Exposing Desolation (and the Enemy) | Ignatian Rule 13 Explained

I as soon as I saw the guy, there was something in his eyes where which may sound a little dramatic, but you just you can kind of tell with people, you know? >> Yeah, well, you could. >> And I was like, "Hmm, okay, I need to be careful." And unfortunately, my rookie goes He goes, "You have a felony warrant." I was like, "No!" >> [laughter] >> He goes, "Now we're going to fight." >> The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. >> I didn't know this [music] was a fight. >> That's why you're losing. >> Today we are beginning either to domesticate the devil or else to deny him. He is most powerful when he is denied. >> Welcome to the Devils in the Details. The devil may be in the details, but God is on the throne. >> Amen. >> We are almost done with the series of spiritual warfare and discerning spirits. I think we have what? One more after this, >> One or two, yeah. >> one or two. >> Well, you know, this is we're on 13, so we still have one after this. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's assuming we we stick with just the the first rules. I am writing a book on the second rules, but I don't know. >> Yeah. >> We'll see. I'm I'm not not far along enough yet. >> So, rule 13, the power of exposing the enemy's efforts. >> Yeah, so this So, there are two rules that what There's one rule that everyone who teaches discerning spirits agrees is the most important rule. That's five, which is never make a change to your to your uh commitments, spiritual commitments that you've made in consolation. Never make a change when you're in desolation. Rule 13 is generally agreed upon as the second most important rule, second most powerful rule. And it's predicated on a simple idea, and that is demons are weakened by certain behaviors and strengthened by others or encouraged or discouraged. They're very discouraged, as a general principle, whenever anything is discovered about them by somebody other than or either way, but certainly somebody who's being oppressed and they discover it, that's bad. Far more difficult for them is when you know, let's say I'm struggling with desolation and I and I, you know, become aware of it, but then I make you aware of it being, you know, that's that's very uh discouraging to them. Yeah. Very discouraging. So, the [clears throat] question in then is how do you do that? And this is what St. Ignatius discovered this a rule. Um why don't you go ahead and read the rule. The rule's a little wordy, but we'll simplify it. >> one. >> Yeah. >> Likewise, he conducts himself as a he is an enemy. Likewise, he conducts himself as a false lover in wishing to remain secret and not be revealed. For a dissolute man who, speaking with evil intention, makes dishonorable advances to a daughter of a good father or a wife of a good husband, wishes his words and persuasions to be secret. On the contrary, displeases him very much when the daughter reveals to her father or the wife to her husband his false words and depraved intention because he easily perceives that he will not be able to succeed with the undertaking begun. In the same way, when the enemy of the human nature brings his wiles and persuasions to the soul, to the just soul, he wishes and desires that they be received and kept in secret. But when one reveals them to one's good confessor or to another spiritual person who knows his deceits or malicious designs, it weighs on him very much because he perceives that he will not be able to succeed with the malicious undertaking that he has begun since his manifest deceits have been revealed. >> So, I want [clears throat] to We've covered this in a little different way before, but it's very much worth digging into again. So, when when you're let's just say when you're foggy uh you and I both foggy today. >> [laughter] >> When you're foggy and desolate, I'm I'm not necessarily desolate, but uh or you're you're just, you know, tired and by the way, it's when you're tired, it's opportune time for the enemy to work, so you got to be careful. When you're foggy and desolate and he proposes ideas that cause you emotional anxiety that's what we call desolation. >> Mhm. >> Um there's a a number of ways to bring that to light. The the first way to bring that to light is that you write it down. >> Mhm. >> You know, you get it out of your head. And and I promise you for those listening, I don't I don't know if you've ever done this, but it's been a practice of mine for decades, though I don't do it anymore habitually. But I did it for decades to get free is when I'm experiencing desolation or or spiritual battle I write down what I'm hearing on a piece of paper. Have you ever done it? Have you ever tried it? >> No, I did recommend to guys, I mean, cuz this is a practice that has a lot of psychological backing to good psychological backing to it to where guys who are struggling with pornography, I would have them write if when you are starting to feel tempted write down where you are, what you're doing, and how you feel. >> Mhm. >> And that provide number one, it helps break you out of that focus on the temptation itself. >> Yeah. >> But then it also reveals to you what might be triggering you. So, it's a similar situation where I'm in desolation what am I feeling? What is the lie that I'm being told? >> Yeah. >> If you write that out, it helps kind of break that cycle for one cuz you're no longer just sitting there listening and stewing and whatever is going on. >> It's waking you up to what the enemy is doing in you. And that foundationally takes away the enemy's power. It dissuades the enemy. And and you know, and I do think there's both a psychological and a spiritual principle, and I don't know where they the two separate or are distinct, but I just know for years when I was dealing with the junk from my childhood, my own sinful life, whatever, when I'd start feeling desolation, I would write down the lies that I'm hearing. And just writing them down diminished their power. I could feel it. >> Yeah. >> And then of course, then writing down the lie, we which we talked about in rule seven, I think, writing [clears throat] down the lie, writing down the opposite truth, renouncing the lie, affirming the truth, then it's another level of freedom. So that So there's some similarities to that to this rule. But this rule has us taking it a step further, which is when you're in desolation, essentially, tell someone. >> Mhm. >> You know, >> your confessor or holy person. >> Yeah, the the the the key is it says, "But when one reveals them to one's good confessor or to another spiritual person who knows his deceit and wishes malicious designs that weighs on him." So it can't be and when when Ignatius is using the word confessor, it's the same thing as spiritual director. >> Right. >> Can be spiritual friend, you know, whatever. >> Well, same thing with with holy person, right? >> Yeah. >> this is slightly off topic, but I've been doing a lot of research cuz there's been some goofy videos floating around about what spiritual direction is and isn't, and they're completely objectively, patently wrong. >> Uh-huh. >> And when you look at the writing of I'm encouraged reading it here for the first time listening in that frame of mind, you know, about to do the series on direction. That's That's what exactly what he's describing. Not just he he separates director, confessor, right? Which ideally should be your director but also a holy person with Right. falls under that same category. So, I don't know. That's a little bit of a >> Oh, you went to the Oh, you I see the point you're making. We should we should use it. So, what we're Jordan's talking about is we're going to do it series on spiritual direction dot on Divine Intimacy Radio. >> On well, somewhere. >> Somewhere we're going to do it. On errors on spiritual direction. But [laughter] I mean one of our outlets. Um But yeah, you're right because Ignatius doesn't say tend it to a priest which is >> Yeah. >> You know. >> One of the premise. So, it's a little bit tangential, but what people should who are listening should take away from this is it's you don't have to just take it to your You should. That's ideal, I would say. If you have a good confessor and they know you and then you have the >> And they're helpful with these things. >> Right. And if it isn't confession and you know, especially if you've been struggling with it for a long time, you can receive those graces through the sacrament of reconciliation. But also the common thing is the quickest thing in my opinion and we do it here all the time >> Yeah. >> at the retreat center is I'm struggling, you know, >> Yeah. >> and this is what I'm struggling with and just saying it out loud to somebody else has a profound effect. It's it's bringing light It reminds me as I was reading the rule, I was thinking about, you know, that a police officer. Why do we have spotlights and why did why did we talk about people putting bright lights on their houses? >> Mhm. >> You know, cuz burglars are much less likely to break into a house that is really well lit. Why? Cuz [clears throat] they can't hide. >> Mhm. [laughter] >> They're literally in the light. They can't hide from it. >> Yeah. And as I always say, demons are creatures, right? And they they act in the creaturely ways even though they're spirits. You know, and some sometimes we don't think of them like that, you know. But they do and and it is, you know, like humans, like dogs, you know, they're encouraged or emboldened or or dissuaded from doing bad things. You know, it's funny because there's a little dog. Uh what's what's Chase's dog's name? >> Oh. >> Nugget. >> Nugget, that's right. >> Chase and Dara. So, at the retreat center, we have people who live in community here and part of Apostoli VA work and just wanting to live a life like this. And they brought a little Nugget dog and he's an ankle biter. >> Yeah. >> And what's interesting about him is he's he's he when he's not happy, he's looking for an ankle. >> Yeah. >> Not his Not his mass Not his regular folks. >> Yeah. >> But if you're you know, a visitor, he doesn't know I own the place. I I don't own the place, but he doesn't know I'm on you know, uh that I I belong here, you know. So, so when does he start kind of he starts to circle around to do his cowardly bite. When does he do that? >> Well, I'll I'll give you a story that fits this perfectly. He got someone's ankle here on property. >> Okay. >> to say who it was cuz I don't want to embarrass them. >> Okay. >> I will say that he's never got my ankle. And why is that? Cuz even when I first met him and he was somewhat I wouldn't say he was aggressive. >> Yeah. No, he's [clears throat] not a bad dog. >> Barking at me or whatever. Just let me know like, "Hey, you're around my people and I don't know you and I don't like you." >> "And these are my people." >> And I didn't cower. I didn't you know, I didn't do any of that. I kind of confronted confronted him and in this case I had to dog, so I was trying to be friendly. But he's never bit me even when he's barked at me. This other person was is somewhat afraid of dogs. Is was nervous about the dog. And what happened? The dog bit her ankle. >> [clears throat] >> So, it kind of represents the two sides. I think that's kind of where you were going. Was it not? >> Uh well, actually no, but I like that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, so Yeah, well, that but that goes to the other rule we were about, you know, where um you know, the enemy is is like a a dog that when when you give him >> have been better for >> Yeah, we but this so so this this what I'm talking about is he he was nervous >> Mhm. >> and he started to circle around. Why didn't he bite me? Cuz I didn't I didn't drop my guard. >> Mhm. >> I didn't go I didn't look away. >> Yeah. >> And he's and he knew I was looking at him. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And cuz he knew I was looking at him what he doesn't know, the next thing I'm going to do, and I warned his parents. I said, "I won't hurt I won't hurt him, but I will dominate him." >> Yeah. >> Clearly, which is you flip him, you close their mouth, and and then they go, "Ooh, not somebody I should be messing with ever, you know." They remember once they get enough adrenaline attached. But it's similar with the enemy. It's like, you know, you when he's doing his thing, you got to You know, it's it's sort of like as a cop, did you ever have a situation where you you had a guy you were dealing with and I I remember you and I were somewhere and I looked at some guy dressed a certain way, certain stuff going on. I said, "So, see is this guy dangerous or not?" Cuz you and I were in a place far away from home, and you you're like, "No, not dangerous at all." You just knew instinct- instinctively. But you ever had a guy you you didn't necessarily know if you're going to bust him take him in um but you knew he was very dangerous. And that you knew you had to keep him you could not take your eyes off him for a second. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't remember specific instances. I There's a few things flashing through my memory, but yeah, there There just sometimes there's people that you can you can tell. I had a I had a uh This is the I think the only example I can think of that doesn't reveal anything, but we got a someone showed up to the precinct hilariously and they wanted to report for something and the desk officer was filling out the information and found out that they had a felony warrant. >> [laughter] >> Genius. >> And uh I had a I was training a rookie at the cuz when I when I left I was a field training officer, so I was training guys fresh out of the academy. And so we rolled up to the precinct and um I was letting him kind of the rookie kind of lead it so he he he learned and he and I as soon as I saw the guy there was something in his eyes where which may sound a little dramatic, but you just you can kind of tell with people, you know. >> Yeah, well you could. >> And I was like, "Hmm, okay, I need to be careful." And unfortunately my rookie goes he goes, "You have a felony warrant." And I was like, "No!" >> [laughter] >> Now we're going to fight. What are you doing? Thankfully we didn't have to we didn't have to fight cuz I had a taser. >> Yeah. >> And as soon as I pulled out the taser the guy stopped, but he was ready to he was ready to go [clears throat] cuz he just told you there was you know, the posture and something with and the guy it's like you I don't know. You can you can kind of tell. So I don't know if that answers the question, but >> You you and I were at a at a fast food place, remember that? In a major city one time. >> Yeah. >> And I think we were going to uh >> I think we're coming back from >> from completing NRA certification. >> Yeah. >> Uh and um which is a certification to be an instructor cuz Jordan had a at one time had a school where he was training folks how to do self defense. And um we were in a fast food place and something you could see I looked I saw the guys from their car. There were three guys. And you could just the posturing, how they positioned they were separate positioned themselves separate from one another like spread out. And then both of us knew instantly, okay, >> This is a bad >> it's time to find cover. >> Yeah. >> It's time to It's you know, without being obvious. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it was the other part. Okay, let's So, but And both of us didn't take their our eyes off of them until we got out of the place. Got where we were going to get out. But this is [clears throat] the principle that we're talking about in this rule. Um is you got to be awake, right? I mean, this is the whole the whole series is you got to be awake to what's going on around you. And And people who are victimized are victimized cuz they're not awake in in life. >> Yes. >> And in the spirit in the kind of normal life and in the spiritual life. >> Yeah. There's there's a phenomenal book called by Gavin de Becker called The Gift of Fear. >> Mhm. >> And The Gift of Fear is uh it opens with multiple stories from people who had that that little warning, whether you want to call it your subconscious or, you know, often we call it our guardian angel. >> Mhm. >> But there is a physiological, psychological system built into us to recognize >> given to us by God. Yeah. >> And he calls it The Gift of Fear. And unfortunately, these people were victimized, and he works with them and says, in in telling their story, where was it that you ignored >> that the gift >> that gift that said, "Hey, this is not a good idea." >> Yeah, like a woman who's getting into an elevator >> That's exactly what >> doesn't >> Did you read this book? >> I saw him interviewed one time. So, a woman's getting in the elevator, she sees a guy, I think he's a different race, doesn't want to appear racist, but doesn't feel good, and gets in just to not want to offend the guy, and then it ends up going the wrong way. And you just you can't ignore that. But this is what happens Desolation is like that. You know, when you're in desolation, the enemy is present and has some power in the situation. And is demonstrating that power in some way. Well, how do you get over it using this rule? It's really important. Like we're in that restaurant, one of the things that made me feel great that time when when those bad guys came in and there was something going down is my comfort was you were there. And all I had to do, I knew cuz I knew you, I I I I I, you know, we made eye contact which and with the serious look like are you ready? Like, yeah, I'm ready. And and then we split. >> Waited for our food. >> And we're waiting for our food. We did wait for our food cuz we wanted the food. >> It was a really long day and a really long drive. >> Right. But we split and and found reasonable cover and not without anybody knowing what we were doing. And then got ready. >> Yeah. >> In case something went down. So, being ready and then in this situation, what's parallel is I looked at him because I needed to know he was ready and that he saw what I saw. >> You He being me. >> You. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Now in the spiritual realm, the the only difference is the enemy knows when you see him. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's a little bit like Lord of the Rings. I'm assuming this to be true, but I I think it's true. The when the when Frodo or whichever numbskull puts the ring on, now they're invisible, but the the baddest of the bad guy can see him. >> Yeah. >> You know. So, I I I don't know if it works exactly like that. It's kind of in reverse. Um but that's the the effect on them, it it has to be true because the effect is to dissuade them. So, what does it mean? It means So, probably waiting for the punchline. Like, okay, could you just tell me how to do the rule? Here's it's it's simple. When I am in desolation, so I spot the bad guy. And I tell you, a good guy, the bad guy's in the room. The bad guy now knows we know. >> Yeah. >> And he starts to get nervous and back down. >> Yeah. >> So, it would have been as if in that in that restaurant when those three bad dudes came in, it would have been as if I looked at you, they saw us look at each other, they saw the way we behaved and knew they were in trouble if things got really bad, and then they backed down and just left because of that. That's that's the scenario this rule 14 paints. >> that if we're staying on on trend with analogies, I was working off duty at a um at a brewery, a really popular brewery, but it was in a pretty bad area. It was mostly college kids, doctors, lawyers, that kind of crowd, but every once in a while because of the area that it was in, you would get some some interesting folks in there. And I had a guy in there, I won't tell you the whole story, but basically towards the end of the evening cuz I'd already talked to him at at least once, and there was something off with him, and at one point he was headed out, and he bumps into a guy, and he they were both, you know, getting up to cause problems, and this guy, the main guy, primarily was causing the problems. And so when I tapped him on the shoulder, and he turned around, that's when he kind of slumped. It was like, and he was still posturing, but he you could it was a similar thing, right? You bring it to the light. >> Mhm. >> Hey, you can't do this. There's going to be repercussions for your actions. >> Yeah, I'm now in between you and this foolish behavior and the end conclusion what you're trying to do, bring to fruition. >> And what's interesting is he still postured, and he still tried to like say something to me, and I just kind of I did what I did at the time. >> Mhm. >> And eventually he he It like, forget this, and turned around and left. And, so >> why? Why did he do that? >> at the time I was very intense. >> [laughter] >> Well, I would just say for the folks listening Jordan, uh, at one time was not right with God or with the world, and he was a very dangerous man to himself and to those who would be, you know, be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So, he looked at you and knew you were dead serious about causing him major physical harm if he if he kept escalating. >> Yeah, what was interesting was that's one of the first time So, I I went back after he left, um, I went back to the bar where I was standing and I was talking to some folks. And, this one young lady, she goes, something switched in your eyes. >> Yeah, we've seen that we've seen it before. >> Something changed. Okay, well, I look the guy's gone, so I don't really know. >> Well, yeah, you have dark, dark brown eyes. >> Yeah. >> And, when you add a anger to you and intensity, you you have a pretty spooky look. >> Well, uh, anyway >> That's gone now. I mean, I'm seen I don't recall seeing it for years now. >> Yeah, well, it's it's interesting. I mean, maybe this is a conversation for another time, but the meekness aspect, which I've read a lot about, and uh, I like the I like the Jordan Peterson take on it. I don't agree with everything he says, but I like his take where, uh, the meek are those who have a sword and know how to use it, but keep keep it sheathed. >> Yeah, unless at the absolute Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, you have that ability. So, but that also kind of bleeds into what we're talking about here, which is yeah, you should you should have the ability to fight back and the desire to fight back, or or at the very least no fear of fighting back. >> Yeah. >> And, to even tie it into the gift of fear thing. I mean, the enemy I know that sometimes when I'm in desolation, it is I I can make excuses without thinking about it. You know, it's like I don't think that I'm initially in desolation. I'm just tired or oh, I'm just hungry or oh, I'm just >> Feeling a little crummy, yeah. >> Yeah, name these things. And so, it's it's almost like you have to sit there and think, "No, you know, this is probably is desolation or at the very least it doesn't hurt to treat it like it's desolation." >> It doesn't ever hurt. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, let's let's talk about levels of response and how So, what level let's call this level one is uh you fight, which is you know, what the rules are there for by on your own. Level two, we can use the symbol of two as two people. Level two is I tell someone. Now, my level two is a text. Uh it cuz it's the simplest way. >> going to say, it could be I was going to suggest that very thing. >> Yeah, to text usually to my wife, who has authority over me as I do over her. And it and I can text one word, desolation. What have I just done? Turned on the floodlights. Cuz the enemy knows she's a holy woman and she will pray for me and she and she immediately starts to pray. >> And you're aware that they're attacking you just as the rule says, now they know that their plan is not going to be as effective because you're not some helpless victim. >> Yeah, you're not oblivious. So, that I'll call that level two. Level three um is when you it's harder and you you get a person or persons to specifically pray against specific issues. So, um or you know, I another I I should have Let me back up and give them So, let me give a level one is you're aware you fight. I would say a level one A cuz it's happened to me Friday or something. One of our employees was talking to me and noticed I was a little off and asked me, you know, are you okay? And which is great. It's a great thing that we all know these things and we're live these things at The Avila Foundation, but >> comfortable asking the question. >> Right. Yeah, I know this is somebody underneath me in the hierarchy, so to speak, even was comfortable asking. And I said, I you know, I'm okay. You know, and they went, "Ah, yeah. So, you know, you just came back from Trinidad. You just, you know, you're you have your normal stuff as the founder. You should go play the cleansing prayer." So, one is I'm awake and aware and that can diminish the power. Two is I'm awake and aware, it's like one A. I need to pray a specific prayer, cleansing prayer from the St. Michael's app. I did that, by the way, and it lifted. Which was good, but I had bad fog the whole day. Level two is I tell someone there's another person two, one person, two persons. You know, a level three would be and one person, two persons, just I'm in desolation. Simple to Level three would be I'm in desolation and I it's not lifting and I'm fighting and I've had somebody, you know, I've told someone it's still not there. So, as an example, what happened there is in being involved in some kind of deliverance work and getting what we call slimed, and which means a lot of kickback. And so, then we call a priest and they they um pray over us, which and I'm not directly into the deliverance ministry, but I have been in the past and that's when it happened. Or if I, you know, there was one time at NAPA Institute as an example where I was just attending the Savannah and there was a guy who was struggling with a family member who was there and said, "You know, can you pray for me?" And I'm like, "Yeah, let's go. Tell me what you're feeling." He didn't expect me to do this, but I said, but I took him I went instantly into renunciations, you know, so that's like engaging in battle for them, but you can get kickbacks sometimes. No big deal, it's just you have to deal with it. So then you have a priest, we have a priest that will pray for us, you know. >> And I I would change the language only slightly and maybe this is a little pedantic, but from levels to steps. >> Uh-huh. >> Cuz I almost think that you should or people should think about this as a step-by-step process. >> Uh-huh. >> Because if you number one, you have to recognize you have to fight back. >> Yeah. >> Number two, you have to realize, so step two would be, "Okay, hold on. Number one didn't really work, so I have to escalate." >> Yeah. >> the levels make sense, but I think it's the levels almost seem as if it's a one-off thing where if if I'm in the situation I fits, like, "No, just apply it all." >> Right. >> You know, cuz even if I'm I've I've had it where I recognize it and then you know, I'd still reach out and send money just to really cover my bases cuz why not just throw everything at the enemy that you can? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Prayers and telling folks and >> Well, and in that case, I if it's a heavy desolation, we just step beyond. I have a whole team, you're you're you you have access to this, too. Have a whole team of people who pray for us all the time. And all we have to say is desolation. That means not just one holy person, it's 17, you know. And then they're praying and that's just super powerful. So, but the key is is just, you know, I think you identified a secret that's really important and that is I'm feeling kind of crummy. Are you in desolation? My natural, by the way, is to say, "No, I'm fine." Which is really not very smart. Because Right. [laughter] So, even if you're not even if you're fine. I mean, yeah, you may be fine, but why not have people praying for you as if you are? Because if it's just physiological, it's still there's still a benefit if if because you're resisting it. And if it's beyond physiological and it's spiritual then it will diminish and then, you know, that's that's great beauty. So, that's rule 13, the second most important rule. And if we could just summarize it in in two words, you know, I I've been thinking lately about, you know, if I could summarize the spiritual life, like I have the paradigm of ascent, which summarizes what it means to be an authentic disciple, but summarizing this phrase of ideas, um is uh is uh get up on you know, what is you know, physical discipline and getting up on time to pray. Um uh show up, which is always go to prayer no matter how you feel. Look up. Uh which is when you're in the midst of struggle, look up to where and see what the Lord's doing. And I would and I I would add the fourth one now just from this conversation, reach out. Reach out and ask someone to pray for you. >> Yeah, cuz there's no downside to asking for prayers, you know. And and it Yeah, I think and maybe one final word on that is the enemy wants you to feel like you're alone and wants you to be ashamed. >> Yeah. >> You know, why are you asking for prayers? Why are you, you know, the these people have better things to do than to pray for you. It's like, shut up. >> Mhm. >> Tell to the enemy. >> Yeah, in Jesus' name. >> No, I'm going to ask for prayers. And yeah, so anyway. Uh Romans 16:20, The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. Amen. >> Amen.