From Broke To $5 Billion | Papa John Reveals EVERYTHING

Better ingredients, better pizza. Papa John's. The quantum field, the physics of manifestation and secret intuitivity where you're out of the three-dimensional world into the quantum field of nobody, no thing, nowhere. Pineal gland is the antenna to the divine. Papa John's Pizza is one of the most successful franchises of all time with over 5,000 locations, more than $2 billion a year in revenue, and an eccentric CEO who came from nothing. Papa John. Although before we go into that, I got to say that if there's anything I've learned about running a business, it's that working is not the same as being productive. So many people spend half of their work day doing things that a software could just do for them. If you want to help restructure your business, but you don't know where to start, just remember these three numbers from our sponsor NetSuite. It's 36,000, 25, and 1. 36,000 because over 36,000 companies have already upgraded to NetSuite and stopped wasting time on things like manual data entry and sifting through scattered data. 25 because NetSuite has spent 25 years helping businesses close their books in days. And one because NetSuite is an all-in-one solution that allows you to manage all of your KPIs or key performance indicators with one efficient system. If your business is scaling, NetSuite will make sure that your busy work does not scale with it. Have a full picture of your business and make better business decisions faster with NetSuite. Right now, download NetSuite's popular KPIs checklist absolutely free at netsuite.com/iced. That's netsuite.com/ iced, iced, i c e d, to get your own KPI checklist for absolutely free. Again, netsuite.com/iced or the link is down below in the description to get started. And now, let's get back to the podcast. Thank you so much for allowing us to come here. This is my first time, by the way, ever in Kentucky. And this property is amazing. It is jaw-dropping. That's pretty special knowing that you're in real estate with 150 million in assets and you like my property, so thank you for that. I love it. I mean, just it it because we don't get this in both Las Vegas or Los Angeles. The lot size, if you get an acre in either one is like tremendous. But how big is this? This is 26 acres. Most people buy an estate and they build houses around the estate because the estates are so big. What I did is I bought three or four houses, tore them down, and then built an estate. So, the estate's name is Valhalla meter. It's Greek for if it is to be, it's up to me. It's accountability. You know, I think when the framers framed the Constitution and set out the principles of our great nation, I think independent critical judgment, liberties, self-accountability, self-respect. I think those were the backbone the individual has to take care of the individual. The state doesn't take care of the individual. So, Valhalla meter, if it is to be, it's up to me. Do you ever leave the property? It seems like everything you need is is here. You have like a golf course in the middle, the fountains as we were walking in. I mean, it's such a presentation. You drive by it and just see the front of the property. It's very like a Yeah, you know, if I had $2 billion, all's I would do is build stuff all day long cuz I just love to build. I mean, I get I just love creating spaces. You know, in this little clubhouse here, it's fun. As Einstein said, the imagination is so much more powerful than the intellect. Try to run everything on intelligence and the the imagination, um, creativity, um, animosity, the bonds we have, the energies, the vibrations, the frequencies. Um, that's, you know, as Einstein said, the the field governs particles. You know, particles and molecules don't govern the field. So, I think creativity and independent critical judgment, um, creating stuff is really a key to being happy, whether you're knitting or you're an orthodontist and you're straightening teeth or you're an engineer and you're building homes. I think the creative aspect of the mind, as Einstein said, the imagination is most important. So, where as I was building, you know, a half a restaurant or a restaurant a day, we had 120,000 employees, we're doing $4 billion a year, we're making $200 million a year in in EBITDA. Um, that was a lot of creativity to do that out of the broom closet. Um, so what I do is I keep myself busy since I don't have a job, just building stuff. So, you know, I've got some work I'm doing out in Utah with some property. I've got some remodels in Naples, Florida. You saw what's going on here at Valhalla meter. So, we always have work in progress to keep the mind active. So, how does that require creativity to be building one restaurant per day? For me, I just see that and I'm like, okay, you have to be highly analytical. You have to think very logically to do something like that. I feel like it To me, I don't see the creativity in it. But how does that require creativity? Well, if it was sheer analytics and it was sheer cause and effect, um, then remember there's 43,000 independent pizzerias. 55% is the big chains, Caesar, Domino's, Papa John's, and Pizza Hut. 5 or 10% is frozen pizza. And the other 35, 40% is the independents, the one-store mom-and-pops. Every single independent pizzeria wants to be Papa John's. So, how we were fortunate enough and lucky enough and, um, fortuitous enough to be the one out of the 43,000 independents that was able to create 5,000 stores, I would argue just on sheer common sense that, you know, the creativity of where you locate the store and where you put the signs and how do you get this permitted? And, uh, for example, you know, right turns when you deliver pizzas are 40% faster than left turns. So, when you locate a store, you always want to be doing right turns out of the store. It's 40% faster. think UPS was the one that, uh, did that with right-hand turns, which I find really interesting. know. I don't know who came up with that. Yeah. But, yeah, the every store, uh, is an individual store. In fact, that's one thing that we did completely different than, um, the chains, uh, was the mindset. But what we did at Papa John's is we looked at ourselves as the largest independent pizzeria in the in the world in the country. We didn't look at it at 5,000 stores doing $4 billion a year. We looked at it one store 5,000 times. So, if that small operator in that small town or that one or two store manager in the in the system wasn't making money, then the overall health of the enterprise couldn't be good. And that was a completely different mindset. The approach is from the element of one store 5,000 times. Have you always been creative and liked building things even as a kid? Like where did that start? I think it started at my grandfather's. He had a farm. Um, we did a lot of lawn work. Um, uh, shrubs, trees, planting flowers. But I can remember my roommate, uh, Brian Tennis and Greg Gable. We had a triple, uh, which is twice as big with one less person, you know, three people. They were golf, um, uh, academic, uh, scholarship golf guys. And so, they were always gone, so I got the triple to myself. But, um, I remember we redid that room. Took all the bunks up to about 6 in to the ceiling, so we had the whole space. And we had a little bit of a the par a bar and, you know, we had a beer tap in there and wine glasses hanging from the ceiling and a couch. So, we had our own nightclub on the top of Studebaker dorm in 1982, '83. So, we've always liked creating stuff and creating spaces. So, yeah, I think that's kind of my nature. But you were also an entrepreneur growing up. Um, what were some of the first businesses that you started? Was that also inspired by, uh, your grandfather? My grandfather always put us to work with odd chores and painting gutters and cutting grass. We had that business. Pump gas on, um, on the Ohio River for $1.50 an hour back in the '70s. I didn't know I was an entrepreneur all along. And I had that knack, but I didn't know I had it until I got thrown in the broom closet. Or not in the broom closet, in the bar. I didn't I didn't really know until Dad said, "Hey, you got to fix this bar." that I had any kind of business sense or entrepreneur sense. I mean, that was, um, Labor Day weekend of '83. I guess it'd been September. And we were 64,000 in bankruptcy and, um, you know, within a week I felt like I could fix that business. So, if I get the storyline correct, your father was running a bar. It got, like you said, 60 or so thousand dollars in debt. At what point did you know that you could turn that business around and make it profitable, bring it out of debt? Was there some aha moment? This is really odd cuz remember, this is '83, so I'm 21. Uh, first Papa John's is '84. I'm 22. Dad thought he was 10, 15 grand in the hole. So, within two or three weeks, I said, "Dad, it's not 10 or 15, it's more like 20 or 25." Ended up being 64,000. And he goes, "Well," you know, he was the youngest city judge in the state of Indiana's history, um, prosecuting attorney for eight years, a turn a lawyer for what, 25, 30 years in Jeffersonville. So, he, uh, had a good reputation in the community and he was getting ready to take all these people around him that were friends down with him. And he said, "Well, just limit the losses and, um, just do what you can do." Um, and I said, "No, Dad, I think I can fix this." Now, why I thought, um, at 21, never running a business, that two weeks, three weeks in that I could pay off $25,000 in past debts, I don't know. Fast forward to the broom closet. We, um, we had a lot of success in the broom closet. We were doing over 3,000 a week. And all of a sudden, um, we had to build a store to hold the volume. So, we opened a store adjacent to Nick's Lounge. And the volume goes from 3,000 to 9,500 in in two weeks. And I'm like, "Wow, if you put a sign on the front door, it really helps business." Cuz remember at the time we're doing 3,000 in pizza, we're doing uh 8,000 a week in 50 cent beers, and we're doing 1,000 a week in pool tables. So, we're knocking down 140 grand a year in 1984 selling 50 cent beers and $5 pizzas and 50 cent game of pool. So, you know, I'm I'm a high-strung mammal. Um and I'm excited about what we're doing. So, I go down to the Domino's and the manager at Domino's, I said, "What are you doing in a week?" Cuz we're doing 6,000 a week, 6,500. And I just looked at the guy and I go, "I'm going to kick your ass in the whole world." I don't know why. I just thought if you can beat them in Jeffersonville, Indiana, why can't you beat them in the whole whole world? I thought like that. And I think it was that naivety that, you know, just we're going to win. We're going to get this done. I don't know if you call it confidence. I don't know if you call it momentum, but the thought of losing just wasn't an option. It just didn't like we weren't going to make the broom closet work. It wasn't like we weren't going to make Papa John's work. It wasn't going to like we were going to make Mick's Lounge work. It was just we're going to make it work. And we did. So, when you said that to the person at Domino's, was that like the owner, maybe the franchisee, or was that just like the cashier that's just like the owner? it was No, it was a man it was I don't know I remember the guy. He was a manager of the store. It was the manager. So, you just straight up as a 21-year-old just like, "Hey, we're going to kick your ass." Like Yeah. Where did you get that confidence came from? I just believed that if you took care of your people, we've always had a good team. I mean and you made the best pizza. Remember the first the broom closet didn't have a sign on the front door. I just thought if you had the best pizza, you win. I didn't understand marketing. I had no idea that you you know, you market it. Hell, the product's, you know. So, we had two fundamental principles. Um you know, take care of our employees, our team. Uh that's Herb Kelleher at Southwest nuts. That book is employees first, customers second. We've learned over the years that guest experience cannot exceed the employee experience. So, if you got employees that are miserable, you're going to have guests that are unhappy. So, we knew all along that we had to take care of our people. Last year I was there in 16 17, I think the bonuses for the employees was over 30 35 million dollars. So, the employees felt like it was their company. You know, it was the best place to work in Kentucky for 5 straight years, and they're making bonuses. We promoted from within, so everybody's getting a promotion. You know, when you build 2 300 stores a year, you have all kind of opportunities for growth internally. So, I don't know how many millionaires there were at Papa John's, but I'd say it's thousands. Thousands of millionaires. Millions of millionaires. Well, we started the company with $1,600. And when I got out of it, uh the market cap was 3 4, whatever 80 bucks a share is at you know, 3 3 billion 3 and 1/2 billion. And where did you get the money to start up that business? I didn't have the money. Um I went down to Tony Manley at Food Equipment Supply, and he loaned me the $1,600 worth of used restaurant equipment. By this time with the bar, I'd built a good rapport, a good reputation, and good credibility with Tony, and he said, "Well, just pay me when you can pay me." So, obviously he must have thought it was going to work, too. But before we go into that, we got to thank our sponsor HelloFresh, because as I'm sure you guys know, time is money, and I cannot stand wasting my time going to the grocery store, buying ingredients, waiting in line, driving back. It's a waste of time. Well, today's sponsor HelloFresh takes care of all of your meal planning and delivers pre-portioned ingredients right to your doorstep. HelloFresh is also more than 25% cheaper than takeout, and it saves you time and money in grocery shopping. HelloFresh even offers quick and easy options for breakfast and lunches, too. In just 15 minutes, you'll have a wholesome homemade meal ready to enjoy. And I also have to say, I really enjoy all the variety. So, my housemate's a vegetarian, and the recipe that we made from HelloFresh came with both a meat-free option and a meat option, so everyone was happy. And that was just one of over 40 different meal options. Plus, if you need snacks or sides, just head over to HelloFresh Market and take your pick from over 100 add-on items. So, why wait? Go to hellofresh.com and use the code 50ICH at checkout to get free shipping and 50% off. That's hellofresh.com code 50ICH to get free shipping and 50% off. Or use the link down below in the description to try it out today. And now with that said, let's get to the podcast. What was it about pizza for you that was so special? Cuz I've never seen someone so passionate about I'm still the the product like that. I'm still passionate. Yeah. Um we made pizzas when I was 15 at Rocky's. Um and I fell in love with pizza. Um and I drove a forklift uh at the day. Uh I also welded barges during the day at Jeffboat, but um uh made pizzas at night at Rocky's, and a case of beer um from Miller Miller Lite cost us about $9, and we were selling it for 940. Um at Rocky's, we're selling pizza for nine bucks, and the food cost was $3. So, I knew early on that I wanted a higher margin business than beer sales. I wanted pizza. And I was washing dishes at Rocky's, and I hated washing dishes. And so, you weren't allowed to make pizzas unless you were a Fondriest, Joe John, or Frank Fondriest. So, they got a good write-up in the scene. The thing took off. And um sure enough, I got promoted from washing dishes to making pizzas, and that's when I knew that's what I wanted to do. So, how did you as a dishwasher get promoted when you had to be a Fondriest? Like did you did you prove to them that like, "Hey guys, I'm in this for the to the to win it basically. Like I can make good pizzas, trust me." Yeah, I was I was an exceptional employee. I was always a dope. I was just at the right place at the right time. right time. I was lucky. Change your last name to Fondriest. Yeah. Yeah. Also, when you were running the the first ever pizza shop out of the broom closet, was that $9,000 a week that was revenue, correct? sales. That was total sales. Yeah, I remember in the broom closet in the bar, this is early on, my brother and I were on a Tuesday night did $200 in sales. And we were jumping up and down. We thought "Wow, we're rich." $200 a day in a broom closet. We really thought we had that kind of hey, respect for a dollar. Um frugality. Uh but we just thought, "My gosh, you know, how can you ever spend $200 with no overhead?" So, we were that was And so, when we were doing 3,000 a week, we thought I mean, 3,000 a week out of a room about the size of this bar, I mean, you're getting with it. And then we just moved it next door, literally 40 feet, and the sales went from three to nine. But what was the profit on that $9,000 a week? That's interesting, too. When we first started in the bar, we were doing Mickburger and a beer uh for a dollar. And we were destroying all the little small Denny's and Jerry's and uh sandwich shops around the bar. So, the owner of Jerry's comes over, Charlie Warren, says, "You know, what are you doing?" I said, "I'm doing um First of all, I said I can't talk to you. We're too busy." I said, "Come back in an hour." So, he came back in an hour. We just destroyed their lunch business with a Mickburger and a beer for a dollar. And he said, "What are you doing?" And you know, I said He goes, "What's your food cost?" I said, "What do you mean?" Cuz at the college, they don't teach you food cost. I had no idea what he was talking about. And we added it up. We had uh $1.20 in the the beer and the Mickburger. Cuz it was a double burger double patty burger with you know, extra cheese and tomato. So, um we had no idea that we were losing money on every sale. We just know we were selling that. Um so, by the first store, uh our first employee who's still with us today, Denise Robinson, and her husband. He was a driver. She was a bartender. And she was also really good with accounting. So, after that lesson on Mickburger, we started um doing uh analysis every week on what's um what's the food cost, what's the labor cost. And back in those days, um we were running 40% 38 to 42% food. I mean, today, you know, a bad month, it's 30%. So, we didn't have the buying power. We didn't measure the cups. We did a lot of things wrong. Um but we were still making money, because remember we built the stores ourselves. We were running them ourselves. We were free labor. So, we were still making money, but I'd say 9,000 a week, we were definitely making 10 15%. Where do you think you got your work ethic from? That was the beautiful thing about growing up is my dad's side um was Democrat, extremely liberal. Um and he had nine businesses, and they all failed. The other side was the Ackerson side, which was very conservative. Um and they save their money, very frugal. 7-day a work. 10 to the shop. So, it was fascinating to watch one guy really uh who was actually Dad was probably the smartest one of all of us. He just wasn't principle oriented um with regards to work ethic. Um you know, uh handling the finances. I mean, he had nine bankrupted businesses. My grandfather had three, and all three were successful. So, I was really blessed from a political side to watch cause and effect on a liberal democratic perspective. And watch the cause and effect on a conservative perspective. Not only on politics, but in business. And in life. You know, I mean, my dad loved the racetrack. You know, he loved to live for the moment. Didn't mind running up the credit card, running up the debt, kind of like what we're doing today with our government. And you know, and always he enjoyed life. He had a good time. Uh problem is there are are consequences. Arithmetic is not an opinion. And I got to watch my grandfather who was a multimillionaire by the time he died. He was on the Westin in Louisville, but he um had a degree in accounting and uh law. Um and just his reputation, his credibility. He used to say we go everywhere. We go to um um the farm store, we go to the the grain store, the seed store. And he would always say, um, I said, "Pappaw, you got money?" And he said, "I don't need money, my credit's good." And I never understood that. You know, I'm 6, 8, 7 years old and the later in life I understood how important it was. My dad had bad credit, couldn't get a loan at the bank, and my grandfather my mom had impeccable. Now, is that a slam on one of the other? It's just I'm just telling you what happened and I'm telling you the cause and effect of that kind of, um, ideology um, and and uh outcomes on behavior. Um, your your personality is what you think, uh, how you feel, and how you act. And so, that's your personality. And so, to watch the two completely different personalities and to be able to kind of go back and forth. I can remember in college I was I I didn't know who was right. I mean, this is '80s, this is Reagan. And of course Ball State was very liberal college and I was torn. Well, you know, this is Pappaw's and my mom and the Akersons side and college is kind of my dad's side. It was like, you know, and I really struggled um, in '80, '81 on which way is the best way to go. And I can only imagine the kids in this day and age where they're kind of asking the same question and they're they're getting indoctrinated with, um, you know, bad reality. Um, the the greatest mechanism for poverty to get rid of rid of poverty is, um, the capital market. You know, entrepreneurship, that's the the greatest invention of man is capitalism. Just is. And, you know, um, capitalism only works if, um, you know, the entrepreneur thrives. Now, Adam Smith called it the invisible hand. I I disagree with Smith on this in the sense that if you take an employee that's going to wash the dishes in the night or clean the sidewalk off or make the pizza. Okay, they do a good job or they do a not so good job versus the owner does the same job he's got a different mindset. You know, I mean, that dish is going to be spotless, that pizza is going to be a good pizza, that sidewalk I mean, owner when, you know, you have property rights and it's your shop, you're going to have a whole different perspective, a whole different energy. And that's all entrepreneurship. Yeah, that's all labor workforce is is energy. You're going to hold have a whole different magnitude of uh, energy and labor that goes into your skill. That's not invisible. That's John Snodder saying, "I want out of the bar, I want out of the broom closet, I want out of Jeffersonville, Indiana, and I want to live in the Garden of Eden." If there's nine businesses that failed in hindsight from your perspective today, why do you think they failed? Is it because he overspent? Yeah. Is it bad management? Yeah. Again, um you know, we'll take the Frontier Lounge, which is actually 100 yards from Mix Lounge. Um, there's a Rally's hamburger there today, but the Frontier Lounge they bought that. I think my grandfather loaned him money, the bank loaned him money, and, you know, next day at lunch they go in he my dad would always get he would say, "Give me a chocolate on wheels." Which is bourbon and coke in a Styrofoam cup. Give me a chocolate on wheels. So, he'd go in, take two, three hundred dollars out of the cash register, get a chocolate, go to the race track and blow it. I mean, that's just the way that was just How do you think that's so different though from your grandfather? Because it seems like usually these things are are seen and observed by, you know, the kids. They see the work ethic and why do you think he was so much different? You know, I mean, first of all, it's two sides of the family, Akerson and so, you know, why are they different? I look at my grandparents on my dad's side. Um, they were Irish and German, Snodder and O'Patrick. My mom and Poy, who were my dad's parents, were the most frugal, down-to-earth I mean, my grandfather, um he worked two jobs, he was, um electrician and then he would do night work. Um My grandmother was a stay-at-home mother that we had in Sunday dinner with after church every Sunday. Um, how my dad came out of that environment the way he was, I I'd never made sense of that. Um, again, he had a great life. He only lived to be 51. But, I mean, he had more fun in 51 years than the rest of us put together are going to have in 81 years. I mean, it's not it's not a slam. I mean um, the cause and effect and it did a lot of damage to the the family when he didn't pay my grandfather back and he would skip town and stuff. But, you know, when you you you know, when it's your dad, you love your dad no matter what you kind of go, "Okay, what can I take out of this that's most beneficial?" And that was probably just to enjoy life and, you know to love life and and to, you know, be thankful and grateful for all the blessings and to be in this country. I think that's what my dad, you know, did teach. Another thing my dad taught me was he's not he wasn't afraid to fail. You go, "Where did that come from?" I guess my old man. I guess my dad I went, "Okay, if he can behave like that and still almost be successful cuz he was, you know, he was making 100 grand a year in 1970 practicing law. So, he knew he always made good money, he just couldn't handle it. Um but, um, you know, I learned to take risk. I learned that you want to be in business for yourself and learned that, you know, you want to have a good time, but not at the expense of, you know, your finances and your physical health. It's interesting how impartial you are about the different takeaways that you got from your father's way and your grandfather's and your mother's side of the family. Uh, do you think the pros about having an elevated sense of fun and enjoyment on your dad's side and this kind of carefree nature was in essence a better way to live because you said he loved all 51 years of his life rather than potentially the the other side which is a little bit more of a scarcity mindset rather than a mindset of abundance? Living for the moment has consequences. And I think, um, the greatest thing about our country is, you know, your life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And and liberty is about freedoms. The the the word liberty comes from the French where, you know, the government leave me the hell alone. You know, right now they want to your stove, dishwasher. I think now the washing machine's up. I mean, they want to control everything we're doing. I mean, that's the anti-American. You know, so I think each individual in this great country has the the responsibility to be an independent critical thinker to, um show mutual respect. You can't have mutual respect if you don't have self-respect. Can't have self-respect if you don't have personal integrity. So, I think it's up to each person, um, to decide how they want to live their life. If you do something to hurt yourself, um that's one thing. If you do things to hurt yourself and or others, that's a whole different mindset. So, um I think as far as living for the moment and doing self, um you know, self-destruction, that's an individual's decision, you know, because there is there's consequences, cause and effect. I think anything you do that hurts other people, that's why I'm so down on this administration is cuz what they're doing to your your demographics, your age um, and what they're doing to the people that wake up and make this country great is just catastrophic. The border, fentanyl, um, the child trafficking, the the sound of freedom that just came out. We've been studying that for over over a year, year and a half. You've got um, 32 trillion in debt and you all that's going to do is diminish your all's income the next 5, 10, 20, 30 years because, um, when you run deficits you print money and you print money it's a hidden cruel hidden tax on uh, the taxpayer in future years. So, all these things with regulation um, high taxes uh, inflation, leaving 80 billion dollars of equipment in Afghanistan and letting 13 servicemen get murdered um, uh, you know, it just it goes on and on. And when you're hurting the very people that, you know, the middle class is the heart uh, beat and the backbone of this country. Without a strong middle class you have a two-tiered society and I don't like a two-tiered society because you either have rich or poor and sooner or later the poor folks get tired of seeing how the rich folks live and you have a revolt. And a revolt wouldn't be good at all for a guy like me. Um, when I was in Ireland we were going to go to UK. We had a detour to Ireland cuz an inch of snow. You you United Kingdom handles snow like Atlanta, Georgia. So, we stopped in Ireland and, um, I said, "Where we're going to get a hotel?" So, we found this castle to get this hotel it would turn into a hotel, it was an old castle. It was hot. I mean, it was cool. I mean, bowling alley, pub, golf course. It was pretty cool for, you know, just last minute. So, next day I'm checking out and I look at the lady and she's part owner of the business. I said, "This is pretty cool. Why come there aren't more castles turned into hotels?" And she said, "Well um, cuz the owner was a good landlord." I said, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Well, he made sure that the farmers, the peasant farmers, and the people that did work had profit sharing. He took care of them." And I said, "Really?" And they what they do with the other castles? They said, "Well, the landlord screwed the peasants, screwed the the farmers, screwed the people that do the heavy lifting and they burned them down. And so back to people and product at Papa John's, if you don't take care of the people doing the heavy lifting, you don't take care of the people who are really doing the work, they're going to burn your castle down. And that's where we're at in the country. Um and I think when you get away from the framers ideology and principles, I mean out of the say the 45 or 50 um uh founders of our Constitution, 37 were were merchants, were businessmen and women. So I mean, they understood free markets. They understood human nature. They understood common sense. Human nature both good and bad. Um and uh as a result, our country's been able to thrive for 230 years, but I I do think we're pushing our luck a little bit here. Again again, arithmetic's not an opinion. We're spending money today that's going to cost you guys and your kids down the road. And just, you know, I mean I don't say that to be slamming, but I mean to think math is an opinion and don't think there's a cause and effect on, you know, 16% inflation in 2 years that's going to going to compound and that you, you know, you spend 32 trillion and, you know, just did the COVID thing. They're I think they're missing a trillion dollars or 600 billion. I mean, Oh yeah, I mean, 600 billion is over 600 meas. I mean, gone. Out, you know, throw it out. Just burn it. That's just one aspect of it. So um but the framers did a fantastic job. Um they knew a cast of characters like we have today. Where it's just one lie after another from these politicians. I mean, they're all the deep swamp, you know, both sides are guilty. But they knew that with watching all the kings, dictators and throughout history, they knew that that in politics, stinkers rise to the top. And how they figured out a system to keep the checks and balances. I mean, they're almost now at the point where they've got to throw away a decision on the Supreme Court. I mean, they've actually got to disregard the Constitution in totality um to get their way. But how the framers put in the checks and balances to kind of keep this thing together um is pretty amazing. I mean, everybody thinks we're in a democracy. We're not a democracy. We're democracy. We're in a constitutional republic. You get elected through voting, then then you make an oath to the Constitution. And I'll give you an exhibit A of how corrupt it is. It's very clear in the Constitution that Congress controls the purse strings. I mean, the Congress controls the money. And yet we have a president that just wanted to give away 500 billion dollars. Whether it's good cause or bad cause, I don't want to debate that. But he wanted to circumvent Congress. There's nine people in the Supreme Court. Plain as day. Congress controls the purse strings. President overrides it. Three Supreme Court justices who swore to the Constitution, swore to it. It's in plain writing, violated the Constitution. That's the story here. You got three justices that are supposed to be made an oath, supposed to be constitutional lawyers, and yet defied reality. It's crazy. When you first started Papa John's, how did you ensure that you treated your employees fairly, correctly, and where did you learn how to do that? If you're not honest and you're playing games, you're vulnerable. I don't want to be vulnerable. You know, I don't want to make mistakes. Make a mistake, you take the hit, you know, and then you get to move on. Being honest is an is a selfish act. I think it's in my best interest to be honest. I don't want to be vulnerable because you can say, "Well, you said this and, you know, you you didn't said this this one." And I don't I don't want to be I don't want to be caught in that situation cuz even if you're trying to play it totally straight and totally clean, you're still going to have things that are, you know, opaque or nebulous that you've got to either reconcile or take the hit or, you know, substantiate. But what happens when you don't treat a good employee good? They go somewhere else. And so it's again, it's in my best interest to make sure we take care of the good employees and then try to get the employees that are not so good up to, you know, our level of of functioning and performance. Who was the first person you hired? Denise Robinson. Seven bucks a day. Two bucks two two bucks an hour for 3 and 1/2 hours. And what was she doing for you? She was she was waitress, bartender, dishwasher, and accountant. She's still with me today. No way. Yeah. How did you first meet her? Well, this is back to my dad. Um we'll go for This is almost go full circle one story. We take over, we're doing a couple grand a week. Then we start the big burger thing and then we're doing the plate lunches and all of a sudden we're doing five, six a week headed to seven or eight. Pool tables were doing 200 a week and now they're doing a thousand. And I'm like, "Well, this is on the road, so we need help." So um my dad interviews Denise Robinson. And um he hires her. And um Denise is, you know, she's attractive, she's fit, hard worker, um you know, great disposition, um great composure. I said, "That's great." He said, "There's only one problem." And I said, "What's that?" I called him champ. He goes, "She can't cook." Well, you know, I'm like, "You hired a cook that can't cook? Taking somebody Are you crazy?" I said, and I was hot. I was like, "I'm trying to get your ass out of bankruptcy. We don't have the seven bucks and you hire a cook who's never cooked." He goes, "I'm going to train her." I said, "That's that's that's BS. I don't, you know." He goes, "She's got a great attitude. And plus she's got a nice ass." And I went, "You did what? You hired a cook that can't cook cuz she's got a nice butt and a great attitude?" And she worked out to be the best employee of all of them. And so I think the lesson from dad there was, you know, hire for attitude, train for aptitude. But, you know, he just was able to He would do things like that that my logical mind would say, "You can't hire a cook." Cuz I didn't know how to cook, you know, anything but pizza. Um but he um he made the best hire of any hire we've ever had. As far as the I got her husband, too. Her husband was a delivery driver for us forever. As far as cooking the pizza, how did you come up with the perfect recipe and how did you understand what the customer would want? Okay, at Rocky's we cooked out of a a Blodgett oven. It's kind of a cheap machine. It's kind of it's tin and, you know, the deck on it's about this thick. And then at Greek's Pizzeria, we cooked out of Baker's Pride 601, which is a, you know, it's a 1,200 lb oven. It's the deck on it's this thick. Takes forever to get hot, but I mean, it's a real machine. And then like Gatti's was cooking out of uh impingers, Lincoln impingers. They were conveyor oven. They weren't too good. So I learned on early on that a oven is has to be the piece of equipment you get right. And so I mean, those those deck ovens were over 2,000 lbs. But I didn't like the Blodgett cook at Rocky's. It It didn't have enough horsepower that when you got busy, you put the pizza in there and uh wouldn't get cooked. A Baker's Pride he never ran out of horsepower. And then we switched to Middleby Marshall conveyor ovens. That was pretty dispendious because in the early days you get the burned out of you because, you know, you're just busy going over pizzas. The pizza in the back would always cook faster than the pizza in the front cuz it was in the back, it's hotter. So the boxes were never in the right order. A conveyor oven, first pizza in the first pizza out. So that was a really big deal and that would have been '87, '88 when George Marshall from Middleby came in and said, "Listen, I'll I'll put a a Middleby Marshall oven in your store and you don't have to pay me for it until you decide you want it." I'm like, "It's like $13,000, $12,000 oven." I said, "If it's free, I'll try it." And we used to do a thousand dollars in a deck and you could do a thousand dollars an hour in a Middleby and not even sweat it. It really was quite the um quite the advancement and innovation and efficiency and just not getting burned all the time. But then what about picking ingredients and the cheeses and the the breads and the pepperonis? How did you decide what the right ratio was and now and how to perfect that? Most people have rocks for taste buds. So they just want something cheap and filling. Um so I think a half the half the population has a good taster on them. So I feel like both sides of the family were pretty uh discreet when it came to food quality and taste. Um the first thing we did is we Do we like it? Did I like it? You know, something I could be proud of. And without exception, ingredients um the better ingredients that taste better always cost more money. The only thing slightly different in that is cheese. We'll talk about cheese here in a second. But that's the only ingredient that whether it's an olive um or sausage um pizza sauce, flour, I mean, you you get what you pay for. And um the uh farmer friend out in Modesto who packs my sauce used to tell the Snappy Dog Food uh story. The the CEO, chairman of the board of Snappy got in front of all the employees, "Who's the best? Who's the best? Snappy, Snappy, Snappy, Snappy Dog Food. Who's number one? Snappy, Snappy, Snappy. Who's got the best quality? Snappy Dog Food." Everybody's going nuts. And then he looks at the audience and says, "How come our sales are down 20%?" And a new employee he up in the back and says, "Cuz the dogs won't eat it." And the the the point of that story is, you know, you know, do they come back? Do the consumers come back? You know, do the dogs eat it? So, how did you go from scaling outside of that broom closet into your first chain or franchise into the next one and the next one? Because that sounds incredibly challenging, especially for someone that's in their early 20s to be able to do something like that. Yeah, we'll we'll start at um 40,000 ft uh in a macro and then move down to store one. I thought the bigger you got, the easier it would get. 5,000 was harder than four. Four was harder than three, and three was harder than two, and two was harder than 1,000. I didn't I thought once you're paying people a million bucks a year, some cases 2 million a year, um CEO the last year I was there made 6 million. When you're paying people that kind of money, it should get easier, and it just didn't. But, by far, the first two or three are the hardest. Store two was five times harder than store one. And store three was 10 times harder than store one and two. And store 10 was twice as easy as three. It got easier at 10, but that's only point where it really got a little bit easier. Because we could finally put in some kind of hierarchy, some kind of administrative support, so we weren't doing everything. Do you ever felt that people took you less seriously because of your age and being young? And how did you overcome that? I still have that problem today. Um the um that was the blessing because pizza Domino's should never let me get to two stores to store 2,000. They they laughed at us. They poked fun on at us. They, you know, ridiculed us. Um but they, once we got to 2,000, we could do national advertising. And so we had them. But they should have never let me get past 300 stores. And they could have stopped that. Now, what are some of the things your competition would do to slow you down? I've heard so many stories about like, "Yeah, our competition would would do this, and they tried to undercut us here." And like, have you ever dealt with something like that? Well, yeah. I mean, once they realized it was too late in '97, '98, they sued me. Take down better ingredients, better pizza. That went all the way to the Supreme Court. So, yeah, I mean, they had lawyers. They tried to steal all our people. They do $3 pizzas. We'd open a store and they'd give pizza away to I mean, yeah, they'd do everything possibly imagine, but it was too late cuz we were over we were already past 2,000. We We had momentum. What was the What was the claim that they that they said against better pizza is better ingredients? Was that just like, "You can't say that because that implies that our ingredients are inferior"? And they tried to sue for that? Um well, we were we were poking them pretty bad. At the time, it's not so much today, but at the time we did we did use better ingredients and fresh pack sauce and less water in the cheese and higher protein in the flour, higher gluten content. We We had all We were We were walking and talking better ingredients. The problem is is that's subjective. In other words, you can't prove that a um uh peach pie in the frozen section of the grocery is not as good as the grandmother makes. In other words, it's common sense the grandmother makes a better peach cobbler than frozen peach cobbler in the in the supermarket. But you can't You can't prove that. So, better ingredients, better pizza, while in my mind, we paid more, better for you, it was more authentic, I not a bunch of additives, chemicals. And there's no Common sense says, "Well, it is better." But legally, it's a subjective question. So, that was how they they, you know, hung their hat on that. And um they won in Texas, but that's where Pizza was located. They won in Texas. And then we had to take it down. We appealed to the fifth circuit. They said, "This is crazy. You can't You know, everybody says better and everybody, you know, makes a claim." And we won that. Pizza Hut appealed it and then went to Supreme Court, and the Supreme Court held up the decision of the fifth circuit. Otherwise, we would have had to taken that slogan down. And when you were scaling from that first broom closet into the next 10, were you taking any profit for yourself or were you reinvesting all of the revenue generated from these businesses to just continue scaling? Well, when I first started at the bar uh Labor Day weekend of '83, I was just paying They paid me 200 bucks a week. That was my pay. And I remember going into uh '84, and I had like 20 checks, you know. Um I had Well, you got September, October, November, December. So, you got 16 to 20 checks, 18 checks that I could In other words, I I couldn't cash the checks cuz we were overdrawn. We always made decent money, but we didn't make We didn't really start making money till 19 '90. But I was still spending it faster than we could make it. And we finally got a loan for a million dollars. A loan? A loan. They finally loaned it. And then we went through the million dollars so quick cuz I was buying ovens. I was building stores, awnings, mixers. In '92, I got turned down for 3 million. And I always wondered where the threshold was. How can I make more money than I'm spending? Mhm. I never, you know, I thought it would be store 50, store 100. And then we went public June of '93 with 232 stores. And we were getting close, but even at 232, I still could spend more money building stores and growing the stores we had than we were making. Uh we went public and raised 25 million dollars. And that was the end of the need of capital. Once we went public, we no longer needed capital. So, why why did you decide to continue reinvesting and building more stores rather than taking some profits for yourself? I lost my I lost the partnership on that. Uh '87, '88, I had two partners that said, "We're making At the time making 700,000 a year, and we're 200,000 overdrawn." So, they didn't like that program. They actually thought I was probably taking money, which you know, was not the case. They didn't understand the difference between a P&L and cash flow. You can have a positive P&L, but if you, you know, if you're buying equipment, you know, you're you're putting out capital for, you know, signs and awnings and ovens and building stores, you can you can go through that. So, they didn't understand that. So, that was the the end of that partnership. But you wanted to continue reinvesting and growing the business. You didn't care necessarily about getting some money at the end of the month to go spend on certain things. That never crossed my mind. That was a That was a point of contention. And, you know, we had to write a pretty good-sized check back in the late '80s. Um but that was a That was a good divorce uh in the sense that when you have two different mindsets, we just talked about that with entrepreneurship at the top of the administration. If you don't If you're not really pro-entrepreneur, pro-small business, they're going to feel that. Um if you have one group of partners that don't want to grow, they want to be on their boats and drive fancy cars, and another another one of guy that wants to live in, you know, the basement of the house and pour all the money back in so someday he doesn't have to work. I think those two mindsets are both justifiable. Not one's right or wrong. It's just this, you probably not going to get 5,000 stores. And this you are, but this this is going to take a lot longer and be a lot more painful. So, I think it was a good It was a good divorce. Did it make you nervous though seeing your father and your grandfather and not feel like I should take some of it off the table? Well, I can at least secure my future now and then reinvest afterwards. No, and until '93 where um we went public. And remember, in '92, I couldn't get 3 million dollars to build the company. And then all of a sudden in one day, the company's worth over 150 million dollars. So, as soon as we went public, you know, I owned 90% of the company. So, I went where I didn't have five grand to go on vacation or buy new, you know, I drove pickup trucks. So, we didn't We didn't have fancy cars. We didn't, you know, we didn't have, you know, nice homes at the time to rich beyond my expectations. And when that happens, 31. By the way, they don't have books out there when you make 100 million dollars out of a broom closet when you're 31 years old. So, you're saying you didn't have $5,000 to go on vacation, and then as soon as you went public, you got 100 million dollars overnight, effectively. was worth over 150 million, which I owned like 80, 90%. I owned 88 before we went public. I think I owned I'm going to say 78, but we'll pick a number. You know, 70. It's going to be more than 70. And so, Anything change in your mindset where you're like, "Okay, I couldn't go on vacation. Now I'm extremely wealthy." Like not even wealthy, but like ultra-wealthy. It didn't hit me how much money that was until I retired um back in '17, '18. 2000. I didn't realize It's one thing to create um your net worth of, let's you know, 500 or 800 or a billion. Let's just pick a number 200 million. It's a safe number. It's one thing to build your net worth 200 million. It's another to have 200 million in the bank and not and know how to invest it. If you know, if I was The most important word in the English language is focus. Um and so the next thing I do, um I'll be 100% behind that. I just haven't said what what I wanted to do yet cuz it doesn't meet my four criteria, which we'll talk about if you all like. But um the it it's taken me probably three years. I didn't make I haven't made any mistakes with investments. Um and that's the key, you know, compounded annual interest as Einstein said is the most powerful thing in the universe. So, we haven't had any years where we had some flat years, you know, but it's it's okay to be flat. You just don't want to be negative 10 or 15. Those are the years it's called a volatility tax. We lived that in 2000 where the market was 29 six, let's say 30 and it went down to 19 six, let's say 20. 30 to 20 is a third. But to go with 20 back to 30 is 50. So, you got for every third you lose, you got to have 50. So, that's why you have to avoid those. So, we haven't had any negative years. Um and we've been real solid with our oil stocks and our gold and our dividend stocks. Um but to understand the game of Wall Street, I mean, 2 months ago, 95% of the people out there were saying we're going into a recession. Market's gone up what? 31 to 35 and I mean 34 and a half 35. I mean, maybe 35 and a half. Anyway, they don't know. They're crazy. I mean, you know, short term as Buffett says it's a a voting machine, long term stock market is a weighing machine. So, sooner or later the arithmetic, the objective will come into play, but I mean, Wall Street, they're nuts. I've seen it. I've seen Papa John's stock at 90 when I'm like should be 75 and I've seen it at 35 and it should be 60. I mean, they never get it right. And so, you have to know that. You're never going to out maneuver, outthink somebody that's irrational. Short term. The long term you can play them like fools. How do you not get complacent? Like 1993 comes around, you go public, $150 million valuation on that business. How do you still keep your foot on the gas and be just as motivated? I've got 10 of the best therapists in the world and they they can't figure out how to get rid of that. Yeah. Um no, that's I mean, that's the problem is learning how not to work. That That was, you know, when you're going from 5,000 stores, 120,000 employees to zero in one day, that was a real shock. You know, so um but I think you, you know, the spiritual work I've done um and the advice I've gotten is from a lot of smart people and myself is be patient but opportunistic. The four criteria, it's got to be authentic. Did y'all see I like real I like stuff that's real. You know, if it's truthful, authentic, genuine, I like that. Two is it's got to better humanity. Pizza was fine, but it does it's got an obesity issue. That bothers me, it's processed food. That always bothered me. So, whatever I do next, I don't want to be selling tobacco or owning a bar or, you know, something that's not healthy for humanity. I want something that benefits humanity. I eat Papa John's, I'm playing with that. Three is it has to be sustainable. I don't want to be feeding this thing every month. I mean, I don't want to have to put in, you know, 100 grand or a million dollars a month to keep it alive and four is has to be scalable. I like big stuff. So, I haven't met or found anything that meets those four criteria as of yet. Does it need to be profitable and making money? It You need to make money because when you do things at the level I do it, you have to reinvest. Mhm. You know, we just went over that exercise. We're making 700 grand a year and spending a million, you know, because you you know, when you when you when you do something that's authentic and high quality, it always takes more time and costs more money. And so, if you're not making a profit, you're not going to be able to execute a level that would that would satisfy me on my personal standards. So, you still at this point continue to care about building wealth, increasing your own personal, I would say, wealth. I'd say most people make hundreds of millions of dollars to make hundreds of millions more. I made hundreds of millions of dollars so I can enjoy my life. Mhm. Now, the caveat there is there's no reason to do something stupid. I mean, you know, I mean, there's no reason to tickle the tail and um I mean, I I I've got a deal a day that comes over my desk cuz everybody needs capital. But as soon as I invest in something, it's going to take my time. You know, let's say we do something with a a organic small retreat. The CEO is going to call me, well, the maintenance guy quit or the pipes in the building burst. I don't want to hear that. Unless I'm doing it unless I'm running the show, you know. Now, if if I'm running the show and I've got, you know, a way to go in and and really expand it and grow it big, then I don't mind the the pipes bursting and people quitting, but until I find that thing I want to focus on, I don't want to be bothered with. You know, my concept of a perfect day is I don't want any phone calls and no meetings. How y'all got this done, I don't know, but you know, good for you guys, but I don't we're convincing. I think that's it. We're persuasive. I wonder, I feel like what could be interesting for you would be something in media because it seems like you're you're highly opinionated. You have certain things that you value, right? Near and dear to your heart and you want something where I feel like you could potentially push that ideology through. a large change and that's very scalable. It's highly scalable, highly lucrative and also it does change the world to something that you could view as better, right? And there are other media companies that already exist that maybe could be bought out that mirror some of your opinions. Yep. Well, Schlotzky didn't tell me you guys were looking for capital. Uh if you got some if you got an idea on that. Media, I'm not sure I I think you'd be fantastic. You're you're a good you're fantastic on camera, you're well-spoken. Uh I don't see that. I don't I don't see that. I see it. And you have TV experience. which I mean, we've done so many so many podcasts and some people they have they struggle to get their words out in a very constant way. cohesive way. way and you do it very well. Oh, you're kind. I don't I don't see that. When I look at the interview, I don't First of all, I usually don't look at the interviews and secondly I do at them. I mean, I don't get upset with myself, but I don't think, okay, that was really good, you know. I've heard you say in some interviews that you were always worried about going broke. Uh-huh. I'm curious where that came from and at what point did that stop? Yeah, that was that was a real um I think that was a real limitation in my character. Um the we we grew up and again, my dad made he was making 100 grand a year in '72 and they'd always they he wouldn't pay the bills. They'd turn off our water, turn off our electricity. The look on my mom's face when they, you know, would try to repossess the car or we were a year behind exactly a year behind on our house payments and the water would be turned off. And I remember a lady across the street, Phyllis Huber. Her husband was John. He owned Budget Rental Cars in Louisville. She would cat around in a Mercedes blue Mercedes convertible Benz and my mom was going to lose, you know, had a old beat up Monte Carlo and was, you know, going to lose the car and I can just remember when they would turn off the water and the gas, my mom was just humiliated and I mean, I don't remember the exact conversations, but paying the bills was like a big deal to my mom and she hard hardwired me that if you don't, you know, Papa was all about credit, you know, your word, your bond, but mom was if you don't pay your bills on time, then, you know, you're you're worthless. And that was a little bit overkill on that. And so, we're cruising through the '90s, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, everything's going well and I'm still worried about being broke. I'm literally thinking that, you know, and I guess you if you do enough drugs and I guess enough divorces and I guess you enough gambling, I guess you can go to, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars, but you really got to work at it. But I was worried and um by this time, you know, we're at store turn of the century, we're over 2,000 stores and, you know, you just got to grow um with your your management style, your your competencies and your presence. So, we we started hiring coaches and, you know, most of the coaches um they weren't they weren't all that smart, you know, and so they really weren't helpful, but I did bump into one guy. He was really smart. Um and um he looked me over and up and down. He said, "You know, pizza boy, you got a problem." I said, "What's the problem?" He goes, "Ain't Vietnam." What do you mean? He goes, "It's not your house. It's not the bar. It's not the broom closet. They're not going to turn your water off. They're not going to turn the electricity off. Your mom's not going to go to bed crying cuz the bills aren't paid. Vietnam's over. You made it. Stop it." I said, "What do you mean?" "Vietnam's over. It's over. We're here today." And it stuck and that was the end of, you know, that fear. That was '99. One of the greatest gifts I ever got was a guy going, you know, it's not Vietnam. You know, it's not the it's not the bankrupt bar. It's not the sweaty broom closet with no air conditioning. It's not How do you feel like that held you back? Because I very much operate from the fact that like every day I'm like something's going to go wrong, prepare for like going broke and I like prepare for the worst in everything is like my baseline. And a lot of people have said, well, that's a scarcity mindset. You shouldn't be doing that. You should operate from abundance, but I'm like, well, you know, you never know. How old are you? I'm 33. Well, I mean, give yourself a break. When I was 33, I couldn't carry your luggage. Um at 60, you take the position the universe is always working for you. The universe is never working against you. You just don't realize it. And so, once you learn to fall in love with the unknown, you know, unlimited possibilities, unlimited opportunities, unlimited success, infinite opportunities. Once you realize the universe is always working for you, never against you, um then you you kind of get rid of that a little bit. But, I think the byproduct of being too much on the broke side or there's something going to go wrong is, you know, attitudes and emotions are infectious, they're contagious. So, if you're worried about not paying the bills or you're worried about something going wrong, which I think is a terrible mindset. I'm not being critical of you, I'm just you know, I think to be you you cover the downside, the upside takes care of itself. I I get that, you know, I have a helicopter. You don't want to go in a helicopter with one pilot and one engine and one hydraulics and one avionics. That Kobe Bryant had no avionics, no terrain avionics on that chopper and it was a Sikorsky, which is a $11 million helicopter and one pilot. He passed with one pilot. I mean, you know, you just you got to have redundancy. So, um I think you but you can't look at it what's going to go wrong because you'll go through people. And I was in the mid-90s, I was going through people. Too many people. That's your barometer. Are you losing good people? And when you're losing good people, then you got to take a hard look in the mirror. And I think it's a constant you know, the difference between wisdom and sin is the ability to self-confront. You know, so whenever I have a problem, like let's say we have a little disagreement on what we're doing here. I'm always going to go in and go, "What Okay, what did I do to make that problem?" You know, I go inward first. Okay. My God, I I did say I paid for the plane ticket. Oh, we did talk I did tell you 2 hours. Or the other way is, "No, you told me you needed 2 hours and now you want five." So, you know I mean, you go in first and then you if you're not the problem, you know, and you know in your heart of heart if you're the problem, you're the instigator or at least part of the problem. And then you go outward next. But the difference between sin and wisdom is ability to go inward and self-confront. I'm curious because it seems like you've had so many aha moments in your life from what you heard from that coach to that moment when you did 9,000 a week and then you realized that the local Domino's was doing 6,000 a week. What's different about those specific moments to give you that epiphany from all of these other moments that happen in your life that don't have that same level of change within you? Okay, you you don't get rich by cashing the check. You don't you don't get it's not a one-step process. You get yourself in position to get yourself in position to cash the check to get rich. So, everything success is nothing but discard the bad and you keep the good. Easy said, sometimes, you know, hard to do. You got to have the discipline. We always understood that the grand victory was not a one-day or one-year process. The the the the grand victory is baby step wins every day. Baby step wins every week, every month, every year on the way to the grand victory. Sooner or later, people are going to look up and say, "Wow, they got a thousand stores or three thousand or five thousand." It's like somebody that lays bricks. We're going to go out and watch these guys lay bricks here because they're 70 years old. They get off doing this labor at 70 years old. I mean, they're strong as an ox and then they go walk 5 miles. And you know, all they care about is church, laying brick, their family and fishing. And and they're 70 and they'll probably live to be a hundred, you know, but when you look at a building that's a hundred stories and the brick on the outside, it was one brick at a time. And all of a sudden you look up one day and there's a hundred story building out of brick. And so, if you do the baby steps, the brick one day at a time and you keep having these little baby wins every week, then sooner or later you're going to have a grand victory. So, those little uh best of Louisville, you know, hiring you know, a great CFO, a great IS person, being first on the internet. These are all little baby wins that we try to do and accumulate every day to to eventually have, you know, 5,000 stores and celebrate the grand victory. How did your philosophies change over time going from essentially a startup uh to a large business owner and your roles throughout the entire process? Did you just learn as you went along and how did your day-to-day activities change? We always believed from my mom and my grandfather's side that an integrity a based model of discipline, accountability, uh frugality, taking care of people, collaborative. We always had that on a three-dimensional um world of Newtonian physics, the product, um what we paid people, service, cleanliness of the store, the look of the store, um the integrity-based cause and effect, we had that figured out. We didn't have the terminology for it back in 1985, but the principles and the ideology were were set from the get-go. The quantum field, the physics of manifestation and synchronicity, we didn't we didn't really understand that till the last four or five years. That, you know, that the that the the molecule and the particle are controlled by the field. Energy and frequency and vibration control, you know, the particle, the molecule, the atom. We didn't understand that. Um uh we we we pretty well lived in the Newtonian uh realm, uh Newtonian world. We're we're good at it. Look around. You know, you want somebody to move particles and move molecules, you're talking to the right guy. Um and you know, if you want to build a railroad across the country, you got to sling a hammer and nail nails, but there is an easier way to go through life and I think the problems were having today, especially with our politics and the division of this country is not going to be solved at the Newtonian level. Too much too much fighting, too much quid pro quo, too much disregard, the hatred, the anger they have. I think it's going to take a spiritual realm and uh of goodness, kindness and compassion to fix the problems we have. And we always had mutual respect and kindness and compassion, um but I don't think we understood it in the realm of frequency and vibration uh and source, you know. I mean, what what's 90 99.9% of everything out here is dark matter. We don't even see the energy I'm talking about. Yet, you know, when you look at universes expanding infinitely infinite times per second, um you realize the amount of energy and vibration that's out there and the key is how do you tap into that through the quantum field. And we feel Joe Dispenza being is probably the best we've seen at tapping into the quantum field through the pineal gland to get divine inspiration. He thinks the pineal gland is the antenna to the divine. And the divine has all the wisdom, all the knowledge, all the equilibrium, all the brilliance that we need. We just got to tap into it. Have you always had these beliefs or was there a moment that kind of clicked for you where it's like, you know, I can control my own reality. Whatever I believe will eventually come to fruition. Newtonian physics is my game. It's all analytics. It's all arithmetic. It's all mass and inertia and momentum. I mean, geometry. I mean, that's, you know, that's my world. I mean, you know, that's where I excel. The quantum field where you you have the intent and you have the emotion come back of what it feels like when Now, that um that's that's the last five years, four years. But I think we all thirst for something greater than ourselves. I mean, what are we here? Why are we here? You know, what's our purpose? And if you you break it down to where everything's Newtonian, materialistic, then, you know, really? I mean, there's nothing higher than that. There's nothing more important than that. There's nothing more sacred than that. So, now, the the quantum where you you move particles and molecules in matter with energy versus moving molecule and particles uh in matter with molecules and particles of matter, that's just coming into fruition. The quantum work the quantum field work. Um and a lot of scientists are working on this and it's it's really coming into play quite quite nicely the way it hangs together. Even though I can tell you if you put out the intent and you and you do get in the right state where you're out of the three-dimensional world into the quantum field of nobody, no thing, nowhere, um it does work every time. Um I still don't believe it, though. As I said, I have Well, you know, this is what you do. This it's Einstein's physics. It makes total sense from a scientific perspective and it works. It's very pragmatic. And that's what I always look at it as a work. But you're going to tell me that I'm going to hook to my pineal gland, put an intent out, feel like it would it comes back in a state of nobody, nowhere, nothing, darkness and it's going to happen. I'd say you're out of your mind. But I've never had it not work. Ever. Yeah. And by the way, the the the the closer your desires are, your intent, to the current reality, the faster they they happen. I mean, I can put a an intent out that I want to be worth $3 billion, but that's a that's a stretch right now, you know. It just it's farther from the three-dimensional reality. But the easy stuff, you know, or that's that's already right here, excuse me, is going to happen much quicker with that intent. But Dispenza's work is it's crazy. I spent time with Joe. Um he's a wonderful human being. He's smart as hell and he's unique. He's a doctor, chiropractor. So you got that aspect of it. He's a triathlon. He's an incredible athlete. He He had a really bad crash. Car ran over him on his bike. So he had to deal with that on the you know some of the spinal column issues and health issues. He's also an artist. But his kids are unbelievable artist. So he's an artist. So you got this unique guy like Einstein was scientific, you know, analytical, but he said imagination is more important than intelligence. So Einstein was kind of an artist, too. I mean you know the way he had to think about, you know, uh speed of light, etc. And and Joe Dispenza but Joe Dispenza's work is definitely going to change the world if we could just be more of us like, you know, getting that quantum field of uh bliss and love and compassion and kindness and generosity and graciousness and thankfulness, um we'd solve a lot of our world's problems pretty quickly. We got to try to get Joe on. That'd be great. Yeah, I got a cool message to share. I'm really interested about raising children with this level of wealth. Do you find it challenging to instill the correct values in them maybe as as a parent probably should with their with their kids about not feeling entitled, having to work hard, the true value of a dollar. How were you able to do this with your children? Is it impossible to do with this level of wealth? That's a great question and a it's got an answer that's not exactly flattering, but um the I dated my girlfriend in high school for 9 years. We had a child together. Um she actually lives across the street. She lives on basically on the property. She's an attorney. The child or your girlfriend from that long? My my No, my child. I was Okay, yeah. I was Okay, that would have been my first one. Okay. No, it's my daughter. It's my daughter. My daughter My daughter and my grandson live across the street. Okay, cool. And she's an attorney and um she's self-made and you know I help her out here and there with stuff, but she's pretty pretty independent. And then I was married for 32 years and we had two children. And um my wife was extremely attentive to the the kids and they lived uh an unbelievable lifestyle. Um and she was a great mom, but the one thing we did fight over is she she pampered the kids. It's It's a problem when it comes to work ethic. When you know, I mean when I was 6 years old, I've got to get up and go work on my grandfather's property. You know, and you know, my my my kids are 14 and they can play computer games all night and not get out of bed. That That's That's created some problems that way. Um but you know, all three are good kids. I've got a friend in the real estate business that's quite wealthy and he just had a son. And he's adamant that his son's not going to grow up like the other kids where they're spoiled rotten. But um you know, this this millennial situation, it's one of the reasons I haven't jumped back into anything yet. And the Gen Z is they um they want higher paying jobs, more flexibility with hours, more time off. They the worst tippers, so they're not generous. They don't feel like they have to show up or show up on time. I don't understand how that works where you you know, you don't show up or you don't show up on time. You don't have any problem not showing up. You want a cushy job with less hours, with more benefits. Uh by the way, you're not generous. I don't see how that arrangement works with marriage or works with kids or works with employer. Um I mean when you your personal integrity is on the line when you take a job and you say I'll show up. That's your personal integrity. And when you don't show up, okay, you hurt Starbucks. You hurt the company. Well, yeah. Well, you hurt the manager. Well, yeah, kind of did because we hurt the system. Yeah, well, she's got to come in and pull my shift. Well, the other employees have to work harder because I didn't show up. I mean that's enough damage there with your self-respect. Look at what you did to yourself. You know, you said you'd show up, said you'd show up on time and do the job and you don't. I mean how can you feel good about yourself? So this is going to be interesting how we've gotten away from, you know, a lot of the values, you know, and now the number one thing is money. Used to be religion and faith and values were 45. Now I think that's 18. Used to be money was 18 and now it's 45. So this is going to be interesting how this uh the millennials and the the Gen Zs handle a mindset of I really don't want to work. Work's kind of something that I really don't want to do. I really don't want to show up. Um when I do work and get make money, I'm I'm not a very good tipper. That doesn't work good. Of course, I'm in the service business, I think. I'm big on tipping. So um you know, um but back to my kids, I mean they're honest. For the most part, they're hard working and and you know, what my son's 25. You know, my two daughters are in in the mid mid-30s. So um they're they're good. Let's see what they do with their lives. How did having kids change your philosophies on life and business? I think having kids you get excited about coming home. Um but as much as I love the kids, um what I really like is the grandkids. That's what I like is the grandkids. Um um and both my oldest grandson Grayson and my youngest uh grandchild um John Buck, whatever it is, they both have it. You know, and you know, it is when you meet somebody and they've either got it or they don't. And uh they walk in and and um they just take over the room. You know, they're they're they're just happy. So I think that's uh um I think the family aspect of it. I mean at the end of the day, if you don't have support from friends and family, I mean I've got so many people that I'm associated with that come from good families and it's it's just a real asset. And then I you know, I've got friends that come from, you know, mom or dad. They don't have anything to do with them. And I mean it's it's hard on the kids. It's hard on them and that my heart goes out to that, you know, when they don't have that family unit to fall back on. I think it's a tremendous asset to have and I it's not a nicety, it's a necessity to have, you know, I mean we all have good days and bad days. It's nice to have that support system in place and I think that starts with friends and family. How were you able to find the silver lining in everything? It seems like they're all the trials and tribulations that you've been through, you're still able to find the good in it and then use that to your advantage time and time and time again. Did you learn to teach yourself that? Did you have to learn how to find the silver lining in order to be to to be fine, to be positive still, or is it an innate thing, some inherent quality you've had? You know, when they were trying to come up with the airplane around the world, it's like six guys came up with airplane all at the same time on all different different places in the world. You know, that's just one example. This happens all the time. And so there seems to be a higher intelligence, the field, the energy where there's, you know, something more going on than we really understand. Um but I look at it from a pragmatic perspective. And you know, my three-dimensional world's pretty sweet, frankly. You know, and I'm healthy. My kids, my friends, everybody Nobody around us right now is having any health issues and it you know, that's what hap you know, as you get older, that's something you got to really look out for. But the key is you got to stay grateful. You got to stay humble. I mean, you know, you you know, we just really are not that smart. I mean, if you really look at the source, the creator, um you know, what you know, the the one sentence that you just asked me the question. 4 billion neurons fired. Your subconscious picked up 2,000 of those and your conscious picked up three. I mean, what's going on? I mean there's enough electricity going through your body right now to go around the earth 10 times. I mean it's just it's the the intelligence of the creator is so brilliant. You know, what's faster than speed of light? Well, whatever created the speed of light. How fast is speed of light? 186,000 miles a second. Second. A plane goes 500 miles an hour. This thing I mean the intelligence of this the source um is just is it just so magnificent and brilliant that we're never going to understand it, but we can certainly appreciate it and and understand that we don't have the ability to really understand. You know, I used to have a saying at Papa John's, this is a Johnism. People that don't know, they don't know. Well, they don't know. And um I just think that to think you know it all or think you've got it figured out, I think that's the beginning of the end. So if you just start with the premise of I'm thankful for this day, I'm thankful for my health, um I'm thankful for this three-dimensional world, I'm thankful for the ability to go into a five-dimensional world and try to figure things out at a higher level. Um and um I think if you just stay really grateful and and and gracious and humble, I think that's 95% of it. Do you read a lot? Mhm. Do you read Eckhart Tolle? I've never heard of that. Eckhart Tolle? It sounds very similar to what you're saying, something I've I've read in Eckhart Tolle. What's it about? Uh he's got I mean he talks about the ego a lot, so like your identity, your vision of who you are. And then I'll also also a lot about presence and not being too concerned about the past or anxious about the future and stuff like that. So Beautiful. Yeah, the um the precious present moment is hard. You know, you don't want to live in the past because you look at the past like my dad learn from it, you know, you know, it's great, but you don't want to harp on not paying bills, you know, you pay the bills. In the future you can get too tied up with that too, but you know, that's that's where the quantum is is because the present and the past and the future are all here now. Exactly. It's a it's a mind, you know, that the the the creator the source just slowed the speed of light down slow enough that we could have a three-dimensional world. Hey, if you really look at quantum physics there's no separation. There's really no you or no me, it's us everybody, which is a mind screwing itself. one last question for you if we got to wrap up. Um, when did you decide to make your face the brand of Papa John's and do you feel like that was a net positive and what way? That happened we had done some commercials from 2000 to '07, '08. And I was in a suit and tie and nobody really believed I was Papa John. They thought I was an actor. And Jordan Zimmerman came up with Papa's in the house in '08, '09. And I remember in the conference room and headquarters I said, "Oh, you know, I'm not too sure about this." He said, "You think it'll sell a lot of pizza?" I said, "Oh, it'll sell a lot of pizza." Um, but I said, "Once you're in the spotlight and you have conservative values, even if you're not political about them, which I wasn't at the time, you know, but we ran the the company on conservative values. In my opinion, that's how we had the success we had. Um, I knew that I was going to become a target for the left. So, um, we we took the stock from October of '08 was $6.80 a share. Then when I got off the bus in '16, it was $88 a share. So, 12 12-fold. Mhm. So, it was a it was a good run. It worked out. And both things happened. Um, we sold a hell of a lot of pizza. And then, you know, as you know, I got crucified for something I really didn't say, but another problem with that is the timing. If that would have happened today with all the knowledge the consumer now has about woke and cancel culture and they had a tape of what I said, um, wouldn't have been a wouldn't have been a big deal. It, you know, it'd been like, "Hey, you know, could have said it differently." Um, but the intent and the position of, you know, was something that was anti-racist, not a racist slur was plain as day from the get-go. We just couldn't get the word out because, you know, time Twitter's was paying setting the computer up for clicks. So, you you had 600 million clicks in 8 minutes. We don't even know how many of those were real real people or how many of those were manufactured by Twitter just to hammer me because, you know, I did a fundraiser for a few Republicans. So, yeah. But it's been wonderful having you guys. Thank you very much. having us, letting us into your home. Beautiful here. And uh yeah, we really appreciate it. Who's going to run the camera as we go around the grounds? That's Jack. I got it. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. Thanks you guys for tuning in. How much time do you need? Till next time. Uh, to walk around the No, to you you want to set