Harvesting insights from rapporteurs and participants

Good. So, we are in the very last segment of uh of uh today's uh uh intricated and intersecting conversations. Um I'm very very happy to have uh with meters that will be sharing their thoughts and the brief was uh in a way quite simple. I asked them not to do summaries but instead to try to catch some elements that they felt uh resonated the most with their own personal experience, professional experience and where they could uh share some extra thoughts. Um and of course you are invited to comment, react, ask more questions. That's the point. Um in this um segment of the day, we try to fight frustration. You have to choose two sessions only. I know a couple of you cheated and you tried to participate in more than two and it's okay, but you missed out a lot. So with this uh final uh session we'll try to work on this frustration and at least I'm working on my frustration because I couldn't you know hear everything. So maybe what I will start to do is to introduce our two raort first Antonia. Antonia is working for the Kuwanova Foundation in Zab Croatia. uh she's been uh working for the Kutanova Foundation for many years now and uh she's working on uh European cooperation project including a test plus and institute but as part of the of the work of a senior adviser at the department for research and development she's published or edited or conducted a million and a half studies publication and reports so she has this analytical brain that we love or I love at least in the in the culture field and we've known each other many many years ago when she was an arts critic very active in in uh reviewing contemporary performance contemporary circus dance theater and part of many movements uh to support the independency including working for Cooperativa our partner uh for this event. So uh we will hear from Antonia and then we have with us Lorena. Lorena is coming from Romania and she was uh contributing to a very important and interesting initiative that the cultural center of Kluj was uh promoting and putting together or leading and focusing on care and well-being. And I understand this is also something that you are really fond of and you want to continue to work on care and sustainability in the arts and culture field and you've [laughter] been contributing to this project uh and coordinating this initiative. So we will also hear from you and I'm very happy about this. So look I'm going to ask maybe uh Lorena to start to share her insights and then I will give you the floor. Okay, go ahead. >> Thank you very the the opportunity to be here and I'm very happy to share the moment with Antonia because I feel that the conversation we had in the morning was very nurturing for the conversation that we ended the day with. uh particularly because we began with the question of fair fairness and and how can we build uh fair approaches uh amongst ourselves when we think about coexisting in the sector but I'm sure that she will bring many many valuable insights into into that and then the the conversation for me or my my mental narrative jumped into the funding topic which which is probably a very burning topic for the sector funding from the perspective from the perspective of our own biases and and blind spots. Um it was a generous conversation to be honest and at the end of it I feel very I feel like my my brain is pulsating. Uh I will try to to come up with ideas that stay with me after after the end of the conversation. Uh I would like to say that the session was basically split or focusing on two very different approaches to fund or grant giving grant making. Uh one of it uh comes from the Moskin Foundation and it's about trust building when offering grants to organizations and contributing to their sustenance and sustainability. And then the other one was centered around Acme's approach to randomized selection processes and what does that mean and what questions that does that arises when you talk about selecting artists and then how does that how would that type of scenario impact ourselves if we knew that we are exposed to randomized selection ourselves in what we do. So two very very different things but as I was talking uh today and around the table after the session ended I was thinking that both of them somehow talk about trust uh trust that the process that you are supporting will lead to nurturing results and when I think about trust I have to think about another very valuable T word valuable but I think biased also and uh weird to in today's world which is trauma uh because I was thinking about the ease that we pronounce trust with when we pronounce it in a privileged context and the difficulty that we um find in relating to trust when we talk about underprivileged context. And I believe that right now or today or in the space there is this type of contrast uh in between spaces and and and people and organizations and contexts that have access to and then uh spaces and people and professionals and contexts that don't have access to. And then how do we build trust in spaces that don't have access to you can fill in the blanks you know how do we build trust in context that don't have access to trust uh and then I wondered about how does fear define the way we relate to the idea of trust and how does fear define the way we relate to one another. I believe that it's sadly uh s hyper realistic or beyond realistic actually to think about trust in the cultural sector. uh and that saddened me a lot because um I find that we think about the finance financing entity or the funding entity as a an authority figure and at least in the Balkans there is some parental heritage that we bring with us that whenever we hear authority figure we think about restrictions, we think about limitations, we think about performance, we think about playing a part that would satisfy so that the outcome would be considered relevant so that it could exist a bit more and then uh that that's also something that maybe gradually can change but I think the only way or the main way for it to change is exactly collaboration and exactly uh being more aware that we coexist with privileged context and those privileged context to more aware that they ex coexist with underprivileged contexts. I hope it makes sense. I I tend to sound scattered, but um talking about this awareness, I go back to uh the Moleskin Foundation and one of the first biases that that was mentioned in the conversation which mean which was the positionality factor. knowing where you stand, who are you, why are you here, what do you do, and how do your actions um trigger a reaction around you? Right? And probably I would invite all of you to to think about your position. Who are you representing in this room today? I am indirectly representing Push Cultural Center. Yes. and and I've been honored or privileged to have access to their processes and to their faith that culture can have an impact in our lives as a as people and and in our coexistence within the sector. And then I think I am also underprivileged because I come from a country that is struggling to develop and struggling to fight fascism and farright opinions that influence the way culture can be instrumentalized. And then I believe that the same trends are very much contaminating much of Europe today. So that's somehow like losing a privilege that we took for granted in a sense. Uh so really many many thoughts arise from from the conversation and I'm very thankful to to the contributors of of the last session because I believe that really trust is a key word and positionality is a key word and positionality and trust bring with it self-awareness. On one side, self-awareness about what your power is to create change and then self-awareness about what your limitations are and maybe being gentle to your limitations because they might be there to create something to create something in how you find loopholes, but also to create something in how you respond. And maybe how you respond can it can be a carebased practice instead of a rebellionbased practice. But maybe sometimes rebellion is a carebased practice. So I really think that the conversation brought a lot of subjective possibilities that are part of the same reality. And I would end by inviting all of you to think about that really what is your context? Who do you represent today and then every day? uh and then how does the contrast between expectation and structural reality exists where you are and how do you address it where you are um then about money I think we can talk a lot I think it's being talked a lot about so that's it from me >> thank you very much for this it's a very interesting and it was not yet pronounced very clearly is the word fear Yeah. What do we fear also collectively? And it's interesting because through all the conversation that we had, we heard a lot about populistic movements or right-wing movements. We heard about budget cuts. We heard about artistic freedom in the morning etc. But we never pronounce the word fear that we agitate our brains and our emotions. So thank you for this. I'm going to ask all the people that was that were not in the in the room in this session on on funding uh biases and gaps to think about a comment or a question like a burning comment and question on funding. Okay, Antonia. Well uh I will move move to the theme of fairness that was discussed in the long table uh this morning building fairness uh capacities. Um there were a lot of things that we were meandering around uh in the discussion such as data measurements and impact where it was outlined that it's important to move from quantitative KPIs and uh uh other uh information that are more concrete but do not necessarily adequately respond to the cultural context you operate in with intangible values. And um mentioning KPIs, we can also uh go with direction of wording and uh appropriation of corporate lingo uh in cultural sector which is kind of impacting it also and redirecting it and possibly uh not necessarily the best field uh in which cultural capacities can be uh expressed. uh mentioning language also. We were discussing how we talk about fairness as we understand it all in the same way but it actually means really different things in different context and um the word is translated from one language to another in a completely different way and is in certain context understood in different um dimension. For example, I was thinking about the practice that we led in Noa for year and a half. It was a participatory process for frame practices when we were dealing with working conditions. And if I would translate uh the term that we used uh from creation into English, it would be actually just not fair. And I think that this that there are many dimensions of the world uh from in this translation from one language to another and back. Uh some things are added some things are uh lost. uh one participant shared with us eight dimensions which I would like to enumerate that uh uh German commission uh proposed for the UNESCO and uh those are eight principle of this is five but eight uh uh eight principles uh of uh fairness and there is decent working conditions and fair remuneration access to diverse cultural expression and resources nondis discrimination and gender equality, local development, market access, digital equality and uh ethics, respect for the environment and uh public and consumer awareness. Uh then we were also discussing about uh relations within the power system and relinquishing power which was um I was glad to do uh to kind of uh heard certain continuation of this discussion in the last long table in the the afternoon uh program. that somehow uh at the very beginning uh Sabrina Camille which was uh the cedar for our session uh somehow wanted us to think about a much broader perspective that uh fairness practices are not uh in the selection process per se but that they are to be thought about much earlier and uh in very different uh positions from which they're starting like geographic or economic or educational or whatever disadvantages that uh where the roots of uh of thinking about fairness and how to achieve it uh start and in that sense I would like to maybe conclude with something that I'm I I can't say that I have it clearly in my mind but it was somehow Now there's certain sense um contradiction that we're when we're talking about funding schemes when we are talking about fairness we always talking about it from the perspective of competition competitiveness and uh somehow how to create the conditions which will become fair or will prepare the terrain for a fair game. But somehow uh competitiveness is uh codependent with fairness but also at the same time uh comprehends inability to ever achieve it. that somehow we'll never achieve this full fairness and that maybe other forms of uh exchange and other forms of uh creating, producing, exchanging. Uh maybe we should encourage ourselves to to fantasize whether will they happen or not. We will see. But it just kind of could be enriching. And with this I would like to conclude and invite people who uh participated in the session to correct or fill in uh my wrong interpretations. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. And also I would encourage the people who were not in this long table to actually share a burning uh comment or question. Um do I I saw Mari uh taking the mic so the mic is open and circulating. Uh so who has a burning comment on funding issues? I see one hand. Yeah, >> I have one question for Miss Antonia in this direction or uh relate a lot of Russian and hybrids mainly Serbian influence I would say to remain in the culture which is not uh and that's why the >> it's not connected to the topic we are talking about >> because the topic is fairness of the of the culture and I think those that are with this hybrid installments they they are always in the first place and not the one which are uh let's say western oriented with quality with uh integrity with all [clears throat] those western values uh and uh what do you recommend what can we do in this direction and for me suan I would like to to ask why why do you think during the the cold war there was a a lot of solidarity ity among the cultural workers in Eastern Europe and now there is not so much like or is it maybe because of the human nature which is uh very greedy and won't say everything for itself did the the artists change in negative >> that's a very long question for very little times thank you for this so I'm going to first ask Anton and then Lorena with the hab to try to answer a comment. >> I'm definitely no expert in illustration. Uh so I'm not able to answer that question but I I can maybe address it from the perspective of culture as being space of dialogue and conflict and staying in the discussion and that we should also somehow look at it how to extend it not exclude it. We already live in highly polarized societies and adding additional ones is not necessarily constructive for resolution of uh conflicts and misunderstanding and then we're also confronted with numerous changes and I would say that mobility is one of the aspects which are helping us open towards other cultures and other frameworks and uh growing our sensitivity activities and inclusive. Thank you. >> Do you have a comment though? >> I can try. I don't think that the level of solidarity uh changed. Uh I don't think that artists are in less solidarity with other artists. I do believe that there's an active practice of solidarity. I I think that the vocabulary around how we understand solidarity changed or is changing because vocabulary is something that's very much allowed and I think the nuances of how we understand solidarity can be different. Uh but I believe that the need to contribute and the need to be part of the sector is very much burning and very much present in how we understand our work. Um so yeah I I don't I don't see that the level decrease. Also I feel that the cultural sector at the global level works as islands. So maybe we are not always so much aware of what the other island is struggling with until we find ourselves in this type of context when we can talk together and we realize that we're dealing with the same problems or with very similar uh uh explorations or wonderings. And so we realize that we're very much alike which reinforces the need to be solidary with other people with the otherness and reinforces our curiosity towards otherness. And I believe that the cultural sector is very much about about exploring that and and looking around that. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Do we have another burning comment or question around these two areas? No. So, I'm going to thank Antonio and Lorena for their contribution. Thank you so much. I'm gonna [applause] and I'm going to welcome the next two oops and to come with me on stage and I'm going to present them while they are arriving. So Zetlana um Idal Nak is a manager of artistic and research project at the Basau Observatory of Culture where she works a lot on artistic research but also a lot of on migration experiences and she worked on many projects uh uh uh across the years that are really working towards the transnational collaboration and this uh legal procarity. We're gonna we're gonna put it this way. Um Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna try no. You are the cultural manager and he of artistic residences department at the Uzadovski Castle [clears throat] Center for Contemporary Art. So you are particularly in charge of the artist in residence programs there and you've done a lot of work um to uh I mean of course to support artists and offer them time and space to uh continue their artistic practice and in particular to artists that were at risk or forcibly displaced and offering them this breathing that we were talking during the day this moment where they can reconnect with their practice but also reconnect with their peers. So you you both be also very active listeners and observers of two uh sessions that took place today. So I don't know who wants to start. Maybe we start with you because you were in the attending the first uh panel this morning on artistic autonomy. >> Yeah. Sorry for my voice. I'll try. Artistic autonomy and the Balkans was the topic of the panel I was reporter for. It was uh moderated by Matea and it had two fantastic participants Sara and Harris. Sara is the person who has started working before I was born even. She is the one who did research, surveys, reports in the very difficult conditions all over the world in Cambodia in the countries with the conflicts and she really a master of creating and helping writing the laws. Harris is a man institution. He was called like that man institution. It's a man artist who has really vast knowledge of history of u politics of all the theories possible philosophical historical whatever movement he knows everything and he's the one who can quote quote directly Lincoln uh Shakespeare whoever comes to your mind he repeats this quotation ations and that discussion was a fantastic mosaic of all that um of all that points. It didn't tell us much about the Balkans. Uh we know that um from the Balkans, yeah, that there was a passage of Harris of the war. What is the war? Uh he said that for some group of people could be attractives. Yeah. with the weapons, with the power and so on. But in fact, this is worst thing that could happen because he lived through that and he knows that experience on his own. And um well, you ask me uh what refers uh to me. I was born in Brass, but not one that in France, but in Barus. And uh in 2021 I had to move to Poland, Warso. And before I was an actress in independent theater and now I work as a manager. So I can attach to both of these speakers on um on some level. Yeah. And to address um okay coming back to discussion. Uh it happened that Sara and Harris they came to uh to Scopia. They flew on the same flight and they were in a taxi and in the taxi started the discussion and we were the people uh who were listening like continuation of that discussion dreaming of being in that taxi with them because they in that taxi that conversation we felt it was really tense hard and there were real emotions and uh but here they uh try to uh keep keep the quote. Well, uh, what what uh uh resonates me the most? This thing the Sarah told us about new forms of oppression because she said that recently she was asked to write a report by some of Europe European Union institution about the position what is going on with the artists how they are addressed in their countries and she said It's it's it doesn't change so much from the past because uh people for their artistic activities they got to the prison that as person that I know very well and um and then um she said that now appears different hidden forms of oppression towards artists even in the countries that are used to be regarded as democracy countries and she gave some examples of Rivian Poland, Belgium, Norway, UK. Um then Harris continued the talk and reminded us that artistic freedom as a notion as idea appeared in 20th century only. And uh of course he colored his pictures many of the examples of artists. Yeah. The artists who were imprisoned for their books what they said and he proved his title my institution. Uh the thing that resonates me uh as a person from Belarus is to resign victim psychology and for that was Harris's recommendation to civil society actors to to switch that from uh victim uh from victim uh psychology to fighters psychology that's that's what I uh underline also we talked about the we talked about importance to keep the artistic to write the free freedom of artistic expression to fix that in law not only on the European level but in the law of each uh member countries. Uh this that's what Asar was talking about and and I would like to share with you my uh own experience. I will read you a little piece of my literature. One minute. One. Okay. Two. 27th of April 2026. This is my birthday. I'm 37. I received the decision of Polish citizenship on the 29th of October 2025. I fly to Scopia from Warso Chopin airport. It's my first time since 2023 when I travel out of the European Union. It's my first time when I leave European Union as a Polish citizen. I take the line for the automatic border control. I hear teenagers behind me discussing long waiting. Long 10 minutes. Are you serious guys? In front of me in the queue a boy. He speaks Russian through his airports keeping in his hands Ukrainian passport. This passport has a biometrical sign. When turn comes to him, the gate doesn't open. His document is not seen. Airport assistant says, "It's not your queue. It's only for EU citizens." The boy as unsatisfied breathe out and disappointly goes to another line. Noneu citizens. Suddenly, it's my turn. My turn. Oh my god, I'm so excited. Will my ID card work? What if they accept only passports? But I registered my boarding pass for the ID card just in case I have a passport. I put my plastic ID on the glass of scanner. The gates opens immediately. I step in. I put my feet on the yellow sides of on shoes of the floor. The yellow sides are too big for my size 37. I lift up my cheek up my head. Watch on the screen in front of me. Look at the machine's camera. put my pointing finger on the glass of scanner and voila, the gate is open immediately. Young blonde officer just throw a look on me and nothing. I can go really. I've just crossed the border. It took me only 30 seconds. I start crying. Unbelievable. No cues, no questions. Where are all these questions? What is the purpose of your visit? Do you have the invitation? What do you come uh when do you come back? Do you have cigarettes? Do you have alcohol? How much money do you have with you? Do you have insurance? No more questions. I start crying. Tears of relief and solidarity. I cry of my endless hours and lost days in standing in the border control of non-equal citizens. I spent years on the border control breast harass the border between Poland and Belarus. I was waiting alone with friends with theater group without I was waiting in the train in a car on a bike in a bus in a mini bus. I had different purposes to travel to perform to participate to do shopping even sometimes to smuggle goods. And now long hours turn into privilege 30 seconds. No more cues, no more questions. Just be on the move. That's mobility justice. [applause] I leave the mic to you to prepare your comment or questions. Uh and I'm going to pass the word to the cat uh and try to have a Yeah. >> So I was taking part in a long table discussion safe heavens artist residents in turbulent times. uh and the session was moderated by by Mike Müer who is uh representing Martin Institute and uh the short presentation uh was contributed by Terasar. Uh we started with uh a very strong uh shared like we started with a very strong uh story uh that uh made me feel uh connected to the moment uh when uh we as residency runners or many of us as residency providers felt uh the responsibility for our colleagues from Ukraine uh who were forced to flee out uh from their countries uh when Russian aggression started. Uh BA asked a very uh important question because actually this was the moment when uh we managed to create networks uh secure funding and mobilize ourselves within almost two weeks to host uh a massive number of artists. uh sometimes uh trying to make the uh circumstances of the in my case public institution uh adjusted to this unusual situation and the question was like how can we actually repeat it because uh Ukraine it's uh our neighbor we are as Polish uh people as Polish citizens We are feeling very comfortable within the Ukrainian presence and we were able to uh mobilize probably because uh we feel that they are part of our society also for many years but this is not the only nation like uh there were some numbers that uh 40 up to 50% uh of the world is actually in war or in a crisis ecological crisis political crisis. Uh so the number of uh artists uh art practitioners, creators, researchers uh who are like working are present in the art field are affected uh by the force of like fleeing away or insecurity instability. We've been also of course like touching uh those uh few uh few obstacles few uh that that that everyone of us it's like facing financial crisis uh lack of funding impact of political decisions on our centers visa issues traveling racism uh and also the question what after the residency uh But in fact uh those are those are like very anonymous uh you know stance but in fact uh what we are facing within the residences are people with whom we uh become friends uh whom we started to care for uh who are important for us. So uh this makes the things much more complicated and complex I think. Uh we've been uh luckily very pos well we will be we've been sharing uh within this platform that was created during the panel uh some positive examples of how to work and uh all of the institutions were coming from very different uh areas. Uh so uh we have examples of the residencies that are basically working with arts and they started us to support uh artistic development. Uh there were voices from those who specialized in the area of artistic risk. Uh there are also organizations that provide funding and create an opportunities for uh for mobility towards or for for mobility for those who are affected by the uh by different crisises but uh we understood that uh it there's a necessity uh to learn on those many levels. So each of us uh shall develop. There is also a necessity of uh building up strong structures and uh sometimes those are structures of friendship as in my case. Uh I will just uh refer to this um moment when we decided to create emergency residencies. immediately between institutions that never collaborated uh in Poland, we started to think about like how to create a program that would work and facilitate as many artists as possible. Uh suddenly also also beyond the uh political uh like opinions and fractions that was surprising for me uh at that time. who managed to get the funding from the from the ministry that was redistributed among different organizations. So um I feel that those moments are crucial to really trying to build alliances of people and shout the competences that we all have. We've been also talking about uh resources that are very diverse. Uh sometimes it's financial, sometimes it's just human. uh sometimes uh it's knowledge uh that somebody has and can share with the others. Uh so I think this is very um very crucial when we are trying to create structures for uh for wider uh group of people and this what uh I'm like in ongoing reflection also on the residencies itself. So how the sectors changes like how the sectors tries to be uh tries to adjust uh to the circumstances that we are facing. Uh and um there was a moment uh when I understood that we also have to uh care for ourselves. Uh without protecting uh residency teams uh we cannot move further. uh so uh I understand that it is happening uh parallel in many organizations uh we've been also sharing those experiences that residency teams start to uh use coaching facilitating psychological uh support in order to be able to uh share uh resources and uh help to another groups of people who are in a eat. So uh this is like very very important and the other thing is that uh we are also observing that there are many uh bottom up initiatives popping up that want to share this limited resources that they have for example in Ukraine uh with the artists who need it more and uh I feel that this protection can distributed on many levels. So uh you know we do have capacity and we can share it further. Uh what uh was also uh underlined and like stayed with me is this flexibility. Uh this is like something that we are in a needs nowadays. uh we need to adjust to change uh to uh try to invent uh how can we actually respond to artist needs whatever the residency can be the residency without traveling. Maybe we can uh distribute the funding to those who cannot leave their countries but they still can in a virtual way uh take part in the program. uh and something that uh is like very very important is to create long-lasting relations because then we know the context better. We can use the support in a different way. Uh yes. So those are the the most I think uh important thoughts that uh came up from this session. >> Wonderful. Thank you so much to interwe takeaways and your personal experience also and both of you have done this exercise of uh also bringing your own uh lived experience to to the the main takeaways of the conversation. Do I see the comments and questions? >> Really? Yes, I see one here. Um I don't know if uh yeah >> thank you so much but I just hear >> uh hi thank you so much for your I have I think a very objective question I think it's forana um I believe you because I was not in your session so I'm quite curious after you know after what you said as to what happened there um I I believe you mentioned or I understood that you mentioned that uh there were some hidden forms of oppression that exist within uh several countries like Slovenia, Belgium and the UK and that there were some examples shared about this. Right. So my question is like can you may maybe share some of those examples please. Well, there were no some concrete examples, but there was um cases that Sara discovered that politic politicians somehow by funding influence cultural institutions. Yeah, that's that and that was observed in that uh in that things that uh artist took part in political campaign and they after that they regretted they know they their sport their situation and so on so forth. There were no there were just names of the countries not concrete cases but it it's a form of influence of oppression that is not so evident. >> Thank you. Are we good? Yes. Maybe we can thank both and [applause] I will welcome the the two last but not least we have Florent coming on stage and we have on stage. So introducing Florence uh Memet who is um a theater director, film director and um he uh is co-founded and directing the um Oda theater and uh also Hapu the international festival dedicated to artistic creation in public space and you are also the president of the cultural forum a network of organization uh session. >> Yes. Yes, >> we've been navigating through visa barriers. >> Yes. >> So, our navigator was Sebastian Hoffman. She's a moderator. This coming from the ZA center of ITI coordinating the tourist uh the touring artist hub. Yes. Uh so yeah we started actually I think there was some kind of navigation to try and find out where we are and uh I'm with a seat speaker Mar was on the move uh first of all we concluded that it's a very complex topic which we all agree uh and then with Marie uh giving us also some figures from research and concluding in general that as we are speaking in April now we have this new digital tool that has been implemented in the borders of the Shenhen area which uh is preceding the the new tool to come which is that yes which will be more more challenging because it's kind of an entry authorization that you have to to do previously digitally. So this where we are uh is not looking very bright also in the future in terms of these barriers that uh already are creating quite some problems and cues in terms of uh travels in general but this includes also artistic mobility and other kinds of mobilities and then we try to um through uh through Mari to to see [clears throat] this trends or shifts let's call that uh we're coming also with figures. So maybe am I allowed to talk in figures? So based on some statistics there was uh there were like about 70% cases solved in in this is an example in France that 70% of the cases [clears throat] were solved in 2022 versus only 38.2% 2% of sold cases in 2025 which tells us of quite some deterioration actually uh and this is was addressed more due to the fact of France cutting diplomatic relation with certain African countries which we believe that have contributed largely to this uh change which is quite uh sh this ship that was quite um [cough and clears throat] fast in in terms of the of the Uh then some other uh survey tells us that uh visa delays and the rejections in research with mainly African uh applicants. One of every five one out of five uh uh people have stated that uh the process of application was extremely stressful and yeah affected a lot. The next issue that we also tried to tackle which is the mental mental health uh which starting from the irony that the the focus for example in in Europe is wellbeing and mental uh welfare mental well-being and uh mental health. It was uh ironic to to find out that there's a a big footprint of this uh mental health in among the the visa barriers of the of the artist and artistic workers actually uh caused by this very political establishment that has a focus on developmental wellbe. Yeah. Uh so uh what other shifts we concluded is that there is a growing tendency uh that a lot of artists and artistic practitioners are basing their experience on the peer-to-peer exchange by just asking other people on how they did it and more strangely asking Chad GBT uh which very often results in a very uh wrong answers uh which then creates even an additional barrier on going towards uh more barriers. Uh yeah, another barrier was a lack of trust of organizations uh that are supported by the state. So very often the cultural work the the cultural practitioners don't approach the the state institutions as a result of the uh of the lack of trust. Um and then we I think we slowly started to navigate on uh how how to overcome this what what are the directions that we can come and uh one of the examples was given that an NGO in Berlin was tracking Facebook groups in Poland where they do this peer-to-peer exchange but they infiltrated legal advisors to correct the wrong answers in this in these chats in um in the Facebook [cough] group which [clears throat] is a brilliant idea. I think it's to be considered. Um yeah. Uh what else? We we had a lot of uh but there was quite some focus done into the British way of thinking which in in Britain they do have this uh what is called a list of uh let me find my notes. a list of festivals that are uh a permit free festival list which you get in this list and then somehow uh this facilitates the the movement of the artist uh in this list but then it it comes also with the challenges who goes in the list how challenging is to be in the list and all that that goes with that. uh then there was a mentioning of also c culture atachi networks in UK which I think exist also in some other countries. I know also in other bulan countries there are existing [clears throat] s networks of the cultural institutes which are good forms to interact and by taking this kind of examples we came to a to a very logical conclusion that one of the most valuable solutions is the loopholes. So there were even um suggestions to to train how to find loopholes. I think there was if I can quote There was a saying that our job description is to find loopholes on how to how to find ways on on creating [clears throat] um facilitation and and make this these barriers easy. Since we are in the Balkans, we can entitle this as I know the guy who knows the guy. This is how it how it goes. So it was a lot of uh bringing examples that maybe uh I cannot go through all of them but like this finding uh loopholes it was mentioned also in the in this very harsh environment now that existing states but in one of the meetings that uh um uh an official from state department was there and just uh as usually from the said that you can call me if you have any problems but it was tested the general problem was solved but it worked. So uh there were solutions made in terms of facilitation for for things when they uh when they go wrong then uh so uh am I too long? No, we need to wrap. [laughter] >> So we we said that resistance is about finding ad hoc ways which is much more successful than changing the system. So it was this dilemma I think and we are not concluding with this but is this dilemma is do we focus on changing the system really or do we just find more solidarity uh networks solidarity ways of working into uh finding ad hoc ways on dealing which can be more efficient than changing the system because the systems are changing as we are talking especially in this new crazy Uh so uh then it was yeah a little bit going back to the the mental health and this I I'll call it myself the rejection syndrome but a lot of artists and I had personal cases where we had invitations from festivals and certain actors said I don't want to write him but just don't go not apply not do it at all from the past quite traumatic experience very often. Uh so uh this this way of dealing with uh mental health also of this of this period also from the past and nowadays was again seen in how how we can uh how we can support this how we can overcome this and how we can find ways of of maintaining this mental health like to support. Uh yeah and uh the most then we talked a little bit with the funds. We t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t t tackled the the visa versus funds. But then we we come with a lot of obstacles because it's not much that you can do systematically because it really depends on what kind of visas and what type of visas and sometimes um it's a problem because for example Shenhen visa uh cannot be turned into a permit. So if you go into shares and so you can make uh initial problems with the initial steps and that uh that creates problems and I hope I have covered them but we were a lot to mention that we were very lucky to have 10 mobility points in our group that's why I I had to go really quick. So we were lucky to be so resourceful in our group from all of you. So, please take the floor. >> You heard the guy take the floor. >> Okay. Uh, before everybody takes the floor, you need to talk. >> Uh, okay. But [laughter] try to run through just to start with comment that coming from Cypus, which is an island divided has been bad for, you know, 50 years plus and not being able to travel in your own island for 30 years and even now it's very regulated. Mobility is [clears throat] very strong. So you mentioned creative Europe. Yes. Because it's our let's say permit to go to everywhere else with Europe. At the same time, of course, um today when we were talking about invisibility and in artists, uh well, you realize that of course invisibility is talking about newly newly arrived artists um in the EU or diaspora artists that are living for a long time or diversity cases of all kinds. We we we still felt that uh a lot of the borders still remain in culture and systems for visibility. We're all at the edge of it. So we recognize that uh our current mechanisms and decision making doesn't care or support enough for our sector. Um we are all very still euroentric and even more insular these days um in search of identity and whatever that means for all of us and with the diversity that we have. Um [clears throat] and while the sector needs more international outlook uh and exchanges certainly more exchanges with the Sana region BL in the African uh continent even the audience has a right for more international cultural manifestations. It's it's a right. So this is a a fact that we are recognizing and when we talk about um democratic participation basically it is the willingness to relinquish power of decision and gate people who sends invitations to whom and and who responds. And in fact we it was recognized and we saw in our discussion that even in our most um ambitious efforts uh of engaging artists uh from the outside of the we still replicate the European approach which is these days based on uh the market model competitiveness effectiveness time and that also leaves u many sites invisible and many artists is on his way. Yeah. So, um what did we suggest? Talked about possible solutions. We pointed out the need to advocate for more co-design and co-deision on the mobility plans um with our funders. They don't just start on their own and build in order to build sustainable careers of the artist community. But it needs um it needs a long time to to build it up and therefore it's just one off thing. Let's invite someone and send him back. It needs a more concerted effort in continuity of time to build this. Um and at the end we had some good examples um like for example the Arasmos program of exchange of students how it could be more meaningful um and fair and equitable by northern European countries you know look down upon southern European countries and that's something that we know or recognize um the barriers of visibility in uh such like translation or interpretation of what uh to be to be presented or uh the hidden cost of mobility like Cypress is an island that by the time you travel to all kinds of places quite different than traveling and in Cyprus and there are hidden costs extra to visas extra to that need to be taken into account and usually um plans don't provide for that and there it's our responsibility um you know to make sure that we include them in fact this um issue of training train ourselves comes out very possibly and strong. We have to train ourselves on how to ask and how to see how we can manage it. Not necessarily find the loopholes but find and educate how we can make them more inclusive, more flexible and fitted to the needs of actual artists. >> [clears throat] >> Um so yes concluding um we have to recognize who the gatekeepers are and how we can ourselves be a little bit more of a gate keep a balance between them and us um see how much we can take on through training perhaps and ourselves and and coalesing with each other how we can take responsibility for our um artists I guess ourselves and how we exchange change to build more trust and the last one uh we keep asking ourselves in our programs and in our plans what is missing what can we do better because really everyone's going to do I don't think anyone else is going to ask for us um so yes that's it thank you so much also for this uh contribution and this uh summary and interwin with personal experiences can I see a hands rising with burning issues. Yes, Lena. Yes. Also, so we can go with uh Lena first. >> Um it's a very quick contribution to the visa session that I would have loved to attend but it wasn't possible. Um so actually it's more about their residency permits. They're Algerian and based in France. Uh and it's about their residency permits which is a longstay visa basically in France. One of them is a researcher and the other one is an artist. Um, and both of them I mean not in a concerted ma manner. They don't know each other. They both made posts on social media when they didn't get answers. So the researcher was on LinkedIn uh who got like this big award for her thesis and it she included this in her post saying talking about how much academic achievements she had made in France and how she finds herself with her partner, their child, her thesis, her awards not being in a legal situation in the country she provided all of this for. uh and the artist made a post on Instagram who's also a well-known artist who toured in many places in Europe and actually the both both of those posts went viral. So the institutions actually replied with apology letters. So maybe this uh maybe social media I mean with all of its problematic aspects that that is a topic for maybe another framework but um there's this new avenue I think of negotiation when it comes to visas that's maybe opening up. Um then again I don't want to endorse the current system of visas. Uh but I mean I definitely agree with the conclusion you had on your session. We should transform the system, but it's maybe more effective for now to also act on loopholes. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Hi, it's me again. Um, I didn't introduce myself before, but my name is Hut. Uh, and I'm well I'm here as a representative of Glo Gloarts Point from Finland. Uh, and we are an advocacy um, organization that works uh, with international artists and cultural workers um, in Finland. Um and the reason why I'm giving this context is because well first of all thank you also for the reporters here present uh on your summaries um I think they were quite quite good uh and the reason why I wanted the mic again uh is because I feel like today I've been hearing a lot about um well this this topic um of like how can we educate ourselves and it's something also I think we discussed in safe havens um and uh Vincent from city was that correct >> uh I think like he gave really good practical examples on on how his institution or his organization uh has been allocating different funds um uh for Well, different things you're doing. Um, like for example, I think you mentioned that you have some fund uh where a cultural worker is helping the artists with the bureaucratic uh stuff and um also I believe you mentioned that you also submitted yourselves to training on mental health and how to deal with artists better and whatnot. [clears throat] So one thing I wanted to also add to this discussion um is that for example I feel like most of us here all belong to the cultural sector and art sector >> right so there's no one here from for example psychology or sociology probably I don't know maybe there is but my point with that uh is that for example this is something we are trying now to change at cloart point so I'm a board member and I'm here representing in that quality and we are now like trying to bring people in the board and into the discussion from different fields of expertise. Um, and this is something I feel like this intersectionality with other disciplines. I feel like it's something that we could all benefit from. And I I'm also curious to hear like how in your organizations and institutions this intersectionality is happening if at all uh or not. But yeah, I just wanted to add that which I think it's a a good thing maybe to think about like if we can bring in these agents from other disciplines or not. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Yes, aliu in a way uh which is a word we we used to use in my early days in in this field trying to to mainstream all the issues of arts and culture in other areas but also the notion of allyship and and partnering with other fields to create some form of um transformative action or awareness raising at least you know if not training of custom uh you offices. Um I don't know if you want to comment on this uh proposal yourself or not >> just to agree really but in the sense that it seems that a lot of these funding programs that we have to adhere to um they need a bit more flexibility in the design and that is why I think when we say our design is so that they will accept us but however we have to we have to find ways to modify them and change them in the ways that make more flexible and suited for us. Otherwise, we have to play the other game of finding loopholes and finding terminology to fit the funders but not necessarily ourselves. So, yes. >> Okay. And EA, you want to add something? >> Hi, thanks for this comment. Uh I I wanted to ask like one of your recent experiences. uh being like art institution, you know, you can be very flexible in terms of like what you name actually a project or art uh art project. And uh recently we organized um meeting a workshop that was addressed uh to different organizations in Poland that had this experience of like sharing resources, hosting or working with artists uh with the experience of being displaced. And we uh invited a traumatologist and an expert uh who actually could present us the other side uh you know. of the things that we are not uh aware of or cannot handle with. So I think this connects those two areas. On one hand that's you know under the umbrella of creating an art project or art activity we can still uh like sneak inside the system uh additional knowledge that it's like needed to be able to adjust to the situation because we are starting continuously because we feel it's important we want but then we end up in a situation that we feel that we are not competent to do certain things and and then in a flexible way we are trying to respond to that to sustain >> that's all and it's it's definitely true because we what we did is we we just work with a social worker from Frazin and we decided to involve this guy in the team and definitely what we are doing we are just we have this flexibility and what we did we have now a social worker with it who is doing an everyday work on a long-term ba basis relation for people who are artists and who need specific support for that on a professional and on a even a personal personal experience because you are not it's not the same social position to be an artist than to be another type of worker when you are when you need to relocate yourself. So that's very it's really this notion of flexibility and I think we are the capacity doing this to make in a way uh change move some social policy or even some activities of social worker and for this for this guy and for Franazi it is I we spoke and we had some pill at one of six months for and it's a very interesting experience for them too as social worker because it's a way to in French we say it's a pote it's it's a new way to see thing and to try to find the best way to help people on a long-term basis on something more situated because it's a very very situated program and it's a kind of everyday relation so that's very this notion of flexibility and how we can as au institution or art institution or residency we can even make this institution and the social policy move forward and maybe be more flexible. >> Thank you. And if you want to continue. Uh I wanted to share the example from uh our foundation because we last year we piloted uh support program for uh for that we designed the program with psychologists and people who are from the field of psychology and mental health are actually necessary partners in the project. For what us it was important that the programs are not um healing ones. So that somehow we have another miden who are actually going to produce much more damage than uh positive impact. but rather using culture and arts as a kind of um exploration area to resocializing and creating dialogue and um discovering and uncovering uh creating capacities of uh individuals and somehow supporting system to to towards healing or whatever. However we want to uh frame this but I actually wanted to say something else next to this and that is let's talk about money there's so much money in other areas and then always culture takes over the social work how do we create equal investment from other areas if we want to use culture to remedy so many different aspects of inequalities Thank you. >> There's a question in the end. Um it's very interesting that we are um using a lot the word of care and well-being today and these these these are words that were in many many conversation of the day many long tables and panels. Um so it feels also very relevant to um to have an emphasis in many of our programs and in our literature or reports policy recommendation around these areas. And of course uh I can see also the issue an issue [clears throat] very close to our hearts that all the move of forcibly displaced artist and culture workers uh artist in design and artist at risk are also very present in many of the conversation that uh you had today which is also a good reminder that uh we need connectively to work on this. Um >> yes I have a question for you Johan. Uh some of the for some of the participants you said that they are expose was too long and for some you don't. isn't that sort of repression also or even discrimination and if you think it's not tell us why and as an example I would like to to say that I think that German government had a good program for uh better public health because the uh after the beginning of the war in Ukraine the standard failed and now they have cafes and buffets where uh those with which are socially endangered, they can go there and socialize and drink and uh have snakes for nothing. And uh it was a very successful uh project and I think this example should be example for the rest of uh European Union countries and for those which uh have ambition to to become a part of a European family. Thank you. pleas your answer. >> Yes. Um I'm very happy to say that um this example that you quote um is an example of the cohort enormous enormous cohort of examples of uh local initiatives that are aligned in their goals and social goals that we discovered or you know could investigate. in one of a very recent uh one year and a half research action project that we did around the situation of artists at risk or forcibly displaced. And this study took place I mean in in the European continent but also in the UK um uh and in America [laughter] with our goal was to investigate or put in the spotlight many initiatives that are working in this area of how do you support through a variety of mechanism uh communities that have been put in a very precarious and vulnerable uh situation. ation and to encompass realities that goes beyond um artistic freedom or censorship cases but embrace the reality of the crisis that we hear in the news every minute wars conflicts forced displacement within one country and of course outside of of these countries. So together with many researchers, 19 of them, we published 18 [cough] policy reports including a lot of case studies that would u uh study these type of examples that we could see in many of the context. And for us it is uh both giving I would say a lot of hopes in terms of the capacity of the sector to be flexible to adjust and adapt to all the needs that can emerge and the crisis and at the same time it's also a reminder that we don't have the capacity as a cultural sector to be able to react because we don't have the means. And if these means can exist, they exist on a project based basis. So of course uh when Russia uh invaded Ukraine full full scale a lot of countries reacted and a lot of operators from the culture field reacted but not only the culture field in many fields. People joined forces and tried to support the way they could. But at the same time all these efforts the funding attached to these programs are almost disappeared now. the reality is this one. So all the initiatives that many operators are leading uh even today or the examples that we hear from many different context in this region and many others are also threatened by um our you know the the very low capacities we have and I'd like to react on one word that I was saying maybe is the feeling of being incompetent. I think there is a moment in our trajectory and career and probably all of us today we could list hundreds of people that are incompetent and still have power funding and act. So maybe we should drop this feeling of being incompetent or not feeling legitimate to act. And uh and this is my take of the day. This is a word that we don't use much. The daring aspect.