Gianmarco Soresi on Drugs, Dancing and Divorce | FULL EPISODE

My guest today is a social media clip star. This guy's a one of the top clip stars. He's got a clip farm. He's a clip farmer. >> I see one empty chair, Jamargo. >> Oh, right. That was for Lindsey Graham. Can we say it? >> A moment of prayer. >> It's American Gothic, but it's him and a Clipper and a Southeast Asian Clipper next to him. Um, he's got uh he had a YouTube special. I don't remember what it was called, but it was good. And I DM' him about it. Uh, he told me somebody else DM'd him about it. That was a little embarrassing for him. And you're on the road. >> Uh, yeah. Always. >> John Marco Seri, everybody. >> Yes. Hello. >> Please clap. >> How are you? Um, let's talk about your wardrobe. Um, on your specials. >> I come from a [ __ ] up family >> and I know that doesn't make me special in this room. [laughter] >> Your wardrobe, you dress like you're a theater rehearsal. Yeah, I like that casual. It's It's Sometimes I see comedians, they try to put on that suit Yeah. at the wrong time and you go, "Oh, it doesn't feel natural to you." >> Yeah. >> And I hate dressing up. >> I [bell] hate dressing up. >> Cuz I was thinking about like, well, all comedians used to wear suits and then somebody took the tie off and then somebody took the jacket off and like it goes down the line. Although I don't think Lenny Bruce wore suit. So So you're just like, h you don't think it makes a difference? >> I just think it's like I approach it like what do I what do I wear? And I have this like desire of like authenticity to myself. >> And I I like wearing shorts. I like wearing I the number of times I I've gone to the seller and I'm go like I'm going to wear shorts today and then and then Valerie's like and I always bring pants. That's how that's how I know I'm not brave cuz I always bring a backup plan. >> That's so funny. >> And I change in the bathroom stall and it's humiliating. [laughter] like they that's I didn't even know they I we've talked about it. Somebody told me a long time ago that in England if you wear if you just wear shorts like to a festival people think less of you. I don't know if that's still true. This he told me this in the '9s. >> Yeah. >> Um I here's what I think I wore shorts to a Radio Head concert. >> Uhhuh. >> And he saw me and was like I [laughter] think he got me tickets and was like we don't this is not going to work. >> It's one of those things where it's like okay culture exists. Do you want to fight it and make no different? Like it's like Yeah. Some cultures you wear a kilt and I think it would be great if we could have those options here and you decide how much do you want to battle? >> Yes. And you don't >> it's not it's also becomes about who's that? Do you see the guy in the shorts on Netflix? >> Yes. Yes. I know. It's like I think it's my my dad was such a slob [bell] that I never grew up to respect like just clothes in general and it all it all felt oppressive to me and I'm doing better than him >> even though based on the the your material that I've seen and and some of your blocks that I've previewed here. Yeah. uh that your your relationship with your parents is uh if not iffy. Well, how would you describe it? >> Dad Dad is rough. Dad is >> okay. You could have gone like wear a tuxedo all the time because he doesn't float. >> Yeah. I mean, but truly I feel like my version of wearing uh a shirt is me rebelling against my father. If I was wearing a a wife beater on stage, then I'd be like, "Okay, I'm my father." So wearing a shirt is my version of wearing a shirt. >> This is an upgrade. >> Yes. >> So he he's the he's very Italian. >> It's kind of fake and it's hard to know like like his >> sounds like a fake Italian name. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's it's Sicily. It was a pasta. A a cousin thrice removed has reached out. So I have confirmed it's real. >> Y >> but it's hard like he raised me as if I was as if we were 100% Italian. Yep. >> And my Jewish mom wasn't in the room to counter it. >> And he doesn't care about his maternal lineage at all. He just cares about like the the his father. >> Were they Italian? >> No. I thinkal I think I I never met my my grandfather died before I was born. But I think on the maternal side it goes back to like Spain >> and I'm like all the material I could have had about being from Spain. >> It's not too late. I know >> you they were but they got uh they got divorced. >> Well, I was very young before I mean before I was uh >> Yeah. What's the story? Because I'm It's It is a It's like a little crazy. >> Somewhere in the first half year of life they got they got divorced. >> Were you their first child or second? >> First first. >> First and only. >> Yeah. So, they were married and my dad was just I think he's just a a cheater by nature. And what happened, >> the way my mom told me way later, not when I was a kid, was that someone thought they saw my dad at dinner with another woman, told my mom. My mom without any like real proof said to my dad, uh uh I heard someone saw you with another woman. And my dad said, "Let's let's let's I'm coming home. Let's talk." Like he folded. She she bluffed. She bluffed like I saw you and he immediately folded. and uh famously said said to her like, "I'm not going to change." He said like, "This is who I am. I'm not going to change." >> How long did they know each other before they got married? >> I don't know exactly. They don't they don't reminisce about the good times much, but I think like I assume like two years, I think. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And he was probably cheating and just didn't get caught. >> Yeah, I guess so. He's he's he was so he's just a good-looking guy. Women just like flocked to him. Do you understand it? >> Do you understand cheating? Not like like you're like fighting it all day every day, but like you go like, "Yeah, it's easy. It's easy in the short term." >> Yeah. I I think it's like it's one of those things I I do wonder like would my dad be one of those like trying to talk about open relationships like like So there's so many there's so many guys. Of course, I understand the desire, >> the desire to sleep around. I don't know if he's also like a liar by nature. Like he just likes that. He likes the mystery. >> It's funny cuz like he had all these girlfriends. I never once overheard him having sex. I never like >> I I I think he's more about drama. Yeah, >> that's what I think. [laughter] That's what I think. and his father was a was a big cheater and like ran away with someone he was sleeping with. So, >> and you is it one of these things you can't open it up? You can't you can't unpack it like that like we do now >> with him >> unpack everything. Yeah. >> Yeah. He apologized more recently, like randomly out of the blue, like I'm sorry that I did that because I think the part that was [ __ ] up was his girlfriends or at one point a woman he he married sort of would disappear from my life and he would describe it as oh they just went they went nuts [snorts] and it's like now it's like it's so clear what happened is he just got caught. Yeah. >> And so that's that's the it's hard to feel resentful when you find out about something so much after the fact. I I wouldn't know to yell at yell at myself. I don't It's like you Yeah. Well, that's a interesting point of view, which is >> cuz the first thing is like therapy would have you like blame and mourn and >> hold accountable and but it's also like it's a little more complicated than like I don't know I if you're a cheater what you just go like then don't marry. There's like these foundational things that are way too late. >> Yeah. >> Like then don't be honest. >> Yeah. >> It's 1983 or whatever year it is. be let's all be honest about what we're like. But that's not what happened. >> Yeah. I I I don't know what would have been a better I think what sucks about it now is it's just like Yeah. You made your bed and now you don't have that longtime partner. And and you see >> he needs that. He needs partner. >> 73. >> Yep. >> And I remember once he he had a he had a surgery. He fell off he's he rides horses and he fell off a horse and needed a surgery. and my uh ex, I say stepmom because the marriage wasn't real, but they had a ceremony was there at the >> What wasn't real about it? >> So, my [clears throat] stepgrandfather >> uh was a was a priest >> um dean of students, I think Georgetown University, right? >> Fell in love with my grandma who was a secretary, >> right? >> And basically naive priest. He wrote the pope being like, "Hey, can we make an exception?" and he was excommunicated. [laughter] >> Look, I'm trying to be try to be open about it. >> So he >> Look, Pope, I'm [ __ ] this girl. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You could That was probably Polish Pope. But yeah, >> I can't imagine what he thought would happen. They sent him to a psychord at one point cuz they were like, "You're clearly crazy." >> Cuz he wasn't [ __ ] boys. They were like, "What are you doing?" Yeah, a woman. >> An adult woman. >> And so he I think what happened is my stepmom got pregnant. They had a quick ceremony to make it feel maybe for her family, I assume. Um to make it feel like, oh, it's it's don't worry. >> So your grandfather's out of the church, but he gets married and he's excommunic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Forgive me. So So he conducted the ceremony between my father and my stepmother, >> but he's not a priest anymore. So it wasn't it wasn't a real uh and I I don't think it was legally signed into anything. It was kind of a show I think for her family or for her I don't know. >> Are they so these It sounds like a bunch of human beings doing I guess coping like just like ah >> Yeah. >> improvising poorly. >> Mhm. Do you find that that comes up in your character like where you're like you find yourself justifying crazy [ __ ] or like I think I'm more like I play it safe. I think I'm just like I'm I I saw that chaos and I was like the drama that these people have created for themselves is is so absurd. I've always want I think I'm overly transparent. I don't want to lie because I think my my whole existence was filled with so many people lying. And >> your mom was like had some she was interesting also, right? >> Yeah. She was she was always more transparent about like who she like my dad pretended he never did drugs. He was a [ __ ] hippie >> during the Woodstock era. My mom was uh she lived in Great Neck >> and she was going to Studio 54 at 14 and she was I mean she was partying it up. Yeah. So, she told me about her life and it was rough. >> Uh just just [ __ ] up family, alcoholic parents, did a lot of drugs >> and I thought it was much more beneficial to me like growing up. Like I didn't do drugs because she told me how scary it was when she did acid as opposed to being like I never did. >> What What did she say? >> She says it was like she got caught in a closet and was stuck in a closet the whole night and just freaked the [ __ ] out. And that was enough for me to be like, "Yeah, never." >> And then I did in my 30s. >> It explains the clothes as well. [laughter] >> Yeah. And did you Oh, so you were like you did some drugs in your 30s. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. I smoked pot, you know, more later in life. And I And I like pot. And in the last 5 years, uh, my my girlfriend finally got me to do shrooms. And I like shrooms. Acid is acid. >> Acid. You don't I had a I had a like depressive dip. Suddenly started crying and I was like never again. uh towards towards the second half. The come down from acid for me is not fun. Not fun. >> Yeah. It I think acid it's like any of these drugs, some work for some brains and some don't. It's like it's like it that it's like the right >> the right medication. >> It was uh one of her friends house and they're all friends now, but but her her husband he's just like he builds things with his hands. He like he built this shed. there's something that I couldn't do with a gun to my head and we went to his garden and I had this o I was like I am nothing >> I am not a man >> I cannot build >> if if uh the structure of society collapsed at all my skills are entirely useless in this new society >> I mean who wants to hear a joke we need to build a roof >> we're we're five years minimum away from >> and that's what I felt it so intensely on acid And I just started crying. I was like, I'm nothing. >> Did you change? What? For some people, that could be a wakeup call. >> No, I am I am what what I am. >> No, I know. Well, that's what it's the it's like the you like I'll watch YouTube tutorials. There's no YouTube. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's all over. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. Then I don't >> I guess I'll like sexual f I don't like Yeah. I I have no um >> I converted into like, well then I'm going to be the best [ __ ] comedian of all [laughter] time cuz I can't build a roof. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think we just have to hope that society remains intact and it it's [music] it's dayto-day. You know, I'm always open to a little little pepper, you know what I mean? Little I used to be a nicotine guy and I'm still a caffeine guy. You really, you just want a little a little zing, you know what I mean? So, they got pouches now. I love any new technes. Let's go. I'm with it. I was finding that caffeine was making my like at a certain point, maybe like an hour and a half after if I ate a little something, I was like going a little nuts. So, I've been looking for a way out of the calf game and I've been out of the nicotine game. But, here come ultra pouches. Complete game changer. They're good for focus and energy levels, which is kind of all anybody wants for anything. They're instant focus in a pouch. I I'm on my I think I my second tin. I didn't bring them. And uh they're just like they just Can you hear the snap? They're completely nicotine free and caffeine-free. Okay, Neil. Great. What's in them? Great question. Ultra partnered with leading neuroscientists to design these pouches. They use clinically proven neutropics and adaptogens to deliver immediate focus and smooth energy that lasts 1 to two hours. And by the way, it's not like unnerving. It's like you still you're cool, but you have you're locked in. What's my favorite flavor? Great question. Mint. Yes, mint. It's crisp and refreshing. They also have wintergreen. I've never understood the distinction between mint and wintergreen. Just pick one. It's like cream and off-white. Come on. Tropical. I think I had it. Watermelon's good. Blue rz. Sweet and tart. Here's the call to action. Ultra is the ultimate guilt-free pouch delivering instant focus and mental clarity without nicotine or caffeine. New customers can use code ne to get 15% off at takeultra.com. That's take t a kelt r a.com for 15% off with code neil. That's takeultra.com promo code Neil. Uh after your purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. >> Okay. So, the impact of divorce. Yeah. >> My parents were not divorced, but they were unhappily together. >> So, I always wonder >> when I I hear about the impact of divorce, but I don't >> I don't think I really I can't really fathom it. >> Is there the impact for you? It happened before you were conscious, right? So >> yeah, I think I think the impact is the custody arrangement. I think it was like I went back and forth on this two week cycle that would just repeat itself and >> same school you'd stay in school. >> Same school. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They they didn't live too far away from each other. >> And in a way like the back and forth is almost when I reflect on it, I'm like it was neurotic in its concoction. It was like, "Okay, well, a couple days here and then a couple days back and then a couple days back here." And it's like, it feels like the priority is the parents making sure they get their time and not >> does this kid feel a sense of stability at any point in his life. >> So, it was like I wouldn't get fully settled at one place. I had, you know, three siblings on my mom's side and then, you know, I spent some of my life with them. >> So, your mom remarried? My mom remarried uh a guy who had been my dad's lawyer. >> Um >> this is great. >> It wasn't like, you know, he wasn't still working for my dad, but it was a complete opposite of a person than who my father was. >> He was from Ohio, raised Catholic, but but no one was excommunicated and and was strict as hell. >> Yeah. And so I had very different also my back and forth life was just so >> different because of that. My dad was a bachelor. He was he was trying to make his house. >> He there was this thought of of my dad's house was so fun. Like maybe if I wanted I could go to court and testify and say I want to be with my dad all the time. That was always like floating in the background. And my dad, he never like pushed me that hard, but he was like, "You could do this." And the thought of I remember thinking like >> you would testify against your mother >> essentially. Yeah. That that I would that testify against I I would say I want to be with my dad full-time. >> And that was it wasn't explicit, but it was like >> Yeah. It was brought up like you could do this if you want. And I don't know if you should tell a kid that. >> No. because I love my mom, but my stepdad was like the antagonist of my of the narrative of my youth. So, it's the back and forth part where it's like you, for example, I I would see my dad in the two week one of the weeks I'd see him just Thursday and Friday. And so, it would be like, well, I'm not going to go out with my friends Friday because this is the only time for me to see my dad. >> And it probably felt there was probably some guilt on your end of like I should see my dad or did you want to see? wanted to and and he had no friends so we would hang and it would be fun like it was fun to hang with my dad. >> Oh yeah. >> And I think it it just gradually your whole life doing this. You don't build a social life and my dad's just a no social life guy. You know he dates and so I don't see how friendships work, how adult friendships work, how >> school it never really never took hold like socializing and friendship. >> Yeah. I mean I think I had you know two or three friends but like you know you would you just wouldn't go out because every every Friday would be accounted for right out the gate. I would want to see my dad. >> What would you guys do? What would you and your dad do? >> We just veg out watch Seinfeld. Um and he'd just be there, you know. He was he was he was fun. We'd just eat like [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And and watch Honestly Seinfeld was the show that we'd watch. Did you watch three or four? >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. And it's crazy cuz >> this is what years. >> This is all of all of middle school. >> So what what calendar years? >> Oh, um let's see. I was born 88. >> Uh so so that it was the >> '9s. Yeah. Yeah. 90s04. >> And um we had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun. And then when he had when he had another kid, that's when I stopped being an only child on that side. I was an only child at my dad's house. My mom's house, I had three siblings eventually, >> but when I went to my dad's, I was the only child. I was the prince. My dad was there to make it so fun that I might betray my mother to stay there forever. He said to me once, he's like, "What do you have at your mom's house you do not have at my house?" And let's go get him. He he was I mean and also like Eminem I I wasn't allowed to listen to Eminem at my mom's house. I could at my dad's my stepdad to wouldn't let my siblings watch. >> So you must have been like I this I'll wait I'll this I'm going to consume I'm going to do this but I'll just wait till Friday. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like this is nothing. >> Yeah. >> Was it when you call the stepdad antagonistic? Was it like hostile? >> It was it definitely was >> hostile. Was it more hostile to you than his blood children >> in different ways? I mean, they had to deal with like his form of uh of of punishment to my sisters would he'd say, "Present your hand." And then he'd go, "Now, not not so hard it would leave a bruise. It was more about shame." >> Yes. >> But to my father, who I think the nuns used to hit him with a ruler and his dad beat him, had a brutal, the thought of any kind of physical anything was like, >> "You might as well be an Italian man, you don't had a you don't I mean you do back in the old country, but >> so like in that sense they got a tougher version, but he was I do think there was some resentment because I I come from a different I'm a foreigner. I have my own rules. Yeah. I uh I'm I would come from my dad's in my mom would pick me up from my dad's and she'd say, "When I pick it from your dad, you're you're so different." A horrible thing to say to a kid. >> Yeah. But it's because I would cover my dad's wearing a wife beater and shorts and like I transformed Yeah. into a slob. >> Yeah. >> And so I think my stepdad was like >> there was resentment. Of course if I had a if I had a bad dream at my dad's house I I slept in his bed on and off for a lot of my childhood. You know whatever mom's house if I had a nightmare I can't sleep in the bed with my stepfather. So, I would sleep >> uh to the side of her bed on the floor >> on her side. >> Yeah. And I remember once walking in and and it was one of the two times I saw my mom naked, you know, I just I had a nightmare or whatever and I went in there and it was just like, "Ah." And I remember the look on my stepfather's face and it was years later that I was like, I and knowing their life more. I'm like, I bet this was like the one time they were going to [ __ ] that year. And I destroyed it. >> Yeah. >> And I remember the look on his face. And as I get older, I'm like, "Oh, that's a guy who just lost [ __ ] for the night." >> Yeah. >> Because of a guy who looks like >> his former client and his wife's ex-husband. >> That's very funny. So, it sounds like you were just kind of like looking for like a consistent treatment. >> Yeah. >> And like not the And in chaos. I have fantasies about when my friends start getting divorced with custody that they come to me and I give them advice. >> Yeah. >> And I'm like without doing the research, it's like do alternate weeks or what was unfathomable as a kid, but now I'm like maybe that's better. It's like dad for the summers, mom. Like this idea of going back and forth within a week is is crazy. It it's not good. >> That's what most people do, right? It seems like a lot of people do like he he gets them Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and I get them. >> I think that that seems to be what most people do. And I think that's >> You think it's dead wrong? >> It's dead wrong. And I think there's better versions and worse versions. Like the fact that my parents split up a Friday at my dad's, Saturday, Sunday at my mom's. It's like, no, you got to keep the weekend together. You got to keep the weekend together. Well, it sounds like so I I'm sure it happens with everyone, but it sounds like they're competing with each other. >> Yeah. >> For time with you, and it's not about like connecting with you. Or maybe it is a little bit, but it feels more competitive toward the other person and less about like how how are you doing with this? But this is also like when was the custody arranged? Oh, right when you found out he was cheating on you. Yeah. >> And your baby beautiful baby boy who's so a child. Yeah, this is when you're you're going with two lawyers and figuring out the system. Of course, it's not well constructed. If anything, I would say to divorce parents like check back in every couple years and when the kids's old enough, say, "Hey, let's let's bring you at the table. Get the lawyers out of here." >> Did they interact with each other like at drop off? >> So, they they did my dad would do this crazy thing where he would pick me up and he would be like, "Can I use the bathroom and like take a shit?" And I'm like, this is so this is so beastial, >> fantastic. >> Uh they they did talk like in the beginning they they would try to do this I think like a monthly dinner and I remember they would bring my dad would bring a present and just to make it feel like like Pavlovian. This is good. We're all happy. And then by the third one they got in a fight and I remember I think my dad leaving the table before the appetizer came and I was like well this was a failure. They my dad went to Thanksgiving a couple times way back and and you know then my my stepdad would do that to my sister and my dad would go what the what the hell are you doing? And they would clash. >> Yeah. And there was still some communication until my dad uh had a custody battle over my halfsister on that side. So this when I was 13 14 I I think um he met this woman she got pregnant and then you know my dad I don't know all the deal but my dad did something suddenly she was sleeping in the basement. I had just been told from my father she had a tough childhood and having a kid triggered it and I go, "Oh, okay." Then one day she's >> where do I sign off? >> Yeah. Yeah. And my in their custody battle, my mom testified, I think, on her behalf. And to my father, this was you're preventing a man from seeing his daughter. You're dead. At the time, I remember >> he did nothing to to He had nothing to do with nothing. >> He had nothing to do with anything. >> She the mo the mother had a tough childhood. He was that he would have been there >> seven 24 hours, seven days a week. >> And I when I was a kid, it was like why? It was painted as my mom did this out of a a just cruelty or just hated him so much that he wanted to deny him his daughter. She's told me since, and again, I I don't both narratives I I question, but she's told me since that they were having their own lawsuits, whether about alimony or custody or something, and that he was going into this trial painting their arrangement and their divorce as completely amicable and easygoing and just lying. >> Yeah. and somehow that would impact her. So, she needed to testify. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if she needs to testify. I think there was there was some degree of like it was said at some point like worried about my halfsister or like wanting to take care of her and I'm like, I don't believe that. I don't believe you you care. >> Yeah. Yeah. And there was always a weird thing where sometimes these exes would be friends with suddenly they're friends with my mom and you're like that's so [ __ ] up. >> They have a lot in Yeah, >> they do. They have a lot in common. >> Yeah, they have one thing in common. >> It's like like the opposite of my dad's fan club. Just just people that who hate him >> and uh that was weird. That was >> so it just sounds like a lot of what we now call messiness. >> Yeah. Yeah, but the question is like knowing my dad, what was he doing to bring this on? He was he not paying alimony? I mean, you you just have friends who divorced like the debate about >> they're furious about alimony. They met a guy that was like, it's a fair >> especially if they get remarried to another man. There's a degree where they go, >> well, >> yeah, why am I? >> You got that I got to keep giving. >> Yeah. >> And and the the nuances of it are are are tough. But my dad just kind of got screwed with with custody. How does my question is how does this construct you? What is it? So then then because of this you are what? >> I lost being the star of my dad's home. >> Yeah. And suddenly my my little sister is is being treated like uh everything is is at the whims [clears throat] of a three-year-old and a four-year-old dinner movies and this is my my Friday. this is the the weekend day and I don't have any social life so I don't have another thing to do and now my dad's whole world >> you put all your eggs in that basket you're like [ __ ] dude I thought thought we were doing that within >> and I'm experiencing like I imagine my dad's girlfriend's had to deal with me like everything had to be about me this little kid cuz he wanted his house to be amazing for me cuz maybe I'll go there full-time or god forbid the opposite I go I want to stay with mom >> yeah And now I'm like experiencing what it's like when someone else is that prized person. And it it it sucked. It's it sucked. >> Is that your origin story for the rest of your life? >> It felt like the second chapter of my life. Like there was there was the chapter where it's like me and my dad. >> Y >> me and my dad and sometimes I have to see my evil stepdad. >> And then at that point it was like [ __ ] this. Everything sucks. And I think it [ __ ] I mean, >> but yeah, I'm sure you can go like, "Yeah, I get it. He's in a new relationship. He's a new dad with this other woman. He wants to she's with a guy and she wants to be a woman in a relationship." And like you become an inconvenience. >> Yeah. And also my dad when I was a kid, he told me he said to me every all the time he'd say, "Son, I'm never going to have another kid." And my mom would always go like, "I don't know why the [ __ ] he said that to you." >> Yeah. >> And it's like if he if he said they should have worn a condom every time. Yeah. And and so it was just like a betrayal of like the the deep inner narrative that I had was like I'm my dad's guy. >> Yeah. >> And we we're a team and it just like it shattered that. >> And then Okay. So then what h then [music] what does that become? So guys, support for today's episode comes from Square, the system powering like half the places I go. If you've ever tapped to pay and thought, "Whoa, that was fast." It was probably Square. Whether you're selling lattes, cutting hair, detailing cars, or running a design studio, Square helps you run your business without running yourself into the ground. And now, right now, listeners can get up to $200 off Square hardware when you sign up at square sq.com/go/neal. That's squaresq.com. visit Square to get started because the right tools make all the difference. I I remember the days before Square before any of this stuff where everything you had to take your thing out and by the I mean say nothing about cash took forever. You had to get the validate the thing and the card and you have to wait and then Square is has smoothed it all out, baby. 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Please stop what you're doing and listen to this call to action. Upgrade your everyday. Download the Quint app for app exclusive offers or go to quint.com/nal. Get free shipping on your order and 365day returns. Now available in Canada and the United Kingdom, too. That's quinti.com. quint.comal. Do it. It's really good. Legitimately good. I'm assuming you're a theater kid before that. You're You have a flare for the dramatic. >> Yeah. Deeply unathletic. Like just brutal. >> It is a funny thing that like you kind of have to be athletic as a kid. >> Yeah. >> It's just a odd thing cuz it's not once you're an adult completely goes away. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Like there's no premium on being athletic. And it's crazy because now I do >> I mean on the in the now what >> now I you know work out and all these things and as a kid it was one of those things where it's like >> I think I was I was so out of shape no sports are going to be fun. It's like first you got to get me a little bit in shape so I'm not huffing and puffing >> chubby. I had I had big tits >> and I was very self-conscious about my tits. >> Great. >> Uh >> t-shirt in the pool that type thing. >> No but the second I got out of the pool I put the towel around me here. Yes. And some guy was like, "That's Women wear the towels like that." And I was like, "Get the [ __ ] out of here. [ __ ] you." [laughter] So many pool parties right at this moment. Like when you're truly going through puberty, it's like >> it's Bo Burnham. That great sequence in eighth grade where it's like [music] >> Yes. >> the entrance to the pool party and it was like >> it's brutal. >> Yeah. So yeah, I think I always liked performing like from I used to like my dad would put on disco music and my mom too and I would dance in the living room. We dance just [ __ ] around and and I said at like four like we got to get this living room on a stage so people can witness this. I don't know what it is. What is that? >> Because you're not do you're not like I'm a child. I like when people are just hungry for showbiz for no reason other than they came out hungry for showas. Not like this origin story of like my father and it's it's it sounds like you just wanted to do it anyway and then all this stuff was like fuel for the fire but you already had the fire. I think I have like a desire to be witnessed. Like when I'm on when I'm on stage, >> like I'm not a big laugher. Yeah. In general. And then when I'm on stage, I'm I just feel whatever I don't feel depressed. I feel I feel like I could laugh. I feel like I could dance. Yeah. >> If I'm at a wedding and and and everyone's dancing, I'm like I can't do if I'm on stage. >> Yeah. >> I'm alive. And so it's just a a missing piece or just >> Do you judge yourself for it? >> No. Well, I've accepted this as like who I am. You know, it's funny because I do Aderal now and then prescribed by a drug dealer. And I I told my my girlfriend, I said, "When I take Adderall, when I'm like high on speed, I'm like, this is kind of how I feel when I'm on stage." >> Yeah. >> I feel really alive. >> Why don't you take it every day? >> I I I'm going because I want to go to I want to get it really prescribed by a real doctor. The person I saw was like, I could have gotten anything from this person over my Zoom appointment. I want to go to a real doctor to prescribe me the right dosage. It scares me. >> Okay. >> It scares me. It's so It's so good. It's so good. >> Well, the only problem is just getting frying your neurons, I think. >> Well, yeah, that's my fear. >> Yeah, but you know, I the real whatever. I'm sure I tellalth isn't the best, but it's not >> this woman. I said I said, "Hey, is it okay like if I take out her all the day, could I smoke pot that night?" And she was and her cameras, she goes, "Let me Google it." And I was like, "Okay, okay. I'd like to see a doctor." >> Yeah. One of those if it's like if you if it makes you feel better all the time, are you a better person uh in those in those outer windows? >> I think so. >> Yeah, >> I think so. Because I'm I you know, when you're when I'm depressed, it becomes so narcissistic. your, you know, the the insecurity is narcissistic in that it's all about like I suck. >> Yeah. >> God, I [ __ ] suck. >> There's still a spotlight on you. >> Yes. >> It's the blue They put a blue gel on it. >> Yeah. And the desire is to be like, "And now I will no longer suck." Yes. >> And I if I do this, maybe I won't suck anymore. >> Yeah. So you I have a you're I didn't You're prone to depression. >> Uh yeah. I I think it's one of those things where it's like I've never been sometimes I go, "Oh, well, if I haven't been suicidal, you almost negate the level of depression." But yes, I'm >> But I somebody who's never really been suicidal. It's like a you know, it's like a if you feel like you have a, you know, lead vest on yourself all the time. >> Yeah. I could be I could be depressed. >> Yeah. Like that's a fair I but then you wonder how I'm sure you've asked yourself this question. I'm wondering what your answer is. How happy should a person be? And how much of it is just you ever look at your parents and go like well okay so it's apparently the stats are like it's 55 to 60% genetic >> is your like ceiling of what like what they're kind of like is >> and then you can kind of manipulate the rest. But yeah, I'm not someone who's like, "Oh, you got to be happy all the time." It's just like, can you are you occasionally happy? Can you have moments? Can you find happiness with your partner, with your friends? My dad is someone who where like the depression just took over the and and just wouldn't fight it, wouldn't change his behaviors in any way, shape, or form to come out of it. And you're like, I just think you have to like fight your depression at least a little. It's got to be a battle. >> Yeah. It's got to be a battle and sometimes you need to win. >> How do you win? >> Just a moment where you feel >> what are they? What leads up to the wins? Is it is it achievement? Is it is it uh connection? Is it >> achievement and work feel almost like a different thing? And I'm like that's important too. But like for me, the kind of happiness that was so tough to find is like, you know, me and my girlfriend are just talking or chilling and we're we're I feel fun or like my my few closer friends like we're just hanging out and I'm not thinking about how much I suck or work or anything. I'm just like I'm just laughing with these guys right now and I'm not thinking about we're going to die. Who's going to die first? >> Yeah, it's you. >> It's me for sure. The anxiety. My god. [snorts] And and you know, sometimes weed helps that. I think that's why I wish I got high earlier because it was like sometimes it it helps stoke the flames, >> sometimes aderal does, and then and then sometimes you get it on your own. Once in a while. >> If you had to say once in the natural version, the raw dog version, what how often do you think that is? >> More I have more little pockets with like with with my my girlfriend. I think it took a long time to separate achievement. Like I had to be working. I had to be working and that's all I was thinking about. And I think through a lot of trial and error and arguments, there are spaces with the two of us where I'm like, okay, I feel happy just the two of us here in this room and I'm not thinking about some bigger picture thing and it flows. It comes at >> Did achievement silence the lambs, so to speak, a little bit? >> Some sometimes people will say like, "What do you want to achieve in your in your life?" And you know, I could list things, but I'm like, honestly, the happiest is when I'm just on stage doing standup and I'm like, and I have that >> now. I have to figure out how to be happy because things will come, they'll go, but like if you ask me like what do I want to be doing any given moment, I'm like, yeah, it's on stage and I do that. >> Yeah. >> The room could get bigger. >> Sure. >> I don't know if it would even be more fun if bigger. Like I am I am on this is I I have that part of my life. >> Now I have to feel now I have to address some of the other things. When you say address it, what do you So you've got aderall, you've got weed, you've got >> connection sometimes, what do how are you how are you addressing it? >> My my girlfriend grew up religious, but like okay, we'll do Shabbat dinner and Friday night will be this Friday it's it's just having people over and it's it's uh prepping a space and having company and it all all feels foreign. It all feels like a chore to me because I didn't grow up Yeah. >> valuing it. And then somewhere along the Shabbat dinner, you're sitting there, you go like, "Ah, this is nice." >> Yeah. Like, I get Yeah, I get it. I get why people like this. >> That's good. And it's not You don't And it's It's not followed by like, "But man, I could be on stage." >> It's It's chilled. That voice is chilled. And performing so much that sometimes you're like, "Yeah, I feel >> I don't feel this minute." Yeah. >> I've been seeing more Broadway shows recently and I think for a long time I would just go and I'd feel like torture. Like the same thing you'd go to. Like I've never really like strip clubs are not a thing because I go like this is torture. I'm gonna go watch someone and not [laughter] >> will I [ __ ] me and I can't have sex with and then leave. And that's what like going to Broadway felt like is like I'd be like I want to be up there. >> Yeah. >> Why do I want to see other people doing this? And I think through time getting older and just so much [ __ ] stage time that now I go and I'm like I don't need to be on stage. >> Yeah. >> Give me three days off stage and I start itching. Yeah. I know how to like satiate that itch now and trust that it's going to that I'll be able to satiate it later. >> Do you Okay. So, how about uh heterosexuality? You've been you've been you've been firm cuz you seem you you're very theatrical. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You have a touch of the gays, we'll call it. >> Sure. >> More than a touch. >> Uh do you How was that Did you Was that ever a thing? >> No. I mean, I think the opportunity was was there if I wanted to lean into it at any point. >> Yeah. But I'm just saying like you were heteros you just like you always liked women and you were like, "All right." >> Yeah. Yeah. And did you ever try to like be more mask as? >> No, I think I my mom told me when I was a kid, I came home one day and was like, "Mom, I realize I'm different from other people and I'm okay with that." And in in a way, it's it's some version of like there's some things I vibe with guys. Like I could talk about Dragon Ball Z in a way that I think with some straight guys would be like, "Oh yeah, he's a dude." >> And then I never gravitated to sports. I never liked Star Wars. I like dancing. There's pictures of me as a little kid, you know, putting on my mom's heels. I like to go to ballet class and and you know, these things get conflated with with homosexuality in a way that like >> I I had a gay friend >> where I I kind of was talking to him. I was like I was like, why did theater >> why is theater such a haven for for for gay people? And and part of it he said was like because in high school you can't express yourself in a lot of places and in theater you get you get to express something. You you you're feeling different. >> Yeah. It opens the it opens up the band. >> Yeah. And that's what I have. And I do think like certainly in a heteronormative world it becomes so closely associated with with being gay. Oh yeah. Wanting to be wanting to express more emotions is considered gay. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And then singing them that takes it to the next level, >> of course. And dancing. >> I [laughter] mean, forget it. Uh, is there So, it's like when you're performing, even that thing of like I want to be witnessed. >> Do you want to be sexually desired by women? >> Yes. Or is it more like glory? >> Do you know what I mean? Like I want women to like I'm aware that when I'm on stage I would like women to think I'm attractive. Is that a consideration for you? >> It is. But glory is definitely the super the super one. It's it's like when I like listen to music and a lot of times women belting, I'm visualizing a kind of me performing and witnessing it in some like godlike way >> and I'm belting the songs and and I remember in high school when I had like an ex, you know, it was like I'm singing My Chemical Romance and she's watching me and everyone's watching me. It's like that's constructing narratives and the glory not not necessarily and then everyone's going to [ __ ] me. Yeah. Yeah, >> but the narrative of like I am I am expressing so so intensely and everyone's watching that's the fantasy >> like it's a human triumph. >> Yeah, Black Swan is >> not a good movie. Thank you. >> Maybe cliche. >> Thank you for saying it. It's guys, Black Swan is a Lifetime movie about ballet about ballet with some interesting imagery in the second to third act. >> What are Oscar winning movies, but Lifetime movies with amazing >> Go ahead. Same for uh Gone Girl. It's a Lifetime movie and I told Jeff Cronorth, who's the DP, that that's what I thought of it. He's a buddy of mine and we do commercials together. Go ahead. >> When she dies performing, the greatest thing ever. I watch that and I go, "Yeah, [laughter] yeah, I [ __ ] get it. I get it." Amazing. >> I know people like I'm not like you. I'm just not like like Jerry Zold said on this podcast like, "Do you go negative on yourself?" >> Oh, sure. >> What's the tone? >> Well, why are you even doing this? You ever hear this on stage while you're performing? Why are you doing this? You You shouldn't even be on stage. You should just be a writer. You're obviously just a writer who is [snorts] performing these things. >> He thinks he's a writer. I think I'm on stage. There are points where I feel like I'm so I'm envious of the the uh you move on stage like you are dying to be witnessed. >> You want cute jokes, go see a Christian comedian. >> Jews have a dark sense of humor cuz when you're hiding in a closet from the Nazis, you can't be like, "Knock knock." [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, I'm dancing. Like I think I'm like I'm like Yeah. I I can't dance unfortunately, but I do. And I I added enough [ __ ] to convince people to watch me dance. I had to work so hard on these jokes just to get them to watch me prance around. >> It's a long way to go for [laughter] for for Alvin Ay. >> I'm Alvin Ay. I'm a choreographer. I create movement and I'm searching for truth in movement. >> Yeah. >> Um just cut off the middleman. >> Yeah. [snorts] >> Take it. And you've taken you've taken the classes and it just didn't happen for you. so uncordinated. My sister uh one of my sisters is a real is a real dancer. Um she just did um Sabrina Carpenter at uh Coachella. She was one of the dancers there. Oh, great. So, she's like she's doing it. And we would take >> big money in in backup dancing. >> Dancing these dancers >> to make 175 bucks. >> I I it's also one of these things that's one of those things I I She's like do not speak about any of my business because there's no power to be wielded. But it's bad. Dancers are so mistreated. There's no union. >> It really is. >> The things that she has had to put up with and and the no money. There's no big payday. >> There's no big payday. >> The top the most you know for is you're a hot choreographer for a year and a half. >> Yeah. >> And that's you're not going to really make any money on that either. >> And by the way, every dancer's uh retirement plan is to become a choreographer. It's like and it's like Yeah. You can't You're not all going to be able to do it. >> Three of you are. >> Yeah. >> And the three that are going to do it are not good people. >> Yeah. >> I've never met them and I'm like, "Oh, I know. I can see from the outside. I've walked past the place on Melrose and been like, "Oh, yeah. There these people are I feel bad for them cuz they're clearly there for the love of it." But I look at them and I go, "What a cool what a cool life." You go on stage, I try to express myself with my voice. You get to express yourself by [ __ ] moving your whole body. And you're all I mean, dear God, the the these dancers, I'm I'm sure it's just orgies on the road. They're just [ __ ] They're all beautiful. They're all They're all They're all expressing every night. They're they're all just living these thrilling lives. And then, you know, they they're crippled at 32 and it's over. >> Yeah. They tear something and then it's >> But what a life. I mean, but they fly close to the sun boy. I mean, they're gonna get they're gonna get singed, but for that, >> if I look back when I like I think back, I'm like, oo, maybe if I had started dancing when I was four, I could have been cuz it seems so [ __ ] cool to be a >> It's funny. That's another thing where I see it and I just go like I think it's cool. I But then I'm so like capitalist or whatever that I'm just like you gotta make a living. >> Uhhuh. >> Like what are you gonna like when girls girls like dancers and I'm like so what's going to happen when he can't pay the mortgage? >> Sure. >> Like baby dance for them. Go to the go down to the bank and do one of the do the do the thing from the Timberlake tour. >> Uhhuh. >> It's not going to cut it. >> I read FSY's book. It was a book about Fosad. He really It's a It's a good >> That's a good movie. I mean, it's >> Which one? >> Uh the voice, >> all that jazz. >> Yeah. >> That's a good I mean, it's like very nonlinear, but if you're talking about if you want to see cool abstract dance sequences. >> Yeah. >> And like mental >> that's I I'll submit that >> all of FSY's movies are I mean, Lenny's a great movie. >> I only saw it once. >> It's worth seeing again. And then and then uh Cabaret is brilliant. I've never seen any version of camera, but I believe I'd like it. >> It's really good. >> Okay. >> But I think it was surprising was like how long he tried to still maybe be a leading man. He really like even as his choreography career everything was taken off. There was still every once in a while he'd go be lead in a musical like and he didn't have the talent. He didn't have the talent to be a leading guy. >> Good singer but not a or a good dancer, not a not a very good. >> Yeah. Just didn't have the charisma. You go and watch them the at the like the Lincoln Center. Like you go back and watch all the production. >> I did it once. I mean it's it's not fun. You you don't have to. I saw it was the production of the seagull and it was like Philip Simmer Hoffman, Natalie Portman when she was 18, Mel Stre Goodman, Christopher Walk in a crazy production. >> So it's fine, you know. It's it's a it's a pro shot. It's >> the FSY Michael Jackson split screen is like >> insane. >> That's you can't believe it. >> Yeah. You were literally like what you Yeah. If you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll we'll put it up here. >> They met in the book. In the book, they mention how they met and FSY was weirded out by Michael. >> Yeah. >> And he did. He was like, I don't know if I want to work with this guy. >> Did they he wanted to work with him? Michael. >> Yeah. Michael reached out like I'm sure like a pop star like come swing by. Let's talk. [music] >> Yeah. Uh >> it's crazy. >> Yep. A lot of people have those stories. >> Yeah. Yeah. Guys, we all use AI for search. I I refuse to believe when people are like, "I don't do it." I don't believe you. I I think we're all using it for search. We're all We're all using it for something. That's what I'll say is we're all using it for something. And my personal actual favorite is Perplexity. Legitimately, I couldn't believe when they said they wanted to come on as a sponsor. I was like, I'm already this another one of these that I manifested. And they have a new product called Perplexity Computer. Okay, which does longer computations. Here's what I use it for. I go to Perplexity for just basic searches like just had a LOL CoolJ on the pod and and uh it's coming and maybe it's this episode and I was like just looking up stuff about him, what awards he's won, acting. All right, here's what I looked up uh irrespective of LL, which is who was the most referenced person in hiphop history. So, it went on all of the lyric websites and scoured for the most per referenced human being. And by the way, a living person. It couldn't be Superman. It literally said not Superman. Like, it's not doing fictional characters. And I believe I'm going to look it up and I'm going to pause it to make sure, but I believe the most referenced person in hip hop history in the most songs referring to him, Jay-Z. Not Obama, not Muhammad Ali. I would have thought Barack came in at seventh. Mike Tyson was number eight. Most of the top 10 are rappers other than Barack Obama, Mike Tyson, and Kobe Bryant. Bob Marley is number 12. Uh, Michael Jackson is number 16, which I'm surpris It was surprising. Anyway, but it took like 20 minutes for it to do it and it came back and it put it in sheets. I also just did another one. I don't know if it was computer, but I did uh I'm having some hip problems. I don't want to age myself. Long story short, but it gave me some exercises and it put it on one PDF that I've downloaded. It's on my phone and I printed it out. It can just look it can do longer stuff like that and it's it's fun. It's like stuff you're genuinely interested in. Like I like using it for arguments because I'm an argumentative person and I'm I'm an impossible person to live with, but it's fun to debate say your partner, your husband, your wife. It's very fun. It's the future of AI. Instead of being locked into one model, you get to use them all. Basically, instead of figuring out which model is best for each task, Perplexity automatically uses the best model for each part of the project. Like, so you don't have to bounce between. It does it for you. Also, you can connect your Gmail, your Slack. It'll incl It's really inclusive and it does its uh it's what they call a big tent. It's actually really impressive and cool and helpful and we're all using it. Why not use the one that's using them all? You don't have to become an AI expert to get the most out of AI anymore. Perplexity Computer handles that part for you so you can focus on the work instead of managing the tools. Here's the call to action. You knew it was coming. Here it is. For a limited time only, our listeners can try Perplexity Computer for free. Head to pplx.ai/blocks. That's pplx.ai/bloks to try computer today. pplx.ai/bloks to try computer today. Most AI tools are still answering questions while Perplexity is completing full projects. Swear it's good. For real. Guys, uh I don't know if you figured this out, but getting food delivered to your house, it's getting like unreasonable. Like, come on, man. The apps where you're just like, "What? How did this be?" This was This was $21 and now it's $74 and I'm getting all kinds of discounts apparently. I'm done with it. You know what? I'm on Cook Unity. You should be on it, too. Cook Unity is legitimately great. I've explained before, Cook Unity is the first chefled meal delivery service that makes your meals in small batches inside local micro kitchens across the US, not factories. So, every dish arrives with the kind of freshness you'd get at the restaurant itself. Meals from Michelin starred chefs, James Beard winners, and Food Network stars. Go to cookunity.com/nal or use code NAL before checkout for 50% off your first week. All right, here's the thing with CookUnity. You go on the app, they have like dozens of chefs who each seems to me they all make like four or five things, right? You can organize them by cuisine, French, Moroccan, Ethiopian, Mexican, TMEX, I could go on and on. Japanese sush on and on and on. Curries. So, you can go by cuisine, you can go by like gluten-free. I'm vegan, so I get vegan stuff. You can do vegetarian. You can do pescatarian. You can do I only eat red meat. I You can do They have all the diets of the last 20 years. 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Two minutes is actually too hot for a lot of the stuff I've been making. It's fresh. It's good. The ingredients taste fresh. They don't taste like what happened. You know what I mean? Where you go like, "This tastes like China. I feel like China was involved in this." It's not handcrafted. Small kitchen. Beautiful. Here's the call to action. Please pay attention. Taste what happens when real awardwinning chefs make fresh small batch meals just for you. Go to cookunity.comal or enter neal before checkout to get 50% off 50% off your first order. That's 50% off your first order by using code neal or going to cook.com/nal. By the way, I did that for the first week, but when you go and it's full price, it's still re it's still like [snorts] very reasonable. So I this is a fullthroated endorsement from Neil cook.com/nal. [music] So the workhallism you're kind of like you're it sounds like you're figuring it out. >> Yeah. I mean my dad's like my dad's moments like that I'm like oh yeah you're just copying him. He was he's a constant owns 20 a thousand trademarks of different companies. Works non-stop. retired, >> wealthy. >> He was He was He must be bad with money, but he he retired like when he was 45. Again, another part why hanging out with him was so fun. Put it all in the stock market. We had a Ferrari for for like a while. And and then the dot bubble bursting, I think, was devastating. >> Yeah. Uh, and suddenly a metaphor of anything. It was like the Ferrari just slowly going to rust in the garage, never to be driven again. And he just opened up a different kind of company. He used to do oil cleanups in the ocean, made so much money, then they got better about not spilling oil, unfortunately. Right. >> And now he does scrap metal recycling. But I think he's always trying new ventures and wants to open like a purse line and wants to open like re rebr and and invest in weed companies and >> and do you find yourself drifting in that direction or >> I have my different shows. I have my my theater adult show and I want to do this. So I think >> Oh, you do you have like different What do you you have different versions of show? trying like a new show concept separate from standup that's more like theater based so I can do something with those super niche theater jokes. >> Got it. >> Um but we're we're a podcast. It's like I I think I I have that entrepreneurial spirit >> and you just try not to let it grow out of hand where you >> Yeah. Cuz is it like ADD? Is it like a little bit like I want this? Do you lose interest and gain interest or do you keep interest and book your life so tight? It's >> I think it's so easy to just like become distracted by the the busy to-do things because those are easy and and you just have to make sure you're making time to like >> invest and make the thing good in and of itself. >> So I have that for my dad being a workaholic. He told me he's like he's like I'm never I never want to be in a retirement home. I he's he's going to die at work. He's not ever. >> How do you How would Would you want to die at work? You want to witness? Do you want everybody? >> I've had that thought about like dying. >> You're going to stream it, right? You're going to stream your your death. >> Of course. Of course. Something about a big joke, I die. [snorts] The problem is you die on stage, it's usually it's like it's a heart attack and that sucks. But I like the idea of you sit gradually applause. I think I would want my my girlfriend to come out and give me a hug, too. I don't want to just be alone on stage and die. It's like FSY. It's like all that jazz. He was in the hospital bed, but he had an audience, too. Everyone was applauding. His ex-wife was there. His current lover was there. His daughter. Like, that's >> he's a psychotic drug addict. >> Yeah. He was nuts. And you read that book and you go like, you go, "Man, I think to be as great as I fantasize, >> I have to be more self-destructive." Yeah. I have to be okay with I have to be okay with taking Adderall every day. >> Yeah. >> He traveled with a a pillcase. Yeah, >> he was ready to die for his addiction to showbiz. >> You might be too square. >> I agree. >> To really be great. All right, we've got singing struggles, which what does that mean? >> I think it was like in the beginning like singing was like, oh, that's that's the key to glory. Like that's what I'm going to do. And I practiced I wasted a lot of college practicing singing in a awful a heat heated vocal booth alone just doing scales for two hours a day, not going out. Not >> what are scales exactly? >> Just like you play a chord, you go da da da da da da da da da da da da da da and trying to like do the right technique, get a higher note and I >> Do you Okay, that thing that that type of note I don't like it. >> Uhhuh. >> Does that mean I don't like theater? because that sounds like like uh the Dr. Dittle singing or like or music man or like so like like I can't even I can't do it. But what is that? >> It's just a different style like one might say is that is that a healthier approach to singing or it's just has more resonance? >> Yeah. >> And there's musical theater genres of everything now. I mean, older school musical theater, it it, you know, evolved out of the like opera tradition and so it had that but you know there's Jesus Christ Superstars is like da da da da da and you know you play with it. >> I like this. I like Jesus Christ Superstar better. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Like I something about that that doesn't sound like any life I've ever lived. >> Yeah. >> Whereas the And is I guess it's just >> is it my take? Is it calm? >> I think it's what you what you grow up with. I think like I I bet if at the right age you had listened to classical musical theater, it would have imprinted on your brain in a different way. I think so much about music enjoyment like is tied to nostalgia in in such a deep way. >> Sonheim doesn't I don't I'm not that familiar with it, but like I've watched the Sonheim documentary. >> Yeah. I mean the company genius. The company one. Yeah. >> But no one really sings like that. the main guy, Bobby. >> I guess he does a little bit, >> but like Elaine Stretch is on there to be like, "Here's to the ladies who >> Yeah. >> I I really witnessed because because my my girlfriend, she grew up uh kabad, which is like a subset ofism." >> And had no real music in her life, like klesmer music, like very traditional Jewish. >> So you can groom her however you want. >> No, but she doesn't even like it. She doesn't like music. >> Music like she'll listen and she likes here and there. >> I love when people don't like a thing that everyone likes. I I don't like it. >> Even me not as like we first time we did shrooms at the end we were like we didn't listen to any music. We operate differently. Music overwhelms her mind. It's so much noise. And her Spotify rap says you didn't listen to enough music to say anything about you. And to me, it's such a clear indicator of it's like, yeah, you weren't raised with music playing. It doesn't it doesn't connect to some deeper nostalgia thing. >> Yeah. >> And it's that same way where sometimes I'm like, I shouldn't have listened to so much musical theater cuz now there's so few people who can relate with the thing that I love. >> By the way, I went and saw uh Becky Shaw. >> Yeah. >> And it was $220. >> Yeah. I saw who would pay this? >> Some of those lines are so good. >> No, no, no. Uh, I'm not I'm not here to to to uh >> I'm so glad you saw it though. It's >> Yeah. No, I it's it Yes. I have a longer we can I'll have a longer I don't want to get bogged down with it, but my point is >> who can afford this? >> I've been seeing more plays recently and you go, "Oh, everyone here is so old." >> So, well, that was okay. So, I at Becky Shaw, they're holding signs like everywhere. turn your phone off. And then you realize during the play the these people are too old to understand how to turn their phone off. >> Uhhuh. >> How like five phones went off each act. >> Uhhuh. [laughter] >> It's like what you're who are you talking to? These people can barely understand their phone. >> Yeah. >> Cuz they're all at least 70. >> Yeah. >> And wealthy. >> So it's going to affect you. You've done them. You know what's going to happen. It's just going to all I'm sure it was already only appealing to a certain type of person. Now it's like >> well Broadway's I mean Broadway's it's it's a mess. I mean it's not in a good it's not in a healthy place. But like the whole idea is like yeah you should have I see Becky Shaw and I go oh I could bring my little brother here who doesn't love theater and he'll like this. Yeah. He'll go oh [ __ ] Oh I didn't know theater could be edgy. >> You know I mean everyone talks about comedy being edgy so much and I'm like did you see some plays? Yeah. >> You want to go see The Goat by Edward Albby. You'll see as a guy he he's [ __ ] a goat and that's the story. >> Yeah. >> And and it's depressing where where you go like, "Oh, what happened that like younger people aren't being brought into this art form?" Cuz it's cost prohibitive. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it was very expensive. >> You like what? Guys, it's good, but like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Relax. At least that's like a musical. You're like, "Well, at least they sang and there was a band and I guess it was worth this ticket price." If they're just talking, you're like, "Okay, >> the time they're carrying their own [ __ ] off stage." [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I thought some of this money would go to a crew. Um, all right. And what are we singing? I can't What's the What's the OCD? >> So, I think it was like when I I was obsessively practicing singing and not >> fluff your hair. You're not going to like your hair. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, people don't do that enough. >> Um, >> it's worse, but whatever. People [gasps and snorts] practice. People practice. Oh, I I thought I'd get better and I was just like wasn't in therapy. And I was just like obsessively, oh, this note didn't work. I tried it again. I tried it again. I tried it again. I tried it again. Oh, my voice a little tense. I go I would do this 300 times a day. And it was me like checking my voice. Is it still there? Is it still free? >> And what is this for? Meaning, what did you I this it speaks to the dance dream. >> Yeah. >> Where was this headed? It was so that you'd be glorified >> in express. And it's like you It's not It's I think like the D scene, you know, if you look at like a reality TV star, it's like I want to be I want that to be earned. >> It's got to be both. And there's a thing with singing where it's like I want to like rip open my chest, you whale out a high note, do a full narrative and earn the glory. Glory. >> Yes. >> I was so I was trying so hard to do it and my I had limitation. I just didn't have the talent. >> Right. Okay. That's what I'm want to talk about because I find that really interesting is going like, well, [laughter] I think I I'd like to be this, but I'm actually this. >> Uhhuh. >> How did that feel? What was it like? >> It was gradual. It didn't like I I graduated and there were no, you know, no one was going, "Please star in this musical." And so then I joined an acting company and suddenly acting became, "Oh, I can do this." and I wanted to be Daniel D. Lewis and I was working so [ __ ] hard and then I moved to to New York from this acting company and it's like it's I mean it's awful profession just acting. >> Yeah. >> And >> it's not a profession it's a hobby. >> Yeah. that some people make a living from. >> And I, you know, I had came from enough money that like I was being able to pay for casting director workshops and getting a line here, some commercials, >> and then and then I wrote a play and I talked to the audience in the play and suddenly it was like, oh, maybe I'm good at this. I was getting a lot of good feedback about that. >> And then I got in a comedy club and so it went from like singing, okay, I won't be a great singer, but I think I'm going to be a great actor. And then nothing going on. And then standup, it it it clicked. It fit my abilities. I feel like I failed into it for sure. >> Does it feel like that still or does the positive feedback overwhelm? had at her all that time. [laughter] Uh there's times where you go, I just talk on stage. I can't sing. I can't dance. I hopefully I can act enough to be in some things. But there's moments I go, "What?" There's moments I don't value it. And there's moments I think this is the true marrying of intellectual and art together. And I vacasillate between those two things. >> Well, because you you're a you have a good brain. So, I'm wondering like why >> I guess you've just wanted glory so much more than you wanted like any sort of intellectual or in respect for intelligence >> cuz like singing no one's going like this singer is really smart. Like you don't value being told you're smart. >> I think it's cuz I'm like I know the ways that I'm so [ __ ] stupid. >> Yeah. Like ignore that. I can't I you know I think like I'll do like my my girlfriend is we're smart in very different ways but like if we do a cross word together at the same time the way that I couldn't even keep up with her I go I'm an idiot. >> Yeah. >> I I my memory is [ __ ] awful. My retention is awful. I think I can like grapple with concepts and I think interesting perspective >> stuff that's like requires having >> I guess retention. There's moments I feel I feel like, oh, you're faking you're faking your intellect. >> Yeah. But I you're you're when I when I look at you, I go like, you're just knowing you're seeing you your your ability to retain things, be specific about things, be articulate. I'm ADD. I go all over the place. I lose track if I try to write pros. If anyone who's gotten an email from me goes, "Oh my god." two different people at the top and the bottom >> oral communicator. >> Got it. >> The runon sentences are out of control. The parentheticals that I'm using are insane. If they entered me into chat >> so you were like okay. So you were like I'm not >> So when you go on stage you're not expressing ideas necessarily. You're expressing >> I'm expressing ideas too. I think I think ultimately if I had succeeded as an actor or a singer, I would have I would have eventually buted up with like that desire to be like, "Hey, this is all [ __ ] right?" >> Well, that's what it's like. I want to write something or like it it is just greener grass where you're like, you know, I'm which is almost without fail the worst. >> Uhhuh. [laughter] >> When the singer wants to write. >> Yes. >> I mean, whatever. There are some good songwriters that were singers, but but uh >> what's worse when the writer wants to sing. >> I mean, [laughter] what I mean, hold your applause. Um Yeah. But when the writer wants to sing, it's a it's a nightmare. Yeah. >> Um Yeah. No, I'm interested in the idea that if you walk around going like, "Oh, of course I should have been doing this." Or you walk around going like, "I should be singing. Don't you see?" I I still like wish like now I'm like dabbling into like like singing again and I'm you know auditioning as as you do and I I have to pretend that I don't think I'm a bad actor because I want to book some work. It depends on the day ma'am. Sometimes I'm like I'm a comedian. I feel happy about that. I'm like I'm like I did like you know I listened to Carlin growing up. I did love Seinfeld growing up and I'm like this is cool. And then there's other times I see a great performance and I go, "Man, I will never know what it is to fully express and and make >> somebody else's writing." >> I know. I know. >> You're expressing someone else's ideas. That's the thing. It's like >> you're embodying them. [laughter] You're you're >> But it's still a lot. You're not You're embodying them, but that's not You're You can on stage. You can embody your ideas. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, then how cool to see people who do all of them, you know, if I see like >> a Bo Burnham, like I remember like seeing Inside was like a, "Oh, I I should kill myself." Like this is Well, why should I make anything? This is so a full embodiment of these these thoughts and these feelings and so well communicated and musical and singing and >> it was really tough. It's like I think I've gotten better at watching art without immediately feeling self-loathing, >> but it's a battle. [snorts] >> It's a [ __ ] battle to enjoy. >> Great. >> Well, aspire to it then. >> Sure. Sure. There's certain limitations. I I've never >> Why don't you write a funny song? >> Honestly. [snorts] >> Yeah, maybe. Sometimes you go Sometimes you go, "Well, that's >> if you're not a songwriter." Yeah. Yeah. Or it's also like I know I'm not a visual person. I don't know if I could be a director in some capacity someday, but I'm not. I don't think like that. I just have to embrace the things that I'm naturally inclined to do. And standup is that. >> Yeah, you are. You're very good at comics, so like I would say relax. I mean, easy for me to say and maybe the tension is what's helping you be good, but but you can enjoy it. I I feel I'm I'm way happier navigating it than than I used to be. And I think I think some of that's success and some of that's like having a partner who insists on some some regular semblance of life and community and like gradually being like, okay, this is important. And it doesn't it's not going to hurt the the other thing is that neuroticism of like well if I'm I could have been great had I practiced on Friday instead of a Shabbat dinner and it's kind of like no sometimes you take breaks it makes >> at a certain point there's no >> or just or in your head going like no Shabbat dinner is actually going to make my comedy better. This is the better use of my time to improve my ability. >> They're two separate things and it will be neutral. It will have a neutral effect. How about this? How about this? [laughter] >> How about I know >> two different things and one not in competition with the other. >> Don't you ever when you go into like a really awful thing though sometimes going like this this someday I'll I'll >> I'll get a bit out of it. Yeah. Yeah. >> Sometimes that's a comfort there to me but the but Shabbat dinner is not a thing that you're going through. >> Well, you ate for the Shabbat special. [laughter] It's gonna be great. Um, guys, John Marcus, he's he's uh he's got a GoFundMe for clothes for his wardrobe and uh and he's got he'll his ne he's got he's got he's got the full podcast, the [ __ ] SP YouTubes, he's got clips, he's got uh he's got everything. >> Yeah, >> he's he's practicing scales. >> You need them. Please consume him. Give him his glory. >> [music] >> Everybody [singing] wants to have it. Wants to have it. [music] All you had to do is open up your hand [music] when she was 19 years old.