Falcons-Colts joint practice report + Michael Silver interview | AT&T Training Camp | Podcast

What's up y'all and welcome back to the Atlanta Falcons podcast network. We've got joint practices which means that obviously we are not together. Like that's what joint means, right Tori? So I am here in Indianapolis and Tori is back home in the great state of Georgia. >> They left me here. They left me here and now I'm just sitting around twiddling my thumbs. >> See, I knew you were going to bring this kind of this energy. We we we wanted you here, Tori. Like I can't do this without you. I need I needed you here because as we're going to get into it would have been really helpful. >> Well, that's the thing is I was literally the whole this is the first for our listeners. This is the first time that I have ever not I think that's a double negative. This is the first time that I've never gone to a joint practice. And for y'all at home, y'all know I love joint practices. And y'all know like how much and will I'm so excited to talk to you because I have so many questions. Um, but I feel like I'm kind of like coming in as a listener today as much as anything because I'm just like, >> how was the FOMO >> questions? I have FOMO. I I'm just like, what has been happening? I'm seeing so many different things. I'm all over the place. I need to know. >> All right, so that is uh what we've got on tap for today's episode. But that's not all of it because on the tail end of it, and it's pretty long tail today, we've got an interview with Michael Silver. He joined me up here in in Carmel, Indiana. Sat down. We uh we talked about a lot of different things, but really some good Matt Ryan stories, some Kyle Shanahan stories in there. So, definitely stay tuned for that. And then after Michael Silver, we have a double feature, Know the Foe. I will be breaking down the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and then Tori gets to talk about the New Orleans Saints. So, little NFC South rivalry action to finish you up today on the episode. But Tori, let's get into some joint practices, shall we? >> Woo! Yeah, I'm so excited. First off, question number one, how are the vibes? Like, what are we talking about? Like, was it hot? Was it not hot? How's Caramel, Indiana? Like, tell me all about the vibes. And were emotions running high at all? >> Okay, I like it. Um, yeah, very Field of Dreamsy. Honestly, >> the the Colts training camp kind of facility is it's really interesting because it's a very big sports complex. So, I think the Pacers also have kind of like a facility many miles away maybe cuz it's that big honestly. But it's one of these like community just park complexes, a ton of baseball fields, soccer fields, all of that stuff. And then you walk down a winding path and in between a a farm and you know like a corn field and and there's trailers and everything strewn about tractors like there's just two professional football fields and this really cute like little family play area kind of like the Braves used to have like the up at the third deck where you could take the kids and they run the base and all that stuff like the Colts had a real kind of like family area back there. Um, but it was it was a really cool environment for a practice. The weather I think we brought with us unfortunately because even though yesterday on on Wednesday, it's Thursday as we're recording this, the the clouds were out, but the sun still dropped by a few times and when it did, it was really hot. Luckily, there's no humidity. But I will say Thursday was about as hot as any practice I feel like that we had in Flowery Branch because it like it wasn't humid, thank God, but like the sun was right there. It was it was like the third team that was practicing on on Thursday. It was so so hot. Um but the crowd was great. The they had a kind of an MC for the event. I thought it was a really well-run um joint practice. And then finally, the energy. I thought the team's energy was really really good, especially on Thursday, but honestly, maybe at the beginning of Wednesday, they were they were easing into it a little bit. But by the end, the full team period on Wednesday, the Falcons were the louder team. The Falcons felt like kind of the the team that was ready to be there and bring it and and really kind of make this a competitive environment. So, we'll get to the performance aspect of it all itself, but from just a could you feel the presence of which team more? I I do would I would give the edge to to Atlanta in that one. >> Okay. That's really interesting. So, to remind our listeners because you're just a one-man band up there in Indianapolis right now, which you've been doing amazing work, by the way. I want to give you a shout out for all all of the the notes and odds and ends that you've been able to gather just yourself. Um, but because of that, in the way that joint practices are constructed, it's usually the first team offense for Atlanta going against the first team defense for the Colts and then vice versa defensively. So, there's there's a lot of things happening on two separate fields. So will in order to make sure that you, you know, gave the love to everybody, you really honed in on the offense on Wednesday and then really honed in on the defense on Thursday. I want to start my questions just let's start with Wednesday. Let's start with the offense and what you're able to observe with that group. And I will say watching and reading from various reporters up there, I felt like I couldn't get a good gauge as to how good or how many mistakes or road bumps that Atlanta's offense actually had on Wednesday. I feel like there were so many different conflicting reports about what was working, what wasn't working for Atlanta's offense. So, what can you kind of tell me like from your point of view, how did those 11on1 periods especially run? >> Yeah, I think on Wednesday we saw a few different versions of Atlanta's offense. Um, and I I will say like I I was a little bit surprised because during the course of the practice there's a lot of output, right? We're all kind of standing there and and tweeting or taking video and like we're all trying to we're getting our content out, >> right? Right. >> But it's it's not until after practice when you're like recapping and kind of can take a deep breath that that you then start to kind of consume the actual content from the day. So it was it was at that time that I started kind of seeing I assume what what you saw as well. And I understood where it was coming from, but it also wasn't kind of my experience a little bit because as you mentioned, the way that practices are divided, yes, the starting offense and really the the offense as a whole are on one field, the defense as a whole is is on the other field. But then even in the midst of that, when they're not doing 11 on 111, they they will divide even further. And so then you've got kind of the skill players going on seven on seven and you've got the trenches one-on-one. So, all of that is to say, there's a lot of iterations that I think this a practice could take and your takeaways from a practice depend on which iteration you were watching. I didn't think it was the dooiest and glooiest practice for Atlanta's offense as some other people made it out to be. Um, I think the offensive line in particular was a true standout. I think that the passing game was a lot of short and intermediate routes which is not inconsistent with what we have seen in Flowery Branch. Um so I think there were is a healthy amount of screen offense >> with varying degrees of success. I mean when Bjan Robinson had the ball in his hands no shocker things were going really well for Atlanta's offense. Drake London had that huge play. Like the the Falcons stars looked really solid over the last couple of days. And this is why like I'm having the two minds about really the passing game in particular because when the day started on Wednesday, one of the first before they got into 11 on 111, it was a period of one-on- ons. And I walked up to our our friend Dior Orlando lead better and he was the one that was kind of like, man, the Falcons receivers are like 6 and0 right now. They've they've won the first six reps in these one-on-one 77s. The quarterbacks looked really good. The wide receivers were creating separation. Now, obviously, as happens, the Colts kind of went came back in that drill and they won some reps, but >> the Falcons won kind of that one-on-one period >> and then went into 11on 111 and it the pass rush kind of becomes a little bit of a an impact and I think the Colts defensive line was really impressive. Um, it's the ter it was kind of the big negative plays I would say was was probably what you were seeing on social media and a lot of that was weirdly being fed by some of the cults I think beat reporters like that was a thing I noticed as well was >> the the two aspect in particular. It felt like a lot of people were really overemphasizing the the negative plays that he had and I think Daniel Flick tweets out these numbers all the time. when you look at his actual like stats there maybe were six incompletions in the whole practice the other day it wasn't egregious and then even the pick six I think after people got a second look at the film and it wasn't just coming from the tweets of those who were there and often times we can be on the other side of the field so the video can be the best look at it the ball was kind of in Drake's hands and I asked Chua after the the practice and he said on his part, ball placement like that is what he could have controlled and made better and throw to his inside shoulder instead of his outside shoulder. But I wonder if we ask Drake if if Drake doesn't say, "Look, that that's also a ball that I need to come up with." So, there's a lot of ways to look at it. It felt like everybody latched on to the the negatives on Wednesday about Atlanta's offense, but there were some legitimate positives. And by all accounts on Thursday, we'll get to the defense. That's what I was watching. But by all accounts, from those who watched the offense, much better day for the offense with a lot of legitimate bright spots. >> I think that's something that Kevin Spancy talked about before practice on Thursday was how he wanted to see the Falcons take a step in the right direction in terms of protection. And he was like, and that's offensive line and on your quarterback. It's not just a a one size, it's the operation, feeling out the protections and making sure that those are where they need to be. and he kind of said that was going to be a focus today within the scope of practice from a technical standpoint, just getting protections down. I'm curious from your perspective when you were watching the offense on Wednesday, was that something that you you noticed as well that it was like, you know what, I understand why Kevin Spansky was saying that and why there needed to be a a shift? I do I do think that the pressure and the pass rush for the Colts had an impact in in these team periods. So I totally agree with what he was saying um in terms of the that all working together and be it's not just so simple as like well he threw the ball well or he didn't. It's like there's a lot that goes on when the ball is snapped. Um, I I heard that the word technical stuck out to me in the moment and I I don't know if I've yet landed on what I think that means because to my eye and I'm not an NFL head coach. >> I I know, crazy, right? Like I I think everybody here thought they were getting a an NFL head coach on the podcast, but the the technique wasn't necessarily in fact that was something that stood out to me in the one-on-one periods. I thought it was kind of a technically good showing from Atlanta's offensive line. If there were moments where it looked like pressure was created, it it kind of more just felt like a a guy getting beat. And that is where I will say like I that may be because of technique. To my pure eye, it it looked like a speed rush around the end or it looked like a spin move to the inside. And I'm sure that a I'm sure Bill Callahan would say, "Well, here is how you technically counter that." And that is what they are working on. Um, but I I thought that there were really good moments for the offensive line and there weren't. It just seemed like the the poor moments came kind of in those 11 on 111 periods and and those are the ones that maybe matter the most. Um, but I I think that the offensive line, what I watched in those 101 drills to an individual thought it was a pretty good good showing and Jawan Taylor in particular, I had him down as as 3 and 0 in his reps. Um, and and there were some really good readjustments and and he got some reps in there with the the starter. So, it's good to see him kind of reaclimating. >> I'm glad that you brought him up because I know that was going to be a big storyline this week of him like really getting back in with the one. We've seen him on and off over the last few days before this indie trip, but by and large like really getting him back in the flow of it. Um, you were able to talk to him yesterday, guys. he was made available yesterday and he did say that he kind of opened up about what the extent of his injury was and can you kind of share a little bit about what he said and and what that means for where he's at right now? Yeah, he said he said he was getting uh it was relatively minor cleaning up his knee in March um over the off season and really said that it was kind of 12 weeks until he started feeling really kind of back to 100% and and from there was able to get into doing more things. So that would put him, you know, pretty well into his recovery timeline. And he's looked really good out there. We obviously know that last Monday he got activated off of the pup list which is always kind of that first step into getting back. He we saw him on the practice field the next day. I think the day after that or or two days after that they gave him kind of another rest day to acclimate. So they have been bringing him on slowly but talking to him he feels 100%. He said mentally there's really no hurdle. He's been through knee things at various points in his career. So, he has learned how to adjust to injuries and how to kind of have his own process getting back on the field. And again, like he was one of the more impressive not just offensive linemen but players on day one for me. >> Yeah. Okay, let's move on to day two and you watching the defense today kind of, you know, from my perspective, a lot of people were actually talking about the Falcons defensive line and how good they were against the run and we know what the Colts run off rushing offense is. We know how good they've been with Jonathan Taylor. uh your highlevel just like thoughts early on how this defensive line performed particularly because they were the ones that I felt like were really getting a lot of love from even the Indianapolis reporters. Yeah, it uh if they had played last year in what was that week eight, nine against the Colts like they did today, Jonathan Taylor was not rushing for 280 yards. Like that they flat out kind of and I don't use this word too too often, but like dominated it felt like the Colts a little bit. And most of this work came in really red zone periods, which is >> on the one hand you could say favors the defense a little bit, but also if there's an area of the field where as an offense you're leaning more into quick passes, get the ball out of your hands, kind of do all of that, it would be the red zone. And and they simply didn't even have time to execute like fast developing plays. There was a wide receiver screen that Brandon Doorless like from the A gap from the B gap just was there and was like, "No, stop. You're not running past me, wide receiver. I'm just going to tackle you right here." And the defensive line lost their minds. And that was the theme all day long is the energy. Nate Ali's group was by far the loudest, most aggressor type, like not in an aggressive way, but just they were going to win their rep and then let every single player on the field know about it. That was best represented by Carlos Allen Jr., who is somebody we haven't I think given a lot of time to on on this show or throughout training camp because he is in that defensive line mix with the second and third team but with a day like Thursday that's how you'd make a name for yourself right and I will be very curious to see how much time he gets on Saturday but during like a fiveplay span to I think there were three or four like tackles for losses just by Carlos Allen on backto back and then like one play and then the third play. He just it was he was all over the place. Um so the defensive line was very very impressive. Mason Smith I thought had a good day. Uh yeah, I mentioned kind of Chris Allen and Chris Williams, Carlos Allen. Chris Williams is another guy who had a really good day. So across the board, James Pierce Jr. continues to to look quick and athletic. Um so solid solid line play today from the Falcons. >> I love it. So, can you give us an update to over the last couple weeks, some guys have been working through injuries, various stages of return to play, and I'm talking a lot of like defensive guys. Avant trail, Jesse Bates the third, Devon Diablo. Who are some of the guys getting back in the mix over the last couple days, particularly defensively? >> Yes. So, we still have not seen Avon Terrell back out on the field. He did not suit up again today. Same same with Billy Bowman, although he's in a little bit of a different category, but but those guys in the secondary. Um, Divine Diablo, I saw him out there doing doing some drills. I don't think he participated in >> any team. I need to go kind of double check that. And there's a chance that there were some of those 11 on 111 periods where he was out there, but by and large, I mostly noticed um Kendall Daniels and Harold Perkins Jr. kind of getting some run there. But but Divine was back out and doing things. Jesse back out there. However, also again, I don't think he did very much, if any, full team stuff. So, I'll be curious with those two guys. Now, Kevin Spansky did say really not expecting many of the starters, if any, to play on Saturday. It's going to be the second and third team guys, and that is by design. they wanted to get those starters, their reps over the these last couple of practices and then leave Saturday for for kind of again those second and third team guys. But I I'm curious to see just with these injury injured players who are now kind of getting back into the fold, Jawan Taylor maybe among them. Are those reps on Saturday a little bit more valuable? Because we've seen Demarco Helms now for a while running as the starting safety. Now, we all know what Jesse Bates can do, and like I think you and I are some of the biggest fans of Jesse Bates, but that's something that's just kind of caught my attention over the last little bit. And I would trust Jesse to be able to step on the field tomorrow and play at the highest level possible. But I'm I'm curious just as we're at this time of the year and the season is like quickly approaching, where is everybody and and what's the status? >> Yeah. Okay. I think that pretty much wraps up my highlevel questions. Um, but we can't move on in the show without giving you the opportunity to do a camp champ. I I wish I could give you So, I'll tell you like who my camp champ was just from social media posts alone. >> Yeah. What's the wordcloud? Like the wordcloud camp champ? >> Drake London. Drake London. >> Oh, interesting. Okay. >> Yeah. I don't know if it's because of the catches that he was making. I know everybody saw the one that he had going up and over in those one-on-one sessions. I believe uh had a couple more catches. Kelly and I talked about Drake London and showed that highlight on our show today on Fox 5. So I I would go Drake London, >> but I wasn't there. So I feel like my Camp Champ has like a little asterk beside it. >> That Hey, that's that's fair. I honestly I think this year's training camp like Cam Cham segment has a little bit of an asterisk. So let's we're letting everything fly and I love it. Um I'm going to also in that spirit do something a little bit different and I want to give a Cam Champ for each day, one on each side of the ball because I think while Drake I would say was very consistent. He was like I mentioned the stars, he and Bjan were maybe the most like consistent offensive players just doing what they do. But I thought Tyler Goodson was a player who I don't I think this is the first time I mentioned his name on the podcast, but on day one he was fast. He was hard to pin down. He was really agile. And he was another player who early during warm-ups and of course he played for the Colts the last three seasons. He was letting his former teammates know like I am I'm going to run you over today and then I'm going to let you know about it and then I'm going to let the fans in the stands know that I ran you over. Like that was that was his energy and he played so well. And then defensively, another guy I'm mentioning for the first time, Darn Holmes. He was that for Atlanta's defense. I tweeted out um I think three clips from the one-on- ons for the DBs and the Colts wide receivers. The last one in that stretch is Darn Holmes, and you can see on the tail end of that clip him kind of like jawing against the receiver right afterwards. It was a great rep by him. That was indicative of his day. I thought he had a really strong day as well and a good camp overall. So, um, Darn Holmes and and Tyler Goodson, want to give them some love on Cam Champ, but Drake London welldeserving as well. >> Yeah. Again, I mean, he he went up and over, guys. I I just loved it. I love seeing all of the the replays and the the videos from from practice. So, yeah. >> Yeah. It's it's like he Kevin Spansky called his jumping ability elite. That's that's not breaking news to anybody today. >> No. >> But when you see it, it it's still always so much fun to watch. >> Um, well, great. Thanks, Will. Do you want to intro us into your conversation with Michael Silver? >> Yeah, I do. Um, this was this was a treat. He Michael Silver is somebody who has such extensive history and knowledge of the league, has been doing this since the '9s, if not the the late 80s. I don't want to age you, Mike. Sorry about that. But he has such a close relationship with uh a lot of important figures in Falcons history. Kyle Shanahan and Matt Ryan among them. um and went into a lot of stories from like 2015 16, but then also how they have evolved since then and why Matt Ryan is is a really interesting figure for the current role that he's in. So, I really think you guys are going to enjoy this. It's a lot more of Mike talking than it is me, which I think is going to be a treat for a lot of you. So, let's get into my conversation with Michael Silver and then again, know the foes right after that. Thank you guys so much for listening to today's episode. We hope you guys enjoyed our joint practice coverage and please stay tuned for everything we've got coming throughout the rest of preseason. But let's get on over to Michael Silver now sitting down with me. We're here in Indianapolis. >> Caramel. >> Yeah. Getting ready for the first of two joint practices. Um so this was an amazing opportunity when when Matt told me that we'd be able to sit down with you. I was very excited. Uh, I've read several of your books, so I'm a big fan. Um, the why was was an amazing one. >> Thank you so much. It's very Falcons uh centric at times because it talks about that incredible um you know, coaching staff that got to the precipice of a championship and that's kind of how the book starts with with Kyle Shanahan in that moment. But, you know, I was talking to Jeff Olrich earlier. He was on that staff. uh one of the many decorated people with uh Raheem Morris, Matt Laflur, Mike Laflur, uh you know, Mike McDaniel. Uh obviously these people are all big figures in the league now, but they I remember when they were younger and hungrier and uh what a what a cool time uh you know under Dan Quinn that all that coalesed. Yeah, it's I'm almost sad that like that 2011 Washington or 2010 Washington staff exists because if they didn't, people would be looking at that 2016 Atlanta staff as kind of the the whiz kids of of this current era. >> Yeah. But it definitely elevated in Atlanta and it was a really um was a really key moment for Kyle and for Matt Ryan. And you know, talking to Matt earlier this morning, you know, it's it's come full circle. uh you know he was the headstrong quarterback adapting to a young headstrong offensive coordinator and kind of merging their different realities and a kind of a choppy first year though with some decent results and then you know just you know took the league by storm year two um and so now Matt is in a quarterback like position but running an entire building and uh you know I I just I love Matt's combination of you know swag but humility and I you know, everyone in Atlanta knows uh, you know, he's a he's a special guy. And so on paper, you go, "Wow, that's a lot for a guy to come, you know, from recently retired to he's in charge of everything." But we have seen the model, you know, with Elway certainly, um, where if you do it right, it could work. And I and I think Elway is a really cool parallel because um he was the general manager of the Broncos and ultimately led them to a championship at two Super Bowls, but he was not uh trying to act like, "Hey, I'm really in charge of personnel." He would make big decisions, but he had Matt Russell, one of the league's best personnel people, kind of quietly running all that, and John was was running the organization. And I do think that is a fair comp for what Arthur and the Falcons are trying to create here where you have Matt, you know, as the the guy running a lot of things, but Ian Cunningham, a ve very very highly regarded talent evaluator. um ideally freed up to be like, "Dude, do your superpower right now." And eventually you may have to, you know, get more uh into the admin side, but we're trying to we want Ian to be the player picker that got him here. Yeah, I it is a fascinating setup, but I do think that Matt has kind of the right demeanor for this role and everything since that whole group came together has been very feels smooth. It feels like everybody has their lane. They're comfortable operating in it. Anytime those kind of get stressed with questions from the media, it's it's the answers are all aligned and and I think that is how it has been so far. And one of the things um to kind of go back to 2015 16 real quick and then I want to ask you about Kevin Spansky but I'll stick with Mount Ryan because one of the things during that era I grew up a Falcons fan remember those years very well and to me it was one of the first real lessons in kind of coaching because at the end of that 2015 season Dan Quinn's first year a lot of people Kyle Shanahan was not very popular in Atlanta I think at that time and >> especially at Flowery Branch at that time. >> Yeah. and and it was it was a situation where you saw some of the growing pains and then certainly you saw the other side of that in 2016. But I think it was Kevin Clark who works for ESPN now who I first heard this from and you would be a great person to probably know this as well >> is at that time the playaction drop back >> was I think something not new to Matt but maybe uncomfortable compared to what he had always done which is more of the straight drop back. I'm reading the defense while I'm going backwards. Turning his back to the defense put him outside of his comfort zone, but was essential to unlocking kind of this offense. What What do you know about that time? >> Well, I would say it goes even deeper. And Kevin's awesome. I love, you know, hearing Kevin's revelations on football. Um, you know, really it was a um, you know, there was a disconnect where Kyle had always wanted things done a certain way because he is a schematic genius and his way works and the answers are there, but Matt was kind of like, "Hey dude, I've like done a lot of things here and I'm pretty good at all the things you talked about and and just, you know, Kyle was on the sidelines. There was a lot of tension. Um, so they had what some people have referred to as marriage counseling, others have referred to as a, you know, have beers and air it out session, but they all went out to, um, Tom House, uh, the former major league pitcher, his quarterback, um, you know, academy basically out in Southern California and spent a couple days and took personality tests and and did have beers. >> Myers bringing it up and and and really dug into it. And Mike McDaniel at the time was in rehab, I believe. So, he wasn't there. Uh, he's obviously turned his life around that way. But, you've got um, you know, you've got Dan Quinn, you've got Kyle. Um, I don't think Thomas Demetruff, the GM, actually attended that, but it was um, Kyle and and Dan Quinn and then Matt Laflur was the quarterback coach um, and Matt Ryan. And, um, famously there are a lot of great moments and it is immortalized in my book, The Why is Everything: Story of Football Rivalry of Revolution available everywhere. I hope people check it out. But um you know there's a moment where Matt Laflur is told by uh one of the uh I believe Tom House I tells Matt Laflur that he is a specific anatomical region that we should probably mention on this broadcast, but it's like not a place you want to be in between two very headstrong uh people. And so Matt was kind of getting it both ways. you know, he he would get yelled at by Kyle because Kyle was frustrated at Matt Ryan. And then Matt Ryan would, you know, turn to Matt Laflur and say, "Well, you tell Kyle Black." And Lafleur was kind of caught in the middle. And uh but they they did do some things. Not only did they did they really get to know each other better coming out of that, but um they changed some things. They they decided Kyle could go up to the press box and he could just yell at Matt Laflur on the phone and then Matt Ryan could yell at Matt Laflur in person. But there was it it was a buffer there. And then um and then you know you mentioned some of the schematic things. Uh but Dan Quinn told me something that was really interesting. He said we wanted to give Matt Ryan a win too. And one of the things Matt Ryan had wanted was they had this dating back to Dirk Cutter. They had this system for two-minute offense where it was like they had like numbers one to nine um that they had already drilled so well >> and Matt was so good at that. That was such a defining part of his early career >> huddle. Yeah. So in in no huddle in two minute you could just call it you know boom eight six and everyone knew and uh and Kyle was very resistant to that and so Dan Quinn kind of talked Kyle into like hey let's try that let's give Matt a win and you know one coach Rich Rich Gangarella who went on to you know from that staff to be um an offensive coordinator with the Broncos and and a really good coach in the NFL told me that out of that came like the greatest two-minute no huddle, you know, thing that that that group, the Shanahan group had ever, you know, uh, created and and that was really a win for Matt Ryan, spurred by Dan Quinn. So, yeah, it is really fascinating to look at all that. And, you know, I know a large part of America will always just turn it into a caricature and be like, they didn't win. They blew the league. Like, we know, but like let's not forget that wasn't just they weren't just killing the Patriots in the Super Bowl. They tore apart the NFL that year. The offensive numbers were insane. Um, you know, Kyle obviously springboarded to become a a co head coach ever since in one place, which is a lot. Has been at two Super Bowls. Matt Ryan was the MVP. Um, you know, and is now back here. So, I I would I would love to see Arthur Blake and the Atlanta Falcons and Matt Ryan celebrate hoisting that Lombardi trophy that I was sure was going to be hoisted that day. But, um, you know, until that happens, we'll, you know, there will always be that hedge, but I want the public to understand like that was a that was a baller situation. >> Absolutely. I mean, it should be remembered as one of kind of the coolest offenses in league history. just the talent combined with the scheme and people forget the Patriots defense going into that Super Bowl was number one in the league by like a wide margin and what they did to start the game. It was it felt like the culmination of everything, but we don't need to linger on that game. We uh >> correct. >> We'll uh we can we can end it there. Um, so Kevin Spansky is is fascinating to me because we talk a lot about, right, Shawn McVey and Kyle Shanahan and kind of coming from the Gary Kubak uh lineage and you can date that back to Mike Shanahan and then to Bill Walsh and and the tree is there, but I feel like Kevin Stfansky doesn't often get mentioned with a lot of these younger offensive kind- of minded head coaches. Even though when you look at at what he has built, it feels very sustainable. It feels very like dependable and solid. And there is some iteration in that the big personnel packages which is kind of coming back around. He's been in that for a little bit. So what can you tell me about Kevin Stfansky in kind of that lineage of all of these coaches? >> Well, it's a great point and part of the reason he doesn't get as as much attention. Uh part of it is he's not going to, you know, dress cool and be funny like McDaniel and he's not going to yell and scream like Kyle. You know, he's a very very even keel measured personality. And some people have tried to turn that into a criticism at times. Other people have cited it as a a really cool guiding force. Obviously, the Falcons uh especially now as constituted are are viewing it that way. Um I mean I would start with this. First of all, you know, to be a two-time NFL coach of the year in the same organization to me not only says something about what a good coach that person is, but what kind of organization that is. And I I don't want to just crap on another organization and I know that there's a lot of talented people in that Browns building and you know I I there they believe they can get it rolling there but it's it's not you know it's not the place that most NFL head coaches dream of going into and you know immediately feeling like we're going to win and sustain it. And so for Kevin to twice be impressive enough in that role that voters were like I think he's the best coach this year. that tells you that, you know, he is has an ability to kind of, you know, transcend some circumstances and and be really steady and, you know, have it be really cool. So, I think specifically in this situation, it fits well with the stew of Matt Ryan. First time obviously, you know, incredibly important figure in this franchise, but first time doing his role. Ian Cunningham, a guy whose player picking prowess has elevated him to this role, but first time um as the decision maker. And then um now you have an old pro who is probably I'm g I'll talk to Kevin a little later today, but my guess is he's thinking like, wow, this is a pretty cool like you know like Arthur's good owner and you know they they kind of know what they're doing here now. And I say this with some regret because, you know, as someone who wrote that book, I am the biggest Raheem Morris fan of the world. I am, you know, still really bummed that he didn't get a third year. You know, stuff happens. Um, the way that the Falcons finished last year gave me a lot of hope about what could happen in in a very very competitive division because I don't think the margins in this division are, you know, appreciable. I think, you know, the Bucks have have had really good moments with Baker, but there's some legitimate questions heading into this season whether that could implode. You know, Dave Canelis kind of blew my mind last year with how high he got the Panthers and really battled the Rams headtohead in that playoff game. Could have won that game. They did. >> So, I they have my attention. And, you know, and I don't think the Saints are as far off um you know, as as some people may. I I think you know Brandon Staley is going to yeah do a really cool job with that defense in year two and you know I hear the quarterback has some stuff to him. But if you ask me on paper you know do the Falcons have a real chance to compete in this division for a title this year. I I think yes. And you know Kevin is certainly a a a decent part of that. Just having that old pro who's so steady and, you know, isn't going to ride highs and lows, I think is going to just, you know, be very very calm as this plays out. >> I got to be honest, that was You could be the commissioner of the NFC South if that job ever comes open. That was one of the best uh sell jobs of the division that I've I've heard. I mean, I it's I'm I'm kind of trying to be complimentary to all four teams, but I'm also saying like I don't think there's any team where you go, "Oh my god, they're definitely, you know, the team to beat." Which is cool if you're parody. Yeah. And if you're Kevin and you're the and you're mad and you're the Falcons, you're like, "Yeah, um we think we can go get it." So the mentioning Kevin's time kind of in Cleveland, I think one of the the hallmarks obviously of that time, but the coolest thing to me is how he was able to do it with so many different ingredients, right? Like the main ingredient of your dish was changing constantly for him. And he was able to top chef adapt and be like, "All right, I'll pair it with this. I'll pair it with this." Which is starkly different than kind of what we just talked about with Kyle Shanahan, which is here is my system. I'll find the right driver to get in this car, whether that's you or you or you. >> Correct. But I'm not changing the car. >> Yes. >> So those are two very different philosophies. I I think the older that I get and the more that I see, I appreciate somebody who is able to understand all the different flavors and how they can operate together. This is a unique and specific situation here in Atlanta because you have a team that has been kind of on the precipice for a little while pushing with different iterations and trying different combinations. is in some ways is that like a more challenging situation to step into. And given Kevin's experience, I think he is is a great person to throw into this, but I also sometimes hear people like, I'd rather draft a guy cuz he's got no bad habits that I got to work again. Like I'm throwing a lot at you here. >> No, I mean I I I'm very clear on this like and there going back to my book, The Wise is Everything, which I will plug again because you so kindly teed me up that way. Um, the book starts with Kyle in that moment in the Super Bowl where he has to make a decision and he thinks back to something that Matt Ryan always used to say to him kind of in a in a little bit of a, you know, costic way, which is players over plays. Like, bro, it's, you know, in the end, and Kyle in that moment decides, I'm going to have Matt Ryan try to throw the ball to Julio Jones. like he he actually puts aside his, you know, brilliant coaching sensibilities and agrees like I'm going to trust my guy. So that's my tea up. But like, you know what? I would rather have Van Robinson. Like I I would rather have the best players and figure out how to, you know, make my schemes come to life through them. But I and I I would actually relate this back to something that I saw with Kyle and that staff um when they were in Atlanta because I um you know I I covered Mike Shanahan very closely when he was the 49er offensive coordinator and then with those great Bronco teams and he had Rod Smith who was undrafted at Ed McCaffrey who I think was a fifth round pick as his white outs and they were really good and there was a a kind of a a Shanahanism. Not only are the running backs somewhat pliable, but you don't have to draft a receiver in the first round. You can find the Rod Smiths and at Macafferies. And I remember talking to Mike McDaniel after Atlanta when they were in San Francisco and um talking about that very thing. And he said, "Well, that kind of changed a little when we got Julio." He's like, he's like, "We kind of felt like, yeah, you don't have to draft one in the first round, but if you have Julio Jones, it kind of makes things different." Right. So, I think that's my long way of saying I would rather whatever my scheme and I think Kevin, you know, Kevin knows all >> different ways to do it, but like let's start with, you know, Beja Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pitts, you know, you have some dudes. And, um, I think you'd rather have dudes, uh, you know, than not. And, you know, and I think I like I'll leave I'll tie it in one more time. uh was on the radio in San Francisco when they were talking about you know the 49er defensive coordinator hire this year and you know Kyle and Raheem are very very close from you know decades back and so there's that dynamic but somebody said I think the host said you know do you not do you shy away from hiring a Raheem because he's probably just going to be like Salah and go get another head coaching job and I said I think you get the best coach you know and worry about it later and Rahee's the as coach. So, go do that. So, yeah, in general, like give Kevin Sansky the best toys and let's see him play. >> You mentioned uh Bjan and so I recently just did a story on atlantfalcons.com. I'll plug it as well. A cut above. >> Everybody, everybody needs to read that including me as soon as we get done with this. >> In the piece, I I spoke to Fred Taylor, Tiki Barber, Edger, and James. I wanted to get a sense. >> My guys, my people. >> They were I've grown up. They were some of my favorite players to watch and I wanted to get a sense of just like what makes Bjan Robinson special in the eyes of those who are among the most special to ever play the position. >> And even in talking to them, they were invoking names like Walter Payeyton and Latian Tomlinson and Marshall Faulk. And so I want to pose the question to you like you have covered this league for a long time. You've seen some of the very best players not just at the running back position but Jerry Rice and you know like everybody that we would think of in this league. Where does Bjon fall kind of in that hierarchy of specialness? I guess >> I mean I think a I don't know yet and b honestly I haven't watched closely enough and like he has my attention right like it's undeniable. And you know what Raheem said last year you know Raheem doesn't just go around throwing false compliments out and he said he's the best player in the league. I'm like okay well >> somebody who's coached Tulio, right? So yeah he understands best player in the league seems good. So yeah no he has my attention. He seems like he's made up of the right stuff. I'm looking forward to trying to get to know him a little bit and and watch him more closely. But, um, you you asked the right guys. Uh, you know, Ezra James, Fred Taylor. God, when he was healthy was low tiki, unbelievable. And what he did, you know, in his 30s. Um, Edin's like probably like >> one of maybe my all-time favorite dude in this, you know, crazy world I've been in. and uh you know probably has like four of the five greatest quotes I've ever gotten and I could do an entire episode on him but uh I'm trying to think of which quote I I'll I'll just give one. So Sports Illustrated sends me um Memorial Day weekend to Miami um to hang out with Edin which is an all night affair and I don't even think he was partying but we would like bowl all night and play pool and I mean it was insane. and he tried to get me to go to Cancun at the end of the weekend impromptu with him and I Irish goodbye them. I It was like 4 in the morning. We'd been together for like 4 days and I was like, "All right, cool. I'll meet you at the airport." And I just flew to California home because I was like, I can't do this. >> You're like, I can't do Cancun. >> Yeah. Like I just I'm going to So, um I wrote this big SI story. Well, it turned out that that weekend we were coorting. the Colts had a voluntary mini camp that he did not attend. And it was odd because both Bill Polon, the autocratic GM, and uh uh Pton Manning, the quarterback, uh publicly threw a little shade at Edgerin for missing it, which you're not, you know, supposed to do, but you know, Payton's the sheriff and >> yeah, they had Super Bowl as was very headstrong, so they kind of uh they kind of did. So my editor calls me um and says, "Hey, listen. This has become a thing." So I think we need to put a line in the story because you were with him when he was supposed to be at the mini capab. I think you need to get a quote from Edin and you know have him respond. So I call Edin probably in uh Cancun and I go, "EJ," he's like, "Hey, Silver, why aren't you here?" I go, "Hey." I go, "You know this like Cole voluntary mini camp, you know, blah blah blah." And he goes, I go, "Do you have a quote for me?" And he go, he paused and he goes, "I only went to college for 2 and 1/2 years, but even I know the meaning of the word voluntary." That was the quote. >> That's uh yeah, that that's spoken like a man in Cancun after uh a couple of days. >> I mean, I cannot convey how many and here I am in Indie the Indie area right now and it's it's all flooding back. Uh we man we had some we had some great times. He um so if he's saying nice things about Bejon then I'm 100% in because that is low-key one of the uh you know the greatest runners that and receivers you know greatest greatest multi-purpose backs we've ever had right there with Marshall and and Roger Craig and Christian. It's you know so yeah I'm excited. and I want to see more. And uh you know uh it it uh it's good that he's on a team with other weapons where they can diversify it a little bit too. >> Absolutely. Uh yeah, I'm I'm always excited every Sunday to watch number seven suit up. All right, last one I got for you, Michael. Um so, you know, we we kind of talked about where the Falcons have been, where they hope to go, and in your experience, obviously the clearest indicator win loss record, right? like the performance on the field is what matters if if the team goes out there and is is winning 11 games where none of this is going to matter. But outside of the record, are there any indicators in kind of year one of a coaching staff or a a new way of approaching things that in your experience show, hey, this this team is is making the strides that they want to be making and that they are making improvements even if those like on the- field results aren't manifesting. >> Yeah, these are the hallmarks. >> It's a really good question. You know, one of the things you look for is how do they finish, right? And I know we're coming off a season where they finished great and they still made a coaching change, but like if a team I think sometimes, you know, coaches come in and they say, "Hey, just listen to me and do it my way and you'll see the results." And it's hard because if you're, you know, Dan Campbell went through it in Detroit, you're losing. You're losing. You're losing. You're like, "My god, they're not going to believe a word." But then sometimes it just kicks in. For him, it was after year one, but and then players go, "Oh, oh, oh, yes." like this guy actually might know what he's talking about. We like and it really helps I think having the carryover of Jeff Brook who is you know one of the best coaches in this game, one of the best one of the best dudes obviously and he's he's on our minds a lot in you know in general. But uh that helps a lot. I I think listen I I just want to see um you know I I just kind of want to see it build and so the good news is they could win the division wall doing that and it would be killer. Um but you know I I I think you're right. You're looking for like those little more imperceptible sides. I think you'll see a building that has alignment. I think you'll see players who, you know, buy in and and you you won't see a lot of guys going rogue and being being, you know, weird about it, which is all going to be positive. And I think Kevin's personality will really keep things um measured and even Keel. Um you know, I I think that they will probably have some challenges um up front and it's, you know, it's been two un unfortunate, you know, situations. Obviously, injuries are brutal and you know, you just you hate any of that. Um, so I I think can they stay in games? Can they control the ball? Can they outscore some people? Um, as you know, they've got young linebackers who are really really exciting to me. Um, you know, it could get really cool. So, yeah, I think you're right. I I think the plan here is not a one-year plan. Um, you know, we and we still have a young quarterback in the building that I'm really really interested in. Speaking of injuries, you know, let's see what happens there and and in the future. So, um, I'm hopeful. Uh, I haven't been in Atlanta forever. It's my bad. U, here I am in Carmel, Indiana, but I will I will come to the great city of Atlanta hopefully soon. Um, and uh, I hope to check it out. Well, thank you so much, Michael, for taking the time to sit down with me in India Indianapolis. Indiana. Yeah, I know we're we're not actually in Indianapolis, but it's close. It's not It's not too far away. Um, but hopefully neither are the Falcons. Look at that segue. >> That was pretty good. >> Yeah. Thank you, Evan. >> You're a You're a broadcast professional doing it for a minute. I respect it. >> I'm on my way. Uh, but if you want to plug your book one more time, now's the opportunity. You guys, if you're a Falcons fan and you have not yet read the why is everything, it's going to really enhance your reality. And also, it starts with Matt Ryan, literally. So, now that he is back running the organization you love, I think you will really enjoy it. And, um, yeah, it's it, you know, as we said in the beginning, it was a really, really cool slice in time with all those great coaches on that staff and, you know, Jeff Albbrrook being one of them and he's obviously still here. So, uh, thank you for the allowing me to to shamelessly plug and thanks for having me and I'm excited to see, uh, how this plays out. >> Of course, we'll have to do it again sometime. >> For sure. Thank you so much. All right, we are back with Know the Foe and we're getting ready to talk about the NFC South. That's right. We've reached the portion of Know the Foe where we're going to discuss the division a little bit. It's hard to believe that we are almost finished with this segment. It's been fun. I've hope you've enjoyed it. But let's uh dig into the Tampa Bay Buccaneers a little bit today, shall we? So, the Buccaneers last year, as you may remember, started out as one of the hottest teams in the NFL. I'm talking redhot. They had a 6-2 record going into their by-week. And our very own Tory Melaney, I don't want to remind you of this, but she had them as high as number four in her weekly power rankings that week as they were going into their buy. So, the Buccaneers were legitimately impressing people to begin the season last year. And they look like, okay, could they join that class of the NFC that has been kind of like the Vikings and the Lions and the Packers and the 49ers, the Rams over the last little bit? Could the Bucks make that leap? Well, after the by-week, things kind of fell apart for Tampa Bay. That turned out to be as high as they could climb literally in the season and in the power rankings, it turns out because as hot as they were to start the year, they cooled off to an equal and even greater degree down the stretch. The Buccaneers went 2-7 during their final nine games, and they finished ultimately in a three-way tie with Carolina and Atlanta. And because of the tiebreaker, because they dropped both games to Carolina, they ended up second in the division. So a team that through eight games had the best record in the entire conference somehow missed the playoffs. So they had a lot of I think soulsearching to do this off seasonason and and that is kind of leads me to the narrative about the team because on one hand this feels like a group in transition and on the other hand to me at least Tampa Bay still feels like a very familiar team. I don't I don't know if I've ever seen something quite like this where the offseason seems to be geared towards all right we're kind of like turning the page. we're changing a little bit of who we have been because maybe we bumped up against the ceiling of that and yet I still look over there and and Baker Mayfield is back with a lot of his surrounding offensive cast and yes Levante David is gone but when you look at what Todd BS and the defensive side coming back there's a lot of familiar faces there as well. So, the Buccaneers do have two new quarter coordinators in place, and that will, I think, change some things up and refresh some things, but one of those new coordinators is a familiar face to Falcons fans, and that would be Zack Robinson. He and Baker Mayfield worked together for a brief period out with the Los Angeles Rams. And if you'll recall, Baker had an amazing, I think, Monday Night Football game, and Zack Robinson had a big hand in making him feel comfortable. So now he is there full-time with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to work with Baker and that offense. Again, I'm really curious personally to see what that's going to look like. I think there's a cat and mouse game to be had between Zack Robinson and Jeff Olrich that maybe I'll get into here in just a second. So he's down there on the offense. Defensively, they promoted George Edwards. He was their defensive passing game coordinator and now he's their defensive coordinator. So Todd B's kind of handing over the reigns. However, it's notable he came up through the Buccaneer system. So, I wouldn't expect the philosophy, the overall maybe design of the defense to change all that much. But, you do still have another uh new driver, I should say, in the driver's seat. And, you know, we'll see what George Edwards what his flavor is and what his fingerprint on the defense will be. So, the biggest departure this offseason I I think is fairly obvious. Anytime you say goodbye to a wide receiver who had more than a thousand yards in his first 11 seasons, uh, nobody else has ever done that, we should almost name this the Mike Evans departure award, right? Because he he has been one of the biggest, I think, losses for that organization. Not just in terms of, again, I mentioned the productivity, but what he meant to that franchise. So, he he is far and away kind of their biggest departure. Uh, I was reminded recently that he and Jake Matthews were teammates on the same college team at Texas A&M with Johnny Manzel. Uh, so that is just a very special team in in the history of college football. I have nothing more to say about that. Moving on. Uh, a special shout out to Levante David. We talked about Mike Evans. He is the number one guy that departed. But Levante David was always one of my favorite linebackers. I always viewed him as as like right there with Bobby Wagner. To me, he was just Bobby Wagner in the NFC South. And because he was kind of in the NFC South and the Seahawks were playing in Super Bowls, Bobby Wagner became Bobby Wagner. But Levante David, 14-year career, 250 games, 15 games started, 1,172 solo tackles, the fourth most in NFL history. 73 pass defenses, 42 and a half sacks, 33 forced fumbles, 13 interceptions. If the Mets can tip their hats to Chipper Jones, I can tip my hat to Levante David. Heck of a career by you. Um, the biggest addition this off season, I I think it's Ruben Bane Jr., the 15th overall pick. We saw what he did in Miami the last three seasons, 20 and a half sacks. Uh there, you know, a lot of debate about him coming out of the draft, but now he's in the division. Uh I actually really like Tampa Bay's draft class as a whole. Josiah Troder in the second round linebacker out of Missouri. He was a guy I was kind of looking at because of what the Falcons needs maybe were. Ted Hurst, a player I kind of fell in love with as a wide receiver out of Georgia State. So, they've got some good players that I'm excited to to watch twice a year moving forward. Uh, and the team identity to wrap it all up with two new coordinators. That is the wrinkle. However, again, it it kind of feels weird to even say that too much is going to be different. Again, when you have the players Amika Ibuka, Chris Godwin, Jaylen McMillan, Baker Mayfield, Cade Uton, the offensive line has continuity. Your running backs are back there. Bucky Irving, like everybody's kind of back. And then defensively, sure, the rookies will probably play a new role, but I do still expect this to be Todd B's his design. So that makes me believe that you're going to kind of get a flavor of Falcons, Bucks games that we've had in the past. And the real interesting variation to me is Zack Robinson and Baker Mayfield against Jeff Olrich and Jesse Bates and Divine Diablo and you know everybody on that kind of side. And I want to give kind of the initial edge I think to Olrich because of just the pure nature of his defense which is multiple and moving and a little chaotic. And I just think that's going to be harder to say like, well, here's what I saw last year, the year before, and so I know exactly what it's going to be because it's always evolving and ever changing. And that's what I love about Jeff Brook's defense. All right, Falcons fans, we are back with another know your foe segment. You just heard about the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Now, I am staying in the NFC South for the arch rival, the one that everybody hates, the New Orleans Saints. I'm really excited, though, to talk about the New Orleans Saints because I think they're a really interesting bunch. And I I know that there are probably a lot of people listening and watching being like, "How dare you call them interesting?" But like, what other word was I supposed to use? They kind of are. So, let's get into this. First question, as always, who were the New Orleans Saints last year? The Saints went six and 11 in 2025, finishing last in the NFC South, which, you know, okay, but there was a three-way tie up at the top. So, take that with what you will. But the record in and of itself for the New Orleans Saints doesn't tell the whole story. So, let let's just break it down from start to finish because they started the year 2 and 10, but they ended up winning four of their final five games with the biggest development for the New Orleans Saints being the emergence of second round pick Tyler Shuck at quarterback. Once Chuck took over, the offense really looked significantly more functional. uh that he went 5 and4 as a starter throwing for 2,384 yards, 10 touchdowns, t six interceptions. So, the way that I would describe the Saints last year is that they started to look like a different team late in the season, and I remember Will and I even having conversations last year about like the Saints that started the year didn't feel like the Saints that ended the year. And I think that distinction matters because that's why I think there's a bit more optimism in New Orleans that isn't based in the six and 11 record. It's based on what they saw from Shuck down the stretch and the belief that Kell Moore's system really started to click towards the end of the season. So where did that leave them in the offseason? What was the biggest offseason narrative for this team? It's still Tyler Chuck. it it's still the the quarterback conversation in New Orleans. The Saints have really completely handed him the keys to the operation. There's really no quarterback competition this year. And the expectation is that year two in Kellor system should tell us whether or not Chuck is actually the guy that New Orleans can build around. But not just in that, but they didn't really sit in on the roster they had. They've actually done more I think this off season than what we have seen the Saints do recently which was they went out and they added legitimate veteran pieces that aren't so veteran that they're considered old. uh Travis ETN or or Achan I should say, Kayen Ellis who Falcons fans know well, David Edwards, Noah Fant among others, while also adding a really interesting young draft class led by number eight overall pick Jordan Tyson. So the narrative for this off season was the the Saints aren't really rebuilding anymore. They they have who they think is their quarterback in Chuck. They have their coach and Kell Moore and now they're trying to build a roster around those two pieces. That's why again there's so much more optimism around the Saints than you might accept expect from a 6 and 11 team. There's also just culturally around the New Orleans Saints. It's a bit of an interesting shift that I feel like they've experienced over the last year is that the Saints really do seem to finally be moving away from the older post Drew Breeze era and toward a younger more internally driven team. Five of last year's eight captains are back, but the major veteran leaders like Deario Davis are gone. Which leads us to the biggest offseason departure, which was Deario Davis. This one's pretty clear, I think, to me and probably to everyone. Davis left New Orleans and returned to the Jets. And that's not losing a starting linebacker. That's really losing the voice of this Saints defense, an emotional leader of the entire organization. And it is interesting because in this conversation we have to talk about Kaden Ellis because you're replacing really Deario Davis with Kaden Ellis who Falcons fans, people listening, you should know really really well. And I think this is a good time as any to talk about Kaden Ellis and and him returning to the New Orleans Saints. And you know that's where he got his start and that's where he kind of came into his own with Ryan Nielson before he move made the move. both Neielson and Kaden Ellis to the Falcons. So curious to see what Kaden Ellis ultimately looks like in this defense for the Saints. Is it going to look like what he's been doing of late in the last couple of years with Jeff Olrich and this Atlanta Falcons defense? Because what he was doing with the Atlanta Falcons was pretty special. And as Jeff Olrich said, it's going to be tough for the Falcons to replace what Kaden Ellis was. But the Saints are using Kaden Ellis to essentially replace Demario Davis. And I'll give Kaden Ellis his flowers. I loved working with Kaden Ellis, getting to know him. I loved watching him play. If you're going to try and replace someone who was a voice of the organization and somebody that really rallied around uh not just the defense, but the team and Deario Davis, you you're pretty well set with with Kaden Ellis being that replacement. So, I I'll say that. Now, who was the biggest addition this off season? I wish I could say Kaden Ellis and I I'll give him I already gave him his flower so I won't talk more there but I think it has to be Travis ETN Jr. Travis Han Jr. whatever he wants to be called I will call him that. Um they signed him to a 4-year deal worth $48 million and Kalen Moore envisioned using him as part of a really like key running back committee. But now with Alvin Kamar's MCL injury kind of changes the immediate picture for this offense. Kamara is expected to miss four to six weeks which puts I think even more on ETN's plate early in the season. But I do think that the the fact that the Saints went out and got him and acquired him is that it kind of shows something about the Saints philosophy, which is that they want to make life easier for Tyler Shuck, which I've said this before, you hear it all the time. There's nothing a young quarterback loves more than a very impressive run game. And we've seen what Travis ETN can do across the board and over the course of his career. Um, but it's really just like don't make your young quarterback throw the ball 40 times every single Sunday and ask him to carry the franchise on his back. Run the ball. Create explosive plays. Use play action. Let Chuck operate rather than constantly having to rescue the offense. Like create a run game that's sustainable and really allows Shuck to maneuver within the offense where it's not all on him to move the ball downfield. So, that's the biggest offseason addition, which I think makes a lot of sense. As much as I want to talk more about Kaden Ellis, can't just yet. So, finally, what is the team identity and how does that match up with the Atlanta Falcons? New Orleans identity is physical, versatile. They want to become more runoriented with the football, with a young quarterback, who they want to grow into the centerpiece. And I say that and I think that's a lot of pressure that you could put on a young quarterback, but really no one needs Tyler Shuck to be the next coming of Drew Brees. They just need him to be efficient. They needed to protect the football. They needed to make enough explosive plays to allow the run game, some space to breathe and some space to work and then allow the defense to carry some of that burden as well. I think defensively Brandon Staley has a lot of athleticism to work with, a lot of versatility. Again, talking about Kaden Ellis, particularly up front that in that front seven, they want to be disruptive and multiple rather than simply looking in one look. So, stylistically, I actually think the Saints and the Falcons may have more in common than what you may think. And not just because they a lot of kind of what I just said adheres itself to also kind of describing the Atlanta Falcons, but I think that there's a key difference between where the Saints are and where the Falcons are. The Saints kind of are sitting in this spot where they really do think and believe that they have their quarterback. Now, it's just a matter of how good can Tyler Shuck be and what can he ultimately become with another or with at least a full year under his belt based on what they saw in the final half of the season last year. The Falcons is it's a little bit different where it's like we have a new head coach. We're still figuring out exactly what this offense and quarterback situation will look like. Now, Atlanta has more of established stars in Bjan Robinson, Drake London, Kyle Pittz, while New Orleans is really betting heavily on Shuck's development, and defensively they want to be aggressive. The Falcons still have a lot of things to figure out in terms of pass rush, not having Jaylen Walker for the year, not having James Pierce Jr. for the first eight games of the season. But I think the biggest thing I want to emphasize, and this is where I'll wrap up, is I don't think you can go into the 2026 year and approach the Saints, whether at the beginning of the year or at the end of the year, like they're that 6 and 11 team from last year. I think the second half of 2025 changed the perception you have to have of the New Orleans Saints. And now we're finding out whether the late season surge that the Saints had in 2025 was the the beginning of something real or if it was simply a good month of football where they kind of just caught a little bit of fire. That's where we land on the Saints and we'll learn a lot about them as the season goes on. And obviously a big Monday Night Football bout in week four which is huge. Um I know I'm looking forward to that one. So, thank you guys so much for hanging with me, listening to me yap about the saints, which I know many of us don't really want to hear about, but you know, better to know thy enemy, right? Like, so thank you. We are going to be back shortly with even more podcast. Will is up obviously in joint practices like we just talked about. So, thank you guys for joining us and we will talk to you all real soon.