Ep 45: Making location simpler - Panama’s georeferenced postcode system

[music] >> This is voicemail, the Universal Postal Union's podcast covering the wonderful world of mail. I'm your host, Ian Kerr. [music] We're joined in a moment by Mr. Omar Torres de Leon. He's Vice Minister of Commerce and Industry of the Republic of Panama, and we're going to talk about Panama's new addressing system. >> [music] >> Joining me on the line is Omar Torres de Leon. He's Vice Minister of Commerce and Industry of the Republic of Panama, and up until recently was Director General of Correos y Telegrafos de Panama, Cottel, the Panamanian postal operator. Omar, welcome. Let's start with a question we ask all of our guests on the UPU Voicemail podcast. What is your first memory of the post? >> Well, thank you very much. First, thank you very much, Ian, for having me here on the podcast and to the UPU crew that has been very kind to me during this journey with Correos y Telegrafos de Panama. So, yeah, well, my first memory, I'm going to be truly honest with you, is with my grandmother. I remember every Saturday morning we used to have una casilla, right? A place in the postal service that we go every Saturday morning. So, every Saturday morning and the weekend basically started with my grandmother doing some running some errands, and the first or second errand was to go to the postal service and make sure if there was [clears throat] something there to collect. So, this is my childhood I'm talking about. So, that is my first memory for sure. So, I was a user. I was a an early user. And in my family, as in every Panamanian family, or at least most of them, we were users of the postal service. So, that would be my first memory for sure. >> Can you tell us a little bit about your professional journey then to becoming CEO of Codel? And in that leadership role, what was what excited you the most about the organization's future and the opportunities that lie ahead for it? >> Well, I've been a consultant most of my professional life. So, and I and I had work in HR a lot. I had work in several I have been very lucky, to be honest. And in my professional career, and I had the luck of working in a lot of organizational restructurations. That is something very particular about my profile, that I would say you don't really study for that. That's something that just develops in your career. And once you've done one, then you get the second, and then you get the third, and it's something that that you become good at, not just for academic reasons and because of my background, but because there's something that organizations need. So, I've been a consultant most of my life, and I've worked in several uh restructurations and deep and profound, you know, transformational organizational transformation. And that was the case for Correos de Panama. We we really needed a transformation when this administration started. Of course, the position of director is that changes in every government. So, in July of 2024, when the current administration started, I was designated to be the director, the CEO, or the first person in charge of Codel, which is Correos y Telegrafos de Panama. It's a direction subscribed to the Ministerio de Gobierno. And I think the future looks good. Um when I first started my first assessment, it was a that it was an organization that needed a transformation. We knew that before we started, of course. Um, but it needed a deep transformation and that was a job and that was what it what we needed to do and and I think the future looks good. I think that that transformation is, of course, an ongoing process and it is not a short process. But we've been very lucky. We've had a lot of uh help from the UPU. We had lots of help from UPAEP, which is the the regional organization. And mostly, I would say in my experience, every country that we reach out for something and and every help we needed uh with our, you know, fellow Latin Americans and even with with with some other postal services that are not from Latin America, they were very kind to help. They were very open to share knowledge, to share possibilities, I would say. And that is something that is still happening. >> In Panama, you have a fairly well-developed physical addressing system, but Panama recently launched its national geo-referenced postcode system, which is a a major step in modernizing the the nation's addressing infrastructure. So, as commerce and digital services and logistics continue to evolve, what inspired this initiative and what challenges was it designed to address for citizens or or citizens, business and and and even postal operators across the country? >> Well, there was a lot of challenges. I would say the first challenge is that we were doing it in 2026, which is a little late to the party, but again, we received lots of help. Uh the UPU was key for us and a team of consultants of the UPU was really key and it was a big driver for us to make it happen. So, you mentioned that we have a fairly well-organized way of of naming the streets. We do have that. But, only in the urban area. And of course, we needed to provide technology and we needed to provide a way to cover the whole country. And to cover the whole country, we needed a better way to define how are we going to locate each other. So, our strategy was very simple. We wanted to provide a technology for every Panamanian that was easy to use, easy to access, easy to share, that is very important, and optimized to make sure that this was not going to be something just to have. This was designed to be something to use, to be embedded in our culture, and to be and to make sure that it was alive, and it was useful, and it was in our real life. And that also, and this is part of the challenge, and that is also one of the best we did. That's one of the things we did to reborn our postal service. To make sure that every step we give, every strategic position we take, and every project we develop, it was put on the user. It was taking the user first. So, we developed a strategy and we took the decision to make it geolocated for several reasons. The first one for sure is, again, because it's made in 2026. And second, because real life happened. Because we didn't have postal codes, it didn't mean that we do not have e-commerce. It didn't mean that we do not have last-mile operations. So, people, again, the economy it's evolving, and people is even if we have postal codes or not, last-mile operations were happening, e-commerce was happening. So, we have to make sure that we were going to make it easier, not that we were going to make it harder, or that we were going to provide a technology that is not going to be flowing with what's already happening. So, we took the decision to make it geolocated and I have to mention that INEC, I N E C in Spanish for Instituto Nacional de Estadística y Censo, which is the National Institute for Statistics and Census, they had maps and they had some technology that we could use and they were so nice to share it with us and to collaborate with us to make it happen. So, two elements. First, geolocated is because this technology it was designed to be included in what was already happening and to make sure that it was an upgrade to what was already happening. And second, because we had the opportunity. So, we had the chance because of what INEC was already doing. So, I think that's it. It's because it was a seized opportunity with what the government already had and optimized to make sure that this was going to make life life easier to what was already happening. >> So, tell us a little bit about the actual system itself. How the georeferenced postcode system works and maybe what makes it different from some of the other postcode or postal code systems that are used in other parts of the world. Obviously, you've mentioned it's 2026. Anyway, [laughter] that's our first year. Tell us a little bit about how it works and then what it's what its unique features are. >> There are some unique features. The first feature and very important for us, especially for starters and for a kickoff of the system, again, this is not new technology or this has this are not postal codes are not new ideas. So, we had to make it in a way that even being something not really new, the technology and the on the way that it was going to be used and that it was designed for, it was flowing with what already happening in real life, right? In the practice. So, it is not very unique. I wouldn't say it's absolutely new. I would say it's a collage of ideas that was already out there in different countries. And most of all, it was designed to make sure that every point it's easy to locate. I wouldn't say there's something unique about it, but I would say it's very well designed for what is unique about Panama, which is how houses are in Panama, how buildings are in Panama, how buildings are in not just in the urban area, but in the in in the country area, in the special zones we have, in the delivery methods we have, in the culture we have. Again, I wouldn't say it's unique. I would say it's uniquely designed for us. >> You've mentioned there about the diversity of addresses >> Right. >> that you have. Um it might be diversity of geographies as well, all kinds of things like that. So, it it's a a system or a project that's has nationwide coverage. So, how did you approach that challenge of designing a system that will be able to support users across the entire country? And do you see any long-term benefits from the project as well? >> Well, I see short-term benefits immediately. And in the long-term, I'm going to be truly honest with you. In the in the long-term, I have high hopes and I have high expectations of what it can happen. Again, this is an infrastructure that as a country we started using in 2026 when e-commerce is not something new. And and we're not discovering e-commerce and we're not discovering last-mile operations. We are basically making them easier. But in the long-term, I think and one of my visions about it is that in the long-term it is going to be very embedded in our culture. It's going to be more in our language, you know, in our in the way we dialogue as Panamanians, it's going to be easier to find each other. Which was always the idea. How do we answer the question, "Where do I send you this?" Or, "Where do you want to receive this?" So, that question, I believe in the future, will be answered in a shorter way. We have a lot of I would say very Panamanian ways to answer those kind of questions. And now we're looking for a much more easier way and for a much more, I would say, normalized way to have those dialogues. So, I believe in the future, I see Panama more connected, easier to connect. I would say more included in the e-commerce. Big platforms are already using postal codes for delivering and, you know, all of that. And I definitely do not see this as the last version of it. I would say this is the first version. This was the kickoff. It was it was fairly well done, but as every technology, it is needed for it to be evolving and for it to be changing with what's happening in real life. >> It's easy for us in the postal sector to think about an address purely being something that we in the postal sector need. We need an address to deliver a letter or a parcel. But we we we're quickly disabused of that notion, aren't we, when we see that governments use it, emergency services use it, e-commerce relies upon the addressing systems. So, how do you see this new geo-reference postcode system supporting all those different sectors that rely on addresses? >> Oh, in a lot of ways. In a lot of ways. You mentioned before that we have a fairly well developed way of urban names and and street names. But the truth is that just works for a small part of the country. So, across the country, we have problems with directions. And there there's been a lot of I would say there's been a lot of intentions and notions to try to change that and notions to try to change that. And this is another one of them. Again, something I've said a lot of times and I will never get tired of saying it is that our direction in the globe, you guys in the UP knows this very well, has two elements, a text street 95 93 a text and then numbers. And in different parts of the world the numbers say or the numbers represent an area and the text a a particular way to find that area or vice versa in another countries the text is just to narrow an area and then the code it's to particularly find a point. It It It works in different ways in different parts of the world. Again, since we did it in 2026, we tried to make it in the shorter and most efficient way possible. So, the number will take you to a point particular. But again, we need to now and and something that we're working on in Panama is to develop a law, a new law of how are we going to locate each other now considering that we have postal codes that are geo-referenced. This brings me a little bit back to your previous question. This is already involved. This is already being part of what's happening in our country and I think that has a lot of different implications. Lots of it. You mentioned health, you mentioned distribution in general for the government. So, I think that in the future and and maybe in the short future, I mean in the in the near coming future, I would say that a geolocated system for Panama is just very beneficial and naturally it will be getting into the way we answer to the most simple question, which is where are you right now or or where should I send you this or or where should I go pick it up? Or where should I go drop it off? So, in any way, in any matter that that question needed to be answered needs to be answered, the postal code, when it's geo-referenced, it is a good answer to that. >> You mentioned a number of times it's evolving when in the early stages of this and there's a lot of learning as to how people use the the the address. >> [gasps] >> What would you say are some of the lessons so far that would be valuable for other posts who are looking to strengthen, whether it's digital identification and geolocation of delivery points, or knowing where citizens are and those sorts of things. Are there Are there any sort of early lessons that you think would benefit other posts? >> Integration, integration, integration. That that is it. You have to make sure, and that is something I know the current postal director is working on, you have to make sure that for every platform available, this is an easy technology to access and to integrate to your technology and to your project. So, as this is, I would say, property, maybe that is the right word, I'm not sure if I'm using the right law term, but it's property of of a responsibility of the postal service, it is actually something, a technology that you put out there so people use it. So, a failure would be if people if if nobody wants to integrate with that. That would be a failure. If you make it easy to integrate and and if you make it easy for, I would say, I'm just going to drop a a a possibility. If an ambulance service, for example, that is developing an app, I'm just saying something out loud, I'm I'm crazy idea out loud, that is developing an app that will track you and you click a button and an ambulance will be there, this technology should be available for that, right? Should be available for that to happen, to be integrated in those kind of projects. So, I believe the success of this is very attached to how easy it is to access this and how easy it is to use it, I would say as a clickable technology for people and for and for people that does projects, for people that does apps, for people that does everything that has to do or anything that has to do with somebody locating something. That is it. If you are somebody who's trying to make sure who's trying to to do a project or to do a development and technology or application that is somebody trying to find a place, the postal codes when I geo-reference are very useful to that. >> Let's go back to something you mentioned earlier which was about transformations and dealing with change and how a lot of your professional career has involved people and teams and transformation. What you were talking about here is a big transformation, especially for for your a postie and you've been delivering for 30 years and you've always delivered and you've been able to interpret those addresses and you know everybody is, here's a new system. So, how do you prepare teams and how do you bring people along whether it's everybody from the postie at the front line who's actually doing the work through to stakeholders or ministers or whoever it might be, how do you get everybody on side with a new development like this? >> Well, that's one of the biggest challenge of throwing out new technology, not just postal codes, but that's just one of the biggest challenge of any innovation technology in the world. I am aware that the person that is being the director right now is very focused on make sure that the postal codes are the new way of postal codes in Panama. He's making sure that he can make contact and influence a lot of institutions so they use it now as the official way of again, answering the question, where do I send you this or where do I drop this off? So, a lot of integration with what is already happening in Panama with what is already our culture and our last mile operations. >> So, that sounds like a continuing transformation and it's a really important thing. >> Yeah, it's a lot. >> In this age, especially when we're talking about things like cross-border e-commerce, making enabling that through to the local services that you just mentioned. Omar Torrijos de León, Vice Minister of Commerce and Industry for the Republic of Panama. Thank you very much for joining us on the UPU voicemail [music] podcast today. >> Thank you, Ian, for having me. And thank you to the UPU team for being so nice to us and for being such [music] a strategic partner for this project to happen. >> [music] >> You've been listening to Voice Mail, the official podcast of the Universal Postal Union. Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcast platform and you get each episode downloaded to the device of your choosing [music] as it's released. My thanks to the team at the UPU for their help putting together this episode. I'm your host, Ian Kerr, and I look forward to [music] your company next time on Voice Mail, the podcast of the UPU.