Hiero TSC Meeting - 2026/08/04

Hello. Morning. Hey, good morning Good morning everybody. I don't think Hendrickk is back yet and uh I missed last week because I got disconnected from some some stuff but I'm back. But I was just wondering if there's any plan for the meeting or if we need needed somebody to run the meeting or let me know. I think we need someone to step up from the TSC to to share the meeting. >> Okay. Well, I am here and we can make that happen. >> All right. Maybe Jessica, you could share the um the screen and the the minutes. [clears throat] >> I've got my I can probably share my screen here. >> Yeah, I just posted the link of the the agenda in the chat. >> Oh, awesome. Awesome. Okay, give me one sec here, guys. Okay. Can Can everybody see my screen? >> Yes. >> Perfect. Okay. I'm coming in cold this morning, so apologies for any fumbles here. So, we've got um a short overview of the last TSC call. I am backfilling um some of these uh meeting summaries. I've yet to do um last week. Uh but if there's anybody at that TSC call, is there anything that they'd like to highlight from the last call on the 28th? I'm just looking at the agenda here. Uh we do have the hit vote review. >> Go ahead, Justin. >> Yeah, thank thank you. Sorry for uh stepping in just like that. um the um the two main the uh open issues uh I posted there I I posted them there. So those are mainly the two issues that we were discussing last time um in the last TSC call. >> Okay, great. Thank you. That's awesome. Thank you, Jessica. Um, okay. So, yeah, I guess that was a [clears throat] Does anyone else have have anything to add or any context to bring forward from the from the last TSC call or otherwise we can just move into some updates and stuff. Okay. Um, let's move forward to uh updates and events from committees or members. So, I just wanted to throw out the mic to the group here and just see if there's any updates from members or uh or or folks tuning into the call or you know any updates from the event side or or community side. Feel free to to chime in or raise your hand. >> Could we ask for a quick update on how um Rare Evo went from Jessica who I think attended? >> Oh, that'd be good. Jessica, >> yeah, absolutely. So um I think overall and and I I haven't checked if Michael is here too. Um but overall I feel like compared to last year uh this year's event was a little bit less attended in general. Um we had our in the first thing that we had during that the main day uh we had a presentation from uh myself and Ry uh regarding open governance and open source projects and basically walking uh anybody interested through the process of how uh projects come into LFTT and what does it look like to run a project that is completely open source and and oftent times open governance. So that went really well. That was received very well. We had about I would say 30 people in the room which was really impressive. We had like three three big round tables of 10 people and there were few other people that were even standing because there was no room left uh for seating. So compared to how the the event in general was less attended, it was really impressive to see 30 people in that room uh asking questions and uh learning how uh open governance works. So that was great and uh I will make sure to post the the slides in the awesome contributions repo. So if anybody's interested and uh so that that was main mainly in the morning and then uh Michael Cantor and uh couple of guys from GoDaddy had their panel and that was in the big main stage area and that went actually really well. It was um uh very well attended and it it we we had like a full session there. was uh about half a half an hour, but um I'll let uh Michael jump in and see what do you think about the half an hour. I I feel like half an hour was a little bit short, but I feel like the the panelist was able to cover everything. So, in my opinion, I think it it went really well. And after that um we had a workshop from Michael Caner that was also uh very very well attended. Most most of the attendees were students that were wanted to learn about new topics during the conference in general. So that actually was very interactive and I was posting few updates live of uh Michael giving the presentation and explaining um several uh topics from his presentation. So if you go to the I think in the higher announcements is where I posted a couple of pictures and a short video of Michael doing his presentation. So that presentation was very wellreceived and even after the presentation was uh finished, many people approached Michael to continue talking to him. So I know I see Michael right now and yeah I I'll let you jump in with any any updates from your side. >> Yeah, sorry I'm coming in a little bit late here. Um yeah, the Arya event from Ario was I think it was really great. We had a bunch of people kind of like show up. uh attendance was a little bit surprising for folks. Um but I think the the panel that we did with GoDaddy was really well received and the workshop that Jessica did live on the LFDT uh everyone at the conference said that that was like the main attraction. It was the most filled up room. I think there weren't actually any more seeds left in that workshop. That's how packed it was. and they had this really cool quiz that shows really engaged with the with the audience. I think um if anything at all that workshop is like a prime example to follow on how to run a workshop and make sure that people don't fall asleep and actually pay attention and get something out of it. Um, and the the panel that we did with GoDaddy was really great to [clears throat] um I think it's always fun to be on stage and really grateful for the LFDT and Project Hyro for making that opportunity possible. >> Hey Michael, this is Alex. I I'm I'm curious in the discussions particularly when you talk about AI governance the agent um registries and things like that if some of the news events of late uh sparked uh increased interest uh in this particular area and I'm wondering in the uh panels that was something that uh you heard uh that was driving uh that sort of Um well what kind of news are you talk like uh for example the hugging pig incident with >> Yeah. Yeah. just people just just opening up the whole uh aspect around AI governance in general uh and moving away from just just start throwing AI against the wall and see what sticks to wait a second we need to have better uh guard rails we need to have better uh governance overall including you know what's running where it's running etc especially in an open capacity as opposed to some of these closed uh registries that are you know done either through the hyperscalers or or what have you. So I'm just just didn't know if that was uh a driver of of some of the interest there and and I raised that too just to see to what extent are some of these trends areas that are are worth further exploring uh for future uh roadmap development. >> Yeah, I think it's a really big place. I mean obviously at HOL we've been screaming about this from the rooftops for like the last two years. >> Um >> when you kind of look at the broad picture and historically what tends to happen with industry. So for example uh people think about oh why was two-factor authentication or multiffactor authentication created by Google and it it actually the roots pertain to a social engineering hack that happened inside of Google's search engine where a nation state actor was able to get inside of Google system so that they can look at the data coming into social engines right and after that we had MFA and 2FA. Historically, we create these things after there's an incident, after there is a loss of funds or after there's PII that gets exposed, that's when regulation comes in, that's when guardrails gets built and so forth. And you look at now, hey, this hugging face incident, hey, we're worried about our AI escaping its uh sandbox. Hey, my AI has hacked into five corporations. No, my AI has hacked into 10 corporations. This is a real thing that's happening right now where these public companies are are talking about how uh cyber their models are. And there is a lot of interest from enterprises and businesses. Okay. Well, I'm hearing about the big bad wolf. How do I protect myself? What is the right solution here? And I think when it comes to cryptography and distributed layer systems and blockchains, we've kind of been at the forefront of this because we're always thinking about security because security isn't just, hey, we will send out a press release, send an email, and everything will be fine. No, if there is a security issue, all uh trust is lost instantly and your business can evaporate overnight as a public ledger, public good. Um, so it's always something that I think instinctually for all the people in this room that we think about, right? And then when you have conversations with folks in the AI industry, the typical solution to an AI problems that throw more AI at it, right? Like hallucinations, governance and so forth, like, hey, our context isn't good enough. Let's just put more AI in front of it. Let's use more GPU resources. But then when you kind of explain the power of a blockchain distributed layer technology, hey, you've got this system that replicates itself across 39 nodes that are all over the planet. And specifically on Hideera, these are Fortune 500 plus companies that have a lot of reputation and stay on the line. And then the response you typically get is like, oh wow, number one, I didn't know that this was a thing. And number two, I can see how valuable this is from the AI conversation when it comes to research audit trails and so forth. So I fully expect that uh blockchains should be involved in this specific conversation because it makes sense really from like the DT aspect and there is interest to kind of look at this area. So for example like the collaboration that we're doing with GoDaddy and the development of 208 CS standards where we're taking uh the data in the agent name service which is a DNS system that runs on uh ANS servers and then publishing it onto the hierro uh consensus service and saying hey um you don't have to just trust GoDaddy you can verify it across these 32 plus notes all across the So I think you can apply that same logic to a lot of these audit and governance related problems. >> Yeah. No, no, that's exactly what I was thinking and just bringing it up just as we're looking uh to the future, how uh not only are there native capabilities that need to be either expanded um be and obviously the work that that you're doing is uh leveraging those resources in these specific use cases uh and then standardizing them uh within an open- source environment. So again, just just food for thought. Uh but it was it just kind of coincidental the that sort of AI governance interest and the uh the very publicized uh events uh like hugging face that have um been drivers towards that. >> Yeah. And in terms of like the the road map and the implementation, you know, I think the hyro consensus service as it stands kind of allows for most of the things that you would want to create audit trails and governance. Now the tricky part isn't necessarily building more for that service. And I'm sure there's a few things that we can do like around key management and such. Um, and a few hips that I've raised like around immutability topics that would be kind of helpful. But on that broader note, the harder part is defining the specifications, getting all of the stakeholders in the room like the enterprises and the businesses and getting them to agree on a specific specification. And then once they've agreed it's building out the layer above the hiero consensus service like the SDKs, the parsers, the explorers, that kind of stuff. So it's not really the native layers of the service, but the layers that kind of go above it that do need investment uh and road mapping. And obviously it goes without saying that's an area that we're happy to help with. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and in the area when you talk about the ANS service, I one of the scenarios that I think about is large enterprises and particularly when they do like split brain uh DNS and being able to have a private registry uh as well as leveraging the public registry as part of the the governance framework. Uh so they don't necessarily expose maybe you know uh agent or agent solutions uh that are aren't meant for public consumption but still have the same consistent uh governance methodology. >> Yeah, exactly. It's the internet versus the internet. Um my theory is we're going to get to a hundred billion maybe even a trillion agents and that's backed by research that's coming out of MIT but not all those agents will be public. A lot of those agents will be private. So like for example you can have an organization like Google and every single employee at Google might have two or five agents and most of those agents are just talking to each other inside the organization doing things like booking meetings, coordinating work and other things. But then maybe 10% of the organization will have agents that are front-facing that the public should be able to hit to do business and exchange services and that kind of thing. So I couldn't agree more. >> Well, thanks for indulging my questions. Appreciate >> awesome stuff. Um, thank you for all that info and stuff about the event and all the deep dive on that, Michael. That's uh that's amazing. Good questions, Alex, as well. Um, okay. So, just on this topic here, so any anyone else have any other updates or event related stuff they wanted to share? Otherwise, we can move on to some of these hit vote stuff. Okay. So, let's take a look at this first link here. So, Jessica, you did you create these? >> Yes. >> I I I created the two issues that are ready for voting. I think one of them has I think both of them actually have few votes already on them. Mhm. >> Um yeah, but those those were the hips that we covered last uh meeting. >> Gotcha. Okay. So, that was the first. So, looks like HIP [clears throat] 1068 did not pass. And then we've got HIP 1342. >> The boat is still open. Um >> Gotcha. Okay. >> It's still open for another week if I'm not mistaken. Um they >> Okay. Interesting. cuz I saw I saw a post here 20 minutes ago. It said vote closed. >> Oh, okay. That one that one did close. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Um, >> okay. Gotcha. >> I think that was uh Can you open that one again? I think that was the couple of comments. >> Yeah, we had a comment from from Richard as well. >> Yeah. And if the DSC wants to continue uh looking into this or evaluating this, I I can reopen the vote. Um or I'm not sure if uh this is the result that uh I I'm sure the six people that not vote didn't voted uh will probably want the opportunity to vote again. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um I sent a chat message as well. Uh, okay. Gotcha. Never mind. Yeah, just visibility on the votes. Um, so yeah, if we get some more visibility for folks and we could probably get um these things squared up and continue the conversation, but uh perfect. Okay, then this one's still open by the looks of it. Awesome. >> Yeah, that's correct. >> Okay. Um well, that's very helpful. I'm going to open up a new tab for this for myself to review. Um any questions on those two items, folks? So, it looks like we have um one HIP that has not gone through that I think just needs a little more visibility for voting. And then we've got the second HIP that is currently um has voting open for the TSC, but just wanted to take a moment and see if anyone had anything else to add on these. >> Um I was just wondering what the process timeline might be. I was hoping to get 1068 um approved by TSC and then TechComm um early August, but if it's since it failed, what what's the procedure >> once the uh once it goes for voting? I think it's a week >> usually if it's up for voting. But I was going to ask Brandon, could you paste those two in the channel for Jessica? >> Absolutely. Yeah. I can grab them right here real quick. >> Actually, there is two weeks uh timeline for voting, but since the first one didn't had any abstains uh or any votes from six of the DSSE members, I wonder if the first one we should re reopen the vote depending on what the TSC thinks. >> Yeah, just to raise a point, I know that there was there was some connectivity connectivity issues for some TSC members. um you know it to for visibility in different channels um to no fault of the TSC at all. I mean I um a quick note I'm [clears throat] I'm no longer at at Hgraph for example. So my Slack account got disconnected. So I think there just might be some visibility issues. I know Milan was having a problem as well. Slack can be a bit finicky. So I think that um there's some shuffling happening happening around and and uh some lack of visibility. So, a regroup and I think almost a retry would be would be worth it. But, uh, let me know what other folks think, Michael, if you have any thoughts. >> Yeah. And actually, now that I recall this, this was also part of the conversation from last TSA meeting because um, we were discussing what was the best uh way to reach the TSC membersh to let them know that these boats are being open. So for example, right now the process is to uh get them tagged in the issue, but I don't know if many people like uh GitHub notifications and I understand that they're a little bit uh complicated to organize. So I was uh suggesting also either discord which uh I don't have all ts members present on discord and the other option was email which I sent the email uh to the uh to the TSC members that I have their email address. I think I'm missing uh your new email Brandon and Stoyan's email. Those are the only two emails that I didn't I I wasn't able to get. But um reaching the DSC via email, that's another option that I can do. So it it all depends on what's the what the TSA members thinks is best uh for for them to be reached at. >> Gotcha. I just sent you my new my my uh my email in the chat there, Jessica. >> Thank you so much. >> No problem. Yeah, I I think Milan and I are also trying to reach the TSC as well in Slack. Slack Slack is a is an issue. So, we'll get it sorted. Um and and sincere apologies to folks waiting for this stuff to to get through. There's a lot of shuffling and kuffling happening around in everyone's respective corners. Um but when Hendrickk is back, I know we'll be able to get folks plugged back in. Um so, Ty, a apologies on on that. Um and we'll work to move this forward as as best we can. Um, so >> would you like to vote for 296 >> if everyone's comfortable with it? I think that personally and everyone feel free to share thoughts from the TSC that's here, but I think it would we could chalk it up to folks such as myself and Milan or whatever getting booted out of channels to no one's fault and just some disconnective stuff happening. So, I think it might be a good idea, especially with the timeline that that Tai has on this potentially we rerun the vote and see if we can um make sure to get visibility on it for everybody. So, if there's no objection to that just because I think that's a good idea. >> Yeah, I'm with that. I'm I'm I'm board it. >> Yeah, >> perfect. Thank you. I'll I'll reopen it right now. >> Awesome. Thank you so much. Um yeah, any other thoughts from folks? No, I agree. This is good. And and Jessica, it's I think it's good that you also email and you know um I mean uh I think the the GitHub notifications just very confusing you know some it's like you get all loads and then you kind of have to sift through it and then suddenly you miss one. But uh yeah this is great and also obviously during the TSC calls I think that works even best. Um yeah >> thank you. Thank you Melan for your feedback. >> Perfect. And just to wrap up on this topic, um just to throw an idea out there from from a TSC perspective, I know that um we do have a chat in Slack, but it might be a good idea to move to a more open platform that wouldn't require folks to be part of an organization or pay for an account to, you know, if if a TSC if the TSC membership maybe votes someone on that doesn't use utilize Slack, maybe using a more um you know, open widely available communication platform. platform that's still secure, maybe like Telegram or something that's common in the blockchain space and open source space might be beneficial. Just throwing that idea out there, but no need for a topic of discussion. Um, okay. Any other business? O open up the floor and uh feel free. I mean, we've got a little bit of time here. So, I mean, even exciting announcements that folks have that that would be interesting or important to the open source IRO community or anything coming up that we should focus on next meeting, feel free to raise your hand or or chime in. Uh Jessica, can you remind I think we talked about last week. Can you remind me when the next uh TC vote is and how that uh will go, if it's if it's anytime soon. >> Yeah, for sure. So, it's going to be in September and uh we're we're going to be sending reminders uh on the next uh TSC meetings and I I I believe uh it will probably be helpful if in the next TSC meeting I I do a short presentation on the process for anybody that is new to the process and the uh the nomination process is going to start uh we we should get also the nomination process started as well before the September vote. So, uh I'll work with Hrik on organizing the timelines, but uh yeah, the the present I'll do a presentation on the next TSSE meeting uh just uh on on um uh just a quick overview, we have uh three TSSE positions that are going to be open. So I know that Hendrickk also out of the new TSC members, he wanted to have a a co-chair. Uh so one one of those uh TSC members uh it's available to step as a co-chair as well for whoever wants to do that. And I believe uh Hendrick's position also is going to be open for either reelection or for um a new member to step in as the chair of the TSC. So that that is um so far the information I got but uh next TSC meeting I'm I'm going to do a presentation. >> Perfect. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Perfect. Any anyone else with uh important updates or questions or anything for the group? Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Jessica. >> Oh, thank you, Alex. This is pretty quick. Just a reminder that uh next Thursday we have the community call. So I know that we have seen overall less attendance in the community call and other project calls as well but I just wanted to uh to try to attempt to revive those and revive the attendance. So uh uh please uh join us on the uh community call and let's uh bring in the uh uh traction for how we used to run those meetings on any topics that the community wants to talk about. Uh if there's nothing that the community wants to talk about for Thursday, I'll make sure that I prepare something uh for us to to review and send the agenda beforehand. So, just a reminder that um this community call is happening on Thursday. So, I'm excited to see everybody there. >> That's awesome. Alex, feel free to chime in as well. >> Yeah, sure. So uh uh a few weeks ago I had raised uh discussion around a midyear review and getting a sense of the the health of the project. I know some of the topics or or areas that were uh identified as potential things to uh address during this kind of mid-year review were uh things like um uh uh the security scoring or the uh raising issues around uh disengagement uh you know lack of maintainers and things like that. And I'm and I'm curious whether that's something that uh you know other TSSE members see as valuable as opposed to just waiting till the end of the year and hoping that everything's good. Um sorry I I kind of biased that that question. Uh but um just wondering if that's people find as a worthwhile request to uh get a an update of the all the underlying uh uh repos and activities uh within Hyro just so that we can potentially address or identify issues that um might be laid dormant for months until we get to the kind of annual annual review. That's just an open question. is do people think that this is worthwhile for us to try and reach out to the uh projects to elicit some sort of kind of status update um or do we just leave it to to an annual um uh review? >> So Jessica um this is Diane um what is the timing on the next review that's due to the TAC? I apologize for not >> not knowing that off the top of my head. >> Yeah, sure. No problem. Uh I actually wanted to comment on that. Uh we have it for September 9th. So um I know that we have um a couple of sessions that we did at the beginning of the year uh regarding the goals that we want to do. So, I wanted to suggest uh I I I'm completely uh um I I completely agree with what Alex was saying that we need a uh midyear review and this would have be perfect timing before the the check-in with the tag. So, that's going to be happening on September 9, but uh definitely will be a good idea for everybody. Uh, I don't know if you guys wanted to do it in the TSC meeting or we can do it in the maintainers um maintainers call that happens at the end of the month. That might be a little bit too late, but it will be a great idea to to have a review of what uh what are we doing and uh what are we struggling with? >> I think if we were to do something like this, I'd recommend just doing it on the TSC call. then we probably get the widest attendance versus one of the other calls. Uh like personally for myself, my calendar is super crazy and this is this meeting is the only one I can remember to come to. So I think a lot of people are in that same boat. Yeah. And ultimately I think just because of the remit of the charter for having this kind of visibility and governance by the TSC um I think it's relevant to do it uh or at least have the review um overview performed during a TSC call. So, um this is just Diane again. the I'm wondering um Jessica if it's helpful in the m when is the next maintainer meeting and if um the different maintainers wanted to create subreports that we could then consolidate up into the main report that we have to submit or if they would just perhaps like to give a presentation and update to the the TSC on their project um and verbally and and give a presentation there and we might collect that information and the whole TSC would get informed as well at the same time because I know sometimes we do these reports um kind of you do it and Hendrickk does it and I do it and we don't really bring it to TSC. Um so maybe if we do this in a more open process it might be helpful. >> Yeah. So the next maintainers is on the 26th of August. So that that might be a bit um pushing it close to when the report for the TC is due. Um I would suggest that next TSC call we're already planning on talking about the elections. So I think it would have be a good timing also to um maybe take uh the uh first half an hour or 45 minutes how how much we need to talk about the project. um performance in general plus the elections. So and and and take it from there if we need more time uh during following DSSE calls. But um this is I I remember we also brought this up in the past DSSE member the past DSC meetings about uh what the road map um team was um uh helping us uh test in the road map repo. So I know that this is also related to the process of teams publishing uh what are they're working on and how is their project doing. So I was interested in seeing if there was any updates from from that particular project. But in general, I I believe that it will be a great idea if I can prepare as the content for the next DSSE meeting if everybody's okay with that. And I know that uh I I'll be able to sync up with Hrik on Monday. So that should give me enough time for for me and he to review the content before the TSA meeting. >> Sounds sounds good to me. If maybe we wait for Hendrickk and see what what he already has in mind. Yeah. >> Mhm. And yeah, I mean we definitely need to prepare for the content for the report for the tech. I know that the process of how are the kind of pro the the process that we used to do on uh quarterly reports is a little bit different from the annual reports and I believe the midyear reports is more consistent to how we report on the annual report. So uh I know that uh a few of us have posted some content on how uh the project performance is doing. So if uh we can also start building from there. I I I often like to start a PR and have people collaborating to it. So I can do that as well. >> Awesome. Thanks. Are there any hips on the on the menu today to review that need to be brought up or brought forward? >> Yeah, it's a good question, Diane. We have what's in here in the uh agenda, but um yeah, interested to hear. Let's have a moment and see if there's any hips that we should take a look at. Going once. Going twice. Okay. Well, I think that we're through the call here. Just last chance for any other business and we can probably wrap things up. Diane, I see you still unmuted. Let me know if there's anything else you want to add. >> Nope, I'm all good. Thanks. >> Okay, awesome. Well, folks, I think that we can wrap it up here. Um, good call. Appreciate um the uh patience with my unpreparedness here and any hiccups that we have, but appreciate everyone uh listening in here and participating. Um and uh yeah, any easy times out there, but I think that showing up and contributing and um you know, participating, I think that uh this is the best of Hyro. So, really appreciate everyone um popping in and contributing and uh keeping the momentum going here. Really appreciate you all. So, we'll see you at the TSC call next week. >> Thank you. >> Talk to you. Bye. >> Thanks for uh taking the lead there, Brandon. Much appreciated. >> Hey, no problem, sir. You take care. You as well.