Harvard Nutritional Psychiatrist Shares the Key Foods for Incredible Mental Health | Dr. Uma Naidoo

But, gluten had an association with elevated anxiety, as did sugar, as did sweetness. Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Health Theory. I am here with Dr. Uma Naidoo. I am so excited to have you. I am thrilled by the very notion of what you do, which is nutritional psychiatry, which I didn't know existed, but I'm excited that it does. Um, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Tom. I'm so excited to be here and talk to you. Yeah, this this one really is, um, something that I'm doing backflips for. When I started, I was doing all mindset stuff, and, um, I started doing Health Theory, this show, and people were like, "Why is the mindset guy talking about health?" And my thing is, if you don't understand that the brain and the body are connected, then you are in for a world of hurt. You've got to really understand how to how to make those work. You're a trained psychiatrist. When did you come along to the nutritional element, and what exactly is nutritional psychiatry? Sure. So, the way that I came to this was that I grew up in a family that was all about love and food, and and nurturance, and a lot of cooking. And so, I was always, you know, fond of food, and wanted to know more. And but it was also a family of physicians, so I knew I was headed to medical school, and, um, I always just wanted to know more about food. And when I began to have, uh, conversations with patients in residency, so I sort of brought or tapped into my background and really raised in a household where there was meditation, mindfulness practice, understanding of the mind-body connection, um, Ayurvedic uh, principles. And I didn't use those specifically, but I really brought that mindset to practicing with my patients. And I began to say things to them, like, well, if you're taking this medication, are you doing any form of exercise? Are you doing any kind of movement? What are you doing? What are you eating? And it it grew. The interest grew and I began to have more of that conversation. So that existed in the way that I was practicing. But separate to that, my my my passion trip was to culinary school. That was just because I went, you know, because Julia Child is my food hero and I wanted to be like her. So I I wanted to learn more and that kind of fitted together in a cool way with everything else. Yeah, it's the I think your book in some other countries is called the food mood connection. Exactly. Yes. It's called the food mood connection in in the UK and in a few other countries. That that to me is so important for people to understand. You know, we've got obviously depression and anxiety have been skyrocketing for decades and originally it was like a question of, well, are we just getting better at diagnosing it, but it really hasn't changed. It it seems like it really is going crazy and what I loved about your book is that you're you're going through some of the disorders that you would normally hear a psychiatrist speak about um that's normally, you know, depression, anxiety, PTSD, OCD. I mean, just like the list goes on and on. Um and normally it would just always be medication. And so the fact that you give like really specific prescriptions for things you can eat or avoid eating, um Yes. that's really really powerful. Um So when we talk about this stuff beginning to um skyrocket, let's get right into specifically with anxiety. So I suffered from debilitating anxiety at one point in my life. Unfortunately, uh for as much as I should have recognized there was probably a huge dietary component, I came to that very late. Um so I I understand how brutal um generalized anxiety can be. Um what are some of the major triggers? And And how do we begin unwinding that? Sure. So, I think that for anxiety, one of the things I often start talking to people about is the foods to avoid. Generally, I talk about a whole foods diet and ask people to incorporate foods rather than give them up. But, in anxiety, we notice there's a correlation with gluten. So, you know, it's always about the source of source of the gluten you have. If you're having a shelf-stable loaf of bread from the supermarket that sits on your counter for 3 weeks and looks perfect, you have to ask yourself that's not that's not the bread we're speaking of here. But, gluten had an association with elevated anxiety as did sugar as did sweetness. Can we get into the biomechanism? Like, what what is going on? Why are the is is everything going to come down to the epithelial lining of the gut and this is a leaky gut problem or is it something else? You know, the mechanisms tend to differ and we go through that in the different chapters of the book, but the I think that the that the overall major mechanism that runs through every single diagnosis is the gut-brain axis. The preponderance of inflammation that these uh these substances drive like sugar. Um and as the leaky gut and the intestinal permeability gets set up, there's also the dysbiosis that is happening because the bugs are just not getting the right foods that they need to thrive. So, you have dysbiosis being set up. Then, they're not able to form things like the short-chain fatty acids that they need and the butyrates to to really help the gut thrive. So, so sugar's one of them. Artificial sweeteners is another. Stevia was found to have even though stevia and erythritol, if you are going to use a sweetener separate to all of this, may be better options, but in anxiety, it was not. Um processed vegetable oils. I had individuals fast before we move off of artificial sweeteners? So, I have a feeling that a big driver for my anxiety was artificial sweeteners. I was drinking uh three large Monsters a day plus two or three diet Cokes. Um and it helped me get lean. It was amazing because it filled me up, the carbonation and the sweetness, and it it allowed me to intake a lot less calories. Um but I think that was a a big part of it. What is going on? What is it about either those specifically diet sodas or artificial sweeteners in general is what what is the sort of dysbiotic response? Sure. So So, the one of one of the things is that there's an elevation in the level of sweetness. So, a tiny packet of a sweetener is super sweet. So, in one way, it's impacting your brain because you are now expecting this super sweet flavor. Then, the actual substances are gut disruptors. And the third mechanism is that they are not And that's why I mentioned stevia and erythritol. They have a better mechanism related to insulin. And So So, in addition to the brain problems that things like artificial sweeteners set up for us by driving anxiety, they disrupt the gut and our brain gets used to this hyper hyper sweetened taste. Because all of my patients will say that, you know, they you know, you want me to you want me you talking to me about not having beverages. So, I'm going to have the diet soda of some kind. But what noticed is that sometimes they want they crave more sweet um sweet foods. And often those foods are carbohydrates. So, we talk about almost trying to either heal your gut or help your gut along so that the bugs in your gut are working for you and not against you. And you know, sugar basically sweetness just just are doing the opposite of what we need them to do. Sugar, on the other hand, has an actual there's actually actual correlation between depression um several trials linking depression and sugar intake, the added sugars. And, also related to the level of anxiety. So, you know, sugar works in slightly different way in the sense that initially, you might have this, you know, good feeling. Someone has a bowl of ice cream and like, "I can't understand why my doctor tells me not to eat this. I feel good. What's wrong with her, you know?" But, the truth is that, you know, with time, what happens is that if it affects you your neurons. You know, the sugar is not good for us. It may make you feel emotionally good in the moment, but it's really not good in the longer term. So, you know, I think what I what I feel people have not made the leap to, Tom, is that we talk about um with nutritionists and we talk to our doctors about, you know, I have a family history of diabetes, how should I be eating? But, we don't link use of nutrients of food with our emotions. And, I do think that that's that's the gap that I'm hoping to fill with this book and sharing the information about the stuff to avoid. Okay, so in our avoid list that we just went through um specifically as it relates to anxiety and a little bit depression, but we had um gluten can be problematic. We've got um artificial sweeteners. We've got sugar. Um What are there other sort of major things or are those like our big to avoid this? That processed vegetable uh for anxiety processed vegetable oils is the other one. Okay, so um give me an example of where that hides. I think people will be surprised how many things have that. Exactly. So, you know, it might be that a restaurant look they they tend to be oils that are less expensive. So, in the restaurant industry and in fast food chains, these are the oils that that they use and reuse. And, it sets up huge level of inflammation in the body because what changes is it flips the ratio of our omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids. And this is not good for us because what that does is drives inflammation in the body. Here's a great example. I have a few clients who travel a lot for work. And contrary to what you might think, during during the pandemic they started to have a lower level of anxiety. And we noticed this specifically and I It was puzzling me at first and then I realized, you know, just taking more and more information and asking them, I realized that they were eating more meals at home. So even though they had been trying to pursue a healthy diet following the guidelines and they had had an improvement in in anxiety, they had a significant improvement by eating meals at home because they know, you know, the oils I'm going to suggest to them are extra virgin olive oil, you know, avocado oil. And one of the things that people don't realize that is super helpful in conditions like anxiety is to up your fiber game. Um because fiber fiber-rich foods break down in your body. I mean, I don't need to tell you this stuff. Break down, you know, in a more complex way and more slowly. So you don't have, you know, think of the the sugary donut. And you know, people have the sugar crash and they first have a sugar high then they have a sugar crash. It's all about insulin bouncing all over the place. When you include simple things like having more fiber, your your insulin is even, your blood sugar is even. So people who have anxiety don't have these highs and lows. Other things about anxiety are things we we know caffeine can drive anxiety, but it's the amount of caffeine, it's how your body tolerates it. It's also caffeine withdrawal. I've had people present with extremes of anxiety because they come in saying, "Doctor, I'm giving up caffeine." And then they have caffeine withdrawal and they're super anxious. Hydration, you know, alcohol, someone imbibes a little bit too much alcohol on a holiday weekend and the next day is someone dehydrated can present with severe anxiety. Hypoglycemia is another one just, you know, someone who recently in my practice was trying out type of fast. I'm not against the type of fasting. I think it's always has to be discussed with their doctors. But didn't realize that they hit a very low blood sugar level. So, they were hypoglycemic and had panic attacks. So, it's you know, it's all it of you know, we our physiology is all interrelated. You can't do one thing without affecting something else. Why would being hypoglycemic put you into a panic attack? Is it So, when when I was really debilitated by anxiety, one thing that I found was if I was cold, then my anxiety would spike hard because the physiological response to being cold and being anxious for me are almost identical. Absolutely. and so, it it almost put it on my mind, if that makes sense. And so, my brain just didn't differentiate between I'm cold or I'm anxious. Um That's a great example actually because with hypoglycemia, people haven't had they've skipped a meal or they haven't eaten or something has happened and they dropped their blood sugar. And one of the symptoms of hypoglycemia is sort of feeling nervous or jittery because actually your body is craving, it needs to be fed. Um And what happens is that I've just seen people, you know, have this spike of anxiety or panic and and what I've said to them is, you know, are you eating regular meals? You know, you may be taking other medications for other conditions. And and exactly what are you doing? Are you drinking enough water? And it's a similar it's I love the example you gave because it's a similar type of thing. The body perceives it in a certain way and the way that the brain interprets that is, I'm feeling anxious. I'm feeling anxious. But actually what the body is asking for is to be fed, you know, that that that we that we need a nutrient. So, Yeah. Ooh, okay. So, this stuff all gets super super complicated. But when I I about let's let's pretend for a minute that our audience is more they're like you they are diet agnostic so they just want the best. Um Okay. when you were describing um hypoglycemia as being a problem I thought okay cool then would a ketogenic diet which I'll call sort of the king of of flatline where your just whole relationship to food is different. I your relationship to hunger is different because you don't go on that wild ride because your body just dips into stored fat and so you feel pretty even keel all the time. Um is that the most uh anti-anxiety diet or is there something even better? I don't know if there's something even better but what I will say is some studies that are more recent have shown a correlation between keto ketogenic diets and improved anxiety. So I think that if someone is following that diet and it helps the anxiety and they're otherwise you know under the care of a doctor and why do I say that? Because you know simple things that we tell people to eat like grapefruit can interact with multiple medications through liver enzymes. So I'm not saying that glibly to say oh you should always talk to your doctor. I am saying if you're if you're assuming a different diet and you're changing things up you know just run things by someone who knows your overall conditions, your medical history and what you might be taking. But there's been some good evidence so I would say if it's working for someone and they've noticed a lowering of anxiety definitely try it out and have your doctor review the literature with you. Okay. Um you you go through in the book a lot of different diseases and I'm going to jump a little bit out of order cuz I'm absolutely terrified of running out of time with you because you've got so much great information. Um I want to talk about dementia and the mind diet and what we can do to avoid um brain fog, cognitive decline like you know if and I'll I'll speak for myself here. I very much want to stay crazy sharp until the day I die. Uh so what would that sort of ideal cognitively optimized diet look like? Okay, great. So, so, um, things that I like people to embrace are starting starting with uh, turmeric with black pepper. Um, it's a spice that not only, uh, hits the high notes in several conditions, there's a definite association with cognition. So, if it's something you cook with or not, uh, quarter tea at least a quarter teaspoon a day with a pinch of black pepper to pain activates the curcumin, makes it more viable by very huge percent to both the body and the brain. Tip right there. And for those people who don't, um, cook with it, add it to a soup or smoothie or a tea, these are good options for you. Um, it turns out that the polyphenols in olive oil became, um, uh, more available when they were used in a sofrito preparation. So, different cultures have different, What's sofrito? What's that? Sofrito. Sofrito is the base for it could be the base for a gumbo, it could be the base but it's basically onions, um, garlic, some cultures have chili pepper. Um, it's different varieties of that. But a particular study showed that, um, this reaction made the polyphenols more available. So, I say, you know, if you're going to cook, use the use the good olive oil, use that gentle simmer simmering temperature, you know, use those ingredients because onions, garlic, they they are great, um, prebiotic foods. Good for your gut. Feed the good bacteria, why not throw them in? Um, and then, you know, there are also other spices, um, things like cinnamon, saffron, rosemary, ginger, and sage that had, uh, some good results in good data in association with just protecting cognition. Coffee, the the suggestion was have coffee but have, you know, less than 400 mg a day because depending on the size of your cup that could be about two to three cups. Have them early in the day. Alcohol was not an entirely negative one, but at the same time it's all about things in moderation. And if I if someone is drinking alcohol, I generally suggest red wine because of the reserve resveratrol. Now, do you think there's a hormetic effect to alcohol? To me, alcohol is So, um correct me if I'm wrong, this is my understanding. So, everyone's going to say that there's three macronutrients, the fourth being alcohol. Um and if if you look at the order in which the body burns them, it will prioritize alcohol. Now, my gut instinct is that it's prioritizing alcohol because it's a toxin. So, why would there be anything other than a hormetic effect? Meaning, for anybody that's never heard that term, um that a little bit of bad actually gets your body to sort of um push back against it, become more robust and stronger. So, it it is a toxin, but in a small enough amount it actually can be beneficial. Think of working out. I think that's a great point. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I mean, I think it could well be that I I What the studies basically showed was that it's not that you have to exclude alcohol, it's about moderation and it's the type of alcohol. And what I always say, whether it's whether it's this area of the book or anywhere else, everything in moderation. And why do I say that, Tom? Because most individuals who come to my practice are drinking some form of alcohol. So, I would rather work with them to use that in moderation and share tips like, you know, "Hey, if you like cocktails, you're drinking a bunch of sugar cuz this is what simple syrup is, it's sugar. So, here's some tips about, you know, making that a healthier version, drinking less of it, and giving them tips to cope with it." Because that's in my practice for almost two decades now, what I find is trying to say to people, "Don't do something" is is just behavioral psychology has taught us that's not the way to go. So, it's about giving people some healthy options within what they're doing, and then and over time, when they see the benefit of something, they start to either taper back or change the habit. That's very different from someone who's struggling with alcohol, obviously. But, you know, you also asked me about brain fog, and this is where the antioxidant luteolin, which foods came in, and and there were studies that showed that um if you incorporate juniper berries, fresh peppermint, sage, thyme, um certain types of hot and sweet peppers, these apparently are all luteolin-rich foods. Um celery seeds, parsley, artichokes, and dried Mexican oregano, they actually helped with the brain fog. So, you know, I say to people, if you're struggling with that, you want to kind of sharpen things up, start to in Spices you'll find throughout the book. And one of the reasons they're one of my favorite things is that they last a long time, they're salt-free, sugar-free, calorie-free, cuz I'm not suggesting a mix that has added sodium in it, but they they hit the nail on the head on on lots of different conditions, and so it's worth stocking up on those, and it turns out that for brain fog, they can certain spices can be pretty useful. Um what is your take on sodium? Our body needs sodium. So, I think that we just have to be careful about the amount that we consume and where we consume it from. So, I think that being aware of the added sodium in processed foods, um you know, frozen vegetables can be a great option for people inexpensive, so that they get their vegetable boost, but if it has a sauce or an added sodium or, you know, that the the added ingredients are what throw it off. So, our body needs sodium, but it's it's the amount of sodium that we consume in our diets that's usually too high. No, I I'm actually completely unaware, but are there studies that um show what happens as you increase your sodium intake? Cuz obviously, you hear a lot about blood pressure, um but I've heard that that there's like complexity there that people maybe aren't acknowledging, but it's not an area that I'm super knowledgeable about, but Mhm. the number of times that I've sort of encountered sodium in the literature, I've walked away going it's really like not that big of a deal, to be honest, but Right. if I'm crazy, now is the time to tell me because I I eat the most salt. I think you'd be horrified. I You know, a lot of people like salty food. And again, it comes down to, you know, about a month ago I was treating a woman who'd come in to see me for consult, and she brought her adult daughter along with her. And both they each had opposite reactions to the same healthy food. And, you know, this speaks to uniqueness of our bodies and our microbiome, which is mostly unique. So, I'm It would be take a lot to shock me. I've You know, I've been hardened by years of practice, but but I think it really boils down to someone's individual constitution. If if your blood pressure is fine, if you are otherwise healthy, if, you know, your blood tests are okay, and your doctor's not yelling at you for something, you know, I think I think that that that's what it is. You know, is it good or bad? Probably not great, but you know, is it having any deleterious consequences on your body? It doesn't seem like you look great. But again, it it comes back to um, you know, a person following some guidelines, and that's really what the book is about. It's It's not for extremes, and it's really meant to for someone to pick up, whether it's a therapist, you know, sharing it with her client, um, his his or her client, or person just saying, "Listen, I want to be healthy. I'm really struggling during the pandemic. My anxiety is through the roof. I've never had problems before. Um, you know, what what can I do?" Something Dietary adjustments, as as you know from your journey, you know, you can start immediately. You can start making changes. And that I feel, is empowering for people um for two reasons. When a doctor says to you, "Here, take this prescription," as I have done as well, um it it's it's disempowering to someone. You know, you're being told you have to do this, and uh you have this symptom, and this is what will make you better. I think that that that nutrition and food flips that ratio, and puts it puts a person into the driver's seat of deciding, "Hey, I can make the choice to go to fast foods today, and start to impact my gut bacteria, which we know will change within 24 hours. Or I can say, "I'm going to aim for that healthy salad. I'm going to build it up the way that, you know, um I it was suggested to me. I'm going to add in those lean proteins. I'm going to add in as many colors of the rainbows I can to bring back healthy phytonutrients and antioxidants for my brain, and I'm going to go in that direction." And a person can feel empowered to make that decision. Now, they they still may choose the chips, the ice cream, and the fast foods, but that being said, that that's going to it's going to have the effects down the road. All right, that that's an amazing example. And so, I want to dive into that so people can take all the things you've said now and put into how to make that choice in an informed way. So, we'll get to the salad in a minute cuz I really want to hear you said to build it up in the way that I was instructed to do. So, I want to know more about what that is cuz I the number of people I watch build a salad, and I think you might as well go have a Twinkie, um is is a lot. Uh but so, fast food, I'm going to break down why I think you would say fast food is bad, and then you tell me if this is what you mean. So, in in the beginning you laid out four things that people really want to avoid, and fast food has them all. Um so, So, one I've heard you talk about, which I didn't even know, is that french fries at most fast food restaurants contain sugar. They contain sugar. You don't taste it, but the Exactly. The the research and development I was pretty shocked when I came across this years ago. But the research and development is is immense for to to produce hyper palatable foods. And by that I mean this is the reason found that you can't, you know, at the drive-thru you want the bigger size and when you get the bigger size of the fries, you want to eat all of them. Um you know, you don't taste the sugar but it makes the it enhances the flavor and it makes those foods hyper palatable. So, you know, sugar is a big one and my my concept of conveying that is eat the orange, skip the strawberry orange juice and and that's because people think, "Oh, my doctor said oranges are good, vitamin C." And the labels on the strawberry orange juice say that but it's, you know, another helpful thing is 4 g of sugar is 1 tsp cuz I've I've said before that uh uh labels in the United States are in grams but we cook all our recipes are standardized to ounces and pounds. So, people don't know how much sugar there is. What was 4 g mean? So, having that simple um uh understanding of of how to break it down means that if they get a 4-oz um yogurt but it's fruited and it has 24 g of sugar, well, would you actually be adding that number of teaspoons to, you know, plain yogurt if if that's something that you eat because it certainly the ones with active cultures and well-sourced grass-fed milk um dairy yogurts are definitely something if you eat dairy you can um you can try. But, you know, having those little things at the tip of their fingers is empowering. Knowing that there are 200 uh names for sugar and if you look them up or if you look at the label of something you're buying that there are 200 names for sugar. But but literally this is a list you can Google. But when you're looking at a food label, always you know, the these are things you can take photographs on from your computer and carry them with you. So, if you're buying something um you know that that's actually hiding in sugar. Um another another culprit by the way, is glutamates um and monosodium glutamate. That's another one that not as many names, but it gets couched in different ways. You you talked pretty powerfully about glutamate. Can you tell people why glutamate matters and what it what sort of disease states it impacts? So, glutamates are found to really be difficult uh for conditions like OCD. So, it's one of the foods that we suggest to people to really be cautious of um when when they have symptoms of OCD because it can really be it can be worsened. It can be worsened by these foods and and they're they're glutamines and glutamic acid in foods that we're used to eating that are not necessarily bad foods, but when you know that they contain um glut- glutamates that you have to be careful if you have OCD. Things like Parmesan cheese, um you know, uh oyster sauce, uh tomato sauce, miso. Miso is otherwise a fermented food and super good for the gut, but if you're sensitive to glutamates, um that could be a source that could drive OCD. So, it's it's about finding, you know, you mentioned sodium and salt. It's about finding that balance for every person and what the what That's one of the reasons that I put in the book a a list of food to avoid because there are things you have to know to avoid as well. And for anyone keeping score, glutamate is the G in MSG, correct? Yes, it is. Where do you come down on um animal protein? Mhm. And it probably makes sense to touch on red meat as well um versus vegetarian. I know that you're agnostic and you can work with anybody on anything, um but in terms of coming up with sort of the ideal, um where do you fall on those two? So, you know, the the So, where I fall on those two is that I think um it's about the sourcing and it's the the uh quantity. You know, if you can get say you're having beef, grass-fed beef is going to be important because if not in the beef industry, cows uh well, so so think about when you're little and you saw, you know, photographs in your in your storybooks, cows eating grass. That that's certainly what I remember. Well, it turns out that in the industry, they don't actually eat grass. They eat some grass and but they grain off before before slaughter. And so, the graining off is a process that actually bulks them up. And and and they also given different medications and things which affects the quality of the meat because, you know, we are what we eat. So, that if if the cow eats that and we eat the cow, there's that there's that chain. So, that's what I mean by that sort of this an omega-6 problem? What is it that the cows are getting? That's one of the problems, the omega-6. The gut disruptors because they are fed hormones, they're given certain medications for digestion and for other reasons in terms of how they are bred, but also the actual grain is that that is definitely inflammatory. What I find is that of the different diets, the Mediterranean eating pattern has consistently shown the best results for depression and anxiety. Give a quick breakdown of what that is. Sure. So, the you know, it's based on the Mediterranean lifestyle and the Mediterranean region in the world. And it's basically a diet that's rich in healthy fats such as avocado, olive oil, lean protein, so whether it's, you know, chicken or seafood. It's very heavy in seafood, but but good sources of seafood. And then beans, nuts, legumes, healthy whole grains, you know, chickpeas, those types those types of ingredients. And it's consistently shown in studies to have helped individuals with mood and anxiety. So, I think that's important for people to know. Is it the perfect diet? Maybe not for everyone, but it's a good guideline Um, because my feeling about this time is that if people are consuming, you know, for example, there's a study that showed that eating trans fats um, is associated with aggression. So, once again, we come back to if you're eating these foods, you might have problems with these behaviors. And if you are or if you get worsening of symptoms, you may want to think about cutting back on that. Um, I I feel like it's a stepwise pathway to well-being and mental well-being. Because if if someone's just eating the wrong type of diet, how can I how can I encourage them on toward a healthier path? Because I think it's hard when um, you know, you either pull out your prescription pad or you or in my version of the work I do in nutritional psychiatry, I say, "Well, you have to eat this." So, I try really not to do that. My method is really about what is it that when you come in to see me, are the steps that I think you can you can try and that you feel you can commit to. Because if you're not going to do them, then you're just going to leave my office. It's like going to a physical therapy appointment and not practicing the exercises. You know, your injury is it it is not it's not going to get better. So, So, what are some of those early sort of easy wins that people can do? Um, I know that it's going to be so specific and so I'm just sort of pitching right to the middle of your sort of average person that comes to see you. I'm guessing they have anxiety or they have depression. Um, and they're not going to want to uh, give up all the lovely things that they eat. Right. So, what what are some easy switches or swaps or however you approach it? Exactly. So, I like the prebiotic foods because we those are easy to include. Things like the allium family, onions, garlic, leeks, um, off the top of my head, jicama and a few others. Um, there's a longer list in the book, but those actually just just feed the bugs what they need to thrive. So, right there, um you know, I'm speaking about mental health cuz that's what I care about the most, but the truth is by by balancing your gut gut bacteria or your gut bugs because it's not just bacteria in a good way, you also taking care of your immunity, which is largely housed in the gut, and you're doing your body good because you're fighting down inflammation. Yes, inflammation drives mental health diseases and mental well-being, but you're also uh you know, helping the level of inflammation in your body. So, it's it's just a good It's a good basic starting point. Um fermented foods, you know, kefir, um miso, kimchi, any of those add back a great gut element for you. Um another thing is eat the rainbow. So, so why why do we talk about the colors of vegetables? Because by, you know, gamifying it and I say to my patients, "How many colors of, you know, vegetables can you eat in a week or in a day or in you know, however you break it down?" Do you know, you know, that red bell peppers have some of the highest levels of vitamin C, and that's really good for you. So, so making that um something that becomes a pillar of what they do, you know, prebiotics, probiotics, um the color of the rainbow and why, and telling them the reason why this helps your gut bacteria. It reduces inflammation. It adds back antioxidants. Just simple pillars like that. And then, of course, I love to go into the spices and try to introduce them to uh more interesting flavors, but also good good brain benefits. I want to go into some of the micronutrients. You mentioned at the top you got magnesium, uh vitamin D, which we haven't talked about, but I know that you have pretty extensive understanding of the importance of that. Um but talk to me about magnesium. What What is the importance? Can we get it in diet? Do we need to supplement? What What is Uh it turns out that magnesium um people are very frequently deficient in magnesium, and magnesium is associated with high levels of depression and high levels of anxiety. So, one of the things I will do is if someone comes in with those symptoms, I will check a magnesium level. But, it's an easy thing to replenish. And if someone is super anxious, it's best to try out supplementing it while they also up their game in terms of their diet. And in chapter 11 of the book, that's why we broke down um you know, nutrients and then foods that you can find it. So, it's an easy reference. Say that you find you're deficient in magnesium or you're feeling anxious, it's an easy thing to start to increase in your diet as well. Yeah. Oh, in fact, there's we have to close the loop on that salad thing. So, salads are something that when I think of, okay, eat the rainbow, amazing advice, um putting all this stuff together, um but then you can ruin it depending on what sauce you put on it or what are some of the things. So, somebody that I um I know well will make a salad, but then they'll put like crushed like um nacho chips in it. Uh and so, they do things that is like, you were doing good right until the end. Um what should a salad look like? So, um a few things. I'm laughing because it's so true. You know, in this country, like we we think, oh, I'm going to get a healthy healthy lunch. And then there's there's all these toppings on them which which are like tons of calories right there. And not not calories in the good way. I mean, I'm not one I'm not a big one for counting calories. I think it's much more about the whole food. But, that being said, that's an excellent point. We need to kind of take a step back from the ranch and uh figure out, you know, easy easier better healthier dressings to do. So, I've even taught our medical students, this is the way to make a vinaigrette, you know. Uh I've healthy fats and acid that you like, you know, salt, pepper, shake it in a mason jar because it's going to save you money. It doesn't have all that added sodium and preservatives that and stabilizers that is salad dressing and sugar that salad dressings have. I start with uh a mixture of greens. I try to have people eat a diversity of greens because the folate has been There's a particular bacteria that has actually been shown to be super helpful in in terms of folate. So, there's a reason that I ask people to add to add more greens to their diet. And I even like people to add things like herbs like parsley. It's another green to your diet. You know, things that diversify the flavor, make it interesting to you. Dandelion greens. You know, cut up some bok choy into your your salad. It's not It doesn't have to just be lettuce. Spinach is a great option. And then the colors the I like to go for colors and textures. So, colors are all the types of sweet and sweet peppers, bell peppers are great for you. And cucumbers, you know, super low-calorie vegetable, great crunch, good flavor. All of these have vitamins. So, think about the nutrients and vitamins that you're bringing back. And I like radicchio. You know, different color, different texture, different taste. I love arugula for that peppery peppery bite. And And then nuts nuts and seeds, adding in, you know, chickpeas. Great source of plant-based protein. And we're talking, you know, 1/4 cup for the whole salad. You can throw in black beans. You can throw in white beans. You You You can bold it up. Even a simple thing, if you don't want to make a vinaigrette, a squeeze of lemon, salt, pepper, and some lemon zest on the salad is is delicious. The other herb I love to add is basil. So, you know, the more that you can kind of build a salad. I had practiced this one once and actually more than once at different patients. But the one that I remember is how much how much it helped her diabetes. And I'll explain why. She was eating She was taking meals to work, but she was taking relatively unhealthy meals that were not filling. It was impacting her blood sugar, her Dexcom monitor kept going off. She was then reaching for unhealthy snacks at work. Um her break room had, you know, peanut butter crackers or something and she'd grab that because she knew her blood sugar was was lower. But by just by adding in a healthy wholesome salad, she would actually, you know, she'd call me up the next week and she said, "I'm so full every day at lunch that I'm feeling so much better just from green, you know, greens and what I'm describing." It wasn't anything And And she might add a little bit of chicken. Sometimes she added a small piece of salmon, but she really was eating through those greens, stabilizing her blood sugar, but it there's a lot to be said for the filling ingredients, which are fiber-rich, which are bringing back those positive ingredients. So, you know, I I I kind of laugh to myself when someone rolls their eyes if I say salad, but but I'm saying it for many other different reasons. Um and for important reasons related to brain health. What made me rethink about the salad thing is just the notion of micronutrients and making sure that you're getting sort of this wide array of things. Are there um is there a basic suite of supplements or anything you recommend? My entire life I basically tried to avoid it. So, um D3 is sort of the only thing that I've ever consistently supplemented with. Um I have recently started doing magnesium and K2, um but is there anything else? Is there a suite of things that you just know the average person isn't getting enough of? So, you know, I think it depends on the symptom. I think magnesium many people are deficient in, but again, uh being a doctor I'm going to going to say have it level checked because that's a scientific way of us knowing whether you're deficient or not. Um I think D3 is is a good safe thing to do, um because many of us are deficient, especially depending on the part of the country. I I live in the northeast and I know many of us are deficient. Um and I think that with others relating to the mental health symptoms, for example, take saffron. So, saffron is has a significant number of evidence for improvement of depression, but it's a very expensive spice. You You use a tiny, you know, a few threads in say biryani or a risotto or paella. So, it's not necessarily going to convert to the type of dosing you need. That might be an appropriate place where we can get a supplement. Your book is full of so many things. We I mean, we haven't even touched on like half the disease states that you go into. Um this this is incredibly incredibly powerful information. Where can people find the book? Where can they learn more about you? Where can they really drink deeply of your wisdom? Thank you so much, Tom. So, they can find me on social media at Dr. Uma Naidoo, which is @dr um a n a i d o o. I'm always putting out new and updated information on social media, especially Instagram and tweeting. Um we try to share studies that are recent and things like that. And um my website is um NaidooMD.com. That's u m a n a i d o o m d dot com. And that will link you to where you can purchase the book, but you can also get it at your local bookstore or wherever books are sold. Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Guys, this stuff is important. Food and mood being connected, like there's just no question about it. Thank you so much for coming on today. 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