Video summary
Professor Sally McManus, a leading expert in social epidemiology and director of the Violence and Society Centre at City St George's University London, delivered an inspiring keynote addressing the critical value of national survey infrastructure for understanding population mental health. Drawing on her extensive background spanning market research, government strategy units, non-profit institutes, and academia, she emphasized that surveys are a uniquely democratic tool that gives voice to entire societies in ways no other mechanism can. She argued passionately against the common misconception that such studies are merely expensive burdens; instead, she posited that high-quality longitudinal data is an essential investment because it provides the only reliable source for tracking trends over time, identifying inequalities, and understanding complex social phenomena like domestic abuse, housing instability, and access to healthcare services.
The presentation highlighted the unique strengths of repeated cross-sectional surveys, specifically citing the Adult Psychiatric Morbidity Survey (APMS) as a historic record that has maintained consistent methodology since 1993, allowing for thirty years of uninterrupted trend analysis. McManus illustrated how these detailed face-to-face interviews capture nuances that administrative or service data alone cannot reveal, such as distinguishing between suicide attempts and non-suicidal self-harm, or identifying the rising prevalence of cannabis dependence driven by changes in potency rather than just consumption rates. She shared compelling stories from the data showing significant disparities based on socioeconomic status, noting for instance that individuals living in the most deprived areas are far more likely to suffer from severe mental illnesses like psychosis compared to those in affluent neighborhoods, thereby exposing deep-seated social inequities that require targeted policy intervention.
Furthermore, McManus used specific case studies to demonstrate how survey data can shift understanding away from purely genetic explanations toward recognizing the profound impact of early adversity and violence on later outcomes. She presented research indicating that individuals who use violence often have histories of childhood trauma and poor mental health, yet they are just as likely to engage with non-punitive mental health services as other patients, suggesting these services could be pivotal points for preventing future harm. Despite the availability of rich datasets covering demographics from age sixteen upwards and various adversities including victimization and substance use, she concluded with a urgent call to action: since funding for new surveys has not yet been commissioned after a decade-long gap in child mental health studies, researchers across all sectors must unite their voices to advocate for continued investment. She stressed that without this collective effort from government, academia, think tanks, and the third sector, we risk losing an invaluable historical record essential for safeguarding public well-being and guiding effective social policy.
Read the full video transcript
I'll introduce Sally,
who is our keynote presenter. Really
pleased that she's here to give the
keynote today. So, Professor Sally
McManus is Professor of Social
Epidemiology at City, St. George's
University of London,
and director of the Violence and Society
Centre. She's widely recognized for her
work on measuring mental health and
understanding how social factors, such
as inequality, violence, and adversity
shape well-being across the population.
Sally has played a leading role in
England's National Mental Health
Surveys, helping to build one of the
most important evidence bases on
population mental health anywhere in the
world.
Her research studies key issues,
including self-harm and suicide, with a
strong focus on trends over time and
inequalities.
Alongside her academic work, she has a
long-standing role at the National
Centre of Social Research, ensuring her
research has direct relevance to policy
and practice.
So, over to you, Sally. Really looking
forward to this.
>> All right. Brilliant. I um
delighted to be here, but also um yeah,
can everyone hear me okay? Cool. Um
really
totally get it, but
so sad not to be in a lovely room with
you all, because this is one of the
loveliest events in the annual calendar
where we all come together. And what um
what I like, what I really like about
this event, is that we
come together from so many different
places. And that means that as a group,
we collectively have this enormous
reach. So, my kind of route to here is
um I started out in a market research
agency back in the day. That was BMRB
International, no longer called that.
And then I went to a non-profit uh
social research institute. Back in the
day, that was called SCPR, and some of
you will remember it from that, and many
of you will have passed through its
doors as the National Centre for Social
Research. Did a little bit of time in
government, so um that was then the
Strategy Unit, um Cabinet Office, and
then the last few years been in a
university.
But what I think is really important
about us as a collective is that many of
us have worked across many these
different sectors, and many of us have
also many of you will have also worked,
for example, in third sector
organizations, in campaign groups, and
using survey data in a range of
different ways.
We also, although we have this common
kind of understanding of a focus on
health,
what are the consequences from poor
health, and what what leads us into poor
health, we also we come at it from so
many different angles. So we're looking
at this in terms of families and what
goes on in families, socioeconomic
factors, in housing, in neighborhoods,
in schools, in workplaces, violence and
crime in a range of different settings.
So that's something which is also makes
us a very diverse group.
And then finally, I think and this is a
really key sort of difference about us
as a as a collective is that some of us
know absolutely everything about one
thing, particularly if you're coming
from an academic uh environment, and
others,
I tend to put myself in this box, like
to sort of spread across wide range of
different topics. So
we really come at this from many many
different perspectives, but what I think
>> [clears throat]
>> is probably the thing that actually
unites all of us on a very hot and sunny
day to be thinking about uh surveys is
that there's something, I get quite
emotional, there's something about
surveys which is
incredibly democratic and beautiful in a
way that it gives voice to whole
societies.
And I don't know of any other real way
where people's own voice, and yes, we do
constrain the options available. We do
say this or this, and occasionally
there's an open text box, but basically,
we're treating everybody in the similar
way, giving but different voices are
coming out in that. And gosh, what I
would love for us to come away from this
event day is that
we know the value of this, and this
infrastructure, this way of gathering
insight from lots and lots of different
people
only exists because there is support,
infrastructure, investment, and all of
us articulating a need for it. And
sometimes we're the only ones who
actually understand the real value of
these surveys. So, what I wanted to do
today was just a little bit like we can
all come away with that elevated pitch,
and when you're in the lift with Andy
Burnham or whoever, that you're able to
say why actually in a resource
constrained environment this is actually
worth fighting for.
Um generally, we talk about respondents.
I would like us to be talking about It
doesn't just have to be the quality to
talk about participants. There is agency
involved if we recognize and talk about
the people who are taking part in these
studies are participants, and when we're
talking about findings, we're talking
about people. We're talking about
children and adults and families. So,
ensuring that this has a reach in
everything that we say and do and we're
articulating the need for this. Now,
some people out there
some people out there say surveys cost a
lot and they're expensive.
And I think that we're the ones, nobody
else, it's not their fault, they don't
know, but
we're the ones who actually know that
surveys cost well
good surveys
that's the key thing. Good surveys cost
a lot.
But
just looking at what comes out of an
event like today, they are an absolute
bargain in terms of the mileage, the
reach, the impact that can come out of
them.
So, what we have to be aware of is that
of course
my taxpayers' money
how do we reach
both the funders and the participants
in ways
that explain the value of what we're
doing.
And of course they'll come back and say,
"Well, look, I know that there are
nearly 4 million people last year who
experienced domestic abuse in England
and Wales and I know that I and a third
of people can't get a GP appointment
when they need one and I know that one
in four parents aren't able to take
their families out for a day out
together and have the resource to be
able to do that and that a fifth of the
properties
uh in the private rental sector fail
decent home standards.
Now of course you all know that the only
reason we know any of these things is
because of surveys and that there aren't
really other mechanisms for finding out
most of these things other than by going
out, talking and asking people.
I was going to have a picture here of
John Cleese saying "And what what have
the Romans done for us?" But actually UK
has a very wisely cautious about the use
of images and the copyright protection
around them. So, you're just going to
have to imagine John Cleese in his But,
what what what are the surveys done for
what other than be our best and only
source on understanding the extent of
social phenomena? So, how many, what
proportion, who is affected and who
isn't affected?
It's our really our best way of knowing
things are going up or things are going
down.
It's our best way of understanding gaps,
what gets missed and inequalities. Who
gets missed? Who doesn't get the
services? Cuz we're never going to get
that from service data in isolation.
And is this nuanced way that we collect
so much different information on
individual people that enables us to
profile a really complex and rich
context environments and impact. Now, I
know many of you are absolutely
brilliant on the longitudinal and the
birth cohorts and that's where the
impact is really rich in terms of
understanding individual trajectories.
But, I just want to also make a case for
those repeated cross-sectional surveys.
So,
many of you will have seen this slide
before. We all have our favorite survey.
My favorite survey
is the badly named adult psychiatric
morbidity survey. Favorite survey, least
favorite name, but we just call it the
mental health surveys. It's funded by
NHS England by Department of Health and
Social Care.
Has been run by ONS in the past,
National Centre for Social Research now
with uh Leicester throughout.
Um
rich rich program of research. Actually,
the longest-running mental health survey
series in the world to have used the
same measures over time with fresh
cross-sections.
Other places in the world have tended to
change their questions and their
measures. So, this is something that we
just need to nurture and make the case
for because if we lose this, we're
losing 30 years of of of trend history.
Um
So, just focusing on those adult surveys
that started back in 1993. Now, you
think of the UK Data Service is where
you get your data.
It's much more than that. It is a source
of historical record. This is the
questionnaire in the 1993 adult
psychiatric morbidity survey. Someone
with a biro has written
>> [clears throat]
>> all of the codes, all of the different
bits. You can see it all scanned in.
It's It's It's a historical document of
still where this survey is going. It was
paper-based at the start
and and has evolved over time.
We don't even have the report from the
'93 survey online because there isn't a
digital copy available. So,
there's the link down there. You can get
the 1993 survey. We use it all the time.
It was from another era, but it still
matters. Now, some of you will know
Howard Meltzer. Um he and a whole team
of people at ONS got together with the
epidemiologists and the psychiatrists
and the clinicians and the civil
servants, and they designed this study
together. But, just to say I miss Howard
and he and many of us do and and he was
a very
uh extraordinary person.
And Sarah Morris at the National Centre
for Social Research is carrying on and
done an absolutely superb job with the
2024 survey. So, it continues and and
new generations of leadership come
through.
Just wanted to flag up. So, from the
1993 survey, the highest income
threshold was 30K or more. So, I think
many of us are now in the highest income
threshold group. And just the the the
the the quality of um uh uh photocopying
has definitely gone up uh over the
years.
But what I would just wanted to flag is
that what's been key is that the way in
which we've introduced the survey,
everything many things have changed, but
the way in which the survey is
introduced is so similar. It's about the
stresses and strains, it's about health
and well-being as a whole, and that's
really stayed consistent over time. We
do have laptops now, so there have been
have been changes. Okay. So,
repeated cross-sectional, comparable
methods,
random fresh sample each time, right up
to age 16, so we can look at that
adolescent transition.
Some in the data set over 100, though to
you they're 95+.
That's our disclosure.
Um
detailed interviews in-home,
face-to-face, human being to a human
being, verified, not an AI bot. We know
that they're a genuine person there. And
there's something about that rapport.
Talking to interviewers, they know about
the emotional investment it takes to be
part of a study like this. They sit down
at a table, and sometimes there's tears,
and sometimes there's cups of tea, and
there's laughter, and there's something
incredibly human. It's an intervention
in and of itself.
Two-phase design and assessment of range
of different mental disorders to a more
detailed level than on many studies. And
it's about that specificity
that I was going to focus a bit on
today. And this is perhaps another
reason why face-to-face is also
particularly important for a study of
this nature,
um
particularly which is covering
conditions such as
uh autism and psychotic disorder as
well.
Now, what I just wanted to do, and what
I may not be speed up a that. Is
four short stories that just tell us
things that we couldn't get from, I
think, any source other than a survey.
So, looking at the APMS data from '93
through to 2024, what are we seeing?
We're seeing that broad pattern. Now, we
use the clinical interview schedule
revised, which is over 130 items. It's
really, really detailed. 14 different
types of neurotic symptoms, very complex
algorithm. This pattern we're seeing
from other data sets as well, which use
simpler measures. But,
>> [snorts]
>> with a much more specific approach, we
can start to see quite different
patterns as well underlying those wider
trends in mental health. For example,
generalized anxiety disorder, very rare
around the turn of the century, and has
increased substantially over time.
Another way in which the survey looks at
mental health in a much more specific
way is asking both about things like
suicidal thoughts, where we are seeing
an increase over time, but not a
dramatic one, compared with the change
we're seeing over time in terms of
people's reporting of non-suicidal
self-harm. So, just to compare those two
trends, if we're looking at suicidality
and self-harm, it's really important
that we're we're really quite sort of
precise and clear as to what statistics
that we're looking at. And that means we
need to have space for real specificity
of measurement.
What this chart shows is amongst people
who reported that they'd made a suicide
attempt,
what sort of support did they get
afterwards? Now, we see that women tend
to be more likely than men to get
support afterwards from whatever source
they're going to, informal or formal.
But, just to focus there on hospital
emergency service A&E.
If studies are dependent on looking at
who presents to A&E after having
self-harmed, A will be underestimating
men in particular, but B will be not
capturing 3/4 to 2/3 of those who have
made a suicide attempt. So, it's really
important that we look more widely. And
it's very important where we're using
health service data, but we need to use
the survey data to put that in context.
Consumption. So, lots of studies ask
about substance consumption. This very,
very messy chart has got lots of
different age groups, and this is those
reporting 16 or more on the audit. But
if we just pick out two age groups,
oh,
my age group,
we're a right mess, we are. Um
2%
were had patterns of alcohol
that were not good for you. So, we're
we're talking here 16 plus, so this is
uh, you know, high risk of alcohol harm,
possible dependence. So, about 2% at
turn of the century, we've doubled. So,
you know, how are we going to age later
on? There's going to be stuff going on.
But do we not need to worry about the
kids? So, um 16-24 year olds, sorry if
you're there and I called you a kid, but
you guys are doing great on the alcohol.
Uh we're seeing that plummeting.
But
what do we know about drugs?
So, for some reason, we take our drug
data from crime surveys. Now, crime
surveys are A victimization surveys.
They ask about what illegal things have
been done to you. So, they're not
necessarily the best place to find out
what illegal things you've been doing.
Whereas in the context of a study that's
about health and well-being, it's a bit
less punitive, and we tend to find
higher reporting. So, both in general,
there's slightly different measures
included, but also when we're looking at
those specific individual drugs, we tend
to find on the
health survey
slightly higher reporting than we get on
the crime survey. But, whatever whatever
measure we use, we tend to find the
proportion in the population
um
just, you know, for the last sort of
decade, not huge amount of change in
prevalence of drug use.
So, is that okay, then?
Well,
how do we explain then that the
proportion of the population as a whole
with signs of dependence, particularly
on cannabis, has almost doubled this
century, this decade only? So, something
is happening there. Now, when we ask
about dependence, we're asking about
things like daily use, sense of
dependence, if you're finding you're
struggling with abstaining, you know,
you're needing to use more, or you're
experiencing withdrawal symptoms. So,
just coming back to this chart here,
proportion of people using stayed the
same, proportion with signs of
dependence is doubling. Now, actually,
this is consistent with what we're
seeing in police seizure of cannabis.
Police seizure of cannabis is finding
that cannabis is not the same drug. It's
far more potent than it was in the past.
It's far more likely to be cut with
impurities, including the synthetic
cannabinoids, and we've got changes in
the ways in which people take cannabis.
So, it's easier to take it at more
regular periods of time with vaping
devices and the like. So, we shouldn't
just stop at consumption. We need to
also be asking about things like
dependence, and not many studies do
that. So, it's really important that we
keep the studies that do. We've also
added in
new items on the most recent study, and
if you're interested in the opioid
crisis in America, I'd highly recommend
this book. It's an absolute fabulous
read. Um but what we're finding is about
3% of adults reporting use of
prescription opioids that were not
prescribed for them.
This is something we need to monitor.
And unless we ask everybody in the
population, we're not going to get a
tick from The Americans only knew about
the opioid crisis that was happening
when people were dying and it was
through their investigation of death
statistics. Let's get in there before we
see patterns like that. I don't think we
are going to see patterns like that for
many reasons, but we haven't got time to
get into the map, but it's another
reason.
Just to flag up.
If you ask people with signs of drug
dependence, have you ever used drug
dependence services? Most never have. We
see the same thing for drinking. We see
the same thing for uh problem uh
gambling. And
very unlikely to be found uh the
majority of people or if you're looking
at service data. And where they are
using services, it tends to be things
like self-exclusion blocking software.
So, not the sort of thing that you would
be picking up these people uh if you
were looking at uh clinical data.
Am I doing okay for time? Oh, I'll speed
up a little bit. This is on on on mental
health on the margin. So, another thing
to say is that we need studies that both
look at general distress, so GHQ and uh
short form and things like that. But
what we also need to be looking at
are other sorts of conditions, those
that are sometimes called SMI, so severe
mental illness. It's a problematic name
because actually uh
major depressive episode is a severe
illness.
But what the survey data enables us to
capture is those extraordinary
socioeconomic inequalities in context to
people with very particular conditions.
And being able to look across and the
patterns do vary by condition. So, what
this shows is the proportion of people
who
using a detailed examination
carried out in a clinical setting
living in the most deprived areas
compared with the least deprived areas.
And we see an extraordinary and very
strong pattern of association. Also, a
survey like this, which I think is far
braver than many, many in terms of
asking about all rich range of exposure
to adversities, we see that amongst
people who've ever been in prison
more than one in 10 tested positive for
a psychotic disorder in the past year,
which really tells us something about
the nature of need amongst the prison
population. And we also see that amongst
those with
who are currently claiming well,
currently. This was a report that was
done for DWP using data from 10 years
ago.
Claimants
on employment support allowance,
a very large proportion of those
had psychotic disorder, which is an
extremely impairing condition.
Eight in 10 people with a psychotic
disorder are in receipt of treatment
much more so than for any of the other
conditions that we looked at, but that
means that one in five of them weren't
in contact with mental health treatment.
And that's particularly medication or
therapy. And also we found that one in
three didn't report that they thought
they had psychosis. Now, there'll be
many reasons for that and partly that's
because it is quite possibly the most
stigmatized of conditions which could
fit reporting. But finally, I just
wanted to flag up some really important
much more nuanced work that Paul
Bebbington led with this survey program.
And what he really did was he used the
survey program to move the field beyond
genetic explanations to articulating a
social contribution to the onset of
psychosis. In particular, his work using
the data in the surveys on victimization
and child sexual abuse and the role that
that played as well.
So finally, around risk factors and
context and violence and abuse in
particular, which is an area that I've
been looking at. Just wanted to talk
through this paper which was done by
absolutely brilliant guy at King's
Fish Babsa. So, he's a psychiatrist and
and a researcher and and
that.
And what he did was he used the APMS
data
to show
to describe people who use violence. So,
often we look at victims of violence,
but actually the data also allows us to
talk about people who use violence.
And people who use violence against
others do have worse mental health.
When you adjust for their childhood
experiences of violence,
that explained so much of that
association. So, it really was about
showing the importance of early
intervention can reduce violence
potentially later. This is obviously a
cross-sectional study. But what I
thought was the most important thing and
really hopeful thing about his analysis
was that he looked, "Okay, they've got
poor mental health. Let's compare them
with other people with poor mental
health." And he found that
those people were no less likely People
who use violence are no less likely to
be using mental health services, which
means mental health services is this
amazingly non-punitive point of contact
with people who are using violence and
who may need help not to be using
violence. And I thought that was a very
powerful finding from the study. Now,
there've been loads of analysis. Shaun
Arum, Youth Thing,
lots of people have been doing
brilliant stuff with the data on on
violence and abuse.
And we've changed the questions in the
later survey on that. So, there'll be
there'll be more work. And if you're
interested in some of that, we're just
coming to the end of a five-year
glorious five-year consortium grant from
UKRI. There's a link there if you're
interested.
And it's a program of work where we've
been pulling together data from police
and crime surveys and the homicide
reviews,
health care and health surveys, data
from specialist sexual domestic and
violence services, and other sources in
order to really explore and understand
both the measurement and the
interventions around violence and abuse.
The data can be used if you're
interested in the whole range of
different types of conditions and change
in the prevalence of different types of
conditions, and can be used to explore
demographics,
age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and
other other comparisons as well as a
range of different adversities. So,
there's been some lovely papers
focusing, for example,
Natalie Chollerton on homeless people
or
on those who've been in prison or
a range of of others. And sorry if I've
not given you a shout-out, but there are
so many.
Um
If you're interested in working with the
data,
I would first go and have a look at the
report which
Sarah Morris was absolutely amazing at
bringing together Marion and others.
Um
And that's available on the
NHS England website. You can just go via
Google.
Um UK Data Service all all of the
surveys all of the surveys are available
there. So you can go right back to 1993.
The latest um
2024 data set is is just just coming in.
So um
that will be available soon.
And then finally I think I've got a just
a just wanted to say
It's not a given
that the survey series will go on. We
haven't been commissioned to do another
APMS yet.
I just do that the full bit. We haven't
been commissioned to do another APMS
yet.
Um it's been 10 years since the last
mental health of children and young
people survey. That's not happened.
Um
we have to use every opportunity that we
get into that lift with Andy.
Don't worry about Kier now, but I don't
know where's who's taking over from
where's there's a new one. Um whoever we
need to and and this is where it comes
back to that reach because we span
we span government, we span
market research, social research,
academia, we span think tanks and a
whole range of different places. Let's
make that case for maintaining the
infrastructure. We need UK Data Service
and yeah. And do get in touch if you've
got any questions if you're working with
the data.
Um also with Sarah or Marie or
others we're all really keen to support
people to
work with the data.