"Greatest Fight In NBA History" - Metta World Peace OPENS UP On Palace Brawl, Breaking Jordan’s Ribs

a 66 senior from Lasal Academy in New York City. He's headed to St. John. I remember being at the game. Kobe goes 6424. He's not having a good game. Second half starts and then all of a sudden he starts passing it to run and you hit that one three. Our test. That's a three. Lakers by six with a minute to play. Talk about a game game seven against the Celtics, right? I mean that was sick. It was it was incredible. I mean, he now passed me the ball and he passed me the ball. Kobe passed me the ball. You've guarded Kobe. You've guarded LeBron and you've guarded Michael. How different are they? You know, Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ, but I think LeBron and he brought something totally different to the table. Malice at the Palace. They never allowed glass drinks because of that game. Alcohol stops in the four I think now stops in the fourth quarter. I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul. But just kind of give us your commentary foul. But I know what happened. Like I've never given up three layups. Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get or you got award? I think the defensive play of the year. This is legacy right here. So this is what I think it is. I am done. That was probably the worst day of my life. You saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight? I had anger management problems as we all know. We could do a whole stand up show and it's honestly brought to you by Value Tamer. [Music] [Applause] Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. My handshake is better than anything I ever sign. It's right here. You are a one. My son's right there. I don't think I've ever said this before. That's cool. So, we got a special podcast here, man. We got the one and only Metal World Piece in the house. I had to DM you. I'm like, "Hey, I want to do a podcast." And then you responded back and then, you know, now we're sitting here together. Couldn't believe it. I mean, I never met you before. I've watched your podcast. I've watched a lot of them. I'm not gonna say all of them, but definitely a lot of them. I just came back from the US uh and Saudi investment from where I'm typically the only athlete in these rooms when I when I go out to these places. You know, it was super tight security. So, I'm thinking I said I wonder if he saw I know you're a Republican if I'm right. I know about you. And so, I said, man, I wonder if he saw me with some of his friends. is like why did he is he interested in a US Saudi investment for so you thought that was the reason I thought yeah I thought you saw it cuz literally when I got home then I got your DM so I I didn't I didn't know why he was like you're a Laker fan oh Laker fan and then and then I was like after your interview with Terrence I DM was the best interview I've seen in my life that's my favorite interview I've ever seen if I'm not mistaken Terrence Howard the Terren Howard interview was incredible and then I DM' Terrence I said I need to I I was telling my family I need to take you to lunch. Like he I'm not going to say changed my life, but he added a few things. So he is so interesting and I think the word misunderstood is very good for him. But he is so interesting. I I would say until today I'm registered independent. Of course I've been a Trump supporter for a few years, but but when you know it's funny when when when when I DM'd you I'm having a conversation. Your name comes up like dude like you know I remember being at the game game seven. Okay. Okay. Oh wow. So I'm at the game. I take my pass. We're row 18. We're there. Kobe goes 6424. He's not having a good game. This is the only game I've gone where in the first half we're sitting there. Me and Dudley look at each other. We're not even getting up. The level of anxiety is so high. I said, "Do you want to grab?" He says, "I don't want nothing. I can't even move." We sit still. And then second half starts and then Kobe's just nothing. And then all of a sudden he starts passing it to R, you know, and then and then you know he's doing his thing and then you hit that one three and then the game I mean talk about a game game seven against the Celtics, right? I mean that was sick. It was it was incredible. I mean Derek Fischer changed the game there. So Derek Fischer, he was down 13 in the third quarter. So now you know game seven at home down 13. We're looking at the shot clock. This is my first time in the finals and I'm just like, okay, there's doubt creeping in because it's like, you know, I never been here before. And Derek Fischer says, hey guys, pick your head up. He says, where would you rather be right now? He comes to his opens his arms. He says, 13 in a game seven at home. Where would you rather be? And then that did he really say this? Did he say at halftime in the in the locker room or when did he say that? in the third quarter because we was on the bench. We was down the time was it was a timeout. It was getting closer to the end. So he said that maybe at the six minute mark in the third quarter. Is this Phil is letting Derek speak or Derek is just jumping in and saying this. So typically when they call a timeout, the coaches go to the free throw line, extend it, right? And then the players go to the bench first. So you got you got like maybe 20 30 seconds. Oh 20 30 seconds for a leader to come in there. And then Derek, he is such a leader. turn because I I I didn't believe in myself at that moment in time. I believed in my heart, but I didn't know what's going to happen because we're 13 points against the Celtics. That's devastating. And but we just kept inching away and we pulled it out. We just wore them out. Sure. And and then second half when you're coming out like what what happened because you played so loose. You were just like give me the ball. I want to I want to But that's not the profile though. That's Kobe's job. That's, you know, Pal's job. And then you all of a sudden became the aggressor. Well, you know, interest. Well, when I played until I got with the Lakers, I was a go-to guy. I was always the go-to guy. I mean, the year before that, I averaged 25 against the I remember that. I remember that. You know, if you look at Y. So, from that, so from that perspective, I've been in this situation for my whole life. But when you get with Kobe, you become a role player. So, I was I became a role player in my prime. So imagine right now today if you're a role player in your prime, you know how much money you're leaving on the table by saying instead of averaging 20, I'm going to average. Why' you do it? Cost you some money, right? Is it fair to say it cost you? Well, going to the Lakers, um, I was worth more than $6 million a year, right? Sure. You know what I mean? Especially if after you came off of 24 and a half games of se, you know, points a game. Definitely worth more than you. So that I had to just deal with it. It was hard. It was the It was one of the hardest things I've had to deal with. That game you you played against Kobe where he's going like this, you know, and you know, you know what I'm saying? He's going like this. He's going like this. And you telling the referee, "Dude, he hit me, elbowed me, right?" You know which one I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah. I watch Kobe go after guys and recruit the guys that were not afraid of him. Right. You, Barnes, a couple other guys that he wanted to Jordan did this as well with Rodman and a few other guys that he went after. Yeah. Did Did he Did he ever call you try to recruit you or No, no, he actually didn't. You know, cuz Kobe's he's probably going to send his his soldiers, which is the the Lakers organization. The the Lakers called me at 12:01. So on on on June 30th, so that's when the free agency opened. So I didn't I did not expect that call. At 12:01, I was in LA at the SLS hotel about to go out with my friends. I get a call, we pull over, and then my agent, David Bowman, says, "The Lakers want to speak to you." Pardon my French, but my my first reaction was, "For what?" Because I'm like, "They just beat us." Like, one, I don't ever think I'm going to play for the Lakers. Two, I'm super competitive. And I'm like, I don't want to speak to the Lakers. Yeah. He said, they want you they want they want you on their team. So then I'm like, I was still a little bit defensive. But then I was like, hold on a second. He just say, "So now all this stuff is going on in my head." I meet with Dr. Bus the next morning and he was like, "You know, I'm sorry. I'm not going to be able to pay you what you worth, but we really want you on this team." Straight up. He says that opening line. Yep. That's his opening line. I said, "Damn, Dr. Bus, Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant. I love Kobe Bryant. I love Kobe." Did you But did you love him then when you're Well, like when you're playing against him? No, not when I'm playing against him. No. When I'm playing against him, I don't like RP Kobe Bryant. when I'm playing against him. No. But when I'm when I'm not playing against Kobe, I love Kobe, you know. Totally. I fully understand that. I love Kobe. He's in. So he tells you, he says, "So I can't pay what you're worth." And he's the one negotiating the deal. Who else is Is Mitch Cup check in the room? Just me and Bus. Nobody else is in the room. Nobody. How long was that meeting? We went to the W Hotel. We sat at the bar in the Westwood W Hotel. Sat at the bar. We didn't drink any alcohol. I might have ordered a avocado toast and that was it. We just talked. Maybe we didn't even order anything. We talked and that was it. I was like, "Yep." I said, "Just send me the contract. I just I'll just sign it." And he told you the number then? Did he kind of say? He said only the mid mid-level mid-level exception. Yeah. Mid-le exception, which usually is five, six million in that category. But you could have been worth 10, 20 million, whatever the contracts were. At that time it was 12, 15, you know, being a number one guy in a playoff deal last 12 to 15. So you're leaving at least 10 20 million bucks on the table. I left a lot of money on the table. Worth it though till today. Um, it's worth it. It's definitely worth it for sure because I learned so much about myself. I learned that I could overcome adversity. You know, you're thinking about your check. Oh, not only the money. That's one piece, but the other piece is you're only averaging 6.9 points. You see, that's your your ego. That's going from where you were in your prime. So, and keep in mind every time Kobe didn't play in my first stint with the Lakers, I was averaging 18.9. I I had to tally it up myself because I had to reassure I was still pretty good. I was having doubt. You know, when you're not shooting the ball year after year after year, you're just a role player in the corner. And when Kobe didn't play, like you'll see a game with the Spurs, it was like Kawhai and whoever else was on that team. You'll see me playing very well at 26. So I can still play, but when Kobe comes back now minutes away. Yeah. You get two shots, maybe four, maybe five. What was your relation? Because I mean the one thing that's very interesting with you is you know there's only a few it names stars that people know. You're not a regular player. You were 04 defensive player of the year, right? You're uh you know you got 19 years you played in the NBA, you know, with six teams and you're going to go down as arguably one of the greatest defenders of all time. You know, perimeter defense. You were just you were ridiculous when playing against you was annoying, right? I bet guys probably didn't want to go up against you. Yeah, definitely not. But you defended you played you defended against Michael, against Kobe, and against LeBron, right? You play defense. That's not a lot of people that can say that. It's there's a lot of people that did, but not defending them, right? Where you got defending all three of them. So Kobe has a teammate at that time when you come in. Is he lifting you up? Is he punking you? Is he talking Is he saying, "Let's go have dinner?" Is he asking you, "How's family? How's everything?" What What is his mentality like on Is he saying, "Hey, we whooped your ass. Now you're here. You know, you came from the Rockets here." What is he telling you now that you're his teammate? Let's have a good practice. Let's get ready to win a championship. It's not a lot of banter going back and forth for Kobe. You know, we didn't have a relationship. And Kobe is very aware. He He gotta know I can't I can't wait to get to practice because he knows me. He He knows I got that fire. That's why he brought me. He has to know that I'm bringing it the first possession of our first practice. So our first practice, I'm sure he couldn't wait and I couldn't wait. Now I got him and he got me every day for two hours or three hours in training camp. So the first practice, you know, we're going against each other. We're not in we're not in a starting group yet. So, you know, we couldn't wait. Now, he played very well. I must say he played very well, but I was also very physical, if that makes sense. I was on them. Now, he scored, but it was definitely something to watch. Was there friction like in practice with the two of you or No, for sure. But was there friction like you know, you hear stories about Michael and Steve Kerr, you know, that kind of friction or no? Or Samaki Walker. I think Walker and Kobe had an issue one time on the bus. I don't know if you've heard that story. No, I didn't hear it. Nothing like that. It was nothing like we were about to fight, but it was definitely very aggressive or it was very aggressive, but not what we did have one incident where um Kobe was playing very well. He was getting under my skin. Phil Jackson was getting under my skin. And then I was telling the team, I said, you know, last year if ying didn't break his foot, I said, we would have beat all of y'all, right? And then Phil was like, "Calm down, Ronnie." And I'm like, "We not calming down until I say we calm down." So I I was just disrupting saying this to Phil. Yeah. Yeah. Phil, but Phil Phil can take heat. Because Phil give heat, by the way. Phil gives heat and he can take it. One of the few coaches that can take it. A lot of coaches can't take what Phil could take. So you're saying this, so he says, "Calm down, Ronnie." What is Kobe saying? Kobe's just watching cuz So I think what was happening to Kobe wanted I think I came to practice one day, but I wasn't asked. What year is this? What's the What's the This is 2010. I want to know who the roster is. Keep going. I'm listening. Yeah. So, I think like I came to practice, but maybe I wasn't as intense. And I think Kobe wanted to push my button. So, cuz Kobe I seen him snickering in the back when I was going that field and he was like So, I think Kobe was like actually enjoying the process. Yeah. Enjoying enjoying the process. But that was the only day where like, you know, where we addressed I just got I just came from the Rockets and now I'm here. We never talked about that. They beat us, but we was the only team to take them to seven. They went through everybody that year. You know, the championship game was the Rockets versus the Lakers basically that year. Yeah. I mean, listen, if it was a different story. Yeah. So, you're saying this to Phil. You're saying Phil also knows how to bring the heat. Yeah. Phil, I talked to Shaq one time uh uh where you know, Shaq and Kobe, I'm asking both of them about uh the relationship with Phil. And there's a story once I read about the fact that Shaq sat both of them down and said, "Hey, you guys think you guys got a big ego? I got a bigger ego than both of you guys have combined, right? Saying something like that. Now, whether that happened or not, who knows? What what was different about his style of leadership than other coaches you had? You know, Phil, he I mean, he's a energy guy. He's a Buddhist. He's Zen master. He's an energy guy. And I think a lot of the times he just he's just um he's uh nurturing your energy. He's uh centering your energy, you know. Uh he he has a play the triangle but the triangle is nothing but a set. The triangle is nothing but stay in your spot and he he's on you see Phil he's just sitting there the whole time where other coaches like hey go here go here go here. So Phil's letting you get out of your own issues. He's letting you solve your own problems. Yeah. He wasn't the guy that would say timeout. Let's go. Boom. Boom. No. And it would say you'd watch the game and the opposition would score six points back to back to back. Yeah. And you would hear uh uh what's his name? the old guy Chick Hearn, you know, or whoever it was, Steu Lance. And because I I used to live in LA, so I would listen broadcasters. Yeah. Color commentator. Anyway, Phil is not even getting up. You just sit there and just watching as you're like, is he even thinking about it? He would let you fail. Yes. He'll sit there and you know what? And if you lost about 30, go into the locker room and we'll go back to practice. But he's kind of putting that uh accountability on you, which is really unique. But how would he do it? What do you say here? So, how do you Would he go in the locker room and says, "How'd you guys feel about the loss?" So, what do you think happened? Or was it kind of like, "All right, guys. We'll see you at practice tomorrow." What What was I'm not going to say he was like babying us, but he definitely was pointing out the mistakes, but he was always trying to strengthen our center. How do we do that? We meditate, turn off all the lights, bring sage in the locker room, you know, um center, breathe together, you know, sit up straight in your chair, close your eyes, relax your jaws, relax your So, he was like always empowering you. He wasn't beating you down with the exception of he'll say little things to get under. He has something for everybody where he can get under your skin. Like what? Like, give me an example. He called me cement feet. When he called me cement feet, that made me upset. Cement feet. Yeah. He used to call I had these big shoes. I had a deal with another company, not not a Nike, not in the Adidas. I had another company and they were big, but I did it because it was a it was a deal. So, I just signed a contract with the shoes and yeah, it wasn't the greatest looking shoes. So, you know, Kobe's playing in Nikes. I'm playing in these big blocks. Which one is it? The ones in the championship. I got I got them on in the finals. So, the one the one in you wore the cement feet in game seven. Cement feet was definitely in game seven for sure. Oh It's not these ones. These are some other ones I had throughout the years. When's the last time? Oh, there they go. Right there. That's the one. Who was the shoe company? It was a company out of China um called Peak. So, let me design my own shoe. I couldn't believe they didn't let me design my own shoe, but it's another story. So, if he called you Cement Feed, what did he call the other guys? Uh he had I I forget what he had for the other guy. He had something for Kobe, too. Really? 100%. So, would he try would he get under Kobe skin or he couldn't get under Kobe skin? Kobe. He had leave him on the bench a little longer. You know, he like he didn't have to say anything. It was like this is your punishment. An extra 30 seconds, minute on the bench. I don't know why he would do it. But you know, Kobe's like Kobe looking down at Phil with that, you know, that laser eyes, that face, you know, that that in the his his mouth. This part turned to a bear. Like a bear mamba. This part turned to the mamba. And Phil's just like, you know, you gonna stay there. I know you're supposed to check it now, but we're going to give you three more minutes over there and have you know Kobe be pissed. What What happened with Sasha Vuichek? What was there a fight between him and Kobe? Like and one thing cuz Kobe was saying something and he's elbowing him and Sasha's got I've seen that clip. I don't know where that clip is. Yeah, Sasha cuz Sasha is a strong person. Like that whole team was full of dogs. Remind me of Indiana team. So everybody on that team was, you know, pretty much psycho. Like Sasha, Mina, me, you know, Pal's a nice guy, but Pal can get really aggressive and into it. You can see it in his face. You know, obviously Lamar and Josh Powell, people that you don't see a lot. Wow. That's right. Shannon Brown. Fisher. Fisher is different. Fisher is not going to be rah, but Fischer is not playing no games, you know. He's a little bit different. So Sasha, you say something to Sasha, he's bringing he's he's coming right back at you. He don't care who it is. You know, Sasha's got a lot of heart. Adam Morrison, Adam Morrison's probably the most Morrison Gonzaga the most psycho probably. Really? Seriously? He ain't taking no game. Adam Morrison's not playing any games. Seriously? Oh, 100%. Adam Morrison not playing no games. Are you joking? No. Adam is actually he should have if it wasn't for those injuries. He was so good in practice. But you had me, you had Kobe with his injuries. If he doesn't get injured, you're talking about allstar multiple times. No Yeah. Wow. Because Incredible. Yeah. You hear stories. He He's on the I mean college player of the year. I remember he was he was insane in college. He he was really good. I wanted to know one thing about Phil. When's the last time you interacted or even saw Phil Jackson? I I was on the phone with Phil last year when I went to go visit Carile Indiana Paces. Carile. Yeah. And uh he had Phil on the phone as the last time I spoke to Phil and I said, "Hey, Phil." But I would also call Phil when I needed like coaching advice because I'm a coach. So when I was coaching my high school girls or my college girls, I would call Phil and just ask him about different things and if I'm thinking about it the right way. So let me ask you this story about you being drafted by the Bulls. If it wasn't for something else, you would have been drafted by the Knicks. And now you've been wanting the Knicks coaching job since 2019. I've been wanting I've been wanting to be a Nick since 1996 in high school and then 1999 I thought I would be a Nick. I love New York even though you know I'm a Pacer guy also. I love the Pacers all and the Lakers too. The Lakers turned my the Lakers on cement my cemented my legacy. The Sacramento Kings um regained my career. I went to Sacramento after Indiana. Sacramento, you know, they got my career back. I was done, depressed. Mentally, I was done. So, you know, I had different journeys with everybody and the Pacers, we just had such great rapport. Like, we was headed in the right direction, you know. Um, so I'm probably tightest closest with the Pacers and Lakers. Probably Pacers and Lakers. Um, I love Mr. Dolan. I don't I don't have a relationship with Mr. Dolan, but the Knicks, I'm from New York City, St. John's, right? So, St. John's, you know, Queens. So, um, for sure I want to be a Nick. I want to I was a Nick for one year, you know. Thank you to Mr. Dolan and Grunt Gruntfield and whoever else was there. They not there anymore. And, uh, yeah. So, the Knicks is extremely It's extremely important to me. Have you have have have you guys had a conversation about the coaching job or No, no, because you got to think about it. When I when I was um I coach at Cal State LA, I coached Division 2 women's basketball for the last seven years, right? We're turning that program around. You know, I was I was uh at a coffee shop in the Vancouver Islands when we all found out that Tibs got fired. So, when I saw that shock I was shocked. I don't know if you were shocked. I was shocked. I wasn't I wasn't shocked. I was I was waiting to put in a phone. I couldn't wait to send out that I want the job cuz my mind didn't have time to be shocked, you know, or surprised or anything. I was like, "Oh, this is available now." You got to understand when someone gets fired, the agents, the general managers, they're already working. So, somebody's already being hired. And this has happened to me all the time. I can't get opportunities because I I'm not in the know. I don't have an agent. And I don't necessarily I don't necessarily try to fit in circles, you know? I just like to work. So, I don't have circles hoping. So, that's why I said I'm going to send this tweet out. And I did it within like two minutes. And then it kind of went viral. Now, I'm still not in the system, if that makes sense. But, so you haven't interviewed yet. There's not interviewed, but they know they know you want the job. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so what would you like if let's just say you were there, okay? And you got a very young team. Okay. They went to the Eastern Conference Finals twice, right? The guy's a stud. He's an underestimated guy, Bronson, where you know, since the day he came out, is he a Villainova? Who did he went to Villainova? Half that team went to Villova. That's right. So, how would you how would you coach that team differently, you know? Um, so for one, I'm not going to say differently because I'm not going to compare myself to Tibs. You know, uh maybe some of the things are the same, but I know uh how I want to win. I know how I want to win. And I'm not going to give away everything because I one if I do get the Nick's job, which would be a blessing, it would need to be a Hail Mary, like a Nick football. First time ever. You never seen a Nick football. It need to be a hail Mary for me to get this position. Um, you know, I saw a couple things. Game one, that was the Knicks game. Hallebertton was incredible. He's the Michael Jordan of these playoffs. You know, they That's a big statement right there. Yeah. Of these playoffs this year, he's the Michael Jordan. Wow. We've never seen this. Name a time you seen these many game winners. Game one, he ripped the heart. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that one shot he made three. Yeah. Or four. Who has done? Yeah. He's playing. Okay. So, for you between Pacers and Knicks, who's your heart? Who has your heart? It's different. Uh, it's about even when they play against each other in the playoffs, I typically don't go to those games because the Pacers, you know, is where I played the best. I had history with the fans. The fans had my back. Organization had my back, you know, through all the the rough times. Where New York, I'm a protector of New York City basketball. I love New York. So, it's almost like an even playing field. Would you take an assistant job before you eventually have a coaching like a head coach? Like you would would you entertain assistant? Well, right now since the Nick head coaching job is on the table. I don't want to put assistant in the air. I got you. I want I want to keep it focused on head coaching because um you got to think about it. People could say this coach is prepared. This coach is prepared. This is not taking any shots at the coaches. But everybody had their chance to bring the Knicks to the promised land. Everybody had their chance. At some point in time, somebody got to step up and actually bring the Knicks to the promised land. You know, you know what it reminds me of? You know, the the coach of the Detroit Lions. The coach of the Detroit Lions. Dan Campbell. There's something. Yeah. There's something about the guy that's emotional. I want to know, is Dan Campbell from Detroit? Can you see if he's he's from No, he's from Texas. Interesting. Because he coaches the Lions as if he's from Detroit. Nice. Did he ever play for the Lions? Who did he play for? Okay. Head coach Yeah. Who did he play for? I think I think he played as well. Uh, he did 2006. So, so there you go. There is heart there. There is that affinity for the organization because when it comes down to Knicks, I wonder what it's like to get a guy there that's coaching, who is a New York guy, who is doing what he's doing. Going back to what we were talking about with uh uh you know Kobe, you you you you played with Kobe, you've guarded Kobe, you've guarded you know LeBron, and you've guarded Michael. Now Michael, you guarded him when he was I think with the at the end. So it's not really you can't really compare. I looked at the numbers. I actually pulled it up to see Yeah. You know what uh they average when they when you when you play defense against them. So Michael, you played five games uh five games against them. I don't know if you know these stats. Do you know the stats? I I never Yeah, I know he played. Yeah. So, you played five You guarded him five You played against him five times. Okay. 22.4 games. 22.4 points a game. Six rebounds, 2.6 assists. This is against you. Kobe you played against 20 times, 276, 57 rebounds, 61 assists. What about the field goal percentage? They have it. Uh, I can pull that up as well. And then LeBron 269, 6.76. Matter of fact, I'm going to pull that up because that's interesting to know that as well. Yeah. What was the what was a different style playing up against MJ? He was in his mid to late 30s. Yeah. Kobe, LeBron, how different are they guarding them? They all different. You know, Kobe's definitely more similar to MJ, but I think MJ get the upper hand because MJ's mid-range is incredible. He's very strong. He could turn left, turn right. Once he release it, it's going in. Kobe's a little bit different, a little bit more agile. than MJ and LeBron's more he's stronger. He's more of a team player even though Jordan did average a triple double I think in one of these playoff series and he did have times where he would have 13 assists. But I think LeBron he was physical. He seized the floor and he brought something totally different to the table than like a what a Kobe would bring or Michael. They they all so different. But if I had to give one guy the edge, it' be it' be Michael because of what? Because of mid-range. His he's really efficient. If you see his movement, it's all like everything's fundamentally sound. He's quick, he's strong, he's athletic, he can shoot, you know. Uh yeah. So, I would probably have to give it to to Michael. Is it true the story I heard about when when you played pickup with Michael, you broke two of his ribs? Yeah. H how did that happen? Um you see that picture you just saw me and Mike? Look at this picture. You see that one right there? I love that. So, you see that's in the game. Look, look at Mike. How old are you in this picture, by the way? I'm 19 or 20. That's how me and Mike played every day in the summertime. Wow. We was just we was picking up from the summertime right there. That picture when I saw that picture, I said, "Wow." That's what Because people didn't get a chance to see. Look at Mike Arms. What is What am I doing? What is Mike doing? So, whose foul is this? Whose foul? This is your foul. Why would you say this is my foul? You're on his face. His arm is below you. You're you're fouling him. But look, what is his arms doing? He's putting his arms into you to grab onto you. Okay. Yeah. This is the same call where Mike in the summertime when I broke his ribs by mistake where he got called the offensive foul on this play. So keep the same exact play. So keep in mind so check it out. Watch this. Which is really interesting. I love Mike by the way. I changed my number to 23 because of Mike. I love Mike. Right. But so Mike is Mike runs in the summertime. He's bringing referees. So Mike has three referees in his runs. He's bringing the referees. Yeah. Every everyone. That's how you win a game. It's free throws. Everything in Mike Mike runs. Do they favor him because he's paying them or not really? They better. I don't know if they was favoring him as much honestly. I think it was even for everybody. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it was even. So, you see my right arm? Yeah. On the other side. On the back. On the back side. So, because Mike is so strong and the reason I'm like that because he he got these little tricks. The thing with Mike is this. If you let him catch it, that's that's where you die. So, you can't let him catch it. Interesting. cuz once he catch it, I don't care who you are. You done, right? So, as he was holding me, I took my right arm in the summer time and I moved his bottom arm out the way and then I cracked him on the other side. But I I didn't throw it at him. I was just trying to swing and move him out the way. And I just think he didn't realize how strong I was. But he called me after that because in the media s, you know, people reported that I they said I punched Michael in in in a Chicago tribute. Ron Artes punches Michael Jordan in a in a in a in a run. Seriously? Chicago trooping said that. Yeah. Sam, what'd he call you and say? Well, he said I was depressed for two days. I'm like, this this news just went out. Yeah. That I punched somebody. I played for the Bulls. So, I was depressed and I didn't go to practice the summertime practices. But then Michael called me and said, "It's okay. We was just playing hard. I want you to come back." That's what Michael said. Michael, you see that? Who foul is that? Well, he's on defense. He's going to get the foul. Whose foul is that? Whose foul is that? Look at all these pictures with me. That's why I love Mike. Mike Young. I think Mike um Mike said in the paper one time that I was his one of his favorite players or defenders and and then I came out and said it and then Barkley was like, "Mike didn't say that. Why would Michael Jordan say that Ronald Test is one of his favorite players?" Look at that one. This is Look, you see me and Mike. is insane. See, you see the intensity. You see that's what people that's that's what you know I mean that's why Mike I'm like Charles why would I make that up? I don't I'm like look how I play against Michael. I ain't kissing Michael Jordan's behind. I'm going at Michael. Was he talking? Was he like out of all three? Who's chirping the most? Well, nobody talks to me. Are you being serious? I'm serious. Tell me why. I've never heard anybody talk to Wait a minute. Are you being serious? With the exception of I've never heard Mike talk trash to me. I heard him talk trash to other people. Kobe when I when I talked to Kobe that's when we was going we had a little banter back and forth but I've never seen Kobe Kobe I never heard Kobe talk to me or even or even like a LeBron I never no you know cuz you you risk me turning up they don't they don't want that smoke is what you're saying but Paul Pierce on the other hand okay the truth he initiates it well I mean listen part of it is you know the the Rob can you pull up the clip of you you pull his pants down you pull his shorts down in the middle of the In the middle of the game. In the middle of a game. What do they call it? They have a name for this. You pants it, right? Is this it? Play this. Watch this. Here. Yeah. Cuz uh look at this. Look. Look at Ron. Okay. No. No. You got to go back. You got cuz you missed it. Go back a little bit. And watch this. But respect to Paul Pierce here. He gets the ball. I know. I know. I know. Fade away three on you. So, what was that all about? What? Well, he was scoring so much. I couldn't stop him in this game. And he couldn't stop me. By the way, I had a lot of points, too. So, I was trying to like slow him down. I was literally trying to slow him down, but you know, Paul was like, "Yeah, you didn't care." Before Before we move on from the MJ, LeBron, Kobe conversation, I I have one question for you. I mean, not many people can say that you've guarded the three best offensive players, three best, you know, athletes that have ever played the game. Let's you put Michael Jordan, the GOAT, aside. You're starting a team. You're the manager. You're the coach, right? You can either draft Kobe in his prime or LeBron in his prime. You get the first pick. And they prime. Prime time. LeBron. Prime time. Kobe. You get the first pick. Prime time. LeBron. Prime time. I I pro I probably go with Kobe. Um because he I think he had he could take over a game, but LeBron you LeBron's the number one score. That's really hard. You sound conflicted here. It's just really hard. I feel like your heart says Kobe, but your mind's saying LeBron. Yeah. Sometimes I do pick LeBron. Sometimes sometimes I'll pick LeBron. Like, all right, that's my guy. Some days I'll pick Kobe, but then also what gets in the way of my goat is Tim Duncan. They forget Tim's arguably better than those guys. But let's not bring Tim in the conversation. You get your first pick. Who you taking? That's That's first pick. Um that's crazy. In their primes. Yeah, you get the first pick. LeBron brought a team. How many teams did LeBron bring to the finals with like three? No. No. No. A lot. With Mo Williams. Not Mo Williams. Mo Williams averaged 16 points, but it wasn't like he had I see the point you're making because you know what I mean. So then at that from that perspective it leans towards Eastern Conference and it was there was a moment where in Eastern Conference you didn't have a lot of stuff going on. So he's never been to the finals or he with the Lakers but yes true the Western Conference a little tougher. I mean you probably would lean towards a LeBron at you know sometimes you pick towards a LeBron. You would lean towards a LeBron. So tell me about this Duncan when you're saying like Duncan was better than all all of those guys. Duncan's arguably better than those guys. All like even Michael or just LeBron and co Duncan is okay. Did they put Michael in it? Duncan is arguably um would beat those guys. Stop it. Duncan got five rings. Stop it. In a small market, by the way, Jordan was in Chicago. It's not going to be not tough to get to Chicago. Kobe's in LA. It's not tough to convince somebody to come to LA. It's tough to convince somebody to come to Cleveland. LeBron went back to Cleveland. See, that title is going to separate LeBron at the end of the day at some point because he is the number one scorer already. He went back to a small market. LeBron called me in 2009 to come to the Cavs. Now, I said no for many reasons. He called you? I spoke to I spoke to King James on the phone and, you know, I want one, I want to play against King James. I want to play against Kobe. I want to play against T-Mac. I typically don't like to play on their teams. That's that's the main thing. But that was a small market. you couldn't really convince me to go. So, San Antonio, small market. So, it's tougher to win in San Antonio than it is. Interesting. Interesting what you just said because the perspective you're given is that the ability like I asked Kobe, I said, "Kobe, how do you recruit guys to come to your team?" It's very easy for me. You want to win, come with me. You don't go with everybody else. That was his remember when he said that easy. He said, "You want to come to me? Let's go win." Told you that. He told me that. Yeah, Rob, you can pull up that clip. It's It's online somewhere, but he was on your show. Yeah. Yeah, we had him on in front of 6,000 people. 2019. 2019. Yeah, we had a very good But find a part about him saying recruiting if you can find it. But it's interesting to say like, who wants to go to a small market? Who wants to go to small market? Who wants to go to small market? And now you got two small markets and the finals today. Yes. You got two small markets and the finals today. You got Indiana and you got OKC. Lowest view. Did you see the data? It's the lowest viewed finals since 1988. Man, it's a it's a reason for that. Honestly, I think we got to get the people back. It used to um we need to let these stars become stars, not like force feeding stuff. Tell me what you mean by that. Meaning like there's a lot of manufactured stars like who? Um, I don't want to mention people's names exactly, but for example, when Detroit Pistons won the finals, yeah, you had Richard Hamilton and Rashid Wallace, but nobody had them winning 2004. That was a team. That was a team they became stars. Look at the Warriors. Yeah, they had Stephen Curry, but we didn't know. But that team became stars, but sometimes you'll get the media, they'll force feed you, you know, this guy, force feed you this team. I mean, look at this Pacer team. You know, there's no real superstars. No, even Hallebertton's doesn't give me a superstar vibe. No. Yeah, they're not superstars yet, but they're they're going to become stars because we're going to win it, right? You think you think you're going to win it? Yeah, we're going to win in the six. You think so? Absolutely. I was blown away by the fact that last night I'm sitting over Dylan. It's 11:30. I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? They're up two to one. Yes. Because the way that the, you know, OKC plays, they're long. They got the def, you know, the way they're playing is it's a very intimidating team. 68 wins. like they should win it. Indiana's got how many wins? 50 or 51? 49 wins? I don't even know what the number is. Maybe not even 50. But I So here's a question for you. What's the biggest difference between Hallebertton and Chris Paul? Hallebertton a little bit taller, a little bit more shifty, um a better three-point shooter, you know, um and uh probably a bigger clutch shot maker than than Paul. Paul Michael, he probably could argue that, but Hallebertton, he has this timing on his clutch shots. The time he's on time. He is not late. His shot is a very unorthodox shot, but it just goes in the way. It's like he holds it and then he holds it like a like he shoots it in a very It's like old school shot. He's got an 80s old school shot the way people would shoot. Kind of got like a Shawn Marian Bill Cartright weird little wind. I don't know if I would go that far. I think he's just got a he's got a he's got an old it's more 70s actually. It's more it's more 60s actually. He's like Rick Barry at the free throw line doing a very weird shot like I don't know if they're going to you know duplicate that shot but going back to fabricating players to become superstars. So fabricating players to become superstars. So if I gave you some names, okay, and you know on on current NBA today, okay, tell me what you think about their game. Giannis. Giannis is really good on defense. Um I think he's so physical on offense. I don't know if he has a lot of moves, but he's scoring at a high clip because he's so physical. He's quick. He's in shape. He's in shape. So fun to watch. He's a fun guy to watch. Fun guy to watch. He can He hedges on screens are incred. I really love his hedges on screens. That I love that the most about out of anything that he does because it's such an important part of the game. What do you think about Luca? Luca has to get in shape. Okay. Luka has to get in shape. I heard he lost 20 pounds. Yeah, he has to not only lose weight, but also create endurance. I think uh the game was a little bit easy for him on offense. And I and I think he forgot that you also got to play defense and to play defense, you got to be in shape. So, you know, um so I think um he has to be more aware of the game. He has to be more aware that there are incredible players around. Look who's in the finals. Luca is the man. Well, guess what? Now it's other people that are winning. So, Luca has to like really uh get back to square one. When when when you think about Zion Williamson, okay, Zion is a beast of a guy when you look at his body, physicality, the whole thing, right? And you're seeing the numbers that he's putting up. If he plays, I don't know how many games he's missed. I think he's missed 200 plus games. Yeah. a lot of games the last four or five season. From your perspective, is he done or can he still come back and be superstar status champion type of guy? Maybe go to the Knicks and maybe you coach him in the next two or three years. You know what I'm saying? Cuz he wants to go to the Knicks. According to a lot of uh you know, rumors you hear about, the guy wants to leave uh New Orleans and wants to go to the Knicks. You think this guy's gonna make a resurgence and be a superstar? Yeah, I think I think he will. He had the injury, came off the injury, so you can see he was he wasn't as bouncy, you know. I think he same situation as Luca. I think you got to un you got to be aware. Sometimes you get so much money, you know, so much media, private jets, all this stuff. But you're not aware of the game. You're not aware of the soul of the game. So you're not aware that other people are working Shay Alexander in shape. You know, you're letting these people catch up to you. And by the way, they might stay consistently there. You got Winana, you're not aware that, oh, Winana is coming. He's going to be a force in a couple years. You only get a window. You only get a window. Russell Westbrook got MVP. Well, that's a window. And that window goes away. No matter how good you are, somebody else is going to step in. The same thing with winning. You know, even with even with the even with the Denver team, they won it once, right? Twice or once. Once. Once. Once. Yeah. They got they got there twice. I think they got there twice. Yes. And it's a window now. They don't know. We don't know if they're going to get there again. So Zion and people like Luka, they got to understand this is a window. Can you check to see if Denver got there twice? They beat the Heat. I know. I know they got there once. I I I think they've been on the Western Conference multiple times, three times. And and and he's a he's a stud of a guy. Demog won the first championship in history. They got Yeah, I think they just got to the championship. What a team. Oh, because that one year uh Jamal Murray was injured. I don't know if you remember when he got hurt after they won. Yeah, that's right. After they won it. You were gonna ask about a couple different players who are maybe I don't want to put words in your mouth, sort of become the face of the league, almost coronated before they've done anything. A name that comes to mind for me, my opinion is Anthony Edwards. He's never won anything. He's, you know, Luca beat him, got to the finals. Shay Gilggas Alexander beat him, got to the finals. Is he someone that you might be referring to as someone that you know the face of the league but maybe hasn't deserved it yet? So it's two different ways to become a face. One, it's your sneaker company. It's your branding company marketing you. Paid ads, advertisement. Then you got media. They got to find somebody they're going to pick. Good-looking guy. Good looking guy. Media playing well. You know, everybody's, you know, then you got those two ways. And you got the fans, right? Then you got the fans. Sometimes the it's two it's almost like three sections of fans. You got the the the media fan who's only listening to the media. Yeah. And they just putting out the messaging like that because they got to go to work then and then you got the real fan, you know, and then sometimes depending on who's saying what. Maybe all four of those verticals are saying Anthony Edwards. Well, Shay has something to say about that, right? You know, and I think I like when you earn it. I like when Ben Wallace earned the defensive player of the years. The Richard Hamilton or Chanty Bilips earned that finals MVP. Eagle Dollar was a stud, man. Dollar was fun. Johny was incredible. Yeah. You know, Mr. Big Shot. Yeah. Yeah. Ben, I think I'm Did Ben get defensively played four times? I should have I should have had one or two of those. And Ben, you should have one of his. One. I think I think one. So, I got a question for you. Yeah, I think one. Curious to know what you're saying. He He would make an argument that he should have had mine. That's a good defensive player. I'm going to steal your stuff. So, so since we're talking about defensive player of the year before we get to the malice malice at the Palace, but defensive player of the year, when when when you think about defensive player of the year, you know, they'll talk about Michael Jordan, you know, you know, he he played defense and he was this and he was that and LeBron never got a defensive player of the year. Right. And then LeBron has said multiple times that that year when Mark Gasol got the defensive player of the year, it should have been his. Right. Right. What are your thoughts about that? Well, LeBron, I think LeBron's a good defender. He He's different. He's a um he hustles. He tracks you down. He's all over the floor. He's rebounding. He's a different type of defender. It might It's probably going overlooked a little bit, but you can make the same case with MJ. MJ actually the way I locked up is the way MJ locked up. You see what I'm saying? MJ locked up like that, you know, and got 30. So MJ, it's it's a difference. Marcus was more protecting the rim. So LeBron does have an argument because Mark wasn't locking up, but he was protecting the team. He was the anchor like a Draymond Green. Draymond locks up and he's the anchor, right? So LeBron was a He definitely was the anchor because you go to the basket, well, here comes LeBron. Look, even look at his big blocks that he had in the finals. He for sure has an argument. He has an argument on being a on winning the defensive player of the year that year over Marcusaul. I I mean Mark play I think he has an argument that year because we we're overlooking how he affects defense. You everybody because we're used to seeing a wing player perimeter getting down on defense doing what Michael Jordan did which was Michael lock people up. What what year did Mark Gaul win defensive player of the year? Man, Mark Gaul defensive player of the year 2013. Interesting. So 2013 what did LeBron do in 2013? and defensive player of the year. 2013 he was playing for the Heat. Defensive player of the year 2013. Let's see. Last second to last year. He voted second defensive player of the year. Okay. So, if we go to defensive player of the year, there's the most valuable rookie of the year. Defensive player of the year. So, LeBron went second. So, Marcus all got 212 votes. Um, LeBron got 149. Mark got 31st place votes and LeBron got 18. Then it was Ibaka. Yokim Noah and it was Tony Allen and Tim Duncan. So he almost got it. He almost got it. LeBron averaged.9 uh blocks a game. Mark was 1.7. Steals LeBron 1.7. Mark one. I wonder how they score that. Is it cuz when I asked you a question and I said, you know, here's what Jordan averaged against you, LeBron averaged against you, Kobe averaged against you. And then the first thing you asked about was what? What do they shoot field goal? Right. Field goal percentage. Is the NBA going to look at the fact that what the opponent's field goal percentage is to give you that defensive player of the year? Well, I wouldn't have got defensive player of the year if it wasn't for Rick Carl because the year I got it, Rick Carl had the whole staff work on it. So Rick Carl really won me that. It was a stat that all small forwards averaged six points against me that year. I didn't even know that. So you combine all the small forwards when you play against Meta, they was only getting six points. Now, yeah, LeBron might have gotten 25, but everyone else was getting really sometimes zero. I held a lot of people to zero points, which is really difficult, you know, two points, you know. So, you you were 2004, right? 2004 defensive player year. And who was second behind you that year? It might have been Ben. It was always me that those years was just being Ben flip-flopping. O2, was it 03 or 04? No, 034, right? I got it 034. 034. Yeah. Can you pull it up, Rob? I'm actually curious right now. Kevin Garnett for a second. Oh, no Huh? Let me let me check this one out. If if you go Rob to me, I'm actually curious to know who was. Is it showing who's second and third or no? Kevin Garnett. Kevin Garnett. How did he he got MVP that year and actually Jermaine? Well, I think I thought Jermaine should have won defensive player of the year, but yeah, I got it. So, let's let's talk about, you know, here's an interesting stat. I looked up who has been suspended, who got the biggest suspension in the NBA ever. OJ Mayo was first place. I didn't know that, by the way. 162 games for what was it? Subsid Mayo didn't look like he used steroids. OJ Mayo, he he used steroids. Substance, public disclos typically drugs of abuse. It wasn't marijuana. You're not going to get suspended that long for marijuana. Okay. Well, anyways, he got probably not for marijuana. He got 162 games, give or take. Okay. Then yours was 86 games. Yeah. Too many games. Yeah. And then third place was interesting was Latrell Spreewell. Oh yeah. 68. Oh yeah. The whole when he, you know, choked Rudy Tomjanovich. DJ Carissimo. DJ Carissimo. Yeah. Rudy Tomjanovich is the one that got punched in the face back in the days when he played. I don't know if you know. Oh yeah, of course. I think it was Larry. No, Julius Irving. No, no, Larry Bern. Complete different guy. Big guy. He's a good Yeah, he's a nice guy actually. Punched him in the face, broke his jaw, and he had to sip. He had to you you can type punch Rudy. But anyways, and by the way, Lel Spreewell to me was one of the most exciting these guys at the time had who? Billy Owens. They had they had a very exciting squad, right, at the time. Maybe even Mullen was at the team with him. But with you, Malice at the Palace, right? You know, you know, things are things change when the a when when a sport creates new rules. After that game, they never allowed glass drinks because of that game. Did you know this? The last time they allowed glass drinks in the NBA was at this game. After this, they said moving forward, there's no more glass drinks and no more drinking in the fourth quarter. Is that what they that No more drinking in the fourth quarter? No, they alcohol stops in the four I think now stops in the fourth quarter. So, so, so look, I've heard this story god knows how many times. It never gets old. My son Dylan, you know, if he sits there and he wants to watch some video sports, he says, "Dad, can we watch Malice at the Palace?" You can watch Ronaldo score a goal, Messi score. I want to watch Malice at the Palace. Walk us through what happened here. I don't even think the foul was that big of a foul, but just give us your foul. You see the score. So, we were winning the game, you know. Um, and it was it wasn't that big of a foul, but you know, I know what happened. Like, so one, they were down. I've never given up free layups. I'm not And just because it was Ben, I'm not going to give up a free layup. And I saw Chanty was on a podcast and said, you know, uh, Ron foul Ben, he must not have known what he was doing. Like, as if I didn't know I was f fouling like a shack. Like a like as if I was scared of a gorilla. I'm like, you know, yeah, I knew what I was doing. I was fouling Ben Wallace. Of course, I know what I'm doing. And then, but as I as I foul Ben, you know, he uh reacted. Are you guys at that in that season, are you friends? You guys talking? I've never No, we're definitely not friends. You've never been friends? No. Till today? Uh I think we would see each other and say hello. Like I don't have no problems with Ben. But But it's not like you guys are like Oakley and Jordan were friends. It's not like one of those things at all. But was there animosity? Is there anything that maybe he got an award that you didn't get or you got an award? Is there anything there? I think the defensive player of the year is because when he got his in 2002 in 2002, I was an emerging defender and I wanted that award, he won it. Then he got it again in 2003. In 2003, I bet I think I made first team all defense and I was locking a lot of people up and I'm like, man, I should have got that award. In 2004, I actually get the award. So now he has two, I have one. Then you got the next year is the brawl year. Now keep in mind in 2003 for me, I got the most text and the most fragrance I think uh in the league. And 03 03 and I think like the the media was like, you know, meta is too wild. We're not don't just give him that award. I think they just gave it to Ben. Not like he earned it, but I think it edged. Um 2004 I had my head on a little bit more straight. 0304. the next year I get suspended. So the next year I thought I was going to win it because not only you know am I still the best defender I believe but my average is up you know it went up to 24 before I got suspended. So now I'm you know so now and then keep in mind the year I got defensive player of the year I finished number six in MVP voting. No A lot of stuff they keep away when it comes to me because you were number six MVP voting. I finished number six. Wow. Hey what's up? I'm met world peace the chairman of artist management group and now I am officially on my neck I want you to reach out to me I got a lot of things to offer whether you wanted to chat about sports basketball on the business side business development consultation brand strategy foreign relations and more I look forward to connecting with you on my neck that's averaging 18 points so what so check this out so that's averaging 18 I make 13 NBA at 23 3 years old. So check this out. If I got that and you know, oh that's the I got defense. Yeah. Okay. You see? So So if I got that, so now I'm at now the next line under is 24. That's MVP. That's six points more and we the best team in the league. We had the best record the year I got defensive player of the year. So I think that was my that I talk about that window. That's that window that that's that window. Like Shay Alexander, you know, MVP. We don't know when the next time he gonna get it. So I think that was my year. That was my window to get MVP. So, and so, so you guys defensive player of the year. And is is the NBA hyping it up that you guys are, you know, rivals and all that other stuff? Is that Are they doing that or not really? Is it just something that you and Pistons was there? Oh, we was rivals. Yo, for sure. You were rivals at that time. We we wasn't rivals from the perspective of like, you know, it was generated by media. It's because we created that. The Pistons and Pacers, we created that. Now, they came out on top because they won, but we competed really hard. And internally, we we even say I I'll speak to Rip Hamilton because me and Rip probably I speak more to Rip than any of them. And I'm cool with Rasheed and and also and Chanty and and Taan. I know Taan for so long. And you know, I like these guys. But when we played against each other, you know, it was it was a different So, he comes in, it's not a hard foul. It's a foul. Hard foul. It is a foul, but not a hard foul. And then he reacts. He react. So immediately when I fouled him and he turned to me, I was trying to say sorry. Not maybe not sorry but you know maybe my bad because if you if you look at my reaction and I that's what I was doing. I remember that. You know Rob, can you play it so so we can get commentary from because you know and by the way I don't know if we can play it on the on the podcast or not. Maybe we can maybe we can but if we can play just to get commentary I want to see this from Yeah. Yeah, his perspective cuz God knows how many times I've seen this thing here. I know too many times. Is that it? That's definitely part of it. Yeah, that's definitely part of you. Click on it. You can play on that one, Rob. They're definitely going to play it. Okay, so here we go. Back up a little bit. So, yeah, show the foul. No, you have to show the foul cuz I have You have to see the foul, Rob. Yeah, that picks up at the push. Let me see. That's still Yeah, go to another. And we got to go to the one above right there. Check that one out. That's it. Okay, that's it. So, go back a little bit. This is just going to show the foul. Watch this. So, you're going in. So, hold it right there. Okay. Now, that's not a That's That's definitely not a soft foul. Let me Let me be It's not But it's not a flagrant tool or flagrant one foul. Did they call a flagrant one on that or No, that that was a That was You know what? It could have been a flagrant, but Or could That's a flagrant. Okay, that's a flagrant. That was Now I can see why I've been You know what? It's like when you slow down a little. Well, I didn't I didn't I never saw it this angle. And this is Keep in mind over the last 20 plus years I said it was a soft foul. Now you're calling a flagrant. Well, I'm calling that a That's a That's a That's a flagrant. You didn't make a play for the ball. Well, I I I wanted to make a play just to grab him, but it was a weird angle. I don't know. Look at my eyes. Is that Is that a left hand? No, that's a that's a that's a flagrant. That's actually a flagrant. The right hand goes for the ball at least a little bit. the left hand. I never I never even seen it like that, by the way. I've never seen this ankle myself. I've never seen this. Great. So, can you Rob, can you find the other angle? He He hit you in the neck. Pause it right there, Rob. Yeah. So, go for it. You were saying you were saying something. Well, before that, I see this angle. It's a It's a hard foul. Maybe it's not a flagrant. It's definitely like a warning, right? It's a warning. But when Now you see Now, look at my hand. Let me see if you keep going. Okay. I said no. No. Wait, wait, wait, wait. All right. I don't know if you're going to see it, but Well, you can go to the other the other clip because now the other clip shows the Yeah. So, after I fouled them right there. Right there. Yeah. I saw the right I was trying to be like sorry or I don't know. Um Yeah. Like Yeah. Like they like, "Hey, yeah, we're good." And and then he was like, "I'm he's tough and I'm tough." Yeah. Ben Wallace ain't no joke, you know? And and I but you see me, I'm not too worried, you know, cuz like was Ben known as a guy that would fight and brawl or no? No. Ben's just a good player. Ben's a very focused player. Look at me. I'm I'm chilling. So I'm not worried about I'm not worried. I'm laying on the scores, you know. So you were like lying literally like lounging. I think I want to say I'm really chilling. I'm not worried because because you know I didn't want to turn up. Look, I'm right there. I'm not too worried. Now by the way, you can pause it here at this point. Is it fair to say Germaine is a gamer? No, Germaine's a Yeah, that whole team. He's a gamer. Like, no, no, no. Now, I'm not saying the basketball. I'm talking about like if things go down, Germaine is a gamer. This Yeah, Jermaine. All the whole team. The whole team is The whole team is full of dogs. The whole team full filled with dogs. Who was the toughest? Who was the whole David Harrison and you know, he was a big dude. Big Okay. David Harrison a dog. Jamal Tinsley, your point guard Jamal. Yeah. New York City. He was a street boy before Iowa State. I want to say Iowa State. He was a gangster, right? Street street before ball, you know. Um Stephen Jackson dog. Freddy Jones dog. There's nothing but dogs on that team. No. And was that Jameson Brewer dog? Who put the team? I think you had Kenny Anderson, the point guard. No. Kenny Anderson was on that team. Old school. Who put that team together? Donnie Walsh. Who put the together? Donnie Walsh. He intentionally was looking for dogs. Like he was looking for dogs. He got him too. And And so play keep playing it, Rob. Keep playing it. So So there you are lounging. So as I'm lounging like the referees had no control, right? So the referees, you know, Ben won a fight to come watch closely. And they hold I mean, you know, so he's throwing stuff at me now. That's why I got up right there. But up until this point, this is nothing out of the ordinary. It's a little scuffle until something gets thrown. No, what's out of the ordinary is that they didn't eject. They got to make an ejection. Like there was no control. The refs had no control. All right. Typically, you would be like, "Jeed, foul, ejected. Oh, do it again. Warning, warning, warning." It was like they was like, "Oh my goodness, is people's going like had no control. Make some decision." So if if Ben would have been ejected, foul. Yeah. Oh, you're running after him now. Stop. Oh. Oh, I can't hold you. Ejected out of here. That's how that goes. So, now that you're watching this, should they have ejected both of you? I don't I mean, maybe if because they was eject I was always getting ejected for looking at people. I got ejected for looking at people the wrong way. But in this situation, I mean, I think you call the foul. Yeah. You call the tech on Ben for pushing or the warning and as he's running, you go get him and say stop. As he's still going, at some point there has to be a tech. Mhm. There was never a tech in this situation. So, by the up until this point, they haven't called a tech or foul or anything. Not one tech. Only the foul that they called. Only the foul. And that wasn't a flagrant back then. That was I mean, no. Did they Did the refs call it a flagrum back? They just called it a foul cuz it was But it it was a little I mean, you got to think about it. They were down. They former champs. They were down and then Ben had to go to the free throw line. Probably was going to miss one of one, right? You know what I mean? So he probably was going this is the beginning of the next season after they won the championship. After we we This is in November. The season starts in October. This is 10 games in type. So So now watch. Keep playing it. Now it's about to happen. They said it wasn't a big game, but for us it was a big game. Mhm. And you you did this in their house. Yeah. For us it was we So you're still lying on the B on the Reggie Miller like good Ben Wallace doing his thing? And I'm just trying to like just like get this over with already, you know, like and then suddenly someone throws Mike Brown yelling. She I don't know how to freaking time. What? This is the other. No, this is Well, I wish Steve would have guarded him. Actually, you're going to blame it on Steen Jackson. Come on. Throwing Ste Jackson under the bus. No, not He's out there with all the smoke. So, they haven't dropped a Nothing's been dropped yet. Nothing's been dropped yet. F. It should happen trying to calm things down. Actually, three point shooter, man. Lindsay was fun. Lindsay was incredible. Yeah, he was fun to watch. Oh, I wish they didn't have Oh, there it was. Cup. Ben runs back. Wait for it. Okay. See the cup land on him. Now, now here the craziest fight NBA history ensues. All right. Here's the unfortunate situation. That's one way to put it. Here is the unfortunate situation. By the way, who's telling you don't do it? Is anybody telling you don't do it? Cuz don't do what? Stop. Like, come back out. Is anybody trying to stop you? I didn't see Steven Jackson stopping you. No, it was mass. Yeah. I don't think the referee blowing a whistle at this point is stopping. But you got to realize somebody somebody's got to be like, "Look, bro. We gonna get suspended." No, no, no. Not in there. Not at that point. Because what happened was so when the guy hit me and by the way the guy made a $50 bet that he could hit me. So that's what it's on my docu documentary. Yeah. So he he betted the gentleman he was here. Another gentleman was here. This guy betted this guy that he couldn't know. This guy betted John Green that he couldn't hit me for $50. So then John threw the cuff and hit me who's a kind of a friend now actually. He threw the cup and hit me and then the other gentleman raised his hand like, "Oh, you did it." And then when I got hit, that's the first thing that I saw. You thought it was, "Oh, you did it." Yeah. But and then people said, "You hit the wrong guy." But it wasn't the wrong guy. They Wasn't there someone on the floor that you came up Let commentate this. Keep going. So I'm trying to see who threw it at you. Yeah, they got So they they hid the frame. It was like when the when we was in court, they showed frame by frame. Can you go back, Rob? I want to know who who you know. So when you when he runs up. No, no. A little bit back when he first runs up. Okay. Right there. Okay. Let it go. Let it go from here. So Okay. Pause right there. Who threw the cup? So John in the white hat, my friend John. Okay. He and he bet the guy other the guy bet the guy I'm attacking right now. Um. And so you never hit John? I didn't hit any of them. I I shook the Ryan. I think his name was Ryan. I didn't ever punch anyone in the face. Not until the other guy that came up to you. The guy that came up to me. Yeah. He tried to attack me on the court. I didn't touch I didn't punch none of these guys. These guys I just shook him. I just held him like don't you ever throw no cup at me. Play it right from here. Right. And then John punched. Okay. You don't punch Well, you're trying to slap. I I'm like, "Don't you ever throw." Yeah. And that's John holding you back. Yeah. John Someone threw another threw another. This is the greatest fight in NBA history. I mean, right. And then John punches me in my face from behind right there. Now he's punching me in my face. Are you joking? John punch you in the face. He punched me in my face. Go back a little bit. I've never seen this. John punching you in the face. I He's punching me in my face. Right. Right there. Right now. Look. Look at See, I see. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that. That's me getting punched in the face. Wow. So John, what did John do? Was John a tough guy or just a fan? Like so John, so when you I was so depressed after this. So years has passed. Just um pause it for a second then you can go. So what happened was um in 2007 I was trying to become like undepressed. So I started to reach out to everybody in that area in that in the situation. So I reached out to John. We actually had a conversation became like friends, you know. So but John's situation um he was a aaa. He was already an AA at this point. Got it. He wasn't even supposed to be drinking. I learned a lot about John Curry friends and um and he was also going through a little bit of issues with his family also. So it was also there's a backstory to him that I'm also sympathetic even though he he lost me tens tens and tens of millions of dollars lost so much money so much opportunity cost but that don't really affect me as much as his story you know I'm more like he was going through stuff too and as I'm on the board of UCLA psychiatric I have a soft spot for people that's going through stuff so which is unfortunate but it's just how just how I made up. Wow. So Rob, keep playing it. Keep playing it. So, so, so, but yeah, in this moment, lower the audio a little bit, Rob, because we can hear it. So, okay. At this point, it's going back and forth. At this point, it's back and forth. So, by the way, did Ben and you did Ben at all hit you? Did any of the pistons at all hit you during this? Well, Ben was just throwing his uh band his wristbands when I was on the table. It's tough to hurt you with wristbands. Well, yeah. It was It should have been a tech. Okay. So, you're That's Wes Wes. Wes got me. I almost got pepper sprayed. I didn't even know it. So the cop was coming up to pepper-spray me and the guy that's holding me. Worldwide West. Oh, Worldwide West. Worldwide West. That's World West. If it wasn't for him, I would have got pepper spray and arrested on the floor. Henry Brown is right there. Pause it. Pause it. Yeah. Wes got me. If you see the tape, you'll see the cop had the pepper spray because the guy when I got back down to the floor, then the other fans tried to punch me. Two fans jumped me. Two more fans. They jump me. They They literally jump me. Oh, Rob, if you go back in the other clip, the other clip will show the two fans trying to jump him. The one that was Yeah, that's the one right there. Watch this. So, this keep it playing. Let it Let it go. Okay. So, boom. That's that. And then this is when it drink hits. Man, what a disaster. Yeah. And then it starts and there's John. See, John was like, "Oh, see John. See John." And then this is it. Yeah. This guy came and attacked me. Who's this guy? Yeah, he knocked him out. How How are they on the floor? That's my point. Boom. And then Jermaine O'Neal comes and start talking. Oh yeah. So he slips what he You see what I'm saying? And they like at now watch when is that Chuck Pson? That's Chuck. Yeah. That's my guy trying to get him out. Chuck was a greatie. Chuck was incredible. Chuck was a shooter. Yeah. So this game was uh Oh, now they're pouring drinks on you. Scott, by the way, they just did that to Demarcus Cousins a couple days ago. I saw that. So let let's Mike Brown. So, so, okay, Ron, Meta, you this ends. Yeah. They stop the game. It's over. Like, everyone's going home. Nothing's going to be happen. You're in the locker room. Like, what's going on in the locker room now? What's going on with the chaos? Like, yeah, the locker room was weird because, well, for me, I worked so hard. I was I was in therapy. I'm doing everything I got to do. You know, I'm on the table. I'm not I'm not engaging with Ben, you know? That's all things I practice in therapy. So, I'm like So, I'm like I'm in a locker room. I'm like, "No way. that this has happened. So, so much is going through my head. Like, I'm averaging 24. You know, I'm gonna be an allstar again. I'm gonna be the first team all defense again. You know, all this is about to happen. You know, we're gonna be the best team in the league again. This is You talking about when I was in the East. You talking about when Kobe was in the league. We had the best record when Shaq was they was in the league at this point in time. Ready? You see what I'm saying? So, this is legacy right here. So when I got into that locker room, I asked Steve and I said, "You think we I asked Steve and Jamal kind of a general question. I said, "You think we gonna get in trouble?" Cuz I'm just like, "If this is if I if I if I know David Stern and if this is what I think it is, I am done." And I and then Steve was like, "Yep, we are done." I was like, "Oh my goodness." So I, you know, so it was it was like it was definitely the worst day. That was probably the worst day of my life for sure. And then also now the worst day of my life was in 1999 not getting drafted by the Knicks. It's the second worst day of your life. Are you saying you were already in therapy prior to that fight? Yeah. So I had anger management problems as we all know. So no I kind of don't want to make a joke about this now. Hey man, it's okay. It's okay man. No, we could do a whole stand up show on this. Honestly, brought to you by Value Tamement, man. By the way, MVP voting that year. Nash is one, Shaq's two. That's the one where Shaq's like he thought he took it from him. Durk is three, Duncan is four. Uh AI AI, LeBron McGrady. Not this year. So maybe is that 0304? Is that 0405? Oh, sorry. No. All right. So this is after I got I'm talking about 0304. Yeah, this is 045. Garnett, Duncan, Germaine O'Neal. What else to say? And then Pedro Stoyakovich, Kobe, Shaq, Ben Wallace, kid for MVP. Yeah, 03. Uh, this is 034. I thought I finished six. Well, let me check one of Maybe it's a different one I'm looking at. No, you might be looking at the right one. Maybe I could be wrong. I thought I finished six MVP voter, but cuz we was the So, but but this happens. This is what I'm trying to get, Adam. What I'm trying to find out is the locker room after this. Yeah. Is is Brown even in the locker room? Is he talking to you guys? Oh, Larry Brown. Yeah, he's the other coach. Who car? Is Carile saying anything to you guys? Carl's trying to calm everybody down. Well, he knows it's done the seasons. He's He's about to lose two of you guys. Well, at that point it was so wild and the fans we wasn't even thinking about that. We think about getting out the getting out that building, you know, that was that that was so that at that point we know something has happened. So Carlo was just trying to calm everybody down and not let it escalate anymore. It was wild. It was a wild time. That's what everybody we all knew he was done. What's Miller? Is Reggie Miller in the locker room talking to you guys? Uh, people was outside the doors. The people was everywhere. Everybody's outside the doors. How long I was in I just went to my seat. How long from you leaving? Like right there where they're pouring everything on you, throwing everything on you to you guys in the locker room, shower, leaving. How long is that time? Oh, that might have been an hour. It might have been an hour. So you guys have an hour together. Well, they wanted to arrest us. Are you kidding me? Yeah. Some of Because you got, you know, people say, "Hey, ma, why you didn't sue?" Like that's not even in my makeup to sue, you know. You know, people sue. It's not even in my makeup. But I think you had any that could have went south for um the businesses. There's a lot of lawsuits that could have happened. You know, we none of us filed any lawsuits. You know, now some of the people like this guy said, the guy that um hit me, not Ben, the other the fan tried to file a lawsuit. He did? Yeah. He came out both of them tried to file a lawsuit. this guy, any of both of them. Look at these guys. Look at these guys. They were What happened? Any luck or nothing? No luck. No luck. Detroit with them, though. The district attorney of Detroit was incredible. Huh. The judge was like a little bit like the media got to the judge. It was, you know, it wasn't it wasn't Who is the best player on the team at that time? Is it Reggie on that on that team? Yeah. No, me and Jermaine. Oh, really? Yeah. Not not No, like that. Reggie Reggie was Oh, this is Reggie's second to last year. And me and Was this the year where it's kind of like, hey, this is a shot for Reggie to win the chip? This was the year Yeah, for sure. I mean, I was I was the leading scoreer on the team. Well, man, I saw a clip. Speaking of Reggie. I don't know if you were in it. I think Stephen Jackson was in it where they apologized to him and Reggie started crying. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that because he's like, "No, it's not your fault." Yeah, we felt bad. It was like, can you find that super emotional? Very emotional. It is. Yeah. Were you in that or was that just Stephen? No, that was just Steve and Reggie. That was just Steve and Reggie. Okay. He's apologizing saying, "I know this is your last chance and we kind of ruined it with the malice of the Palace." I ruined it. But Steve is saying we were Steve just being nice. Like Steve was just being a little bit nice. Um it was definitely probably the majority of my fault. Is that a rap? Yeah. Actually, I'm glad to see you because this I've never had a chance to tell you that I'm sorry. Uh, just let me finish though because like I we all understood what our motivation was for that season. That's true. It wasn't for us. It was for you. Yeah, for sure. Our whole motivation was for getting things done the right way and getting the championship with you Reggie. I never got a chance to apologize to you for my actions. Now with me saying that, I love you even more because you defended me because you knew that I was just being a loyal teammate. I wasn't, you know what I'm saying? I wasn't out there being a thug or nothing like that. So, it meant a lot to me. First of all, I got to take a drink cuz told you I didn't want to go there, man. I'm trying to hold mine in. You don't need to say to me, man. Come on, man. So, you don't need to apologize to me. First of all, beautiful moment. You young cats, when I say young, I mean Jamal, Germaine, Al, yourself, Ron, those last few years in Indiana, my best years. I didn't have my superpowers, but I felt and you guys made me feel like I was Superman. We had some dogs, man. We had a squad that was arguably and I played on some Indiana teams that were destined, should have, could have, but always came short. That team, we were we were stacked, man. Yeah, that team was crazy. We was definitely, you know, um we we that team was incredible and I was in my prime on the wing like nobody was getting nothing off. But yeah, you know, we you know, that's why I didn't really want to fight Ben or why I was like trying to go to squirrels table. I was in therapy. So after after my practices, after every practice, I had to go to therapy, you understand? So that's like going to So that's what I did after every practice. So from that perspective, was what what Jack was saying was was 100% right. So I I can take the blame because I didn't expect anybody to hit me. Like I was preparing for other things like on court, not getting texts, not being detrimental to the team, you know? I was the fan thing was like I I never saw that coming. Never saw that coming. Caught me off guard. So So man, can you imagine? You know, I I watch the game and I think about when we're talking today when was a favorite era watching the NBA. I'm like, you know, 90s, early mid 2000 and that's it. After that, it was, you know, of course 2010 Lakers were winning. I was good. Kobe, all that stuff, I'm good. After Cob, I'm done with the NBA. I don't have any interest in the NBA. I have not rooted for anything. I've been out, right? But to me, there's one thing that, and I wonder what you'll say about this, the one thing that made the game like right now. Okay. Uh, WNBA stats came out today. I don't know if you saw the stats that came out today. Since Caitlyn Clark's been injured, I saw that viewership has been down 55% since Since she's been injured, right? Wow. But guess what? For the league 53% decline 55% decline since her injury. Since her injury, right, man. And you got Angela, is it Angela Reese? Angel Reese. Angel Reese, right? And she's very good at getting rebounds of her miss shots and she she stacks those a lot. But she's so these guys but there is animosity in the game. Right. Right. There's a level of animosity in the game where fans who would I would never watch WNBA. Right. Right now you're like dude. Yeah. Caitlin's captivating. Caitlyn's captivating and she's a good villain. So it's kind of like going back and forth seeing what's going to happen. Do you think the NBA, maybe you you're gonna disagree with this, the game today? Yeah, I don't know. It is what it is, man. There was there was villains back then. There was animosity back then. It was true, you know, like I remember when Jordan wanted to go out, hang out with Oakley and Pat Riley was like, "No, you can't go do that. He's trying to soften you up, become friends with you. We're not doing that." There was a certain element of that. Do do you miss that? Do you think it'll ever have that? Or do you think it's just kind of like, you know, it's back now? You think it is? Yeah, it's back. If you look at the league now, it's aggressive. There's people that don't talk to each other. It's back. It's just that people that's not watching, they're basing their, you know, kind of comments and opinions on two years ago, three years ago, because that's what it was. But if you watch now, the league is really physical and there's people that do not talk to each other. Cool. Give me And I love that. I can't I don't know exactly, but I'm watching the games and you can tell like for example Ty um Hallebertton, the players called him the most overrated player. He's the most overrated a poll a player poll. That's right. I saw that because he talks a lot of trash. He he's not making friends with a lot of people out there. He's, you know, so right now the league is um it's coming back and but I think people that got turned off, they haven't watched recently because right now it's incredible. What do you think caused the NBA to be turned off? It's the lowest viewership since 1988. lowest viewership in the final of course two small markets I get that but it's the lowest viewership since 1988 what caused it I think uh the change I think because the is a global game right and I think now the money's going higher because now I'm not talking viewership what I'm talking about is what caused animosity to leave because the the leaving of the animosity wasn't because of Kobe Kobe was all animosity it happened after Kobe with LeBron what caused animosity to be gone in the NBA as a fan just a game doesn't it's like everyone's friends everyone's like oh you know me and Chris Paul are hanging out stuff you're watching with like I want to know you don't like each other I want to know there's a fight I want to know there's like you know the greatest UFC fight ever you know what it was this freaking you know Kabib against Connor dude Kabib wanted to kill him he wanted to and so as a fan it's the most viewed fight ever in the history of UFC and and today it's kind of like, "Yeah, whatever." You know, you know, we'll see what's going to happen. It's a little soft. And and by the way, I I don't disagree with you on how it is. I think Shay is a little bit calm. He's not uh he's not steering the pot and creating excitement. He's like, "No, we'll be fine. No, we'll be this." Versus Hallebertton's like, "Dad's getting kicked out. Dad's talking He's doing this. He's making fun of his dad's pants." And you know, you kind of seen that a little bit with him. But what caused the game to be softer? But I think um I think how we left the game the is the rules. I think um people were trying to move the game forward. I think they wanted to remove themselves from our era and then a lot of the the fabric has changed. The fabric was changing actually. And then you saw more people buddy buddy on other teams. More people before games laughing talking. I mean even Elton Brand my my one of my best friends who I love to this day. Like literally you guys fought in a you and Elton Bran got into a fight one time. We got to fight on the same team and Lamarum together. Yeah, we got me and Elton got in fight on the same team on on the lay line and that that came from playing against each other and then also in our practices, our Riverside church practices. Wow. Which was really intense. I was always intense in practice and you know I think um you know we were always taught no friends. So if I'm So me and Elton we got drafted together with the Bulls when we was playing against each other in practice at in Chicago. I mean, Elton is a big strong boy. You got to watch out for Elton. Clippers. Yeah, he used to be he a big strong boy, you know, and a and a man, you know. Was brand Clippers or was Clippers also also played very well. He averaged 20 and 10, I think, for his career. He's underrated underrated player, very underrated. But you know, so from that perspective, I we we we came up under the era of competing. You know, when me and Lamar would play against each other, who's a really great friend, I wasn't making friends with Lamar, you know. I wasn't trying to say, "Yo, what you doing after after this for dinner?" You weren't that guy. No, not at all. And those are like closest friends. And then you had some other people. If I don't know you, I definitely am not trying to get dinner with you or lunch or anything. But I think the good thing about being friends because a lot of players miss out on opportunities to do business together too. So you're talking about having a 10 year career, no friends, you know, that's so much opportunities where you could be Wow. So you're investing together doing business together. It's more strategic if you are friends to do more business. You should be friends. Honestly, I now you can still compete, but you know, go co-invest together. Like imagine if we're not talking as athletes, we can co-invest about real estate, doing this stuff together. So, I think LeBron started I didn't want to go right at LeBron, but LeBron started the friendship, but I think he was on to something, but at some point in time, you got to compete. So, I think I think now is a better balance, you know? I think now is a better balance. I don't know, man. I I got to tell you, I I don't I don't I don't I I don't like that. So, I want to show you this. I just want to know how you're gonna react to it. Okay. when you played against Michael or Kobe. Okay. Can you ever visualize Michael or Kobe doing things like this? I just want you to watch this and just give me your thoughts on it. I mean, you're you like obviously that's that's a flagrant, too. At least, right? That's a that's a hard foul on LeBron from for him to fall that way. Look at that. What happened right there? You think Michael and Kobe are going to react that way? Let Let it continue. Let it keep I just want to get your thoughts. Let it play, Rob, because it's going to keep showing you more of these. I love LeBron. I know you do. I know it's your guy. Okay, so let's watch this. Sorry, LeBron. I'mma comment on this one. Watch this one here. Look at that. What a hard foul by Paul George. Knocked them out like 20 feet to Here's another one for you. Watch this one. Watch this one. Watch this one. You know, I I've I you know, I don't know. Look at this. And that's his boy Chris Paul, by the way. They're friends. Look at that. Chris is like, they're both great actors. Maybe that was kind of like I want to show you I'm a better actor than you. No one's touched him. You can pause it at this point. Meta, be honest, man. You see this stuff deep down inside. Do you watch this and say this is part of the strategy, Pat? This is what you don't understand as a fan. He's been strategic. It's a strategy. It is a strategy. Where the strategy come from? It comes from the rule changes. It comes from changing the culture. It's not the players fault. It's the It's It's the referee's fault. Why doesn't Caitlyn Clark do this? She gets fouled all the time. She stands up. Why doesn't She's a different breed. Kaitlin's a different breed. Okay, so then that that's the point. Kaitlin Kaitlin's a different breed. She's old school. Caitlyn's a different breed. Kaitlin's old school. Kaitlin's tough. She's old school. She's different breed. Oh She She's a different She's from our Indiana. She can shoot though. She's a shooter. She for sure. Yeah, she can shoot. But have you seen when she gets fouled? What she does? She boom, she jumps up. Like she doesn't want you to feel like you hurt her. I was talking to one of the owners of the Fever and they were like, "Caitlyn's getting fouled so much." And I said, "Don't worry about Caitlyn." She said, "Yeah, but they're going to hurt her." I said, I said, "Don't worry about her. She is going to be fine. She's not worried." But, you know, I think so. I think when the when the referees are calling these flops, you know, that's where you say, "Oh, they're going to call flops. Well, I'll do it, too." I think there were I think but you got but but if they're flopping and the refs is calling foul. Oh but that that that is but again like too too Okay. So let me ask you take advantage of the rules. Let me ask you Michael Kobe plays today. You think they're going to flop the way they did the way this guy does. Um I I don't think so. But I do think if the ref the rules wasn't like that, you couldn't even do that. You see what I'm saying? That the rules was Watch this. This is Caitlyn. I'm only showing this against LeBron because she's from Indiana. I I want to give you credit. But watch this. Boom. What does she do? up. No foul. Okay. Oh. Oh. Oh, that was actually a dirty foul. That would that Yeah, that one. That one. You might have to use a different one. I mean, maybe not. That's above the neck, though. Here, watch this. Watch this. Boom. Boom. Boom. Okay. What does she do? Boom. She's a different breed. She like doesn't want you to think she's hurt. No, I love her. Yo, that's tough. I mean, he punched her in the face. Caitlin's like, "Don't help me up." I love Kaitlin. She's incredible. Yeah. You see? And to again to me up, look at that. Let's see. But she got She got Look at this. She got hit upside the head. Semi punch upside the head. And what does she do? She getting her senses back. Yeah. And so you can pause it right there. A part of me as a fan, and maybe this is just me as a fan, man. Dude, do you know like I was telling this guy earlier, okay? So you're a hater, you're this, you're that. Well, I'm I'm I'm a I'm a Kobe diehard Laker. I go back Ron I mean meta I go back Sadel Treat I go back Van Ax Anthony Peeler lefty elbow you know I'm that's how I am with the Bulls like Will Purdue Nikki Simpkins like Wellington all these guys are my guys but you know you watch I I so want to come back to being a diehard fan of the game and just just few things about it I think you might want to start watching I think I think if you want to come back to start watching the game I I think it's shifting. It's a huge shift right now. It's a huge shift. They're not calling foul. You got to watch some of these. I don't know if you watched the playoffs this year. I did. And you I don't know if you seen the whole They're letting them play and I love it. They're let slowly coming back. They're letting them play. Yeah. That's that's a part we got to get it back to the American game. We can't like Yeah. Let over and foreign people come into the let them come play, right? But it was a point in time where like Drag and Petra where they earned you seen Drag and get in somebody's face. He wasn't backing down. He came into the American game. Did you play against him? I didn't play against He was a jersey. He played for New Jersey. He played for Jersey. I would have overlapped it with him if he didn't, you know, he passed away early. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, we got to we got to get we got to get the American game back. The way they talk about him, have you heard stories about Dra and what they say about this guy? Incredible player. No, he was sick. He died in a car accident. I want to say what happened. Yeah, it was it was a rough situation. What happened with them? Incredible play right there. So, go ahead, Adam. I think you got a question. I think you were you were alluding to I don't want to put words in your mouth. You're saying that the European game is a little more soft than the American game. You're saying we want to get back to the American game. Yes. The European game. I'm not saying the European game soft is different, but we got to get in America. We got to get to our American game. What do you think, speaking of that, what do you think the the reason is that uh only nonameans are winning the uh MVP? It's because in America it's been Jokic. Yeah. It's um Shay. It's been Giannis. Yeah. It's been um who else has won it recently? Did Luka win an MVP or no? No. Okay. Giannis. Uh Luca. No, I'm sorry. Now you Luca Shay Joic oh Joel Embiid I want to say he was uh he's Cameroon I want to say point is that when's the last time that an Americanb born player has won the MEP what are your thoughts on the game change and less Americans being the man now because in America we have a culture problem and it's and it's seeping into our sports now the culture problem is we're not on the same page and because we're not on the same page we good or bad we rather not help each and let someone else come in and creep up and and grab territory, grab opportunity. This has happened outside of sports also, right? This happened outside of sports. And that's the problem with basketball is for example, we'll send our players overseas. We'll help the overseas players get better. They come back here. What do we do in America? We sent our grown men who just left college to go play against a 15year-old Luca, right? Cuz they playing overseas. But our 15year-old kids can't play pro. Well, who do you think is going to get better? The 15y old kid playing against men. You see what I'm saying? We And we're not we're not collaborating with like former pros like myself and others to help the game. So for now, we need to um it's too many gatekeepers in uh in American sports and you can see it now. We, you know, we're losing. I want to see us get back on top. Like I I really enjoy the foreigners and foreign players. I enjoy it, but not at the expense of us. Give us a shot. For example, another example, if an American player goes overseas, only two or three people can play on the team. If overseas players come to America, you can have a whole team full of overseas players. Call that's the maps. That's what Mark Cuban did. You can have a whole team full of overseas players. So now our American players can go overseas and maximize their dollar, their you know, right? Because there's no spot, but they can come over here and make a hund00 million. That's kind of like, you know, how the relationship between China and US with tariffs. Okay, China can come here and do business with everybody, but hey, you know, a lot of our companies can't do business in China and you know, they're not held to the same standards. That's I actually text my buddy RFK, I want to actually this is a huge this is a really important issue. If you love sports, you know, I'm not a this is an important issue to me where I need we need to be on an even playing field, right? So now it's like this is actually um uh what do they call it? Not global, not tourism, um diplomacy. This is this needs to be brought up. They got to open the borders in terms of give our American players opportunity to go to China, Japan, Europe, and open it up or now only two players can play on on You're an open border guy. I'm talking about shut down. Sports, sports, sports, sports, sports. I don't I know I'm joking. Can I give you another philosophy? I want to know what you think about this. Could it be that a lot of American players are way more focused on doing it for the Graham than actually putting in the work? As an example, there's guys who made it to the NBA or never made it to the NBA and they've been so focused on social media. There's a kid named Mikey. Mikey, you've seen this kid? No. No. Mikey Williams, I want to say, this kid had 5 million Instagram followers before he even made it to college. This kid, you ever seen this kid? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ronnie James. Talk about being coordinated before you've done anything, right? You know, there's another kid, Amari Bailey. A lot of these guys get famous because they could dunk, they could jump out the gym, they're getting millions of uh Instagram followers, but they don't develop a mid-range. They're not playing D. It's, you know, they're they're doing the the dunk thing and maybe they're shooting threes and by the time they're 18, they're tatted up. They're just, you know, pseudo celebrities. I think this guy's literally in jail right now. Are you serious? I find out Mikey Williams where he's at right I think he gets suspended from a I don't know. I don't know what happened to him is my point. And this is the and this is the disconnect because it's too many. He avoided jail time after being arrested for firing a gun at a gu a car full of people. Are you joking? Okay. So, here's a kid who's been talked about since he's a freshman as being the best player to to come out of high school, but now where is he to be found? How much do you think social media has been an effect on these uh young kids trying to get to the league? I think it's been an effect. Um I think also they got to lean on the veterans. There's veterans out there that played this game, myself, others that can help these young players. But because there's so much money involved, they detach. They keep keep it out, keep you away, and then they just, you know, you know, nurture these players and we can't go in there and help. We we should, us veterans that played, we should be in, hey, young fella, how you doing? Hey, young fella, how you doing? So, like I said, it's it's a culture. It's it's a total culture problem in sports that needs to be and we want to see it get better. They'll also, this is my opinion, might look at you and say, "Man, well, you don't know what it's like." So, for instance, I always find it so shocking, Mikey. This kid's done nothing. Five million followers. Then we have some guy Steve Francis, one of the greatest point guards I've ever maybe has like 30,000 Instagram followers. So, don't be fooled by the gram is what I'm saying. That's true. I don't know. I don't know if that that correlates to what what I'm talking about with the league. I think it's a very uh different uh uh comparison of of combining what I'm saying with what happened with the NBA. No, I I want to see animosity. I want to see fights. I want to see confrontation. I want to see all uh Ron, you know, it's funny. You you when was your rookie year? 99. 99. Rodman retired 2000, but you guys never played against each other. I'm so pissed at Rodney, man. The day I was going to play against Rodman, Mark Cuban um released him because he got in trouble. I'm like, Rodman, I can't believe you did. The day you're going to play against him, he released him and you never played against him. Maybe the day before something. He got in trouble. They released him from the Mavs. And it was I I was just I was ready to go see him. Robin's my favorite player. He's my favorite player. Robin player like 91 91. Like it's what a coincidence I got um suspended in Detroit where he played at. But Robin, I wanted to I wanted to win that championship that year for Robin. Reggie and then also was going to be Rodman. Do you think right now if the if the Indiana Pacers win, do you think Reggie deep down like do you guys Stephen, you, Reggie, deep down inside, do you want to see Pacers win? Is that is it? No. Listen, let me tell you something. Yes, 100%. So when they win, we win. That's how we feel. We was all at the game yesterday. We all at the game, everybody. Al Pacers was in the building. We got two more games and we need you. You were at the game yesterday. Yeah, we're going and I came here for you. I'm leaving. I'm leaving tomorrow morning and go back to Indiana. Dude, if you guys win, this is No, we need to win. We're going to wear Listen, that ring. It's going to be those players if they win it, they don't know how good that's going to feel to us. You We need them to win because then it's just going to validate who we were. If they don't win, then as an organization, as a as a collective, it's a, you know, It's a similar style of a team though. It's like it's a dog fight. It's not like if if you ask the average person who's the second best player on the Pacers. They have to think about it. Think about it. You got to think about it. Carile is the guy. See, don't forget about Rick Carl. This is not taking anything away from the players, but Carle is the superstar here. They have a superstar. Wow. And let me tell you what's happening with the game since the game is going back over because the because the malice at the Palace was Carlile. Was Carile. Oh, that is so ins. So fast. Yeah. Big. That is intense to go from there. By the way, I I pulled up some fun facts about you. Some of these things are pretty crazy. Okay. And and you tell me if these are true or not. Okay. One by one by one. First one. Did you really apply to work at Circuit City your rookie year when you're working when you're playing for the Bulls just to get a discount? Yeah. Yes. And I was a good worker. How much money was Bulls paying you? Were they not paying you enough to just stay? It wasn't that Well, if you're getting $999,000 your rookie rookie contract after tax, it's you know, it's not a lot of money. It's like anybody that's getting $500,000 a year after tax, they're probably they probably still have services, right? You you have services and you you know what I mean? You're not going to stop working. Do you see how the the perception you like, wow, cuz I'm in the NBA. Did they know you're a bull? Like when you're going there like a Chicago Bulls guy made it in the NBA is working at Circuit City. Like what did they say in the interview? Oh yeah. The guy was like, "You serious?" I said, "Yeah, I want to work at Circuit City after my practices." How many hours how many how many days did you work there? How long did you work there? I did it two days until it got in the media. And then Jerry Carlson is like, "What are you doing working at Circuit City?" I said, "Jerry, man, like I got too much time on my hands. I need a like you cannot be doing this. All right, so let me ask the next one here. All right, let me ask the next one here. So you were 37 with the Lakers to honor Michael Jackson's thriller album that was number one on the Billboard for 37 weeks. Yes or no? Yes. True. Definitely. So you're a Michael Jackson guy? Yeah, definitely. You know, I'm Michael Jackson guy. Um, I know he's been through a lot and different things happen, but when you look at songs like Hill the World, Black or White, you know, that type of stuff is like he really tried to give his all to the world and it inspired me as a child to like want to be good. Even like the song with the dolphin, what song was that? Um, yeah. Heal the world. Make it a better place. No, no, no, no, no. The one uh uh it was free Willy. Yeah. What's the name of that song? Like those sound. No, no, that's not it. Great. Will you be there? Yeah. Will you be the from the movie? Free Willy. The free Willy one. The free Willy. Free Willie song. Type in free Willy song. I did. That's what it came up. That's what came up. It's a different song. Maybe that's No, that's not it. That's definitely not it. Like I'm trying I'm trying to try to give No, you don't have it, bro. Don't do it because we're going to get flagged. The dolphin song. Dolphin song. Maybe it was. No, the orca. The orca. It was orca. It was orca. Michael Jackson. One of a kind song. Maybe it's down. I think that's it. Okay. So, I got another one for you. Maybe that's the name of it. Actually, I got another one for you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Will you guys think I'm right? But I forgot the like it's not in the hook. That's the name of the song, but it's not the hook. Usually the hook is in the song. Yeah. So, I got another one for you. Is this true? You once drank Hennessy at halftime while with the Bulls. Uh um maybe, maybe not. Well, you know, in the No. So, yeah, it was Yeah, it was a wild day. A wild day, was it? Yeah, it was a wild day. I was really 21 years old. I was kind of very reckless at 21 years old. Still in the NBA. Getting in the NBA. I was I was I I was a street mentality guy until, you know, I got older. When I got to Indiana, it was shifting. I was in therapy and then as I got older, it was slowly shifting and I was slowly now I'm just like a nerd and completely different guy. Transition. Yeah. So, and next one here. Your dad, was your dad a a Golden Gloves boxer and a Navy vet? My dad was a professional boxer on boxreck.com. You type in Ron Artes with Muhammad Aliola. You'll see my dad at the very bottom. Two in one. He was He was a great boxer, but then he had me. He met my mom and Yeah. Type in Ronald Art. There you go. Hey, Dad. There you go. There you go. That's cool. So, you know, couldn't even get a picture of him, though. Let's get something up there. He got knocked out once. He's two and0. He got knocked out once. That's cool. So what happened was we had What year was that? 1976. He had me in 79. So he met my mom in 77 and he just stopped boxing, but he wouldn't had me. So, you know, you beat the girl and you was he teaching you how to fight? Was he was he a guy that was like, "Hey, you got to learn how to defend yourself or No. So, he never So, I I would go with him to the boxing ring sometimes as a kid, but as I started to learn, he didn't want me boxing. So he he started to hide boxing from me. He started to hide boxing from me because he didn't want me box. I wanted to be a boxer. So as he started to hide it as I got older in the NBA, I said, "Dad, I want to box when I retire." So I was 24 right before the brawl. I said, "Dad, I want to box." I said, "I want to give you four fights." He and he got Angelo Dundee on the phone before Angelo Angelo Dundee said, "Listen, you sure you want to fight?" I said, "Yeah." But I said, "It's gonna take me 10 years." Because Mike Tyson, it took Mike Tyson about 10 11 years ago to get to win. So I said, I'm definitely not doing it now. I want to do it when I'm 35. So I was going to train with Angelo Dundee. We talked about a lot of different things. But then the brawl happened. When the brawl happened, what what year he what year he passed away? 2012. He passed away in 2012. Okay. Yep. So when the brawl happened, um I didn't want to come out and say I was going to fight because I was going to actually come out that year and say I was going to fight. Bad timing. Bad timing. So I just said, "Ah." Were you a tough guy? When you were a kid, were you a tough guy? We always fight. And like when I talk to Tyson, Mike will say, you know, since he was 9 years old, one time he he just went like this. He says, "I was afraid to fight." He says, "One time I just went like this, knocked the guy out." The guy's dad comes and he knocks the dad out at 10, 11 years old. young kid. But were you like a tough guy? Were you a fighter from the beginning? Like No. Uh I was and I wasn't. I think Yeah. I think I I got suspended in prek, kindergarten, every year in school. PreK. PreK. I got suspended. I fight in prek. I fight in kindergarten. And what do you mean you were not a fighter? If you got suspended in prek, who gets suspended in? Yeah, I think I was a fighter. Yeah. But who were you in high school? Of course, you're a star. or you're b you know you're doing what you're doing in basketball you know you put on the numbers but in high school if they go back classmates they're in class with you who would you who would they say Ron was high school was different I went to all boys Catholic school so I I got suspended my first year but then not no more after that I did get suspended in the ninth grade but then every year after that I didn't get suspended so then you didn't get in trouble no I was I was pretty good I was focus I had a 60 I had a D average my first year in Lasal Academy looking at my freshman year look at my face I'm mad That's not you. That's me. I'm mad for no real mad for no reason. Mad for no reason. This was in Is this in Queens? This is the South Academy Second and Second in Manhattan, Second Street and Second Avenue. The that summer that year. Was that the same time that the movie He Got Game came out. Oh, around that time. Around that time. I forget. Yeah. Ray Allen. Ray Allen. Jesus Shuddlesworth. They had a bunch of different NBA players. I just watched that movie a couple months ago. What a great movie. I mean, this was going on in your city. They had a bunch of basketball 1998. Yeah, that that that picture was 93, the one you just saw. No, I'm saying. But you were you were in high school in '98 or you just graduated? I was in college. Okay. Gotcha. St. By the way, what was it like? Because I remember in in 98 when you know what 97 when Felipe Lopez, right? They call him the Dominican Jordan cover of Sports Illustrated. Like this guy was supposed to be it. And yeah, what what happened with him? College and he comes and plays a few seasons in the NBA, four, five, six seasons. What happened to Felipe? Felipe should have went to the NBA out of high school because when he went to college, they started double teaming him. So, his stock dropped. Then sophomore year, they they they uh putting more strategies. So, now he should he should not leave and didn't make the tournament. Then junior year playing a little bit better, but now stock is dropped. Other people are coming. And then senior year, I get there, I take him to the tournament for the first time ever. I get to St. John's and I bring Felipe to the NCA tournament. He gets drafted number 26 in the NBA. He had a great NBA career actually until he got hurt. He was he was like a a Bruce Bowen but a better offensively. I mean he played six years. He was about to sign a big deal really and then he um had ACL tear. Wow. So So he actually had a good career. Really? So you would say he had a good career? He is. He was he was having a good career. I mean what two I mean only two points for I look at I look at earnings earnings says 600,000 first year Grizzlies. Second year the Wizards 831. third year Timberwolves 565. Fourth year Timberwolves 637 career total $2.63 million, right? And and after that cuz he was a he was a low pick. He was a first round pick, but after that they were going to sign him because he was playing well. What's his averages? That's his averages. Um he was averaging 93 rookie year 45 817425 career average to the right. Far to the right 5.8 career. He wasn't getting buckets. Well, if you look at the year, he was averaging seven, 45% field goal percentage, 3.5 56%. I feel like he played in a I thought he played longer than that. Yeah. I I But you see him in the playoffs, like you go to the playoffs, he had four points. Like he wasn't the best on those teams. 13 minutes. So you could do something with that. Yeah. because you're not getting a lot of volumes, but the how the organization sees it is this guy is a good piece. So, you're not going to get Garnett money, but you can get a million, two, three million. So, they was going they was about to offer him a good deal. By the way, similar thing happened. Demarcus Cousins was going to get paid. He was going to get paid $120 million. That was a tough incredible. Oh, he was rid video with the fight and what they did. I don't know if you got that video or not, Rob. Why is Demarcus Cousins playing ball in Puerto Rico? People love the game, man. And you got to if you can't play in the NBA, you you try to go overseas. Yeah. You you try to go to Israel. You try to go to Spain. I love that idea. You'll try to go to Turkey, China, but those are not those are not available. It's it's great. It's such an innocent answer. People freaking love the game. Yeah. Can you play Does something happen here? No, you got to go to the different angle right here. One Yeah. Rob, see if you can do the angle that shows uh Demarcus Cousins walking towards the fan. I don't know if you can find that. This is it. Yeah. No, no, no, no. You got to go. You gotta This is This is the tail end. This is afterwards. This is the tail end. So, he has it. He has what happens with him at the game. Yeah. This is it right here. Watch this. So, fan starts talking trash. He says, "What?" Flipping him off. Yeah, you can't do that. But he was really flipping him off as a fan. This is where this is Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico. Wow. Flipping him off. That's insane. He comes after him. That isn't, by the way, I don't know if I've seen fans stepping up and flipping off, you know, at at and then they escort him out and that's when they start pouring beer all over his head. Rob, I think he had I was a big fan of this guy. I wanted to see him get paid. I wanted to see him, you know, he he had one point. I think he averaged a season 288. Like he had a 28. He was incredible. This part right here, here's where it gets ugly. Now, here's where it gets weird. Yeah. Now we start trying to tally tackle him out. You got to take But what what is the line that's drawn between fans talking smack versus No, you just crossed the line, dude. Now we got Rene, you're talking about Europe. You're talking about out of America. This is I mean, Puerto Rico is obviously, but you're talking about out of the mainland where the rules are different. I was in Italy and they they throw coins at you and batteries when you're going to Europe. This is normal. This is like 30 years, 40 years. They're like soccer fans in a basketball stadium right there. Exactly. But what do you think, even in America, what do you think is crossing the line? Because we all know about smack talk. We talking trash. You suck, bro. Right. Right. But at what point is like, "Ah, bro. You say something about my mom. We're going to have a problem here." I think I I think back mama mama jokes are crossing the line. I know I got somebody told me my mom is a horror. I was at a plane. I was so mad. I was I was sitting here. I was I was in Detroit actually. and Detroit again. It was uh but I I was like, you know, this is normal. This how that's how the fans are. Your mom is a Like, what? Oh, I was so ready. Funny. I mean, by the way, you you hear stories about Payton talking about your wife and your girl. You hear stories about Michael. I've read some stories about Michael. Yeah. There's some vicious stories about Michael. Some of these guys That's player to player though, right? Yeah. Meaning they they can take it out on the court. I'm talking about a dude in the third row being like, "You ain't I think that's okay." But I think crossing the line at a certain point, if they're just talking, I think just talking is okay. Obviously, I think if you doing I think racial slurs is like that's like too much cuz come on. Like but I think everything else like you suck, you know. I think that's okay, but I think um throwing stuff that's of course didn't LeBron like approach a fan or try to get a fan ejected. He got He did he got he's gotten multiple fans ejected, but they were saying something about like did as well. Westbrook did as well. But again, Adam there is touch me, throw stuff at me. From there on, bro, these are that again. I like to see the element. You go to UFC fight. Have you ever been to UFC fight? Oh, yeah. Okay. So, you go to UFC fight, dude. You know what they do at UFC fights? You know how crazy it is at UFC fights? Just boom, boom, boom, you leave. Just insanity. Energy is ridiculous. This got a little bit soft. I hope Ron says this thing's going to come back. I'm following it this playoff season. Yeah. Because finally it's just guys playing that just love the game and they want to win their first chip. Yeah. It's going to be exciting to see what happen. Last question before we wrap up. Toughest guy you played against that was feared by everyone during your era. Who was? And I'm not talking toughest guy like skill set. I'm talking like a like a gangster tough guy enforcer. You hear stuff about Vernon Maxwell in the 90s. You hear stuff about, you know, some of the other guys from the 80s. Who was it in your era where it's like these guys were tough and our era? I got in 99. I became a really cuz I know it was you. But outside of myself, um I think Shaq Shaq Shaq is big, but Shaq was also tough. He I don't think he ever crossed the line, but I think he also had that edge where if you cross the line against Shaq, he he'll cross the line, too. Remember his rookie season when he punched Alvin Robertson in the face. Right. Right. He Yeah. And Alvin Robertson's not a lightweight. He had a quadruple double in in the 80s at one point. Ironically enough, I think that happened again in Detroit. That's it. Yeah. This is it. Well, against Orlando, but against this, yeah, this is this is nice. I mean, watch this. So Lamir's again was like, "Look, get off of me." And then Alvin's like, "That was too much." And look, so Shaq is like, "It's okay." But then at the end, look what look what Alvin does at the end. Yeah. He was like, "That's disrespectful." He's like, "Get you against Shaq." Oh, man. And then then he's ready to get I think he was I don't know. He must Well, Pistons had got to be a tough guy for Alvin's not backing down though. Yeah, Alvin was not backing down, dude. Like good for Alvin. Rob, you know, you're going up against a guy by the way. You see Scott Ste right there. You know what the record is? You know the record. You know what the record is? most points in assists in a game. 31, I think. 31 or 33. Still got it. Still got it. Wow. Is that not crazy? Can you validate that, Rob? That Scott uh Dennis Scott right there. And that was from 93. March 30th of 199. Dude, that was Sha. When was Shaq a rookie? 92 or 93? I got his rookie card in '92. So, this must be his second year. This is when uh Pistons were on their way down and the Bulls were on their way. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. But not Rodman, though. Not Rodman, though. Everybody else except for Rod Rodman. Rodman was something else. Y Rodman was something else. Well, Meta, it's been great having you on. I listen, when I reached out, I sincerely wanted to talk to you and it was nothing else. It wasn't like business, anything. I just wanted to talk to you because all those years and it reminded me with the the game we were at, I'm like, dude, this guy literally single-handedly if you lose to the Celtics, then you lose game seven. That is so and at home that was going to be so embarrassing. But no, Ron Artist was in the arena brought it back and it was great to uh catch up with you and uh shout out to the Lakers, the bus family, you know, the front office, the players, you know, we love the Lakers, Los Angeles, we love you. And hopefully one of these obviously, you know, Pacers got to do what they got to do. You guys got a week and a half to go to celebrate and I'm sure I'll see you if you guys win a championship. I'm I'm sure I'm going to see you on there celebrating with them. But then the other one we'll celebrate hopefully is uh that the Knicks are going to give you a call and some Yeah, that would be nice. We're we're waiting my man. Appreciate you brother. That's what's great. Thank you. Take care everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Hey, what's up? I'm Metal World Peace, the chairman of our test management group. And now I am officially on my neck. I want you to reach out to me. I got a lot of things to offer. Whether you wanted to chat about sports, basketball on the business side, business development, consultation, brand strategy, foreign relations, and more. I look forward to connecting with you on my neck.