Gov. Wes Moore: Trans Kids, Newsom's Failures & 2028 Dark Horse | PBD #791

I got a bunch of things I'm going through this saying, "Wait a minute. Is this guy a Republican or a Democrat? Member of the College Republicans at Valley Forge Military?" When I ran for governor, I was not the Democrats' choice. You were like an underdog at the highest level. I was polling at 1% in my first poll. When you look at the current Democratic Party and you watch the positions they're taking, your [music] son comes in saying he wants to transition. What do you do? Um I've been asked Do you see Trump as your enemy? If you come after my people, if you say something against the folks in Maryland, will I respond? Absolutely, that's my job. You can come to Maryland to learn, but don't come here to lecture. This is a call you guys have. >> Yeah, then and and then it but it turned into a back and forth on Twitter. Crime, you'll typically hear Baltimore being in the top five. >> Listen, I refuse to be a governor who's just giving thoughts and prayers and offering eulogies for 8 years and not doing nothing about the violence. We're now seeing how Maryland's population is the fastest-growing population we've had in Maryland in over a decade. Your net migration isn't impressive. You're still ranked at the same place. 45th. I don't even know if it's a fair question to ask you. You're a governor, you run a state, Newsom runs a state, he's a governor. You've been able to fix the state. He hasn't been able to fix the state. What do you think has happened to the state of California with the way Gavin Newsom's led versus the way you've led? >> I I can tell you about what we've done in Maryland and [music] why >> You're going to play it safe. You can't give me that answer. You're You're You're leading all of these guys. Governor Wes Moore in the house. We're doing this. We are doing this, man. I'm so happy to see you. >> Likewise. I want to say this cuz I said it off camera, I want to say it on camera. So, anybody and everybody that brings up your name, who knows you, loves you. Okay, whether it's Stephen A. Smith, we're out there saying, "Pat, I'm telling you, watch Wes. >> [laughter] >> Watch Governor Moore." Ray Lewis, he's swear Ray Lewis is like, "I'm telling you, he's the guy. telling you." So, I mean, of course, you know, when it comes out to you know, on the political side, you know, your philosophies, ideology, we'll have those conversations as well. But, uh for me seeing guys that come up with one of the best stories out there. One fun fact that you may not know this, you know we're born 3 days apart. Get out of here. You're 3 year 3 days older than you. You're October 15th, '78. I'm October 15th, >> than me. >> no, stop. [laughter] Stop it. And then when we look at the background, well, what you've done, bachelor's, John Hopkins University. First black governor in Maryland's history, paratrooper, uh White House fellow under Condoleezza Rice, captain in army 1998 to 2014, served at the in Afghanistan, 82nd Airborne. Southern Baptist, church going, received bronze medal. You know, we investment banker in New York. I got a bunch of things I'm going through this saying, "Wait a minute. Is this guy a Republican or a Democrat? What do you You and I found something from old school telling me member of the college Republicans at Valley Forge military 1998 yearbook?" Well, you know what's funny and and I tell people this all the time. When I ran for governor, the I was not the Democrats' choice. The Democrats, they they were like 11 people running or whatever it was and we had statewide elected officials. We had two Obama cabinet secretaries. We had the former head of the Democratic Party who was running for governor and me, the guy who'd never run for office in my life. >> at the highest level? True. I was polling at 1% in my first poll. "I'm not voting" was polling higher than Wes Moore. And so, I was like the underdog of the underdog when I first started running. But, I was like, "But, I'm not running to be, you know, to to lead the Democratic Party. I'm not running because that, you know, I take any any party's talking points and just swallow them. Like, I don't do that and that's not my family's background, that's not my background. I was like, "Does it make sense or not?" And so when I ran, I wasn't the Democratic Party's choice, but it turned out that I was a choice of the people of the state of Maryland. Which is all that ever mattered to me. And that's exactly how I've tried to govern now, where it's like, you know, I'm not I don't take my talking points from party bosses. I don't do that. It's like, "Does it make sense for my people or not?" At what point when you were running for governor did Obama call you and say, "Hey, we're going to endorse you, we're going to support"? Did that call ever happen or no? >> No, that that did that didn't happen until the general election. I never got a I never I wasn't getting big endorsements in the primary. So the primary you did it all by yourself? No, the the primary we had a a bunch of the established Democrats were already endorsing other people cuz they'd worked with them and they're like they didn't know me. They're like, "We've never worked with What was the breaking point? What event happened? Was there a talk? Was there an event? Was there a speech? Was there a debate? Was there a You know what was interesting? You know what actually, it's interesting you said that. There is something called the Western Maryland Summit. Mhm. Western Maryland is arguably one of the more conservative areas in the state of in in the state of Maryland. I'd say probably about 77% in that area voted for Donald Trump in the last election. And there was a summit that went out there >> 2024. In 2024, sorry, 2024. And they have a summit every time there's a gubernatorial election and they do a straw poll at the end. And you go out there, you make your case, you talk about all the different things that you want to be able to do. And it's kind of a bit of a bellwether as to where things are going to go because this is not a traditional really a Democratic area. And I ended up winning the straw poll and like basically like doubling the person who came in second. >> Mhm. And part of it was because we just show up. We went everywhere. And part of you know, we went everywhere because people were like, "There's not a lot of Democrats there." But I was like, "Yeah, but there's a lot of Marylanders and I want to be your governor, too." But also it's like I need to go places where I can get any votes I can find because I I didn't have a machine. I didn't have I didn't come from that background. And when we won the Western Maryland straw poll, I think people were like, "Hold on. Something's going on here." 77% 2024 and you won it. That's exactly right. >> So then you go general, Obama then calls you because he sees that you could be formidable? Yeah, well after after we won the primary, Right. I think that's when everybody everybody then kind of came home at that point. We're like, "Well, listen. If he continues to run the race that he's running, he's probably going to be the next governor." Mhm. And so that's when people were like, you know, "Now we're going to come in and endorse his campaign." But that really did not happen because a lot of the establishment Democrats in many ways, for the most part. We had a couple here and there. But it's like but for the most part, they supported other candidates. Did I read it correctly that in 1996 in a New York Times article that somehow some way they were interviewed 1996 you're 18 years old they're interviewing you saying that you have interest in politics long-term? Is that is is that a real story? It um I think I remember that article. I mean, honestly, I don't know if I thought that or had it as clear as that. >> famous at 18 for New York No but how did that even happen? Did people know you were going places? Like was it something where in high school they kind of knew there's something very special about this young man? Well, you know what happened was I was a pretty good basketball player in high school. And was getting recruited by colleges and all that kind of stuff. And I decided to join the army out of high school. And it was kind of a curious thing. They're like, you know, you have scholarship offers to go to colleges. But you chose to join the army at 17 years old. And it was kind of two-fold for me. One was that um I was good but I wasn't that good. And like for example, like I played against folks like, you know, Kobe Bryant was in my same graduating class in Pennsylvania. And we're in in you know, he played out in the suburbs of Philadelphia. >> against him? So yeah so yeah so not only I have a great Kobe Bryant story about the time I actually first got to first got to meet him, but you play against guys like that. You play against guys like, you know, Stephon Marbury who were in the AAU circuit. And you just realize like they're just better. Like for them the game was easy. For them the game was smooth. For me the game was hard and it was just so much easier for them. So, that was one thing. But the second thing was I knew I wanted to lead soldiers. Like I was I was sent to a military school when I was probably 13, 14 years old. And I hated it at first. But it helped save my life. And so, I had a mandatory year in military school. After that first year my mother was like, all right, what do you want to do cuz you're doing better in school, things are going well. And I said if it's okay, I'd like to sit tight. Um I ended up finishing high school military school. I graduated as a cadet captain. So, I'm now 17 years old and I had 120 people under my command. And when I thought about what I want to do with my life, I was like, you know what? I I think I want to lead soldiers. And so, I had a chance to go play basketball in college and get scholarship offers, but I said you know, actually what I really like to do is I want to I want to join the army. And that was I think the reason the New York Times and them found it to be such an interesting story because it's just not usually what a a recruited high school basketball player does. >> But that is such a great story to say at 18 years old New York Times does a story, you're being quoted in it. I'd like to go into politics one day and then you become the governor of the state, you serve. It's a phenomenal story on what you've done. It's a On Cal sheet on Cal sheet you're at 1.9%. So, if you were at 1% governor I'm already doing better. >> right. You're already doing better. So, so I won't answer. So, a lot of people you talk to behind closed doors God is good. >> They say Wes is an event away from being a leading candidate. I don't know what that means. He's an event away. An event away, you know, whether it's a DNC, whether it's a uh heated moment of rising up, whether it's you know, but right now and and by the way, the reason why I think when I talk to Stephen A and we talk a lot about him politically, you know, you want to run you we have a lot of these conversations privately and I love Stephen A. We have a very very good relationship together. He's like a brother. I mean, we are we are uh but when it comes out he's he really is a good dude. I know he really is a good dude. Of course, his job he has to push the envelope and he has a lot of enemies, but he's comfortable in the limelight with the enemies which we learned you need this after the last few elections that we've seen. But on the Democratic side right now, when you look at it, this kind of what I want to go through and you know, but by the way, just so you know, Obama just tweeted something massive. Uh President Obama just tweeted something massive because of redistricting. We're going to get into that as well. I don't know if you've seen this or not. This just happened literally a couple hours ago. So, we'll talk about this here in a minute. >> That's great. But prior to going to that with redistricting, gerrymandering, all these other issues that we'll get into. When when you look at the current Democratic Party okay and you watch the positions they're taking and America has said, "Listen, we're not for some of these weird policies on what you're doing. We're just not, okay? You know, uh men competing in women's sports. That just doesn't make any sense to the average person who is independent because to win you need the independent and the libertarian voters, right? And maybe some of the disgruntled Republican voters. You need them to kind of flip a little bit. But you need the independent. Yes, you'll get the Democrats if you say trans and all this stuff. I also believe on the Democratic Party there's a couple percent that they're not game with some of the stuff that's happening. So, open-ended to you. >> Yeah. Uh we we see right now the gubernatorial race taking place in California. You know, Katie Porter and and Hilton and all these guys are debating the resume of Newsom and he's going to have a hard time with his resume. So, if there's ever been a time that any Democrat can come out of nowhere that it that can have some sensible policies you know this the first time in 25 35 years that no leading Democratic candidate is at 25% and according to CNN polls this hasn't happened for 35 years. So we're not used to that. What what does Wes Moore what does Governor Wes Moore believe in? What values do you believe in? Oof. Um you know honestly I think the heart of what I believe in is what the army taught me. And it sounds simplistic but it's it's actually not. It's when we're 17 and we first joined uh I remember on day two we learned this concept of leave no one behind. Ever right? You get one of my people I will send a battalion in to go get them if I have to cuz we leave no one behind. Um and that's very much how I view the world. Where I just feel like we have an obligation like if I'm starting with 10 I'm finishing with 10. That everybody's going to matter as we make it across the finish line and mission accomplishment isn't that one component of mission accomplishment is actually did you take care of all of your people? Did all of your people make it back okay? And I actually think that's the right kind of guidance in terms of the way we think about our our our policy work like you know and when people say well in you know for example you talk about public safety that Republicans say law and order and Democrats say you abolish the police or whatever or like do you support law enforcement or do you support community? My point is I don't I don't think you have to choose. And so like for example what are we doing in Maryland? Well we had a crisis of violence in Maryland when I first became the governor where Baltimore City in 2022 was averaging almost a homicide a day. And I said listen I refuse to be a governor who's just giving thoughts and prayers and offering eulogies for eight years and not doing nothing about the violence. So we made historic investments in local law enforcement. We made historic investments in technology and analytics and and stopping crime before it happened. We made Maryland one of the only states in the country that helps to fund the US attorney out of balance sheet. So, if someone commits a violent crime with a firearm, not only am I going to have you in handcuffs in 24 hours, chances are we're going to work this to make your case and take it federal, right? And we invested in community violence interruption. And we work with the mayor and the state's attorney. And the results have been that now Maryland has one of the fastest drops in violent crime anywhere in the United States of America since I've been the governor. The last time the homicide rate was this low in Baltimore City, I wasn't born yet. And we're literally talking statewide, nearly a 50% drop in violent crime. But, it's because Lowest in 50 years. Lowest in 50 years. But, it's like but it's because I'm not choosing, y'all. This is not an ideology for me. This is not a political game to me. It's leave no one behind. And if you if you really believe in that philosophy, you will do anything to make sure that your people are good. Mhm. I think I think those two are very important. Leave nobody behind. You know, the whole defund the police was very weird. That campaign that happened early on. Everybody was confused saying, "What are you talking about?" Even Democrats are like, "I don't know if I believe in this or not." So, to give you credit, top 10 richest states per capita is is Maryland. Ranks top five in education nationally. Lowest homicide in 50 years. Strong access to portals, rail, East Coast trade. Port of Baltimore, major US logistics. Average home price, $200,000 which means people can still afford to get something there. Uh you know, crime-wise, Maryland and property crime, you're eight. Maryland as a state is now 15. It's not a top five. It's not a top 10. It's number 15. You you've done a great job improving it. But, let's go with it. Let's go to the next issue. Issues with uh Trump. Do you see Trump as your enemy? Do you see Trump as the boogeyman? Do you see Trump as you know, because right now you watch everybody campaigning. As long as they get up and say Trump say horrible human being, he's a criminal, he's a this, he's a that, I'm going to get the Democratic ticket. How do you view your relationship with Trump and Trump as an individual? So I I don't I don't view any of these people as my enemy. You know what I mean? Like I I just I never ran for office because I wanted to have fights with the President of the United States. Like that's that's so silly to me. Because every time I am spending time on that, I'm not spending time on my people. I'm not spending time on making sure they're good. Now, are there certain policies that I just vehemently disagree with that the president is doing? 100% >> Such as? I mean that I that I disagree with? Oh, I mean for example, what happened last year around food and snap and the attempt to cut snap for our kids, I just think that is abhorrent. Because these are children Mhm. who relied on this. And so like for example, what we did in our state, you know, we have you know, we actually have a fund called the fiscal responsibility fund, which is primarily made of of capital gains tax that we actually pulled about $63 million from that because I was like, I'm not going to let my children go hungry because Washington, D.C. was having a food fight. But the thing about it is is that while there are policies that I vehemently disagree with the president, I think we'd be foolish to not say but there are certain things that we have to be honest about that were good ideas and things that we want to lift up. I mean for perfect example, you know, the president was able to get something done that we've been calling for for over a decade, which is essentially baby bonds. Baby bonds, uh what he calls the Trump accounts. >> Mhm. This one of the best ways of actually being able to address things like the racial wealth gap and things like wealth gaps because if you can actually start investing in children there early and then have that continue to grow and materialize, Yep. it's one of the best ways of addressing things like wealth gaps. Well, the truth is we've been fighting for that for years. And the reality is a Democratic Democratic presidents have not been able to make that happen. But Donald Trump did. And so give credit where credit is due. I can fight all day long on the policies that I think are backwards, don't make sense, and in some cases illegal. However, the things that do make sense, give credit where credit is due. And I think that's important in in our in actual our Democratic process. >> Respect. Have you and him ever spoken? Have you guys had a Oh yeah. You guys have spent time together. >> Absolutely. No, we we spent time together. We had a you know, I remember the first time the first time we met was very was very interesting cuz it was actually at an Army-Navy game. And so, you know, I heard that the president-elect is coming to the Army-Navy game. This was This was a sorry, this December before he was like second time. And so I'm the governor that time. So I'm like, "Listen, he's coming to my state cuz the game is being played in Prince George's County, Maryland." So I'm like, "Of course." So he comes up and you know, vehicle pulls up, Beast pulls up, and gets out of the vehicle. And I said to him I was like, "You know, welcome back to Maryland, Mr. Mr. President-elect." He says to me he says, "You're a really good-looking guy in person." >> [laughter] >> He would say something like that. >> First words out of his mouth. So I was like I [laughter] was like, "Go Army, Mr. President." And and then he and then he started talking. He's like he's like, "My people tell me you're doing a doing a really good job." He's like, "How can I help you?" And we started talking about the bridge. Talking about the Talking about the Key Bridge in Baltimore. So I have I I have conversations with the with the President of the United States. >> What happened in February of this year when he was doing a national governor or something and you were uninvited and you said I don't know why I was not invited. What happened with that one? Patrick, that that honestly that was weird to me. Because I I like and I and I think about it where listen, there are governors >> Did you say something? Did something prompt it or >> And and so what happened was with that which was really weird is that there are governors who like spend a whole lot more time and you know, they are like going after him every single day. That's not me. Yeah. Cuz I'm just like, listen, if if you come after my people or you say something against the folks in Maryland, will I respond? Absolutely, that's my job. I'm the I'm the chief executive of my state, right? But I don't spend all day long focusing on the present like I'm too busy. I got to make sure that I'm fighting for my folks, right? And so when I got personally disinvited, I was like, "What did I say? Like there are other governors who are coming at your neck every day. I'm not like what did I what did I do?" And so I did not understand it. It was And And honestly, it wasn't a big deal to me because I'm not I'm not that interested in going to fancy dinners anyway. Like I'm I'm good. Like I'm fine. But it was very odd. And the thing about it that >> Who else was uninvited? Is it just you or >> It was just me and then and then and then um and then Jared Polis also was added on to it as as well. Did he explain why or no? Did he ever say why? >> Never. >> So till today you don't know why you were not invited. >> I've no idea. I would love to know why you were invited. >> no idea. Wasn't Was it around the time of ICE? Was it around the time of uh What would he think? >> So that But but even but but my my dispute with him about uh about actually was the National Guard. When he was talking about putting the National Guard in Baltimore, my dispute with him on that actually came months earlier. And the reason was because when he was saying, "Well, we you have to deal with your crime problem. So therefore, I'm going to deploy the National Guard like you did in Washington D.C." And I just told him I was like, "Mr. President, listen, you know, numbers are numbers. Let's be clear. Baltimore has had a faster drop in violent crime than in Washington D.C. even post the introduction Sure. of the National Guard folks. And I said, "If you want to talk about ways to reduce crime like we just talked about." I was like, "You can come to Maryland to learn, but don't come here to lecture." Because actually we're doing the work. We're doing the things >> This is a call you guys had. >> Yeah, then and and then it but it turned into a back and forth on Twitter, which I can't stand. Um but then he was just like, you know, then he started from the Oval Office, he's like, you know, uh that place is a hellhole, no one would walk through it and so on and so forth. And I'm like, that's that's our home. Like, you know, like folks in Baltimore, like we hear that. We hear that coming from the President of the United States. And you're talking about Baltimore, like those are Americans. Those are your people, too. And for you to come at us like that and and with the with just the the the ignorance was so offensive to me because you have to remember, these are these are, whether they voted for you or not, these are your folks, too. And you have to respect that. And so, um so, that happened that happened months before. And, you know, the thing that I continue to remind him when I when I told him was like, "Hey, listen, you know, you're you're disinviting me from a dinner from first of all, from an organization that you didn't make me a part of. The people of Maryland made me a part of the National Governors Association when they elected me to be their governor. And I was the I'm the vice chair of the organization. In June, I become the chair of the National Governors Association." In June? In June? Next month? 2 months? >> that's exactly right. And I said him and and Mr. President, you did not make me the vice chair of the National Governors Association. You know who did? The nation's other governors. Democrats and Republicans, they were the ones who selected me to be a leader in the organization. So, when he disinvited me, and again and again, shout out to all the other governors, shout out to Kevin Stitt, who's the governor of Oklahoma, uh Republican governor. >> He's a stud, by the way. I 6'5 6'6 He's huge. Very well-spoken. I am such a huge fan of Kevin. I I really am. He's just a he's a good good friend. And I remember and and we've had we've had some I mean, Kevin is actually probably one of one of my closest friends. I have a lot of close friends amongst the governors, but Kevin's right up there. And I remember when I told when I told Kevin, I was like, you know, the the president just disinvited me from the dinner. He's like, "What?" And I was He's like, "For what?" I was like, "I have no idea." And I remember Kevin was the first one to say, well, let's be clear. If one of us is not invited, it is no longer a National Governors Association dinner. And I was like, respect, Kevin. Wow. Good for Well, I heard him speak a couple months ago. I was at a Goldman Sachs event in Dallas, and he got up and he was selling Oklahoma. Because everything about the event was about Texas, and you know, Ross Perot got up there, you know, the the the the son or the grandson. He was selling Texas as the best play gold me in a play Goldman Sachs is coming out of the They're building their second biggest headquarters. And then he gets up there, says, "Look, I know this is a Texas thing, but let me tell you what we're doing in Oklahoma." I kind of like the way he handled himself. But you know, you know, Trump every once in a while will do things like that, and you don't know what the reasonings are. At that time, I think it could have been a little bit with the ICE agents. And by the way, he's about to call an ICE agent, so I don't know you saw that whole thing about him approving it being an ICE agent. But let me get back to this. So, question with SNAP. Yeah. Fair on what you're saying with SNAP. I have two questions on SNAP. One, are you for SNAP not being given to many of these illegal immigrants and folks who are taking it at percentages higher where that money needs to be going to Americans for people that need it rather than for people that are coming to take advantage of the system? Yeah, and and honestly, that's the way the system and it's it's structured now, right? Is that >> Abuse is there, though. Well, well, but then abuse but abuses is one thing, right? And abuse If if anyone is breaking the law, then of course you need to be accountable for being able to break the law. But what we're talking about and the way the system is structured right now is that it's a joint responsibility between the federal government and our states to be able to provide supplemental nutrition for our kids. And honestly, it's a better thing for all of us. Because like I don't want my kids going to school hungry. I don't want my kids, you know, suffering from having now suffering from illnesses that are now going to cost more money for them to have to go to emergency rooms and deal with I don't the more people I can have being productive members of my community the less money I have to spend on social services. And so I actually think this is actually a good investment to be able to do these things. And if the president is going to adjust it my point is this then have a conversation with the nation's governors who are your partners inside of this work, but you cannot just unilaterally decide that you're going to adjust it and again violate the law to do it and then expect for us to just come up with it. That's not the way a partnership is supposed to work. Got it. So so you are against folks who abuse the system, but you're for the people that actually need it to take advantage of it. >> Absolutely. I'm I'm listen I I will debate with anyone who is saying that you need to be able to break the law in order to be humane. No, no. You need to make sure you are both doing two things, right? You got to make sure you are following the law. You got to make sure you're following the constitution and you can make sure you make sure that you're also being humane with the people in your jurisdictions. And I don't think you have to choose between those two things. Okay. So so the baby bonds idea great you you know with what he's doing you're supportive of it. Walk me through one of the issues that was just an absolute caused so many people to become independent and that is men competing in women's sports. Okay, transgenders. Where are you at there? I I understand at the beginning everybody's like well, you know, what is this some people that are maybe Democrats or maybe even independent saying what what's the argument? We we should let them be able to transition and now we're having men compete against women. That's the part where it completely stops. Where are you at with that? So I I I can tell you I think about this as a parent, right? And I think about this as as a someone with a you know, a 12-year-old son 14-year-old daughter. Um I want them to get some sports the same thing that I got from sports where it gave me a chance to be a part of a team. It gave me a chance to learn great life lessons like from sports I learned how to win and how to lose. >> Mhm. And it gave me a chance to compete fairly. And I think we have to always show a sense of humanity in where we are. We want to make sure that we're protecting all of our kids. We want to make sure we're doing that. But if the competition becomes unfair, I think that's where you have to be able to draw a line. And I think there's ways you can do it. I think there's You know, you know, one thing I know is that our local jurisdictions are actually the ones who are responsible for this. And actually I think that's a good thing. Like I don't think that the president or a governor should be getting involved in something that is actually a decision of a local jurisdiction. And I trust local jurisdictions to be able to figure this out. However, I also know when I think about it from the perspective of my daughter, I want her to be safe and I want her to be able to compete fairly. And I think that both of those two things can live simultaneously where you can provide measurements for people and all young people to get the same benefits in sports that we all got, but also know I I do not want my child to be have it be either unfair or unsafe. >> You haven't answered it yet. >> Oh, no, no, I I know I I just did. >> men competing in women's sports. >> Yeah, no, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I >> Leave it to them, not a federal So you don't want it to be a federal thing deciding whether So do you think puberty blockers given to kids under the age of 18 should be a federal decision? It should be a state or a local decision? Well, all of them right now are are local decisions. Okay. All of them right now are local decisions. But I think that just like many things when it comes to our kids, parental involvement does matter. Like I I I want if for my 14-year-old and my 12-year-old, I I want to be involved in a decision-making process. First especially for something that has lasting implications on their life. >> Okay, question. What about parents? I got four kids, 14, 12, 9, and 4. >> Yeah. Your your your son comes in saying he wants to transition. What do you do? Um Well, first I mean if if it's if you know it's my son. So, I love him regardless. Right? Um and he's always going to have my undying love. That's That's me. Right? Um I want to make sure that I'm involved in understanding uh where he is, how he's feeling the way he's feeling, why he thinks it's important. If this is a journey that he wants to go down, um I want him to always be comfortable in his own skin, and I want him to always know that he has a partner in me to help him along that journey. >> Would you advise him to wait till he's 18? I I I If If this is how he is feeling and I feel like I'm I'm closely tied to him, I'm not going to advise him on something that he feels is At 14 years old, Wes? No, I understand it, but what I'm saying is the most important thing for me is I want him to feel safe in his own skin, safe in his own decision-making, but also know that at 14 years old, I want to be involved inside of that process as well. I'm not going to condemn him nor castigate him. I'm not going to kick him out of the house. I'm not going to do anything that's going to hurt him. Yeah, so so But I just want to make sure that I'm involved. >> I I fully By the way, just uh my crew came in here, okay? And uh I was coming from the other building. I came on this side. They said, "Pat, I got to tell you something." "What's that?" "I like him a lot." That's all they're telling me. "I freaking like this guy a lot." Right there he's looking, waving, going like this. I got to So, at these guys. "I like him a lot. I don't know why. I like them a lot. So, I something tells me and and you know, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think it would happen to your son. Because of the way you've raised him. So, that I don't even think that's a thought that you have. But, maybe let me rephrase the question on what some people have a hard time with. Okay? So, I still live in Glendale, California. I went to Glendale High School. So, I lived in California most of my life. If you ask me what freeways I know on the like the back of my hand, it's anything in LA, I know all of them. 405, 217, 134, 14, 5. You name them. I know. Okay. If all of a sudden, you've raised your kids in a certain way. And say you put them in a Christian private school till fifth grade. Your son has never brought anything up. In fifth grade, your wife gets fired. And we you were relying on that $72,000 a year income that she had. She hasn't found a job to replace that income. You guys talk and you say, "Babe, I think we got to do public school." You put your kids in public school. And all of a sudden, you notice 6 months, 12 months, your son is behaving in a weird way. And then he has support with a teacher. They build a relationship. And then you find out that the teacher maybe is part of the LGBTQ community is encouraging your son, who's never, since he was in fifth grade, ever brought this up, now because of a couple friends and a teacher, he is thinking about taking puberty blockers to go through the transition. As a parent, how informed would you like to be when that teacher is talking to your kid and is persuading them? And what position would you have to say, "Wait a minute. I've never seen any signs like this. Why are you going through it right now?" Would you then say, "Son, if you do want to get on puberty blockers and transition under the age of 18, I'll support you." Or would you say, "No, we got to kind of get to the bottom of this." Well, first, um I I don't care whether we're talking about puberty blockers or whether we're talking about what type of math you're learning. I want to be involved. You know what I mean? Like I I'm an involved parent. Uh, my wife is an involved parent. And I just think it's very important for parents to be involved in everything that happens with their with their child. And that's why I think that anything that happens in a school should be a, you know, a a joint process between the teachers and the parents, always. And no And no matter what. >> should know what's happening. Teachers can't keep a secret away from parents and not informing informing them what conversations they're having. >> I think parents have to be involved. >> but I'm saying there's a lot of parents that maybe don't have the luxuries that you and I have, who don't make the money that maybe we make. And, you know, you you've done well for yourself. You're taking care of your finances over the years. You were in the military. You You give me the vibe of somebody that's done made good decisions. You were an investment banker. You've done well for yourself. Yeah. But, some of the people that don't have that luxury, you know, it it's it's Here's what I think's going to happen. The reason why I'm asking this question, when I talked to Steven A, Steven A's like, "Nope." Full stop. I got a daughter. Men, no, not going to happen. I think 2028 election is going to be the most free agency election. And I actually think whatever Cal she's got you right now is not the right number. I think if anybody's a betting man right now and is willing to put a little bit on Cal she to say, "Hey, who I think has the potential of doing something that could have a plus minus?" I would support uh uh, you know, if you got like you go to Kentucky Derby. I like to go to Kentucky Derby a lot. And you'll you'll have three horses on a final race. If you want to vote and and, you know, support somebody on the Democratic ticket, I think I would put you as a long shot because I don't think it's a long shot. I really don't. I really believe in your abilities to go through this next phase. Charming, likable, military background. You flirted with being a Republican back in the days, Condoleezza Rice, maybe you were Republican back in the days and you know, whether you want to talk about that or not, the market kind of sees that you were, so it's out there, so it's good for that district you were talking about, 77%. But I do believe if you want the independent votes and that position is a little bit vanilla, I think it'll backfire versus it being black and white because I do think independents are willing to support a guy like you. But that's an area that just loses husband and wives, mom and dads are like, "Dude, come on, guys. Just give me a real answer." No, but but honestly, it it is my real answer to say that I I think we always have to make sure the parents have involvement in this. That parents parents have a say in this. These things cannot be decided without any form of, you know, adult uh you know, with any any form of adult >> wants to go through it, you know, in in puberty blockers are available, you're saying it's okay for parents to try to give the kids puberty blockers as long as parents approve it. Uh That decision becomes on the parents. Listen, I I think that um it's not a choice that I would make. It's not a choice that you would make. >> It's not It's not a choice that I would make. Um you know, I I I think that it is a very personal decision between these families. And um and honestly, my uh for the kids that are going through this, I mean, my honestly, my heart breaks for them because that is that is a weight. Um and something that's become so politicized that I I just think it's so deeply unfair to that child. >> You know, um I agree. But um but I think this is something that they uh this is a decision that the child cannot make on their own. When you were in high When When you were in high school, um do you remember how many gay friends you had in high school? Do you remember how many gay guys were in high school that we knew about publicly, openly? Cuz I remember myself. I was in a school with 4,000 kids. It's a good question. You know you know what's interesting. Um I don't say their names. I don't want you to say their names. Barry Jackson was a you know No, but you know but you know what's interesting. Yeah. When I went to military school cuz I got sent to military school when I was young. That was a that was an offense that could get you kicked out of school. I remember that. That was so cuz remember >> Don't ask don't we don't That was that that was that was pre when I first went I think don't ask don't tell was passed. Um but a few years after after I started military after I started military school. No, in fact Yes, don't ask don't tell was I think year two of my military school. So actually that was a dismissible offense before. So you know I actually didn't really get to know other people who were like openly other teenagers who were openly gay until probably when I was like 15 16 years old and that wasn't people I went to school with. That was you mean the people you went to school with? Was it a big school or was it a smaller school or was it a smaller school? I I think there were about 900 cadets. >> Okay. In my school. >> Got it. So I actually remember a couple guys in the military that were gay. One of the guy was and ended up marrying a girl and had two kids. But I'm like hey, I remember you know he he DM'd me on Facebook 15 years ago and said hey, you won't believe it. I'm married with two kids. I'm like no All right, great. Good for you. But we we laughed about it cuz uh it was good conversation. He was actually good soldier. But in high school what's if I say three? That's a big number. Yeah. And it was like nobody cared. But one of the concerns and I'll move on. I don't want to stay on this story for too long. One of the concerns is that the percentage Bill Maher talked about this. We have you do you have the chart I would shows uh you know all of a sudden generations. You and I are from a different generation. So for me I sympathize with this generation because I wonder how much more exposure they're getting that some of the kids that maybe are having a hard time getting a boyfriend or a girlfriend. They're like maybe I'm not, maybe I'm this, maybe I'm that, and they're kind of going through a direction. And then that kind of leads to a complete different thing. If I was an enemy who hates America, say there's an enemy who hates America, and we know when we look at our current stats right now, our birth rate in America is 1.58. Lowest we've had in God knows how many years, ever. General So, we need to be at 2.1. Now we're at 1.58. If the LGBTQ community increases, birth rate goes down. So, now we are introducing all these birth controls in there, then we have the LGBTQ, then we have, you know, making life expensive, then you have affordability, then you have, you know, some of the programming that's happening with the kids. I mean, this is generation, if you think about a silent generation, only 0.8% is gay. Baby boomers 2.6, Gen X 4.2, millennials 10 and 1/2, Gen Z 20.8, and then next generation 41.6. I mean, so this this part becomes where parents, serious parents are saying, I feel there's guy people that are Democrats who will never vote Republican, but they're sitting there saying, I'm considering going to the other side because they're pro-choice. But they're not for this. And so, a part a part of it becomes they're going through it because maybe kids are being pushed to think in a certain way, and I think it's unfair to the kids. You know, Poland had a guy here whose name is Dominik Tarczyński. And he said something to me in Poland. Lowest rate in all of EU, lowest unemployment, okay? They're doing great with economy, and out of all the stats you look at, if in school, if you if you do sexual education to minors in school, you go to prison, Poland. They leave that to parents. They're like, hey, Wes, Patrick, it's your job to teach your kids on sexual orientation, not teachers. If I leave it to the teachers to teach me, they're imposing maybe some of their opinions that's not factual. So, I I kind of have some some thoughts there where I'm like, "That's an interesting idea to have that." But anyways, before we close, I'll give you the final thoughts on this before we close. >> And and and and and this is why I think everything about education, to include all this, it cannot happen in the absence of parents. It just can. Like, parents have to be involved in what's happening inside of classrooms. Now, now, especially when it comes to things like the LGBTQ community, um I also believe that, you know, that we're not talking about something that for our our friends this is a choice. Um I I'll give you a an example um where, you know, I actually got involved in the in the the the don't ask, don't tell lifting. And it wasn't because it was like it was a personal issue for me, but it was because I found out that one of my good friends uh was exited from the military Because of being because of don't ask, don't tell. Cuz cuz he had the audacity of telling, you know, something that was his truth. And I remember him talking about kind of the impact it had on his family and all this kind of stuff. And he said something that was really important to me where he said, "Do you think I would choose to have my family um discard me?" Um he was one of the best leaders that I'd known in the military. Um and still a a dear dear friend. He was the kind of leader that I would put my children under his command. Cuz he's that good. Right? And but the army was at that point telling him that, "But, you know what? Because you're gay, we don't have a place for you here." >> '99, '98? Uh no, this was um God, when when when was this? This must have been like 2000 2010 or something like that, I think. Or >> By the way, they got rid of don't ask, don't tell in 2011, if I'm not mistaken. >> 2011, right? >> 2011. So, that's that's when it must have been. Because I I very involved. I was working with a group called Iraq Afghanistan Veterans of America who were doing a lot of work on this issue. Um the reason that I say that is because I don't think that this is something that people are choosing to go and start I think that I think that if this is I think a percentage, I agree. I think a percentage, I fully agree. >> Yeah. And and you know, but I also think a bigger percentage I don't agree. Because so I grew up in a single-family home. Parents got a divorce to each other twice. I hung out with kids from Burbank 13, from TVR. I don't know if Toonerville was a gang in LA. Mhm. And we had all these other guys. And I got because I had bad grades and I was a troublemaker, they put me in this uh basketball league called the New Century City Basketball Association, something like that in Echo Park. If you know LA Echo Park in the '90s, horrible. 1994 Echo Park, horrible. Mhm. So I'm in a group with kids who are from Black Diamonds, from Bloods from from uh MS-13, Mara Salvatrucha, from Toonerville, from you name it. We're all together playing basketball. Everybody's a One day there's a shooting. My dad is there. My dad just turned 84 last 2 weeks ago. He's there and old friend of mine, Adrian, if he sees this, he'll crack up because we were hiding in the bathroom cuz they're shooting everywhere. And the helicopter comes couple guys The guy that was a best scorer was with Bloods. He got arrested, went to prison. Um so guess what? What happened to me? I was never a gangster. I wasn't a kid in Iran that was going to be a gangster or tough guy. And then all of a sudden I start like listening to RBL Posse, I start listening to all this gangster rap and I start hanging out with them and all of a sudden I'm like, you know what? Maybe maybe I am. And that influence me. If I don't join the army, my life goes a very different direction. So to me, I do agree with you. You know, and and I'm not a scientist to sit here and say what happens with the chromosomes and all this I'm not I'm not playing that card cuz that's not my space. But I do believe a bigger percentage of it is a pattern of kids who get confused that go through it. I don't think this will be the topic of discussion for election 2028. Like meaning, you know, whether you're born, whether you're not. I don't think that's the issue. I think the issue will be puberty blockers, transgender. I think men and women sports, I think that's going to be there. And I think the Democratic candidate, you will be on the stage when you're debating, if that day comes, and they're going to ask that question. And how that's answered will be very interesting to see whether you're going to get the independent voters or not. Cuz I think you're going to need the independent voters. My opinion. Look what Trump did. Trump knew he needed the independent voters. When they asked him about LGBTQ, what did he say? That That's all We've already had that discussion. I don't even need to answer this. Just moved on. So, a Republican took that position. Yeah. And he moved on and it helped him. I think on a Democratic side, uh you're going to want the reasonable parents to support you. And it's going to be, "Look, I don't want any boys competing in a women's sports." My opinion. Let me get to the next one. >> Yeah. Um in regards to uh other things with the bridge in in um uh in um in uh uh Baltimore and uh Maryland. Because I don't think people give you enough credit. I think you've done a very good job uh improving that market. You know, if the anybody gives credit for lowest crime. When I think I've been to Baltimore. I used to go to Gibson Island. There's a There's a place called Gibson Island. Real nice place. >> Beautiful. Beautiful place. And I'm a baseball guy. So, look, I mean, Baltimore's a baseball city. >> It sure is. Uh I'm a football guy. You know, one of my good friends, Manny Asadi, who is a CEO of one of the biggest insurance company in America, number one in Index Universal Life. He lives in Baltimore. He's been a season ticket holder I don't know 25 years. And he's there. So, good people come out of this place. When the bridge happened, uh and we all saw the video. Okay? Everybody saw the video what happened to it and it got hit and all this stuff. The debris took 38 days, right? I think 28 or 38 days to clean up. I don't know the exact number. It's something eight. It's either uh damage okay. Uh uh uh uh let me see the exact because I want to say it correctly. Uh Francis Scott Key Bridge took 78 days to remove the debris. Yeah. Okay and then it's a 1.6 mile steel truss bridge. A lot of people say well how did DeSantis fix the bridge that's 3 miles? It's a very different bridge. So people can't make that comparison it's apples and oranges. I I'm putting that in I'm a DeSantis guy. So I'm not pinning you against him. I don't want to say that. It's very different. Yeah. But then the numbers came out that you said you want speed. You want to get it done quick right? Then the budget came out to 5.2 billion. I want to say somewhere around there and saying it'll take till 2030. To your critics that say Governor Moore why can't we get this thing done faster? What do you say to them? So I'd say that when they said it was going to take 11 months to clear the channel we got it cleared in 11 weeks. When they said it was going to take years to get permitting done we got it done in months. When they said it was going to take literally 5 to 7 years to get a to get a 7% design build we got it done in 14 months. This is the fastest moving major project inside of the country. And people forget that initial bridge the Francis Scott Key Bridge was initially built nearly a 2 mile long bridge. That from design permitting implementation took 12 years right? We're talking about now getting this thing done within literally less than half of the time. And the bridge that we're going to have to build is going to have to be a bridge according to federal guidelines a bridge that has more safety implementations because what happened that morning on March 26th can never happen again. This is a ship the size of three football fields that slammed into a nearly 2 mile long bridge and took it down instantaneously. Um this is a engineering marvel what happened and and you see here where literally the the the bridge is sitting on top of a ship. >> Mhm. Right? Um we knew and the thing that I was focused on is I want speed, I want safety, and I want cost savings. And we've been able to help to deliver on those things. In fact, just recently when I saw that the people who were the contractors, uh you know, were not were actually, you know, estimating that this is going to be more expensive than what we initially laid out. I fired them. And now we're going to go through the process, but the work is still continuing. >> You're back at it again. So, from the uh Well, the work is still happening right now. Okay. >> Because phase one phase one is still going to happen for the next 6 months. The initial the initial company that we had as a contractor, they're going to keep on working through January cuz phase one still has time to go. >> But they're not going to be the ones that's going to get the job done. >> I I want a different team for phase two because >> speed? You're not happy with the speed or Well, A, I want it run faster, and it's the cost. I'm very I am a hawk when it comes to taxpayer dollars on this. And when I saw that the cost continued to escalate, that's when I made the decision that I'm going to fire them. And we're going to go through the process that once phase one is complete, I want phase two to begin immediately, but I want phase two to begin immediately with the with the with the company that's going to get us to the finish line. And and so, while I know when people say they're like, "Listen, it still seems aggressive that you can get something like that done." If you look at some of the comps, things like the Gordie Howe Bridge, the Gordie Howe Bridge a 20 years, similar size bridge. You look at the you look at the the the Harbor Bridge in Texas, same thing. Where this thing took has taken decades to get done. And I'm talking about getting it done in a fraction of that time. The answer is yes, because we're focused, and again, I'm very clear. It is speed, it is safety, and it is cost savings. Those are the three things that I want to be able to focus on to make sure we can get this bridge done. So, is it going to be above 5.2 billion? Uh well, we'll have to wait to see what the next contract comes back to. >> they make? Yeah, but and and and now in in in fairness to the other contractor, sure, the thing that they were saying was this, was that this thing cost you know, a couple billion dollars when it was done in 1977. Right? Since 1977, the cost of everything has increased. This has to be a bridge that can take on bigger cargo and allow allow more cargo. >> 2,000 cars a day. I mean, this is like a very important bridge. This is the most This The Port of Baltimore is one of the most important ports in the United States of America. 2/3 of the country get their goods from the Port of Baltimore. It's the largest roll-on roll-off port in the entire country. It's the largest when it comes to spices and sugars, etc. Like whether you are driving in Michigan or whether you are eating a meal in Louisiana, chances are those goods came from the Port of Baltimore. And that bridge is a major artery for it. So, the reason that we were so focused on getting that channel cleared quickly and the reason that even last year after the tragedy last year was the second most productive year in the history of the Port of Baltimore. So, when people talk about the speed, this is speed that is just absolutely unheard of when it comes to dealing with this kind of crisis. The state of Maryland put on a case study in how you deal with moments of crisis. We had six bodies that we still had to recover and make sure we're getting them back to their families. So, I'm really proud of how the state moved, but also the state knows I'm very clear. It is speed, safety, and cost savings. >> Let me ask you this. Have you had a conversation with the president about this? Absolutely. Okay. We've and and Secretary Duffy as well, who who's actually been a very good partner. >> He's he's very good. He's he's a classic himself. He and his wife are phenomenal. Yeah. Uh so, i- i- is it something where did the president, when you speak with him, offer to help you working collaboratively together to get it done faster? Did that conversation take place? >> Yeah, in fact, um not only have we been working very closely with Secretary Duffy on it. Uh yes, when I made the announcement that I was firing the other contractor cuz cuz we weren't getting what what my expectations were. Secretary Duffy then put out another note from the Department of Transportation basically echoing what we said and saying I think the state of Maryland did the right thing. So, this was something that that it was both for the not just the state, but also the federal government came back and piggybacked and said this was the right thing. In the past when this has happened cuz this has probably happened, you know, not many times, but it's happened in the past before. What role does the federal government play to help accelerate cuz this is not just a regular place. This is a very important bridge. >> It is. What role has the federal government played? So, for this bridge the the federal government and also I I got to give credit to Congress and both Democrats and Republicans in Congress because they voted for the 100% cost share. And so the what a 100% cost share is it's essentially bridge financing. It's essentially saying listen, you know, we know that this is going in litigation and when and we know then when the litigation is is is settled because even Lloyd's of London has indicated this is probably going to be the most expensive maritime tragedy in our nation's history. But what they know is I can't wait for that to be complete. So, what the federal government is saying is that listen, we're going to help to support it, but essentially we are going to do bridge financing. Once everything is settled, that money then comes back to the treasury. But then the federal government on not just this project, but the federal government when it comes to most projects that take place around the country, they serve as the main underwriter because whether you're talking about roads or bridges or tunnels, no state has the resources to be able to take care of all infrastructure in your state alone. That support comes from Congress. That support comes from Washington. And so this like other projects in the last round came to came from Washington where they said we are going to support because we think this project is important enough to be able to serve as an underwriter. Okay, fair enough and the best of luck to you guys. This is story that came out I think today Maryland drops construction company for Baltimore's Key Bridge as federal partners seeks to lower cost. Maryland will start looking for new construction companies working together with the government. So, more power to you working with the secretary Shawn Duffy. He seems like a stud of a guy and and best of luck to you guys. >> He's He's been He has been He has been a very very >> See, that's the part about you. Let me tell you what This is the part that's important about you on how you are. That you're willing to work with anybody. Your relationship with Oklahoma governor, you're now Duffy. You know, the conversation's giving credit to what the president's doing with the baby All this stuff is very important. This is why people like you as much as they do because you know, the next level of leadership is is we need that because today the biggest thing is like even California. I don't know. I'm sure you're following it closely because you know, there's only 50 of you and I believe you're the only African-American governor we have right now. And only and only the third in American history. And the only one ever in Maryland. Yeah, it's pretty So, it's not like an it's an easy feat to do. So, you're you're one of very few in the history of America that we have, right? Um when it comes on to homelessness, okay? Crime, you'll typically hear Baltimore being the top five. At one point it was one, two, three, five. Now, some people even say six, seven maybe. It's dropping, right? It's dropping. Homelessness in California, this next phase if you choose to go through it on the national stage as a president, Newsom's going to be one of your opponents if you choose to go on the national stage. And Katie Porter was asked what grade do you give Gavin Newsom on the way he's handled homelessness because you know, he was given $24 billion. Taxpayers gave it to him. $85,000 per homeless person. I think the number The math's been done. And she was asked what would you give, you know, Newsom on homelessness and she said I'm a tough teacher, but I would give him a B, right? Yeah. I would give him a B." I don't know how you would answer this. I don't even know if it's a fair question to ask you, but you know, on the national stage, you're a governor, you run a state, Newsom runs a state, he's a governor. You've been able to fix the state. He hasn't been able to fix the state. A lot of people say California's worse than it was the day he got elected, the fifth year today. You know, he lost a trillion dollars of wealth during COVID, he just lost another trillion dollars mishandling the, you know, wealth tax. And we just saw the story they got the 1.55 million votes to be able to put it on the ballot, so most likely it's going to pass. Who's not going to vote? There's only two, you know, hundred and something, 200 billionaires in the state of California. Of course the rest are going to say, "This is to just to punish the 200 people, tax the hell out of them. Let's do the tax 5%." What do you think has happened to the state of California with the way Gavin Newsom's led versus the way you've led? Well, honestly, I I I I can tell you about what we've done in Maryland and why You're going to play it safe? Well, no, and honestly, this is not a play safe because I I I have not spent time digging into You're about to be the vice chair, you're the you're going to be the chair of the go You can't give me that answer. You're You're You're leading all of these guys, so you got And you know why? Because I think we follow best practices and I think we've got to some really interesting best practices that I think Maryland can share with other people and some things that we've learned from other from other states. And I can tell you about some of those things as well. How would you have Okay, so let me ask a question a different way. You were given 24 billion dollars to fix homelessness in the state of Maryland. What would you have done? Well, I I can tell you what we did to help fix homelessness without 24 billion dollars. >> Even better. Um you know, the the first thing that you got to do, you have to focus on the acute problem and making sure that housing has to become you know, has to become an issue. You have to make sure that people are not becoming homeless in the first place, which deals with the issue of housing insecurity, which means that we need to build more housing, right? We have to build more affordable options and affordable housing for people. It's one of the big reasons why I've been very aggressive when it comes to housing when in my state because I don't think the way you deal with housing and and the rising cost of housing is by capping the cost. I think you have to build more housing. And so what we've done, for example, in Maryland, where I said, "Who's the largest landowner in the state of Maryland?" Well, the answer is the state of Maryland. And I get that 70% of my state is either water waterlined or waterlogged. You can't build everywhere, but in the places that you can build, you need to build and you need to make it faster. Cut the red tape. Cut all the regulations and all the permitting processes and everyone who wants to slow this process up and say on things like transit-oriented development and density bonuses, get that stuff done and build more housing. And actually, I passed legislation that says, particularly around around transit, trains, buses, etc. If it is state-owned land, I want to build housing on it, right? Cuz that's going to increase more inventory for people. And I know inventory of all types, affordable housing and a whole bunch of variety of different types of housing. Come up with better ways of supporting your renters so you're not having more people fall into homelessness. And if people fall into homelessness, make sure it is temporary and make sure you can have more supports for them. So people don't have this revolving door when it comes to homelessness and particularly for children because one of the biggest challenges you have for a child is if a child has to move around multiple times during a school year, that child is not going to learn. And that child is not going to have a real chance of real of long-term academic success. And so we've actually been really successful in driving down homelessness and in our state. >> billion. Without needing 24. So if you were given 24 billion, what would you have done? Would you have said to taxpayers, "We don't need it. Take the money back." When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, function, and luxury, we had the choice to make [music] it fast, we had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscan, Italy. We chose true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair is by 50 skilled hands. We chose patience, spending 2 years perfecting [music] every detail, and we chose the finest quality at every step. Introducing the Future Looks Bright Collection. Not rushed, not disposable, not ordinary. Rather, intentional, luxurious, timeless. Well, I would say give me what you give me what you need to be able to solve a problem. And now And it's funny because that's very much the way I think about budgeting, period. >> Mhm. Like I don't And it's the same way when I think about taxes, right? I I think there are people who think about taxes like it's an ideology, right? Taxes are not an ideology. They're a tactic. What do you need in order to get done? And then let's focus on actually being able to make targeted investments. In our state, for example, you know, the 4 years that I've been the governor, do you know we have actually had a general fund in our state that the fund that you know, that you the fund services You know, I've actually decreased the general fund every single year? First time this has happened in decades where the Maryland governor for four straight years has actually decreased the size of the budget. Because I said, "Tell me what works and fund that. Tell me what doesn't work >> Every year you lowered it? Every single year I've been the governor. Look it up. >> Dude, that's Every year I've been the governor, we've lowered the general fund in the state of Maryland. Look it up. And but it's because I don't People oftentimes think about a number and they move towards number. No, tell me what you need. Tell me what it is that we have to resource. And I've told the state, "We've got to do more with less." >> Okay, so let me ask you. I just looked up right now. What are you ranked in the highest in taxes, right? You're ranked eighth to 12th, somewhere around there, as the highest taxes in America. 10 11% tax burden. >> Yeah. Okay, state income tax. >> where it was 4 years ago. Right. Right. So, the state income tax So, So, let me ask you this. Here's a question for you. Yeah, uh here, I love him. He's phenomenal as a governor. And you know, we were living in Texas. We were happy with Texas. I escaped California. I knew California did not like guys like us 10 years ago when we left. I just knew that was going to be a problematic place. Yeah. And now they're introducing a wealth tax. DeSantis is thinking about He sits there and he says, "We have $31 billion that we were getting every year from uh property tax." Rob, can you pull up the number? He says, "Now I'm getting 63 billion. I don't need that additional 31 billion or 33 billion, whatever the number is in surplus. I want to find a way to give that back to Floridians." Okay. So, then he's starting to have conversations about eliminating taxes for homestead. Okay? Eliminating taxes for homestead. >> Yep. Um have you thought about a dramatic way of lowering taxes so it attracts other people to come to you because right now, if you think about where business owners are leaving, a lot of people are leaving in New York because of what Mondani is doing, what Hochul is doing. Ken Griffin is just having a meeting with her right now. I think today or yesterday the meeting was taking place. I'm like, "What are you guys talking about? Just targeted me." California is losing business owners because, you know, taxes and where they're at. What what would you or could you do Yeah. to work with taxes to start attracting others, especially in a blue state like yours, to get others to come in and say, "Hey, I think we can get rid of following taxes to attract some business owners." What would you do? So, I I think there's a few things that we can do and and have done. Um one is you do need to make it a more tax-friendly environment for your businesses. Uh this year I actually we introduced a piece of legislation that I just signed called the Decade Act. And the Decade Act is actually the most business-forward piece of legislation that I think Maryland's probably passed in decades. Uh and, you know, with a Democratic governor and a Democratic legislature, which actually provides incentives for businesses. It's about a hundred million dollars tax cut uh going to businesses that both incentivizes businesses to stay in the state of Maryland and come to the state of Maryland. And if you just look in recent months, we've now announced that that AstraZeneca has now made the largest private investment in Maryland in over a decade. It's going to support about 2,600 jobs. We saw how Samsung Biologics has just announced that it's creating its first manufacturing facility in the United States and they're creating it in Maryland. Um we saw how the Sphere in Las Vegas, the Sphere uh is now, you know, it's it announced it's doing its second one in Abu Dhabi. It's second one they're doing in the United States is in Prince George's County, Maryland. Stop it. Prince George's County, Maryland is where the Sphere is coming. >> Why? And and I'm I'm I'm I'm telling you why. Sick. It's Well, it's because we provided the right kind of incentives for them to choose to come to Maryland. And that is going to be worth about 6,000 jobs uh in just in the creation and over 8,000 jobs once it's created. Right? So, we are making sure we're incentivizing our businesses to be able to come to the state of Maryland. Providing the right kind of incentives and providing the right kind of climate and environment. But also, we have to make sure we're investing in the things that makes businesses want to come to our state. You know what makes business want to come to our state? That it's one of the most educated states inside the country. That we have now they Top five. That's exactly right. And if you look at the state of Maryland, we have the fastest jumps in reading scores anywhere in the United States of America under the leadership of Dr. Carey Wright. That we are making sure that we're providing you know, a greater level of support when it comes to our anchor institutions. Like we are the home of the NSA. We're the home of US Cyber Command. We're the home of the United States Naval Academy, of Johns Hopkins University, of of of of of of NIST, of of you know, the only pure play public company in quantum, which is IonQ. We're the literally we are the capital of quantum. And so, you have to also create the ecosystem that makes businesses want to come, that makes businesses want to grow and thrive. And so, that's the thing I think you have to be be to do. That yes, it's about tax policy and making it more attractive for businesses. Uh Uh and by the way, we're now seeing how Maryland's population is the fastest growing population we've had in Maryland in over a decade. And so, you both have >> Your net migration isn't impressive. Well, a great agreed. But but if you look at if you look at the population growth that we've had over the past decade, net migration has actually been a challenge in Maryland that we've had for a very long period of time, but we're now actually starting to see a population growth. Yeah, so 10 to 23 a net loss of 300,000 residents. 2.3 million leaving and 2 million moving in. So, that's net 300,000. >> Yeah. Can you pull up by state, Rob? By state, I wonder where Maryland ranks because to me, 100 million is good, but I think you have a bigger opportunity. You know you know what would be a very >> I agree with you, by the way. You know what would be a very creative story? Um what what you your governor till what year? What's the Till 2030. So, I'm I'm up for re-election. I'm up for re-election this November. You're up for re-election this November. Okay. Uh uh And and by the way, you could go through it again and then still run for president. That's something that you can do, right? The answer is yes. I think you The answer is yes. Yeah. But you know what would be crazy? Is you know, when you think about a state like yours, if if you made a radical decision to Okay, what's this one here? 50 states from what year? Since 2010. Florida's at the top. Mhm. Texas, Carolina, Arizona, South Carolina, Tennessee. Red red red red red red red red. You see the red states? Yeah. Okay, they're net they're gaining. Then you go to not moderate, go to the bottom. Let's do Okay, bottom is what? Uh uh biggest losers. Go to biggest losers. You got California, Gavin Newsom, New York, Hochul, Mumdani, Illinois, Pritzker, Jersey, Connecticut, Maryland. You're at 45. Yeah. Net migration. Now, 2010, I'd like to know what it is since you became governor because 2010 is kind of unfair because you were not a governor. You were still in the military. >> I was still in the military. Exactly. Right. No, no, that's why I'm saying. So, it's unfair to judge it from that number. Uh but I I think some blue states if a blue state became business-friendly so this is 2023 to 2025 oh wow, Florida jumps to six. Carolina's one, Texas South Carolina, Tennessee, Arizona, Florida, Idaho, Georgia. Okay, so it's still red. And then go to the bottom. Uh all the way to the bottom. You're still ranked at the same place. Yeah. 45th. And then bottom I'm assuming California is still the worst. What could you do to increase net migration? Because data doesn't lie. Why are people leaving certain states and going to red states? So, I mean, cost of living is still very much an issue for a lot of places. Now, you know, if you actually took a look and you started looking at things like education levels, if you started looking at things like uh you know, you know, the the the attractiveness for corporations to be able to select different places I think you would actually see more of a flip. You would see where uh you know, a lot of those states are at the bottom of that actually have some of the best when it comes to healthcare, best when it comes to education. Uh Rob Rob to be fair, Rob, run the report on education. I I I want to I don't want to be a one-sided. Let's run the report on education to see where they rank where Maryland ranks. But to me, I think Wes, it's massive opportunity for business owners. Business owners just are sitting there saying, "Dude, you don't like me? I will leave. I'll go anywhere and create jobs." That's right. So, what what can blue states do to get a positive net migration cuz it's not been happening? So, I think there's a few things. One is you've got to be Yeah, and you've got you've got to be focused on what is it that you are really good at. And I think that's actually been part of the problem. It's It's the same thing and I think about it from from a founder's perspective and from an entrepreneur's perspective, right? Where if I ask a founder "What is is that you do?" No founder worth his salt is going to tell me, "Oh, I do everything." Because then what he's telling me is you're not focused. >> Mhm. What does your company do? >> Mhm. And why are you best in class? And I think part of the problem is that for a lot of states, that's kind of been the answer. Where if you look at Maryland, Maryland has said, you know, that we have been focusing on the eds, the feds, and the meds, right? That's kind of been Maryland's economic base. And it's been like that for a very long time. One of the things that I've been focusing on is saying, what are we doing to diversify our economy? Because we cannot simply rely on who's sitting in the Oval Office, or if you look at the fact that, you know, in the past year, I've had over 31,000 people fired. Federal workers. You know, and and so that's more than any state in this country. There's been no state that's been under a greater level of assault than what we've seen uh from from this federal administration than Maryland. So, we've got to find a way to diversify our economy and quickly. And so, I decided that I said, here are the things that we are going to target. We're going to target IT, we're going to target life sciences, we're going to target aerospace and defense. It's very clear why. Because some of the greatest assets in the country reside and exist in the state of Maryland. And it's insane for us not to be able to compete for those things. I think about, for example, biotech in, you know, then Massachusetts 20 years ago. They said, you know what, we're going to be the home of biotech because we're the home of Harvard, we're the home of MIT, da da da. And so, they said, we're going to invest in biotech. And guess what? They became the global head of biotech because they were intentional. We've got to be intentional about the way we're thinking about cyber, about the way we're thinking about AI and quantum, about the way we're thinking about life sciences. >> How do you do that? How do you do that with policies? How do you How do you make a dramatic policy change today for a business own because here's here's a massive opportunity have. Do you think people from New York want to move to Florida or you think they'd rather move to Maryland? You think people from New York want to make that massive If some people like East Coast the cold weather, some people like that area. So, Proximity to Washington, D.C. >> Oh my god, totally. So, so >> if I was a governor of a blue state like Maryland and I know New York is royally screwing up. Now, you may not say it because, you know, it's party lines and you know, you know, some of the stuff that >> I I don't do party lines. >> Okay, so I'm just saying they're they're really screwing up and I don't know if you would agree with that or not. They're losing business owners, right? New York is losing business owners, so is California. It's a lot easier for me to move from New York to somewhere in Maryland to move down here. And we and we and and frankly, we've seen that, right? We've seen businesses who, you know, for whatever reason uh have chosen and chosen Maryland because they like the regional landscape. >> negative in that migration. It's It needs to be bigger than that. Yeah. It needs to be bigger than that because right now, you know, I'll walk around, I'll go to Palm Beach, okay, and I'll run into So, "Hey, where are you from?" "Oh, I'm from Illinois." "What part?" "Chicago." "What What brought you down here?" "Taxes, lifestyle, safety." "Really?" "Yeah." "Where are you from?" "New York." "Where are you from?" "California." It is, you know, when I was in California, we When I was in Texas, we saw a lot. We moved to Plano, Texas and Addison and Preston Hollow. So, you run into a lot of Californians that are leaving. Here, it's a lot of New York, you know, it's a lot of DC, it's a lot of Illinois that you'll run into people. You know, and you see DeSantis. DeSantis created policies that got people to say, "You know what? I'm moving to Florida." And in a major way. In a major way. But if you guys are blue state like Maryland, and I think you're reasonable enough to think about ways to bring small business owners, and that you're on the stage 2027, 2028, and it shows, "Hey, net migration for small business owners. Look what's going on." You're going to get conservatives who are going to be like, "Wait, we have to choose between who and who?" Cuz right now, I think on paper, choosing a Democrat 10 out of 10 times, I choose you over over Newsom, and it's not even close. Well, and and I'll say this for you. You know, and from for me, this has, you know, nothing to do with with what anyone else is doing, right? It It's about what can we do to make my state win? And I know there's more we've got to do. I know the kind of hole that we had to walk into. I know we walked in with a multi-billion-dollar structural deficit, and part of the reason is because our state is very good at spending. Right? If you look at the 7 years before I became the governor, spending in Maryland increased by 70%. In the previous 7 years? >> 70. Yes. 7 years before I became the governor. 70. It's nuts, right? And GDP stayed relatively flat. So, I'm like, so hold on. So, we were spending, we just weren't growing. Wow. And so, one thing that So, I said, you know, so what do you do to be able to address that? I frankly just put on my business hat and say, what what do you have to do to address it? You have to control your spend. You have to increase your top line, right? You do those two things, that actually increases growth. And so, that's what we've had to do. That's why, you know, like we mentioned, for 4 years in a row, decrease the general fund within the state of Maryland, control your spend, and actually invest in industries that are going to help you to grow. So, while we've made movements on those things, there is no doubt there's still more that needs to get done. And there's a measure of urgency that we've got to move at from our state that, you know, I I you know, for anyone who just wants to sit there and say, oh, you know, they have it all figured out or any of these people have it all figured out, the answer is, no, we don't. Because as long as you're dealing with some of those data points, it means we still got work to do. >> Why do you think DeSantis is winning? You know, listen, I I mean, you winning with getting businesses come down? Winning with a lot of different things. Winning with businesses, winning with people that are here who are staying, winning with, you know, younger generation coming that There's many ways Florida's winning right now. Why do you think he's winning? So, I mean, I I I mean, I honestly, I have the same way when I was about I have not spent my time digging into other states. I would include Florida in that category. The thing that I The thing that I do think is this. And here's the thing that I think we want to make sure that we are modeling and making an offer for. Is that when people are trying to decide between, okay, am I thinking about Maryland or am I thinking about Florida? I want to be able to leverage the things that I think we have a unique competitive advantage at. So, for example, you there's a there's a proximity leverage to Washington, D.C. and and that whole area that I think we have a a specific focus on. I think if you look at things like healthcare, I think if you look at things like education, I think if you look at things like both K-12 education and higher education, we've got to make sure we're leveraging that. But, also we have to make the business community feel like they are they are not just welcomed, but supported in that. And that can't just be passive. >> business community. So, if you take the business community, Florida's winning the Florida's winning the business community nationwide. The only one that maybe you can make an argument for is Texas. Why do you think they're winning? Why do you think Texas and Florida winning the business community? Well, I I think it cannot just simply be and the answer is not just simply well, it's just tax policy. I think that's one of them. I don't think it's the only thing. >> it's I do think it's one of them. I think it's one of them. But, I think you've also got to be able to compete and win in other areas. So, listen, is is Maryland or any of these other other places are we ever going to say this is going to beat Texas on tax policy? No, right? And and I don't and I don't think that's actually even a realistic expectation. However, do you know what is a real expec- a realistic expectation? Find the things that CEOs care about when they're making their decisions. So, when I'm speaking to CEOs all the time and and listen, I always say when I go to different places, I I I my intention I'm bringing three businesses back with me, right? So, a lot of time talking with CEOs. Mhm. And cuz that's also part of my job and it's also my background. And so, when I'm talking to them like, what are the things that you're most interested in and you're focused on? Mhm. And they'll talk about tax climate, but in many ways tax climate for a lot of these states, it's the same when you're when I was doing banking and I'm really thankful for the time that I had to do banking, but you realize that whether it was Goldman or Morgan Stanley or City offering something, we're talking bips of difference on a deal. A company didn't choose to go to Goldman or Morgan Stanley because one was offering a better deal cuz generally all the deals were in the similar type of bandwidth and some were offering >> Right. You're that that is very small difference. Right. Here it's massive. Yes. >> Wes, I'll give you I'll give you an idea. I sold I I had I had I had my business in state of California. And I started hearing California's whispering about clawback taxes. Like you know how Canada does exit tax? I think it's called exit tax. Clawback taxes. What clawback taxes? What do you mean? If you leave but this you come back you have to pay for this. I'm like wait a minute. I know my business was going to sell. So I started doing the math. Said okay, if my business sells for $50 million I'm going to have to pay 13.3% here. What's 13.3%? Six and a half million, okay? Six some If it sells for $100 million I'm saving $13.3 million. I mean dollars. I sat there. My wife did not want to leave Cali She's from Houston, Texas. She does not want to leave. I said baby you don't have an option. We're moving to Texas. We moved to Texas uh in 2016. We moved to Florida 2021. We sold the business June 27th of 2022 for $250 million. Do you know I owned 88% of the company? 13.3% equals what? If I take Let's just do the math right now so we kind of see how this works. I just want to say how much money was saved. And I'm just giving basic math here, right? If I take 250 times 88% >> Mhm. Okay. times .133 My kids got an additional $29 million net in my pocket. Why would I stay in California? Why why would I stay in some of these states that I have to pay that? So people are starting to sit there and say why would I do so at the end of the day people who are small business I'm not a I'm running Open AI. I'm not you know, Sergey Brin with $265 billion or Musk who left California or some of these other I'm not Ken Griffin in Illinois. I'm a small business owner that grew it and I sold it for a good amount. Families got some money. I sat there. I'm like, I'm not paying that $29 million to tell me >> mean It's a mean It's a meaningful difference. And that's the thing, right? It's like And I think part of the thing that we all have to do as chief executives is is you have to be able to make an argument to business leaders and to and small business leaders large large large corporations say like what is staying here worth it to you for? Right? >> Let me Let me keep more of the money to make the decision instead of giving it to the federal government or the state. >> Or the state. But but and and it's also what are the things that you care about? Right? And so part of it is going to be absolutely If you If you >> Taxes, regulation, talent. Yes. Quality of life. What Where Where do I want my kids to be able to grow up? Where do I want them to going to schools? Where do I have Where they going to be safe? >> You have his sense of the historic. Maryland has a sense of historic. >> Exactly. >> baseball. You have Ravens. You have Ori You have a lot. But we have to be also be able to move with a sense of urgency on economic diversification and attractiveness when it comes to business. Listen, since I've been the governor and I'm and I'm very proud of this. Since I've been the governor, we have added over 35,000 new businesses to the state of Maryland. Either businesses that have grown within Maryland or businesses that we've gone and stolen from other states. So we're very We're We're happy that we're actually making progress on that front. Since I've been Since I've been the governor and this is despite watching what's happened with our federal workforce which I which I talked about. We've added nearly 100,000 new jobs to the state to the state of Maryland. And by the way, that's majority that's a majority private sector jobs that have been added. So we're very happy about that, but I'm also very clear we've got to move faster because that economic diversification, being able to focus on these new industries of the future, the places that we can uniquely capture that type of alpha and that type of growth for our state is something that we can't compromise on. And I think for too long, we've been a state that has relied on asking more of the people who are there and not producing enough to be able to keep them. And I think if we can change that mindset and change that mentality as we start to make a move towards we know we have more work to do. Uh I think that's going to be the right answer particularly in the neighborhood that that we that we call home as well. >> I think when your age starts with 65, maybe 70, I think we're going to be neighbors in Palm Beach. >> [laughter] >> Who knows? I don't think you will be because you have to stay there as as a as a Maryland guy. And and I and I and honestly [laughter] and here's the thing it's like and I I I I love my state and I love what it offers. And honestly, do you know what I'm trying to do right now? I want to make sure that you don't have to be in Palm Beach. I want to make sure that every single Marylander doesn't feel like they have to go anywhere. I want people to know that Maryland is a place that you don't just want to grow and stay and build, but you want to have your kids grow up there. >> man. You can do something really as a blue state. You can You can truly confuse Republicans to say Wait, this guy Wes Moore's very confusing. What is this guy You have You truly have a shot at changing the face of the Democratic Party cuz it's a lost right now. So, here's the numbers. I know you can't say anything. Kamala Harris surges in new 2028 poll. Uh report came out I think yesterday. I don't know if you see the Do they show everybody else underneath the list? Rob, do you have that or not? I know she came up yesterday and they had a list of them. Uh uh Oh, here we go. Um Notably not result in No, there was something I saw on X that actually showed percentage where it was. And Kamala was at the top. I'll say this. You don't need to say this. There is nowhere where I see her ahead of you. Nowhere. You've ran a state. You were in the military. You've been in the private sector. Okay. Family guy, personal, you know, faith, you you understand what people in business go, you're willing to talk to anybody, you don't think you're above everybody, you don't So, to me, you know, that's that part. Pritzker, I don't think he's the guy because he has a lot of things to explain for for Illinois. You By the way, these are your friends. So, yeah, I know you you know, Josh Shapiro, I'm a fan of Josh Shapiro. I actually like Josh Shapiro on the Democratic ticket. I think I think if Biden would have chosen him as a VP, I think it could have been a different result if they would have chosen him because this isn't about DEI. Like, you're not a DEI hire, even though you're African-American, it's not because you're African-American you became the governor. You're you're a governor because you kicked everyone's ass. So, it's not like it's a DI DI hire, which a lot of people would have said that Kamala Harris was a DI hire. I'm saying it. You're not saying it. I'll take the heat for saying that. And then you go to Newsom with the record. So, I don't know, man. I really think you you're the number one draft pick for for me for 2028. The right marketing, the right campaign, the right timing of the book being launched, podcast tour, going out there talking to a bunch of guys like this on the podcast on the other end, people seeing how you handle yourself doing all that other stuff, but you know, just the same way you won as governor where you were at barely 1% on the primary and then all of a sudden, boom, then you get a call saying, "Wait a minute, this guy's the general. Obama's calling you." And then the rest is history. I I and I I'll I'll say this. I um one And and you're right. Uh you know, those people who you mentioned, um They're friends of yours. >> Yeah. And and like and sometimes people like, you know, oh, they're political friend like some of them are like legit. Like, sometimes when you're really wrestling something, um you know, being a governor sometimes can be lonely. And there's not many people you can call up who when you have a conversation with them, you don't always have to provide context. And some of those folks you mentioned are some of the people who I will call up when I don't have time to provide context and they'll just give me their thoughts and their advice and so some of them are just legit friends. Um, the thing I will say You're going to compete against a lot of these guys. Well, no. Well, the thing I'll say is this. If you ask people cuz this is the equivalent of 2020, right? If you ask people in 2020, you went to a Maryland 2020 and say, "You know what? Your next governor is going to be Wes Moore." You know what most Marylanders would have said? Who the hell is Wes Moore? >> [laughter] >> They had no idea who I was and so I just think the whole idea of who is the frontrunner, who is the this, who is the that in 2026, about 2028 is um, you know, I I think history has shown that um, you know, that that's not something that people pay much attention to. >> Are you Are you friends with Rubio or uh, DeSantis or Vance? Is there a friendship? There's a relationship there? There's There's not as much with um, there's not as much with them. I I actually got to know J.D. years ago. Um, and actually ironically it was because I wrote a book called The Other Wes Moore and he wrote a book called Hillbilly Elegy and there were a couple times we did things, you know, because they're like, "His story is kind of the story of rural poverty and The Other Wes Moore is the story about urban poverty." And so it's kind of like this I totally see it. comeback kind of right? >> see it. And he was a military guy. He was all this kind of stuff and I was and I'm a military guy even though he was a Marine and I was I was an Army guy. Army's always better by the way. It's just I I couldn't agree with you more. I I mean, Marines I I mean, they're they're they're it's they're fine, but >> [laughter] >> they're fine. We're going to get in trouble. They're going to run into us. >> know. I know. I know. But But so I so I got to know got to know uh, you know, him him through that. Um, you know, the the the thing though that does, if I'm just being totally honest, um, that person who I, you know, got to know not not terribly well, but just to know them, um, just doesn't seem like the same person that I'm seeing right now. JD? Yeah. Tell me why. Because I just feel like the the foundation feels different. And that's one thing I always tell people is like I remember telling my team when I first ran for governor. I said, "Listen, y'all. Most people don't know who I am. I have no problem introducing myself I will spend all day long introducing myself to people who don't know me. I won't spend a second reintroducing myself to people who do know me. That I take pride in, you know, when people say like when I'm all done with this politics thing um do you know the comment that is going to make me the happiest? If people are like "He's the same dude." Like I've known Wes for 20 years. He hasn't changed. He is who he is. You like him, dislike him. But he is who he is. And he's comfortable in his own skin. Like that's what I want people to always believe in me. Um I don't know if I can say that about JD. And that is not disappointing. It's actually kind of heartbreaking. Um cuz I think that's just tough. And I think that's a really tough existence. Um but um but you know, but I but again, you know, like we talked about before some of these other Republican governors I mean, Stitt uh Spencer Cox in Utah. Like these are these are my guys, man. I mean, and people who I just really lean on, laugh with >> Do you you understand to speak a lot or no? Not a lot cuz he doesn't do a lot with the with the National >> low-key guy. Yeah, he Yeah, he he he doesn't he does not do a lot with the National Governors Association at all. At all? >> Which is which is I I and I'm not going to lie. Um and I and I hope he he hears me on this. Like it is a bit disappointing because I think um it could add value to him and I think he could add value to it. And so, especially as I'm taking on as chair of the National Governors Association in in in June. Um I would love to have Ron more active in the organization. >> Have you called him? Have you guys Have you reached out to him? I haven't reached out to him about this. At all? Like reaching out and talking to him or just about this specifically? >> No, just about this specifically. >> So, you guys have spoken. Oh, no. We we've spoken. We've met each other. We've spoken. So, abs- absolutely. >> No issue No issues when you guys speak. No. >> Mutual respect. >> No. No. I Absolutely. I I know you. >> what, though? Ron, you know, he uh um he's not a like, you know, to me, he's such an operator and a doer Yeah. that he is very much in it. He's He's You know how you say in the business, on the business? He is so in it, right? Where you, you know, you're going out there shaking hands, talking to people, doing your thing, you know, you're being seen. I think he can probably work on doing that more. And this is my guy. This is a guy that I support in a big way. So, especially if he wants to go on to the national scale, you know, you you you you have to be seen with guys on the other side. It can't just be only conservatives. Um and >> about Ron? I'm talking for Ron. I'm not talking to you, cuz you you're doing it with that You'll go You know, you're If you're coming here, you'll go anywhere. So, it's not like you'll go, you know, uh but you know, I'm sure you know behind closed doors that I like you. And I'm sure we know, like we've had the conversation with these different guys that we are friends with, cuz I think you're a fair guy. Let me Let me talk to you as a military guy. Yeah. Afghanistan. What What do you think about what's going on with Iran? I'm honestly curious. What's your opinion? Because that's more of a foreign, you know, do you think that could have been prevented? Are you somebody that's saying, you know, you support the president what he's doing? What's your position on that? >> It It It It absolutely could have been prevented. And then the problem with the So, I I have a few different issues with it. Um one is, for example, I was actually a fan publicly. And I know some people got on me about it, about Midnight Hammer. I was like, I think that's a smart operation. I think it was there was risk analysis. I think there was enough international consensus and coalition about a need to be able to address it. >> Mhm. And at least from what we heard from the initial reports, um it accomplished the set out established mission, right? >> I think that's necessary and required for military operations, right? They were clear about what is the consensus and the goal. Specific for Iran to not have nuclear capabilities. >> Correct. For that reason. >> And I thought Midnight Hammer was the right kind of operation. With the outcome of eliminating Iran having nuclear weapons. Correct. >> capabilities. Okay. >> And and and I and I and I think there is a I think there is a at least I believe there's a bipartisan consensus of the danger of the Iranian regime having nuclear weapons, right? And I very much fall into that that category. Um I am I am not confused about the danger that that regime pose to the world. >> Mhm. The truth is, probably both for you and myself, we lost people because of the Iranian regime, >> Mhm. right? So, I'm very clear on that. >> Mhm. There's a difference between Midnight Hammer and what we're doing right now. Because Midnight Hammer I understood risk calculation and understood like what was it that we were looking to accomplish and once mission accomplishment was laid out, then the operation is complete. No mission creeps. Cuz there's nothing that worries me as a military guy more than mission creep. What is the mission? Know what to accomplish and then once it's accomplished, if you have something else, that's a secondary operation. This is no mission creeps. With this mission, I feel like there's three things we should know every time you decide to deploy military personnel. One, was military force and kinetic force the last option? Two, what is the end state and the mission that people can understand? And that you're able to bring the American people along for it as well, because the American people are paying for this. I mean, we saw testimony today indicating that, you know, and this is this is, you know, DOD's numbers, where they're talking about this has cost around $25 billion so far. Have we really explained to the American people what $25 billion has gone towards? And the third thing is is that what is the international coalition that you're building around it? Now, I'm not saying there needs to be an international coalition to be able to fight wars, because the truth is the US military's one of one. If the US military's coming after you, there's nothing you can do. We're that good. We're that good, right? We are one of one. However, it takes a coalition not to fight the war, but to build the peace. Right? Because one side can start a war. Generally, one side cannot end it. That's where we need to have a sense and a consensus of what this thing is going to look >> You're referencing NATO. Is that Is that a NATO message? >> No, I think I think I think it's it's past NATO. And first of all, I actually think it starts more with the regional partners. Right? Because I think Is NATO going to be important in it? Yeah. But I think NATO also has his hands full in other things. I'm talking about the regional partners. I'm like, are we making sure that we're getting the UAE involved? Are we making sure What has been the conversations with Pakistan? What has been the conversations with Saudi Arabia? What has been the conversations with with with with Egypt and all the other part of Israel? All these other partners that are going to have to be involved in this. And I feel like when you're thinking about all those three criteria, was kinetic operation the last option? Was there a stated end goal and a stated, you know, real mission accomplishment of what this is going to look like? And did you do the work to be able to build out the inner caliber coalitions? I I think the answer in all three of those is is no. And that's what makes me so bothered about where we are right now, where I think there is no one who wants this war to end more right now than Donald Trump. He wants this over. But again, one side can start a war. Generally, one side can't end it. Did you support what he did with Venezuela? Cuz I know midnight hammer you said yet, but did you like the way he did Venezuela? In, out, got Maduro, boom, took control. You like the way he did Venezuela? >> I I I think that I'm >> That was like a ridiculous operation the way they did it. >> It was a ridiculous military operation, sure, 100%. >> Yeah. I think the thing that society can't confuse though is again, our military can kind of do anything. Um while our military can do anything, I don't think our military should do everything. And I would actually put that in the same category, right? Where if you say, "Listen, the job is to go take out Maduro." And the job is to make sure that you are securing the capital and the job is to make Our military can do that all day long and twice on Sundays. But what becomes the larger conversation that is then being had about basic measurements of stability, about what does this thing look like in 6 months, in 12 months, and in 18 months? And if the answer is And if the answer is simply that well, you're still looking at the same type of abuses and maybe what now we've gotten some, you know, some more barrels of oil out of it. Um is that worth that potential risk and cost analysis? And that's the thing that I don't know. >> Oh, but if you if you think about like a a Go go to the other side of the argument because I do think there's a lot of uncertainty with this. Fair enough, that's that's not undisputable. The 13 lives cost, you know, $25 billion. I even think it's more than $25 billion, but let's just say low numbers $25,000. Like $51 billion, but let's say 51 >> I I agree. That's probably my number. Yeah. So uh uh if I think about the way he did it. So he whispers Greenland, people lose their minds. Okay? Why did he say Greenland? Well, we need the resources from there because of China. Okay, so he goes gets Venezuela. And he's doing all the boats and everyone's getting upset and all of a sudden boom, we got Maduro. So, then, suddenly, Venezuela's part of OPEC. We're not part of OPEC. Venezuela's I think they're number seven for the most production out of everybody. Yep. And then, he gets the Panamanian president to tell China, "CK Hutchinson, get these ports out. You have no longer jurisdiction here." So, you mean to tell me they know No, they don't. China doesn't That's massive. So, that's two. So, now China cannot bully us with Panama Canal, and China needs Venezuela. Now, Venezuela's under control of US pretty much, if you think about it. The VP reports to him. And then he goes and does this to Iran. If he's able to pull this off, where now with the blockade, every day Iran is bleeding $450 million, $12 to $13 billion per month, 1 million jobs lost directly, another million lost indirectly, food prices 67% up year over year. They're getting destroyed. All the people that have been gone, the leader went and met with Putin couple days ago, taking a picture together, conversation makes sure Putin is like, "I got your back." If he's able to get the IRGC to be gone, where now Gulf states are supporting what he's doing. UAE now left OPEC. You better believe UAE's got a relationship with Trump that they're talking offline and saying, "Hey, don't worry about it. I'm going to get you a bunch of business. Leave it. You're going to be fine." OPEC is now sitting there cuz OPEC is Iran, Iraq, all these other guys, right? Cuz number one is Saudi, number two is Iraq, three is used to be Iran, now it's UAE, and then four is I think Iran. Yep. If he's able to get this thing done and get rid of IRGC, let's say in the next 6 weeks, story drops, IRGC's gone, they sign a 20-year no no clear capabilities, they're doing nothing, and we have partners where nobody can come and do anything with us in in Strait of Hormuz. We're good to go. Now, we just shipped 910,000 barrels to Japan that just arrived today or a couple days ago. So, now people are ordering from us and China sitting there saying, "Wait a minute. I can't get my oil out of Iran straight of Hormuz. I can't get oil from Venezuela. I can't Wait a minute. I'm cornered now. Don't you Would you be able to comfortably give him the credit on this if that ends up happening? If it's a big if. 5 to 10% chance of that happening. But if it happens I I I actually don't think it's 5 to 10%. I think it's more than that. >> However, of course >> Okay. Listen. All right. If if all of those variables are in place All right. >> then that would be extraordinary. Um but here is but here is what we know right now is right now we have a total blockade of the Strait of Hormuz which is having very real consequences in in And again, not just in the United States. I mean people say, "Yeah, it's having huge impact on gas prices in the US." Yes, I mean gas prices what's over 420 now on national average. But but that's just the US. This is having huge international It is. implications It is. right? That we still have military personnel that are being deployed to include my old unit and I believe to include the 101st as well. And people have to remember, that's not free. Like every time our units move the American people are paying for this. >> Gulf states want IRGC to be gone. 100% >> if we're able to do that that's massive. But we also know that we're talking about a regime that at the start of the year right? When we had an uprising and there were what 20 25,000 people Mhm. that this regime just mowed down Mhm. and massacred >> Mhm. What we haven't seen in the past 60 70 days is the same type of uprising. We haven't seen it. Well, the internet is still not there. So we still can't see anything. They don't know what's going on. Fair. But but we haven't seen that same And you're right. The internet's not there. So we so but And I don't know if you believe that that energy is happening right now. >> The uprising internally? Internally and sorry, internally, yes. >> No, they have the the the challenge they have with that, which is to give you credit on the argument is they thought the military would flip on them and decide to go and say, "Look, well, I'm not with you, IRGC. Whatever you guys are doing, I'm out." That hasn't happened yet. And the weapons that we tried to give to courage, they kept it. It never went to the people. >> Exactly. >> So, that part >> Exactly. I I agree that that part's right. And then Reza Pahlavi is doing a pretty good job, you know, going out there speaking. He's going viral, but quite frankly, mobilizing military hasn't happened. The people have come out. The people have come out for a lot of things, but the mobilizing part with the military side hasn't happened. >> And unfortunately, you know, as we find in these situations, the guys with the guns generally have the bigger voice. >> You're right. And that's the issue that we're facing right now. Is that is you know, when people talk about, "Well, what is going to be the regime change?" For me, regime change is less about personnel, it's more about ideology. Right? It's like you could have a regime change of people, but do conditions change for the people? And let listen, take take take other examples. Take um take Cuba. Right? Take the Cuban example after Fidel died, right? Fidel died, Raul takes over. That's a regime change. It wasn't? And I think we we have to really think critically about what that means and about what the goal then becomes and what it looks like because the same type of energy that we were seeing at the start of the year when it comes to people really uprising and then that's when I think there was a hope for people that the United States and others would come up and support that. And tens of thousands of people were killed. So, that same energy is not there right now, which is not providing any forms of incentive for a regime change in its real meaning to actually exist right now for the RGC. >> Very low I'm saying 5 to 10%. You're saying lower. You're probably right that the chances is slim. But that's even more of a thing that if he does pull it off, I am so curious to know how the critics are going to come out and say Mr. President, credit to you for pulling it off. I'm curious to know what's going to happen there. >> Will you hear me right now? >> No, I respect that. And I don't I don't put you as a critic. I actually think you're a reasonable player. I'm talking about the guys that there's nothing that anybody can do right. You're not in that state. You're you're fairly reasonable guy. Now, I will say one thing though. I still think though that there needs to be a bigger conversation in Congress about how they are looking at war powers. Because and again, to be clear, this is not a Trump thing. We Our last official war was World War II. So, you're trying to tell me the United States has not been in conflicts since World War II? We've been in conflicts every year >> Nonstop. >> since World War II. But the president has the flexibility to be able to do it. Now, do I think there needs to be a bigger Do I think a president needs flexibility because a president is dealing with more information than anyone in Congress. >> And more than definitely more than any of us, right? So, a president needs to have a measure of flexibility to be able to do that. >> it. And I want him to, right? And that's why I want him to, right? And that's why elections matter. Have consequences. >> Right. However, um when we're talking about large-scale, long-term conflicts for there not to be an ability for other bodies to have a say as to what's going on. The fact that we were in Afghanistan for 20 years and never had to go and and and explain what was happening in Afghanistan. And again, I think about this from a very personal perspective. We were there for 20 years. Spent over 2.4 trillion dollars. Lost over 2,400 service people. And never had to, you know, qualified as a war? Say that to the 20 to the families of over 2,400 people. Mhm. >> Say that to the fact that our treasury lost over $2 trillion. So, there's got to be there has to be a different type of conversation about where does jurisdictional prudence for a commander in chief start? And when does authorizing ability for a president of the United States begin? Cuz I do think those things have gotten very, very muddied over the years. And again, this is not a democratic >> right, center dis- By the way, you have the support with that message of a a a lot of people who are with you on that. You wasted wars, money for no reason, weapons of mass destruction, all this stuff that we fell for. You got a guy over there, Vincent Oshana, that's probably listening to this podcast. If he hasn't already left, he's sitting down right now. He was in the Air Force. He was Airman of the Year in the Air Force, right there. He's looking at the glasses, him right there. He for that specific reason, Afghanistan wasted time. He's like, "Dude, I can't even support that." So, he's conflicted. Yeah. >> And he's a Trump supporter. He's conflicted. Like, like, what are we doing here? So, I don't think you're alone there. Let me ask the last thing. And then I got to ask the most important question of it all, which is the Kobe Bryant. We have to get to that here in a minute. But So, the moment you came in, >> Yeah. I was in meetings. My phone's blowing up. Did you see what President Obama just tweeted? I'm like, "What did he just tweet?" So, just so you know, I haven't even looked into this. So, we're both going green into this. And I'm curious to know what you're going to say about this. So, President Obama tweeted this. Uh 2 hours and 14 minutes before you and I started the podcast. Today's Supreme Court decision effectively guts a key pillar of the Voting Rights Act, freeing state legislatures to gerrymander legislative districts to systematically dilute and weaken the voting power of racial minorities so long as they do it under the guise of partisanship rather than an racial bias. And it serves as just one more example of how majority of the current court seems intent on abandoning its vital role in ensuring equal participation in our democracy and protecting the rights of minority groups against minority overreach. The good news is that such setbacks can be overcome, but that will only happen if citizens across the country who cherish our democratic ideals continue to mobilize and vote in record numbers, not just in the upcoming midterms or in high-profile races, but in every election and every level. If you want to go to the story, Rob, I can read it, and I'll turn it over to you. So, New York Times So, Supreme Court weakens a landmark civil rights era law and aids GOP efforts to control the House. If you want to go a little bit lower, Supreme Court on Wednesday hollowed a landmark civil rights era law that increased minority representation in Congress and elsewhere, striking down the majority-black congressional restrict district in Louisiana and opening the door for more redistricting across the count- country that could aid Republicans' effort to control the House. Ruling 6-3, the court's conservative majority found that Louisiana's district represented by Democrat Cleo Fields relied too heavily on race, and Chief Justice John Roberts described the sixth congressional district as a snake that stretches more than 200 miles to link parts of Shreveport, Alexandria, Lafayette, and Baton Rouge. The map is an unconst- constitutional gerrymander, said Samuel Alito wrote for six conservatives. And if you show the map, Rob, I think there's a breakdown by New York Times. If you want to go to the New York Times article, that if Connor hasn't sent it to you yet, uh uh New York Times, what should you put in it? I think the main uh while I'm talking to um uh the governor, he sent it to me. It's a New York Times story. I don't know if you have it or not. So, is that the one? Okay. While you're doing this, what are your thoughts about this, the story and what Barack Obama just said? So, I I think what what President Obama said is is is absolutely correct. Where it is just it feels very odd that you can say that we are okay with partisan gerrymandering but no other forms. Especially when you consider the fact that over 92% of this country has congressional maps that are not competitive. This country is so gerrymandered. And it's actually embarrassing in the way that it's been gerrymandered. I have long believed that we need national redistricting reform. Because this is not okay where we continue to have politicians that that are picking their voters instead of voters picking their politicians. We need to have national gerrymandering reform. Um I also know that what's happening right now and what we are continually to see and why this is such a heated issue for a lot of people is you think about what's happening right now in just the past year. Where these decisions that are being made by the Trump-Pence administration on going after these basic democratic frameworks, right? The idea that we should nationalize elections, even though we know that's unconstitutional. Like part of the part of the beauty of the Constitution is there are state rights. We are in control of our of our elections. So we should not be nationalizing elections. The idea that somehow we should get rid of mail-in balloting, which actually we sued Maryland. I sued the the Trump administration on this and we're going to win in court on this because the president and the federal government does not have the authority to do that. That that when the president's talking about things like, "Well, we should uh take control of the ballot boxes and we need your voter rolls." Again, unconstitutional. The fact that the president is calling up Florida and Texas and Missouri and North Carolina and saying, "You all should do mid-decade redistricting. By the way, everyone else you can't. But you all should do it." This is blatant what is happening right now. And what's happening right now is is this is an assault on the basic democratic framework and the basic democratic values. And so I I I I I think what the president said is not just fact President Obama. What he said is not just factual. But I think he highlights the bigger concern that a lot of us have about some of these actions that are then taking place. When you look at that decision, the the decision around around Louisiana and the Supreme Court decision. Um this was happening because there was just a a a basic and an intentional and a racialized gerrymandering that was then taking place that was disenfranchising black voters. So they're saying we have to come up with ways of being able to make sure that black voters after the passage of the Civil Rights Act would actually be enfranchised and be able to be part of this of of this electoral system. Um by doing this by this action, this does represent one of the largest forms of political redlining that we have now seen in generations. And so um I am very much for national redistricting reform. I think Congress on so many different levels Congress is just completely failing to do its job. This is the most unproductive Congress. Not to mention the fact that this Congress has actually been out of work this year more than they've been in work. >> Lowest lowest approval rating Congress has had in the history. Well, how can you get high approval rating when you're not at work? Like the government has been shut down longer than it's been open this year. This Congress is almost laughable. What is happening right now? And I think when you're looking at what's happening with our Congress, they need to be taking up this issue and they are not. And so we continue now seeing how states are then doing this continual race to a bottom because there's just no type of guidance that we're getting from Congress. >> Yeah, when you think about gerrymandering, it's three ways, right? Partisan, racial, and bipartisan. Very rarely does there bipartisan gerrymandering, but it happens every once in a while. And so this one's born to the racial side. Can you go back to the New York Times article you pulled up? So meaning if this passes, just to put it out there, Yeah. this case hands the house to the Republicans. Democrats who hold 24 seats in Louisiana, you mean to tell me that 24 is going to go to 12? Yeah. Republicans gain 12 more seats just in the state, Rob? And does this apply to any other state or is it just a Louisiana case that they're talking about here? I believe according to this chart it says these states. I think it's Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. >> So all of those states combined, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, all of them, Democrats hold 24. After this, Republicans get 12 more seats. And and and if you look at this map, right? This if you look at the 24, even that's just a fraction of this map, right? But then you take a look at to the right side. Look at that. Is that is that really what we think is fair representation? And this this becomes the the the challenge. And by the way, it's actually not even just about these states. What it's also doing is you're now setting legal precedent that you're going to now have other states who are then going to try to navigate this. It's the same reason why the Supreme Court earlier uh proved because of their ruling that partisan gerrymandering is allowed, that partisan gerrymandering is legal. So you saw how other states were then moving and using and being completely blatant about the fact they're like Yep, this is a partisan gerrymander. I want I want three more seats. I want three more Republican seats. I want three more Democratic seats. And do you know why they were unafraid to say that? Was because of precedent. So now this is adding on a whole new layer of precedent. Yeah, because gerrymandering is what? Once every 10 years, Correct. It's on the census. every 10 years on the census. >> On the census. And typically who gets criticized the most? Illinois, I believe is one of them, right? Can you go to Illinois gerrymandering cuz they have like a monopoly on their house on their representatives if I'm not mistaken that the the the numbers in Illinois it has to be what is the number? I think it's honestly like 86% is on the Democratic side in the state of Illinois 14-3. So 14-3 is what it is with Illinois if I'm not mistaken. Is [clears throat] it? Yeah, 14-3. So Illinois congressional Democrats created a 14-3 to Republicans when they did this in 2021 and so often cited as one of the most aggressive gerrymanders in the US it packs Republican voters into a few districts reducing GOP seats from five to only three. Okay, California tried to do it as well and they're at 43-9. Can you type in something California? I think it's 43-9 if they were able to pass it in California it would be 48-4 which means California is going to be controlled on the left for God knows how long. I want to say they're right now at 43-9 with the yep 43-9. And if they pass it. So you know, people will say this happens on both sides. It happens on both sides. And if they could do it they would do it. If they And by the way, there's there's groups of people on both sides that like I hate gerrymandering. Let's put a stop to it. None of this should be happening. Let go of it. Left, right, center just let the people vote the way they're voting. Do you We don't need to be doing this part. And there's a lot of people on the Republican and Democratic side and then there's the people that are like if you're going to do it I'm going to do it. If the person could do it I'm going to do it. If you're going to And then you know, there's no stopping there. And and and and this becomes the problem with this larger political system that it it's not even just the back and forth, right? Cuz cuz you do have the issue of the back and forth and but and and and let's be clear. Like I understand why you have the back and forth because you cannot have people who are just trying to rob an election in front of your face and you're just sitting there and taking I got to get you to a dinner. So No no but but but you know, but I'm I'm lost. But um but but so you can't you can't let that be the case. You've got to be able to fight. You've got to be able to fight, particularly when when our democracy is on the line. Yet, at the same time, we need Congress to put an end to this because this type of these type of actions, what are happening right now, the fact that you have districts in in in Maryland, in my state, that are just not competitive. That when a person wins a primary, that's it. It's over. They're not going to lose in a general. And unfortunately, that's the way it works in the vast majority of these congressional districts all across the country and even in my state. Where the biggest competition you're going to have is a primary. But once you win a primary, you're good. And that that includes both Democratic seats in my state and it includes the Republican seat inside of my state because this packing that often times takes place. Like, we've got to be better as a country. And I think we and and we need to, but until we get Congress to do something so basic, just do your job, guys. Until we get that, we end up getting this. >> This is this is this is massive. This is massive for something like this. Listen, Republicans are probably celebrating. This is massive, but this is one of those things where No, no, I I I'm I'm with you where there's a lot of people that agree with you that this is not okay. Last story, your team's text me you got a dinner to get to. I want to get you to dinner. That was great. Share your story with Kobe. I want to know the Kobe Bryant story because I you know you know Kobe and I you know, we had a Oh, we had a Oh, you interviewed him. >> Yeah, we have a very very good relationship. It was a devastating day for us when we when when when it happened. And you know, he was he's one of a kind man. I mean, I'm a I'm a you know, I'm a I'm a die-hard die-hard Kobe fan and what he did. So, but what's your story with Kobe? >> he was one of a kind, bro. And I'm going to lie. I mean, he was when he was coming out of high school cuz that's where where I first got a chance to meet him when he was actually a high school senior. And um >> [laughter] >> And another true story, I did not think he was going to be as good as cuz he was very good in high school, but I was always like, "Ah, his jump shot isn't quite there." And I'm thinking like you're going to the NBA, like shows how much I know about freaking basketball. Um And cuz also you can never measure someone's work ethic. Um yeah, that's the year he was in Lower Merion. So that was the Kobe that I got a first chance got a chance to meet. Uh his cousin slash friend, he said he was his cousin. I think that's right. Uh played for my high school team. And he was like, "Listen, you know, being and I are going out to a movie. You want to come out?" I was like, "Yeah, of course." So I'm a high school senior. Uh Kobe's a high school senior and our buddy's a high school senior. We go out to a movie. Go buy movie tickets. Sitting there, getting popcorn. And this was I'm trying to remember if he had just declared for the draft or he was right before he declared for the draft. But Kobe was the thing in, you know, the suburbs of Philadelphia. And everywhere else, but you know. Um so somebody comes up and is like, "Hey, think I can get an autograph?" He's like, "Yeah." Then two more people. Then four more people. Now there's just a crowd around Kobe. And I'm sure this is not a very comfortable thing for Kobe cuz he's like, "We just want to go get a movie to a movie." And And but the truth is Kobe was what, like 6' 6" or something like that. Uh you know, our buddy was 6' 9". And so you can't miss him. You can't You can't miss them. And so and finally Kobe just kind of, you know, goes to, you know, goes to our my teammate and he's like and he whispers something and he comes over to me and he's like, "Hey, do you mind if we just get out of here?" Cuz I think Kobe at that point realized this is not going to be a fun evening anymore. So he was like I was like, "Yeah, no problem." And our buddy was like, "But don't worry, we'll we'll give you the the back for your for the movie ticket." cuz like we're in high school, man. It's like that's not whatever it was back then, five bucks, six bucks, right? >> of money. >> That's a lot of money back then. So, like, okay, yeah, cool. Don't worry about it. And I never forgot the fact that I never got my money back cuz I was always like, yo, like I I really wanted my money back. [laughter] What was the movie about? What were you guys going to do? Do you remember the movie or not? >> at this point, but it was [laughter] it was 1996 and uh you know, I um >> ever see him again? Was there any any other encounter? >> him again. I never And And I always said I said I I really hope I get a chance to see him cuz I want to share that story with him. Um um but the thing that I loved about um Kobe and why I was such a fan is he completely understood that to be great it means sacrifice. It means that if you really want to be great at something it means the other stuff might have to go off to the side. And not everyone's going to like it. Not everyone's going to understand it. You will get judged. You will get criticized. Block it out. Mhm. And that Mamba mentality >> Mhm. that he brought to basketball, that I think he brought to the business world after he was done with basketball um is actually a really important lesson learned because whether you are a soldier with 101st or an entrepreneur you got to block stuff out. There are things that other people going to say, "Hey, Patrick, let's go Mhm. No. Can't. I'm working. Or there's going to be people distractions saying like this person said this about you. Don't care. Mhm. Focused. There is something that I think he provided such a beautiful lesson to humanity >> Mhm. about if you want to be great know what that looks like and know what's required. And that's the only way you can ever actually achieve your greatness. And I think you going to have some Mamba mentality between now I hope you bring it out in 27, 28. I want to see what you're going to do. You know, I'm I'm I'm stirring a pot but a part of me wants to see you up there man. I can't wait you're going to be up there I'm going to be like >> [laughter] >> But I'm excited for I truly I truly enjoy talking to and I know I would. I knew I would when we were everybody would tell me you're going to love this guy. You're going to love this guy. Uh you're class act just talking to you man just hearing you know your story your background what you've done one of the you're telling me my story off the camera. One of the best stories 18 years can you imagine like if it happens one day and it's like it started off with this it'd be one of the greatest success stories of all time. Appreciate your time. Appreciate you for coming out. Is there a site is there anything you want people to go to is there anything where if if people want to see more things that you're working on is there anything we want to drive to? Yeah, I think um well if you if people go to to wesmoore.com they can see a lot of the stuff that we're doing and also just some of the work that we're doing that we're doing in Maryland. You can go to to maryland.gov and you get a chance to see exactly what we're working on. All of our social stuff is is at both I am Wes Moore and also Gov Wes Moore. Put everything below Rob so the audience can find him. Yeah, but you know but I I think you know listen I and I and I'll I'll say I'll say this this this one thing if this okay too. Um you know I really believe that God doesn't make mistakes on stuff. Right? Whether we fully understand it or appreciate it and sometimes we can even push back against it it's like God is in charge of everything. And I think that this moment is it is a really complicated moment for people and I think for a lot of people it's a scary moment. I think for a lot of people it's an uncertain moment. I mean we didn't even get a chance to talk about AI and some technology and and some of the things that I am incredibly excited about and some things that I am I want folks to pay attention because we have not seen a technology like this. And I think we have to be very clear about the type of guardrails that we need to think about. Um however, I think about even in our most complicating moments in our nation's history, there have been two things that have gotten us through. It's been God's grace and moral leadership. That's it. Everything falls into those things. God's grace, moral leadership. If we can lean on those two things inside of this moment, um I think it's just important to remind people that we've seen tough times before and we're okay before. We'll be okay again. My man. Excited about this conversation. I wasn't expecting it to go this good. Take care everybody. Go to his website. Subscribe. God bless everybody. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. When we set out to create a shoe that blends comfort, [music] function, and luxury, we had the choice to make it fast, we had the choice to make it cheap. We chose neither. Instead, we chose Tuscan Italy. We chose [music] true Italian craftsmanship. Each pair touched by 50 skilled hands. 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