Feminism Is a Deathtrap for Society? | Jake of @rattlesnaketv Vs 7 Challengers

Men are [ __ ] stupid. We're we're not smart. We make [music] stupid mistakes all of the time. I do it every single day. I called that guy a [ __ ] the other day and I completely regret [music] it. I was >> I thought what he was saying was [ __ ] but >> not want educated women teaching children? >> Educated women, what do you mean by educated? >> Like maybe she goes to some college and schooling and then they are better equipped to teach their children. >> No. No. My next prompt is that feminism is a death trap. It leads to not only death of its own ideology, it eats itself alive. It also leads to the death of millions of unborn children. >> Why is feminism the death trap and not men failing in their own regard? >> Well, the idea here is that feminism is a death trap. We can talk about men and their duties and responsibilities in another debate, but this one's about feminism. It's a different debate. >> All right. I think men are dropping the ball and I think yes, maybe we might be heading that way, but it's not because of feminism. >> Look, I mean I'll I'll engage with it. Look, largely I don't actually think that men are really dropping the ball. I've tried seven ways to Sunday to try and say, "Well, it's the both sides." And look, there are some things that they aren't doing right, but if you look around at the infrastructure around like everything still runs properly, we still have a functioning military. And I think that generally one of the virtues that men need to have in in society is courage and leadership. And if they're not courageous enough to get up on the high lines and to drive the ice road trucks and to go to war, then everything falls apart. Like just imagine tomorrow that men were not courageous like that. Just imagine what would happen to society. But then you look on the reverse, just imagine if women shirked their duties of having children and nurturing the next Oh, wait, that's happened now. So, that's the argument there. >> Well, I don't know. I kind of see the infrastructure of America starting to crumble. And everything's kind of falling apart. And now we're we're claiming that men are still doing the best. >> Well, it's not it's not necessarily that they're doing the best. It's not necessarily that they're doing perfectly. But I guarantee you, if men were to collect And look, this is a possibility. These sorts of things have happened before. If there was some sort of revolt where men were like, "You know what? What's in it for me? Like I'm not going to do this anymore because I can't really have any of the benefits that I would have had or that my grandparents would have had. I can't buy a home. I can't have access to like a noble, loyal, virtuous wife, all these sorts of things." Then I think that we would see actually detrimental effects on society. And there would be roving bands of people killing each other. And there would be a vacuum of power that opened up. Or they would just all turn into sort of pacified gimps. >> Are they not already kind of pacified gimps? >> No, I don't think so. I think that you look around everywhere and you see like there's a guy here I was just speaking to who's like, you know, hobbling around because he got hit by shrapnel in a war. And there's you know, the lights are still on here. We still have all of this dangerous infrastructure. We still have you like A lot of people think that they flush their toilet and just sort of goes you know, down. But you know, there's infrastructure beneath the roads and sewage plants and men who are in [ __ ] plumbing to do these sorts of things. And then like that's all still happening today. But what's not happening is we're not like sustaining our birth rates. >> Right. [snorts] And I've I work around that kind of stuff with infrastructure and what not. And it always kind of feels like we're just almost there where it's going to teeter off. >> I do want to get to the prompt though because >> was >> Yeah. The prompt is that feminism is a death trap. It leads to the Let's just say it to the death of its own ideology. And I'll explain what what I mean by that. >> Right. >> So, if feminism wants to seek out egalitarianism and they want to put women in higher education and they want to have more women having access to the workforce. And ultimately, what feminism is is is the dismantling of the family unit. That was the original goal of feminism. They said that in order to be truly liberated, women need to be oppressed from the shackles of their loving families and their and their children and all these sorts of things. So, if that is the goal, then obviously women are going to forego having children in pursuit of this more noble virtue, apparently. So, if they're foregoing children, then they're not reproducing themselves, then someone else is going to be reproducing, and it's not going to be the feminists. And so, that ideology ends up taking over. >> Do you not want educated women teaching children? >> Educated women, what do you mean by educated? >> Like maybe she goes through some college and schooling and then they're better equipped to teach their children. >> No. No. I don't I don't I don't necessarily even see why like like you mean like a teaching degree or like >> Mhm, not necessarily, but get a lot more information on grand scheme of things. Like uh my mother, uh I was actually homeschooled, but she went through college and she I think got her master's in some sort of mathematics and stuff like that. So, she really helped me a lot with that, but it's kind of cool to have that basis for her instruction for me. >> I get why that would have been helpful, but like when if you if you need to get a college education to teach infants, I don't really see why you why you'd necessarily need that. Like I'm I'm sure you could get a high school education and you could be a human being who has your wits about you and you could teach children about like 1 + 1 is 2 and basic English and you know? And I don't I don't I don't I don't necessarily I think a lot of the subjects that are taught in public school these days are totally unnecessary as well. So, even if it's not the most educated woman in the world, like she could still if she has virtue and if she has good social skills and everything and if she sort of does her own research into how to educate your children, I think that it'll be just just fine. >> Fair point. >> Thank you, sir. >> So, you say that feminism leads to the death of itself along with the death of >> millions of children. Why Why do feminists lean more towards you know aborting their children? >> Uh well, I actually think that it's like a demonic inversion. And this is maybe a little bit off topic, but uh I I believe that there's something inherent about human sacrifice in the human condition when we stray far enough away from the good. Like for example, uh in Christianity one of the central themes is it's like sacrifice. Jesus says, "This is This is my body and I give it to you. I sacrifice it for you. I die for you." But feminists, they say the same thing, "This is my body, but I get to do what I want with it. It's my body and I get to kill inside it. It's not that I'm sacrificing, it's that I'm killing." So, I think that there's a there's like a demonic satanic inversion that goes on there. And I think that it's a it's a spiritual thing, but uh uh in terms of on a more practical level, I think that uh actually women are just completely and utterly propagandized to think that this is some sort of like uh a noble right. Like I was at the table yesterday on the No Fugazi podcast. Shout out to my boy my boy Cooley. And there was eight women with me and me and my friend Cooley. And we asked them "Who here wouldn't date a Trump supporter?" And they're all raising their hands. And then I said, "Okay, well, what are the policies that would make you not want to ever date a Trump supporter?" And each one of them went around the table and didn't know any policies, had no idea what they were talking about. They were functionally [ __ ] when it came to politics. But each one of them said along the lines of, "Well, you know, Trump doesn't want abortion." So, I think that it's just mass propaganda and then they understand that women don't tend to engage with ideas and these sorts of things as much as men and they and that there's a very very big chunk of low information women who will just be able to be propagandized and used uh by NGOs and you used by political parties to their ends. >> Well, obviously they buy into the propaganda. So, it's appealing to them. >> Yep. >> And couldn't men sacrifice something so that women would be more willing to have children? >> But do what do you mean by sacrifice something? >> Like more men staying at home. >> More men staying at home? >> you know, women don't like to be constrained. They're complaining a lot about, you know, it's a trap. It's a trap. >> Yeah. Well, I I appreciate that you're playing devil's advocate. I know you're doing the best job that you possibly can, but if men were to stay home en masse and women were to pursue their careers, that's like the exact same problem is that they just are going to forego having children and that doesn't help anything. And they've actually tried this to an extent in Scandinavian countries, for example. They've tried to give a lot of benefits to women where they can like have a lot of maternal leave and and everything, but it it just doesn't doesn't help at all. Like it's it's a cultural problem and we need to address the cultural problem. >> Fair enough. >> Thank you, sir. Good man. >> I've been married for 19 years. And uh she's the most independent and strong person that I've ever known and I've achieved a lot in my life. Um but I wouldn't have achieved half of what I've done without her standing behind me with her arms folded. So, her having the the the choice to do what she wants and to to stop me doing my stupid things, uh I see women having the rights to choose as a benefit for everybody because men are [ __ ] stupid. We're we're not smart. We make stupid mistakes all of the time. I do it every single day. I called that guy a [ __ ] the other day and I completely regret it. >> Was he [ __ ] >> I thought what he was saying was [ __ ] but I 100% should not have said that. I was wrong to do that and and I've apologized and I should not have ever you know, I make stupid mistakes. And I'll tell you what, I wouldn't have made that mistake if my wife was sitting next to me. She would have slapped me in the face before I'd even got those words out of my mouth. >> Look, I I think this is an this is a basic logical fallacy. It's an appeal to the same period and I don't I don't really think that you basically saying my wife is awesome and I'm so stupid and I'm a big dummy and if it wasn't for my wife then I'd just sort of be dead or homeless or in prison. Like I I actually don't think that that's the case. I think that women are actually actually a much more likely to need the guidance of men than the other way around. >> My experiences disagree with you. All the men I know in my life, no matter how smart they are, they'd be probably dead without the women in their lives. Um >> I don't know I do think that you're just like using a lot of hyperbole here. Look, women play an integral role in men's lives and like the symbiotic relationship that you can form with a woman, with a wife is is an incredibly important thing and I see a lot of the best men all of the best men that I know pretty much are the ones who are in long-term marriages and they have like the counsel of their wife. But >> It's an important thing. >> Yeah, yeah, 100% but I don't really see how this actually relates to the prompt though about how feminism is is is a disgrace. >> point is that women have the ability to choose and because of feminism. Uh so they can choose to stop the men doing the stupid things and and not be in that subservient role of just doing what they're told and being in their place in the house. Um and I think that that's >> relate to abortion? >> That I haven't really formulated the the thoughts for. Please bear with me. I'm having bit issues with my leg so I'm I'm just trying to think as quick as I can. Um The the the the >> So are you Can I try and steel man it for you? >> Yeah, yeah, please. Sorry. Bear with me. >> All right. So I think what you're trying to say is that women being able to choose in many different capacities is important because they play a very integral role and some sort of like a demoralization of women if they weren't able to choose in terms of abortion would lead to negative outcomes. >> I think the empowering of women to have those choices and realize that they're not they don't have to just be subservient has benefited women and given them the um How do I word this? Given them the the um I'm sorry. Uh it's given them the ability to um I'm sorry. Bear with me. >> Self-actualize? >> So, yeah, it's given them the ability to uh you realize that they are more than just a housewife. Um you know, but it's also if they would choose to be a housewife and that's what they want to do, they can. But because they've now realized that they're more than just this housewife, it's given them the uh the the forefront to push men forward sometimes. >> I I I'm going to grant what you're saying here. I'm going to I'm just going to grant for the sake of the argument that uh women feel good about having the ability to choose, right? That they can choose whatever they're doing in life and they can choose uh to have an abortion if they want to. But the logical conclusion of this is still that feminism eats itself because they're not going to have children and the ideology will eventually die. So, even if in the moment it feels good for them if even if I just grant that for you, in the long term the ideology dies despite the short-term feelings of happiness. >> But not all feminists don't want children. >> I understand. Yeah. >> So, I mean feminism could still continue in some form just maybe without the ones that >> If it can Look, if it continued in an underground sequestered away >> Well, no, that's not what what what >> private meetings way, I would I wouldn't care. But the fertility rates are the fertility rates. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, but there is feminists that have large families and they're still feminists. So, let's say that the the feminists that don't want the babies are the ones that end up going away. They're still going to be a version of feminism, but with just women that also want to have lots of babies. >> Will you grant that it will shrink in size? >> The feminism will shrink in size? Yes. >> Yeah, and it will continue to shrink in size? >> Uh >> until it withers away? >> I think it it in in my hypothesis of there being now a different version of feminism, but the ones that actually want to have lots of babies, it wouldn't at that point it wouldn't shrink in size. It would get to a point where it's shrunk and it's now that bubble of people that want the rights and equality that feminism has given them, but they also want to have lots of babies. >> I think we can finish it off and I'll I'll I'll grant you some more ground, Craig, and uh finish off on a little bit of middle ground. I can understand the argument that feminism, you grant that it will shrink, right? And it could shrink to a to a minuscule size, but there'll always be some sort of like short-haired, middle-aged woman who tries to yearn for the days of old, but in terms of policy prescriptions and in terms of uh you know, uh mass universal female suffrage, those things will go away and those are sort of the the outcomes of feminism and those things those things will die. >> I think the suffrage has got That's not That's what brought feminism about and nowadays feminism is just a thing that exists. You know, people aren't really fighting for it in the streets anymore. It's just, you know, there is a movement of of feminists. So, I I think feminism today is a very different thing to [clears throat] what it was, you know, even 30, 40 years ago. Um the movement has evolved. The the the policies and and the thoughts around feminism has evolved. Um and >> considerably worse, yeah. >> in a lot of aspects, but um there's extremism to everything in life, right? There there's Pokémon players that will go and fight kids to get the best card. Does that mean that all Pokémon players are bad and it's just going to lead to violence? >> think that Pokémon will die, you know. >> Pokémon is weird, right? >> I think that Pokémon will will live on. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Uh but what if story What if for instance you know Pokemon there's always the fights in the stores so the stores decide to stop selling the Pokemon and then Pokemon will shrink and go away because people have less access to it. >> But I think that there'll always be now I'm making your argument for you they'll always be someone with a collector's item in their basement somewhere. But it's not like mass adopted anymore. Anyways, the roles have really changed here Greg so >> Yeah, a good conversation. >> Yeah, thank you sir. My next prompt is that feminism destroys society by short-term time preference meaning that feminism is all about my feelings, my rights, my autonomy, my abortion and all these sorts of things and eventually this kills society as we know it or virtuous society Christian society. >> How? >> [snorts] >> Well, because feminists they tend to think in the short-term. They're thinking about what I want right now. I want abortion. I want to be able to go and get educated. I want to have a bank account and all these sorts of things. When really >> short-term? >> Well well yeah because this is what I want right now and it's not necessarily looking at the long-term implications. >> But isn't the reasons that they want those things is that so that all females can have them in the future which would by definition be long-term? If they're not doing it just because they want the bank accounts feminists are doing it because they want all women to have access to these things. So that would by definition not be short-term that would be long-term. >> Uh, it would be on a mass scale and they can want that if they want like I want uh, my bloodline to uh, persist throughout thousands of years and I want there to be a statue of me in all of their front yards. But just cuz I but just but just cuz I want that doesn't mean that it's going to be descriptively true. I have to put the put the measures in place to actually have that implemented. >> So how does that back up your case? >> So you're saying that women want to have bank accounts therefore they want everyone in the future to have bank accounts which I'm not necessarily sure this true. I don't even really think that they think that far ahead, but like just because they want that doesn't mean that that's actually going to happen. They have to put they they have to put the measures in place for it to happen over the long term. >> But it has happened over the long term. Women can now have bank accounts because of the the the advance of women's rights, women do have bank accounts and mortgages and a lot of debt and >> They do right now, yeah. >> You so hasn't it become a long-term thing? Even if let's say let's grant your premise that the feminists wanted it for them at the time, hasn't it now then become a long-term thing because any woman can go and get a credit card, a bank account, a mortgage, do what they want? >> No, I don't think it's long-term. I think it's been over the course of like a hundred years and that's definitely not long-term. Like when you when you when you're thinking about long-term, you're thinking about over the course of hundreds and hundreds of years. And if feminists if feminists actually wanted to promulgate their ideology, then they would need to go about it in a different way. And I know it just comes back to this all the time, but it's like they're just not reproducing and they're going to get replaced and the ideology is not going to be sticking around forever, at least not in a prominent way. So all of these ideas like if you want women to have bank accounts 200 years from now, you have to make sure that you still have the ability to be able to manipulate men in power. You still have to be able to appeal to men in power. And if men actually flip the switch and they say, "Actually, you know what? This isn't working for us. Like our rivals are getting much stronger and our society is decaying. We need to sort of rein it in and rein in suffrage and these things, then over the long term that actually won't happen. So you might get bank accounts now and it might happen for a little while longer, but unless you actually have a plan to promulgate the ideas of feminism, then over the long term it's just it's going to wither away and die. >> Well, do you for bank accounts specifically, do you even have to do think about feminism? Can you just not make sure that everyone can have a bank account? I mean, aren't you making the assumption that in the future they're not going to allow women to have bank accounts anymore? >> Yeah. >> Do you honestly think that's the case? That's the men will be like, "Nope, that's it. No women. You're not allowed a bank account anymore." Do you think that's going to happen? >> Well, I mean, I think that if consumer debt gets to a certain level and they're looking at societal trends and they're looking at and they're looking at and they're saying, "Well, you know, women, when they have their own bank accounts, tend to be extremely irresponsible. And actually, all of these financial disputes, they're breaking up families. And if we want to really prioritize the family, we've got to actually centralize this and we've got to give the husband the autonomy over the family's finances." So, if when you're looking at it like that, I think that there's every chance that over the long term that women's rights to voting, bank accounts, all these sorts of things go away again. Like, just because we're currently living in this secular society, I don't think that that's necessarily the way that it has to go for all of eternity. I mean, I think I would like that, but I don't think that they're putting in in place uh the means to do it. >> So, let's say men decide to take away women's bank accounts. How do you think that would work? >> Well, same as it worked last time. It would just mean that women will more incentivized to get married and have a family and have a husband who they could appeal to. >> physically. How how are we going to be like, "No, you can't have bank accounts anymore." >> It's digital. Just boom, take it away. Like that. >> Yeah, but women are in charge a lot now. >> Yeah, but like but that's that's the idea though. Is that like patriarchal structures, like they're trying to dismantle patriarchal structures, but if these patriarchal structures were reinstated and they were like, "We need to do everything we possibly can to reinstill family values." One of the first things that they would look at would be, "Okay, the husband obviously needs to have autonomy. There needs to be one vote per household. The husband casts the vote. And also, in terms of of the finances, the husband is the leader of the family so that these financial disputes aren't always breaking families apart like this." >> So, just one more question before we finish. Um do you know what percentage of consumer debt belongs to women versus men? >> I think it's something like 80%. >> Is that just the US or do >> Uh I'm not sure. You'd have to fact check me. I'm sure they'll fact check me on this. But it's yeah, they they have a higher >> honestly >> that's what I've not looked into and I'm just interested in in how that and >> Especially student debt they they they there's a lot more student debt. Now, I think that I think that when you look at debt as an overall, men have a lot more debt, but you'd know obviously that some debt is good when you have it with assets and you can positively gear things, but some debt is bad. So, in terms of the liability debt >> and like car loans and stuff like that, you think that's more women? >> Credit student debt is a big one because women are obviously you know, going into college a lot more than men these days. That's a big one. And then credit card debt as well, you know, women like to buy makeup and [ __ ] >> I mean again, I guess it's just talking about my life personally, but I know that I'm useless with money and my wife has to tell me what to do, but you know, that's just me. Anyway, thank you for that. I enjoyed that. >> Thanks, Craig. Appreciate it.