EUROPE'S TICKING BOMB - Scott Ritter & Patrik Baab on THE WORLD THIS WEEK

[music] There. Welcome to the world this week, episode 33. Our first program in the new time slot of 9:00 a.m. US Eastern time this week from Basin Hyde, Switzerland, 45 minutes outside Zurich. Today's program, Europe's ticking time bomb. Germany blames Russia for airport drone attempt. Zalinski threatens Russian commercial air traffic. And when will the Iran war end? Germany is blaming Russia for a drone with explosive found in Leipzig airport. CNN reports Germany has accused Russia of being responsible for the drone attack targeting Leipik airport last month and announced a slew of new measures against Moscow. Quote, "We are not at war, but we are a daily target of hybrid attacks." Germany's interior minister Alexander Dorrint told reporters Tuesday as he raised the country's threat level from general to high, not at war with Germany. Maybe he should have added yet. [snorts] Germany's foreign minister Johan Vadapul also ordered the closure of Russian consulate in Ban the Russia house a cultural center in Berlin and Germany is also tightening controls about of Russians entering the country Vander of course the president of the EU's executive arms said European foreign ministers would announce a clear response to Russia including additional sanctions later this week. This comes as German and British leaders keep saying there will be war with Russia by 2030. The US CNN goes on previously assessed that an explosive laden drone discovered at the airport in the east of Germany belonged to a Russian intelligence service. A US defense official in Europe told CNN. Now it's me. Of course, US have given no proof about this. The next day, president of Ukraine threatened commercial air traffic in Russia. He urged airlines to avoid Russian airspace, warning that expanding Ukrainian drone operations and making the skies increasingly unsafe over Russia. Meanwhile, a shootout between Ukrainian SBU intelligence servants and members of the country's military intelligence agency broke out in the streets of Kiev. What does that mean? And US Vice President J. D. Vance said during the week that he doesn't know if the Iran war would end by the time of the US congressional elections in November, critical to Trump's rule. And if we have time, we're going to talk about whether the US has completed its takeover in Venezuela after a huge chevron deal is announced there. To discuss these issues, we welcome independent investigative German journalist Patrick Bob and Scott Ritter, uh, a regular on our program. Of course, he's a former UN weapons inspector, US Marine counter inelligence officer, pundit, and guest on our show. So, uh, Patrick, let me start with you. The drone attack in in Lipac airport was was this drone was with explosives was found supposedly near a Ukrainian cargo plane. What do you think's going on here? >> So, I think the German government is standing on thin ice. I never saw a single proof that this drone is linked to Russia. It's just an imagination or propaganda of our government. Well, the thing happened like that. A bus driver saw this drone He stopped his bus, went out, and kicked the drone away. This could not be a Russian drone. Possibly it was a kit for children. >> Oh, what? >> Something else. A kit for children. >> Children. >> Yeah, a tool kit for children. I don't know. So they're saying no link to Russia and it looks like a false flag operation. asked the question, who is interested in that? And this could mo possibly lead to Ukrainian circles in Germany who are interested into drawing Germany deeper and deeper into the Ukraine war and to forced Germany to deliver long range cruise missiles. to Ukraine. I think this is the a possible background. And on the other hand, the whole show and it was a show after this so-called drone attack was orchestrated on the NATO level. NATO officials, German officials, EU officials spoke the same sentences and posted the same sentences on social media. So it is orchestrated on a higher level and I think the whole interest in this thing is to drew Germany deeper and deeper into the Ukraine war and to escalate the Ukraine war to a fullcale Europe to fullcale war in Europe step by step. >> Now, you live in Berlin. The public is not all that keen on war with Russia. Absolutely not. So, an attack, an attack like this, putting a drone there in the upper war, is that designed to get the German people to be more supportive of a war against Russia, the one they keep promising? >> So, the German people are split up. The majority of German people does not want a war. So the people [clears throat] must be convinced that our government who is l directly linked to the United States and NATO is doing the right thing uh confronting Russia more and more and I think the light case is a part of a larger propaganda operation. And uh the goal of this propaganda operation is to make people think and majority of German people think that Russia is our enemy. >> Yeah. Scott, if Russia really wanted to attack Germany, shoot the dog, as you once famously said, would they leave a drone on the ground in an airport with explosives? What would that prove? And would that that's not how they operate, is it? >> It's not how a professional intelligence service operates. Um, the last thing you want to do is leave identifiable signatures. Um, if you want to use a drone, then you would use um a drone from Ukraine. Um, you would use a domestic a European Union domestically acquired drone to create the impression of perhaps, you know, homegrown terrorists. Uh the other question is the explosives. Um what are the explosives? What is the source? I mean Germany has them. Have they put out a forensic analysis of the explosive package? Uh which should say where the explosives came from? Were they sourced? Are these explosives that you know the Russian military uses? Are these explosives that are commercially available in Europe? Things of that nature. Because the drone drones just don't appear out of nowhere and fly themselves. Uh the drone has to be assembled. Uh the explosives package has to be very carefully attached. Uh the fusing mechanism attached. Uh and then launched. Um what frequency was it operating on? Um, I mean there's just so many forensic questions that if you're going to say this is a Russian drone, then what you need to say is this is a Russian drone because the serial number on this drone u is in the same family line of the uh you know ocopter drones used by the 50th vary independent drone unit that's been attacking Kerosone for the last 16 months and it comes from the same stream or something. But they don't want >> we haven't heard anything like that. Well, the reason why is that what it probably sounds like is the Ukrainians have when when I was just in the U the Donetskin Lugansk I visited a number of Russian drone units and one thing they all had in common is that they have this giant graveyard of drones. Um early on in the war between Russia and Ukraine they they simply swapped out drones um before they came into the kamicazi. They'd use them for reconnaissance and Ukrainian electronic warfare would down a Russian drone. The Ukrainians would take it, repurpose it, send it back. The Russians would down it. And as a result, and even today, drones come in and fail to operate. And there's a whole graveyard of drones. So the Ukrainians are sitting on hundreds, maybe thousands of Russian drones that have fallen from the sky and a state of disrepair. The Russians do the same thing. Most of them are repaired and brought back into service and used uh back in again because there's similarities and features. But the uh the point is I know the Russians have a whole bunch of Ukrainian drones that they repair, they use, they they they they operate them to see what their operating characteristics are. Um you know, just to better understand drone wear. It's the same thing with the Ukrainians. And so where's the serial number? They don't want to give that away because if it is a Russian drone, um [laughter] Russia would never use that drone. and you probably can trace it to a Ukrainian unit. And then you also have to talk about the explosives package, how it's put together, what the fusion mechanism is. Give me the characteristics of the weapon before you say it's a Russian drone. I'm leaning towards, and again, we have to say we just don't know. But I'm leaning towards this being a coordinated false flag operated by Ukraine that was designed to be detected and then you go into a rapid uh information warfare response on the part of Europe prepackaged presscripted um you know declarations uh designed to do and timed because the timing is interesting. The attack on Leipig airport predates Zalinsk's declaration of war against Russian civil aviation >> the day before the announcement was made. >> Correct. So there's just a lot going on here that uh strongly suggests that this is a uh coordinated false flag effort being done by uh the European Union with Ukraine coordinating with NATO to create uh things. The other thing you have to understand is this also creates political cover for the decision um regarding storm shadow and German decisions supporting continued drone operations into Russia. It creates a uh a kaz belly so to speak uh for the Europeans to say this is why we're supporting Ukraine. >> So they knew about it the NATO. This wasn't wasn't this wasn't Nordstream where some Ukrainians on a small boat with nobody's knowledge went out there. >> It it doesn't appear to be I mean, Peter could probably, you know, talk about that, but Patrick, I'm sorry. >> Oh, I'm fine. [laughter] >> You can call me Joe, but >> No, we'll call you Jeffrey. Exactly. >> Well, [laughter] I answer to that name on occasion, apparently. But no, but the the timing of it, how, you know, how quick was the German European Union NATO response upon discovery? Were there were there a day or two of reflection or was it an immediate knee-jerk reaction? It took three or four days and that means it was enough time to coordinate the the so-called response. But let me get back to the important point. There is not a single proof that this is a Russian drone or that Russian secret services initiated this attack. The government has nothing on her hand. It is a case of propaganda, nothing else. And they searched a reason to start a another step in information warfare against Russia. They start they searched a reason to close um the house of Russian culture in Berlin to cut all links between German and Russian people because it's easier to make people hate another nation if they don't have any contact. >> That's the background. >> That's definitely a preparation for war when you >> Yes. dehumanize. >> Is there a legal justification? I mean, my understanding is that the Russia house is actually um an arrangement that Germany just can't walk away from. That it's part of the postwar, postc cold war unification things that Germany simply doesn't have the legal authority to close the Russia house. Am I right on this? >> Yes, that's completely right. And we have to keep in mind that Russia agreed to German reunification. Without the agreement of Moscow, it would have been impossible to reunify the whole country. And >> I'm sorry, we know why they agreed because they were promised that NATO would not expand, but that's exactly beside the point. So part of the so-called 2 + 4 treaty is that NATO does not expand on the eastern part of Germany. Only German troops should have been dislocated over there. But today NATO advanced to the Russian frontier and this is against the treaty on German reunification clearly. Clearly, so our government is denying that. It's very clear. But this is the reality and they want to make people forget what are the circumstances and the reasons and the agreements of German reunification. They are well you have to see in the time of independence Ukraine had 52 million inhabitants. Today we see an amount of inhabitants of 25 million. That means the whole country is bleeding out in this war of attrition and in this proxy war on the ground of Ukraine between the United States and Russia. And so if this country Ukraine is bleeding out completely, so our American friends will say, "And now the Germans to the front." >> How sophisticated are the German people? Would they buy this story about the drone or are they also asking the questions that we are? >> So in Germany always a majority is following the propaganda line of the government and most intellectuals are following the propaganda line of the government because the intellectuals are paid for following the government. And we see that in the beginning of the first world war and in the beginning of the second world war. Most people in Germany are following the propaganda narratives up from 555 we will fire back. This was 39 when we attacked Poland. Of course, in the propaganda war, it was counterattack. In the first world war, we have to respond. We have to reattack the French and the Russian aggression. It's always the same story. In the Vietnam War, we have um the let me say this propaganda case, the false flag of >> go for tonkin. the the case of Tonkin, it's always a counterattack. We only defend ourselves and it's always the same story. >> Yeah. >> And hopefully we can convince German people that our government is part of an aggressive organization called NATO. Well, Scott, this is the hardest thing for American people to accept that they are part of an aggressive alliance like NATO and they're the head of the alliance. And what would it take for American people to understand this? >> First thing is for American people to be cognizant of the world outside of uh the boundaries of the United States. I continue to say that the American people are the most ignorant people um about the world they live in. >> I want to debate this. I think that German people are the most brainwashed people in the world. But but at least Germany can point the United States out on a map. There's many Americans who couldn't point Germany out on a map. Um let alone uh point Keningrad or you know tell me where you know the Salki corridor is or what the Baltic states are or any of the complexion where Leipzig is. What is the history of Leipzig? Why is Leipzig important? Berlin. They couldn't tell me about the United Nations charter and the fact that Germany continues legally to be classified as a defeated state and therefore has no right for militarization or any of the activities they're currently undertaking and that Russia at any time it wants without permission of the security council can annihilate Germany off the face of the earth. Maybe the German people need to wake up for that and the American people need to wake up to the consequences of that. Um, I'd like the American people to talk about article five of the United Nations Charter. Although they don't can't articulate some of them think it means automatic collective defense, but it doesn't. There's a certain deliberation involved that doesn't require instant military um, you know, you know, we don't dispatch the troops. This isn't the Cold War when we had 300,000 troops in Germany ready to go to war at a drop of a hat. Today we have a brigade, a striker brigade uh that's going to get pulled out uh from Germany at Graphen at Hoenfills. We have a OP four battalion minus mean it's not even a full battalion. It's trained to be the opposing forces. And we have an airborne uh battalion in uh in in Germany. That's it. That's all we have. We went from 300,000 to 39,000. And of that 39,000, fewer than half of them are combat troops. We have zero combat capacity in Europe today. This is what the American people need to understand that Europe's trying to draw us into a conflict with the most combat hardened army in the world. And we have zero combat capacity in Europe. None. We couldn't fight the Russians today if we wanted to fight the Russians today. And we don't want to fight the Russians today. And that's the other thing the Europeans need to understand. We don't want your war. And I'm not talking about the American people are too stupid to breathe. I'm talking about our government doesn't want your war. >> This government, the Biden government, I think, wanted a war. >> Well, Biden's not the government anymore. And we have a president named Donald Trump who's going to be president for at least two more years unless he totally screws the pooch and the 25th amendment is invoked. But for the moment, the president's under tremendous criticism right now because he's saying we need to have good relations with Russia. >> Yeah. And so at the time when the United States and Russia are actually talking about the potential of resuming a negotiation process, Germany and NATO are trying to kick up a war with Russia. Do you think Trump is going to say, "Oh no, it's a better idea to go with the Germans right now, who he hates, by the way. He despises it." >> And so he's going to drop everything and come to the assistance of the Germans whom he hates. >> No. So the Germans need to grow up. You're starting a fight that we're not going to come to your aid and you're going to lose. And there's a reason why there was a Russia house in Berlin. And the reason isn't the unification. The reason is the occupation. The Germans lost the war against the Russians. The Russians occupied Berlin. And um history may repeat itself if the Germans continue to go down this path. I'm not being I'm not threatening. I'm just saying come on Germany, wake up. You don't do well in wars against Russia. So German elites don't learn from history. It's very very clear they are racistic and resop. >> I discussed that point with General Kuyat who was a highranked officer on the NATO level and the chief of the Buddhism for years and we were laughing. the coalition of the willing, Great Britain, France, and Germany. We could bring on wheels, let me say, an expedition core of 50 or 60,000 guys, soldiers to be sent to Ukraine. The Russians, the Russian army has 800,000 soldiers in Ukraine. And this is not the total amount, 1.5 million soldiers under weapons. And General Kuya told me such an expedition core will be wiped out in one week. That's the reality beside the prophecy. >> He's a retired general, I imagine. Yes, of course. >> They don't speak that way that way when they're still >> Well, it's very clear. I have a lot of friends in the United States, especially in the southern states. Whatever comes from Washington, they find this is [laughter] It's southern great justice. And those people don't want war. All these people are hardworking people, but they know nothing from Germany as the Germans know nothing from the United States. They don't even know where is San Francisco. They couldn't find the town. So uh the best way to avoid wars is to keep people in touch to each other. Yeah. Yeah. It's the best what you are doing right now in with your visit visits in Russia to shake your hands to listen to show respect and to learn to understand what's the history of people experience of people and so our government want to avoid this. They want to interrupt the relations between both sides to drive people's faster and faster into the next war. It >> It's curious. You mentioned a NATO core. I know that's what they envision, but let's just let's let's get real for a moment. Germany couldn't get a brigade mobilized today if it wanted to. >> Absolutely. >> Couldn't get a brigade out of the barracks. All right. A core is like two or more divisions. Germany cannot get a brigade out of the barracks. The British can't get a brigade across the channel. And the French can't get a brigade off the port. Um, so even if they got their core together, >> they would literally lose the war getting to Yes. the front. Logistically, it's unsustainable. >> They would have to get them to Romania and then assemble the force in Romania and then as they project their power forward, they're going to run out of logistics before they even get into Ukraine. The moment they cross into Ukraine, their logistics are be interdicted. They will run out of fuel before they get halfway to the front. And then the Russians will bring the drones in. An American heavy brigade went up against a handful of Ukrainian drone operators who are pretty good, but they're not as good as the Russians. They stopped the brigade in its tracks. The brigade had to hit reset three times and before they admitted, "We can't go against them." Nobody in Europe today is ready to fight the modern drone-based war. The Russians would have every single tank, every single vehicle, every single soldier in that column killed before they got within 20 kilometers of the front. This is a NATO pipe dream. It will never happen. It can never happen. And what shocks me is there was a day when military officers had the courage to tell their political leaders, "We can't do that. You're asking me to do something that is impossible. We cannot accomplish this mission." Um and and and yet here we have NATO living this fantasy world. Every single NATO officer knows that every word I just said is true. Yeah. >> There's not a single NATO officer will dispute what I said. And yet they continue to go forward with this fantasy of somehow NATO projecting power in a manner that threatens Russia. It's a joke. I mean, thank God Vladimir Putin is a very pragmatic man who is not looking for war. He's very careful. He's very, in my point of view, he's very defensive. He always waited long and evaluated the situation and then he reacted. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He's not aggressive. When I met people in Donbos at Arab visit, many people told me should have come after the Maidan coup in 2014. >> But he said so himself. >> He let us down. >> Yeah. >> Now he's doing his job. That's the that's the position the perspective the majority of the Donbos people because they have a war experience since 2014 for those people the war began not in February 2022 began after the Maidan coup >> April May June July 24 but you know what the German people don't >> remember this you know why Putin didn't destroy the Ukrainian army at the Bolza in in 2014 because Angala Merkel the chancellor of Germany >> Exactly. Yes. >> made a phone call and pleaded to him to show mercy. >> Yes. >> And Vladimir Putin listened to her and he said, "Okay, I will go to the speech." France Holland, the French leader made a phone call and they began a diplomacy where Vladimir Putin instead of destroying a Ukrainian army that deserved to be destroyed. If people understand what the Ukrainians did to the people of the Donbass in May, June, July, August, September of 2014, the raping, the pillaging, the murdering, they treated the civilians as terrorists. They called it an anti-terrorist operation. They were bombing women, bombing children, slaughtering them in the streets. And they all deserved to die. And they were surrounded by men from the Donbas who were ready to kill them because these are the men who killed their families. And Vladimir Putin said, "Stop. We're going for peace. And this is what nobody in the United States and Europe realizes. Vladimir Putin is a man who seeks peace first. War is the absolute last option. So the fact that we're talking about the potential of conflict with Russia means, you know, how far has Europe gone promoting this war. And the answer is it's been a non-stop promotion since 2014. >> Absolutely. Non-stop. >> Absolutely. >> The threat against the Russian airspace, is it real? Can we can we expect what would happen if a commercial airliner was shot down by a Ukrainian drone somewhere over Russia? >> What happens? >> It will. >> No, the Ukraines can't shoot down a commercial airline with air defense. A drone could hit it. >> Yeah. >> But drones don't operate at that altitude. >> So, it would have to be an airplane coming in for landing, right? >> But by that, the Russian radar would have detected it and Russia would have cleared the airspace, diverted the airplanes. I know because I've been on a commercial airline flying into Russia that had to divert because of a drone attack and my airplane was delayed taking off. I missed my connection uh taking off because of a drone attack. The Russians have this under control. What the Ukrainians are threatening to do is flood the zone >> with drones. Well, how much more can they flood it? They in three days they put 1,400 drones into Moscow airspace and they were all shot down except four which penetrated in and it went poop here, there, and everywhere. Uh, Zalinski is acting as if he has drones to spare. >> Right. >> All right. His Featherov, his former minister of defense, uh, bought all these drones that they're using in this drone warfare uh, today uh, by stealing 27 billion that was meant for the second half. Ukraine's defense ministry has no money right now. They're bankrupt. They're begging Europe to cough up 30 billion euro because they're at zero because Fedrov stole their budget to buy drones that they flooded it in. Those drones are gone. The industrial base for building the drones is gone. Ukraine has zero drone capacity sustainable. So what Zalinsky is saying is, I'm threatening you with weapons that have yet to be provided to me by Europe. Please give me the weapons so I can close Russian airspace. And what the Russians have said, that's an act of terrorism. And if you do this, you'll be treated as terrorists. You remember Putin's preser. >> He said, why do you keep Zalinsky alive? because we need someone to negotiate with and when the time comes to negotiate we need we need to know something. But he said if you act on this action against our airspace that's a terrorist act and you will be treated as terrorists. So if they do this you want to know what the response is? Zalinski is dead. Budano's dead. Zulus is dead. They're all dead. They will all die. The Russians can kill them anytime they want to. They keep them alive for the potential of a negotiated surrender of Ukraine. But if Ukraine wants to play stupid games, they'll win the stupidest prize of all. >> How would Europe, uh, NATO and United States react if all those men were killed after an attack on a Russian plane? >> Well, I think they would replace the government in Kief. >> The new >> because Silinski is just a puppet. >> Yeah. >> A showman directed by Washington and London. Nothing else. And there is another NATO illusion or illusion of the west and an illusion of the KF government, the KF regime. They want to provoke unrest under the Russian population. But this will not work. The Russian population will rally around the Russian flag in times of a crisis. The majority of the Russian population, the citizens are strongly and supporting Putin. They are strongly supporting Putin. It's only a majority of younger academics who fear to receive a letter that they have to come to the front line. Half a million of those people uh left Russia in fall 2022 were in the first mobilization wave. But now they don't mobilize. [snorts] It's just a subscription system and the military services could pay to Russia. So the Russian army has more people who want to come to the army than they can use. >> Yeah. >> This is a completely difference to the Ukrainian army. Yeah, you have more casualties that they can get new people to recruit and they must press more and more people [clears throat] into the army and to the front line. This is a a problem Russian don't Russia don't have. No, >> they have enough soldiers because well in the year 1922 the Donbas region that was a very rich region, gas, steel factories and all that where became part of the Soviet Republic of Ukraine to industrialize the agricultural farming regions in of western Ukraine. And those people living in the Donbas area had mostly relations and relatives in Russia and this lasts until today. And the mood in Russia in the time before the beginning of the so-called special military operation was why don't we help our friends in the Donbas region? They are under pressure. What's the government doing? Are they sleeping right now? That's the mood of the people. And most people in the west cannot understand because they know nothing about Ukraine and Russia. They know nothing about Russia. Yeah. >> Yes. That's the problem. >> You know, you you talk about the liberal elite that is concerned. You know, 500,000 left. You know, most of them already come back. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Because they they got to the west and they realized the West isn't everything it was supposed to be and they miss mother Russia. And I mean I I know people that came to the United States, went out to California uh to go to college and uh they saw their Ukrainian counterparts getting free money, free housing, free everything, total subsidized living and still being critical of America. All these spoiled Ukrainian refugees living off the American dime. And the Russians are sitting there going, "Why are you getting all this free stuff?" >> Yes. >> And then so you know, they come home. But these these this liberal elite is actually you know a minor Europe it feeds off of you know the the European criticism of Russia resonates into Russia and then echoes back from the liberal elite. Yes. >> And so they take that as a reinforcing signal. >> But the liberal elite is totally neutered. They have no there's no power at all. the but what they they're seeing is what they're saying is sort of voices of opposition but they're taking the voice they're conflating the anti-Putin liberal elite with the people saying Putin should do more and they're combining them saying this is a collective opposition but those people saying Putin should do more are not anti-Putin they are pro Putin they are lining up with Putin and that the West is getting this 100% wrong you're 100% correct to say that the goal of the west is to bring about a Moscow Maidon to generate social unrest, economic collapse, uh military males so that there's a Maidon in Moscow to remove and you hear people say that's our goal, that's our objective. This is what we want. This will never happen. >> It's a complete delusion. >> Yeah, >> it will not happen. Uh some weeks ago, I spoke to a young Russian musician from St. Petersburg. He's a friend of mine and he left his country in late 22 and went to Belgrade. Now he returned to Russia and he's living in St. Petersburg again because he said I realized I didn't find myself in a kind of paradise. [clears throat] >> Belgrade was as well. So I went back to do my job. We'll be better paid in Russia. So that's the point. What you said, they returned to Russia. The majority returned to Russia later on because they learned Turkey, Kazakhstan, >> Georgia, >> Serbia, Georgia are no paradises. >> No. And there's a lot of anti-Russian sentiment. Yes. All the other thing was interesting is um St. Petersburg has always been this bastion of uh of sort of snobbery and western. We're different from the rest of Russia. We're the we're the cultured people, not those Moscow, Nikoi. And and this um when I was there in June, the day I arrived, 98 drones were coming into St. Petersburg through the Baltic corridor and the drones hit the day I left. Um what was curious is that in the month of June and July uh the volunteer contract numbers in St. Petersburg shot into over 10,000 10,000 elite St. Petersburg men who previously had avoid had said we're not going to we're not going to join the military when the West attacked St. Petersburg. They volunteered to go serve in the front. And the mood is increasingly not just we're going to go serve. >> We're serving until victory. >> They're not saying we're going to go throw in a six-month tour or here. They're serving until victory. They are committed to the complete defeat of the collective west. Not just Ukraine, but this whole western machine that's empowering Ukraine. >> Yes, that's the mood of the people. They started in 22 a special military operation to show by naming this a special military operation to the west that they have limited goals only on the ground of Ukraine. Now Moscow is discussing about a second great patri patriotic war. It's a completely different approach. The Russians realized that they have to fight against the collective west right now. So all signs are showing escalation. Yeah, like we said, a time bomb in Europe. If you're watching the world this week, I'm Joe Lauria and my guests are Scott Ritter and Patrick Bob. Scott, there was, by the way, I reminded what you said about Americans not knowing uh their geography. what Mark Twain apparently said that's going America goes to war so Americans could learn geography that's when everyone reads in the newspaper about Afghanistan for example um Scott there was this very strange event in a neighborhood in Kiev this week where members of the SBU which is their main intelligence service had a shootout with members of the military intelligence is this just a one-off strange event what do you know about or is it say speak something deeper about what's happening in in Kiev right Well, I mean, I think it's it's it's I mean, [snorts] it's a unique event. I don't think we've had a shootout of this nature uh in in downtown Kiev. Um what apparently is happening is that um the military intelligence, the HUR, um they run a number of units, um Russian volunteer units, you know, Russian anarchist units, things of that nature. And so there's a unit within the HUR that's responsible for maintaining these various units and the people inside these units. One of these units is a Russian volunteer unit that you know very anti-Russian uh participated in the invasion of Kursk and and such. the deputy leader was detained by the SBU and they were bringing him in for for questioning and his people made a phone call to the HUR said, "Hey, your boy is being arrested by the SBU." And so his handlers show up and they object to the the detainment and uh somebody went for a pistol and he got shot in the legs. Exchange of fire. I think two guys are dead, several are wounded. But what's curious here is that this deputy was then released. but released with the sub story, the sub thing that the reason why the SBU went after him is that he was working for the FSB and that he confessed under interrogation that he was working for the FSB Russians >> for the Russians and that the Russians had hired him to assassinate other anti-Russian Russians who were coming to Ukraine. So the SBU made an intervention to stop the assassination, but they released him because he totally cooperated with the SBU. Now this is where their story falls apart because if he had been working with the FSB, he'd be dead right now. They would have taken him, interrogated him, and executed him. but instead he's released which means that this is a larger propaganda war against the HUR that this is an internal power struggle that the S the SPU is trying to undermine the authority of the HUR and you and you see there's ongoing battles for instance um in the drone wars we um we see Zalinsky promoting um people from the SBU uh from the alpha unit that that that did, you know, that famously did some drone stuff. But on the other hand, you have the HUR doing deep strikes into Russia, human uh penetration, and they're both vying because there's a political vacuum right now in Ukraine. And they're they're both sides are vying to get up the ladder in the political vacuum for the money. Everything in Ukraine is about the money. It's all about the money. It's all about the money. And so these two guys are fighting. So, the SBU concocts this raid to set up this guy. Uh, I don't think they wanted a firefight, but they wanted to create the notion that one of the uh HUR's guys was working for the FSB and was trying to assassinate and all this stuff to muddy the waters for the HUR so that SBU would be better positioned internally. This is classic Ukrainian corrupt politics. Apparently this guy who was arrested is an extreme these Financial Times call him an extreme writers or something. He probably is a neo-Nazi himself as he was supposed to be working for the FSB. >> Well, they have him on tape confessing, but then he came out and recanted the confession saying it came under torture. >> Um, so who knows >> who tortured him? >> He's saying the SBU tortured him. >> It's a strange story. Uh, you don't think it's over yet? You told me previously, do you think? No, it's because we're dealing with a p a a power struggle right now between the SBU and the HUR for influence within Zalinsky. Uh who's going to be the special forces of uh of note who's going to be able to get their guy uh put up right now? I think it's uh a former SPU guy is the acting minister of defense or now he is the minister of defense uh the the alpha commander who led the uh the uh spiderweb drone attack against Russia in uh in in 2024. So um but the hur you know Budanov is their boy remember Budanov comes from that group. >> He's in London now right? >> No Budanov is the presidential adviser >> talking you've got a a secretary of defense and presidential adviser who come from different factions SBU HUR and there's there's just a power struggle going on. So I don't I don't think that it's over at all. Mhm. But is uh is Yes. I just also to ask you whether Zalinski's position is secure. Now >> the security of Zilinski's position depends on the continuation of the war. He's well just a figure of the West. He's a showman of the West. Nothing else. And if he will not function anymore, he will be dead. not killed by the West, by his own guys. >> And he's he's playing a role and he lives in the illusion that he can leave the president's palace and the capital of Kiev in the very last moment. But this is an illusion. He will be killed from my point of view. >> He's got the plane waiting fueled up to take him to Florida. But the plane won't come. [laughter] >> It'll be hit by a Russ. Are we a Russian drone this time? Not a fake one in Le. >> Well, what what uh Scott said, keep in mind that uh Ukraine is one of the most corrupt >> Yeah. >> uh countries in the world. And I learned in western Ukraine in 20 2021, the war didn't start yet, that different fraction, different factions of police, military and secret services are fighting each other. Um and um the case was uh the control of the smuggling, the cigarette smuggling, the the the weapons smuggling and >> the women >> and the women smuggling all these shady businesses and they all want to make money and so sometimes they have a fight on the streets. It's not completely unusual in this country. H. Wow. So, uh, let's move on if we can in the last few minutes we have to talk about this very strange war in Iran. It's 6 months on now. It's an on-again, off-again war. It's a war that clearly Trump cannot admit that he lost. He certainly can admit that before this election in November. And it's interesting that JD Vance, the US vice president, was asked about whether the war would end by the time of the election in early November. And he said he didn't know. So, it looks like Trump doesn't want to have it going on, won the election because it's deeply unpopular in the US, but he can't end it because that would mean he lost and he doesn't know how to get the hell out of this. Patrick, uh, Patrick, I'm going to ask Scott. No, you're Peter and his Jeff. So, [laughter] uh, >> I screwed that one up. >> Scott. >> Scott, what what is the meaning? What how does this war end? Does it end? It has to end because look, the United States has literally run out of options. I mean, it's funny. I talk to people and they say, "Oh, the United, you know," and I say it, "The United States lost this war." They say, "That means that the United States has no power." No, I I I I beg to differ. Um, if you get the United States mobilized, get the public mobilized, and you get our defense industry mobilized, and we actually build the military that we're capable of building, um, and we have the political support, uh, we could defeat Iran in a stand-up fight. It would take a year and a half, two years to build up for that. But the notion that we can't beat Iran is an absurdity in the extreme. Uh, we put 1.2 million men on the ground and we will we will defeat Iran. We don't have the political will to do that. Um, and right now there's just no desire amongst the American people to to make that happen. And so what what Trump has to realize is that within his presidency, he lacks the capacity to defeat Iran. And so he has to deal with that reality, especially when the with the with the midterms coming up. You know, this isn't Franklin Roosevelt getting bombed in Pearl Harbor and saying, "Okay, begin to rebuild build our military so that by 1942, uh, I can land in uh, in Normandy in in North Africa." 43 we go into Italy. 44 we go into into Europe and we win the war by 45. That's not the case. This is Trump going I gotta have something on board by November. And so you can't win this war. And the problem with Trump is that he keeps falling to Pete Hex says trap. We've evacuated 15 bases in the region. We don't have any meaningful military power there at all. Uh the residual capacity that was there that we could fall back in on has been destroyed. is the fifth fleet. What was left of fifth fleet in Manama, Bahrain is is gone. The radars that were in place in Qatar are gone. In Kuwait, they're gone. There's nothing there. And yet, somebody convinced Donald Trump that uh he could launch in order to declare victory, he was going to launch a massive raid into the straight or moose to take not Car Island, but I think Sonac Island, one of these little islands off the off the coast. And we actually did the preparatory bombing the night the night before we hit that. Remember the wedding party that we hit? Yeah. That was supposed to be >> not. You don't. I wasn't. >> We America, man. >> No, no, [laughter] I had nothing to do with >> America. But well, I unfortunately I voted for him, so I have to take responsibility. >> You have to remind us of that by going. [laughter] >> Well, you know, I hold people accountable. Um, but somebody convinced him that in order to declare victory, he needed to launch a raid, occupy Iranian territory, be seen as occupying Iranian territory, and then withdraw or stay there and negotiate the straight horos opening or something. And so since we don't have any bases in the region, we assembled a a strike force in Jordan that was assembled there. It's a Marine battalion uh core with a special operations uh capability attached to it. Uh we have a Ford operating base in Iraq. They were getting ready to leave from the base to the Ford operating brace before launching the raid. Iran hit the assembled area with the most powerful missile in its arsenal. Um, and if you take a look at the explosion, it's uh you don't you just pray that we got enough advanced warning to get our troops out of the way because that took it out. That's the end. They destroyed most of our helicopters because this was a helicopter uh raid. The helicopters are gone. The other helicopters are being evacuated to Israel as we speak because they're at risk. We have nothing left to defend ourselves with. you know, the the the day before the Iranians fired like 36 38 missiles into Jordan. I think we responded with almost 140 uh patriots, all of our patriots. We cycled them through u which was the Iranian. That's what they did. They they fired their missiles in and said, "Cycle all your patriots. Now you got nothing." Boom. What it tells is that the Iranians are following everything. They know everything. There's nothing we can do that's going to take them by surprise. Trump needs to fire Pete Hex. Um and and maybe even prosecute him. I would uh and I would make a political show that this is a man who's a traitor. He lied to me. He's this is Pete Hex's fault and I'm going to give you his head for November. That's too politically risky, but it sure would be fun. But um but the the point is we can't win this war militarily. So now the best bet thing is to find a a negotiated settlement. I think Trump can still because the the key is that the Iranian uh speaker of the parliament made a visit to Iraq uh a week ago I believe a week or so ago and when he arrived he said something very interesting he said that we know the Americans are looking for a elegant face saving way out of this war and the fact that he's saying this means that Iran recognizes this and is like how can we help you have an elegant face- saving way um you know we don't know what uh you Ratcliffe did when he went to Moscow. There's a lot of speculation, but I I know this because I look at patterns. The day before he went there, the Secretary of Commerce came out and said, "The United States will support a robust civilian nuclear program in Iran." >> That's a strange statement to make out of the blue. President Trump saying, "I want to get rid of all their >> The United States will support a robust civilian nuclear power program in Iran." Radcliffe goes to Moscow. The next day, Russia signs a $2 billion agreement with the Iranians about the provision of Russian nuclear power in Iran where Russia will control the fuel cycle. And it's signed. And I'm looking at that in parallel as the United States inking a similar deal with the Saudis and what you've done here because you remember everybody's talking about on the nuclear uh you know they're worried about Iran having their nuclear program uncontrolled. The Saudis would go for nuclear weapons, the Turks go for nuclear weapons, everybody goes for nuclear weapons. And what appears happening is an elegant face-saving mechanism for Trump to say, "I solved the nuclear program that we now have created an NP nuclear non-prololiferation treaty leveling playing field." Um, so that's one thing. And then you have the blockade that isn't a blockade, but we call it a blockade. Um, and we, you know, but the Iranians and the Omanis have come up with an agreement on how to manage the strait and and get traffic flowing. Now, Trump screws it up by bombing and then the Iranian. But the point is, if Trump fires Hagith, just stops listening to him, stops this military escalation, comes back, takes a pause, takes a victory lap with the nuclear, distracts everybody with the nuclear, then turns to the straight and say, "Oh, by the way, the the blockade worked. Oil's flowing through like a champ. We're going home. I won the war. I won the peace. I'm the greatest thing in the world." And the Iranians will say, "Not a damn thing." Because that's an elegant face saving me. The Iranians don't need to speak. Scott Besson said they'd be isolated. But Peskin, Pzeskian, I can't say his name either. Pzeskian I think is his name. The president was just in Bishquek where he met with Putin Xi Modi. >> Uh and on September 12th he's going to be in New Delhi where he meets with everybody again. Um agreements are being signed, deals are being made. Iran is a player in the biggest economic form the world seen bigger than the G7 and [laughter] you know more important than the G20. So Iran's not isolated. So Iran I think is in a position to say as long as you get the hell out of here. We don't care what you say at home. We've already made our decision. We're we're committed to the East. We've pivoted to the East. We just want sanctions lifted so we can fully engage. I can't say this is going to happen because this is Donald Trump. But what I can say is that when I hear face saving elegant mechanism for withdrawal and I look at some of these pieces, I scratch my head and say, could this be? >> So I'm a little bit optimistic and you don't normally hear me being optimistic. >> No, it's encouraging. What do you think? Yeah, >> those in Washington and in Israel underestimated the possibility of retaliation of Iron. They underestimated the level of support uh Tehran got and get by Moscow and Beijing. Beijing is delivering, providing satellite information, satellite reconnaissance to hit American bases and factories around the Gulf States. And the Russians are delivering parts of missiles and drones and um and um long range um attack facilities. And this shows the war theater in Iran is part of a greater picture of the de the fight on the decline of the west and the upcoming multipolar world. This is one side and on the other hand it shows the iron war is a war on natural resources on the control of natural resources. like the attack on Venezuela was and the attack on the Nordstream pipeline wars and these wars in the Middle East and who controls the resources has um new securities for new loans. uh led by the banks. So financial capitalism can go on working because capitalism financial capitalism is in a deep crisis because the profit rates are falling for the last four to five decades. And so the capitalists got nervous at the background. So they need new resources to make the machine run. This is exactly what those people in Moscow are picking. No, Moscow is sitting on resources and want to have its own hand on those resources and Beijing needs resources and connectivities especially to Russia. So we have a great block and the message of this iron war is for all countries in the global south. It is possible to fight the United States and to stand up to the United States. And this is what the iron government shows indifference in opposition to the German government who surrenders under the interests of the United States. >> Yeah. The foreign policy foreign affairs which is a very mainstream conservative linked to the the um Council on Foreign Relations had a cover story in its last issue about the end of the US world basically and because they've lost in Iran. It was an incredible you saw the piece. I thought that was a very surprising piece to read in that public. The kind of things like you Patrick and you Scott and other guests on our show and other shows have been saying for a couple of years now or certainly since the war began in six months ago. This is the Suez crisis for the United States. This is what it says. But you we saw that piece. >> This war was a mistake. >> Yeah. >> It's a very expensive war >> and Americans are realizing and we're agreeing to that. That's the thing. It's really hurt Trump. One of the interesting things though is I don't think the Americans have I mean I think Americans are realizing that we can't be Iran that there's there's something going on that that that and and we're not we don't have what it takes and we don't want to have what it takes that because we don't understand it. We're like we're not we're not going to commit to this. Um >> but what they don't understand is what's happened globally. Um, for instance, with with Iran, when the Abraham Lincoln went off, we had to bring, I think, the George Washington in. There's no more carriers in the Pacific. The Pacific is the major theater. We don't have carrier battle group in the Pacific right now. Um, the other thing we don't have in the Pacific is air defense because we stripped all of our air defense to send to the Middle East and it was all destroyed and it's gone. There's no air defense for South Korea. There's no air defense for Japan. Um the Navy whose Aegis class uh uh destroyers and frigots are supposed to provide anti-bballistic with their SM3s. We're out of SN3s. We don't have those are the special anti-missile missiles that we have been cycling through. You know how bad it is when uh you know all a lot of our European uh agents were off the shore of Israel supporting the defense of Israel and the head of the European command said uh either pull them back or send me more but you can't be asking me to do these things with the Russians in the Arctic unless I have more ships. We don't have more ships there. We've reached a finite you know military capacity um today in Europe and this is another reason why Europe should just wake the hell up. We don't have air defense in Europe. We've got nothing in Europe. Again, I go to zero combat capacity in Europe. Zero meaningful combat capacity. Um, now and KBY just went to uh to to Europe. He's a deputy secretary of defense >> and he met with Rut [clears throat] secretary general of NATO and he's up there going, "Yeah, NATO 3.0 is a good thing." Well, explain to the American people what 3.0. means we leave, you own everything. Um, and he says because, you know, yeah, we'll have a residual stay behind, but we won't because we we're pulling them out anyways. Um, but you know, this is because we have to protect the Western Hemisphere and still deal with the Pacific. So, not only are we abandoning Europe, we just abandoned the Middle East. He just basically said, "We're out of the Middle East. We're going to leave Europe so we can defend the Western Hemisphere in the Pacific, but we've got nothing in the Pacific right now. And this is what you know, this is why we have no leverage with the Chinese on anything right now. Because the National Security Strategy document that was published in November of 2025 said that the key aspect of America's power projection, the Pacific was our ability to have conventional military overmatch with the Chinese. Meaning, we didn't have to go nuclear because we were just so supremely superior to the Chinese. It was overmatch and the Chinese understood it was overmatch and Chinese are looking at us today going you've got nothing. We have nothing, Joe. This is the sad thing. We have no military power in the Pacific. We have no military power in Europe. We have no military power in the Middle East. And we have we don't even have enough have enough military power to take Cuba today. We've got nothing. That's good given the US doesn't really have any enemies. They just made them up basically. I think this is a a sigh of relief for most of the world if the but you did say before that the US if it raised 1.2 million men in arms they could go into Iran and win that war and many many Americans would die obviously and there's no political will but you did say the capacity could be there how could they get 1.2 2 million men uh to Iran. >> Draft. >> A draft. Okay, that's a good answer. >> That's how we got it in World War II. We we we declared war. This would require declaration of war. >> Oh, that I haven't heard about that. >> Right. But I mean, because a draft without a declaration of war isn't going to happen, >> right? I see. >> But if the president United States went to Congress and because the American people are fundamentally the dumbest people in the world and he could make a case that Iran represents an existential threat. Their nuclear weapons are rebuilt as we speak under Pickax Mountain. >> We got to go. >> We got to go. We got to go in this. We have to destroy this regime. It's in the long-term ministers of the of America and the world. I'm asking Congress to declare war. They have declared war and I'm turning to the American people. We are mobilizing as a nation to write in. >> He wins a November election, too, doesn't he? Then >> he could, but he's not going to do that because this is Donald Trump and I don't think Congress will go for it. uh you know, but my my point is I I created a hypothetical just to make the point because there's a lot of people even though the American empire is in decline, it ain't over. And um if you tickle the beast, you know what I'm what I'm advising the world is let it happen naturally. Let it let let us go away peacefully and naturally. Uh and we will go away like the dust in the wind. But if you if you kick us, if you if you sting us, if you bite us, we're still pretty damn strong. We got a we got a we got a defense industry. If it got its act together, could punch out equipment like you wouldn't believe. We've got a nation full of fat, pudgy boys that don't know how to fight, but we could train them and get them in shape in a year and a half. But we could actually build a military capable of projecting power. And the one thing we do better than anybody in the world is logistics and command and control. and um and so you know we have the capacity for global operations. Um I don't think it's going to happen. I don't want it to happen. I'm just putting that out there to people who think that America is just all all bluff, no action. >> Um right now we Yes, we have zero military capacity because we have a military-industrial um MIC uh military-industrial what's the C complex >> complex. There it is. Complex. I was going to say committee. >> You must you must have a complex if you can't complex. Look, [laughter] I've been but the the mick Mickey Mack as Ray would call it. But um our good friend Ray McGovern. Hey Ray. Um miss you. But uh you know the the military-industrial complex is one of the most comp. We talk about Ukraine being corrupt. There's no corruption in the world like the corruption of the military-industrial complex in the United States. They have taken trillions of dollars of US taxpayers money over the past decades under the presumption that they were providing the American servicemen and women who put on the uniform the best weapon systems in the world capable of winning any war. And Iran just proved that the American people have been lied to. I mean, this is this is one of these cases where we don't take just generals and put them into jail. We have to take all of the CEOs, all of the executives and put them in jail. And we should be arresting half of Congress for allowing this to happen. the Lindsey Grahams who sit there and say how wonderful we are, how strong we are. He's part of the corruption. His whole stick was >> Yeah, he's dead now. The whole his whole stick was to create crises to justify increasing defense expenditure to buy weapons that don't work. You mean those ads that you see in the metro station at Pentagon uh from Loheed Martin and Boeing saying that they're giving these soldiers who getting off the train to go to work at the Pentagon, they give them the best equipment in the world. It's not true. >> It's not true at all. It's the worst equipment in the world. It's expensive and it doesn't work. >> Let's end with this. Um you mentioned Venezuela. I think Trump was fooled going into Iran thinking he could do the same thing. This was a from their point of view a great success. And I when I when this first happened, when they when they snatched Maduro and brought him to New York, I wrote a piece. I'm just saying what the Miami Herald had written, which was that Dulce Rodriguez either had something to do with it or just bowed out. She didn't want to get involved, let it happen, and that she was going to turn over the country to the US. Well, that's basically what happened. I don't know what happened that night with her role. We may never know that, but there's no question she is not defending Venezuela's revolution. And a lot of colleagues of mine uh criticized me heavily for writing that piece, but let's face it, they can't defend her anymore. And just this week, Chevron signed a $7 billion deal. Annie, the Italian oil company, also made a big deal now. And if you recall, Chevron at one time said to Trump, "Forget it. We're not going in there." And it made it look like, see, Trump's plan is not going to work. Well, seven billion. What's going on? Was Venezuela a lost cause in terms of the sovereignty of this country? Yeah, the CIA bought it. I mean, you you were 100% correct. The CIA bought her. They bought everybody. There's no way you could have Delta carry out that mission um without people standing down, people getting out of the way. Um and she was part of it. And there was there wasn't even a hiccup in we went from a nation that everybody said millions of people are going to go into the streets. the, you know, Maduro supporters will be out there, the militia, it'll be another Vietnam. Hell, I was saying that I was, there's no way. [laughter] Again, I'm not an expert on Venezuela, but just reading stuff, I I said there had there, you know, you talk about, you know, the boulevard, you talk about Chavez, you know, popular boulevard is a national symbol. Chavez was very popular. Maduro, yeah, maybe there's corruption and stuff, but they still seem to be popular amongst the masses. And so there's just there's no one I I there's not a single person that that said, "Yeah, my my crystal ball says that Delta is going to launch a nighttime raid um and grab Maduro and then Venezuela folds like a house of cards." Not a single Venezuelan expert out there made that prediction because it's it's unthinkable. But we went in the CIA the CIA's been operating Venezuela forever. Hell, that girl that won the Nobel Peace Prize is a CIA operative. Um they're all operatives. are all paid for the families that that they're but the CIA maintained connectivity and what the CIA is able to do is go in and buy the right people. Uh and and and part of the buying of the people was predicated on the the notion that oil wealth would return to Venezuela. And so what we're seeing here is that but I mean is oil wealth return to Venezuela? I think in this deal they get $19 a barrel. >> That's it. >> And that's it. And uh you know that that's only going to be seen by the elite. it'll not percolate down to the people. Um, so who knows what frustration may manifest it down the road, but uh you Venezuela is done as a sovereign state. Venezuela is 100% a United States colony uh today and it's governed as a colony by Marco Rubio. >> Cuba could be next. What do you think, Patrick? Well, you have the final word. Well, I visited Koopa for years and I know many people over there and I know that uh Havana is preparing for an underground war if the Americans want to get in and they will do the same thing that Phil did in the Sie Mesta. It's a very wild part of the country and if you have the support of the farmers we're living over there. It is impossible for an army to win this war and that's [clears throat] the problem. Uh that's why America or Washington didn't give the order to invade Kuba at the moment. And well it was very smart what they did from an American point of view in Venezuela. They bought the elites and provoked a regime change and then they had their hands on the oil. It will take years to restructure the oil production in Venezuela. But one of the main points from my point of view was to cut off the oil line from Venezuela to China, right? >> It it is another resource war. So we are now in the beginning from my point of view of a global neverending war that would produce a lot of chaos all over the map and in the end I'm sure that the multipolar world will win. I agree. So it would be the best deal to see the hedgeimon decline step by step in cooperating with the other nations which are upcoming nations but I think this is too optimistic I think so we will see a lot of senseless wars. On that note, we'll end this program and I thank Scott Ritter and Patrick Bob here in Basal, Switzerland. We're we're attending a conference and I thank the audience for watching and Kathy Voggan back in Sydney, our producer. I ask you to subscribe and to uh donate to our channel. And until next week, remember Sunday mornings now 9:00 am Eastern US time for the world this week. And for the show, I say goodbye. is Joe Lauria in Switzerland. >> All right, Peter. >> All right, thanks very much. [laughter] Get out your notebook. There's more. >> If [music] you are a consumer of independent news, then the first place you should be going to is consortium news. And please do try to support them when you can. It doesn't have its articles behind a payw wall. It's free for everyone. It's one of the best news sites out there. And it's been in the business of independent journalism and adversarial independent journalism for over two decades. I hope that with the public's continuing support of Consortium News, it will continue for a very long time to come. Thank you so much.