um but you know going to Antarctic and and and the Arctic a bit it just >> it's so numbing all the time you know it's such a and and there not many options of what you can do apart try and stay stay warm >> but you know I did get to the South Pole um which was >> what was it like >> very disappointing was it? >> Yeah. No. >> Yeah. Well, >> no fireworks. You reached >> No fireworks. And the trouble is that the I apologize to any Americans here, but the Americans got there first and they built a base under the ice. >> Now, you weren't allowed we weren't allowed as visitors. We flew in for a day to go in and use this base because it was it was only for scientific exploration and we couldn't fool them. We were scientific explorers. So we couldn't have a shower or anything like that, you know, and that's what you really wanted because there was nowhere in the Antar in Antarctica had a proper shower. But down there, we were allowed to go in during the day and we went in and they were all in their shorts, Bermuda shorts and eating sort of blueberry pie and listening to Chicago and I thought this is not right. [laughter] But the actual area around the pole itself, it's just a dump. It's full of sort of, you know, trucks and things like that. I mean, no romance at all. And of course, brought up on on the story of Scott and Ammonson. I mean, it's not very few stories of explor exploration which is as moving as that. >> Yeah. >> And Scott getting there just a few days later. >> Yeah. >> And Amazon leaving a little flag and saying, you know, hope you enjoy it. But nothing there now. It's all sort of it's got globes on sort of Oh, it's it's very tacky really. >> Oh, that's a shame. >> Yeah. Sorry about that. >> Oh, okay. [laughter] >> No, because a lot depends on mood, you know. I think you want to be in the middle of nowhere really and try and think what it must be like for them to get there. >> Yeah. I want to talk to you um about your [clears throat] um latest travel book in Venezuela. I'm just checking the time. Oh, we're fine. I'll do do that. I'll do that in a moment. What I wanted to ask you first though was just quickly about um because another theme throughout the work that you do is almost like folklore or a little bit supernaturally and I've recently been watching >> um small prophets that that you made with McKenzie Crook which is just so >> wonderful and >> he he seems to channel that se that same kind of >> gentle >> but very funny humor that you have as well. >> Um, so I just want >> That's good. No, I mean he I love his work because it is different from the general run of of of television. It takes quite a time for him to get it done and and things like detectorrist and gummage and all that very carefully thought out. He casts it quite well. He just knows exactly what he wants from it. Um, and it always comes out as something which people don't quite expect. I think that was the thing about small profits. I mean, I thought something about homunculi. How's this going to work? You know, give it our best shot. But to find that at that moment, it's exactly what people wanted. They don't want endless repeats of the night manager and all that sort of thing, people shooting each other and rooms blowing up all the time. And you get this simple tale of a sort of big supermarket in southern south, well, Cheshire really, not quite. South Manchester. Yes. >> And just everything every little detail he brings out is is is so on the ball and he never lets it's never a spare character was just there to let all have something even if it's just a reaction the man in the bucket store you know and he's kind of saying you know do you sell buckets all [laughter] on the wall he just >> and he says no >> and the man sort of doesn't he doesn't go away he just stops and tries to take this all in. [laughter] You don't have any buckets at all. >> No, >> but McKen McKenzie Crooks manager always asking if people need a break or have they have >> very good very good character, Gordon. Yeah. >> But you're very your your character is um so interesting as well because the character's in a care home, I think, and he he has all this information about the homunculi. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, what is a homunculi? [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, the I try and remember the lines. They're little creatures which you make in bottles. You can you can create them if you have the right combination of uh of water and and soil and all that. It was something again. It's McKenzie basing it on a bit of history >> because um you know the the my my character had is I think he'd been in Egypt or something during the war and he'd an Egyptian man who was very very a very good sort of um you know le collector of legends and stories and things like this and he managed to persuade this is what you could do. And of course, he'd never done it. Oh, and yes, he had once, done it. Yeah. But that's that's so it's all based really on on on folklore and someone saying, you know, this has been done. And as far as I know, it's absolutely true. >> Well, no one's disproved it. >> Yeah. >> No [laughter] proved it. You know, they're in the BBC now apparently. Someone said in BBC um entrance they've got the homunculi. >> Yeah. I've heard that. I've seen people taking photos of them. I've got something myself, >> but >> yeah. Um, thank you for thank you for talking about that. And just going back to the travel side of things. Um, so you obviously are still doing your travel shows and it seems like and maybe it's just the perception, but it seems like you're going to places that are >> even more potentially dangerous or they've got the reputation of being dangerous um or politically unstable in in certain circumstances. in your most recent documentary series and well the book as well, pardon me, the book as well was um you going to Venezuela. I wonder if you could just tell us a little bit about that journey and what that experience was like. >> I mean we were I've done the big journeys around the world but um what happened was that um Channel 5 and ITN got in touch with me in 2019 I think and said look we've found someone who can get you into North Korea. would you like to go to North Korea again? I said, "Yeah, I'd love to." So, I went to North Korea, which is which was interesting. And I think the little crew I the team I was with all felt something about that we were doing something a bit different and a bit special. And so, if we did a follow-up, it'd have to be somewhere, you know, which was not not on the general tourist map and people didn't know much about and you'd find out, you'd be able to tell people what it was like. And we chose Iraq because, you know, Iraq was was full of reporters and photographers and cameramen and films are coming out during the war. Soon as the war was over, everyone left and went elsewhere. And I I just wanted to know how the people of Iraq live now in a devastated country after all they've been through. And so that was you that that was that was the angle. It was a different way of looking at at the rest of the world and it wasn't travel. It wasn't tourism really. It was just trying to find out how people cope. And in in Iraq, of course, it was it was little things you do when you travel and do these things kind of you shifts your sort of whole perspective. And of course, you went to Iraq and there were children of six or seven who had not known the war. They just brought up with the mess after it and they were climbing over sort of bits of rubble and all that and being very chatty to me and asking me to come in and you know they they they was that was a that was an extraordinary sort of insight into how people deal with with with awful tragedy. So then we met just we we went to Nigeria which is the biggest country and the most populous country in Africa 220 million pretty chaotic enormous potential what's going on there well quite a lot of bad stuff but some good stuff as well then Venezuela I think we just chose that because no one no one never done a program about Venezuela as far as I know >> and whereas Colombia is on the travel list Venezuelan There really isn't and there must be a reason for that. And of course the reason was that you had Maduro and his government who were repressing the the country in in quite a serious way. >> But there was a moment in the in the series um where you were watching you're being told about the the challenging political situation by a journalist who quite bravely was was very candid about the situation. >> And then you go to your your hotel hotel room afterwards and he's it's just full propaganda. >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's again, you learn. That's the whole point about doing these journeys. You got to learn something you didn't know before. And I didn't really know about Venezuela. But but again, there was something happening there. The fact this journalist, the lady, I think, had been able to tell the story of Maduro and what was going on. >> Yeah. >> Whilst Madora was still in power. >> Yeah. that's um something that that that sort of suggests that there's some cracks in the system. If she can do that and can't be shut up, then somebody somewhere is going to feel exactly as she did. Um and it all happened, of course, it all fell apart much much quicker than any of us imagined. >> Um one of the the people that you met was a fellow travel writer. This my last last point before we go to some audience questions. And she said, she said, "The great thing about travel is that you learn things about yourself that you probably would never know." >> And I just wonder what you've learned. >> Um, well, that I'm more confused. >> Yeah. I thought I knew, you know, as I got older, I'd know about everything and I'd learn things and it would all fall into place and I'd sit in a chair and, you know, have a, you know, martini and that would be the that's the way life would go. And I realized didn't want that at all. I just want to keep going really. [laughter] People will sort of pay me to go around the world. What a great thing. Or even pay me to be in a care home. That's a perfect thing. You just sit in a chair all day long. [laughter] That's wonderful. So yeah. So I I learned that that nothing ever ends. There's no sort of there's no sort of perfect rhythm to your to your life. You've always got to be discovering new things and and keep yourself open to it to all that. Sometimes I do want to sit in a chair. >> Well, you are. >> Have you got a martini? By the way, [laughter] that's that's >> Anyway, so that's that's what I've learned really. >> Thank you. I'll move to some audience questions. I'm just going to have a check of the time. We've got time for some lady there who's got her hand up. >> 605. >> 605. We're >> Hi. Hello. >> Um firstly, can I just say thank you for so many moments of joy that you've given both me and particularly my father. >> Um [applause] the both moments of crying with laughter watching you and recalling and recounting the quotes over the years um have annoyed my mother endlessly and me and my father have enjoyed. So thank you. Um, and my question would be, um, if you could travel through time, is there a period of time and potentially a place that you would actually like to visit if you had that magical time machine that we would all like? >> Yeah, I mean, I would really I know it's slightly in, but but I'd like to go the periods I wrote about in the book Arabus um, and that extraordinary journey to Antarctica that they did in 1840. No one knows anything about it. It's never we all hear about Drake and the Armada and all these things and uh but it was the most extraordinary adventure and these people just ordinary seamean from around the coast of Britain you know were the first people to see Antarctica and land on Antarctica and what do they do they have parties on the ice and things like that and they they make statues of women all that not actually PC but I mean it's just it was just very I'd love to have been part of that that that team there and I kind of because I've read a lot about it I know quite a bit about the the various people and clearly there were some people you wouldn't want to travel anywhere with really irritating and there were others who who just were great and the painters and all that so I think probably I'd love to have been around at that time maybe not on the expedition but certainly when they came back and and this extraordinary amount there of material they brought Your book's amazing as well. We haven't we didn't even touch on Arabus. I I spoke to you during the pandmic but about that. So if you want to watch that you can catch up but the Arabus is an incredible book as well. All your books >> great story. Yeah. >> Yeah. And we'll go to another question if any the lady at front there. >> Sorry I keep choosing people that are furthest away from the mic. >> I can probably hear you but they can't hear you. See that's >> Oh nice red mic. >> Hello. >> Hello. Um, I'm been very big fan of you nearly 30 years since I've been in Japan and now I'm in the middle of my journey. I'm experienced uh living in London just for one year and I'm now thinking um I have a very surprised every day. I'm surprised every day about what's happening in my life. And for for you, you've been traveling through the world and met a lots of different people to to you. And what uh and like me, what kind of thing broke uh what your p perspective for seeing the everyday news? because you've you've sometimes you see news >> from the the edge of the world very very small people and maybe you've met them and what's the difference between the uh your perspective >> I mean I don't meet we don't interview politicians uh or or or sort of ministers and big shots in in political worlds in the country we've been to largely because you know it takes a long time and they never turn up on time and they just give you their script as they tell everyone else. So, I'm really trying to what we're trying to do is to meet people in the country just on the street or running a shop or running a store, running a business, uh, or someone you'll meet in a hotel. And what I found, you know, generally is that if you if you are able and it's not always you don't you don't have the you have the language problem, but if you are able to talk to people and just in the most simple way make some approach whether it's sort of enjoying a meal they've cooked or or or a joke or something like that, people are so similar. They they really are. I mean, you know, I don't want to make or I'm the last person to want to make the world bland and all that, but almost everywhere you go, you I I think there is hope that actually most people don't want to kill each other, which is quite, you know, sort of reassuring in a way, but the ones who do are seem to be in the ascendancy at the time. But it's it's really just finding out testing the sort of temperature of of of people around the world. And I mean some people are more open than others have just been to the Philippines and the Philippine is very very keen to talk to anybody about anything. Um and and yeah you learn that's that's you just that's how you learn and it takes you in different ways each time but generally speaking I would say I was reassured. >> I think we've got time for one last quick question. And there's a lady at the at the back there. >> So, thank you. Um, and those bloody Americans >> uh and the South [laughter] Pole. >> Um, but I'm thinking of how much communication has changed and media and medium over these decades that you've been producing material. >> Yeah. What is a technology or communication media or medium that you've yet to try that you'd like to? >> Well, I mean I I don't know about I'm really avoid AI in my particular business and I'm sure it's very very good for curing lots of diseases and making people very rich. But um I you know to me I like things to be human. I've got always tried to get that get the human touch. Um the things that have changed really it is communication now. So you can you can talk to people fairly quickly if if you're out filming you you you know you can save time that would what would have taken 3 hours before and getting through to a certain number in a certain city you can get it straight away. There's that and also I mean in pure terms of technology um the cameras now are pretty brilliant. I mean it's all high definition stuff and all that but also the lab work they can you know actually you can you can fix things and much more than you used to when we shot on film that was that that was it. You could make it you could grade it a little bit but basically you couldn't make it something that it wasn't. Now you can sort of make people look sort of brighter or darker or whatever. But the big the big um advantage for me uh has been the drone technology. I mean because that's just extraordinary. You can do driving through Africa or something like that or anywhere. And it used to be just you're in the vehicle and you get out, find the top of a mountain, put the camera up there, and you get a panorama. All that was quite difficult. And now you get a drone camera and they just they could enlarge the area where you were. You could see much more of the geography of where you were. So that's I mean that's really made a huge huge difference and made the world look much more attractive well and made you understand a little bit more about environments not just one place but in the in the context of all the other places around it. Thank you so much for all your amazing questions, Michael. Hopefully see you back here in 15 years for the >> Yeah, you Yeah, you help me up the stairs. >> Yeah, sure. >> Thank you so much. It's been such a pleasure. [applause] >> Thank you. [applause] >> [music]