"FOCUS" ON BURL.'S INTERVALE COMM. FARM

[music] Hi, my name is Patricia Brain and this is Focus. We're down at the Innervil Avenue farm and we're going to be talking about community supported agriculture. Um, Tim, what's your name? >> My name is Tim Leairard. >> Thanks. Uh Tim, your position here is manager, right? >> Right. >> Tell us about um the roots of um the Inve. >> Well, the farm started um three two or three people from the Burlington community um wanted to get organic vegetables and wanted to um get them fresh and from a local farmer. And because there wasn't too many around, they decided to use a model out of um Europe called community community supported agriculture. And they hired a farmer from Massachusetts. Um that was a year before me before I started working down here in 1987 and um had him come up here and they he grew vegetables for them. In the first year, we had, I think, about 97 families that paid a certain amount of money. Um, and in return for their share price, they got fresh vegetables all through the season. >> Now, is that still true that you can buy a share in the farm? >> Right. We have um this year we're offering 130 shares and also a um 50 winter shares. for building a root seller. Um, and it costs $295 and it's the summer share goes for 18 weeks and the winter share is um it's there's 10 pickups over 20 weeks. >> Now, when you say a pickup and uh what does that mean exactly? A pickup is um starting in the mi mid June people well we start early in the morning and harvest everything that's ready and um then people come after work from like 4 to 6 and pick up all the vegetables all the harvest. So, does that mean a family could come every day and pick up some harvest or >> We have um share members come once a week and we have two pickups Monday and Thursday. >> Oh, good. Okay. And then for that that goes on all through the summer and through the winter then. So, and then so for a whole year a family can uh pay a c this amount of money which you said again was what? >> It's $295. And then they can now do they don't they have to put some work into the farm? >> They Yeah, we to keep down the cost of the farm. Um people work 12 hours throughout the season. We we hope that they work four in the spring, four in the summer, and four in the fall to kind of spread it out because we really do rely on um that help to make the farm work. >> That that seems like not very much work. No, for some people it it, you know, it's it it works out pretty well. You know, it's it's easy to do. Other people that are a little more busy or just have a hard time getting down here, it becomes a problem. But it generally it's it works out really well. And it's nice. People come down here and they they not so much they just they don't get just vegetables. they come down here and learn about how we work and how the farm works and how um the intervail, you know, how the intervail supports um this farm. >> Uh so how long now? This started in ' 87. Is that when it started? >> Yeah. And >> have you been here since the beginning? >> I was here for the first year. Yeah. I guess I guess in 80 87 we was really a pilot project. The following year we had a bigger share membership and then um you know it it's taken off since then to what we're shooting for this year is 130 members. >> Now what what are the advantages um to keeping a having a farm like this other than the cost you know differential for people? >> Um well one thing is that um the people know where their food is coming from. Um there's a nice article I was reading a while ago about uh a model in Japan and um members there uh say that they like to have the farmer's face on the vegetables and um that's what we try to do here you know that it's not just the radishes from California it's you know radishes from the inner radishes from Burlington Washington. >> How many acres do you have here? >> We grow on seven. Um, five of which we we are um actually growing on and two are in rotation in the cover crop. >> Now, tell us why you rotate. When you do organic gardening, it's really important to rotate. Can you tell tell talk to us a bit about that? >> Well, there's a lot of reasons why we rotate. Um a few are uh it adds organic matter to the soil. If you add a legume, it we're adding um nitrogen. It fixes nitrogen. Um it also improves the soil structure generally because of the organic matter. Um also decreases u or it kind of it it um pest pest and disease problems can their cycles can be um cut down you know and that can cut it can cut down on those types of problems. Um and and generally it just lets the soil rest, gives it a break from all our um >> all ouring tilling. Yeah, >> this is all completely organic. Then >> we're certified um by um the natural organic farmers association of Vermont um in Mount Peelar and uh we've been certified for I guess since our inception in 1987. >> Now are there other community supported uh uh farms like this? >> Yeah, there there's a farm uh community supported farm in Willist. Um there is one out in Marshfield next to Planefield or Mielar and there's another one out I think Cabbat and uh there's a new one starting up in um White River Junction and there's one in Crash Prairie. They're they're just starting they're just blooming all over the country. Not so much not even just Vermont. I think in 80 86 I guess were the first two farms. two CSAs, one in Massachusetts and the other in New Hampshire. And now they're estimating that there's going to be 400 this year. So in um five years it's or six years it's gr you know it's grown from two to 400. Now, is the Vermont one one of the first ones or was like the third one third one or? >> Yeah, we were one of the fir we we started up after the first year of the other two and we we learned about the the model from uh um Droger Grow who headed up the uh CSA in New Hampshire. >> So, he came here and helped you get this one going? >> He did. He he he's he's pretty inspirational person and um talks very well about uh how to um create community around agriculture and how to um how for the community take to take responsibility for the food they eat. >> I'd really like to get into that with you at some point. I think what we'll do is um [music] we'll come back and talk to you more in depth about that. that maybe we can even have some sort of a symposium [music] talking about that that very point. >> Great. Thanks very much for for talking with me and um I want to meet with Alyssa who is working with you and um Merrick. Is that okay? Great. We're at Intervil Community Farms and we're going to be talking to a couple of the farmers here. We just finished speaking with uh Tim who's the manager of the farm. And now I want to talk to a couple of the people who are actually working with him and who are interns here um and get their insights. Good morning. >> Hi. >> Would you just do me a favor and say your name? >> Sure. Alyssa Levelvel. >> Wonderful. And >> Merrick Cobin. >> Great. You're both uh as I understand it, you're both interns >> here. >> Yeah. >> And and you're farmers basically. [laughter] >> That's our intention. You're weeding this morning, I take it. >> Yeah, we have to weed this entire bed. Uh, it's pretty heavily overgrown, I'd say. >> But we're just in time. >> You're just in time. >> Yeah. >> Now, is this a is this a bed of onions, did you say? >> Yes, they're bulb onions. Probably to be mature towards September. And these will be uh part of the shares that that people who are me um shareholders will get from here. >> Yep. These will be one of the things they pick up uh later on when they come down to get their poundage vegetables every week. >> How how did you get involved? Well, I um I met Tim, the manager here, um a little while ago, about a year or so ago, and found out about what he was doing from him. And then I had also just heard a lot about the farm just around the community. And um I had an interest in community supported agriculture previously because I was fortunate enough to um be able to study a community supported agriculture project in the Planefield Marshfield area. So I was interested in learning the business aspect of this kind of farming system as opposed to the open market farming system which which a lot of people are doing in the state right now too. It's grown very very fast from my understanding. Tim has said >> did he mention that about 600 new CSAs are starting up this year. Yeah. >> Yeah. And including in Vermont there are about six or seven that are happening right now and I think there are a lot of reasons why that's happening. I think there's probably a new level of awareness, you know, I can't be sure at all. Uh but about well certainly among farmers about what needs to be done to stabilize their income and their ability to just be in farming period. Um, and I think that, you know, consumers are also interested in finding out more about their food source. And I think there's a community revitalization aspect that also attracts people. When I was uh quite a bit younger and raising my kids, organic gardening was a very important part of what I did every day. Uh-huh. >> And uh that of course is hard to do all year round, but in Vermont because of the growing season. >> So, how do you deal with that yourself? >> Well, um we have greenhouse systems, you know, and so we get started in March and that that enables us to have early greens and get our transplants going to really extend that that growing season. In addition, we're uh doing storage crops this year, and we're going to be building a root seller in one of the old buildings, one of the old train buildings up by Gardener Supply Company. So, that'll definitely extend our our uh resources here. We're going to offer winter shares this year. >> Yeah. Did have you been involved have you been involved with the the winter shares part of it? >> No, I haven't. Uh I just started here, Patricia. um when Alyssa did uh in the I guess it was the early spring and I knew nothing about community ustable agriculture up to the time that I did a project with uh our manager Tim Leairard um and a permaculture design class. >> Now tell me what a permaculture design class would be like. I mean what were you doing? What were you doing? Basically, it was a class concerned with uh developing farming systems based on the ecology of the land instead of altering the the uh resources of a farm to such an extent that it damages the uh the resource base. So, for example, in this particular project, Tim and I um focused on this acreage right here, including a barnyard area called Reena Caukins Barnyard uh under the assumption that soon that uh acreage will be sold because, as you may or may not know, dairy farming in this state is going down the tubes because it can't compete with other parts of the nation. So we were assuming that if we uh had that land, how could we incorporate it into a permaculture design which could be an additional expansion of the innervale farm. So that's how I met Tim working on that project and was introduced to community sustainable agriculture and uh it was a great introduction and I heard about the internship and I took it because it sounded like such a positive idea and my biggest motivation was simply the idea that bringing the production of food back into the hands of the people instead of controlled by agri business by big companies which produce food in a very uh synthetic fashion if you will and something that where you can't really feel secure about uh the quality of the food you're getting and uh probably one of the bigger motivations for me in in this uh ethical concern is is actually stems from uh some time I spent in India where I um did projects with farmers there who didn't have control over the land or their their food products and uh that type of experience and realizing the importance of of uh what growing food plays in our culture both politically, economically, socially and having that become such a real experience to me in India uh drew me to to find some type of uh greater understanding here on here on the farm and so far it's been that it's been a real education. >> Yeah. You know, it it's it's fascinating that you should say that too because um in reality the way farming has been and since uh this sort of automated way it's been taken over in a sense and controlled in a sense by what the demand is. The government asks us to do certain things or ask the farmer to do such certain things. >> Subsidized production certainly to get lower prices on food like the big three rice, soybeans, and wheat which are subsidized by the federal government. Actually, $ 31 billion subsidized so that we have lower prices so that we can influence the world market and have political control. But that's not what food production is about for me. It shouldn't be a political thing. It should be a human thing. It should be us feeding ourselves, our children, our community. And this is really the first and start of that right here for me. that >> I think uh this is where my um where I get back to feeling really really good about what we did as parents uh 20 years ago in terms of our attitude at that time and our need and our want to see organic gardening become more a common uh activity. And it seems to me that that um the reality is that when I hear people in your age bracket say things like that, it really warms my heart because it means that we, you know, all hasn't been in vain in terms of, you know, where a large number of us were at in the 60s and wanting. I've spoken to some market growers who are probably in your generation and they've been so discouraged in their careers and it really is sad. Um, they've chosen to move on to other careers and these are the most experienced growers in the state with the resources and the just tons of of intense knowledge about their field. And um the fact is it doesn't have to be that way. You know, I've heard a lot of discouragement from them, but I say they have given us so much. They've given us the technology. They've they've brought the state into it. You know, the state has been um well, up until a couple years ago, they were funding the NOA certification program. Um so, there's all of this big conversation that's going on, and I feel like we've really inherited something from from the market growers. Well, I hope that I can get back together with you and both and Tim and that we can discuss this further and um maybe uh bring in some of those people who I know personally who who as dairy farmers and as Vermont farmers um have really like you say been discouraged. And maybe we can uh by airing this uh first part of of this whole segment on on farming that I intend to do, we'll uh get more uh people involved and maybe we can get more people out here and get more farm started. >> So there's such opportunity here. I mean an economic opportunity as well as a a cultural one. people people save money by becoming part of their own their own viability by helping grow their own food here on a cooperative cooperatively owned farm. And uh it's a political statement. It's a social statement and it's it's a uh ethical statement. So if you want something that's happening here, the opportunity is available. >> Thanks very much both of you. So, we're going to get back on that topic we were talking about the other day about community supported, you know, more about the philosophical background of community supported agriculture. If you you guys have a few minutes between what you're doing here and One of the things I read here is uh that you sold some of your shares to area businesses, but you also produce uh and and give to the emergency food shelter and various other nonprofits that are in need. >> I guess it's the last two years, we've given all our excess food to the food shelf. And um we kind of thought that it would be nice not to give the excess to the food shelf but give the first rate stuff. So we came up with this idea to sell shares to local businesses so it works for us as a farm um monetarily and in return give share give those shares out to um groups not only the But like groups like women helping and um >> is there a group shelter >> for halfway house for women in transition? >> We actually got um over 12 different groups have expressed interest in getting shares in the Burlington area >> and then th those like you say are purchased by the businesses and then donated to the groups. >> Oh, that's perfect. That works. It works for everybody, you know. It works for us, it works for the businesses, and it really works for the groups that get the food because they generally like um a lot of people get the government surplus foods that it's like cheese and peanut butter and their fresh foods are just not available to them. So, it's a nice it's a nice option for them. It seems like there there will be more opportunity for that this year because we're building root seller and we might be able to sell some winter shares for the same purpose. Has that been done? >> Yeah, we the um food shelf. It was funny. They they really didn't want any more fresh vegetables because we were giving them too much. We gave them over like 2,000 pounds last year. But they really were interested in getting root root like oh we have this new thing winter share and they are interested in getting that because they can't get fresh vegetables in the winter so they're like using all canned goods and frozen stuff in >> can you uh tell me you a little bit about the background and the philosophical uh motivation for you to come and work here? >> Sure. Um, yeah, there there are a number of things I'd say. Um, the main incentive for me was to be able to be be at home in this community. I've been here for a little while and and I wasn't really looking to go out any place else and do farming. And um I had also not wanted to go back into any market gardening for this season. And since this came up, it was it was just it per it was perfect. It fit right into my life because enabled me to be more in touch with some of the problems that I see in farming and in the community. So >> like for an example, >> uh well basically people's disconnection from the land. I'd say it sounds a little bit trit, but it's true that um I think I might have mentioned earlier that I think of this as kind of an alternative space and I'd like to do more with looking at at what is out here on the intervail as a piece of land and and um be more involved with having the community see this as a place where they can go to have open space and to be together, which is something I didn't really see in Burlington. I mean, we have parks, several different parks, Pomemoroy Park and Battery Park, and then the lake the lakefront is now being converted into more a more of an accessible environment, but there's something kind of sterile about those places. They're kind of really controlled, and it's just lawn, and I like to see something a little more wild. Yes, you we had t talked a little bit about that with people coming out with their families and uh listening to the birds and >> community involvement with the land and and the grower, >> right? I think the the reason why a lot some CSAs are born out of uh financial um making is like an established farm that sees a community supported agricultural operation as a way to be more viable financially. Um, and with that most CSAs and our CSA kind of concentrates on is um, bringing the community into farming, having these group of 130 families be responsible for the food that they eat for a good part of the year. Um, and you know, it's like if they weren't if they weren't committed to this, this land would be producing I'm not sure it'd probably be producing corn for um for mil dairy cows. And you know, as most people know, the dairy industry in Vermont isn't doing very well at the moment. So, it's um it's it seems like it's they're doing something a lot more positive down here. >> Yeah. I wanted to say it's on that same note that um I feel like CSA is a way for people to let their money communicate something really effective as opposed to just being dispersed into the larger food system which is really complex and where most of the information is hidden. I feel like a great majority of the information about where the food was grown, where it traveled to, who packaged it, what it's packaged in, you know, all that kind of stuff is not accessible to us. And so our money just kind of goes out there. And with this, it's like it's almost like the money becomes like a voice or something different than just money, you know, as a collective um concentrated resource. And I think that's a good it's an alternative economic system. I think >> the money is not pay you know the I don't know what percentage but a large majority of the money that you buy ahead of lettuce in Martins is not paying for the lettuce or it's not paying the people to grow the lettuce. It's like paying for transport. It's paying for pesticides and water and it's not creating a living wage for people that work on on the land and it's not creating a system where the land is is um being rejuvenated or kept healthy. I was surprised to hear the news uh last night or this morning. I don't remember which. And uh the the idea was I guess the government is just uh doing out big bucks right now. So the farmer will cease to farm on a lot of his land. And that seems extremely uh crazy when there are so many people in this country that are starving. >> That has to do with the organization again with with the larger infrastructure that basically consumers don't have a handle on at all. It's, you know, we don't have choices about who grows what where. Really, it comes down to comparative advantage. >> The other thing, of course, is that we you're the are all all the community supported agriculture is organic. Is that organically grown? Is that correct? >> I've actually looked at that and I haven't found a community farm that isn't organic. So, uh, I think that's That's a big important issue for groups that are going to take the step to support a farm. They also want it to be organic. We've we found that we did a little survey last year at the end of the year and us growing organic vegetables was the most important thing for our farm our the members of the farm like 80% said that was the most important thing for them. So >> where did the concept of community supported agriculture actually get originate? >> Well, I it came from Western Europe and there are and and Japan. There's there's a I think 25 or 30 years ago, it kind of evolved in both of those different areas. Um where people got a little frustrated in trying to grow food and then try to sell it. Whereas if they have bring people on the farm, they're just growing food and they don't have to sell it. And it made a I was reading about one in eur um I guess it was Germany where they were just completely frustrated with the idea that that they had to have the perfect vegetable to sell it on the market and because you know a percentage of their food wasn't perfect they couldn't sell it and it was going it was being wasted. Whereas their farm when they embraced um community supported agriculture, none of their food, it goes to waste. It all goes to the people. You know, if their cucumber is a little smaller than the box it's supposed to go in, it still goes out on the stand. Um which is nice. I mean, people um I think really appreciate it and that things aren't going to waste >> and and uh what were you gonna say? >> Well, um I know about this one consumers cooperative in Japan, which is just a good example of how a nation that has a lot more agricultural experience than the United States is able to join together. Um it's called the Sagatu Club Consumers Cooperative and it was started by a group of about 30 so quote unquote housewives who were looking for a good source of milk for their children I guess after they were done nursing and they captured a local market and then it just expanded from there and now they have almost all of their household needs met by this cooperative buying system and I just think that's something to aspire to. I mean, we may not reach it's some it has an incredible like hundreds of thousands of members and I don't necessarily think that's the best way for us to do that here, but something to aspire to. I guess that's great. There was something we started talking a little bit before and and I I'm not sure that that we were on film when we did it, but um or on tape and how this whole process works in terms of the relationship to the ecosystem. Am I saying that word correctly? What how does that how do we affect that directly with this sort of activity? Um we reduce so many pollutants I think fuel packaging um freon for refrigeration that kind of thing where >> um pesticides herbicides and no runoff like we're in a flood plane down here if we're using um you know fertilizers and pesticides that if we just blast our soils with those things and we have a flood, it's all going into the wooki or if we have a hard rain, it's all leaking down into the wooki. Um, and you know, that's something that I the the lake Champlain right now is is in big trouble, I think, because of all the pollutants. And a big part of that is is um farmers. >> I mean, I've I've read I read in a book um called Family Farming that um farmers are the largest polluters in the largest industrial polluters in the United States. And um and I truly believe that the reason why these farmers are the largest industrial polluters is not because they want to be. It's because they're forced to be because of the economics of scale. They have to be big. They have to be fast. There's no there's no choice for them to slow down and get off their tractor and and look at the land. Um >> how do you Oh, go ahead. I was going to say Another great thing about this location is that we are capturing the organic matter so-called waist stream to some extent from the city where with these compost piles. So that's another major part of the ecosystem that we're helping out. >> You use some of this um from this uh to to to work with in the fields. Yeah, we let's see. Pretty much all the leaf wastes that people rake up, if they don't want to pay dumping fees at the city dump, they um bring them down to the Intervail on the Intervil compost project, which is run by the city and the Intervil Foundation um makes compost and we're in we work with them and we make compost too with them. >> Yeah. And it's a really good thing because more or less we're getting compost for an extremely inexpensive extremely inexpensively like close to zero except for maybe labor that we put into it. And and with that, we're we're just like increasing the organic matter of the soil and rejuvenating it because it's been depleted over the years through uh farming practices that weren't exactly sustainable. But it can be composted and it can be like you say the soil itself, it can it can be rejuvenated. So in other words, even if those people had used pesticides on their lawn and and trees, it can be broken down by the composting system. So then in effect, it it it is a a safer recycling of of that. >> It I've I've done a I've done a lot of searching for like information about taking lawn clippings from like um what what was it called? Not the nature's helper. It used to be Camelon, I guess. Um, and supposedly if you're taking lawn clipping clippings that have those residues on it, if you put them into a compost pile that's, you know, a really healthy and and vigorous pile, it somehow, and I'm not even going to attempt to get into how it it it just it like it does something and and and it becomes this healthy thing it it I'm not really sure how but I've never read anything where like organic certification process you don't have to you can take stuff from um non-organic sources and you can call it organic after because compost is such a powerful medium or or means to change a substance >> but the runoff into the lake is a totally different thing >> they it unless it's so >> if you take com if you take like cow manure and this is I mean it's a hard thing for farmers to do just like I was saying earlier if if it was economically feasible for farmers to be less um have less impact on the land and on the soil and on the whole biosphere. here. I think they would, but you know, farmers can't work. You can't like take the time to make compost because they have about a billion other things to do. And um but if you do make compost out of manure instead of like applying it during the winter on the hard ground um so they you know if they if they wait until it's like a more safer time to apply compost or apply manure they like lose the window of growing their corn you know they have to wait long because the the ground will be wet and all that. But um if they if somehow the economics were that you could make compost out of all this manure, it's such a more stable um substance. You don't lose all the if there is a big rain, you don't lose all the nitrogen and the phosphorus into the um into the water system >> and it's incorporated into micro microorganisms chilated into the organic matter into humus. Have you can you tell us of examples where farmers who have had to produce on a larger scale have actually made the conversion and are now farming organically and how how difficult a process is this and how many have you seen a lot of success in that department? Have people do you know of farmers who have actually made that uh leap from one to the other? It's it's I wouldn't maybe not maybe exceedingly difficult would be a um overstatement, but it's hard. I mean to there there's a farmer in um southern Vermont who is really um is really well thought of in the organic community and he has stated that it took him from converting his farm um from conventional to organic 8 to 10 years to bring back all the beneficial insects and to bring back like a healthy system where if uh potato beetle or or if flea beetles or whatever um pest that is not um well thought of what on the Yeah. Well, not on the farm. um that it doesn't go out of whack and you don't have like this huge problem with potato beetles that there's a beneficial insect that will attack that. Like um there's a certain type of wasp that eats the larvae and and we we've seen that down here. We have this amazing wasp that um eats um cabbage loopers um which are this little green um ugly nasty little bug that eats um cabbage the cabbage family and um broccoli and stuff and cauliflower and eats the leaves and also gets into the heads and craps all over the place. They're not too But um >> and you don't like him. Well, not so much. At a certain point, I don't mind them, but people don't like to eat them. So, uh, but we have this wasp that's just amazing. And I've noticed it over the last two years increase in numbers. Um, and it just comes it will just find it on eat just completely eating cabbage loopers. They just kind of chew right through them and you you try to like shoe them away and they won't even move because they are so into cabbage loopers. >> Yeah. And by by increasing the diversity of the crops in the area, you're increasing the chances of providing a habitat for something like that, >> which is harder with a monocrop system. >> But it took him about 10 years to convert. Huh. >> That's what that's what he said. You know, that's how he felt it. It took him to get a system that he didn't it wasn't like he wasn't being reactionary. He didn't have to say, "Oh my god, the potato beetles are out there. I got to go and spray them with some organic um pesticide or something." I have there will be something there that will take care of the potato beetles so they don't get out of control. So the system, like you were saying, the system is gets into balance. >> So you don't you're not pest putting dangerous pesticides on the plants anymore. >> I mean, if if you were in a commercial situation, um if you had cabbage loopers, you'd just kind of you'd look it up in a book and you'd find this fancy chemical and you'd go out there and spray >> or you have your spray schedule set up even if there weren't any cabbage lubers there. and spray and I'm and you know the chances are that when you're spraying for the loopers you're also killing a lot of organisms or um insects including the wasp I'm talking about so that population would be destroyed and um you know the cabbage loopers might be destroyed for that day but they'll come back and >> I remember having an organic gardening uh encyclopedia IA. So if we had a problem, we'd look it up in our in our Rodeale press >> encyclopedia to find out what what we needed to to do to take care of whatever little bug was doing its thing. >> Yeah. It's not organic farming is not easy. It's uh >> we need to use a lot of resources, but a regular farmer does too. So it would just seem to me that I mean maybe we need a halfway house for to help those people who who may want to convert. You know >> there is something called ATRA um alternative tech technology transfer for rural areas in Arkansas and that's a USDA sponsored program. Um and they they are like an alternative extension service. So that's a good example of something that could be expanded upon. a farmer who wants an alternative method for treating a disease can write in and within six hours or something they'll have something back in the mail. They've got a team of researchers. So that's not exactly local but it is happening. That's wonderful. I mean I know we have had the extension service of many universities our own included where if you wanted information agricultural information you could write in and get it. You know, it would seem to me that at this point maybe that's where the need is greatest. >> Yeah. Well, it's not the right now it's not too positive because the in Vermont the um the extension service has just been cut like in a large way. A lot of people are gone now. >> That's what I heard. >> And the state cut its funding for the NOA certification program also. Now, now what the what? Go ahead, tell me. I wasn't listening to that station at that time. >> Yeah, the natural organic farmers association um is the certifying agency for Vermont organic farms [music] and had I think the second program in the nation and one of the most stringent in terms of limitations and standards. uh was founded in 1973 in southern Vermont and has evolved over the years and kept its membership up and is provides basically extension service work for organic growers. I'd say >> it's a great resource. It's a great resource for farmers, not only the actual u entity of NOA, but as a link between all the other organic farmers as as a means for them to, you know, um discuss things and and meet up and um you know, create like a a statewide community where people can share information and ideas and resources. Now that's been cut. >> The NOA is was partly private. It's mostly a nonprofit private organization, but they were receiving some funding for a certific field certifier salary. >> Okay. >> From the state department of agriculture and when they did cuts a couple years ago, I guess they cut out that salary, but then NOA increased its um membership fee. Do you recall that? increased their membership fee on the stratified level for certain income brackets and uh now they're more privatized than ever which might be okay in the long run. I don't know. >> Yeah, >> they're located in Montpielar by the way 15 Berry Street. >> So that concludes the first part of Focus's series on farming an issue directly concerning Chittent County. Hopefully this segment on commu community supported agriculture and specifically the innervale community farm has sparked an interest for you. Hopefully it's begun to restore somewhat your hope as it has mine that we can actually have traditional valued relationships between the farmer and the community as well as between the consumer and the food we eat. Welcome to part two of focus. I'm Patricia Brain. Today we're going to continue our series on farming. It's June 1992 and in this segment we continue to focus on community supported agriculture as we join Bonnie Aker and her 2-year-old daughter Dia [music] at the Intervale Community Farm in Burlington, Vermont. >> Yeah. >> And then planting out here from May on a wonderful life cycle. Where else could a 2-year-old plant thousands of seeds and then see them all be set out as plants and then harvest them. Potatoes went a couple weeks ago. 400 lb of potatoes. And that was just the kind of day we like down here. 400 lb of potatoes. And you know who got to put some in the ground? >> You did. And do you know what Tim said? Tim said with the rain in the last few days, the potatoes have come up above the earth. So that's what we're going to do. >> We're going to go see them in one minute. And what else are we going to do down there? Tie up the fences for the peas. And can you say what you and Addison picked on Saturday? What did you and Addison pick lots of >> radishes? She and a six-year-old picked a couple hundred radishes on Saturday. >> And how did you know which radishes to pick? >> Big. >> Big radishes. And Alyssa said they had to be above the ground a little bit. Was that right? Yeah. You and Addison picked big piles of radishes. >> She's a little sad because we usually have garbanzo beans here. We ran out without the daily dose of garbanzo beans. She's sad. And what else are we going to see down there? Raspberry bushes. And are we going to see if there are any blossoms on the raspberry bushes? Because first come the blossoms and then come the raspberries. Every day down here pretty much we have garbanzo beans, tofu, cabbage, carrots, and other parents say to me, they say, "How do you get your daughter to eat green vegetables?" And I say, "Well, when you start them on a farm at one years old, all the harvesting she did last summer when she was just one, and then if you let them work months in a greenhouse, months in the fields, they see everything from the seed to the plant to picking bags of Swiss chard." And she loves it. The whole process, it's it's really quite remarkable. She'll eat any combination of greens, parsley, beets, squash, >> tofu, tofu juice. >> Tofu juice. And I think it's because she has planted them from the seed and seen them grow up and she also associates growing with a really remarkable group of people. You know, Tim and the two interns here, Alyssa and they're they are wonderful people. And she sees Alyssa drive the tractor. I mean, what a role model, you know, a woman driving the tractor. She sees people fixing things. About three weeks ago, one of the other farmers needed to turn the tiller to be centered. And we helped Ian fix the tiller, didn't we? Remember what you got to do? >> A bolt. >> You hammered out the bolts. And that took about an hour of figuring out which bolts. And she hammered out the bolts. And then we turned around that iron piece. And then we hammered the bolts back in, didn't wean? And was very happy to have some company fixing something. We talked about that how nice it is to have company when you're fixing something. So, it's like it's agriculture here. It's animals, it's birds, it's all the plants, it's different people every day. And it's quite remarkable. And we we sometimes get other mothers and kids to come. There are a few friends. One comes Mondays, one tries to come Wednesdays or Thursdays. And uh we'd love it over this summer to get more regulars here with young kids because there's no environment in Burlington that's so diverse for people growing things, picking things. We picked berries till mid November last year and that just sold us on this place. Never seen kids enjoy themselves more picking berries >> until mid November. Now what is Alysa doing? What is she doing driving her tractor? There's no better role model than Alyssa on the track. That rose. That's why you That's stuck there. >> You telling Patricia that that's stuck. have to uh we need more space. >> Jim, we're going to need more eggs, >> but we've got all this tighter so that these will really grow up. Now, these this is a really good germination rate here. These are not so good, but this is fabulous. We like a good germination rate. We'll save this. And now, sweetheart, would you like to show Patricia where the radishes are? >> This is Patricia, and she is >> Where is it? >> Oh, don't unless you're going anyway. >> Well, actually, it' be great because these are all climbing up. The Okay, just let me tie up this last little segment here. So, it's really tight. My heavens, look how the peas are already >> grabbing on here. >> Look. You want to show Patricia where the radishes are? >> Where the >> where the radishes are. Can I >> where the pea plants are? Where the radishes are? That's the one around the You like to put it right here. >> Okay. You want to put that one in the >> net? Putting that in there. I taught Anderson, the six-year-old on Saturday, a square knot to do this. He was so thrilled. This was a six-year-old neighbor we brought. He was just thrilled learning a new a new skill. >> You know how kids love to learn something new. Look, this is much tighter. Much tighter. All the way to the end. Where are the radish? Wow, look at this. Look at that. That is the first Fore in the cloud. purple. Come on. Let's have more beautiful radishes. No, just the white part. I was think that's very good. The white is very mild. The red So delicious. I can't believe there's so much water. That's spicy. Oh, it is spicy. You like spicy. Let's find a real purple one. that doodle red, a real fuchsia, and a real ivory. All organic. And if you see some bug bites, you know your crop is healthy because the bugs are eating it. You have a beautiful bunch of radishes. Thank you. Thank you, lovely one. I just love >> that is I think the biggest radish I've ever seen. That is the biggest radish. Look at that radish. Can you believe that? No. Crack. Well, has a little crack. That's got a little too big, but that is gorgeous. See the little crack? When radishes get really big, they get a crack, but still tastes delicious. This is a riot. You see any purple ones? Where's a purple one? Most of these are red ones. Oh, I see a purple one. Thank you, sweetheart. Want to give her one of these right now? here. Thank you. It's really nice to share with people. When everybody gets some radishes, then everybody's very happy. You're watching Focus. I'm Patricia Brain. It's June 1992. We're visiting the Intervale Community Farm in Burlington, Vermont, one of approximately 600 CSAs across the country. In this final portion of our show, we'll be speaking further with intern Merrick Hoben to get a close look at a global perspective on the state of agriculture. >> I want I want you to tell me if you can as what your opinion is on the the state of agriculture in in the world in general. the state of agriculture in the world in general. Uh it's a pretty broad question and I think it could be answered like in so many different ways. Um my initial opinion is completely emotional. I think uh I think it's terrible. I think um in general as first world nations go we we practice a way of food production which is unsustainable for the And that things need to rapidly change because the results have been such incredible environmental degradation um soil base of water resources that if we don't change soon we're going to lose the base which allows us to grow productively at least in this nation specifically. And uh I'm vitally concerned that unless we do realize that uh the cycle of our food growth has to be a closed one in which um it's not a losing battle with our resources then we're all going to very soon reach a much lower quality of life. So I'm very concerned and that's the main spark why I'm involved in or starting to be involved in farming. >> What about this uh sustainable? You use the word sustainable as opposed to supported. What is your how would you differentiate? >> You mean community supported agriculture and sustainable egg? >> Yeah. I think the differences are really sort of uh quite basic just by the language that we just stated. uh starting with community supported that's that's the way in which uh a farming system is uh is financially based uh socially based really in which the community is involved both uh financially and uh physically with the uh food production taking place on the farm. Uh sustainable agriculture in my mind has to do with with the actual uh principles of the farm. Whether or not it is a farming system, a farming organism which uh can continue in and of itself, but uh is not taking away from the natural resource base, but in fact um is part of it and is indefinitely able to function. >> That's what I think the difference is and >> right they can can they be used together? >> Well, absolutely. And I think as a matter of speaking about the condition of agriculture in this nation and the world it's it's environmental sustainability. Those two elements must combine to some degree because at the level that we are producing uh food it's generally considered to be unsustainable based on the points I made about the exploitation of water resources uh soil resources etc and the fact that uh farming in itself is becoming such an increasingly corporate mechanism instead of a community one where you have only the largest farms producing the greatest percentage of the food. So I think uh I think that's really one of the only answers that that's available to us right now is to bring uh farming really back to the people and believe me I I can't even begin to tell you how that process would come about linearly but it needs to be brought back to the community level and it needs to be brought back to a sustainable level and uh neither one of those factors is predominant in agriculture right So I'm concerned. >> Yeah, >> it's much easier to have a sustainable system on a smaller scale. And I think that's been the real downfall of of our nation's agricultural trends has been its growth in size, which has uh led to such a massive scale of resource use that there's no way we could avoid uh exploiting um resource base. So I think Vermont is but as any major agricultural state could take heed to the fact that if we want to have a continue to have a sustainable uh farming system or rather develop one because I don't think we have one right now. We're going to have to uh bring farming down onto a smaller scale and it's going to have to based uh much more so on sustainable principles of of ecology. And uh neither one of those things holds true right now. Vermont is probably not a really good example of adopting sustainable egg techniques per se. Uh because ineligibly I would say that it's a big dairy state. Vermont is and although we do grow some grains for for uh cow herds, we import most of them as I know from u from other states from the Midwest and from Southern California. So uh I think it's sort of more of a relevant statement to those areas of the country where they grow you know the big three rice, soybean and corn on massive scales of thousands of acres and that type of production is which could take great lessons in sustainability. >> What what do you think what direction do you think Vermont has to go in terms of agriculture? Uh right now Vermont is in a very uh precarious state um because dairy farming is in fact uh something that's on its way out in in Vermont. Not because people aren't interested, but frankly because it's become economically infeasible. Uh the state traditionally grow uh produces milk on a much smaller scale than just about anywhere else in the country. Uh the largest percentage of milk uh produced in the United States now comes from California and southwest Texas, no longer the northeast as it was in the early 19th century, early 20th century. So I think if Vermont agriculture wants to survive, it can no longer stay dairy. It has to diversify, which is really a tribute to sustainability anyway to to becoming a much broader farming system where our dependencies aren't just on, you know, milk and cows, but in fact an increase in uh in forestry and smallcale uh vegetable produce, these type of things, and even even maybe some grains like alalfa or something to that effect. But the basic point being that we can't compete with the with the uh massive corporate producers of dairy products in the Midwest and California. There's just nothing we can do. We're being forced out by lower prices. So, we have to diversify, which in a way is moving towards sustainability. And as a matter of that point, I think that is just proof of the pudding that that uh economic sustainability and ecological sustainability um do have something in common. And then uh do you feel that community supported agriculture as is being done here at the interale this valuable that that each community ought to be doing this sort of thing? Uh I think that uh community sustainable supported agriculture is is a is a relatively new concept and will probably continue to be refined um you know as the years go by. I don't know how it applies or could apply to different communities. Certainly it's not applicable everywhere uh you know based on the demographics of you know parts of the state or other areas. Vermont is one of the most rural states in the nation which uh makes me think that it has a lot of possibilities to support communities and also to support uh a lot of the more um destitute uh parts of society here that aren't as well off and would want to improve their quality of life by you know improving the way they eat uh the way they live and I think that you know organic communities supported agriculture is a is a great way of doing that and I think the innervale is an example um I'd like to think that it would it would be adopted and be something positive for other parts of the state Um, and I hope it happens. >> Yeah, it is hard to tell. Yeah, I think the Interval has been a success now, but I've only been here for a number of months and uh I'm just starting to really under get a feeling for how it really works. Um, and I agree with the principles. I just like to see what the outcome is. And right now I don't I don't know what what its real uh potential is. It's hard to you know to just to bring people in from the community to invest in the farm because here you have to buy a share uh in the farm and then you receive uh your bi-weekly, you know, food pickups for the next 18 weeks. But I don't know. We're having such problems with membership. It seems that um it poses some real problems and some questions about how to make it more of a functional and you know effortless type of uh place and and idea >> farm. Anyway, >> thank you very much. >> Yeah.