Episode 60: Are We Still Speaking the Same Language? | Truth, Words & the Catholic Mind

It's [music] been a long, long day. I got a lot to say. It feels like I'm carrying a [music] two-tonon weight. I go to see your friends. [music] Hello, I'm Mancenior Patrick Winslow >> and I am Father Matthew Calf >> and we are speaking from the rooftop, [music] >> a podcast brought to you by 10 books in which we [music] invite you to join our conversation out here in the open air >> where we look out upon the world around us from the rooftop of the church and share with you what we see. makes [music and singing] me want to scream [music] from rooftop. [music] >> Well, hi there. >> Hello. Good to see you. >> Likewise. [music] Likewise. Well, at least uh we were able to connect within a week and a half's time this time. >> Yeah, I think we're rather responsible. >> Yeah. You know, the other day I was um noting I don't know if it was in my head or if it was something around me, the fall spices in the air. And I think maybe somebody had a refreshener or something. But then it occurred to me, we're in September now. >> So, it's time uh it's time to transition to a new season. Although I was um rudely informed by my Alexa at home that the weather for most of this week was going to be high of 97 which would feel like 105. So I'm not really feeling the fall vibe yet. >> Yeah. >> Um although there were hints of something that was in the air. Although my mother keeps telling me that there's commercials for Christmas on whatever she was watching. U you know things about you know how many more days you have things of that nature. So it's getting a little out of control. Although I am fine with diving into a season when you're ready to dive out of the old one. >> Yeah, I agree with that. I I I think that for for us here at the seminary, you know, you you sort of make a transition when it's still summertime because we begin >> Yeah. >> July, >> your fall schedule begins in the fall schedule and then just feels like it drags on the dog days. We have this heat wave. It's [snorts] >> like, okay, we've been in we've been in school now for a month already. >> Brutal. >> So, anyway, but I get you. I am ready for the transition. >> I'm ready for the transition. So I don't know, you know, when you make it over there at the seminary when you start putting in a few a few indicators, but I imagine the sisters take care of that a little bit. >> Yeah, as far as the food goes, they do. I mean, we begin to transition from summer food to, you know, things that are a bit more brazy and and uh um long slow cooking, you know, which you just don't want to do in the summertime, but >> Oh, yeah. I know. And roasting, you know, >> roasting. Absolutely. roasting vegetables, which is where the world's set of flavors come from. >> You're still on that kick. >> All vegetation. That's where flavor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're not really starting with anything profound today. [laughter] >> Norally, this is the stuff we talk about before we go, but uh >> we're just flipping flipping it on its head today. >> Yes. Clearly, clearly that's what we're doing. Um, let's see if there's something that's been on my mind. Uh, language. >> Language has been on my mind. >> Um, >> yeah. You mentioned last time we had a podcast that whether or not you were talking about throwing out some kind of natural hope and the accomplishment of >> an attempt to accomplish something on a natural level to give yourself a little bit of traction. >> Yeah. as a spur obviously to the greater hopes that we have relative to to supernatural hope. Um, and you mentioned something in there about language like if you want to learn a language. So, it stuck in my head as I wonder if he's trying to learn a language. >> I won't tell. >> Okay. But that said, um you know, some of the languages that I've been uh exploring just a little bit to kind of get a feel about been eastern. Um and they're so different than western language. You know, the western language is almost mathematical. >> There's a type of mathematical precision and type of calculation. And I didn't even realize like for example the Spanish how how western even that is because I often would think about maybe German or English as being hyper precise and technical and logical. Well, in so far as languages are that um but but even something like Spanish comes off as being rather algebraic and mathematical in comparison to just some of these languages which are uh so spoken that you know the idea of the written formulation and almost mathematical constructs they're just kind of after the fact you know >> but the Well, but even more to the point, aside from just appreciating, you know, some of the facial differences or even maybe some of the internal differences and how language evolves and develops, um, I think most people don't really consider how important language is and all of the implications of language. Um, you know, we just simply use it, right? I mean, we we engage it. We presume it. Um, but so often we're foiled uh in in miscommunication or um having certain assumptions that are not shared or certain distinctions that are not shared. But it's not common because most of the concepts that we're banting about are pretty easily commonly shared. >> Sure. Uh but but you've had the experience and I've had the experience when you're dealing with another language, it carves out a slightly nuanced or different concept that isn't just it just isn't carved out in in English. >> Yes. And you in my experience in those few occasions, I particularly liked that new word because it it gave me something a a new reality, a new set of distinctions that had a word for it and really appreciated it. But all of that kind of brings to the four that in the use of language that we are in essence dividing up and making distinctions between concepts. um you know concepts of things, concepts of actions, concepts of time, concepts of thought and all of those concepts are predicated on the fact that we have an intellect that can actually make these distinctions that we can you know um we can abstract from the reality around us and develop these concepts itself. But I think most people don't ever really think of language beyond sort of the facial experience just beyond the face of it just the experience of it. Have I have I inspired any thoughts on your end? >> Oh for sure. I I love talking about language. Um and you know your father I remember he said one time in one of those you know jiu-jitsu >> Oh yes >> that he puts on for leadership things and whatever. Um I don't remember or whatever. He likes to think of himself as, you know, like a ninja black belt. >> That's right. But I I just recall him saying something that I thought was it stuck with me. It was quite profound and true, but it was a simple statement because people typically will complain when you do get people around the table at any institution and they will complain to the whoever's in charge of it. In this case, you I think you were in charge. was at the parish and um this particular event and people will say the same thing which is we have a problem of communication. >> Yep. >> And your father's um statement was that it's not that you're not communicating, you're always communicating. It's a question of what are you communicating >> and how well how well do you do >> communicating? So, I was thinking about it the other day because, you know, Italians, as you know, they they they can't really speak without gesture, >> but the gesture sort of emphasizes the thing that they are they're actually speaking. >> Yeah. >> To the point where the gesture oftentimes is more important than the word. and they have such a an elaborate uh everyone kind of knows about Italians, a very elaborate display of gesture. Um but and people laugh about it and they make fun of it and they think it's cute and beautiful or whatever, but it's it's not that it's not that elaborate. I mean, it's not as elaborate as sign language, right? And and the point that I was thinking about is that that while they're trying to push that word into someone by a kind of gesture, um it it itself is not terribly descriptive and it it lacks the kind of distinction that language often does, especially as a language grows over the course of time. M >> the um I'm reading the the Merchant of Venice right now, trying to fly my way through Shakespeare's plays and um yesterday I just I had just started yesterday and he uses a word which is one of the many many words that he made up um because they're in Venice and he speaks about someone being portly and we just hear that word and we think large, right? But he made it up. He made it up on the spot there. Yeah, >> think about a port that is receiving someone is rather large and and and uh round. Um he just made that into a descriptive word which is fantastic. Uh and he added so many words to the English result of that >> and as you said algebraic in so far as it's it's always making a further distinction adding a word to give a new nuance etc. And so Eric Varden, if you ever you ever read Eric Varden, Bishop Eric Varden, >> I think I I've read some things um from him. Yeah, >> he had a an article that I think I was reading to you and Gober in the car. We were going down to some place. Yeah. And it was too heavy of an article to read and I could tell Gober was not listening after 15 seconds. >> Um so I gave up. But the the point of the article was that the nice thing about learning different languages um especially something like the easterns um so far out of our our our our normal mode of communication is that each one of those words actually has a different kind of effect on you >> that you're trying to communicate something uh to someone else about a reality. Um the word choice is affecting them to some degree. uh even even unconsciously or emotionally. So he uses the example of of the word um woods woods or forest or Latin is is silva. >> How how different silva uh hits the ear and and and and the heart it sounds like something sort of mysterious and and enchanting. Whereas, if you just have, you know, a forest or there's lots of different words you could you could use to to describe it. And some of the ones he he pulled out were were some German ones. And of course, it just sounded like something I never want to see. Um but how even the asinance and the and the structure of it the shape of a word um yeah >> on the recipient >> there sort of a you know I think what you're getting to is that sounds have almost a natural connotation to them. >> Yeah. So that you could take, you know, I mean, you could take something beautiful like a rose and in German name it something like Kashak and you know [laughter] >> your German is exquisite. >> Thank you. Yeah, >> it is a rose in German though. >> Whatever. Um even say it worse though, >> right? It's kind of like, you know, why couldn't you just come up with something like rose or petal or just something that the sound matched the reality a little better? >> There have been studies on this on this on this issue about >> how um in languages certain sounds are always chosen over other sounds for negation or affirmation. So you you almost don't have to know the other language. You whether it's a yes or no, you can almost intuit it because the sound will come off negating or the sound will come off as affirming. And it's and it's not that you know what the words what they mean what that particular word means. Yes or no. You don't know the language. >> But the sound itself re is revealing because there's something universal to the human experience about which sounds lean in toward which meanings. Especially something as strong as negation and affirmation. >> You think that's only in in Western European? >> No. No. Um in fact I think this was McGillchrist. Uh it was either him or another one because I'm reading I was reading something else by another neurosurgeon. But um it was it was part of some of the neurological studies that was popping up either in the Gilchrist book or some other book that I had um about how the brain functions. And so uh they cited a study on on some of this >> and and it was clear it was it was clear. I mean it wasn't a perfect 100% that you could always know whether something was an affirmative or a negative. However, when given the two when given both which one is affirmative and which one is negative, it was statistical. It was statistically significant that people who didn't know the language could discern based on the sound. >> Interesting. >> That was affirming or negating. Yeah. So it was it was really interesting um in that sense. But I think uh I think that much of our our our conversation with culture uh really is caught up in not having a precise common language. I mean all right we're all speaking English. All right, we all live in, you know, at this time in this place here in the United States, you know, assuming that that's where everyone here is living and we have a lot in common. We can assume a lot. However, when you're getting into distinctions, whether they're theological or philosophical, um, or cultural debates that have at their core, um, significant but nuance distinctions, especially life issues. Um, and yet all we do is repeat the same words at each other when in fact they're not meaning the same thing to the other person who's hearing it. >> Yeah. >> Um, and and there are some important distinctions and understandings that have to kind of get to it, right? like just saying the word life, you know, we can, you know, scream up and down all we want on the sacredness of human life, but a person um who might be more pro-abortion would hear life and define life differently. Um, and you get into a lot of the the craziness of, well, how do you define life? Well, clearly it's not a bunch of cells attached to a woman. Clearly, it's not a fetus. Clearly, it's not that, right? So, how do you eventually get to define life? And then you end up with this convoluted, very personalized definition of what human life is. Well, that's great. No good. that is no good for us in society because the entire country is not going to live according to your definition of life. You know, we have to come up with some language. You know, at what point, you know, the foot of language, right? I mean [clears throat] ultimately what you're doing with with the language rather than a gesture um or a grunt is you are attempting to have a kind of communion with a person not by virtue of their particular >> universal universal. >> Yeah. >> So when we teach the boys about this like I asked them if they know what the word dog means. >> And of course they all say yes. And I said, "What dog are you thinking about?" But before I asked the question, they weren't necessarily thinking about a particular dog. They could, but I don't know those particular dogs. And so, how can I use a word that you understand and I understand even though my experiences of dogs are different >> different than yours? Yeah. >> Well, breaking out of your particularity into the universal is that is is the glorious thing about language where things can actually be shared >> and the power of the intellect. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, and that's the thing that I was kind of saying earlier. I mean, all of the implications of language, >> it kind of goes right down to the implications of, you know, the human soul and its intellective abilities. >> Um, you know, it's it's impressive. Very impressive. But even so, as impressive as it is, uh, it's amazing how we can just speak past each other. >> Absolutely. you know, and and it's and just assume that when we're trying to speak about something important, something that's worth taking time to really understand what the other person is saying that we just assume that we both know what the word life means. >> Yeah. And don't you think that that's it's in part an assumption, but it's also this is a matter of the will, right? that I don't in so many of our conversations I'm not attempting to receive from you. >> I'm just trying to impart something. >> That's right. >> Um and so to take the actual time that would be required and the kind of goodwill >> to say I actually want to know what's in your mind. And we have to unfortunately use this very clunky process by which I put sound vibrations in the air that can hit your ear. >> Yeah. >> It's in my mind into your mind. It's it's a very unhappy medium. It's unfilicitus in terms of its it's its its time requirement. It's it's its attempt at at at specification. It'd be great if I could just take my concept and not use. >> Yeah. It's kind of fascinating when when the young guys hear when we start talking about prayer and they I ask them about how do they hear the voice of God um because God doesn't need to use such >> un you know unefficient inefficient means um and you've had this experience we all have that where all of the sudden you just see something like you have you have that the concept is just ready made as a form and it's in your mind because he can speak like that if he wants to >> without something audible. >> Matter of fact, if it's audible exterior to you, you're probably just going crazy. [laughter] >> It's true. Extraordinary. Yeah, without doubt. I mean even in cases of demonic possession um there you know there there are those accounts where people are seeing things that other people aren't seeing >> you know and so there is this communication for lack of a better word. >> Yeah. >> But it's not happening through the senses. It's as though it's as though something is being inputed just beyond your eyes so that the brain sees it as though your eyes are seeing it. >> It's funny. >> It's actually not coming at all. >> One of the kids just one of the just asked me this question and you know Thomas has a for his day and age pretty interesting answer for it >> is just what you said basically that an angel or a demon can manifest in one of two ways. that they could use matter and shape it in such a way that you actually see it. >> Um, but the more common way is more likely the fact that they can just manipulate your the matter of your brain >> uh to to to have this image that's presented there that you read off of as a as a >> you see as though it were using your eyes. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Or in that case, as you were talking about, you know, here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, most cases, auditory hallucinations are, you know, signs of mental illness. >> How's how's it going for you? >> Well, to be determined. Yeah, my a I wish you were an auditory hallucination. [laughter] >> You take a pill and get rid of me. >> Oh my gosh, it'd be a lot easier. >> Yeah. >> So, um Yeah. So, but but rarest of occasions oftentimes with something like a visionary uh you know to our lady to to the blessed virgin Mary or something along those lines where you might have an what they call the alocution which um may or may not be auditory you know in the sense that their their brain is receiving a signal that sounds like a sound um or it could just be a communication but you know I've never really studied too much of the the different types of allocations and anything along those lines. But just noting that there is that possibility where >> you know where that can happen but again definitely not the norm very very very very rare and usually people where you know where they would have them authentically there is a larger context that would actually point to them being plausible. Yeah, >> like having visions of the blessed virgin Mary that ultimately turn out to be true, you know, >> like, okay, that's a larger context that says, >> you know, maybe you're not having auditory hallucination, maybe you're actually have an alleution, but short of those contexts, we generally don't don't see it. Um, you have to have really some sort of extraordinary context. Do you think that Yeah, going back to what you were saying earlier about um that principle of receptivity um and language you know St. Thomas has that that line that is so fundamental that that which is received is received according to the mode of the receiver. >> Words that I I can't I can't speak to you Chinese if you don't speak Chinese if I want you to receive it. >> It's be according to the mode of the receiver. >> So if we were to try to communicate with each other in such a way that I'm actually considering um the subject with whom I am speaking and we typically do that in rhetoric, right? We're trying to if we want something from someone, we try to put things in such a way that they would receive it well. Um or if we have to break bad news to someone or we've got to ask them to do a hard task, you we we tend to change our language to to fit the receiver. Um it's still sort of self- serving like it's something we want from them. Um yeah, if we were to engage in that kind of >> I guess it's just for lack of a better term the sense of the other person. Um, you know, I was thinking the other day about the fact that, you know, when our Lord was was recently one of the gospels for mass, he was he cast out de a demon and and the people asked him to stay, >> right? He says, I I've come I got to go preach, you know, to the other um cities and towns. And I thought to myself, I wonder why they wanted him to stay because some people just tell them to leave, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Right. we don't want to receive you. Unfortunately, he didn't. But I thought, what what would the experience be like um of being so absorbed in one who speaks with authority like he does, whose whose manner of voice, whose whose very visage, whose commanding presence actually lets you forget about yourself for a moment >> and you become so wildly receptive uh to just to that person. I don't I can't think of anyone with whom I really do that. >> No, >> I'm I'm constantly thinking about what my responses are going to be, how I'm being I don't think about how I'm being perceived per se, but um I'm as a priest because people are always asking you for your opinion. >> Yeah. >> Council and whatever else. I'm just running I'm running a a background. >> Well, you play a role >> dialogue in my respond. Yeah, you can't just respond crassly because that would be not fitting to the role that you play. >> But it doesn't sometimes it doesn't allow me to just >> say I I just want to see who you are, >> right? >> I want to forget about myself here. Uh and that can happen certainly when when you and I speak. I don't think we think about it ourselves. Um, I don't think about you either, but [laughter] >> we know I I think I was talking to you um uh not in a recorded session, but you know, I was just talking about being more authentic >> and certainly one of the challenges in the roles that we play, whether your role as a mom, your role as a dad, your role as a husband or a wife, your role as a priest, that in all of these roles we can in a certain sense begin to feel like we're acting and a small gap of authenticity and inauthenticity might begin to creep in and at that point uh you have to start asking yourself wait a minute am I now just being these things for other people and not really being myself. I think it's a you know then it's a little bit of negleing but I think it's an important aspect to keep track of all parts I mean everybody has a job they play a part at work they you know everyone plays a certain certain role in social groups to a certain degree but is there um alignment in congruence with who you are and how it's being manifested in the roles you play and because we grow personally and interiorly and in our own way, we can just go back to the roles that we played and never allow them to change with ourselves. That if we're growing, which pray God we are, if we're maturing, pray God we are, if we're learning, pray God we are, um are our are the roles that we play naturally keeping up? And if not, then there's going to be this gap and it will come off as inauthentic >> at least to yourself because you concede both. >> Maybe not to the outside world or you wonder why you don't feel like anyone really knows you, but because did you let them, you know, did did you allow them to begin to know you as you evolved? Maybe they did when did you give them access uh to get to know you better? Yeah, it's particular danger as a priest, right? Because we live such very public lives. >> And then then then a large part of your life is also extremely private. >> Yeah. >> Those two roads don't always converge. >> No, there's a lot of discernment and and and right. What are the pitfalls? The pitfalls is that you allow them to be so divergent that one has nothing to do with the other. >> Yep. Yep. you know, so your your preceding role is a job and then your personal life goes off to a tangent. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Or um the other extreme is you just are so yourself in your priesty life that you're actually offensive. You know, like [laughter] you're just offensive to a lot of people might like it and a lot of people might hate it and you're just going to push people away. It's like >> Yeah. And that's the same with anyone, right? You can't just be what you think is authentic and you're authentically a jerk. >> Yeah. Yeah. You you can't do that. >> Yeah. So, uh, it's a balancing act, but I do think that we should be a little more intentional, you know, to make sure that we get it balanced every now and then because I do think, um, what can happen? I certainly experienced in my own life where you you begin to wonder, you know, how much are how much of the role that I play is aligned well with how I'm growing internally, privately, in my own in my own walk, in my own path. Um, or am I kind of just stuck in a role that I put together in the first 10 years of my priesthood and not allowing it to mature with me? >> Sure. Sure. >> You know, because that's an easy thing to do, right? It's an easy thing. The other question is really like unlike God who understands and knows himself in the act of being unlike angels who >> you love dropping these existential >> well it's just because as I come down to get to >> let's let's begin with the the essence of God >> well then you go down to the angels right and they can know themselves. >> Yeah. >> How do you you know we say who when people ask the question who am I? I actually only know myself by reflecting on my acts. >> I can't look inward and see something. What do I see? I have a privileged access to my thought life, but my thought life is just my thought life. Does it make up who I am to some degree? Of course it does. But I don't enact all of my thoughts. >> Yeah. >> How do I know what I'm I I'm extended through time. Most of all of my acts I've forgotten now. I don't even know what I did or why I got to the point where now this is something I always do. Um, so I have to look at the things in the course of a day that I've actually done that were human acts >> and then I look back at that and say this is one of the things I do is kind of strange I suppose but I like would I be friends with me if I had the opportunity. [laughter] >> Yeah, I know how you feel. And I can only I can only answer the question by looking at the way I've behaved, >> right? >> I can't say I I think that I'm this or I feel like I'm this. No, I am what I've done. >> And what have I done? How did I respond? >> I would I come to me with a difficulty or a problem or whatever else and and how did I respond to the ones who did? That's that's what I am, >> you know? It's Yeah, it's true. And I would also I know that when you say how I act, I know it includes react as well. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um, you know, and I think that's where things have been surprising sometimes to me, where I've surprised myself where I'm learning something about myself is because I react differently. I may react to a situation or to a person uh or to something that I didn't really like, but now I react differently. >> It hits me differently. And I have an interest, an intrigue, um a different approach. And it's in that reaction that that I know involves, you know, my my intellect and my will. And I know that they're all working in a mix of it. But my my conscious awareness is kind of the last piece to fall. It's like I'm observing myself and how I reacted. >> Yeah. >> And and I'm I'm asking myself why why is that different? What what happened? Did I change? Was it circumstantial? Um, is there are there some nuances here about myself that I didn't really pick up on before where I always reacted this way strongly? >> X Y or Z and something and the way I heard it here I reacted differently. Yeah. >> Is it is it that I've changed or was something presented that was a bit, you know, more nuanced? Am I developing distinctions that I hadn't really thought of before as to why I don't react the same as I did before? Or am I changing? You know, is there something about me that's changing? And I think that that's uh probably when I've experienced it the most. Every now and then I've surprised myself with how I acted >> in a good way >> and a bad, >> you know, where I lost my patience and I raised my voice uh at someone. Now, it's not terribly common, but it can happen. And then after the fact, I I I look at myself, I'm like, that does it's not me, but I have to say, yeah, but it was, you know, that was >> why it was. So following those breadcrumbs from a reaction to say that is you on and why. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then as you say then I can also I can do an action that that's good and later on think that seemed out of character for me. Not that I would do a good thing but I normally wouldn't do that >> but I did. >> Where's that coming from? >> Yeah. I anyway I don't know how we got from language to you know um knowing oneself conscious awareness but it's a natural bridge it all goes it all goes back to you know who we are is >> indeed well I I want to hear more at some point about what your experience of um an eastern language is that's different um because I I I have zero contact with them. done nothing in the realm of oriental languages. >> Well, I should throw Greek in there, but it's not really. >> Well, let's let's not overstate the case. I just simply looked into them. It means little little little little in in terms of a practical reality. So, don't please don't [laughter] >> I'm not pressing you on. >> No, no, no. But I I find them interesting and and even in the the translation of um some eastern Asian writing, >> the con the concepts translated into English. You know, the language affects how we think, how we >> Oh, for sure it does. >> create relationships in our mind. >> Yeah. whether they're again more algebraic or are they more poetic? >> Have you ever heard John Woo? >> I don't know. >> He's a he's a many things, but he's an author. He's he's deceased now. He grew up in a small town in China. Um and became a Catholic and and his father was not, his parents were not, and a Carmelite and a real a real aesthetic mystic. Um he's got a book that I'm reading now called Beyond East and West >> and he's he's just talking about what it is to grow up from the vantage point of a a Chinese man in a very small fishing village with all that comes with that with Confucianism and Buddhism >> and then encountering um an entirely different world uh relative to to the faith. And it's a it's an interesting read. >> Well, I I'm interested. >> I think you would like it. Yeah. The delta of these two very very different worlds. >> Yeah. No, >> we saw as always happens with these things, you know, the seeds of the logos that were in his own little small fishing town >> allowed for him once he met Christ to see where Christ was there. >> So, >> yeah, there's a there's a high regard for natural wisdom in um you know, in in in Asian thinking and perspective. U almost a like sort of a filio surrender to it >> which I think is translated into their respect for um older people. >> Yeah. >> Because they have a great a great respect for the wisdom that can be gleaned by age. >> This is why you're falling into the eastern thing right now since you >> I am preparing ahead >> so they'll respect you. [laughter] It's not too far ahead, but I think we're there. >> No. Yeah, I know. >> But all right. >> Very good. Well, it's good to talk with you >> with everyone out there. And uh thanks to yet tan for putting up with us our starts and stops and and um and >> I think we already did our before we go. Anyway, >> we can we did in the beginning, but sure. >> All right. Well, are you drinking beer in the morning? >> No. You know, I've got this um sort of hydration packet that >> a vitamin C thing. >> I don't know. I just take whatever. I'm kind of spoiled. The sisters spoil me. Whatever they put on my desk to eat or drink or whatever this I got a whole tray full of vitamins I think that they give me. I don't know what it is. >> Gretchen gave up on me. >> Did she? >> Well, in a way, but you know, she's whipping up all sorts of witches bruise and [laughter] I don't know. stuff and whatever else. >> I never feel any different, but I just drink and eat what they what they >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It's their charism. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> It is. It is. So, um, did was that mine before you go or is that yours? >> That's mine. >> Oh, well, I called you out for drinking in the morning. I think that counts as mine, too. >> Okay, fair enough. [laughter] >> All right. Well, I kind of said mine before, which is >> Well, I mean, the next time we see each other, we're going to be into the fall mode. >> Yes. Yes. >> In one week, the weather's going to change. >> I'm gonna pull out my fall sense. Although Although I do not like the flavor of pumpkin, >> you you've made that manifest several times. some pumpkin yog if if that's a defect in the rest of you. I look forward to your glorified bodies where you can understand that it's not supposed to be something you enjoy. However, if it's a defect in mind, then I look forward to eventually being able to appreciate it. Not going to be on the side of eternity. >> You can guarantee that. >> I'm going to let it go. >> Very good. >> All right. [music] I got bigger to fry. >> Indeed. God bless you all. me. You [music and singing] want to scream from rooftop [music] to the screen. >> Thanks [music] for listening to this episode of From the Rooftop. >> For updates about new episodes, special [music] guests, and exclusive deals for From the Rooftop listeners, sign up at rooftopodcast.com. And remember, for more [music] great ways to deepen your faith, check out all the spiritual resources available at tanbooks.com. And we'll see you again next time from the rooftop. [singing and music]