Firefox Is Going to WIN! (Not Really)

[music] Hey everybody, welcome to Linux Cast. I'm your host Matt. >> I'm Nate. >> And I'm Drew. >> Welcome to the most subdued podcast you've ever heard of in your life. Uh, I think I think that uh our pre-show wasn't much of a pre-show as much of as a pre-silence, but we are going to carry on. We have a podcast for you. So, we're going to do a news episode for y'all tonight. Uh, we have some some good links. I have no clue what Nate posted, so we're just going to wing those. Uh but just to begin with, we apologize for the the like half of these being like all AI related, but um that was kind of what >> what's in the news, Matt. >> It's it was all AI generated. All I know. [laughter] So what do I supposed to know? Claude did it for me. Uh [laughter] I should You know what? That's actually a good idea. Wesley. What I should have done was ask Claude for some links. All right. Anyways, uh but before we jump into the news, we do have a our our easiest mini topic that we ever do and that's uh what have you been up to lately? And it can be like within the last few weeks cuz it's, you know, whatever. So, Drew, what have you been up to lately? >> I put out a video literally 5 minutes ago, 15 minutes ago, something like that. Because Matt and I are in a challenge, and I intend to at least do my part in this challenge. So, uh, put out a video about self-hosting. I went from codeberg to self-hosting. Okay. As a server for my git, uh, projects. And yes, that took an enormous amount of time this week. Uh, getting things switched over. I mean, because Matt, I didn't know if you know this, I have like a DRO to maintain. >> Really? >> Yes. What is I'm gonna regret this, but what what is the district called, Drew? I [laughter] >> We'll get to that. Okay. So, um, so anyway, there was a lot that had to be done in associated with like moving everything off of it. And so, the end result is I have something called Butter Forge. It is at just agu.dev. See the video if you are interested at all. And uh yeah, there you go. >> Cool. Just on a side note, did you go forth and snag all of the Butter Forge URLs? >> So, I have butterf.org and butterforge.dev. And that is all. >> I just wanted to make sure. [laughter] Don't want anybody to park on your domain there, man. >> And then I'm doing a URL redirect to uh just a guy. >> Yeah. All right. name. I know man that you are exhausted but you have to have done something interesting in the last like two months. Uh what you got? >> Uh where do I start? Um of course my my business has also been expanding on top of the fact that I actually just took a job at a local high school to be the part-time IT educator. So I've been getting ready for that for this weekend. Students are actually going to be there Thursday. So, I get the uh joy of this wig being absolutely slammed. But as far as Linux is related, it's kind of related, but my Linux machine is completely off. And you probably can't tell, but there's actually a monitor missing. >> The uh purge has begun. >> It's a sad sad day. >> I see. I don't think he was actually like tired. I think he was just weeping somewhere. Was like I had to give up a >> He was mourning. surprising not dressed all in black. [laughter] Oh man, poor Nate. [laughter] >> Okay, let me just say this though. Respect for uh educating our young about tech though. I think that having somebody like Nate to do these types of uh classes is just I would imagine that they're incredibly lucky. >> Yeah. Um, just make sure you teach them that Pop OS is in fact the best DRO. >> Oh, it's already in the lesson plan. J. You ain't gota worry about that. [laughter] I got a whole month about Linux. >> You got to let one day is just all on Da Vinci Resolve. [laughter] >> You can bring your plaque in there as well. All right. Uh, so yeah, today today I guess it was today I set up uh Home Assistant for the first time. No. >> And um I talked last week about how we got a couple cameras. So I got a couple real link cameras and those have home assistant capabilities and you can you can do everything in home assistant including update the firmware which was really surprising to me. Um cuz I just you can you can pan them and turn do all the settings. Um I I I was going to do it through a a Docker container cuz I do everything through a Docker container, but I set up my new home lab this last week as well. while I moved away from those Lenovo Think Centers that I was talking about to a HP Victus um like little mini small form factor computer and uh I put Nixos on it as the server droing thing. So I'm still using Docker for a lot of things but I used I used the home or the Nyx OS module for Home Assistant and it was surprisingly easy to set up it. It just, you know, you fill out all the information, set up a couple ports, and wham, bam, it it was just up and running. I I I do have some GOI lights or whatever that are supposedly Home Assistant capable. I could not get those to work. Uh I'm assuming they're just too old. They've been around forever. They just don't have the the capability to actually connect the way they need to. But other than that, the cameras were shockingly easy. I thought it was going to be hard. Like, I thought I going to spend all day. It was just like set it up, [clears throat] enter the password, and there they are. That was really good. So now I need more smart home stuff. That's [laughter] the That's the problem is I'm going to have to get some more. I got to fill out the dashboard, man. Now it feels too empty. All right. So, uh, I think that's it for the mini topic. We'll go ahead and move on to the first news item of the day. So, Drew, why don't you take us with the first one? I don't care which one you do, which way you want to go. Um, let's just go with the one, first one on my list, which is Rexom AFC and Firefox. Okay. Mozzilla announced on July 8th that Firefox is Rexom's AFC, Rexom AFC's front of the kit sponsor and official web browser partner starting this season on both the men's and women's teams. My god, I'm a I'm a soccer guy, guys, and I know that not everybody is that's watching our pod right now. But at the same time, this is an interesting aside, especially from looking at it from the uh from the Firefox perspective. They used to be Rexom used to be a United Airlines had had a United Airlines uh sponsorship and Mozilla didn't disclose the money um how much they were like using but it was probably at least 10 million pounds a year uh maybe 20 if they get promoted and the business case is real. Uh Rexom pulled $33 million in revenue while still in League One. So, League One for those of you is the uh basically third tier uh in English football. So, I I just wanted to mention that this this team is also owned by Ryan Reynolds. So, or any of you guys that uh are interested in that either. So, um, Mosilla has spent the better part of a decade launching things like that nobody has really asked for and like VPN and a password relay and an ad network and an AI sidebar and whatever Pocket was supposed to be during its time. Um, everyone of them has arrived with a blog post like this one about the open web and left without a new blog post. So, there's something genuinely funny about the fact that the first thing to land in years is a shirt, not a product, not a feature. It's on fabric. So millions of people are about to look at the Firefox logo on a Welsh soccer team's chest and think about Firefox for the first time maybe in in the last 15 years. So Mo Mosilla has actually done something right as far as I'm concerned in how they are advertising their browser. >> Okay. So >> I know this is such a huge [laughter] thing. So the the problem I have is that I underestimate the popularity of, you know, football. You know, as the rest of the world calls it, real football, right? Cuz, you know, I'm a I'm an American. [laughter] Our football isn't played with feet. It's played with, you know, it's it's past. So, um, I have a hard time. So, for you, Drew, you feel like this is a huge deal. For me, it feels like, you know, so some little college, you know, football team from over yonder or I I know I'm I'm being deliberately obtuse. [laughter] >> Yeah. So that's I think that that's that's where my disconnect came in was like this feels like such a small thing when but if I were British or I liked you know soccer. Um I I feel like I'd have much more better like knowledge of you know how big a deal this actually is. Do we know? I wonder if we because this feels like Firefox's first foray into actually promoting itself in for forever. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I So this I'm going to un So this is smart. I'm just going to go out on a limb and just say this is a really stinking smart idea. and for you Matt not to un you know to to to you know this is a very kind of global um initiative for them not just is it big in England or whatever but if you're a gamer and which I'm not but I have played uh it used to be called FIFA it's now called what FC26 it's it's made by EA Sports Rexom is big in the game um for these online gamers they may not know anything about soccer like actually on the pitch or on the field, but they do know that Rexom's a part of FC26 or in FC27 coming up. So, this is a big deal where this could be seen by maybe a billion people at some point. Who knows? I don't I don't I'm not going to have the numbers. Okay. I will say that this is a smart advertisement for a stupid organization that has broken so many kind of like trusts with the Linux and just open-source community as a whole. But if you want to put your logo in front of people, this is this is a good way to do it. So smart idea from a dumb organization. >> Okay, Nate, you have thoughts on this? A broken clock is at least right twice once a day. Anyways, I I don't really have much of about it. It is good in the fact that technically it's a false software that is getting exposed billions wide, but at the same time, it's Mozilla. I don't know if I can support this. I'm sorry, Drew. [laughter] >> I mean, okay, you're not wrong. I I think that, like I said, I don't want to take up [laughter] I know that this is such a niche thing. I'm looking at the chat, but the chat has got crickets. There's crickets. I can literally hear crickets from the freaking chat right now and from my co co uh podcast co-host. So, um when it comes right down to it, this I think is probably we only time will tell. We will see whether this makes sense at all. But for them to like reinvest some of this Google money into promoting their brand in something that to me is very visible uh not just like I said in the UK but maybe globally is uh is a move that they have never done before and uh and good luck because I man we all want Firefox we all want Mozilla to succeed. They have burned a lot of bridges but you know [laughter] you know Somebody freaking saved these guys, you know. >> But you know that is that is my problem though. Like they have burned so many bridges. >> If it was literally even if it was just Libri Fox or something or I don't know. >> Yeah, but they don't have the money. I mean Libra Wolf is is something completely I mean we're talking about a 600 billion sorry $600 million. You know they make $600 million a year. 85% of it is from Google. reinvest that money a little bit so that you get your browser out there. And and you know what? I know this is a dollar and cents thing. If you get more people, you make more money. Okay? I mean, that's just the way it is. So, if Firefox gets in front of people, they're going to make a little bit more of that Google money and they can buy another yacht for their sea suite. So much the better. [snorts] Maybe here's the way I'll choose to look at just because I want to be the optimistic guy for you know once. Maybe this is their the precursor to more. You know what I mean? uh where this feels like a you first I mean maybe the next thing they'll sponsor is a NFL stadium or something or um I don't think they have that kind of money but you know they could sponsor you know something that's start running some advertisements on on billboards and stuff like that cuz I mean I think we all agree that for the for the last 10 years it felt like they've done literally nothing maybe I mean it feels like we've been burned by this many times before, but maybe this is is a sign of something that because I mean they do have a brand new uh CEO >> Mhm. >> and and chairman and stuff like that. So maybe they're finally like, you know, we have to put the name out there somehow and this is just the start of something that's much bigger. That would be cool. Um whether whether or not it moves the needle, I don't know. I I know they have a big redesign coming of the browser itself pretty soon. It just entered the the nightly builds. It's a complete redesign of the browser. So that's interesting if they can start putting that forward and say, "Hey, look at us. We're still here." Can one last thing on this, this is the I mean, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is the best decision Mosilla has made in 5 years and it has nothing to do with software. Okay? It has nothing to do with software because this is the first coherent marketing strategy that I've seen from them ever. Ever. I mean, so yeah, this this the reason why I wanted to put this in front of people was because of this. It has nothing to do with software. Has everything to do with them doing something right. >> So, can I ask you a question? It's just going to be the logo, right? >> Yeah. >> How many people know what the logo is? >> Well, I mean, I I don't know what the logo is going to look like. I don't know if there's going to be any type of And maybe maybe I missed it in the in the article, but uh I don't know if there's any going to be any type of like um text associated with it at all. But, uh yeah, I mean, someone would have to maybe go out of their way and go, "That's a cool logo. What is that?" >> Yeah. So yeah, >> like that's that's my worry is like they they'll have that really cool logo on it and like the the Gen Zers and the the Gen Alphas or whatever like that have no clue what Firefox actually is. Like oh that's a pretty logo but I have no clue what it represents. >> There will be people that will go Rexom cool Ryan Reynolds cool logo cool and they'll wear it. They'll rep it and they'll you know I think that this like I said I don't know what they're spending it could be as much as 20 million but well worth it. Well worth it. >> All right. Uh Nate, your first link. >> I have to remember what I put down. Oh, >> it was five minutes ago. [laughter] >> Yeah. No, I want to do the Open UK. >> Okay. >> So, Open UK wants Britain to stop giving away open-source creations. Uh Open UK p recently published its AI openness report and buried inside of this 40page document is a big big ass from the UK government. Basically, it wants foundation that holds the code and governance standards the way the Linux Foundation does in the US. So, if you hearing that name for the first time, OpenUK is UK based nonprofit advoc advocates for open technology and it's led by somebody called Amanda Brock. I don't know them, but basically they're they're trying to get I just lost some train of thought. So basically they're they're trying to handle it through uh would hold repository standards database sets built with the UK public money rather than watch that work migrate to servers and governance boards based elsewhere. It would also handle training, community engagement and event organizing and those are the areas otherwise that need separate infrastructure according to them. And open UK frames this as a funding and governance gap more than a technology one. And apparently from what they say that UK is bleeding open source. I don't know the statistics on that. I as I was reading this I just thought it was a really interesting especially since the UK is technically out of the European Union. It's just a really interesting way of the of them trying to approach I guess the false side for that country. So it was a it was a really interesting article. >> Yeah, it's it'd be in it's honestly the first time I've ever thought of the Linux Foundation being like America only. >> Like I didn't Me too. I I just kind of thought it was a a universal thing because I mean like like there's a lot of like British companies and stuff like that are associated with it. But if you think about if you go look at their sponsors or whatever I guess it makes sense because like the big ones are like Google and Microsoft and Open AI and you know probably Apple. I don't know about that. But the, you know, the whole bunch of big American corporations, some I guess it makes sense that the the companies or whatever, you know, that are outside of the sphere of America have with would like some kind of representation uh for open source as well. Um it it'd be interesting to see how this it says that the EU is doing something very similar to this as well. Yeah, the European Commission, uh, they're they're basically trying to I I guess in a way to break our dominance on the tech side of it, but I mean, I never looked at I never really looked at Linux and False as like a US thing. But I guess kind of maybe I don't know. Maybe it's just because of the way our laws are because it is our laws. I guess maybe >> I think it it's it's weird because the like um Canonicle is British, right? I mean, >> Right. Yeah, 100%. >> It feels like maybe they'd have something like this already. Drew, you got thoughts on this? >> I I think that the UK is way out in front. I don't know about way out. That's might be overstating in terms of their contribution to Foss when it comes to all the European countries. I think that open UK's position is that Britain is bleeding open source and um Britain gave away something under a permissive license and is now upset that giving it away worked, you know. So I I I think that um you know sovereign open source is a bit of a contradiction until you notice that every foundation already has a jurisdiction a tax status and a set of export laws it answers to and there's no view from uh from nowhere. So there's just somebody else's somewhere you know I don't this is a I wish I had a little bit more time to really kind of like deep dive into this one. I I'm very interested in this one, Nate. Actually, >> I wonder >> the 40 40page PDF I'm I'd have to read, but >> yeah, me too. >> I wonder if there's going to be any sort cuz it's still it still amazes me how ineffectual the Linux Foundation actually feels like when it comes to all sorts of things. Like if it's not exactly corporate related, the Linux Foundation just isn't there. It'll be because I mean it if I asked you guys to to name the top five bastions of open-source software, the the the organizations that actually like stand up for open source. Would the Linux Foundation actually be in your top five list? I know it wouldn't be in mine, >> right? It'd be interesting to see if the like the British and EU implementation of that idea works better for actually championing their open source than ours does because ours doesn't feel like it champions open source at all really. I mean, yeah, it pays Linus and but outside of that, what what does the Linux Foundation actually do that benefits anything that's not a major corporation? Go ahead, N. Well, even I feel like MIT would be a better option than the Linux Foundation when it comes to false because of how how much stuff that they've actually pumped out through the false license as well. So, I mean, >> yeah. So, I'm going to say something very naive here. Um, >> go ahead. >> But you guys are like, "What else is new?" [laughter] Uh I I think my biggest problem is that my my lens is always through desktop Linux and and in in relative scheme of things, desktop Linux isn't very big, but it always feels to me like if you're going to have something that is very because I mean at the heart of open source, at least for us, it feels like community is the biggest thing, right? It's the driver be behind a lot of the stuff that we do. And I suppose more on a broad scale that's not true because everything else is very much about money and stuff like that just like it always is. But it still feels to me like a a better foundation model would be something that is communityrun that has less corporate influence than something like this and even less governmental influence. But it would be so ineffectual because there'd be no money behind it. Right? And one of the reasons why uh anything that the British do or the EU you do would have some kind of maybe teeth behind it would be because it's more sponsored by government and maybe even some corporations. Same as the Linux Foundation. Whereas if we we had my ideal like oh you know just a bunch of random nerds on a on a committee somewhere. I mean [laughter] really it' just be a fancy lug you know there'd be no there'd be there'd be nothing there for for them to actually accomplish. Um, which is which again, that's the reason why I said it was was naive. So, um, anything else on this one before we move on? No. No. All right. So, speaking of corporations, we'll just go ahead and do this one. So, uh, Nvidia, Red Hat, Cloudflare, uh, the Linux Foundation, and a ton of other companies. I mean, there's a there's a whole list here. Adobe, Cisco, Cloudera, Cognition, Cloud Strike, which is great to see their name in in thing. Dell, whole bunch of of companies anyways have come together decide and launched the open secure AI alliance which is uh I mean it's interesting because there's a lot of open source there there's a few open- source companies on this list. There's a lot of companies on here that are very much not open source and they've all come together to try to create a coalition to foster at least some open uh AI cooperation between not only them but amongst people who are part of the coalition. And what I what strikes me about this fellas is that first off it feels like uh shutting the door behind the horses after they've already been you know they've run away like a year ago. You know like AI has been let loose. It's not going to be open source. You know the the the winner here is going to be you know Anthropic or Microsoft or Google or somebody like that. and they are yeah they can promise to be open and transparent but are are they going to really I don't know these types of things always come so like they they a lot of times we'll we'll we'll get a story where big corporations are going to come together and work on a standard you know like uh the the the matter standard for like home the home uh assistant kind of stuff right that took 15 years to actually show any fruit and still you go buy something that is for your for your your smart home, it's 50/50 whether or not it actually works with matter. This feels kind of like the same thing. Like yeah, they all say they're going to cooperate and and do something. Whether or not it actually happens, I don't know. So, uh, what are your guys' thought on this? Drew, you want to talk? I see this list and I'm thinking 37 companies formed a safety alliance and one month by the way after the Linux Foundation formed a different safety alliance for the same exact problem and now you've got all these people that want to jump on board and become part of the uh they want their post they want their name on the poster you know what I mean and so it's funny because when you look at it it's like this list like Door Dash is now a founding member of the AI Safety Alliance. And I've read that I read that sentence, I don't know, like 12 times, and I thought, Door Dash is a founding member [laughter] of the AI Safety Alliance. I'm like, what the heck does that mean? And you know what? This this reads like a list of of like uh super villains, you know, in your comic book, you know? It's like here let's let's let's make all these guys uh IBM, Microsoft, uh Nvidia, Red Hack, Cloud. This is your list of super of super villains that have that want to be part of this safety alliance. And it it it has everything to do with how it looks from the outside looking in, guys. It has nothing to do with like anything else. And for anyone to actually feel a different way is just delusional. So, does anybody want to bet whether or not the press release for this was actually written by AI? [laughter] It probably was. All right, Nate, what do you got on this? >> Two companies. First of all, Adobe and Microsoft. So, no, it's not going to be open source whatsoever just for a simple fact that, you know, I'm not trying to get on a Microsoft hate train tonight, but like, think about it. They've supposedly tried to make they're trying to make Microsoft more open source and yet you still can't really get to the kernel. Uh Adobe claims that they're working on something. They're not. They're just waiting for somebody else to figure it out. Then they'll lock it down again. But the I don't know this. First of all, what is a hugging face? What is that? >> It's a AI agent, isn't it? Is that what it is? It's I didn't I didn't read the AI thing. I I I saw the headline about the hugging face um earlier, but we identified the unauthorized limited access to the internal set of databases used credentials. The AI community building the future is is what they what they call it. So, it's something AI. >> Yeah, >> it's a AI it's a AI repository from what I can see. >> Yeah, but >> it's like a meta thing. >> Yeah, I have zero use for that whatsoever. And I don't know it I guess I don't have much comment cuz it >> it's just one of those things the companies are getting together and you're looking at these companies like yeah this is absolutely this is this is what would be an Austin Powers of companies all sitting around the table and one saying $1 million you know [laughter] >> alliances don't form because somebody had a good idea they form because somebody got embarrassed okay or or somebody got their pants pulled down at in at the uh you know at the park or something like that and got their little butt smacked. Okay, somebody lost money along somewhere along the way and somebody and these companies want to avoid future embarrassment by being part of this alliance, you know. So, yeah, this is this is posturing at its best. >> Yeah, exactly. It will be in I don't even know if it will be interesting, but it it will be there there's going to be a news article six months or a year from now where there's either another foundation that's created just because they need it in the news again or this one gets disbanded, something like that. So, it we we talked a little bit about uh open- source AI in the past and how good of an idea it is, but I'm I'm at the point now where it's just it's [clears throat] no, it's just we're not there. There's no open-source like like entity that is that has enough money or infrastructure to actually put forth their own AI. Like even like any open source like Canonical or Red Hat probably would use an AI agent or a AI model written and controlled by another company that just has the infrastructure to go along with it. And that's just going to be the you can't have open in that ecosystem. It has there's just too much money needed and most FOS companies can't keep up with it. Um and there's a whole bunch of technological stuff there too why it can't be. Nate, go ahead. >> Well, I was just going to say even even then like Red Hat and Canonicle and all them, it's the biggest problem that they have. So, for example, Microsoft whenever they're doing their AI, they're doing it for their operating system to go to the user, right? But with Canonical and Red Hat, it's going to be for their business. They're not going to think about an enduser. So that's probably the biggest reason why we won't ever see I won't say ever, but it may take a long time before we actually see something good come out of a false AI related connection just because of the simple fact that they're they're going to be centered towards their thing and that's it. Well, then any any you know consumerbased uh AI thing from a FOS organization is going to be everything that we've seen so far has been very specifically tailored towards certain use cases like uh whisper for example like like that that's specifically for text to speech you know what I mean that's that that's the use case that it's used for and a lot that's a lot of the tools that we do see that are open source are very specifically ta very specifically tailored like that and I I think part of that is because if Ubuntu did come out and say, you know what, we're we're putting a whole AI model on the ISO. First off, it would triple the ISO size or they'd have to have it all set up to so it goes towards a server somewhere, which people would also freak out about. So, I mean I mean I I think that the we did that um we did that lug the other day, right? and we talked about AI a lot and a lot of the comments were like, you know, not going to, you know, uh I I don't like AI at all. We're not I'm not putting anything in there. There's a whole bunch of negative comments about AI. And it's really hard for the Foss organizations, the the at least the the corporations that deal with FOs to thread the needle between AI is the future. half of our people who who use this hate AI. You know what I mean? There there's a very specific, you know, very, you know, rocky path that they have to walk there in order to actually get where they probably need to go. And that's just because of public perception. Now, granted, the half the people who care about AI are in using desktop Linux, and most of these companies don't give a damn about desktop Linux. So, they can they can just ignore those people for the most part. So, there's that. Uh, Drew, your second one. >> Yeah, let me let me can I ask let me throw one more thing about this one before we move on. And it's that I've I understand and I'm I don't know the answer, guys. So, if don't burn the message, >> the one thing that I thought was interesting, I think it's over the last week or two, is Kimmy K3 um coming out and being as wellought of as a new model. Um, I don't understand how open it is. I know that there is some open aspects to it. I don't know if it's more along the lines of like Vivaldi's kind of like stance on where their code is or anything. So, I'm just throwing that out as something that you may be interested in at all. I don't have the answer to that, but I know that Kimmy K3 has some openness. I guess maybe that's the best way to frame it, guys. So anyway, moving on. My second article is uh has to do with Cobberg. Um and I put a video out today as I mentioned earlier and it bans AI generated projects. Okay. The uh Cobberg annual member assembly voted on two AI motions. The first never train models on hosted code or user data passed easily. The second was the fight. It had to do with a termsofuse amendment banning projects that mostly consist of AI generated code and it passed 358 to 144 with 14 obscensions and on about 50% turnout. The new clause uh actually names Claude and Open AI codeex specifically and keyword is mostly. This isn't a blanket ban. A human project taking the occasional LLM patch is fine and there's no mass purge coming, but enforcement is case by case. And the stated reason isn't purely ideological. Codeberg says that SSDs that used to cost them around 700 uh euro or pounds I don't know what but and run and now are now 3700 and while AI crawlers and vibecoded uh repo sprawl eat their CI and their storage bu budget the same assembly also banned crypto projects. So in this uh article you're going to see that um what they did how it played out the questions that I have is how enforcable is it? You know how will they know? Uh, the one thing that I mentioned also in the video that I put put out was Matt and I talked about this maybe two weeks ago, knowing how challenging it is to actually run your projects on Codeberg when they have issues with uptime as well as speed. And one of the things that we have to take away from this is that the amount of ma the massive amount of new code coming by way of people running their own LLMs and creating FOS projects. I know that I'm not alone in using um AI to help me tool something. Okay. But if you're if you're throwing out, you know, project after project after project and you are a Codeberg member, they cannot scale like GitHub can scale. That's just a fact. You've got a bunch of volunteers. You've got a limited budget. Um the servers, the bandwidth, all that stuff costs money, money, money. So yes, I took my server I took my uh projects away from Codberg even though I am still like mirroring everything back to codeberg but I am not leaving codeberg as a contributing or a member uh that actually contributes money. I just thought from a server perspective I had better luck doing it myself. that that's that is you know so if I am interjecting here a little bit because it's a little bit beyond what the article is stating I apologize but uh that is the case >> Nate >> I'm more interested in this article and how are they really going to enforce this because >> like I to my knowledge there's not anything that says oh well this actually came from AI unless there's something truly embedded into the code that's that they could find in um file permissions or whatever that says, oh well here it is that that's AI. But like how are you going to enforce this whenever I don't know that's a really weird stance to take in my opinion and and I agree with the guy that said um I was reading it down here and it said I think it's a very bad move and people behind Cobbler should really consider their stance. I agree with this guy even though it's a part of a co-founder's AI whatever but the fact of the matter is like how you going to how you going to justify if somebody actually is doing the code and then you just ban them because you assume that it was AI generated like that I don't know >> that's weird to me >> it okay so I'm not a seasoned developer and I don't think any of the three of us would claim to be seasoned developers at all right >> uh Dro maintainer >> [laughter] >> Okay. Well, it's outside Drew. Okay. All right. But my my point is is is that from the from the the developers that I do know, a lot of them will tell you that at least in some form or fashion, a lot of AI code is very obvious. Now, as someone who doesn't know their code as well as, you know, someone who's been doing it for 20 years and someone who does use some, you know, AI code in some form or fashion, you know, it I don't see it as much. Um, but again, I don't have formal training, right? Like I I didn't go to school for it. I'm a I'm a I I studied history in college, guys. And that was, you know, a long time ago. So, it's it's hard for I'm with you. Like like in order to actually see that, you're going to have to have human people go into code and actually look at it and say, "Yeah, that's human code." But I think what we're going to do >> AI to [laughter] be hilarious. I I think what's actually happening is that there's some s there's some bad actors here that maybe not not even illentioned but people who use a significant amount of resources that are causing the problems and caused the change to begin with. It's not it's not just your random person who's opened a code account and has put up a couple projects that are all vibecoded. That's not I don't at least I don't think their target here you know it's really the people who are putting out hundreds of thousands of line of codes who've set up CI/CD for every single one of them you know who are running all using all the resources that are causing the problem. Um, and and I don't know how prevalent that is, but it's obviously causing problems because my my initial reaction to this wasn't, you know, well, here's another company going completely anti- AI. My full thought on it was if this is actually their problem like like like because because had so much downtime issues in the last year since I joined. I I don't know about before that. can't can't say, but since I joined, I guess it was earlier this year, they're down a lot. And when they're not down, they're slow. And if this is actually the problem, you know what? Okay. Like, like, but I I I I'm with you guys. Like, I don't know how what they're how how announcing this change is actually going to fix the issue, right? >> I don't think they can I don't think they can fix it. I think that this is a band-aid that has no no it's not going to work. Okay. um unless they actually have some kind of like um processes that identifies things and and to Nate's you know to answer the question you know there are ways to just like if you sit there and you're in claude code and you say uh commit this and it'll say okay here's your here's the statement it'll say co-authored by claude code and so it will it can tag things really in a in a way that uh you they'll they'll catch that, you know, obviously. I don't think that they're going to, though. I think this is a way to just say we can't handle this. The real story is, guys, they can't scale. Okay? They can't scale to the amount of servers and and and infrastructure that is necessary for them to actually maintain a project that has good stuff. Okay. GitHub can the repo the repo for GitHub is an asset to Microsoft. Okay, it provides a co-pilot training surface and GitHub has no reason to say no. It never it never will have a reason to for it to say no because of how much money they stand to gain for you hosting there. Okay, for Codeberg, a repo is a liability. Okay, storage, bandwidth, it's expensive as hell. They have volunteers working there. There's no revenue attached to it. None. So, every repo makes that balance sheet a little bit worse. It's unfortunate. It really is because the it has the best intentions. Uh, and that is why I'll continue to donate to the project even though I may not be serving up my my stuff there. So, there's two there's two places where this goes. The first the first one is the the more optimistic one is that um because of the upcoming federation by forjo which is what Codberg is based on. It might be able to if that were successful and they could federate it out so that you know is hosted by more than just themselves. That's that's in theory at least possible to take some of the strain off. I I don't think that's likely but it you know possible. But I think more likely code bird goes private like you have to invit in invitation only. Um you you in order to actually go there you have to sign up for an account that says but blatantly no AI and the only way you get that sign up is if you are recommended kind of like a fauceton did you know what I mean? like completely completely invitation only and and you know if you don't have an invite you don't get to you don't get to play would is that going to foster growth and put forth their message of you know being anti-GitHub and GitLab no but it solves the problem you know cuz because then once once they limit new signups they can they can they can start slowly going through the projects that they think are the offenders here and then you know they can you know say sorry you're using like 90% of or resources, you got to go. You know what I mean? But I I think that's where this goes. Like they you can no longer sign up for Codeberg without an invitation. Um and in order to get that invitation and actually sign up, you have to agree to to stringent terms of service that basically says you do this. There is actually a third option is that they severely limit resources. So um you can only have two CI/CD things going >> like that's it. um or you only get so much storage because right now in theoretic theoretically their storage is unlimited. They don't actually have a stated limit on storage which is it's buried but they never enforce it. I think to to Nate's point a lot of the stuff that they do they have in place is uninforceable and they don't enforce it. So yeah I think what you just said Matt is more like a more likely scenario. Um but I look forward to the day where uh the federation uh I mean that forjo has federated uh servers so that they can offload and if that is the case then I mean then great you know I'm ready for it. I'm ready for that. >> Yeah it's gonna it will be a slow process if that's the way that it works out. like if if federation is the the is the solution that they hope it will be it'll it will take some quite a bit of effort on on prior I mean really honestly what they need is and I know they don't want it is a a true corporate sponsor someone who is actually interested in their thing right and and they can provide them the money to survive um and they're exactly like Mastadon in in that situation they do not want corporate sponsors they don't they don't want to have that that influence But sometimes you just need money, man. And I think I think that that's it doesn't solve all their problems, but it would solve quite a bit of their problems being able to ramp up their infrastructure if they had somebody uh even if it was like a private donor, like just a really rich dude. Um who said, "Here, have some money." Um so rich, you know, if there's any rich dudes in the chat, throw your money at Codeberg and they could use it. All right. Uh Nate, your second uh link, please. >> So mine is Wayfire uh 0.11 Whinkling compositor adds better fractional scaling and HDR rendering. And now keep in mind if you're not someone that actually does creative work or if you're someone that doesn't game, this probably isn't for you. But it has a pretty good size uh release bringing improvements for fractional scaling by moving geometry handling to floating point numbers and enabling it in enabling [clears throat] HIDPI support for Xway applications uh which results in crisp and rendering. So crisp text and rendering that that is a problem sometimes especially on Linux uh even if you have a 4K monitor sometimes the text is just not right. Well, this fixes the issue to make it more clear because with the any combination of resolution and scale. So therefore, you can have like for example with cosmic I have you have your regular scaling. So there's 100% it does like 125 and it does 150 and it kind of goes from there. Correct. >> Well, also you could do additional. So you can do like 5% more, 10% more like it it it will do odd numbers. So, this will be a great improvement that will be added into the whaling compositor that will allow you to do way better fractional scaling. And with the HDR support, I mean, I I don't have any HDR content, so that part don't really affect me as much, but it would be a great thing for displays that can support it to be able to turn that on. And even if you're playing a game or if you're just watching YouTube and it has HDR content, that would be a really nice I guess a really nice visual improvement. Matt probably wouldn't care, but you know, it would look good. >> Well, I like I think that more window managers I'm going to call them window managers because compositors is a dumb thing to call them. I think more is always better. Like like uh there's a whole bunch of Xorg window managers that I don't use. Never have really cared for them all that much. I don't care that I I I pay attention to all their news. I want them all to succeed. I think because I think more is better. Um the the less emphasis we place on Hyperland as being the only Whan compositor, the absolute better offer will be. >> Yeah. >> Drew, your thoughts on this? >> Yeah, I I agree with that part, Matt, right there. [laughter] I even even though that you know Hyperland is super popular and everything I find it I find it awesome that this is probably a one guy project maybe I I don't know the answer to that but uh I would think it's a very small number of people that is working on this as a project and the fact that they are putting the effort into making uh their compositor um their Whan compositor like ship with like all these kind of like all this tooling that is probably better than something that Gnome or KDE has uh for a comparatively small WL root uh yeah WL roots project is impressive. It really is, you know. Um, so yeah, I haven't tried Wfire. Uh, I haven't tried Wfair Fire. Maybe it's time that I uh try. Maybe. >> I had I had a I had a mean thought there though. I was like, you ain't going to have this for a while because you're on Debian. Just Sorry. >> No, I mean, I'd have to try it like on a different machine that I actually don't do work on type thing. Yeah, >> it's fine. I was just being an [ __ ] >> Yeah. [laughter] >> All right. I thought we had an understanding, man. >> Well, blame the [ __ ] to each other. >> I'm I'm blaming you for the butter comments earlier, even though you weren't the one that made them. [laughter] >> Okay. >> All right. Uh the last one is the So I I know that we've we've covered a lot of AI stuff today. [snorts] Um but there's just a lot of that stuff going on. So the Linux kernel team published 432 uh CVEes in two days. And and that's a that's a that's by far a record. I I think this article says that they average around 60 I think is what they what they I think I think I read that somewhere. I might be pulling that number out of my ass and just misremembering. But yeah, that they're published across Sunday and Monday of the of this last week. And um that there's speculation that the reason why the number was so high was because of AI and and the AI code that um or the AI agent that the Linux kernel dev team has started to implement, which we talked about uh on the lug last week. the the complaints, at least the one guy that they talked to. The register is notorious for only talking to one person is like Rita Skeer in the Harry Potter novels. Um [laughter] they didn't bother going to actually talk to any other people really. I think I do believe they took sources from Nixcraft and uh they took a old quote from one of the Linux kernel developers wasn't actually uh current and were related to this actual uh topic. But the the general consensus is that this is a bad thing because there's so many and there's no possible way that the the Linux develop kernel team can actually you know keep up with that kind of workflow in terms of you know going over the CV see if it's how serious actually is solving the problem right if you have that many that they're coming in every two days there's no way you can possibly keep up with them right and that's true I mean I don't think anybody would disagree with that But would you rather not know? I I mean I mean that that's the question I have is like the the guy that they talked to this um what what was his name? Um I'm sorry. Schwallman. Schwamman. Um I don't know if I'm I'm I'm sure I'm mispronouncing that. Oh, so that guy um you know my question to that guy was like would you rather just have I mean just because you don't know that a CVE exists doesn't mean that the CV doesn't still actually exist like it's the the the the security problem is actually there you just don't know about it. So it be so even if you can't get through all of the list, I mean just ask KD and all their bugs. You I mean they'd rather know that the bugs exist than not know they exist even though they can't possibly get them all, you know, solved. At least that's the way that I would look at it. I'd much rather know uh that my, you know, roof is leaking than pretend that it doesn't. It's not going to solve the leak, but at least I know that it's happening. Um so that's that's that's my thought on this. Um what uh Drew, what about you? What do you think of this? >> I just want to make, you know, clarify something here. A CV I've been looking at the chat. A CVE is not like an exploit. It's just finding something that might it's a finding issue. It's not a breaking issue. And but the the I will say that the uncomfortable part is that those bugs were always there. Okay. Finding finding them is the first so you know part to solving them. So many eyes uh make all these bugs uh you [snorts] know uh that that rate of 60 that Matt just talked about. But if you have something that uh provides like here's all this stuff that you need to like form you know have your attention um then at least at least it's identifying them. Okay. So it didn't get like significantly worse overnight just because they had all these kind of CVEes. Um, it got it just got pointed out. That's that's the extent of this. Okay. So, I think Torvald said that AI is useful but and it might be a drag on the maintainers but it keeps if it keeps if it finds embarrassing bugs then totally worth it, you know, totally worth it. >> Yeah. Another thing on CVES is that they they have like a a ranking system or whatever. So, like, you know, I I don't know if it's like level one through level 10. I I don't actually know what their levels are. Uh but there's like there's like ones that just like not a big deal but exist. And then like Oh my god, the world's going to [ __ ] end like the the the >> severity have a severity ranking. >> What was like the the XZ one or whatever it was from a couple years ago. Um that was like a level 10 like like >> Yeah. >> world's on fire. Everyone's computer's going to die if we don't solve this kind of thing. So I I think that the the biggest priority if we're going to have this kind of situation where you know the se the the the flaws are being found at this rate we need to make sure that they're ranked you know what I mean like they're properly like assigned. So, so like u I if the AI tool finds like a oh my god security flaw it needs to be flagged and say oh my god here's a security flaw you know flag that thing red you know so so they need to work on the AI so that it can kind of judge how horrible the flaw it finds is that way the ones that are really really bad can be put in front of a an actual developer to judge whether or not it actually needs to be taken care of right away or if it has a lower level than what the AI says. I think that that's that's a really important part and it's possible that they already have that, you know, cuz there this article does not say anything about that. In fact, it doesn't even say that these are guaranteed to be AI. It's it's speculated that it's because of AI. It probably was, but they don't. I mean, the Linux kernels aren't the the colonel mailing list talks about it, but doesn't actually say uh whether or not they were. So, um Nate, what are your thoughts on this? >> It's another AI topic. I know. I know. >> I actually had a joke for this. Um I was thinking they should just do like the US government and do Defcon 1, Defcon 2 up to five. No, don't go any higher. [laughter] So just like everything at Defcon 3, we kind of work on. Anything at five, we got to do it right now. Whatever. Defcon 1, eh, we'll get to it. But yeah, it's [sighs] I mean at the same time, but is it not a good thing instead of being like Mozilla where you know they know that there's a lot of problems with their browser and they could do a lot better instead they just buy more yachts and that's my input on it. >> Yeah, I I Exactly. I think it is it's very much you'd rather know than not know. Um >> Exactly. >> It'll be interesting to see if the pace keeps up. You know what I Like that was just the I think the number was so high for those two days that it was shocking a lot of people. Well, it'll be interesting to see like it'll be interesting to see whether or not you know like it just found all of them in two days then it doesn't find any for a whole bunch of time or if it's just going to consist consistently find all of the flaws and just like there's 400 every couple days, you know, in which case, yeah, that's going to be a problem. But, you know, there's a couple solutions to that. One, you could use AI to s to uh sort through them, you know, train something on them. Uh or you you have a community of nerds out there. I mean, set forth the nerds and say, "Hey, go through these. You don't have to solve them. Just kind of, you know, maybe point us in the right direction a little bit." [laughter] whether or not, you know, it's going to lead to a lot of false positives because a lot of nerds don't know what the hell they're talking about, you know, including us. But, you know, it could at least get you started on sorting through them a little bit because you you don't want you don't want to say we just have this whole pile of CVs and then there end up being like, oh, we knew about that really bad problem months ago. Like the the CVE was there, we just didn't notice it because it was in a pile of all the others. Uh, so they have to have some way of sorting through them. And I I assume that either they do already or they're working on it because otherwise what are they doing? >> It's interesting that you know because of this you know like just Nate was just saying because this pod has been really AI centric there has been some differences in the way individual organizations have reacted to the AI and I think this is going to be a trend going forward. Okay. Codeberg refused uh the Cobberg vote basically refused AI and the volume of uh code that was you know that has been interjected into their like server space. The kernel team is now drowning in AI and uh and is probably like like holy crap what did we get ourselves into? And then there are the 37 corporate like alliance uh that have nothing to do except here's uh we're going to sell you the tooling for this AI whether they you know whe whether you like it or not and we're just trying to dodge we're just trying to dodge any kind of liability going forward. We're part of the alliance. So it's it's interesting how we can pick and choose these but they're it's all coming and in one news cycle it's all going to AI but it's all in a different kind of frame you know it's not the same you know it's just like AI good AI bet no none of it is that black and white there's a lot of nuance uh to the way people organizations uh are approaching this behemoth that we are now undert you know that we are now part of our in our daily lives. >> Yeah. And we talked about this in the lug last week a little bit how uh people's opinions are either one or the other, right? Like either you are allin and you really like it or oh my god it's the devil. Um, and because corporations are made of people too, you often have that same kind of split, you know, between how a company will will approach this. And often times within the organization, like within the the Linux kernel dev team itself, you have this split like, oh my god, this is really good. It can be really helpful. It's a great tool. Or people are like, this is horrible. like this this ends the Linux kernel as we know it, you know. >> Yeah. >> You know, so so we have this very it feels like a clean split and it's really would really hard for for you to convince the people who are very anti-AII to be all of a sudden become AI, you know, advocates. I also think that it's it's when it comes to FOS and its use of AI, it's really hard to because again I go back to like nobody none of these guys really care about the desktop Linux, you know, community or whatever. They're all like the the dev team codes because Linux is popular in the enterprise. That's where their money comes from. That's the reason why they get paid. Uh yes, it filters down to us at the end of the day, but it's not for us. And when they're when we as the desktop community talk about AI, we have this split, but their split is kind of the same, but also different in that they're looking at it towards how it affects their ability to create this thing that is relied upon, you know, worldwide on every server that you you can imagine. And it it's interesting to see how those both correlate and differ. And it's going to be a very interesting couple years as these problems are solved or at least talked about like how how do you how do how do small organizations who have to take in AI code like codeberg deal with this situation because as we talked about earlier you know this doesn't their solution isn't really a solution. uh and also how do do more wellunded organizations like the Linux kernel uh deal with AI because it's going I I know people are saying like oh the the AI bubble is going to going to pop one of these days right I'm I'm not an e economics expert but I don't think it's going to but even if it even if it does AI is in some form or fashion going to stay for it's here like it's not going to go away and that means that people organiz organizations and people are going to have to deal with it and the the their opinion on whether or not it's a useful tool or if it's you know going to end humanity is going to play a big role in how they go forward as an organization and it be it's going to be I have a feeling that the more money an organization has the more pro AAI they're going to be u because it's much easier for a company that organization that doesn't have any money to be anti-AI, you know, I mean, and also they have more reasons to be, you know, in some technological and, you know, monetarily and stuff. So, it's going to be very interesting, guys. And yeah, I know somebody in the in the chat was complaining. I know Nate mentioned it. We did a lot of AI topics today. We didn't actually do that on purpose. We didn't set out to for we all all three of us got our links independently like like we just we that's just what was in the news this week. So, we apologize if you're like completely anti-AII, but that's just if we're going to do news episodes, you're probably going to get as some AI stuff. So, either of you guys have anything else to say on any of the links that we had uh we we talked about today or this one or any of the others? No. Okay, let's go ahead and move on to the nuggies of the week. And uh so, the nugies of the week are the Yeah. Wow. I need to soundboard like soon. I'm getting a new monitor. I I think and I'm going to redo my setup. I know Nate's getting rid of monitors. I'm adding another monitor. It's hilarious. But um >> finally addiction that goes the other way. >> Yeah, I know. [laughter] But anyways, I'm going to have because I finally was able to get rid of my Mac setup. I have room now for a like a soundboard. So, I may I may have a soundboard. And one of those is going to be the Nug Nuggies of the Week sound that I can play. [laughter] Uh cuz I've always wanted one. Like I I don't even know if it'll be funny. It'll be funny the first time, but Matt, because he likes buttons, I'm just gonna sit there and press it more times than you guys can imagine. It's gonna be horrible. You guys are going to ban me from the my own podcast. It's gonna be great. Uh, but anyways, nuggies of the week. It's our last section and basically it's things that we've discovered, created, or want to talk about that we'd like to share with you guys. So, Drew, your nuggie of the week. >> It is a open-source task and chore management app. It's called Donatic. I was looking at it on Trunaz uh my trunaz scale. Um it's kind of like to-d doist or sweepy and it is it's pretty easy to use. Um especially if you're like a family or if you're in a small team because then you can assign tasks. Um and so it's a go back in with a React front end distributed as a single small Docker image. It's about 30 megabytes uh of space. And uh give it a try. I think it was uh it's pretty nice actually. better than I thought for has as lightweight as it is. Cool. Uh Nate, your nuggie of the week. >> I'm going to use one I've used before, but lately since I've taken on this new job, it has absolutely been crucial to me to be able to have this working and running in multiple devices. And that's just not Snook. It's if you're looking for a simple note takingaking application that can literally sync between every operating system including Android and iOS. It it's a something that you really should look at and take a consideration of. And yeah, I it's been pretty essential for me to be able to do my new job plus on top of, you know, trying to figure out if I'm going to ever get a YouTube video out. But yeah. >> Okay, cool. All right. So, uh, mine's going to be a little bit nichy. Not a word, but I'm going to use it as a word anyways. Uh, mine is because we did so much AI stuff, I thought, what's a little bit more? Uh, so mine is cloudcode. So, this is a a emac uh extension add-on that integrates claude code directly into Emacs. Uh it gives you key bindings to for so co so that so that claude can interact with your current buffer can open up a buffer on its own can read paths and a whole bunch of other things. Uh and otherwise it opens up in a terminal and you can interact with it right there within uh Emacs. If you are an Emac user and you are someone who uses cloud code to whether it's you know divibe code uh the horror the shock how dare you port forks and pitchforks or whatever torches and pitchforks you go mad um uh or if you're a developer who actually does real work and uh does your own code but still uses claw to to do whatever um and you're an emac user this is I think this is great. I I've put a little bit of effort into figuring out the the the key bindings. Those are a lot of a lot of them. There's like 30 it adds like 30 key bindings to your roster. So, it it takes some it takes some time uh to get it all down, but it does a whole bunch of stuff and integrates well with Emacs. So, um now is it as seamless as like uh Zen because we looked at Zen, you know, a few months ago where AI was like in it and it would interact with the with the buffer itself. It's not as integrated as that. I wish it was because that'd be cool. Like with with Zen, if you you do a prompt and it makes changes, you can actually see the code being changed in the buffer. That's not really the case here. It you it does update eventually, but it's not like real time. So, a little bit disappointed there. But other than that, if if you use Emacs and you want AI in it, this is something that you can do. So, that is uh cloudcode. Is is the name of that. Uh so that is it for the podcast. I have a couple housekeeping things to take care of. First off, we are going back to unlisting the live stream after the show. I I know some of you like having the the VOD available instantaneously. If you still have the link, like if you go to the Discord and you see the link or you go to Mass and you see the link, you can still click on it and still watch it. I'm not going to put it on private or anything like that. It's just going to go unlisted. uh the the edited video will go back up on Saturdays like we we did before. We're just finding that this the the live streams don't get as much attention by the algorithm and we want people to watch this. So, we're we're we're going to and Nate Nate was doing the editing anyways. It adds nothing to his workflow. It it just it just means that he'll send me the DRP or whatever and I will render it out. Um because I have the Vinci Resolve on Linux now and I get to actually use it. It's so good. Sorry, I get excited. I've actually used it multiple times now and it and it works. It's so good. Anyways, [laughter] [gasps] got distracted there, fellas, because I was I was excited. But anyways, uh the edited version will be going up on Saturdays. If you want to watch us live, we do record this live on Tuesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern time. The the chat has a wonderful time chatting. Sometimes we interact with them, sometimes we ignore them because they go off on tangents worse than we do. So, um whatever it is, they still have a good time. And uh the other piece of housekeeping is that we do two logs every month. We have one coming up a week from no it's two weeks from Thursday I think. Maybe it's a week from Thursday. I don't know. You'll have to go to get.linxcast.org in order to find the calendar. I don't remember the dates but we do an early one the second Thursday of the month and the fourth Thursday of the month is the late one. You can join us. We always have a good time. This last lug we talked about AI quite a bit. It was it was actually pretty well done even though it was a topic that we've done before. Um we we do open we open we do we're going to be doing an open mic morning. I'm calling it that. We can't do open mic nights because we're going to do something different. Uh but that'll be the first Thursday. The second one we're actually talking about Cashios on that second lug of August. So if you're interested in Cashios and you want to join a lug to talk about it, join us. It's going to be fun. We'll have a good time. So you can get more more information on that on the get.xcast.org which is where you'll find the calendar and all that sorts of stuff. So, if you want to get in contact with us, the best way to do so is via email. Email linkscast.org is that email address. You can find the boys here on their YouTube channels. Uh Nate is Nate Picks Tech World on YouTube and he posts hardware related stuff and uh uh all sorts of very very nerdy stuff. You can tell he knows what he's talking about. And uh Drew, he's our DRO maintainer. He [laughter] you can find him at justicylinux.com and he has videos. He posted one today. I did post that in the chat and uh you can check that out. He also does videos on uh Debian obviously of course and window managers and scripting and all sorts of self-hosting and all sorts of stuff. So uh just a guy Linux there and of course butterbian.org if you're interested in checking out the dro of the year. Also butter jokes are verboten [laughter] say. Uh anyways you want to get in contact if you want to uh the linuxcast.org org is where you want to find me. YouTube.com/linkxcast, like, subscribe, all that stuff. So, that's it for this one. We will be back uh next week. And that's it. We'll see you guys next time. [music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat. [music]