Harvard Psychiatrist on How To Get Ahead of 99.9% of People (Starting NOW)

you can take seemingly an average person and you can turn them into something extraordinary and if you take an extraordinary person what you will find is that they have gone through some kind of process to make them that way you're always using the instrument of yourself and once you start teaching people those things you see an astronomical Improvement in basically like all dimensions of their life happiness Income Life satisfaction studied to become a monk trained and taught at Harvard Medical School I'm a clinician I've done Neuroscience research can you cure depression the scientific answer [Music] is thank you very much Dr K Alo or healthy gamer GG youve came on the iced coffee Hour podcast you do these things where you psychoanalyze other massive creators you've done it for like lwig you've done it for xqc who else you've done it for Destiny for all of these people and they are so fascinating and I'm noticing amongst like those Ultra successful people they are uniquely special or different in the way that their brain works have you noticed this I mean so all these people are outliers but I I think the the really interesting thing is that you know when I talk to these people and for the record I don't psychoanalyze them like psychoanalysis is like four hours a week for like years and years and years that's really what psychoanalysis is but I think that if you look at like generally speaking human beings we share a lot like the fundamental nature of the way that our mind works the way that our brain works like we all basically have the same parts of the brain all the parts of the brain do the same things and in some people the activity levels of different parts of their being their personality their brain call it whatever you want to are just at different places right and so that's what really creates an outlier I mean there may be some genetic differences of course but I think generally speaking my experience has been overwhelmingly that you can take seemingly an average person and you can turn them into something extraordinary and if you take an extraordinary person um what you will find is that they have gone through some kind of to process to make them that way and like that was the experience of like my life like absolutely so they just weren't born as an extraordinary person I mean so it depends on how you define extraordinary so like you can look at IQ for example and you can say like all these people prob probably have super high IQs but like there are a lot of people in society who have the same level of IQ that like let's say streamers have or or people who are very successful um and interestingly enough there's even some data that suggests that high IQ on on the whole correlates with like success up until a point but if you're very very high IQ there's some evidence that suggests that it's actually very hard to be successful is that why uh gifted kids are often special needs that was one of your most viewed videos yeah so this was something that blew my mind when I was in residency training I had a supervisor one time that told me that like you know gifted kids are like special needs kids and that kind of blew my mind and I asked her like what do you mean by that and so she started explaining this to me and then I sort of realized and I realized that this is what had happened to me so if you think about a child who's gifted right so let's say that you're in like the top one or 2% of IQ um the first thing to understand is that your experience of school is going to be very different right so kids who are very smart literally have needs that are different from the average kid so if we look at academics so the school moves at the pace of the slowest child right if we look at our school system what's it designed to do schools are not places where we take kids and we try to have them live up to their fullest potential kids are places if you look at like the mandates around schools it's about like leaving no child behind so the system is is sort of designed to take the worst performing kids and kind of like make sure they're doing okay so if we look at like special education at schools what is special education for it's for the kids who are struggling not the kids who are bored and this is what tends to happen with kids who are super smart is that they get bored with school um I remember when I was like in the first grade I you know my math teacher gave me a worksheet and she was like here's the worksheet and so I did the worksheet and I walked up to her and I said here I like 10 minutes later I gave it to her and I was like can I have the next one and she's like what do you mean the next one this is what we're doing today and so school is incredibly boring and then what tends to happen is that these kids start to like flounder in a lot of ways they get distracted in a lot of ways they become uninvested in education the other problem that they run into is that if you're a kid who does really well in school and you're not challenged you don't develop study habits so this is a really common problem where what happens is you're at the top of your class in the first grade second grade third grade fourth grade fifth grade sixth grade seventh grade you hit high school and now suddenly you need to study and you haven't developed any study habits and you literally do not know how to study so what you'll see is this like tanking of GPA for kids who have high IQ as they reach the natural point where their int their raw intellect is no longer sufficient for like learning calculus right and so these are the kinds of needs that kids have that we don't sort of recognize um when they've got high IQ there's also other kinds of data so if you look at like uh the the rate of depression so if you look at the prevalence of depression about 99.5% of people on a given day will be depressed if you look at people who are in the top 2% in terms of IQ it's 36.6 and so it's like staggering that like you know these kids while they're gifted in many ways we sort of think about IQ as just sort of a straight positive which I think if you have an environment that is conducive to it it probably is but taking a smart kid and putting him into an average world is something that is like oftentimes very very difficult yeah do you think that homeschooling is a solution to that I mean it could be but you're we have to presume that the people who are doing the homeschooling know how to provide for the special needs of of the kid who's super smart right sure one thing that I think is rare that shouldn't be so rare is kids moving up and going down in grades because I was just talking to my brother's friend who went up four grades in elementary school and he said because he was so bored that he like you said couldn't develop those study habits because he wouldn't need to study for those exams because he could rely on his raw intelligence and then once he went up four grades he actually fit the general like IQ of the or not the IQ of but like you know he would need to study the the same amount as the other his peers and it had actually ended up really positively affecting him for the rest of his life whereas other people it really hurt don't you think that maybe there's some social issues that affect you though if you skip too far ahead and you can't relate to your peers and maybe you feel like maybe you're a bit of an outsider like the kids that go to college like at 16 yeah so I mean my brother went to college at 16 so like he's one of those kids and I think there's definitely some kind of price to be paid but let's think about the Baseline so how many kids who go to college at 18 fit in right like I'd say maybe 50% sure so absolutely there are social changes that there are additional social pressures um and we kind of see this with homeschooling right so a lot of parents who will homeschool will be super careful about creating a positive social environment so they're involved with like extracurriculars and sports and things like that um so I I think that it's a fair assumption to say that this person is going to have some kinds of social difficulties but I think the biggest thing to kind of consider there is that these kids will be viewed differently right so they'll have some kind of because you've got a 16-year-old who's hanging out with 18year olds or in the case of your friend I mean four years is a lot you've got like a 13-year-old who's just hitting puberty who's in grades with like 17y olds right and that's like that's really challenging in a lot of ways for sure is IQ genetic and if it isn't how is that something that you could necessarily measure accurately like are IQ tests are they do they work uh so there is a part of IQ that is inheritable so there's a portion of it that is absolutely genetic um you know we're probably talking about somewhere between like 50 and 70% is my guess uh I think we're pretty good at measuring IQ but the key thing is like it's not like take our IQ test on the internet that's what I did same um and so if if you really look at it like real IQ testing done by like a neuros pychology or a psychologist is is like kind of hard to get access to like I think it it's a test that takes maybe even a couple of hours and it's sort of like very standardized and stuff like that the validity of it also depends on it not being publicly available so people can't like practice for the test so I think IQ is a pretty valid construct I think the problem with IQ is that we use it a sub as a substitute for all of these other important constructs that most people ignore like EQ is at the top of the list there where if you look at actually like success in life EQ correlates more highly with success than IQ does what are the differences between the two so EQ is emotion quo and I kind of think about it as being broken up into a couple different pieces so this is stuff like selfawareness um emotional regulation skills um even things like empathy and being able to develop relationships so these are all parts of like EQ and a really good example of this is you can look at so what do you all think the average income is for the top 2% of the population top 2% of income earners probably 400 Grand I would say 500 Grand % oh is it higher no no go go ahead I was going to say the world or the US uh I think this is us us yeah I would say probably 4 to 500 is my 350 yeah so yall are in the ballpark right so I think it's somewhere I don't remember if it was 250 or 400 kind of depends a little bit on it's actually perfect like somewhere around 300 350 which just means you know they're all kind of like Finance Bros so spot on my answer is a little closer than Jack's though it actually was not if we rewind we rewind the tape we'll see four to 500 is my guess 350 while we're taking guesses Graham guess how much this super nice super fancy espresso machine would cost you I don't know it's pretty nice 200 bucks if you went with a traditional retailer that would be the cost but with today's sponsor sonic power you can get really high quality electronics for just a fraction of the cost for example this espresso machine 120 bucks lest how does that work so basically sonic power cuts out the middleman that drives the prices of electronics up they go right to the supplier and sell directly to the customer which allows them to keep the quality High and the prices low that's actually really cool it's really interesting what else do they have well also have an ice maker that you can use to make iced coffee oh that sounds so good they also just have a bunch of other stuff that are perfect for Christmas gifts such as their dys and dupe hair dryer their mini massage gun electric wine opener and so much more see I don't see the point in spending more money than you actually have to on a product if you're able to cut off the middleman and save money why not do it it's fantastic and Graham did I mention 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Co use code IC and you get 20% off your entire order thank you sonic power for sponsoring today's video and now let's get back to the podcast so now let me ask youall a question what do you think the top 2% youall know what Mena is yeah what do yall think the top 2% of Mena earns a year oh my guess is probably I'm guessing it's going to be a surprising you absolutely data point so I'm going to say probably like 90 150 for me 100 so top 2% of Mena spot on actually earns like 25 to 30% of what top 2% of the total population but my guess is because a lot of those people are more on academics or maybe they need something that's so just like mentally stimulating that those those fields don't pay as much as the people who maybe are getting into like sales so possible right so there's all kinds of interpretations of the data that we need to be careful about um but I think a big reason for that is like think about who joins Mensa right so like a lot of times this isn't a dig on Mena but like people who are utilizing their intelligence in a active way in the world oftentimes don't have time for Mena and a lot of times people will join Mena at a young age but I think the key thing about Mena is that you know it goes back to this idea of like IQ is like a gifted kid with special needs where they run into these problems like a lot of super smart kids that I work with you know they run into these problem problems where they like don't develop study habit so then when it comes to college and Landing a job or they're socially isolated they're more prone to things like depression um and if you think about you know how do you make 400 Grand like networking is a huge part of it self-awareness is a huge part of it knowing when to keep your mouth shut and when to talk um being able to regulate your emotions is a huge part of it so I think that what you probably need to be successful is like some minimum level of IQ and it probably scales some as you get smarter and smarter and smarter but what I've seen the most transformation because IQ is relatively fixed is teaching people EQ skills so as you teach people more about themselves and how they function as human beings right because like at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you do you're always using the instrument of yourself and we never get formal training about why can't I wake up in the morning right why do I like coffee why do I get dependent on coffee why do I get dependent on pornography why do I feel the way that I do why do I feel uncomfortable presenting in front of my bosses like there's all kinds of stuff about you as an instrument that we never learn and once you start teaching people those things you see an astronomical Improvement in basically like all dimensions of their life happiness Income Life satisfaction like Financial stuff so how do you go about analyzing that for yourself or do you think that you would need someone else's help to kind of get that information out of you to like work on that you can actually figure out in my opinion you can figure out most most of the stuff by yourself it's just probably going to take you a lot longer so the first thing is that you know before I went to med school in residency I spent about 7 years starting to become a monk and that was like transformative for me and what I really loved about it is like I was struggling in school so I basically like I was a smart kid I was you know I jumped a grade um and then like was doing fine in school until I kind of hit high school and college and then I started like failing out of college because like it was just getting straight FS I I I was one of these gifted kids who didn't learn how to study and so one of the things that really frustrated me is like I knew what I needed to do right so like I just need to wake up every day and like I need to go to Spanish class at 8: a.m. and I have trouble waking up so then the next semester I was like okay like let me get a 8 a.m. Spanish class that way it'll force me to wake myself up and if I force myself to wake myself up at 8: a.m. then like my day will be productive so I tried all these intellectual techniques to analyze my life and try to figure out like how I should optimize things but the basic problem is that like this thing did not listen to this right so I I knew what I needed to do I just couldn't bring myself to do it and what I really found when I went to India and I was like failing out of college and my dad was like we've tried everything like I look you need to go to India right so he's like and I was like all right fine whatever what does that mean he says Alec you just need to go to India you're like Dad I've tried everything I'm getting FS you got to go to India son how is India going to like straighten you out it's a great question so I'm Indian yeah so you know my family is lucky enough it's my karma to have this kind of background and my parents are wonderful people and they tried everything so like as I started failing they tried to tried tough love they tried um you know they they sent me to see a psychologist like they kind of tried everything under the sun and nothing was working and so like I think they understood that there is a knowledge about the self in the East that is very powerful compared to the west and if youall want to understand that the simple thing to understand is that all of of our scientific understanding about you Neuroscience psychology whatever none of it actually applies to you it's all population based so when we say like do you all get that yes right so so this is the for the average VI I think proba so this is the thing that's kind of confusing for people so if I say that like let's say ssris or anti-depressant medications are 30% effective for depression does that mean that if I give you an anti-depressant medication and you are press you will get 30% better absolutely not so what we do in Western science is we take 10,000 people and we give them something like we'll give them let's say anti-depressant medication and then we'll see on average what's the Improvement so what you really need to understand is amongst those 10,000 people there are actually 10,000 individual responses to these medications and then what we do is we average all these together and then we kind of say this is what's right so the best example of this is like do you all know where we got 2,000 calorie diet any idea probably just the average person right absolutely so it has nothing to do with science nothing to do with metabolism nothing to do with physiology nothing to do with carbs or keto or any of that stuff it's not scientific at all literally what we did there's this thing called the enhan study and what we did is we asked Americans do you have any health problems and they said no and then we said okay for all the people who have no health problems how many calories a day do you eat and then we literally average that number and this became a recommendation so if we use the system for fashion right what would be our recommendation we're going to take what you're wearing we're going to take what I'm wearing we're going to find three random women on the street we're going to we're going to take all those pieces of clothing we're going to average them together and everyone's going to wear like a gray smok right that's our recommendation so a big thing that a lot of people don't realize is that Western medicine is not individualized and this is precisely why you can read a paper on Neuroscience let's say you read a paper paper on Neuroscience that says willpower correlates with success and then what do you do with that like I read that paper and then do I get better at willpower like there's no there's no subjectivity to it so in the East the way that they learned about their mind was very different they started with me and only me I don't care about anybody else how does this instrument work from a subjective standpoint and this is why the West I mean the East developed meditation because someone sat down and was like how do I control my mind how do I calm myself down what is the technique that works so what we see in Western science is that we're very deficient in techniques we know everything about the science of Charisma and the science of willpower and the science of memory but have we figured out what's the best way to learn have we figured out what's the best way to boost willpower you know what the answer is what's what's the one practice that we have that boosts willpower in memory boosts willpower and meditation absolutely right and they figured that crap out 6,000 years ago 10,000 Years Ago by some estimates without a single scientific study because they looked at what actually works for an individual not what works for a population and that's what where we are in the west and it's great I mean Western medicine isn't bad right I'm a medical doctor and it's good in a lot of ways because if we look at something like cholesterol medication if I'm seeing a 100 patients and I want like this population to die less of heart attacks I can give them cholesterol medication it'll improve the health of the population as a whole but there's no individuality to it and so this is where I think that like what my dad kind of circling back to the point at hand is he sort of recognized that like what I needed was like something that can be taught in India like I need I don't know exactly what he understood but he kind of said like hey this is what you need because they tried everything else so you just need to go and for once in my life I just like listened to him I didn't know what I was getting myself into I didn't know what I was going to do there I didn't know but I know that I had tried everything that I needed to try and like nothing was working so I needed something drastic and that it certainly was okay so you you go to India you arrive what is what happens did they just send you to like a camp or something you have family in there that you stay with or how does this work great great questions okay so the the first thing to understand is I've been to India a ton of times but I went to a part of India that I've never been before don't know anyone don't speak the language how much did you know going into this nothing you just showed up in IND I just showed up he said you need to go we booked a plane ticket for 10 days and then I hopped on what is like like okay I'm wondering as a kid my dad says Jack you have to go to the Homeland you're going to Wales and I'm like okay I know nothing about Wales they send me off to Wales I arrive then what I'll I'll tell literally what happened okay so I I this this conversation with my dad is at 2: a.m. it's in our living room okay and the reason we're having this conversation is it's the end of my sophomore year it's my second year on academic probation I'm on the verge of failing out of college or I've already sort of failed out and it's like if I continue failing they're going to kick me out okay then my we've tried everything he's tried yelling it for the last 3 years we've been having like heart-to-heart talks and trying to problem solve and whatever so we're both like we're we just both resigned we're like this is screwed right this is just not working so then he just says you need to go to India that's like that's what it was you know what while we're on that topic we talk a lot about financial success here on the channel but what's even more important is the mental health along the way so in today's sponsor better help reached out I actually signed up myself for a few different sessions and my therapist gave me some really helpful insight that I had never heard of before that really helped me understand my ADHD so I got a lot of answers as to why I do the things the way that I do and also the most mind-blowing was actually how it impacted My Life as a child but then I learned how I can use my ADHD to my advantage and 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episode so I get on a plane I go to the airport and I land in Bangalore and then like I don't have a phone number I don't know what's going on like I don't like this was like back before cell phones were a thing this is 2003 okay so like I'm sitting there and I was like well [ __ ] like I don't know what can I yeah tell story okay so I'm like sitting there right and then this like finally like you know I know I don't know if you guys know but you know when you go out to of the airport you walk out of the baggage claim there's a bunch of people waiting for you like your family's waiting for then they wave they're like oh my God right so like everyone leaves and then there's one guy waiting there and I walk up to him and I'm like are are you here for to pick someone up and he's like yes okay and I'm like are you here to pick up all and he's like okay and I'm like do you speak English and he's like okay and so I was like are you here to pick me up and he's like okay and so I didn't know who this guy was he was waiting for someone and I'm the last person there so I get in a car with him and then we're in the car get in this van and then we're in this van for like 2 hours and we clearly like we leave the city and we're driving out of the hills there's like no light okay and then like we we like Drive there's a gate there's a guy at a gate the guy opens the gate we drive through this is like 2 and a half hours in it's like a bumpy road there's I can't see anything there the power had gone out okay so then like they they like walk me to a place and then like this lady comes out and she's like you know oh hi Alo you know like I know your father really well I'm Dr nagaratna and so I was like cool okay thank God I I came to the right place they show me to my room it's about midnight maybe 12:30 so I like brush my teeth I change I go to sleep super bare room I I don't know if you guys have even seen like you know like poor conditions and developing it's not like poor but you know it's like super simple kind of like old school like clay floor single window um you know fan that doesn't work like very simple bed so I go to sleep and then suddenly I'm awoken by the sound of a bell and then I'm like what the and I hear this Bell like someone's ringing this Bell and I look outside I see the moon like what is going on here so I I'm kind of like is something wrong so I think that there's a fire or something because it sounds like a fire alarm and I step outside and I hear people moving in the rooms but no one seems panicked so I'm like I don't know what this is but let me just I guess I'm going to get dressed because I hear people I hear toilets flushing and whatnot so I get dressed and then I kind of wander outside it's like 4:30 in the morning the moon's up next thing that I hear is I'm like what the what was that and then I hear it again and then I hear like literally 50 or 60 people like vomiting and then I walk out and then I see like in the Moonlight there's a ditch and there's about 50 people lying up and there's a handful of people walking behind them and all of these people are vomiting copious amounts of stuff into the ditch and I'm like oh my god what have I walked into is this like the plague am I going to die turns out that there's this yogic practice called vandi when vandi is a practice that you do where you drink like a gallon of isotonic water so salt water and then you vomit it up and it turns out that this this practice probably has a ton of health benefits hasn't been studied very well but is really good for like allergies and things like that you know I can't recommend that as a medical doctor because we don't we don't have the data but that's just one of and I'm like oh my God what is this place and so turns out that nothing was wrong and that this is just a yogic cleansing practice um or should the practice which like helps you you know clean out your like lungs and your stomach and like all this other kind of stuff um and I sounds shocking and so what I discovered in India was that was my experience of what I walked into actually so I think I was answering a question okay so so couple things how were you not just horrified because I was horrified I would not trust getting into a car with a guy that couldn't speak my language I didn't even know if I was picked up by the right guy he drives for 2 hours in a in the middle of nowhere I wouldn't I would just I would call my dad and be like Dad is this the guy like send him a photo of the guy like are you sure there's no cell phone a landline there's got to be a pay phone somewhere but you just how were so so even just getting in the car with this guy maybe times were different back then when you say let's understand something forget about times it's not about times it's about me and you okay yes let's here okay so when you say you're terrified yes terrified of what losing my life getting kidnapped your life is worth something Yes mine wasn't well right like to be honest okay so were you like depressed in things or was it I'm sure like take your pick bro of whatever mental state that is negative you with like I was going no dude I was someone who was a smart kid failing out of college um you know the the the town that I grew up in five out of five Indian kids that were in my grade in the whole city three of them became doctors right so like super high expectations like failing at life miserably trying everything that I knew because I'm a smart kid I'm supposed to be what what what was I what did I have what was worth losing nothing I had nothing worth losing that makes sense so you're here at this place how does this change your perspective what do they do how do they start so the first two weeks I'm crying every day um every day I get on the phone and I call from a a pay phone right so they have like a pay phone like one pay phone in the ashro and like I'm on the verge of telling my dad like send s me a ticket I want to come home I hate it here like I can't eat anything I've got like all kinds of GI problems from like stress related stuff and things like that so I'm like on the verge of vomiting it's boring there we're doing a bunch of yoga and we're like learning some meditation techniques but it doesn't really do anything for me and then so for for the first two weeks like I hate it I hate it I hate it and then what I I remember like I even remember the daily phone calls and thinking to myself like I'm going to tell them like to send me a ticket and I want to come home and then over the course of that phone call I'm kind of like choking back tears and I just I say like not today like I'm not going to like cave today I can always get a ticket tomorrow I can last like one more day and I it was also like a ton of Shame it's not like pride and like perseverance it's like shame it's like I can't even do this like I'm going to call my Daddy and say like send me a ticket like I've washed out of this to I couldn't handle the shame of it and then what started to happen is I made one particular friend who's probably the closest thing to a guru that I've had but he was actually another student in the asham and um then I started like he we would go on a walk every day and like we would just talk for about an hour and a half and I was just blown away by like what this person understood like he started like helping me understand things about myself I was like you know we were talking a little bit and I think he also understood that I needed help right so he started to steer the conversation in particular ways where I would ask him questions so like one day for example like he brought me a book and he's like hey I think you should definitely like read you know these particular chapters and then we'd talk what book was it um I think this one was Kundalini Tantra I'll try to Google search that I it's not a book I would recommend people read um is say yoga or no what is sure okay we can talk about what yoga is if youall want but in the Eastern system of of you know but this Kundalini Tantra is more tantric than yogic so tantric you guys are familiar with that term tantric sex is usually what people talk there's a there's a tantric a thric technique to have a prolonged period of um sexual activity without orgasm edging is what you're saying It's Kind well so no it's not actually so it's not edging it's not edging no no because actually technically it's not edging I'm just trying to understand no no so what it is actually it's way better than edging so much better than edging this is the beauty between the East and the West got it so in the west what we do is we Edge right and what is edging it is delaying orgasms so you build up that internal frustration so that when you finally ejaculate then it feels really good right that's edging yeah yeah so the thrix do it way better they have orgasm without ejaculation an orgasm doesn't end until ejaculation happens so they're able to have orgasms for like 40 minutes at a stretch you're kidding no that's what sex sex is Graham wants to know how you do this so badly so I mean so this is this is where like how to do it use it on for the average person listening just for the average person it's not something to be done oh yeah so I I would not recommend it why cuz then you just I mean you give up on other all other things in life the only joy you have all I need is this so the key thing to understand about I guess we're talking about thrixxx now um so here's the key thing to understand so all meditation is designed to elevate your Consciousness to a certain level okay now everyone's like what does that mean like oh like let's like Elevate our energies to like no so I want youall to think about your life right so like right now how do you feel how do I feel yeah I feel amazing right now incredible I'm like super happy okay I'm a seven maybe six and a half seven like are you saying gen like generally in this moment honestly I would say I'm like a nine and a half I'm so happy why I'm because I have so many questions about psychology just general philosophical questions and stuff like that and I feel like I can learn a a lot from you and these are questions I've had ever since I was a kid okay so what is your mind doing right now well generally speaking I would say 85% of time is very present and just listening to what you have to say and then there's other 15% of the the time you know so one in seven seconds I'm like kind of just like thinking about something else and it's like oh I wonder about this and then you're saying something and I'm applying that to my own life when did I do this okay let's understand a couple things okay so what do youall think is the correlation you said you're 85% focused right so what is the correlation between the of focus and how good you feel about yourself I would say higher Focus feel better never thought of it before okay right like when you get into a okay so rule number one of this discussion because this is what we're doing now you are not allowed to site anything okay okay we're going to learn 100% from our own internal experience okay because who the [ __ ] knows if the flow state is even a real thing like who knows like it could be a conspiracy we don't know science could disprove it a year from now right that's what science is really good at we disprove stuff all the time time okay so let's let's talk with graham for a second so Graham if you sort of think about the happiest moments in your life like it doesn't have to be like the birth of your kids or anything like that but like think about those moments where you just feel the best yeah what can you give me an example usually I'm working on something I'm really excited about usually those are the moments that uh like the flow state for me which is time to stops and all of a sudden okay okay hold on so now we're getting into a couple good things so let's talk about time stopping what is the quality of the Mind what is the mind doing when time is going it's occupied something okay so let's let's talk about when time is moving super slow the opposite of stopping right what kind of thoughts do you have when when your mind is like oh my God this is taking forever neurotic thoughts repetitive thoughts just like running through right so you're thinking when is this going to end oh my God you're thinking about this and then you're thinking about this and you're thinking about this so this is the first thing to understand the level of focus of the mind correlates with happiness okay and if we think about when we're unhappy and also we have to have mind active to notice the presence of time that's the other thing you'll get that and it sounds kind of weird but is our mind active when we sleep kind of I mean no I mean like dreams from that yeah right so no Neuroscience okay we talk about REM sleep and sleep unconsciously active but how do you know that dreams is that unconscious I would say so you I don't think you I don't think you necessarily control your just sometimes a dream dream do you control your thoughts uh sometimes no I don't I feel like a lot of thoughts are just unconscious thoughts that bubble up I don't really would say the majority of thoughts we don't control right right if we could if it was the default state of human beings to control their thoughts any human on the planet could pick up a chemistry textbook and read it from cover to cover we do not control our mind our mind controls us okay so let's kind of go back to the task at hand which is understanding the nature of Mind Time Focus happiness all this crap so first thing to understand is that the more distracted mind is the more you're going to be aware of time the less focused mind is the less you will be aware of time and sleep is a great example so sleep is like a state of essentially no mind except when we dream sure we'll get to that maybe that's kind of a tangent but so the first thing to understand is that the activity of the mind correlates with the perception of time and so when we enter something like a flow State the perception of time disappears the other thing that's happening in a flow state is we have focused mind so if you sort of think about let's talk about like not being able to enjoy dinner let's say I'm going to dinner with y'all okay and we're like having fun but if my mind is not focused on the dinner and I keep on thinking about oh my God these guys are going to ask me to teach them how to do dri sex and that's only a problem because I only want to teach one of them how am I going to fix this right so the more distracted my mind is the less I enjoy the present moment with me so now let's talk about orgasm what happens when you come to your mind go ahead Graham waiting for you Jack the moment of orgasm is really powerful from a Consciousness standpoint because your mind becomes completely one-pointed that's why it feels so damn good so if you look at human beings what do you gravitate towards you gravitate towards things that bring your mind to one-pointedness I'm walking on down the beach and there's a Sunset and I'm not thinking about anything I'm just there right and I'm absorbed in the experience of the present or I'm whitewater rafting and when I'm whitewater rafting I'm just there I I literally cannot afford to think about anything else and the interesting thing about orgasm is orgasm is one of the very few physiologic techniques that automatically induce complete focus of the mind right and even if we look at people like there's if you look at people who have like sexual difficulties right so anorgasmia or difficulties with desire and stuff like that someone who has anxiety and has difficulty maintaining an erection it all makes sense right because now we understand that if sex is about present and focus and orgasm is one-pointedness but I am anxious I'm thinking is my partner enjoying it are they not enjoying it blah blah blah then I don't enjoy it it's difficult for me to attain that one-pointed state so sex and orgasm specifically is essentially a meditation technique and all meditation techniques are designed to bring our mind originally to one-pointedness and then transcend mind entirely the activity of Mind completely stops and we still retain awareness which is something that very few people actually most people have probably experienced it but it's like in in glimpses here or there and like maybe like whitewater rafting is a good example where there are times where in a flow State your mind is still active usually but there are times where youall will hopefully have had in your life where like literally your mind had no thoughts but you were still awake and fully present is that that ever happened to y'all mhmh outside of orgasm yes examples pickle ball right like a ping pong too like you just get into that Groove where you're just doing those forehand forehand forehand forehand and the ball is just like bouncing you're kind of listening to it you talking about ping pong or masturbation uh pingpong uh yeah I haven't experienced masturbation of course but yeah in ping pong yeah you just get into that flow state where you just like just keep the ball on the table right so so then like if you think about it you're not even having thoughts no and even I would even say so this is the cool thing about meditation is as you transcend mind you also transcend ego which is like oh my god let's transcend the ego it's not anything so mystical so you become one with the pickle ball you know what I mean like you lose yourself you stop being this guy muscle memory like your body's kind of controlling you your body is controlling and even your mind is on autopilot and you're just present and if I were to if I were to ask you like you know like you'd forget about your haircut you'd forget about everything you're just one with the pickle ball and so this is the goal of meditation is is to attain these states of mind and the reason that they do thric sex is because during that sustained state of orgasm it's not about pleasure so this is why I say that y'all are not ready for it okay because it's powerful stuff y'all are playing with fire here and and um so what what we really want to achieve is it's a tool that's used to sustain that state of mind for an extended period of time by powerfully harnessing your physiology that makes a lot of sense and I I think it explains why I like pickle ball so much and why Graham likes work so much because he always says like when he's working I ask him like why does he like it he's like why just get into this Flow State I know I'm not supposed to use that term but where that's all he's thinking about and anytime I break him from that or like we be in there talking about a title thumbnail and I'll hear like and Macy walks in like no he doesn't say that to his fiance but you could tell like he just wants to be in that state of like that is all he's focusing on yeah so if you kind of look at it so this is the thing about meditation is we as human beings some of us figure out how to attain one-pointedness of the mind that a lot of human beings will figure out right and the key thing to understand about meditation is that it's a state I mean not meditation but what we're going for is a state of consciousness and there are many ways to attain that State of Consciousness so uh tantri sex is one meditation is another Flow State pickle ball Runners High working out sometimes video games so when I work with Esports professionals I try to teach them how to enter the Flow State and become one with the game and they know what I'm talking about and that's when you see these players who enter the state where they are literally like seeing the future and it's like they know exactly what's going to happen on the map they know exactly where these people are going to be and if you're on on the opposite team when someone is like the god of the video game it feels like you're playing against someone who's super human because they are they've transcended like basic human functioning so is that your biggest takeaway going to India was was simply the point of focus leading to happiness that's a very core fundamental it may be the biggest takeaway um i' have to think about that a little bit but I would say the first thing that I learned that I really fell in love with is like this was a course in myself so we formally study mathematics we formally study you know all kinds of stuff like even psychology but people who study psychology don't become better human beings like you can take a course on addiction right you can even get a PhD in addiction it does it literally does not it's not the same as addiction treatment so learning something subjectively and learning something like informationally are like two different things and so the coolest thing about India is this was a course in myself where do my desires come from how can I conquer desire like literally how can you control any part of your mind how can you can you control desire where does happiness come from where do my desires come from like where do my thoughts come from why can't I wake up on some days I can wake up at 8: a.m. and go to Spanish class on other days I can't what's the difference and this is what I found so frustrating is no one could give me that answer and I even looked at science right and science will say like circadian rhythm but how do you fix that like we don't have a course in the self like literally how does your digestion work what determines whether you're constipated or not constipated we don't teach people these things and so what I loved in India suddenly I was I I was in a class that taught me about all of the things that were [ __ ] my life which is me I I want to bring up uh something that I've been thinking about a lot lately which is the fact that we have a lot of different ideologues and experts that try to force their framework on certain people such as like you have the Andrew Tates you have other personal development gurus and stuff like that and they're all saying like different things but they're all promising that these things will make you happier and fix you right and so you're taking these data points you want to apply it because they're coming from a place of authority right but then every single time I listen to this I feel like this data suggests nope this is wrong you should go with this and then the only other thing I have to fall back on that actually is of substance would be my own personal experience rather than like looking at what the data suggests and it was more effective when I when I look at my own personal experience and and that's what you're saying you kind of experienced in this monk culture in India all these people have different answers and let's say that for the sake of fairness or charity or whatever that there's a varying level of evidence for each person correct right but everyone has some kind of evidence so I think the reason that you have a thousand different answers a really great principle for medicine which is anytime you have a thousand treatments for something none of them work think about that for a second why would that be probably each one is tailored to a specific person nope it just doesn't work so let's think about like do we have like a treatment like if you get pneumonia today how many how many what are the treatment options pneumonia yeah whatever medicine they have antibiotics right youall take antibiotics it's not like like there's a thousand things for sleep right there's like all kinds of sleep aids and someone's like use this app and do this meditation and like eat this diet have chamomile te you can take medication right because there's a variability of response but just from evolutionary standpoint us humans figured out like oh like before you have surgery what they do is they take some Betadine and they swab it all over the world anywhere you have surgery take Betadine or some kind of alcohol they swab some part of your skin anytime you go to the doctor's office get little alcohol pad before you get an injection when something works all of humanity adopts it stuff like clothing and cooking food right so any anytime something really works it is universally adopted and what's going on with I think all these people have different ideas I I didn't know sorry if I'm cutting you off here but is I think that they're saying okay this is what maybe worked for me or this is what the science says and they're saying it'll work for you and they're also doing populationbased medicine right they're saying it'll work for everybody like they're talking to the internet they're not talking to a sample size of one they're saying if you want to be rich and successful and famous or whatever get laid um then this is the path but that's like fundamentally different from how I think things work is that I'm a so I've like studied to become a monk trained and taught at Harvard Medical School I'm a clinician I've done Neuroscience research if you ask me will this work for you my answer would be I don't know I have no idea has it worked for 100 people I've worked with before you absolutely but one thing you learn when you start practicing clinical medicine is just because it works for 100 people does not mean it works for the 100 and first like 100% And medicine is going to teach you that the hard way because you think it's going to work and that's when you do that's when you hurt a patient that's when you fail a patient because you assumed you knew what was going to work and so you're like yeah this is going to work done and that's when when something doesn't work cuz human beings are individual right like we're all unique we all have a unique set of genetics life experiences right mental faculties even there's uniqueness within you that varies from day to day your caffeine level will affect your State of Consciousness will affect the level of anger that you feel your caffeine dependence from month to month will alter all of those things how did being a monk affect all of these beliefs what was that like for to be a monk so super cool yeah so I think um a couple things happened one is so after my first uh summer there so I spent three months at the asham I went to my teachers and I was like I want to become a monk and so one of my teachers was brilliant or they're all brilliant in their own way and so he's like okay that's great we we're thrilled Alo that you are very excited good beta that's very great go back finish your schooling get doctoral degree and then come back when you're 30 and we'll take you he didn't say it at the time but what I Now understand now is that becoming a monk is about giving up forsaking life it's about sacrificing giving up your life okay I don't have [ __ ] worth giving up there's no sacrifice so what my teachers told me to do is go and do rise to the top of what you can put forth a 100% effort go get a doctoral degree have something worth giving up and if you still want to give it up will'll take you so what does it mean to be a monk I mean it depends on the tradition but kind of the the takeaway that I got with a big lesson that I learned CU my teachers were awesome was that being a monk actually has nothing to do with the external it has entirely to do with the internal so if you think about what does the monk do from day to day right they just meditate like basically a lot they'll do Karma Yoga which is like service and other kinds of things but basically like all the practices it's all like an internal Journey like the journey for enlightenment is not gained by wearing a fancy Mala and wearing robes and shaving your head and like that's not I mean there's plenty of false monks out there who don't know what's going on right like it's kind of weird but like once in a while we'll have like this enlightened being who like creates a religion whether it's like Jesus or buha or whatever but we have thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of priests and monks who clearly are not enlightened and so my takeaway and this is what I thought was beautiful is my teachers were like you don't actually need to forsake life and what I sort of discovered is that you can live life fully but like it's internally the way that you respond to things that determines whether in my opinion you're really I would use the word so sadak is someone who is pursuing spiritual discipline and like pursuing the road to Enlightenment and it's even beautiful because it's not a form it's not a job it's hard to describe so saddu are not the same things as monks monks are like formally like you know you take vows and this kind of stuff but a sadak is someone who's like going for the prize which doesn't necessarily mean a monk so my concern with the pursuing Enlightenment now I noticed you said pursuing the road to Enlightenment rather than pursuing Enlightenment I'm just going to assume you're talking about pursuing enlightenment nope you're saying great great catch okay that explains a lot okay that so basically my problem is like I've been like I said I've had these questions philosophical uh psychological questions I've had my entire life and I try to read these books these personal development these growth books and I've read so many of them and they're good books I love eart toll okay I really really really do and I found a lot of value in his books but then I read something else that spits the contrary and then I wonder like I said earlier like which one is right and I think the problem is I read the one book that changed I would say my perspective on all this was sidartha funny enough I'm sure you've probably read it at some point in your life I don't remember I probably read it in like high school or something it says very similar things to what you're saying now which is like for the truth you you look within and it tells a story of this kid that grows up and he's supposed to he's the bravman son if you know what that is so he's supposed to grow up and be like this this Legend in his town and very like um I would say enlightened and then he goes and that's not satisfying enough for him so then he goes and he lives with the um what do you call the the the the people that oh athetics I don't know which what what kind a s c t i c so athetics are like monks or saddu right that that relinquish all pleasure yeah everything in order to aism yes so he does that and it it doesn't satisfy him it doesn't fulfill him so then he goes and lives a life of vanity where he like makes a bunch of money and becomes a merchant and does all these things and it doesn't make him and then he lives with gotama the um the Buddha for a little bit and it doesn't satisfy him and then at the end he just sits by a river under a mango tree and then he finds like Enlightenment just looking and listening to the river and I loved this because I had read so many personal like development books and everything and all these people telling me like this will make you happy this is how you find fulfillment Etc you follow this framework and then in this book it's just like just sit kind of listen to the river and I think it was implying obviously some form of like meditation or enlightened or heightened Consciousness right and so I know it's it's kind of like counter because I'm still trying to like find something I would say in order to rather you know what I mean yeah yeah so so so if I'm hearing you right so like if someone listens to that and they're like okay instead of learning all these things the right technique to Enlightenment is is to sit by the river and listen to yourself right uh well it's not saying that as like a like a strict framework but just kind of like look internally yeah right so then then we can say okay look internally and then I will become enlightened mhm right but if I look internally it's not going to work so so you're right that there's there's a lot of counterintuitiveness so let's explain okay so this is why it was a great catch that I said I'm pursuing the road to Enlightenment not Enlightenment so I'm not going to get in line ain't going to happen so let's understand a couple things so let's talk about budha so one thing to understand is that this the road to Enlightenment is not like a good thing it's like a road of frustration Despair and like last ditch efforts and the Hail Marys so if we look at Buddha's life okay so Buddha was like a king or a prince so respected powerful married a beautiful woman had a healthy kid had everything that he wanted in the world and in in humans I was going to say in the west but probably humans we think that when we're unhappy we think something else will make me happy so anytime I feel unhappy I think if this circumstance in my life was different then I would be happy there's one really interesting thing is if you look at all of the enlightened beings that come out of like India in India there are for casts so brahans are the priests these are the closest to God the teachers and Experts of meditation below them you have the chatas which are the Nobles so the Nobles are like kings right so they like fight Wars and they eat meat and they like have sex and stuff like that brahmans can have sex too and Below them are the merchants or the vishas and Below them are the sudras or the laborers so it's kind of interesting because if you look at all the enlightened beings that come out of India none of them are brahans or maybe arguably one so everyone who gets Enlightenment is a king so Buddha was a prince Krishna which is like a Hindu god um was a king Ram who's another Hindu god was a king so we've got like three enlightened beings and I'm sort of defining enlightened being as like this person was so special that like a religion kind of cropped up around them I think you can make a very clear kind of historic and anthropological argument that these people were extraordinary like outliers of outliers that's why religions popped up around so then the question kind of becomes why aren't the experts in meditation like the ones becoming enlightened and the answer is really fascinating and it's that what happens to the Kings is they think okay I'm unhappy and so they go and satisfy that desire and then they're unhappy because of something else they satisfy that desire they satisfy that desire and eventually they discover that no amount of satisfaction of my desires will ever bring me to happiness and then they're screwed because the formula the the game that 99.999% of people on the planet in the history of humanity this is the game that we've been playing for happiness yall are unhappy about something you're unhappy about your haircut if you had gotten a different haircut then you would be happier right I mean happy marginally marginally I don't know if happy is the right term but maybe satisfied sure right so so the the positive affective experience yes right so like the contentment with life the lack of frustration the lack of maybe a tiny amount of shame or whatever said everything's fair game yeah no by all means by all means dig in in agreement yeah go for it all right so so this is what happens is like these people attain everything mhm and then they're like this doesn't work and then they're screwed and that absolute despair that nothing is going to work is actually the fuel that you need to become enlightened whereas the brahin they're like oh we're going to be aesthetic we're going to forsake material things so what they actually do is they never there there's a seed of desire that's always there the Brahman wakes up in his Hut go goes to the king's Palace teaches them meditation for an hour eats a great meal at the king's Palace goes back home and eats a simple meal at home before dinner and then goes to bed right so every day they're traveling to the king's Palace they're seeing the the person who has everything and there's a seed of Desire there that's left you can get it really small but you can't really get rid of it 100% or it's very hard to and so the really interesting thing is that it is through the gratification of your desires for some amount of time that you'll discover that desires are not The Root of Happiness once you learn that lesson internally then you can really start chasing it wow okay so the interesting thing is that most of the people that I work with who are like really on a spiritual path are also professionally incredibly successful and what I try to help people do is they'll come to me and they'll be like you know let's say moderately successful and they'll be like I want to learn spirituality because I'm unhappy I work in private equity and I've been doing this for a while and I have anxiety and like it's causing problems in my marriage and like I'm a managing director here and like I don't know like like I I've I've gotten to where I wanted to go I took all the right steps in in life but like I ended up in the wrong place like I was supposed to be happy and content and I encourage yall to just think about the people that you know who are incredibly professionally successful right the most successful people on the world and just based on what you know about them would you describe these people as like happy and content probably no more than the average person right so and there's data right so I I get to break the rules that you know money correlates with happiness up until a point and I think that it's hard to be content when security is at at risk um but in my overwhelming experience what I find is that the people who are really on the spiritual path are the people who start out as materialistic because that's when you really get you it's a very powerful learning to recognize that nothing in the world will make you happy but you can't know that until you have everything in the world you think that you need to hit like the lowest low to break to I would say find some form of not find Enlightenment but like end up on that road towards Enlightenment and really start questioning the things that you've believed probably that you have to achieve so much to then I think go to something like that well it's just about sacrifice right what do you mean losing things that you thought were valuable and then getting that reality check of like you know you need to lose anything go ahead oh I was saying from your perspective it seems like when you achieve so much then it's like what's the next thing I could achieve I think that would be Enlightenment at that point Not Like a Rock Bottom thing but like okay I've got everything I I need here more is not going to help that so what don't I have Enlightenment so I I think I think youall are both right but I think the question is the wrong question and so listen to me okay so what are youall doing you're saying okay there's this internal path right and what are you asking you're saying is this the circumstance that leads to the right internal path or is that the circumstance that leads leads to the right internal path so so I know it's sounds kind of weird because I talked about this shared set of circumstances as as scientists so by the way when I first went to India I was super skeptical about all this kind of stuff and I'm still skeptical to a certain degree um but I think that we can look at data and we can say okay like here are the core principles but at the same time I would say that you don't need any particular circumstance because the work is actually internal you don't technically have to have a lot of desires I mean fulfill all of your desires you can start right now and just look at the nature of desire and what happens when you fulfill a desire does it lead to happiness right so let me ask youall a question what do youall like to eat what's like a favorite Indulgence In-N-Out In-N-Out Burger okay so like what is the correlation between what is like eating in and- out let's go with in- and- out I think it's a little bit more indulgent than Pokey this is a healthy Chad over here um so if we think about like like what happens when you eat in and out what happens to your happiness I would say like it it goes up when when I'm when I'm eating it and then afterwards not all of the time but sometimes I'm like I shouldn't have ordered three burgers you know and then I feel a little bit like yeah you know not the hard decision so so let's even give you the ideal scenario okay so let's say that you eat in and out and you don't have three burgers you have two yeah two is good okay two is good and then what happens to that desire what so you feel happy right because you had two burgers yeah and then you also feel proud of yourself because you didn't overdo it right so there's a second happiness there well I don't usually order two burgers so it's I I couldn't I couldn't put myself in that situation yeah so so I don't get fries by the way guys so don't think I'm some like indulgent person but I get three burgers okay go ahead um so so then but what happens over time so now that you've satisfied your desire yes and we'll get back to the guilt in a second because there's a lesson to be learned there but then are you happy forever no no I wake up the next morning and usually you know my stomach doesn't feel fantastic okay uh and then I would say I am back to my Baseline okay two days in 3 days in I forget about it okay and then what happens eventually I get in and out very good right so the first thing to understand is now we're in we're we're stuck y'all think about this so now your happiness is dependent on your access to In-N-Out this is the way that you're structuring your life right like think about that and here we are we and you go chase the in- out because you want the in- and out and it makes you happy but like hold on a second now you're like [ __ ] in- andout is going to determine whether you're happy on a day or not not to mention what you said earlier which is a brilliant Insight by the way that often times satisfying our desires also comes with a cost so I'll give you like an example of let's use In-N-Out but let's let's space out a little bit so I want to eat an In-N-Out Burger yeah it's going to be great I'm excited I'm even happy before I have it which is interesting no something to be learned there so then what happens is I have my first Burger and then am I happy I would say you are satisfied yeah so like I would maybe happy I I don't know I don't like happiness is kind of a dangerous word yeah it's a danger so let's just talk are you 100% positive no what do you need to be 100% positive another Burger absolutely right right so even when you gratify a desire it grows and you want it again and then even if you have that second in an Out burger and then you have that third in an out burer and now you've crossed the the bad end of desire and we've got into like the Shady part of town where now you feel guilt so if we really think about it like how much joy do you really get out of this you're the first Burger doesn't do it creates more Cravings the second Burger kind of feels sort of good because you know your stomach is like we're done now bro like your stomach tells you this is enough but your mind is like [ __ ] no one more baby let's go I want that Joy the joy that I used to have oh my God that first Burger was so delicious and the second Burger was so delicious I'm chasing the past and I want to recreate it and so you have that third burger and then you're filled with guilt and now it's like if you really think about it the anticipation causes you to suffer even the first Burger doesn't give you perfect happiness because you want that second one and that second one as you're eating it isn't good enough because your mind is like I want to be hungry again and have my first Burger that's really what you want and so the Mind goes on chasing chasing chasing and the more that you look at the gratification of your desires the more you'll realize that it's you're kind of screwed like no matter what you do so you don't I think it helps and we have data to suggest that there's a certain path that helps people get to Enlightenment I think that is a scientist and at the same time you don't need it but what if we switch in and out for something like the gym something or working you know like how would this be different because you have the negative effects of eating too much in and out but what about doing something like that that's positive that you're just as equally obsessed with the gym excited to go to the gym so I encourage you all to look at it right so let's talk about the gym what is your relationship with happiness in the gym love going to the gym getting good yeah so I'm guessing that so when you go to the gym are you perfectly satisfied when you leave most of the time usually I want to do more like I'm I'm like I I should have pushed myself hard okay right so there's a slice of unhappiness and so let's think a little bit about when you go to the gym what is it that gives you your contentment I love being able to zone out like for me put on my hold on a second this is not this is not desire this is not the gratification of Desire this is attaining a state of mind okay not the same thing goty okay right aren't you Desiring that State of Mind absolutely and what does that do what is Desiring a state of mind of Peace what does that create for you happiness right like no [ __ ] no are you kidding what is attaining a a state of mind no Desiring a state of mind oh what does that right because why does this guy love the gym so much I'll tell you why he loves the gym so much because the rest of his [ __ ] life he can't get it you see that cuz your mind is so like you love work and you love the gym because rest of your mind you're not in that peaceful state of mind and so you don't like the other parts of your life you don't like cleaning the toilet you like going to the gym zoning out feeling good about yourself I think I like tasks I like things to do throughout the day sure like I feel productive when I do those things right so I I think that also feeling productive you're going to I think you're going to end up sort of in the same place now if we're talking about a state of mind then that's that's kind of my point is that the fulfilling of desires the reason that desires are so good is because if you really pay attention to your process of eating in and out there's an orgasmic moment sprinkled in right when you're not doing the thinking and that that's the thing is when you take that first bite of in and out are you the first bite of the second Burger where everything is aligned and in that moment you're just enjoying the burger you're not thinking about number three you're not regretting number one you're not thinking about the gym tomorrow you're not feeling guilty so if you really look at even the mechanism of gratifying your desires it is that when you gratify your desire is usually for a brief period of time you enter a particular state of mind so what's the end goal is it just to be have extended periods of time in that state of mind huh because I heard two questions the end goal right yeah what's the end goal is just being content anytime not having anything that you need the end goal for who for the average person I have no idea what the end goal is for the average person okay but you're suggesting that it's not such a good thing when I'm on like that that perfect equilibrium where like the sauce and the bur the ratio is perfect and I'm just fulfilled enough like like achieving that is not a great a good thing what do you think is achieving that is that a good thing or a bad thing perfect probably not a good thing because it means I'm about to eat a third burger you know no no no not allowed so that moment of perfect equilibrium is exactly what you're chasing and how does it feel to have that perfect moment of equilibrium I think chasing instant gratification generally speaking broad swipe or Broad broad Strokes here is not a good thing like if you want to assign as a general framework what is good for me what is bad for me you find something that is painful immediately but yields rewards down the road the same way that like gratification immediately pain down the road you want to go with the long-term benefit okay so great point so let's talk about instant gratification okay so the problem with instant gratification is that if we think about it there's there isn't a the problem with instant gratification is not in the gratification it's the price that you pay for the gratification does that make sense yes so it's not the state of mind that's that's the beautiful thing about instant gratification is when you do this particular thing for that flash of OT so I'm an addiction psychiatrist so like I'll talk to people about using heroin right and I talk to them and I'm like this was before I understood addiction Psychiatry i' be like I don't understand like heroin is ruining your life you're like on probation at work your wife is divorcing you your kids hate you you mortgaged your house you took a second mortgage out on your house in secret and you spent it on heroin like I don't understand how you just it's ruining every part of your life I don't understand why you can't just stop because everything that you tell me that you love that's falling apart in your life is caused by heroin and he's like bro you don't understand the moment I use heroin all of the things that are falling apart in my life go away that's what fixes the problem it doesn't create the problem it fixes it because while I'm high I don't care that my wife is divorcing me I don't care that I'm heavily in debt I don't care that my kids it's the only thing that makes me feel good right so instant gratification that Bliss that we can create chemically is a wonderful thing if it wasn't a wonderful thing we wouldn't have addicts the problem is when you describe instant to it it's the price that we're willing to pay for transient states of Happiness eating that second Burger isn't so much of a problem and life is meant to be enjoyed the tricky thing the reason that we the the key thing that we don't understand is that thus far since we have not studied ourselves with even 1% of y'all yall make a beautiful podcast how many hours have yall spent analyzing the podcast that you make what do you think I don't even know I have no clue many like 10,000 20,000 30,000 three and a half years right of doing this I think at probably my ballpark would be about 10,000 sure right so and and like how many hours do we spend studying like what makes us happy and what's the nature of our desire and what you'll discover is that the instant gratification is great like it's that state of mind it's always the state of mind so then the question becomes and this is the problem that we make is because we haven't studied it we believe that Des the gratification of Desire is the is the default way it is the default way but is the only way to attain that state of mind we never try to cultivate the State of Mind independently we never ask ourselves what are the thousand different ways that we can get to the state of mind and gratification of Desire is just one of them orgasm is another and orgasm is not the same as desire right so even if we think about the sexual act there's the I want to get laid and then there's the yeah now we're naked which is a fulfillment of a certain desire and that's like a state of like sort of bliss and then there's the actual state of orgasm which is like a no mind state if you really pay attention to it there's like no mental activity at all postn Clarity and all the stuff that happens afterward then your mind kicks into gear right so you're saying people generally stumble across something where they get to this no mind state right like this pure Bliss equilibrium everything's perfect they stumble across something like that and then they continue to pursue that but on like kind of like an unconscious level whereas if they had more conscious thoughts about hey I want to achieve this state in other areas of life and they pursue that then it would serve them better so here's what I think happens I think human beings do what our brains are designed to do to do okay which is that when I feel a certain way I form an association so like what happens is you like how why do you go eat in and out because your brain is like where is this happiness coming from it's coming from the burger so it is a reflexive thing it is a biological thing it is an evolutionary thing okay and so then what happens is it's not it's kind of common sense right that's why everyone in the world is chasing desires because it's actually a default state of like how it works it's like simple reward circuitry nucleus cumb stuff like I'm sure you all have heard about this from other guests right so when you eat an In-N-Out Burger you get a spurt of dopamine and the nucleus accumbens it reinforces Behavior gives you pleasure you want to do it again to get that pleasure again but we also know from Neuroscience remember I'm allowed to side things y'all aren't is that sustained activation of the same circuit doesn't work right so this is how we develop tolerance playing the first game of League of Legends or Dota or valerant or whatever you want to do is lots of fun the eighth hour doesn't give you the same amount of fun so what people will do is they'll they'll naturally continue chasing their desires because that's the only consistent way that they know how to get to like a state of peace or contentment transcend and y'all oh my god do you guys know how much people Envy you especially Graham you know why they envy him this guy is so lucky he feels at peace when he's working holy crap everyone on the planet wants to be like Graham I wish I could love my work because then I could be super successful and I wouldn't have to suffer for it I wish I loved work as much as I love orgasms or heroin we got to clip that hear that Josh okay so there's a couple things I want to I want to dive into here I would love for you to finish your story too but while we're talking about Graham okay so oh I love talking about myself I have these theories I've known Graham now don't know how many years four and a half years four and a half years okay so fairly well cuz I've live five it'll be five in March cuz I've lived with him as well I've lived with him for eight months here and like no eight months in LA and then what about a year here so quite some time right we're business partners best friends so many things right I notice this kind of like lower vibration undertone of stress impatience negativity like more neurotic thinking Etc a lot in him I'd say very little negative thinking and I Absol and I absolutely I have the the speaking Starbucks cup right now okay and I love him for it right like I I enjoy spending time with him and everything but I notice these things and as his friend I like to provide suggestions on how I think he can improve his life that's just what I like to do right you want to know what you can do to improve his life don't talk about the look at his face don't talk about the negative things about him in public that's number one but he oh he doesn't really no I wouldn't no I speak about Graham extremely highly and when I'm saying I notice these like lower vibration things such as stress and stuff like that this is me trying to be productive not just saying this for viewers or I would agree with them on the stress the negativity okay it's more this is you know you the Starbucks cop okay go ahead the star my bad so anyways and I try to provide suggestions to him that I think would make him better off is that like he really seems happy when he's working but I'm nervous that a lot of the is about the ends it's about it's and he says he attains like this Flow State yes which which I I agree I can totally understand that but part of me is concerned that he continually places his value and worth and stuff on the ends rather than enjoying the process and so I want to know maybe for Graham uh what would you say to somebody like Graham that thinks maybe something will continually make them happy but they continually find themselves in this lower vibrational State I would never say something to a person like that why I would ask them questions so I I think like there's like the fundamentals are different here so like you think he needs help right M and you've diagnosed some problem because you know him really well right so you preface this with I've known you so for so long so you started out by stacking the deck of like here's all the EV for why my opinion is correct right and then you said this is what I've observed it's clear to me that you love the guy and that you want to help him and your heart is in the right place but if you kind of pay attention how did he respond to what you said he combed it absolutely right some of it I agreed with the stress I agree with sure so you're self-aware and stuff like that but affectively like emotionally like he did not like that bro like yall can go back and watch the tape or just like watch there's like a lot of good how you feel about it I'm indifferent about it I I think there's a healthy amount of like back and forth that Jack totally toally Jack crap for his haircut so it's like back and forth I totally agree that there's a lot of Health here I'm not trying to create a mountain out of a mole hill but I saw something called micro Expressions is and I just so I I I I got some degree of discomfort from him the moment you brought it up like when you were saying like all this kind of stuff and I'm not surprised that he pushed back on some of it but so you want to help someone right what do you know about them just what you've observed I mean clearly I mean a very small portion of all of the the things in their life the determinism right in his life that is led to him making certain judgment calls and then all I observe is this like I said a lot of times stress and like lower vibrational things and from there I try to understand where is that coming from okay so Jack so let me ask you how many things have you said to Graham to try to help him with this I would I would say I've brought it up over the course of a few years several times right and what effect does it have so far none but you're a professional so I like your opinion on it so what I'd say is that you're a smart guy right jack you know your stuff bro come on I think I'm you've read a lot of you've read a lot of books oh tons of self-help tons of self-help right you're very insightful you're very intelligent you all have a podcast where like literally the best and brightest Minds present company accepted come to your podcast and share with you the wisdom of just the crazy successes they had and how they built their life you are very equipped you say you're not a professional you may not be a trained psychotherapist but you know a lot right I also have a good understanding okay and despite you knowing so much and reading so much and learning so much and knowing this guy so well everything you've said hasn't helped stop saying think asking right I agree with that I agree with that fully 100,000% without a doubt yes I think people imposing their own beliefs on what will improve someone's life as I alluded to earlier is just overall a negative thing rather than understanding and understanding for themselves so it's not about what you're saying is right or wrong so here's the crazy thing every single thing that you've told him is going to help right well it potentially could have applied but who knows right ah no so so potentially could if applied so I'm going to say my statement again you tell me if you agree or disagree everything you told him is going to help if applied so everything you told him is going to help why isn't it being applied because he doesn't want to okay how do we get him to change his mind he probably has to find out for himself how do we help him find out for himself asking questions there we go and look at what we just did with you what do we do with me did you pay attention uh you changed his you asked me questions yes there you go and now you get it right okay so this is something my entire life I have done this where if I see an issue with someone el else using the term better off just as a broad stroke I try to understand where they're coming from and I see some place where they're suffering in their life and I try to assist them and make them better off I have done this my entire life I try to fix people right and so I see these things in Graham and I wonder why people don't listen to my advice because I've continued to give advice from my 25 years of existence to people and they don't apply it right and they are not better off from my advice so I would say in the past year maybe to I've kind of recognized the fact that they do need to find out for themselves right and there is Merit suffering and and um and I would say letting someone suffer or letting someone but but at what point at what point do you step in and say something I know it's super no no Ja Jack so so here's like once again I think you're so you're brilliant okay so let's just like I'm about to say something that I think could come across as harsh but I think you're ready for it so let me just let me just cuddle you for a bit bit okay so like you care a lot about other people mhm right and you read a lot and you learn a lot you've applied it to your own life you know how to help help other people you know 100% that it's going to help him like you know that like you can give me some humble [ __ ] answer to make you not sound arrogant because you're virtue signaling and you don't want to seem like an [ __ ] but in your heart of hearts you know it's going to help him right yes okay so let's like let's be authentic with ourselves number one okay okay so now the question I think the reason the problem that you're running into is like so you want to help people yes right and that drive to help people causes you to help people and then you want to like make the world a better place and love and stuff like that where you need to start sure you can learn techniques I've just told you okay you can ask questions instead of say things and so now like Jack is like yeah now I'm going to like ask everybody questions and then I will help them and I will make the world a better place because these are the people that I love and I'm going to help them have you ever asked yourself why you want to help all these people why I because it it's it it satisfies my selfish desire of being happy I would say do you know that I like I like it when somebody makes a difference I tell someone to open up a high old savings account I just did this with a close family friend or not a family friend a HomeTown friend he did it and then I texted him I'm like hey did your interest come in and he's like yeah I just made x amount of money off of X amount of money this is amazing I'm like yes like this is awesome you know what I mean or I see someone that that's overweight and I want to help them lose weight if you really want to fix this issue yes the key thing that you have to understand is it's being driven by this it's not actually about the other person it's I mean it is about the other person there's love in there it is satisfying my own selfish desire yes right so so then and I I even think the way the word selfish desire I think is a mental construction I don't think that's in a sense what it is I think you've observed something within yourself and then you've like read a bunch of books and you've said this is what's going on that's not I mean that's a piece of what's going on so I think if you really want to get good at this you have to really dig into where does this desire because it's like sure it makes your ego feel good but it's like deeper than that right probably yeah like this is like it's a part of who you are I would say so yeah right it's not so satisfying your selfish desires on the narcissism in ego Spectrum this isn't narcissism this is this is you know what this is this is debt bro what is it debt you owe these people you think so absolutely this is karmic debt baby I interesting okay okay I I I appreciate the Insight do I agree or do I disagree I I would say I air more on the side of disagree because I will do this plenty of people that I that I don't feel like I owe oh no no no you ow that right okay so I know that this is something that you're going to disagree with because you don't have a framework for it and I haven't explained it but if you want to know what's really going on this is what I would here's what I think you will accept Okay the first is that there's genuine love correct yes there is some gratification of the ego correct yes but there's something else there's like a hunger there's a compulsion which is not gratification of the ego because if it was the compulsion was gratification of the ego we'd see narcissistic kind of behaviors tell me I'm beautiful like tell me I'm great like tell me I'm awesome you don't need to you don't want them to tell you that you're good you need to help these people like you get that hunger like do you feel that yes yeah where does that come cuz that ain't ego bro I would say I do it's part of my personality to always strive for fairness this isn't about fairness well you said it's servicing a debt right uh sure but I I think that's a mental so and this is this is where I I agree I do think that they're a little bit misaligned yes so here's here's my point I I know that y'all aren't going to get this right but this is a conversation where the my goal here is like a little bit different which is like I'm going to plant a seed that ain't going to make sense okay but as over time if you guys really want understand I can try to explain it but over time what you'll discover so this is another thing about the East right so like the stuff that I learned in India a lot of it has scientific validation but the majority of it doesn't but I don't think that's because it's scientifically incorrect I think that the science is way too slow because they've been doing this stuff for thousands of years so they have thousands of years of development without scientific validation and there's all kinds of scientific evidence overwhelming scientific evidence for the theory of Karma and we just don't realize it because we don't think of it that way so like let's go back 2,000 years okay um and let's say that okay like so the theory of karma says that certain things about this life are determined for you before you're even born how radical is that very is it true I don't think I would like that like like hair color is that determined before you're born before based off of the genes probably oh interesting so there is a mechanism that determines your hair color your height your eye color your HLA type and the pre predisposition for autoimmunity all of these things can are influenced before you're everborn right right so genetics is actually a huge scientific support point for the theory of karma because they said this for thousands of years and then we discovered genetics and then we moved it out of the theory of Karma and we said this is a whole new thing but now we it's like duh right genetics is common sense wasn't Common Sense 4,000 years ago Gregor Mandel hadn't even been born wouldn't be born for thousands of years and they sort of figured out that there are factors in your life that are essentially cause an effect so now the question becomes do all effects in your life have causes yes that's your answer what's your yes I would I would probably agree with that yeah do all causes have effects yes 100% this is like Newton's third law I think right every action has an equal and opposite reaction so that's like common sense right so we also have Western conceptions of this like the butterfly effect butterfly flaps its wings through some crazy chain of cause and effect so now the question becomes at what point does the chain of cause and effect end so we're saying that okay hair color is fair if I slap you across the face there going to be karmic consequences that's like completely fine right we're not talking about that you'll hate me we mean like just the physics of it so physics cause and effect is consistent with Karma so karma is essentially that actions have consequences that's all it is and then the thing the yogis they sort of figured out okay where does this end where does the kic chain end and they figured out that cause and effect is a fundamental principle of the universe and even the time at which you're born the fact that you're born in this year has a Cause right and that everything in this world is caused by something else and is it is an insight into that that is when Karma becomes kind of mystical and I may have lost people there but it's like harder to understand but do yall get what I'm saying yes right so even the fact that yall live together for 4 and a half years has causes has observable causes but also has subtle causes and this is where Karma gets into the weird mystical stuff that is not scientifically valid at all I think it'll become validated I think just like new Newtonian mechanics validated a piece of the theory of Karma and then genetics validated another piece of the theory of Karma and then Bessel Vander kul's work on like trauma validated another theory of karma that actions have consequences on a psychological level which was something that 200 years ago SCI or even 100 years ago scientists would have said is completely ludicrous right that everything is like behaviorism or it's Neuroscience or it's the subconscious so like the simple idea of cause and effect the theory of karma is nothing but cause and effect and it's to recognize that every aspect of of your life has some kind of cause and then there are certain learnings that will give you a better handle on that stuff but what I feel from you you is that there's an ego gratification part but that ain't it but what I think you'll discover and you should explore this is really look at like why do you want to do this where is this hunger and where is this drive coming from and what you'll discover is that you can't pinpoint it to any psychological event in this life you won't be able to find an antecedent cause that explains the power of what you feel I agree yeah I would agree with that so when you say in this life do you mean like a past life or do you it's been predisposed right it's just just to give you all a weird example okay so a couple years ago so I do Psychotherapy right so in when I in my Psychotherapy practice like so I'm like I use evidence-based medicine okay so sometimes patients come to me for this stuff but like even when I teach it I'm very clear with them that this is not like there's no scientific evidence of this so with meditation and stuff I'll say this is what we know scientifically this is what the Traditions have been saying for thousands of years this is what I feel confident about from a clinical perspective if you're curious about exploring the rest of it I'm happy to teach you but just understand that there's no scientific evidence behind what I'm going to say next okay so I've had a couple of patients that have had like lifelong mental disorders and the weird thing is that like you know I had this one patient and I she's amazing and has taught me so much and then like so she's had anxiety her whole life and so I'm teaching a class somewhere and someone comes up to me after the class and they're like hey like I really loved what you taught us is there any chance you'd be willing to see my wife like just would you do like a consult or something and and we we have a professional relationship I was like sure and so this person has had anxiety for many many many many years and um has also been in like clinical treatment for many many years and and she's doing fantastic like is doing really well um you know is is like a a well on the track to partner at her particular firm is professionally successful has kids is happily married like everything's great going great and so after a while so she's like curious about this sort of spiritual stuff and we're doing some level of psychotherapy but she also has other clinicians that she works with and then like you know one day she's kind of like hey can I tell you something I never told anyone and I was like sure right like you're therapist you can do that and she's like I I haven't even told any of my other therapists this stuff and I was like oh okay right but not really I was just like yeah tell me because we were in a particular space in therapy where it's not exciting or anything and then so she starts telling me about like these memories that she has and like I I asked her so there's some kind of work that you can do that's called samsaric work so these are like the S scars are like the karmas of the past that sort of are present in your current life and you build them in this life too it's we can talk about that in a second but so she basically starts telling me about these like very Vivid memories that she never had and so what I did is I kind of treated it like even the fact that she never had it and her specific experience was really harrowing and she's like I asked her like when you feel anxious like what is the image that comes to your mind and she says I'm underneath the floorboards and I know that if I make a single noise the booted feet on top will like know that I'm there and I know it's all over and every day when I feel anxiety like this is what it is it's this thing and so this has never happened to her right so there's like no evidence that she's actually been in this situation so I talk to her a little bit about and I'm kind of shocked by this and so then I tell her like okay here's my take on this so if we accept the theory of karma we would say that this is uh some scar from a past life which is present in this life there's other scientific explanations maybe you watched a movie when you were 3 years old and the movie was really scary and it traumatized you some way it doesn't have to be something mystical from a past life right there's all kinds of different explanations here at the same time what do you feel about like psychotherapies that trauma right like what if we work with whatever that emotional mental energy is and this is what I think is like unsafe territory in terms of science is is just sort of saying like Okay once something exists in the mind like who knows where it came from but you can metabolize that thing you can heal that trauma we do that and she gets way better so now I'm I come out of that experience and I start to wonder a little bit about what do I need to learn from this right does this mean that karma is real no actually we have no evidence that karma is real but we have one really interesting clinical hypothesis and that clinical hypothesis turned into a question that I started asking patients which is hey do you have any traumatic experiences that never happened do you want to talk about those and oh my God number of people that will talk about this stuff if you like and they're like yeah like this is like crazy but I have these Impressions I have these memories you know people think that this is all like some people think these are repressed memories um but it's been really interesting therapeutically and there's actually some decent actually not decent some very lowquality evidence if I really being fair about it that you know this I'm not the only one there have been multiple psychotherapists and psychiatrists that have sort of made this discovery and have worked with like memories that don't exist now that's what we know is that the memory doesn't exist or that the event did not happen but there's a big difference and this is where I I kind of take issue with a lot of people who are like into Eastern mysticism because they're not scientists so they'll say ah see there this memory doesn't exist therefore it must have come from a past life that's an extrapolation I don't think you can make but going back to you was that two tangential of an answer no no this is great so going back to you just my take on this stuff right so I know what narcissism looks like I know what altruistic personality disorder looks like so altruistic personality disorder is something when people feel super depressed unless they're helping someone else so it's a part of their personality that my value as a person depends on whether I'm helping other people or not I know what all the stuff looks like I don't get that vibe from you so I think what's going on with you is something deeper is what I would call it so whether you want to call it karmic or what in my experience I think the best words to describe it are karmic debt and I use that term I'm I'm giving you something that I know you're going to reject because what are you going to do after this podcast I'm probably gonna an Burg and M Absolut right in that order absolutely so so this is something that like I'm planting a seed and you're going to go explore it because I know that's what you're going to do and that's all I want you to do I don't want your acceptance Here and Now I want to open a part of you to explore this for yourself if I want to know about my karmic debt I want to go and I want to research it I want to understand it I'm never going to come to some actual substantial answer excellent right and then what's going to happen next I am going to be left I would say as an unfilled Cup right absolutely where so you can't find the answers outside where are you going to look for them bro inside sure there you go okay got it so for these past life experiences whatever that might be why do people tend to have the same recurring fears let's say whether that be Heights spiders Darkness uh certain things are all pretty common is that just an evolutionary thing that you know afraid of heights cuz dangerous it it's a great question and I think it's a question that the answer which is very scientific actually has an implication for karma that a lot of people will reject because they're actually biased so let's think through this okay how does a phobia for a spider develop usually it happens through a traumatic event right so if we think about phobias like I had a phobia of like a kangaroo because I got bit by a kangaroo when I was in Australia okay so it's kind of weird phobia right so if you sort of think about we all know this like scientific fact that you can rest as much scientific evidence as you want that people learn to fear things if we look at the Neuroscience of fear development when I have an aversive stimulus or a painful stimulus I will learn to fear it so we all fear hot pans right we don't touch hot pans because we know that it burns us if someone if I take a hot pan and we don't think about it as I fear hot pans because you are dealing with it in a way that doesn't evoke fear but if I walk in with a hot pan and I push it towards you your response will 100% be fear right so we actually have overwhelming evidence that phobias come from traumas right we have some evidence that some phobias come from some kind of genetic impression which by the way what is that oh it's a memory from a past life interesting right because that's what a genetic impression of an inborn phobia is do you all get that it's like we have genetic memory which is literally memories from a past life so then if we sort of say okay if if phobias come from psychological traumas we know that we can track those back so we can track back let's say 50% of phobias to psychological traumas completely scientifically plausible where do the other 50% come from so one of two things one is they come from somewhere else or two is that they come from a psychological the scientific principle is the same we just don't know where the psychological trauma is youall get that so if you sort of assume the theory of karma then everything makes sense this is simply a psychological Trauma from past life which by the way through things like epigenetic memory we also have low quality evidence for so this is where a lot of people who are like into the theory of karma will say like oh like we have this data from Holocaust Survivors and epigenetic changes and inherited anxiety and inherited features of PTSD and stuff like that and there's some evidence there but I think it's far from conclusive so we have some evidence that memories like literally now we know that memories can be transmitted between Generations so now the then the next question becomes okay so like was it you right or was it a different human being and that gets a little bit more complicated but does that answer your question it does yeah that's really interesting a little about certain mental ailments sure such as like ADHD and or like autism okay and the reason why go there are gonna go there Jack so we kind of brought this up before the podcast because obviously we take the online quizzes okay everyone does and I see this you know disgruntled look in your face what is your take of these online quizzes do you think that if it says hey you should talk to a professional that you should actually proceed and talk to a professional part of me thinks it's a little skewed I think it was my idea to take the quiz I'm not sure it was either me or Alex right doesn't matter but basically as as a bit of a background we kind of talked amongst ourselves you're like maybe we're autistic we do it and I don't mean this in like a joking way but like I think all of us have unique traits that kind of point in that direction and so we each took a quiz the four of us me Jack Macy and Alex uh I think on that quiz if you scored a 25 or higher you're you're you lean more in that uh Direction 24 and Below not so much uh between me Jack and Alex I think I scored a 24 Alex was like a 23 24 and Jack was a 25 so what are the chances that all three of us lean in that direction that's a question that I don't have a simple answer to but I have a complete answer cool it's just not simple so let's start with your first question of what do I think about these quizzes well that depends on the quiz so some websites for example will use validated instruments right so these are things that these are scientific instruments that are constructed tested we do things like factor analysis and stuff like that we develop these instruments ourselves at HG because the instruments out there don't capture what we want to capture but there's a rigorous scientific process to determine whether the the questions I ask you literally correlates with what I'm trying to measure so one of the things that we see a lot is like especially like in the private sector you have a lot of people who will develop their own tests like personality tests or whatever and like all of these tests like the reason they're very successful is because they have a lot of face validity so they're very similar to astrology in the sense that like why do people believe in astrology there's it's a more complex answer but one reason is because when you when you take the test it feels right to you therefore you believe it so the successfulness especially of a lot of these privately determined tests or like whatever you know like websites that people use the reason that people visit those websites what they're selecting for is not scientific validity of test I don't know if y'all have ever done like a scientifically valid test but it's a [ __ ] pain in the ass it's like 300 questions takes 90 minutes and they ask you the same damn questions over and over and over again that's what it takes to get to Scientific validity there are some versions of that that are a little bit better like we have things like the phq9 or the phq2 which are screening tools for depression so we've got some decent stuff that's short form but generally speaking stuff is like takes hours to really if you really want to get a faithful representation of what is going on with someone our science isn't really that good so should I TR should we trust these tests or not it really depends on the test but I think a lot of people are building tests that are very accessible and people like it when they fill it out which is really what they're designing the test for that's what they're shooting for because scientifically valid tests are really boring to take so I'm skeptical of many of those things second thing but who knows I mean maybe someone is doing all the factor analysis and constructing this was like a 30 uh question quiz that maybe took 10 minutes are all all autistic okay so statistically let's understand a couple things about autism autism's on the rise okay now we don't really know if it's on the rise because we're detecting it more or it's actually like increasing in the percentage of the population so are we catching cases are we getting better at catching cases which is certainly true or is it actually like increasing in the whole I think both are correct so if you look at one of the things that correlates with like autism spectrum uh diagnosis so like usage of anti-depressant anti-anxiety medications during pregnancy correlates with It ultimately a very small effect but it it does have an effect um maternal and paternal age also correlate with autism so we're all having kids later so I think that's like there's some data that suggests that that's possible but I think the reason that all y'all are testing High so maybe it's a bad test who knows right and if we sort of think about if I'm designing a test that I want to engage people I'm not going to give them a yes and I'm not going to give them a no what I'm going to give him is a maybe that makes him wonder and curious and then what I'm going to do I don't know if there was a CTA or anything like this sign up for this for a more advanced test there wasn't no so unsophisticated webs his fiance scored very low not yeah not very low but definitely on the the no so so then the other thing to understand which I I think is a key point of the complexity is I think it's a societ we are developing features that the ven diagram between the average person and someone with autism is like overlapping more and that's primarily through things like technology use so if we look at some of the features of autism it's things like difficulty with social connections difficulty with empathy sometimes difficult a lot of rigid thinking um a tendency for things like perseveration and this is absolutely happening to everyone because of tech so if we look at like what's happening so this is something that we help a lot of people with in our community is there's a social skills atrophy that's going on across society and unfortunately text messaging doesn't isn't just as good as in-person interaction so if you look at the brain so our brain interprets a lot of information from people right so I'm I'm paying attention to your facial expressions I'm paying attention to your body posture I'm paying attention to all kinds of stuff and this information is reassuring yall get that so a lot of the reassuring information we get socially is like body language tone eye contact stuff like that now when I start texting people or using Discord or whatever the brain is very efficient so anything it doesn't use it loses this is why we forget languages so if I start communicating with people in the absence of body language tone and facial expression the gears in my brain that interpret that stuff become Rusty and so then what happens is when I go into a social situation I'm no longer reassured by all of this information because that circuit in my brain is Rusty which then means I become anxious and as I become anxious we start engaging our problem solving circuitry now I'm thinking is this person like me not like me oh when should I enter this conversation these people are talking back and forth and I have something to say but should I butt in will they feel it's bad oh no now that the moment has passed I now there's a pause in the conversation but should I go back and mention this thing that there were talking about 60 seconds ago or is that awkward so then what happens is when our brain does not have kind of empathic information it uses cognition to make up the gap which is what it always does right so when I my left leg is damaged if I pull the muscle my brain my brain will naturally favor my right leg to pick up the slack so what's happening in our society as a whole is we are becoming less empathic and less emotionally aware also because technology suppresses activity in the lyic system in the amydala which means that like literally when I like you know I'm feeling bad about myself and I look at cat videos and then the feelings of Badness go away so we're getting more emotional like em more emotional disregulation we're becoming less empathic we're interpreting social signals less well because we're using online communication and this looks closer and closer to autism right because these are the deficits in the brain that people have with autism they have difficulty with social connections difficulty with empathy they can just see things from their own view so we also have online radicalization and Echo Chambers which is leading to rigidity and perseveration which we see take your political conflict whatever you want we'll see it there so I think these things are overlapping and makes it look like people are autistic but I don't think we're actually getting autistic I think we're affecting certain faculties that are consistent with autism but that doesn't yall see that's make sense right it's not autism I think interes it's like ADHD ADHD kind of if you have ADHD it mirrors a lot of the traits that an autistic person would have right would that would you say it's an accurate statement or no I it's it's fair right I wouldn't say that but and I I think that ADHD is I'm guessing on the rise or maybe it's the same thing with autism where like you know where we have access to instant gratification all these things that basically make it so our expectation or our standards for a certain level of entertainment value are so high now that we need to have this instant gratification in every single facet of life and I think that could mirror ADH whether or not it actually like transforms someone into someone with ADHD I'm not really sure I don't know if that's like a possible thing why does it seem like ADHD is getting so common it seems like half the kids growing up is like some form of ADHD yeah so I I think that's it's a great question I think it's the same thing as autism and exactly what what um Jack Jack said if the mind doesn't use something it loses it so if we look at attention span so if you look at like people say okay like screen time is good or screen time is bad sometimes parents you know will ask me we do a lot of work with parents and they'll ask me like like what amount of screen time is good or bad and that's well the issue is screen time isn't all the same so there's a a great guy named KL Marcy um was was a colleague of mine at Harvard Medical School he started uh an empathy lab thing where he and he ended up getting his company got acquired by neelen so what he would do is he would hook people up to eegs and like cardiovascular stuff and stuff like that he would measure them in a bazillion different ways and then have him watch ads and then he would tell companies this ad is the best based on the EG activity just brilliant idea so I was talking to Carl about this and Carl was kind of pointing out to me that like you know when you watch Sesame Street and you're a 5-year-old there is a certain length of like what you're engaging with the story is like maybe seven minutes long so now what's going on is that kids the moment they get bored with something so when you're bored with Sesame Street you have to sit through it and over time even if you watch Sesame Street every single day your attention span will actually increase because you're sort of forced to pay attention whereas now what's going on is people have such simple access to change the thing that they're viewing so if you look at it if you give a four-year-old an iPad over time what'll happen is they won't watch long form stuff they'll just switch off of it more and more and more and more and more which is why if you look at a lot of these things that are very very like common for that kids will watch it's like compilations of super short form stuff so there'll be an hour of like a kid that's like looking at 60c clips and is just like completely mentally checked out so we absolutely have a society that is shortening our attention span we also have a society so another key feature of ADHD is emotional disregulation there's even some uh papers now that are suggesting that you know there's add which is attention deficit disorder and there's ADHD which is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and they're even proposing a third subtype which is like addd with like emotional disregulation is the primary feature and so our technology is regulating our emotions for us right CU When I feel bad what am I going to do I'm going to look at cat videos um there's even a really interesting study that came out recently that suggested that 50% of women who use Tinder are using it to meet psychological needs completely outside of dating and so people are super confused it's probably not just women I don't know why the study I saw that video you did on that yeah it was really interesting it's kind of interesting right so so because people will wonder like why did this person match with me in the first place like you message them and they're like screw you you suck you're ugly and they unmatch and like why did you do that it's because they're fulfilling some other kind of psychological need anyway so if we look at what's going on with Society there's a lot of stuff that is making our brains more similar to someone with ADHD now there that may be independent of probably a my guess is a rise in ADHD as well uh because that also correlates with I think like parental age so as we're having kids later like we're seeing more of this stuff that's really interesting what are the implications of of giving a kid an iPad had I I go to eat every now and then and I just see this kid just just on the it's it's like nothing the world could be exploding behind them and they're just fixated on the screen that can't be good what do y'all think I think it's terrible I I think it's rotting away their mind and I think for kids to have access to to Tik Tok I think is is a Bad Thing even for myself I I constantly delete the app to prevent myself from going on Tik Tok because if I watch one it's just like five minutes goes by so fast I'm like what did I just do so that's so interesting to say constantly which means you're also constantly reinstalling well because I post on Tik Tok so it's it's a bit of a double Ed because I like to see the analytics of how my videos do um but when I'm on there I also like to see what's going on from a Creator perspective but I very quickly fall into the consumer so this has always been true with parenting where parents will do things to elicit behaviors in their children so how do I get my kid to calm down how do I get my kid to sit how do I get my kid to eat and so in the past like we had to do all kinds of stuff to get our kids to sit and eat but now we have this beautiful tool that like Veges them out and then they become passive and it's like you know you can just feed them and they'll be okay so it's a beautiful emotional regulation technique so like I don't know if you all so in our case for example like we're very careful around technology but you know when when they're when our kids are on a flight like we recently took a 30 hour flight with like a six-year-old and eight-year-old and so like during that time we like use technology right because that's what's going to happen but even for the first 12 hours of the flight no Tech and if you think about it like kids have been flying internationally all the time and they've never had technology and they've been okay on those flights right but now what's going on is parents are so terrified of a particular Behavior so then what happens is they give the iPad to avoid the behavior but in doing so what they're actually doing is reducing the cognitive training that they're putting their kid through now so what used to happen when you were a child and your attention is developing or even as an adult is you'd have to force your attention somewhere right so I don't know if you all like went to college but like you have to force yourself to study your mind wanders you force it to pay attention wanders force it to pay attention during this podcast force it to pay attention and so now what's happening is we're not forcing kids to do that anymore so now what's happening is we have a a a generation of kids who are no longer taking the stairs to get from floor one to floor three everyone's taking the elevator and what it's doing is Decon conditioning our minds which is why we see all of the problems that we see is that our minds are becoming weaker because we're not pushing them right everyone's our minds are constantly being driven around in mechanized wheelchairs we're taking elevators we're taking escalators we're not using our minds we're restraining them with these external devices that's what's going on so I think giving your kid an iPad just giving it to them I think is a bad idea how could parents counteract this is it simply taking away that stimulus from them so we do a ton of work with parents and here's what we've learned so it's my belief that technology is here and here to stay it's also my belief that when you excessively restrict a child there's a chance that they'll build that habit and things will be okay but there's also a chance that they will flip out when they get unfettered access so kids who for example like never partied and never had a drink and never were like super like careful when in high school will sometimes go to college and they will just flip the out so our belief is to teach restraint instead of restriction and this goes back to like the yoga and stuff like that right like what did I learn in India to control your desire to understand how your mind works right so this is what we really encourage is it's not about access to screen time or not access to screen time it's what are you teaching your child in relation to the screen so something that I do with my kids is I'll ask them they're like first thing on Saturday morning can we watch something and I say sure I'll ask him how much do you want to watch they'll say a lot okay how much are you having fun I'll ask him in 30 minutes are you having fun yes how much fun are you having so much fun do you all want to continue yes then I'll ask them after 30 minutes if I try to take it away they'll Rebel but I ask them are you still having as much fun no nah they start to get Wiggly they start to not like it as much what do you all think about doing something else no we want to keep watching because once the dopamine hits they want to stay then I say okay this is what we're going to do we're going to stop now I'm going to take youall to the playground and then in 30 minutes I'm going to ask you are you happy you came to the playground and if the answer is yes then I'm going to take you to the playground next time if the answer is no I'm going to let you watch 30 more minutes you're in full control right so a lot of parents will be like you know irrespective of what the kid says I'm going to stop it so then what I and the cool thing is like the kids will learn and so now they're like their technology usage is really good they don't get to use it as much as they want but like they recognize that there is a diminishing return on technology us which is such a great thing to instill in a kid yeah I like how you're teaching them how to be a free thinker and make decisions for themselves because I feel like school really teaches you you have to be at this place at this time and do these things and if you do exactly what we tell you that's great but then you go into the real world and you have no idea what you're supposed to do if someone's not telling you what to do yeah because I think that like we were saying earlier like school like creates factories right it's like factories for putting out a certain kind of kid we don't teach children how they work like we don't teach them about their mind I mean it's crazy I'll do you know I'll do like workshops and stuff at like Fang level companies and I'll do the literally the same workshop for like a group of 9-year-olds and it's just as accessible it's like where does your desire come from this a whole In-N-Out discussion you can have that discussion with a nine-year-old they'll get it just as well as you did big difference is if you teach it to them when they're nine like the whole trajectory of their life changes that's really interesting restless leg syndrome RLS is that a mind thing or is that a is that a body thing drack is terrible at this just constantly his leg is like that's not restless leg syndrome so you have something called neat which is non exercise ener something okay so let's talk about restless leg syndrome so first of all you ask is it mind or is it body there's no difference okay so like what we're sort of learning is that more and more things are psychosomatic so even things like physical ailments like arthritis we think of arthritis is a physical condition but if you literally get a phone call and you learn that your car has been stolen that will affect your mind right because it hits the Mind first and then the mind will affect the brain and the Brain will release cortisol the cortisol will increase demarginalization of white blood cells you'll have 50% more white blood cells in your bloodstream which means that your arthritis which is an inflammatory condition is going to get worse so arthritis 2 is a psychosomatic condition what we certainly know about restless leg syndrome is that it is certainly quite neurological as opposed to psychological so we know that for example Le there's a problem in the dopamine transmission so dopaminergic agents are very helpful for restless leg syndrome the other thing is that when we're talking about clinical restless leg leg syndrome we're talking about people who when they're in bed they kick their legs so hard that they wake up so imagine that like imagine you're you're being attacked by a bear and it's trying to bite you and you kick it the force with which you would kick that bear is the force with which rest people with restless leg kick so the first thing is it really makes things hard for if they're sleeping with anyone else in the bed the second thing is the force of the the cake will literally wake them up so now if this happens 15 every 15 minutes it's very hard to sleep so restless leg syndrome is like can be a quite I think it's actually like an under appreciated people don't appreciate how debilitating restless leg syndrome is it's going to be quite crippling for a lot of people wow what's going on with you I mean I have no idea if you have restless leg syndrome or not but that's not what I'm hearing what I'm hearing is that you're fidgety yeah I would say so yeah so there's a couple things one is that about 10 to 15% of the calories that we burn throughout the day for on average we're going to get to the variability in a second is from nonexercise something I forget what it's called the abbreviation is NE so it's basically like this MH right um and so we burn like 10% of our calories just like fidgeting now in your case what I would say is that you have a high amount of Vata so this is like an ayurvedic concept but you have a lot of wind in your body so you're you're kind of fidgety right so we we would say like even if you look at your hands um your features are very angular uh you're very like um conversationally Dynamic right so like if I have a conversation with him for three hours there's going to be a clear chain from A to B to C to D we're talking about meditation you've been kind of more running the show than he has right so you've been talking about meditation we're talking about this thing and oh by the way what do you think about this and if we go for 15 more minutes your mind will jump to something else so my guess is that you get bored easily my guess is that you can dive into something for a long period of time but then you may like leave it alone for a little while or move on to something else so these are all consistent with Vata which means that your mind is like the wind it can blow really hard in One Direction and it'll blow hard in a different direction later so it's quite powerful but it's not necessarily very consistent that doesn't mean that you can't consistently have a career it just means that the more variability that you have within your career I think the more your you will have your best mind whereas if I told you hey you're going to work a nine-to-five job and you're going to climb the corporate ladder for a decade he'd be better at it than you would I 100% agree with that Graham is extremely good at grinding like putting his nose to something he's scfa which is earth and water so stability like low acceleration high top speed high acceleration low top speed that's really fun interesting so so we have this joke I'm the kite he's the string absolutely yeah that's our joke he's the rock you're the kite yeah that makes complete sense very interesting so the cool thing about ayurva is that you're able to make these diagnoses because there's physical correlations with mental attributes so if you look at like the veins on the backs of your hands are going to be more visible than the veins on the backs of his hands he has a roundness to his face you have more angularity so what could you tell about that about like facial structure so your face is round his is more angular your nose is round his is more angular his ears stick out more my ears stick out more by the way what do you think I am is this an angular nose or a round nose uh angular absolutely right so I have high vaata too that's why we're vibing so much and we're like nice let's talk about this let's talk about this this is the other thing to understand about vatas is that the current Society is very bit the favorable so the way to success right so you're talking about like like all these people who come on and will say this is the road mhm so our whole society is biased towards Bas so 9 to5 not 9 to9 which he can pull off not midnight to 6:00 p.m. twice a month which is probably what you can do right so like vatas can work very intensely for a short period of time gafas can work long periods of time but everything is fit the oriented nine to five okay if you look at like income what correlates with the highest income over time it's changing jobs every two to three years so if you stay in a job for 10 years because you're like guffa guffa oriented you're going to get screwed if you change jobs every six months which you feel like because it takes you six months to get bored that's going to screw over vatas so our our society is generally speaking bit the favorable that being said a big part of this stuff if your Vata is constructing a life that suits your DOA so like I told y'all I'm this is just one thing I'm doing today I'm flying out and I'm going to do do another thing and then I'm going to work on a book and then I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do this so what I discovered as Vata is that if I did one thing I would get exhausted get exhausted more quickly than my peers but something miraculous happened if I was doing four things if I was juggling as many balls as I could without dropping a single one my energy levels were through the loot roof and my productivity is inhuman right but it's not inhuman it's just I know how I work and I create an environment that suits me the problem in today's society is we always try to shape the environment I mean sorry we we always try to shape ourselves to the environment right so someone looks at somebody else and says oh that person has a 4.0 GPA and they go to library every day I want to turn into that person I want to be able to go to the library every day so we spend all of this time trying to like instead of discovering who we are we don't even know all we know is that we want to be someone else I want to be more confident I want to have less anxiety I want to find the answers to life I want to help other people right like and and as you look at other people we start adapting their traits instead what we really need to do is understand ourselves and then start to shape the environment around us so that we don't have to adapt anytime you adapt you're not operating 100% because you have a natural inclination right you have a biological like circadian rhythm that makes you a morning person or a night person playing into that and leaning into that is actually how you optimize performance so let's understand a couple things I I think for you it's not which one is right what you've got to understand is there isn't a right there are lots of Rights okay and the Beautiful Thing is your mind is so Dynamic that you can integrate those this is like I don't know if you've ever played a game where you like swap stances right like I'm in like I'm in attack mode I'm in guard mode I'm in heal mode so that's the way you need to think about your life it's not that there's a philosophy that's correct and a philosophy that's wrong it's which philosophy do you want to employ at this moment so you're like you're changeable you're adaptable so stop trying to be one thing because bro how many more books do you need to read how many more successful people well who do you think has the answer because you see the Merit in all of them and you're trying to bring them all together don't try to bring them all together that's his job right he's going to integrate stuff you get to swap just swap baby that's that's fascinating okay I we need to change the topic so it's not so personalized broke for the audience but that is I think a lot of people resonate with that aming but I'd love to talk about relationships okay how long have you been married for 12 years how'd you meet her summer camp and how did you know that she was going to be your wife um I didn't right away so this was it's kind of an interesting story so like you know I had known her for a while because we grew up going to the same summer camp so I knew who she was but I didn't really like know her cuz like in summer camp right like I was in high school she was in high school but I'm 3 years older than her so she's like a freshman and I'm like I'm a junior or senior or something so we were both counselors and then the interesting the funny thing is that I had this was actually the summer I just finished my time in India so I came back and I was going to be a monk and so I I meet this girl who I find very attractive right but like I've decided like I'm going to forsake my life and physical Pleasures are for the week I'm powerful I'm spiritual I'm above that no nut November all day long baby let's go so the interesting thing is that I had struggled a lot with like confidence and shame and failing out of college and all that you asked me like how were you not terrified it's because I didn't have a life worth living you know so I struggled a lot with like women and ID watched all this stuff from pickup artists and stuff like that this was like back when pickup artists were like before red pill became a thing it's like favorite favorite topic I love this I I learned all these like techniques and stuff and tried them but I just didn't understand the fundamentals so I I met this girl and since dating was out of the question I could actually talk to her right you just talk to her because there's nothing nothing to gain nothing to lose so I'm just like hey do you want to like you know you're you're she's coming to we're going to the same college so she's going to be a freshman I'm a junior and I was like I'll show you around right so like I'll I'll take you out you know like you're you're moving there for the first time so like you know I'll show you where the cool stuff is you like are you interested in that she said yes so she insists that I asked her out on a date I was not asking her out on a date I didn't think about it as a date I thought of about it is like I'm 21 she's 18 she's new I know something about this place like let me just do a nice thing um so she insists that we were dating when I didn't think we were dating I was just you know so um but then we started dating and then uh yeah I mean so you asked how how long that's how we met and then eventually you know I decided the celibacy thing wasn't going to work out um and then uh you know found myself with a girlfriend and it was then that was confusing for a while in terms of the whole spirituality thing but then I sort of realized what I shared with youall earlier that a monk is not about having sex or not having sex it's about the attachment to lust or the freedom from lust that makes you a monk and this is why we hear all these stories about monks and Priests and it's not just Christians by the way it's like all the religions right all these people who have enforced celibacy who don't have the spiritual training right are the ones that get into problems and then they start usually it's men putting their dicks where they don't belong so what I sort of realized is that like you know it's about conquering lust not about being celibate so what was the point you realized you didn't want to be a monk anymore in that relationship did you tell her initially like hey I'm going to be a monk yeah I think I I think I told her but she thought we were dating and I think she also knew me quite well and she also I think I don't know that she ever so she's told me many years ago that you know either you're going to end up as a Swami which is like a guru like or or you're going to end up as like something like what I am now so she saw a long time ago that like if I had gone a different route and and you know like I thought about it like and I ultimately decided and even now actively try really hard not to be a spiritual Guru because it's a whole different thing but um so I I think she kind of understood our relationship I think better than I did for a long time and uh and then eventually I kind of came around and then I sort of realized like okay like I don't have to give up being a monk to like be in this relationship so being a monk is more about the identity the values the belief the intent behind certain things rather than the actual action of your well or or why you're doing yeah so I would say technically being a monk is not about that but that's why I use the word sadhak right so sadak is a spiritual aspirant someone who is interested in spiritual growth MH so that's what I would describe myself as not a monk you're a de facto monk yeah so I think the most important part so all monks should be sadhaks and when monks are not sadhaks is when we run into problems that's where all the abuse comes from and the cool thing is you don't have to be a monk to be a sadok MH so when you speak to people do you also speak to people through relationships and why does it seem like right now I guess dating seems like a lot harder than it was maybe 20 years ago so here's the problem with dating in today's world so the first problem is that we were sold a promise that turned out to be a lie so if you think about dating apps what is the premise of a dating app premise of a dating app is that you are a certain kind of person and in your Social Circle you have access to only 40 people and you may not match with them right so there's a perfect person somewhere out there with you but because of the bounds of time and space you will never meet them what we're going to do is we're going to collect your profile and we're going to compare it to billions of other profiles and we will find that perf perfect person and if we combine these two people then it'll make it easier for you to find the perfect person that's the promise of a dating app right Fair yeah what's actually happened is the opposite so now what's happening is that they say they have all these perfect people but people are actually having to go through more and more and more people before they find the right one the exact opposite is happening instead of making the process easier so you'd have to go through 40 people before you find the one in your normal life right so if we go back to like 50 years ago 60 years ago 80 years ago what was the size of Social Circle that you would find your mate probably like somewhere under 300 people for sure but the bit dating apps said we're going to make it easier and what they actually did is make it harder the other problem is I think a lot of dating apps um the information that they collect is something that a lot of people don't understand the information that they collect does not correlate necessarily with relationship success so this is another good example so if you look at like let's say if you look at streaming okay so I can see my viewer count and like streaming platforms will show me analytics why do they show you the analytics that they show you they want more people yeah they want more people to watch so you can improve upon them are the analytics that they show you the ones that you need to be looking at to improve I would say watch avd I would say so so I would say probably not so the analytics that they show you is what they can collect you all get that mhm that's why I like CTR watch time easy to collect does it actually correlate with quality like who the [ __ ] I mean so it correlates with quality but isn't inform you as to what to do so this is a big thing if you think about a dating profile the dating profile has what we can easily collect and what we can easily represent it doesn't contain what creates a successful relationship do you all get that yes right so this is a problem with dating apps is they they have us fill out all this information but a good match has nothing to do with hobbies and interests if youall want to know if you look at the science of connection and even the science of sexual activity there are all kinds of variables there are four variables that correlate with sexual activity none of which you can even detect or matching or connectedness that you don't find on a datting gap what are those variables so number one is a shared emotional experience so there was a study where they took people they had people have a first date the control condition is y'all are going to meet on a bridge made of stone the experimental condition is you're going to meet on a bridge that is a rickety wooden bridge what they found is that the level of attractive the attraction between the two people was way higher on the rickety Bridge so anytime you can create a shared emotional experience between two human beings they bond this is why people fall in love at rehab so like rehab is a place where everyone's like [ __ ] addicted and they're going through some stuff but boy do they fall in love at an alarming rate and if any of y'all have ever worked at rehab or you know people listening you all know exactly what I'm talking about because everyone who is working at the rehab is paranoid about the patience falling in love sneaking out [ __ ] all kinds of stuff we're paranoid about it because it happens all the time shared emotional experience is what creates bonds second thing 90 minutes of activity 90 minutes of exposure is ideal so as you go past 90 minutes attraction tends to wne sexuality tends to wne um third thing is is uh let me think about this what what do you mean about the 90minut thing you're saying first date just in general like if you want to feel connected to someone you're getting to know someone oh it's diminishing returns any minute after yeah so like 90 minutes is like where things start say if you're dating it's optimal an hour and a half and then kind of end it so so there's a group of people out there who have trouble getting second dates or we hear this like feedback a lot which is like there was no spark so what is the science of the spark right because what happens everyone shows up and they're like let's talk about our interests let's talk about our Hobbies doesn't correlate at all with relationships so values over time will be important for long-term relationships and will affect things like conflict so do we want to have kids do we not want to have kids you know do we want to be charitable do we want to accumulate wealth some of that stuff is really important for long-term stuff and this is the other confusing thing that a lot of people don't get is that when they start dating they're planning for a long-term relationship but that's not how we exist as humans we fall in love first so this is the other thing I've seen every successful relationship or almost every successful relationship I've seen as a psychiatrist and a lot of people may think okay like if you're a psychiatrist don't you see bad Rel no like most people actually have healthy relationships not everyone comes for coup's counseling every relationship I've seen that's successful has at least one red flag and even that everyone's like red flag Run for the hills don't run for the hills because when you have a red flag early in the relationship you learn conflict resolution can you manage conflict with this person right so I had red flags early in my relationship my wife had red flags and we worked through those and wow it turns out that if you can resolve your red flags that's actually like a very good prognostic sign for future relationships but we run away from them the other thing that's going on so there's does that explain the 90 minutes so yeah the thing about the 90 minutes is we just know that something about attractiveness and like how much of a spark I feel like diminish that after be mystery like you leave something to be wanted afterwards yeah so I mean I think there's all kinds of mechanisms we don't know why there's kinds of hypothesis but what we do know is that 90 minutes seems to be good so shared emotional experience so I would say like you know go do something scary together go do something it doesn't have to be positive emotion you can actually share negative emotion it's fine this is why romcoms I think tend to work well because we're sort of on the same you know like emotional wavelength um another thing is oh yeah the dating has to be free of hassles so the number one thing not not number one I just say that yeah metaphorically but one of the key things is that when when someone when you ask people like what makes you want to what makes you DTF you know it's like this needs to be hasslefree so another problem that's happening with dating is that like dating is not turning into hasslefree in fact it's becoming the opposite so I'm selecting for my mate now right and in order to get this yall need to pass my tests so dating apps are increasingly becoming about filtering and like interviewing they're not it's not dating anymore it's not like let's see this goes it's like do you match my criteria which by the way is created by the dating apps because they create criteria they ask you what's your criteria if you look at the history of humanity and the whole Animal Kingdom and mammals and all kinds of no one has criteria it's like hey like I'm going to do this dance for you you into it or you're not into it right all that stuff is gone from Modern dating which is why it's so hard because all these criteria and finding the Perfect Mate and planning for your life together from day one like I don't know how to say this but an early relationship can cannot withstand the pressures of a long-term relationship at the first date you can't do that that's why it crumbles so it sounds like the Paradox of choice is making people look for disqualifying factors rather than qualifying factors which used to be the way that people saw dating so there is a paradox of choice and absolutely people are more interested in disqualifying and qualifying but I would say even go one level deeper the fact that you are considering a qualifying factor is not how people fall in love no one is like H do you qualify for me or not is this good enough no everyone's like well [ __ ] this person is wrong for me but you know like this is fun and you do stupid [ __ ] I mean hell my wife started dating someone who was celibate like how much more of a red flag can you get like how stupid like how stupid is that and there's other red flags so like since I failed out of college I like graduated at the age of 23 after 5 years and then what did I do for the next three years I applied to medical school so when I was 25 or 26 years old 26 27 and people asked my girlfriend oh what does your boyfriend do he applies to medical school that's literally what I did I got rejected from 120 times red flag after Red Flag after Red Flag how many people do you know that would encourage their would encourage girlfriend to stay with some dead beat ass guy who's 27 years old has no money no job prospects no job experience and has successfully failed almost failed out of college and has failed to get into medical school for two or three years in a row so what did she see in you she saw me she did not see the attributes she didn't see the dating profile and she was [ __ ] right bro right so like that's the other cool thing is that like she was right and like got rejected from 120 times ended up training and teaching at Harvard medical school right as well as a list of other accolades so like when you see the Human Instead of the attributes of the human is like when you see successful relationships how long does it take for you to see the human I think it depends on the person but I think people know very quickly so let me ask y'all like yall have been together for four and a half years now right as business partners we're not together people know people have question i'mna I'm use this term care I don't mean in a sexual Roman way how long did it take yall to fall in love um I would say for after after we after we had dinner Jack and I got dinner that's off the rip yeah right he fell in love off the r well here's the thing to clarify Jack sent me like eight emails wanting to do any amount of work and I gave him a task to do randomly after the eighth email he nailed the task and as a thank you I said how about this meet me across the street from my office and grab some food he was he was enthusiastic about like I want more uh what else could I do and I was like well I have this idea you down he's like yeah I'm in and so I saw those qualities so it takes him one dinner that's amazing he falls in love quick and hard I take this In fairness I probably was in love with graham before that because I was a fan of his content like it like you know what I mean so like for me he was like an idol of mine he made a measurable difference in my life I got my first credit card because of him I opened up a high yield savings account because of him I did all of these things because of him so I'd say like probably that and then him like finally calling me I remember that was like a huge moment for me you know what I mean like so so that's a red flag so y'all fit the criteria okay so number one is you fell in love he fell in love and he's got a huge ass red flag that you didn't know or maybe didn't think about which is that he was infatuated with you before he met you yeah but but but I think that that helps with dedication that's like hey idea of gr rather grah as a that's why it's a red flag right it's CU you're falling that's what infatuation is it's falling in love with an idea instead of a person but my point to y'all is if you look at successful relationships I'm telling you every relationship including yours has one red flag but I wouldn't see either one of those as red flags I think falling in love with the idea of someone is a red flag and I would say my love grew a lot deeper clearly clearly you didn't see it as red flag right I I wouldn't yeah I mean but now y'all are famous right y'all are like rich and famous and if some I know it sounds like y'all are in relationships romantic relation so like if someone shows up and is like oh my God Jack you are so awesome you've changed my life I love you so much you're so handsome that haircut is so fantastic I can't get enough of you tell me what you want I'll do anything anything for you well if they like the haircut that's a so like then that's a red flot so so right cuz like you kind of know that this person doesn't know the real you and and if she asked you on out on a date would you go I'm assuming you're heterosexual but would you go uh yeah dude dep how attractive I but I see this as like Jack is filtering Jack is himself on the podcast so people that come up to him be like I I Vibe with you I like it let me let me explain he sees this very differently than I do he says I need to pick from a pool of our audience because they know who I am and I see that as because they know who you are but because they similar values and they've watched you enough to be interested in what you have to offer that's what I think not because they know who Jack is but because they Vibe and and they resonate with what Jack says I think I have a little less confidence in that because of the way that I felt towards you when we initially met I was an I I I idolize you and literally I said in the emails I will do anything that you want me to do I think I specified I will pick up Ramsay's cat poop you know what I mean like I will do I think those are the qualities I would I would say the same thing if I looked up to somebody and I want to work with them I'll do any anything there's nothing no task I fell in love with the impact that you made on my life as far as falling in love with you as a character I would say it took me a little bit because you were so different than anybody I've ever met before that I had to understand you before I felt like I could truly love you you know this is healthy masculinity right by the way it was infatuation off the rip and then after understanding who you are and then me coming to terms with wow this is somebody I've never met anybody like this before in my entire life you're so direct it was hard for me to because I've never been in like in a relationship like that where some people were so upfront um and then finally once I was like this is just who he is cuz I saw you treat other people like that very upfront very blunt then I had to come to terms with okay do can I accept this person for them in their entirety or can I not and I said absolute F yes without a doubt I can and I think that's when I fell in love with you so let's understand a couple things first of all you were in love with him before you even met him you were infatuated by him but once you got to know the real him oh my God it was so much much better and you fell so much more in love and if we look at this right here right so this is I know we're not talking about a sexual or romantic relationship but these qualities you will never find on a dating app yall get this like listen to the way that yall are talking about each other the way that you get to know each other this is how a real bond forms but this but the same thing that Jack met me could be how Jack meets significant other that's my point that's exactly my point right so and you're asking what's wrong with dating the thing is on a dating app do you get that the information on a dating app does not touch what we heard here today and I don't even think you guys understand what we heard here today because y'all were participating but your your listeners like holy [ __ ] listening to y'all talk about each other is glorious it gives me Faith in humanity and I think that the infatuation that I had with graham off the rip was not enough to have a lifelong relationship with him and once that started to diminish and I saw these other parts of his character that I was not used to I had to then make that decision am I in with this person or am I not and so that's completely consistent with I mean I I I know that everyone's meing about this but like for real that's completely consistent with what I'm saying about relation like romantic relationships too it can start with a red flag of infatuation but whether it withstands the test of time a relationship must grow and evolve and that's the other problem with dating apps is everyone's looking for a finished product so what people don't understand is I'm trying to find the right person for a relationship that is impossible a relationship is created by two human beings it is it is not something that you fit someone into you all get that cuz it's like organic and just if we listen to y'all's relationship right and you can think about the Romantic relationships you've had you can even think about parental relationships all relationships grow and evolve over time and we don't really think about that at dating apps we're looking for a finished product that will slot into my life and even if you find someone who says they are willing to slot into your life you will chances are you will fall out of love with them over some amount of time because they're not exciting you in some way right so sometimes like people will find exactly what they're looking for and sometimes it's great and sometimes it's not but for most of the people that I've talked to who have found successful relationships over dating apps it's like yeah there was enough to get in the door and what I discovered was so far beyond what the app showed me because there's a fundamental data analytics problem which is that dating apps cannot collect or share the actual information that correlates with a successful relationship and that even is even more complex because what a successful relationship requires evolves over time relationships need I work with my wife she's CEO she's my boss right that sounds very awkward but it works really well we had kids together me and her dating a celibate Monk Is version 1.0 right and then it's like not celibate person and it's loser that's a different relationship then it's medical student then it's like faculty at Harvard Medical School now it's influencer then she's my boss there's so many different relationships there that a real relationship is not something that you can capture on a piece of something and they evolve and grow over time but a good barometer for the health or success predictive success of a relationship would be those four things that you shared yeah so I don't think I shared all four so uh connectedness um sorry um 90 minutes mhm um shared emotional experience free of daily hassles and I'm forgetting what the fourth thing is but there's a fourth and then what about going from a healthy relationship then to a healthy marriage keeping the excitement keeping the spark keeping the interest they take it you can't limit it to 90 minutes anymore um so it's so I'll answer this question I'm temped to answer the question same way I answer the last one is how do y'all keep it fresh um so now we come full circle to thric sex no but um which because it's not sexual in nature yall can do and it's not it's no homo I swear no okay but let's let's understand a couple things okay so the first thing is to understand that a relationship evolves over time which we've already talked about but the second thing the most important thing that I think transitions into marriage I don't know if it's necessarily marriage or like from the short-term to the long-term relationship is that early on you have so much neurochemistry working in your favor so you're excited by this person there's novelty there's attractiveness the sex is new we sort of know that in a default State the amount of arousal that you feel with a new partner is greater than what you feel with like a partner over time that's in the default State now a lot of people will interpret this as like this is a biological truth the core feature of human beings that a lot of people who are like this is the biological truth the core feature of human beings is that we are not bound by our biology we're the only species on the planet planet that does things that are biologically we we're not we have Consciousness and we have the ability to shape and change our internal environment now it's possible animals can do this but we don't have really any evidence of that we have some evidence of maybe self-awareness but like a dog can't wake up one day and decide like I no longer want to eat this thing like they're just not capable of that they can be trained but that internal process isn't possible so we're not defined by our biology as human beings and celibacy is a great example of that right so like people will be willfully celibate and it's actually like works so I think the biggest thing that is required is you have to understand that when you first start dating someone things are going to be easy because the neurochemistry isn't in your favor you're going to feel hornier you're going to feel more excited you're learning about this person there's going to be a lot of stuff that's working for you so the factors work for you and work for the relationship over time what starts to happen is you have to start working you have to start doing the work so over time what what feels natural right when youall got together and the first time you all had dinner and it was like oh my God this is so natural and like this is a fit that was made in heaven and over time that wears out right and then you all have to start putting work into maintaining the relationship so I think this is where a lot of people fall short is that relationship feels easy at the beginning and then people will break up because it's starting to feel hard this used to be so easy and that's what happens to everybody it gets harder for everyone all the time it's the people who recognize this is getting hard and this requires my effort and now I'm going to have to put intention into it and once they solve those problems that actually makes the relationship stronger so when when things get tough like some people are like this is not what I signed up for because it's very different from what it was early right early on you've got your honeymoon phase and you're willing to overlook all the red flags but at some point case in point of celibacy right there was a red flag there was also failure on my part a second red flag but at some point those things have to change and I think the biggest uh problem that I see in modern relationships is this attitude that like I don't have to be what someone else wants me to be like I am perfect the way that I am if you don't if if you don't if you can't accept me at my worst you don't accept you don't deserve me at my best so there's like this weird attitude of like Independence and radical acceptance which I think leads to toxicity and it's like yeah sorry like this is just the way I am screw you if you don't like it you can leave but where do you find the balance in that between accepting a person for who they are and saying ah this is just me versus knowing if that's something you need to work on so it's beautiful because I don't think you need balance I think what you need is both sure so let's understand something about acceptance so people will say like you know so acceptance is accepting where you are and growth is about where you want to go so the pitfalls here are that some people don't actually accept their partner so based on so a simple example is like let's say like body count okay so whether it's high body count or low body count like I don't care I'm not placing a value judge but some people will say you know you've had like so this is especially true of like men who have fewer sexual partners and especially substantially fewer sexual partners than uh their female Partners so they will feel insecure about it and they won't be able to accept so there's some kind of like even though they're dating they're saying accepting things internally they don't accept and internally they feel resentment they feel shame they feel some amount of like you know like I should have been better or whatever I I don't know whatever so if you kind of look at that in that moment this partner even you're dating this person you're not accepting them now that's one thing but change over time doesn't mean static in fact it's the opposite so if I'm working with someone who is let's say an alcoholic the first step to change is acceptance as long as you're in denial you can't accept as long as you're in denial you can't grow it all right so with alcoholic synonymous it's like hi my name is Alo I'm an alcoholic they start with acceptance so I don't think that it's a balance between the two I think one actually leads to the other the problem is that we've started to think about acceptance as like cart blanch to do whatever you want that's not what acceptance is acceptance is acknowledgement of the present circumstances and then once you acknowledge what the present circumstances are like in my case like I realized like holy [ __ ] this girl is not giving up on me she deserves better right and there's two things that can happen when a dude has that thought number one is oh my God you're going to leave me right you're going to leave me and you're going to find someone better because you deserve better and you don't deserve me the second is I'm going to become better I'm going to become what you deserve and it's when people start doing that when both parties do that in the relationship I'm going to be what you deserve I'm going to grow for the sake of this relationship I'm going to get better it's not accept me at my wor uh if you can't accept me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best it's that I'm grateful that you're accepting me at my worst and you deserve nothing less than the best 24/7 and that's what I'm moving towards but you cannot do that unless you accept that there's a part of you that's shitty here and now if we were to draft up a framework for someone to live like the most meaningful fulfilling possible life now I know probably Frameworks are the most productive thing because you can't really apply that to everybody um let's just say this is what my take is and I want to hear what your thoughts are on it there are three things which would be a consistent sleep schedule diet and exercise I think those three things are extremely important like those are the things that you need to nail right and then after that I think that you can then go on to like more non-physical things such as like practicing acceptance practicing surrender and relinquishing desire right and then from there potentially going on to the next thing which would be crafting your environment to be conducive uh or conductive or whatever for who you are like the things that you like we discussed earlier in this conversation would you agree with that in those steps or would you say that's a little bit too um rid I don't agree with those steps and in a few moments I think you're not going to agree with them either so bear with me okay so you said what's the foundation of your thing I would say physical health so like exercising uh getting a consistent sleep schedule and proper nutrition okay and then what's step two step two would then be the non-physical things uh which I think could reasonably follow getting the the foundation right which would be uh relinquishing desire relinquishing desire practicing surrender so let's say let's take a case okay yeah so and I apologize if my answer was arrogant but so let's say that I have trouble sleeping mhm how do I take care how do I get a consistent sleep schedule how do I get a consistent diet and how do I get consistent exercise well the reasonable answer would be you probably need to exercise more throughout the day to make yourself tired enough to go to bed at night yeah but how do I do that exercise be the other pillar so be like I know but how do I get myself so like most people don't exercise regularly don't sleep a full night and don't eat a healthy oh so you're saying how do you get the motivation to start going yeah right so you're saying those found how is that Foundation built because we're presuming that it's not built right so people aren't do this interesting okay so I have heard plenty of different answers to such a question which I think the most reasonable one would be you just kind of just have to do it and then doing it is hard just have to do it is not a how how do I do it how do you go to sleep at a regular time and how do you exercise so you gave me a how for sleep so you gave me a how for the sleep is the exercise regularly right setting standards for yourself so I a lot of people set standards for myself [ __ ] I set standards but they don't follow them why not probably because they have a history of not following them okay so where does it start when the consequence of not following your standards does not uh properly is not enough to deter you from not following your standards in the first place what is the subjective experience of that person so let me put it a different way why doesn't someone eat healthy let's say I go out to a restaurant I'm like like I should order a salad but instead I get a burger right I think a lot of it has to do with the consequences not being enough okay so but then the consequences aren't enough right so the consequences don't change right so how am I going to change that you can impose consequ your own consequences right but then I guess how can you follow that yeah so which part of me imposes consequences the thinking brain so here's the crazy thing relinquishing desire is not what comes after exercise relinquishing Des is literally what is required for exercise okay I don't want to exercise I want to sit at home and play video games conquering that desire is literally how you get to the gym I don't want to go to bed conquering that desire is how you go to bed okay to use your own philosophy against you now how would you then get the what tools do you use in order to relinquish desire it's starts with awareness okay how how do you become aware you pay attention how do you pay attention close your eyes okay no right now what are you aware of your voice okay I would say my hungry stomach I would say my knee bouncing that's how you do it okay so I have become aware Graham you do this Too Close Your Eyes what do you have my eyes been closed okay what else uh your voice me sitting in the chair um paranoia about the time um that's what I'm aware of okay so now we are aware so I want youall to notice something open your eyes so what happened to the things that Graham was aware of over the stretch of the awareness exercise so what happened is he became aware of more and more things and also subtle and subtler things so it started with the physical it became the mental and then if he kept on noticing that awareness he could even discover the origins of the paranoia he could discover all kinds of things as he just increases his awareness so don't be distracted no to give yourself time to yeah I think both of those are true right so don't be distracted what I would say is don't be distracted is hard because you don't control your distraction what you control is your intention towards awareness interesting okay right okay so it was kind of like a little bit of like a conscious like meditative State a little bit in a sense right awareness awareness Consciousness okay now you said actually on something that it doesn't matter if you are meditating all of the time it matters the quality of the not meditating but let's say just say awareness right the quality of the awareness how do you increase the quality of your awareness so I think the biggest mistake that people make with not increasing the quality of their awareness is that they follow a metric for meditation a so they say I'm going to meditate for 15 minutes I'm going to install an app on my phone I'm going to set my timer I'm going to force myself to sit down and meditate which means I'm going to observe my breath but what they're doing is checking a box they're actually fulfilling a set of external conditions which is closing my eyes using the timer this is meditation meditation is not that meditation is awareness so literally it is being aware right so what are you aware of you can start with that question and this is why we have techniques right so certain techniques will so I'll give you all like this technique is going to work maybe better for you than for you but if you chant oh you know how to chant Oh no just oh okay that so om is chanted very simply okay so I'm going to give you meditation technique is that cool yeah okay so m is not M it's a o and so all it is is your mouth fully open ah and then transition open it as big as you can uh and then transition slowly to closed perfect that is literally what m is and this is why people are confused because they think om is om it's not many people if you look at the more authentic religious Traditions they will have Au M so if you chant oh you chant oh seven times and I want you to notice where you feel vibration in your body am I supposed to do this right now no not just in the future right so people can do this at home right it's really simple because you know how to chantome it's perfect just start with your mouth open EX and then close your mouth gradually over time and you're done and where do I feel vibrations where do you feel vibrations right okay so for someone who's a Vata like you you're curious you want answers right so if I give you an answer what are you going to do with it probably test it and question it and right or reject it or compare it you're going to site something else but what about this but what about this but what about this that [ __ ] ain't going to work for you I can give you all the answers it's not going to be enough you'll enjoy it intellectually but it's not going to change no it's not yeah that's funny yeah you'll you'll get it's intellectual masturbation is what it is it's like it's feels good but it is it really is yeah but no one's going to get pregnant this way right we really want to change so then what I'm going to do is I'm going to tell you and then if you're motivated you can do it if you're not motivated you don't have to do it if you're not motivated you can go read a thousand books on motivation and find your motivation you can do whatever the [ __ ] you want with it if you do this practice and You observe where the vibration is you will discover something and this is how we cultivate awareness so depending on the person depending on their temperament depending on their cognition depending on their personality this is the other problem with meditation is that everyone teaches the same thing because there was a master and how did the master come up with the technique the master came up with the technique because he understood the stuff or she understood the stuff and she individualized particular techniques for their disciples and then what happens is the disciples learn the technique and they mechanically teach it which is why everyone is doing mindfulness and no one is getting enlightened so what you do to increase your awareness is just do this just observe and as curiosity for you will help because now you're looking for something and if I give you something to look for then your mind is going to be focused okay so we have to practice medit awareness via probably meditation that's the simplest way the best way but if it doesn't work for you you don't have to do it that way there's awareness in other ways like when you get into that flow State sure uh yeah okay right okay uh and then that is what could then spur hopefully like you you realize internally that certain things would be better for you to do and then you don't have the desire to continue doing the things that are negative beautiful okay right and how did you formulate that because you've done it you realized that you used to have desires that controlled you and then you had an internal Revelation that changed your behavior it's not willpower it's understanding and that is why you ask people questions right yes so another good example of awareness raising is psychotherapy MH right so we're asking questions in a particular way that raise raes someone's awareness like if you're working with a narcissist and they don't think they're not aware of other people's internal emotional state so by helping them become aware of that then they're like oh wow like this is crazy like we can cure narcissism like we can cure it it's crazy permanently absolutely is it just giving them a set of tools I thought they were fully atrophied that those parts of their brain like you cannot connect those synapses no no no no no no no so if you look at something like borderline personality disorder which I think is very similar to narcissism um narcissism is more common in men borderline personality disorder is more common in women I want to say 95 to 99% of women with borderline personality disorder are cured 16 years after diagnosis 50% two years after by what real life or by Psychotherapy both so a lot of people no longer qualify because as they there's all kinds of nuances to that so maybe the nature of the the illness in the first place is that it's transitory right it's not that it's Transit it's personality right so and does personality change over time yeah 100% that's it can you cure depression the scientific answer is probably not and we don't know my instinct is absolutely for 51 plus percent of people is what what my gut tells me I tend to that so my clinical experience and that's based on clinical experience so what I mean by that is how many people have walked into my office qualifying for a mood disorder like major depressive disorder and how many of them after completing treatment are sustainably able to not qualify for that disorder without with without ongoing support so if they complete a course of psychotherapy for like two years let's say or medication or whatever and then like five years later if you measure them do they have any depressive episodes I would say 51% of people 51 plus percent of people don't and even if you look at the data on depression the majority of people who have major depressive disorder I think the not the majority but the plurality of them have only one hearing him debate horos on this would be insane oh man if we could who's rosi he's the guy that's coming on Alex rosi he is a amazing thank you so much really appreciate it you want to say where people could find you sure besides the description um I'm Dr k so I run an organization called healthy gamer HG healthy gamer. our YouTube channel is healthygamergg I think those are like the best places to find us we're on all the platforms but YouTube twitch and website this archaic thing thank You' all so much all links down below thank you guys so much for watching thank you for coming on and making this trip out here that means a lot I wish we had an extra hour I wish we had extra several hours you guys want to see another one just comment down below comment down below we'll make it happen the very end just let us know we read all the comments and I mean we do a part two yeah and depending on what y'all want for part two so the other thing I'll ask y'all to comment is if y'all want to yall want to go more solo and y'all want to dive in we can do that but that I'll leave up to youall sounds good thank you guys till next time